October 17, 2025 • 30 mins
Colin Cowherd breaks down the Bengals’ stunning upset over the Steelers on Thursday Night Football, diving into why Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh defense is a huge issue this season. Colin delivers his Blazin’ 5 featuring his favorite bets for week 7 of the NFL season.
Plus, NFL insider Mike Sando joins the show to discuss Dak Prescott's MVP-caliber season with the Cowboys and why Patriots QB Drake Maye is having a breakout year that could reshape New England's future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome in to a loaded Friday, so so much to
talk about live.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
We're in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you
may be watching or listening. Thank you so much for
being part of our show. Off a winning week of
four and one winning week blazing five returns in one
hour for now. It's actually a really interesting slate of games.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You know, j Mac.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Mike Tomlin, Steelers coach, was brutally honest, fourth right and
furious when the Cleveland Browns traded Joe Flacco to the Bengals.
And we're like, why is he so upset? Now we
know why, Mike Tomlin after last night is one and
(01:18):
seven straight up against Joe Flacco on short rest. So
Tomlin's great. On Monday Night football these Thursday games. Jay
Mack and I talked about it yesterday. Tomlin less time
to prepare and motivate. He's not good. So we thought
we'd have Bengals Steelers probably boring NWS thirty three thirty one.
Flacco in two games with the Bengals five hundred and
(01:39):
fifty five yards, five touchdowns, no picks. But that game
was not only about Flacco. It was about Pittsburgh's defense.
It's the highest paid in the league. Once again, it's
atrocious Chase Brown, who knew he was Jim Brown. The
Bengals averaged six point two yards a rush and Cincinnati
has the thirtieth round offensive.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Line in the league. I mean, I thought it was
going to be a boring, ugly Steeler win.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Not at all. It was a firework show. Don't blame
it on Aaron Rodgers. Aaron's been terrific, four touchdown passes.
He only got in trouble when he tried to go deep.
That The story of the game is that defense. Mike
Tomlin's defense four straight years, highest paid, none have been
in the top ten.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
It didn't matter who the running back was.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I mean Chase Brown, Illinois kid, whatever I mean, he
looked great. So six straight possession this is hard to
do in the NFL against anybody, against anybody, forget the Steelers.
The Bengals scored at one point on six straight possessions.
So Joe Flacco old barely can move. Joe Flacco, he
(02:48):
can spin it, he doesn't move much. He only got
sacked twice. So this is a really bad loss for
the Steelers because now the schedule gets brutal, Green Bay, Coles, Chargers, Buffalo,
Detroit couple times. Lamar Jackson's now getting healthy. So watching
the Bengals dash the Steelers for nearly five hundred yards
with the thirtieth offensive line and Joe Flacco, I mean
(03:12):
pitch and catch with Jamar Chase sixteen catches, Cincinnati dominated
time of possession. So the AFC North here we go.
I mean, you've heard of death by a million cuts.
That was like death by one hundred slant patterns. They
just did whatever they want, gigantic holes, Jamar Chase, some
T Higgins. It didn't even matter. I mean, Cincinnati didn't
(03:35):
have their best pass rusher. I'll give them a bit
of a pass. Aaron had plenty of time to throw,
but Pittsburgh's defense. You can't spend that kind of money
and that can't.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Be what I see.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That was a really, really bad loss. Tomlin struggles on
Thursday Night football, Chase Brown average nine point eight yards a.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Carry with that Bengal all line.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Flaco a guru, a wizard, guys got what five six
practices in for the Bengals. Here was Jamar Chase. Jamar said,
they did what we thought they would do.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It did exactly what we was expecting and hoping they do.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
You know, they was gonna put Joey on team, put
jailing on me, and we knew that he was ready
for it. We was gonna take advantage of those opportunities.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Just from an analysis perspective, I just thought, you know,
in the first half, were allowed to run the ball
too much. I think they have about one hundred yards
rushing into half, and so that just kind of set
a negative trajectory. Will fight uphill the rest of the way.
I certainly appreciate the fight, but man, we got to
be cleaner, we got to be better.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, you know, it's in this league.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
There have been so many games this year where we
absolutely feel going into a game, like Steelers, they're gonna
be five and one. We were absolutely sure the Chargers
were to beat Jackson Dart and the Giants. You know,
Bills will take care of Atlanta and young Drake May.
You'd just never known this league. So the Dodgers are
(05:12):
now leading three to zero on the Brewers, one game
away from the World Series, and it's official. They have
no flaw. We thought it was the bullpen. We thought
it was Otawni struggling in the postseason. Yeah, Tyler Glasnow
was excellent last night, eight strikeouts, but he only went
five and two thirds innings, so the Dodgers had to
(05:33):
rely on their bullpen and it was great. For the record,
the Brewers have nine hits through three games of a
playoff series. That's tied for the fewest in league history.
And this is a team that scored a lot of runs, again,
a lot of hits. The Brewers first time being held
a one run or fewer in three straight games on
the season, and Glassnow was excellent, but this was the series.
(05:57):
This was the year to beat the Dodgers, right, Otani struggling,
Mookie Betts got off to a bad start, shaky bullpen,
glass Now and Snell you know had health issues all
year long. They don't really have a natural closer.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Last No.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Five and two thirds fantastic eight strikeouts. I mean, I
if the Dodgers can win playoff games with five hits,
it's over, Blue Jays, Mariners, Brewers, it will not matter.
And once again proving their depth. Much like a cheesecake
factory menu, turn the page, limitless combinations. Mookie Betts had
(06:33):
a great defensive play. Max Munsey had a great defensive play.
Mookie Betts opened the scoring. You know, Tommy edmund hobbled.
Tommy edmund ankle injury, not at one hundred percent, so
everybody just talks about it's a.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Lot of money.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
No, Mookie Bets is unbelievable, insane talent. Stole him from Boston.
Tommy Edmunds again was a Saint Louis Cardinal, hitting two
sixty five. Max Munsey, who can be hot and cold
in defense, had a great play last night. Months he
got released by the Oakland A's. So many combinations and
last time again it wasn't necessarily O Tawi or Freddie Freeman,
(07:12):
it was the bullpen. It was Tommy Edmond And afterwards,
I mean, nobody in the world could have predicted Milwaukee
could not hit. Of all the predictions in this series,
one of them was, listen, Dodgers going to go to
the bullpen. Dodgers are going to need O Tawny to hit.
You're gonna get some runs in this series. In Milwaukee's
(07:32):
got nine hits and the Dodgers are getting better, Reds Phillies,
Brewers more confidence. Here's Dave Roberts after.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
I think the thing about our guys is they're battle
tested and they know that I've never lost faith in him,
they never lost confidence in each other, and so, you know,
so to see what they're doing right now, I'm not surprised.
And we knew all the long that we're going to
need these guys, and these guys are delivering, which is huge.
(08:02):
And you know, we're doing a great job of preventing
runs and the bullpen deserves a lot of credit.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
You know. It's really interesting and you've seen this. This
kind of starts to feel the last couple of years
with the Dodgers, like that Alabama run where they were
just better, or the Kevin Durant Warriors like not all dynasties.
When the Patriots were winning Super Bowls, they were winning
them all by three points. Even the losses to the
Giants last second games, they weren't overpowering people. The years
(08:31):
New England was overpowering people were the Randy Moss years.
They didn't win a Super Bowl. This has got a
little bit of a Warriors feel to it with KD,
like the Warriors won before Katie and after, but those
finals felt different than the KD finals or the dominant
Alabama run for about eight years where they would play
big time teams and they would just outside of maybe
Clemson and Trevor Lawrence or something, they just look better
(08:51):
than everybody. I mean, if the bullpen's not an issue,
they worked all year to try to solve this thing.
They do not have a natural closer. So it almost
feels Listen, money does matter, but the Mets and Yankees
have a lot of it. This feels almost unfair because
if Milwaukee can't get hits, forget driving in runs, home runs,
(09:13):
they can't get hits, they can't get singles and doubles,
the series is probably over. Jmack that game last night,
I gotta tell you, I had such low expectations of
that game. It had twenty three seventeen. All you had
to do is look at the analytics. You're like, the
Bengals have a battle line, your two forty year old quarterbacks.
It's a short week, it's you know, Tomlin has not
(09:37):
been great, so the Steelers will probably win, but they
won't be that explosive. Aaron was terrific, Flacco was amazing
the run game, and we've got a really interesting weekend.
Can Philadelphia bounce out of their issues? Can the Chargers
getting healthier now beat the Colts? That's an underrated good
game this weekend. What did you make it last night?
Speaker 7 (09:57):
Yeah, one of the big takeaways. So one of our
guys on staff, I got a lot of guys that
just didn't gambling, said hey, j Mack, did you see
that Joe Flacco's passing yards total was like two hundred
and fifty?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And I was like, no way, how's he throw it
for two fifty? He just got to this team.
Speaker 7 (10:11):
And then I was like, oh boy, he's gonna be offensive.
Fireworks and lo and behold Flacco's unstoppable. Bengals just score
it will Did you say they scored on six street
possessions against the most expensive defense in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well, it's just I think One of the things that
was obvious last night how easily they ran the ball.
There were huge, huge holes inside the box. So I mean,
Jamar Chase is always going to get his Last night
was crazy, and again Joe Flacco knows what he knows.
If you watched the Bengals last week with Joe Flacco,
remember that game, he just the final like drive. It
(10:45):
was like, I'm just gonna throw to Jamar Chase over
and over and over they did. Jamar Chase said, we
knew what they were going to do defensively, and they
did it.
Speaker 7 (10:52):
You know what, it's embarrassing, Colin if you're the Pittsburgh
Steelers fans and you were all excited about that four
and one start, and then you look at the upcoming.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Schedule, They're probably gonna.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
Lose their next three and all of a sudden gonna
be four and five. And then let's see how Aaron
Rodgers and Arthur Smith are doing on the sideline and
what's going on with Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I think there's some trouble ahead for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 5 (11:22):
Hi, this is Jay.
Speaker 8 (11:23):
I'm the producer of the Paula and Toni Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camps.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
What the hell are you doing in our studio?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Get him, Paul, Ignore that fool.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Listen to the Paula and Tony Fusco Show on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
He's still moving. Let's blaze it up, right up. It's
Collins blazon five Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And Browns highlight Cleveland at home minus two and a half.
There's an argument when Cleveland's at home. They have the
best defense in the NFL. PFF has it as the
highest graded defense. You cannot run on this team, and
the wins are going to be over forty miles an hour,
the gusts are and it's going to be rainy. Dylan Gabriel,
He'll be fine. They're not gonna ask much. The Dolphins
(12:21):
only win this year came up by win over the
Jets barely. They have been out gained in five or
six games. They have culture issues, the quarterback calling out
the coach, and they give up the second most yards
per play in the league. You're talking about an elite
defense at home against the Dolphins defense that is atrocious,
(12:44):
and generally if your defense is bad, it's worse on
the road. I think it's mostly low scoring, sloppy. I
trust Cleveland's defense to carry the day, maybe get a
turnover in points twenty four to seventeen.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Browns win and over Giants, said Broncos. I like Denver
to win and win big.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
If you know Jackson Dart yards per play is behind
Russell Wilson this year, and Russell Wilson got bench. This
defense is the best in the league, best third down defense,
best red zone defense, leaves the NFL in sacks. Okay,
they're two and zero at home, both comfortably and Jackson Dart.
Let's not kid ourselves. Russell Wilson had fewer giveaways and
(13:27):
average more yards per play. Jackson Dart's the better story.
He's got good energy, But against this defense in Denver,
forget about it. The Broncos defense at home this year
is unbelievable, relentless pressure. And again I think the Giants
are a really fun story, but they're owing three on
the road this season. I'm gonna take Denver to win
(13:49):
twenty eight to twenty cover the spread. Don't think it'll
feel this.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Close, Commander said, Cowboys.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Take the over fifty four and a half. I don't
care if Terry McLeay oram plays opposing quarterbacks against the
Cowboys and Commanders are completing sixty eight percent of their
throws in a passer rating almost one to ten, both
quarterbacks are gonna eat. The Commanders have scored twenty four
points plus in four straight games, but their run defense
(14:18):
has gotten worse with injuries and their secondary the mess
Ceedee Lambs back for the Cowboys, but the problem is
they allow the most big plays in the NFL. With
or without Terry McLaurin, I think you're gonna get wild scoring.
The Cowboys defense this season has lasting virtually everything, and
now Washington's has progressively gotten worse over the last three weeks.
(14:43):
I don't need Terry McLaurin. That's not the issue. Remember
when Washington scored points against Chicago and turned it over
three times. They didn't play a clean game, and they
scored points. I'm taking the over. Commanders win. That's not
my play. Thirty twenty seven. Take the over fifty four
and a half.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Packers said Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I think green Bay wins. I'm taking the seven. It's
moved up to seven Arizona. It doesn't matter if Jacoby
Brissett or Kyler Murray played. Kyler Murray foot injury may play.
Last week, Kobe Brissett had nine big plays against the
Colts Okay, and Green Bay has yet to win a
road game. They're very young, they're a little banged up
(15:24):
on offense. Listen Arizona. All six of their games this year,
most in the NFL have been one score game. They've
lit in the fourth quarter of five of their six games,
and they're always feisty at home. And green Bay is
not taking the ball away this year. The Arizona offense,
green Bay is gonna have to prepare for Kyler Murray
(15:46):
and Jacoby Brissett. I think that's a disadvantage. I'm gonna
take green Bay to win close. Seven points is too many.
Twenty eight to twenty four, feisty Arizona with either quarterback
at home keeps it close. Buccaneers said Lions one of
my favorite bets of the weekend. I like the Lions
to win and cover. First of all, the Lions are
(16:08):
not only nine and two at home in the last
couple of years, they average thirty seven points a game
at home. They're a different offense, very good. Jared Goff
leads the NFL in completion percentage that chiefs game. Kansas
City's the best team in the league, probably by a touchdown.
When this team gets home, they are lethal and their
defense is taking the ball away this year top five
(16:31):
in the league. In Baker Mayfield has a lot of,
as j Max told you the last couple of weeks,
turnover worthy plays. So the Bucks have trailed in four
their in the fourth quarter in five of their six games,
twenty fourth in scoring defense, they're missing a couple of corners.
So a team that is really stacked on offense comes
home after an ugly loss, they face a Tampa team
(16:53):
that is winning close but trailing in all their games. Finally,
their separation. I don't think it's a great Sunday for
Baker in the Bucks. Lions win it Lions cover twenty
eight to twenty one. A game I strongly considered was
the Colts beating take the points with the culture over
(17:14):
the Chargers. But reportedly Khalil Mack and Joe All are
going to play for the Chargers, So I'm not betting
against Harball if he's got his starting left tackle and
his best pass rusher. So again, I'll take the Browns
in an ugly game with horrendous weather against the Miami
team that's got cultural issues right now. And more, I'm
gonna take the Broncos comfortably the over in the Cowboys
(17:37):
Commander's wild shootout. Green Baya win but look ugly, Cardinals cover,
and I think the Lions. I think the Bucks have
been a really fun team to watch, but man coming
off an ugly loss Detroit at home, I'm gonna take.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
The win and the cover.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
One more. Heard the Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
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Speaker 1 (18:05):
So Stafford, Joe Flacco, Aaron Rodgers, the old guys are
highly productive. I don't I don't think Aaron's The problem
actually is. Passer rating is like one, four one five
with Pittsburgh Mike Sando, senior NFL writer for the Athletic
Selector Pro Football Hall of Fame. There is you know,
it's an interesting thing going on between the old guys
(18:26):
flourishing Mike and the Darnold's and the Bakers sort of
getting a reboot with clever offensive coordinators. I said, a
couple of weeks ago, I saw this where there were
fifteen quarterbacks with passer rating over one hundred and it
was six two years ago.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Is some of it?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Maybe it's zone defense across the league, so it's it's
kind of throw to a spot.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I mean the quarterback play.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
When I watched Flaco do that last night and Aaron's
played well, it does feel like the golden era of
quarterback play.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Is there is there a reason why?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I do think it's easier to play the position from
colin But you know, those guys who have been around
a long time usually get rid of the ball. And
when we're talking about the worst quarterbacking in the league
this year, it's Justin Field's taking nine sacks, not because
his protection is terrible, because he doesn't know where to
go at the ball, and so these guys if you
look at Rogers this year, quickest time to throw for
him in his whole career. He's getting getting it out. Also,
(19:20):
we know, just bigger picture, these guys don't get hit
like they used to. You know, I think back in
the day some of the legends, you know, Kenny Stabler
shows up late to the game, he's been out all night.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
You know, he.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Has a terrible first half, and then he throws up
at halftime that's actually happened, and then goes out and
has a big second half. You can't play to longevity
the way those guys lived and played and say but
it was an extreme example in the Hall of Famer.
But now these guys are the best rest, the best travel.
You know, they know how to take care of their body,
and the rules are all set up. You never see
(19:53):
him get eear hold, you know. So it's really a
great setup for these guys to play when they're older.
What happened though the last few years is but a
lot of them retired, so you know, there's fewer of
them now than there were four or five years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You know, I said this generally, if the average NFL
franchise quarterback career is fifteen years. I always feel like
mid second chapter, I got a good read on you.
For years, I said, Dak is Kirk cousins with better mobility.
But Kirk never carried this kind of roster, and Dallas
isn't a great team. But no Ceede Lamb, no number
(20:29):
one tight end offensive line is still in a rebuild
every I mean, let's be honest, they play from behind.
You have to win by track meet. I honestly feel
like we're in chapter eleven or whatever year it is
for Dak, and I mean he Zach Martin, Tyron Smith,
Zeke Dak, all these changes, Ceedee Lamb. If he's upright,
(20:49):
he wins double digit games. I think I've undervalued Dak,
or maybe the intangibles, the tangibles caught up with the intangibles.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Maybe it's that.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Here's what happens so common by the end of the
year when they lose in the first round of the
playoffs or don't make it. That's what goes into our mind,
is like, hey, we discount Dak because he's had good
years before and it never leads him anywhere. And so
I think that's what happens.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
We have a.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Cowboy fatigue, a Dak fatigue. But you have to realize
the last time he played a full season, he was
second in MVP balloting. That was twenty twenty three. So
he's played really well here, has before, but I think
it has been a little bit of a different level
for him here maybe a little bit under McCarthy and
now under Schottenheimer.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, you know, I want to talk about some young quarterbacks.
So you know, Caleb's in year two, but Ben Johnson
has a pretty sophisticated system. There's a lot of new
guy Burden lutheror Burden's new, Loveland's new. They haven't used
him much. Ben Johnson's systems new, the staff is new,
and so I look at Caleb and I'm like, what
(21:54):
my eyes tell me this, Mike. He is playing within
structure more than last It's more of an intentional offense.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I can see the game plan.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
But I made this argument this week bow Knicks may
never throw a deep ball and Caleb may never be
really consistently accurate. I mean, that's what I see is
that he's playing with instructure to a degree, but he's
still struggling with I mean, Brady couldn't move. There are
no perfect quarterbacks. Where do you see Ben and Caleb
(22:25):
right now.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I think it's really good that it's been relatively quiet
and every week's not a referendum on it, because you know,
Ben Johnson came out with guns blazing. I mean he
was hard on their players and Caleb in the off
season and said things like we're watching our body language,
or he complained about burden being the training room, all
these types of things that it kind of got my
attention like, WHOA, this guy's kind of old school in
(22:49):
terms of how he treats guys. And I think that
can ultimately be good for Caleb Williams because you know,
he probably hasn't had that. He probably hasn't had somebody
he's always been the star, always come pretty easy for him,
and so now he's got this coach who's tough and
going to hold him to it. I think what we
want to see over time is, and I can't tell
fully yet, is how much are they setting up the
(23:11):
offense so Caleb can function with whatever his weaknesses are
versus how much can he really go in the direction
Jared goffwent and really really flourish as the.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
In the system.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
I think we've seen some signs that it is a
little bit more within the system. He still has a
really long time to throw. I mentioned that for Rogers.
You know, one extreme Caleb I think is still on
average is time to throw is maybe second or third
slowest in the league. So it's a mix. It's a process,
but I love that it's not every week he's in
the headlines.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I'm going to ask you about three young quarterbacks. Let's
start with bo Nicks. Last week in London, I thought
Sean was body language told me he was visibly frustrated
with bo Nicks.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Where are you on bow?
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, I think it's been a little underwhelming this year.
I was very high on what I saw last season,
especially late in the year, and all of the quarterback tiers.
Feedback I got, most of it was from people in
the league was wow, let's see where this can go.
With Sean Payton. I still kind of feel that way,
but it feels like it's been a little underwhelling for
a while. He was a little over the place, a
little undisciplined. You mentioned, you know, throwing the ball down
(24:22):
the field. He still has a really low yard per
attempt both years. His explosive play rate is pretty low,
so I guess I need to see how much he
can do beyond the system still, and that's fine. I
think he's a solid starting quarterback, but I wouldn't really
move him ahead of high tier three at this point,
would you.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
No, No, I think that's right Drake May. Now that's different.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
He's bigger, got a better deep ball arm like bo Nicks,
moves very well. Are you surprised he's this good this quickly?
With all those free agents, draft picks are playing brand
new staff. There's a lot of moving parts here. I mean,
this team from two hundred eighty million bucks on free agent,
you got five six new starters.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Are you surprised?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Very pleasantly surprised on Drake May. You know, I think
that there were positive signs as a rookie, but all
the discussion was well, kind of hard to judge him
because it was so bad around him. And I know
they spent a lot of money in fregency, but still
nine out of ten people in the league thought that's
a really bad roster coming into this year. You can't
buy a team in free agency normally, anyway, you can
make yourself a little bit better. So I think he
(25:27):
has shown, especially the last couple of weeks, some really
you know, higher level stuff. Some of the off schedule
stuff's been kind of special. He seems to have the
right makeup for all of this, so I'm really encouraged.
I think he's somebody that's probably ahead of where thought
he would be.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I think Jackson Dart feels a little better story than
player right now, but he plays with confidence. I think
the story is great. It's New York. I just saw
something last night when I was going to make my
picks that, you know, Russell Wilson actually was averaging more
yards of player than Jackson, but the story's way more
interesting with Jackson. Dark Where are you on Jackson?
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Yeah, well, Jackson's first start, the average like three point
six yards per play and everyone was super excited. So
I think he could definitely throw the ball. I do
like the energy. I do think he has a chance now,
I was he takes too much contact? Okay, I think
thirty seven percent of his plays, which is a really high.
I think justin Fields is the only one higher.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Are you know, like a.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Sack, a designed rush, getting hit after you throw the ball,
a scramble And that's okay if you're Lamar Jackson, and
you know how to wiggle on these hits, and you're
a really great runner who just doesn't get a let up.
This guy, you know, goes out there and just gets
hit in the chin. I mean, he's out there downfield
stiff arming, you know, somebody with his throwing hand, and
(26:49):
he's laughing about it after the game, and it's kind
of fun. But that's a lot of contact without rolling
with the punches. Right, He's taken shots and I think
that's not sustainable. So that's my one concern with him.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Okay, finally, let's wrap it up with this.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Did you ever think Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnald we're
going to be this good? No.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
I thought Baker Mayfield could be good, but I didn't
think he'd be this good because he was the number
one pick who got hurt, you know, and so I
always thought that there was something there. It was kind
of weird how they bailed on him so fast, but
Donald for sure seemed to be, you know, done. I
(27:33):
thought before he went to the forty nine ers, and
there were people that I know who had you been
with him before and liked him but just didn't see
this coming. So the first person that told me look
out for Donald was Randy Mueler. He's with the Saints now,
but we used to do a podcast together and he
saw him with San Francisco and was like, look out,
this is going to be a reclamation story. And it's
been totally right. But what he's doing in Seattle, I
(27:56):
think is another level ahead of what he did in Minnesota. Yes,
you know, and it's like, that's kind of surprising me.
You would have thought with this Seattle team, Hey, they
traded DK metcalf McDonald. Mike McDonald's got this defense going,
but they're gonna have to carry him. They don't even
have much of a run game. Their defense has been
up and down with injuries, and the one constant has
been Darnold looking like a Chier one quarterback. It's awesome
(28:19):
for that.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And also they're the second youngest offense. I said this
two weeks ago. Minnesota had Justin Jefferson, the great coach,
your left tackle, you know, tight end play Seattle's kids
and we didn't even know if js N was a
number one. Like this, that's walking into a new system
with the second youngest offense the Green Bay And I
(28:41):
mean that Baker game was one of the best quarterback
duels I've seen. It's like a Manning Brady game.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It totally was.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
It was, it was, It was really really incredible. I
just I feel like I'm totally betting on those guys.
As far as Baker, is there any quarterback in the
league whose guys are going to lay it on the
line more for him based on how he plays? I mean,
I want to play for him. You know, I've run
out there and take a huge hit over the middle
right now for that guy. Just the energy he brings.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, unique personality. Mike Santoisos, love your work at the
Athletic Senior Writer.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We love his stuff. Mike, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Hey, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, it's between the old guys hanging in there and
playing well Flacco, Rogers and Stafford, and the young guys
like Drake May hitting. You know, I said this this
next draft, if you had four guys in the first
round that could play, you get to a saturation point.
There's not that many teams. Jets need a quarterback, Raiders
(29:39):
need a quarterback. Cleveland needs an absolute quarterback. Now, the
Rams may draft one and sit in behind Stafford for
a year or two. But I mean the Jets, the Raiders,
and the Browns absolutely need a quarterback. But I mean
I watched Bryce Young. I'm like, you know what, Now,
they got him a number one receiver, they got a
little bit of a running game, they got him an
offensive coach.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
It's something I think some of the teams.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
That draft a quarterback don't necessarily need them now, but they,
you know, their quarterbacks getting older. Like Pittsburgh, you could
see them drafting a quarterback with Aaron Rodgers. Maybe not
first pick, second third pick. But there's only a handful
of team. I mean, Spencer Rattler New Orleans, why not.
I mean, they're not a super Bowl team this year
(30:21):
or next. Let's just let's just let's see if it meshes.
Let's just let him play. What if Spencer Rattler outplays
Caleb Williams this weekend? All it takes about three games.
I mean, Jackson Dart's first game, everybody fell in love
with him, and you're like, yeah, yards per play with
only listen, you can change the narrative with a bigger
road win or back to back late game wins. Young quarterback.
(30:43):
Everybody in the building's like, that's our guy,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome in to a loaded Friday, so so much to
talk about live.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
We're in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you
may be watching or listening. Thank you so much for
being part of our show. Off a winning week of
four and one winning week blazing five returns in one
hour for now. It's actually a really interesting slate of games.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You know, j Mac.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Mike Tomlin, Steelers coach, was brutally honest, fourth right and
furious when the Cleveland Browns traded Joe Flacco to the Bengals.
And we're like, why is he so upset? Now we
know why, Mike Tomlin after last night is one and
(01:18):
seven straight up against Joe Flacco on short rest. So
Tomlin's great. On Monday Night football these Thursday games. Jay
Mack and I talked about it yesterday. Tomlin less time
to prepare and motivate. He's not good. So we thought
we'd have Bengals Steelers probably boring NWS thirty three thirty one.
Flacco in two games with the Bengals five hundred and
(01:39):
fifty five yards, five touchdowns, no picks. But that game
was not only about Flacco. It was about Pittsburgh's defense.
It's the highest paid in the league. Once again, it's
atrocious Chase Brown, who knew he was Jim Brown. The
Bengals averaged six point two yards a rush and Cincinnati
has the thirtieth round offensive.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Line in the league. I mean, I thought it was
going to be a boring, ugly Steeler win.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Not at all. It was a firework show. Don't blame
it on Aaron Rodgers. Aaron's been terrific, four touchdown passes.
He only got in trouble when he tried to go deep.
That The story of the game is that defense. Mike
Tomlin's defense four straight years, highest paid, none have been
in the top ten.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
It didn't matter who the running back was.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I mean Chase Brown, Illinois kid, whatever I mean, he
looked great. So six straight possession this is hard to
do in the NFL against anybody, against anybody, forget the Steelers.
The Bengals scored at one point on six straight possessions.
So Joe Flacco old barely can move. Joe Flacco, he
(02:48):
can spin it, he doesn't move much. He only got
sacked twice. So this is a really bad loss for
the Steelers because now the schedule gets brutal, Green Bay, Coles, Chargers, Buffalo,
Detroit couple times. Lamar Jackson's now getting healthy. So watching
the Bengals dash the Steelers for nearly five hundred yards
with the thirtieth offensive line and Joe Flacco, I mean
(03:12):
pitch and catch with Jamar Chase sixteen catches, Cincinnati dominated
time of possession. So the AFC North here we go.
I mean, you've heard of death by a million cuts.
That was like death by one hundred slant patterns. They
just did whatever they want, gigantic holes, Jamar Chase, some
T Higgins. It didn't even matter. I mean, Cincinnati didn't
(03:35):
have their best pass rusher. I'll give them a bit
of a pass. Aaron had plenty of time to throw,
but Pittsburgh's defense. You can't spend that kind of money
and that can't.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Be what I see.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That was a really, really bad loss. Tomlin struggles on
Thursday Night football, Chase Brown average nine point eight yards a.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Carry with that Bengal all line.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Flaco a guru, a wizard, guys got what five six
practices in for the Bengals. Here was Jamar Chase. Jamar said,
they did what we thought they would do.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It did exactly what we was expecting and hoping they do.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
You know, they was gonna put Joey on team, put
jailing on me, and we knew that he was ready
for it. We was gonna take advantage of those opportunities.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Just from an analysis perspective, I just thought, you know,
in the first half, were allowed to run the ball
too much. I think they have about one hundred yards
rushing into half, and so that just kind of set
a negative trajectory. Will fight uphill the rest of the way.
I certainly appreciate the fight, but man, we got to
be cleaner, we got to be better.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, you know, it's in this league.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
There have been so many games this year where we
absolutely feel going into a game, like Steelers, they're gonna
be five and one. We were absolutely sure the Chargers
were to beat Jackson Dart and the Giants. You know,
Bills will take care of Atlanta and young Drake May.
You'd just never known this league. So the Dodgers are
(05:12):
now leading three to zero on the Brewers, one game
away from the World Series, and it's official. They have
no flaw. We thought it was the bullpen. We thought
it was Otawni struggling in the postseason. Yeah, Tyler Glasnow
was excellent last night, eight strikeouts, but he only went
five and two thirds innings, so the Dodgers had to
(05:33):
rely on their bullpen and it was great. For the record,
the Brewers have nine hits through three games of a
playoff series. That's tied for the fewest in league history.
And this is a team that scored a lot of runs, again,
a lot of hits. The Brewers first time being held
a one run or fewer in three straight games on
the season, and Glassnow was excellent, but this was the series.
(05:57):
This was the year to beat the Dodgers, right, Otani struggling,
Mookie Betts got off to a bad start, shaky bullpen,
glass Now and Snell you know had health issues all
year long. They don't really have a natural closer.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Last No.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Five and two thirds fantastic eight strikeouts. I mean, I
if the Dodgers can win playoff games with five hits,
it's over, Blue Jays, Mariners, Brewers, it will not matter.
And once again proving their depth. Much like a cheesecake
factory menu, turn the page, limitless combinations. Mookie Betts had
(06:33):
a great defensive play. Max Munsey had a great defensive play.
Mookie Betts opened the scoring. You know, Tommy edmund hobbled.
Tommy edmund ankle injury, not at one hundred percent, so
everybody just talks about it's a.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Lot of money.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
No, Mookie Bets is unbelievable, insane talent. Stole him from Boston.
Tommy Edmunds again was a Saint Louis Cardinal, hitting two
sixty five. Max Munsey, who can be hot and cold
in defense, had a great play last night. Months he
got released by the Oakland A's. So many combinations and
last time again it wasn't necessarily O Tawi or Freddie Freeman,
(07:12):
it was the bullpen. It was Tommy Edmond And afterwards,
I mean, nobody in the world could have predicted Milwaukee
could not hit. Of all the predictions in this series,
one of them was, listen, Dodgers going to go to
the bullpen. Dodgers are going to need O Tawny to hit.
You're gonna get some runs in this series. In Milwaukee's
(07:32):
got nine hits and the Dodgers are getting better, Reds Phillies,
Brewers more confidence. Here's Dave Roberts after.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
I think the thing about our guys is they're battle
tested and they know that I've never lost faith in him,
they never lost confidence in each other, and so, you know,
so to see what they're doing right now, I'm not surprised.
And we knew all the long that we're going to
need these guys, and these guys are delivering, which is huge.
(08:02):
And you know, we're doing a great job of preventing
runs and the bullpen deserves a lot of credit.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
You know. It's really interesting and you've seen this. This
kind of starts to feel the last couple of years
with the Dodgers, like that Alabama run where they were
just better, or the Kevin Durant Warriors like not all dynasties.
When the Patriots were winning Super Bowls, they were winning
them all by three points. Even the losses to the
Giants last second games, they weren't overpowering people. The years
(08:31):
New England was overpowering people were the Randy Moss years.
They didn't win a Super Bowl. This has got a
little bit of a Warriors feel to it with KD,
like the Warriors won before Katie and after, but those
finals felt different than the KD finals or the dominant
Alabama run for about eight years where they would play
big time teams and they would just outside of maybe
Clemson and Trevor Lawrence or something, they just look better
(08:51):
than everybody. I mean, if the bullpen's not an issue,
they worked all year to try to solve this thing.
They do not have a natural closer. So it almost
feels Listen, money does matter, but the Mets and Yankees
have a lot of it. This feels almost unfair because
if Milwaukee can't get hits, forget driving in runs, home runs,
(09:13):
they can't get hits, they can't get singles and doubles,
the series is probably over. Jmack that game last night,
I gotta tell you, I had such low expectations of
that game. It had twenty three seventeen. All you had
to do is look at the analytics. You're like, the
Bengals have a battle line, your two forty year old quarterbacks.
It's a short week, it's you know, Tomlin has not
(09:37):
been great, so the Steelers will probably win, but they
won't be that explosive. Aaron was terrific, Flacco was amazing
the run game, and we've got a really interesting weekend.
Can Philadelphia bounce out of their issues? Can the Chargers
getting healthier now beat the Colts? That's an underrated good
game this weekend. What did you make it last night?
Speaker 7 (09:57):
Yeah, one of the big takeaways. So one of our
guys on staff, I got a lot of guys that
just didn't gambling, said hey, j Mack, did you see
that Joe Flacco's passing yards total was like two hundred
and fifty?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And I was like, no way, how's he throw it
for two fifty? He just got to this team.
Speaker 7 (10:11):
And then I was like, oh boy, he's gonna be offensive.
Fireworks and lo and behold Flacco's unstoppable. Bengals just score
it will Did you say they scored on six street
possessions against the most expensive defense in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well, it's just I think One of the things that
was obvious last night how easily they ran the ball.
There were huge, huge holes inside the box. So I mean,
Jamar Chase is always going to get his Last night
was crazy, and again Joe Flacco knows what he knows.
If you watched the Bengals last week with Joe Flacco,
remember that game, he just the final like drive. It
(10:45):
was like, I'm just gonna throw to Jamar Chase over
and over and over they did. Jamar Chase said, we
knew what they were going to do defensively, and they
did it.
Speaker 7 (10:52):
You know what, it's embarrassing, Colin if you're the Pittsburgh
Steelers fans and you were all excited about that four
and one start, and then you look at the upcoming.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Schedule, They're probably gonna.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
Lose their next three and all of a sudden gonna
be four and five. And then let's see how Aaron
Rodgers and Arthur Smith are doing on the sideline and
what's going on with Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I think there's some trouble ahead for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 5 (11:22):
Hi, this is Jay.
Speaker 8 (11:23):
I'm the producer of the Paula and Toni Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camps.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
What the hell are you doing in our studio?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Get him, Paul, Ignore that fool.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Listen to the Paula and Tony Fusco Show on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
He's still moving. Let's blaze it up, right up. It's
Collins blazon five Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And Browns highlight Cleveland at home minus two and a half.
There's an argument when Cleveland's at home. They have the
best defense in the NFL. PFF has it as the
highest graded defense. You cannot run on this team, and
the wins are going to be over forty miles an hour,
the gusts are and it's going to be rainy. Dylan Gabriel,
He'll be fine. They're not gonna ask much. The Dolphins
(12:21):
only win this year came up by win over the
Jets barely. They have been out gained in five or
six games. They have culture issues, the quarterback calling out
the coach, and they give up the second most yards
per play in the league. You're talking about an elite
defense at home against the Dolphins defense that is atrocious,
(12:44):
and generally if your defense is bad, it's worse on
the road. I think it's mostly low scoring, sloppy. I
trust Cleveland's defense to carry the day, maybe get a
turnover in points twenty four to seventeen.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Browns win and over Giants, said Broncos. I like Denver
to win and win big.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
If you know Jackson Dart yards per play is behind
Russell Wilson this year, and Russell Wilson got bench. This
defense is the best in the league, best third down defense,
best red zone defense, leaves the NFL in sacks. Okay,
they're two and zero at home, both comfortably and Jackson Dart.
Let's not kid ourselves. Russell Wilson had fewer giveaways and
(13:27):
average more yards per play. Jackson Dart's the better story.
He's got good energy, But against this defense in Denver,
forget about it. The Broncos defense at home this year
is unbelievable, relentless pressure. And again I think the Giants
are a really fun story, but they're owing three on
the road this season. I'm gonna take Denver to win
(13:49):
twenty eight to twenty cover the spread. Don't think it'll
feel this.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Close, Commander said, Cowboys.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Take the over fifty four and a half. I don't
care if Terry McLeay oram plays opposing quarterbacks against the
Cowboys and Commanders are completing sixty eight percent of their
throws in a passer rating almost one to ten, both
quarterbacks are gonna eat. The Commanders have scored twenty four
points plus in four straight games, but their run defense
(14:18):
has gotten worse with injuries and their secondary the mess
Ceedee Lambs back for the Cowboys, but the problem is
they allow the most big plays in the NFL. With
or without Terry McLaurin, I think you're gonna get wild scoring.
The Cowboys defense this season has lasting virtually everything, and
now Washington's has progressively gotten worse over the last three weeks.
(14:43):
I don't need Terry McLaurin. That's not the issue. Remember
when Washington scored points against Chicago and turned it over
three times. They didn't play a clean game, and they
scored points. I'm taking the over. Commanders win. That's not
my play. Thirty twenty seven. Take the over fifty four
and a half.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Packers said Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I think green Bay wins. I'm taking the seven. It's
moved up to seven Arizona. It doesn't matter if Jacoby
Brissett or Kyler Murray played. Kyler Murray foot injury may play.
Last week, Kobe Brissett had nine big plays against the
Colts Okay, and Green Bay has yet to win a
road game. They're very young, they're a little banged up
(15:24):
on offense. Listen Arizona. All six of their games this year,
most in the NFL have been one score game. They've
lit in the fourth quarter of five of their six games,
and they're always feisty at home. And green Bay is
not taking the ball away this year. The Arizona offense,
green Bay is gonna have to prepare for Kyler Murray
(15:46):
and Jacoby Brissett. I think that's a disadvantage. I'm gonna
take green Bay to win close. Seven points is too many.
Twenty eight to twenty four, feisty Arizona with either quarterback
at home keeps it close. Buccaneers said Lions one of
my favorite bets of the weekend. I like the Lions
to win and cover. First of all, the Lions are
(16:08):
not only nine and two at home in the last
couple of years, they average thirty seven points a game
at home. They're a different offense, very good. Jared Goff
leads the NFL in completion percentage that chiefs game. Kansas
City's the best team in the league, probably by a touchdown.
When this team gets home, they are lethal and their
defense is taking the ball away this year top five
(16:31):
in the league. In Baker Mayfield has a lot of,
as j Max told you the last couple of weeks,
turnover worthy plays. So the Bucks have trailed in four
their in the fourth quarter in five of their six games,
twenty fourth in scoring defense, they're missing a couple of corners.
So a team that is really stacked on offense comes
home after an ugly loss, they face a Tampa team
(16:53):
that is winning close but trailing in all their games. Finally,
their separation. I don't think it's a great Sunday for
Baker in the Bucks. Lions win it Lions cover twenty
eight to twenty one. A game I strongly considered was
the Colts beating take the points with the culture over
(17:14):
the Chargers. But reportedly Khalil Mack and Joe All are
going to play for the Chargers, So I'm not betting
against Harball if he's got his starting left tackle and
his best pass rusher. So again, I'll take the Browns
in an ugly game with horrendous weather against the Miami
team that's got cultural issues right now. And more, I'm
gonna take the Broncos comfortably the over in the Cowboys
(17:37):
Commander's wild shootout. Green Baya win but look ugly, Cardinals cover,
and I think the Lions. I think the Bucks have
been a really fun team to watch, but man coming
off an ugly loss Detroit at home, I'm gonna take.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
The win and the cover.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
One more. Heard the Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week. Within the radio app, search her
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So Stafford, Joe Flacco, Aaron Rodgers, the old guys are
highly productive. I don't I don't think Aaron's The problem
actually is. Passer rating is like one, four one five
with Pittsburgh Mike Sando, senior NFL writer for the Athletic
Selector Pro Football Hall of Fame. There is you know,
it's an interesting thing going on between the old guys
(18:26):
flourishing Mike and the Darnold's and the Bakers sort of
getting a reboot with clever offensive coordinators. I said, a
couple of weeks ago, I saw this where there were
fifteen quarterbacks with passer rating over one hundred and it
was six two years ago.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Is some of it?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Maybe it's zone defense across the league, so it's it's
kind of throw to a spot.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I mean the quarterback play.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
When I watched Flaco do that last night and Aaron's
played well, it does feel like the golden era of
quarterback play.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Is there is there a reason why?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I do think it's easier to play the position from
colin But you know, those guys who have been around
a long time usually get rid of the ball. And
when we're talking about the worst quarterbacking in the league
this year, it's Justin Field's taking nine sacks, not because
his protection is terrible, because he doesn't know where to
go at the ball, and so these guys if you
look at Rogers this year, quickest time to throw for
him in his whole career. He's getting getting it out. Also,
(19:20):
we know, just bigger picture, these guys don't get hit
like they used to. You know, I think back in
the day some of the legends, you know, Kenny Stabler
shows up late to the game, he's been out all night.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
You know, he.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Has a terrible first half, and then he throws up
at halftime that's actually happened, and then goes out and
has a big second half. You can't play to longevity
the way those guys lived and played and say but
it was an extreme example in the Hall of Famer.
But now these guys are the best rest, the best travel.
You know, they know how to take care of their body,
and the rules are all set up. You never see
(19:53):
him get eear hold, you know. So it's really a
great setup for these guys to play when they're older.
What happened though the last few years is but a
lot of them retired, so you know, there's fewer of
them now than there were four or five years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You know, I said this generally, if the average NFL
franchise quarterback career is fifteen years. I always feel like
mid second chapter, I got a good read on you.
For years, I said, Dak is Kirk cousins with better mobility.
But Kirk never carried this kind of roster, and Dallas
isn't a great team. But no Ceede Lamb, no number
(20:29):
one tight end offensive line is still in a rebuild
every I mean, let's be honest, they play from behind.
You have to win by track meet. I honestly feel
like we're in chapter eleven or whatever year it is
for Dak, and I mean he Zach Martin, Tyron Smith,
Zeke Dak, all these changes, Ceedee Lamb. If he's upright,
(20:49):
he wins double digit games. I think I've undervalued Dak,
or maybe the intangibles, the tangibles caught up with the intangibles.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Maybe it's that.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Here's what happens so common by the end of the
year when they lose in the first round of the
playoffs or don't make it. That's what goes into our mind,
is like, hey, we discount Dak because he's had good
years before and it never leads him anywhere. And so
I think that's what happens.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
We have a.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Cowboy fatigue, a Dak fatigue. But you have to realize
the last time he played a full season, he was
second in MVP balloting. That was twenty twenty three. So
he's played really well here, has before, but I think
it has been a little bit of a different level
for him here maybe a little bit under McCarthy and
now under Schottenheimer.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, you know, I want to talk about some young quarterbacks.
So you know, Caleb's in year two, but Ben Johnson
has a pretty sophisticated system. There's a lot of new
guy Burden lutheror Burden's new, Loveland's new. They haven't used
him much. Ben Johnson's systems new, the staff is new,
and so I look at Caleb and I'm like, what
(21:54):
my eyes tell me this, Mike. He is playing within
structure more than last It's more of an intentional offense.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I can see the game plan.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
But I made this argument this week bow Knicks may
never throw a deep ball and Caleb may never be
really consistently accurate. I mean, that's what I see is
that he's playing with instructure to a degree, but he's
still struggling with I mean, Brady couldn't move. There are
no perfect quarterbacks. Where do you see Ben and Caleb
(22:25):
right now.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I think it's really good that it's been relatively quiet
and every week's not a referendum on it, because you know,
Ben Johnson came out with guns blazing. I mean he
was hard on their players and Caleb in the off
season and said things like we're watching our body language,
or he complained about burden being the training room, all
these types of things that it kind of got my
attention like, WHOA, this guy's kind of old school in
(22:49):
terms of how he treats guys. And I think that
can ultimately be good for Caleb Williams because you know,
he probably hasn't had that. He probably hasn't had somebody
he's always been the star, always come pretty easy for him,
and so now he's got this coach who's tough and
going to hold him to it. I think what we
want to see over time is, and I can't tell
fully yet, is how much are they setting up the
(23:11):
offense so Caleb can function with whatever his weaknesses are
versus how much can he really go in the direction
Jared goffwent and really really flourish as the.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
In the system.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
I think we've seen some signs that it is a
little bit more within the system. He still has a
really long time to throw. I mentioned that for Rogers.
You know, one extreme Caleb I think is still on
average is time to throw is maybe second or third
slowest in the league. So it's a mix. It's a process,
but I love that it's not every week he's in
the headlines.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I'm going to ask you about three young quarterbacks. Let's
start with bo Nicks. Last week in London, I thought
Sean was body language told me he was visibly frustrated
with bo Nicks.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Where are you on bow?
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, I think it's been a little underwhelming this year.
I was very high on what I saw last season,
especially late in the year, and all of the quarterback tiers.
Feedback I got, most of it was from people in
the league was wow, let's see where this can go.
With Sean Payton. I still kind of feel that way,
but it feels like it's been a little underwhelling for
a while. He was a little over the place, a
little undisciplined. You mentioned, you know, throwing the ball down
(24:22):
the field. He still has a really low yard per
attempt both years. His explosive play rate is pretty low,
so I guess I need to see how much he
can do beyond the system still, and that's fine. I
think he's a solid starting quarterback, but I wouldn't really
move him ahead of high tier three at this point,
would you.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
No, No, I think that's right Drake May. Now that's different.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
He's bigger, got a better deep ball arm like bo Nicks,
moves very well. Are you surprised he's this good this quickly?
With all those free agents, draft picks are playing brand
new staff. There's a lot of moving parts here. I mean,
this team from two hundred eighty million bucks on free agent,
you got five six new starters.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Are you surprised?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Very pleasantly surprised on Drake May. You know, I think
that there were positive signs as a rookie, but all
the discussion was well, kind of hard to judge him
because it was so bad around him. And I know
they spent a lot of money in fregency, but still
nine out of ten people in the league thought that's
a really bad roster coming into this year. You can't
buy a team in free agency normally, anyway, you can
make yourself a little bit better. So I think he
(25:27):
has shown, especially the last couple of weeks, some really
you know, higher level stuff. Some of the off schedule
stuff's been kind of special. He seems to have the
right makeup for all of this, so I'm really encouraged.
I think he's somebody that's probably ahead of where thought
he would be.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I think Jackson Dart feels a little better story than
player right now, but he plays with confidence. I think
the story is great. It's New York. I just saw
something last night when I was going to make my
picks that, you know, Russell Wilson actually was averaging more
yards of player than Jackson, but the story's way more
interesting with Jackson. Dark Where are you on Jackson?
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Yeah, well, Jackson's first start, the average like three point
six yards per play and everyone was super excited. So
I think he could definitely throw the ball. I do
like the energy. I do think he has a chance now,
I was he takes too much contact? Okay, I think
thirty seven percent of his plays, which is a really high.
I think justin Fields is the only one higher.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Are you know, like a.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Sack, a designed rush, getting hit after you throw the ball,
a scramble And that's okay if you're Lamar Jackson, and
you know how to wiggle on these hits, and you're
a really great runner who just doesn't get a let up.
This guy, you know, goes out there and just gets
hit in the chin. I mean, he's out there downfield
stiff arming, you know, somebody with his throwing hand, and
(26:49):
he's laughing about it after the game, and it's kind
of fun. But that's a lot of contact without rolling
with the punches. Right, He's taken shots and I think
that's not sustainable. So that's my one concern with him.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Okay, finally, let's wrap it up with this.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Did you ever think Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnald we're
going to be this good? No.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
I thought Baker Mayfield could be good, but I didn't
think he'd be this good because he was the number
one pick who got hurt, you know, and so I
always thought that there was something there. It was kind
of weird how they bailed on him so fast, but
Donald for sure seemed to be, you know, done. I
(27:33):
thought before he went to the forty nine ers, and
there were people that I know who had you been
with him before and liked him but just didn't see
this coming. So the first person that told me look
out for Donald was Randy Mueler. He's with the Saints now,
but we used to do a podcast together and he
saw him with San Francisco and was like, look out,
this is going to be a reclamation story. And it's
been totally right. But what he's doing in Seattle, I
(27:56):
think is another level ahead of what he did in Minnesota. Yes,
you know, and it's like, that's kind of surprising me.
You would have thought with this Seattle team, Hey, they
traded DK metcalf McDonald. Mike McDonald's got this defense going,
but they're gonna have to carry him. They don't even
have much of a run game. Their defense has been
up and down with injuries, and the one constant has
been Darnold looking like a Chier one quarterback. It's awesome
(28:19):
for that.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And also they're the second youngest offense. I said this
two weeks ago. Minnesota had Justin Jefferson, the great coach,
your left tackle, you know, tight end play Seattle's kids
and we didn't even know if js N was a
number one. Like this, that's walking into a new system
with the second youngest offense the Green Bay And I
(28:41):
mean that Baker game was one of the best quarterback
duels I've seen. It's like a Manning Brady game.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It totally was.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
It was, it was, It was really really incredible. I
just I feel like I'm totally betting on those guys.
As far as Baker, is there any quarterback in the
league whose guys are going to lay it on the
line more for him based on how he plays? I mean,
I want to play for him. You know, I've run
out there and take a huge hit over the middle
right now for that guy. Just the energy he brings.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, unique personality. Mike Santoisos, love your work at the
Athletic Senior Writer.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We love his stuff. Mike, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Hey, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, it's between the old guys hanging in there and
playing well Flacco, Rogers and Stafford, and the young guys
like Drake May hitting. You know, I said this this
next draft, if you had four guys in the first
round that could play, you get to a saturation point.
There's not that many teams. Jets need a quarterback, Raiders
(29:39):
need a quarterback. Cleveland needs an absolute quarterback. Now, the
Rams may draft one and sit in behind Stafford for
a year or two. But I mean the Jets, the Raiders,
and the Browns absolutely need a quarterback. But I mean
I watched Bryce Young. I'm like, you know what, Now,
they got him a number one receiver, they got a
little bit of a running game, they got him an
offensive coach.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
It's something I think some of the teams.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
That draft a quarterback don't necessarily need them now, but they,
you know, their quarterbacks getting older. Like Pittsburgh, you could
see them drafting a quarterback with Aaron Rodgers. Maybe not
first pick, second third pick. But there's only a handful
of team. I mean, Spencer Rattler New Orleans, why not.
I mean, they're not a super Bowl team this year
(30:21):
or next. Let's just let's just let's see if it meshes.
Let's just let him play. What if Spencer Rattler outplays
Caleb Williams this weekend? All it takes about three games.
I mean, Jackson Dart's first game, everybody fell in love
with him, and you're like, yeah, yards per play with
only listen, you can change the narrative with a bigger
road win or back to back late game wins. Young quarterback.
(30:43):
Everybody in the building's like, that's our guy,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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