August 25, 2025 • 36 mins
Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin discussing Browns quarterback Shedeur Sanders struggling in his final action of the preseason and what we can expect from the larger-than-life 5th round pick in Cleveland as the regular season approaches. As the contract stalemate between Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and Micah Parsons continues to drag on, Jason questions the approach by Jones with only 10 days remaining until Dallas kicks off the season against the Eagles. Plus, he talks to NFL reporter Mike Jones about Bears QB Caleb Williams facing challenges in adapting to the new offense under head coach Ben Johnson.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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for listening to The Herd Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To the Herd, It's me Jason McIntyre in for Colin Coward.
He is enjoying the last days of summer before football begins.
It is a beautiful Monday, and I'm joined by Rachel Nichols.
Everybody knows and loves Rachel Nichols, a longtime veteran journalist, host, analyst.
(00:44):
I mean she's done everything, Rachel, how was your weekend?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know, I was in Orlando for the Big Three
Championship game working with CBS, so it was kind of
crazy to see how much that lead has grown. Yeah,
right when it started, it was sort of like a
random off thing to do in the summer, and like
it's legit, man night, it's a full packed arena and
your names, you know, like Michael Beasley, Land, Stevenson, Mare
Chalmers winning the title.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
So you saw that fun. Orlando, very sunny in August,
a little heat there.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It wasn't my favorite location to be in August, but
you know, you go where the basketball is.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Yes, speaking of heat. My week off, I popped over.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
To Vegas, made some bets for the season, the upcoming
football season, and I saw Dave Matthews in concert. Excellent show.
As always, We have an excellent show ahead. We'll do
some gambling a lot of NFL as the week. We
are now ten days away from the beginning of the
NFL season. Oh boy, I am very excited. However, before
I left for vacation, there were a couple of big
(01:42):
NFL stories. Caleb Williams, is he gonna mesh with Ben Johnson?
I return, and it's still a problem. The Dallas Cowboys.
Michael Parsons, what's going on with him? And Jerry It's
still a problem. But bigger than both of those, perhaps combined,
is the shit Doer Sanders developing situation in Cleveland.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Folks.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
There's no way around this. He is the most hyped
fifth round draft pick in the history of football. And
Chadour took the field in the second half for the
Browns and as you can see, here on FS one,
it was a bit of a poop show. In the
final preseason game for Shadoor Sanders, he was an unmitigated disaster.
(02:25):
In the second half, he was three for six for
fourteen yards.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And it gets worse.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
He was sacked as you could see, running for his
life five times for minus forty one yards. So, if
you're keeping track at home, Rachel and I had more
net passing yards than Shadure Sanders did on Saturday night, folks,
this was bad, but a funny thing happened as the
critiques unfolded Sunday morning. And listen, I'm telling you right now,
(02:55):
every single podcast, TV show, radio show, anybody writing about
the NFL today is leading with Shador Sanders because it's
just so wacky what's going on in Cleveland. So you
guys know, in Hollywood out out here in LA there's
a thing called a nepo baby, Right, your mom or
dad were famous.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So they were in music or entertainment and they.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Get handed something, whether it's an album, a TV role, directing,
and usually they're panned.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Oh come on, nepo baby, they were handed it. They've
got to prove.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It before they get the accolades. The opposite seems to
be happening with Shadoor. Sanders his legion of fans. He's
now a celebrity quarterback. They're just expecting him to make
the roster. I don't know that it's a one hundred
percent lock. I think he's gonna make it. We'll know
by Tuesday at four o'clock. But everybody's just expecting him
(03:48):
to be given everything, and folks, that's just not how
it works in the NFL. And if you listen to
shaduur talk, I mean, after this performance against the Rams,
it was bad and there's some more bad news coming
after it. But here's Shadoor talking about, Oh my gosh,
how upset he was that he was pulled before getting.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
A chance to redeem himself in the two minute draw.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
If I could go back and do anything, I mean,
it's always everything in.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
Life if you had that chance.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
But we don't have the lux for you to travel
back in time. As a kid, I want to go
back and do things differently. So overall, of course, you
know you wish you can, But in the battle, the moment,
in the heat of the battle, you know you want
to be the out. You want to be that dog
you want to be out there in that final two
minute drive, so you know, of course, of course small things,
of course frustrate, but that that's what happens, you know,
(04:39):
when you want a player to be able to change
a franchise.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, smiling on the outside, maybe crying on the inside.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Listen, it was very clear he.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Was not happy to be pulled by Stefanski. So they
put in Snoop Puntley, veteran quarterback twenty seven years old,
second tour of duty with the Browns.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
He leads him right down the field for the game
when fieldbal okay.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And all these fans of Shador, I'm trying to understand
why they love him so much, and he's like, he's
a guy, I get it. His dad is Deon Sanders,
and he's kind of swagged out.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
But he was terrible. Can we be real?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Pro Football Focus had a number that was staggering. Shadeur's
average time to throw was five point one to three
seconds Saturday night. That's an eternity for a quarterback. And
he was still sacked five times in playing backyard football
and running around.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
So yet this weird thing happens, Well, wait.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
A minute, hold on, did you see that the Browns
cut four of the five linemen who were blocking for Shador.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
They cut them on sat on Sunday, so they weren't
giving Shador a fair chance.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Hello, guys, two of those linemen who were cut were
also playing for Dylan Gabriel in the first half, and
Dylan Gabriel absolutely cooked, moved the team up and down
the field nine for eleven, had a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
And oh, by the way, two of those linemen.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Were also blocking for Stup Huntley on that final two
minute drive. And side note, Dylan Gabriel was not sacked.
Stup Huntley was not sacked. So Kevin Stefanski, naturally he's
getting asked, yo, were you trying to sabotage your quarterback?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Which is mind blowing nonsense. Here's Stefanski.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Can you address this sort of persistent narrative that that
you're trying to sabotage Shadoor Sanders, especially after, you know,
after yesterday and not putting him in for the two minute.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
Yeah, obviously I don't.
Speaker 8 (06:35):
I don't concern myself with outside type of things, but uh,
you know, I'm committed to his development just like all
of our rookies. So I We'll continue to focus on
getting our guys better, and that's what we'll stay committed to,
and that's what's important to me.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Things are not good for Stefanski. Member, this is a
guy who at to deal with the Baker Mayfield nonsense.
Baker Mayfield, of course, was trying to play through an
injury to grint.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
It out disaster. Then he had Deshaun Watson. Awful, let's
not just speak of it, folks.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
This is reminiscent of Bronnie James from two summers ago. Okay,
remember it was like, who's the first pick in the
Brownie Draft? I don't know, Bronnie went to the Lakers.
It's all anybody cares about. Did you know Kim Ward
got in a preseason fight? Good luck fighting that online.
You know how Travis Hunter doing trying to be a
generational two way profit?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Oh, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It's all about the fifth round or Shaudur, Folks, I
have a solution.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
I'm one of these guys. I like to be solution oriented.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Apparently, you know, when the wife is upset with something,
you're supposed to really listen and take it in, And
I'm instantly like, let's just fast forward to the solution.
I cannot deal with this negativity, so I want to
deal with the solution for Shadeur. And I got shouted
down in the morning meeting when I said, I got it. Guys,
did you see the Raiders? They lost ad O'Connell out
six eight weeks fractured in. If I'm the Brown, get
(08:01):
chaduor out of here, please, I can't deal with this anymore.
Let's just ship him to the Raiders. Jay, nobody's trading
for Shador. Well, wait a sec, Wait a sec. Pete
Carroll did meet with Shadeur at the Combine. Schadeur loves Vegas.
Go look at his Instagram from January February. A big
fan of Vegas called Vegas legendary. It's not really legendary anymore,
(08:22):
but I understand why wouldn't the Raiders say, hey, let's
bring him in to be the backup. He can learn
from Gino Smith, who, by the way, struggled big time
when he was with the Jets right out of college.
Go ask Mark Sanchez about that. Sorry, Mark, listen, I
think Shadur can learn a lot. Nobody's gonna ask for
him to start in Vegas. Want to ship him out
of town. Hey man, we'll take a week and get
(08:42):
let's cut our losses. We don't need these headaches. And
guess who else is following them out the door? The
entire media. Nobody won't care about Cleveland anymore.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Browns.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You got to fix this now, from one problem to another.
Let's go to Dallas and uh Jerry Jones to Michah Parsons.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I think this is like round nine. I think is
that where we are? Folks?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I'm sure you saw the video from the weekend the
Dallas Cowboys played a preseason game. Michael Parsons the only
cowboy on the sideline not in a jersey. Michael Parsons
also laying down on a table while the football was
being played, And of course the media is freaking out.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Who cares what happened on the field because it's Michaeh Parsons. Now,
Michael's got a bad back.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But the Brian Schottenheimer spoke to the media and was like, hey,
he came back pretty clean. You can see where this
is headed. It's about to get ugly in Dallas. You know,
I already think the Cowboys are gonna be a bit
of a dumpster fire. But let's hear Jerry Jones talking
about the situation with his star defender Michaeh Parsons.
Speaker 9 (09:47):
We wanted to send the details to the agent. The agent,
so it was to stick it up. We had our
agreements on term amun, guarantees, everything. We were going to
send it over to the agent, and the agent said,
don't bother because we've got all that to negotiate. A lot,
already negotiated that, already moved off my marm own several areas.
(10:10):
It's the mama daddy deal. You go into mama and
she won't do it, and she's the boss, so boss,
she won't do it. So you run into daddy. Daddy says,
do it, and then you go back in say mama,
Daddy said it was all right.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You lost me there, Jerry. Sounds like a Thanksgiving dinner
story from your grandpa.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I don't want to be too harsh here on Jerry Jones.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
He's a power player in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I get it, But I am one thousand percent siding
with Michael Parsons here a thousand.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
It's not even close.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I got to pick up for the little man in
this discussion with a billionaire.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Jerry, this isn't your first rodeo.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That's not how negotiations work. You can't just do have
a sideal with the player and then it goes to
the agent. You're ah, not gonna have. That's just not
how it works. Now, Jerry's been down this road before.
Deal with DAK was a disaster, strung it out.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
To the last moment.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Deal with CD Lamb did not go well, that was ugly,
But Jerry gets it on some level. We are now
in an attention economy, right, that's what it's all about.
Are you talking about Dallas?
Speaker 6 (11:20):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Is Jerry going on Michael Irvin's podcast. I didn't even
know Mike had a podcast. Maybe that's new. Congratulations Mike,
and Jerry's making the rounds and he's just talk about us.
We're Dallas, Please keep us in the news. And then
as many people suspect, a deal will get down at
the last moment. Chris Jones, you guys remember with the
Chiefs a couple of years ago, or maybe it was
(11:43):
last year, or whenever they played the Lions in Week one.
He missed the game and it was like, Okay, we've
got to get the.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Chris Jones deal done.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But what's different is Chris Jones had made a lot
of money Mikes still on his rookie deal, and Jerry
said something last week about how, hey, we've got him
under contract.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
For three more years. That sounds like he's pretty dug in.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
If you're a Dallas fan and you love Michael Parsons,
I'm gonna go ahead and guess he's the best selling
jersey on the Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
If it's not number one, it's two or three, it's
right there at the top.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
You're starting to alienate your fan base a little over
what a contract really. You were gonna make him the
highest paid and now you're not because the agent is
getting involved. Like I'm just hopeful, folks, that this is
the last last we're gonna hear this and Dallas both
sides come to the table and get a deal done. However,
(12:32):
if you want to go back to this Emmett Smith situation,
which is slightly different because he was a free agent,
but he was at the height of his powers. The
Cowboys were a juggernaut in the mid nineties and Emmett
remember sat out the first two games of the season
waiting for a deal, ended up getting it after they
went zero and two. What happens if the Cowboys get
smashed in week one with know Michael Parsons, does Jerry
(12:53):
capitulate or does he say we've got him.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
For three more years?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, Micah, you know, he could bring in an independent
doctor and say, oh my back, I can't go, Hey
can't play, and it gets really ugly. Now it could
already be a lost season for Dallas. But can't we
all just get along? I mean, I'm hopeful, I'm really
hopeful the Cowboys. We need stars like Michael Parsons in
this league. So Rachel, I don't know, we'll see. I'm
(13:19):
really rooting for Mica to get it done. But this
this negotiation looks kind of ugly.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It feels different than some of the other ones you
mentioned right there. Feels like there's more bad blood here.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
And the Cowboys have an advantage.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
They've got two years of franchising they can do after
this year, which is the last year.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
On his contract.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
So Jerry has said we got three years to work
this out. So Mike is not in the power position here,
and if he just continues to sit out and sit out,
it'll cost him money if he can't get a medical excuse,
and even if he can, this is years off his
prime years of his career.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
It's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
He hasn't made and he didn't make that much in
NIL because it was a COVID years of its.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I'm rooting for you, Michael, but it's an uphill climb.
Speaker 10 (14:02):
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Speaker 11 (14:11):
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We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
In the world.
Speaker 11 (14:29):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
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(14:52):
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If you miss any of the live show, just search
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Speaker 1 (15:08):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern, nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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Speaker 4 (15:31):
Welcome back our number two here on the Herd. A
beautiful Monday morning in Los Angeles. It's a bit of
a heatwave out here, touch eighty over the weekend. Maria
in the South Bay brutal. What I'm gonna do? ZIZI
backa taran for Colin Coward.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Join bye, Rachel Nichols telling us Brett Farm long stories.
Speaker 8 (15:52):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
She's got a lot of good stuff. Cover the NFL
for more than a decade. There's a lot of good
stories buried in there, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Goodness, we got Mike Jones of the Athletic coming up.
This is Aaron Rodgers stuff. I was thinking about it on
the elevator ride. I'm not going to fire it now.
We touched on earlier. We'll we'll get to Aaron Rodgers
here shortly, but I want to start briefly with a
team and a player near and dear to Colin Cowhard,
(16:19):
and that's Caleb Williams of the Bears. Listen, the preseason
has basically all the oxygen has been sucked out by
like four guys. Michael Parsons, Shador Sanders, Caleb Williams definitely
leading the charge. Aaron Rodgers's distant third or fourth. But
this Caleb Williams stuff is just I don't know what
to make of it.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Again.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Two years ago, the talk was, oh, Caleb boy, he
could be the face of the NFL in four years.
We get so freaking excited about these guys. For one
season of college football, some dynamic throws at Caleb Williams,
he was awesome at times for USC. Then he fell
into like the backyard quarterback stuff and now he gets
(17:00):
a good coach and we're expecting greatness. And the last
month has been anything but great from Caleb Williams and
cryptic stuff from Ben Johnson.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
All Right, I'm not going to be out here hammering
Caleb Williams again.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Last week I mentioned Johnny Manzel and all the sicko
fans in Chicago like came after me. Folks listen to
Ben Johnson after their preseason game against the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
You listen to this.
Speaker 12 (17:28):
Offensively, the first two possessions was really sloppy football that
you know has plugged us in and out of camp
so far. It is disappointing to me offensively for sure,
because that's I thought that we'd kind of worked our
way out of that. The first quarter was really any
indication it's not good enough.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
So we got to get better in a hurry.
Speaker 12 (17:51):
But yeah, we got to make sure that we start
faster on offense and on defense.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh boy, now listen, this is his first road as
a head coach. Oh see in Detroit behind walk around
guy Dan Campbell, who we will get you interesting story
on Campbell later.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
In the show.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
But is Ben Johnson coming in a little bit hot?
Here a lot of veiled comments about Caleb, and I
don't want to I don't know Caleb. I've never spoken
to him, but I don't want to presume his psyche.
But there were some things we saw in college. Maybe
it was a college kid where he didn't exactly react
(18:30):
great when things were not going his way. And I'm
gonna play a clip for you here about Ben Johnson
talking about someone. But before I play it, we're running
highlights from their Chiefs game. The very first play was
a fumble with Caleb Williams under center. Now was on
the handoff, but still that's not Chris. That's sloppy, bro,
(18:52):
your second year quarterback, your face of the franchise. Bears
fans are like, always you gotta throw for four thousand yards?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We get the snap and the Cadence down. Okay, So
here's the quote. Listen to Ben Johnson. I'm not going
to tell you the answer till the end, but think
about who he's talking about here.
Speaker 12 (19:10):
I've really been blown away by his approach from the
spring to the start of camp to where we are now.
He does a tremendous job, knowing what to do, how
to do it, and getting it done.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Okay, he's not talking about Caleb Williams. He's gassing up
his backup quarterback. As Rachel said first hour, the backup
quarterback is always the most popular guy in town. That's
Tyson Beaijen, whose father was like a proclaimed arm wrestler.
And oh, by the way, Beijen just got a new deal. Huh,
what are you giving a backup quarterback?
Speaker 6 (19:45):
Who?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I mean, I'm not of the belief that he's like
one of the elite quarterbackups in the league, but that
had to raise some eyebrows in the Caleb Williams camp.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
No paying this backup. It's my job.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, we get that, but we want some insurance. That's
not a good sign. Now again, this is all preseason.
Maybe the live bullets start firing and Caleb is unbelievable.
But I've got my doubts, folks, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
All right, let's bring in Mike Jones from the Athletic Covers.
The NFL covered the NFL for the last fifteen years
worked at the Washington Post. Someone here knows someone here
read that newspaper growing up, and someone here worked for
that newspaper.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Mike, how are you, man?
Speaker 6 (20:32):
I'll go, well, how are you guys doing this morning?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
You know, I can't complain. It's Monday.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Football's almost here, We're ten days away from the opener.
I do have to ask, though, you know, you do
a lot of podcasts, You're going on a lot of
TV radio shows. Are you surprised by the amount of
questions about Shador Sanders, a fifth round pick who is
fourth on the depth, like he's the topic djur in
the NFL.
Speaker 13 (20:55):
Yeah, I mean I have written a lot about him,
you know, coming out of the draft, and there's been
just a huge buzz about the Sanders, him and also
his brother as well.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
And you know, yeah, I was talking to somebody just this.
Speaker 13 (21:09):
Morning and about all the just the scrutiny that is
surrounding him and the Browns and the handling of him,
and I'm like, you know, when you really think about it,
this is a fifth round pick. Like we don't really
talk about fifth round pick quarterbacks and the other opportunities
are limited, but this isn't a normal fifth round pick.
This is the guy that we thought would go a
lot higher and whose skill set we are led to
(21:31):
believe is, you know, much better than a regular fifth
round pick. So again, the brand, the name, everything has
just made this a bigger deal he is. I'm putting
together my list of twenty five most intriguing players entering
the twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
Five season, and I'm not gonna you.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Know, she's probably on that list, probably the top five.
That was interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You use a word, Mike, You said brand. A rookie
quarterback who was taking the fifth round has a brand.
I'm trying to think Josh Allen when he came into
the league from Wyoming, what was his brand?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Did Patrick Mahomes have one? Out of Texas Tech? Like
the fact that he has.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
A brand like, great for him, But I don't know
that that's actually what you want your quarterback having coming
out of college, is it?
Speaker 6 (22:16):
Well?
Speaker 13 (22:17):
I mean, this is a new even, you know, a
new age, even from when Josh Allen and when Patrick
Mahomes were coming out.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
Yeah, they didn't have brands.
Speaker 13 (22:28):
You know, there wasn't the whole There was social media,
but not the level that it is now where guys
have YouTube channels and nil deals and all kinds of
things like that. You know, this guy's got a Hall
of Fame football coach father, you know, and so football
player turned football coach as a father.
Speaker 6 (22:45):
So yeah, there's a whole lot more with here. But
I think that the.
Speaker 13 (22:48):
Thing that is most important is does he have a
work ethic?
Speaker 6 (22:51):
You know, yeah, he's got a brand. Does have a
work ethics?
Speaker 13 (22:53):
Does he have you know, teachability and all those things,
the athleticism, everything it takes to be an NFL player.
As long as you have that, then teams don't care
if you have a brand. But you know, you're talking
about Caleb Williams. He certainly, you know, had kind of
a brand coming out.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
And you know, it's not always about that stuff.
Speaker 13 (23:12):
It's what you can do on this higher level than
what you were in college.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
You're you're right, it is kind of a new era.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I think Johnny Manzel probably had a brand, is that
fair to say, coming out of A and M.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I don't know if it was a good brand, right,
but it was a brand.
Speaker 13 (23:26):
There was, Yeah, there was there was a kind of
a cult following type of thing about him. You know,
I don't think it's quite the whole. You know, is
the same level as Chadors.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
But yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Like that Trevor Lawrence kind of a he's in is
he a bust or not?
Speaker 6 (23:44):
Kind?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
But I don't think he has a brand. He just
hasn't been a good quarterback. I mean, he's not a
jeopardy of getting bench. But let's spin it forward a
do you think the Browns keep Shador? Do you think
they Is it possible? I floated the idea of trading
him to the Raiders, just getting him off the roster,
getting whatever. You can't just take a seventh round pick
to take the loss. I don't know what's your guests
(24:06):
for Shador Week one?
Speaker 6 (24:08):
No, I mean I think that he's on the team.
Speaker 13 (24:10):
I'm not saying that he's going to be active in
Week one, but I think that he's going to be
on this team. There are still people in that building
who really believe in his potential. And look, if he's
not ready, it's okay. They have a really tough stretch
of their season here to open the schedule. You would
be much more comfortable with Joe Flacco going up against
(24:31):
some of those defenses, Like you know, you know, in
Detroit and Green Bay and Baltimore. Why throw a rookie
to the wolves like that. But there's also questions about
the handling of Shador and the developmental plan and if
the Browns are all on the same page on how
to get him ready, you know, and so there are
questions about that. But I think that, yeah, he's going
(24:51):
to be on this team. We'll see what the progress is.
I wouldn't be surprised, you know, late this year we
wind up seeing him in the field. It wouldn't surprise
me at all.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Let's go to Aaron Rodgers briefly, hopefully only briefly. He
kind of was talking on a podcast with DK Metcalf
and DK Metcalf flow.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
To, hey, maybe maybe you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Staying beyond this year, you know, maybe we'll run it back,
and Aaron Rodgers said, maybe, Mike.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
What are we to take of Aaron Rodgers at this point?
I mean, we.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Haven't even got to the him versus Arthur Smith stuff
that's gonna bubble up inevitably, But like, where are you
on Rogers in Pittsburgh?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Are they? Is he going to make your most intriguing list?
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (25:36):
Look, he everything is great, right, now, I was up
there for training Gimp in Latrow a couple of weeks ago,
and you know, he's talking about loving like remembering how
to play video games and playing cards with the guys
and connecting and being in this, you know, back with
the Stables story franchise, kind of liking Green Bay with
the head.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Coach he really respects and all that stuff.
Speaker 13 (25:58):
But there are no bullets are flying yet, and so
we'll see what happens when that offensive line struggles to
protect him and the run game is just kind of
man and you know, and this defense provide the backing
it needs. It seems like they've added pieces like Jalen
Ramsey and Sleigh, and they retained TJ.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Watt and extended him. But still there are a lot of.
Speaker 13 (26:18):
Questions here, and so I wrote about that, like, hey,
the field, good vibes are good, But that's going to
take way more than that, and it's more to do
what's around Aaron Rodgers that's going to say how successful
this is.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
And just like you said, we saw it in New York.
Speaker 13 (26:34):
Everything was great and then when things started getting hairy,
there was finger pointing and Rogers is not afraid to
pull back the curtain and call out dysfunction, and so
we could see that happen in Pittsburgh. Yes, we think
of them as really stable under Mike Tomlin, you know,
nose losing seasons. But if this thing is not playing
out really well, we could see a frustrated Rogers definitely
(26:55):
air some dirty laundry.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Oh, can't wait for that one. Let's go to Washington.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Terry mcclurey and just got a new deal today, three years,
ninety six mil. Happy for Washington. Rachel has some concerns
about the defense. I am a little skeptical.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I grew up in the DC area.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
A lot of my buddies are like doing that again.
Run to the NFC championship would be difficult. You wrote
a piece on Daniels last month that I thought was
a good one.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I'm curious your thoughts on Washington.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Can they even come close to duplicating last year's heroics.
Speaker 13 (27:27):
That's gonna be tough. You know, they came out of nowhere.
Now they're on everybody's radar. They can't sneak up on anybody.
I think the moves that they've made in the offseason,
Adam Peters and Dan Quinn as they put this thing together.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
Their roster is.
Speaker 13 (27:40):
Definitely better as a whole, but that doesn't mean that
they're going to have a better season. To have a
better season, they basically have to get back to the
NFC Championship and get to the super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
That's the only way you top that.
Speaker 13 (27:52):
Now you have expectations, you know, So I still think
they can win ten games, but that doesn't mean that
they're going to wind up making a deeper playoff run.
I still think that Philadelphia winds up winning that division.
They just are so strong top to bottom. But it's
going to be interesting for Washington how they continue to evolve.
What do they do to stay a step ahead of
the defenses Kingsbury and Jade Daniels. I think they have
(28:14):
the potential to have a really good season again, but again,
that's a tougher season, tougher schedule of games, tougher competition,
So it'll be hard to surpass last year.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, specifically that defense, like Jayden Daniels, just kept bailing
them out last year. I think they had five or
six wins in.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
The final minute or what have you.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I'm looking at that front seven and it's like that
is toothless, like they got old dudes and kind of
not to be disrespectful, just non factors. I mean, Marshawn
Lottimore hasn't been healthy in half a decade, So I
just don't know how they stop anybody. And they're in
a division where the Eagles offense is a juggernaut. Brian
Dable is a sharp guy, Milik neighbors are very good
(28:53):
and let's be real, Dallas has.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Dak Pickens and and Ceedee Lamb like that alone is
going to give Washington problem.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So I don't is there a world where they slip
back to third in the division.
Speaker 13 (29:05):
I do think that day in Dallas will be going
back and forth head to head for that number two
spot right there.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
It's possible.
Speaker 13 (29:13):
I agree with you on your concerns about the defense
they brought in von Miller, but I don't know that
he's really.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
The answer as far as a pass rusher.
Speaker 13 (29:21):
You know it's going to take a lot of creativity
from Dan Quinn. Once again. Bobby Wagner is a guy
who sets a good tone, but you know he's not
a spring chicken and that secondary. You know, there are
a lot of questions, and I don't know they've drafted
some young guys and we'll see how they developed. But
I don't know that they were really able to take
this defense to another level. But I guess they're hoping
(29:43):
with Terry mccluurin, Deebo, Samuel, Jayden Daniels, that maybe their
offense can put up more.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
Points and so they won't have to rely on those
closet finishes. But that's a lot of ifs.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, let me ask you, Mike, I missed this news
last week. All I was out.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
The Colts decided Daniel Jones is our guy. You know,
k surprising, but Richardson did not have an inspiring preseason.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
He's always hurt, still not accurate.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So let's give Daniel Jones props for getting out of Minnesota,
right he knew he wasn't gonna play with McCarthy. There
gets to a spot where he can play. But what
does this do for Richardson? Like this is kind of
I mean, they drafted him to be the guy and
now it's like you can't even beat out Daniel Jones, who,
let's be real, is not a good quarterback.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Is Richardson's time up in Indy or what are you hearing?
Speaker 6 (30:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (30:28):
No, I think that's very concerning because look, obviously he
was a guy that you knew, yes physically a specimen,
had some great college tape, doesn't have a whole lot
of college tape.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
I don't think he's actually had, you know.
Speaker 13 (30:41):
I think it was a stat that I heard last
week that he doesn't even have two thousand plays yet
under his belt between college and the NFL.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
So it takes a while to develop.
Speaker 13 (30:52):
And so you're hoping that you do the things, all
the things, carry yourself like a pro, and continue to develop.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
But from the sounds of things, he was doing all
of those things.
Speaker 13 (31:01):
That's the reason why last year you got pinched, because
they were hoping to get through to him and kind
of get his attention, and they went to Joe Flacco
for a little bit here and.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Again, the durability is an issue.
Speaker 13 (31:10):
You know, the coaches say the best ability is availability,
and if you're not able to stay on the field
not carrying yourself like a pro, then you're going to
go to a guy. And so it's going to be
hard to go back to him unless he totally, you know,
kind of you know, gets in line and is doing
all the work and growing through practice, reps, but that's
not the same as game speed.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
It's going to be tough.
Speaker 13 (31:31):
Yes, they're going to Daniel Jones. They're going to have
to run the ball a whole lot. I think that's
the blueprint that the Giant showed a couple of years
ago when they made it to the playoffs. Squeaked in there.
They relied on Saquon Barkley a whole lot. They didn't
put a whole lot one to Daniel Jones's shoulders. I
think Andy will run, lean on the run game, lean
on their defense, and hope that Danielones can just take
care of the football because you know, you're not going
(31:52):
to get a whole lot of touchdown passes out of him,
because that was definitely not something that he was known
for in New York.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, I got to ask Mike listen, do you answer that.
I'm just trying to think back. We've seen a lot
of these quarterbacks who go top five, top ten. It
seems like more than normal in the last I don't know, five, six,
seven years, and they seem to flop in their first spot,
but they can thrive afterward. Baker Mayfield comes to mind,
(32:19):
Sam Darnold comes to mind, Anthony Richardson, there's others. I'm
just wondering, do you think what do you think this
is about? Is it guys are getting overdrafted. Is it
we still don't know how to identify quarterbacks?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
What's the issue?
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Well, I think that there's this pressure.
Speaker 13 (32:37):
Okay, we got this guy we need. You know, lots
of times they're drafted to bad franchises, right, the guys
like Patrick Mahomes, who the Chiefs jumped up to trade
and draft him and then he sat behind Alex.
Speaker 6 (32:48):
Smith for a year and was able to develop a lot.
Speaker 13 (32:50):
Of these are bad franchises, except for you know, San Francisco.
They had Trey Lance, but it wasn't a real developmental
plan for a lot of these guys, and they're playing
sooner than what they should.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
They should.
Speaker 13 (33:02):
Okay, if you're going to spend that high pick on
a guy, okay, but have a veter in place, let
him start. Let this guy learn, Especially some of these
guys like Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, who don't have a
whole lot of college experience. The guys who are three
and four year starters. It doesn't happen a whole lot anymore.
But those guys are better off coming into the NFL.
Like Jade Daniels had a lot of experience in college
(33:24):
and that's why he was able to make a better transition.
But so many of these young guys, they're playing sooner
than they need to, and then the patience is not
there because coaches don't have a whole lot of time
to save their jobs before owners getting patient and you know,
heads start to roll, and so it's just a whole
mess in the way that they're drafting, developing or not developing,
(33:45):
and playing guys sooner than they should.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Yeah, I'm looking at the list. It's not just a
COVID thing either.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
There were you know, Bryce Young by the way, this
could be his last shot, but there's been other guys
and I'm just you know, you see names like Josh Rosen,
Mitch Trubisky. No, given that even Caleb Williams is going
to work out in Chicago, I don't want to be
too negative. I know people of Jason. Come on, he's
got to be fine, is he, Mike? I can't say
for sure, can you No, we can't say for sure.
Speaker 13 (34:14):
But the thing is you have to remember he was
in such an awful situation last year. Then you have
like three offensive coordinators throughout the course of the year.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
And so if you're learning and then everything.
Speaker 13 (34:25):
Keeps getting changed, and now you have a new coach,
you have going to learn a new language, a new
way of doing things.
Speaker 6 (34:31):
I think that this is going to be a year
of growing pains for him.
Speaker 13 (34:34):
But if he can get on the same page and
understand and take all the tutoring that the math the
math scientists that Ben Johnson is, then I think it's
possible that we could see him still be Okay, it's
way too.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Early to pull the plug or to panic, but you have.
Speaker 13 (34:51):
To understand that again, he's having to relearn a lot
of things.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
Last year we saw.
Speaker 13 (34:56):
Him get sacked more than any other quarterback in the league.
Did upgrade their offensive line, but lots of times he
was trying to make something out of nothing. Think he
could do what he did in USC or he's running around,
you know, across the field and back the other way.
You know, you've got defensive linemen that are faster than
that and are going to plank you into the ground. Now,
so you got to learn to get rid of the
ball quickly and make good decisions. And that's what he's
(35:17):
going to have to understand if he wants to make
it in the NFL, and I think it's possible.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
It's just gonna take some time. All right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
We could wrap up, you know, for fantasy purposes. Some
of us may have three or four drafts this week.
Matthew Stafford, what are you hearing on the Rams quarterback?
Because there's a lot of people out here in the
dark thinking like, oh, it's gonna be bad.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I don't know, Rams did not going to the super Bowl.
But there's also a whiff of.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Hey man, he's old, he doesn't want to play in
the preseason. He's gonna be fine. Which side do you
fall on here?
Speaker 13 (35:46):
I think that you can be cautiously optimistic that, okay,
he knows the system inside and out. You know, they're
being extra cautious with him because they know that they
can't afford for him to get hurt in the preseason
and then be banged up throughout the whole year. But again,
if you were in that situation and it's that nerve wracking,
(36:09):
it just takes one hit in Week one to throw
things off the rails. And so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
I thought, when.
Speaker 13 (36:17):
We're entering the offseason the way that they finished last year,
I thought, Okay, the Rams are my pick to win
that division. They might make some noise. I'm not so
confident now. I'm a little bit skittish, just because of
what we've seen. We have heard as of late that
he is returned to practice, he's not having any discomfort
and things, so that's positive. But again he hasn't gotten
hit yet, and so a lot is riding on the
(36:39):
health of that back.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
By the way, they open up against the Houston Texans,
who maybe have a top four defense in the league,
certainly front four, and they also have Philadelphia in Week three,
so you're probably onto something. Mike Stafford's going to get
tested early, all right, Mike Jones, the athletic great stuff man,
Thanks a lot for your time, Mike
Speaker 6 (36:56):
All right, thanks for having me.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks
for listening to The Herd Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To the Herd, It's me Jason McIntyre in for Colin Coward.
He is enjoying the last days of summer before football begins.
It is a beautiful Monday, and I'm joined by Rachel Nichols.
Everybody knows and loves Rachel Nichols, a longtime veteran journalist, host, analyst.
(00:44):
I mean she's done everything, Rachel, how was your weekend?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know, I was in Orlando for the Big Three
Championship game working with CBS, so it was kind of
crazy to see how much that lead has grown. Yeah,
right when it started, it was sort of like a
random off thing to do in the summer, and like
it's legit, man night, it's a full packed arena and
your names, you know, like Michael Beasley, Land, Stevenson, Mare
Chalmers winning the title.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
So you saw that fun. Orlando, very sunny in August,
a little heat there.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It wasn't my favorite location to be in August, but
you know, you go where the basketball is.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Yes, speaking of heat. My week off, I popped over.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
To Vegas, made some bets for the season, the upcoming
football season, and I saw Dave Matthews in concert. Excellent show.
As always, We have an excellent show ahead. We'll do
some gambling a lot of NFL as the week. We
are now ten days away from the beginning of the
NFL season. Oh boy, I am very excited. However, before
I left for vacation, there were a couple of big
(01:42):
NFL stories. Caleb Williams, is he gonna mesh with Ben Johnson?
I return, and it's still a problem. The Dallas Cowboys.
Michael Parsons, what's going on with him? And Jerry It's
still a problem. But bigger than both of those, perhaps combined,
is the shit Doer Sanders developing situation in Cleveland.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Folks.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
There's no way around this. He is the most hyped
fifth round draft pick in the history of football. And
Chadour took the field in the second half for the
Browns and as you can see, here on FS one,
it was a bit of a poop show. In the
final preseason game for Shadoor Sanders, he was an unmitigated disaster.
(02:25):
In the second half, he was three for six for
fourteen yards.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
And it gets worse.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
He was sacked as you could see, running for his
life five times for minus forty one yards. So, if
you're keeping track at home, Rachel and I had more
net passing yards than Shadure Sanders did on Saturday night, folks,
this was bad, but a funny thing happened as the
critiques unfolded Sunday morning. And listen, I'm telling you right now,
(02:55):
every single podcast, TV show, radio show, anybody writing about
the NFL today is leading with Shador Sanders because it's
just so wacky what's going on in Cleveland. So you
guys know, in Hollywood out out here in LA there's
a thing called a nepo baby, Right, your mom or
dad were famous.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So they were in music or entertainment and they.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Get handed something, whether it's an album, a TV role, directing,
and usually they're panned.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Oh come on, nepo baby, they were handed it. They've
got to prove.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It before they get the accolades. The opposite seems to
be happening with Shadoor. Sanders his legion of fans. He's
now a celebrity quarterback. They're just expecting him to make
the roster. I don't know that it's a one hundred
percent lock. I think he's gonna make it. We'll know
by Tuesday at four o'clock. But everybody's just expecting him
(03:48):
to be given everything, and folks, that's just not how
it works in the NFL. And if you listen to
shaduur talk, I mean, after this performance against the Rams,
it was bad and there's some more bad news coming
after it. But here's Shadoor talking about, Oh my gosh,
how upset he was that he was pulled before getting.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
A chance to redeem himself in the two minute draw.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
If I could go back and do anything, I mean,
it's always everything in.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
Life if you had that chance.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
But we don't have the lux for you to travel
back in time. As a kid, I want to go
back and do things differently. So overall, of course, you
know you wish you can, But in the battle, the moment,
in the heat of the battle, you know you want
to be the out. You want to be that dog
you want to be out there in that final two
minute drive, so you know, of course, of course small things,
of course frustrate, but that that's what happens, you know,
(04:39):
when you want a player to be able to change
a franchise.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, smiling on the outside, maybe crying on the inside.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Listen, it was very clear he.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Was not happy to be pulled by Stefanski. So they
put in Snoop Puntley, veteran quarterback twenty seven years old,
second tour of duty with the Browns.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
He leads him right down the field for the game
when fieldbal okay.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And all these fans of Shador, I'm trying to understand
why they love him so much, and he's like, he's
a guy, I get it. His dad is Deon Sanders,
and he's kind of swagged out.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
But he was terrible. Can we be real?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Pro Football Focus had a number that was staggering. Shadeur's
average time to throw was five point one to three
seconds Saturday night. That's an eternity for a quarterback. And
he was still sacked five times in playing backyard football
and running around.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
So yet this weird thing happens, Well, wait.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
A minute, hold on, did you see that the Browns
cut four of the five linemen who were blocking for Shador.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
They cut them on sat on Sunday, so they weren't
giving Shador a fair chance.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Hello, guys, two of those linemen who were cut were
also playing for Dylan Gabriel in the first half, and
Dylan Gabriel absolutely cooked, moved the team up and down
the field nine for eleven, had a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
And oh, by the way, two of those linemen.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Were also blocking for Stup Huntley on that final two
minute drive. And side note, Dylan Gabriel was not sacked.
Stup Huntley was not sacked. So Kevin Stefanski, naturally he's
getting asked, yo, were you trying to sabotage your quarterback?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Which is mind blowing nonsense. Here's Stefanski.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Can you address this sort of persistent narrative that that
you're trying to sabotage Shadoor Sanders, especially after, you know,
after yesterday and not putting him in for the two minute.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
Yeah, obviously I don't.
Speaker 8 (06:35):
I don't concern myself with outside type of things, but uh,
you know, I'm committed to his development just like all
of our rookies. So I We'll continue to focus on
getting our guys better, and that's what we'll stay committed to,
and that's what's important to me.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Things are not good for Stefanski. Member, this is a
guy who at to deal with the Baker Mayfield nonsense.
Baker Mayfield, of course, was trying to play through an
injury to grint.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
It out disaster. Then he had Deshaun Watson. Awful, let's
not just speak of it, folks.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
This is reminiscent of Bronnie James from two summers ago. Okay,
remember it was like, who's the first pick in the
Brownie Draft? I don't know, Bronnie went to the Lakers.
It's all anybody cares about. Did you know Kim Ward
got in a preseason fight? Good luck fighting that online.
You know how Travis Hunter doing trying to be a
generational two way profit?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Oh, we don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It's all about the fifth round or Shaudur, Folks, I
have a solution.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
I'm one of these guys. I like to be solution oriented.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Apparently, you know, when the wife is upset with something,
you're supposed to really listen and take it in, And
I'm instantly like, let's just fast forward to the solution.
I cannot deal with this negativity, so I want to
deal with the solution for Shadeur. And I got shouted
down in the morning meeting when I said, I got it. Guys,
did you see the Raiders? They lost ad O'Connell out
six eight weeks fractured in. If I'm the Brown, get
(08:01):
chaduor out of here, please, I can't deal with this anymore.
Let's just ship him to the Raiders. Jay, nobody's trading
for Shador. Well, wait a sec, Wait a sec. Pete
Carroll did meet with Shadeur at the Combine. Schadeur loves Vegas.
Go look at his Instagram from January February. A big
fan of Vegas called Vegas legendary. It's not really legendary anymore,
(08:22):
but I understand why wouldn't the Raiders say, hey, let's
bring him in to be the backup. He can learn
from Gino Smith, who, by the way, struggled big time
when he was with the Jets right out of college.
Go ask Mark Sanchez about that. Sorry, Mark, listen, I
think Shadur can learn a lot. Nobody's gonna ask for
him to start in Vegas. Want to ship him out
of town. Hey man, we'll take a week and get
(08:42):
let's cut our losses. We don't need these headaches. And
guess who else is following them out the door? The
entire media. Nobody won't care about Cleveland anymore.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Browns.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You got to fix this now, from one problem to another.
Let's go to Dallas and uh Jerry Jones to Michah Parsons.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I think this is like round nine. I think is
that where we are? Folks?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I'm sure you saw the video from the weekend the
Dallas Cowboys played a preseason game. Michael Parsons the only
cowboy on the sideline not in a jersey. Michael Parsons
also laying down on a table while the football was
being played, And of course the media is freaking out.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Who cares what happened on the field because it's Michaeh Parsons. Now,
Michael's got a bad back.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But the Brian Schottenheimer spoke to the media and was like, hey,
he came back pretty clean. You can see where this
is headed. It's about to get ugly in Dallas. You know,
I already think the Cowboys are gonna be a bit
of a dumpster fire. But let's hear Jerry Jones talking
about the situation with his star defender Michaeh Parsons.
Speaker 9 (09:47):
We wanted to send the details to the agent. The agent,
so it was to stick it up. We had our
agreements on term amun, guarantees, everything. We were going to
send it over to the agent, and the agent said,
don't bother because we've got all that to negotiate. A lot,
already negotiated that, already moved off my marm own several areas.
(10:10):
It's the mama daddy deal. You go into mama and
she won't do it, and she's the boss, so boss,
she won't do it. So you run into daddy. Daddy says,
do it, and then you go back in say mama,
Daddy said it was all right.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You lost me there, Jerry. Sounds like a Thanksgiving dinner
story from your grandpa.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I don't want to be too harsh here on Jerry Jones.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
He's a power player in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I get it, But I am one thousand percent siding
with Michael Parsons here a thousand.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
It's not even close.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I got to pick up for the little man in
this discussion with a billionaire.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Jerry, this isn't your first rodeo.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That's not how negotiations work. You can't just do have
a sideal with the player and then it goes to
the agent. You're ah, not gonna have. That's just not
how it works. Now, Jerry's been down this road before.
Deal with DAK was a disaster, strung it out.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
To the last moment.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Deal with CD Lamb did not go well, that was ugly,
But Jerry gets it on some level. We are now
in an attention economy, right, that's what it's all about.
Are you talking about Dallas?
Speaker 6 (11:20):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Is Jerry going on Michael Irvin's podcast. I didn't even
know Mike had a podcast. Maybe that's new. Congratulations Mike,
and Jerry's making the rounds and he's just talk about us.
We're Dallas, Please keep us in the news. And then
as many people suspect, a deal will get down at
the last moment. Chris Jones, you guys remember with the
Chiefs a couple of years ago, or maybe it was
(11:43):
last year, or whenever they played the Lions in Week one.
He missed the game and it was like, Okay, we've
got to get the.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Chris Jones deal done.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But what's different is Chris Jones had made a lot
of money Mikes still on his rookie deal, and Jerry
said something last week about how, hey, we've got him
under contract.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
For three more years. That sounds like he's pretty dug in.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
If you're a Dallas fan and you love Michael Parsons,
I'm gonna go ahead and guess he's the best selling
jersey on the Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
If it's not number one, it's two or three, it's
right there at the top.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
You're starting to alienate your fan base a little over
what a contract really. You were gonna make him the
highest paid and now you're not because the agent is
getting involved. Like I'm just hopeful, folks, that this is
the last last we're gonna hear this and Dallas both
sides come to the table and get a deal done. However,
(12:32):
if you want to go back to this Emmett Smith situation,
which is slightly different because he was a free agent,
but he was at the height of his powers. The
Cowboys were a juggernaut in the mid nineties and Emmett
remember sat out the first two games of the season
waiting for a deal, ended up getting it after they
went zero and two. What happens if the Cowboys get
smashed in week one with know Michael Parsons, does Jerry
(12:53):
capitulate or does he say we've got him.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
For three more years?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Well, Micah, you know, he could bring in an independent
doctor and say, oh my back, I can't go, Hey
can't play, and it gets really ugly. Now it could
already be a lost season for Dallas. But can't we
all just get along? I mean, I'm hopeful, I'm really
hopeful the Cowboys. We need stars like Michael Parsons in
this league. So Rachel, I don't know, we'll see. I'm
(13:19):
really rooting for Mica to get it done. But this
this negotiation looks kind of ugly.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It feels different than some of the other ones you
mentioned right there. Feels like there's more bad blood here.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
And the Cowboys have an advantage.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
They've got two years of franchising they can do after
this year, which is the last year.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
On his contract.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
So Jerry has said we got three years to work
this out. So Mike is not in the power position here,
and if he just continues to sit out and sit out,
it'll cost him money if he can't get a medical excuse,
and even if he can, this is years off his
prime years of his career.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
It's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
He hasn't made and he didn't make that much in
NIL because it was a COVID years of its.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I'm rooting for you, Michael, but it's an uphill climb.
Speaker 10 (14:02):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 11 (14:11):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio App. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
In the world.
Speaker 11 (14:29):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together. I
mean that says something, right, So check us out. We
like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls,
chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive
(14:52):
show on planetar. Be sure to check out Covino and
Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app
from five to seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific.
If you miss any of the live show, just search
Kobe on Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of
course on social media, that's Cavino and Rich.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern, nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks
for listening to The Herd podcast.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Welcome back our number two here on the Herd. A
beautiful Monday morning in Los Angeles. It's a bit of
a heatwave out here, touch eighty over the weekend. Maria
in the South Bay brutal. What I'm gonna do? ZIZI
backa taran for Colin Coward.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Join bye, Rachel Nichols telling us Brett Farm long stories.
Speaker 8 (15:52):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
She's got a lot of good stuff. Cover the NFL
for more than a decade. There's a lot of good
stories buried in there, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Goodness, we got Mike Jones of the Athletic coming up.
This is Aaron Rodgers stuff. I was thinking about it on
the elevator ride. I'm not going to fire it now.
We touched on earlier. We'll we'll get to Aaron Rodgers
here shortly, but I want to start briefly with a
team and a player near and dear to Colin Cowhard,
(16:19):
and that's Caleb Williams of the Bears. Listen, the preseason
has basically all the oxygen has been sucked out by
like four guys. Michael Parsons, Shador Sanders, Caleb Williams definitely
leading the charge. Aaron Rodgers's distant third or fourth. But
this Caleb Williams stuff is just I don't know what
to make of it.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Again.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Two years ago, the talk was, oh, Caleb boy, he
could be the face of the NFL in four years.
We get so freaking excited about these guys. For one
season of college football, some dynamic throws at Caleb Williams,
he was awesome at times for USC. Then he fell
into like the backyard quarterback stuff and now he gets
(17:00):
a good coach and we're expecting greatness. And the last
month has been anything but great from Caleb Williams and
cryptic stuff from Ben Johnson.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
All Right, I'm not going to be out here hammering
Caleb Williams again.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Last week I mentioned Johnny Manzel and all the sicko
fans in Chicago like came after me. Folks listen to
Ben Johnson after their preseason game against the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
You listen to this.
Speaker 12 (17:28):
Offensively, the first two possessions was really sloppy football that
you know has plugged us in and out of camp
so far. It is disappointing to me offensively for sure,
because that's I thought that we'd kind of worked our
way out of that. The first quarter was really any
indication it's not good enough.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
So we got to get better in a hurry.
Speaker 12 (17:51):
But yeah, we got to make sure that we start
faster on offense and on defense.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh boy, now listen, this is his first road as
a head coach. Oh see in Detroit behind walk around
guy Dan Campbell, who we will get you interesting story
on Campbell later.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
In the show.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
But is Ben Johnson coming in a little bit hot?
Here a lot of veiled comments about Caleb, and I
don't want to I don't know Caleb. I've never spoken
to him, but I don't want to presume his psyche.
But there were some things we saw in college. Maybe
it was a college kid where he didn't exactly react
(18:30):
great when things were not going his way. And I'm
gonna play a clip for you here about Ben Johnson
talking about someone. But before I play it, we're running
highlights from their Chiefs game. The very first play was
a fumble with Caleb Williams under center. Now was on
the handoff, but still that's not Chris. That's sloppy, bro,
(18:52):
your second year quarterback, your face of the franchise. Bears
fans are like, always you gotta throw for four thousand yards?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
We get the snap and the Cadence down. Okay, So
here's the quote. Listen to Ben Johnson. I'm not going
to tell you the answer till the end, but think
about who he's talking about here.
Speaker 12 (19:10):
I've really been blown away by his approach from the
spring to the start of camp to where we are now.
He does a tremendous job, knowing what to do, how
to do it, and getting it done.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Okay, he's not talking about Caleb Williams. He's gassing up
his backup quarterback. As Rachel said first hour, the backup
quarterback is always the most popular guy in town. That's
Tyson Beaijen, whose father was like a proclaimed arm wrestler.
And oh, by the way, Beijen just got a new deal. Huh,
what are you giving a backup quarterback?
Speaker 6 (19:45):
Who?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I mean, I'm not of the belief that he's like
one of the elite quarterbackups in the league, but that
had to raise some eyebrows in the Caleb Williams camp.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
No paying this backup. It's my job.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, we get that, but we want some insurance. That's
not a good sign. Now again, this is all preseason.
Maybe the live bullets start firing and Caleb is unbelievable.
But I've got my doubts, folks, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
All right, let's bring in Mike Jones from the Athletic Covers.
The NFL covered the NFL for the last fifteen years
worked at the Washington Post. Someone here knows someone here
read that newspaper growing up, and someone here worked for
that newspaper.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Mike, how are you, man?
Speaker 6 (20:32):
I'll go, well, how are you guys doing this morning?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
You know, I can't complain. It's Monday.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Football's almost here, We're ten days away from the opener.
I do have to ask, though, you know, you do
a lot of podcasts, You're going on a lot of
TV radio shows. Are you surprised by the amount of
questions about Shador Sanders, a fifth round pick who is
fourth on the depth, like he's the topic djur in
the NFL.
Speaker 13 (20:55):
Yeah, I mean I have written a lot about him,
you know, coming out of the draft, and there's been
just a huge buzz about the Sanders, him and also
his brother as well.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
And you know, yeah, I was talking to somebody just this.
Speaker 13 (21:09):
Morning and about all the just the scrutiny that is
surrounding him and the Browns and the handling of him,
and I'm like, you know, when you really think about it,
this is a fifth round pick. Like we don't really
talk about fifth round pick quarterbacks and the other opportunities
are limited, but this isn't a normal fifth round pick.
This is the guy that we thought would go a
lot higher and whose skill set we are led to
(21:31):
believe is, you know, much better than a regular fifth
round pick. So again, the brand, the name, everything has
just made this a bigger deal he is. I'm putting
together my list of twenty five most intriguing players entering
the twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
Five season, and I'm not gonna you.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Know, she's probably on that list, probably the top five.
That was interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You use a word, Mike, You said brand. A rookie
quarterback who was taking the fifth round has a brand.
I'm trying to think Josh Allen when he came into
the league from Wyoming, what was his brand?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Did Patrick Mahomes have one? Out of Texas Tech? Like
the fact that he has.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
A brand like, great for him, But I don't know
that that's actually what you want your quarterback having coming
out of college, is it?
Speaker 6 (22:16):
Well?
Speaker 13 (22:17):
I mean, this is a new even, you know, a
new age, even from when Josh Allen and when Patrick
Mahomes were coming out.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
Yeah, they didn't have brands.
Speaker 13 (22:28):
You know, there wasn't the whole There was social media,
but not the level that it is now where guys
have YouTube channels and nil deals and all kinds of
things like that. You know, this guy's got a Hall
of Fame football coach father, you know, and so football
player turned football coach as a father.
Speaker 6 (22:45):
So yeah, there's a whole lot more with here. But
I think that the.
Speaker 13 (22:48):
Thing that is most important is does he have a
work ethic?
Speaker 6 (22:51):
You know, yeah, he's got a brand. Does have a
work ethics?
Speaker 13 (22:53):
Does he have you know, teachability and all those things,
the athleticism, everything it takes to be an NFL player.
As long as you have that, then teams don't care
if you have a brand. But you know, you're talking
about Caleb Williams. He certainly, you know, had kind of
a brand coming out.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
And you know, it's not always about that stuff.
Speaker 13 (23:12):
It's what you can do on this higher level than
what you were in college.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
You're you're right, it is kind of a new era.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I think Johnny Manzel probably had a brand, is that
fair to say, coming out of A and M.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I don't know if it was a good brand, right,
but it was a brand.
Speaker 13 (23:26):
There was, Yeah, there was there was a kind of
a cult following type of thing about him. You know,
I don't think it's quite the whole. You know, is
the same level as Chadors.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
But yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Like that Trevor Lawrence kind of a he's in is
he a bust or not?
Speaker 6 (23:44):
Kind?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
But I don't think he has a brand. He just
hasn't been a good quarterback. I mean, he's not a
jeopardy of getting bench. But let's spin it forward a
do you think the Browns keep Shador? Do you think
they Is it possible? I floated the idea of trading
him to the Raiders, just getting him off the roster,
getting whatever. You can't just take a seventh round pick
to take the loss. I don't know what's your guests
(24:06):
for Shador Week one?
Speaker 6 (24:08):
No, I mean I think that he's on the team.
Speaker 13 (24:10):
I'm not saying that he's going to be active in
Week one, but I think that he's going to be
on this team. There are still people in that building
who really believe in his potential. And look, if he's
not ready, it's okay. They have a really tough stretch
of their season here to open the schedule. You would
be much more comfortable with Joe Flacco going up against
(24:31):
some of those defenses, Like you know, you know, in
Detroit and Green Bay and Baltimore. Why throw a rookie
to the wolves like that. But there's also questions about
the handling of Shador and the developmental plan and if
the Browns are all on the same page on how
to get him ready, you know, and so there are
questions about that. But I think that, yeah, he's going
(24:51):
to be on this team. We'll see what the progress is.
I wouldn't be surprised, you know, late this year we
wind up seeing him in the field. It wouldn't surprise
me at all.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Let's go to Aaron Rodgers briefly, hopefully only briefly. He
kind of was talking on a podcast with DK Metcalf
and DK Metcalf flow.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
To, hey, maybe maybe you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Staying beyond this year, you know, maybe we'll run it back,
and Aaron Rodgers said, maybe, Mike.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
What are we to take of Aaron Rodgers at this point?
I mean, we.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Haven't even got to the him versus Arthur Smith stuff
that's gonna bubble up inevitably, But like, where are you
on Rogers in Pittsburgh?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Are they? Is he going to make your most intriguing list?
Speaker 6 (25:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (25:36):
Look, he everything is great, right, now, I was up
there for training Gimp in Latrow a couple of weeks ago,
and you know, he's talking about loving like remembering how
to play video games and playing cards with the guys
and connecting and being in this, you know, back with
the Stables story franchise, kind of liking Green Bay with
the head.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Coach he really respects and all that stuff.
Speaker 13 (25:58):
But there are no bullets are flying yet, and so
we'll see what happens when that offensive line struggles to
protect him and the run game is just kind of
man and you know, and this defense provide the backing
it needs. It seems like they've added pieces like Jalen
Ramsey and Sleigh, and they retained TJ.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Watt and extended him. But still there are a lot of.
Speaker 13 (26:18):
Questions here, and so I wrote about that, like, hey,
the field, good vibes are good, But that's going to
take way more than that, and it's more to do
what's around Aaron Rodgers that's going to say how successful
this is.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
And just like you said, we saw it in New York.
Speaker 13 (26:34):
Everything was great and then when things started getting hairy,
there was finger pointing and Rogers is not afraid to
pull back the curtain and call out dysfunction, and so
we could see that happen in Pittsburgh. Yes, we think
of them as really stable under Mike Tomlin, you know,
nose losing seasons. But if this thing is not playing
out really well, we could see a frustrated Rogers definitely
(26:55):
air some dirty laundry.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Oh, can't wait for that one. Let's go to Washington.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Terry mcclurey and just got a new deal today, three years,
ninety six mil. Happy for Washington. Rachel has some concerns
about the defense. I am a little skeptical.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I grew up in the DC area.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
A lot of my buddies are like doing that again.
Run to the NFC championship would be difficult. You wrote
a piece on Daniels last month that I thought was
a good one.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I'm curious your thoughts on Washington.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Can they even come close to duplicating last year's heroics.
Speaker 13 (27:27):
That's gonna be tough. You know, they came out of nowhere.
Now they're on everybody's radar. They can't sneak up on anybody.
I think the moves that they've made in the offseason,
Adam Peters and Dan Quinn as they put this thing together.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
Their roster is.
Speaker 13 (27:40):
Definitely better as a whole, but that doesn't mean that
they're going to have a better season. To have a
better season, they basically have to get back to the
NFC Championship and get to the super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
That's the only way you top that.
Speaker 13 (27:52):
Now you have expectations, you know, So I still think
they can win ten games, but that doesn't mean that
they're going to wind up making a deeper playoff run.
I still think that Philadelphia winds up winning that division.
They just are so strong top to bottom. But it's
going to be interesting for Washington how they continue to evolve.
What do they do to stay a step ahead of
the defenses Kingsbury and Jade Daniels. I think they have
(28:14):
the potential to have a really good season again, but again,
that's a tougher season, tougher schedule of games, tougher competition,
So it'll be hard to surpass last year.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, specifically that defense, like Jayden Daniels, just kept bailing
them out last year. I think they had five or
six wins in.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
The final minute or what have you.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I'm looking at that front seven and it's like that
is toothless, like they got old dudes and kind of
not to be disrespectful, just non factors. I mean, Marshawn
Lottimore hasn't been healthy in half a decade, So I
just don't know how they stop anybody. And they're in
a division where the Eagles offense is a juggernaut. Brian
Dable is a sharp guy, Milik neighbors are very good
(28:53):
and let's be real, Dallas has.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Dak Pickens and and Ceedee Lamb like that alone is
going to give Washington problem.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So I don't is there a world where they slip
back to third in the division.
Speaker 13 (29:05):
I do think that day in Dallas will be going
back and forth head to head for that number two
spot right there.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
It's possible.
Speaker 13 (29:13):
I agree with you on your concerns about the defense
they brought in von Miller, but I don't know that
he's really.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
The answer as far as a pass rusher.
Speaker 13 (29:21):
You know it's going to take a lot of creativity
from Dan Quinn. Once again. Bobby Wagner is a guy
who sets a good tone, but you know he's not
a spring chicken and that secondary. You know, there are
a lot of questions, and I don't know they've drafted
some young guys and we'll see how they developed. But
I don't know that they were really able to take
this defense to another level. But I guess they're hoping
(29:43):
with Terry mccluurin, Deebo, Samuel, Jayden Daniels, that maybe their
offense can put up more.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
Points and so they won't have to rely on those
closet finishes. But that's a lot of ifs.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, let me ask you, Mike, I missed this news
last week. All I was out.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
The Colts decided Daniel Jones is our guy. You know,
k surprising, but Richardson did not have an inspiring preseason.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
He's always hurt, still not accurate.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So let's give Daniel Jones props for getting out of Minnesota,
right he knew he wasn't gonna play with McCarthy. There
gets to a spot where he can play. But what
does this do for Richardson? Like this is kind of
I mean, they drafted him to be the guy and
now it's like you can't even beat out Daniel Jones, who,
let's be real, is not a good quarterback.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Is Richardson's time up in Indy or what are you hearing?
Speaker 6 (30:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (30:28):
No, I think that's very concerning because look, obviously he
was a guy that you knew, yes physically a specimen,
had some great college tape, doesn't have a whole lot
of college tape.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
I don't think he's actually had, you know.
Speaker 13 (30:41):
I think it was a stat that I heard last
week that he doesn't even have two thousand plays yet
under his belt between college and the NFL.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
So it takes a while to develop.
Speaker 13 (30:52):
And so you're hoping that you do the things, all
the things, carry yourself like a pro, and continue to develop.
Speaker 6 (30:58):
But from the sounds of things, he was doing all
of those things.
Speaker 13 (31:01):
That's the reason why last year you got pinched, because
they were hoping to get through to him and kind
of get his attention, and they went to Joe Flacco
for a little bit here and.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Again, the durability is an issue.
Speaker 13 (31:10):
You know, the coaches say the best ability is availability,
and if you're not able to stay on the field
not carrying yourself like a pro, then you're going to
go to a guy. And so it's going to be
hard to go back to him unless he totally, you know,
kind of you know, gets in line and is doing
all the work and growing through practice, reps, but that's
not the same as game speed.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
It's going to be tough.
Speaker 13 (31:31):
Yes, they're going to Daniel Jones. They're going to have
to run the ball a whole lot. I think that's
the blueprint that the Giant showed a couple of years
ago when they made it to the playoffs. Squeaked in there.
They relied on Saquon Barkley a whole lot. They didn't
put a whole lot one to Daniel Jones's shoulders. I
think Andy will run, lean on the run game, lean
on their defense, and hope that Danielones can just take
care of the football because you know, you're not going
(31:52):
to get a whole lot of touchdown passes out of him,
because that was definitely not something that he was known
for in New York.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, I got to ask Mike listen, do you answer that.
I'm just trying to think back. We've seen a lot
of these quarterbacks who go top five, top ten. It
seems like more than normal in the last I don't know, five, six,
seven years, and they seem to flop in their first spot,
but they can thrive afterward. Baker Mayfield comes to mind,
(32:19):
Sam Darnold comes to mind, Anthony Richardson, there's others. I'm
just wondering, do you think what do you think this
is about? Is it guys are getting overdrafted. Is it
we still don't know how to identify quarterbacks?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
What's the issue?
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Well, I think that there's this pressure.
Speaker 13 (32:37):
Okay, we got this guy we need. You know, lots
of times they're drafted to bad franchises, right, the guys
like Patrick Mahomes, who the Chiefs jumped up to trade
and draft him and then he sat behind Alex.
Speaker 6 (32:48):
Smith for a year and was able to develop a lot.
Speaker 13 (32:50):
Of these are bad franchises, except for you know, San Francisco.
They had Trey Lance, but it wasn't a real developmental
plan for a lot of these guys, and they're playing
sooner than what they should.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
They should.
Speaker 13 (33:02):
Okay, if you're going to spend that high pick on
a guy, okay, but have a veter in place, let
him start. Let this guy learn, Especially some of these
guys like Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, who don't have a
whole lot of college experience. The guys who are three
and four year starters. It doesn't happen a whole lot anymore.
But those guys are better off coming into the NFL.
Like Jade Daniels had a lot of experience in college
(33:24):
and that's why he was able to make a better transition.
But so many of these young guys, they're playing sooner
than they need to, and then the patience is not
there because coaches don't have a whole lot of time
to save their jobs before owners getting patient and you know,
heads start to roll, and so it's just a whole
mess in the way that they're drafting, developing or not developing,
(33:45):
and playing guys sooner than they should.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Yeah, I'm looking at the list. It's not just a
COVID thing either.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
There were you know, Bryce Young by the way, this
could be his last shot, but there's been other guys
and I'm just you know, you see names like Josh Rosen,
Mitch Trubisky. No, given that even Caleb Williams is going
to work out in Chicago, I don't want to be
too negative. I know people of Jason. Come on, he's
got to be fine, is he, Mike? I can't say
for sure, can you No, we can't say for sure.
Speaker 13 (34:14):
But the thing is you have to remember he was
in such an awful situation last year. Then you have
like three offensive coordinators throughout the course of the year.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
And so if you're learning and then everything.
Speaker 13 (34:25):
Keeps getting changed, and now you have a new coach,
you have going to learn a new language, a new
way of doing things.
Speaker 6 (34:31):
I think that this is going to be a year
of growing pains for him.
Speaker 13 (34:34):
But if he can get on the same page and
understand and take all the tutoring that the math the
math scientists that Ben Johnson is, then I think it's
possible that we could see him still be Okay, it's
way too.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Early to pull the plug or to panic, but you have.
Speaker 13 (34:51):
To understand that again, he's having to relearn a lot
of things.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
Last year we saw.
Speaker 13 (34:56):
Him get sacked more than any other quarterback in the league.
Did upgrade their offensive line, but lots of times he
was trying to make something out of nothing. Think he
could do what he did in USC or he's running around,
you know, across the field and back the other way.
You know, you've got defensive linemen that are faster than
that and are going to plank you into the ground. Now,
so you got to learn to get rid of the
ball quickly and make good decisions. And that's what he's
(35:17):
going to have to understand if he wants to make
it in the NFL, and I think it's possible.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
It's just gonna take some time. All right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
We could wrap up, you know, for fantasy purposes. Some
of us may have three or four drafts this week.
Matthew Stafford, what are you hearing on the Rams quarterback?
Because there's a lot of people out here in the
dark thinking like, oh, it's gonna be bad.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I don't know, Rams did not going to the super Bowl.
But there's also a whiff of.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Hey man, he's old, he doesn't want to play in
the preseason. He's gonna be fine. Which side do you
fall on here?
Speaker 13 (35:46):
I think that you can be cautiously optimistic that, okay,
he knows the system inside and out. You know, they're
being extra cautious with him because they know that they
can't afford for him to get hurt in the preseason
and then be banged up throughout the whole year. But again,
if you were in that situation and it's that nerve wracking,
(36:09):
it just takes one hit in Week one to throw
things off the rails. And so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
I thought, when.
Speaker 13 (36:17):
We're entering the offseason the way that they finished last year,
I thought, Okay, the Rams are my pick to win
that division. They might make some noise. I'm not so
confident now. I'm a little bit skittish, just because of
what we've seen. We have heard as of late that
he is returned to practice, he's not having any discomfort
and things, so that's positive. But again he hasn't gotten
hit yet, and so a lot is riding on the
(36:39):
health of that back.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
By the way, they open up against the Houston Texans,
who maybe have a top four defense in the league,
certainly front four, and they also have Philadelphia in Week three,
so you're probably onto something. Mike Stafford's going to get
tested early, all right, Mike Jones, the athletic great stuff man,
Thanks a lot for your time, Mike
Speaker 6 (36:56):
All right, thanks for having me.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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