July 1, 2025 • 37 mins
Colin discusses the passive approach to free agency by the Lakers and the message the new ownership group is sending to LeBron James and Luka Doncic. He can’t understand what the Steelers are doing after trading for Jalen Ramsey and dragging out contract negotiations with TJ Watt. Colin also talks to 3-time National Champion head coach Urban Meyer about BIG 10 closing the gap on the SEC and why Penn State might be the best team in country
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday, NBA Free Agency
in full swing. We are live. It is the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be watching
or listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Tyler Adams, US men's national team, Urban Meyer, Albert rereerstop
by today. J Mac. It was a if you're a
(00:51):
Laker fan, it was a disheartening day. But they got
new owners and new owners have come. You know, you
ever drive by that restaurant, it says under new man
management and they're going to change the entire menu. They're
not going to tweak. So I think I want to
read everybody, J Mack. The headlines that are circulating about
the Lakers, who are the biggest brand in the NBA.
The Yankees of Major League Baseball. These are the headlines
(01:13):
this morning. Lakers reportedly preserving cap space for next season.
Dorian Finney Smith exits disaster. Lakers gave up three draft
picks for less than fifty games of Dorian Phinney Smith.
Jim rob Palinka facing mounting pressure to keep the Lakers job,
(01:35):
and I like this one. Lebron James has no influence
on free agency moves, says an NBA front office insider.
The Lakers are excluding him, they should. He's forty one.
So the Bus family for years has talked themselves into believing,
I get it, this is their life. They talked themselves
into believing we were just a rotational player. And the
(02:01):
new owners of this restaurant are saying, no, no, no, no, no,
it's just not a little better chicken parm recipe. We're
changing the kitchen staff, we're changing the entire menu. This
is not about a better chicken parm. It's a forty
one year old star, another star in Luca where it's
(02:21):
notable that he's really working out this offseason, and they
have absolutely no size and the real value they have
is Austin Reeves. But another headline today they are not
even taking calls or gauging interest on Austin Reeves. So
the new owners, they know what success is all about.
They own the Dodgers, and I've argued this before. I
(02:44):
think the Dodgers, Mark Walters, I think it's the best
run sports franchise in North America perhaps ever. These people
know what they're doing. They let stars go if they
see problems around the corner. And so this morning it
appears they're going big game hunting next year. They do
(03:05):
not think this is a championship team. They're not going
to lose any sleep over Lebron being bummed out. They're
going to upgrade scouting and my guests, they are eventually
going to find their wizard, their guru, their GM. So
the Lakers need two centers. Like yesterday, the good ones
are off the market. Clint Capella, he's back to the Rockets,
(03:27):
Luke Cornett Celtics. Now he's the Spurgs, and Brook Lopez
to the Clippers. So let's not forget this. Put the
palm palms down. The Lakers got throttled in the first round.
They lost convincingly in the first round, and they are
worse today. Without Dorian Finney Smith. They are worse today.
(03:47):
You know who's not worse, Houston. Houston is better. You
know who's not worse Denver. You know who's getting better fast,
san Antonio. So the ownership group knows what success looks like. Okay,
these new owners are antique experts, and they're telling Laker
fans this rosters a knockoff. I know what Grandma told you.
(04:10):
It's not a van Go. This isn't it. The new
Laker owners are telling you we know what titles looks like,
and an aging Lebron and a finally working out in
the offseason. Luca is not O, Tawni Betts and Freddie Freeman.
I know it's painful, and I understand the bus family
for years. This is their baby, this is their child,
(04:34):
and they always believe, just like we all do as parents,
our kid's gonna be president of the United States. Okay,
maybe president of a company. Okay, hopefully president of a frat. Okay,
maybe a vice president of something. You gotta be honest,
you have to be able to self evaluate. This is
(04:54):
not a championship team. Look what Denver's done in the
last twenty four hours. They finally got jokid sh shooters
multiple and a backup. Big San Antonio is getting better
by the hour with all their youth. Houston added more pieces.
Oklahoma City I've not even mentioned them, and the brain
trust in Golden State. They already got their sidekick the staff,
(05:17):
Jimmy Butler last year. So it's just you gotta be
honest about this stuff. People in Los Angeles. You know
what well run looks like. You know what championships looks like.
It's called the Dodgers, usc the Lakers, the Chargers a
little bit until Harbaugh. Yeah, they're selling you on that,
and that's not what it is. So the Rams brilliantly run,
(05:38):
the Dodgers immaculately run the Lakers mom and pop shop.
It's all changing big game hunting next year. Not including
Lebron in the discussions. He's had a great career. He
should not be dictating any terms at this point, not
saying you trade him. We're gonna do the new guys
(05:59):
say we're going to do what we're gonna do, because
we know what winning looks like. It's Otanian Bett, not
forty one year old Lebron and perpetually out of shape
or an average shape. Luca. Okay, here's another one. This
is interesting this headline. The Steelers are officially all in.
I heard that a lot yesterday because they got Jalen Ramsey,
(06:21):
Aaron Rodgers, DK Metcalf, and tight end John Husmith. Well,
if they're all in, that's a pair of eights. Okay,
that ain't pocket Ace's folks. So if that's all in,
but it's I always. I was asking somebody about three
weeks ago, three or four weeks ago about all the Steelers' moves,
(06:41):
and he said, some gms just make moves to make moves,
but do they have a plan. And it's a prime example.
So they get rid of a safety who's a little
past his prime, and they add a corner who's more
expensive Jalen Ramsey who's past his prime. They get rid
of a very high maintenance wider resh receiver in George Pickens,
(07:02):
and then they inherit a wide receiver who can be
high maintenance. DK Metcalf, you're just making moves to make moves.
There is no plan. If you would have moved off
George Pickens and acquired Terry mcclaurin the adult in the room, Okay,
that's a move I'd get. So you're letting go of
a guy passed his prime in the secondary and getting
a more expensive guy passed his prime in the secondary.
(07:24):
That's just a move to make a move. Well, we're
getting rid of a high maintenance receiver and getting another
receiver who's a bit high maintenance. You're just making moves
to make moves. You lost your left tackle. Nagieris George Pickens,
Mika Fitzpatrick, and I saw who you've added. I would
argue you're slightly less talented today. So this goes there's
no pattern with it. And this is what I've said
(07:46):
about the Steelers is that they're on the wrong side
of the ball. All their money now is tied up
in defense. They got more expensive moving off Minca for
Jalen Ramsey. Wrong, just move off Minca. Stop there. And
these are not moves that make any sense. They're basically
(08:06):
the Steelers of the kid who pays off his student
debt and puts it on a credit card. Yeah, I
got rid of that debt. No it's still debt, bro,
you still got debt at a higher interest rate. That
may make you feel better. And remember this is an
organization that has not signed TJ. Watt yet. So when TJ.
Watt signs at least for probably a period maybe six months,
(08:30):
maybe less than that, he'll be the highest paid defensive
player in NFL history. So we're not even talking about
that yet. And you've got to get that done, TJ. Watt.
I mean, there's jerseys are all over the stadium. That's
going to be a terribly sensitive thing. All these moves.
What do they mean. Well, Matt Hasselback yesterday said here's
what he thinks. The Jalen Ramsey move means.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
They do not care about the rest of the league.
They don't care about what anybody else does. They say, Hey,
we're the Steelers. This is how we operate. I don't
think that's going to change. But I do think this
it looks like they're building a team to stop the
Cincinnati Bengals. It's almost like they have confidence in what
they have, like what we have can take care of
the Baltimore Ravens, Like we're good. But like, man, I
(09:15):
don't know how we're going to stop the Cincinnati Bengals.
Like I do believe that there's a fear there of
like personnel wise, we don't match up well.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well, A lot of teams matched up Okay, with Cincinnati
because the Bengals didn't even make the playoffs. So if
that's your concern, I go back to being concerned about
Baltimore because the Ravens have separated over the last several
years from the Steelers since he didn't even make the playoffs. Okay,
j Mac, let me bring in here. The Austin Reeves
thing is interesting because obviously that's the piece that is,
(09:47):
he's one of the few underpaid players in the NBA,
scoring about nineteen twenty a game. The Lakers are saying
now they're not going to gauge interest, but I do
think it's interesting the two things that jump out to
me Braun's not being included at all. I do think
the bus family felt like because of the COVID title
and the merchandise sales, they sort of owed Lebron something
(10:09):
a heads up that's done. And the other thing is
we're gonna go big game, honey next year. They've been
very I mean that that's a pretty clear signal that Lebron,
we know you want championships. But getting rid of Dori
and Finney Smith not getting rid of him, him leaving
and then inheriting some small guard who's on you know,
a young kid, but on like his third team. What's
(10:30):
the message to Lebron. It's bro, We're not We're not
a championship team. That's what the ownership is saying to me.
We are gonna figure out scouting upstairs, executives roster. Next
year is the big year.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah, and next year it sounds like the Bucks are
gonna keep Giannis and make it.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Try to make it go this year.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well next summer, maybe jannest is like, hey, I'm done,
it's over.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
And then Luca and Jannis joined forces in La.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
But let me ask you, if you're Lebron and you're
reading the tea leaves, are.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You like, you know what, guys, just get me to
the East. Just trade me Lakers.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
We're not winning anything. I can't We're not a top
five team in the West.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Send me to the East. I could get to the finals.
Does he Do you think Lebron would actually do that?
Speaker 6 (11:14):
No?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I think Lebron's business and it's a fair question. I
think Lebron has to look at it like this. He
knew his first couple of years in the league. He's
a smart guy. He knew the first couple years in
Cleveland out of high school. They were not a championship team.
In fact, getting to the finals against the Spurs, despite
the fact they were swept, they were ahead of schedule.
Oh wait, From about that year on until this past year,
(11:36):
Lebron has felt like the team he has is a
championship level team. But at some point you have to
acknowledge Michael Jordan did when he went to the Wizards.
You know, Shaq was bouncing around the league. He knew
the last three or four years he was not a
championship team. I think Lebron is smart enough to know.
This is the first year in maybe fifteen years, Lebron,
you have to go back to that getting swept by
(11:57):
the Spurs, and I'm sure going into that final Lebron
thought he had a chance. This is the first time
in a long time that Lebron sort of being told
without being directly told, dude, it's not about a championship.
The organization is first, second, and third. You've had a
great run, but we're not gonna include you as we
build going forward.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I get that, McCollen. Let me just remind you, Lebron
was an All NBA player last year. Ever, he's like
twenty five, seven and seven, and he's paired with Luka Doncic,
So you have two of the ten best players in
the league. I don't think you're out of it, but
I definitely think there's an uphill climb in the West.
Like listen, wacky things happen in the East, Jason Tatum
and Aliburton. They look like they were going to be
in the conference finals again next year. They're both out
(12:38):
next season the East and wide open.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Like things can happen. Let's not write the Lakers off
just yet.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Well, remember things do happen, especially to forty one year
olds in their twenty third year. Also that you think
Lebron's gonna play eighty games and forty two minutes, Lebron
has to pace himself. You know who doesn't, Lou dort
Sga Chet Holmgren, Jay, I mean those guys Oklahoma City
can play nine guys a night. The Lakers now have
(13:05):
no center, very little depth, and you know how it works, Jason.
That means, hey, Lebron, we need forty one minutes tonight
and we need twenty nine points. So it'd be one
thing if this was the OKC San Antonio Houston roster
like Kevin Durant's a great example. So they Houston extends
Jabari Smith, who, like Kevin Durant, can shoot. He's got length.
(13:28):
Kevin Durant, you could literally tell him before the season starts,
we're gonna play a sixty four games. We got Jabari
Smith behind you. We want you ready for the playoffs.
Because of the depth, the youth, the legs, and the
athleticism Houston has. Lakers can't do that. They just lost
Orian Phinney Smith, that's one of their better defenders. So
what's gonna happen is Lebron's gonna have to play thirty
eight minutes and score twenty seven points for this to
(13:50):
be in the wet Maybe not in the East, but
in the West. So the great advantage KD saw that
with Houston. Don't I don't shen Goon can drop twenty
eight on any night A men Thompson's coming up. Jabbari
plays my position right behind me. So Lebron is going
to be once again and we don't you know you
cross your fingers on Luca's health. He's in good shape reportedly,
(14:14):
but lucas a guy that misses games, that gets banged up.
There are gonna be nights. So that's Lebron and Austin
Reeves having to both drop twenty eight for them to
beat at best compete with Oka.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
See listen, it's not over. I'm not writing them off
and anything can happen here in the next three four days.
Let's go out and get some guys.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
And get the Lakers back in contention where Lebron.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Needs to be.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (14:45):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
Maller with me and a lot to have you join
us on our weekly auditory journey. You ask, what in
God's name is the Fifth Hour, I'll tell you it's
a spin off of it. Ben Maler show a cult
hit overnights on FSR. Why should you you listen? Picture
if you will a world will We chat with captains
of industry in media, sports, and more every week explore
(15:06):
some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to
the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I think you know I've said this before. If I
didn't do this for a living, my dream job would
be a general manager of an NFL team. And I
just I love the draft. I like building stuff, and
it's been like that since I was a kid. I
just like building stuff. And I think my best sources
in the league I was talking to one last night
are NFL execs, and I loved the sport, and I
(15:35):
always thought, what a cool job. And so it's I
like the idea of when you get into these situations
these executives on would you take an old star or
an emerging young star. That's one of the hard ones.
So everybody loves Luca, right, Luca Luca, But I've made
the argument for years he's a better version of Carmelo Anthony,
(15:56):
and Carmelo is a Hall of Famer two. But it's
very interesting Avery Johnson saying right now he would take
Cooper Flag going forward over Luca.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
Man. Give me Cooper Flag, really, Cooper Flag in this team? Yeah,
give me Cooper Flag.
Speaker 8 (16:15):
Man.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
You're talking about a team when they're healthy, got three
future Hall.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Of famers with Kyrie ad and Klay Thompson.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So this is really exciting.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
The Mavericks their future is bright, but they have a
window when they're healthy. If the next two to three
years with this rostass currently constructed.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So I just want you to think about this. So
Luca has been in the NBA for seven seasons. That's
a grind, and he's been attacked for seven years. Right,
he's a score, so people are throwing bodies at him.
He also played three years in Europe against older players,
so he has been grinding against men for ten years.
And we all know that athletes age differently based on
(16:58):
how good a shape they're in. Well Mello, for instance,
Mike comp for Luca, peaked at twenty eight. By twenty
nine years old, his scoring dropped noticeably, was never again
top ten MVP. Mello aged fast. Lebron at thirty eight,
(17:19):
ten years older than Mellow's peak. I mean he treats
his body like a temple. Twenty nine a game, fifty
percent from the field, All Star Western Conference Finals. Okay,
Tom Brady at forty five was better than Aaron Rodgers
at thirty eight, thirty nine or Big Ben at thirty seven.
So Luca, to me, he is an old soul. Now
(17:39):
he's about twenty six years old. Now he's an old
twenty six and I'm sure he has four more peak
years and Hayes working out this offseason. Cooper Flag may
have twelve peak years, and Cooper Flag day one in
the NBA will be a better defender than Luca. That's
not just uble. Cooper Flag will be a better defender
(18:02):
first week in the league. So to me, if Cooper
Flag is seventy five to eighty five percent, Luca the
offensive player eventually and I get four years of the
rookie deal. Absolutely, And here's the thing about Luca. Here's
the thing about Luca. Twenty five dunks in his rookie
season one dunk last year. We saw that, so you
(18:27):
are the data is clear. Dude is aging. We saw
this with James Harden. His dunk numbers kept going back
down and down and down, and then James Harden is
still good, but he's a limited offensive player on what
he can perform right now. Luca, this is all he
is at twenty six. He's a step back guy. He's
not a playdown hill, attack the rim, dunkover guys. That's
(18:49):
not what he does at twenty six. Athletes age differently.
I would argue Luca is an old twenty six. Cooper
Flag is a young rookie. I mean, Jason Kidd remember
the introductory press conference what Jason Kidd said. Here's Jason Kidd.
Speaker 9 (19:10):
Just sitting here listening to him. Is it incredible. I mean,
we're talking about eighteen year old who has all the
right answers, and it's talking about working out after this.
But you know, when you talk about his gift, he's
a basketball player and he's a winner.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Also, Luca still plays frequently for Slovenia, so you know,
he came into the NBA with three international seasons against
older physical players, seven years in the NBA, being a
lead scorer, score bodies being thrown at him, isn't in
great shape. Mellow is a Hall of Famer. But at
(19:53):
twenty eight, Peaked and that was just one year of college.
He played just one year of college at Syracuse, won
a title, went to the end. Twenty eight Peaked was
not quite the same player an age fast. Remember that
time when he laughed about being a bench guy for Okac.
That's what he was and so and then all of
a sudden, Mellow had to go, yeah, this is what
I am. Luca didn't dunk anymore. He didn't play as
(20:13):
down hill as he used to. And I can like Luca.
I like Luca a lot. I think he's really good.
But I think Laker fans remember the day the Luca
trade was made, the sense was who Lakers are headed
to the finals? They housed Dallas. And then you're like, well, Max, Chris,
he's not bad in eighties, really good when he's healthy.
(20:37):
And I look at Dallas today, if Luca is as
good as you told me, I look at Dallas today,
I look at the Lakers today, next five years. Who
would you rather be? I would rather be Dallas best
frontline in the NBA Hall of Famer, and Ad still
plays on a nightly basis as an elite score and defender,
(20:58):
and here comes Cooper Flagg. So it just there are
certain players the closer you get to them. You know,
I always say this in baseball, nobody knows that team's
bullpen better than the fans of that team. How do
you feel when your team goes to the setup guy?
As a baseball fan in Atlanta, You're like, yeah, I
don't love this. Because baseball is such a long season.
(21:22):
The die hard baseball fans in the city know they're
bullpen better than any member of the media. They're covering it,
they're seeing it every night. How do you feel when
your team goes to the pen and the seventh inning?
And I feel that with Luca, the closer you are
to Luca, it's not just highlights. You get all the warts.
You see that he can't defend, You see that he
can be ball centric and he's gifted. I'm not denying it.
(21:44):
He's great, and I think he's got four years left.
But Cooper Flag, I think you're going to figure out
by the All Star Game. You're like, oh, it looks
pretty good, and Cooper Flag comes in. He does not
have to be a dominant score. Now with dlo there,
d lo A, d didn't have to be a dominant score.
(22:04):
Eighteen play defense gonna do just fine in Dallas now.
Jmack loves Luca. J Mack loves Luca. He likes guys
that shoot. So just saying he's twenty six, he's an
old twenty six Colin.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Colin, my friend, I had to take some notes as
you were driding this down. Obviously tomorrow's a big day
here on the show, so I'm.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Taking some extra notes.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Did you really just say, Luca's basically a step back guy.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Now did you say that that's kind of what he is?
Did he sick?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No more dumbs doesn't.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Teen months ago he put the Mavericks on his back
and took them to the finals.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Then he played in the Olympics in the summer. Then
he got hurt. He barely played the list. He played
fifty games due to the injury. Like, I can't believe
you just called.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
He's been hurt.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
He's guy.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
He has been hurt twice since the Olympics. That's what
happens when you're not in great well.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
They made him run to the finals and he was
running everything on that offense.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Then he played in the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Like, that's a lot. Then he got hurt, and then
they got hurt again.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
He's working out.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Let me just ask you, if Cooper Flag you would
take over Luca. Who is there anybody you're not taking
over Cooper Flag?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean if you yeah, absolutely,
there's there's I mean, yeah, honest, I mean there's. First
of all, Cooper Flag is the best, the best domestic
draft pick since Lebron.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
Okay, are you taking Wemby or Cooper flag right now.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Right now, you take Wemby because he's such a dominant
game altering defensively, you take.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
We Ga or Cooper Flag right now?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Going forward, I'd probably take Cooper flag.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
I would too, And I know that people are gonna
hate that because Sga is amazing, But yeah, so I
would put Cooper flag in that like he's gonna be
pretty soon a top ten guy in the league, probably
within the next five years.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Is that safe to say?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh? I yes, I absolutely And I'm just saying. My
whole point is Avery Johnson said give me Cooper Flag.
And my take is that's what I think, And that's
not a knock on Luca Lucas still a top twelve
player in the league, top ten player depending on the
night and depending on his health. All Right, Hour two
coming up, Urban Meyer, Albert brewin Nor.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Welcome Back. There was about a fifteen year period that
I thought outside of Ohio State, big ten schools just
didn't have the depth of talent that the LSUS and
the Alabama's had. Ohio State was sort of I used
to call him the SEC up North. They had the money,
the facilities, the coaching, but Michigan wann Natty, Buckeyes Wonnernaty.
(24:49):
The two best players in the country next year are
a receiver in a corner Caleb Downs Jeremiah Smith or Buckeyes.
And I think Penn State has the best backfield in
the country. And I think I have the nittneyl winning
a Natty. Although I think it's hard to you know,
the journey through the Big Ten now is tough because
Washington and USC are going to be better. Urban Meyer
is now joining US Urban. For years and years you knew,
(25:11):
and I knew, and the world knew. The SEC was better.
And I don't know. I don't know who's better in
the middle or the tail end. But I think if
you took the top four teams today in the Big Ten,
which would be Ohio State, Penn State, Oregon, and then
we can argue over for I think they are today
as good mine Lean is slightly better than the SEC.
(25:35):
Where are you at having coached in both conferences today.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
The transition of the Big Ten has been phenomenal. On
the triple option, we have James Franklin. We talked about
that because he came into the league a couple of
years after I did. In twenty twelve, calling it wasn't
even close. It was shocking. There were great players in
the Big Ten, but the stadium atmospheres were just okay.
The talent was not there, and the certainly the bottom
(26:02):
half the Big Ten just wasn't very good. That's changed,
that's changed dramatically. The stadium atmospheres are incredible. The addition
of the four teams for the Pac twelve, I mean,
those are four legit teams. And how about this stat
This is interesting. In nine, there were twenty eight players
(26:23):
drafted average in the Big Ten. This past year there
was seventy one. That's overdouble. So how do you measure conferences? Championships?
Big Ten the last two years? And those are two
great teams, the Wolverings and the Buckeys, great teams. But
then the second way to measure at the NFL and
the SECS. I think it's nineteen straight years they've had
(26:45):
more draft picks than everyone else. They still do, but
the Big pen's much closer.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, And I think you know we sometimes because Michigan
and Ohio State and Penn State are such big brands.
We kind of forget about Washington and Oregon. And I've
said this before about Washington. Every time in my life
they've had a great coach, Don James, I mean new
(27:10):
Heisel got him to a Rose Bowl, Chris Peterson, Calin
de Boorr. Every time they have an elite coach, they
end up in a playoff. And I don't think people
in the at least in the South. I think they
do in the Midwest. They don't understand how good Oregon
is as a football program. Whereas the SEC added Texas
and Oklahoma. I think people view those as big brands.
(27:34):
Tell me how you view Oregon and Washington. Forget to
sc for a second. I don't think those schools get
the national respect. But I would argue Oregon and Washington
right now, are Oregon's better than Oklahoma? Washington's on the
same plateau? Where are you on that?
Speaker 8 (27:51):
I think nashally, Oregon's a different it's a different duck,
but it's everybody looks at Oregon now, I mean the uniforms,
the stadium, the success they've had. I think I actually
considered them a blue blood right now, even though they've
not won a national championship. The Washington now I spend
time at Colorado State, I spent time at Utah's recruited out.
(28:14):
West Washington is a diamond and like you said, they've
always had when they have Don James, they have Brick
new Heisl, they have some of those coaches, Chris Peterson,
you're in the national championship hunt. They were just recently
in the championship hunt with Kailen de Bors. So you
added two great brands to the SEC. But I'll tell
you what, you got three legits and you just went
(28:36):
how about this? In the SEC, I count nine teams
that are expected to compete and win a national championship
for years, or just three in the Big Ten outs five,
So they've added. There's been some really strength added to
the Big Ten.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I think a lot of we all know the elite
NFL coaches in it feels like a young man's game.
And I think one of the advantages that Big ten
has now Franklin's a great recruiter, Ryan Day's a great recruiter.
Michigan has always been a solid. I think Dan Lanning's
a great recruiter. Also, a big nil USC now has
(29:16):
the number one twenty twenty six class Jed Fish has
always been. Even at Arizona, you got all sorts of
NFL guys. Is that the reality is the Big Ten
now has excellent recruiting coaches. That feels like a big
part of it. I mean, when you were in the SEC,
who was beating you in the Big Ten for players?
I think there's guys now in the Big Ten that
(29:38):
go down south and pull players up.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
I'm glad you brought that up, because this is this
is real life. I leave the SEC and I come
to Ohio State and there was something called a gentleman's
agreement and the gentleman's coach, Bilama, got really pissed off
at me when we turned a couple players and I
didn't know gentlemen agreement. I'm sure what that means. In
the recruiting you got to go get play years. We
had two kids from Ohio committed to Wisconsin. Then we
(30:03):
got them, we flipped them, and people were saying, well,
you know, in this conference, you don't do that, and
I was like, I don't. I not saw that anywhere
in my contract. That's not against the rules. I got
a job at Ohio State to go win games, so
I'm going to recruit whoever the heck we want to recruit.
So the recruiting has changed dramatically. Like you said, you
(30:24):
think about the Big Ten coaches that are elite recruiters.
I'm not saying they weren't back in twenty twelve, but
there wasn't the emphasis on it is now. And as
a result, look look at the difference. I just told
you seventy one players drafted in the Big Ten Conference
last year compared to twenty eight just ten years ago,
fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, the recruiting has changed in college football. You know,
I don't fight new stuff. If new stuff comes in,
there's new rules, there's new cultures. I'm just gonna you know,
I'm gonna try to figure out, like Rick Patino said
on my show recently, when the world changed, you can
you can fight it, or you can figure out a
way to solve the new world. If you were recruiting now,
(31:06):
let's say you're a Buckeye and and you're recruiting or
a Gator, whatever it is, how would you attack the
nil How would you attack it?
Speaker 8 (31:18):
I would, uh, you've got to get players, and I
would attack it the way the big schools are attacking it.
I would have find out I would have distribution. I
would have a GM. I think Mark Pantoni, the guy
we hired here years ago, he still at Ohio State.
I still talk to him once in a while about
how they do this. But you know, you have to
put emphasis if they're if everybody's abiding by the same rules,
(31:39):
which now they are. A year ago, it wasn't the case.
You could go out and you spend and through the
collectives as much as you can. But I would put
premium on positions a lot like they do the NFL.
You got to pay what you got to pay for
a quarterback, for defense, vents, corners and receivers. You have
to do it. And I'd pay that center, So I would.
I would distribute and build the best team you could
(31:59):
pay we can. And that's that's kind of what the
top teams are doing right now.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, the You know, it's funny how you perceive a
coach and how the public does. I've always loved Sark,
but I've said this about Sark. Great recruiter, great with quarterbacks,
hustler Sometimes on the details, I kind of feel like
he lets the game flow, and occasionally I'll watch him
(32:26):
and think it gets a little away from him, But
again I'm nitpicking. How do you view Sark when you
do a Texas game or you watch Texas? What do
you see it? Does he have a trend? Does he
have a tell like? How do you view Sark? Why?
Speaker 8 (32:43):
I have friends that are around Sark that know him well.
I know him fairly well. He's always been great to me.
I think he's the elite offense. I mean, that's I'm
on to state the obvious first. He's an elite offensive coach.
He was in the NFL, he was in college as
an assistant. As a head coach, they're always going to
be spectacular in all but a lot like Lincoln Riley,
is that you have to grow as a head coach.
(33:05):
You don't get championships for offense. That's not how this
game works. You get championships for great defense, not turning
the ball over, and efficient offense. And I think he's
grown into the position. He's still relatively young, even though
he's had some great jobs. So I view him as
one of the top coaches in the country. And that's
why I got Texas's Well, I haven't picked him for
(33:26):
sure yet, but I'm still studying it. But I think
most people have that preseason number one with a returning quarterback.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You know a program you know well as LSU, and
I like Brian Kelly, but it is a again, you
are recruiting your own players. You're everything's moving, and I
Brian Kelly and Lincoln Riley. I look at him and
I think it doesn't quite look like I think it
should look yet, and Saban got out of it. I
(33:54):
saw in college basketball coach k and Jay Wright are
like a young man's game. I'm getting out of this.
Let's say LSU is okay this year. Now I like
their quarterback. I think they're going to be better than okay.
But is there an argument with all the movement, there's
no off season that for the guys that are post sixty,
(34:14):
it's harder now than it's ever been.
Speaker 8 (34:18):
Well, you got to connect with players, and you look
at the best connecting guys and it's real as the
younger the younger generation, And that's always been kind of
the facts of coaching players. You know you have young
guys on your staff. A big part of that is
what to loard the locker room, to let you know
the locker room. So Brian Kelly, I admire him we're friends.
(34:39):
We coached against each other. I visit his programs, he's
visited mine. To think that he's still coaching. You know,
I didn't see that happening. And then he saw an
opportunity at LSU. And I'll tell you this about Brian.
Kelly's driven and he wants that national championship and you
don't move from South Bend. He did it for one reason,
and that's to go get that crystal balls. So I
(35:00):
know it's driving him and he's he's one of those
guys when he when he pushes really hard, great things happened.
So yeah, I didn't. I didn't see that one happened.
I didn't see him coaching this long. But when he
saw that opportunity showed up at LSU, we actually talked
about it a couple of years ago. He just thinks
that spectacular and the chance he co win it all.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Finally, you guys at Ohio State, you picked up produced
tight end again, another exceptional class. It's Caleb Downs, It's
Jeremiah Smith. Everybody loves the quarterback. If I said, give
me your top three teams in the country just in personnel,
I don't I don't want to look at this schedule.
If I just said, like last year, by the end
(35:40):
of the year, Ohio State had more good players than everybody.
They looked like those Alabama teams where they were like
Tyson in their prime. People were getting intimidated. Name the
three best rosters right now, personnel in America.
Speaker 8 (35:54):
Yeah, you said, you guys at Ohio State. I'm at
Fox I'm not. I know, I know, I was just
I'm just kidding you. Texas, Texas, Ohio State and Penn
State is following the lead of the Wolverines and the Buckeyes,
and that is they have more seniors. Think about this,
colin that I never had a chance to coach fourth
year players. If I did, it is very rare. And
(36:17):
the difference between a fourth year player and a rookie
or a freshman is night and day. You're coaching grown
ass men. You're coaching that's a men's locker room compared
to young person So I watch out for Penn State man.
If Drew Aller can really improves a quarterback, I agree
with you. To get the best backfield, I don't think
it's close in the country. They got an offensive line
(36:37):
that they can't wait to get on the Field. So yeah,
I think Penn State, Texas, and Ohio State are three
most talented.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, Urban Meyer, there's a golf course waiting, There's a
four iron waiting for you to grab it. So I
have fur chased mind.
Speaker 8 (36:53):
I'll see it. Gina and George. Ettie's in Chicago, and.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
DA tell me when you're in town. I'm ready for it. Yeah. Michigan. Uh,
Michigan two years ago. Ohio State last year. Penn States
might call to beat Texas in the National Championship. Uh,
you know, keep your eye on Oregon. Yeah, keep your
eye on Oregon. But I think they're really good. Ohio
State will obviously be good.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday, NBA Free Agency
in full swing. We are live. It is the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be watching
or listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Tyler Adams, US men's national team, Urban Meyer, Albert rereerstop
by today. J Mac. It was a if you're a
(00:51):
Laker fan, it was a disheartening day. But they got
new owners and new owners have come. You know, you
ever drive by that restaurant, it says under new man
management and they're going to change the entire menu. They're
not going to tweak. So I think I want to
read everybody, J Mack. The headlines that are circulating about
the Lakers, who are the biggest brand in the NBA.
The Yankees of Major League Baseball. These are the headlines
(01:13):
this morning. Lakers reportedly preserving cap space for next season.
Dorian Finney Smith exits disaster. Lakers gave up three draft
picks for less than fifty games of Dorian Phinney Smith.
Jim rob Palinka facing mounting pressure to keep the Lakers job,
(01:35):
and I like this one. Lebron James has no influence
on free agency moves, says an NBA front office insider.
The Lakers are excluding him, they should. He's forty one.
So the Bus family for years has talked themselves into believing,
I get it, this is their life. They talked themselves
into believing we were just a rotational player. And the
(02:01):
new owners of this restaurant are saying, no, no, no, no, no,
it's just not a little better chicken parm recipe. We're
changing the kitchen staff, we're changing the entire menu. This
is not about a better chicken parm. It's a forty
one year old star, another star in Luca where it's
(02:21):
notable that he's really working out this offseason, and they
have absolutely no size and the real value they have
is Austin Reeves. But another headline today they are not
even taking calls or gauging interest on Austin Reeves. So
the new owners, they know what success is all about.
They own the Dodgers, and I've argued this before. I
(02:44):
think the Dodgers, Mark Walters, I think it's the best
run sports franchise in North America perhaps ever. These people
know what they're doing. They let stars go if they
see problems around the corner. And so this morning it
appears they're going big game hunting next year. They do
(03:05):
not think this is a championship team. They're not going
to lose any sleep over Lebron being bummed out. They're
going to upgrade scouting and my guests, they are eventually
going to find their wizard, their guru, their GM. So
the Lakers need two centers. Like yesterday, the good ones
are off the market. Clint Capella, he's back to the Rockets,
(03:27):
Luke Cornett Celtics. Now he's the Spurgs, and Brook Lopez
to the Clippers. So let's not forget this. Put the
palm palms down. The Lakers got throttled in the first round.
They lost convincingly in the first round, and they are
worse today. Without Dorian Finney Smith. They are worse today.
(03:47):
You know who's not worse, Houston. Houston is better. You
know who's not worse Denver. You know who's getting better fast,
san Antonio. So the ownership group knows what success looks like. Okay,
these new owners are antique experts, and they're telling Laker
fans this rosters a knockoff. I know what Grandma told you.
(04:10):
It's not a van Go. This isn't it. The new
Laker owners are telling you we know what titles looks like,
and an aging Lebron and a finally working out in
the offseason. Luca is not O, Tawni Betts and Freddie Freeman.
I know it's painful, and I understand the bus family
for years. This is their baby, this is their child,
(04:34):
and they always believe, just like we all do as parents,
our kid's gonna be president of the United States. Okay,
maybe president of a company. Okay, hopefully president of a frat. Okay,
maybe a vice president of something. You gotta be honest,
you have to be able to self evaluate. This is
(04:54):
not a championship team. Look what Denver's done in the
last twenty four hours. They finally got jokid sh shooters
multiple and a backup. Big San Antonio is getting better
by the hour with all their youth. Houston added more pieces.
Oklahoma City I've not even mentioned them, and the brain
trust in Golden State. They already got their sidekick the staff,
(05:17):
Jimmy Butler last year. So it's just you gotta be
honest about this stuff. People in Los Angeles. You know
what well run looks like. You know what championships looks like.
It's called the Dodgers, usc the Lakers, the Chargers a
little bit until Harbaugh. Yeah, they're selling you on that,
and that's not what it is. So the Rams brilliantly run,
(05:38):
the Dodgers immaculately run the Lakers mom and pop shop.
It's all changing big game hunting next year. Not including
Lebron in the discussions. He's had a great career. He
should not be dictating any terms at this point, not
saying you trade him. We're gonna do the new guys
(05:59):
say we're going to do what we're gonna do, because
we know what winning looks like. It's Otanian Bett, not
forty one year old Lebron and perpetually out of shape
or an average shape. Luca. Okay, here's another one. This
is interesting this headline. The Steelers are officially all in.
I heard that a lot yesterday because they got Jalen Ramsey,
(06:21):
Aaron Rodgers, DK Metcalf, and tight end John Husmith. Well,
if they're all in, that's a pair of eights. Okay,
that ain't pocket Ace's folks. So if that's all in,
but it's I always. I was asking somebody about three
weeks ago, three or four weeks ago about all the Steelers' moves,
(06:41):
and he said, some gms just make moves to make moves,
but do they have a plan. And it's a prime example.
So they get rid of a safety who's a little
past his prime, and they add a corner who's more
expensive Jalen Ramsey who's past his prime. They get rid
of a very high maintenance wider resh receiver in George Pickens,
(07:02):
and then they inherit a wide receiver who can be
high maintenance. DK Metcalf, you're just making moves to make moves.
There is no plan. If you would have moved off
George Pickens and acquired Terry mcclaurin the adult in the room, Okay,
that's a move I'd get. So you're letting go of
a guy passed his prime in the secondary and getting
a more expensive guy passed his prime in the secondary.
(07:24):
That's just a move to make a move. Well, we're
getting rid of a high maintenance receiver and getting another
receiver who's a bit high maintenance. You're just making moves
to make moves. You lost your left tackle. Nagieris George Pickens,
Mika Fitzpatrick, and I saw who you've added. I would
argue you're slightly less talented today. So this goes there's
no pattern with it. And this is what I've said
(07:46):
about the Steelers is that they're on the wrong side
of the ball. All their money now is tied up
in defense. They got more expensive moving off Minca for
Jalen Ramsey. Wrong, just move off Minca. Stop there. And
these are not moves that make any sense. They're basically
(08:06):
the Steelers of the kid who pays off his student
debt and puts it on a credit card. Yeah, I
got rid of that debt. No it's still debt, bro,
you still got debt at a higher interest rate. That
may make you feel better. And remember this is an
organization that has not signed TJ. Watt yet. So when TJ.
Watt signs at least for probably a period maybe six months,
(08:30):
maybe less than that, he'll be the highest paid defensive
player in NFL history. So we're not even talking about
that yet. And you've got to get that done, TJ. Watt.
I mean, there's jerseys are all over the stadium. That's
going to be a terribly sensitive thing. All these moves.
What do they mean. Well, Matt Hasselback yesterday said here's
what he thinks. The Jalen Ramsey move means.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
They do not care about the rest of the league.
They don't care about what anybody else does. They say, Hey,
we're the Steelers. This is how we operate. I don't
think that's going to change. But I do think this
it looks like they're building a team to stop the
Cincinnati Bengals. It's almost like they have confidence in what
they have, like what we have can take care of
the Baltimore Ravens, Like we're good. But like, man, I
(09:15):
don't know how we're going to stop the Cincinnati Bengals.
Like I do believe that there's a fear there of
like personnel wise, we don't match up well.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well, A lot of teams matched up Okay, with Cincinnati
because the Bengals didn't even make the playoffs. So if
that's your concern, I go back to being concerned about
Baltimore because the Ravens have separated over the last several
years from the Steelers since he didn't even make the playoffs. Okay,
j Mac, let me bring in here. The Austin Reeves
thing is interesting because obviously that's the piece that is,
(09:47):
he's one of the few underpaid players in the NBA,
scoring about nineteen twenty a game. The Lakers are saying
now they're not going to gauge interest, but I do
think it's interesting the two things that jump out to
me Braun's not being included at all. I do think
the bus family felt like because of the COVID title
and the merchandise sales, they sort of owed Lebron something
(10:09):
a heads up that's done. And the other thing is
we're gonna go big game, honey next year. They've been
very I mean that that's a pretty clear signal that Lebron,
we know you want championships. But getting rid of Dori
and Finney Smith not getting rid of him, him leaving
and then inheriting some small guard who's on you know,
a young kid, but on like his third team. What's
(10:30):
the message to Lebron. It's bro, We're not We're not
a championship team. That's what the ownership is saying to me.
We are gonna figure out scouting upstairs, executives roster. Next
year is the big year.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah, and next year it sounds like the Bucks are
gonna keep Giannis and make it.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Try to make it go this year.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Well next summer, maybe jannest is like, hey, I'm done,
it's over.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
And then Luca and Jannis joined forces in La.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
But let me ask you, if you're Lebron and you're
reading the tea leaves, are.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You like, you know what, guys, just get me to
the East. Just trade me Lakers.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
We're not winning anything. I can't We're not a top
five team in the West.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Send me to the East. I could get to the finals.
Does he Do you think Lebron would actually do that?
Speaker 6 (11:14):
No?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I think Lebron's business and it's a fair question. I
think Lebron has to look at it like this. He
knew his first couple of years in the league. He's
a smart guy. He knew the first couple years in
Cleveland out of high school. They were not a championship team.
In fact, getting to the finals against the Spurs, despite
the fact they were swept, they were ahead of schedule.
Oh wait, From about that year on until this past year,
(11:36):
Lebron has felt like the team he has is a
championship level team. But at some point you have to
acknowledge Michael Jordan did when he went to the Wizards.
You know, Shaq was bouncing around the league. He knew
the last three or four years he was not a
championship team. I think Lebron is smart enough to know.
This is the first year in maybe fifteen years, Lebron,
you have to go back to that getting swept by
(11:57):
the Spurs, and I'm sure going into that final Lebron
thought he had a chance. This is the first time
in a long time that Lebron sort of being told
without being directly told, dude, it's not about a championship.
The organization is first, second, and third. You've had a
great run, but we're not gonna include you as we
build going forward.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I get that, McCollen. Let me just remind you, Lebron
was an All NBA player last year. Ever, he's like
twenty five, seven and seven, and he's paired with Luka Doncic,
So you have two of the ten best players in
the league. I don't think you're out of it, but
I definitely think there's an uphill climb in the West.
Like listen, wacky things happen in the East, Jason Tatum
and Aliburton. They look like they were going to be
in the conference finals again next year. They're both out
(12:38):
next season the East and wide open.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Like things can happen. Let's not write the Lakers off
just yet.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Well, remember things do happen, especially to forty one year
olds in their twenty third year. Also that you think
Lebron's gonna play eighty games and forty two minutes, Lebron
has to pace himself. You know who doesn't, Lou dort
Sga Chet Holmgren, Jay, I mean those guys Oklahoma City
can play nine guys a night. The Lakers now have
(13:05):
no center, very little depth, and you know how it works, Jason.
That means, hey, Lebron, we need forty one minutes tonight
and we need twenty nine points. So it'd be one
thing if this was the OKC San Antonio Houston roster
like Kevin Durant's a great example. So they Houston extends
Jabari Smith, who, like Kevin Durant, can shoot. He's got length.
(13:28):
Kevin Durant, you could literally tell him before the season starts,
we're gonna play a sixty four games. We got Jabari
Smith behind you. We want you ready for the playoffs.
Because of the depth, the youth, the legs, and the
athleticism Houston has. Lakers can't do that. They just lost
Orian Phinney Smith, that's one of their better defenders. So
what's gonna happen is Lebron's gonna have to play thirty
eight minutes and score twenty seven points for this to
(13:50):
be in the wet Maybe not in the East, but
in the West. So the great advantage KD saw that
with Houston. Don't I don't shen Goon can drop twenty
eight on any night A men Thompson's coming up. Jabbari
plays my position right behind me. So Lebron is going
to be once again and we don't you know you
cross your fingers on Luca's health. He's in good shape reportedly,
(14:14):
but lucas a guy that misses games, that gets banged up.
There are gonna be nights. So that's Lebron and Austin
Reeves having to both drop twenty eight for them to
beat at best compete with Oka.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
See listen, it's not over. I'm not writing them off
and anything can happen here in the next three four days.
Let's go out and get some guys.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
And get the Lakers back in contention where Lebron.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
Needs to be.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (14:45):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
Maller with me and a lot to have you join
us on our weekly auditory journey. You ask, what in
God's name is the Fifth Hour, I'll tell you it's
a spin off of it. Ben Maler show a cult
hit overnights on FSR. Why should you you listen? Picture
if you will a world will We chat with captains
of industry in media, sports, and more every week explore
(15:06):
some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to
the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I think you know I've said this before. If I
didn't do this for a living, my dream job would
be a general manager of an NFL team. And I
just I love the draft. I like building stuff, and
it's been like that since I was a kid. I
just like building stuff. And I think my best sources
in the league I was talking to one last night
are NFL execs, and I loved the sport, and I
(15:35):
always thought, what a cool job. And so it's I
like the idea of when you get into these situations
these executives on would you take an old star or
an emerging young star. That's one of the hard ones.
So everybody loves Luca, right, Luca Luca, But I've made
the argument for years he's a better version of Carmelo Anthony,
(15:56):
and Carmelo is a Hall of Famer two. But it's
very interesting Avery Johnson saying right now he would take
Cooper Flag going forward over Luca.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
Man. Give me Cooper Flag, really, Cooper Flag in this team? Yeah,
give me Cooper Flag.
Speaker 8 (16:15):
Man.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
You're talking about a team when they're healthy, got three
future Hall.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Of famers with Kyrie ad and Klay Thompson.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So this is really exciting.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
The Mavericks their future is bright, but they have a
window when they're healthy. If the next two to three
years with this rostass currently constructed.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So I just want you to think about this. So
Luca has been in the NBA for seven seasons. That's
a grind, and he's been attacked for seven years. Right,
he's a score, so people are throwing bodies at him.
He also played three years in Europe against older players,
so he has been grinding against men for ten years.
And we all know that athletes age differently based on
(16:58):
how good a shape they're in. Well Mello, for instance,
Mike comp for Luca, peaked at twenty eight. By twenty
nine years old, his scoring dropped noticeably, was never again
top ten MVP. Mello aged fast. Lebron at thirty eight,
(17:19):
ten years older than Mellow's peak. I mean he treats
his body like a temple. Twenty nine a game, fifty
percent from the field, All Star Western Conference Finals. Okay,
Tom Brady at forty five was better than Aaron Rodgers
at thirty eight, thirty nine or Big Ben at thirty seven.
So Luca, to me, he is an old soul. Now
(17:39):
he's about twenty six years old. Now he's an old
twenty six and I'm sure he has four more peak
years and Hayes working out this offseason. Cooper Flag may
have twelve peak years, and Cooper Flag day one in
the NBA will be a better defender than Luca. That's
not just uble. Cooper Flag will be a better defender
(18:02):
first week in the league. So to me, if Cooper
Flag is seventy five to eighty five percent, Luca the
offensive player eventually and I get four years of the
rookie deal. Absolutely, And here's the thing about Luca. Here's
the thing about Luca. Twenty five dunks in his rookie
season one dunk last year. We saw that, so you
(18:27):
are the data is clear. Dude is aging. We saw
this with James Harden. His dunk numbers kept going back
down and down and down, and then James Harden is
still good, but he's a limited offensive player on what
he can perform right now. Luca, this is all he
is at twenty six. He's a step back guy. He's
not a playdown hill, attack the rim, dunkover guys. That's
(18:49):
not what he does at twenty six. Athletes age differently.
I would argue Luca is an old twenty six. Cooper
Flag is a young rookie. I mean, Jason Kidd remember
the introductory press conference what Jason Kidd said. Here's Jason Kidd.
Speaker 9 (19:10):
Just sitting here listening to him. Is it incredible. I mean,
we're talking about eighteen year old who has all the
right answers, and it's talking about working out after this.
But you know, when you talk about his gift, he's
a basketball player and he's a winner.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Also, Luca still plays frequently for Slovenia, so you know,
he came into the NBA with three international seasons against
older physical players, seven years in the NBA, being a
lead scorer, score bodies being thrown at him, isn't in
great shape. Mellow is a Hall of Famer. But at
(19:53):
twenty eight, Peaked and that was just one year of college.
He played just one year of college at Syracuse, won
a title, went to the end. Twenty eight Peaked was
not quite the same player an age fast. Remember that
time when he laughed about being a bench guy for Okac.
That's what he was and so and then all of
a sudden, Mellow had to go, yeah, this is what
I am. Luca didn't dunk anymore. He didn't play as
(20:13):
down hill as he used to. And I can like Luca.
I like Luca a lot. I think he's really good.
But I think Laker fans remember the day the Luca
trade was made, the sense was who Lakers are headed
to the finals? They housed Dallas. And then you're like, well, Max, Chris,
he's not bad in eighties, really good when he's healthy.
(20:37):
And I look at Dallas today, if Luca is as
good as you told me, I look at Dallas today,
I look at the Lakers today, next five years. Who
would you rather be? I would rather be Dallas best
frontline in the NBA Hall of Famer, and Ad still
plays on a nightly basis as an elite score and defender,
(20:58):
and here comes Cooper Flagg. So it just there are
certain players the closer you get to them. You know,
I always say this in baseball, nobody knows that team's
bullpen better than the fans of that team. How do
you feel when your team goes to the setup guy?
As a baseball fan in Atlanta, You're like, yeah, I
don't love this. Because baseball is such a long season.
(21:22):
The die hard baseball fans in the city know they're
bullpen better than any member of the media. They're covering it,
they're seeing it every night. How do you feel when
your team goes to the pen and the seventh inning?
And I feel that with Luca, the closer you are
to Luca, it's not just highlights. You get all the warts.
You see that he can't defend, You see that he
can be ball centric and he's gifted. I'm not denying it.
(21:44):
He's great, and I think he's got four years left.
But Cooper Flag, I think you're going to figure out
by the All Star Game. You're like, oh, it looks
pretty good, and Cooper Flag comes in. He does not
have to be a dominant score. Now with dlo there,
d lo A, d didn't have to be a dominant score.
(22:04):
Eighteen play defense gonna do just fine in Dallas now.
Jmack loves Luca. J Mack loves Luca. He likes guys
that shoot. So just saying he's twenty six, he's an
old twenty six Colin.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Colin, my friend, I had to take some notes as
you were driding this down. Obviously tomorrow's a big day
here on the show, so I'm.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Taking some extra notes.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Did you really just say, Luca's basically a step back guy.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Now did you say that that's kind of what he is?
Did he sick?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No more dumbs doesn't.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Teen months ago he put the Mavericks on his back
and took them to the finals.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Then he played in the Olympics in the summer. Then
he got hurt. He barely played the list. He played
fifty games due to the injury. Like, I can't believe
you just called.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
He's been hurt.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
He's guy.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
He has been hurt twice since the Olympics. That's what
happens when you're not in great well.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
They made him run to the finals and he was
running everything on that offense.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Then he played in the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Like, that's a lot. Then he got hurt, and then
they got hurt again.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
He's working out.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Let me just ask you, if Cooper Flag you would
take over Luca. Who is there anybody you're not taking
over Cooper Flag?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean if you yeah, absolutely,
there's there's I mean, yeah, honest, I mean there's. First
of all, Cooper Flag is the best, the best domestic
draft pick since Lebron.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
Okay, are you taking Wemby or Cooper flag right now.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Right now, you take Wemby because he's such a dominant
game altering defensively, you take.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
We Ga or Cooper Flag right now?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Going forward, I'd probably take Cooper flag.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
I would too, And I know that people are gonna
hate that because Sga is amazing, But yeah, so I
would put Cooper flag in that like he's gonna be
pretty soon a top ten guy in the league, probably
within the next five years.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Is that safe to say?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh? I yes, I absolutely And I'm just saying. My
whole point is Avery Johnson said give me Cooper Flag.
And my take is that's what I think, And that's
not a knock on Luca Lucas still a top twelve
player in the league, top ten player depending on the
night and depending on his health. All Right, Hour two
coming up, Urban Meyer, Albert brewin Nor.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Welcome Back. There was about a fifteen year period that
I thought outside of Ohio State, big ten schools just
didn't have the depth of talent that the LSUS and
the Alabama's had. Ohio State was sort of I used
to call him the SEC up North. They had the money,
the facilities, the coaching, but Michigan wann Natty, Buckeyes Wonnernaty.
(24:49):
The two best players in the country next year are
a receiver in a corner Caleb Downs Jeremiah Smith or Buckeyes.
And I think Penn State has the best backfield in
the country. And I think I have the nittneyl winning
a Natty. Although I think it's hard to you know,
the journey through the Big Ten now is tough because
Washington and USC are going to be better. Urban Meyer
is now joining US Urban. For years and years you knew,
(25:11):
and I knew, and the world knew. The SEC was better.
And I don't know. I don't know who's better in
the middle or the tail end. But I think if
you took the top four teams today in the Big Ten,
which would be Ohio State, Penn State, Oregon, and then
we can argue over for I think they are today
as good mine Lean is slightly better than the SEC.
(25:35):
Where are you at having coached in both conferences today.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
The transition of the Big Ten has been phenomenal. On
the triple option, we have James Franklin. We talked about
that because he came into the league a couple of
years after I did. In twenty twelve, calling it wasn't
even close. It was shocking. There were great players in
the Big Ten, but the stadium atmospheres were just okay.
The talent was not there, and the certainly the bottom
(26:02):
half the Big Ten just wasn't very good. That's changed,
that's changed dramatically. The stadium atmospheres are incredible. The addition
of the four teams for the Pac twelve, I mean,
those are four legit teams. And how about this stat
This is interesting. In nine, there were twenty eight players
(26:23):
drafted average in the Big Ten. This past year there
was seventy one. That's overdouble. So how do you measure conferences? Championships?
Big Ten the last two years? And those are two
great teams, the Wolverings and the Buckeys, great teams. But
then the second way to measure at the NFL and
the SECS. I think it's nineteen straight years they've had
(26:45):
more draft picks than everyone else. They still do, but
the Big pen's much closer.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, And I think you know we sometimes because Michigan
and Ohio State and Penn State are such big brands.
We kind of forget about Washington and Oregon. And I've
said this before about Washington. Every time in my life
they've had a great coach, Don James, I mean new
(27:10):
Heisel got him to a Rose Bowl, Chris Peterson, Calin
de Boorr. Every time they have an elite coach, they
end up in a playoff. And I don't think people
in the at least in the South. I think they
do in the Midwest. They don't understand how good Oregon
is as a football program. Whereas the SEC added Texas
and Oklahoma. I think people view those as big brands.
(27:34):
Tell me how you view Oregon and Washington. Forget to
sc for a second. I don't think those schools get
the national respect. But I would argue Oregon and Washington
right now, are Oregon's better than Oklahoma? Washington's on the
same plateau? Where are you on that?
Speaker 8 (27:51):
I think nashally, Oregon's a different it's a different duck,
but it's everybody looks at Oregon now, I mean the uniforms,
the stadium, the success they've had. I think I actually
considered them a blue blood right now, even though they've
not won a national championship. The Washington now I spend
time at Colorado State, I spent time at Utah's recruited out.
(28:14):
West Washington is a diamond and like you said, they've
always had when they have Don James, they have Brick
new Heisl, they have some of those coaches, Chris Peterson,
you're in the national championship hunt. They were just recently
in the championship hunt with Kailen de Bors. So you
added two great brands to the SEC. But I'll tell
you what, you got three legits and you just went
(28:36):
how about this? In the SEC, I count nine teams
that are expected to compete and win a national championship
for years, or just three in the Big Ten outs five,
So they've added. There's been some really strength added to
the Big Ten.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I think a lot of we all know the elite
NFL coaches in it feels like a young man's game.
And I think one of the advantages that Big ten
has now Franklin's a great recruiter, Ryan Day's a great recruiter.
Michigan has always been a solid. I think Dan Lanning's
a great recruiter. Also, a big nil USC now has
(29:16):
the number one twenty twenty six class Jed Fish has
always been. Even at Arizona, you got all sorts of
NFL guys. Is that the reality is the Big Ten
now has excellent recruiting coaches. That feels like a big
part of it. I mean, when you were in the SEC,
who was beating you in the Big Ten for players?
I think there's guys now in the Big Ten that
(29:38):
go down south and pull players up.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
I'm glad you brought that up, because this is this
is real life. I leave the SEC and I come
to Ohio State and there was something called a gentleman's
agreement and the gentleman's coach, Bilama, got really pissed off
at me when we turned a couple players and I
didn't know gentlemen agreement. I'm sure what that means. In
the recruiting you got to go get play years. We
had two kids from Ohio committed to Wisconsin. Then we
(30:03):
got them, we flipped them, and people were saying, well,
you know, in this conference, you don't do that, and
I was like, I don't. I not saw that anywhere
in my contract. That's not against the rules. I got
a job at Ohio State to go win games, so
I'm going to recruit whoever the heck we want to recruit.
So the recruiting has changed dramatically. Like you said, you
(30:24):
think about the Big Ten coaches that are elite recruiters.
I'm not saying they weren't back in twenty twelve, but
there wasn't the emphasis on it is now. And as
a result, look look at the difference. I just told
you seventy one players drafted in the Big Ten Conference
last year compared to twenty eight just ten years ago,
fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, the recruiting has changed in college football. You know,
I don't fight new stuff. If new stuff comes in,
there's new rules, there's new cultures. I'm just gonna you know,
I'm gonna try to figure out, like Rick Patino said
on my show recently, when the world changed, you can
you can fight it, or you can figure out a
way to solve the new world. If you were recruiting now,
(31:06):
let's say you're a Buckeye and and you're recruiting or
a Gator, whatever it is, how would you attack the
nil How would you attack it?
Speaker 8 (31:18):
I would, uh, you've got to get players, and I
would attack it the way the big schools are attacking it.
I would have find out I would have distribution. I
would have a GM. I think Mark Pantoni, the guy
we hired here years ago, he still at Ohio State.
I still talk to him once in a while about
how they do this. But you know, you have to
put emphasis if they're if everybody's abiding by the same rules,
(31:39):
which now they are. A year ago, it wasn't the case.
You could go out and you spend and through the
collectives as much as you can. But I would put
premium on positions a lot like they do the NFL.
You got to pay what you got to pay for
a quarterback, for defense, vents, corners and receivers. You have
to do it. And I'd pay that center, So I would.
I would distribute and build the best team you could
(31:59):
pay we can. And that's that's kind of what the
top teams are doing right now.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, the You know, it's funny how you perceive a
coach and how the public does. I've always loved Sark,
but I've said this about Sark. Great recruiter, great with quarterbacks,
hustler Sometimes on the details, I kind of feel like
he lets the game flow, and occasionally I'll watch him
(32:26):
and think it gets a little away from him, But
again I'm nitpicking. How do you view Sark when you
do a Texas game or you watch Texas? What do
you see it? Does he have a trend? Does he
have a tell like? How do you view Sark? Why?
Speaker 8 (32:43):
I have friends that are around Sark that know him well.
I know him fairly well. He's always been great to me.
I think he's the elite offense. I mean, that's I'm
on to state the obvious first. He's an elite offensive coach.
He was in the NFL, he was in college as
an assistant. As a head coach, they're always going to
be spectacular in all but a lot like Lincoln Riley,
is that you have to grow as a head coach.
(33:05):
You don't get championships for offense. That's not how this
game works. You get championships for great defense, not turning
the ball over, and efficient offense. And I think he's
grown into the position. He's still relatively young, even though
he's had some great jobs. So I view him as
one of the top coaches in the country. And that's
why I got Texas's Well, I haven't picked him for
(33:26):
sure yet, but I'm still studying it. But I think
most people have that preseason number one with a returning quarterback.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You know a program you know well as LSU, and
I like Brian Kelly, but it is a again, you
are recruiting your own players. You're everything's moving, and I
Brian Kelly and Lincoln Riley. I look at him and
I think it doesn't quite look like I think it
should look yet, and Saban got out of it. I
(33:54):
saw in college basketball coach k and Jay Wright are
like a young man's game. I'm getting out of this.
Let's say LSU is okay this year. Now I like
their quarterback. I think they're going to be better than okay.
But is there an argument with all the movement, there's
no off season that for the guys that are post sixty,
(34:14):
it's harder now than it's ever been.
Speaker 8 (34:18):
Well, you got to connect with players, and you look
at the best connecting guys and it's real as the
younger the younger generation, And that's always been kind of
the facts of coaching players. You know you have young
guys on your staff. A big part of that is
what to loard the locker room, to let you know
the locker room. So Brian Kelly, I admire him we're friends.
(34:39):
We coached against each other. I visit his programs, he's
visited mine. To think that he's still coaching. You know,
I didn't see that happening. And then he saw an
opportunity at LSU. And I'll tell you this about Brian.
Kelly's driven and he wants that national championship and you
don't move from South Bend. He did it for one reason,
and that's to go get that crystal balls. So I
(35:00):
know it's driving him and he's he's one of those
guys when he when he pushes really hard, great things happened.
So yeah, I didn't. I didn't see that one happened.
I didn't see him coaching this long. But when he
saw that opportunity showed up at LSU, we actually talked
about it a couple of years ago. He just thinks
that spectacular and the chance he co win it all.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Finally, you guys at Ohio State, you picked up produced
tight end again, another exceptional class. It's Caleb Downs, It's
Jeremiah Smith. Everybody loves the quarterback. If I said, give
me your top three teams in the country just in personnel,
I don't I don't want to look at this schedule.
If I just said, like last year, by the end
(35:40):
of the year, Ohio State had more good players than everybody.
They looked like those Alabama teams where they were like
Tyson in their prime. People were getting intimidated. Name the
three best rosters right now, personnel in America.
Speaker 8 (35:54):
Yeah, you said, you guys at Ohio State. I'm at
Fox I'm not. I know, I know, I was just
I'm just kidding you. Texas, Texas, Ohio State and Penn
State is following the lead of the Wolverines and the Buckeyes,
and that is they have more seniors. Think about this,
colin that I never had a chance to coach fourth
year players. If I did, it is very rare. And
(36:17):
the difference between a fourth year player and a rookie
or a freshman is night and day. You're coaching grown
ass men. You're coaching that's a men's locker room compared
to young person So I watch out for Penn State man.
If Drew Aller can really improves a quarterback, I agree
with you. To get the best backfield, I don't think
it's close in the country. They got an offensive line
(36:37):
that they can't wait to get on the Field. So yeah,
I think Penn State, Texas, and Ohio State are three
most talented.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, Urban Meyer, there's a golf course waiting, There's a
four iron waiting for you to grab it. So I
have fur chased mind.
Speaker 8 (36:53):
I'll see it. Gina and George. Ettie's in Chicago, and.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
DA tell me when you're in town. I'm ready for it. Yeah. Michigan. Uh,
Michigan two years ago. Ohio State last year. Penn States
might call to beat Texas in the National Championship. Uh,
you know, keep your eye on Oregon. Yeah, keep your
eye on Oregon. But I think they're really good. Ohio
State will obviously be good.
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