June 4, 2025 • 36 mins
Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin reacting to the Knicks firing their head coach Tom Thibodeau despite New York having their best season in over 2 decades. He believes Kevin Durant is no longer a winning player in today's NBA as the offseason approaches and the Suns are looking to offload the 36-year-old former MVP. Jason also talks to NBA analyst Mitch Lawrence about what led to Thibodeau's dismissal and the top candidates to be his replacement for a New York team that's looking to get over the hump and into the NBA Finals for the first time since 1999.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello, and welcome back to the Herd. It's me Jason
McIntyre here in La on a Wednesday, and boy do
we have a spicy showhead. I'm joined as always by
Alex Curry. Alex, I had several people ask me about
the ghost topic yesterday you run away. I never fired
(00:49):
up about ghost.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
No, okay, Jami. The way you see it is like
you can like white sheet scary. No, I'm talking about
like energy, So you can feel energy. And it's and
he's had a lot of people bring it up to
me too, and it's all women who can feel it
see it. We can't say having no, but women have
like strong inflicitions. I mean we're basically like gods.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Great pretty much. Yeah, I don't see the paper towel
being empty it's not the toilet paper. I don't even
see that stuff. It's not like what cartoons and movies
Scooby Doo terrified. All right, so listen, Obviously we got
to start the show with the big news in the
NBA yesterday my New York Knicks, who finally seemed to
get their act together right, greatest season this century, and
(01:33):
they fired their coach, Tom Thibodeau. He gets fired yesterday
and what like the middle of the show, Alex and
I were stunned. That was closer to the end of
the show. And one interesting nugget trickled out overnight regarding
how this happened. Because remember a lot of folks, myself included,
thought it maybe you just bring Tiboteou back and you
run it back, you know, you guys two games away
(01:55):
from the NBA Finals, took down the defending champion Celtics.
I'll running back. But this nugget trickled out of the
exit interviews. Apparently, when the Knicks were interviewing Josh Hart,
Michal Bridges, Jalen Brunson, one certain person in the organization
happened to sit in on those exit interviews, and that
(02:17):
was James Dolan, who's largely been a ghost the last
five years. Do you like that play on words there? Uh,
Dolan has not been around the Knicks because he's been
running the sphere in Vegas and getting that off the ground.
And obviously that's a great win for mister Dolan. But
sitting in on the exit interviews and all of a
sudden boom, the head coach has gone, you have to
(02:37):
wonder did he hear something he didn't like? Well, we
know that that just something did not come from Jalen Brunson,
who staunchly defended his coach. After the Knicks were eliminated
by the Pacers. We had a reporter say, well, what
do you think about TIBs is you got to make
it back? And Brunson was like, is that a real question?
We know Brunson liked Tips. He's known Tip since he
(02:59):
was a young guy. Rick Brunts and his father who's
done all with the Knicks staff played for the Knicks
and like that. There's a lot of internal stuff. Brunson
and Thibodeaux were a copacetic. But what we do know
is that Josh Hart had beef at points this season
with Thibodeau and Mikhale Bridges as recently as the middle
of March piped up, why aren't we playing our bench?
(03:21):
Why are we playing so many minutes? What's going on here?
I mean? And the numbers bear it out. The Knicks
starters averaged more points per game than any other starting
unit in the last forty five years in the NBA.
Tibbs does not trust his bench, right, that's very well known.
Happened in Chicago. Unfortunately, after that you sawt Derek Rose
wear down, you start Joe Kim Noah like these guys'
(03:43):
careers Luel Dang. Their careers kind of ended early because
Tibbs ran him into the ground, and the NIXT players
clearly pushed back on that. Bridges actually mentioned in March,
Yeah we got Landry Shammitt, why is any playing more? Well? Tibbs,
I guess saw the light and started playing Landry Shammon
in the payes. But unfortunately it was a little bit
too late. Landry sham couldn't save the day. So now
(04:08):
you have to wonder, like, does this change the trajectory
of say Carl Anthony Towns. Now we know he is
a TIBs guy dating back to Minnesota, is he all
of a sudden on the trading block. What happens Mikhail
Bridges who has had for five first round picks and
is looking for a big money extension. Do you pay him?
Do you try to get three guys to create him
(04:28):
and the aggregate next year? Does this mess everything up?
But most importantly, where do the Knicks head for a
head coach? And I do want to quickly defend tives.
Just give me a second. There was a nineteen year
stretch where the Knicks won one playoff series. Okay, Thibodeau
has won four in the last three seasons. He has
(04:50):
been successful. Look at this under Tom Thibodeaux, five seasons,
four playoff appearances, and you see that winning record there.
I know this is gonna be surprising. He has more
wins with the Knicks than pat Riley. It's just a
mind blowing stat Like, Tom Thibodau's been great. And we
should also add before Timbs came on board, eighteen seasons,
(05:12):
twelve different head coaches, so they finally get their act
together and now we're back in the head coaching cycle
for the Knicks. Who's gonna be the next head coach? Well,
you know, at the top of next hour, I'm gonna
reveal my five top names to replace Thibodeau, and then
a really spicy name that I haven't really seen bandied about.
(05:32):
It doesn't seem realistic, but I think there could be
some potential there. What's gonna happen next with the Knicks? Now,
I do want to pivot to a really explosive report
in The Athletic about Kevin Durant, and oh boy, folks,
it don't look good for Kevin Durant. Let me start
here by saying, Kevin Durant is one of the fifteen
(05:54):
greatest players in the history of basketball, full stop. We
all agree. The guy on an MVP, carried OK seed
to the finals, goes to Golden State, wins two finals MVPs.
His resume speaks for itself. Kevin Durant has had an
incredible career. It's inarguable that. Being said, we know, sports
(06:15):
are what have you done for me lately? And in
some ways, you know, Kevin Durant is the guy who
used to be an a list actor and get all
the first look at scripts, and now he's not getting
any looks. I mean Nick Cage comes to mind. You know,
won an Academy Award for leaving Las Vegas. What has
that guy done lately? Where's Nick Cage the last ten years?
Can he open a movie? No shot? I mean Will Smith.
(06:38):
Will Smith has an unbelievable movie resume. I mean, I
Am Legend is like probably one of my top ten
movies of all time. I love Will Smith as an
actor again, Like, is he getting any good looks anymore?
What are they starting filming Bad Boys for? You know,
like that's where Kevin Durant is in his career. I
don't know if anybody wants him. And I know what
(07:00):
the trade deadline, there were teams involved and talking to
the Suns. You had reports. I'm gonna put those in
air quotes, reports that five teams wanted Kevin Durant. Well,
the latest report in the Athletic is that the Phoenix
Suns keep calling the Houston Rockets and the Suns keep
lowering their asking price. Kevin Durant is thirty six, and
(07:21):
we know he's still a bucket. Okay, that's that's obvious.
Kevin Durant, he can give you twenty five points a night.
That's great. Yeah, so can Moe Wagner and Jalen Green.
I mean, these guys are ten years younger and they
can score almost what Kevin Durant does. And Kevin Durant
is also kind of an ornery, prickly fellow who oh,
by the way, has not been great in the playoffs lately. Guys,
(07:45):
the super team sons, yes, d Book Durant and Bradley
Beal qualifies as as super team. That's three all NBA
players joining forces. They didn't make the playoffs this year, Okay.
Kevin Durant has been swept in two of his last
three trips to the playoffs, and yes, both were with
super teams. Need I remind you the super team fiasco
(08:07):
in Brooklyn, which is really deserves its own thirty for
thirty it was a Hindenburg. Okay. They got swept in
his last playoff appearance by Jason Tatum and the Celtics,
Like Kevin Durant in the postseason, is not what we
he used to be. Again, you could love KD and
he's a bucket, but he's turning thirty seven in September.
(08:28):
Here's Rick Buker earlier this week talking about the trickiness
of how to move Kevin Durant.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
The tricky part is are you just getting him as
a one year rental or is he going to sign
an extension? Do you want to sign him to extension?
What does that extension look like. There's a lot of
tricky parts to that. To your point, because of Kd's age.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I just don't know what the market is for Kevin Durant.
So I started looking at the standings and teams that
could be close and looking at Kevin Durant's fifty four
million dollar contract next year, and yeah, okay, sure he's
gonna give you twenty five twenty seven points a game.
He don't want to be a leader. So if you
expect Kevin Durant to go to a young team and
(09:09):
maybe be that leader, be that agent of change who's
gonna take them up the next step, and I'll toss
one out there. You know, Kevin Durant went to the
University of Texas, He loves Austin, has a very big
affinity for the city. Hey, the San Antonio Spurs, could
that work? Wem Benyama dieron Fox Kevin Durant, Maybe that's something.
(09:31):
And then you look at what the Spurs are and
you're like, okay, well we're not giving up Stefan Cassel
for to rent Kevin Durant for one year? Is wem
Ben Yama and KD? Is that doing anything in the West?
And I look around the Houston Rockets, folks, they would
rather chase Giannis than go after Kevin Durant. I mean,
I don't you know. A couple years ago, Kevin Durant.
(09:51):
You know, he grew up in the DC area. Here's
a legend in Maryland growing up. And I floated the idea,
why wouldn't he go to the Wizards, you know, and joinforce,
would like John Wall and Bradley Beal. This is way back,
and it's like Wizards are one of the worst teams
in the league right now. I mean, is that the
kind of thing where we're gonna see Kevin Durant end
up on a bad team? Somebody in our morning meeting floated,
(10:12):
what about the Atlanta Hawks, KD, Trey Young, Jalen Johnson
coming back from I don't know. And again, I'm a
huge Kevin Durant fan. Yes, we've had our online beefs
a few times over the years, but I love him
as a basketball player. I don't love the I just
want to hoop I don't want to be a leader thing.
I mean, could we see him in Detroit to help
(10:35):
the Pistons get over the top. But then you look
at the Pistons salaries and it's like, Okay, are we
dumping any of our good young players? Hey, we need
Onsar Thompson. You're not getting him. Not for Kevin Durant
for one freaking year. And the more we talk about
Kad and you read stories about the Sun's lowering their
asking price, you start to wonder, like she's o. The
Son's gonna have to attach a draft pick, assuming they
(10:58):
have any left to get off Kevin duran Are we
in a world where Kevin Durant is close to ending
his career like Patrick Ewing did with the Seattle Sonics.
You guys remember a Lajahwan wearing a Raptor's jersey. I mean,
Karl Malone is sitting on the bench with the Lakers
like we're not This is like a year or two away.
(11:18):
Maybe for Kevin Durant, He's either gonna have to have
a big reality check and understand, dude, I'm not that
guy anymore. Or Kevin Durant's gonna have to change his
ways and say, you know what, I will be a
leader for a young team because if I need twenty
five points, I'll go get Tyler Hero. Sorry, I don't
think Kevin Durant's defense he is that superior to what
(11:39):
you're getting at fifty four million playing the position he does.
And I'll leave you with this, like, again, I don't
want to be seen as taking jabs at Kevin Durant,
but at this stage in the game, like, what do
you do with him? Is there a world where nobody
wants Kevin Durant. As shocking as that sound, I think
(12:01):
we're getting close to Kevin Durant not really getting the
interest that he thought he would. So he goes super
teams and now he goes kind of out with a whimper.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 3 (12:21):
Welcome back into the Herd. We got to go to
New York now to figure out who put the knife
and Tom Thibodeau's back. So to Mitch Lawrence, who's covered
the Knicks forever. NBA writer host Sirius XM, He's got
an amazing background there as you can see. All right, Mitch,
So we were talking during the commercial break and you
described the Garden as a pit full of vipers. Can
(12:44):
you kind of break down what happened? Because Thibodeau just
led the Knicks to their best season this century and
then he gets asked.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Yeah, I mean he had the best playoff run since
nineteen ninety nine, and the fans were partying like it
was nineteen ninety nine, and all of a sudden, he's
the guy who's the scapegoat. It is Listen, the Garden
front office is full of vipers. These are guys who
have their own agendas, whatever they are. They leak stuff
to the media. They want certain people and certain people out,
(13:14):
and they had it in for Tom. It goes beyond basketball, Jason.
It goes beyond he didn't develop a bench. It goes
beyond guys didn't know their roles. It goes beyond you know,
you didn't have an offensive imagination. This goes beyond all
that stuff. And now we're gonna see who Jim Dolean
the owner, you know, who gets his ear and who
he talks to and who they settle on as the
(13:36):
next coach and say, this is what I when I was,
you know, based in New York and that the New
York Daily News doing twenty one years of NBA columns.
This was familiar ground for anybody who dealt with the
Knicks and dealt with Jim Dole. It is a it's
a it's a treacherous place if you're a coach, because
you're the guy who's the face of the franchise. They
don't let Leon Rose talk. Dolan doesn't talk. So Tom
(13:59):
Thibodeau was the guy who had a talk. They don't help.
Nobody's held accountable in terms of Leon Rose or Jim Dolan,
and you know, stuff like this happens. It's a very
it's run differently than any other organization, and it's been
unsuccessful in a lot of ways. You know, it's the
anti Spurs, anti Miami, whatever you want to call it.
(14:20):
They do things their own way, and for the most part,
before Time came on board, they were irrelevant and a
dumpster fire. And they I think Nick fans probably fear
now that's the road they're headed back on.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, especially if you don't make the right higher So
who would you say has the biggest poll or the
most poll in making the higher Is it Dolan who's
kind of been out of the mix. You know he
was with the Sphere in Vegas building? That is it
Leon Rose? Do the players have us say here? We
know it's the players league. I mean, Jalen Brunson couldn't
(14:53):
save TIBs, But how do you break that down?
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Well, Jalen Jalen Brunson liked TIBs and they didn't listen
to him. So you also have to wonder what that
means for him, especially if they get rid of his father,
who's on the bench. I think that has to be
a concern for Nick fans too.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
Listen.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
I think it's gonna probably be a few people. It'll
be Leon Rose. They'll run it by Dolan. Dolan, will
you know, do his checks? It's hard to tell. It's
because nobody really talks publicly like what they should do
is have Leon Rose out there today to say this
is why we fired Tom Tibodall. I'm gonna take questions
(15:31):
and answers, and by the way, this is what we're
looking for in our next coach. Give people an idea
of what they're going for. But the Knicks don't do
things like that. Like other teams. They don't make people
you know that. Pat Riley goes public after his team
gets wiped off the court against Cleveland and he owns
up to stuff. The Knicks don't do that, so you
never know their game plan. So it's very hard to
(15:53):
say exactly how it's all gonna run, or who's gonna
have the power, who's gonna you know, who wants who
out there? It's oh, you're always dealing with a lot
of mystery at the garden.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, and it feels like, I don't know if you
use the word accountability, but like Leon Rose, like, shouldn't
you step up and meet the media and talk about
this now? I mean that seems like the way we
should do it.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
No, everybody does it that way in the league. I
mentioned pat Riley, Brad Stevens when thing went south for Boston.
This year they're spending champs. He met with the media.
I think he had Daryl Morey and Nick Nurse meet
in Philadelphia. Nobody had a worst year expectation wise than
probably Philadelphia. Jim Dolan doesn't want his people, like Leon
(16:36):
Rose and other gms before him, to speak publicly. He
kind of has an ant, you know, you hear teams
having a you know, a media policy. He has an
anti media policy. That's where as long as I you know,
for the longest time, and a lot of it dates
back to that sexual harassment case and you know, post
that in twenty oh seven, that's already eighteen years where
Isaiah Thomas and the Knick's gotten in big troubles dollan
(17:00):
twelve million dollars. After that, the league basically held sway
David Stern over the Knicks. That's when they hired Donnie Walsh.
Schindlan listen to the NBA then, but since then, he
he does things his way. He's not going to have
Leon Rose at all talk to the media. The next
coach will be the face of the franchise, just like
(17:21):
Tom was Tom Tibodau, which adds to, you know, the
pressure of the job in New York. Now you're the coach.
Not only you have the coach the team prepared a team.
Now you're also the face and the voice of the franchise.
Puts a lot of pressure on that next coach. Besides
the fact that obviously the next coach has a very
high bar. You got to come in, you got to
win eleven playoff games.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
Because Tom just won y ten.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
I'm gonna throw some names at you. You tell me
your thoughts. But first, the Phoenix Suns have just announced
that they have hired CALVS assistant Jordan Ott. You know
whoever that is. I don't know that that is a
move based on what the Knicks are doing. But there
is a guy, Johnny Bryant, whose name has been bandied
about as a potential Knicks candidate. I don't think you
(18:06):
go from Tom Thibodeau to Johnny Bryant, do you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
I don't think so either, but that doesn't mean it
can't happen. And he seems to be the front runner
right now. He was in New York. Now you mentioned
Jordan not getting the Phoenix job. Johnny Bryant was also
up for that job. So now he works in Cleveland
Fair Kenny Atkinson, but he had been in New York.
He's familiar with the front office. People are familiar with him.
(18:32):
He's got people who will hope he gets his job.
He has people who, from my understanding, who hope he
doesn't get the job. Listen, if you think you're a
championship contender, and I don't think the Knicks are.
Speaker 7 (18:43):
I think they're a decent cut.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Below with that roster, with their two best players being
one way offensive players and defensive liabilities. I'm talking about
Jalen Brunton and Karl Anthony Towns. You've built around those guys.
I don't think he can bring in a guy like
a Johnny Bryant who's never been a head coach certainly
you know, and and all of a sudden entrust him
(19:06):
to actually exceed what Tom Thibodeau did. I think that's
an impossible spot for him. And I think that's the
thing that I think Nick fans have to be worried about.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, Michael Malone was fired by Denver maybe two months ago.
He feels like Thibodeau two point zero doesn't like to
play young guys, rides his starters like that was an
issue for Tibbs. I would cross Michael Malone off the
list of your thoughts just.
Speaker 7 (19:31):
Based on that.
Speaker 6 (19:32):
Well, I will say this, if you go back to
his Denver team and now he had JOK. I know
Sga is the MVP, but this is like back in
the Michael Jordan era, Macarl Malone won the MVP. We
all knew that Michael Jordan was the best player in
the world, just like now we know that Jokic is
the best player in the world. He only had a
bench of basically three guys, Jeff Green, Bruce Brown, and
(19:54):
Christian Brett.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
That's it. They won the title that way.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
So if you're hung up on this bench, nonsense that
he won't play your bench.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
I mean, think of it this way.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
To Tom Thibodeau, is he really the first coach in
the history of the NBA and maybe sports to get
fired because he didn't he didn't develop a bench.
Speaker 7 (20:14):
It's ab sur so, sir, look who's on his bench.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
Mike Malone had a great bench with those three players
versus what Tom Thibodeau had to work with. But anyway,
that's a whole different story. I would hire Mike Malone.
He knows New York. His father coached in New York.
I knew Brendan Malone when he was an assistant in
Syracuse when I started out in the newspaper racket in
nineteen eighties. I go back that far when Michael Malone
(20:38):
was running around and basically diapers.
Speaker 7 (20:39):
Yeah, I think he's the hell of a coach.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
Now ten years in Denver, long time, won a title,
Maybe got a little full of himself, that's what people say.
I don't know. I haven't talked to Mike since then.
But he's a very good coach. And let's not forget
where was he before he landed in Denver and did
a great job their first title ever. He was in Sacramento.
He did a great job there for a franchise that
(21:03):
continues to you know. I mean, that's just like total
dysfunction out there except for a few moments, right, except
for a very few moments. And Mike Malone did a
good job there. I think Nick fans would actually say,
you know what, if we got Mike Malone, yeah, we
can go places and not worry about what he did
with his bench in Denver.
Speaker 7 (21:22):
Just look at his accomplishments.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
The only thing, though, Jason, is is he gonna come
in You're gonna say, well, he had you know, let's
see how he does without.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yoga, without the best player. Yeah that's not all right.
Let me throw one more. He's currently coaching the Dallas
Mavericks and his name is Jesse Kidd. He played with
the Knicks. Obviously, he was not brought in uh to
talk about the Luca deal. He looked shell shocked at
the press conference afterward. Are the Nixon upgrade from the Maps?
Speaker 5 (21:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Jason Kid's an interesting name.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
It is an interesting name.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
You know, if you look at the Knicks in terms
of where they are in the East, you know, Indiana
is there now. Boston's not gonna have Tatum for probably
a year, but they're gonna be back. You've got Detroit
on the rise, or Orlando. We'll see what happens in
Milwaukee with Giannis. The Knicks, uh, you know they're gonna
(22:17):
they're probably gonna take a step back with a new coach.
I don't know how Jason. First of all, he has
a job in Dallas. Like you raised the point with
his roster, He's not gonna have Kyrie Irving for a while.
He'll have Anthony Davis. We know that Anthony Davis cannot
stay on the court at points, but.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
He's gonna get Cooper Flag.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
Right. It sounds like they're gonna keep that draft picking
up pick Cooper Flag. So it would have to be
some sort of a trade to get Jason Kidd. They're
gonna have to get some sort of compensation and who
knows what Nico Harrison and Patrick Dumont, the owner are thinking.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
These days about Jason Kidd. I have no idea.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
All I know is that the Maverick fans are still
I rate that Luka Doncis is a Laker that has
not gone away.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, Mitch Lawrence, NBA writers, serious, serious XM hosts. Great stuff.
I like the blue Knick's shirt turtleneck. Nice job, Mitch,
thanks a lot.
Speaker 7 (23:07):
Man, thanks for having me. Jason enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, interesting stuff. He's bullish on Michael Malone. Listen. I
was pushing Michael Malone's name a month ago when the
Knicks were struggling against Detroit, and I was like, I
don't know, if they can't get by Detroit, just get
TIBs out of here bringing Malone. Then they beat the
Celtics and I'm like, eh, just keep.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
TIBs one more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours
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Speaker 8 (23:36):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
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We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
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(23:58):
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(24:18):
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Speaker 3 (24:35):
We're back our number two here on the Herd. Jason
McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd. I'm joined today by Alex Curry, Alex,
you know NBA Finals start tomorrow. I know you're really excited.
And we haven't talked a lot about the Stanley Cup finals,
like here, hockey is happening this week or something like that. Yeah,
(24:58):
I mean we got something. I'm just kids.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
It's funny though, because obviously I used to work in hockey,
so I love it and I follow it. And I
was following the Kings playoff run. They got got booted
once again, yeah by the Edmonton Oilers.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
But yeah, it's similar.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
It's kind of having a similar feel to this NBA
Finals right now, where everyone's like, oh, yeah, the finals
are this way, opposed to like, oh my god, I
can't wait for this day because a final start.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So it's yeah, it's a rough one. We have a
really nice guest coming up in thirty minutes, Alexi Lawss,
US national soccer team legend, also a soccer agitator. Can
I call them that. I'm on a text thread with
some soccer dads and they're like, oh I can't stand
that Lawless. Oh my goodness. But first we got to
start here. Obviously, the Knicks fired Tom Thibodeau yesterday. Bit
(25:48):
of a shocker, and we decided to we come up
with five potential names to replace Tom Thibodeau. Now we
just had Mitch Lawrence on and he broke it down
in an interesting way. He's like, listen, man, MSG is
a pit full of vipers because it's so insular and
they don't talk to the media. Really, nobody knows who's
(26:09):
really making this decision. Like Leon Rose had hired his
guy Tibbs, Well, did Leon Rose fire his guy or
did Dolan step in? Is Jim Dolan back in charge
and he's gonna flex and throw his weight around, And
so there's a bit of a mystery as to will
Rose get his guy, Will the players have a say
we know it's a player's league, or is the owner
(26:30):
just going to steamroll everybody and say this is what
I want. So I came up with five guys and
then we'll have like a special mystery guy at the end,
which I'll go a little longer. But the first guy
I'd bring up is Mark Jackson. Nobody's talking about Mark
Jackson whatsoever. He's him on the right side. But listen,
this is the guy who was in Golden State for
the early Splash Brothers and he got run off. The
(26:53):
worst part for Mark Jackson was right after he got
run off, Steve Kerr made a little tweak right he
put Draymond Green into the death lineup. They want small ball,
and they made the jump to light speed, and the
Warriors never looked back. They became a dynasty. And depending
on who you talk to, it's like, oh, oh, Mark
Jackson couldn't figure it out. We needed Steve Kura do that. Now.
(27:16):
Mark Jackson is a legend in New York City, Okay,
born in Queens like myself, I thought I was a
point guard. He actually was a point guard, went to
Saint John's, legendary player at Saint John's. What with the Knicks,
mister shimmy, I mean, Mark Jackson needs no introduction. The
problem is he had some off court stuff that kind
(27:38):
of carried over and then the Warriors thing. Never he
never was able to rebound from that, and he never
got a second chance, which I think is kind of bs.
He went to be an announcer and then he got
shoved out of that. So Mark Jackson's just out there,
and my gut tells me Dolan, wanting to win over
the fans, is gonna bring in Mark Jackson for an interview.
I don't know if you'll get it, but he's on
the list. I think the next guy you got to
(28:00):
bring up is Michael Malone. Now, Michael Malone won a
title in Denver a couple of years ago, and we
talked with Mitch Lawrence a little while ago talking about
Thibodeau getting fired. He raved about Michael Malone.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
It's a treacherous place if you're a coach, because you're
the guy who's the face of the franchise. They don't
let Leon Rose talk. Dolan doesn't talk. So Tom Thibodeau
was the guy who had a talk. Nobody's held accountable
in terms of Leon Rose or Jim Dolan. It's run
differently than any other organization, and it's been unsuccessful in
a lot of ways. You know, it's the anti Spurs,
(28:35):
anti Miami, whatever you want to call it. They do
things their own way, and for the most part, before
Time came on board, they were irrelevant and a dumpster
fire and they I think Nick fans probably fear now
that's the road they're headed back on.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So if you listen closely, Mitch's like listen. They don't
like dealing with the media. Thibodeau did not like dealing
with the media. He just wouldn't give much, wouldn't talk
a lot. You know who doesn't mind mixing it up
with the media. Michael Malone. He'll go right back at
you guys. And you know why because he won a
title with Denver and he talked, He talked trash and
(29:12):
backed it up. Now, the interesting thing is I had
a Knicks fan. Tell me listen, who was yo kitch
when he came into the league. Second round pick? Give
me a break, Carl Anthony Towns. You don't think Michael
Malone could work with him and take his defense from
a D plus to a B minus? Could he get
him to a C plus? Michael Malone really did help.
(29:34):
You'll catch a lot. Why couldn't you do that with
Kat and I? You know, remember I was pushing Michael
Malone during the Detroit series. You know we could pull
that video if you really want to. I know you
don't care, but then I backed off when he beat
the Celtics, and I don't Malone really does feel like
Thibodeaux two point zero? All right, next name on the
list again. Kind of going off the board here, Steve
(29:55):
Nash anyone Steve Nash coached in Brooklyn. It's funny because
Steve Nash was great with the Warriors as like a
specialty coach. Kevin Durant loved him, and then Kevin Durant
pushed for him when he got to Brooklyn with Kyrie.
But what Kevin Durant didn't know is Kyrie Irving was
kind of sort of losing his mind at the time
(30:16):
and wanted nothing to do with Steve Nash. He famously
went on like an Instagram Live or whatever and was like,
KD and I with Riq, we don't even need a coach,
and I told the story how Steve Nash was in
New York. Kyrie said, oh, yeah, come to my place
to meet me. And Steve Nash in the rain, went
there and Kyrie just left him on the doorstep for
like twenty minutes, ringing the doorbell, just wouldn't answer it,
(30:38):
as like a hey man, I know you're the coach,
but I'm the guy I built this super team, and
it was like whoa. They got off on the wrong foot.
Nash did not last long in Brooklyn, but he's now
partnered with Lebron Lebron on a podcast, and we know
that worked out well for Lebron's last podcast partner, JJ Reddick.
Let's see who else we got? We got Mike Brown, anyone.
(31:01):
Mike Brown's kind of been around the league, smart guy,
I don't want to say, got Railroad in Sacramento, but
it just didn't really pan out for him. Obviously a
very good coach in Cleveland. He's been around the league.
Is considered a defensive guy, which is pretty good, especially
when you factor in how bad the Knicks defense was
(31:21):
against the Pacers. I believe they gave up one hundred
and twenty six points per game in the losses in
the series, and it's like that was Tibb's calling card.
He couldn't deliver. Can Mike Brown get the defense up
to stuff? And finally, I'm going off the board here.
Sam Cassell. Everybody knows him. Great celebration guy, Sam Cassell.
We won't talk about the celebration. Haliburton mimicked it, but
(31:43):
Cassell is known as a players coach. Colin always last
when I say this phrase. But Sam Cassell is a
cool guy. He's funny. He was a great point guard
and I do believe he could connect with these guys
in a way, Tibbs, who's sixty seven and much older
than Cassell. Tibbs didn't really connect with Bridges and Heart
and now that came out in the media, could Cassell
(32:05):
be the guy? So those are the five guys that
I think we'll certainly get interviews in Deep Looks. Michael
Malone obviously everybody loves that. Mike Brown. I haven't heard
as much about Nash. I don't know if I was
the first to float him yesterday right after it broke,
Sam Cassell and Mark Jackson. So now I'm gonna go
with the other guy. And I was not convinced of this,
And we had a heated four minute debate in the
(32:28):
meeting this morning about whether or not Jason Kidd is
a viable candidate for the next job. Jason Kidd was
the point guard with Carmelo Anthony when The Next had
a really good run ten years ago. The problem, of course,
is Jason Kidd is currently under contract with the Dallas Mavericks.
But let's be real, Jason Kidd may not love it
(32:53):
in Dallas. They get to the finals with Luca and
then don't consult Jay Kidd and they trade Luca to
the Lake and Jason Kidd, And we don't have video
of it, but if you look at the post Luca
trade press conference, Jason Kidd is staring straight ahead like
he saw a ghost. Yeah, we're doing one ghost reference
an hour people, And I don't I'm a Knicks fan.
(33:16):
I don't know if the Knicks next season is an
upgrade from the MAVs. Let me explain. Yes, the Knicks
are in the East, notatum Celtics pull back. Knicks are
gonna be one of the three best in the East.
Dallas gets Cooper Flag, they have Anthony Davis Gafford for now,
(33:37):
Derek Lively, PJ Washington, and Kyrie Irving's hurt and will
be out. I'm gonna generously say the All Star break
maybe March first, so there will be some struggles. Here's
why I think Dallas is interesting given the number one
pick of Cooper Flag. I believe they will be active
in free agency and they will be making trades. I
(33:59):
think gaff is gone. I think you could probably trade
Gafford to a team looking to off road salary. And
hello Drew Holliday and the Boston Celtics. So now, if
you're just looking at a playoff lineup in Dallas potentially
Drew Holliday, Kyrie Irving, PJ. Washington, Lively, an ad that's
maybe a truck in the West, and my main man,
(34:22):
Cooper Flag future NBA MVP. Cooper Flag would be your
sixth man, super Max Christy seventh man, I know, super Max. Hahaa, folks.
That's a hell of a lineup. The Knicks have some
flexibility this offseason, but when you look at the roster,
it's like, are they too top heavy? And I don't
know how much movement they'll actually make. So could you
(34:45):
convince Jason Kidd, hey man, we're going to trade for you.
Then the other problem is that Dix don't have a
ton of assets to trade for Jason Kidd. And oh,
by the way, they owe thirty million dollars to Tom Thibodeau.
So now you're giving up assets, then you've got to Payjkid,
and you still gotta pay Thibodau. It just it doesn't
seem like a winning play for the Knicks. It's weird.
(35:08):
I didn't like the MAVs trade at all, but then
they get Cooper Flagg in the lottery, and now I've
got to get back to being a MAVs fan. I
loved them when they had Luca, just because I like Luca.
But the Knicks. Everybody's painting this is this is a
great job, is it?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
The Phoenix Suns just hired a guy named Jordan not
just kidding, Jordan Ott. I have no idea who that
guy is. The Phoenix Suns are clearly hitting hitting the
detonation button on the franchise. He's probably gonna be Devin
Booker and a bunch of dudes because Bradley Beal's gonna
wave his no trading clause and be gone. But like
that's what the Sons were picking Jordan Ott. So why
(35:46):
are we mentioning for the next Michael Malone. Maybe he
wants to go into TV. We saw him during uh
I think it was a West, Yeah Western Conference final.
If he saw him on TV talking about how SGA
was the real MVP, I thought it was a shot
a joker. I digress. But it's like, is the Knixt
job that good on the surface? Hell yeah, just went
(36:07):
to the conference finals, two games from the NBA Finals.
So Jason Kidd's an interesting name. My guess is it
doesn't happen but we know his history with the Knicks.
He's a Hall of Fame point guard. If you're making
a list of all time great point guards, kid has
to be top six, right. I mean, this is one
of the great point guards in NBA history. So I
(36:30):
don't know, it's gonna be fascinating. Nick's head coaching Watch
can't wait.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello, and welcome back to the Herd. It's me Jason
McIntyre here in La on a Wednesday, and boy do
we have a spicy showhead. I'm joined as always by
Alex Curry. Alex, I had several people ask me about
the ghost topic yesterday you run away. I never fired
(00:49):
up about ghost.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
No, okay, Jami. The way you see it is like
you can like white sheet scary. No, I'm talking about
like energy, So you can feel energy. And it's and
he's had a lot of people bring it up to
me too, and it's all women who can feel it
see it. We can't say having no, but women have
like strong inflicitions. I mean we're basically like gods.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Great pretty much. Yeah, I don't see the paper towel
being empty it's not the toilet paper. I don't even
see that stuff. It's not like what cartoons and movies
Scooby Doo terrified. All right, so listen, Obviously we got
to start the show with the big news in the
NBA yesterday my New York Knicks, who finally seemed to
get their act together right, greatest season this century, and
(01:33):
they fired their coach, Tom Thibodeau. He gets fired yesterday
and what like the middle of the show, Alex and
I were stunned. That was closer to the end of
the show. And one interesting nugget trickled out overnight regarding
how this happened. Because remember a lot of folks, myself included,
thought it maybe you just bring Tiboteou back and you
run it back, you know, you guys two games away
(01:55):
from the NBA Finals, took down the defending champion Celtics.
I'll running back. But this nugget trickled out of the
exit interviews. Apparently, when the Knicks were interviewing Josh Hart,
Michal Bridges, Jalen Brunson, one certain person in the organization
happened to sit in on those exit interviews, and that
(02:17):
was James Dolan, who's largely been a ghost the last
five years. Do you like that play on words there? Uh,
Dolan has not been around the Knicks because he's been
running the sphere in Vegas and getting that off the ground.
And obviously that's a great win for mister Dolan. But
sitting in on the exit interviews and all of a
sudden boom, the head coach has gone, you have to
(02:37):
wonder did he hear something he didn't like? Well, we
know that that just something did not come from Jalen Brunson,
who staunchly defended his coach. After the Knicks were eliminated
by the Pacers. We had a reporter say, well, what
do you think about TIBs is you got to make
it back? And Brunson was like, is that a real question?
We know Brunson liked Tips. He's known Tip since he
(02:59):
was a young guy. Rick Brunts and his father who's
done all with the Knicks staff played for the Knicks
and like that. There's a lot of internal stuff. Brunson
and Thibodeaux were a copacetic. But what we do know
is that Josh Hart had beef at points this season
with Thibodeau and Mikhale Bridges as recently as the middle
of March piped up, why aren't we playing our bench?
(03:21):
Why are we playing so many minutes? What's going on here?
I mean? And the numbers bear it out. The Knicks
starters averaged more points per game than any other starting
unit in the last forty five years in the NBA.
Tibbs does not trust his bench, right, that's very well known.
Happened in Chicago. Unfortunately, after that you sawt Derek Rose
wear down, you start Joe Kim Noah like these guys'
(03:43):
careers Luel Dang. Their careers kind of ended early because
Tibbs ran him into the ground, and the NIXT players
clearly pushed back on that. Bridges actually mentioned in March,
Yeah we got Landry Shammitt, why is any playing more? Well? Tibbs,
I guess saw the light and started playing Landry Shammon
in the payes. But unfortunately it was a little bit
too late. Landry sham couldn't save the day. So now
(04:08):
you have to wonder, like, does this change the trajectory
of say Carl Anthony Towns. Now we know he is
a TIBs guy dating back to Minnesota, is he all
of a sudden on the trading block. What happens Mikhail
Bridges who has had for five first round picks and
is looking for a big money extension. Do you pay him?
Do you try to get three guys to create him
(04:28):
and the aggregate next year? Does this mess everything up?
But most importantly, where do the Knicks head for a
head coach? And I do want to quickly defend tives.
Just give me a second. There was a nineteen year
stretch where the Knicks won one playoff series. Okay, Thibodeau
has won four in the last three seasons. He has
(04:50):
been successful. Look at this under Tom Thibodeaux, five seasons,
four playoff appearances, and you see that winning record there.
I know this is gonna be surprising. He has more
wins with the Knicks than pat Riley. It's just a
mind blowing stat Like, Tom Thibodau's been great. And we
should also add before Timbs came on board, eighteen seasons,
(05:12):
twelve different head coaches, so they finally get their act
together and now we're back in the head coaching cycle
for the Knicks. Who's gonna be the next head coach? Well,
you know, at the top of next hour, I'm gonna
reveal my five top names to replace Thibodeau, and then
a really spicy name that I haven't really seen bandied about.
(05:32):
It doesn't seem realistic, but I think there could be
some potential there. What's gonna happen next with the Knicks? Now,
I do want to pivot to a really explosive report
in The Athletic about Kevin Durant, and oh boy, folks,
it don't look good for Kevin Durant. Let me start
here by saying, Kevin Durant is one of the fifteen
(05:54):
greatest players in the history of basketball, full stop. We
all agree. The guy on an MVP, carried OK seed
to the finals, goes to Golden State, wins two finals MVPs.
His resume speaks for itself. Kevin Durant has had an
incredible career. It's inarguable that. Being said, we know, sports
(06:15):
are what have you done for me lately? And in
some ways, you know, Kevin Durant is the guy who
used to be an a list actor and get all
the first look at scripts, and now he's not getting
any looks. I mean Nick Cage comes to mind. You know,
won an Academy Award for leaving Las Vegas. What has
that guy done lately? Where's Nick Cage the last ten years?
Can he open a movie? No shot? I mean Will Smith.
(06:38):
Will Smith has an unbelievable movie resume. I mean, I
Am Legend is like probably one of my top ten
movies of all time. I love Will Smith as an
actor again, Like, is he getting any good looks anymore?
What are they starting filming Bad Boys for? You know,
like that's where Kevin Durant is in his career. I
don't know if anybody wants him. And I know what
(07:00):
the trade deadline, there were teams involved and talking to
the Suns. You had reports. I'm gonna put those in
air quotes, reports that five teams wanted Kevin Durant. Well,
the latest report in the Athletic is that the Phoenix
Suns keep calling the Houston Rockets and the Suns keep
lowering their asking price. Kevin Durant is thirty six, and
(07:21):
we know he's still a bucket. Okay, that's that's obvious.
Kevin Durant, he can give you twenty five points a night.
That's great. Yeah, so can Moe Wagner and Jalen Green.
I mean, these guys are ten years younger and they
can score almost what Kevin Durant does. And Kevin Durant
is also kind of an ornery, prickly fellow who oh,
by the way, has not been great in the playoffs lately. Guys,
(07:45):
the super team sons, yes, d Book Durant and Bradley
Beal qualifies as as super team. That's three all NBA
players joining forces. They didn't make the playoffs this year, Okay.
Kevin Durant has been swept in two of his last
three trips to the playoffs, and yes, both were with
super teams. Need I remind you the super team fiasco
(08:07):
in Brooklyn, which is really deserves its own thirty for
thirty it was a Hindenburg. Okay. They got swept in
his last playoff appearance by Jason Tatum and the Celtics,
Like Kevin Durant in the postseason, is not what we
he used to be. Again, you could love KD and
he's a bucket, but he's turning thirty seven in September.
(08:28):
Here's Rick Buker earlier this week talking about the trickiness
of how to move Kevin Durant.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
The tricky part is are you just getting him as
a one year rental or is he going to sign
an extension? Do you want to sign him to extension?
What does that extension look like. There's a lot of
tricky parts to that. To your point, because of Kd's age.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I just don't know what the market is for Kevin Durant.
So I started looking at the standings and teams that
could be close and looking at Kevin Durant's fifty four
million dollar contract next year, and yeah, okay, sure he's
gonna give you twenty five twenty seven points a game.
He don't want to be a leader. So if you
expect Kevin Durant to go to a young team and
(09:09):
maybe be that leader, be that agent of change who's
gonna take them up the next step, and I'll toss
one out there. You know, Kevin Durant went to the
University of Texas, He loves Austin, has a very big
affinity for the city. Hey, the San Antonio Spurs, could
that work? Wem Benyama dieron Fox Kevin Durant, Maybe that's something.
(09:31):
And then you look at what the Spurs are and
you're like, okay, well we're not giving up Stefan Cassel
for to rent Kevin Durant for one year? Is wem
Ben Yama and KD? Is that doing anything in the West?
And I look around the Houston Rockets, folks, they would
rather chase Giannis than go after Kevin Durant. I mean,
I don't you know. A couple years ago, Kevin Durant.
(09:51):
You know, he grew up in the DC area. Here's
a legend in Maryland growing up. And I floated the idea,
why wouldn't he go to the Wizards, you know, and joinforce,
would like John Wall and Bradley Beal. This is way back,
and it's like Wizards are one of the worst teams
in the league right now. I mean, is that the
kind of thing where we're gonna see Kevin Durant end
up on a bad team? Somebody in our morning meeting floated,
(10:12):
what about the Atlanta Hawks, KD, Trey Young, Jalen Johnson
coming back from I don't know. And again, I'm a
huge Kevin Durant fan. Yes, we've had our online beefs
a few times over the years, but I love him
as a basketball player. I don't love the I just
want to hoop I don't want to be a leader thing.
I mean, could we see him in Detroit to help
(10:35):
the Pistons get over the top. But then you look
at the Pistons salaries and it's like, Okay, are we
dumping any of our good young players? Hey, we need
Onsar Thompson. You're not getting him. Not for Kevin Durant
for one freaking year. And the more we talk about
Kad and you read stories about the Sun's lowering their
asking price, you start to wonder, like she's o. The
Son's gonna have to attach a draft pick, assuming they
(10:58):
have any left to get off Kevin duran Are we
in a world where Kevin Durant is close to ending
his career like Patrick Ewing did with the Seattle Sonics.
You guys remember a Lajahwan wearing a Raptor's jersey. I mean,
Karl Malone is sitting on the bench with the Lakers
like we're not This is like a year or two away.
(11:18):
Maybe for Kevin Durant, He's either gonna have to have
a big reality check and understand, dude, I'm not that
guy anymore. Or Kevin Durant's gonna have to change his
ways and say, you know what, I will be a
leader for a young team because if I need twenty
five points, I'll go get Tyler Hero. Sorry, I don't
think Kevin Durant's defense he is that superior to what
(11:39):
you're getting at fifty four million playing the position he does.
And I'll leave you with this, like, again, I don't
want to be seen as taking jabs at Kevin Durant,
but at this stage in the game, like, what do
you do with him? Is there a world where nobody
wants Kevin Durant. As shocking as that sound, I think
(12:01):
we're getting close to Kevin Durant not really getting the
interest that he thought he would. So he goes super
teams and now he goes kind of out with a whimper.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Eastern a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
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Speaker 3 (12:21):
Welcome back into the Herd. We got to go to
New York now to figure out who put the knife
and Tom Thibodeau's back. So to Mitch Lawrence, who's covered
the Knicks forever. NBA writer host Sirius XM, He's got
an amazing background there as you can see. All right, Mitch,
So we were talking during the commercial break and you
described the Garden as a pit full of vipers. Can
(12:44):
you kind of break down what happened? Because Thibodeau just
led the Knicks to their best season this century and
then he gets asked.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
Yeah, I mean he had the best playoff run since
nineteen ninety nine, and the fans were partying like it
was nineteen ninety nine, and all of a sudden, he's
the guy who's the scapegoat. It is Listen, the Garden
front office is full of vipers. These are guys who
have their own agendas, whatever they are. They leak stuff
to the media. They want certain people and certain people out,
(13:14):
and they had it in for Tom. It goes beyond basketball, Jason.
It goes beyond he didn't develop a bench. It goes
beyond guys didn't know their roles. It goes beyond you know,
you didn't have an offensive imagination. This goes beyond all
that stuff. And now we're gonna see who Jim Dolean
the owner, you know, who gets his ear and who
he talks to and who they settle on as the
(13:36):
next coach and say, this is what I when I was,
you know, based in New York and that the New
York Daily News doing twenty one years of NBA columns.
This was familiar ground for anybody who dealt with the
Knicks and dealt with Jim Dole. It is a it's
a it's a treacherous place if you're a coach, because
you're the guy who's the face of the franchise. They
don't let Leon Rose talk. Dolan doesn't talk. So Tom
(13:59):
Thibodeau was the guy who had a talk. They don't help.
Nobody's held accountable in terms of Leon Rose or Jim Dolan,
and you know, stuff like this happens. It's a very
it's run differently than any other organization, and it's been
unsuccessful in a lot of ways. You know, it's the
anti Spurs, anti Miami, whatever you want to call it.
(14:20):
They do things their own way, and for the most part,
before Time came on board, they were irrelevant and a
dumpster fire. And they I think Nick fans probably fear
now that's the road they're headed back on.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, especially if you don't make the right higher So
who would you say has the biggest poll or the
most poll in making the higher Is it Dolan who's
kind of been out of the mix. You know he
was with the Sphere in Vegas building? That is it
Leon Rose? Do the players have us say here? We
know it's the players league. I mean, Jalen Brunson couldn't
(14:53):
save TIBs, But how do you break that down?
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Well, Jalen Jalen Brunson liked TIBs and they didn't listen
to him. So you also have to wonder what that
means for him, especially if they get rid of his father,
who's on the bench. I think that has to be
a concern for Nick fans too.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
Listen.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
I think it's gonna probably be a few people. It'll
be Leon Rose. They'll run it by Dolan. Dolan, will
you know, do his checks? It's hard to tell. It's
because nobody really talks publicly like what they should do
is have Leon Rose out there today to say this
is why we fired Tom Tibodall. I'm gonna take questions
(15:31):
and answers, and by the way, this is what we're
looking for in our next coach. Give people an idea
of what they're going for. But the Knicks don't do
things like that. Like other teams. They don't make people
you know that. Pat Riley goes public after his team
gets wiped off the court against Cleveland and he owns
up to stuff. The Knicks don't do that, so you
never know their game plan. So it's very hard to
(15:53):
say exactly how it's all gonna run, or who's gonna
have the power, who's gonna you know, who wants who
out there? It's oh, you're always dealing with a lot
of mystery at the garden.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, and it feels like, I don't know if you
use the word accountability, but like Leon Rose, like, shouldn't
you step up and meet the media and talk about
this now? I mean that seems like the way we
should do it.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
No, everybody does it that way in the league. I
mentioned pat Riley, Brad Stevens when thing went south for Boston.
This year they're spending champs. He met with the media.
I think he had Daryl Morey and Nick Nurse meet
in Philadelphia. Nobody had a worst year expectation wise than
probably Philadelphia. Jim Dolan doesn't want his people, like Leon
(16:36):
Rose and other gms before him, to speak publicly. He
kind of has an ant, you know, you hear teams
having a you know, a media policy. He has an
anti media policy. That's where as long as I you know,
for the longest time, and a lot of it dates
back to that sexual harassment case and you know, post
that in twenty oh seven, that's already eighteen years where
Isaiah Thomas and the Knick's gotten in big troubles dollan
(17:00):
twelve million dollars. After that, the league basically held sway
David Stern over the Knicks. That's when they hired Donnie Walsh.
Schindlan listen to the NBA then, but since then, he
he does things his way. He's not going to have
Leon Rose at all talk to the media. The next
coach will be the face of the franchise, just like
(17:21):
Tom was Tom Tibodau, which adds to, you know, the
pressure of the job in New York. Now you're the coach.
Not only you have the coach the team prepared a team.
Now you're also the face and the voice of the franchise.
Puts a lot of pressure on that next coach. Besides
the fact that obviously the next coach has a very
high bar. You got to come in, you got to
win eleven playoff games.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
Because Tom just won y ten.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
I'm gonna throw some names at you. You tell me
your thoughts. But first, the Phoenix Suns have just announced
that they have hired CALVS assistant Jordan Ott. You know
whoever that is. I don't know that that is a
move based on what the Knicks are doing. But there
is a guy, Johnny Bryant, whose name has been bandied
about as a potential Knicks candidate. I don't think you
(18:06):
go from Tom Thibodeau to Johnny Bryant, do you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
I don't think so either, but that doesn't mean it
can't happen. And he seems to be the front runner
right now. He was in New York. Now you mentioned
Jordan not getting the Phoenix job. Johnny Bryant was also
up for that job. So now he works in Cleveland
Fair Kenny Atkinson, but he had been in New York.
He's familiar with the front office. People are familiar with him.
(18:32):
He's got people who will hope he gets his job.
He has people who, from my understanding, who hope he
doesn't get the job. Listen, if you think you're a
championship contender, and I don't think the Knicks are.
Speaker 7 (18:43):
I think they're a decent cut.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Below with that roster, with their two best players being
one way offensive players and defensive liabilities. I'm talking about
Jalen Brunton and Karl Anthony Towns. You've built around those guys.
I don't think he can bring in a guy like
a Johnny Bryant who's never been a head coach certainly
you know, and and all of a sudden entrust him
(19:06):
to actually exceed what Tom Thibodeau did. I think that's
an impossible spot for him. And I think that's the
thing that I think Nick fans have to be worried about.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, Michael Malone was fired by Denver maybe two months ago.
He feels like Thibodeau two point zero doesn't like to
play young guys, rides his starters like that was an
issue for Tibbs. I would cross Michael Malone off the
list of your thoughts just.
Speaker 7 (19:31):
Based on that.
Speaker 6 (19:32):
Well, I will say this, if you go back to
his Denver team and now he had JOK. I know
Sga is the MVP, but this is like back in
the Michael Jordan era, Macarl Malone won the MVP. We
all knew that Michael Jordan was the best player in
the world, just like now we know that Jokic is
the best player in the world. He only had a
bench of basically three guys, Jeff Green, Bruce Brown, and
(19:54):
Christian Brett.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
That's it. They won the title that way.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
So if you're hung up on this bench, nonsense that
he won't play your bench.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
I mean, think of it this way.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
To Tom Thibodeau, is he really the first coach in
the history of the NBA and maybe sports to get
fired because he didn't he didn't develop a bench.
Speaker 7 (20:14):
It's ab sur so, sir, look who's on his bench.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
Mike Malone had a great bench with those three players
versus what Tom Thibodeau had to work with. But anyway,
that's a whole different story. I would hire Mike Malone.
He knows New York. His father coached in New York.
I knew Brendan Malone when he was an assistant in
Syracuse when I started out in the newspaper racket in
nineteen eighties. I go back that far when Michael Malone
(20:38):
was running around and basically diapers.
Speaker 7 (20:39):
Yeah, I think he's the hell of a coach.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
Now ten years in Denver, long time, won a title,
Maybe got a little full of himself, that's what people say.
I don't know. I haven't talked to Mike since then.
But he's a very good coach. And let's not forget
where was he before he landed in Denver and did
a great job their first title ever. He was in Sacramento.
He did a great job there for a franchise that
(21:03):
continues to you know. I mean, that's just like total
dysfunction out there except for a few moments, right, except
for a very few moments. And Mike Malone did a
good job there. I think Nick fans would actually say,
you know what, if we got Mike Malone, yeah, we
can go places and not worry about what he did
with his bench in Denver.
Speaker 7 (21:22):
Just look at his accomplishments.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
The only thing, though, Jason, is is he gonna come
in You're gonna say, well, he had you know, let's
see how he does without.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yoga, without the best player. Yeah that's not all right.
Let me throw one more. He's currently coaching the Dallas
Mavericks and his name is Jesse Kidd. He played with
the Knicks. Obviously, he was not brought in uh to
talk about the Luca deal. He looked shell shocked at
the press conference afterward. Are the Nixon upgrade from the Maps?
Speaker 5 (21:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Jason Kid's an interesting name.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
It is an interesting name.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
You know, if you look at the Knicks in terms
of where they are in the East, you know, Indiana
is there now. Boston's not gonna have Tatum for probably
a year, but they're gonna be back. You've got Detroit
on the rise, or Orlando. We'll see what happens in
Milwaukee with Giannis. The Knicks, uh, you know they're gonna
(22:17):
they're probably gonna take a step back with a new coach.
I don't know how Jason. First of all, he has
a job in Dallas. Like you raised the point with
his roster, He's not gonna have Kyrie Irving for a while.
He'll have Anthony Davis. We know that Anthony Davis cannot
stay on the court at points, but.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
He's gonna get Cooper Flag.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
Right. It sounds like they're gonna keep that draft picking
up pick Cooper Flag. So it would have to be
some sort of a trade to get Jason Kidd. They're
gonna have to get some sort of compensation and who
knows what Nico Harrison and Patrick Dumont, the owner are thinking.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
These days about Jason Kidd. I have no idea.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
All I know is that the Maverick fans are still
I rate that Luka Doncis is a Laker that has
not gone away.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, Mitch Lawrence, NBA writers, serious, serious XM hosts. Great stuff.
I like the blue Knick's shirt turtleneck. Nice job, Mitch,
thanks a lot.
Speaker 7 (23:07):
Man, thanks for having me. Jason enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, interesting stuff. He's bullish on Michael Malone. Listen. I
was pushing Michael Malone's name a month ago when the
Knicks were struggling against Detroit, and I was like, I
don't know, if they can't get by Detroit, just get
TIBs out of here bringing Malone. Then they beat the
Celtics and I'm like, eh, just keep.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
TIBs one more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours
a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app.
Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 8 (23:36):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(23:58):
sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something, right, So
check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the most interactive show on planetar. Be sure to
(24:18):
check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio
and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern,
two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of
the live show, just search Covin on Rich wherever you
get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's
Covino and Rich.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
We're back our number two here on the Herd. Jason
McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd. I'm joined today by Alex Curry, Alex,
you know NBA Finals start tomorrow. I know you're really excited.
And we haven't talked a lot about the Stanley Cup finals,
like here, hockey is happening this week or something like that. Yeah,
(24:58):
I mean we got something. I'm just kids.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
It's funny though, because obviously I used to work in hockey,
so I love it and I follow it. And I
was following the Kings playoff run. They got got booted
once again, yeah by the Edmonton Oilers.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
But yeah, it's similar.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
It's kind of having a similar feel to this NBA
Finals right now, where everyone's like, oh, yeah, the finals
are this way, opposed to like, oh my god, I
can't wait for this day because a final start.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So it's yeah, it's a rough one. We have a
really nice guest coming up in thirty minutes, Alexi Lawss,
US national soccer team legend, also a soccer agitator. Can
I call them that. I'm on a text thread with
some soccer dads and they're like, oh I can't stand
that Lawless. Oh my goodness. But first we got to
start here. Obviously, the Knicks fired Tom Thibodeau yesterday. Bit
(25:48):
of a shocker, and we decided to we come up
with five potential names to replace Tom Thibodeau. Now we
just had Mitch Lawrence on and he broke it down
in an interesting way. He's like, listen, man, MSG is
a pit full of vipers because it's so insular and
they don't talk to the media. Really, nobody knows who's
(26:09):
really making this decision. Like Leon Rose had hired his
guy Tibbs, Well, did Leon Rose fire his guy or
did Dolan step in? Is Jim Dolan back in charge
and he's gonna flex and throw his weight around, And
so there's a bit of a mystery as to will
Rose get his guy, Will the players have a say
we know it's a player's league, or is the owner
(26:30):
just going to steamroll everybody and say this is what
I want. So I came up with five guys and
then we'll have like a special mystery guy at the end,
which I'll go a little longer. But the first guy
I'd bring up is Mark Jackson. Nobody's talking about Mark
Jackson whatsoever. He's him on the right side. But listen,
this is the guy who was in Golden State for
the early Splash Brothers and he got run off. The
(26:53):
worst part for Mark Jackson was right after he got
run off, Steve Kerr made a little tweak right he
put Draymond Green into the death lineup. They want small ball,
and they made the jump to light speed, and the
Warriors never looked back. They became a dynasty. And depending
on who you talk to, it's like, oh, oh, Mark
Jackson couldn't figure it out. We needed Steve Kura do that. Now.
(27:16):
Mark Jackson is a legend in New York City, Okay,
born in Queens like myself, I thought I was a
point guard. He actually was a point guard, went to
Saint John's, legendary player at Saint John's. What with the Knicks,
mister shimmy, I mean, Mark Jackson needs no introduction. The
problem is he had some off court stuff that kind
(27:38):
of carried over and then the Warriors thing. Never he
never was able to rebound from that, and he never
got a second chance, which I think is kind of bs.
He went to be an announcer and then he got
shoved out of that. So Mark Jackson's just out there,
and my gut tells me Dolan, wanting to win over
the fans, is gonna bring in Mark Jackson for an interview.
I don't know if you'll get it, but he's on
the list. I think the next guy you got to
(28:00):
bring up is Michael Malone. Now, Michael Malone won a
title in Denver a couple of years ago, and we
talked with Mitch Lawrence a little while ago talking about
Thibodeau getting fired. He raved about Michael Malone.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
It's a treacherous place if you're a coach, because you're
the guy who's the face of the franchise. They don't
let Leon Rose talk. Dolan doesn't talk. So Tom Thibodeau
was the guy who had a talk. Nobody's held accountable
in terms of Leon Rose or Jim Dolan. It's run
differently than any other organization, and it's been unsuccessful in
a lot of ways. You know, it's the anti Spurs,
(28:35):
anti Miami, whatever you want to call it. They do
things their own way, and for the most part, before
Time came on board, they were irrelevant and a dumpster
fire and they I think Nick fans probably fear now
that's the road they're headed back on.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So if you listen closely, Mitch's like listen. They don't
like dealing with the media. Thibodeau did not like dealing
with the media. He just wouldn't give much, wouldn't talk
a lot. You know who doesn't mind mixing it up
with the media. Michael Malone. He'll go right back at
you guys. And you know why because he won a
title with Denver and he talked, He talked trash and
(29:12):
backed it up. Now, the interesting thing is I had
a Knicks fan. Tell me listen, who was yo kitch
when he came into the league. Second round pick? Give
me a break, Carl Anthony Towns. You don't think Michael
Malone could work with him and take his defense from
a D plus to a B minus? Could he get
him to a C plus? Michael Malone really did help.
(29:34):
You'll catch a lot. Why couldn't you do that with
Kat and I? You know, remember I was pushing Michael
Malone during the Detroit series. You know we could pull
that video if you really want to. I know you
don't care, but then I backed off when he beat
the Celtics, and I don't Malone really does feel like
Thibodeaux two point zero? All right, next name on the
list again. Kind of going off the board here, Steve
(29:55):
Nash anyone Steve Nash coached in Brooklyn. It's funny because
Steve Nash was great with the Warriors as like a
specialty coach. Kevin Durant loved him, and then Kevin Durant
pushed for him when he got to Brooklyn with Kyrie.
But what Kevin Durant didn't know is Kyrie Irving was
kind of sort of losing his mind at the time
(30:16):
and wanted nothing to do with Steve Nash. He famously
went on like an Instagram Live or whatever and was like,
KD and I with Riq, we don't even need a coach,
and I told the story how Steve Nash was in
New York. Kyrie said, oh, yeah, come to my place
to meet me. And Steve Nash in the rain, went
there and Kyrie just left him on the doorstep for
like twenty minutes, ringing the doorbell, just wouldn't answer it,
(30:38):
as like a hey man, I know you're the coach,
but I'm the guy I built this super team, and
it was like whoa. They got off on the wrong foot.
Nash did not last long in Brooklyn, but he's now
partnered with Lebron Lebron on a podcast, and we know
that worked out well for Lebron's last podcast partner, JJ Reddick.
Let's see who else we got? We got Mike Brown, anyone.
(31:01):
Mike Brown's kind of been around the league, smart guy,
I don't want to say, got Railroad in Sacramento, but
it just didn't really pan out for him. Obviously a
very good coach in Cleveland. He's been around the league.
Is considered a defensive guy, which is pretty good, especially
when you factor in how bad the Knicks defense was
(31:21):
against the Pacers. I believe they gave up one hundred
and twenty six points per game in the losses in
the series, and it's like that was Tibb's calling card.
He couldn't deliver. Can Mike Brown get the defense up
to stuff? And finally, I'm going off the board here.
Sam Cassell. Everybody knows him. Great celebration guy, Sam Cassell.
We won't talk about the celebration. Haliburton mimicked it, but
(31:43):
Cassell is known as a players coach. Colin always last
when I say this phrase. But Sam Cassell is a
cool guy. He's funny. He was a great point guard
and I do believe he could connect with these guys
in a way, Tibbs, who's sixty seven and much older
than Cassell. Tibbs didn't really connect with Bridges and Heart
and now that came out in the media, could Cassell
(32:05):
be the guy? So those are the five guys that
I think we'll certainly get interviews in Deep Looks. Michael
Malone obviously everybody loves that. Mike Brown. I haven't heard
as much about Nash. I don't know if I was
the first to float him yesterday right after it broke,
Sam Cassell and Mark Jackson. So now I'm gonna go
with the other guy. And I was not convinced of this,
And we had a heated four minute debate in the
(32:28):
meeting this morning about whether or not Jason Kidd is
a viable candidate for the next job. Jason Kidd was
the point guard with Carmelo Anthony when The Next had
a really good run ten years ago. The problem, of course,
is Jason Kidd is currently under contract with the Dallas Mavericks.
But let's be real, Jason Kidd may not love it
(32:53):
in Dallas. They get to the finals with Luca and
then don't consult Jay Kidd and they trade Luca to
the Lake and Jason Kidd, And we don't have video
of it, but if you look at the post Luca
trade press conference, Jason Kidd is staring straight ahead like
he saw a ghost. Yeah, we're doing one ghost reference
an hour people, And I don't I'm a Knicks fan.
(33:16):
I don't know if the Knicks next season is an
upgrade from the MAVs. Let me explain. Yes, the Knicks
are in the East, notatum Celtics pull back. Knicks are
gonna be one of the three best in the East.
Dallas gets Cooper Flag, they have Anthony Davis Gafford for now,
(33:37):
Derek Lively, PJ Washington, and Kyrie Irving's hurt and will
be out. I'm gonna generously say the All Star break
maybe March first, so there will be some struggles. Here's
why I think Dallas is interesting given the number one
pick of Cooper Flag. I believe they will be active
in free agency and they will be making trades. I
(33:59):
think gaff is gone. I think you could probably trade
Gafford to a team looking to off road salary. And
hello Drew Holliday and the Boston Celtics. So now, if
you're just looking at a playoff lineup in Dallas potentially
Drew Holliday, Kyrie Irving, PJ. Washington, Lively, an ad that's
maybe a truck in the West, and my main man,
(34:22):
Cooper Flag future NBA MVP. Cooper Flag would be your
sixth man, super Max Christy seventh man, I know, super Max. Hahaa, folks.
That's a hell of a lineup. The Knicks have some
flexibility this offseason, but when you look at the roster,
it's like, are they too top heavy? And I don't
know how much movement they'll actually make. So could you
(34:45):
convince Jason Kidd, hey man, we're going to trade for you.
Then the other problem is that Dix don't have a
ton of assets to trade for Jason Kidd. And oh,
by the way, they owe thirty million dollars to Tom Thibodeau.
So now you're giving up assets, then you've got to Payjkid,
and you still gotta pay Thibodau. It just it doesn't
seem like a winning play for the Knicks. It's weird.
(35:08):
I didn't like the MAVs trade at all, but then
they get Cooper Flagg in the lottery, and now I've
got to get back to being a MAVs fan. I
loved them when they had Luca, just because I like Luca.
But the Knicks. Everybody's painting this is this is a
great job, is it?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
The Phoenix Suns just hired a guy named Jordan not
just kidding, Jordan Ott. I have no idea who that
guy is. The Phoenix Suns are clearly hitting hitting the
detonation button on the franchise. He's probably gonna be Devin
Booker and a bunch of dudes because Bradley Beal's gonna
wave his no trading clause and be gone. But like
that's what the Sons were picking Jordan Ott. So why
(35:46):
are we mentioning for the next Michael Malone. Maybe he
wants to go into TV. We saw him during uh
I think it was a West, Yeah Western Conference final.
If he saw him on TV talking about how SGA
was the real MVP, I thought it was a shot
a joker. I digress. But it's like, is the Knixt
job that good on the surface? Hell yeah, just went
(36:07):
to the conference finals, two games from the NBA Finals.
So Jason Kidd's an interesting name. My guess is it
doesn't happen but we know his history with the Knicks.
He's a Hall of Fame point guard. If you're making
a list of all time great point guards, kid has
to be top six, right. I mean, this is one
of the great point guards in NBA history. So I
(36:30):
don't know, it's gonna be fascinating. Nick's head coaching Watch
can't wait.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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