May 30, 2025 • 43 mins
Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin after the Knicks extended their series against the Pacers following a game 5 win and JMac explains why he thinks New York can still win the series after trailing 3-1. He strongly defends Eagles quarterback Jalen Hurts from recent criticism and makes the case that Hurts is firmly in the top 5 in the league and belongs in the same conversation as the reigning MVP Josh Allen. Plus, NBA analyst Rachel Nichols joins the show in studio to tell Jason what makes the Thunder so special during their dominant run to the NBA Finals
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio and noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Hello, and welcome to the Herd. A beautiful Friday because
the Knicks one last night. Baby, It's me.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Jason McIntyre in on a Friday for traveling Colin Cowherd.
He's I don't know if I can say parts unknown.
I think he's gonna be posting on IG later. I'm
joined by Alex Curry. Alex, not only do we have
a great Thursday with the Knicks winning, Hey, we have
a Yankees Dodgers this weekend.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
It's I love when you get a fit slave of games.
But you're the first person I thought about last night.
I was like, what an awesome Friday show. It's gonna
be j Knicks fight to live and see another day.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I was listen.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I gotta say I'm excited. I'm going to a Yankees
Dodgers game. This we have my first one was able
to secure some tickets. I can't really say. I don't
need everybody coming up.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
To me at the game. Let them know where you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
By the way, I went to a Kendrick Lamar concert
good last weekend with the Fam, and there were some
Herd fans who were like J Mack yeah, And I.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Was like, well, love Kelly, he's a family friend.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You obviously are close.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I won't reveal that stuff, but anyways, life is good
out here in La.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Life is good if you're a Knicks fan. Folks. We
have a series once again. Knicks get the win.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
At home at the Garden last night, pretty convincing, wire
to wire. I don't want to overreact, but I think
they're actually back in the series. Okay, they dominated last night.
I don't think there was one tense moment in the
second half. I don't even know if it got to
single digits. I know there's gonna be a lot of
basic analysis out there today. Hey, the Pacers didn't really try.
(01:55):
They had Game six at home, so you could see
they were lethargic. You have to watch the game closely guys,
and the Knicks actually made some adjustments. Tom Thibodeau, thank
you for making changes. I mean it's the small things,
like Tyrese Haliburton had an awful game, and we'll get
to him later, but it wasn't just he played poorly
or he wasn't locked in. The Knicks made adjustments. Again,
(02:17):
it's a small thing, but they picked him up full court.
You know, as a guy who plays in men's leagues,
you got to pick up full court point guards hate
that Tyrese Haliburton struggled against the full court pressure, only
ended up taking seven shots. And the Knicks defense was
so good for the first time in the entire series. Guys,
the Knicks won the turnover battle. Yes, they forced the
(02:38):
Pacers into more turnovers than the Knicks committed, and it
really helped the Knicks offense. Obviously, Jalen Brunson was phenomenal,
Karl Anthony Towns was excellent, and listen, I think this
is series back on. A lot of people are saying, oh,
the Pacers got it. I was mildly surprised to see
the Pacers are three and a half point favorites for
Game six Saturday night. But the biggest change I saw
(03:01):
was Jalen Brunson defensively. Jalen Brunton heard all your criticisms,
heard all your Oh Haliburton's better, now, yeah he's better.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
No, no, let's just take a deep breath.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
That was one game. Jalen Brunson was locked in defensively.
Here he is after the game talking about the dub.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
I mean I brashingassed the wall and so I wasn't
thinking I need to play better than him.
Speaker 7 (03:23):
I was just thinking I need to help my team win.
Speaker 8 (03:25):
And I'm just on minds every time went the court,
just helping my team.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
One, folks, I got a mind blowing sat for you.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
So in games one through four, the Pacers picked on
Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Literally give me him, I want him in the pick
and roll, and they attacked him.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
According to some stats, the Pacers were sixty eight percent
from the field sixty eight percent when Brunson was the
primary defender in games one through four. So what happened
in Game five? Brunson fighting through screens, locked in, getting down.
Pacers shot three for fourteen with Brunson as the primary defender.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
That's twenty one percent for you, math majors. Out there.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Just a fit nominal performance at both ends from Brunson
offensively carried him. Carl Anthony Town's obviously was excellent, and
specifically Brunson went at Halliburton. I don't know if you
guys noticed. They started attacking Halliburton in the pick and
roll and Halliburton struggled coming off a one of the
games that were they're calling it one of the best
performances ever where Halliburton at thirty fifteen and ten with
(04:23):
no turnovers, Haliburton had eight points and you know, we'll
go after him later.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
We'll take some jabs at Haliburton later on.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
But here he is after the game talking about his
lack of intensity and the Pacers kind of getting rolled.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
We're a resilient group, you know.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
We we always want to respond with things don't go well.
You know, after a game like that, we understand what
the stakes are and we understand the conversation. Well, it
will be around our group, but you know, we're we're fine.
We're fine. There's no need to panic, right thing.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
We're fine.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
We'll see a lot of people already like the Pacers
to win Game six.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I told you the spreads three and a half I
do want to point out two things.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Number One, for the first time this year or last year,
the pressure is on Indiana. Okay, last year the Knicks
got injured in the series despite being.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Up three to two.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Now the Pacers pressures on them, folks, and they have
not felt this pressure before. They've got to win this game.
You don't want to have to go back to the garden.
And for those that are saying, oh, trust me, Jay,
Pacers weren't locked in. They didn't care. They were going
home for Game six. Look at the last round. Okay,
they had to go back to Cleveland on the road
Game five, and they smashed the Calves in a let's
(05:34):
end the series. So I don't want to hear this.
They didn't lay down, or they laid down because they
had Game six. And the other point is, so nine
years ago this weekend, I moved my family across the
country for this job here at Fox.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It's been fun or having a blast.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
But something else happened nine years ago this week, and
that was Golden State lead trailing. Ok see three to one.
You remember, Okay, he was up three to one. They
go to Golden State for Game.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Five, they lose.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
It was similar not quite wire to wire, but Golden
State controlled that game. So then they had Game six
in OKC. All right, do you guys remember this game
nine years ago? Klay Thompson special hit eleven threes forty
one points and the Warriors erased the three to one
deficit end up winning in seven. My question to the Knicks,
(06:23):
who is Klay Thompson Saturday night in Indiana? Somebody's got
to blow up? We know what brunts is gonna get his?
Is it gonna be Bridges? Is it gonna be Karl
Anthony towns og Nnobi?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Are you gonna be the guy that shows up? Someone
has to erupt. They're gonna need a.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Volcanic performance from someone to take down the pacer Saturday.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I like the Knicks in that one.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
All right, let's shift topics and go to my favorite
team in the NBA, the Oklahoma City Thunder. Yes, I know, Jay,
you've been banging on them all season. You've been calling
SGA the free throw Merchant? Can you put some respect
on Okac's name? Well, but first I've got to give
a quick shout out to a former NBA player who
(07:05):
I thought I saw one of the hottest takes I've
seen on OKC, and that's courtesy of Jeff t former
Indiana Pacers point guard who played in Minnesota and a
couple other stops. He has a podcast, and he went
on raving about SGA in the mid range and get this,
saving the NBA.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
I think SBA saved the NBA. Oh, this is what
I'm saying. I'm not saying because of how I perform,
but the way he play. He saved the NBA because
the NBA is a copycat lead and he perfected the
mill range game, right, so he brought back the ability
to better shoot meriraane shots. I got crucified in Minnesota
for just wanting to shoot a mall range shot if
(07:44):
it wasn't a three or ear layer for analytics, and
him being the MVP and his go to shot is
a mill range shot.
Speaker 7 (07:51):
He literally just saved the NBA.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
All right, listen, I gotta give my guy's credit here.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
A couple of producers sent me that yesterday.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I was like, Damn, that's a good I don't think
it's complete and I'm not gonna give Tigue all the credit.
I think it's a phenomenal take. I don't think he's
totally accurate, and let me tell you why. Yes, SGA
is killing in the mid range. He's totally dominant. I
saw some stats where he's shooting over fifty percent in
the mid range.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Now he's not quite saving the league.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
I saw some stats Michael Jordan attempted like twelve hundred
or mid range shots or whatever it was in the nineties.
SGA's only like around four hundred. So it's not quite
what it was with MJ and even Kobe. But the
reason they can do the mid range with SGA is
because they play phenomenal defense. They're number one in defensive
(08:41):
efficiency in the league by a mile. They're calling this
one of the best defensive teams in her generation. Well, guys,
if you can get stops and they can no denying it,
of course you can trade twos for threes. It's not
that big a deal.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
You can't not play defense and then spam threes and
expect to win every game because you're gonna go cold
from three. I did look this up. The two best
three point shooting teams this year were Boston and Cleveland.
Guess what happened to them in the playoffs. Boston shot
sixty threes in a game they went cold from three
against the next it happens.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And we all know what happened to Cleveland. They got
out shot from three.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I believe in every game against Talliburton, and all of
a sudden, you go cold from three, you don't have
a CounterPunch. So OKASE has won in the mid range game. Now,
an amazing stat for OKC is they're three point shooting
way down.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
You're not gonna believe this.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
So sixteen teams in the playoffs, OKAC is thirteenth in
three point shooting. Ordinarily that's a death. Now OKAC has
been out shot from three in ten of sixteen playoff games.
Usually that's like, oh, they're getting bounced. But because of
the defense and the mid range game, they're able to
completely blow teams out. But we don't see this a
(09:57):
lot because nobody's playing defense in the league anymore. You
guys know, I love the hey zig when everybody'sagging. So
right now, in the NBA, the analytics say, spam threes,
fire away. It's a math equation. And we've seen this before, right, So,
Billy Bean and moneyball in baseball, okay, hey, we can't
compete with the big spenders. So we've got to find
(10:19):
obscure stats that matter and kind of build our line
up that way. And they did that with the Oakland
A's and they had a lot of success. Another analogy,
so YouTube comes out and all their videos are horizontal
because hey, we want to look like TV. So what
does TikTok do? Hey, let's do vertical for the phone.
So TikTok goes totally different at Boom, TikTok goes to
(10:41):
the moon. Well, guess who starts copying TikTok, YouTube shorts,
Instagram reels.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Now all verdio videos are vertical.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
So will we see like Jeff tgue is saying, everybody
copy OKC and go to the mid rage. Well, I'm
sure the Minnesota Timberwolves Anthony Edwards who led the league
in threes and only got layups and dunks, is he
gonna pivot and say I gotta work on a mid
range or all these NBA trainers who were helping everybody
work on threes. So are they gonna say we got
(11:09):
to get back to the mid range. I don't necessarily
think that's gonna happen. I do think there is the
world where other teams can copy. But you gotta play
good defense, like the Cabs would make a lot of
sense to play.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
They play great defense with Mobile and Allen. But are
they gonna say, Donovan Mitchell, let's get to the mid range.
I don't know that that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
So while I like the take, I don't think this
whole saving the NBA is as one hundred percent spot on.
I do think Okayc's gonna be favored, obviously heavily against
the Pacers or Knicks. But I would wrap up by saying,
we saw Okac stop Anthony Edwards fairly easily, and you
looked at it and you're like, why didn't the Lakers
(11:50):
try that.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Let's just put up a picket fence right at the
foul line, say you're.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Not getting to the lane. We're not gonna let it happen.
And he couldn't do that, and Minnesota couldn't make any threes.
So are we gonna see the Pacers or Nick say, hey, SGA,
we're gonna wall off the pain. No more minis for you, buddy.
Let's see what Jalen Williams, Je Dubb and Louke Dort.
Let's see what those guys can do from three, because
oh look, the analytics say they're not hitting threes in
(12:15):
the playoffs, and I think that's what we're gonna see
in the finals.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And I don't think.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Okay, so he's gonna waltz over the Knicks or Pacers,
whoever it may be. But SGA certainly is making people
think and the hot takes are flying about saving the NBA. So, Alex,
we got a game six Saturday night. I know you're excited.
I know I'm fired up.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I gotta be honest, like I was all in on
the Knicks after they kind of blew through Boston and
then the start of this series, I was like, okay,
maybe that Boston series was their finals and they just
kind of blew it out. But what impressed me most
about last night was listening to Carl Anthony Towns on
his postgame interview with Shaq and Charles, and they were
(12:56):
asking him, you know, like, what's the conversation you guys
are having, like on the plane, not in front of everybody,
and he goes, why not us like that one game
at a time, Why can't we do it? Why can't
we be the team that does it? And you kind
of saw that attitude last night. Yeah, of they played
desperate and it worked. They outplayed the Pacers in every
(13:18):
part of the game totally. If they can do that
and win Game six in Indie tomorrow, anything is possible
in the games.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I'm gonna I'm gonna call joshing.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Is possible in a game seven.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
But they all have to show up, like Carl Anthony
talents has to show up.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
No more dumb fouls. Let's dive back to you. Did
you hear him call him out? They called him out
on that last night?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Ye. Stan Van Gundy during the broadcast was it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think the next got a shot.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
They said, I'm betting them yet.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
But I think they got like after last night, Like.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So you're sayer chance that little dub and dumber all right?
Coming up next, Jalen Hurts. Can you believe he's getting crushed?
I can't believe it. They're saying he's the biggest weakness
on the Eagles. Let me just say I totally disagree.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I'll tell you that next here on the Herd.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in newon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
App back here on the Herd, got Rachel Nichols coming
up to talk about the Knicks.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Probably we'll get into the free throw merchant as well. Listen.
I gotta say, if you guys watch the show yesterday, you.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Know, Coward and I went at it. I think it
was a twelve round that felt like, you know, Foreman
Tyson or Foreman Holyfield. Sorry regarding Jalen Hurts, Okay, now
I did. Before I moved out here to LA I
did live outside of Philly, but I don't really have
a super connection to the city. It was a suburban life.
But I like the Eagles that I pay attention to them,
(14:44):
and for some reason, the bashing of Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It's just getting under my skin. Okay. I like, you know,
I like to defend underdogs.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
I like to defend guys who I think are really
good that maybe the market is not up to speed
on and this pro football focus on website I go
to helps a lot the gambling. They said that the
biggest weakness on the defending Super Bowl champion was wait
for it, the Super Bowl MVP. They said it was
the passing game that was the weakness of the Eagles.
(15:13):
So you know, it's not that hard to look up
some SATs on the Pro Football Focused website, and you know,
let me give you some SATs here.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
This is the Super Bowl MVP last year. Passing, which
is the biggest weakness from the pocket.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Here's Jalen Hurts, you know, second in completion percentage, third
in yards per passing yards per game, and then passer
rating fifth.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I think that should be yards per attempt. But bottom
line is, it's not like this is a dink and
dunk offense.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Jalen Hurts can beat you anyway deep down the field,
over the middle, scrambling. The best running quarterback in the league. Sorry,
Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts are better.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
He's got the Turst push, which is automatic. I don't
get the.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Bashing of Jalen Hurts, and I think it all comes
down to him being drafted in the second round, which,
oh man, he's not a first round pick. Stupid and goofy.
And then there's the whole saga that happened in Alabama
where he gets bench to the national championship replaced by
Tua Tua goes on. I mean, that's like, that's historic stuff.
You never see that, and he had to transfer. But
(16:15):
all Jalen Hurts is done is overcome everything. His height,
the benching at Alabama, Remember, he didn't come in as
the starter in Philly. He had to win that job.
He had a awful and I'm talking. I think they
lost their first playoff game with thirty one nothing. People
wanted to bench him at halftime. I think me included.
(16:36):
All he's done is overcome everything. And now he's the
Super Bowl MVP, and they're still disrespecting him. Philadelphia catered
the offense to Jalen Hurts and it's working. And oh no, no,
the rosters stacked. What do we play that game with
Joe Burrow? Hey man, Joe Burrow's got the best wide
receiver duo in the league. Probably Higgins and Chase are
(16:59):
historically a great wide receiver. Cobo got to be top
five six all time. I don't know if it's Rice
and Taylor, but it's certainly up there. Okay, we don't
play this game with Patrick Mahones. Well, he has a
generational tight end in Travis Kelcey and one of the
top five coaches, top three coaches in NFL history. We
don't do that Lamar Jackson gets Derrick Henry a first
(17:19):
ballot Hall of Fame Locke, and we make excuses for Lamar,
we don't bash it. So anyways, Shady McCoy was on
the facility yesterday. Shady a former Eagles player who I know,
great guy, Shady.
Speaker 7 (17:31):
I like him.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Here's what he said defended Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
AJ told me, well, players tell me that the offense
is really the offense, and CoA point corner is you
come over here to fit the Jalen Hurts offense.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So think about this.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
We know that the top four guys are Mahomes, Josh
Allen's a rating MVP, Lamar's got two mvvs at Joe
Burrow went to a super Bowl. That's the consensus top four.
I don't see why this isn't a consensus top five.
It doesn't make sense. Jalen Hurts has to be fifth.
You can make a case for Stafford, but he hasn't
been to the Super Bowl twice. Okay, he hasn't. And
(18:10):
that's what Hurts has done on a short time span.
People want to push Jayden Daniels in there. I'm like, guys,
one year, one season, like he was historically great. Let's
see him do it again, because we saw CJ. Stroud
have a great rookie year and then kind of fell
off a cliff. It took sixty three sacks last year. Yes,
Hurts has a loaded roster, great offensive line, great.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Running back to good receivers. But you know who else
had it pretty damn good. The second best quarterback in
NFL history, Joe Montana.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
It's funny if Joe Montana were playing now, would he
be in the hurt spot? Well, you know, he's got
Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice and Roger Craig. I don't know,
he's got a stack deck. Maybe he's not in that group.
Like the NFL discussion is just lazy and silly. Jalen
(18:58):
Hurts has proven he can win from the pocket. And
I'm sure there's some people at home saying, oh, well,
one year winning from the pocket. Now we've done the homework, guys,
let's get on the screen. In the last three years,
Jalen Hurts from the pocket? Oh would you look at that?
Three years, three different offensive coordinators. Twenty twenty three, they regressed.
(19:20):
The offensive coordinator was a nightmare, and he threw a
bunch of more picks. But that's three successful years for
Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
What more does he have to do?
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Can he do any more to prove that he belongs?
And I'm sure what you're saying, oh, Jason stack roster.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You know I happen to look it up.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Guys, the Ravens had the most Pro Bowlers last year.
I mean, what metric do you want to use for
stack roster? The Ravens had eight Pro bowlers, Minnesota Vikings
had seven, the Steelers had six, the Lions had six,
and the Eagles had six. So are they the best roster?
What are we saying like they had the most first
round picks. It's just people are embarrassed themselves bashing Jalen Hurts.
(20:02):
And I'll close out with one more stat because I
know you guys are gonna love this. Well, he's got
our awesome roster. They just run away with every game.
Actually not really, Jalen Hurts has the second best winning
percentage in games his team is trailed by.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Ten or more points. He's a comeback king. He's the
only guy he trails is.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Patrick Mahomes, one quarterback better at comeback wins than Jalen Hurts,
and that's Patrick Mahomes now.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Lamar Jackson, not Josh Allen. Is Jalen Hurts?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
So is it the stack roster or is it Hurts?
Delivering with and without Saquon Barkley, You make the call.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 10 (20:42):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 11 (20:48):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
of course the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 10 (20:55):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 11 (20:56):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationship, so what's going
on in the world.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
To have the time to discuss.
Speaker 11 (21:09):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together. I mean that says something, right.
Speaker 10 (21:14):
So check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say.
Speaker 11 (21:19):
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the most interactive show on Planetar. Be sure to
check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio
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two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of
the live show, just search Covin on Rich wherever you
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Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
All right, let's bring in Rachel Nichols, NBA insider. She's
covered the league forever. I was a young guy picking
up the newspapers from the driveway for school, and I
would read the Rachel Nichols byline with like Ja Donde, Wilbon, Corneiser.
Speaker 8 (21:56):
You read me and I when I was a kid
in the Washington, DC area, red Weilboughe and cortinized, and
I was like, this is why I want to get
into the business. And here we are. Yeah, we do
for us, we did, we did, okay.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Right, we did? Okay? Well, okay, I don't want to
say I've made it.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
You certainly made it. I'm trying still to make it.
But I see you were is that Nick's blue?
Speaker 8 (22:14):
Well look it's all the blues, right, I mean, you
got the thunder.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Blue, so many blues it's not Thunderblue.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
So many blues, so little time.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
So I guess, because I don't want to be too negative,
I just crushed the cheese. Tyre's Halliburton was kind of
sort of bad last night.
Speaker 8 (22:29):
What was going on? Yeah, passive for sure, right, I mean, look,
he is not a fifty points a game guy typically,
So it's not like, oh man, he didn't score fifty,
but he should not be taking seven shots in thirty
two minutes. That should never happen, and by the way,
he missed five of them. I would not expect any
of that to happen. Again, I don't know what was
going on with a lot of the pacers sort of
rhythm the other you know that they're not paying at
(22:50):
the pace they normally play at. One thing I like
to listen for on a Knicks broadcast is can the
organists get into the like defense? Right? It's that that chant?
And if he can get into the whole defense chant,
that means the pacers are not playing at their correct
style and pace of play, because he should be. It
should be so fast to the other end that he
(23:10):
can't even get into the like the whole thing. And
so we were getting a lot of organ last night,
and if you have a lot of organ that does
not favor Tyrese Haliburton and the Pacers, I'm interested to
see when they get back to their own court. You
are not going to have all five starters only totally
what thirty seven points like? Right? I mean, that's not
going to happen. The Knicks force twenty turnovers. I don't
(23:31):
expect that to happen again. So it'll be interesting to
see if the scale is even out and it really
does become a brawl, who's going to come out of
game set?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
So let me ask what took Thibodeau so long to
pick up Haliburton full court? It feels kind of basic TIBs.
Speaker 8 (23:44):
What was going on? Well, look there's a lot there too.
What took him so long to play more of his bench?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Here you go?
Speaker 8 (23:49):
Okay, that's another thing I listened to on the broadcast.
I heard Landry Shammitt cheers from the garden, faithful, do
you know what has to happen for there to be
Landry Shammit cheers down? Twenty Landry Shammitt has to play.
That's what has to happen, and so we are seeing
him go deeper into his rotation. We're seeing him pick
up Halburton. As you said, he's getting a little tweaky
an tickery there, which is not the TIBs style. But
(24:10):
you know, look, we said the first couple of games
of the series, it felt like he was being out
coached by Rick Carlisle. And there's no shame in that.
Rick Carlisle is a champion, a Hall of Fame coach.
Tom Thibodeau obviously an exceptional long tenured coach, but it's
nice to see him also tinkering and sort of seeing
what he can do with this team because it's a
fascinating series as we go.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, so this is a tough one, but like you know,
I know the players and coaches. We don't listen to
the media, tune it out. I wonder Tibodau made so
many changes. I wonder if he heard like there's been
chalk hey, Michael Malone could be the next coach of
the next like TIBs wasn't pushing the right buttons. Do
you think that there was some outside noise that changed
things or DC analytics. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (24:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (24:49):
I don't think Tom, I don't think Tibbs really pays
a lot of attention to what so and so in
the New York Post is saying, like, it's just not.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
How I do.
Speaker 8 (24:58):
Yeah, look, I do think that players hear it a
lot more. You're absolutely right. And look, the thing about
TIBs is interesting. When things were looking like Dacey but
like rougher than expected in that Piston series, there were
people around the league being like, man, if they get
upset against Detroit and they lose in the first round,
Tom could lose his job. And we are way obviously
past that now he will be for regardless of the
(25:21):
outcome of Saturday night's game, Tom Thibadeau will be fine
and he will be the coach of the New York
next All.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Right, I want to play some sound here from Pascal
Siakam last night.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Take a listen, and I'm curious your thoughts on it.
Speaker 12 (25:33):
They played harder than us. I think I think they
played harder than us. You know, loose balls, like reboundce
like all that. How is that what you mean he's
talking about they played harder than us. It's okay, we
played harder, but they played Harder's what's your point.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
I don't get it that happens in the game. Do
it as basketball?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You're good?
Speaker 7 (26:01):
You're good, bro, You're looking for something.
Speaker 8 (26:05):
I know.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
I'm damn no, no, But I'm telling you though I
told you. What else? Do you want me to tell you?
What about you telling me?
Speaker 4 (26:19):
So?
Speaker 7 (26:19):
Go ahead?
Speaker 8 (26:21):
Who's this guy?
Speaker 7 (26:22):
Who's this guy?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
All right? First of all, Rachel, I love that I
know the reporter in question, Greg Doyle. I don't want
to blast. I got whatever irrelevant. I do wonder, though,
is this the first sign that maybe pressure is getting
to the Pacers because didn't like the line of questioning that,
like we got out played and he was pushing back,
and I don't know that Pascal Siakam has showed anything
(26:44):
like that in the press conference all season, So I
wonder if the pressures maybe getting to them or is
this am I reaching here?
Speaker 8 (26:50):
Well, I like what he said when he said, what
do you mean we did play hard? We just played harder?
I like that part because like to pretend that these
are only level athletes, to pretend that anyone else there
in the Eastern Conference Finals isn't trying. Ess I'm saying
that's what Greg said, but I mean, it's just such
a crazy sort of notion. I hear fans say sometimes,
of course they were trying. Interesting was not their night.
(27:10):
I do think the pressure is now on them, though,
whether it started in the postgame press conference or whether
it extends to Saturday night. I know that they played
a Game seven in Madison Square Garden last year. I
know that I remember that. However, that game was not
a pressure game because the Knicks were so battered and bruised.
They were wheeling og Anobi out there practically at like
(27:31):
a walker under the basket, like everybody was hurt. You
knew the Pacers are winning that game. This game, this
game six at home, with a Game seven in the
garden looming and teams relatively at full strength. That's the pressure.
And I think this is where we will see where
the rubber meets the road with these Pacers.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
All right, We're gonna come back from break with Rachel.
I'm gonna tell her why I've got the Knicks winning
Game six.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
I'm shocking here.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Don't know if they got a better chance to win
the finals than the Facers.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
We'll be back after this.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
One. More heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app, search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Welcome back, Rachel Nicholson Studio talking to NBA Mix.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Triumphant last night the Big Game six.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
So, Rachel, the last time I can remember a big
team coming back from down three to one besides the
Cavs Warriors was that Warriors team that won seventy three games.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
They were down three to one to the Thunder.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
They went on the road in Game six and Clay
went for forty one hit eleven threes. Do you think
the Knicks have somebody on that roster who can deliver
a Clay type performance.
Speaker 8 (28:44):
On the road. Look, the series is very close. In fact,
if you look at the point differential, the Knicks are
actually ahead. I scored more points in this series than Indiana.
If Game one had gone differently, we would be having
a very different conversation. And ten things had to happen
for Game one to go the way it did. And
I'm not saying the Pacers got lucky. Seven of those
ten things were things the Pacers did, but it still
(29:07):
required ten things, right. So that's how close the Knicks are.
That's how close this series is. And I don't have
any question that it's possible they could win the next
two games. I just think it's hard to win three
in a row against an evenly matched opponent. They've won
the first of those three, but can they win the
next two? And I to your point, does it take
(29:27):
a Clay Thompson like forty point performance? Someone shoot the
lights out? And by the way, the thing we forget
about that game in game six, Clay, he still had
Steph Curry scoring.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
He did next to it.
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Yeah, it's not as if he like he did it
all by himself. So it's like, oh yeah, man, jaylen Bruns,
you can drop fifty. He can, But then who else
is there? And that's where we get back into the
Karl Anthony Towns conversation, A conversation I know you have
had plenty, both on the show and with your friends
in the group chat. And what I loved about what
we saw last night from Kat and which would give
me hope if I was in Knicks fans, is that
he was in full Bodega cat mode. He was scratching
(29:59):
and crawl, you know, all the things that you want
to see him do, playing so physical face to the basket,
being aggressive, if he is that kind of player, if
he can be that consistent, If Jalen Brunston not only
lights it up offensively but also plays decent defense, which
he has not been playing for all of this series,
but certainly played last night, That's where you start to
be like, oh, could they have a Game six? Could
(30:20):
they have a Game seven? That kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
All right, so before we get to oksee everybody's favorite
team the New Darling. So you know, there's this whole
big small market narrative around the league, and I just wonder,
like we've seen changes in the league with the CBA.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
They want small market teams to thrive.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Right, They've adjusted the CBA so if you draft a superstar,
he's incentivized to stay with you.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And now we've got the Aprons, and I'm reading about.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
The Minnesota Timberwolves apparently like they're not gonna be able
to afford everybody Randall, They're gonna lose Alexander Walker, Like this.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Is what the league wants. Seven different champs in the
seven years parody. But Rachel, I go back to the
twenty tens.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Or team however you call it. I love the super
team era, right, I mean it was like stacked teams.
I don't care if they're in Cleveland or Miami or
Golden State.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Like to me, I love that. I know you've been
around the league forever, but like who do.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
You did you prefer the Super League super teams or
do you prefer now with like everybody has a chance.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
It's just important to think back through who's making these decisions.
Could you think about what the league wants? It's not
really Adam Silver in the league office.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
He has bosses.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Adam Silver's bosses are the thirty owners, right, and the
thirty owners they want parody. Yes, they want more than
three or four teams in it, because guess what if
there's only three or four teams in it, then twenty five,
twenty six the teams they don't have a shot. They
want seven champions in seven years because that means more
of them have a chance to hoist up a championship trophy.
So that is who is making these decisions. That's who's
(31:46):
making the rules about the aprons and all of this
other stuff. And yeah, they want to incentivize players to
stay in markets where they can't necessarily grab and attract
free agents. But I just think it kind of it
goes in cycle. When we have dynasties, it's frankly good
for the league in terms of people outside the game,
because that's what attracts non basketball fans. After a few
(32:08):
years of Steph Curry and the Warriors winning, your grandmother
knows who Steph Curry is, exactly When there's a different
champion every year, your grandmother does not have time to
learn who Nikolayokich or Sga is. And as I've said
on this network, some grandmas know who Nikolaiokich's and I
plawed those grandmas, but it's not the same. It's not
the same. So I think that's what you're feeling a
little bit. If you are a fan, if you are
(32:29):
an in it everyday basketball fan, I think you probably
like that there is a little more parody because your
team might be able to get there.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And that's so who are we catering to the twenty
five billionaire owners who own teams and want a profit
or the casual fans, the grandma's or the diehards who
are going to watch regardless whether it's a super team
or Denver winning the title or a small market.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
It's and you read the newspaper. We cater to billionaires
in this country. That's what we do.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Oh no, I like that.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
So let me ask along that line, like, do you
I think OKAC is set up for a dynasty? Because
I will say, Rachel, we heard this about Denver when
they want oh Murray and Jokichen there prod Yeah, And
we heard this about Boston amazing roster.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Now we're hearing the same about OKAC. And I'm like,
I've heard this before.
Speaker 8 (33:13):
Look the advantage OKC has and the reason everyone is
so excited is because they are a young team with
players playing on smaller rookie contracts. Because it will be
a couple of years until some of their younger players
like Jaylen Williams Chut Holmgren needs to really get paid,
they will have the chance to keep this team together.
SGA's super Max doesn't kick in right away that kind
of thing. Boston was certainly set up, even though they
(33:36):
were into the second Apron. They were set up to
be a team because they kept their guys who could
win a couple of championships. They just had some bad play,
first of all against the next and then also some
bad luck with the Tatum injury. If the Oklahoma City
Thunder continue as they are, and all of the assets
that they have, that's the other ingredients all of this drafts. Yes,
they are set up for a run. But to your point,
(33:58):
this is such a competitive Western co it is ridiculous.
And now we're talking about rumors that Giannis is going
to now join us. Just getting out of the West
is going to be so hard for so many teams,
including even the Thunder. Even if they win the title
this year, even if they look unstoppable, they will still
have to go through such a gauntlet next year.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And I'll add, like I had to look this up,
but the second highest paid player on the Thunder is
Isaiah Hartenstein.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, thirty million dollars. Like wow, that is a crazy roster.
So let me one more thing on SGA.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
So Jeff T, I'm sure you're familiar with his work,
said that SGA has saved the league with his mid
range assassin stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
I agree with some of that. The mid ranges back
is interesting because Brunson's doing the same thing. But saving
the NBA of Rachel does the NBA need saving?
Speaker 8 (34:47):
No? I mean, look, everything in our hot take world
is sort of so extreme. You know, the NBA is
on death store og. SGA has come and nursed us
back to how look. I like Jeff by the way,
but yes, I think that there's no question that there's
a little bit more mid range game in the NBA.
I have been saying for years, Yes, three is more
than two, but two is more than zero. So if
(35:09):
you don't have a good three to take, take the
two because two is more than zero. And I think
we are getting a little bit of that back. Everything
is swings right. So when analytics became so effective, people
were like, only do this, only do that, And now
we're seeing a little bit of swings back of like
a little flexibility within some games. Then Boston Celtics, by
the way, which will still take only three, is and
shoot you, try to shoot you out of the building.
So not every team is the same. I think SGA
(35:32):
is a good player because he is a good player.
It is not because he is taking mid range shots. Yes,
he is very good at them, and he's taking them
and he's using them effectively, but he's doing so many
other things on the court effectively two and that is
what is powering this team. He's a great defender. I mean,
it's not just oh, that one shot that's saving the NBA.
And that's what SGA does. He does a lot of things.
Speaker 7 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
So the Pacers were in the Eastern Conference finals last year. Yes,
the Thunder were the number one seed I think in
the West last year. Neither of them got Smith's Day
games this past season. Will we see either of them
on Christmas next year?
Speaker 8 (36:04):
Rachel? I mean, look, certainly the NBA champion has to
play in christ are we sure? And I would think
that the NBA finalist plays on Christmas as well. But look,
the league is programming for the grandma's that day, huh right?
They want who does your whole entire family, not just
you who normally sits on the couch at nine forty
five at night addicted to the NBA, But who does
your whole family that's there on Christmas want to watch play?
(36:27):
And I don't care how they finish, as long as
Stiff Steph and Lebron and those guys and KD are
still in the leadue U huh, they will be playing
on Christmas Day because that is who the larger extended
family wants.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
So someone smart in our meeting this morning compared this
Okac Thunder team I'm pushing there. They're boring, no good
sound bites the mid range. I don't hate them, you know,
I just I'm bored by them.
Speaker 8 (36:52):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
And then someone said they're the Spurs two point zero,
just like Tim Duncan Manu Parker. They didn't give crazy
sound bites. Their coach actually gave the best, and they
weren't flashy. There was no in your face dunks, no
Anthony Edwards stuff. And I said, that's not Are they
Spurs two point zero?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Is there the potential for that?
Speaker 8 (37:09):
I think they're pretty different. I mean this has that
more feel of like that young college team that's a
lot of fun, without as many individuals sort of huge
media standouts the way Anthony Edwards is or something like that.
Cha jels herselves in. Alexander has a ton of personality.
He has got swag for days. When you see him
walk into the arena. I wish he would wear some
of that stuff in the press conferences after the game,
(37:30):
because he is one hundred percent stylist. He's got the
whole look going. He's just not as loud a guy
and he plays in Oklahoma City. I think this is
a fun team to watch and it's okay to have
a finals or have a team in the finals. That
is for the Hoopeats, that is for the authentic basketball fans.
Sometimes that's okay. It's not good for the league if
(37:52):
that happens all the time, if there isn't a team
or a player, that's the larger public who aren't day
to day NBA fans can't relate to that. That's not
good for the NBA. They need everybody to watch the finals.
But once in a while, it is okay to have
if you know, you know, yes star, if you know
you know team. It makes fans feel good, right, It
makes you feel like you can tell your friends, Oh,
you don't know this about them, but bah and about
(38:14):
the Thunder. You should get to like them, Jason, because
here's what they are with the regular season in the
playoffs so far this season. Adding them together, they're eighty
and eighteen. They're eighty and eighteen. You know what they
are against the Eastern Conference, they're twenty nine in one.
So it's great to watch this Pacers next series. I
hope all series go to seven, So I hope this
series goes to seven. Both of these teams are really
(38:37):
fun for me. I hope both of them win if
it was possible, It's all great. They're not going to
be the savorst of the finals. Trying to hold my
tongue a little bit and not say they're going to
get crushed. But I celebrate your wins boys over the
next few days, because I'm not sure it's going to continue.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
So if my wife says, hey, we got a Saturday
night thing with this other couple we got we're going
to dinner and it's game two of the finals, do
I say, hey, I can't go.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
I gotta watch the finals.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Now. If it was Lebron versus Curry right out, I'm
watching the game right But if it's okay, see Indiana,
I gotta be honest, I'll catch highlights Like is that
okay to say?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Can I say that as an NBA fan?
Speaker 8 (39:13):
Look, Rachel, look look again. You don't make more money
personally as a fan if a high market or high
sort of media team is in it, you don't. It
does not affect you. So it is okay to feel like, Okay,
this is a smaller one or this is a bigger one.
It's not gonna hit your bottom line or your wallet
as a fan, right, So it's okay, we just don't
(39:35):
have to have so much handwringing over this. You know,
if the rating is a little lower or a little higher,
if you're a fan, it does not matter to you
at all. Right, So just sometimes there's gonna be huge,
big stars and fireworks. Sometimes it's going to be more
of a like authentic if you know, you know series
and players, that variety I actually think is good for
the game, and maybe you know, so they'll adopt some
(39:57):
people who didn't think they would stay home Saturday night.
But Tyres Haliburton, Man, if he's the one who's in
there and he hits one of those if in game
one he hits another, oh my god, how did he
do that last second come from behind shot, you might
be canceling those plans on game two.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
By the way, Halloween night, everybody I know had a
TV on at Halloween parties for the World Series Game one?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yes, remember and that ended of course last one. Real quick.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
If I said Kevin Durant winds up in Minnesota, they
do some sign in trade not read whatever?
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Would that shock you?
Speaker 8 (40:28):
Eight?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Anthony Edwards and Durant are are friends.
Speaker 8 (40:31):
I mean, would not check me at all I and
thinks the world revolves around KD and so would not
shock me at all. Certainly, there's been a lot of
reporting out there that the Wolves were hotly pursuing a
Kevin Durant trade as we got to the deadline this
past season, So yeah, it does, it wouldn't surprise me
at all. I mean, the irony is Kevin Durant, who
is you know, Hall of Famer upon Hall of Famers
and all of the things, Multiple Rings finals, MVP is
(40:53):
going to have to wait until the Jannis and Sukuko
situation settles to see where he is going to go,
because any team that in the Ken Durant chase is
at least going to kick the tires on a Yannis chase.
And I just think for say Houston, which is a
team that we hear a lot as sort of maybe
a KD destination, well they're also maybe a y Honist destination.
So we have to see a Doesianist want to leave Milwaukee,
(41:15):
because I'm not sending him away unless he asks for
a trade. If he says he wants to leave, where
is he going to go? Where are the Bucks going
to send him? Again? If I'm the Bucks and I've
learned from the Drew Holiday experience. I am not sending
him anywhere where he could end up east. And I
know they didn't send him to Boston, but nobody thought
he was playing in Portland. They were just sending him
to Portland as okay, great, you distributed him and then
(41:36):
he ended up being on the team that beat them
right and beat them out for another title. So they
are not going to send him east. They're going to
send him west, which means Kevin Durant has to wait
and see what happens. If Janis asks out, if the
Bucks trade him, if he goes somewhere that Katie was
also looking to go, then what happens to Kevin Durant.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, so he's kind of waiting. So Yannis could go Houston,
San Antonio? Is there a world where he stays east?
Obviously next would be difficult. But what about Miami?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
I keep hearing that's a team to watch.
Speaker 8 (42:06):
Certainly Miami covets him. They would give all of the
things on the cupboard for Yanni Sentopo. It's just is
there enough in the cupboard right compared to some of
what those other teams. And again, if you're the books
I would think very hard about dealing him to a
team in the Eastern Conference if I'm yest, By the way,
I would think very hard about leaving the Eastern Conference.
And when he has this decision to make of do
(42:28):
I stay in Milwaukee or not? I think there's a
lot of sort of basketball people who look at the
cap sheet and look at the say he can't win
the next few years. What's the point he should go
somewhere else. I get it, I understand, and I agree
he cannot win in Milwaukee the next few years. They
do not have the resources or assets. But there is
more than winning. I know that it's a dirty thing
to say in sports.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
There is.
Speaker 8 (42:48):
And by the way, you're not guaranteed to win anywhere
else you go. Right, the Boston Celtics were set up
to win and they're not even in the last two
rounds of the playoffs. So you have to think about everything.
Do you have a chance to win, yes, But you
also have to think about where do you play, what's
your day to day life, what city are you in,
and what's the love and relationship with that city? And
(43:08):
are you going to have more fun playing basketball and
winning more basketball games? If you are a winning is
everything guy in the Eastern Conference playing for they can't
win at all, Milwaukee Bucks. Then you are battling it
out in the West where every night is going to
be a war, and you can have a winning record
and still end up like battling for the plant. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
No, great stuff. Rachel Nichols knows everything about the league.
Sorry to keep you so long, right because it was phenomenal.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio and noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Hello, and welcome to the Herd. A beautiful Friday because
the Knicks one last night. Baby, It's me.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Jason McIntyre in on a Friday for traveling Colin Cowherd.
He's I don't know if I can say parts unknown.
I think he's gonna be posting on IG later. I'm
joined by Alex Curry. Alex, not only do we have
a great Thursday with the Knicks winning, Hey, we have
a Yankees Dodgers this weekend.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
It's I love when you get a fit slave of games.
But you're the first person I thought about last night.
I was like, what an awesome Friday show. It's gonna
be j Knicks fight to live and see another day.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I was listen.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I gotta say I'm excited. I'm going to a Yankees
Dodgers game. This we have my first one was able
to secure some tickets. I can't really say. I don't
need everybody coming up.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
To me at the game. Let them know where you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
By the way, I went to a Kendrick Lamar concert
good last weekend with the Fam, and there were some
Herd fans who were like J Mack yeah, And I.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Was like, well, love Kelly, he's a family friend.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You obviously are close.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I won't reveal that stuff, but anyways, life is good
out here in La.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Life is good if you're a Knicks fan. Folks. We
have a series once again. Knicks get the win.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
At home at the Garden last night, pretty convincing, wire
to wire. I don't want to overreact, but I think
they're actually back in the series. Okay, they dominated last night.
I don't think there was one tense moment in the
second half. I don't even know if it got to
single digits. I know there's gonna be a lot of
basic analysis out there today. Hey, the Pacers didn't really try.
(01:55):
They had Game six at home, so you could see
they were lethargic. You have to watch the game closely guys,
and the Knicks actually made some adjustments. Tom Thibodeau, thank
you for making changes. I mean it's the small things,
like Tyrese Haliburton had an awful game, and we'll get
to him later, but it wasn't just he played poorly
or he wasn't locked in. The Knicks made adjustments. Again,
(02:17):
it's a small thing, but they picked him up full court.
You know, as a guy who plays in men's leagues,
you got to pick up full court point guards hate
that Tyrese Haliburton struggled against the full court pressure, only
ended up taking seven shots. And the Knicks defense was
so good for the first time in the entire series. Guys,
the Knicks won the turnover battle. Yes, they forced the
(02:38):
Pacers into more turnovers than the Knicks committed, and it
really helped the Knicks offense. Obviously, Jalen Brunson was phenomenal,
Karl Anthony Towns was excellent, and listen, I think this
is series back on. A lot of people are saying, oh,
the Pacers got it. I was mildly surprised to see
the Pacers are three and a half point favorites for
Game six Saturday night. But the biggest change I saw
(03:01):
was Jalen Brunson defensively. Jalen Brunton heard all your criticisms,
heard all your Oh Haliburton's better, now, yeah he's better.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
No, no, let's just take a deep breath.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
That was one game. Jalen Brunson was locked in defensively.
Here he is after the game talking about the dub.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
I mean I brashingassed the wall and so I wasn't
thinking I need to play better than him.
Speaker 7 (03:23):
I was just thinking I need to help my team win.
Speaker 8 (03:25):
And I'm just on minds every time went the court,
just helping my team.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
One, folks, I got a mind blowing sat for you.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
So in games one through four, the Pacers picked on
Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Literally give me him, I want him in the pick
and roll, and they attacked him.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
According to some stats, the Pacers were sixty eight percent
from the field sixty eight percent when Brunson was the
primary defender in games one through four. So what happened
in Game five? Brunson fighting through screens, locked in, getting down.
Pacers shot three for fourteen with Brunson as the primary defender.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
That's twenty one percent for you, math majors. Out there.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Just a fit nominal performance at both ends from Brunson
offensively carried him. Carl Anthony Town's obviously was excellent, and
specifically Brunson went at Halliburton. I don't know if you
guys noticed. They started attacking Halliburton in the pick and
roll and Halliburton struggled coming off a one of the
games that were they're calling it one of the best
performances ever where Halliburton at thirty fifteen and ten with
(04:23):
no turnovers, Haliburton had eight points and you know, we'll
go after him later.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
We'll take some jabs at Haliburton later on.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
But here he is after the game talking about his
lack of intensity and the Pacers kind of getting rolled.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
We're a resilient group, you know.
Speaker 9 (04:38):
We we always want to respond with things don't go well.
You know, after a game like that, we understand what
the stakes are and we understand the conversation. Well, it
will be around our group, but you know, we're we're fine.
We're fine. There's no need to panic, right thing.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
We're fine.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
We'll see a lot of people already like the Pacers
to win Game six.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I told you the spreads three and a half I
do want to point out two things.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Number One, for the first time this year or last year,
the pressure is on Indiana. Okay, last year the Knicks
got injured in the series despite being.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Up three to two.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Now the Pacers pressures on them, folks, and they have
not felt this pressure before. They've got to win this game.
You don't want to have to go back to the garden.
And for those that are saying, oh, trust me, Jay,
Pacers weren't locked in. They didn't care. They were going
home for Game six. Look at the last round. Okay,
they had to go back to Cleveland on the road
Game five, and they smashed the Calves in a let's
(05:34):
end the series. So I don't want to hear this.
They didn't lay down, or they laid down because they
had Game six. And the other point is, so nine
years ago this weekend, I moved my family across the
country for this job here at Fox.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It's been fun or having a blast.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
But something else happened nine years ago this week, and
that was Golden State lead trailing. Ok see three to one.
You remember, Okay, he was up three to one. They
go to Golden State for Game.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Five, they lose.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
It was similar not quite wire to wire, but Golden
State controlled that game. So then they had Game six
in OKC. All right, do you guys remember this game
nine years ago? Klay Thompson special hit eleven threes forty
one points and the Warriors erased the three to one
deficit end up winning in seven. My question to the Knicks,
(06:23):
who is Klay Thompson Saturday night in Indiana? Somebody's got
to blow up? We know what brunts is gonna get his?
Is it gonna be Bridges? Is it gonna be Karl
Anthony towns og Nnobi?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Are you gonna be the guy that shows up? Someone
has to erupt. They're gonna need a.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Volcanic performance from someone to take down the pacer Saturday.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I like the Knicks in that one.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
All right, let's shift topics and go to my favorite
team in the NBA, the Oklahoma City Thunder. Yes, I know, Jay,
you've been banging on them all season. You've been calling
SGA the free throw Merchant? Can you put some respect
on Okac's name? Well, but first I've got to give
a quick shout out to a former NBA player who
(07:05):
I thought I saw one of the hottest takes I've
seen on OKC, and that's courtesy of Jeff t former
Indiana Pacers point guard who played in Minnesota and a
couple other stops. He has a podcast, and he went
on raving about SGA in the mid range and get this,
saving the NBA.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
I think SBA saved the NBA. Oh, this is what
I'm saying. I'm not saying because of how I perform,
but the way he play. He saved the NBA because
the NBA is a copycat lead and he perfected the
mill range game, right, so he brought back the ability
to better shoot meriraane shots. I got crucified in Minnesota
for just wanting to shoot a mall range shot if
(07:44):
it wasn't a three or ear layer for analytics, and
him being the MVP and his go to shot is
a mill range shot.
Speaker 7 (07:51):
He literally just saved the NBA.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
All right, listen, I gotta give my guy's credit here.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
A couple of producers sent me that yesterday.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I was like, Damn, that's a good I don't think
it's complete and I'm not gonna give Tigue all the credit.
I think it's a phenomenal take. I don't think he's
totally accurate, and let me tell you why. Yes, SGA
is killing in the mid range. He's totally dominant. I
saw some stats where he's shooting over fifty percent in
the mid range.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Now he's not quite saving the league.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
I saw some stats Michael Jordan attempted like twelve hundred
or mid range shots or whatever it was in the nineties.
SGA's only like around four hundred. So it's not quite
what it was with MJ and even Kobe. But the
reason they can do the mid range with SGA is
because they play phenomenal defense. They're number one in defensive
(08:41):
efficiency in the league by a mile. They're calling this
one of the best defensive teams in her generation. Well, guys,
if you can get stops and they can no denying it,
of course you can trade twos for threes. It's not
that big a deal.
Speaker 7 (08:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
You can't not play defense and then spam threes and
expect to win every game because you're gonna go cold
from three. I did look this up. The two best
three point shooting teams this year were Boston and Cleveland.
Guess what happened to them in the playoffs. Boston shot
sixty threes in a game they went cold from three
against the next it happens.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
And we all know what happened to Cleveland. They got
out shot from three.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I believe in every game against Talliburton, and all of
a sudden, you go cold from three, you don't have
a CounterPunch. So OKASE has won in the mid range game. Now,
an amazing stat for OKC is they're three point shooting
way down.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
You're not gonna believe this.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
So sixteen teams in the playoffs, OKAC is thirteenth in
three point shooting. Ordinarily that's a death. Now OKAC has
been out shot from three in ten of sixteen playoff games.
Usually that's like, oh, they're getting bounced. But because of
the defense and the mid range game, they're able to
completely blow teams out. But we don't see this a
(09:57):
lot because nobody's playing defense in the league anymore. You
guys know, I love the hey zig when everybody'sagging. So
right now, in the NBA, the analytics say, spam threes,
fire away. It's a math equation. And we've seen this before, right, So,
Billy Bean and moneyball in baseball, okay, hey, we can't
compete with the big spenders. So we've got to find
(10:19):
obscure stats that matter and kind of build our line
up that way. And they did that with the Oakland
A's and they had a lot of success. Another analogy,
so YouTube comes out and all their videos are horizontal
because hey, we want to look like TV. So what
does TikTok do? Hey, let's do vertical for the phone.
So TikTok goes totally different at Boom, TikTok goes to
(10:41):
the moon. Well, guess who starts copying TikTok, YouTube shorts,
Instagram reels.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Now all verdio videos are vertical.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
So will we see like Jeff tgue is saying, everybody
copy OKC and go to the mid rage. Well, I'm
sure the Minnesota Timberwolves Anthony Edwards who led the league
in threes and only got layups and dunks, is he
gonna pivot and say I gotta work on a mid
range or all these NBA trainers who were helping everybody
work on threes. So are they gonna say we got
(11:09):
to get back to the mid range. I don't necessarily
think that's gonna happen. I do think there is the
world where other teams can copy. But you gotta play
good defense, like the Cabs would make a lot of
sense to play.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
They play great defense with Mobile and Allen. But are
they gonna say, Donovan Mitchell, let's get to the mid range.
I don't know that that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
So while I like the take, I don't think this
whole saving the NBA is as one hundred percent spot on.
I do think Okayc's gonna be favored, obviously heavily against
the Pacers or Knicks. But I would wrap up by saying,
we saw Okac stop Anthony Edwards fairly easily, and you
looked at it and you're like, why didn't the Lakers
(11:50):
try that.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Let's just put up a picket fence right at the
foul line, say you're.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Not getting to the lane. We're not gonna let it happen.
And he couldn't do that, and Minnesota couldn't make any threes.
So are we gonna see the Pacers or Nick say, hey, SGA,
we're gonna wall off the pain. No more minis for you, buddy.
Let's see what Jalen Williams, Je Dubb and Louke Dort.
Let's see what those guys can do from three, because
oh look, the analytics say they're not hitting threes in
(12:15):
the playoffs, and I think that's what we're gonna see
in the finals.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And I don't think.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Okay, so he's gonna waltz over the Knicks or Pacers,
whoever it may be. But SGA certainly is making people
think and the hot takes are flying about saving the NBA. So, Alex,
we got a game six Saturday night. I know you're excited.
I know I'm fired up.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I gotta be honest, like I was all in on
the Knicks after they kind of blew through Boston and
then the start of this series, I was like, okay,
maybe that Boston series was their finals and they just
kind of blew it out. But what impressed me most
about last night was listening to Carl Anthony Towns on
his postgame interview with Shaq and Charles, and they were
(12:56):
asking him, you know, like, what's the conversation you guys
are having, like on the plane, not in front of everybody,
and he goes, why not us like that one game
at a time, Why can't we do it? Why can't
we be the team that does it? And you kind
of saw that attitude last night. Yeah, of they played
desperate and it worked. They outplayed the Pacers in every
(13:18):
part of the game totally. If they can do that
and win Game six in Indie tomorrow, anything is possible
in the games.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I'm gonna I'm gonna call joshing.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Is possible in a game seven.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
But they all have to show up, like Carl Anthony
talents has to show up.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
No more dumb fouls. Let's dive back to you. Did
you hear him call him out? They called him out
on that last night?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Ye. Stan Van Gundy during the broadcast was it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think the next got a shot.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
They said, I'm betting them yet.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
But I think they got like after last night, Like.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So you're sayer chance that little dub and dumber all right?
Coming up next, Jalen Hurts. Can you believe he's getting crushed?
I can't believe it. They're saying he's the biggest weakness
on the Eagles. Let me just say I totally disagree.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I'll tell you that next here on the Herd.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in newon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
App back here on the Herd, got Rachel Nichols coming
up to talk about the Knicks.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Probably we'll get into the free throw merchant as well. Listen.
I gotta say, if you guys watch the show yesterday, you.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Know, Coward and I went at it. I think it
was a twelve round that felt like, you know, Foreman
Tyson or Foreman Holyfield. Sorry regarding Jalen Hurts, Okay, now
I did. Before I moved out here to LA I
did live outside of Philly, but I don't really have
a super connection to the city. It was a suburban life.
But I like the Eagles that I pay attention to them,
(14:44):
and for some reason, the bashing of Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It's just getting under my skin. Okay. I like, you know,
I like to defend underdogs.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
I like to defend guys who I think are really
good that maybe the market is not up to speed
on and this pro football focus on website I go
to helps a lot the gambling. They said that the
biggest weakness on the defending Super Bowl champion was wait
for it, the Super Bowl MVP. They said it was
the passing game that was the weakness of the Eagles.
(15:13):
So you know, it's not that hard to look up
some SATs on the Pro Football Focused website, and you know,
let me give you some SATs here.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
This is the Super Bowl MVP last year. Passing, which
is the biggest weakness from the pocket.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Here's Jalen Hurts, you know, second in completion percentage, third
in yards per passing yards per game, and then passer
rating fifth.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I think that should be yards per attempt. But bottom
line is, it's not like this is a dink and
dunk offense.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Jalen Hurts can beat you anyway deep down the field,
over the middle, scrambling. The best running quarterback in the league. Sorry,
Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts are better.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
He's got the Turst push, which is automatic. I don't
get the.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Bashing of Jalen Hurts, and I think it all comes
down to him being drafted in the second round, which,
oh man, he's not a first round pick. Stupid and goofy.
And then there's the whole saga that happened in Alabama
where he gets bench to the national championship replaced by
Tua Tua goes on. I mean, that's like, that's historic stuff.
You never see that, and he had to transfer. But
(16:15):
all Jalen Hurts is done is overcome everything. His height,
the benching at Alabama, Remember, he didn't come in as
the starter in Philly. He had to win that job.
He had a awful and I'm talking. I think they
lost their first playoff game with thirty one nothing. People
wanted to bench him at halftime. I think me included.
(16:36):
All he's done is overcome everything. And now he's the
Super Bowl MVP, and they're still disrespecting him. Philadelphia catered
the offense to Jalen Hurts and it's working. And oh no, no,
the rosters stacked. What do we play that game with
Joe Burrow? Hey man, Joe Burrow's got the best wide
receiver duo in the league. Probably Higgins and Chase are
(16:59):
historically a great wide receiver. Cobo got to be top
five six all time. I don't know if it's Rice
and Taylor, but it's certainly up there. Okay, we don't
play this game with Patrick Mahones. Well, he has a
generational tight end in Travis Kelcey and one of the
top five coaches, top three coaches in NFL history. We
don't do that Lamar Jackson gets Derrick Henry a first
(17:19):
ballot Hall of Fame Locke, and we make excuses for Lamar,
we don't bash it. So anyways, Shady McCoy was on
the facility yesterday. Shady a former Eagles player who I know,
great guy, Shady.
Speaker 7 (17:31):
I like him.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Here's what he said defended Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
AJ told me, well, players tell me that the offense
is really the offense, and CoA point corner is you
come over here to fit the Jalen Hurts offense.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So think about this.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
We know that the top four guys are Mahomes, Josh
Allen's a rating MVP, Lamar's got two mvvs at Joe
Burrow went to a super Bowl. That's the consensus top four.
I don't see why this isn't a consensus top five.
It doesn't make sense. Jalen Hurts has to be fifth.
You can make a case for Stafford, but he hasn't
been to the Super Bowl twice. Okay, he hasn't. And
(18:10):
that's what Hurts has done on a short time span.
People want to push Jayden Daniels in there. I'm like, guys,
one year, one season, like he was historically great. Let's
see him do it again, because we saw CJ. Stroud
have a great rookie year and then kind of fell
off a cliff. It took sixty three sacks last year. Yes,
Hurts has a loaded roster, great offensive line, great.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Running back to good receivers. But you know who else
had it pretty damn good. The second best quarterback in
NFL history, Joe Montana.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
It's funny if Joe Montana were playing now, would he
be in the hurt spot? Well, you know, he's got
Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice and Roger Craig. I don't know,
he's got a stack deck. Maybe he's not in that group.
Like the NFL discussion is just lazy and silly. Jalen
(18:58):
Hurts has proven he can win from the pocket. And
I'm sure there's some people at home saying, oh, well,
one year winning from the pocket. Now we've done the homework, guys,
let's get on the screen. In the last three years,
Jalen Hurts from the pocket? Oh would you look at that?
Three years, three different offensive coordinators. Twenty twenty three, they regressed.
(19:20):
The offensive coordinator was a nightmare, and he threw a
bunch of more picks. But that's three successful years for
Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
What more does he have to do?
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Can he do any more to prove that he belongs?
And I'm sure what you're saying, oh, Jason stack roster.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You know I happen to look it up.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Guys, the Ravens had the most Pro Bowlers last year.
I mean, what metric do you want to use for
stack roster? The Ravens had eight Pro bowlers, Minnesota Vikings
had seven, the Steelers had six, the Lions had six,
and the Eagles had six. So are they the best roster?
What are we saying like they had the most first
round picks. It's just people are embarrassed themselves bashing Jalen Hurts.
(20:02):
And I'll close out with one more stat because I
know you guys are gonna love this. Well, he's got
our awesome roster. They just run away with every game.
Actually not really, Jalen Hurts has the second best winning
percentage in games his team is trailed by.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Ten or more points. He's a comeback king. He's the
only guy he trails is.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Patrick Mahomes, one quarterback better at comeback wins than Jalen Hurts,
and that's Patrick Mahomes now.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Lamar Jackson, not Josh Allen. Is Jalen Hurts?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
So is it the stack roster or is it Hurts?
Delivering with and without Saquon Barkley, You make the call.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 10 (20:42):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 11 (20:48):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
of course the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 10 (20:55):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 11 (20:56):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationship, so what's going
on in the world.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
To have the time to discuss.
Speaker 11 (21:09):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together. I mean that says something, right.
Speaker 10 (21:14):
So check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say.
Speaker 11 (21:19):
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the most interactive show on Planetar. Be sure to
check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio
and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern
two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of
the live show, just search Covin on Rich wherever you
get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's
Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
All right, let's bring in Rachel Nichols, NBA insider. She's
covered the league forever. I was a young guy picking
up the newspapers from the driveway for school, and I
would read the Rachel Nichols byline with like Ja Donde, Wilbon, Corneiser.
Speaker 8 (21:56):
You read me and I when I was a kid
in the Washington, DC area, red Weilboughe and cortinized, and
I was like, this is why I want to get
into the business. And here we are. Yeah, we do
for us, we did, we did, okay.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Right, we did? Okay? Well, okay, I don't want to
say I've made it.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
You certainly made it. I'm trying still to make it.
But I see you were is that Nick's blue?
Speaker 8 (22:14):
Well look it's all the blues, right, I mean, you
got the thunder.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Blue, so many blues it's not Thunderblue.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
So many blues, so little time.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
So I guess, because I don't want to be too negative,
I just crushed the cheese. Tyre's Halliburton was kind of
sort of bad last night.
Speaker 8 (22:29):
What was going on? Yeah, passive for sure, right, I mean, look,
he is not a fifty points a game guy typically,
So it's not like, oh man, he didn't score fifty,
but he should not be taking seven shots in thirty
two minutes. That should never happen, and by the way,
he missed five of them. I would not expect any
of that to happen. Again, I don't know what was
going on with a lot of the pacers sort of
rhythm the other you know that they're not paying at
(22:50):
the pace they normally play at. One thing I like
to listen for on a Knicks broadcast is can the
organists get into the like defense? Right? It's that that chant?
And if he can get into the whole defense chant,
that means the pacers are not playing at their correct
style and pace of play, because he should be. It
should be so fast to the other end that he
(23:10):
can't even get into the like the whole thing. And
so we were getting a lot of organ last night,
and if you have a lot of organ that does
not favor Tyrese Haliburton and the Pacers, I'm interested to
see when they get back to their own court. You
are not going to have all five starters only totally
what thirty seven points like? Right? I mean, that's not
going to happen. The Knicks force twenty turnovers. I don't
(23:31):
expect that to happen again. So it'll be interesting to
see if the scale is even out and it really
does become a brawl, who's going to come out of
game set?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
So let me ask what took Thibodeau so long to
pick up Haliburton full court? It feels kind of basic TIBs.
Speaker 8 (23:44):
What was going on? Well, look there's a lot there too.
What took him so long to play more of his bench?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Here you go?
Speaker 8 (23:49):
Okay, that's another thing I listened to on the broadcast.
I heard Landry Shammitt cheers from the garden, faithful, do
you know what has to happen for there to be
Landry Shammit cheers down? Twenty Landry Shammitt has to play.
That's what has to happen, and so we are seeing
him go deeper into his rotation. We're seeing him pick
up Halburton. As you said, he's getting a little tweaky
an tickery there, which is not the TIBs style. But
(24:10):
you know, look, we said the first couple of games
of the series, it felt like he was being out
coached by Rick Carlisle. And there's no shame in that.
Rick Carlisle is a champion, a Hall of Fame coach.
Tom Thibodeau obviously an exceptional long tenured coach, but it's
nice to see him also tinkering and sort of seeing
what he can do with this team because it's a
fascinating series as we go.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah, so this is a tough one, but like you know,
I know the players and coaches. We don't listen to
the media, tune it out. I wonder Tibodau made so
many changes. I wonder if he heard like there's been
chalk hey, Michael Malone could be the next coach of
the next like TIBs wasn't pushing the right buttons. Do
you think that there was some outside noise that changed
things or DC analytics. I don't know.
Speaker 7 (24:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (24:49):
I don't think Tom, I don't think Tibbs really pays
a lot of attention to what so and so in
the New York Post is saying, like, it's just not.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
How I do.
Speaker 8 (24:58):
Yeah, look, I do think that players hear it a
lot more. You're absolutely right. And look, the thing about
TIBs is interesting. When things were looking like Dacey but
like rougher than expected in that Piston series, there were
people around the league being like, man, if they get
upset against Detroit and they lose in the first round,
Tom could lose his job. And we are way obviously
past that now he will be for regardless of the
(25:21):
outcome of Saturday night's game, Tom Thibadeau will be fine
and he will be the coach of the New York
next All.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Right, I want to play some sound here from Pascal
Siakam last night.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Take a listen, and I'm curious your thoughts on it.
Speaker 12 (25:33):
They played harder than us. I think I think they
played harder than us. You know, loose balls, like reboundce
like all that. How is that what you mean he's
talking about they played harder than us. It's okay, we
played harder, but they played Harder's what's your point.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
I don't get it that happens in the game. Do
it as basketball?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You're good?
Speaker 7 (26:01):
You're good, bro, You're looking for something.
Speaker 8 (26:05):
I know.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
I'm damn no, no, But I'm telling you though I
told you. What else? Do you want me to tell you?
What about you telling me?
Speaker 4 (26:19):
So?
Speaker 7 (26:19):
Go ahead?
Speaker 8 (26:21):
Who's this guy?
Speaker 7 (26:22):
Who's this guy?
Speaker 4 (26:23):
All right? First of all, Rachel, I love that I
know the reporter in question, Greg Doyle. I don't want
to blast. I got whatever irrelevant. I do wonder, though,
is this the first sign that maybe pressure is getting
to the Pacers because didn't like the line of questioning that,
like we got out played and he was pushing back,
and I don't know that Pascal Siakam has showed anything
(26:44):
like that in the press conference all season, So I
wonder if the pressures maybe getting to them or is
this am I reaching here?
Speaker 8 (26:50):
Well, I like what he said when he said, what
do you mean we did play hard? We just played harder?
I like that part because like to pretend that these
are only level athletes, to pretend that anyone else there
in the Eastern Conference Finals isn't trying. Ess I'm saying
that's what Greg said, but I mean, it's just such
a crazy sort of notion. I hear fans say sometimes,
of course they were trying. Interesting was not their night.
(27:10):
I do think the pressure is now on them, though,
whether it started in the postgame press conference or whether
it extends to Saturday night. I know that they played
a Game seven in Madison Square Garden last year. I
know that I remember that. However, that game was not
a pressure game because the Knicks were so battered and bruised.
They were wheeling og Anobi out there practically at like
(27:31):
a walker under the basket, like everybody was hurt. You
knew the Pacers are winning that game. This game, this
game six at home, with a Game seven in the
garden looming and teams relatively at full strength. That's the pressure.
And I think this is where we will see where
the rubber meets the road with these Pacers.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
All right, We're gonna come back from break with Rachel.
I'm gonna tell her why I've got the Knicks winning
Game six.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
I'm shocking here.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Don't know if they got a better chance to win
the finals than the Facers.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
We'll be back after this.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
One. More heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app, search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Welcome back, Rachel Nicholson Studio talking to NBA Mix.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Triumphant last night the Big Game six.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
So, Rachel, the last time I can remember a big
team coming back from down three to one besides the
Cavs Warriors was that Warriors team that won seventy three games.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
They were down three to one to the Thunder.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
They went on the road in Game six and Clay
went for forty one hit eleven threes. Do you think
the Knicks have somebody on that roster who can deliver
a Clay type performance.
Speaker 8 (28:44):
On the road. Look, the series is very close. In fact,
if you look at the point differential, the Knicks are
actually ahead. I scored more points in this series than Indiana.
If Game one had gone differently, we would be having
a very different conversation. And ten things had to happen
for Game one to go the way it did. And
I'm not saying the Pacers got lucky. Seven of those
ten things were things the Pacers did, but it still
(29:07):
required ten things, right. So that's how close the Knicks are.
That's how close this series is. And I don't have
any question that it's possible they could win the next
two games. I just think it's hard to win three
in a row against an evenly matched opponent. They've won
the first of those three, but can they win the
next two? And I to your point, does it take
(29:27):
a Clay Thompson like forty point performance? Someone shoot the
lights out? And by the way, the thing we forget
about that game in game six, Clay, he still had
Steph Curry scoring.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
He did next to it.
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Yeah, it's not as if he like he did it
all by himself. So it's like, oh yeah, man, jaylen Bruns,
you can drop fifty. He can, But then who else
is there? And that's where we get back into the
Karl Anthony Towns conversation, A conversation I know you have
had plenty, both on the show and with your friends
in the group chat. And what I loved about what
we saw last night from Kat and which would give
me hope if I was in Knicks fans, is that
he was in full Bodega cat mode. He was scratching
(29:59):
and crawl, you know, all the things that you want
to see him do, playing so physical face to the basket,
being aggressive, if he is that kind of player, if
he can be that consistent, If Jalen Brunston not only
lights it up offensively but also plays decent defense, which
he has not been playing for all of this series,
but certainly played last night, That's where you start to
be like, oh, could they have a Game six? Could
(30:20):
they have a Game seven? That kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
All right, so before we get to oksee everybody's favorite
team the New Darling. So you know, there's this whole
big small market narrative around the league, and I just wonder,
like we've seen changes in the league with the CBA.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
They want small market teams to thrive.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Right, They've adjusted the CBA so if you draft a superstar,
he's incentivized to stay with you.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And now we've got the Aprons, and I'm reading about.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
The Minnesota Timberwolves apparently like they're not gonna be able
to afford everybody Randall, They're gonna lose Alexander Walker, Like this.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Is what the league wants. Seven different champs in the
seven years parody. But Rachel, I go back to the
twenty tens.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Or team however you call it. I love the super
team era, right, I mean it was like stacked teams.
I don't care if they're in Cleveland or Miami or
Golden State.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Like to me, I love that. I know you've been
around the league forever, but like who do.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
You did you prefer the Super League super teams or
do you prefer now with like everybody has a chance.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
It's just important to think back through who's making these decisions.
Could you think about what the league wants? It's not
really Adam Silver in the league office.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
He has bosses.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Adam Silver's bosses are the thirty owners, right, and the
thirty owners they want parody. Yes, they want more than
three or four teams in it, because guess what if
there's only three or four teams in it, then twenty five,
twenty six the teams they don't have a shot. They
want seven champions in seven years because that means more
of them have a chance to hoist up a championship trophy.
So that is who is making these decisions. That's who's
(31:46):
making the rules about the aprons and all of this
other stuff. And yeah, they want to incentivize players to
stay in markets where they can't necessarily grab and attract
free agents. But I just think it kind of it
goes in cycle. When we have dynasties, it's frankly good
for the league in terms of people outside the game,
because that's what attracts non basketball fans. After a few
(32:08):
years of Steph Curry and the Warriors winning, your grandmother
knows who Steph Curry is, exactly When there's a different
champion every year, your grandmother does not have time to
learn who Nikolayokich or Sga is. And as I've said
on this network, some grandmas know who Nikolaiokich's and I
plawed those grandmas, but it's not the same. It's not
the same. So I think that's what you're feeling a
little bit. If you are a fan, if you are
(32:29):
an in it everyday basketball fan, I think you probably
like that there is a little more parody because your
team might be able to get there.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And that's so who are we catering to the twenty
five billionaire owners who own teams and want a profit
or the casual fans, the grandma's or the diehards who
are going to watch regardless whether it's a super team
or Denver winning the title or a small market.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
It's and you read the newspaper. We cater to billionaires
in this country. That's what we do.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Oh no, I like that.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
So let me ask along that line, like, do you
I think OKAC is set up for a dynasty? Because
I will say, Rachel, we heard this about Denver when
they want oh Murray and Jokichen there prod Yeah, And
we heard this about Boston amazing roster.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Now we're hearing the same about OKAC. And I'm like,
I've heard this before.
Speaker 8 (33:13):
Look the advantage OKC has and the reason everyone is
so excited is because they are a young team with
players playing on smaller rookie contracts. Because it will be
a couple of years until some of their younger players
like Jaylen Williams Chut Holmgren needs to really get paid,
they will have the chance to keep this team together.
SGA's super Max doesn't kick in right away that kind
of thing. Boston was certainly set up, even though they
(33:36):
were into the second Apron. They were set up to
be a team because they kept their guys who could
win a couple of championships. They just had some bad play,
first of all against the next and then also some
bad luck with the Tatum injury. If the Oklahoma City
Thunder continue as they are, and all of the assets
that they have, that's the other ingredients all of this drafts. Yes,
they are set up for a run. But to your point,
(33:58):
this is such a competitive Western co it is ridiculous.
And now we're talking about rumors that Giannis is going
to now join us. Just getting out of the West
is going to be so hard for so many teams,
including even the Thunder. Even if they win the title
this year, even if they look unstoppable, they will still
have to go through such a gauntlet next year.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And I'll add, like I had to look this up,
but the second highest paid player on the Thunder is
Isaiah Hartenstein.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, thirty million dollars. Like wow, that is a crazy roster.
So let me one more thing on SGA.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
So Jeff T, I'm sure you're familiar with his work,
said that SGA has saved the league with his mid
range assassin stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
I agree with some of that. The mid ranges back
is interesting because Brunson's doing the same thing. But saving
the NBA of Rachel does the NBA need saving?
Speaker 8 (34:47):
No? I mean, look, everything in our hot take world
is sort of so extreme. You know, the NBA is
on death store og. SGA has come and nursed us
back to how look. I like Jeff by the way,
but yes, I think that there's no question that there's
a little bit more mid range game in the NBA.
I have been saying for years, Yes, three is more
than two, but two is more than zero. So if
(35:09):
you don't have a good three to take, take the
two because two is more than zero. And I think
we are getting a little bit of that back. Everything
is swings right. So when analytics became so effective, people
were like, only do this, only do that, And now
we're seeing a little bit of swings back of like
a little flexibility within some games. Then Boston Celtics, by
the way, which will still take only three, is and
shoot you, try to shoot you out of the building.
So not every team is the same. I think SGA
(35:32):
is a good player because he is a good player.
It is not because he is taking mid range shots. Yes,
he is very good at them, and he's taking them
and he's using them effectively, but he's doing so many
other things on the court effectively two and that is
what is powering this team. He's a great defender. I mean,
it's not just oh, that one shot that's saving the NBA.
And that's what SGA does. He does a lot of things.
Speaker 7 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
So the Pacers were in the Eastern Conference finals last year. Yes,
the Thunder were the number one seed I think in
the West last year. Neither of them got Smith's Day
games this past season. Will we see either of them
on Christmas next year?
Speaker 8 (36:04):
Rachel? I mean, look, certainly the NBA champion has to
play in christ are we sure? And I would think
that the NBA finalist plays on Christmas as well. But look,
the league is programming for the grandma's that day, huh right?
They want who does your whole entire family, not just
you who normally sits on the couch at nine forty
five at night addicted to the NBA, But who does
your whole family that's there on Christmas want to watch play?
(36:27):
And I don't care how they finish, as long as
Stiff Steph and Lebron and those guys and KD are
still in the leadue U huh, they will be playing
on Christmas Day because that is who the larger extended
family wants.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
So someone smart in our meeting this morning compared this
Okac Thunder team I'm pushing there. They're boring, no good
sound bites the mid range. I don't hate them, you know,
I just I'm bored by them.
Speaker 8 (36:52):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
And then someone said they're the Spurs two point zero,
just like Tim Duncan Manu Parker. They didn't give crazy
sound bites. Their coach actually gave the best, and they
weren't flashy. There was no in your face dunks, no
Anthony Edwards stuff. And I said, that's not Are they
Spurs two point zero?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Is there the potential for that?
Speaker 8 (37:09):
I think they're pretty different. I mean this has that
more feel of like that young college team that's a
lot of fun, without as many individuals sort of huge
media standouts the way Anthony Edwards is or something like that.
Cha jels herselves in. Alexander has a ton of personality.
He has got swag for days. When you see him
walk into the arena. I wish he would wear some
of that stuff in the press conferences after the game,
(37:30):
because he is one hundred percent stylist. He's got the
whole look going. He's just not as loud a guy
and he plays in Oklahoma City. I think this is
a fun team to watch and it's okay to have
a finals or have a team in the finals. That
is for the Hoopeats, that is for the authentic basketball fans.
Sometimes that's okay. It's not good for the league if
(37:52):
that happens all the time, if there isn't a team
or a player, that's the larger public who aren't day
to day NBA fans can't relate to that. That's not
good for the NBA. They need everybody to watch the finals.
But once in a while, it is okay to have
if you know, you know, yes star, if you know
you know team. It makes fans feel good, right, It
makes you feel like you can tell your friends, Oh,
you don't know this about them, but bah and about
(38:14):
the Thunder. You should get to like them, Jason, because
here's what they are with the regular season in the
playoffs so far this season. Adding them together, they're eighty
and eighteen. They're eighty and eighteen. You know what they
are against the Eastern Conference, they're twenty nine in one.
So it's great to watch this Pacers next series. I
hope all series go to seven, So I hope this
series goes to seven. Both of these teams are really
(38:37):
fun for me. I hope both of them win if
it was possible, It's all great. They're not going to
be the savorst of the finals. Trying to hold my
tongue a little bit and not say they're going to
get crushed. But I celebrate your wins boys over the
next few days, because I'm not sure it's going to continue.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
So if my wife says, hey, we got a Saturday
night thing with this other couple we got we're going
to dinner and it's game two of the finals, do
I say, hey, I can't go.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
I gotta watch the finals.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Now. If it was Lebron versus Curry right out, I'm
watching the game right But if it's okay, see Indiana,
I gotta be honest, I'll catch highlights Like is that
okay to say?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Can I say that as an NBA fan?
Speaker 8 (39:13):
Look, Rachel, look look again. You don't make more money
personally as a fan if a high market or high
sort of media team is in it, you don't. It
does not affect you. So it is okay to feel like, Okay,
this is a smaller one or this is a bigger one.
It's not gonna hit your bottom line or your wallet
as a fan, right, So it's okay, we just don't
(39:35):
have to have so much handwringing over this. You know,
if the rating is a little lower or a little higher,
if you're a fan, it does not matter to you
at all. Right, So just sometimes there's gonna be huge,
big stars and fireworks. Sometimes it's going to be more
of a like authentic if you know, you know series
and players, that variety I actually think is good for
the game, and maybe you know, so they'll adopt some
(39:57):
people who didn't think they would stay home Saturday night.
But Tyres Haliburton, Man, if he's the one who's in
there and he hits one of those if in game
one he hits another, oh my god, how did he
do that last second come from behind shot, you might
be canceling those plans on game two.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
By the way, Halloween night, everybody I know had a
TV on at Halloween parties for the World Series Game one?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yes, remember and that ended of course last one. Real quick.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
If I said Kevin Durant winds up in Minnesota, they
do some sign in trade not read whatever?
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Would that shock you?
Speaker 8 (40:28):
Eight?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Anthony Edwards and Durant are are friends.
Speaker 8 (40:31):
I mean, would not check me at all I and
thinks the world revolves around KD and so would not
shock me at all. Certainly, there's been a lot of
reporting out there that the Wolves were hotly pursuing a
Kevin Durant trade as we got to the deadline this
past season, So yeah, it does, it wouldn't surprise me
at all. I mean, the irony is Kevin Durant, who
is you know, Hall of Famer upon Hall of Famers
and all of the things, Multiple Rings finals, MVP is
(40:53):
going to have to wait until the Jannis and Sukuko
situation settles to see where he is going to go,
because any team that in the Ken Durant chase is
at least going to kick the tires on a Yannis chase.
And I just think for say Houston, which is a
team that we hear a lot as sort of maybe
a KD destination, well they're also maybe a y Honist destination.
So we have to see a Doesianist want to leave Milwaukee,
(41:15):
because I'm not sending him away unless he asks for
a trade. If he says he wants to leave, where
is he going to go? Where are the Bucks going
to send him? Again? If I'm the Bucks and I've
learned from the Drew Holiday experience. I am not sending
him anywhere where he could end up east. And I
know they didn't send him to Boston, but nobody thought
he was playing in Portland. They were just sending him
to Portland as okay, great, you distributed him and then
(41:36):
he ended up being on the team that beat them
right and beat them out for another title. So they
are not going to send him east. They're going to
send him west, which means Kevin Durant has to wait
and see what happens. If Janis asks out, if the
Bucks trade him, if he goes somewhere that Katie was
also looking to go, then what happens to Kevin Durant.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, so he's kind of waiting. So Yannis could go Houston,
San Antonio? Is there a world where he stays east?
Obviously next would be difficult. But what about Miami?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
I keep hearing that's a team to watch.
Speaker 8 (42:06):
Certainly Miami covets him. They would give all of the
things on the cupboard for Yanni Sentopo. It's just is
there enough in the cupboard right compared to some of
what those other teams. And again, if you're the books
I would think very hard about dealing him to a
team in the Eastern Conference if I'm yest, By the way,
I would think very hard about leaving the Eastern Conference.
And when he has this decision to make of do
(42:28):
I stay in Milwaukee or not? I think there's a
lot of sort of basketball people who look at the
cap sheet and look at the say he can't win
the next few years. What's the point he should go
somewhere else. I get it, I understand, and I agree
he cannot win in Milwaukee the next few years. They
do not have the resources or assets. But there is
more than winning. I know that it's a dirty thing
to say in sports.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
There is.
Speaker 8 (42:48):
And by the way, you're not guaranteed to win anywhere
else you go. Right, the Boston Celtics were set up
to win and they're not even in the last two
rounds of the playoffs. So you have to think about everything.
Do you have a chance to win, yes, But you
also have to think about where do you play, what's
your day to day life, what city are you in,
and what's the love and relationship with that city? And
(43:08):
are you going to have more fun playing basketball and
winning more basketball games? If you are a winning is
everything guy in the Eastern Conference playing for they can't
win at all, Milwaukee Bucks. Then you are battling it
out in the West where every night is going to
be a war, and you can have a winning record
and still end up like battling for the plant. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
No, great stuff. Rachel Nichols knows everything about the league.
Sorry to keep you so long, right because it was phenomenal.
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