October 24, 2025 • 39 mins
Colin Cowherd reacts to the stunning fallout from the FBI’s investigation into illegal sports betting and underground poker games that led to the arrests of Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups and Heat guard Terry Rozier. Colin breaks down what this means for the NBA and the league’s integrity
Then, Colin turns to the NFL to discuss the Minnesota Vikings’ latest loss to the Los Angeles Chargers — and why the team’s quarterback situation has turned into a full-blown crisis
Plus, NBA insider Rachel Nichols joins the show to share the latest details on the FBI’s investigation, what she’s hearing from around the league, and the biggest challenge the NBA is facing right now
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Here we go on a very very interesting and frenetic Friday.
It's the Herd wherever you may be.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
World Series starts tonight, blazing five in one hour. Whatever
platform you're watching or listening, Thank you for making us
part of your day. So yesterday, before the show, there
was the massive scandal eleven states, thirty people, the gambling
(01:02):
scandal heard around the NBA. Now the poker scandal. There's
far more people involved, but the NBA's let's be honest
about the NBA. It's a big global target, right And
I read everything over the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You can read.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I got up at four in the morning and I
read for two and a half hours. The interesting part
everybody's talking. Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier Damon Jones.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Part's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
He was an unpaid member of the Lakers staff under
Darvin Ham no longer is friends with Lebron James. I
don't believe Lebron knew anything. I'm sure of it, but
he was found to be texting accusations right that he
is saying, you know, bet Milwaukee beg tonight because Lebron
James had a bad Anklin was going to miss games.
And part of that text was and enough so d
(01:53):
Jones can eat too. Keep your eye on Damon Jones
and all of this. But I want to I want
to remind people of this, not to be a wet
blanket for all you fatalists. But if you go back
to the nineteen ninety three NBA Finals Phoenix Suns, Michael
Jordan and the Bulls, Bulls won and then Michael went
(02:13):
to baseball after the headline of that series wasn't mj
against Barkley. Headline of that series was Michael Jordan and
gambling talk. In fact, the series before when they faced
the Knicks, he admitted he was in Atlantic City the
night before one of the games, and Michael Jordan was
(02:34):
the face of the NBA. He was the most globally
recognized athlete in the world, and people said, oh, it
was just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, And the
NBA survived, and it doesn't have nearly the money cashe
or power. They just signed an eleven billion dollar deal.
(02:56):
They were in the hundreds of millions. Right now it's billions,
and it was Michael Jordan and now it's Damon Jones,
Terry Rozier, Chauncey Billups. So I think the NBA will survive.
You know, people say it's the tip of the iceberg,
and sometimes the tip of the iceberg is an ice.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Cube and not much more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Uncle Colin is going to impart some wisdom here briefly.
In eighteen seventy six, one of my favorite years, frankly,
the National League was formed in baseball. Eighteen seventy six,
the National League's formed. Do you know their first betting scandal.
Let's see one year later, eighteen seventy seven, Baseball's doing fine.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
They just signed a billion dollar contract too. By the way,
the FBI wasn't even around there.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The guy who founded it, Jadgar Hoover, wasn't born yet.
One year into the National League in eighteen seventy six.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I don't think fan Duel was around. I'm just guessing.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And you had a betting scandal, the mob athletes, bad judgment.
I mean, the craziest thing on all this. I didn't
know Lakosa and Nostro was still a thing. I honestly
thought it was maybe a name of a restaurant in
you know, somewhere in New York, Columbus, Columbia Circle or something.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I'm like, LaCOSA Nostra. I watch Goodfellas, It's over.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I saw the final episode, the final scene they went
to black that Tony Soprano survive.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
It's over right, all the wire tap, John Gottie. No,
apparently they were like eleven guys LaCOSA Nostra involved. So listen.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Sports leagues have rules, and sports leagues warn their athletes
and coaches and scouts and execs, and they warned them.
But the great thing about America is we have all
these freedoms and people have the right to ruin their life.
People make really bad choices. Chauncey Billups, Damon Jones, Terry Roseier.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Dummies, what are you doing? Give a one hundred million in earnings?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Again, keep your eye on Damon Jones, but go back
to eighteen seventy six in the National League a year
later gambling issue. Go back to Michael Jordan nineteen ninety three.
Face of basketball globally. It's not going anywhere. It's not
going anywhere. NBA is going to survive. Some say it's
(05:33):
the tip of the iceberg. Tim Donneghey told me his
was the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
It wasn't. I was told Michael Jordan was the tip
of the iceberg. Was it?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
What Colin gambling wasn't legal? Well, I actually like legal
gambling because it goes from the unregulated markets to now
regulated markets with transparency and rules. It should be noted
that Terry rose Eer issue was spotted within six hours.
(06:06):
The NBA knew about it. The NBA thought it was
apparently not worth pursuing much. The FBI did. But I
like all the transparency. I like legalized gambling. Vegas doesn't
want cheats, the NBA doesn't, the sports books don't, the
(06:27):
FBI doesn't. The NBA will survive, whether it's the tip
of the iceberg or not. So I'm watching the Chargers
last night play the Vikings. In my takeaway, by about
the third quarter is. They're actually opposites. The Chargers and
the Vikings are opposites, and not just because they're in
(06:49):
different conferences.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
The Chargers love their quarterback.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
All they hope is that his teammates around him can
occasionally stay healthy. But they know he's the north star,
he's the franchise. He is the bedrock for fifteen years.
He is worshiped in the building. The Vikings love all
their players around the quarterback, but have no idea who's
going to lead him the next ten years. They flirted
(07:15):
with Aaron Rodgers, they settled for Carson Wentz. They had
Daniel Jones in the building. They wanted to keep Darnold
but wouldn't pay for him. So whatever's happening with JJ McCarthy.
The messaging is weird and he's never available. So quarterbacks
stabilize a franchise. So last night, the Chargers finally get
(07:35):
Joe alt back.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
What a shocker.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
They can run on the left side, What a shocker.
The Blitz packages but the Vikings didn't work. So the
Vikings love their coach and their defensive coordinator and their
left tackle and their weapons, and the Vikings love everything
around the quarterback. But the franchise has, it's not stabilized
because they don't know what's going on with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Chargers are the opposite.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
They've got the most important part of this league quarterback
won coach two and they're both going to be there
for as long as they want to foreseeable future decade
if they want. Harbaugh may retire eight to nine, and
Jim's got great energy.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
They just can't keep anybody healthy for any extended period.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So as I watched last night, a thousand out of
a thousand times, I would take the Chargers situation. They're
making Justin Herbert throw more than any quarterback in the
league because that's what they.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Have right now.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And slowly but surely, Joe Alt came back and they
were good. But the Chargers know the truth in this
league is that Joe Burrow got to a super Bowl
with a battle line. Justin Herbert doesn't need both tackles.
He won't have Slater this year. Just give him Joe
Alt and they can blow out anybody at any time.
(08:50):
And here is Jim Harbaugh after the win.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Joe makes a huge difference. He's a great player, and
I would say in his leadership, getting eight healthy guys
out there is you don't been a challenge, but I
think we're gonna be better for it. I know that
because we're gonna have guys that are battle tested.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Just to give you a sense, I've always said, once
you get your head coach, quarterback's the most important person.
Left tackle is next than a pass rusher. Look at
this Joe Altz impact on the Chargers. When he's on
the field, they're four and oh if he starts and
finishes a game, and Herbert is a pro bowler. When
(09:35):
he's not, Herbert is okay and throwing fifty five times
a game with a passer rating in the eighties. So quarterback,
left tackle, somebody to rush the passer, and a weapon
or too. It's just that the Chargers have struggled outside
of the quarterback and the coach to have anybody available
(09:58):
on Thursdays or Sundays or Mondays. They did last night,
and look how easy it looks. J Rachel Nichols will
talk more. She's really really all dialed in on this
NBA stuff, which is I mean, I'm sure like you.
I listened to two podcasts this morning one last night.
Read everything I could. I've just I think one of
(10:22):
the things I've always loved is watching documentaries, and I've
watched over the years tennis scandals and NBA stuff, and
go back to the Black Sox scandal in baseball, is
that this is never going away. The mob gambling, poor
judgment athletes. I think it's part of the athlete spirit.
Some of them they just like juice, they like energy,
like being in the game, and poker games have been
(10:43):
going on forever. The Chauncey Billups accusations are he was
in on it, they were rigged, and he knew it.
If that is true, the sentence will be highly punitive.
But I do think we live in a time where
people on the internet are very fatalistic.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
No, not at all.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Everything's the worst thing ever. And the only advantage to
being sixty is you've seen everything happen four times. And
I don't think a lot of our audience remembers the
ninety three finals Sons MJ. The talk I can remember
at one point in David Stern's career Bob cost Us interviewed.
It got incredibly testy because Bob the journalist was pressing
(11:28):
him on the gambling stuff, and Stern, who was a
combative fighter, the late great David Stern, And I don't
know if it was that finals or not, but Bob
felt it was necessary and he was right to press
him on the gambling stuff. And remember that predates large,
you know the Supreme Court ruling. So I can remember
(11:49):
the interview with Costas and Stern whenever it was, and
it was highly combative. So the reality is this stuff
and that just think about that. It's hard to explain.
We didn't have all this social media stuff. Michael was
very private, so when you were hearing things about Michael,
a lot of it was innuendu innuendo. Michael acknowledged he
(12:09):
was in Atlantic City during the Knick series before the
Sun's Bulls finals.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Imagine that today.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
Yeah, well that's the problem. Like you said, satalistic. A
lot of these people on the internet today are like,
this is absolutely reprehensible. The integrity of the league is compromised.
That is so overblown it's not even funny, Like this
is not going to change anything.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Last night's games pretty incredible, Warriors, Nuggets go overtime, Like
this is an Is this an isolated incident, Colin.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Or do you think this is rampant throughout the I
think it's I think the poker games have been going
on in New York City, especially forever. By the way,
thank you staff. The costest interview was during the ninety
three finals, So yeah, I mean Bob was centerpiece on that,
and it was very appropriate. It was Big Jay journalism.
(12:57):
That's before we started handing out Big JA Journalism awards.
Would have certainly won. And it was a poignant, well crafted,
spirited debate and appropriate for the time. So I just
think I've just lived through all of this stuff. And again,
I covered UNLB basketball when one morning the Las Vegas
(13:20):
Review Journal had a picture of Richard the Fixer Perry
in a hot tub with David Butler, Moses Gurry, Anderson
Hunt for the record. Great guys, I mean, the easiest,
most fun group of young athletes to ever cover, especially
Scurry and Anderson Hunt.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
And so I've been around this forever.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
What about Calvin Ridley a year or two ago betting
in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
They have to suspend him like this happens everywhere. Let's
not freak out, Colin.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
Would you agree that it feels like if you already
did not like the NBA, you're going all in bassably.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
And if you like the NBA, you're like, Okay, Chauncey Billups.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
If he's going and leaking information at poker games, yeah
he's an idiot.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
He's going to be done.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
But if he's just talking about it, not thinking that
these guys are actionable, he's probably gonna skate. I don't
know what's gonna happen, but I think you and I agree,
Chauncea Phillips.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Probably not gonna be coaching this year for Portland.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
No, I think Chauncey, according to the accusations, is going
to be in a bit of trouble. I do think
Damon Jones is the one to keep your eye on.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
He's not even in the league now, I don't think right.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
He was a bounce around guy, very well liked. He
was friends with Lebron and again they're gonna be people.
I can assure you Lebron's not involved in this stuff.
Of course he's of course not, But I mean that
doesn't mean you can't have a friend.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Well, Damon Jones is texting gamblers, you know, get d
Jones paid or whatever?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
This?
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Right, Like, come on, it's amateur hour, dude, You're dumb.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
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Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's me Rob Parker.
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(15:13):
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Speaker 1 (15:20):
Ah Right, Hour two live in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It's the hurt, Big, Big weekend.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I think it's going to be an upset weekend in
college football. Upset weekend in college football.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
It's a Herd.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Thanks for watching, Appreciate it. Rachel Nichols in fifteen minutes.
What a what a wild, wacky world we live in.
I do think the NBA is going to be fine,
people will still watch it. I think incidents like the
(16:00):
Damon Jones, Chauncey billup stuff is there are rogued. Tim
Donneghee nineteen seventies, Boston College, Henry Hill, Richie the fixer Perry.
You can't, you can't. I mean this is not analogous,
but you know, it's like not everything is a large
group of people. Sometimes they always talk about this insecurity,
(16:23):
the lone gunman, the lone wolf who is disconnected. He's
a loaner. Nobody, FBI can't predict that stuff, CIA can't
predict that stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
That's what you always worry about security.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
For government officials, CEOs.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
It's a rando.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's a lone wolf who's kind of a loaner and
not connected. So this idea that everything is this big honeycomb,
it's this big net all connected, I just don't believe
that to be true. I mean, I've been betting on
sports forever. I can bet ten dollars anytime and that's it.
But I can also have a glass of champagne celebrating
and that's it because it gives me a headache after one.
(17:03):
So I don't think this is a big net of
NBA players, mob gambling athletes. Bad judgment been around since
the Romans and the Chariot races, and it's going to continue. Well,
I've had a couple of good weeks. I've been on
a heater four and one last week, four and one
(17:26):
this week. I do not like taking favorites and I
do not like the lines this week at all. Here's
our Blazing five.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Let's blaze it up, fired Up. It's Collins Blazon five,
Fars and Ravens.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
My favorite pick, Ravens. Lamar is backed minus six. Lamar returns.
Ravens average thirty three a game and six and a
half yards per play in the four games this year
with Lamar Jackson, and it's a must win game total
urgency for the franchise. Lamar has eaten the NFC for
lunch twenty four to three in his career. Even better
(18:07):
at home, the Bears on the road defense isn't as good.
Caleb Williams, by the way, last three games, completion percentage
has dipped to fifty eight point seven percent, and right
now the Bears defense can make splash plays and takeaways,
but it's allowing six point two yards per.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Play against Lamar.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Lamar Jackson's gonna eat favorite pick of the weekend, Ravens
minus six. They win twenty eight to twenty one, and
it won't feel that close. Browns hit Patriots another big favorite.
I like New England at home minus seven. Why because
four straight wins and they're averaging thirty a game during
those wins, and their defense is great against the run,
(18:50):
meaning Dylan Gabriel will have to pass to beat Drake
May and the Patriots in Brable. I don't see it happening.
Cleveland's defense not good in the road. In fact, the
Browns are zero and three on the road and they
have the twenty eight ranked rush offense. So Dylan Gabriel
is gonna have to be really good to keep up
(19:12):
and beat Drake May, who has been outstanding since Week two.
I don't think it's happening. I like the Patriots to
win by ten, twenty eight to seventeen.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
That's eleven. Dolphins at Felcons.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I like the over forty four and a half points.
I've been hot on overs. Falcons are averaging twenty six
a game and Michael Pennix at home has a one
zero three passer rating. But they also have a terrible
red zone defense. If Miami threatens, Miami should do well
and eat in the red zone. But I like Atlanta
(19:47):
at home to score points. Jamak talked about this fast track.
They're very good. The Dolphins' opponents have combined. Dolphins and
their opponents have combined for forty five plus points in
five of the last six games.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
On the overrun. Here's forty five and a half.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Their defense allows big, big plays in Atlanta at home
delivers big plays. The Dolphins defense not good. Atlanta's offense
at home very good. Take the over forty four and
a half points. Twenty eight, twenty one, thirty twenty four.
(20:22):
My bad of Falcons win forty nine ers at Texans.
This is a late ad. There are concerns about the
Texans health at wide receiver, but this offense for the Texans,
it's the number three scoring offense since Week four, and
their defense has been great all season. Sam Darnold and
(20:42):
Seattle at home last week really struggled with this defense.
So their defense is especially good at clamping down on
running backs and their receiving yards.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And the Niners right.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Now are living off McCaffrey running and McCaffrey receiving. And
the Niners are three and seven after a win the
last two seasons. So the Texans defense is great. The
Niners are still beat up. I think it's a Choppie game.
I'm gonna take the Texans twenty seven to twenty three,
(21:21):
Cowboys and Broncos. Finally, Denver minus three at home, I
like it. Take the Broncos three and zero at home.
Won eight straight home games dating back to last year,
and seven of those eight have been by eight plus points.
Bo Knicks won eight straight games at home. He's a
(21:44):
better home quarterback. The Cowboys. Listen, they beat the Jets,
the Giants and the Commanders, and Jaden Daniels wasn't healthy.
They've been one and three on the road. They're not
a great road team. And they have an atrocious third
down defense that will keep the ball away from Dak
and they have a big play defense, so the Broncos
are gonna.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Win time of possession.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
The Broncos, who really need to hit on big plays,
have finally found a defense that surrenders big plays. So
I like Denver to win, and I like Denver to
cover the spread. Twenty eight twenty four Broncos wins. So
in a review, I like favorites this week, I generally
(22:30):
don't love them. Favorite bet Ravens minus six at home,
Lamar returns Patriots minus seven at home, Cleveland Dylan Gabriel
will have to throw to win, and I don't see it.
Take the over Atlanta at home scores and the Dolphins
defense is a mess. Take the over. I'm gonna take
(22:52):
the Texans at home minus one and a half. It's
my least favorite pick, but their defense is great, and
the Niners have the mtations offensively and Denver at home
to win and cover. I think that's a fun game.
I think it's a great watch. But Denver, they are
(23:12):
really really seeking the big play, and this is the
defense that does allow the big play. The Cowboys couldn't
say the last time I took three favors generally don't
like doing that. It's a wonky week for numbers now
I did not. I did not take the Steelers because
the number now is down to three, not three and
(23:34):
a half. So the hook was the key the places
I watched it's down to three. I think it's a
really good game, and it's funny Aaron's facing at home
facing the Packers again, and I was thinking about the
memories of him in Green Bay. So he won four MVPs.
He was not a great playoff quarterback eleven and ten
far was also about five hundred, so is Jordan Love.
(23:56):
So what I always think is interesting about Green Bay
remember it more fondly than reality because it was so
esthetically beautiful. I've said this, Dan Marino gets to a
super Bowl year two, never gets back, but we remember
Marino so fondly because it was such a beautiful eye
pleasing style. Same with Aaron. Aaron's last twelve years in
(24:18):
Green Bay. So he wins early in his career and
we think it's going to be a decade of dominance.
His last twelve seasons after that in Green Bay he
was seven and nine in the playoffs and lost multiple
times as a favorite. In fact, those nine losses his
last twelve years in Green Bay, and I looked us
(24:40):
up this morning, that was the most playoff losses by
any team in that stretch. Right, So Mahomes has been
to five Super Bowls and Manning to four, and Britty
was collecting rings and those are peers, right, It's just funny.
In Aaron he replaces Farv and we're like, oh, my god,
is he better than far And my bet was, oh, absolutely,
(25:02):
And they end up both being pretty to be honest
with you, being pretty average in the playoffs despite a
well run organization, good offensive lines, but farv I mean
one thing, all back Aaron on Aaron did not have
a lot of great defenses in Green Bay. And then
he goes to the Jets and they fire Sola and
(25:23):
that defense is no good. Then he goes to Tomlin
Pittsburgh and that defense.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Is no good.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
And the one thing Bradio has had really good defenses
and the one thing Maholmes has now great defenses. So
to defend Aaron is that you look at his playoff
record and you're like, ah, he wanted.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
A great defense.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Do you know the year he had a great defense
was the year he won a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Rachel Nichols around the corner. It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Well. Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since the
early nineties. Fox Sports NBA analyst Rachel Nichols is now
joining us on the show. So you know, there's a
lot to unpack. I think I listened to three to
four total podcasts this morning. Last night like you, you
cover this league regularly, so your feet on the ground.
(26:26):
Let's talk about the difference between sort of the active
and the passive involvement in these gambling operations. A lot
of it's squawk talk and a lot of its reality.
What's the difference here?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You see?
Speaker 8 (26:39):
Well, there's two kind of categories of this, right, so
we know for sure that they're accusing Terry Rogier of
being active, right that he specifically went to go throw
his appearance in the game. He walked off the court early,
he told people bet the under, and they're accusing him
of sitting and counting the money gained from this with
his friend. A week later, Jante Porter has already ignowed
(27:00):
she he has played guilty to being active, to throwing
his participation in a game and getting the under bet.
And he is a waiting sentencing on that. And then
you have guys who it's not really clear, right. Chauncey
Billups is named in both sides of this suit as saying, oh,
he told an associate that a bunch of guys, including
a guy who matches Damian Lillard's description, will be sitting
(27:22):
that night, and that was used to go gamble. Now
did he just tell someone because he was telling a friend,
or did he do it on purpose to get them
to say, Hey, throw me a little cash, I'll bet
the under Damon Jones, we know, is accused of being
active in this situation, telling someone that Lebron James was
going to be sitting and then saying, hey, bet for
(27:43):
me and then pay me my money. We're talking about
twenty five hundred dollars apparently for giving that information, according
to the federal government.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
So there's kind of two sides of this.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
Chauncey Billups attorney, has come out very strongly and said
he would never do this on purpose. He would never
risk his career or his family. You know, his position
as a Hall of Famer or a coach in this league.
You have to assume that his defense is going to be, Yeah,
I showed up at these poker games. They paid me
to be in these poker games, but I didn't know
they were rigged. We're just going to have to soar
through and find out did they know who knew?
Speaker 9 (28:16):
And is there a difference.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Between the guys who actively participated and the guys who
may have been around people they should not have been around,
And how much did they know it? Kind of though
for the NBA doesn't matter that much how these cases
shake out, because they now have to deal with the
fact that they have two active investigations. Now they've got
in the Clipper situation, They've got an owner who is
(28:38):
being investigated for saying, well, I didn't know this was
going on, but we have a sponsor who was paying
one of our players twenty eight million dollars to apparently
do nothing. You have a coach now being investigated, you
have players being investigated, and you have ex players being investigated.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
That is a lot for one league. Colin, and I
agree with you.
Speaker 8 (28:57):
The NBA has been around for nearly eighty years. The
NBA isn't going anywhere. These scandals are not going to
take down the leak.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
But it is an.
Speaker 8 (29:04):
Issue with if you say crime right in general, in
a neighborhood, crime is going to happen. You're never going
to have zero crime, but you can't have too much
crime right otherwise people won't want to come to that neighborhood.
And that is what the NBA is having to deal
with right now. You have so many different levels of
the game, people being accused of mal Feesi's here.
Speaker 9 (29:21):
That is a lot.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So the NBA did their own investigation on Johntay Porter
and Terry Rozier, and then the FBI did their investigation.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
How do they differ.
Speaker 8 (29:31):
Well, look, the NBA doesn't have subpoena power, so I
don't blame the NBA at all for that.
Speaker 9 (29:36):
They can only do so much.
Speaker 8 (29:37):
They can only get people to talk to them who
want to talk to them. They can't put guys up
and say, hey, we're going to put you in jail
if you don't tell us this. So it is a
very different situation. It's why the NBA has been cooperating
with the government on these investigations.
Speaker 9 (29:50):
But again, the optics.
Speaker 8 (29:52):
Of it are difficult, and it is not the league's fault,
but it is the league's problem when they clear a
guy and then suddenly now he's facing time.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
The damon Jones stuff to me is because I know
I don't know Lebron per se. I've talked to Lebron
for twenty minutes. Ohways, very friendly. I know people in
his circle very well. Again, if I've been critical of Lebron,
they don't reach out. They understand the game. I always
thought he surrounded himself with the smartest guys in the league,
because I think Lebron's really bright, good businessman, bright guy.
(30:25):
The Damon Jones was close to Lebron. He was on
a Laker team, unpaid, part of Darvinham's staff, and so,
you know, I mean, Damon was a well liked guy.
I think I've talked I don't know if I've talked
to him, but Damon Jones was kind of well liked.
Lebron liked him. I'm not sure if he was in
his circle, but you know, they hung out, they like
each other. There is a story that Damon they go
(30:46):
to Milwaukee and Lebron's banged up and he tells people, Hey,
I want to eat here. It is that one troubles
me because it involves the face of the league and
the Lake. If I had to rank these in order,
is that is that the chance or the Damon one
the league is truly frightened about.
Speaker 8 (31:07):
Well, the Damon one is the kind of thing that
could spin out and have future repercussions. Right, because Damon
Jones was very close to Lebron. I'm not saying at
all that Lebron was involved in this. Nobody is saying
Lebron was involved in this, but he was close to
a lot of big names in this league. Damon Jones
is knocked around the league for a long time. He
was on a lot of different teams. He has close
relationships with a lot of guys. He had inside information
(31:27):
on a lot of different guys, and he was clearly
according to the federal government, he is alleged to be
a very active participant in this knowing what he was doing.
So if that is indeed the case, and he did
it with several other guys, we had Cash Pttel, the
director of the FBI, go on several television shows yesterday
after that press conference and say more is coming. He said,
(31:48):
this is just the beginning. So I got to believe him.
He knows what the FBI is investigating, and that is
what the league has to be concerned about.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
The Chauncey Billups thing is just harder at my brain around.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Uh he.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I initially thought he was in the poker side of it,
which is Leakosa Nostra. I don't know if La Cosa
Nostra is involved in the NBA part. They are involved
heavily in the poker and for the record, I listened
to two podcasts last night, one from somebody who covers
the Mob for a living, and he said, there are
Mob games all over New York tonight. Yeah, it's just
(32:23):
you know, you know New York better than I do.
But like that's just the thing he was naming, you know,
on Lexington Avenue, there's a I mean, he was naming
the areas that I'm like, Okay, so and NBA players
have played cards forever. It's kind of part of the culture.
Do you think the league was caught off guard with
John C.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Billups?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I mean, players have done this in all sports that
The Chauncey one for me is whoa a coach?
Speaker 3 (32:49):
How is that viewed? Are you shocked by that?
Speaker 8 (32:52):
I was very shocked by it because Johncey is extremely
well liked around the league. He's known as a mentor,
a leader, a good guy.
Speaker 9 (32:59):
You know.
Speaker 8 (32:59):
The reason why he is held in such high esteem
isn't because he was such an elite. He's not the
leader in the NBA in points ever, He's not like
Lebron James. He's known as being one of the best
leader of men in the NBA, and here he is
being caught up in a scandal that at the very
least shows incredible bad judgment and according to the FBI,
shows a lot worse than that. And when you talk
(33:20):
about sort of the back and forth and why these
two cases are connected.
Speaker 9 (33:24):
It's because a lot of the same guys are involved.
Speaker 8 (33:26):
In the illegal poker game as in the betting, and
that is where the crossover is and why Chauncey is
also named in the illegal betting part but not indicted
in that part because he was with those guys, but
not necessarily, according to the FBI, purposely.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
Giving information to them.
Speaker 8 (33:41):
He just did give information to whether he knew or
not it was being used to bet.
Speaker 9 (33:45):
But this is going to continue to.
Speaker 8 (33:47):
Be a problem, and the NBA has to hope that
what happens is is that guys understand they could go
to jail for this, and once that realization sets in,
the hope is that players, coaches, anyone involved with the league.
Speaker 9 (34:00):
Just stops messing with this. But the NBA is in a.
Speaker 8 (34:02):
Little bit of a tough position, as are every sports
league now the way legalized betting is in these betting companies.
The NBA was estimated to make around one hundred and
seventy million dollars directly.
Speaker 9 (34:13):
From betting companies.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
It has two official relationships and other relationships with fifteen
other betting companies. Then you talk about fan engagement, because betting,
as we know, the whole point is it makes people
watch games they might not otherwise rutch, right, Uh, you
know this is a lopsided game, but I got to
bet on it.
Speaker 9 (34:29):
I mean, it's fantasy football too. Why do we watch
so many football games we might not otherwise care about?
Speaker 8 (34:34):
Right, So the engagement factor is also huge, and that's
estimated to be two or three hundred million dollars extra
a year pouring into the league fan engagement on top
of one hundred and seventy million dollars, so it really
has become an integral part of the league's income system.
So it's very hard to just walk away from all
of this. But it's also hard to think about the
fact that you have these games going on and right
(34:56):
underneath on the ticker is hey bet the third quarter?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Bet?
Speaker 9 (34:59):
What's going on here? Yesterday?
Speaker 8 (35:01):
We had several television networks across covering this, people discussing
it just like you and I, And underneath on the
ticker is go bet. Right Sports networks who have their
own sports book. ESPN has its own sports book. And
while they were discussing this on the Morning Show, it
said bet ESPN underneath. So this is so ingrained and
so available in a way. It wasn't twenty years ago.
(35:24):
You're talking about Michael Jordan going to Atlantic City. He
had to go to Atlantic City. You don't have to
do that anymore. And every single person involved with the
NBA just has to send a text, and it's a
much different game.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Well, you know, David Stern was really anti gambling. Adam
Silver was the opposite. Stern eventually came around and realized
the value. And I am a believer in legalized sports
gambling because it's a regulated market. The Terry Rose ear stuff, Rachel,
I'm sure you know this. They knew instantly. I mean
they knew within hours something was up.
Speaker 9 (35:55):
I cut off betting for the rest of the night.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, and I do worry about Brian Windhorse said the
league knew as a fake and injury took them out
of games. Was the NBA strong enough? Barkley talked about
that last night. So I am four and I've worked
in Vegas like I am for regulation. Remember it was
Vegas that told the NBA about Tim Donneghey, yeah right,
(36:17):
they don't want to The margins are thin. They don't
want any of this. I'll just throw this at you
when you hear tip of the iceberg. I tend to
think it's more rogue stuff. I think most players get.
Let me ask you this, when you go to cover
the NBA, do you see signage? Do you see I mean,
(36:40):
obviously these players are told you can't talk about injuries
to non locker room people, Like, do you have a
sense when you go cover games that it's understood the
line not be crossed with gambling and non insiders.
Speaker 8 (36:55):
I think it's understood that you don't do what Damon
Jones did, which was techt someone who is a known
gambling and associate and say, hey, bet the under because
or bet against the Lakers because Lebron isn't playing tonight.
I think players know that is against the rules. However,
there is a gray area and this is hard to
regulate and it's hard to even manage. If you're a player,
(37:16):
you tell a buddy, eh, I'm frustrated I'm not playing tonight.
That information is not out there yet, that buddy doesn't
work for the NBA. He can go place a bet
or tell other people to place a bet.
Speaker 9 (37:26):
Based on that information. And that's always going to happen.
Speaker 8 (37:29):
And it becomes even more complicated once we get into
college basketball and college sports, because the NCAA just a
couple days ago said that its players can now bet
on professional sports in the sport that they play. So
what if you're a player who is a junior or
senior who has a buddy in the NBA, who was
on your team, who was a teammate just a year
or two ago, who just in a casual conversation says, ugh,
(37:50):
I can't play tonight. No one knows that yet, but
I can't play. Oh my knee's bothering me. Now that
kid in college can go bet on that inside information.
Speaker 9 (37:58):
This just gets very dangerous.
Speaker 8 (38:00):
And sticky, and it is difficult when you say, is
it the tip of the iceberg or is it an
ice cube? As you said earlier in the show, which
I think is.
Speaker 9 (38:07):
A great analogy.
Speaker 8 (38:08):
I think it might be an iceberg, only because there
are so many different places this could crop up, all
across the NBA, all across other sports, all across college sports. Now,
so I think we're going to see a lot of
different places for this to happen, and you just have
to hope again, as players see, you can go to jail.
Speaker 9 (38:25):
Your entire life can be ruined over this.
Speaker 8 (38:27):
It is not worth it and you get into the
addiction side of it too, which is override some people's judgment.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, it did.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
By the way, an NBA player is liable, and they
have been told this. If they talk about an injury
to a non team employee, they are lible. They could
say it to a friend. You can't. So I mean
every NBA player in every room they walk into is
the biggest star, right, and people come up to them
(38:55):
and they just I mean you almost have to hide
before a game and stay off your f I mean
really you really do as a as a player. So
I do have some sympathy there. Rachel Nichols, great stuff
as always. On an ongoing investigation and we'll just we'll
keep everybody updated.
Speaker 9 (39:13):
Thank you, Rach, thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, it's it's it's just not yeah, if you just
say and I thought about this. I was talking to
Danny Parkins about this on a pod last night and
and he kind of theorized, he said, what if you
couldn't bet unders, you could only bet over. You can't
bet this guy will score less this guy. Look, if
a guy scores more, it's good for everybody, right, the player,
(39:36):
the team, the guy. But you can't bet unders. But
I don't believe you should eliminate prop bets because then
it goes to the unregulated market and it's not supervised.
I want it supervised, so you know, you know, answers
Areno is easy with this stuff.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Here we go on a very very interesting and frenetic Friday.
It's the Herd wherever you may be.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
World Series starts tonight, blazing five in one hour. Whatever
platform you're watching or listening, Thank you for making us
part of your day. So yesterday, before the show, there
was the massive scandal eleven states, thirty people, the gambling
(01:02):
scandal heard around the NBA. Now the poker scandal. There's
far more people involved, but the NBA's let's be honest
about the NBA. It's a big global target, right And
I read everything over the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You can read.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I got up at four in the morning and I
read for two and a half hours. The interesting part
everybody's talking. Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier Damon Jones.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Part's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
He was an unpaid member of the Lakers staff under
Darvin Ham no longer is friends with Lebron James. I
don't believe Lebron knew anything. I'm sure of it, but
he was found to be texting accusations right that he
is saying, you know, bet Milwaukee beg tonight because Lebron
James had a bad Anklin was going to miss games.
And part of that text was and enough so d
(01:53):
Jones can eat too. Keep your eye on Damon Jones
and all of this. But I want to I want
to remind people of this, not to be a wet
blanket for all you fatalists. But if you go back
to the nineteen ninety three NBA Finals Phoenix Suns, Michael
Jordan and the Bulls, Bulls won and then Michael went
(02:13):
to baseball after the headline of that series wasn't mj
against Barkley. Headline of that series was Michael Jordan and
gambling talk. In fact, the series before when they faced
the Knicks, he admitted he was in Atlantic City the
night before one of the games, and Michael Jordan was
(02:34):
the face of the NBA. He was the most globally
recognized athlete in the world, and people said, oh, it
was just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, And the
NBA survived, and it doesn't have nearly the money cashe
or power. They just signed an eleven billion dollar deal.
(02:56):
They were in the hundreds of millions. Right now it's billions,
and it was Michael Jordan and now it's Damon Jones,
Terry Rozier, Chauncey Billups. So I think the NBA will survive.
You know, people say it's the tip of the iceberg,
and sometimes the tip of the iceberg is an ice.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Cube and not much more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Uncle Colin is going to impart some wisdom here briefly.
In eighteen seventy six, one of my favorite years, frankly,
the National League was formed in baseball. Eighteen seventy six,
the National League's formed. Do you know their first betting scandal.
Let's see one year later, eighteen seventy seven, Baseball's doing fine.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
They just signed a billion dollar contract too. By the way,
the FBI wasn't even around there.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The guy who founded it, Jadgar Hoover, wasn't born yet.
One year into the National League in eighteen seventy six.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I don't think fan Duel was around. I'm just guessing.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
And you had a betting scandal, the mob athletes, bad judgment.
I mean, the craziest thing on all this. I didn't
know Lakosa and Nostro was still a thing. I honestly
thought it was maybe a name of a restaurant in
you know, somewhere in New York, Columbus, Columbia Circle or something.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I'm like, LaCOSA Nostra. I watch Goodfellas, It's over.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I saw the final episode, the final scene they went
to black that Tony Soprano survive.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
It's over right, all the wire tap, John Gottie. No,
apparently they were like eleven guys LaCOSA Nostra involved. So listen.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Sports leagues have rules, and sports leagues warn their athletes
and coaches and scouts and execs, and they warned them.
But the great thing about America is we have all
these freedoms and people have the right to ruin their life.
People make really bad choices. Chauncey Billups, Damon Jones, Terry Roseier.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Dummies, what are you doing? Give a one hundred million in earnings?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Again, keep your eye on Damon Jones, but go back
to eighteen seventy six in the National League a year
later gambling issue. Go back to Michael Jordan nineteen ninety three.
Face of basketball globally. It's not going anywhere. It's not
going anywhere. NBA is going to survive. Some say it's
(05:33):
the tip of the iceberg. Tim Donneghey told me his
was the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
It wasn't. I was told Michael Jordan was the tip
of the iceberg. Was it?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
What Colin gambling wasn't legal? Well, I actually like legal
gambling because it goes from the unregulated markets to now
regulated markets with transparency and rules. It should be noted
that Terry rose Eer issue was spotted within six hours.
(06:06):
The NBA knew about it. The NBA thought it was
apparently not worth pursuing much. The FBI did. But I
like all the transparency. I like legalized gambling. Vegas doesn't
want cheats, the NBA doesn't, the sports books don't, the
(06:27):
FBI doesn't. The NBA will survive, whether it's the tip
of the iceberg or not. So I'm watching the Chargers
last night play the Vikings. In my takeaway, by about
the third quarter is. They're actually opposites. The Chargers and
the Vikings are opposites, and not just because they're in
(06:49):
different conferences.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
The Chargers love their quarterback.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
All they hope is that his teammates around him can
occasionally stay healthy. But they know he's the north star,
he's the franchise. He is the bedrock for fifteen years.
He is worshiped in the building. The Vikings love all
their players around the quarterback, but have no idea who's
going to lead him the next ten years. They flirted
(07:15):
with Aaron Rodgers, they settled for Carson Wentz. They had
Daniel Jones in the building. They wanted to keep Darnold
but wouldn't pay for him. So whatever's happening with JJ McCarthy.
The messaging is weird and he's never available. So quarterbacks
stabilize a franchise. So last night, the Chargers finally get
(07:35):
Joe alt back.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
What a shocker.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
They can run on the left side, What a shocker.
The Blitz packages but the Vikings didn't work. So the
Vikings love their coach and their defensive coordinator and their
left tackle and their weapons, and the Vikings love everything
around the quarterback. But the franchise has, it's not stabilized
because they don't know what's going on with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Chargers are the opposite.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
They've got the most important part of this league quarterback
won coach two and they're both going to be there
for as long as they want to foreseeable future decade
if they want. Harbaugh may retire eight to nine, and
Jim's got great energy.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
They just can't keep anybody healthy for any extended period.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So as I watched last night, a thousand out of
a thousand times, I would take the Chargers situation. They're
making Justin Herbert throw more than any quarterback in the
league because that's what they.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Have right now.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And slowly but surely, Joe Alt came back and they
were good. But the Chargers know the truth in this
league is that Joe Burrow got to a super Bowl
with a battle line. Justin Herbert doesn't need both tackles.
He won't have Slater this year. Just give him Joe
Alt and they can blow out anybody at any time.
(08:50):
And here is Jim Harbaugh after the win.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Joe makes a huge difference. He's a great player, and
I would say in his leadership, getting eight healthy guys
out there is you don't been a challenge, but I
think we're gonna be better for it. I know that
because we're gonna have guys that are battle tested.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Just to give you a sense, I've always said, once
you get your head coach, quarterback's the most important person.
Left tackle is next than a pass rusher. Look at
this Joe Altz impact on the Chargers. When he's on
the field, they're four and oh if he starts and
finishes a game, and Herbert is a pro bowler. When
(09:35):
he's not, Herbert is okay and throwing fifty five times
a game with a passer rating in the eighties. So quarterback,
left tackle, somebody to rush the passer, and a weapon
or too. It's just that the Chargers have struggled outside
of the quarterback and the coach to have anybody available
(09:58):
on Thursdays or Sundays or Mondays. They did last night,
and look how easy it looks. J Rachel Nichols will
talk more. She's really really all dialed in on this
NBA stuff, which is I mean, I'm sure like you.
I listened to two podcasts this morning one last night.
Read everything I could. I've just I think one of
(10:22):
the things I've always loved is watching documentaries, and I've
watched over the years tennis scandals and NBA stuff, and
go back to the Black Sox scandal in baseball, is
that this is never going away. The mob gambling, poor
judgment athletes. I think it's part of the athlete spirit.
Some of them they just like juice, they like energy,
like being in the game, and poker games have been
(10:43):
going on forever. The Chauncey Billups accusations are he was
in on it, they were rigged, and he knew it.
If that is true, the sentence will be highly punitive.
But I do think we live in a time where
people on the internet are very fatalistic.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
No, not at all.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Everything's the worst thing ever. And the only advantage to
being sixty is you've seen everything happen four times. And
I don't think a lot of our audience remembers the
ninety three finals Sons MJ. The talk I can remember
at one point in David Stern's career Bob cost Us interviewed.
It got incredibly testy because Bob the journalist was pressing
(11:28):
him on the gambling stuff, and Stern, who was a
combative fighter, the late great David Stern, And I don't
know if it was that finals or not, but Bob
felt it was necessary and he was right to press
him on the gambling stuff. And remember that predates large,
you know the Supreme Court ruling. So I can remember
(11:49):
the interview with Costas and Stern whenever it was, and
it was highly combative. So the reality is this stuff
and that just think about that. It's hard to explain.
We didn't have all this social media stuff. Michael was
very private, so when you were hearing things about Michael,
a lot of it was innuendu innuendo. Michael acknowledged he
(12:09):
was in Atlantic City during the Knick series before the
Sun's Bulls finals.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Imagine that today.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
Yeah, well that's the problem. Like you said, satalistic. A
lot of these people on the internet today are like,
this is absolutely reprehensible. The integrity of the league is compromised.
That is so overblown it's not even funny, Like this
is not going to change anything.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Last night's games pretty incredible, Warriors, Nuggets go overtime, Like
this is an Is this an isolated incident, Colin.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Or do you think this is rampant throughout the I
think it's I think the poker games have been going
on in New York City, especially forever. By the way,
thank you staff. The costest interview was during the ninety
three finals, So yeah, I mean Bob was centerpiece on that,
and it was very appropriate. It was Big Jay journalism.
(12:57):
That's before we started handing out Big JA Journalism awards.
Would have certainly won. And it was a poignant, well crafted,
spirited debate and appropriate for the time. So I just
think I've just lived through all of this stuff. And again,
I covered UNLB basketball when one morning the Las Vegas
(13:20):
Review Journal had a picture of Richard the Fixer Perry
in a hot tub with David Butler, Moses Gurry, Anderson
Hunt for the record. Great guys, I mean, the easiest,
most fun group of young athletes to ever cover, especially
Scurry and Anderson Hunt.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
And so I've been around this forever.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
What about Calvin Ridley a year or two ago betting
in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
They have to suspend him like this happens everywhere. Let's
not freak out, Colin.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
Would you agree that it feels like if you already
did not like the NBA, you're going all in bassably.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
And if you like the NBA, you're like, Okay, Chauncey Billups.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
If he's going and leaking information at poker games, yeah
he's an idiot.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
He's going to be done.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
But if he's just talking about it, not thinking that
these guys are actionable, he's probably gonna skate. I don't
know what's gonna happen, but I think you and I agree,
Chauncea Phillips.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Probably not gonna be coaching this year for Portland.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
No, I think Chauncey, according to the accusations, is going
to be in a bit of trouble. I do think
Damon Jones is the one to keep your eye on.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
He's not even in the league now, I don't think right.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
He was a bounce around guy, very well liked. He
was friends with Lebron and again they're gonna be people.
I can assure you Lebron's not involved in this stuff.
Of course he's of course not, But I mean that
doesn't mean you can't have a friend.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Well, Damon Jones is texting gamblers, you know, get d
Jones paid or whatever?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
This?
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Right, Like, come on, it's amateur hour, dude, You're dumb.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
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Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's me Rob Parker.
Speaker 7 (14:51):
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker for
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(15:13):
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Speaker 1 (15:20):
Ah Right, Hour two live in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It's the hurt, Big, Big weekend.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I think it's going to be an upset weekend in
college football. Upset weekend in college football.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
It's a Herd.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Thanks for watching, Appreciate it. Rachel Nichols in fifteen minutes.
What a what a wild, wacky world we live in.
I do think the NBA is going to be fine,
people will still watch it. I think incidents like the
(16:00):
Damon Jones, Chauncey billup stuff is there are rogued. Tim
Donneghee nineteen seventies, Boston College, Henry Hill, Richie the fixer Perry.
You can't, you can't. I mean this is not analogous,
but you know, it's like not everything is a large
group of people. Sometimes they always talk about this insecurity,
(16:23):
the lone gunman, the lone wolf who is disconnected. He's
a loaner. Nobody, FBI can't predict that stuff, CIA can't
predict that stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
That's what you always worry about security.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
For government officials, CEOs.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
It's a rando.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's a lone wolf who's kind of a loaner and
not connected. So this idea that everything is this big honeycomb,
it's this big net all connected, I just don't believe
that to be true. I mean, I've been betting on
sports forever. I can bet ten dollars anytime and that's it.
But I can also have a glass of champagne celebrating
and that's it because it gives me a headache after one.
(17:03):
So I don't think this is a big net of
NBA players, mob gambling athletes. Bad judgment been around since
the Romans and the Chariot races, and it's going to continue. Well,
I've had a couple of good weeks. I've been on
a heater four and one last week, four and one
(17:26):
this week. I do not like taking favorites and I
do not like the lines this week at all. Here's
our Blazing five.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Let's blaze it up, fired Up. It's Collins Blazon five,
Fars and Ravens.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
My favorite pick, Ravens. Lamar is backed minus six. Lamar returns.
Ravens average thirty three a game and six and a
half yards per play in the four games this year
with Lamar Jackson, and it's a must win game total
urgency for the franchise. Lamar has eaten the NFC for
lunch twenty four to three in his career. Even better
(18:07):
at home, the Bears on the road defense isn't as good.
Caleb Williams, by the way, last three games, completion percentage
has dipped to fifty eight point seven percent, and right
now the Bears defense can make splash plays and takeaways,
but it's allowing six point two yards per.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Play against Lamar.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Lamar Jackson's gonna eat favorite pick of the weekend, Ravens
minus six. They win twenty eight to twenty one, and
it won't feel that close. Browns hit Patriots another big favorite.
I like New England at home minus seven. Why because
four straight wins and they're averaging thirty a game during
those wins, and their defense is great against the run,
(18:50):
meaning Dylan Gabriel will have to pass to beat Drake
May and the Patriots in Brable. I don't see it happening.
Cleveland's defense not good in the road. In fact, the
Browns are zero and three on the road and they
have the twenty eight ranked rush offense. So Dylan Gabriel
is gonna have to be really good to keep up
(19:12):
and beat Drake May, who has been outstanding since Week two.
I don't think it's happening. I like the Patriots to
win by ten, twenty eight to seventeen.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
That's eleven. Dolphins at Felcons.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I like the over forty four and a half points.
I've been hot on overs. Falcons are averaging twenty six
a game and Michael Pennix at home has a one
zero three passer rating. But they also have a terrible
red zone defense. If Miami threatens, Miami should do well
and eat in the red zone. But I like Atlanta
(19:47):
at home to score points. Jamak talked about this fast track.
They're very good. The Dolphins' opponents have combined. Dolphins and
their opponents have combined for forty five plus points in
five of the last six games.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
On the overrun. Here's forty five and a half.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Their defense allows big, big plays in Atlanta at home
delivers big plays. The Dolphins defense not good. Atlanta's offense
at home very good. Take the over forty four and
a half points. Twenty eight, twenty one, thirty twenty four.
(20:22):
My bad of Falcons win forty nine ers at Texans.
This is a late ad. There are concerns about the
Texans health at wide receiver, but this offense for the Texans,
it's the number three scoring offense since Week four, and
their defense has been great all season. Sam Darnold and
(20:42):
Seattle at home last week really struggled with this defense.
So their defense is especially good at clamping down on
running backs and their receiving yards.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
And the Niners right.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Now are living off McCaffrey running and McCaffrey receiving. And
the Niners are three and seven after a win the
last two seasons. So the Texans defense is great. The
Niners are still beat up. I think it's a Choppie game.
I'm gonna take the Texans twenty seven to twenty three,
(21:21):
Cowboys and Broncos. Finally, Denver minus three at home, I
like it. Take the Broncos three and zero at home.
Won eight straight home games dating back to last year,
and seven of those eight have been by eight plus points.
Bo Knicks won eight straight games at home. He's a
(21:44):
better home quarterback. The Cowboys. Listen, they beat the Jets,
the Giants and the Commanders, and Jaden Daniels wasn't healthy.
They've been one and three on the road. They're not
a great road team. And they have an atrocious third
down defense that will keep the ball away from Dak
and they have a big play defense, so the Broncos
are gonna.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Win time of possession.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
The Broncos, who really need to hit on big plays,
have finally found a defense that surrenders big plays. So
I like Denver to win, and I like Denver to
cover the spread. Twenty eight twenty four Broncos wins. So
in a review, I like favorites this week, I generally
(22:30):
don't love them. Favorite bet Ravens minus six at home,
Lamar returns Patriots minus seven at home, Cleveland Dylan Gabriel
will have to throw to win, and I don't see it.
Take the over Atlanta at home scores and the Dolphins
defense is a mess. Take the over. I'm gonna take
(22:52):
the Texans at home minus one and a half. It's
my least favorite pick, but their defense is great, and
the Niners have the mtations offensively and Denver at home
to win and cover. I think that's a fun game.
I think it's a great watch. But Denver, they are
(23:12):
really really seeking the big play, and this is the
defense that does allow the big play. The Cowboys couldn't
say the last time I took three favors generally don't
like doing that. It's a wonky week for numbers now
I did not. I did not take the Steelers because
the number now is down to three, not three and
(23:34):
a half. So the hook was the key the places
I watched it's down to three. I think it's a
really good game, and it's funny Aaron's facing at home
facing the Packers again, and I was thinking about the
memories of him in Green Bay. So he won four MVPs.
He was not a great playoff quarterback eleven and ten
far was also about five hundred, so is Jordan Love.
(23:56):
So what I always think is interesting about Green Bay
remember it more fondly than reality because it was so
esthetically beautiful. I've said this, Dan Marino gets to a
super Bowl year two, never gets back, but we remember
Marino so fondly because it was such a beautiful eye
pleasing style. Same with Aaron. Aaron's last twelve years in
(24:18):
Green Bay. So he wins early in his career and
we think it's going to be a decade of dominance.
His last twelve seasons after that in Green Bay he
was seven and nine in the playoffs and lost multiple
times as a favorite. In fact, those nine losses his
last twelve years in Green Bay, and I looked us
(24:40):
up this morning, that was the most playoff losses by
any team in that stretch. Right, So Mahomes has been
to five Super Bowls and Manning to four, and Britty
was collecting rings and those are peers, right, It's just funny.
In Aaron he replaces Farv and we're like, oh, my god,
is he better than far And my bet was, oh, absolutely,
(25:02):
And they end up both being pretty to be honest
with you, being pretty average in the playoffs despite a
well run organization, good offensive lines, but farv I mean
one thing, all back Aaron on Aaron did not have
a lot of great defenses in Green Bay. And then
he goes to the Jets and they fire Sola and
(25:23):
that defense is no good. Then he goes to Tomlin
Pittsburgh and that defense.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Is no good.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
And the one thing Bradio has had really good defenses
and the one thing Maholmes has now great defenses. So
to defend Aaron is that you look at his playoff
record and you're like, ah, he wanted.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
A great defense.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Do you know the year he had a great defense
was the year he won a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Rachel Nichols around the corner. It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Well. Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since the
early nineties. Fox Sports NBA analyst Rachel Nichols is now
joining us on the show. So you know, there's a
lot to unpack. I think I listened to three to
four total podcasts this morning. Last night like you, you
cover this league regularly, so your feet on the ground.
(26:26):
Let's talk about the difference between sort of the active
and the passive involvement in these gambling operations. A lot
of it's squawk talk and a lot of its reality.
What's the difference here?
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You see?
Speaker 8 (26:39):
Well, there's two kind of categories of this, right, so
we know for sure that they're accusing Terry Rogier of
being active, right that he specifically went to go throw
his appearance in the game. He walked off the court early,
he told people bet the under, and they're accusing him
of sitting and counting the money gained from this with
his friend. A week later, Jante Porter has already ignowed
(27:00):
she he has played guilty to being active, to throwing
his participation in a game and getting the under bet.
And he is a waiting sentencing on that. And then
you have guys who it's not really clear, right. Chauncey
Billups is named in both sides of this suit as saying, oh,
he told an associate that a bunch of guys, including
a guy who matches Damian Lillard's description, will be sitting
(27:22):
that night, and that was used to go gamble. Now
did he just tell someone because he was telling a friend,
or did he do it on purpose to get them
to say, Hey, throw me a little cash, I'll bet
the under Damon Jones, we know, is accused of being
active in this situation, telling someone that Lebron James was
going to be sitting and then saying, hey, bet for
(27:43):
me and then pay me my money. We're talking about
twenty five hundred dollars apparently for giving that information, according
to the federal government.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
So there's kind of two sides of this.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
Chauncey Billups attorney, has come out very strongly and said
he would never do this on purpose. He would never
risk his career or his family. You know, his position
as a Hall of Famer or a coach in this league.
You have to assume that his defense is going to be, Yeah,
I showed up at these poker games. They paid me
to be in these poker games, but I didn't know
they were rigged. We're just going to have to soar
through and find out did they know who knew?
Speaker 9 (28:16):
And is there a difference.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Between the guys who actively participated and the guys who
may have been around people they should not have been around,
And how much did they know it? Kind of though
for the NBA doesn't matter that much how these cases
shake out, because they now have to deal with the
fact that they have two active investigations. Now they've got
in the Clipper situation, They've got an owner who is
(28:38):
being investigated for saying, well, I didn't know this was
going on, but we have a sponsor who was paying
one of our players twenty eight million dollars to apparently
do nothing. You have a coach now being investigated, you
have players being investigated, and you have ex players being investigated.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
That is a lot for one league. Colin, and I
agree with you.
Speaker 8 (28:57):
The NBA has been around for nearly eighty years. The
NBA isn't going anywhere. These scandals are not going to
take down the leak.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
But it is an.
Speaker 8 (29:04):
Issue with if you say crime right in general, in
a neighborhood, crime is going to happen. You're never going
to have zero crime, but you can't have too much
crime right otherwise people won't want to come to that neighborhood.
And that is what the NBA is having to deal
with right now. You have so many different levels of
the game, people being accused of mal Feesi's here.
Speaker 9 (29:21):
That is a lot.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So the NBA did their own investigation on Johntay Porter
and Terry Rozier, and then the FBI did their investigation.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
How do they differ.
Speaker 8 (29:31):
Well, look, the NBA doesn't have subpoena power, so I
don't blame the NBA at all for that.
Speaker 9 (29:36):
They can only do so much.
Speaker 8 (29:37):
They can only get people to talk to them who
want to talk to them. They can't put guys up
and say, hey, we're going to put you in jail
if you don't tell us this. So it is a
very different situation. It's why the NBA has been cooperating
with the government on these investigations.
Speaker 9 (29:50):
But again, the optics.
Speaker 8 (29:52):
Of it are difficult, and it is not the league's fault,
but it is the league's problem when they clear a
guy and then suddenly now he's facing time.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
The damon Jones stuff to me is because I know
I don't know Lebron per se. I've talked to Lebron
for twenty minutes. Ohways, very friendly. I know people in
his circle very well. Again, if I've been critical of Lebron,
they don't reach out. They understand the game. I always
thought he surrounded himself with the smartest guys in the league,
because I think Lebron's really bright, good businessman, bright guy.
(30:25):
The Damon Jones was close to Lebron. He was on
a Laker team, unpaid, part of Darvinham's staff, and so,
you know, I mean, Damon was a well liked guy.
I think I've talked I don't know if I've talked
to him, but Damon Jones was kind of well liked.
Lebron liked him. I'm not sure if he was in
his circle, but you know, they hung out, they like
each other. There is a story that Damon they go
(30:46):
to Milwaukee and Lebron's banged up and he tells people, Hey,
I want to eat here. It is that one troubles
me because it involves the face of the league and
the Lake. If I had to rank these in order,
is that is that the chance or the Damon one
the league is truly frightened about.
Speaker 8 (31:07):
Well, the Damon one is the kind of thing that
could spin out and have future repercussions. Right, because Damon
Jones was very close to Lebron. I'm not saying at
all that Lebron was involved in this. Nobody is saying
Lebron was involved in this, but he was close to
a lot of big names in this league. Damon Jones
is knocked around the league for a long time. He
was on a lot of different teams. He has close
relationships with a lot of guys. He had inside information
(31:27):
on a lot of different guys, and he was clearly
according to the federal government, he is alleged to be
a very active participant in this knowing what he was doing.
So if that is indeed the case, and he did
it with several other guys, we had Cash Pttel, the
director of the FBI, go on several television shows yesterday
after that press conference and say more is coming. He said,
(31:48):
this is just the beginning. So I got to believe him.
He knows what the FBI is investigating, and that is
what the league has to be concerned about.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
The Chauncey Billups thing is just harder at my brain around.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Uh he.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I initially thought he was in the poker side of it,
which is Leakosa Nostra. I don't know if La Cosa
Nostra is involved in the NBA part. They are involved
heavily in the poker and for the record, I listened
to two podcasts last night, one from somebody who covers
the Mob for a living, and he said, there are
Mob games all over New York tonight. Yeah, it's just
(32:23):
you know, you know New York better than I do.
But like that's just the thing he was naming, you know,
on Lexington Avenue, there's a I mean, he was naming
the areas that I'm like, Okay, so and NBA players
have played cards forever. It's kind of part of the culture.
Do you think the league was caught off guard with
John C.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Billups?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I mean, players have done this in all sports that
The Chauncey one for me is whoa a coach?
Speaker 3 (32:49):
How is that viewed? Are you shocked by that?
Speaker 8 (32:52):
I was very shocked by it because Johncey is extremely
well liked around the league. He's known as a mentor,
a leader, a good guy.
Speaker 9 (32:59):
You know.
Speaker 8 (32:59):
The reason why he is held in such high esteem
isn't because he was such an elite. He's not the
leader in the NBA in points ever, He's not like
Lebron James. He's known as being one of the best
leader of men in the NBA, and here he is
being caught up in a scandal that at the very
least shows incredible bad judgment and according to the FBI,
shows a lot worse than that. And when you talk
(33:20):
about sort of the back and forth and why these
two cases are connected.
Speaker 9 (33:24):
It's because a lot of the same guys are involved.
Speaker 8 (33:26):
In the illegal poker game as in the betting, and
that is where the crossover is and why Chauncey is
also named in the illegal betting part but not indicted
in that part because he was with those guys, but
not necessarily, according to the FBI, purposely.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
Giving information to them.
Speaker 8 (33:41):
He just did give information to whether he knew or
not it was being used to bet.
Speaker 9 (33:45):
But this is going to continue to.
Speaker 8 (33:47):
Be a problem, and the NBA has to hope that
what happens is is that guys understand they could go
to jail for this, and once that realization sets in,
the hope is that players, coaches, anyone involved with the league.
Speaker 9 (34:00):
Just stops messing with this. But the NBA is in a.
Speaker 8 (34:02):
Little bit of a tough position, as are every sports
league now the way legalized betting is in these betting companies.
The NBA was estimated to make around one hundred and
seventy million dollars directly.
Speaker 9 (34:13):
From betting companies.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
It has two official relationships and other relationships with fifteen
other betting companies. Then you talk about fan engagement, because betting,
as we know, the whole point is it makes people
watch games they might not otherwise rutch, right, Uh, you
know this is a lopsided game, but I got to
bet on it.
Speaker 9 (34:29):
I mean, it's fantasy football too. Why do we watch
so many football games we might not otherwise care about?
Speaker 8 (34:34):
Right, So the engagement factor is also huge, and that's
estimated to be two or three hundred million dollars extra
a year pouring into the league fan engagement on top
of one hundred and seventy million dollars, so it really
has become an integral part of the league's income system.
So it's very hard to just walk away from all
of this. But it's also hard to think about the
fact that you have these games going on and right
(34:56):
underneath on the ticker is hey bet the third quarter?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Bet?
Speaker 9 (34:59):
What's going on here? Yesterday?
Speaker 8 (35:01):
We had several television networks across covering this, people discussing
it just like you and I, And underneath on the
ticker is go bet. Right Sports networks who have their
own sports book. ESPN has its own sports book. And
while they were discussing this on the Morning Show, it
said bet ESPN underneath. So this is so ingrained and
so available in a way. It wasn't twenty years ago.
(35:24):
You're talking about Michael Jordan going to Atlantic City. He
had to go to Atlantic City. You don't have to
do that anymore. And every single person involved with the
NBA just has to send a text, and it's a
much different game.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Well, you know, David Stern was really anti gambling. Adam
Silver was the opposite. Stern eventually came around and realized
the value. And I am a believer in legalized sports
gambling because it's a regulated market. The Terry Rose ear stuff, Rachel,
I'm sure you know this. They knew instantly. I mean
they knew within hours something was up.
Speaker 9 (35:55):
I cut off betting for the rest of the night.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, and I do worry about Brian Windhorse said the
league knew as a fake and injury took them out
of games. Was the NBA strong enough? Barkley talked about
that last night. So I am four and I've worked
in Vegas like I am for regulation. Remember it was
Vegas that told the NBA about Tim Donneghey, yeah right,
(36:17):
they don't want to The margins are thin. They don't
want any of this. I'll just throw this at you
when you hear tip of the iceberg. I tend to
think it's more rogue stuff. I think most players get.
Let me ask you this, when you go to cover
the NBA, do you see signage? Do you see I mean,
(36:40):
obviously these players are told you can't talk about injuries
to non locker room people, Like, do you have a
sense when you go cover games that it's understood the
line not be crossed with gambling and non insiders.
Speaker 8 (36:55):
I think it's understood that you don't do what Damon
Jones did, which was techt someone who is a known
gambling and associate and say, hey, bet the under because
or bet against the Lakers because Lebron isn't playing tonight.
I think players know that is against the rules. However,
there is a gray area and this is hard to
regulate and it's hard to even manage. If you're a player,
(37:16):
you tell a buddy, eh, I'm frustrated I'm not playing tonight.
That information is not out there yet, that buddy doesn't
work for the NBA. He can go place a bet
or tell other people to place a bet.
Speaker 9 (37:26):
Based on that information. And that's always going to happen.
Speaker 8 (37:29):
And it becomes even more complicated once we get into
college basketball and college sports, because the NCAA just a
couple days ago said that its players can now bet
on professional sports in the sport that they play. So
what if you're a player who is a junior or
senior who has a buddy in the NBA, who was
on your team, who was a teammate just a year
or two ago, who just in a casual conversation says, ugh,
(37:50):
I can't play tonight. No one knows that yet, but
I can't play. Oh my knee's bothering me. Now that
kid in college can go bet on that inside information.
Speaker 9 (37:58):
This just gets very dangerous.
Speaker 8 (38:00):
And sticky, and it is difficult when you say, is
it the tip of the iceberg or is it an
ice cube? As you said earlier in the show, which
I think is.
Speaker 9 (38:07):
A great analogy.
Speaker 8 (38:08):
I think it might be an iceberg, only because there
are so many different places this could crop up, all
across the NBA, all across other sports, all across college sports. Now,
so I think we're going to see a lot of
different places for this to happen, and you just have
to hope again, as players see, you can go to jail.
Speaker 9 (38:25):
Your entire life can be ruined over this.
Speaker 8 (38:27):
It is not worth it and you get into the
addiction side of it too, which is override some people's judgment.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, it did.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
By the way, an NBA player is liable, and they
have been told this. If they talk about an injury
to a non team employee, they are lible. They could
say it to a friend. You can't. So I mean
every NBA player in every room they walk into is
the biggest star, right, and people come up to them
(38:55):
and they just I mean you almost have to hide
before a game and stay off your f I mean
really you really do as a as a player. So
I do have some sympathy there. Rachel Nichols, great stuff
as always. On an ongoing investigation and we'll just we'll
keep everybody updated.
Speaker 9 (39:13):
Thank you, Rach, thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, it's it's it's just not yeah, if you just
say and I thought about this. I was talking to
Danny Parkins about this on a pod last night and
and he kind of theorized, he said, what if you
couldn't bet unders, you could only bet over. You can't
bet this guy will score less this guy. Look, if
a guy scores more, it's good for everybody, right, the player,
(39:36):
the team, the guy. But you can't bet unders. But
I don't believe you should eliminate prop bets because then
it goes to the unregulated market and it's not supervised.
I want it supervised, so you know, you know, answers
Areno is easy with this stuff.
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