October 16, 2025 • 37 mins
Colin Cowherd dives into Aaron Rodgers and the Pittsburgh Steelers hot start. Colin explains why Steelers fans shouldn't get too excited just yet, despite the early season success. Plus, he shares his thoughts on Bo Nix and why the Broncos QB is being overcriticized by the media
Greg Cosell from NFL Films joins the show to break down the Kansas City Chiefs resurgence led by Patrick Mahomes and what’s behind their recent dominance. Colin and Greg also dissect the struggles of the Buffalo Bills and Josh Allen, uncovering the reasons why Buffalo’s high expectations are falling short this season
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Okay, here we go on a Thursday. We are ready
to roll Steeler Cincinnati tonight, Greg co Sell in one hour.
It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening, Thanks for making us part of your day. Look, Jmac, Tonight,
(00:49):
I try to stay away from games that have backup
quarterbacks against old quarterbacks, but tonight the Steelers are at Cincinnati,
and I'm gonna ask for something. It's not a big thing,
but for anybody that is a Steeler fan, let's start
our show with this. All you Yingers out there, I'm
just asking It's a small favor. I don't think you're
(01:11):
capable of a big favor with your Steelers. You're very emotional.
I'm asking a small favor. At about eleven thirty pm,
two night Eastern. You're probably going to be five and one,
and I just want you to add a little perspective
realizing you have beaten Justin Fields, Dylan Gabriel, Carson Wentz,
(01:34):
and a forty year old Joe Flacco by eleven thirty
pm tonight, I'm just asking for a little perspective. Let's
put it this way. Your first five games all green
lights driving to work. That's you know, we all get that.
We all get that about once a month. You're like, man,
I got all green lights. Work was an eleven minute drive,
(01:56):
not a thirty minute drive. Aaron Rodgers is not throwing
the ball down the field. The offense is ranked very low,
but because of the big body types, they don't have
to take risks. And I have said, I think it's
very smart football by Aaron Rodgers. But after tonight, go
grab your pocket. Schedule it sort of changes. Next up
(02:19):
the Packers, then maybe the best offensive line in football,
a team that is humming Indianapolis. Then at Justin Herbert.
By the way, Joe alt will be back, Hampton will
be back, Khalil Mack will be back at Chicago, Buffalo
at Baltimore with Lamar at Detroit Baltimore again. And this
(02:42):
is precisely what I predicted you did this last year.
I said, last year, you're gonna be nine to eight,
ten wins, and but it'll be rough down the stretch.
And it was this year I said you're gonna win
eight or nine games. You're gonna be eight to nine
and nine and eight. It's gonna start hot. This is
a Mike Tomlin trend going back to like twenty twelve,
that he's very emotional, very raw, raw, very inspiring, and
(03:04):
that stuff wears off by about week eleven, and it
comes down to scheme health. Quarterback play, of which the
Steelers since Big Ben got Old hasn't been very good.
Last year you were ten and three, and then the
rest of the way, including a playoff game, you were
zero and five. So you have played one good team
(03:25):
Pittsburgh Seattle. They averaged six point two yards of play.
Sam Darnold didn't even play well, and they blew you
out in Pittsburgh. So right now your offense is ranked
twenty ninth, your defense is ranked twenty fifth. Five and
one is what we call football inflation. At eleven thirty
PM tonight, Mike Tomlin. Teams go back a few years,
(03:47):
start hot, motivation, stuff wears off, pomp bombs, put in
the ground. Best teams win late. So you're gonna beat
Joe Flaccowen Cincinnati. You're gonna beat him. But Robert May's
podcast writer for the Athletics, said, if you look at
the data, if you look at the analytics, Aaron playing
safe works. Now, it probably doesn't work against Josh Allen,
(04:12):
Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love, Justin Herbert, Here's Robert.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
He can still pin the ball on guys.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
But ultimately, when you're playing against the Broncos defense on
divisional weekend, you're going to need to read stuff out
and access different parts of the play than whatever your
first immediate one on one opportunity is. And I still
don't think we've seen him do that enough.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
And I think now he's been able to exist in
this box and it's been okay. If you push him
outside of that, I think that's where things get a
little bit dicey. Think you can feel him not wanting
to sit in the pocket very long and read stuff
out a little bit deeper into these plays.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We saw that with an older Brady, We saw that
with an older Eli. We're seeing it with an older Aaron.
You will be five and one tonight. And I like
what Pittsburgh's doing right now because, as I've said multi times,
this is how Aaron should be playing now. Big body
type advantages, the defense makes plays, and a good solid defense.
(05:09):
It's not great little old in spots. Takes advantage of
flacos and Wentz's and Dylan Gabriels and young quarterbacks. That's
what it does, all right. So this week USC plays
Notre Dame and I was reading an article today. Is
the annual Notre Dame USC football game that big of
a deal anymore? Well, it's a big deal. It's not
(05:30):
Ohio State and Michigan. I don't know if it's Auburn
Alabama certainly close. Is at Oklahoma Texas. It's one of
those traditional rivalries. But tradition, let's be honest. You can
pay high school players now the portal. You can get
sixty new players a year. The college football playoff. Traditionalists
have had a really rough last three years, and they
all lectured us and told us college football was in
(05:53):
big trouble. No, it's not ratings of it up back
to back years. It's great. So ask yourself about USC
Notre Dame. Is it convenient?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Is it necessary? Well not for USC. This relationship has
become uneven and when they do, it's time to renegotiate.
Consider USC, Trump and Notre Dame, NATO. We need to
sit down and talk because Notre Dame needs this game
because they're not one hundred percent in the conference. They
(06:24):
lost to an M and Miami. They desperately need to
beat USC and then USC to win the rest of
their games. They need USC now. The Indiana Hoosiers are
a powerhouse. Apparently USC has nine games a year. They
will include Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State and
(06:46):
now Indiana and Nebraska. Looks okay, and your rival UCLA
that beat Penn State and Washington and Oregon. This game
is not convenient and it's not necessary right for USC.
This this game is just one more roadblock to the playoff.
For Notre Dame, it's a necessity to potentially get to
the playoff. So if I was Jen Cohen, I would say, Okay,
(07:11):
we'll do it every other year and the game has
to be played in September. We have no interest going
playing in a blizzard, But what I thought, what, Okay,
join the Big Ten Conference, then we'll play USC does
not need Notre Dame. This is uneven. Notre Dame desperately
needs USC. Go look at Notre Dame schedule. It's a
(07:33):
lot of Navy, North Carolina State from a bad conference,
the ACC. There's just a lot of games here, Stanford, Boiseastate,
Boston College. Notre Dame needs SC. And then if you
look at USC, even with losing to Illinois, but they
beat Michigan, what if they beat Nebraska, what if they
(07:54):
beat Notre Dame or Oregon, they don't need Notre Dame.
So I would sit down, this is now an uneven relationship,
and I would say, I'm willing to play you every
other year, but it's going to be in the first
four to five weeks of the season. That's what negotiations
are all about. This is not convenient to USC anymore.
It is simply a hurdle, especially if Marcus Freeman stays
(08:17):
there for the next eight years, a top five college coach.
What am I getting out of it? And all you
traditionalists that get upset. You also lectured us that the
NIL was going to ruin the sport, didn't you lectured
us that the portal would ruin the sport. Hasn't that
the College Football Playoff would just kill rivalries? No, it's
going to create new ones. Michigan Notre Dame used to
(08:40):
play every year. They don't. Michigan. Sin's won a national
championship and Notre Dame is once again in power. So
I think Notre Dame wins this weekend, and I think
Marcus Freeman's got it rolling and they're a better team
than they were a month ago. So is USC perhaps,
but this game, with call Weather, better quarterback, potentially better
(09:03):
consistent run game, is going to be a Notre Dame weekend.
But I see this all the time. I see this
with AI. Everybody's saying, oh, it's going to ruin the economy.
I'll argue it's going to expand it. Every time we've
had a new energy or something, you know, it could
be fire, it could be the internet, it could be AI.
(09:23):
What happens the economy grows. Everybody's terrified of AI. I'm taking.
I'm like, yeah, it'll display some lower level you know,
the lower level jobs, absolutely, but it will expand the economy.
And my take on the College Football Playoff and the
nil on the portal. It'll expand college football. It'll feel bigger,
(09:45):
more big games, and so USC does not have a
big game shortage. There will be years. USC will look
at their schedule. You and I will look at the
schedule and go, we got to play Ohio State, at
Penn State, at Indiana at Oregon. Yeah, we get Washington
and Michigan at home. There'll be years us He's like, yikes,
(10:10):
so all the traditionalists freak out. Baseball traditionalists pitchclock, bigger bases,
baseball's ratings up, Baseball attendants up, baseball speed up. Traditionalist
college football is going to ruin it. You can keep
wearing that letterman jacket and telling me UFC Notre Dames
a must. The world's changed. This is twenty twenty five.
(10:33):
Now I have to face my biggest rivals in the
PAC twelve Washington, Oregon, UCLA and Michigan, Penn State, Ohio
State and now Indiana's good. Welcome on a Thursday, Greg
Cosel one hour from now. Get a lot of feedback,
get a lot of pushback on that. But you kept
(10:53):
telling me and I al portal was going to ruin
the sport. No, it hasn't. The great teams are still great.
Ohio State's still roles, Georgia and Bammer are still excellent.
Notre Dame's really good. Texas has all sorts of talent,
so does USC Oregon. All the good teams are still good.
And by the way, since the NIL was created, we
(11:14):
have a new power potentially Indiana. I thought the NIA
and the transfer portal we're gonna hurt the little guy.
We got a little guy now from a basketball school
that just went to Austin and pushed the Ducks all
over the field. So a little guy has emerged potentially
as a legitimate big time program. Nebraska's been dead for
twenty five years. Now they got a winning record. They're
(11:37):
on a roll. So the NIL and the transfer portal
have not hurt the little guy at all. Oh by
the way, Texas Tech is now buying for the playoff.
Indiana got into the playoff, So I don't buy all
this traditionalist nonsense, all this fear mongering at all. College
football has never been better, and it could survive with
Notre Dame USC playing every other year in Sepeptember j MAC.
(12:02):
That will unfortunately be met by the traditionalists who just
don't like any By the way, the NBA Luca goes
Dallas to Los Angeles, it was going to ruin the Mavericks.
Mavericks are still good. They got Cooper Flagg, they got
the best front line in the league. They're gigantic, they'll
be a playoff team, they'll be viable. Everybody's telling me
(12:23):
stuff's going to end sports and enfranchise. How about baseball?
Dodgers have too much money, Mariners have a lead in
the American League, or yeah, in the Mimeric League Championship series,
the Milwaukee Brewers are playing the Dodgers. All I heard
about is oh this is oh my god, all is
the money in baseball? Yeah, the Dodgers are great. The
Yankees are out. The Mets didn't make the playoffs, so
(12:43):
I think we're fine.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Well, speaking of money, all it takes is somebody to
pony up and say, hey, USC and Notre Dame, we
will pay you a lot of money to play every year.
And you know these programs, they would love to take
money hand over fist for a meeting every year, right, Colin,
would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Numbers?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
If somebody came.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Streaming or network said hey, we'll give you ten million
dollars to play a football game one off every year,
wouldn't they?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Don't you think they would do it?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well? Listen, college football was an eight billion dollar annual
business with no president, no CEO. Think about that. The
reason UFC took over boxing is Dana White. They had
a central figure, a centralized CEO president to make call.
Boxing just had greedy promoters and so college football for years.
(13:33):
It had its opportunity to get it back together. But
the Big Ten would play nine conference games, the SEC
would play eight conference games. Some teams powerhouses are playing
Youngstown State and Citadel. Other teams are going out of conference,
playing Auburn and legitimate Oregon. So it was an uneven,
poorly run sport. So es Fan and Fox came in
(13:53):
and said, we're going to kind of run this thing.
We're going to make some changes. All of them are worked.
The playoff's going to be bigger and big every year.
Now you have venture capital firms in New York and
San Francisco and Los Angeles that want to invest in programs.
The Big ten may take two billion dollars from like
a VC. So I mean I I just I constantly
(14:14):
hear I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but
there's so much fear mongering in politics and sports. It's
all gonna be okay. USC Notre Dame play every other
year in September. It's fine. There's new rivalries every year.
Now with this the scheduling, the Big ten, the PAC twelve,
the PAC twelve disappeared, and yet the ratings are up.
It was I went an entire conference left, and the
(14:38):
sports growing and great.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
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Speaker 3 (14:49):
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Speaker 7 (14:50):
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Listen to the Paulin and Tony Fusco Show on the
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Speaker 2 (15:15):
He's still moving.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
You are now entering the no bull zone sponsored by Credible,
Great rates and none of the bull listen. I said,
when I thought Caleb Williams was going to be really,
really good and Justin Fields probably never will be. I
when I first moved to Chicago, people would say, oh,
Justin Fields, well that ship has sailed three teams not working.
Caleb Williams has apparent, I think to some degree, has
(15:41):
turned the corner. He's not there yet. He still misses
on accuracy. But young quarterbacks are tough to judge. Sometimes
they shock you how good they are right out of
the gate Jaden Daniels, and then some shock you how
good they get quickly in you know, year two, Drake May.
Some are a work in progress, Caleb Williams, Michael Pennix,
and some say bow Nicks. I don't think bow Nicks
(16:02):
is a work in progress. I think he's a franchise
quarterback that I wish would run more. He did last year,
he stopped doing it this year. He's highly effective, and
I think he should run more. But I saw a
story today about bow Knicks. How to make bow Nicks better?
Read the headline well, he's twenty three NFL starts in
his completion percentage is sixty six percent, good enough to
(16:23):
get you to a Super Bowl. Forty three total touchdowns,
seventeen turnovers pretty good beginning of year two. Passer ratings low,
nineties ninety two. I'd rather have it at ninety seven
ninety eight. But he's fourteen and nine in a division
with Spags, Jesse Minter and now Pete Carroll, Max Crosby,
(16:44):
Chris Jones, Khalil Mack, great, great edge rushers, great top
of the league defensive guys, Jesse Minner and Spags. He's
fourteen and nine. And my takeaway is Michael Pennix and
Caleb Williams are work in progress. Drake and Jaden and
bow Knicks they work. So I will tell you what
(17:05):
I've noticed with bow Knicks, because I think Denver's the
third best team in the league. He's got to get
better throwing the ball down the field. If you look
at all the data from the line of scrimmage to
thirteen yards fifteen yards actually or fewer right slot fifteen
yards in passer ratings ninety five, completes seventy two percent
of his throws twenty seven touchdown seven picks downfield sixteen eighteen,
(17:30):
twenty three chunk plays. He has struggled. I don't think
he's ever going to be a great deep ball thrower.
But when Brady had Randy Moss, that was the time.
He didn't win a Super Bowl. And Patrick Mahomes with
a huge arm, is actually better and winning more Super
Bowls since Tyreek Hill was traded. Jalen Hurts just won
(17:50):
a Super Bowl and he struggles getting it to his
deep guy aj Brown so bow Knicks doesn't take sacks,
seize the field. He's very accurate. He needs to be
better down the field. Courtland, Sutton, Mims, Franklin, those guys
can get down the field and beat coverage and separate.
But I think it's established. I think Drake made Jaden
(18:12):
Daniels and Bowl. These are franchise quarterbacks. Caleb and Pennix.
I think both are gonna work. One's a great athlete,
one's got a beautiful throwing release. I think those eventually work.
The other thing you could argue beyond running, he stopped
running this year, and I've argued for years. When you're
a young quarterback for the Verse two and a half years.
Run to move the chains as you're figuring out defenses, right.
(18:36):
Patrick Mahomes admitted year three lights went on, play slowed down.
Russell Wilson said that years ago Brady has said that
get into year three, everything slows down. It's the beginning
of year two. Bow Nicks ran a lot last year.
This year he's trying to master the pocket. Don't it'll come,
run more and speed it up, speed the tempo up.
(18:56):
Bow Nicks talked about that.
Speaker 9 (18:59):
I just like it because it gets the defense off balance.
They you know, don't have many calls that they can
get to when you go quick. And we just played
well from you know, quick game and getting to the ball,
seeing what they're in, just finding answers and going I
think it. It's just tough on defense is always has been.
I think that's the biggest reason is because it limits
what a defense can do.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
People kept telling me, justin fields was it last year
against Mahomes and Reeds Spags, Herbert Khalil Mack, there was
a Bosa, there was justin Herbert. Bonicks made the playoffs
and they're still carrying dead cap money. Bonix is a
franchise quarterback, may never throw a great deep ball. Other
(19:42):
than that, he's good.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
One more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
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Speaker 1 (19:53):
Greg Cosel fifteen minutes. We all get smarter. So many
questions to ask. So I think in the last three weeks,
I think Mahomes has been so good. And I was
saying it this week, only the Chiefs can take Hollywood
Brown and Juju's ms Schuster, and all of a sudden
(20:15):
you're like, oh, these are dynamic players. Now were these good?
I've always held he's a bit more gadget guy than
he is volume guy. But when you look at the Chiefs,
is it Mahomes's magic or is it scheme? Because Hollywood
Brown could go on thirty teams and not make an impact,
and yet it's a couple of touchdowns on the Chiefs.
Is it schemer Mahomes?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, Colin, it's funny.
Speaker 8 (20:38):
I thought last week in particular, was very scheme based.
I thought they had a really good sense and it comes,
of course from Andy Reid and Matt Nagi, a very
good sense of what they were getting from the Lions defense.
And now don't forget the Lions were playing with backup
corners on the outside. They were playing with a number
of other backups as well, and I thought they had
(20:58):
a really good feel for what they were going to
get in certain situations. And I thought it was really
scheme based. It wasn't a Mahomes game in the sense that, Wow,
he did some special things.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I thought he executed at.
Speaker 8 (21:12):
A really high level a really well designed offense. I
thought the best individual play he made Colin was on
the first possession when he hit Smith Schuster on the
crosser that was not the primary receiver, that was the
backside crosser. And that was just one of those special
Mahomes plays because Kirby Joseph, who's very good as an
(21:32):
interceptor reads quarterbacks well, he was waiting right there and
I think he thought he was going to make a
play on the ball. But Mahomes, with the arm strength
and just his understanding of spatial awareness, which is as
good as anyone we've seen, he just made a big
time throw. But that game was much more to me
watching the tape scheme based than wow, look at these
great individual plays.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So let's talk about the team that was seen as
the nemesis, the Arts nemesis, the primary rival of the
Chiefs Buffalo. So my take is what you want to
do in the NFL is draft a quarterback, get the
right quarterback, and then make him comfortable weapons and protection.
Drake London, sure, Jeohn Robinson, Michael Pennix. We can just
(22:16):
say Buffalo's defense isn't very good. But I thought Pennix
and London and Robinson, I thought that was a pretty potent,
especially indoors, that was a pretty potent offense, was it not?
Speaker 8 (22:29):
It is And the way they use b Jhon Robinson
is really good. I mean b John Robinson in my view,
is the best running back in the league.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
But he's more than just a running back. They line
him up all over. This is a pistol offense.
Speaker 8 (22:42):
By the way they run pistol a very very high
percentage and the number one run that they have. They're
an outside zone run team, which you run out of pistol.
Seventy one of Bjhon's carries this year of his eighty
three carries have come out of pistol, and it's outside
zone for the most part. But they really use him
in multiple ways. The Bills don't really have a strong
(23:04):
pass rush. They've tried to upgrade it, but it's still
not good enough with a four man D line. And offensively,
Colin to me, when you have Josh Allen, I think
that your pass game needs.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
To be a little more expansive.
Speaker 8 (23:16):
I know they don't have great receivers, but you know
what to me to construct a pass game tactically and
conceptually and the way you attack zone. I think they
need to do more things. You know, Josh Allener quarterback.
He can make throws. I almost feel like they're a
running football team and if the game demands, then it's
(23:37):
time for Josh.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
But I don't think you can play like that every week.
Speaker 8 (23:40):
I think you need more consistency with what you do
conceptually in your pass game.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, no, I said it this week. Is that I
feel like Sean Payton squeezes every ounce out of bow Nicks.
Ben Johnson has clearly gotten moret a Caleb than the
previous coach. Andy Reid does it with agit players and backups.
I rarely watch Buffalo and go wow, that's creative. Offensively,
(24:07):
I don't. I think they have some players I like,
but I don't see that speaking of Caleb. I didn't
think he was great on Monday night. I think there
are two things I worried about. I agree with you, Yeah,
I watched him out of usc The two criticisms that
were valid consistent accuracy and playing with instructure. I think
(24:28):
he's gotten better within structure. I think his accuracy is
still a major problem. How would you grade him on
Monday night's win?
Speaker 8 (24:39):
I would say that both of the things you said
are very valid. I think even some completions that he
hasn't been as sharp with his ball location as he
needs to be. That's an area he can must continue
to improve. He throws a beautiful ball, He's an easy thrower.
I think Ben Johnson has really designed some really good
things for him. That touchdown to Swift on third down
(25:01):
was just a beautifully conceived and well designed play that
presented just an easy routine throw and then of course.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Swift with the run after catch.
Speaker 8 (25:10):
But I think the ball location, which is the better
term now than just accuracy, the ball location has to
get more and more consistent because there's a lot of
inbreaking throws in the Ben Johnson offense, and you want
to hit receivers on inbreaking throws where they have run
after catch, and he needs to get better at that
because that's foundationally much of what that offense is in
(25:32):
the pass game.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So you and I have both always loved Justin Herbert
and that Chargers Colts game is going to be a
real game. Herbert made a play to Lad McConkey switching
hands with the ball. Is that what's fascinating about the Chargers.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Now?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We know the coach is good, we know Herbert's great,
but they didn't have Quinton Johnson, they didn't have their
top two backs, they didn't have their tackles. So when
you look at film on the Chargers and sometimes fans
and immediate we can be unfair with this. There's just
things Greg they can't do now. So when I watched them,
(26:07):
I'm like, you know, Lad mcconky's great, No Quintin Johnson,
no tackles, third running back for the Chargers to win
that game traveling three thousand miles, I was actually impressed.
I thought it would be close. Now that Alt Hampton
Khalil Max coming back. When you watch the Chargers on film,
(26:27):
is there anything more Herbert and on Harbaugh can do
or this is just what they are now.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Well.
Speaker 8 (26:34):
I think they played that game based on tape study,
not to expose the limitations of the offensive line, because
there were a lot of quick rhythm three step drop timing,
quick five step drop timing throws. He rarely dropped back deep,
he did not. He hardly ever threw the ball at
the intermediate and deeper levels. Everything was quick game, Colin,
(26:56):
And I think your point's right. Right now, they're playing
with backup tackles. Bobby Hart played right tackle. They signed
him the last week, he was there for five days,
and he's starting at right tackle. So they played this
game not to expose their offensive line, and they played
sixteen snaps with three tight ends and actually ran the
ball very effectively out of that And even this touchdown
(27:19):
to Vidal came out of three tight ends in the
low red zone.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
So right now, now it's coaching.
Speaker 8 (27:24):
Now you have to understand what you can do and
what you can't do and play accordingly.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
So Philadelphia, speaking of coaching, we've said this before. Siriani's
more motivator than scheme guru. And when they had good
coordinator Stikeen and Steikan took over the play calling, they
were elite. He leaves, the substitute, find a new oc.
It does not look good. Try spin. Then they get
Kellen Moore. It's better. Now they've made another replacement for
(27:53):
a young man that was on the staff, had never
called plays. I think they have a little bit of
a coaching crisis. People could point to injuries the NFL.
Nobody's totally healthy. Don't they have to Just if I
just said to you, they run the ball fifty one
times this week with a variety of people. Isn't it
just as simple as, guys, here's what we are. We're
a run team. Is it any more complicated.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Than that, Well, not significantly so.
Speaker 8 (28:19):
But I think when you watch their tape the last
couple of years. Okay, don't forget they had an historic
season a year ago with the run game. But I
think when you watch the tape and people around the
league would echo this. They were built on having arguably
the best O line in the league, a really good
defensive front.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Don't forget.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
In twenty twenty two, you can talk stich and all
you want, they led the NFL in quarterback sacks and
had about thirty of them onth third down. So they
were a team built in the trenches. It started with
the O line and the D line, and right now,
neither one of those units is playing at even an
average level. So the question you then ask is where
(28:57):
do they go from here? You know, can they get
the running game back? The old line has been poor
this year, Colin, not even average, but poor.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So the question is what's next?
Speaker 8 (29:07):
Do you have to try to create, you know, to
use your term gimmick type plays on offense?
Speaker 3 (29:12):
What can you do on offense?
Speaker 8 (29:14):
You also, on offense always have to play to what
your quarterback is.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And I think they've told you. I don't think we
have to guess this.
Speaker 8 (29:21):
I think they've told you by how they play that
they believe that Jalen Hurts has pure dropback limitations, which,
by the way, that tape does show. So the question
is if they can't run it, are they limited in
what the answers are?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (29:38):
If we know the answer one hundred percent, but I
think they're kind of telling you that they're uncertain where
to go.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Okay, so I got before we get to our big play,
I want to talk about Green Bay. So sure, I
think Jordan Love is the best quarterback in the league
that nobody will admit is a good quarterback. He's got
the size of the arm movement. Generally we all kind
of no, that's a good quarterback. That's an average guy.
I think Jordan's a really good quarterback. But they're not
(30:06):
scoring a ton. They're in a lot of close games. Now,
my interpretation is this is the youngest offense in the league.
It's almost collegiate. It's twenty three years, twenty four and
twenty five. Seattles shaid a little bit of this. Seattle's
really young. They're finding themselves and sometimes this is early
for Jordan. It still doesn't play that many games. What
do you see now? People say, well, they lost here,
(30:28):
they're close here. I think Jordan Love is an exceptional quarterback.
Not Alan, but he's exceptional. What does the tape say?
Speaker 8 (30:37):
You know, it is only third year as a starter,
which is probably hard for people to believe. It's not
as if he's a ten year pro. You know, he's
a third year starter. I think one thing that I've
really noticed on tape, and when I watched him this week,
I even said to one of my guys, you know,
in the matchup room, I said, you know, I think
he's a little bit less reckless now and he's become
a little more efficient in how he plays.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Every once in a while, they'll throw and to go.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
Maybe shouldn't have done that, but I think the way
he's playing is a little more refined, a little less reckless,
a little more efficient. So there's not as many big plays,
which maybe is the reason they're not necessarily scoring as
many points. They've gotten the run game going the last
couple of weeks, but I think they're sort of settling
into being a team that can be that can win
(31:21):
multiple ways. They can win with a run game, they
can win with efficient passing, they can win with big
play passing, and I think it will continue to come together.
But the tape really shows a quarterback that I believe
is just maturing.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, so tonight Aaron Rodgers takes on Pittsburgh. Now I
have defended Aaron. Pittsburgh's a very unique offense. Between Washington
and Hayward and Firemouth and DK Metcalf, it looks like
an NBA front court. It's a there's no small gadgety guy.
It is a big, strong, long receiving tight end group.
(31:57):
And I think Aaron knows that there's matchup opportunities. I
don't think yet it's a down the field offense, and
I think Aaron knows he's It doesn't look like it
to me, So I think Aaron smartly is going, hey, listen,
we're got to run the ball fifteen yards an end,
play good defense, get turnovers, especially when we're playing second
tier quarterbacks. The PFF grades and other grades are like,
(32:18):
this is bad, and my take is, well, personnel dictate scheme.
So you tell me, is Aaron letting go of it
early because of age and concern for health or does
the tape show you this is what they're going to
be offensively?
Speaker 8 (32:34):
Well, I can't get into Aaron's head. I'm not sure
anybody wants to do that. But one thing does that
the tape shows is they're a very condensed passing game.
They played last week with a lot of six to
ozero line personnel. The Darnell Washington kid is just a
tight end, is just a huge guy in a terrific blocker.
So they're really playing a specific way, which leads you
(32:57):
to believe that they either feel that that's the best
way for Aaron to play right now, or they don't
have enough on the outside where they feel like they
can truly push it down the field. But right now
they're very, very condensed and they're winning games.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's the thing.
Speaker 8 (33:12):
So you know, you're not going to change until it's
demanded that you change. But he does not push the
ball down the field at all, Colin. I mean, that's
the reality. That's what the tape shows. It's really a
tight offense. It's very condensed.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, and they they really do. They're the biggest offense
in the league. I mean, Metcalf is the and I
mean they're just so big and physical, and I think
there's different ways to win in this league, and that's
how they're going to have to win. Okay, So the
next couple of minutes. I've been so impressed with Drake
May and what's fascinating with young quarterbacks. You know bow
(33:47):
Nicks last year in September as a rookie, you're like,
oh boy, and then in October you're like, Okay, this works.
Drake May has popped in the last three to four weeks.
I watch him. He's accurate, he's confident, He's always had size,
arm strength, and movement. What on film are you looking
at with the Patriots kid and going, Wow, that sticks.
That lands.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
When I watch him, I feel like there's such a
calculated way in which he plays. He's a very calm player.
He's an easy thrower. He's been phenomenal in two areas
that you really look at for young quarterbacks, that's third
down and versus blitz. But one trait that he clearly
has and a lot of young quarterbacks really struggle with
this is what I call pocket movement, which is different
(34:32):
than leaving the pocket Colin. He moves around the pocket,
He keeps his eyes downfield. He does not drop his
eyes and look at the rush. He keeps his eyes downfield.
He moves within the pocket and then makes really good throws.
And you don't see a lot of young quarterbacks with
that given trait, because that's a very refined quarterback trait.
(34:54):
But he just looks very comfortable. And you know, you
talk about coaches. I know you talked about the I
heard you speak about that, what do you think they
should do? But you bring in a coach like Josh McDaniels,
who's been doing it a long time, with a proven
track record, knows how to work with quarterbacks, that's the
way to me, you have to do it with a
young quarterback, and then he can design things too that
(35:17):
present clean looks and clean throws. And we can take
a look at the big play from this week. We're
actually seeing it right now, but we can see it
again and take a look at it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
This was a great example of that.
Speaker 8 (35:28):
I mean, this was a shot play, and a shot
play is where teams want to push it down the
field when they get between the forties, they want to
take a shot down the field and how do they
go about doing it, And this was just a great
example of that.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
They're going to put Drake May under center.
Speaker 8 (35:43):
Okay, that's what you normally see with shot plays because
there's going to be a play action element to it,
and then they're going to take Hunter Henry the tight end.
They're going to motion him across the formation, and what
you're going to end up with is it goes from
a two by two set to a three by one set,
so there's ultimately going to be three receivers to the
wide side of the field.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Now, this will eventually impact the.
Speaker 8 (36:04):
Safeties and we're going to see that as we get
further into the play. But let's now take a look
at what this route concept is. Okay, you're going to
see a very common route concept on shot plays. It's
going to be a corner post and a crossing route.
It's essentially a two man route concept because you're going
to max protect. You're going to end up protecting here
(36:27):
with seven and that's what you do on shot plays
is you want to make sure the quarterback off the
run action is secure in the pocket. So here you're
going to see the five offensive linemen. They're part of
the protection obviously, but then you've got two more. You've
got Hunter Henry who moved across the formation, and you've
got the third wide receiver Mac Collins, so they secure
(36:49):
him in the pocket. It's seven man protection. So now
let's just revisit the route concept. There's the crosser by
Kayshaan Boudi, and here's the corner post by Douglas. He
does such a great job here because you know what
happens here. He gets that safety because now the safety's rotated,
that single high safety. As soon as he turns to
(37:09):
the sideline, which he will based on the corner element
of the corner post, he's done because now he cannot
play the post.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So now I'm not.
Speaker 8 (37:19):
Going to say this is an easy throw Colin because
it's forty fifty yards down the field, but it's a defined,
clean look and that's what you're trying to do with
young quarterbacks. And as I said, this was a shot play,
so this is what they wanted to get the ball
down the field. That was the number one read here
is to throw this ball. But I think they're doing
a really good job with him. There's a lot of
(37:40):
clean looks, clean throws, and he's just played very calculated,
very comfortable and really has improved.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I think each and every week.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Greg co sal NFL Films forty six years, as always
we get smarter. Thanks Greg,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Okay, here we go on a Thursday. We are ready
to roll Steeler Cincinnati tonight, Greg co Sell in one hour.
It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening, Thanks for making us part of your day. Look, Jmac, Tonight,
(00:49):
I try to stay away from games that have backup
quarterbacks against old quarterbacks, but tonight the Steelers are at Cincinnati,
and I'm gonna ask for something. It's not a big thing,
but for anybody that is a Steeler fan, let's start
our show with this. All you Yingers out there, I'm
just asking It's a small favor. I don't think you're
(01:11):
capable of a big favor with your Steelers. You're very emotional.
I'm asking a small favor. At about eleven thirty pm,
two night Eastern. You're probably going to be five and one,
and I just want you to add a little perspective
realizing you have beaten Justin Fields, Dylan Gabriel, Carson Wentz,
(01:34):
and a forty year old Joe Flacco by eleven thirty
pm tonight, I'm just asking for a little perspective. Let's
put it this way. Your first five games all green
lights driving to work. That's you know, we all get that.
We all get that about once a month. You're like, man,
I got all green lights. Work was an eleven minute drive,
(01:56):
not a thirty minute drive. Aaron Rodgers is not throwing
the ball down the field. The offense is ranked very low,
but because of the big body types, they don't have
to take risks. And I have said, I think it's
very smart football by Aaron Rodgers. But after tonight, go
grab your pocket. Schedule it sort of changes. Next up
(02:19):
the Packers, then maybe the best offensive line in football,
a team that is humming Indianapolis. Then at Justin Herbert.
By the way, Joe alt will be back, Hampton will
be back, Khalil Mack will be back at Chicago, Buffalo
at Baltimore with Lamar at Detroit Baltimore again. And this
(02:42):
is precisely what I predicted you did this last year.
I said, last year, you're gonna be nine to eight,
ten wins, and but it'll be rough down the stretch.
And it was this year I said you're gonna win
eight or nine games. You're gonna be eight to nine
and nine and eight. It's gonna start hot. This is
a Mike Tomlin trend going back to like twenty twelve,
that he's very emotional, very raw, raw, very inspiring, and
(03:04):
that stuff wears off by about week eleven, and it
comes down to scheme health. Quarterback play, of which the
Steelers since Big Ben got Old hasn't been very good.
Last year you were ten and three, and then the
rest of the way, including a playoff game, you were
zero and five. So you have played one good team
(03:25):
Pittsburgh Seattle. They averaged six point two yards of play.
Sam Darnold didn't even play well, and they blew you
out in Pittsburgh. So right now your offense is ranked
twenty ninth, your defense is ranked twenty fifth. Five and
one is what we call football inflation. At eleven thirty
PM tonight, Mike Tomlin. Teams go back a few years,
(03:47):
start hot, motivation, stuff wears off, pomp bombs, put in
the ground. Best teams win late. So you're gonna beat
Joe Flaccowen Cincinnati. You're gonna beat him. But Robert May's
podcast writer for the Athletics, said, if you look at
the data, if you look at the analytics, Aaron playing
safe works. Now, it probably doesn't work against Josh Allen,
(04:12):
Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love, Justin Herbert, Here's Robert.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
He can still pin the ball on guys.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
But ultimately, when you're playing against the Broncos defense on
divisional weekend, you're going to need to read stuff out
and access different parts of the play than whatever your
first immediate one on one opportunity is. And I still
don't think we've seen him do that enough.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
And I think now he's been able to exist in
this box and it's been okay. If you push him
outside of that, I think that's where things get a
little bit dicey. Think you can feel him not wanting
to sit in the pocket very long and read stuff
out a little bit deeper into these plays.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We saw that with an older Brady, We saw that
with an older Eli. We're seeing it with an older Aaron.
You will be five and one tonight. And I like
what Pittsburgh's doing right now because, as I've said multi times,
this is how Aaron should be playing now. Big body
type advantages, the defense makes plays, and a good solid defense.
(05:09):
It's not great little old in spots. Takes advantage of
flacos and Wentz's and Dylan Gabriels and young quarterbacks. That's
what it does, all right. So this week USC plays
Notre Dame and I was reading an article today. Is
the annual Notre Dame USC football game that big of
a deal anymore? Well, it's a big deal. It's not
(05:30):
Ohio State and Michigan. I don't know if it's Auburn
Alabama certainly close. Is at Oklahoma Texas. It's one of
those traditional rivalries. But tradition, let's be honest. You can
pay high school players now the portal. You can get
sixty new players a year. The college football playoff. Traditionalists
have had a really rough last three years, and they
all lectured us and told us college football was in
(05:53):
big trouble. No, it's not ratings of it up back
to back years. It's great. So ask yourself about USC
Notre Dame. Is it convenient?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Is it necessary? Well not for USC. This relationship has
become uneven and when they do, it's time to renegotiate.
Consider USC, Trump and Notre Dame, NATO. We need to
sit down and talk because Notre Dame needs this game
because they're not one hundred percent in the conference. They
(06:24):
lost to an M and Miami. They desperately need to
beat USC and then USC to win the rest of
their games. They need USC now. The Indiana Hoosiers are
a powerhouse. Apparently USC has nine games a year. They
will include Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State and
(06:46):
now Indiana and Nebraska. Looks okay, and your rival UCLA
that beat Penn State and Washington and Oregon. This game
is not convenient and it's not necessary right for USC.
This this game is just one more roadblock to the playoff.
For Notre Dame, it's a necessity to potentially get to
the playoff. So if I was Jen Cohen, I would say, Okay,
(07:11):
we'll do it every other year and the game has
to be played in September. We have no interest going
playing in a blizzard, But what I thought, what, Okay,
join the Big Ten Conference, then we'll play USC does
not need Notre Dame. This is uneven. Notre Dame desperately
needs USC. Go look at Notre Dame schedule. It's a
(07:33):
lot of Navy, North Carolina State from a bad conference,
the ACC. There's just a lot of games here, Stanford, Boiseastate,
Boston College. Notre Dame needs SC. And then if you
look at USC, even with losing to Illinois, but they
beat Michigan, what if they beat Nebraska, what if they
(07:54):
beat Notre Dame or Oregon, they don't need Notre Dame.
So I would sit down, this is now an uneven relationship,
and I would say, I'm willing to play you every
other year, but it's going to be in the first
four to five weeks of the season. That's what negotiations
are all about. This is not convenient to USC anymore.
It is simply a hurdle, especially if Marcus Freeman stays
(08:17):
there for the next eight years, a top five college coach.
What am I getting out of it? And all you
traditionalists that get upset. You also lectured us that the
NIL was going to ruin the sport, didn't you lectured
us that the portal would ruin the sport. Hasn't that
the College Football Playoff would just kill rivalries? No, it's
going to create new ones. Michigan Notre Dame used to
(08:40):
play every year. They don't. Michigan. Sin's won a national
championship and Notre Dame is once again in power. So
I think Notre Dame wins this weekend, and I think
Marcus Freeman's got it rolling and they're a better team
than they were a month ago. So is USC perhaps,
but this game, with call Weather, better quarterback, potentially better
(09:03):
consistent run game, is going to be a Notre Dame weekend.
But I see this all the time. I see this
with AI. Everybody's saying, oh, it's going to ruin the economy.
I'll argue it's going to expand it. Every time we've
had a new energy or something, you know, it could
be fire, it could be the internet, it could be AI.
(09:23):
What happens the economy grows. Everybody's terrified of AI. I'm taking.
I'm like, yeah, it'll display some lower level you know,
the lower level jobs, absolutely, but it will expand the economy.
And my take on the College Football Playoff and the
nil on the portal. It'll expand college football. It'll feel bigger,
(09:45):
more big games, and so USC does not have a
big game shortage. There will be years. USC will look
at their schedule. You and I will look at the
schedule and go, we got to play Ohio State, at
Penn State, at Indiana at Oregon. Yeah, we get Washington
and Michigan at home. There'll be years us He's like, yikes,
(10:10):
so all the traditionalists freak out. Baseball traditionalists pitchclock, bigger bases,
baseball's ratings up, Baseball attendants up, baseball speed up. Traditionalist
college football is going to ruin it. You can keep
wearing that letterman jacket and telling me UFC Notre Dames
a must. The world's changed. This is twenty twenty five.
(10:33):
Now I have to face my biggest rivals in the
PAC twelve Washington, Oregon, UCLA and Michigan, Penn State, Ohio
State and now Indiana's good. Welcome on a Thursday, Greg
Cosel one hour from now. Get a lot of feedback,
get a lot of pushback on that. But you kept
(10:53):
telling me and I al portal was going to ruin
the sport. No, it hasn't. The great teams are still great.
Ohio State's still roles, Georgia and Bammer are still excellent.
Notre Dame's really good. Texas has all sorts of talent,
so does USC Oregon. All the good teams are still good.
And by the way, since the NIL was created, we
(11:14):
have a new power potentially Indiana. I thought the NIA
and the transfer portal we're gonna hurt the little guy.
We got a little guy now from a basketball school
that just went to Austin and pushed the Ducks all
over the field. So a little guy has emerged potentially
as a legitimate big time program. Nebraska's been dead for
twenty five years. Now they got a winning record. They're
(11:37):
on a roll. So the NIL and the transfer portal
have not hurt the little guy at all. Oh by
the way, Texas Tech is now buying for the playoff.
Indiana got into the playoff, So I don't buy all
this traditionalist nonsense, all this fear mongering at all. College
football has never been better, and it could survive with
Notre Dame USC playing every other year in Sepeptember j MAC.
(12:02):
That will unfortunately be met by the traditionalists who just
don't like any By the way, the NBA Luca goes
Dallas to Los Angeles, it was going to ruin the Mavericks.
Mavericks are still good. They got Cooper Flagg, they got
the best front line in the league. They're gigantic, they'll
be a playoff team, they'll be viable. Everybody's telling me
(12:23):
stuff's going to end sports and enfranchise. How about baseball?
Dodgers have too much money, Mariners have a lead in
the American League, or yeah, in the Mimeric League Championship series,
the Milwaukee Brewers are playing the Dodgers. All I heard
about is oh this is oh my god, all is
the money in baseball? Yeah, the Dodgers are great. The
Yankees are out. The Mets didn't make the playoffs, so
(12:43):
I think we're fine.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Well, speaking of money, all it takes is somebody to
pony up and say, hey, USC and Notre Dame, we
will pay you a lot of money to play every year.
And you know these programs, they would love to take
money hand over fist for a meeting every year, right, Colin,
would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Numbers?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
If somebody came.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Streaming or network said hey, we'll give you ten million
dollars to play a football game one off every year,
wouldn't they?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Don't you think they would do it?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well? Listen, college football was an eight billion dollar annual
business with no president, no CEO. Think about that. The
reason UFC took over boxing is Dana White. They had
a central figure, a centralized CEO president to make call.
Boxing just had greedy promoters and so college football for years.
(13:33):
It had its opportunity to get it back together. But
the Big Ten would play nine conference games, the SEC
would play eight conference games. Some teams powerhouses are playing
Youngstown State and Citadel. Other teams are going out of conference,
playing Auburn and legitimate Oregon. So it was an uneven,
poorly run sport. So es Fan and Fox came in
(13:53):
and said, we're going to kind of run this thing.
We're going to make some changes. All of them are worked.
The playoff's going to be bigger and big every year.
Now you have venture capital firms in New York and
San Francisco and Los Angeles that want to invest in programs.
The Big ten may take two billion dollars from like
a VC. So I mean I I just I constantly
(14:14):
hear I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but
there's so much fear mongering in politics and sports. It's
all gonna be okay. USC Notre Dame play every other
year in September. It's fine. There's new rivalries every year.
Now with this the scheduling, the Big ten, the PAC twelve,
the PAC twelve disappeared, and yet the ratings are up.
It was I went an entire conference left, and the
(14:38):
sports growing and great.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and newon Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Hi, this is Jay.
Speaker 7 (14:50):
I'm the producer of the paul an Toni Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons of
the dumbest takes on sports magical. Don't listen to the
show so it can get cancel.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
What the hell are you doing in our studio? Get him, Pauline,
Ignore that fool.
Speaker 8 (15:11):
Listen to the Paulin and Tony Fusco Show on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
He's still moving.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
You are now entering the no bull zone sponsored by Credible,
Great rates and none of the bull listen. I said,
when I thought Caleb Williams was going to be really,
really good and Justin Fields probably never will be. I
when I first moved to Chicago, people would say, oh,
Justin Fields, well that ship has sailed three teams not working.
Caleb Williams has apparent, I think to some degree, has
(15:41):
turned the corner. He's not there yet. He still misses
on accuracy. But young quarterbacks are tough to judge. Sometimes
they shock you how good they are right out of
the gate Jaden Daniels, and then some shock you how
good they get quickly in you know, year two, Drake May.
Some are a work in progress, Caleb Williams, Michael Pennix,
and some say bow Nicks. I don't think bow Nicks
(16:02):
is a work in progress. I think he's a franchise
quarterback that I wish would run more. He did last year,
he stopped doing it this year. He's highly effective, and
I think he should run more. But I saw a
story today about bow Knicks. How to make bow Nicks better?
Read the headline well, he's twenty three NFL starts in
his completion percentage is sixty six percent, good enough to
(16:23):
get you to a Super Bowl. Forty three total touchdowns,
seventeen turnovers pretty good beginning of year two. Passer ratings low,
nineties ninety two. I'd rather have it at ninety seven
ninety eight. But he's fourteen and nine in a division
with Spags, Jesse Minter and now Pete Carroll, Max Crosby,
(16:44):
Chris Jones, Khalil Mack, great, great edge rushers, great top
of the league defensive guys, Jesse Minner and Spags. He's
fourteen and nine. And my takeaway is Michael Pennix and
Caleb Williams are work in progress. Drake and Jaden and
bow Knicks they work. So I will tell you what
(17:05):
I've noticed with bow Knicks, because I think Denver's the
third best team in the league. He's got to get
better throwing the ball down the field. If you look
at all the data from the line of scrimmage to
thirteen yards fifteen yards actually or fewer right slot fifteen
yards in passer ratings ninety five, completes seventy two percent
of his throws twenty seven touchdown seven picks downfield sixteen eighteen,
(17:30):
twenty three chunk plays. He has struggled. I don't think
he's ever going to be a great deep ball thrower.
But when Brady had Randy Moss, that was the time.
He didn't win a Super Bowl. And Patrick Mahomes with
a huge arm, is actually better and winning more Super
Bowls since Tyreek Hill was traded. Jalen Hurts just won
(17:50):
a Super Bowl and he struggles getting it to his
deep guy aj Brown so bow Knicks doesn't take sacks,
seize the field. He's very accurate. He needs to be
better down the field. Courtland, Sutton, Mims, Franklin, those guys
can get down the field and beat coverage and separate.
But I think it's established. I think Drake made Jaden
(18:12):
Daniels and Bowl. These are franchise quarterbacks. Caleb and Pennix.
I think both are gonna work. One's a great athlete,
one's got a beautiful throwing release. I think those eventually work.
The other thing you could argue beyond running, he stopped
running this year, and I've argued for years. When you're
a young quarterback for the Verse two and a half years.
Run to move the chains as you're figuring out defenses, right.
(18:36):
Patrick Mahomes admitted year three lights went on, play slowed down.
Russell Wilson said that years ago Brady has said that
get into year three, everything slows down. It's the beginning
of year two. Bow Nicks ran a lot last year.
This year he's trying to master the pocket. Don't it'll come,
run more and speed it up, speed the tempo up.
(18:56):
Bow Nicks talked about that.
Speaker 9 (18:59):
I just like it because it gets the defense off balance.
They you know, don't have many calls that they can
get to when you go quick. And we just played
well from you know, quick game and getting to the ball,
seeing what they're in, just finding answers and going I
think it. It's just tough on defense is always has been.
I think that's the biggest reason is because it limits
what a defense can do.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
People kept telling me, justin fields was it last year
against Mahomes and Reeds Spags, Herbert Khalil Mack, there was
a Bosa, there was justin Herbert. Bonicks made the playoffs
and they're still carrying dead cap money. Bonix is a
franchise quarterback, may never throw a great deep ball. Other
(19:42):
than that, he's good.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
One more heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Greg Cosel fifteen minutes. We all get smarter. So many
questions to ask. So I think in the last three weeks,
I think Mahomes has been so good. And I was
saying it this week, only the Chiefs can take Hollywood
Brown and Juju's ms Schuster, and all of a sudden
(20:15):
you're like, oh, these are dynamic players. Now were these good?
I've always held he's a bit more gadget guy than
he is volume guy. But when you look at the Chiefs,
is it Mahomes's magic or is it scheme? Because Hollywood
Brown could go on thirty teams and not make an impact,
and yet it's a couple of touchdowns on the Chiefs.
Is it schemer Mahomes?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, Colin, it's funny.
Speaker 8 (20:38):
I thought last week in particular, was very scheme based.
I thought they had a really good sense and it comes,
of course from Andy Reid and Matt Nagi, a very
good sense of what they were getting from the Lions defense.
And now don't forget the Lions were playing with backup
corners on the outside. They were playing with a number
of other backups as well, and I thought they had
(20:58):
a really good feel for what they were going to
get in certain situations. And I thought it was really
scheme based. It wasn't a Mahomes game in the sense that, Wow,
he did some special things.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I thought he executed at.
Speaker 8 (21:12):
A really high level a really well designed offense. I
thought the best individual play he made Colin was on
the first possession when he hit Smith Schuster on the
crosser that was not the primary receiver, that was the
backside crosser. And that was just one of those special
Mahomes plays because Kirby Joseph, who's very good as an
(21:32):
interceptor reads quarterbacks well, he was waiting right there and
I think he thought he was going to make a
play on the ball. But Mahomes, with the arm strength
and just his understanding of spatial awareness, which is as
good as anyone we've seen, he just made a big
time throw. But that game was much more to me
watching the tape scheme based than wow, look at these
great individual plays.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So let's talk about the team that was seen as
the nemesis, the Arts nemesis, the primary rival of the
Chiefs Buffalo. So my take is what you want to
do in the NFL is draft a quarterback, get the
right quarterback, and then make him comfortable weapons and protection.
Drake London, sure, Jeohn Robinson, Michael Pennix. We can just
(22:16):
say Buffalo's defense isn't very good. But I thought Pennix
and London and Robinson, I thought that was a pretty potent,
especially indoors, that was a pretty potent offense, was it not?
Speaker 8 (22:29):
It is And the way they use b Jhon Robinson
is really good. I mean b John Robinson in my view,
is the best running back in the league.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
But he's more than just a running back. They line
him up all over. This is a pistol offense.
Speaker 8 (22:42):
By the way they run pistol a very very high
percentage and the number one run that they have. They're
an outside zone run team, which you run out of pistol.
Seventy one of Bjhon's carries this year of his eighty
three carries have come out of pistol, and it's outside
zone for the most part. But they really use him
in multiple ways. The Bills don't really have a strong
(23:04):
pass rush. They've tried to upgrade it, but it's still
not good enough with a four man D line. And offensively,
Colin to me, when you have Josh Allen, I think
that your pass game needs.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
To be a little more expansive.
Speaker 8 (23:16):
I know they don't have great receivers, but you know
what to me to construct a pass game tactically and
conceptually and the way you attack zone. I think they
need to do more things. You know, Josh Allener quarterback.
He can make throws. I almost feel like they're a
running football team and if the game demands, then it's
(23:37):
time for Josh.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
But I don't think you can play like that every week.
Speaker 8 (23:40):
I think you need more consistency with what you do
conceptually in your pass game.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, no, I said it this week. Is that I
feel like Sean Payton squeezes every ounce out of bow Nicks.
Ben Johnson has clearly gotten moret a Caleb than the
previous coach. Andy Reid does it with agit players and backups.
I rarely watch Buffalo and go wow, that's creative. Offensively,
(24:07):
I don't. I think they have some players I like,
but I don't see that speaking of Caleb. I didn't
think he was great on Monday night. I think there
are two things I worried about. I agree with you, Yeah,
I watched him out of usc The two criticisms that
were valid consistent accuracy and playing with instructure. I think
(24:28):
he's gotten better within structure. I think his accuracy is
still a major problem. How would you grade him on
Monday night's win?
Speaker 8 (24:39):
I would say that both of the things you said
are very valid. I think even some completions that he
hasn't been as sharp with his ball location as he
needs to be. That's an area he can must continue
to improve. He throws a beautiful ball, He's an easy thrower.
I think Ben Johnson has really designed some really good
things for him. That touchdown to Swift on third down
(25:01):
was just a beautifully conceived and well designed play that
presented just an easy routine throw and then of course.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Swift with the run after catch.
Speaker 8 (25:10):
But I think the ball location, which is the better
term now than just accuracy, the ball location has to
get more and more consistent because there's a lot of
inbreaking throws in the Ben Johnson offense, and you want
to hit receivers on inbreaking throws where they have run
after catch, and he needs to get better at that
because that's foundationally much of what that offense is in
(25:32):
the pass game.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So you and I have both always loved Justin Herbert
and that Chargers Colts game is going to be a
real game. Herbert made a play to Lad McConkey switching
hands with the ball. Is that what's fascinating about the Chargers.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Now?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We know the coach is good, we know Herbert's great,
but they didn't have Quinton Johnson, they didn't have their
top two backs, they didn't have their tackles. So when
you look at film on the Chargers and sometimes fans
and immediate we can be unfair with this. There's just
things Greg they can't do now. So when I watched them,
(26:07):
I'm like, you know, Lad mcconky's great, No Quintin Johnson,
no tackles, third running back for the Chargers to win
that game traveling three thousand miles, I was actually impressed.
I thought it would be close. Now that Alt Hampton
Khalil Max coming back. When you watch the Chargers on film,
(26:27):
is there anything more Herbert and on Harbaugh can do
or this is just what they are now.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Well.
Speaker 8 (26:34):
I think they played that game based on tape study,
not to expose the limitations of the offensive line, because
there were a lot of quick rhythm three step drop timing,
quick five step drop timing throws. He rarely dropped back deep,
he did not. He hardly ever threw the ball at
the intermediate and deeper levels. Everything was quick game, Colin,
(26:56):
And I think your point's right. Right now, they're playing
with backup tackles. Bobby Hart played right tackle. They signed
him the last week, he was there for five days,
and he's starting at right tackle. So they played this
game not to expose their offensive line, and they played
sixteen snaps with three tight ends and actually ran the
ball very effectively out of that And even this touchdown
(27:19):
to Vidal came out of three tight ends in the
low red zone.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
So right now, now it's coaching.
Speaker 8 (27:24):
Now you have to understand what you can do and
what you can't do and play accordingly.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
So Philadelphia, speaking of coaching, we've said this before. Siriani's
more motivator than scheme guru. And when they had good
coordinator Stikeen and Steikan took over the play calling, they
were elite. He leaves, the substitute, find a new oc.
It does not look good. Try spin. Then they get
Kellen Moore. It's better. Now they've made another replacement for
(27:53):
a young man that was on the staff, had never
called plays. I think they have a little bit of
a coaching crisis. People could point to injuries the NFL.
Nobody's totally healthy. Don't they have to Just if I
just said to you, they run the ball fifty one
times this week with a variety of people. Isn't it
just as simple as, guys, here's what we are. We're
a run team. Is it any more complicated.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Than that, Well, not significantly so.
Speaker 8 (28:19):
But I think when you watch their tape the last
couple of years. Okay, don't forget they had an historic
season a year ago with the run game. But I
think when you watch the tape and people around the
league would echo this. They were built on having arguably
the best O line in the league, a really good
defensive front.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Don't forget.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
In twenty twenty two, you can talk stich and all
you want, they led the NFL in quarterback sacks and
had about thirty of them onth third down. So they
were a team built in the trenches. It started with
the O line and the D line, and right now,
neither one of those units is playing at even an
average level. So the question you then ask is where
(28:57):
do they go from here? You know, can they get
the running game back? The old line has been poor
this year, Colin, not even average, but poor.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So the question is what's next?
Speaker 8 (29:07):
Do you have to try to create, you know, to
use your term gimmick type plays on offense?
Speaker 3 (29:12):
What can you do on offense?
Speaker 8 (29:14):
You also, on offense always have to play to what
your quarterback is.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
And I think they've told you. I don't think we
have to guess this.
Speaker 8 (29:21):
I think they've told you by how they play that
they believe that Jalen Hurts has pure dropback limitations, which,
by the way, that tape does show. So the question
is if they can't run it, are they limited in
what the answers are?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (29:38):
If we know the answer one hundred percent, but I
think they're kind of telling you that they're uncertain where
to go.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Okay, so I got before we get to our big play,
I want to talk about Green Bay. So sure, I
think Jordan Love is the best quarterback in the league
that nobody will admit is a good quarterback. He's got
the size of the arm movement. Generally we all kind
of no, that's a good quarterback. That's an average guy.
I think Jordan's a really good quarterback. But they're not
(30:06):
scoring a ton. They're in a lot of close games. Now,
my interpretation is this is the youngest offense in the league.
It's almost collegiate. It's twenty three years, twenty four and
twenty five. Seattles shaid a little bit of this. Seattle's
really young. They're finding themselves and sometimes this is early
for Jordan. It still doesn't play that many games. What
do you see now? People say, well, they lost here,
(30:28):
they're close here. I think Jordan Love is an exceptional quarterback.
Not Alan, but he's exceptional. What does the tape say?
Speaker 8 (30:37):
You know, it is only third year as a starter,
which is probably hard for people to believe. It's not
as if he's a ten year pro. You know, he's
a third year starter. I think one thing that I've
really noticed on tape, and when I watched him this week,
I even said to one of my guys, you know,
in the matchup room, I said, you know, I think
he's a little bit less reckless now and he's become
a little more efficient in how he plays.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Every once in a while, they'll throw and to go.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
Maybe shouldn't have done that, but I think the way
he's playing is a little more refined, a little less reckless,
a little more efficient. So there's not as many big plays,
which maybe is the reason they're not necessarily scoring as
many points. They've gotten the run game going the last
couple of weeks, but I think they're sort of settling
into being a team that can be that can win
(31:21):
multiple ways. They can win with a run game, they
can win with efficient passing, they can win with big
play passing, and I think it will continue to come together.
But the tape really shows a quarterback that I believe
is just maturing.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, so tonight Aaron Rodgers takes on Pittsburgh. Now I
have defended Aaron. Pittsburgh's a very unique offense. Between Washington
and Hayward and Firemouth and DK Metcalf, it looks like
an NBA front court. It's a there's no small gadgety guy.
It is a big, strong, long receiving tight end group.
(31:57):
And I think Aaron knows that there's matchup opportunities. I
don't think yet it's a down the field offense, and
I think Aaron knows he's It doesn't look like it
to me, So I think Aaron smartly is going, hey, listen,
we're got to run the ball fifteen yards an end,
play good defense, get turnovers, especially when we're playing second
tier quarterbacks. The PFF grades and other grades are like,
(32:18):
this is bad, and my take is, well, personnel dictate scheme.
So you tell me, is Aaron letting go of it
early because of age and concern for health or does
the tape show you this is what they're going to
be offensively?
Speaker 8 (32:34):
Well, I can't get into Aaron's head. I'm not sure
anybody wants to do that. But one thing does that
the tape shows is they're a very condensed passing game.
They played last week with a lot of six to
ozero line personnel. The Darnell Washington kid is just a
tight end, is just a huge guy in a terrific blocker.
So they're really playing a specific way, which leads you
(32:57):
to believe that they either feel that that's the best
way for Aaron to play right now, or they don't
have enough on the outside where they feel like they
can truly push it down the field. But right now
they're very, very condensed and they're winning games.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's the thing.
Speaker 8 (33:12):
So you know, you're not going to change until it's
demanded that you change. But he does not push the
ball down the field at all, Colin. I mean, that's
the reality. That's what the tape shows. It's really a
tight offense. It's very condensed.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, and they they really do. They're the biggest offense
in the league. I mean, Metcalf is the and I
mean they're just so big and physical, and I think
there's different ways to win in this league, and that's
how they're going to have to win. Okay, So the
next couple of minutes. I've been so impressed with Drake
May and what's fascinating with young quarterbacks. You know bow
(33:47):
Nicks last year in September as a rookie, you're like,
oh boy, and then in October you're like, Okay, this works.
Drake May has popped in the last three to four weeks.
I watch him. He's accurate, he's confident, He's always had size,
arm strength, and movement. What on film are you looking
at with the Patriots kid and going, Wow, that sticks.
That lands.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
When I watch him, I feel like there's such a
calculated way in which he plays. He's a very calm player.
He's an easy thrower. He's been phenomenal in two areas
that you really look at for young quarterbacks, that's third
down and versus blitz. But one trait that he clearly
has and a lot of young quarterbacks really struggle with
this is what I call pocket movement, which is different
(34:32):
than leaving the pocket Colin. He moves around the pocket,
He keeps his eyes downfield. He does not drop his
eyes and look at the rush. He keeps his eyes downfield.
He moves within the pocket and then makes really good throws.
And you don't see a lot of young quarterbacks with
that given trait, because that's a very refined quarterback trait.
(34:54):
But he just looks very comfortable. And you know, you
talk about coaches. I know you talked about the I
heard you speak about that, what do you think they
should do? But you bring in a coach like Josh McDaniels,
who's been doing it a long time, with a proven
track record, knows how to work with quarterbacks, that's the
way to me, you have to do it with a
young quarterback, and then he can design things too that
(35:17):
present clean looks and clean throws. And we can take
a look at the big play from this week. We're
actually seeing it right now, but we can see it
again and take a look at it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
This was a great example of that.
Speaker 8 (35:28):
I mean, this was a shot play, and a shot
play is where teams want to push it down the
field when they get between the forties, they want to
take a shot down the field and how do they
go about doing it, And this was just a great
example of that.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
They're going to put Drake May under center.
Speaker 8 (35:43):
Okay, that's what you normally see with shot plays because
there's going to be a play action element to it,
and then they're going to take Hunter Henry the tight end.
They're going to motion him across the formation, and what
you're going to end up with is it goes from
a two by two set to a three by one set,
so there's ultimately going to be three receivers to the
wide side of the field.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Now, this will eventually impact the.
Speaker 8 (36:04):
Safeties and we're going to see that as we get
further into the play. But let's now take a look
at what this route concept is. Okay, you're going to
see a very common route concept on shot plays. It's
going to be a corner post and a crossing route.
It's essentially a two man route concept because you're going
to max protect. You're going to end up protecting here
(36:27):
with seven and that's what you do on shot plays
is you want to make sure the quarterback off the
run action is secure in the pocket. So here you're
going to see the five offensive linemen. They're part of
the protection obviously, but then you've got two more. You've
got Hunter Henry who moved across the formation, and you've
got the third wide receiver Mac Collins, so they secure
(36:49):
him in the pocket. It's seven man protection. So now
let's just revisit the route concept. There's the crosser by
Kayshaan Boudi, and here's the corner post by Douglas. He
does such a great job here because you know what
happens here. He gets that safety because now the safety's rotated,
that single high safety. As soon as he turns to
(37:09):
the sideline, which he will based on the corner element
of the corner post, he's done because now he cannot
play the post.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So now I'm not.
Speaker 8 (37:19):
Going to say this is an easy throw Colin because
it's forty fifty yards down the field, but it's a defined,
clean look and that's what you're trying to do with
young quarterbacks. And as I said, this was a shot play,
so this is what they wanted to get the ball
down the field. That was the number one read here
is to throw this ball. But I think they're doing
a really good job with him. There's a lot of
(37:40):
clean looks, clean throws, and he's just played very calculated,
very comfortable and really has improved.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I think each and every week.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Greg co sal NFL Films forty six years, as always
we get smarter. Thanks Greg,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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