November 12, 2025 • 38 mins
Colin Cowherd breaks down one of the biggest stories in football — how Caleb Williams has transformed from a disappointing rookie to an elite NFL quarterback under head coach Ben Johnson, as the Chicago Bears surge into the NFC playoff race
Colin also ranks the NFL quarterbacks in line for massive contract extensions — is Drake Maye showing true franchise potential? Can Bo Nix continue to deliver in the clutch?
Plus, 3-time Super Bowl Champion Eric Mangini joins the show to reveal why Bill Belichick could be plotting an NFL comeback with the New York Giants, and what that would mean for the league’s coaching landscape
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
There we go. It is a Wednesday. We're in Chicago.
Beautiful day Live. It's the Herd wherever you may be,
however you may be listening, whatever platform it is. Thanks
for making us part of your day. Joel Platt in
one hour got another look at the college football rankings
(00:49):
which become the college Football Playoff. You know, I saw
this morning certain things that just make me smile. I
don't know if you saw this. J Mac, you know,
the highest graded quarterback in the NFL the last two weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
But forth, let me get a guess.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I'll go Caleb Williams. That's interesting, isn't this funny?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Highest rated PFF quarterback all year as a former Trojan
and currently the hottest USC Trojan.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I'm telling you they're coming back telling.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You so, I was thinking about this success in any field.
Any field can be law education. It's mostly masonry, one
brick at a time. Great parenting isn't the weekend birthday parties.
It's Monday through Friday, seven to eight to seven p.
Caleb Williams was flashy last year. Caleb Williams is still
(01:48):
flashy this year. But you want to know why he's
the highest credded quarterback. It's all the masonry. He proves
that young talented quarterbacks, even super hyper talented quarterbacks, they
just need a baseline of support and common sense. Ben
Johnson takes this job, does he say, Caleb, I want
(02:08):
more zany flashy plays.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
The first thing he addresses, we got to get better
at guard center guard. Not even the most dynamic offensive
line positions, the big uglies in the middle of the
old line. They get Jonah Jackson, Drew Dahlman. They get
Joe Toney guard center guard. The second thing he says, Hey,
I got to ask you something, Caleb, can you.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Not run backwards?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I want to eliminate the negative plays and the pre
stat penalties. Two basic masonry laying brick needs. And suddenly
he's the hottest quarterback in the league. Because when you're
not first and fifteen or first and twenty or second
in twenty eight because you got sacked running backwards, you
(02:57):
run the ball better, and you run the ball more often,
and that helps the core to back. Now, Patrick Mahomes
the way he entered the league, Hall of Fame coach,
great GM, great owner, Hall of Fame, tight end, Pro
Bowl wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
That car had no flat tires.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And Caleb entered the Bears with eber flues and that
staff and a battle line. Their were four flat tires.
But Caleb was not terrible last year. He was wildly flashy.
Twenty touchdown, six picks. It's all the little stuff that
makes great parenting and great quarterback. Yeah, we have much
better protection guard, center guard. We don't have any negative
(03:36):
plays pre snap stuff. What did Belichick say about Brady?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
What Tom?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You're always playing in front of the sticks. It's never
first and fifteen, it's never second and twenty two. Move
the ball ahead. Because the wild dynamic running thing that
is really really easy for Caleb Williams. That's in eight,
that's natural, that's gonna come. Caleb's success this year is
(04:01):
on all the minutia of the NFL guard play no
pre snap penalties last week, Minnesota at eight. Last week,
the Rams had no penalties either side. Efficiency matters whether
you're at Meta Fox Sports of the Bears. The Bears
are just more They're more efficient, they're more stable. I
(04:24):
was looking at Caleb Williams passer rating. Last year it
was eighty eight. This year it's ninety two. You look
at yards per attempt six point three to seven point three,
it's not that different. The one thing you see of
the sacks, no negative plays. Therefore you can establish a
(04:45):
run game. Therefore you're throwing on play accent. You couldn't
run the ball last year for Chicago, between the sacks
and the pre snap stuff. You were throwing it because
you had to throw it. Now you throw it because
you want to throw it. Totally different. But as Greg
Olson said yesterday, you know the hyper athletic stuff, that's
(05:06):
just who he is. He'll always have that. What he
needed was a grown up coach to do the small stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
When things break down in today's NFL, which is going
to be often past.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Protection is very difficult.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
The rushers are very good. Scheme is good. You have
to have a quarterback that can make second, second level plays,
meaning it's not the initial read, it's not the initial timing.
I got a playoff script. He can do that as
well as anyone. As they continue to get him into
more of the on time rhythm component of Ben Johnson's
drop that game. If that continues to develop, that's what
(05:40):
Chicago thought they were drafting last year.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yep, Caleb brings the sizzle, right, he brings the sizzle.
Ben Johnson just brought in a better stake. Success is
largely masonry in every field, one brig at a time,
the little stuff. So I've always had a rule on
my show basically, I have opinions, and you can have
(06:04):
opinion on my opinion, but I'm not going to have
an opinion on your opinion on my opinion. I'll make
an exception because I think this is instructive. So I
said the other day, I said, Micah Parsons is a
stud athlete, but through the years. This summer, I had
a conversation with a general manager and he said, don't
be surprised if Dallas moves off him even though he's
(06:25):
in his prime, because he's not.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
A versatile player.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
He's a great athlete and a great player, and he's
going to be a Hall of Famer. But the Cowboys
try to use him at linebacker and it didn't work.
He doesn't have fast eyes. He's one of those classic
Hassan Reddick was this. He's a much better player than
Hassan Reddick. See quarterback, go get him, sea ball, go
get it. There's no knock on that. He's a world
class athlete. Well, he didn't like when I said that.
(06:49):
He put up a tweet yesterday and said, hey, we
just held Saquon Barkley to sixty rushing yards. Our only
losses have been holding teams to thirteen points. Man, Sometimes,
can y'all please just blank any blank, stop giving people
mics or listening to trash. So let me just say
this about your great job against Saquon Barkley. Seven of
(07:12):
nine Philadelphia Eagle games this year, Saquon Barkley has rushed
for sixty yards or less. The Dallas Cowboys held them
to sixty yards. The Eagles can't run the football this year.
That wasn't great defense. That is the inability due to
injuries and other reasons. Philly can't run the ball this year.
That's why they're not as dominant. That was not a
(07:32):
great packer performance. It was a consistent Eagles run game performance.
So the Cowboys defense last year with Micah thirty first,
the Cowboys defense this year without Micah thirty first and again.
But the argument here isn't about who's right me or Micah.
It's this is instructive. There are certain players in the NFL,
(07:54):
very very infrequent professional athletes that do a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Wemby ball handle, hit a three block, a shot, post move,
Yo Kinsch can do everything. Best passer on the Nuggets,
best post guy in the Nuggets, best rebounder mostly on
the Nuggets.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Best shooter at times on the Nuggets. That is rare.
O Tawi can do everything.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Most baseball players, the great ones are Freddie Freeman, Man
can he hit Otani can do everything, Yo Kitchen, Wemby
are versatile. Luca is a great scorer. Carmelo Anthony was
a great score. He wasn't a great playmaker, a great defender,
a great rebounder. Melo and Luke are great scores. And
that for great players, even great players, that's it. Christian
(08:44):
McCaffrey's a versatile player. Vjon Robinson's a versatile player. Adrian
Peterson was just a great running back. Micah is essentially
Tyreek Hill for the record, both traded in their prime.
Greek Hill's never been a great blocker, he doesn't run
great routes, but he'll probably make the Hall of Fame
(09:06):
because man, he is great with the deep ball. But
Andy Reid moved off him. Brett Veach, arguably second best
gem in the league, moved off him. They moved off
him in his prime, and the Cowboys moved off Mike
in his prime. Cleveland's not moving off Miles Garrett. Raiders
aren't moving off Max Crosby. Steelers aren't moving off TJ.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Watt. Why because those are versatile at rushers. Mike is not.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
In his run with Alas Cowboys, they were twenty third
against the run, they got sacks, they got pressure, they
were twenty third against the run.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
So what Micah is? He's Tyreek Hill.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Both traded in their prime, Both unbelievable, Both will probably
make the Hall of Fame. Both highly productive. But Tyreek
Hill isn't Larry Fitzgerald. Okay, Larry Fitzgerald could do. Drake
London maybe the best red zone receiver he can be
an underneath receiver. Drake London can block Blake. Drake London
(10:08):
can be a deep threat. Drake London can be anything
you want him to be. Larry Fitzgerald can be anything.
Tyreek just goes deep. Micah is a sea ball sea quarterback.
Get it, and that has unbelievable value. But the Cowboys
tried them at linebacker. I was told bad GM doesn't
have great eyes. Can't put him in the coverage.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
It's not what he does.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And by great standards, ninety nine percent great athletes, not
just average guy. The great ones are more Freddie Freeman
than Otani. They're more Carmelo than you' Kitcher Wemby. They're
more Tyreek and Micah than Miles Garrett or Larry Fitzgerald
or Christian McCaffrey or Bejon Robinson, Kyle Hamilton jsend for
(10:50):
the Seahawks. You can put him on the sideline. You
can put him in the slot. Remember the late Aaron Hernandez.
He can play like six positions. Gronk's a tight end.
Okay is a tight end. Aaron hernandezhould put him in
the backfield. You could put him in the slot. You
could put him anywhere, So it's not a shot, it's instructive.
On Micah Mike is what he's always been, stud athlete,
(11:13):
five star recruit, disruptive pass rusher. And Tyreek Hill is
always what he was. Man can he get deep fast?
But very rarely do you get a player, even an
old timer, that does a bunch of stuff. Well, Christian
McCaffrey does so many things better than Adrian Peterson. But
(11:34):
if you told me I needed two yards and somebody
to run over a linebacker, I'd probably take Adrian Peterson.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Got Belichick New York Giant rumors, I believe it or not,
Belichick New York Giant rumors. I'm gonna quiz everybody this
hour on the show because we always talk about this
with young quarterbacks. How it's not linear, it's bumpy, it's up,
it's who's your coach, who's your offensive line. It's very interesting.
(12:04):
I'm going to ask everybody watching our show today, you're
the general manager, and I'm going to give you every
quarterback under twenty five, twenty five or under. I'm gonna
give you everyone, and by the end of today you
have to decide on a two hundred and fifty million
dollar extension.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Today's the last day you get.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Two guys who would be your two Just kind of
throw it out there. I'm gonna give you a couple
of minutes to study the midterm every quarterback twenty five
and undred. You're the GM today at the end of
the business day, you have to make a decision on
those twelve young quarterbacks. Two you get a signed today,
(12:48):
you have to.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So there's twelve.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It's about twelve. I'll look at the number again. Justin
Herbert one of them. No, no, no, he's now eclipsed.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Then he said, claps twenty five. Okay, this is setting
up so that Caleb william one of the two. Obviously, yes, yes,
I can tell already you love the Bears and Caleb Williams.
Now you got me worried. I had liked the Bears
against the Vikings, but this soliloquy you started off with,
I am a little nervous. I think JJ McCarthy shows
up big this weekend.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Oh okay, good luck.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
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(13:39):
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Speaker 1 (13:53):
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Speaker 3 (13:58):
Fox College football is under the lights in primetime this week.
It's a battle in the Big Ten as Minnesota takes
on Dante More and number eight Oregon Friday night, nine pm.
He's turned six pm Pacific on Fox.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So Chase Daniel was talking the other day on a
podcast and he knows the Sean Payton Saints Denver system
very well offensively, and he said when he watches bow Nix,
he sees somebody that just doesn't he's not seeing it.
He's not seeing the stuff that's open. But it's interesting.
Everybody's good at spending somebody else's money. But if you
(14:35):
were a GM and this is what GMS go through.
I mean, Cleveland sat down in a room and said,
Baker's driving us crazy. We know he's talented, we're going
to let him go. They probably regret it now, Minnesota,
you know, do we keep Sam, we pay him this,
we let him go, Minnesota regrets it. So Stefanski's really smart,
Kevin O'Connell's really smart. And they let go of Baker
(14:58):
Mayfield and Sam Dar and now they're Pro Bowl level quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
The stuff is hard.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's easy when you get somebody on a discount, throw
on a rookie contract, you know, or you're spending somebody
else's money. But if I said, you're the general manager
and knowing that, the minute you pay a quarterback big money,
the roster will not look the same.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Like, for instance, if you paid Caleb.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Williams two hundred and ninety million dollars today, new contract.
We gotta let dj Moore go. We gotta let Joe
Tuny go. We can't pay for all of it, can't
can't get you gotta let now. I got Roma Dunza,
and I'll still have Drew Dolman and Jonah Jackson. I
probably gotta let Joe Tuney go Kansas City had to
(15:43):
let Joe Tuny go with protecting mahomes. They had to
let him go guard Okay. So all these things considered,
here are the quarterbacks in the NFL twenty five and under.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
There's a eleven. Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So if I said, you have until the end of
the business day today to make a decision two hundred
ninety three hundred million dollar contract, half of it guaranteed,
who are the three you would take? The easy one
is Drake May. Drake May wasn't great last year. He
was lousy in the opener against the Raiders, but the
(16:19):
last eight nine weeks that's a franchise quarterback. Drake May's
the easy one. You need three total. The next two
I would take are CJ. Stroud, who's hurt again and
his passer rating the last two years is eighty nine,
eight great, not really a starter, eighty nine. And the
(16:43):
next I would take his Caleb and his two years
in the NFL year and a half, his passer rating
hovers around ninety not great, okay. So and even with
Ben Johnson it's like ninety two and a half. That's
not great. I'd like upper nineties.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So the three twenty five at under and for our
radio audience, I'll read you the quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Jade and Daniels. Okay, I can't.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
He's hurt for the fourth time a year and a
half in Jackson Dart lives in the blue tent. JJ
McCarthy obvious reasons. Michael Pennix junior hurt in college. Looks
really really disappointing so far. Brock Purty small hurt again.
(17:30):
Max Jones went thirty three at thirty nine last weekend?
Has has brought ever done that? We're just asking, uh
camp Ward who knows Bryce Young probably not going to
extend him.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
So you start looking at all these.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
My three one with no hesitation as Drake may the
next two.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
C J.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Stroud has a couple of playoff wins, hurt again, ninety
passer rating last two years. I would reci and Caleb
because I think with Ben we're getting a truer version
of himself and it's about a ninety two passer rating.
But everybody bangs on bon Nicks. Let me remind you
of Bononis two things I want to remind you of.
(18:14):
In the fourth quarter this season, he's basically number one
at everything, first downs, game winning drives total touchdowns, second yards,
really good in the fourth quarter for the record. So
it's Caleb. The second thing is he's durable. He never
gets hurt. Go look at that list to get Jackson
Dart hurt, Jadon Daniels hurt, Bryce Young hurt, c J
(18:35):
Strout hurt.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Everybody's hurt. Everybody's banged up.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
BONNICKX and Caleb Williams and Drake May they don't get hurt.
Sean Payton this week on bon Nicks and speeding up
his game.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Internally, I think it's a plus and a minus.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
I've said that before. I think one of his great
strengths has not taken sacks, and so the claw in
his head relative to that sense of urgency. So I
think there is a fine line. I think that's a
much easier problem to correct than the latter, which is
taking the sacks, and historically speaking, it's proven to be
(19:16):
much more difficult to fix.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, so he's probably letting go of the ball a
step early, not a step late. He's playing a little fast,
a little frenetic. But you I'm always amazed by people
that overlook durability. How many times is Brock Purdy going
to be hurt. How many times is Jackson Dark going
(19:39):
to go to the blue tenth? Bonix never gets hurt,
Caleb Williams never gets hurt. I need my guys there. So,
like I said this about mac Jones, Mac Jones, I
don't see a lot of injuries. Brock Purty hurt again
all the time. I don't know how you can overlook that.
Cam Ward, it's almost unfair to put him in there.
He has no support. He could be really good eventually.
(20:02):
But if I said, you got to pick three guys
and you gotta write the check, knowing when you write
the check, you gotta let people go. Now, Drake May
you can sign that check. They're not paying anybody, so
they wouldn't have to let people go. Travon Henderson rookie,
Kyle Williams receiver, rookie, So they're in a good space.
Will Campbell left can't tackle rookie. They're in a really
(20:22):
good space. But Caleb, if you sign him, or CJ. Stroud,
if you sign him, you gotta let people go. So
bow knicks, everybody's banging on bow knicks. Durable wins games
great in the fourth quarter. What is Caleb this year?
Durable wins games great in the fourth quarter. I'm sorry
for me. I'm into that. I've worked with people in
(20:45):
this industry that are really talented, they're just not dependable.
High and low don't get them every day. We talked
about masonry. So I don't know, you don't have to
like bo Nicks and how he's the best fourth quarterback
in the league right now. He's never hurt and he
(21:08):
wins games. He's eighteen and nine in a division with
Mahomes and Herbert and Harbaugh, spaggs, Andy Reid.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I know that's a very disappointing segment for you.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
This is an awesome segment. I love this idea, So
I'm going to break it down for you where I
agree and disagree. So I think let's process of elimination
right off the bat. You can eliminate three guys. They're
not in the mix. Bryce Young out, Michael Pennix out,
bow Nicks out those three guys, and you.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
And I don't agree on that. I like the durable
guy that wins games.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Well again, you know we have two years worth of
data and his numbers are not good at all. Yes,
he has been able to finagle some wins with Sean
Payton beat a lot of bad teams, but I would
eliminate bo Nicks. Not enough data so far, Kim Ward,
I don't think you can make a decision. Jackson Dart,
I know we love him, but can't make a decision.
And JJ McCarthy you cannot. He's had four starts, okay,
(22:01):
So that leaves five guys for do you want two
or three spots?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Three spots?
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Drake May I think you're right based on the two
years we've seen. I think he's in. I do believe
you're missing on Brock Purty. And why is that, Colin?
Because he's played more than all these guys. Brock Purty
has played way more games than Caleb Williams. He has
more wins, but you love obviously more touchdown more games.
He had two game winning drives in the postseason two
(22:28):
years ago. I know Caleb has four this year. Whoa
Rock Purdy has two in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Purdy has his yards per attempt or eight point eight
in his career. Caleb Williams only six point eight. Lot
of dink and dunk. So I think Rock purtys a lock.
I think Brock Purty is after Drake May and then
you go between Caleb Stroud and date Jayden Daniels, and
Caleb has looked good. But con do you think you're
being a little emotional?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
You now moved to Chicago. Caleb's on a heater.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
If I told you you'd never seen anybody play, I said,
I'm gonna give you this significantly better athlete who never
gets hurt.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Well, no, he doesn't never get hurt. He just hasn't
been hurt. I mean he's played like twenty five games
or something.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Caleb didn't get hurt last year. He didn't get hurt
in college, he didn't get hurt in high school. He's
not hurt this year. If I told you you did
it with Brock Purty and Caleb Williams, you'd never seen
him play, I said, one guy, much better arm, also
significantly more athletic and way more durable.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Not a GM in the league that would take.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Now here's the big thing with Caleb. So last year
he didn't look good at all. Numbers were horrible, body language.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Let's stop, let's stop. Twenty touchdowns, six picks, and a
passer rating close to ninety.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
It wasn't those are three numbers.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
There's a billion numbers that go into the equation. But
he changed coaches and upgraded to Ben Johnson, so now
he has basically Brock Perty has Scott Shanahan, and Caleb
has Ben Johnson, and Brock Perdy's data compared to Caleb's
so far is night and day. Rock Perty's been the
better quarterback by almost every metric.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
When he has more starts, and he has a veteran coach,
and he has Christian McCaffrey as em McCaffery, and he's.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Hurt all the time, and he's hurt again.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And mac Jones just put up a Sunday better than
any brock Purtty ever did from the pocket.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I mean, Tyson Bagent filled in last year and was
like capable, Remember he had a starter or too low.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I think nobody, nobody thinks I know Tyson Bagent is
Caleb mac Jones last week. That's a better That's a
better Sunday in the pocket than brock Pertty never had
thirty three to thirty nine with backups.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Just by the completion for cents. Listen, I get it,
you're out on pretty. He had the shoulder injury in
the playoffs and then the toe thing this year. I mean,
if he's injury prone, I don't know what joke that
makes Joe Burrow injuries happened though, I mean, come on,
Jayden Daniels flukey putting his arm down hyper extended.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Mahomes is never hurt, and Josh Allen's not hurt, and
Caleb's not hurt hur and bo Nix isn't hurt, and
Eli Manning didn't get hurt. And I mean the truth is,
most of Aaron Rodgers' career he didn't get hurt, and
most of Brady's he didn't get hurt. And I think
some guys are just brittle and small. By the way,
too is hurt, and then Kyler gets banged up, and
(25:15):
Bryce Young is hurt, and brock Perty's not big as well.
I don't think it's just coincidence. Like I don't think
it's coincidence. The Jags have all these great picks and
none of them pan out, and yet and yet Mike
Rabel gets his top picks this year, his top three picks,
they all work out. I don't think that's I don't
think that's osmosis happenstance. Smart people bigger, stronger, durable athletes
(25:40):
over time is who I'm with. I've always told you
that before. I like traits and trunky and thick. I
like all that stuff. That stuff matters to me.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
If you're a.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Little small, a little thin, you become Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
neon Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
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Speaker 1 (26:08):
Really coached the Jets, he coached the Cleveland Browns. In fact,
he with the two thousand and six AFC Coach of
the Year with the Jets. But things turned fast in
New York. Eric Mangini. First things first is joining us live.
So I suggested, I said, I think I would go
get Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
It's New York. I want coaching experience.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
He won with Cooper Rush, he won with Dak He
won with Aaron that was called boring and uninspiring As
an option, Is Mike McCarthy sound boring and uninspiring? I
don't know if I'd want to go with another coordinator
in New York. Coughlin was a head coach at Boston
College Jacksonville, New York. He could handle New York. McCarthy's
(26:49):
had Jerry Big Packers brand McCarthy feels like they're right
fit to me in New York.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Am I nuts? You're not nuts?
Speaker 7 (26:57):
So you for an organization that's had as many problems
as the Giants, to get an established head coach with
the experience and and who's not going to go through
that learning curve is really attractive. But typically guys don't
get three head coaching shots. That's that's not the norm.
To me, this would have been if Bill had sat
If Bill Belichick had sat out a year, another year
(27:20):
and and been available, I think this would have been
a really interesting story and it could have gone full circle.
And I that's not a great fit either because of
his age and and some of the personnel issues he's had,
but that that at least is a compelling storyline, and
you'd know he'd get the defense fixed at a minimum.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't love Belichick.
Speaker 7 (27:45):
I I yeah, I don't love North Carolina Belichick going there.
I think it's I think that that has kind of
allowed the shift to sail.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
What do you make if the Giants keeping their GM,
Joe Shane.
Speaker 7 (27:59):
I don't understand it at all con And look, I'm
a little bit biased with Brian Dayball because I've had
a long relationship with him and he's worked for me,
and I know what a good coach he is, and
he was Coach of the Year to start. But we
all saw on TV that they GM wanted to move
on from Saquon Barkley, and he definitely wasn't going to
go in the division and he wasn't worth what anybody
(28:19):
who was going to pay him. And then he goes
and has almost an MVP type season and arguably could
have been the MVP if we didn't always name a quarterback.
And then they do that to keep Daniel Jones, and
then they move on from Daniel Jones, they eat all
of the dead money, and here we are a year
later and Daniel Jones is doing what he's doing with
the Colts. So that's the guy making the ultimate personnel decisions.
(28:42):
Those are two dramatic organizational shaping decisions that not only
affect you short term but long term because of the
dead money. And yet you have your job and the
coach is fired mid season. Doesn't seem to make a
lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, Okay, so I said this earlier.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I said, with these young quarterbacks, two things are true.
It's usually not linear. It's bumpy. It's up, it's down
at streaky. Second thing who they get is they're opening
coach matters, especially like you're Sam Darnold twenty one. You
didn't have a great coach in college. You go to
the NFL, it's Adam Gase. It's like, that's a lot.
That's a lot. So I said, here's the eleven quarterbacks
(29:27):
twenty five and under. If by the end of today
business day, you have to sign a three hundred million
dollar you know, one hundred and sixties guaranteed. I said,
Drake May is my absolute, c J. Stroud and Caleb
Williams probably my next two.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
But half of these I defended bon Nicks.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I'm like, he's durable, he never gets hurt, he's excellent
late in games college and pro, and he wins a
bunch of games. I know it's not pretty, but if
I told you is there are are there you guys
you could write that check for today of those.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
Eleven, yeah, I wouldn't be signing a check for Drake May.
At this point. Drake May to me, this year's Jayden
Daniels and Jayden. Daniels was last year's c J. Stroud,
that's all it was. And he's hot right now. And
everybody loves Drake may just like we love Jayden just
like we love CJ. Well, you've got to be able
to see these guys do it consistently and continue to improve.
(30:26):
But look at the list of guys who've gotten big money,
love to a Herbert Trevor Purdy, the forty nine ers
paying Purty over a quarter of a billion dollars, and
now mac Jones goes out there and he's playing at
a really high level for three percent of what Perty's making.
So you make these decisions that then affect everything moving
(30:50):
forward because those guys have to be forced multipliers because
you can't then go pay everybody else. The quarterback just
makes too much money. So to me, I I still
like Jade and Daniels a lot. He would probably be
my top guy.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
On that list.
Speaker 7 (31:04):
And then after that, it's it's a it's a craft shoot,
it's it's a who knows whether these guys are going
to continue to elevate or whether we're going to see,
you know, the sputtering out. You'd like to think CJ.
Stroud is a franchise guy. But there's been a lot
of ups and downs that I didn't expect, you know,
at this level to be.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, hey, we were talking about Green Bay. Is that
they're broken.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
They haven't scored on their opening drive since Dallas Week four.
So the scripted stuff's not good. The running game's not good.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Craft is a great tight end out for the year,
read a clever receiver. He's banged up, Golden didn't play.
Is it Lafleur, is it Love? Is it the injuries? Like,
how do you solve mid season a broken offense?
Speaker 7 (31:56):
The Tucker Craft injury was a really bad one. He
was he was looking like a pretty big safety blanket
for Jordan Love. And when you look at Jordan Love
over the course of his career, he's typically either red
hot or mid. He's in that sort of seventy to
eighty quarterback rating range, and that's been frustrating to see.
(32:21):
They do a lot of good things. They're willing to
run the ball, they're number one and third down, they're
pretty effective in the red area. But yet we see
what we saw in the last few games. Now, I
do think we need to grade the Eagles on a curve.
This Eagles defense, to me, has gotten better. And then
they got reinforcements with Jalen Phillips, So that's a better
(32:44):
defense than what they've been throughout the course of the year.
It's the it's the Cleveland Browns loss, it's the Carolina
Panthers loss, it's the Dallas Cowboys tie. It's playing down
your level of comp And then for Jordan Love, there's
another great situation where they paid him a ton of
money and you're expecting him to continue to elevate, but
(33:06):
it's taken longer than I think people expected because of
how much he makes.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
So I want to go back and I said this.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I watched this Mendoza kid this weekend at Indiana, and
that to me, big big arm can move a little
lots of college starts. That's an NFL quarterback. That last
drive against Penn State on the road, I mean Eric,
it was just boom, boom, boom, and I mean he
had people in his face, like that offensive line got
pushed around, they couldn't run the ball. It was like
(33:34):
that drive was that was a Sunday drive. Dante More
reportedly might stay a lot of these college kids now
with nil they might stay and I said, well, I
may go mac Jones. I'd go Mendoza mac Jones. But
my broader point was that's what Indiana did. They said,
we're not going to draft another quarterback. We're going to
(33:55):
get somebody in the league, Daniel Jones. Seattle said, we're
not going to draft another quarterback. We're gonna get Sam Donald.
That's what Tampa said, Jason light the GM, let's go
get Baker. So Mendoza to me's a slam dunk. Mac
Jones would be my second pick. The rest of these
guys aren't ready to star. Let's talk Sam Donald, who
I would have never and I stayed with him the
(34:16):
whole time. But I don't think he's just a reclamation project.
I think he looks like a top five quarterback. Now
maybe he's not. But you broke down some film this week.
What do you see all your years in the NFL,
what do you see with Donald?
Speaker 7 (34:31):
Yes, the Sam Donald elevation really started at the end
of Carolina. He's four and two at Carolina and then
he goes has a really outstanding season last year. Now
the end of the season that hurt him, and I
think I think that's still the big question mark with him.
And now he moves to Seattle, and what he's been
so good at is the deep ball and passes over
(34:53):
ten yards. He's first in completions, he's first in yards,
he's first in touchdowns, he's first in quarterback. He's got
all all those things going for him. You know, he
struggled a little bit in the second half, and we're
gonna have to see how it goes when he gets.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
To the playoffs.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
But let me let me show you a deep ball
play that he had against the Cardinals, which is a
really good look at what he can do and why
he's so effective. So this is actually the first drive
of the game and they just literally cross midfield a
couple plays earlier. They're gonna run hard sell play action,
and with the hard sell play action, they're gonna end
(35:29):
up blocking eight. So they're gonna block the five offensive lineman,
the two tight ends, and the running back is going
to stay in as well. And then Sam does a
really good job on these play action fakes. You can
see him extend the arm out here. He's selling it.
And now Seattle's just going to run a two man route.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
So they've got.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Shaheed running the over and then Jackson Smith and Jigba.
He's going to push vertically, then he's going to drive
out to freeze the cornerback. Then he's going to push
up the field.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
But it's simply a two man route.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
And then with the Cardinals, they're actually very effective at
stopping deep balls. They're bringing pressure here and they actually
get more pressures because so many guys bite on the
play accident and they've got a three deep zone behind it,
so they're in a great defense to stop the deep ball.
Seattle rolls Donald out to his left. He's a right
handed quarterback. Typically you throw this moving him to his
(36:20):
dominant arm, not a way from his dominant arm. Looking
at Jigbok, he pushes out. Now that freezes the cornerback,
the cornerback who is high on him, and you can
see Donald's gonna let this go even though in Jigba's
not on top of the cornerback right now. He's got
the confidence that he's going to be. But here's what's
so important. He's outside the numbers. He's on top of
the cornerback, but he's outside the numbers because he's got
(36:42):
to stay away from this post safety, who could potentially,
if he's got a good break and fairly rangey, get
to the bottom of the numbers, or maybe a little
bit wider. But watch how Sam places this ball even
further away from the post safety is coming over and
drops it right inside of in Jigba's arms. It's really impressive,
(37:03):
not only his placement but the fact that he did
that rolling to his left as a right handed quarterback.
And he can hit you at any point with these
home run balls that a lot of guys can't do.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Yeah, No, he is.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
There is no question. John Snyder, the GM got a
third round pick for Gino. He got Sam basically for
less money than Gino. They hit it out of the park.
And also Sam's in his prime. Sam is still Sam
came into the league, so I think he's only twenty
seven or twenty eight. When you watch him play, you
can see he's right in the middle of his prime.
(37:38):
And he hasn't been banged up enough so the injuries linger.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
When I watch him play, I see an elite quarterback.
That's what I see.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
And he's given every former first round draft pick who
struggled hope because he went through Yeah, he went through everything.
He had multiple stops. And look, if you stay with
these guys that are extremely talented, everybody develops at different
rates and you may hit on Gino Smith did it,
and Sam's doing it. Baker, his second actor, has been impressive.
(38:08):
So all these guys that everybody's labeling as a bust,
who knows which one's going to hit next?
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Good stuff, Eric Mangini, Thanks Coach, great scene a com
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
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or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
There we go. It is a Wednesday. We're in Chicago.
Beautiful day Live. It's the Herd wherever you may be,
however you may be listening, whatever platform it is. Thanks
for making us part of your day. Joel Platt in
one hour got another look at the college football rankings
(00:49):
which become the college Football Playoff. You know, I saw
this morning certain things that just make me smile. I
don't know if you saw this. J Mac, you know,
the highest graded quarterback in the NFL the last two weeks.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
But forth, let me get a guess.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I'll go Caleb Williams. That's interesting, isn't this funny?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Highest rated PFF quarterback all year as a former Trojan
and currently the hottest USC Trojan.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I'm telling you they're coming back telling.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You so, I was thinking about this success in any field.
Any field can be law education. It's mostly masonry, one
brick at a time. Great parenting isn't the weekend birthday parties.
It's Monday through Friday, seven to eight to seven p.
Caleb Williams was flashy last year. Caleb Williams is still
(01:48):
flashy this year. But you want to know why he's
the highest credded quarterback. It's all the masonry. He proves
that young talented quarterbacks, even super hyper talented quarterbacks, they
just need a baseline of support and common sense. Ben
Johnson takes this job, does he say, Caleb, I want
(02:08):
more zany flashy plays.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
The first thing he addresses, we got to get better
at guard center guard. Not even the most dynamic offensive
line positions, the big uglies in the middle of the
old line. They get Jonah Jackson, Drew Dahlman. They get
Joe Toney guard center guard. The second thing he says, Hey,
I got to ask you something, Caleb, can you.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Not run backwards?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I want to eliminate the negative plays and the pre
stat penalties. Two basic masonry laying brick needs. And suddenly
he's the hottest quarterback in the league. Because when you're
not first and fifteen or first and twenty or second
in twenty eight because you got sacked running backwards, you
(02:57):
run the ball better, and you run the ball more often,
and that helps the core to back. Now, Patrick Mahomes
the way he entered the league, Hall of Fame coach,
great GM, great owner, Hall of Fame, tight end, Pro
Bowl wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
That car had no flat tires.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And Caleb entered the Bears with eber flues and that
staff and a battle line. Their were four flat tires.
But Caleb was not terrible last year. He was wildly flashy.
Twenty touchdown, six picks. It's all the little stuff that
makes great parenting and great quarterback. Yeah, we have much
better protection guard, center guard. We don't have any negative
(03:36):
plays pre snap stuff. What did Belichick say about Brady?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
What Tom?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You're always playing in front of the sticks. It's never
first and fifteen, it's never second and twenty two. Move
the ball ahead. Because the wild dynamic running thing that
is really really easy for Caleb Williams. That's in eight,
that's natural, that's gonna come. Caleb's success this year is
(04:01):
on all the minutia of the NFL guard play no
pre snap penalties last week, Minnesota at eight. Last week,
the Rams had no penalties either side. Efficiency matters whether
you're at Meta Fox Sports of the Bears. The Bears
are just more They're more efficient, they're more stable. I
(04:24):
was looking at Caleb Williams passer rating. Last year it
was eighty eight. This year it's ninety two. You look
at yards per attempt six point three to seven point three,
it's not that different. The one thing you see of
the sacks, no negative plays. Therefore you can establish a
(04:45):
run game. Therefore you're throwing on play accent. You couldn't
run the ball last year for Chicago, between the sacks
and the pre snap stuff. You were throwing it because
you had to throw it. Now you throw it because
you want to throw it. Totally different. But as Greg
Olson said yesterday, you know the hyper athletic stuff, that's
(05:06):
just who he is. He'll always have that. What he
needed was a grown up coach to do the small stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
When things break down in today's NFL, which is going
to be often past.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Protection is very difficult.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
The rushers are very good. Scheme is good. You have
to have a quarterback that can make second, second level plays,
meaning it's not the initial read, it's not the initial timing.
I got a playoff script. He can do that as
well as anyone. As they continue to get him into
more of the on time rhythm component of Ben Johnson's
drop that game. If that continues to develop, that's what
(05:40):
Chicago thought they were drafting last year.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yep, Caleb brings the sizzle, right, he brings the sizzle.
Ben Johnson just brought in a better stake. Success is
largely masonry in every field, one brig at a time,
the little stuff. So I've always had a rule on
my show basically, I have opinions, and you can have
(06:04):
opinion on my opinion, but I'm not going to have
an opinion on your opinion on my opinion. I'll make
an exception because I think this is instructive. So I
said the other day, I said, Micah Parsons is a
stud athlete, but through the years. This summer, I had
a conversation with a general manager and he said, don't
be surprised if Dallas moves off him even though he's
(06:25):
in his prime, because he's not.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
A versatile player.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
He's a great athlete and a great player, and he's
going to be a Hall of Famer. But the Cowboys
try to use him at linebacker and it didn't work.
He doesn't have fast eyes. He's one of those classic
Hassan Reddick was this. He's a much better player than
Hassan Reddick. See quarterback, go get him, sea ball, go
get it. There's no knock on that. He's a world
class athlete. Well, he didn't like when I said that.
(06:49):
He put up a tweet yesterday and said, hey, we
just held Saquon Barkley to sixty rushing yards. Our only
losses have been holding teams to thirteen points. Man, Sometimes,
can y'all please just blank any blank, stop giving people
mics or listening to trash. So let me just say
this about your great job against Saquon Barkley. Seven of
(07:12):
nine Philadelphia Eagle games this year, Saquon Barkley has rushed
for sixty yards or less. The Dallas Cowboys held them
to sixty yards. The Eagles can't run the football this year.
That wasn't great defense. That is the inability due to
injuries and other reasons. Philly can't run the ball this year.
That's why they're not as dominant. That was not a
(07:32):
great packer performance. It was a consistent Eagles run game performance.
So the Cowboys defense last year with Micah thirty first,
the Cowboys defense this year without Micah thirty first and again.
But the argument here isn't about who's right me or Micah.
It's this is instructive. There are certain players in the NFL,
(07:54):
very very infrequent professional athletes that do a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Wemby ball handle, hit a three block, a shot, post move,
Yo Kinsch can do everything. Best passer on the Nuggets,
best post guy in the Nuggets, best rebounder mostly on
the Nuggets.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Best shooter at times on the Nuggets. That is rare.
O Tawi can do everything.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Most baseball players, the great ones are Freddie Freeman, Man
can he hit Otani can do everything, Yo Kitchen, Wemby
are versatile. Luca is a great scorer. Carmelo Anthony was
a great score. He wasn't a great playmaker, a great defender,
a great rebounder. Melo and Luke are great scores. And
that for great players, even great players, that's it. Christian
(08:44):
McCaffrey's a versatile player. Vjon Robinson's a versatile player. Adrian
Peterson was just a great running back. Micah is essentially
Tyreek Hill for the record, both traded in their prime.
Greek Hill's never been a great blocker, he doesn't run
great routes, but he'll probably make the Hall of Fame
(09:06):
because man, he is great with the deep ball. But
Andy Reid moved off him. Brett Veach, arguably second best
gem in the league, moved off him. They moved off
him in his prime, and the Cowboys moved off Mike
in his prime. Cleveland's not moving off Miles Garrett. Raiders
aren't moving off Max Crosby. Steelers aren't moving off TJ.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Watt. Why because those are versatile at rushers. Mike is not.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
In his run with Alas Cowboys, they were twenty third
against the run, they got sacks, they got pressure, they
were twenty third against the run.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
So what Micah is? He's Tyreek Hill.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Both traded in their prime, Both unbelievable, Both will probably
make the Hall of Fame. Both highly productive. But Tyreek
Hill isn't Larry Fitzgerald. Okay, Larry Fitzgerald could do. Drake
London maybe the best red zone receiver he can be
an underneath receiver. Drake London can block Blake. Drake London
(10:08):
can be a deep threat. Drake London can be anything
you want him to be. Larry Fitzgerald can be anything.
Tyreek just goes deep. Micah is a sea ball sea quarterback.
Get it, and that has unbelievable value. But the Cowboys
tried them at linebacker. I was told bad GM doesn't
have great eyes. Can't put him in the coverage.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
It's not what he does.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And by great standards, ninety nine percent great athletes, not
just average guy. The great ones are more Freddie Freeman
than Otani. They're more Carmelo than you' Kitcher Wemby. They're
more Tyreek and Micah than Miles Garrett or Larry Fitzgerald
or Christian McCaffrey or Bejon Robinson, Kyle Hamilton jsend for
(10:50):
the Seahawks. You can put him on the sideline. You
can put him in the slot. Remember the late Aaron Hernandez.
He can play like six positions. Gronk's a tight end.
Okay is a tight end. Aaron hernandezhould put him in
the backfield. You could put him in the slot. You
could put him anywhere, So it's not a shot, it's instructive.
On Micah Mike is what he's always been, stud athlete,
(11:13):
five star recruit, disruptive pass rusher. And Tyreek Hill is
always what he was. Man can he get deep fast?
But very rarely do you get a player, even an
old timer, that does a bunch of stuff. Well, Christian
McCaffrey does so many things better than Adrian Peterson. But
(11:34):
if you told me I needed two yards and somebody
to run over a linebacker, I'd probably take Adrian Peterson.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Got Belichick New York Giant rumors, I believe it or not,
Belichick New York Giant rumors. I'm gonna quiz everybody this
hour on the show because we always talk about this
with young quarterbacks. How it's not linear, it's bumpy, it's up,
it's who's your coach, who's your offensive line. It's very interesting.
(12:04):
I'm going to ask everybody watching our show today, you're
the general manager, and I'm going to give you every
quarterback under twenty five, twenty five or under. I'm gonna
give you everyone, and by the end of today you
have to decide on a two hundred and fifty million
dollar extension.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Today's the last day you get.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Two guys who would be your two Just kind of
throw it out there. I'm gonna give you a couple
of minutes to study the midterm every quarterback twenty five
and undred. You're the GM today at the end of
the business day, you have to make a decision on
those twelve young quarterbacks. Two you get a signed today,
(12:48):
you have to.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So there's twelve.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It's about twelve. I'll look at the number again. Justin
Herbert one of them. No, no, no, he's now eclipsed.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Then he said, claps twenty five. Okay, this is setting
up so that Caleb william one of the two. Obviously, yes, yes,
I can tell already you love the Bears and Caleb Williams.
Now you got me worried. I had liked the Bears
against the Vikings, but this soliloquy you started off with,
I am a little nervous. I think JJ McCarthy shows
up big this weekend.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Oh okay, good luck.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
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(13:39):
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Speaker 1 (13:53):
YouTube, Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Fox College football is under the lights in primetime this week.
It's a battle in the Big Ten as Minnesota takes
on Dante More and number eight Oregon Friday night, nine pm.
He's turned six pm Pacific on Fox.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So Chase Daniel was talking the other day on a
podcast and he knows the Sean Payton Saints Denver system
very well offensively, and he said when he watches bow Nix,
he sees somebody that just doesn't he's not seeing it.
He's not seeing the stuff that's open. But it's interesting.
Everybody's good at spending somebody else's money. But if you
(14:35):
were a GM and this is what GMS go through.
I mean, Cleveland sat down in a room and said,
Baker's driving us crazy. We know he's talented, we're going
to let him go. They probably regret it now, Minnesota,
you know, do we keep Sam, we pay him this,
we let him go, Minnesota regrets it. So Stefanski's really smart,
Kevin O'Connell's really smart. And they let go of Baker
(14:58):
Mayfield and Sam Dar and now they're Pro Bowl level quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
The stuff is hard.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's easy when you get somebody on a discount, throw
on a rookie contract, you know, or you're spending somebody
else's money. But if I said, you're the general manager
and knowing that, the minute you pay a quarterback big money,
the roster will not look the same.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Like, for instance, if you paid Caleb.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Williams two hundred and ninety million dollars today, new contract.
We gotta let dj Moore go. We gotta let Joe
Tuny go. We can't pay for all of it, can't
can't get you gotta let now. I got Roma Dunza,
and I'll still have Drew Dolman and Jonah Jackson. I
probably gotta let Joe Tuney go Kansas City had to
(15:43):
let Joe Tuny go with protecting mahomes. They had to
let him go guard Okay. So all these things considered,
here are the quarterbacks in the NFL twenty five and under.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
There's a eleven. Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So if I said, you have until the end of
the business day today to make a decision two hundred
ninety three hundred million dollar contract, half of it guaranteed,
who are the three you would take? The easy one
is Drake May. Drake May wasn't great last year. He
was lousy in the opener against the Raiders, but the
(16:19):
last eight nine weeks that's a franchise quarterback. Drake May's
the easy one. You need three total. The next two
I would take are CJ. Stroud, who's hurt again and
his passer rating the last two years is eighty nine,
eight great, not really a starter, eighty nine. And the
(16:43):
next I would take his Caleb and his two years
in the NFL year and a half, his passer rating
hovers around ninety not great, okay. So and even with
Ben Johnson it's like ninety two and a half. That's
not great. I'd like upper nineties.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So the three twenty five at under and for our
radio audience, I'll read you the quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Jade and Daniels. Okay, I can't.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
He's hurt for the fourth time a year and a
half in Jackson Dart lives in the blue tent. JJ
McCarthy obvious reasons. Michael Pennix junior hurt in college. Looks
really really disappointing so far. Brock Purty small hurt again.
(17:30):
Max Jones went thirty three at thirty nine last weekend?
Has has brought ever done that? We're just asking, uh
camp Ward who knows Bryce Young probably not going to
extend him.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
So you start looking at all these.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
My three one with no hesitation as Drake may the
next two.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
C J.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Stroud has a couple of playoff wins, hurt again, ninety
passer rating last two years. I would reci and Caleb
because I think with Ben we're getting a truer version
of himself and it's about a ninety two passer rating.
But everybody bangs on bon Nicks. Let me remind you
of Bononis two things I want to remind you of.
(18:14):
In the fourth quarter this season, he's basically number one
at everything, first downs, game winning drives total touchdowns, second yards,
really good in the fourth quarter for the record. So
it's Caleb. The second thing is he's durable. He never
gets hurt. Go look at that list to get Jackson
Dart hurt, Jadon Daniels hurt, Bryce Young hurt, c J
(18:35):
Strout hurt.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Everybody's hurt. Everybody's banged up.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
BONNICKX and Caleb Williams and Drake May they don't get hurt.
Sean Payton this week on bon Nicks and speeding up
his game.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Internally, I think it's a plus and a minus.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
I've said that before. I think one of his great
strengths has not taken sacks, and so the claw in
his head relative to that sense of urgency. So I
think there is a fine line. I think that's a
much easier problem to correct than the latter, which is
taking the sacks, and historically speaking, it's proven to be
(19:16):
much more difficult to fix.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, so he's probably letting go of the ball a
step early, not a step late. He's playing a little fast,
a little frenetic. But you I'm always amazed by people
that overlook durability. How many times is Brock Purdy going
to be hurt. How many times is Jackson Dark going
(19:39):
to go to the blue tenth? Bonix never gets hurt,
Caleb Williams never gets hurt. I need my guys there. So,
like I said this about mac Jones, Mac Jones, I
don't see a lot of injuries. Brock Purty hurt again
all the time. I don't know how you can overlook that.
Cam Ward, it's almost unfair to put him in there.
He has no support. He could be really good eventually.
(20:02):
But if I said, you got to pick three guys
and you gotta write the check, knowing when you write
the check, you gotta let people go. Now, Drake May
you can sign that check. They're not paying anybody, so
they wouldn't have to let people go. Travon Henderson rookie,
Kyle Williams receiver, rookie, So they're in a good space.
Will Campbell left can't tackle rookie. They're in a really
(20:22):
good space. But Caleb, if you sign him, or CJ. Stroud,
if you sign him, you gotta let people go. So
bow knicks, everybody's banging on bow knicks. Durable wins games
great in the fourth quarter. What is Caleb this year?
Durable wins games great in the fourth quarter. I'm sorry
for me. I'm into that. I've worked with people in
(20:45):
this industry that are really talented, they're just not dependable.
High and low don't get them every day. We talked
about masonry. So I don't know, you don't have to
like bo Nicks and how he's the best fourth quarterback
in the league right now. He's never hurt and he
(21:08):
wins games. He's eighteen and nine in a division with
Mahomes and Herbert and Harbaugh, spaggs, Andy Reid.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I know that's a very disappointing segment for you.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
This is an awesome segment. I love this idea, So
I'm going to break it down for you where I
agree and disagree. So I think let's process of elimination
right off the bat. You can eliminate three guys. They're
not in the mix. Bryce Young out, Michael Pennix out,
bow Nicks out those three guys, and you.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
And I don't agree on that. I like the durable
guy that wins games.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Well again, you know we have two years worth of
data and his numbers are not good at all. Yes,
he has been able to finagle some wins with Sean
Payton beat a lot of bad teams, but I would
eliminate bo Nicks. Not enough data so far, Kim Ward,
I don't think you can make a decision. Jackson Dart,
I know we love him, but can't make a decision.
And JJ McCarthy you cannot. He's had four starts, okay,
(22:01):
So that leaves five guys for do you want two
or three spots?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Three spots?
Speaker 5 (22:05):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Drake May I think you're right based on the two
years we've seen. I think he's in. I do believe
you're missing on Brock Purty. And why is that, Colin?
Because he's played more than all these guys. Brock Purty
has played way more games than Caleb Williams. He has
more wins, but you love obviously more touchdown more games.
He had two game winning drives in the postseason two
(22:28):
years ago. I know Caleb has four this year. Whoa
Rock Purdy has two in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Purdy has his yards per attempt or eight point eight
in his career. Caleb Williams only six point eight. Lot
of dink and dunk. So I think Rock purtys a lock.
I think Brock Purty is after Drake May and then
you go between Caleb Stroud and date Jayden Daniels, and
Caleb has looked good. But con do you think you're
being a little emotional?
Speaker 4 (22:54):
You now moved to Chicago. Caleb's on a heater.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
If I told you you'd never seen anybody play, I said,
I'm gonna give you this significantly better athlete who never
gets hurt.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Well, no, he doesn't never get hurt. He just hasn't
been hurt. I mean he's played like twenty five games
or something.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Caleb didn't get hurt last year. He didn't get hurt
in college, he didn't get hurt in high school. He's
not hurt this year. If I told you you did
it with Brock Purty and Caleb Williams, you'd never seen
him play, I said, one guy, much better arm, also
significantly more athletic and way more durable.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Not a GM in the league that would take.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Now here's the big thing with Caleb. So last year
he didn't look good at all. Numbers were horrible, body language.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Let's stop, let's stop. Twenty touchdowns, six picks, and a
passer rating close to ninety.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
It wasn't those are three numbers.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
There's a billion numbers that go into the equation. But
he changed coaches and upgraded to Ben Johnson, so now
he has basically Brock Perty has Scott Shanahan, and Caleb
has Ben Johnson, and Brock Perdy's data compared to Caleb's
so far is night and day. Rock Perty's been the
better quarterback by almost every metric.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
When he has more starts, and he has a veteran coach,
and he has Christian McCaffrey as em McCaffery, and he's.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Hurt all the time, and he's hurt again.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And mac Jones just put up a Sunday better than
any brock Purtty ever did from the pocket.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I mean, Tyson Bagent filled in last year and was
like capable, Remember he had a starter or too low.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I think nobody, nobody thinks I know Tyson Bagent is
Caleb mac Jones last week. That's a better That's a
better Sunday in the pocket than brock Pertty never had
thirty three to thirty nine with backups.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Just by the completion for cents. Listen, I get it,
you're out on pretty. He had the shoulder injury in
the playoffs and then the toe thing this year. I mean,
if he's injury prone, I don't know what joke that
makes Joe Burrow injuries happened though, I mean, come on,
Jayden Daniels flukey putting his arm down hyper extended.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Mahomes is never hurt, and Josh Allen's not hurt, and
Caleb's not hurt hur and bo Nix isn't hurt, and
Eli Manning didn't get hurt. And I mean the truth is,
most of Aaron Rodgers' career he didn't get hurt, and
most of Brady's he didn't get hurt. And I think
some guys are just brittle and small. By the way,
too is hurt, and then Kyler gets banged up, and
(25:15):
Bryce Young is hurt, and brock Perty's not big as well.
I don't think it's just coincidence. Like I don't think
it's coincidence. The Jags have all these great picks and
none of them pan out, and yet and yet Mike
Rabel gets his top picks this year, his top three picks,
they all work out. I don't think that's I don't
think that's osmosis happenstance. Smart people bigger, stronger, durable athletes
(25:40):
over time is who I'm with. I've always told you
that before. I like traits and trunky and thick. I
like all that stuff. That stuff matters to me.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
If you're a.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Little small, a little thin, you become Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
neon Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Really coached the Jets, he coached the Cleveland Browns. In fact,
he with the two thousand and six AFC Coach of
the Year with the Jets. But things turned fast in
New York. Eric Mangini. First things first is joining us live.
So I suggested, I said, I think I would go
get Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
It's New York. I want coaching experience.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
He won with Cooper Rush, he won with Dak He
won with Aaron that was called boring and uninspiring As
an option, Is Mike McCarthy sound boring and uninspiring? I
don't know if I'd want to go with another coordinator
in New York. Coughlin was a head coach at Boston
College Jacksonville, New York. He could handle New York. McCarthy's
(26:49):
had Jerry Big Packers brand McCarthy feels like they're right
fit to me in New York.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Am I nuts? You're not nuts?
Speaker 7 (26:57):
So you for an organization that's had as many problems
as the Giants, to get an established head coach with
the experience and and who's not going to go through
that learning curve is really attractive. But typically guys don't
get three head coaching shots. That's that's not the norm.
To me, this would have been if Bill had sat
If Bill Belichick had sat out a year, another year
(27:20):
and and been available, I think this would have been
a really interesting story and it could have gone full circle.
And I that's not a great fit either because of
his age and and some of the personnel issues he's had,
but that that at least is a compelling storyline, and
you'd know he'd get the defense fixed at a minimum.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't love Belichick.
Speaker 7 (27:45):
I I yeah, I don't love North Carolina Belichick going there.
I think it's I think that that has kind of
allowed the shift to sail.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
What do you make if the Giants keeping their GM,
Joe Shane.
Speaker 7 (27:59):
I don't understand it at all con And look, I'm
a little bit biased with Brian Dayball because I've had
a long relationship with him and he's worked for me,
and I know what a good coach he is, and
he was Coach of the Year to start. But we
all saw on TV that they GM wanted to move
on from Saquon Barkley, and he definitely wasn't going to
go in the division and he wasn't worth what anybody
(28:19):
who was going to pay him. And then he goes
and has almost an MVP type season and arguably could
have been the MVP if we didn't always name a quarterback.
And then they do that to keep Daniel Jones, and
then they move on from Daniel Jones, they eat all
of the dead money, and here we are a year
later and Daniel Jones is doing what he's doing with
the Colts. So that's the guy making the ultimate personnel decisions.
(28:42):
Those are two dramatic organizational shaping decisions that not only
affect you short term but long term because of the
dead money. And yet you have your job and the
coach is fired mid season. Doesn't seem to make a
lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, Okay, so I said this earlier.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I said, with these young quarterbacks, two things are true.
It's usually not linear. It's bumpy. It's up, it's down
at streaky. Second thing who they get is they're opening
coach matters, especially like you're Sam Darnold twenty one. You
didn't have a great coach in college. You go to
the NFL, it's Adam Gase. It's like, that's a lot.
That's a lot. So I said, here's the eleven quarterbacks
(29:27):
twenty five and under. If by the end of today
business day, you have to sign a three hundred million
dollar you know, one hundred and sixties guaranteed. I said,
Drake May is my absolute, c J. Stroud and Caleb
Williams probably my next two.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
But half of these I defended bon Nicks.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I'm like, he's durable, he never gets hurt, he's excellent
late in games college and pro, and he wins a
bunch of games. I know it's not pretty, but if
I told you is there are are there you guys
you could write that check for today of those.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
Eleven, yeah, I wouldn't be signing a check for Drake May.
At this point. Drake May to me, this year's Jayden
Daniels and Jayden. Daniels was last year's c J. Stroud,
that's all it was. And he's hot right now. And
everybody loves Drake may just like we love Jayden just
like we love CJ. Well, you've got to be able
to see these guys do it consistently and continue to improve.
(30:26):
But look at the list of guys who've gotten big money,
love to a Herbert Trevor Purdy, the forty nine ers
paying Purty over a quarter of a billion dollars, and
now mac Jones goes out there and he's playing at
a really high level for three percent of what Perty's making.
So you make these decisions that then affect everything moving
(30:50):
forward because those guys have to be forced multipliers because
you can't then go pay everybody else. The quarterback just
makes too much money. So to me, I I still
like Jade and Daniels a lot. He would probably be
my top guy.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
On that list.
Speaker 7 (31:04):
And then after that, it's it's a it's a craft shoot,
it's it's a who knows whether these guys are going
to continue to elevate or whether we're going to see,
you know, the sputtering out. You'd like to think CJ.
Stroud is a franchise guy. But there's been a lot
of ups and downs that I didn't expect, you know,
at this level to be.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, hey, we were talking about Green Bay. Is that
they're broken.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
They haven't scored on their opening drive since Dallas Week four.
So the scripted stuff's not good. The running game's not good.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Craft is a great tight end out for the year,
read a clever receiver. He's banged up, Golden didn't play.
Is it Lafleur, is it Love? Is it the injuries? Like,
how do you solve mid season a broken offense?
Speaker 7 (31:56):
The Tucker Craft injury was a really bad one. He
was he was looking like a pretty big safety blanket
for Jordan Love. And when you look at Jordan Love
over the course of his career, he's typically either red
hot or mid. He's in that sort of seventy to
eighty quarterback rating range, and that's been frustrating to see.
(32:21):
They do a lot of good things. They're willing to
run the ball, they're number one and third down, they're
pretty effective in the red area. But yet we see
what we saw in the last few games. Now, I
do think we need to grade the Eagles on a curve.
This Eagles defense, to me, has gotten better. And then
they got reinforcements with Jalen Phillips, So that's a better
(32:44):
defense than what they've been throughout the course of the year.
It's the it's the Cleveland Browns loss, it's the Carolina
Panthers loss, it's the Dallas Cowboys tie. It's playing down
your level of comp And then for Jordan Love, there's
another great situation where they paid him a ton of
money and you're expecting him to continue to elevate, but
(33:06):
it's taken longer than I think people expected because of
how much he makes.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
So I want to go back and I said this.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I watched this Mendoza kid this weekend at Indiana, and
that to me, big big arm can move a little
lots of college starts. That's an NFL quarterback. That last
drive against Penn State on the road, I mean Eric,
it was just boom, boom, boom, and I mean he
had people in his face, like that offensive line got
pushed around, they couldn't run the ball. It was like
(33:34):
that drive was that was a Sunday drive. Dante More
reportedly might stay a lot of these college kids now
with nil they might stay and I said, well, I
may go mac Jones. I'd go Mendoza mac Jones. But
my broader point was that's what Indiana did. They said,
we're not going to draft another quarterback. We're going to
(33:55):
get somebody in the league, Daniel Jones. Seattle said, we're
not going to draft another quarterback. We're gonna get Sam Donald.
That's what Tampa said, Jason light the GM, let's go
get Baker. So Mendoza to me's a slam dunk. Mac
Jones would be my second pick. The rest of these
guys aren't ready to star. Let's talk Sam Donald, who
I would have never and I stayed with him the
(34:16):
whole time. But I don't think he's just a reclamation project.
I think he looks like a top five quarterback. Now
maybe he's not. But you broke down some film this week.
What do you see all your years in the NFL,
what do you see with Donald?
Speaker 7 (34:31):
Yes, the Sam Donald elevation really started at the end
of Carolina. He's four and two at Carolina and then
he goes has a really outstanding season last year. Now
the end of the season that hurt him, and I
think I think that's still the big question mark with him.
And now he moves to Seattle, and what he's been
so good at is the deep ball and passes over
(34:53):
ten yards. He's first in completions, he's first in yards,
he's first in touchdowns, he's first in quarterback. He's got
all all those things going for him. You know, he
struggled a little bit in the second half, and we're
gonna have to see how it goes when he gets.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
To the playoffs.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
But let me let me show you a deep ball
play that he had against the Cardinals, which is a
really good look at what he can do and why
he's so effective. So this is actually the first drive
of the game and they just literally cross midfield a
couple plays earlier. They're gonna run hard sell play action,
and with the hard sell play action, they're gonna end
(35:29):
up blocking eight. So they're gonna block the five offensive lineman,
the two tight ends, and the running back is going
to stay in as well. And then Sam does a
really good job on these play action fakes. You can
see him extend the arm out here. He's selling it.
And now Seattle's just going to run a two man route.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
So they've got.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Shaheed running the over and then Jackson Smith and Jigba.
He's going to push vertically, then he's going to drive
out to freeze the cornerback. Then he's going to push
up the field.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
But it's simply a two man route.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
And then with the Cardinals, they're actually very effective at
stopping deep balls. They're bringing pressure here and they actually
get more pressures because so many guys bite on the
play accident and they've got a three deep zone behind it,
so they're in a great defense to stop the deep ball.
Seattle rolls Donald out to his left. He's a right
handed quarterback. Typically you throw this moving him to his
(36:20):
dominant arm, not a way from his dominant arm. Looking
at Jigbok, he pushes out. Now that freezes the cornerback,
the cornerback who is high on him, and you can
see Donald's gonna let this go even though in Jigba's
not on top of the cornerback right now. He's got
the confidence that he's going to be. But here's what's
so important. He's outside the numbers. He's on top of
the cornerback, but he's outside the numbers because he's got
(36:42):
to stay away from this post safety, who could potentially,
if he's got a good break and fairly rangey, get
to the bottom of the numbers, or maybe a little
bit wider. But watch how Sam places this ball even
further away from the post safety is coming over and
drops it right inside of in Jigba's arms. It's really impressive,
(37:03):
not only his placement but the fact that he did
that rolling to his left as a right handed quarterback.
And he can hit you at any point with these
home run balls that a lot of guys can't do.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Yeah, No, he is.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
There is no question. John Snyder, the GM got a
third round pick for Gino. He got Sam basically for
less money than Gino. They hit it out of the park.
And also Sam's in his prime. Sam is still Sam
came into the league, so I think he's only twenty
seven or twenty eight. When you watch him play, you
can see he's right in the middle of his prime.
(37:38):
And he hasn't been banged up enough so the injuries linger.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
When I watch him play, I see an elite quarterback.
That's what I see.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
And he's given every former first round draft pick who
struggled hope because he went through Yeah, he went through everything.
He had multiple stops. And look, if you stay with
these guys that are extremely talented, everybody develops at different
rates and you may hit on Gino Smith did it,
and Sam's doing it. Baker, his second actor, has been impressive.
(38:08):
So all these guys that everybody's labeling as a bust,
who knows which one's going to hit next?
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Good stuff, Eric Mangini, Thanks Coach, great scene a com
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