August 21, 2025 • 35 mins
Colin looks at the 49ers struggling with injuries in training camp and explains why he doesn’t want to hear excuses for quarterback Brock Purdy if the offense struggles to start the season. He reacts to breaking news out of Cleveland that has Shedeur Sanders as the 3rd string quarterback with the Browns despite Dillon Gabriel turning the ball over twice last week. Plus, Greg Cosell from NFL Films joins the show to breakdown the biggest hurdle Caleb Williams is facing under new head coach Ben Johnson.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It is a Thursday, Greg Cosell.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
In one hour, we are live. We're in Chicago. It's
the Herd.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Thanks for making us part of your day.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Sean, I was sitting with my wife last night in
front of the fire, and I want to relay because
you're a new parent. So and in this story with
the Niners reminds me of last night. So I want
to start the show. John here. I was sitting with
my wife and am having you know, cocktail front of
(01:03):
the fire. We have six kids between us, and I
made the analogy to my wife. We had a little
thing going on. I said, you know, honey, you and
I are firefighters, and occasionally one of our six kids
becomes an arsonist. They're just starting fires. Sometimes the key
(01:24):
is they don't have two or three arsenists at the
same time. So you've got to really when you have issues.
Parenting's not about when your kids are eating their vegetables
and everybody's getting good grades and playing nice. That's not parenting.
That's like babysitting. That's easy. Parenting is crisis. What happens
when there's fire starters? What happens? You got to come in.
(01:48):
You're the firefighter. You're putting that puppy out. And that's
a little bit like being a quarterback in the NFL.
Everybody's good with a stacked roster. What happens? Ask Jalen hurts,
you lose your top offensive coordinator and receiver gets hurt. Oh,
that's real quarterback play, Dad's real quarterback play. I mean
(02:09):
tip of the cap to Justin Herbert making the playoffs
last year. That number one first round pick or that
first round pick receiver Quentin Johnson can't catch his rookie
slot was his only legitimate, dependable wide receiver and he
made the playoffs. That's quarterbacking. So the Niners this preseason
are a mess. DeMarcus Robinson suspended three games. They went
(02:29):
and got Sky Moore yesterday. Andy Reid bailed on him,
probably not going to work a Russell Gage who was
being counted on to help for the injured receivers.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
He's now hurt.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
He's out for a couple of weeks, and since twenty eighteen,
with the exception of one year. And I don't have
an explanation for it. The Niners have been top ten
in injuries. A couple of years, they've been number one.
I mean, you can only wear pads so many days,
you can only practice so many days. Is I don't
know what it is, but I know this. That's that's
(03:06):
the separator. Patrick Mahomes won two Super Bowls and the
wide receiver situation was a mess whiffs, suspensions, drops, I think.
I think for a couple of years, kansasit. He led
the NFL and drops as Mahomes is winning Super Bowls
by the way.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
CJ.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Stroud last year, Stefan digs out for the year, Tank
Dell hurt, Nico Collins hurt at one point, he's like
working with a left tackle having a bad season. And
his number three, four, and five wide receivers are his one, two,
and three receivers, and he won a playoff game and
Josh Allen win the MVP. His number one wide receiver
(03:44):
is a slot guy from Boise State. That's quarterback. It's
like parenting. Parenting is when stuff gets messy. That's real parenting,
all right, Parenting's not everybody's eating their beans and get
n ay's and you're not a helping with homework's. That's
not parenting. So I don't want to hear any excuses
for brock Purty because to me, this is the separation.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
The separation in this league.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Is, oh, your O line lost your center and right
tackle Michael Pennix. Right now in Atlanta, they traded Drew
Dolman or Drew Dolman signed with the Bears, a great center,
and now they have two other offensive linemen hurt Michael Pennix.
This is not Washington, where you had one of the
top ten O lines and a great coach. Now you've
got a defensive coach and your old lines phone apart
(04:35):
in camp. That that is quarterback play for Michael Pennicks,
and this is quarterback play for Brock Purty. Nobody's healthy
at wide receiver. Debo deebo leaves ay Yuke's not there yet.
The guy you brought in to replace, at least for
the time being, your injured guy.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
He just got hurt.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Kyle Shanahan addresses the mess at wide receiver right now.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
For the Niners, it's pretty tough. I mean, I promise you, guys.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
If it's a challenge for the fans, I promise you guys,
it's a bigger challenge for me just dealing with all this.
But you know, we haven't had the best luck this year,
down probably more guys than we've had.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
It's you know, it's a tough situation.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
You got to keep practicing because we got to we
got to improve, We got to be ready for the season.
We got to continue to get better for the season.
But it does make that a huge challenge with the
number of guys we've had down now.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I said, last year, stacked roster rock perty's getting you
to conference championships. Last year beat up, old, brittle roster.
A lot of guys hurt, won in six against playoff teams,
So the schedules easier. Kittle and McCaffrey are back. San
Francisco is going to be better. They're not going to
be won in six against playoff teams. But this is
(05:45):
quarterback play in the NFL. Brock pretty went to Diowa State,
that prepared him for the NFL pass rush. Second best roster,
not always the best coach. So that this Michael Pennix
and Brock Purty already between camp and preseason up against it, real,
real injury issues. And that schedule at Seattle for the Niners.
(06:11):
Arizona plays him tough, Jags Rams Bucks. Okay, I got
to talk about this yesterday. I got a text from
a couple of front office people. Yesterday. The Broncos Sean
Payton made a deal. You know how Trump wrote that
book Art of the Deal. This was Art of the steal.
(06:35):
The Saints are delusional. They don't realize they're going to rebuild.
A year ago, Sean Payton drafted an old receiver out
of Utah. He entered the NFL at twenty six years old.
Entered the NFL at twenty six years old. He's now
twenty seven. He'll be twenty eight in the season. They
(06:59):
draft him in the seventh round and they traded him yesterday.
They flipped him for a fourth and a seventh round pick.
And the Saints are gonna be bad. So that's going
to be top of the fourth and top of the seventh.
Art of the steel. The kids played one year in
the NFL. He's already older than Ceedee Lamb, so he's
probably got two to three years of prime left. And
(07:19):
Sean Payton knew it. And this is what great offensive
coaching does. You find insane value later in the draft,
you make it immediately productive within your system, and then
you sign it like a brock perty or you flip it.
So they're going to get a top of the fourth
and the top of a seventh round pick for a
(07:41):
receiver that'll be twenty eight by December. And he knew
next year, when he turns twenty nine in a season,
you're not gonna get the value for him. People are
gonna go, well, he's a year away from his prime.
So Sean knew this is the time to move off him.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
You know, it's really smart.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So it's that Jordan Belfort, Wolf of Wall Street, sell
me this pen. That's what it feels like. And so
it's amazing the Saints got worked because they had Sean
Payton in the building for fifteen fifteen years that they
still got worked. But it's a great example offensive coaches.
Fine value late Niners have been in a couple of
(08:22):
times with Shanahan. Fine value late, make it immediately productive
and either sign them early to a good deal, get
them signed because you got them for free for four years,
or flip them early at the top and at Carolina,
by the way, Carolina has a really sharp young GM,
(08:43):
a former player, Dan Morgan. Carolina did this last year
where they got a fourth round pick from the Cowboys
for Jonathan Mingo, who's like a number three or four
receiver in the league.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
They got a fourth round pick.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
He's heard, he's on the ir and he had five
catches for the Cowboys last year. So in every business,
in every single business, the smart guys, the haves are working,
the distracted and the delusional. The Saints are delusional, they're
going a rebuild.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
The Sharks eat the minnows, the Hammers meet the nails,
And that's a great example. You wonder in yourself, how
is how is Sean Payton made this roster? How has
he made this offensive line? Number two? According to PFF
in like two years it was mediocre, bottom third of
the league. It's this kind of stuff, just knowing offensive personnel.
(09:31):
Look what he's done to that receiving corp and that
offensive line. The reason they can move off de von Vleight,
The reason they can move off him, talented kid, by
the way, The reason they could move off him because
they've drafted and developed and hit on wide receiver talent.
So it's just it's just a little deal. But Sean
knows the Saints aren't going to be good. The kid's
(09:54):
going to be twenty seven, twenty eight years old in
season in one year, I probably can't move him. His
A will become a real topic and they get two
good picks hammer me in the nail.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
That is A.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And Mark Cleroz was on our show either yesterday or
the day before talking about how Sean Payton has just
changed the Denver culture.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
The difference between last year and this year was last.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Year we hoped we could win. This year we know
we can win.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And one of the big moves we made.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Even if it was a.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Popular player, we got rid of popular players that weren't
the right guys. Guys that want to be here, Guys
that want to contribute, Guys that want to work hard,
guys that want to sacrifice for one another.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
That's how we're building this roster.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, I thought that was when people reach out to
me in the league and they're like, whoa, it's like uninitiated.
I didn't you know, I responded, but I didn't send
it out and I was actually distracted and my phone
light's up and it's like, yeah, I mean, that's just
Sean doing Sean's stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And we've talked about this before.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I don't have the stats in front of me, but
the late great Tony Gwynn is one of the best
peer hitters I've ever seen in baseball. But you know
he wasn't hitting Oral Hirschheiser in Oral's prime.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Nobody was.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You got to get those hits off the number three
and four starter, the average middle reliever, the average setup guy.
In almost every business I've ever been a part of
is you've got to take advantage of the people that
are delusional and distracted and don't put in the prep
or the work that you're not working the best people,
you're not taking advantage of great You've got to find
(11:39):
people that are not paying attention or have a higher
belief in reality that New Orleans makes that move, like
that's the kind of move that can win games now
and get us into the playoffs. That's not where New
Orleans is. They're in a rebuilt It's not where they're at.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
He's Mike Karma, I'm Dan Bayern.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
We have a fantasy football podcast called I Want Your Flex.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That's right Dan.
Speaker 7 (12:10):
Every week we're gonna scour the waiver wire to find
the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup, sit starts,
fantasy football players rankings to get you ready to dominate
the competition.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Listen to I Want Your Flex with Mike Carmon and
meet Dan Byer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well that and that's Greg Cosell. He doesn't out think
the film forty six years at NFL Films thurs Days during.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
The football season.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
We love him so all right, so I let let's
this is where I lean on you. So I think
Shador's bigger. I think he I think he's really accurate.
But he's a different quarterback than Dylan Gabriel. They are
different quarterbacks. You've watched all you know, you watched Dylan,
(12:57):
You've watched Shadure.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
What does the film say? What do you see is.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Who does Stefanski trust? Who do you face in pressure?
What is the film saying? The Browns young quarterbacks.
Speaker 8 (13:09):
So I think we're trying to figure out who's going
to be quarterback number.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Three on the Browns right right?
Speaker 8 (13:16):
Well, you know, Dylan Gabriel is a player that Stefanski
really liked because the way it works in the league,
Colin and you know this is offensive coaches.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
They think about how does a player work within my scheme?
Speaker 8 (13:28):
And what Gabriel is is he's essentially stylistically similar to
a too at tega Iloa in that he hits his
back foot and the ball comes out. He's a rhythm player.
He's a timing player. That's his game. He's a shorter quarterback,
so he needs to play that way and he did
that effectively for two years in college, one at Oklahoma,
(13:49):
one at Oregon.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Sanders is a little different player.
Speaker 8 (13:51):
He's not quite as rhythmic, and he has a tendency
and this showed.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Up on tape.
Speaker 8 (13:56):
By the way, even though the good outweighed the bad
when he played two weeks ago. He tends to drift
a little in the pocket. He tends to retreat in
the pocket.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
Yep.
Speaker 8 (14:06):
Now he can throw the ball well, but there are
some things he would have to clean up clearly. And
you know, he came from a program in Colorado where
there were.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
A ton of tunnel screens, a ton of easy throws.
He would need to learn.
Speaker 8 (14:20):
How to better navigate the pocket. Although he showed some
signs of that. But again, I think we're talking about,
you know, how many quarterbacks are.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
The Browns going to keep.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
No team keeps four quarterbacks, so it's going to be
interesting going down the stretch here. And then Sanders got
hurt and missed some time in practice, and that's not
going to help him.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I mean what you're saying, basically, and we've seen this
from offensive coaches before, run my play. Sean Payton loves Bonnicks,
but he really likes him because he runs his play effectively.
And what you're saying is Dylan Gabriel like a TUA,
runs the play they call should do or sometimes add
libs out of it.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Is that what you're saying, Oh.
Speaker 8 (15:01):
It's not that he adam libs out of it. He's
not as efficient in that style of just hitting his
back foot and getting the ball out. You know, that's
the way Dylan Gabriel has always had to play because
of his size.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
So, but that's the way.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
Coaches think, and I'm not sure a lot of people
think that way and understand that is coaches. The term
that's used a lot with in the NFL is scheme
adaptability colin. Coaches think on both sides of the ball
in terms of how does the guy fit into my scheme?
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Can he run my scheme?
Speaker 8 (15:32):
You know? You know this, coaches worked sixteen hours a
day and they're putting in their scheme, their game plan.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
It starts with OTAs.
Speaker 8 (15:39):
They want all this executed, and when it's not executed,
then it becomes a problem.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So brock Purty, when the roster was younger, healthier, less brittle,
was a really really good quarterback. Last year roster gets
beat up. He's won in six against playoff teams out
right now in camp they're wide receiving corps in complete shambles,
and they open up against a pretty lively athletic Seattle
(16:08):
defense up in the Northwest that's a tough opener. So
when you looked at film last year of Purty going
one in six down the stretch against playoff teams that
he couldn't make certain throws, was it that the yards
after cats were limited? Like one in six from Purdy
kind of jumps out at you when you look at.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
His early success.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Now without Christian McCaffrey, it's a different offense. But what
did the films say about Purty last year when he
had to start games with a patchwork group around him.
Speaker 8 (16:40):
Well, it's funny you mentioned Purdy because last week I
watched two hundred and fifty dropbacks of Purty over a
two day period. Purdy is a really good quarterback, Colin.
The thing with Purdy is he's not Josh Allen or
Patrick Mahomes. He's not necessarily the kind of quarterback even
though he does have mobility that's going to make those
(17:00):
kinds of plays by himself. Now we think of you
know that I'm a homes maker, Alan makes a Lamar makes.
He certainly doesn't navigate the pocket the way Joe Burrow does.
But in terms of being what we call a post
snap operator, in other words, when he takes the snap.
He has such an intuitive feel for what he sees,
and therefore he's a really really good timing and anticipation thrower.
(17:23):
It's just innate to him. He sees it really quickly.
So Purdy is a high level post snap operator. He's
a really really good player.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
You know. It gets to that old question of how many.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
Quarterbacks Colin and you can go back years and years
are really great when their team's not very good.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
I mean, that's you know, Purdy is a really good quarterback.
Speaker 8 (17:46):
He's just not a dynamic athlete who's necessarily going to
make those kind of special plays on his own. But
as a pocket quarterback, he's pretty high level.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Boy, too bad. Jason McIntyre's now on the show today
be doing backflips after that. Okay, Caleb Williams, I went
through the schedule this week and I said, listen, Chicago
historically has struggled in division. They want one to five
last year in a vision. They don't have Detroit roster,
they may not have Green Bay's coach or quarterback, and
(18:18):
Minnesota's rosters better front to back as well. So what
have you seen with Caleb? What I'll address it this way.
What is Ben Johnson doing to Caleb. Where has he
made strides improving Caleb from what the film said last year?
Speaker 8 (18:37):
Well, I think the number one thing is not when
he throws the ball. He's a great thrower of the football.
That is evident. Everybody knows that. And he's obviously a
great athlete who can make plays on the move. The
main part for Caleb Williams and the key for Ben
Johnson is everything from the huddle until the ball is snapped.
(18:58):
Because they call multiple plays in the huddle, there's a
lot of shifts, there's a lot of motions. You've got
to be able to do that with the necessary speed
and efficiency. So you get to the line of scrimmage
and there's time enough on the shot clock because you're
going to have the shifts, you're going to have the motions.
Now it's up to Caleb to decide if there's two
plays called, which one am I going to run? That
(19:20):
part of quarterbacking is the bigger deal for Caleb Williams
as he's learning the Ben Johnson offense, because Ben Johnson
will set you up beautifully with defined and clean reads
and throws, and Caleb Williams throws it as well as anybody.
I mean, you can see that everybody knew that when
he came out, that was never the issue. But it's
really from the point of the huddle until the ball
(19:42):
is snapped that's going to be the main part that
he has to become efficient at.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So so much of there's such an advantage for a
Jaden Daniels getting at Cliff Kingsbury, where a Justin Fields
has had a lot of defensive coaches. I do think
Sean Payton, Bo Nicks, I don't think bow would have
been that good had he had, you know, a defensive
coach perhaps, I think I think just offensive coaches and quarterbacks.
(20:09):
There's they rebuild all lines quicker. There's a sensibility about it.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So I look at Jackson Dart three years with Lane
Kiffen is high level coaching, and then he gets Brian
Dable more than capable in a playoff game with Daniel Jones.
And my my thing is, you can you can tell
me that he's not quite ready. But three years a
lane and a camp with Brian Dable. When you look
at the film of Jackson Darton preseason, do you see
(20:35):
areas where oh, whoa, whoa, he's not ready or does
he see the field?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
What does the film tell you?
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Well, they really did a good job in the preseason
of allowing him to get comfortable. And that's what the
preseason really is. For a lot of empty sets. Okay,
he's very comfortable in empty sets.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
It spreads the field.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
They got a lot of base defensive looks that were
not difficult to read. They play a little bit up tempo,
which he certainly used to in lane Kiffin. So they
did a lot of things that help him really get comfortable.
So when he's on the field, you know, he's not
going through major progressions here. He's not doing that. If
he becomes the starter, and we'll see how all this
(21:16):
plays out, you know, who knows what's going on there.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
But I don't know how you feel, But.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
There's a part of me that wouldn't be surprised if
he's named the starter.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
But we'll see how that plays out.
Speaker 8 (21:26):
But they tried to make it easy for him so
that he can make confident throws, which he did, and
he obviously has movement ability so well. You know, obviously
when the regular season starts and teams game plan, things
get different because you're going to see a lot of
different things, but he certainly was efficient, just like Caleb
Williams was super efficient against the Bills. You know, second
(21:48):
and thirdeen players. But that's what you want. You want efficiency,
so the quarterback feels good.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
I said, I didn't think the Steelers was a great
choice by Aaron Rodgers, much like the Jets defensive head coach, unpredictable,
offensive line inability in recent years to run the ball.
And I said, it's just this is an offensive line
under Mike Tomlin that has had six years and not
(22:16):
a lot to show for it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
They have not run the ball consistently.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
They lose Nasie Harris, their left tackle, And I just
thought San Francisco, Minnesota. I thought there were better spots
for him. So if you go back to the Jets
and Aaron last year in the film, it could look
a little bit like the Steelers to me, are a
better run version of the Jets, right, like a better
front office, a better coach. Go back to the Jets
(22:40):
last year. Is Aaron way past his prime? Does he
do anything that resembles the great Aaron?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
He he throws the ball super well.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
You know, I think when you sign Aaron Rodgers, owhen
he's your quarterback. To me, the bigger issue is how
you mesh would you want to do is an offensive coordinator,
and it's Author Smith with the fact that one of Rogers'
greatest strengths has always been his ability to control the
game at the line of scrimmage and then be able
(23:11):
to adjust and change plays, So that I think for
an offensive coordinator, that's something that you really have to
work on because you don't want to take that away
from Aaron Rodgers because anybody who works with Aaron Rodgers
will tell you he's among the smartest quarterbacks they've ever seen,
and he's so good at the line of scrimmage in
controlling the game.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
So to me, the larger question is how do you mesh?
Speaker 8 (23:35):
How does Author Smith mesh what he wants to do
with his offense because he's got a clearly defined offensive
approach with the fact that Aaron Rodgers is so good
at the line of scrimmage and likes to change things based.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
On what he sees.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, So an interesting storyline that has developed this offseason
in training camp and in the preseason is Matthew Stafford's help.
So if you think about last year, the Rams were
driving in the snow in Philadelphia after a Puka Nakuah
completion to beat the Philadelphia Eagles, who traunce Kansas City
(24:10):
in the Super Bowl. So my take is the defense,
there's a lot of talent. I'm sure the film says that,
especially in the box. There's a lot of talent up front.
But when I look at their offense and their point
differential last year, does the film tell you this is
really this is about McVeigh and Stafford's brilliance, not really
(24:34):
the offensive roster composition. Because I said the other day,
I said, if Matt Stafford doesn't play, this is the
only team in the league that could win the Super
Bowl or finish four and thirteen, because I think even
Kansas City with their roster and their overall talent and
coaching could win seven eight games of Mahomes got banged up.
When you look at the Rams on film, what is
(24:57):
their offense? Is it basically the brilliance of two guys
and kind of a limited offensive roster.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
To some extent, I mean, they don't have a great
offensive roster, and certainly the wide receiver position now is
they don't have great players there. You know, Nikup is
really good, but he's a certain kind of player. And
Stafford has just always been so good and another guy
that is really good at understanding what he's seeing, changing plays,
calling audibles, still has a big time arm, can make
(25:28):
any throw an aggressive thrower, which you really need to
be in the NFL. And McVeigh has always been so
good in terms of formations, shifts, motions, getting guys open,
making it tough for the defense.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Offensively, they do not have great players throughout that offense.
And Stafford's injury the back particularly, you know, don't forget
he had back injuries when he was twenty five and
twenty six. This is not brand new and now he's
I think thirty seven. So you know, I love watching
Matthew Stafford play. He's always been one of my favorite
guys to watch on film. But I'd be a little
(26:03):
concerned about that back injury. You know, that's a tough
deal as you get older.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Okay, finally, you know, I've always loved Sam Donald. Last
year through fourteen weeks, it was a very fun story
for me. But when you watched him, was it about
Kevin O'Connell and Justin Jefferson? Do you see him going
to Seattle with a defensive coach with an offensive line
(26:28):
that was bad last year? Do you think he replicates it?
Is he now overvalued based on a remarkable coach Justin Jefferson,
solid run game. Where are you on Sam Donald off
of last season? What does the film tell you?
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Well?
Speaker 8 (26:45):
I think that the reason that Seattle wanted Donald is
because with Kubiak there as the OC, they're going to
run a lot of similar concepts as the Vikings did.
They're putting him under center because I believe Donald last
year was either the second or third most dropbacks as
a conventional play action quarterback meeting.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
He was under center.
Speaker 8 (27:06):
That's what he did really well under Kevin O'Connell, and
that's what Kubiak is going to do. They're going to
start with the outside zone run game, put Donald under center,
and let the play action game be a foundation of
what they do. There's less reading involved in the play
action game, particularly when you're under center. It holds the
second level defenders better because they have a longer time
(27:27):
to wait to see if it's run or pass. So
I think the thought process was Donald was very good
running that style of offense, that philosophical style, and now
we're going to do something very similar and Colin.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
By the way, most quarterbacks need.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
A particular style, a particular philosophy to be effective. There's
very few transcendent quarterbacks that you can just say, let's
do anything and they'll be great. So that, to me
is not a knock on Donald. That's the way it
is with most quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Greg Cosel Year's NFL films this point forward. For the
next twenty twenty two weeks, it's going to be Greg
Cosell on Thursdays as always, Great Senior.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
In recent years, one of the best coaching jobs was
done by Kevin Stefanski of the Cleveland Browns in twenty
twenty three. In that division, he won eleven games and
his quarterbacks were Old Creaky Joe Flacco, Oud Deshaun Watson,
P J. Walker, and Dorian Thompson Robinson. Kevin Stefanski's a
(28:34):
hell of a coach, went to Penn. He knows more
than you do about offense. I know hard to believe
he does, and he knows more than me. He has
announced that Joe Flacco will start against the Rams twenty
five to thirty plays for the starters. Dylan Gabriel is
the backup. Shadoor Sanders is third. I know you've got
(28:58):
your shador slash Barry Sanders jersey you're wearing. I know,
and I've said before I think Shadeur was underdrafted. I
think he was, but speeding tickets silliness. Dylan Gabriel is
a much more kind of centered, serious kid, and Shadeur.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Is third. I gotta trust Stefanski.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Guy won eleven games with like musical chairs at quarterback
in twenty twenty three in the AFC in a division
with the Ravens Joe Burrow. He won eleven games. He
knows more than I do. I know you are absolutely
sure you could be president. You would do a better job.
(29:45):
The where are we live and everybody's an expert. Everybody's
an epidemiologist during a pandemic. Kevin Stefanski's a smart guy.
It's one of the two Ivy League coaches in the league.
He's a pretty smart guy. He won eleven games with
that nonsense in twenty twenty three. He's got Dylan Gabriel
two and three. Greg Cosell was on twenty five minutes ago,
and I asked him, what do you see. You've seen
both of them play in the preseason. What do you see.
Speaker 8 (30:08):
Offensive coaches they think about how does a player work
within my scheme? And what Gabriel is is he's essentially
stylistically similar to a too attaga Iloa. Sanders is a
little different player. He's not quite as rhythmic, and he
has a tendency. And this showed up on tape, by
the way, even though the good outweighed the bad when
(30:29):
he played two weeks ago. He tends to drift a
little in the pocket. He tends to retreat in the pocket.
You know how many quarterbacks are the Browns going to keep?
No team keeps four quarterbacks, So it's going to be
interesting going down the stretch here. And so then Sanders
got hurt and missed some time in practice, and that's
not going to help him.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
So let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
The entire NFL told you he's a fifth round pick,
and the Browns are telling you he's a third string quarterback. Overvalued.
I'm guilty as charged. I thought, Oh, I can see
him fall into the second round. I guess I'm wrong,
but the league told you. And by the way, seven
teams annually are desperate for quarterback and another fifteen are
(31:14):
desperate for a backup. The whole league pass for four rounds,
and many of us believe Jimmy Haslam, the owner of
the Browns, is the one that nudged the front office
into drafting him. So the brown drafted Dylan Gabriel two
rounds before. So you can run to your Reddit board
and dogpound dot com and say it's a conspiracy. But
(31:34):
the whole league told you he's a fifth round quarterback,
and the Browns are telling you. Kevin Stefanski, who won
eleven games in twenty twenty three with nonsense in a
division with the Ravens, well in the AFC, he's like
his third string quarterback. I you know, I think I'm
pretty good on the quarterback thing now that Sam Darnold
(31:55):
can play. I haven't missed a ton on quarterbacks. I thought,
I thought Shur, I thought, I don't know. I watched
Jackson Dart with better teammates. I watched Shador with a
bad college O line and no run game. He really productive,
productive against much better rosters, much much better rosters.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
But the league and the Browns, they're they're telling.
Speaker 8 (32:22):
You, eh, eh.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I mean, I know this is hard for guys, but
sometimes you have to admit there are people that are
are behind the rope. They have access, they see stuff.
I mean it sounded like to me. Remember Greg Cosel
said a couple of weeks ago on the show. He said,
he said, Shadour is accurate, but he's not as accurate
as the analysts are saying. The film tells you he's
(32:49):
not that accurate. He's accurate, but uh. And for the record,
the Browns have everything to gain on Shadur plane. If
I mean, if Chedeur could be the starter, are you
kidding me? That would be unbelievable as a fifth raft pick.
(33:10):
Look what it's done to the Niners. You can stack
your roster, you can get out from under that horrible
Deshaun Watson contract. They would love, they would love for
Shahur as a fifth rown pick, to be a starting quarterback.
There's no there's no advantage to the Browns bearing him.
And I said, I looked at Dylan Gabriel in college
(33:30):
and my take was he had great coaching and talent
at Oregon. He's just too small, He's going to struggle
kind of seeing the field, and he's acknowledged he can.
I just I just thought, I mean, he, you know,
he looked smaller, and I'd seen photos of him next
to other, you know, athletes at Oregon and I thought,
I just don't see that as an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I do.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I've always said size matters unless you're like Kyler Murray
or Russell Wilson in your prime and you can run
around and you're so elusive. That's not Dylan Gabriel Schadour's
a legit six two. Shador moves well enough and he
was really accurate behind with no talent around him at Colorado.
But Stefanski knows more than I do, and I trust
(34:09):
him and there's no value in bearing him. I would
love to be on dog Poundbarks dot com today. I
bet you our website is lit. I bet they're going
crazy in everybody stinks but us in Cleveland dot com.
I would love to be on that. I don't have
(34:30):
my phone with me. Dogs by Nature is that the
big one?
Speaker 3 (34:38):
That site is roaring today? John, what do you make
of it?
Speaker 9 (34:43):
Didn't Sefanski tell you what he thought about Shador when
he had the chance to take him in the third round,
and he took another quarterback. And even if you say, well,
the GM pick the players, no one picks a quarterback
for an offensive head coach. That's the offensive head coach,
even if he's not the boss in the draft room.
Quarterbacks are baby. He chose Dylan Gabriel in the third round.
Now we can disagree, and I do. I thought that
(35:04):
was a little crazy, but he clearly likes Dylan Gabriel.
I mean that's not debatable. And Dylan Gabriel as what two, three, four,
five years worth of college experience that they're basing this
off of.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Let's check out wolfwolf dot com and see what they're saying.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Man is this is good dog Biscuit dot com. Let's
go check it out right now.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It is a Thursday, Greg Cosell.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
In one hour, we are live. We're in Chicago. It's
the Herd.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Thanks for making us part of your day.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Sean, I was sitting with my wife last night in
front of the fire, and I want to relay because
you're a new parent. So and in this story with
the Niners reminds me of last night. So I want
to start the show. John here. I was sitting with
my wife and am having you know, cocktail front of
(01:03):
the fire. We have six kids between us, and I
made the analogy to my wife. We had a little
thing going on. I said, you know, honey, you and
I are firefighters, and occasionally one of our six kids
becomes an arsonist. They're just starting fires. Sometimes the key
(01:24):
is they don't have two or three arsenists at the
same time. So you've got to really when you have issues.
Parenting's not about when your kids are eating their vegetables
and everybody's getting good grades and playing nice. That's not parenting.
That's like babysitting. That's easy. Parenting is crisis. What happens
when there's fire starters? What happens? You got to come in.
(01:48):
You're the firefighter. You're putting that puppy out. And that's
a little bit like being a quarterback in the NFL.
Everybody's good with a stacked roster. What happens? Ask Jalen hurts,
you lose your top offensive coordinator and receiver gets hurt. Oh,
that's real quarterback play, Dad's real quarterback play. I mean
(02:09):
tip of the cap to Justin Herbert making the playoffs
last year. That number one first round pick or that
first round pick receiver Quentin Johnson can't catch his rookie
slot was his only legitimate, dependable wide receiver and he
made the playoffs. That's quarterbacking. So the Niners this preseason
are a mess. DeMarcus Robinson suspended three games. They went
(02:29):
and got Sky Moore yesterday. Andy Reid bailed on him,
probably not going to work a Russell Gage who was
being counted on to help for the injured receivers.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
He's now hurt.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
He's out for a couple of weeks, and since twenty eighteen,
with the exception of one year. And I don't have
an explanation for it. The Niners have been top ten
in injuries. A couple of years, they've been number one.
I mean, you can only wear pads so many days,
you can only practice so many days. Is I don't
know what it is, but I know this. That's that's
(03:06):
the separator. Patrick Mahomes won two Super Bowls and the
wide receiver situation was a mess whiffs, suspensions, drops, I think.
I think for a couple of years, kansasit. He led
the NFL and drops as Mahomes is winning Super Bowls
by the way.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
CJ.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Stroud last year, Stefan digs out for the year, Tank
Dell hurt, Nico Collins hurt at one point, he's like
working with a left tackle having a bad season. And
his number three, four, and five wide receivers are his one, two,
and three receivers, and he won a playoff game and
Josh Allen win the MVP. His number one wide receiver
(03:44):
is a slot guy from Boise State. That's quarterback. It's
like parenting. Parenting is when stuff gets messy. That's real parenting,
all right, Parenting's not everybody's eating their beans and get
n ay's and you're not a helping with homework's. That's
not parenting. So I don't want to hear any excuses
for brock Purty because to me, this is the separation.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
The separation in this league.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Is, oh, your O line lost your center and right
tackle Michael Pennix. Right now in Atlanta, they traded Drew
Dolman or Drew Dolman signed with the Bears, a great center,
and now they have two other offensive linemen hurt Michael Pennix.
This is not Washington, where you had one of the
top ten O lines and a great coach. Now you've
got a defensive coach and your old lines phone apart
(04:35):
in camp. That that is quarterback play for Michael Pennicks,
and this is quarterback play for Brock Purty. Nobody's healthy
at wide receiver. Debo deebo leaves ay Yuke's not there yet.
The guy you brought in to replace, at least for
the time being, your injured guy.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
He just got hurt.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Kyle Shanahan addresses the mess at wide receiver right now.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
For the Niners, it's pretty tough. I mean, I promise you, guys.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
If it's a challenge for the fans, I promise you guys,
it's a bigger challenge for me just dealing with all this.
But you know, we haven't had the best luck this year,
down probably more guys than we've had.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
It's you know, it's a tough situation.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
You got to keep practicing because we got to we
got to improve, We got to be ready for the season.
We got to continue to get better for the season.
But it does make that a huge challenge with the
number of guys we've had down now.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I said, last year, stacked roster rock perty's getting you
to conference championships. Last year beat up, old, brittle roster.
A lot of guys hurt, won in six against playoff teams,
So the schedules easier. Kittle and McCaffrey are back. San
Francisco is going to be better. They're not going to
be won in six against playoff teams. But this is
(05:45):
quarterback play in the NFL. Brock pretty went to Diowa State,
that prepared him for the NFL pass rush. Second best roster,
not always the best coach. So that this Michael Pennix
and Brock Purty already between camp and preseason up against it, real,
real injury issues. And that schedule at Seattle for the Niners.
(06:11):
Arizona plays him tough, Jags Rams Bucks. Okay, I got
to talk about this yesterday. I got a text from
a couple of front office people. Yesterday. The Broncos Sean
Payton made a deal. You know how Trump wrote that
book Art of the Deal. This was Art of the steal.
(06:35):
The Saints are delusional. They don't realize they're going to rebuild.
A year ago, Sean Payton drafted an old receiver out
of Utah. He entered the NFL at twenty six years old.
Entered the NFL at twenty six years old. He's now
twenty seven. He'll be twenty eight in the season. They
(06:59):
draft him in the seventh round and they traded him yesterday.
They flipped him for a fourth and a seventh round pick.
And the Saints are gonna be bad. So that's going
to be top of the fourth and top of the seventh.
Art of the steel. The kids played one year in
the NFL. He's already older than Ceedee Lamb, so he's
probably got two to three years of prime left. And
(07:19):
Sean Payton knew it. And this is what great offensive
coaching does. You find insane value later in the draft,
you make it immediately productive within your system, and then
you sign it like a brock perty or you flip it.
So they're going to get a top of the fourth
and the top of a seventh round pick for a
(07:41):
receiver that'll be twenty eight by December. And he knew
next year, when he turns twenty nine in a season,
you're not gonna get the value for him. People are
gonna go, well, he's a year away from his prime.
So Sean knew this is the time to move off him.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
You know, it's really smart.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So it's that Jordan Belfort, Wolf of Wall Street, sell
me this pen. That's what it feels like. And so
it's amazing the Saints got worked because they had Sean
Payton in the building for fifteen fifteen years that they
still got worked. But it's a great example offensive coaches.
Fine value late Niners have been in a couple of
(08:22):
times with Shanahan. Fine value late, make it immediately productive
and either sign them early to a good deal, get
them signed because you got them for free for four years,
or flip them early at the top and at Carolina,
by the way, Carolina has a really sharp young GM,
(08:43):
a former player, Dan Morgan. Carolina did this last year
where they got a fourth round pick from the Cowboys
for Jonathan Mingo, who's like a number three or four
receiver in the league.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
They got a fourth round pick.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
He's heard, he's on the ir and he had five
catches for the Cowboys last year. So in every business,
in every single business, the smart guys, the haves are working,
the distracted and the delusional. The Saints are delusional, they're
going a rebuild.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
The Sharks eat the minnows, the Hammers meet the nails,
And that's a great example. You wonder in yourself, how
is how is Sean Payton made this roster? How has
he made this offensive line? Number two? According to PFF
in like two years it was mediocre, bottom third of
the league. It's this kind of stuff, just knowing offensive personnel.
(09:31):
Look what he's done to that receiving corp and that
offensive line. The reason they can move off de von Vleight,
The reason they can move off him, talented kid, by
the way, The reason they could move off him because
they've drafted and developed and hit on wide receiver talent.
So it's just it's just a little deal. But Sean
knows the Saints aren't going to be good. The kid's
(09:54):
going to be twenty seven, twenty eight years old in
season in one year, I probably can't move him. His
A will become a real topic and they get two
good picks hammer me in the nail.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
That is A.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And Mark Cleroz was on our show either yesterday or
the day before talking about how Sean Payton has just
changed the Denver culture.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
The difference between last year and this year was last.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
Year we hoped we could win. This year we know
we can win.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And one of the big moves we made.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Even if it was a.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Popular player, we got rid of popular players that weren't
the right guys. Guys that want to be here, Guys
that want to contribute, Guys that want to work hard,
guys that want to sacrifice for one another.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
That's how we're building this roster.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, I thought that was when people reach out to
me in the league and they're like, whoa, it's like uninitiated.
I didn't you know, I responded, but I didn't send
it out and I was actually distracted and my phone
light's up and it's like, yeah, I mean, that's just
Sean doing Sean's stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And we've talked about this before.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I don't have the stats in front of me, but
the late great Tony Gwynn is one of the best
peer hitters I've ever seen in baseball. But you know
he wasn't hitting Oral Hirschheiser in Oral's prime.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Nobody was.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You got to get those hits off the number three
and four starter, the average middle reliever, the average setup guy.
In almost every business I've ever been a part of
is you've got to take advantage of the people that
are delusional and distracted and don't put in the prep
or the work that you're not working the best people,
you're not taking advantage of great You've got to find
(11:39):
people that are not paying attention or have a higher
belief in reality that New Orleans makes that move, like
that's the kind of move that can win games now
and get us into the playoffs. That's not where New
Orleans is. They're in a rebuilt It's not where they're at.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
He's Mike Karma, I'm Dan Bayern.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
We have a fantasy football podcast called I Want Your Flex.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That's right Dan.
Speaker 7 (12:10):
Every week we're gonna scour the waiver wire to find
the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup, sit starts,
fantasy football players rankings to get you ready to dominate
the competition.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Listen to I Want Your Flex with Mike Carmon and
meet Dan Byer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well that and that's Greg Cosell. He doesn't out think
the film forty six years at NFL Films thurs Days during.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
The football season.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
We love him so all right, so I let let's
this is where I lean on you. So I think
Shador's bigger. I think he I think he's really accurate.
But he's a different quarterback than Dylan Gabriel. They are
different quarterbacks. You've watched all you know, you watched Dylan,
(12:57):
You've watched Shadure.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
What does the film say? What do you see is.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Who does Stefanski trust? Who do you face in pressure?
What is the film saying? The Browns young quarterbacks.
Speaker 8 (13:09):
So I think we're trying to figure out who's going
to be quarterback number.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Three on the Browns right right?
Speaker 8 (13:16):
Well, you know, Dylan Gabriel is a player that Stefanski
really liked because the way it works in the league,
Colin and you know this is offensive coaches.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
They think about how does a player work within my scheme?
Speaker 8 (13:28):
And what Gabriel is is he's essentially stylistically similar to
a too at tega Iloa in that he hits his
back foot and the ball comes out. He's a rhythm player.
He's a timing player. That's his game. He's a shorter quarterback,
so he needs to play that way and he did
that effectively for two years in college, one at Oklahoma,
(13:49):
one at Oregon.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Sanders is a little different player.
Speaker 8 (13:51):
He's not quite as rhythmic, and he has a tendency
and this showed.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Up on tape.
Speaker 8 (13:56):
By the way, even though the good outweighed the bad
when he played two weeks ago. He tends to drift
a little in the pocket. He tends to retreat in
the pocket.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
Yep.
Speaker 8 (14:06):
Now he can throw the ball well, but there are
some things he would have to clean up clearly. And
you know, he came from a program in Colorado where
there were.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
A ton of tunnel screens, a ton of easy throws.
He would need to learn.
Speaker 8 (14:20):
How to better navigate the pocket. Although he showed some
signs of that. But again, I think we're talking about,
you know, how many quarterbacks are.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
The Browns going to keep.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
No team keeps four quarterbacks, so it's going to be
interesting going down the stretch here. And then Sanders got
hurt and missed some time in practice, and that's not
going to help him.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I mean what you're saying, basically, and we've seen this
from offensive coaches before, run my play. Sean Payton loves Bonnicks,
but he really likes him because he runs his play effectively.
And what you're saying is Dylan Gabriel like a TUA,
runs the play they call should do or sometimes add
libs out of it.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Is that what you're saying, Oh.
Speaker 8 (15:01):
It's not that he adam libs out of it. He's
not as efficient in that style of just hitting his
back foot and getting the ball out. You know, that's
the way Dylan Gabriel has always had to play because
of his size.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
So, but that's the way.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
Coaches think, and I'm not sure a lot of people
think that way and understand that is coaches. The term
that's used a lot with in the NFL is scheme
adaptability colin. Coaches think on both sides of the ball
in terms of how does the guy fit into my scheme?
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Can he run my scheme?
Speaker 8 (15:32):
You know? You know this, coaches worked sixteen hours a
day and they're putting in their scheme, their game plan.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
It starts with OTAs.
Speaker 8 (15:39):
They want all this executed, and when it's not executed,
then it becomes a problem.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So brock Purty, when the roster was younger, healthier, less brittle,
was a really really good quarterback. Last year roster gets
beat up. He's won in six against playoff teams out
right now in camp they're wide receiving corps in complete shambles,
and they open up against a pretty lively athletic Seattle
(16:08):
defense up in the Northwest that's a tough opener. So
when you looked at film last year of Purty going
one in six down the stretch against playoff teams that
he couldn't make certain throws, was it that the yards
after cats were limited? Like one in six from Purdy
kind of jumps out at you when you look at.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
His early success.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Now without Christian McCaffrey, it's a different offense. But what
did the films say about Purty last year when he
had to start games with a patchwork group around him.
Speaker 8 (16:40):
Well, it's funny you mentioned Purdy because last week I
watched two hundred and fifty dropbacks of Purty over a
two day period. Purdy is a really good quarterback, Colin.
The thing with Purdy is he's not Josh Allen or
Patrick Mahomes. He's not necessarily the kind of quarterback even
though he does have mobility that's going to make those
(17:00):
kinds of plays by himself. Now we think of you
know that I'm a homes maker, Alan makes a Lamar makes.
He certainly doesn't navigate the pocket the way Joe Burrow does.
But in terms of being what we call a post
snap operator, in other words, when he takes the snap.
He has such an intuitive feel for what he sees,
and therefore he's a really really good timing and anticipation thrower.
(17:23):
It's just innate to him. He sees it really quickly.
So Purdy is a high level post snap operator. He's
a really really good player.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
You know. It gets to that old question of how many.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
Quarterbacks Colin and you can go back years and years
are really great when their team's not very good.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
I mean, that's you know, Purdy is a really good quarterback.
Speaker 8 (17:46):
He's just not a dynamic athlete who's necessarily going to
make those kind of special plays on his own. But
as a pocket quarterback, he's pretty high level.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Boy, too bad. Jason McIntyre's now on the show today
be doing backflips after that. Okay, Caleb Williams, I went
through the schedule this week and I said, listen, Chicago
historically has struggled in division. They want one to five
last year in a vision. They don't have Detroit roster,
they may not have Green Bay's coach or quarterback, and
(18:18):
Minnesota's rosters better front to back as well. So what
have you seen with Caleb? What I'll address it this way.
What is Ben Johnson doing to Caleb. Where has he
made strides improving Caleb from what the film said last year?
Speaker 8 (18:37):
Well, I think the number one thing is not when
he throws the ball. He's a great thrower of the football.
That is evident. Everybody knows that. And he's obviously a
great athlete who can make plays on the move. The
main part for Caleb Williams and the key for Ben
Johnson is everything from the huddle until the ball is snapped.
(18:58):
Because they call multiple plays in the huddle, there's a
lot of shifts, there's a lot of motions. You've got
to be able to do that with the necessary speed
and efficiency. So you get to the line of scrimmage
and there's time enough on the shot clock because you're
going to have the shifts, you're going to have the motions.
Now it's up to Caleb to decide if there's two
plays called, which one am I going to run? That
(19:20):
part of quarterbacking is the bigger deal for Caleb Williams
as he's learning the Ben Johnson offense, because Ben Johnson
will set you up beautifully with defined and clean reads
and throws, and Caleb Williams throws it as well as anybody.
I mean, you can see that everybody knew that when
he came out, that was never the issue. But it's
really from the point of the huddle until the ball
(19:42):
is snapped that's going to be the main part that
he has to become efficient at.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
So so much of there's such an advantage for a
Jaden Daniels getting at Cliff Kingsbury, where a Justin Fields
has had a lot of defensive coaches. I do think
Sean Payton, Bo Nicks, I don't think bow would have
been that good had he had, you know, a defensive
coach perhaps, I think I think just offensive coaches and quarterbacks.
(20:09):
There's they rebuild all lines quicker. There's a sensibility about it.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So I look at Jackson Dart three years with Lane
Kiffen is high level coaching, and then he gets Brian
Dable more than capable in a playoff game with Daniel Jones.
And my my thing is, you can you can tell
me that he's not quite ready. But three years a
lane and a camp with Brian Dable. When you look
at the film of Jackson Darton preseason, do you see
(20:35):
areas where oh, whoa, whoa, he's not ready or does
he see the field?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
What does the film tell you?
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Well, they really did a good job in the preseason
of allowing him to get comfortable. And that's what the
preseason really is. For a lot of empty sets. Okay,
he's very comfortable in empty sets.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
It spreads the field.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
They got a lot of base defensive looks that were
not difficult to read. They play a little bit up tempo,
which he certainly used to in lane Kiffin. So they
did a lot of things that help him really get comfortable.
So when he's on the field, you know, he's not
going through major progressions here. He's not doing that. If
he becomes the starter, and we'll see how all this
(21:16):
plays out, you know, who knows what's going on there.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
But I don't know how you feel, But.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
There's a part of me that wouldn't be surprised if
he's named the starter.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
But we'll see how that plays out.
Speaker 8 (21:26):
But they tried to make it easy for him so
that he can make confident throws, which he did, and
he obviously has movement ability so well. You know, obviously
when the regular season starts and teams game plan, things
get different because you're going to see a lot of
different things, but he certainly was efficient, just like Caleb
Williams was super efficient against the Bills. You know, second
(21:48):
and thirdeen players. But that's what you want. You want efficiency,
so the quarterback feels good.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
I said, I didn't think the Steelers was a great
choice by Aaron Rodgers, much like the Jets defensive head coach, unpredictable,
offensive line inability in recent years to run the ball.
And I said, it's just this is an offensive line
under Mike Tomlin that has had six years and not
(22:16):
a lot to show for it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
They have not run the ball consistently.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
They lose Nasie Harris, their left tackle, And I just
thought San Francisco, Minnesota. I thought there were better spots
for him. So if you go back to the Jets
and Aaron last year in the film, it could look
a little bit like the Steelers to me, are a
better run version of the Jets, right, like a better
front office, a better coach. Go back to the Jets
(22:40):
last year. Is Aaron way past his prime? Does he
do anything that resembles the great Aaron?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
He he throws the ball super well.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
You know, I think when you sign Aaron Rodgers, owhen
he's your quarterback. To me, the bigger issue is how
you mesh would you want to do is an offensive coordinator,
and it's Author Smith with the fact that one of Rogers'
greatest strengths has always been his ability to control the
game at the line of scrimmage and then be able
(23:11):
to adjust and change plays, So that I think for
an offensive coordinator, that's something that you really have to
work on because you don't want to take that away
from Aaron Rodgers because anybody who works with Aaron Rodgers
will tell you he's among the smartest quarterbacks they've ever seen,
and he's so good at the line of scrimmage in
controlling the game.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
So to me, the larger question is how do you mesh?
Speaker 8 (23:35):
How does Author Smith mesh what he wants to do
with his offense because he's got a clearly defined offensive
approach with the fact that Aaron Rodgers is so good
at the line of scrimmage and likes to change things based.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
On what he sees.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, So an interesting storyline that has developed this offseason
in training camp and in the preseason is Matthew Stafford's help.
So if you think about last year, the Rams were
driving in the snow in Philadelphia after a Puka Nakuah
completion to beat the Philadelphia Eagles, who traunce Kansas City
(24:10):
in the Super Bowl. So my take is the defense,
there's a lot of talent. I'm sure the film says that,
especially in the box. There's a lot of talent up front.
But when I look at their offense and their point
differential last year, does the film tell you this is
really this is about McVeigh and Stafford's brilliance, not really
(24:34):
the offensive roster composition. Because I said the other day,
I said, if Matt Stafford doesn't play, this is the
only team in the league that could win the Super
Bowl or finish four and thirteen, because I think even
Kansas City with their roster and their overall talent and
coaching could win seven eight games of Mahomes got banged up.
When you look at the Rams on film, what is
(24:57):
their offense? Is it basically the brilliance of two guys
and kind of a limited offensive roster.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
To some extent, I mean, they don't have a great
offensive roster, and certainly the wide receiver position now is
they don't have great players there. You know, Nikup is
really good, but he's a certain kind of player. And
Stafford has just always been so good and another guy
that is really good at understanding what he's seeing, changing plays,
calling audibles, still has a big time arm, can make
(25:28):
any throw an aggressive thrower, which you really need to
be in the NFL. And McVeigh has always been so
good in terms of formations, shifts, motions, getting guys open,
making it tough for the defense.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Offensively, they do not have great players throughout that offense.
And Stafford's injury the back particularly, you know, don't forget
he had back injuries when he was twenty five and
twenty six. This is not brand new and now he's
I think thirty seven. So you know, I love watching
Matthew Stafford play. He's always been one of my favorite
guys to watch on film. But I'd be a little
(26:03):
concerned about that back injury. You know, that's a tough
deal as you get older.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Okay, finally, you know, I've always loved Sam Donald. Last
year through fourteen weeks, it was a very fun story
for me. But when you watched him, was it about
Kevin O'Connell and Justin Jefferson? Do you see him going
to Seattle with a defensive coach with an offensive line
(26:28):
that was bad last year? Do you think he replicates it?
Is he now overvalued based on a remarkable coach Justin Jefferson,
solid run game. Where are you on Sam Donald off
of last season? What does the film tell you?
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Well?
Speaker 8 (26:45):
I think that the reason that Seattle wanted Donald is
because with Kubiak there as the OC, they're going to
run a lot of similar concepts as the Vikings did.
They're putting him under center because I believe Donald last
year was either the second or third most dropbacks as
a conventional play action quarterback meeting.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
He was under center.
Speaker 8 (27:06):
That's what he did really well under Kevin O'Connell, and
that's what Kubiak is going to do. They're going to
start with the outside zone run game, put Donald under center,
and let the play action game be a foundation of
what they do. There's less reading involved in the play
action game, particularly when you're under center. It holds the
second level defenders better because they have a longer time
(27:27):
to wait to see if it's run or pass. So
I think the thought process was Donald was very good
running that style of offense, that philosophical style, and now
we're going to do something very similar and Colin.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
By the way, most quarterbacks need.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
A particular style, a particular philosophy to be effective. There's
very few transcendent quarterbacks that you can just say, let's
do anything and they'll be great. So that, to me
is not a knock on Donald. That's the way it
is with most quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Greg Cosel Year's NFL films this point forward. For the
next twenty twenty two weeks, it's going to be Greg
Cosell on Thursdays as always, Great Senior.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
In recent years, one of the best coaching jobs was
done by Kevin Stefanski of the Cleveland Browns in twenty
twenty three. In that division, he won eleven games and
his quarterbacks were Old Creaky Joe Flacco, Oud Deshaun Watson,
P J. Walker, and Dorian Thompson Robinson. Kevin Stefanski's a
(28:34):
hell of a coach, went to Penn. He knows more
than you do about offense. I know hard to believe
he does, and he knows more than me. He has
announced that Joe Flacco will start against the Rams twenty
five to thirty plays for the starters. Dylan Gabriel is
the backup. Shadoor Sanders is third. I know you've got
(28:58):
your shador slash Barry Sanders jersey you're wearing. I know,
and I've said before I think Shadeur was underdrafted. I
think he was, but speeding tickets silliness. Dylan Gabriel is
a much more kind of centered, serious kid, and Shadeur.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Is third. I gotta trust Stefanski.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Guy won eleven games with like musical chairs at quarterback
in twenty twenty three in the AFC in a division
with the Ravens Joe Burrow. He won eleven games. He
knows more than I do. I know you are absolutely
sure you could be president. You would do a better job.
(29:45):
The where are we live and everybody's an expert. Everybody's
an epidemiologist during a pandemic. Kevin Stefanski's a smart guy.
It's one of the two Ivy League coaches in the league.
He's a pretty smart guy. He won eleven games with
that nonsense in twenty twenty three. He's got Dylan Gabriel
two and three. Greg Cosell was on twenty five minutes ago,
and I asked him, what do you see. You've seen
both of them play in the preseason. What do you see.
Speaker 8 (30:08):
Offensive coaches they think about how does a player work
within my scheme? And what Gabriel is is he's essentially
stylistically similar to a too attaga Iloa. Sanders is a
little different player. He's not quite as rhythmic, and he
has a tendency. And this showed up on tape, by
the way, even though the good outweighed the bad when
(30:29):
he played two weeks ago. He tends to drift a
little in the pocket. He tends to retreat in the pocket.
You know how many quarterbacks are the Browns going to keep?
No team keeps four quarterbacks, So it's going to be
interesting going down the stretch here. And so then Sanders
got hurt and missed some time in practice, and that's
not going to help him.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
So let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
The entire NFL told you he's a fifth round pick,
and the Browns are telling you he's a third string quarterback. Overvalued.
I'm guilty as charged. I thought, Oh, I can see
him fall into the second round. I guess I'm wrong,
but the league told you. And by the way, seven
teams annually are desperate for quarterback and another fifteen are
(31:14):
desperate for a backup. The whole league pass for four rounds,
and many of us believe Jimmy Haslam, the owner of
the Browns, is the one that nudged the front office
into drafting him. So the brown drafted Dylan Gabriel two
rounds before. So you can run to your Reddit board
and dogpound dot com and say it's a conspiracy. But
(31:34):
the whole league told you he's a fifth round quarterback,
and the Browns are telling you. Kevin Stefanski, who won
eleven games in twenty twenty three with nonsense in a
division with the Ravens, well in the AFC, he's like
his third string quarterback. I you know, I think I'm
pretty good on the quarterback thing now that Sam Darnold
(31:55):
can play. I haven't missed a ton on quarterbacks. I thought,
I thought Shur, I thought, I don't know. I watched
Jackson Dart with better teammates. I watched Shador with a
bad college O line and no run game. He really productive,
productive against much better rosters, much much better rosters.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
But the league and the Browns, they're they're telling.
Speaker 8 (32:22):
You, eh, eh.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I mean, I know this is hard for guys, but
sometimes you have to admit there are people that are
are behind the rope. They have access, they see stuff.
I mean it sounded like to me. Remember Greg Cosel
said a couple of weeks ago on the show. He said,
he said, Shadour is accurate, but he's not as accurate
as the analysts are saying. The film tells you he's
(32:49):
not that accurate. He's accurate, but uh. And for the record,
the Browns have everything to gain on Shadur plane. If
I mean, if Chedeur could be the starter, are you
kidding me? That would be unbelievable as a fifth raft pick.
(33:10):
Look what it's done to the Niners. You can stack
your roster, you can get out from under that horrible
Deshaun Watson contract. They would love, they would love for
Shahur as a fifth rown pick, to be a starting quarterback.
There's no there's no advantage to the Browns bearing him.
And I said, I looked at Dylan Gabriel in college
(33:30):
and my take was he had great coaching and talent
at Oregon. He's just too small, He's going to struggle
kind of seeing the field, and he's acknowledged he can.
I just I just thought, I mean, he, you know,
he looked smaller, and I'd seen photos of him next
to other, you know, athletes at Oregon and I thought,
I just don't see that as an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I do.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I've always said size matters unless you're like Kyler Murray
or Russell Wilson in your prime and you can run
around and you're so elusive. That's not Dylan Gabriel Schadour's
a legit six two. Shador moves well enough and he
was really accurate behind with no talent around him at Colorado.
But Stefanski knows more than I do, and I trust
(34:09):
him and there's no value in bearing him. I would
love to be on dog Poundbarks dot com today. I
bet you our website is lit. I bet they're going
crazy in everybody stinks but us in Cleveland dot com.
I would love to be on that. I don't have
(34:30):
my phone with me. Dogs by Nature is that the
big one?
Speaker 3 (34:38):
That site is roaring today? John, what do you make
of it?
Speaker 9 (34:43):
Didn't Sefanski tell you what he thought about Shador when
he had the chance to take him in the third round,
and he took another quarterback. And even if you say, well,
the GM pick the players, no one picks a quarterback
for an offensive head coach. That's the offensive head coach,
even if he's not the boss in the draft room.
Quarterbacks are baby. He chose Dylan Gabriel in the third round.
Now we can disagree, and I do. I thought that
(35:04):
was a little crazy, but he clearly likes Dylan Gabriel.
I mean that's not debatable. And Dylan Gabriel as what two, three, four,
five years worth of college experience that they're basing this
off of.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Let's check out wolfwolf dot com and see what they're saying.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Man is this is good dog Biscuit dot com. Let's
go check it out right now.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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