June 12, 2025 • 34 mins
Colin identifies the major issue the Thunder are struggling with in the NBA Finals after a game 3 loss and dropping to 2-1 in their series against the Pacers. He gives the latest numbers from Shedeur Sanders at Browns mini camp & OTAs and why it appears he's on a path to winning the starting job. Plus, NBA champion Paul Pierce joins the show to tell Colin why the Knicks made a mistake firing head coach Tom Thibodeau
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Here we go. It is a Thursday. We are live.
It is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be listening.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thanks for making us for the Thursday part of your day.
The Pacers with thirteen steals, the Pacers with eleven blocks.
Who is the great defensive team in this finals? I
can't tell the difference. I have no idea. This cook
got jmek, We got ourselves low NBA Finals drama.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Somebody on this show gave out Taser's money line yesterday.
I don't remember, you know, but we loved Indianna. I
think they're a control of the series the way they
locked up ASDA.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Oh what it?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So we have found o KCS kryptonite. You send this
young team on the road and that defense isn't nearly
as dominant, and they make more mistakes nineteen turnovers, and
they don't get to the free throw line. The Thunder
or an average team four and four in the playoffs
(01:34):
when their star SGA has eight free throw attempts for fewer.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
They're five hundred. That's all they are.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And remember we told you that Celtics were a better
road team because they live on the three. You don't
need the whistle when you're shooting threes. The three travels well. Yeah,
OKC does not travel well. And they're young rotational players
and we know this, We've told you this.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You know this.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Young rotational players and bench players like Indianas are always
better at home than they are on the road. And
they get a little tight, they don't get the home cooking,
they commit a few more turnovers. OKC is just okay.
Through the last three series, they're two and four on
the road. And because the Thunder didn't play a lot
(02:20):
of close games. Remember they won by an average of
twelve point nine points a game. The downside of that
is they didn't play a lot of close games. And
the best clutch team in the NBA is Indiana. They're
nine and one, in the playoffs, in clutch games, so
in close, tight games, the last six minutes of the
game last night, the Thunder had one field goal. They
(02:42):
weren't even good at the free throw line. So their
youth and their depth is a huge, huge edge. During
the regular season, right, they just have huge energy and
the regular season it's not about preparation. Sometimes it's a
back to back. You're watching film in the locker room
as you put your uniform on. It's about bodies. It
(03:03):
is about energy, and okay, sees the best in the
league at that. But the playoffs, everybody's equally arrested and
you face the same team over and over and over,
and Rick Carlisle is sitting there thinking, Okay, I'm starting
to figure this team out a little bit. I'm starting
to figure this team out. Late in the fourth quarter,
(03:23):
it was Oklahoma City that was gassed. Indiana was getting
great looks, getting great looks. They shot fifty two percent
for the game. So we have ourselves a series now.
I mean, think about the regular season. The only teams
that have ever won as many games is the Thunder
in the regular season are the Early Warriors with Stephen Clay.
The best team ever Michael Jordan's Bulls and the Wilt
(03:46):
Elgin Baylor Jerry West Lakers got to go, you gotta
go way back. Those are the only teams that were
ever better. And they are built perfectly for the regular season,
and they're a very good playoff team, and they may
win the finals game SEVENS and OKC, but today they
are mortal. They have a kryptonite that youth on the
(04:09):
road allows one hundred and seventeen points a game. That's
not all time stuff. Here's SGA after.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
They were aggressive, they were they were hiring the picker rolls.
They really were just like courtes said, more aggressive, more forceful. Yeah,
we gotta starts with me, but we got to apply
that pressure back. Especially if you want to beat a
team like that on the road, you gotta be the
(04:38):
more forceable team for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
All right, let's talk Pacers, and they are and we've
said this, they're a lot of fun to watch. I
thought they'd beat Milwaukee. I didn't think they'd beat Cleveland.
I didn't know about the Knicks, and I took OKC
in six. I gotta tell you, they have so many
different types of players. Forget the fact that seven different
(05:02):
pacers are averaging double figures in the finals.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Forget that, but.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I mean they have They can put crazy length on
the floor. Halliburton's the longest point guard in the league.
Put on the floor with Obi Toppin, Siakam and Miles Turner,
They're one of the longest teams. You can go small
and quick, TJ McConnell, Naysmith. They got small, quick guys.
They got long guys. They have ascending players. How about
Ben Mathern. How about that guy? How about that young guy?
(05:27):
Got a little Westbrook right with a little more refinement.
He was a hockey and football player in Canada. He
goes to Arizona one year in college dominates next year
he's going to be one of the best players in
the league. You're going to talk about Cooper Flag and
that kid's gonna give you twenty two a night. He
has wild confidence and per minute, I think he may
be the Pacers leading score per minute. So they've got
(05:50):
ascending players, veteran players like Siakam, rim protectors. There are
so many levers for Rick Carlyle to pull that are unselfish.
I don't see ego. They have the requisite three point shooters.
I mean, last night, they had eleven blocks. They had
like double the steals. I was saying this on my
(06:13):
podcast after, is that they stole about eight points last
night on like inbounds plays or offensive rebound or a
steal or a block. They were just stealing points throughout
the game. And remember, this is a really bad here's
something that's really bad news for Oklahoma City. So Oklahoma
City played the fewest clutch time games in the league, right,
(06:38):
and all the pressures on Oklahoma City because they're the favorite,
and they're one of the youngest teams in the league,
and the Pacers are the best clutch time team probably
in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That's a bad combo.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
A young team with more pressure that hasn't played a
lot of close games against the best close game point guard.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
And team in the league.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And if you go look at the by quarter scoring,
Oklahoma City's best quarters the first, the Pacers is the fourth,
which one would you.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Take as a head coach?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Now Game sevens and OKC, but the pressure is all
on the Thunder. The best thing they got going for him.
They're at home and they're good at home. But last
night I thought Indiana got better looks. They played more efficiently.
They were less sloppy, they were more composed. They were
(07:33):
the much better team at the end of the first
half and at the end of the game. Remember the
Pacers got to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. We
forget this. We paid so much attention to the Celtics
and can Denver get back? And we're always talking Lakers
Kyrie Irving and Luca. This team got to the Eastern
Conference Finals last year, but they weren't very good defensively.
(07:54):
Now they're much better defensively with the same great pace
and all these ascending players like Halliburton's getting better. You
can see this, Nasmith, I mean, like the Sea Hawkom's
always been good, right, but this is a team that's
getting better and has more confidence not only year to year,
but series the series.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And here's their coach after.
Speaker 7 (08:17):
This is the kind of team that we are. You know,
we need we need everybody to be ready. It's not
always going to be exactly the same guys that are
stepping up with scoring and stuff like that. But you know,
this is this is how we got to do it,
and we got to do it as a team, and
and you know, we got to make it as hard
(08:37):
as possible on them.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
It really matters that Rick Carlisle's a good coach, because
I don't care if it's football, basketball, hockey, or baseball.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
The better the manager, the better the coach.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
They're better at pulling the right levers, Eric Spolstra, a
Steve Kerr. They just the more levers you can get
them to pull in a series. So and I also
think we're overstating it's it's bad on me, but I
think I kind of felt like going into the series,
you know, like, OKC he's got a better roster.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I'm not so sure of it.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I'm not so.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I think Indiana players were to good defense. And I
think they have so many different types of players, small, quick, long, offensive.
I mean Halliburton, Obi Toppin, Miles Turner, this team at
eleven blocks last night. So I you know, we're all
(09:27):
talking about what the Knicks are going to do and
wait till Tatum's back with the Celtics, and who are
the Lakers going to land?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I look at Carlisle an ascending roster, all sorts of shapes,
styles and sizes and leversed to pull. Got ourselves some
NBA drama. J mag This was fun. Last night was fun.
And I'll tell you what if you start looking at
what Indiana does in the fourth quarter this year, there
was a video that was out. It was I was
introduced to it probably about three weeks ago, and they
(09:55):
showed Halliburton, who you were on like two and a
half years ago, but they showed Halliburton every shot he
took like a minute or less left in the basketball
game to lead er tie guys, like twelve of thirteen.
Like There's always been this feeling among the analytic mavens
that there's no such thing as clutch shooters, like it
(10:17):
all works out with a math. That's not true. But
when you watch Indiana and Halliburton play, that guy is
so good and so confident in big clutch moments. At
some point we have to acknowledge Halliburton is now one
of the NBA's elite closers. It's not always scoring, but
from three point shooting to driving and dishing, he is
(10:41):
one of the league's best closers.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
He was tremendous. I'm surprised you did ten minutes and
we really did not go after SGA, the MVP, the
free throw merchant who somehow escaped criticism for a fourth
quarter when he had one turnover in one basket, Colin,
they wore him down.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Seven different defenders on SGA.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
And if you notice when the Pacers were running offense,
they were attacking him the same way that Pacers attack Brunson.
Remember Brunson was just getting abused. They went at Sga.
He had nothing left in the tank.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Colin.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
I don't know how they the thunder changed this. I'm
shocked that the line is OKC minus six for Game
four on the road. They haven't covered a road game
this postseason, eight against the spread.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
How is OKAC favored here? I don't get it. Well,
I mean, it's pretty clear.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
If Sga doesn't get to the line, they are an
average playoff team on the road. And overall they're four
and four when he's not getting to the line over
eight times, so that's sort of the key if he
does not get the home whistle. And when you and
I talked about this yesterday on the show, we both
liked Indiana and our takeaway was, and you saw it
last night, bench players and young players at home are unbelievable.
(11:52):
Indiana's bench last night, it's one of the great bench.
The second quarter was insane. They just they put starters
on the bench, brought the bench guys in, and they
were dominating Okac. Indiana's bench is not gonna look like
that in the road, and Okac's bench isn't his dynamic
on the road.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So this is something with stars.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Usually you get your points from your Halliburn's gonna be
good usually all the time. Jokich's Giannis is but those
rotational and bench guys. Home is a different environment completely.
They get confidence, they get energized.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
And the Pacers win this in six because if they win,
they got to win game four. I don't think they're
taking two of three from Okac on the road, right
they got They're not gonna win game seven and Okac'll they'll.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Get run off the court.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I took Okay see in six, I would adjust it
to Okac and seven. I think they're gonna be tough
to beat at home in the game seven.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
And Pacers got to win this in six. That's why
they got to win game four. Ben Matherin, by the way,
what a study. So you call him Russell Westbrook?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Last night?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
No?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
He does he?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
But oh no?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So I went and I looked up his Wikipedia stuff.
He was a hockey guy and a football guy in
a basketball guy. He goes to Arizona, is a dominant
college player, and you know he's a one and done guy.
But he's a guy that when he's on the floor
is just instant energy for them. I mean, you can see, folks,
you can talk about all these players. We're gonna pay
attention to Cooper Flag next year and Wemby and the
(13:12):
young players. This kid is dynamic man.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
He is caught.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
He was like that in Calle. I boughted him like
twice in college. Super confident player.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And he's confident defending SGA Game one in Game three,
he did a great job. He's like a physical dude.
You can't just push him off like SGA normally does.
I'm all about the series, Colin.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's fun.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Neon Easter non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one, and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
App Storytime Uncle Colin. So, there were these two scientists
back in like the sixties for three M, the company
three M, and they were trying to create this super
strong adhesive for the aerospace industry. But even though they're
scientists and smart guys. They ended up created a much
(14:01):
weaker adhesive that was very removable, and that became post
it notes, which are probably more important anyway. But the
point being is they stumbled into wild success. And I
think that's what the Cleveland Browns have done. The coach
in the GM did not want to, They didn't want
to draft Shador Sanders, and they did in the fifth round,
(14:23):
two rounds after Dylan Gabriel, and he's crushing it. He's
their best quarterback in camp calling call you, he's facing backups,
he's throwing to him as well. Sometimes just stumbling to success.
It's not a straight line. It's not linear. Brady with
the Patriots brought Purty to the Niners, Kurt Warner to
the Rams. It's not always a straight line. So the
(14:44):
staff because they picked and the GM because they picked
Dylan Gabriel third round and shoudu Her fifth, they're given
Dylan Gabriel most of the first team reps.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
But not all of them. Now, not all of them.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
The coaching staff cannot deny what's happening. And here's the difference.
Let's forget Flacco for a second. He'll probably start and
Kenny Pickett's not the future. Let's concentrate on the two kids.
Shadueur Sanders is thirty four of forty four nine touchdowns
one pick, the most accurate quarterback easily in camp seventy
(15:23):
seven percent. Dylan Gabriel is the least of the four
accurate quarterbacks fifty four percent.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay, So I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
They're all thrown to the same guys, same protection, same
coaching staff, and that's why you got to be careful.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Abou Dylan Gabriel.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
If you just talk about Shader Sanders and Dylan Gabriel,
they did not have similar college experiences. Okay, Shaduur Sanders
has Travis Hunter and a bunch of non Sunday players.
Dylan Gabriel went from powerhouse Oklahoma to powerhouse Oregon and Oregon.
Outside of Ohio, State, Texas, and Georgia, Oregon had the
most guys drafted, had ten guys drafted. NFL receivers left
(16:02):
tackles right, So so Dylan Gabriel's playing with pros, pros everywhere.
Receiver Rams drafted their tight end, the receivers they're left
tackle pros everywhere. Great staff, one of the highest paid
staffs in the country. Shadur Sanders had Travis Hunter who
(16:23):
got doubled and tripled. So it's just like you and not.
You can't compare a Yale GPA to a community college GPA.
But if you give them a standardized test, or they're
taking a bar to be an attorney, Okay, now it's fair.
So that's why I think I don't want to hear
about what what Dylan Gabriel did in college.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Shadur didn't have that experience.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
The OTA in the mini camps, that's the standardized test.
That's same guys, same staff, same calls. One guy's complete
and almost eighty percent, one guy fifty four percent.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And you know, again, I.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Go back to what the scouts say, like lan zerline,
if you go back and look at the scouting report,
you know they acknowledge that Shador didn't have a great arm,
but Dylan had size, arm, release, mobility, as all sorts
of questions. So I don't care that he dominated it Oregon.
You know, it's like it's like a lot of quarterbacks
(17:18):
crush at Oregon. They've got great They've been a powerhouse
for twenty plus years. Chador Sanders on just you know,
humbly trying to work his way up the depth chart.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
You could view things as you're not getting reps in
a negative way, or you could view it as, Okay,
when's my time to get out there. Let's be proactive
and let's get warm, let's get going. So there's no
excuses because when you get out there, nobody cares how
they reps you got. Whenever you get in the game,
nobody cares if you took a snap before you know that.
They care about Everybody cares about production. So that's the
(17:53):
main thing. When you get out there, you got to
be able to produce.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Sounds like a sound like a franchise quarterback to me,
like what I'm hearing. But again, same plays, same receivers,
same tight end, same protection. Put that graph up again.
The numbers are the numbers. Shadeur is crushing it thirty
(18:21):
four or forty four.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
His balls aren't hitting the ground.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 9 (18:29):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 10 (18:37):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
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in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
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Speaker 9 (18:51):
And me, Well, you know what it's called over promise.
You should be good at it because you've been over
promising women for years.
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Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
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Speaker 1 (19:34):
One of the things I really like about Tyrese Halliburton
is how comfortable he is with TJ McConnell taking over
the game. Are any other young player getting his and
I think that's hard, Like point guards Steph Curry's like that,
(19:56):
but Steph always gets his. So I just there's an
iq eq self awareness with Halliburton. I mean, last night,
like he was TJ McConnell's biggest fan. Paul Pierce nineteen
years the Hall of Famer is now joining us. Every
not every teammate Paul is like that. Not every teammate's
happy when you get yours in Boston, you guys were stars.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You're a star.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Rondo wanted the ball, you had, Ray Allen, you had KG.
Haliburton generally appears joyful on winning more than everything in
your career.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Is that common?
Speaker 11 (20:34):
Wow, that's a great question. It depends on type of
leader you got in the locker room, It depends on
what's driving them, and it depends on like what's the goal.
What are we trying to accomplish? You know, people talk
about winning, but are they willing to do the necessary
things to help them win or is it just more
about them? And I don't see that about Halliburton, it
being about him. He just wants to win. And the thing,
(20:57):
and I said this yesterday on the Speed, I said,
like his play is uncommon in today. His play is unorthodox,
which is which is strange because when you look at
the common point guards of today, he's a traditional point
guard in my era today, he's unorthodox, right, you know
(21:18):
what I'm saying, Like he's a pass first point guard.
And that's why people don't look at him like a superstar.
And that's why. But his effect on the game is
the same as a superstar. And that's what I've been
trying to tell people.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, was you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
It is the playoffs, especially these playoffs, you don't get
the whistle.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I mean, they're gonna let you play.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I thought a big part of this last night was
a SG didn't get to the free throw line. This
team is four and four in the playoffs when he
doesn't get eight or more free throws. Some of this
is James Harden was totally reliant on the whistle. You weren't, Kobe.
He wasn't. But that's not a knock on SGA. But
(22:03):
the record is clear. Yeah, because home Grin's game is
still a little uneven. You're never quite sure what you get.
Last night, lou Dort hit threes. I think Sga is
a little whistle dependent.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Is that fair?
Speaker 11 (22:21):
You know it's fifty to fifty with him because some
nights he gets the whistle. I mean, he's still good
for twenty five to thirty, you know. I mean, think
about it. He had had twenty four last night, didn't
get the whistle. I mean, he could still put the
ball in the bucket. But I think he's just getting
worn down common he's getting worn down. Did you see
at the end of the game, they're picking him up full.
(22:42):
They're playing the long game. They're like, all right, he
may get us in the beginning, but were gonna pick
a full court by time that fourth quarter come. He's
gonna be so worn down because he has to do
it on both ends of the court. He has to defend,
because Indiana's making them defend too.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 11 (22:58):
You know they throwing picks on them, The isling them
pretty hard, and they're picking up full.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
That wears on you. I've been on other the gays, like.
Speaker 11 (23:05):
You just getting picked up full court or somebody just
on your body at all times. That wears you down
throughout the course of the game, and in the fourth
quarter when you got to do so much for your team.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
It's draining.
Speaker 11 (23:16):
It's draining when you when you got those guys who
don't hit the shots. Now you got to get back
on defense. It's draining when they score and then you
take the ball out. I get it, and I'm the
point guard, and they picking me up baseline the baseline,
and that's what I'm seeing right there.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
They're getting tired. It's clear.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I want to shift to the New York Knicks. Rachel
Nichol was on an hour ago. Rachael Nichols, I, my
take is, if you're going to fire anybody in any position,
you gotta have a plan. You got to have somebody
in the waiting in the car, waiting in the sedan
outside ready to come in. It doesn't sound like the
Knicks had a plan. What was your kind of take
(23:56):
on the firing at TIBs.
Speaker 11 (23:58):
I thought it was kind of unjust based on you
know what Tims was able to accomplish this year. You know,
he got them to the conference finals, and I think
he maxed out the team because everybody saw the Knicks
for what they worked throughout the regular season, and everybody
was like, Okay, yeah, they're a second.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Round exit team, right right.
Speaker 11 (24:19):
They made it to the conference finals one a lot
of games in the regular season. But I think their roster,
based on other other rosters I'm looking at in the
Eastern Conference, I think he maxed them out.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
They were deficient.
Speaker 11 (24:31):
They didn't have a bench, and even if Timms didn't
play him, when he did play them, I mean, how
productive were they Because when you look at the likes
of Indiana, when you look at Boston and teams of
that nature in the Eastern Conference, these guys had depth
and that's something that the Knicks were front heavy. So
I think he maxed out the rosters. So I don't
think a coach coming in the roster is what the
(24:55):
roster is the coach, it's not the coach. You're gonna
have to get more pieces for this team to get
over the hump.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
I don't care who you bring in. You can bring
in Red all Back, you can bring in Phil Jackson.
This team maxed.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Out, you know, Paul, It's interesting we forget they had
Hartenstein and Dante Devenchenza last year and Dante's a great
three point shooter. How many times in the next series
did we go, God, they need one more guy to
hit a three.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
They had him. He's off to Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
So they lost really valuable pieces and it showed up
against Indiana.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Man, I'm telling you, I tell people this.
Speaker 11 (25:30):
If they didn't make no Trader stood Pat they were
injured last year.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah, all they had to do was stan Pat.
Speaker 11 (25:37):
If they stand Pat, we're not We're probably talking about
the Knicks in the finals. Because you would have had depth.
You would have had more experienced from a year ago.
Randall would have gave you pretty much what Kat gave
you on both ends of the court, but you would
have had to depth. You would have had guys off
the bach that you can depend on. So you know,
(25:58):
it is what it is moving forward. I don't know
than they go from here as far as coaching, but
they're right there. Take nothing away from they're right there.
They're a piece away. No matter what coach you bring in,
they're a piece away.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So this is one of the better domestic drafts. Last
year was a heavy international draft. We got Duke players,
Rutgers players, there's a lot of American kids in this draft.
Cooper Flags the overwhelming favorite. I have made the comp
that I think he's a more aggressive Jason Tatum. Maybe
(26:28):
not today, but that's how I see the comp.
Speaker 11 (26:30):
You don't like that comp, Kylin, if you don't get
out of here with that.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
Talk about Jason Tatum.
Speaker 11 (26:37):
So you're telling me that Cooper Flags offensive package is
equivalent to Jason Tatum, a guy who's average thirty in
the league twenty eight, twenty seven. You think Cooper can do?
I love Cooper and I love what he's done, you
know throughout his career. He's a young guy too. I
look at him more of like a andre Kerlinko. You know,
(26:59):
he can play both ends. Maybe a little more offense
than Carolinko, but you gotta stay at Carolinko was an
all star in this team in this league.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Do I see him as a superstar?
Speaker 11 (27:11):
I don't know yet. I'm not quite sure yet. You know,
how is he in the pick and roll? How is
he initiating offense?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
How is he?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
You know?
Speaker 11 (27:21):
Got to look at other things. When I look at
primary scorers and guys who lead their team. How is
this playmaking? You know, off the dribble, when he's getting trapped,
when he's in different situations.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Now, he's still young and he'll learn these things.
Speaker 11 (27:34):
But I saw those things from Jason Tatum at Duke,
already playing a pick and roll, playing on the ball,
initiating offense off the ball, on the ball.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
So will he be an impact player in the league.
Speaker 11 (27:45):
I believe so, because he does too many things to
not be an impact. Offensively, he can knock down shots. Defensively,
he's a tear. His engine is a talent, and that's
something that people don't talk about. Having that type of
motor is a talent in this league, because when I
think about motor, there's only a certain few guys that
have a motor that that's head and shoulders above everybody.
(28:06):
When you talk about Auntie Takoupo. When guys like Westbrook,
you know that that's just that extra umph and he
has that.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
By the way, Cooper averaged nineteen a game at Duke
as a freshman. Tatum averaged seventeen, So they were very similar.
I do think even Tatum's dad has mentioned this. I
think Cooper's a more aggressive player, and that's just that's
almost DNA stuff. I can't explain it. They're just guys
that want the shot.
Speaker 11 (28:31):
I agree with that he's a more aggressive player as
far as attacking the basket, because I don't think he's
a good a shooter as Tatum either, though that's fair,
you know, so you go to take one, give one
like I was more like Tatum's probably was.
Speaker 8 (28:45):
Well.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I wouldn't say a better shooter, but I like to
attack the basket.
Speaker 11 (28:49):
I mean, you know it, just like you said, it's
in the DNA, and it's also what the coaches are
allowing allowing these guys. Uh, you know when I look
at the Cellish, I mean they're a three point heavy
shoot team. I was thinking about it this morning when
I watched the finals Colin. I saw that the both
teams combined to shoot. I believe it was like twenty
seven threes and twenty to like forty nine threes combined.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
And I've seen on.
Speaker 11 (29:11):
Multiple occasions, you know, the Celtics shoot fifty plus threes
and it's just like wow.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
By the way, do you think the Celtics go for
Giannis make a big move move? Jalen Brown Like, what
is your feeling on what Boston does you have a
sense of that culture.
Speaker 11 (29:27):
I'm not sure it'd be necessary to go for a
Janis as long as Jason Tatum is out and I
don't know the timetable on when he come back in
even if he does come back, he won't be the
Jason Tatum that we saw leaving the playoffs. You know,
it's gonna take some time to get back to that.
You know, if it were me, I kind of like
let the year play out and make decisions. I wouldn't
be too fast to make decisions. I'll see where the
(29:49):
team is and what direction we're going in, and if
there's something I can do at the trade deadline that's
gonna be benefit them in the long run or even
in the now, I'll make that move. But like I
wouldn't just be like, well, Jason's hurt, let's throw away
the year. I'm gonna sit back and see and be patient,
because most of the times, when you make these hasty
decisions and decisions that are too quick, you most likely
(30:13):
make the wrong decision on the team.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
So I hope they just sit back and be patient
and see what they need.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
So you have the most all time game winning buzzer
beaters made or assistant on regular and postseason Indiana is
the most clutched team in the playoffs, nine and one
in clutch time. Oklahoma City, because they won by an
average of thirteen points in the regular season, is a
really young team that hasn't been in a lot of
close games. I thought down the stretch the last six
(30:40):
minutes last night, I thought Oklahoma City shot creation was bad.
I didn't think they got good looks. I thought Indiana
just got better looks. And I thought to myself, Indiana
lives in these kind of games. They're in these games
every night, and I feel like, oh, it's a little
bit of a negative with Okac Paul, it's like a
football team that blows there. I always feel about the
(31:01):
Baltimore Ravens with Lamar. They blow so many people out
in the regular season. They're not used to a one
possession game. And I think Okase looked a little off
late last night.
Speaker 11 (31:10):
Well, yeah, those teams are front runners, Collins, and there's
nothing wrong with that, because I've seen front running teams win. Uh,
It's just that they're not used to being in that
situation when you're blowing teams out at a historic rate. Now,
when the game is close and tight and it's starting
to set in. They panic, and that's what that's what
(31:32):
we call front runners. I mean, look at the numbers.
If you just look at the numbers in the fourth
quarter alone in this series, it's it's drastic how Indiana
is out playing in the fourth quarter when the game
is tight. Indiana got better and it just look at
the GGC last night. They missed free throws they don't
(31:52):
normally miss. I see, I saw Jalen. I saw Jalen
miss what three was it? Three or four straight free throws?
And then it was like, whoa, it was obvious. If
it wasn't obvious before, it was obvious last night just
at the free throw line alone that you were like, whoa,
it got tight in there. And to their credit, they're
(32:14):
a young team. And I said this, this is why
I picked the Indiana Pacers. People don't understand, Like when
I watched them top the bottom coaching their stars and
you asked me, like, what, who are their stars? That's right,
we don't know because it's a different start every single night,
and that's what makes them tough to play. Like what
am I doing If I'm okay, see and I'm in
(32:35):
the locker room saying, oh, we have to prepare for
Nie Smith and them hard. Oh but they didn't show
up yesterday. Oh but now Matherin goes for twenty six.
It's so unpredictable. And that's why I picked them those
teams for me, Colin, when we you know, it's the
toughest games for me to play in.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Say like we playing a team and.
Speaker 11 (32:54):
The star was out, So now you're like, oh, it's
easy to prepare for what I know.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
I know what he is. It's easy to prepare for that.
Speaker 11 (33:01):
But when now the unpredictable ability sets in, it's like
anybody can go off and that's who Indiana is. It's
so unpredictable it's tough to prepare for them.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, if Sylcam had twenty nine points next game, you
wouldn't be surprised by that at all.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And if he had seven, you wouldn't be surprised. I mean, look,
t J McConnell took over the game in the second quarter.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Crazy right, right, They have so many unsuck heroes. I'll
tell you this story.
Speaker 11 (33:29):
We were at the end of the year in twenty
and ten and we're asked we were positioning ourselves for
the playoffs, and we were like, all right, should we
win these games or lose these games? Should we rest
and get ready? It was our seat and was on
the line, and we got into the meeting and me
Rondo ray keg he said, whould y'all rather play in
the second round? I think it was like Orlando and
Cleveland because Orlando it was like a two seed and
(33:50):
Cleveland was a one seed. We were like, let's play
the number one seed in the second round with Lebron.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
It's easier for us. It's easier for us.
Speaker 11 (33:57):
To prepare for him because we know it's all about him.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Now.
Speaker 11 (34:01):
That Orlando team was a little more in predictable. Yeah,
they got Dwighte, but they got Turgolou, Rashard Lewis, Jamiir
Nelson here, they got all these other guys. That's like
a little I don't know who's gonna be the next
start on any given night. Lebron in Cleveland was easier
to prepare for, even though they were the number one
seed and won sixty six games.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Paul Pierce the Hall of Famer, He's on speak after
us good seniors.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Olsm Man always
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
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or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Here we go. It is a Thursday. We are live.
It is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however
you may be listening.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thanks for making us for the Thursday part of your day.
The Pacers with thirteen steals, the Pacers with eleven blocks.
Who is the great defensive team in this finals? I
can't tell the difference. I have no idea. This cook
got jmek, We got ourselves low NBA Finals drama.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Somebody on this show gave out Taser's money line yesterday.
I don't remember, you know, but we loved Indianna. I
think they're a control of the series the way they
locked up ASDA.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Oh what it?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So we have found o KCS kryptonite. You send this
young team on the road and that defense isn't nearly
as dominant, and they make more mistakes nineteen turnovers, and
they don't get to the free throw line. The Thunder
or an average team four and four in the playoffs
(01:34):
when their star SGA has eight free throw attempts for fewer.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
They're five hundred. That's all they are.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And remember we told you that Celtics were a better
road team because they live on the three. You don't
need the whistle when you're shooting threes. The three travels well. Yeah,
OKC does not travel well. And they're young rotational players
and we know this, We've told you this.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You know this.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Young rotational players and bench players like Indianas are always
better at home than they are on the road. And
they get a little tight, they don't get the home cooking,
they commit a few more turnovers. OKC is just okay.
Through the last three series, they're two and four on
the road. And because the Thunder didn't play a lot
(02:20):
of close games. Remember they won by an average of
twelve point nine points a game. The downside of that
is they didn't play a lot of close games. And
the best clutch team in the NBA is Indiana. They're
nine and one, in the playoffs, in clutch games, so
in close, tight games, the last six minutes of the
game last night, the Thunder had one field goal. They
(02:42):
weren't even good at the free throw line. So their
youth and their depth is a huge, huge edge. During
the regular season, right, they just have huge energy and
the regular season it's not about preparation. Sometimes it's a
back to back. You're watching film in the locker room
as you put your uniform on. It's about bodies. It
(03:03):
is about energy, and okay, sees the best in the
league at that. But the playoffs, everybody's equally arrested and
you face the same team over and over and over,
and Rick Carlisle is sitting there thinking, Okay, I'm starting
to figure this team out a little bit. I'm starting
to figure this team out. Late in the fourth quarter,
(03:23):
it was Oklahoma City that was gassed. Indiana was getting
great looks, getting great looks. They shot fifty two percent
for the game. So we have ourselves a series now.
I mean, think about the regular season. The only teams
that have ever won as many games is the Thunder
in the regular season are the Early Warriors with Stephen Clay.
The best team ever Michael Jordan's Bulls and the Wilt
(03:46):
Elgin Baylor Jerry West Lakers got to go, you gotta
go way back. Those are the only teams that were
ever better. And they are built perfectly for the regular season,
and they're a very good playoff team, and they may
win the finals game SEVENS and OKC, but today they
are mortal. They have a kryptonite that youth on the
(04:09):
road allows one hundred and seventeen points a game. That's
not all time stuff. Here's SGA after.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
They were aggressive, they were they were hiring the picker rolls.
They really were just like courtes said, more aggressive, more forceful. Yeah,
we gotta starts with me, but we got to apply
that pressure back. Especially if you want to beat a
team like that on the road, you gotta be the
(04:38):
more forceable team for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
All right, let's talk Pacers, and they are and we've
said this, they're a lot of fun to watch. I
thought they'd beat Milwaukee. I didn't think they'd beat Cleveland.
I didn't know about the Knicks, and I took OKC
in six. I gotta tell you, they have so many
different types of players. Forget the fact that seven different
(05:02):
pacers are averaging double figures in the finals.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Forget that, but.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I mean they have They can put crazy length on
the floor. Halliburton's the longest point guard in the league.
Put on the floor with Obi Toppin, Siakam and Miles Turner,
They're one of the longest teams. You can go small
and quick, TJ McConnell, Naysmith. They got small, quick guys.
They got long guys. They have ascending players. How about
Ben Mathern. How about that guy? How about that young guy?
(05:27):
Got a little Westbrook right with a little more refinement.
He was a hockey and football player in Canada. He
goes to Arizona one year in college dominates next year
he's going to be one of the best players in
the league. You're going to talk about Cooper Flag and
that kid's gonna give you twenty two a night. He
has wild confidence and per minute, I think he may
be the Pacers leading score per minute. So they've got
(05:50):
ascending players, veteran players like Siakam, rim protectors. There are
so many levers for Rick Carlyle to pull that are unselfish.
I don't see ego. They have the requisite three point shooters.
I mean, last night, they had eleven blocks. They had
like double the steals. I was saying this on my
(06:13):
podcast after, is that they stole about eight points last
night on like inbounds plays or offensive rebound or a
steal or a block. They were just stealing points throughout
the game. And remember, this is a really bad here's
something that's really bad news for Oklahoma City. So Oklahoma
City played the fewest clutch time games in the league, right,
(06:38):
and all the pressures on Oklahoma City because they're the favorite,
and they're one of the youngest teams in the league,
and the Pacers are the best clutch time team probably
in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That's a bad combo.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
A young team with more pressure that hasn't played a
lot of close games against the best close game point guard.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
And team in the league.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And if you go look at the by quarter scoring,
Oklahoma City's best quarters the first, the Pacers is the fourth,
which one would you.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Take as a head coach?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Now Game sevens and OKC, but the pressure is all
on the Thunder. The best thing they got going for him.
They're at home and they're good at home. But last
night I thought Indiana got better looks. They played more efficiently.
They were less sloppy, they were more composed. They were
(07:33):
the much better team at the end of the first
half and at the end of the game. Remember the
Pacers got to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. We
forget this. We paid so much attention to the Celtics
and can Denver get back? And we're always talking Lakers
Kyrie Irving and Luca. This team got to the Eastern
Conference Finals last year, but they weren't very good defensively.
(07:54):
Now they're much better defensively with the same great pace
and all these ascending players like Halliburton's getting better. You
can see this, Nasmith, I mean, like the Sea Hawkom's
always been good, right, but this is a team that's
getting better and has more confidence not only year to year,
but series the series.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And here's their coach after.
Speaker 7 (08:17):
This is the kind of team that we are. You know,
we need we need everybody to be ready. It's not
always going to be exactly the same guys that are
stepping up with scoring and stuff like that. But you know,
this is this is how we got to do it,
and we got to do it as a team, and
and you know, we got to make it as hard
(08:37):
as possible on them.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
It really matters that Rick Carlisle's a good coach, because
I don't care if it's football, basketball, hockey, or baseball.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
The better the manager, the better the coach.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
They're better at pulling the right levers, Eric Spolstra, a
Steve Kerr. They just the more levers you can get
them to pull in a series. So and I also
think we're overstating it's it's bad on me, but I
think I kind of felt like going into the series,
you know, like, OKC he's got a better roster.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I'm not so sure of it.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I'm not so.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I think Indiana players were to good defense. And I
think they have so many different types of players, small, quick, long, offensive.
I mean Halliburton, Obi Toppin, Miles Turner, this team at
eleven blocks last night. So I you know, we're all
(09:27):
talking about what the Knicks are going to do and
wait till Tatum's back with the Celtics, and who are
the Lakers going to land?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I look at Carlisle an ascending roster, all sorts of shapes,
styles and sizes and leversed to pull. Got ourselves some
NBA drama. J mag This was fun. Last night was fun.
And I'll tell you what if you start looking at
what Indiana does in the fourth quarter this year, there
was a video that was out. It was I was
introduced to it probably about three weeks ago, and they
(09:55):
showed Halliburton, who you were on like two and a
half years ago, but they showed Halliburton every shot he
took like a minute or less left in the basketball
game to lead er tie guys, like twelve of thirteen.
Like There's always been this feeling among the analytic mavens
that there's no such thing as clutch shooters, like it
(10:17):
all works out with a math. That's not true. But
when you watch Indiana and Halliburton play, that guy is
so good and so confident in big clutch moments. At
some point we have to acknowledge Halliburton is now one
of the NBA's elite closers. It's not always scoring, but
from three point shooting to driving and dishing, he is
(10:41):
one of the league's best closers.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
He was tremendous. I'm surprised you did ten minutes and
we really did not go after SGA, the MVP, the
free throw merchant who somehow escaped criticism for a fourth
quarter when he had one turnover in one basket, Colin,
they wore him down.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Seven different defenders on SGA.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
And if you notice when the Pacers were running offense,
they were attacking him the same way that Pacers attack Brunson.
Remember Brunson was just getting abused. They went at Sga.
He had nothing left in the tank.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Colin.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
I don't know how they the thunder changed this. I'm
shocked that the line is OKC minus six for Game
four on the road. They haven't covered a road game
this postseason, eight against the spread.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
How is OKAC favored here? I don't get it. Well,
I mean, it's pretty clear.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
If Sga doesn't get to the line, they are an
average playoff team on the road. And overall they're four
and four when he's not getting to the line over
eight times, so that's sort of the key if he
does not get the home whistle. And when you and
I talked about this yesterday on the show, we both
liked Indiana and our takeaway was, and you saw it
last night, bench players and young players at home are unbelievable.
(11:52):
Indiana's bench last night, it's one of the great bench.
The second quarter was insane. They just they put starters
on the bench, brought the bench guys in, and they
were dominating Okac. Indiana's bench is not gonna look like
that in the road, and Okac's bench isn't his dynamic
on the road.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
So this is something with stars.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Usually you get your points from your Halliburn's gonna be
good usually all the time. Jokich's Giannis is but those
rotational and bench guys. Home is a different environment completely.
They get confidence, they get energized.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
And the Pacers win this in six because if they win,
they got to win game four. I don't think they're
taking two of three from Okac on the road, right
they got They're not gonna win game seven and Okac'll they'll.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Get run off the court.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I took Okay see in six, I would adjust it
to Okac and seven. I think they're gonna be tough
to beat at home in the game seven.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
And Pacers got to win this in six. That's why
they got to win game four. Ben Matherin, by the way,
what a study. So you call him Russell Westbrook?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Last night?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
No?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
He does he?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
But oh no?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So I went and I looked up his Wikipedia stuff.
He was a hockey guy and a football guy in
a basketball guy. He goes to Arizona, is a dominant
college player, and you know he's a one and done guy.
But he's a guy that when he's on the floor
is just instant energy for them. I mean, you can see, folks,
you can talk about all these players. We're gonna pay
attention to Cooper Flag next year and Wemby and the
(13:12):
young players. This kid is dynamic man.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
He is caught.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
He was like that in Calle. I boughted him like
twice in college. Super confident player.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
And he's confident defending SGA Game one in Game three,
he did a great job. He's like a physical dude.
You can't just push him off like SGA normally does.
I'm all about the series, Colin.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's fun.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Neon Easter non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one, and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
App Storytime Uncle Colin. So, there were these two scientists
back in like the sixties for three M, the company
three M, and they were trying to create this super
strong adhesive for the aerospace industry. But even though they're
scientists and smart guys. They ended up created a much
(14:01):
weaker adhesive that was very removable, and that became post
it notes, which are probably more important anyway. But the
point being is they stumbled into wild success. And I
think that's what the Cleveland Browns have done. The coach
in the GM did not want to, They didn't want
to draft Shador Sanders, and they did in the fifth round,
(14:23):
two rounds after Dylan Gabriel, and he's crushing it. He's
their best quarterback in camp calling call you, he's facing backups,
he's throwing to him as well. Sometimes just stumbling to success.
It's not a straight line. It's not linear. Brady with
the Patriots brought Purty to the Niners, Kurt Warner to
the Rams. It's not always a straight line. So the
(14:44):
staff because they picked and the GM because they picked
Dylan Gabriel third round and shoudu Her fifth, they're given
Dylan Gabriel most of the first team reps.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
But not all of them. Now, not all of them.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
The coaching staff cannot deny what's happening. And here's the difference.
Let's forget Flacco for a second. He'll probably start and
Kenny Pickett's not the future. Let's concentrate on the two kids.
Shadueur Sanders is thirty four of forty four nine touchdowns
one pick, the most accurate quarterback easily in camp seventy
(15:23):
seven percent. Dylan Gabriel is the least of the four
accurate quarterbacks fifty four percent.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay, So I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
They're all thrown to the same guys, same protection, same
coaching staff, and that's why you got to be careful.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Abou Dylan Gabriel.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
If you just talk about Shader Sanders and Dylan Gabriel,
they did not have similar college experiences. Okay, Shaduur Sanders
has Travis Hunter and a bunch of non Sunday players.
Dylan Gabriel went from powerhouse Oklahoma to powerhouse Oregon and Oregon.
Outside of Ohio, State, Texas, and Georgia, Oregon had the
most guys drafted, had ten guys drafted. NFL receivers left
(16:02):
tackles right, So so Dylan Gabriel's playing with pros, pros everywhere.
Receiver Rams drafted their tight end, the receivers they're left
tackle pros everywhere. Great staff, one of the highest paid
staffs in the country. Shadur Sanders had Travis Hunter who
(16:23):
got doubled and tripled. So it's just like you and not.
You can't compare a Yale GPA to a community college GPA.
But if you give them a standardized test, or they're
taking a bar to be an attorney, Okay, now it's fair.
So that's why I think I don't want to hear
about what what Dylan Gabriel did in college.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Shadur didn't have that experience.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
The OTA in the mini camps, that's the standardized test.
That's same guys, same staff, same calls. One guy's complete
and almost eighty percent, one guy fifty four percent.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And you know, again, I.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Go back to what the scouts say, like lan zerline,
if you go back and look at the scouting report,
you know they acknowledge that Shador didn't have a great arm,
but Dylan had size, arm, release, mobility, as all sorts
of questions. So I don't care that he dominated it Oregon.
You know, it's like it's like a lot of quarterbacks
(17:18):
crush at Oregon. They've got great They've been a powerhouse
for twenty plus years. Chador Sanders on just you know,
humbly trying to work his way up the depth chart.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
You could view things as you're not getting reps in
a negative way, or you could view it as, Okay,
when's my time to get out there. Let's be proactive
and let's get warm, let's get going. So there's no
excuses because when you get out there, nobody cares how
they reps you got. Whenever you get in the game,
nobody cares if you took a snap before you know that.
They care about Everybody cares about production. So that's the
(17:53):
main thing. When you get out there, you got to
be able to produce.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Sounds like a sound like a franchise quarterback to me,
like what I'm hearing. But again, same plays, same receivers,
same tight end, same protection. Put that graph up again.
The numbers are the numbers. Shadeur is crushing it thirty
(18:21):
four or forty four.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
His balls aren't hitting the ground.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Eastern, not a em Pacific.
Speaker 9 (18:29):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 10 (18:37):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber this name.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
And me, Well, you know what it's called over promise.
You should be good at it because you've been over
promising women for years.
Speaker 10 (18:56):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 9 (19:10):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 10 (19:20):
There you go, over Promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
One of the things I really like about Tyrese Halliburton
is how comfortable he is with TJ McConnell taking over
the game. Are any other young player getting his and
I think that's hard, Like point guards Steph Curry's like that,
(19:56):
but Steph always gets his. So I just there's an
iq eq self awareness with Halliburton. I mean, last night,
like he was TJ McConnell's biggest fan. Paul Pierce nineteen
years the Hall of Famer is now joining us. Every
not every teammate Paul is like that. Not every teammate's
happy when you get yours in Boston, you guys were stars.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You're a star.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Rondo wanted the ball, you had, Ray Allen, you had KG.
Haliburton generally appears joyful on winning more than everything in
your career.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Is that common?
Speaker 11 (20:34):
Wow, that's a great question. It depends on type of
leader you got in the locker room, It depends on
what's driving them, and it depends on like what's the goal.
What are we trying to accomplish? You know, people talk
about winning, but are they willing to do the necessary
things to help them win or is it just more
about them? And I don't see that about Halliburton, it
being about him. He just wants to win. And the thing,
(20:57):
and I said this yesterday on the Speed, I said,
like his play is uncommon in today. His play is unorthodox,
which is which is strange because when you look at
the common point guards of today, he's a traditional point
guard in my era today, he's unorthodox, right, you know
(21:18):
what I'm saying, Like he's a pass first point guard.
And that's why people don't look at him like a superstar.
And that's why. But his effect on the game is
the same as a superstar. And that's what I've been
trying to tell people.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, was you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
It is the playoffs, especially these playoffs, you don't get
the whistle.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I mean, they're gonna let you play.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I thought a big part of this last night was
a SG didn't get to the free throw line. This
team is four and four in the playoffs when he
doesn't get eight or more free throws. Some of this
is James Harden was totally reliant on the whistle. You weren't, Kobe.
He wasn't. But that's not a knock on SGA. But
(22:03):
the record is clear. Yeah, because home Grin's game is
still a little uneven. You're never quite sure what you get.
Last night, lou Dort hit threes. I think Sga is
a little whistle dependent.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Is that fair?
Speaker 11 (22:21):
You know it's fifty to fifty with him because some
nights he gets the whistle. I mean, he's still good
for twenty five to thirty, you know. I mean, think
about it. He had had twenty four last night, didn't
get the whistle. I mean, he could still put the
ball in the bucket. But I think he's just getting
worn down common he's getting worn down. Did you see
at the end of the game, they're picking him up full.
(22:42):
They're playing the long game. They're like, all right, he
may get us in the beginning, but were gonna pick
a full court by time that fourth quarter come. He's
gonna be so worn down because he has to do
it on both ends of the court. He has to defend,
because Indiana's making them defend too.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 11 (22:58):
You know they throwing picks on them, The isling them
pretty hard, and they're picking up full.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
That wears on you. I've been on other the gays, like.
Speaker 11 (23:05):
You just getting picked up full court or somebody just
on your body at all times. That wears you down
throughout the course of the game, and in the fourth
quarter when you got to do so much for your team.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
It's draining.
Speaker 11 (23:16):
It's draining when you when you got those guys who
don't hit the shots. Now you got to get back
on defense. It's draining when they score and then you
take the ball out. I get it, and I'm the
point guard, and they picking me up baseline the baseline,
and that's what I'm seeing right there.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
They're getting tired. It's clear.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I want to shift to the New York Knicks. Rachel
Nichol was on an hour ago. Rachael Nichols, I, my
take is, if you're going to fire anybody in any position,
you gotta have a plan. You got to have somebody
in the waiting in the car, waiting in the sedan
outside ready to come in. It doesn't sound like the
Knicks had a plan. What was your kind of take
(23:56):
on the firing at TIBs.
Speaker 11 (23:58):
I thought it was kind of unjust based on you
know what Tims was able to accomplish this year. You know,
he got them to the conference finals, and I think
he maxed out the team because everybody saw the Knicks
for what they worked throughout the regular season, and everybody
was like, Okay, yeah, they're a second.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Round exit team, right right.
Speaker 11 (24:19):
They made it to the conference finals one a lot
of games in the regular season. But I think their roster,
based on other other rosters I'm looking at in the
Eastern Conference, I think he maxed them out.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
They were deficient.
Speaker 11 (24:31):
They didn't have a bench, and even if Timms didn't
play him, when he did play them, I mean, how
productive were they Because when you look at the likes
of Indiana, when you look at Boston and teams of
that nature in the Eastern Conference, these guys had depth
and that's something that the Knicks were front heavy. So
I think he maxed out the rosters. So I don't
think a coach coming in the roster is what the
(24:55):
roster is the coach, it's not the coach. You're gonna
have to get more pieces for this team to get
over the hump.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
I don't care who you bring in. You can bring
in Red all Back, you can bring in Phil Jackson.
This team maxed.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Out, you know, Paul, It's interesting we forget they had
Hartenstein and Dante Devenchenza last year and Dante's a great
three point shooter. How many times in the next series
did we go, God, they need one more guy to
hit a three.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
They had him. He's off to Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
So they lost really valuable pieces and it showed up
against Indiana.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Man, I'm telling you, I tell people this.
Speaker 11 (25:30):
If they didn't make no Trader stood Pat they were
injured last year.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah, all they had to do was stan Pat.
Speaker 11 (25:37):
If they stand Pat, we're not We're probably talking about
the Knicks in the finals. Because you would have had depth.
You would have had more experienced from a year ago.
Randall would have gave you pretty much what Kat gave
you on both ends of the court, but you would
have had to depth. You would have had guys off
the bach that you can depend on. So you know,
(25:58):
it is what it is moving forward. I don't know
than they go from here as far as coaching, but
they're right there. Take nothing away from they're right there.
They're a piece away. No matter what coach you bring in,
they're a piece away.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So this is one of the better domestic drafts. Last
year was a heavy international draft. We got Duke players,
Rutgers players, there's a lot of American kids in this draft.
Cooper Flags the overwhelming favorite. I have made the comp
that I think he's a more aggressive Jason Tatum. Maybe
(26:28):
not today, but that's how I see the comp.
Speaker 11 (26:30):
You don't like that comp, Kylin, if you don't get
out of here with that.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
Talk about Jason Tatum.
Speaker 11 (26:37):
So you're telling me that Cooper Flags offensive package is
equivalent to Jason Tatum, a guy who's average thirty in
the league twenty eight, twenty seven. You think Cooper can do?
I love Cooper and I love what he's done, you
know throughout his career. He's a young guy too. I
look at him more of like a andre Kerlinko. You know,
(26:59):
he can play both ends. Maybe a little more offense
than Carolinko, but you gotta stay at Carolinko was an
all star in this team in this league.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Do I see him as a superstar?
Speaker 11 (27:11):
I don't know yet. I'm not quite sure yet. You know,
how is he in the pick and roll? How is
he initiating offense?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
How is he?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
You know?
Speaker 11 (27:21):
Got to look at other things. When I look at
primary scorers and guys who lead their team. How is
this playmaking? You know, off the dribble, when he's getting trapped,
when he's in different situations.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Now, he's still young and he'll learn these things.
Speaker 11 (27:34):
But I saw those things from Jason Tatum at Duke,
already playing a pick and roll, playing on the ball,
initiating offense off the ball, on the ball.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
So will he be an impact player in the league.
Speaker 11 (27:45):
I believe so, because he does too many things to
not be an impact. Offensively, he can knock down shots. Defensively,
he's a tear. His engine is a talent, and that's
something that people don't talk about. Having that type of
motor is a talent in this league, because when I
think about motor, there's only a certain few guys that
have a motor that that's head and shoulders above everybody.
(28:06):
When you talk about Auntie Takoupo. When guys like Westbrook,
you know that that's just that extra umph and he
has that.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
By the way, Cooper averaged nineteen a game at Duke
as a freshman. Tatum averaged seventeen, So they were very similar.
I do think even Tatum's dad has mentioned this. I
think Cooper's a more aggressive player, and that's just that's
almost DNA stuff. I can't explain it. They're just guys
that want the shot.
Speaker 11 (28:31):
I agree with that he's a more aggressive player as
far as attacking the basket, because I don't think he's
a good a shooter as Tatum either, though that's fair,
you know, so you go to take one, give one
like I was more like Tatum's probably was.
Speaker 8 (28:45):
Well.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I wouldn't say a better shooter, but I like to
attack the basket.
Speaker 11 (28:49):
I mean, you know it, just like you said, it's
in the DNA, and it's also what the coaches are
allowing allowing these guys. Uh, you know when I look
at the Cellish, I mean they're a three point heavy
shoot team. I was thinking about it this morning when
I watched the finals Colin. I saw that the both
teams combined to shoot. I believe it was like twenty
seven threes and twenty to like forty nine threes combined.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
And I've seen on.
Speaker 11 (29:11):
Multiple occasions, you know, the Celtics shoot fifty plus threes
and it's just like wow.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
By the way, do you think the Celtics go for
Giannis make a big move move? Jalen Brown Like, what
is your feeling on what Boston does you have a
sense of that culture.
Speaker 11 (29:27):
I'm not sure it'd be necessary to go for a
Janis as long as Jason Tatum is out and I
don't know the timetable on when he come back in
even if he does come back, he won't be the
Jason Tatum that we saw leaving the playoffs. You know,
it's gonna take some time to get back to that.
You know, if it were me, I kind of like
let the year play out and make decisions. I wouldn't
be too fast to make decisions. I'll see where the
(29:49):
team is and what direction we're going in, and if
there's something I can do at the trade deadline that's
gonna be benefit them in the long run or even
in the now, I'll make that move. But like I
wouldn't just be like, well, Jason's hurt, let's throw away
the year. I'm gonna sit back and see and be patient,
because most of the times, when you make these hasty
decisions and decisions that are too quick, you most likely
(30:13):
make the wrong decision on the team.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
So I hope they just sit back and be patient
and see what they need.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
So you have the most all time game winning buzzer
beaters made or assistant on regular and postseason Indiana is
the most clutched team in the playoffs, nine and one
in clutch time. Oklahoma City, because they won by an
average of thirteen points in the regular season, is a
really young team that hasn't been in a lot of
close games. I thought down the stretch the last six
(30:40):
minutes last night, I thought Oklahoma City shot creation was bad.
I didn't think they got good looks. I thought Indiana
just got better looks. And I thought to myself, Indiana
lives in these kind of games. They're in these games
every night, and I feel like, oh, it's a little
bit of a negative with Okac Paul, it's like a
football team that blows there. I always feel about the
(31:01):
Baltimore Ravens with Lamar. They blow so many people out
in the regular season. They're not used to a one
possession game. And I think Okase looked a little off
late last night.
Speaker 11 (31:10):
Well, yeah, those teams are front runners, Collins, and there's
nothing wrong with that, because I've seen front running teams win. Uh,
It's just that they're not used to being in that
situation when you're blowing teams out at a historic rate. Now,
when the game is close and tight and it's starting
to set in. They panic, and that's what that's what
(31:32):
we call front runners. I mean, look at the numbers.
If you just look at the numbers in the fourth
quarter alone in this series, it's it's drastic how Indiana
is out playing in the fourth quarter when the game
is tight. Indiana got better and it just look at
the GGC last night. They missed free throws they don't
(31:52):
normally miss. I see, I saw Jalen. I saw Jalen
miss what three was it? Three or four straight free throws?
And then it was like, whoa, it was obvious. If
it wasn't obvious before, it was obvious last night just
at the free throw line alone that you were like, whoa,
it got tight in there. And to their credit, they're
(32:14):
a young team. And I said this, this is why
I picked the Indiana Pacers. People don't understand, Like when
I watched them top the bottom coaching their stars and
you asked me, like, what, who are their stars? That's right,
we don't know because it's a different start every single night,
and that's what makes them tough to play. Like what
am I doing If I'm okay, see and I'm in
(32:35):
the locker room saying, oh, we have to prepare for
Nie Smith and them hard. Oh but they didn't show
up yesterday. Oh but now Matherin goes for twenty six.
It's so unpredictable. And that's why I picked them those
teams for me, Colin, when we you know, it's the
toughest games for me to play in.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Say like we playing a team and.
Speaker 11 (32:54):
The star was out, So now you're like, oh, it's
easy to prepare for what I know.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
I know what he is. It's easy to prepare for that.
Speaker 11 (33:01):
But when now the unpredictable ability sets in, it's like
anybody can go off and that's who Indiana is. It's
so unpredictable it's tough to prepare for them.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, if Sylcam had twenty nine points next game, you
wouldn't be surprised by that at all.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And if he had seven, you wouldn't be surprised. I mean, look,
t J McConnell took over the game in the second quarter.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Crazy right, right, They have so many unsuck heroes. I'll
tell you this story.
Speaker 11 (33:29):
We were at the end of the year in twenty
and ten and we're asked we were positioning ourselves for
the playoffs, and we were like, all right, should we
win these games or lose these games? Should we rest
and get ready? It was our seat and was on
the line, and we got into the meeting and me
Rondo ray keg he said, whould y'all rather play in
the second round? I think it was like Orlando and
Cleveland because Orlando it was like a two seed and
(33:50):
Cleveland was a one seed. We were like, let's play
the number one seed in the second round with Lebron.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
It's easier for us. It's easier for us.
Speaker 11 (33:57):
To prepare for him because we know it's all about him.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Now.
Speaker 11 (34:01):
That Orlando team was a little more in predictable. Yeah,
they got Dwighte, but they got Turgolou, Rashard Lewis, Jamiir
Nelson here, they got all these other guys. That's like
a little I don't know who's gonna be the next
start on any given night. Lebron in Cleveland was easier
to prepare for, even though they were the number one
seed and won sixty six games.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Paul Pierce the Hall of Famer, He's on speak after
us good seniors.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Olsm Man always
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Colin Cowherd
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