December 22, 2025 • 34 mins
Colin Cowherd gives Aaron Rodgers all the credit for the Steelers securing another winning season and taking control of their playoff destiny.
He releases this week’s Where Colin Was Right, Where Colin Was Wrong – what he got right about Drake Maye and the Patriots but what he missed about Trevor Lawrence and the Jaguars.
Plus, 3-time Pro Bowl QB Matt Hasselbeck joins the show to tell Colin why the Bears are having their best season in years under new head coach Ben Johnson and QB Caleb Williams.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It
is a Monday, man.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Do we have a lot to talk about one hour
from now? Where Colin was right? Where Colin was wrong?
There's always plenty of both. Urban Meyer stops by Matt Hasselbeck.
We're live in Chicago, Holiday greetings. I mean it was
(00:51):
so Pittsburgh Steeler. I've been saying all year. I've been
saying before the year, this offense in Pittsburgh it's like
Quicksand what's Rogers doing going to this offense? And my
larger point and belief stands they don't have a long
term quarterback. They spend way too much money on defense.
(01:12):
I do think Aaron's duct tape for at least this year,
in another year, but Mike Tomlin, Aaron Rodgers, and the
Steelers deserve credit. In a weekend AFC no Mahomes Borough right,
they may pick up their first playoff.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Win in nine seasons.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I mean, they had almost five yards of offense, an
unbelievable run game, and it's getting better. In the last
three weeks they're averaging over six yards of play. That is,
those are big boy numbers, So it's getting better. Aaron
Rodgers said, you know, get me my guys, mvs. Adam
Feelin and you know it's typical Steeler fashion, a wide receiver,
(01:53):
high maintenance drama.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know, you got to always deal with that.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And despite the fact that at two hundred and third
to fifteen rush advantage, they had to hold on for
dear life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It was Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
But I will say this about Aaron, He's just a
lot of quarterback play is just getting you out of trouble.
He's made the offense slicker and smarter. You know, he
just he takes what's available, not a lot of negative plays.
Right now, Aaron Rodgers leads the entire NFL in fastest release.
He's getting rid of the ball faster than any other quarterback.
(02:27):
He's forty two. He doesn't want to get hit and
he doesn't want that Steeler.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
O line to get into trouble.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Because they really don't have the kind of receiving core
or consistent run game that had yesterday that can get
them out of trouble. So Aaron's like, give me the ball,
let's get it out, stay ahead of the chains. I
feel like Aaron has become like the oil the lubrication
for an offensive machine, where the gears for the last
seven years have been getting stuck, and he just comes in,
(02:56):
get rid of the ball, audible, into the right play
what's available, don't get greedy.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
It's really smart.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And by the way, this is the most impressed I've
been with Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
In a long time.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, what about Green Bay? Everybody wins in Green Bay.
Help Malik Willis looked great last Saturday, Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love,
Brett Faff, everybody looks good in Green Bay. A quarterbacks,
backups come in. Malik Willis their dynamic. This offense Pittsburgh
for seven years, they can't run the ball, the old
line doesn't work. They you know, turnstyle offensive coordinator. Aaron
(03:30):
gets the credit for this. He gets the credit the
longer this goes on this season, last three weeks, brings
his friends in at wide receiver. It's just it works.
Jalen Warren two forty five yard runs dominate the Lions.
Lions have their own problems, but you know here's you got.
Lamar Jackson can't stay healthy. You got Joe Burrow can't
(03:52):
stay healthy. And Aaron's forty two, and he's like, I'm
staying healthy. I'm gonna be available for my team. So
he's just done all the little thing. It's amazing what
coaching can do, or really smart veteran quarterback play. It's
not always what they do, it's what they don't do.
They don't throw picks, they don't take bad sacks. You know,
(04:12):
they audible in and out of trouble and into advantages.
So Mike Tomlin, you know, you say what you want.
And I've had my grievances with Mike Tomlin. Here they
are again looking at a potential division championship.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Thankful of the fight and to win. And we'll keep
pushing because that's what you got to do this time
of year. Win or lose, you got to keep pushing,
and we will. We're coming in to Marrow to watch
the tape. We ain't got time for victory Monday's and
that's what I told the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Team Okay, now, let's go to the team that lost
Detroit one. Coach one has really changed the direction of
two franchises in the same division. Ben Johnson used to
be at Detroit and wow, were they dynamic. The craziest
third and fourth down team in the league. Look at
(05:05):
him now. He left and went to Chicago, and the
Bears are eleven and four and the best fourth quarter
team in the NFL for the record of the Cowboys
weren't interested in Ben Johnson. Congratulations, But the Bears who
have poor ownership, I mean, like literally the poorest ownership
and years of dysfunction upstairs, and you watch them. Yeah,
(05:27):
it's been a work in progress. But I've heard this
before from athletes, the great athletes, and Caleb Williams is
a generational talent.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
He is special.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
They want Caleb Williams wanted to be coached hard. He said,
there's nobody to watch film with me. He wanted to
be coached hard. He wanted somebody to get on him
and enter Ben Johnson. I mean, Patrick Mahomes didn't become
Patrick Mahomes because Andy Reid pandered. They disagree. The volume
goes up, so and Caleb's got an ability to make
(05:58):
the hard look easy. Easy looks a little difficult. But
the entire Bears organization. You know, again, once you get
the coach right Vrabel in New England, Sean Payton and Denver,
Jim Harbaugh with the Chargers Ben Johnson, he doesn't take long. Literally,
it takes like six to eight weeks. You build the staff,
(06:19):
you get the planning, and then slowly but surely you
get into week six, week nine, week twelve, week fifteen,
you look up, this is a really good team. They
do all the things that winning teams do. They win
the turnover battle, they run the football. They've been lucky
a little bit with health, mostly a very healthy team.
They don't have negative plays. So you're seeing the same
(06:41):
thing in New England with Rabel, Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh.
I mean, last year the Bears just a simple thing.
Last year, do you remember this, The Bears were the
worst fourth quarter team in the league. They couldn't even
script plays appropriately. Now third best, So they start smartly,
they finish strongly, and again they've just gotten out of
(07:06):
the stuff that loses games. No turnovers, no negative plays.
The operation, the basic fundamentals looks organized and then of
course you have Caleb Williams, who really is a unique talent.
Here's the walkoff touchdown?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Are the fake Williams looking downfield? Orson downfield? Good God, Djama.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And great coaches are like great movie directors. You got
to let the star kind of do his thing, however,
with a clear identity of what the movie is and
what the game plan is. And people are going to say, well,
I mean the Bears got a little bit lucky. They
recovered the on side kick no time out. They also
(08:08):
had two game winning drives, and they also in overtime
stop the Packers.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So it's not just well.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Teams block punts all the time, teams recover on sidekicks.
What do you do with the opportunities presented and well coached?
Last night New England could have lost that puppy. New
England maybe gets a big interception or a fumble recovery, Well,
what do they do with it? Well coached teams take
(08:38):
advantage of those little breaks that every team in the
league gets. Yep, the onside kick. Gotta be honest, that
kind of surprised me. But it's what they did with it.
And here's Caleb.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
After I got the best coach in the world. Let's
put it. Let's put it that way. And we have
the best coaching staff in the world. And so you
put the talent with the coaches and the people that care.
You can strive for anything, you can reach anything, you
can go after any goal. And when you go out
(09:10):
there in the football field, your belief is at all
time high between players, between coaches, and you know you
have outcomes like this.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, it is uh.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Ryan was at the game, and the environment for anybody,
we all had different environments. One of our guys was
in a Chicago bar, one was at the game. I'm
at home. It's like you could hear neighbors streaming. Chicago
has been waiting so long, not to just win games,
but to have a team like this that's offensively electric,
(09:42):
that's offensively dynamic. That's just not what Chicago does. Like
in La every great Lakers team, they're always fun and
offensive minded and they've got show time. Chicago's always won
one way, win one way. They went with defense, they
went with toughness. To have it a electric offense is
really unique and the city is feeling it this morning.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I know there's some quarterbacks banged up that won't make
the playoffs. But we have a lot of young quarterbacks
your Bo Nicks, you'r Drake May, You're Caleb that are
gonna be in CJ. Stroud. Then we have older quarterbacks
that Herbert that's had to overcome an offensive line, Jordan
Love uh when if they get in, he's had to
overcome an injury.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
And you know they lose.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Christian Watson and some of their star defensive players.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So it's.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I kind of feel like it's gonna be an interesting mix.
No Mahomes, no Borough, Proino, Lamar, but it'll be an
interesting mix of young and dynamic and old and Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
We're gonna have a wild January.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
I'm one hundred percent with you. It feels like a
new era, Colin. All these young quarterbacks ushered in out
with the old. Sorry guys, Lamar, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I don't know when.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
They're gonna get back to the playoffs. I mean, you
talked about it last week. The Chiefs had a major rebuild.
Colin Ravens. You watched it. Roster last Nay, they don't
have anybody at all. The roster's terrible. Lamar's lost a step.
It feels like the new era of quarterbacks is here.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app Pauly Fools Go Here
with Tony Foosco. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
As everybody knows, we're the hosts of the award winning
Polly and Tony Foodsco Show. Yeah, but instead of us
telling you how great we are, here's how Dan Patrick
described us when he came on our show.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Quick, knowledgeable and funny, opinionated.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
What are you doing?
Speaker 7 (11:34):
Were interrupting our promo?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, you wasn't talking about you.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
You took those clips totally of context.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Oh yeah, well after this promo, I'm gonna take you
out and beat you.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Let me put this into context.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Shut up.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Yeah, anyway, just listen to the Paully and Tony Fusco
Show on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yee, here we go.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It's our two loaded good one tonight too.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
The forty nine.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Ers still haven't lost a blazing five pick yet three
to zero to one. J McK and I have both
had good weekends. Matt Hasselbeck's around the corner. So yeah,
all weekend long, people are complaining about the college football playoffs.
I can't believe this team got in and that team
(12:24):
got in. Go to March Madness. You keep telling me
that's the greatest sporting event in the world. Like twenty
five teams that get into that thing unwatchable? Bottom line,
Do you get the top sixteen college basketball teams in?
Do you get the top sixteen in the rest of
It's filler? That's how I feel about this thing. Do
you get the top eight teams in? Hey got four
(12:44):
teams that you know. We know. Texas probably better than
James Madison's I think we could agree Notre Dames better
than two lane, but they had their opportunity.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Notre Dame played Texas and Miami couldn't win either. I mean,
the regular season's got.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
To mean something, so I think the college football playoff
I can't wait to watch the next seven games. Here
we go, Colin right, Colin wrong?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Where Colin was right?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
New England was my surprise playoff pick. Fourth year in
a row. My surprise playoff team has made it twelve
and three tripled their win total. Could still land the
number one seed. You know, it's amazing what they've done
offensively from thirty first to six.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The Kyle Williams great play.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
We talked about him as he was a tremendously gifted
college player, Stefan Diggs, Hunter, Henry. It's a big playoffense
and it last year there was none of that juice.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So we got that one right.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Where Colin was wrong. Mike Tomlin once again secure as
a winning season. They could actually win eleven games in Pittsburgh. Now,
the game got a little squirrely in the end, but
make no doubt about it. Pittsburgh was absolutely the better team,
holding Detroit to fifteen rushing yards. And I'll listen, are
(14:00):
they good enough to win a playoff game? I don't know,
but they ran the ball. They haven't done that consistently
in years. Aaron has been tremendous. He gets him out
of trouble. No negative plays.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
In the end. I was wrong where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Slinging Sammy d leads his division, Seattle leads the NFL
in point differential. What's interesting with sam He's completing sixty
seven percent of his throats.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That's a career high.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
But he's also near the top in yards per attempt,
so it's no dinking dunk.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
He's throwing the ball down the field.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Twenty four total touchdowns the last two years. He has
more passing touchdowns than Josh Allen, so first quarterback ever,
back to back seasons, two different teams to win twelve games.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Right on, Sammy, where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I love Trevor Lawrence for years, but all the turnovers
I surrendered. They were five and four after losing the
the Texans, I'm like, I'm done, and then they got
in a heater. Liam Cohen deserves a ton of credit.
I didn't even have him in my hurt hierarchy until
last week. But they've just got a lot of good players,
you know what I mean. It's like Parker Washington, where'd
(15:16):
he come from? They could end up thirteen and four.
Trevor Lawrence has kind of gotten out of being lured
into bad interceptions. They deserve all the credit in the world.
Just the minute I gave up on Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
He pivoted where Colin was right New.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
York Jet Now, excuse me, New York Giant fans, Colin,
You're crazy thinking we should draft Fernando Mendoza. Yeah, Jackson
Dart had one completion in the first half. His coaching
staff was terrified to let him throw the ball. I
got nothing against Jackson Dark, but if you notice the
more we see of him last couple of starts, it's.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Got a sixty eight passer rating. Well, they don't have this,
they don't have that. Boy.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I mean, I think Jackson Dart been a pleasant surprise
like him, but the fact that you wouldn't consider Mendoza
with the number one pick, wouldn't consider it. You're the
New York Giants, You've been unwatchable for a decade. You
got to consider everything.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
The Carolina Panthers start of the season one in three,
I'm like, come on, this is a bush league operation.
But Dan Morgan, former player, GM nice draft, Dave Kanalis
steadied the ship, you know. I mean Bryce Young fifth
year extension, he moves, he's got a star receiver, one
(16:35):
hundred and two passer rating, couple of tunnies, no picks.
So again, do we wish he was bigger and had
a bigger arm. Probably, But when I watched Carolina, I'm like,
I just watched Bryce Young outplay Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That's impressive.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Where Colin was right, Kaylin de Boor, don't listen to
the trolls. He is a top five head coach to
go into Norman, fall behind seventeen to nothing and then
take the game over.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
He's not gonna be Saban.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
First of all, the SEC now has Texas schools, it's deeper,
the Big ten's better, and the money runs everything. Now
you can't stack rosters like Nick Saban could do. Even
Kirby smart Georgia had last two years. Doesn't look like Georgia.
They're just a really good team. So don't listen to anybody,
Kaylin de Boor off of Nick Saban. That's as good
(17:23):
as you can do as an athletic director. That's that's
as good as you can do.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Miami Hurricanes kept saying, folks, watch this defense all year long.
I said, I don't buy in Texas A and m
I said all week Miami's going to go in there.
I don't want to hear that Mario christa ball. You
don't trust him. Miami is going to control this football game.
Their defense is fast and physical and Mario crystabaal.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And they're nil money they got dudes.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I mean you just you watch. It's that defense they got, dudes. Now,
can they beat Ohio State? I'm not sure if anybody can.
But that defense will keep them in every game they play.
So for all the Miami Hurricane doubters, sorry, they're legit.
That defense as good as anything, maybe even Ohio State's defense.
(18:20):
Colin right wrong on a Monday, and here's Matt Hasselback
eighteen years in the.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
NFL joining US Live. So you know, it's.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
A lot of teams feel like, Okay, they're a regular
season story. I'm not sure if it translates when you
watch New England. I don't think i'd be shocked if
they were one and done. But do you think what
they do translates to January in the postseason?
Speaker 7 (18:46):
Yeah, one hundred percent. They just got to stay healthy.
Speaker 8 (18:49):
Listen, this is a team that no one even expected
to be in the playoffs this year. I think maybe
you're the only guy, actually you called it, but not
even Mike Vrabel the way they talked about it. They
traded away all their captains like they were just we're
building something for success down the road. So the success
of Drake may in this offense has been incredible. They
use free agency mostly to fix the defense, and the
(19:09):
defense really hasn't been what it's been because Milton Williams
has been out, Spallane's been out. But no, I think
what the big question mark was can we protect Drake
may can Drake may be Drake Drake may May And
he's been that, you know, even without his left tackle out,
without his left tackle in there, and on the third
string tackle yesterday. So no, this this team is I
(19:30):
think built for it. I think they're one of the
best teams in the AFC, and I do believe the
coaching matters, and Mike Rabel and Josh McDaniels and those
guys are proven.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
It one of my favorite And then I said, I'm
really impressed with Aaron And you could say, well, what
about green Bay? Well, far warn in green Bay, Jordan
love One, Malik Willis looked great. Aaron like Green Bay
does quarterback right, like you know, it's no chaos. They
always have good old lines. Obviously, he's a great Hall
of Fame talent, but Pittsburgh was offensive quicksand one of
(20:00):
my favorite stats is Aaron Is letting go of the
ball faster than any quarterback in the league, like you know,
like and I don't blame him, but with this offense,
it kind of works. It's a size offense. It's not twitchy,
it's not quick, it's just gigantic.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Men.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I mean I watch Aaron, I'm like, this is exactly
what this offense should have. They're not good enough to
overcome negative plays. They don't run it consistently. I'm kind
of blown away by what Aaron's done because this offense
for seven years, Matt, they couldn't get anything right. I mean,
what do you make of what he's done.
Speaker 8 (20:33):
Well, they haven't been very consistent this year either, you know,
they've been like, oh, we're going to be an empty
team and then we're going to try to run.
Speaker 7 (20:39):
And we can.
Speaker 8 (20:40):
But yesterday I thought was the start of what they
hoped to be. And you hear Mike Tomlin talk about
December football. What you got to do to win at
this time of year. You got to be able to
run the ball, and you got to be able to
stop the run. They ran for almost two hundred yards
yesterday against Detroit, and then they shut Detroit's run game down,
completely shut it down. So I think this is exact
factly what I've been sort of begging for from Aaron
(21:02):
Rodgers and the Steelers Arthur Smith. Aaron Rodgers sees it all.
He's a historian of the game. There's nothing a defense
can do. Let him be the maestro, be the conductor
of the orchestra, the point guard.
Speaker 7 (21:15):
He doesn't need to be Michael Jordan.
Speaker 8 (21:16):
He can just get us into the perfect play, give
us explosive runs, throw a perfect back shoulder throw to
a guy like DK. But the question is now, and
maybe this actually helps him in a way. If DK
is suspended, are they going to lean in more to
that run game and to Aaron Rodgers getting us into
audibles in the perfect run looks with thirteen personnel, three
(21:38):
tight ends, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
That's what I.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
Think they need to do anyway, And then they'll get
DK back, and then you leave him one on one.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
We got Aaron Rodgers, the Hall of Fame thrower.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
You know, there used to be it's called there's a
tournament baseball A bad ball hitter. I think it was
Vlad Guerrero was known. Vlad Garrero would hit pitches you
shouldn't even swing at off.
Speaker 7 (21:59):
Your gloves too, which is hard to do, Colin.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I watched Caleb. The layups I'm not sure about, but
some of the plays he makes, I'm like, what, it's
just different. It's hard for me to find a prototype.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You tell me what you see.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
Listen this. The last two weeks have been great.
Speaker 8 (22:20):
You know, he out duels or Sanders against Cleveland, against
Malik Willis. He clearly was the guy at the moment
of truth, when the game is on the line, when
your best is required, he delivered. Absolutely. He makes the
hard things look easy. He makes the easy things look hard,
which is great. If you're a coach, you say, hey,
I can coach you into the easy stuff. You just
(22:40):
got to trust me, and you got to do all
the little things that you probably don't think matter. But
I'm telling you, because I'm a coach and I'm older
and wiser, they matter. And that's what your job is
as a coach. Because he has this stuff that you
can't coach. And you know, some of the other stuff
I think will come with experience, the stuff at the podium.
When there's an interception, don't say we through an interception.
(23:01):
And when there's a great play, don't say, oh, I've
played in a lot of big games. I've brought us
back and come back Like those are little things that
maybe people don't think matter, but in the long haul,
they do. And that's why I think it does show
up on the field. But to me, he put this
team on his back and critical moments. It was a
struggle bust of a game, a very windy situation, rivalry game.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
And he had two incredible plays.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
And Ben Johnson, again, whether it's special teams or offensive
explosive plays or defense on sidekick, this is a guy
that has his team, has the whole city believe in
and they believe they I think a lot of people
believe that they've got their quarterback.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
And for sure he is quieting a lot of the doubters.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
You know. It's interesting And I remember Andy Reid came
on the show one time and talked about this. I said,
it's like being a great director. When you have a
talented quarterback. You want to let them do their thing
an ad lib, but you have to have an identity.
This is what the movie is. Okay, here's the movie.
I'm gonna let you do your thing. And I kind
of feel like that with Ben Johnson, Like it's like, hey, listen, man,
(24:02):
I'm not going to over coach you.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I just I kind of think in a weird way,
it's a little tougher than coaching sometimes a limited quarterback
obviously a capable guy, but Caleb can do stuff like
you can't get in the way of it, right.
Speaker 8 (24:18):
Yeah, No, I mean I think it's exciting for a
guy like Ben Johnson because he was coaching Jared Goff,
who does everything right but doesn't have the mobility and
escapability to make a bad play call look great. And
I think that's one thing Calebs can do. You mentioned
Andy Reid. Andy Reid was my quarterback coach my first year.
He coached Brett farv There was it was almost harder
(24:38):
because if you turned on Brett Favre's mistake reel, it
would look very similar to his touchdown reel, you know,
and so like.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
How do you coach through that?
Speaker 8 (24:47):
And it's a little bit like being the trainer of
an elite race horse.
Speaker 7 (24:52):
There's not just one way to do it. You kind
of got to get to know the horse and you.
Speaker 8 (24:56):
Got to kind of like, you know, understand the greatness
in that player, and you don't want to steal the
great plays, and I think, like what I saw, you know,
in my time in Green Bay, I saw Mike Holngrind
was sort of the bad cop, like, hey, no more
cut it out.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Or we're going to put your backup in.
Speaker 8 (25:14):
And then Andy Reid was kind of like, Okay, I'm
the good cop.
Speaker 7 (25:17):
Here's how we're going to do it.
Speaker 8 (25:18):
And he came up with parameters for success, and he
made the quarterback in that situation feel like he was
still cutting it loose, playing free, and yet at the
same time accomplishing the goal of the team, which was
consistent play never ever ever missing an open guy, never
being the reason that a play wasn't successful, maybe doing
(25:41):
letting the offense work for you, some of those things.
If you can put all that together, you can have
an MVP quarterback.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, I was saying about the Lions before the season,
I said, when you lose Ben Johnson, Like we all
know head coaches matter, I don't think we understand how
much coordinate matter. Like Detroit doesn't look like the same team.
Go back to your career, and I think, you know,
we always think it's just play calling, and I'm like,
(26:09):
it can't just be play calling. It's got to be played, design,
play calling, timing.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Like I watched.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Detroit, they don't feel the same now, some of its
offensive line regression on the interior, but they got a
lot of talent and it doesn't even it doesn't smell
look the same, or they're a bad third down team.
In your career, what does a great OC provide then
a solid one doesn't identity?
Speaker 8 (26:33):
I mean, he doesn't even need to be in the room.
You could ask a question and everybody in the room
would say, here's the answer.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
We all know, like we.
Speaker 8 (26:40):
Know exactly how our coach would answer this situation. So
when you get new people, just like in any workplace,
you get a new supervisor, boss, like, you're not really
sure what that person's all about.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
And they're learning you too.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
They're learning their leadership style and what they can trust
you with, and so some of those things. You know,
if you look back on Detroit season, it could be, hey,
what do we want to do on fourth down? I mean, really,
all you got to look at is Dan Campbell took
over play calling halfway through the year and said, okay, no, no,
this is what I'm looking for. And then you look
at the success that Ben Johnson is having in Chicago,
and you can't say, like, oh, they can't miss that guy.
(27:13):
The dude is special, like he is legitimate as a
head coach. So you take him out of the organization,
there's going to be some growing pains. I do think
this is going to be a year though, where the
Detroit Lions have to look in the mirror and kind
of reevaluate all that they want to be, whether it's
what they want to be a play caller, how often
they want to go for it on fourth down, because
they're right there of being in the playoffs. But unfortunately,
(27:35):
it looks like they're not going to be in the
playoffs this year because they didn't get it right this year.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
You know we were talking about this is that for years.
I loved I saw him in high school, I loved
him in college, Trevor Lawrence. And then again you start
get to another coach and then there are five and
four they lose to the Texans, and I'm like, it's
just not going to work. He gets lured into bad
picks and yet and by the way, he's totally chill,
and Liam Cohen is wild intense.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And you're like, this is combustible. This is it.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
But yet I'm watching Ben and Caleb work, and I'm
watching intense Liam Cohen and chill southern guy Trevor Lawrence work,
and I wonder if that's why it works, is that
they're really different people. What do you make of this
last two months for Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
Yeah, it's been incredible, And I'm one hundred percent in
agreement in terms of the different personality from play caller
to head coach.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
I mean, I think they worked together that way.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
Trevor's a guy that was taking a lot of heat
and a lot of hate and he, you know, gave
up a big lead. I think it was against Houston
and everyone's like, oh, this is a you know, same
old Jags. Some people left them off their Super Bowl
bubble list. I'm not gonna name names, but you know,
this is a team that's playing really good football. And
to think that this team without guys like Travis Hunter,
(28:52):
went from sunny, humid my you know, down in Jacksonville,
down in Florida all the way up to loud, cold
Denver on the road and made it look like they said, hey,
we just belong here. They didn't just win this game.
They had Denver waving the white flag. I mean they
literally waved the white flag and said, you know, it's
a two score game. We got a short week.
Speaker 7 (29:10):
We're looking forward to our next opponent.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
While the game was still going on, like no one
thought that Liam Cohen and his duval they were going
to come in and do that that fix Trevor Lawrence.
And that's exactly what they've done. When I look at
Trevor Lawrence, I see him directing the pass protection upfront
with such confidence, getting the right hat on the right hat,
which is giving him good protection, and he's kind of
(29:33):
walking into and living into his potential that everyone's kind
of been waiting for. This is a dangerous team. And
I know they're not a big market team. We've talked
about that, but this is a team to look out for.
They are They're one of the best teams in the AFC.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I said.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
One of the stories of the year is that the
Chargers I think lead the NFL in time of possession.
They're unbelievable on third down and they have backups everywhere
the old line and they were on a third string
running back. If they were last in time of possession,
you'd be like, well, I totally understand it. There's and
yet they're at the top. I don't know how to
(30:10):
explain it. I didn't even like the receiving core in camp,
and now I love it. Is that the Harbaugh effect,
the Herbert effect, because they should not be eleven and
four when I look at all their injuries, like that
should not be an eleven and four team.
Speaker 7 (30:25):
Yeah, you nailed it, Harbaugh Herbert, Like that's it.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
The grittiness, the toughness your quarterback has literally this year,
has surgery, comes back and plays in the game. He's
got like one hand, he's going to the ground, can't
even break.
Speaker 7 (30:36):
His fall, and he just plays gritty. He's bloody.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
He doesn't want to even do an postgame interview. He
wants to talk to his teammates like he's just a
football guy. And I think for a long time people
thought of the Chargers kind of like, oh, they're a
finesse team. There they got the cute uniforms. Like no,
this is a physical football team. And Harbaugh has bought
that to the group. And I also think like doing
it with this offensive line, like you mentioned, I was
watching him play in this last game. Literally the offensive
(31:01):
lineman whifted so bad. The d lineman stopped and he
thought that was such a bad block. I think this
is a screen. And he stopped and looked around, like,
oh shoot, no, that was your best effort trying to
block me. And here's Herbert like eyes downfield, just like
throws a great crossing route. It was like, that's how
bad it is right now for them, so to win
on time possession, to have your quarterback healthy enough to
(31:23):
play and play gritty the way he is in the playoffs,
with the group that they have, I mean, get the
coach right, quarterback right, you got a chance.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeap, Matt Hasselbeck on a Monday, It is a you know,
it's funny. I was saying the depth of quarterback. We're
not gonna have Mahomes, Burrow and maybe Lamar Jackson, and
yet the quality of quarterback play. I get Purty and
Darnold and Stafford and Allen and Herbert and Stroud and Nick,
and I mean maybe it's the seven on seven camps,
(31:53):
but the fact that we can have three legends not
being in the playoff and I'm like, if I get this,
Trevor Lawrence, this brought pretty this. Sam Donald, I mean,
you know, you know the Seahawks better than anybody. The
fact that Donald is gonna win. He's won twelve games
with a different team when you watched him Thursday night,
and you know Seattle as well as any analyst out there.
(32:15):
I love the fact that after the game, Mike McDonald's like, yeah,
you guys worry about that stuff. This is what he does.
We're aggressive, we take big swings. We don't care about
the stuff you guys care about.
Speaker 8 (32:26):
I love that, Hey, in game, in game, everybody jumped
off the Sam Donald bandwagon during the game, and then
by the end of the game they were all back on.
And in the Minnesota Vikings and their fans, they've probably
never jumped off it. But no, it's been impressive that
whole division. Donald Stafford and I would even put the
forty nine ers in that group.
Speaker 7 (32:46):
Yeah, that's those three teams right there.
Speaker 8 (32:48):
They've gotten great quarterback play all season long, and they
could stand up to anybody. And that's why all three
of those teams are still in play for the one
seed in the NFC. And in this new age, that's
the only buyle. And you know it's not like two
you just get one. One team gets a bye week now,
so that'll be a great one, uh to watch at the.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
End, Matt, great seeing you on a Monday as owais.
Speaker 7 (33:11):
See again, all right, yeah there.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
You know it's funny about the football is so strange.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Like if I was Seattle and I was that young,
I would not want to buy week bow Knicks.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I would not want to buy week Like.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
There are teams that I look at, like Pittsburgh that
would be a great team to get a bye week.
You got a forty two year old quarterback, You've got
some you know, long of the tooth defenders Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
They're not going to get it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
But if Pittsburgh could get a bye week, that would
be great for Pittsburgh. San Francisco, by the way, Kyle
Shanahan gets an extra week. With all those offensive weapons,
they're a little there was feel like they're close to
being beat up. I would love that Philadelphia has had
o line injuries. Philadelphia could use a bye week. But
a lot of these teams, like I'm Jacksonville, I don't
(33:58):
want to buy Week to play. I'm Jacksonville. This room,
this organization is literally coming flying downhill. I don't want
to buy Week Seattle young team plays with a lot
of juice. I don't want any buy week for them.
Rams are a little hit mess. Give Stafford a little time.
Feel a little better, Davante the hamstring. But it's a
(34:23):
lot of times you'll get buys as a huge advantage.
That's a coin flip to me. I don't think it's
that big of advantage in football unless you're a really
old team.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It
is a Monday, man.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Do we have a lot to talk about one hour
from now? Where Colin was right? Where Colin was wrong?
There's always plenty of both. Urban Meyer stops by Matt Hasselbeck.
We're live in Chicago, Holiday greetings. I mean it was
(00:51):
so Pittsburgh Steeler. I've been saying all year. I've been
saying before the year, this offense in Pittsburgh it's like
Quicksand what's Rogers doing going to this offense? And my
larger point and belief stands they don't have a long
term quarterback. They spend way too much money on defense.
(01:12):
I do think Aaron's duct tape for at least this year,
in another year, but Mike Tomlin, Aaron Rodgers, and the
Steelers deserve credit. In a weekend AFC no Mahomes Borough right,
they may pick up their first playoff.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Win in nine seasons.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I mean, they had almost five yards of offense, an
unbelievable run game, and it's getting better. In the last
three weeks they're averaging over six yards of play. That is,
those are big boy numbers, So it's getting better. Aaron
Rodgers said, you know, get me my guys, mvs. Adam
Feelin and you know it's typical Steeler fashion, a wide receiver,
(01:53):
high maintenance drama.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know, you got to always deal with that.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And despite the fact that at two hundred and third
to fifteen rush advantage, they had to hold on for
dear life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It was Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
But I will say this about Aaron, He's just a
lot of quarterback play is just getting you out of trouble.
He's made the offense slicker and smarter. You know, he
just he takes what's available, not a lot of negative plays.
Right now, Aaron Rodgers leads the entire NFL in fastest release.
He's getting rid of the ball faster than any other quarterback.
(02:27):
He's forty two. He doesn't want to get hit and
he doesn't want that Steeler.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
O line to get into trouble.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Because they really don't have the kind of receiving core
or consistent run game that had yesterday that can get
them out of trouble. So Aaron's like, give me the ball,
let's get it out, stay ahead of the chains. I
feel like Aaron has become like the oil the lubrication
for an offensive machine, where the gears for the last
seven years have been getting stuck, and he just comes in,
(02:56):
get rid of the ball, audible, into the right play
what's available, don't get greedy.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
It's really smart.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And by the way, this is the most impressed I've
been with Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
In a long time.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, what about Green Bay? Everybody wins in Green Bay.
Help Malik Willis looked great last Saturday, Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love,
Brett Faff, everybody looks good in Green Bay. A quarterbacks,
backups come in. Malik Willis their dynamic. This offense Pittsburgh
for seven years, they can't run the ball, the old
line doesn't work. They you know, turnstyle offensive coordinator. Aaron
(03:30):
gets the credit for this. He gets the credit the
longer this goes on this season, last three weeks, brings
his friends in at wide receiver. It's just it works.
Jalen Warren two forty five yard runs dominate the Lions.
Lions have their own problems, but you know here's you got.
Lamar Jackson can't stay healthy. You got Joe Burrow can't
(03:52):
stay healthy. And Aaron's forty two, and he's like, I'm
staying healthy. I'm gonna be available for my team. So
he's just done all the little thing. It's amazing what
coaching can do, or really smart veteran quarterback play. It's
not always what they do, it's what they don't do.
They don't throw picks, they don't take bad sacks. You know,
(04:12):
they audible in and out of trouble and into advantages.
So Mike Tomlin, you know, you say what you want.
And I've had my grievances with Mike Tomlin. Here they
are again looking at a potential division championship.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Thankful of the fight and to win. And we'll keep
pushing because that's what you got to do this time
of year. Win or lose, you got to keep pushing,
and we will. We're coming in to Marrow to watch
the tape. We ain't got time for victory Monday's and
that's what I told the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Team Okay, now, let's go to the team that lost
Detroit one. Coach one has really changed the direction of
two franchises in the same division. Ben Johnson used to
be at Detroit and wow, were they dynamic. The craziest
third and fourth down team in the league. Look at
(05:05):
him now. He left and went to Chicago, and the
Bears are eleven and four and the best fourth quarter
team in the NFL for the record of the Cowboys
weren't interested in Ben Johnson. Congratulations, But the Bears who
have poor ownership, I mean, like literally the poorest ownership
and years of dysfunction upstairs, and you watch them. Yeah,
(05:27):
it's been a work in progress. But I've heard this
before from athletes, the great athletes, and Caleb Williams is
a generational talent.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
He is special.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
They want Caleb Williams wanted to be coached hard. He said,
there's nobody to watch film with me. He wanted to
be coached hard. He wanted somebody to get on him
and enter Ben Johnson. I mean, Patrick Mahomes didn't become
Patrick Mahomes because Andy Reid pandered. They disagree. The volume
goes up, so and Caleb's got an ability to make
(05:58):
the hard look easy. Easy looks a little difficult. But
the entire Bears organization. You know, again, once you get
the coach right Vrabel in New England, Sean Payton and Denver,
Jim Harbaugh with the Chargers Ben Johnson, he doesn't take long. Literally,
it takes like six to eight weeks. You build the staff,
(06:19):
you get the planning, and then slowly but surely you
get into week six, week nine, week twelve, week fifteen,
you look up, this is a really good team. They
do all the things that winning teams do. They win
the turnover battle, they run the football. They've been lucky
a little bit with health, mostly a very healthy team.
They don't have negative plays. So you're seeing the same
(06:41):
thing in New England with Rabel, Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh.
I mean, last year the Bears just a simple thing.
Last year, do you remember this, The Bears were the
worst fourth quarter team in the league. They couldn't even
script plays appropriately. Now third best, So they start smartly,
they finish strongly, and again they've just gotten out of
(07:06):
the stuff that loses games. No turnovers, no negative plays.
The operation, the basic fundamentals looks organized and then of
course you have Caleb Williams, who really is a unique talent.
Here's the walkoff touchdown?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Are the fake Williams looking downfield? Orson downfield? Good God, Djama.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And great coaches are like great movie directors. You got
to let the star kind of do his thing, however,
with a clear identity of what the movie is and
what the game plan is. And people are going to say, well,
I mean the Bears got a little bit lucky. They
recovered the on side kick no time out. They also
(08:08):
had two game winning drives, and they also in overtime
stop the Packers.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So it's not just well.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Teams block punts all the time, teams recover on sidekicks.
What do you do with the opportunities presented and well coached?
Last night New England could have lost that puppy. New
England maybe gets a big interception or a fumble recovery, Well,
what do they do with it? Well coached teams take
(08:38):
advantage of those little breaks that every team in the
league gets. Yep, the onside kick. Gotta be honest, that
kind of surprised me. But it's what they did with it.
And here's Caleb.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
After I got the best coach in the world. Let's
put it. Let's put it that way. And we have
the best coaching staff in the world. And so you
put the talent with the coaches and the people that care.
You can strive for anything, you can reach anything, you
can go after any goal. And when you go out
(09:10):
there in the football field, your belief is at all
time high between players, between coaches, and you know you
have outcomes like this.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, it is uh.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Ryan was at the game, and the environment for anybody,
we all had different environments. One of our guys was
in a Chicago bar, one was at the game. I'm
at home. It's like you could hear neighbors streaming. Chicago
has been waiting so long, not to just win games,
but to have a team like this that's offensively electric,
(09:42):
that's offensively dynamic. That's just not what Chicago does. Like
in La every great Lakers team, they're always fun and
offensive minded and they've got show time. Chicago's always won
one way, win one way. They went with defense, they
went with toughness. To have it a electric offense is
really unique and the city is feeling it this morning.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I know there's some quarterbacks banged up that won't make
the playoffs. But we have a lot of young quarterbacks
your Bo Nicks, you'r Drake May, You're Caleb that are
gonna be in CJ. Stroud. Then we have older quarterbacks
that Herbert that's had to overcome an offensive line, Jordan
Love uh when if they get in, he's had to
overcome an injury.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
And you know they lose.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Christian Watson and some of their star defensive players.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So it's.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I kind of feel like it's gonna be an interesting mix.
No Mahomes, no Borough, Proino, Lamar, but it'll be an
interesting mix of young and dynamic and old and Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
We're gonna have a wild January.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
I'm one hundred percent with you. It feels like a
new era, Colin. All these young quarterbacks ushered in out
with the old. Sorry guys, Lamar, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I don't know when.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
They're gonna get back to the playoffs. I mean, you
talked about it last week. The Chiefs had a major rebuild.
Colin Ravens. You watched it. Roster last Nay, they don't
have anybody at all. The roster's terrible. Lamar's lost a step.
It feels like the new era of quarterbacks is here.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app Pauly Fools Go Here
with Tony Foosco. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
As everybody knows, we're the hosts of the award winning
Polly and Tony Foodsco Show. Yeah, but instead of us
telling you how great we are, here's how Dan Patrick
described us when he came on our show.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Quick, knowledgeable and funny, opinionated.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
What are you doing?
Speaker 7 (11:34):
Were interrupting our promo?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, you wasn't talking about you.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
You took those clips totally of context.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Oh yeah, well after this promo, I'm gonna take you
out and beat you.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Let me put this into context.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Shut up.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Yeah, anyway, just listen to the Paully and Tony Fusco
Show on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yee, here we go.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It's our two loaded good one tonight too.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
The forty nine.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Ers still haven't lost a blazing five pick yet three
to zero to one. J McK and I have both
had good weekends. Matt Hasselbeck's around the corner. So yeah,
all weekend long, people are complaining about the college football playoffs.
I can't believe this team got in and that team
(12:24):
got in. Go to March Madness. You keep telling me
that's the greatest sporting event in the world. Like twenty
five teams that get into that thing unwatchable? Bottom line,
Do you get the top sixteen college basketball teams in?
Do you get the top sixteen in the rest of
It's filler? That's how I feel about this thing. Do
you get the top eight teams in? Hey got four
(12:44):
teams that you know. We know. Texas probably better than
James Madison's I think we could agree Notre Dames better
than two lane, but they had their opportunity.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Notre Dame played Texas and Miami couldn't win either. I mean,
the regular season's got.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
To mean something, so I think the college football playoff
I can't wait to watch the next seven games. Here
we go, Colin right, Colin wrong?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Where Colin was right?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
New England was my surprise playoff pick. Fourth year in
a row. My surprise playoff team has made it twelve
and three tripled their win total. Could still land the
number one seed. You know, it's amazing what they've done
offensively from thirty first to six.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The Kyle Williams great play.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
We talked about him as he was a tremendously gifted
college player, Stefan Diggs, Hunter, Henry. It's a big playoffense
and it last year there was none of that juice.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So we got that one right.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Where Colin was wrong. Mike Tomlin once again secure as
a winning season. They could actually win eleven games in Pittsburgh. Now,
the game got a little squirrely in the end, but
make no doubt about it. Pittsburgh was absolutely the better team,
holding Detroit to fifteen rushing yards. And I'll listen, are
(14:00):
they good enough to win a playoff game? I don't know,
but they ran the ball. They haven't done that consistently
in years. Aaron has been tremendous. He gets him out
of trouble. No negative plays.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
In the end. I was wrong where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Slinging Sammy d leads his division, Seattle leads the NFL
in point differential. What's interesting with sam He's completing sixty
seven percent of his throats.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That's a career high.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
But he's also near the top in yards per attempt,
so it's no dinking dunk.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
He's throwing the ball down the field.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Twenty four total touchdowns the last two years. He has
more passing touchdowns than Josh Allen, so first quarterback ever,
back to back seasons, two different teams to win twelve games.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Right on, Sammy, where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I love Trevor Lawrence for years, but all the turnovers
I surrendered. They were five and four after losing the
the Texans, I'm like, I'm done, and then they got
in a heater. Liam Cohen deserves a ton of credit.
I didn't even have him in my hurt hierarchy until
last week. But they've just got a lot of good players,
you know what I mean. It's like Parker Washington, where'd
(15:16):
he come from? They could end up thirteen and four.
Trevor Lawrence has kind of gotten out of being lured
into bad interceptions. They deserve all the credit in the world.
Just the minute I gave up on Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
He pivoted where Colin was right New.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
York Jet Now, excuse me, New York Giant fans, Colin,
You're crazy thinking we should draft Fernando Mendoza. Yeah, Jackson
Dart had one completion in the first half. His coaching
staff was terrified to let him throw the ball. I
got nothing against Jackson Dark, but if you notice the
more we see of him last couple of starts, it's.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Got a sixty eight passer rating. Well, they don't have this,
they don't have that. Boy.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I mean, I think Jackson Dart been a pleasant surprise
like him, but the fact that you wouldn't consider Mendoza
with the number one pick, wouldn't consider it. You're the
New York Giants, You've been unwatchable for a decade. You
got to consider everything.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
The Carolina Panthers start of the season one in three,
I'm like, come on, this is a bush league operation.
But Dan Morgan, former player, GM nice draft, Dave Kanalis
steadied the ship, you know. I mean Bryce Young fifth
year extension, he moves, he's got a star receiver, one
(16:35):
hundred and two passer rating, couple of tunnies, no picks.
So again, do we wish he was bigger and had
a bigger arm. Probably, But when I watched Carolina, I'm like,
I just watched Bryce Young outplay Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That's impressive.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Where Colin was right, Kaylin de Boor, don't listen to
the trolls. He is a top five head coach to
go into Norman, fall behind seventeen to nothing and then
take the game over.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
He's not gonna be Saban.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
First of all, the SEC now has Texas schools, it's deeper,
the Big ten's better, and the money runs everything. Now
you can't stack rosters like Nick Saban could do. Even
Kirby smart Georgia had last two years. Doesn't look like Georgia.
They're just a really good team. So don't listen to anybody,
Kaylin de Boor off of Nick Saban. That's as good
(17:23):
as you can do as an athletic director. That's that's
as good as you can do.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Miami Hurricanes kept saying, folks, watch this defense all year long.
I said, I don't buy in Texas A and m
I said all week Miami's going to go in there.
I don't want to hear that Mario christa ball. You
don't trust him. Miami is going to control this football game.
Their defense is fast and physical and Mario crystabaal.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And they're nil money they got dudes.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I mean you just you watch. It's that defense they got, dudes. Now,
can they beat Ohio State? I'm not sure if anybody can.
But that defense will keep them in every game they play.
So for all the Miami Hurricane doubters, sorry, they're legit.
That defense as good as anything, maybe even Ohio State's defense.
(18:20):
Colin right wrong on a Monday, and here's Matt Hasselback
eighteen years in the.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
NFL joining US Live. So you know, it's.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
A lot of teams feel like, Okay, they're a regular
season story. I'm not sure if it translates when you
watch New England. I don't think i'd be shocked if
they were one and done. But do you think what
they do translates to January in the postseason?
Speaker 7 (18:46):
Yeah, one hundred percent. They just got to stay healthy.
Speaker 8 (18:49):
Listen, this is a team that no one even expected
to be in the playoffs this year. I think maybe
you're the only guy, actually you called it, but not
even Mike Vrabel the way they talked about it. They
traded away all their captains like they were just we're
building something for success down the road. So the success
of Drake may in this offense has been incredible. They
use free agency mostly to fix the defense, and the
(19:09):
defense really hasn't been what it's been because Milton Williams
has been out, Spallane's been out. But no, I think
what the big question mark was can we protect Drake
may can Drake may be Drake Drake may May And
he's been that, you know, even without his left tackle out,
without his left tackle in there, and on the third
string tackle yesterday. So no, this this team is I
(19:30):
think built for it. I think they're one of the
best teams in the AFC, and I do believe the
coaching matters, and Mike Rabel and Josh McDaniels and those
guys are proven.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
It one of my favorite And then I said, I'm
really impressed with Aaron And you could say, well, what
about green Bay? Well, far warn in green Bay, Jordan
love One, Malik Willis looked great. Aaron like Green Bay
does quarterback right, like you know, it's no chaos. They
always have good old lines. Obviously, he's a great Hall
of Fame talent, but Pittsburgh was offensive quicksand one of
(20:00):
my favorite stats is Aaron Is letting go of the
ball faster than any quarterback in the league, like you know,
like and I don't blame him, but with this offense,
it kind of works. It's a size offense. It's not twitchy,
it's not quick, it's just gigantic.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Men.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I mean I watch Aaron, I'm like, this is exactly
what this offense should have. They're not good enough to
overcome negative plays. They don't run it consistently. I'm kind
of blown away by what Aaron's done because this offense
for seven years, Matt, they couldn't get anything right. I mean,
what do you make of what he's done.
Speaker 8 (20:33):
Well, they haven't been very consistent this year either, you know,
they've been like, oh, we're going to be an empty
team and then we're going to try to run.
Speaker 7 (20:39):
And we can.
Speaker 8 (20:40):
But yesterday I thought was the start of what they
hoped to be. And you hear Mike Tomlin talk about
December football. What you got to do to win at
this time of year. You got to be able to
run the ball, and you got to be able to
stop the run. They ran for almost two hundred yards
yesterday against Detroit, and then they shut Detroit's run game down,
completely shut it down. So I think this is exact
factly what I've been sort of begging for from Aaron
(21:02):
Rodgers and the Steelers Arthur Smith. Aaron Rodgers sees it all.
He's a historian of the game. There's nothing a defense
can do. Let him be the maestro, be the conductor
of the orchestra, the point guard.
Speaker 7 (21:15):
He doesn't need to be Michael Jordan.
Speaker 8 (21:16):
He can just get us into the perfect play, give
us explosive runs, throw a perfect back shoulder throw to
a guy like DK. But the question is now, and
maybe this actually helps him in a way. If DK
is suspended, are they going to lean in more to
that run game and to Aaron Rodgers getting us into
audibles in the perfect run looks with thirteen personnel, three
(21:38):
tight ends, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
That's what I.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
Think they need to do anyway, And then they'll get
DK back, and then you leave him one on one.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
We got Aaron Rodgers, the Hall of Fame thrower.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
You know, there used to be it's called there's a
tournament baseball A bad ball hitter. I think it was
Vlad Guerrero was known. Vlad Garrero would hit pitches you
shouldn't even swing at off.
Speaker 7 (21:59):
Your gloves too, which is hard to do, Colin.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I watched Caleb. The layups I'm not sure about, but
some of the plays he makes, I'm like, what, it's
just different. It's hard for me to find a prototype.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You tell me what you see.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
Listen this. The last two weeks have been great.
Speaker 8 (22:20):
You know, he out duels or Sanders against Cleveland, against
Malik Willis. He clearly was the guy at the moment
of truth, when the game is on the line, when
your best is required, he delivered. Absolutely. He makes the
hard things look easy. He makes the easy things look hard,
which is great. If you're a coach, you say, hey,
I can coach you into the easy stuff. You just
(22:40):
got to trust me, and you got to do all
the little things that you probably don't think matter. But
I'm telling you, because I'm a coach and I'm older
and wiser, they matter. And that's what your job is
as a coach. Because he has this stuff that you
can't coach. And you know, some of the other stuff
I think will come with experience, the stuff at the podium.
When there's an interception, don't say we through an interception.
(23:01):
And when there's a great play, don't say, oh, I've
played in a lot of big games. I've brought us
back and come back Like those are little things that
maybe people don't think matter, but in the long haul,
they do. And that's why I think it does show
up on the field. But to me, he put this
team on his back and critical moments. It was a
struggle bust of a game, a very windy situation, rivalry game.
Speaker 7 (23:21):
And he had two incredible plays.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
And Ben Johnson, again, whether it's special teams or offensive
explosive plays or defense on sidekick, this is a guy
that has his team, has the whole city believe in
and they believe they I think a lot of people
believe that they've got their quarterback.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
And for sure he is quieting a lot of the doubters.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
You know. It's interesting And I remember Andy Reid came
on the show one time and talked about this. I said,
it's like being a great director. When you have a
talented quarterback. You want to let them do their thing
an ad lib, but you have to have an identity.
This is what the movie is. Okay, here's the movie.
I'm gonna let you do your thing. And I kind
of feel like that with Ben Johnson, Like it's like, hey, listen, man,
(24:02):
I'm not going to over coach you.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I just I kind of think in a weird way,
it's a little tougher than coaching sometimes a limited quarterback
obviously a capable guy, but Caleb can do stuff like
you can't get in the way of it, right.
Speaker 8 (24:18):
Yeah, No, I mean I think it's exciting for a
guy like Ben Johnson because he was coaching Jared Goff,
who does everything right but doesn't have the mobility and
escapability to make a bad play call look great. And
I think that's one thing Calebs can do. You mentioned
Andy Reid. Andy Reid was my quarterback coach my first year.
He coached Brett farv There was it was almost harder
(24:38):
because if you turned on Brett Favre's mistake reel, it
would look very similar to his touchdown reel, you know,
and so like.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
How do you coach through that?
Speaker 8 (24:47):
And it's a little bit like being the trainer of
an elite race horse.
Speaker 7 (24:52):
There's not just one way to do it. You kind
of got to get to know the horse and you.
Speaker 8 (24:56):
Got to kind of like, you know, understand the greatness
in that player, and you don't want to steal the
great plays, and I think, like what I saw, you know,
in my time in Green Bay, I saw Mike Holngrind
was sort of the bad cop, like, hey, no more
cut it out.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Or we're going to put your backup in.
Speaker 8 (25:14):
And then Andy Reid was kind of like, Okay, I'm
the good cop.
Speaker 7 (25:17):
Here's how we're going to do it.
Speaker 8 (25:18):
And he came up with parameters for success, and he
made the quarterback in that situation feel like he was
still cutting it loose, playing free, and yet at the
same time accomplishing the goal of the team, which was
consistent play never ever ever missing an open guy, never
being the reason that a play wasn't successful, maybe doing
(25:41):
letting the offense work for you, some of those things.
If you can put all that together, you can have
an MVP quarterback.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, I was saying about the Lions before the season,
I said, when you lose Ben Johnson, Like we all
know head coaches matter, I don't think we understand how
much coordinate matter. Like Detroit doesn't look like the same team.
Go back to your career, and I think, you know,
we always think it's just play calling, and I'm like,
(26:09):
it can't just be play calling. It's got to be played, design,
play calling, timing.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Like I watched.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Detroit, they don't feel the same now, some of its
offensive line regression on the interior, but they got a
lot of talent and it doesn't even it doesn't smell
look the same, or they're a bad third down team.
In your career, what does a great OC provide then
a solid one doesn't identity?
Speaker 8 (26:33):
I mean, he doesn't even need to be in the room.
You could ask a question and everybody in the room
would say, here's the answer.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
We all know, like we.
Speaker 8 (26:40):
Know exactly how our coach would answer this situation. So
when you get new people, just like in any workplace,
you get a new supervisor, boss, like, you're not really
sure what that person's all about.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
And they're learning you too.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
They're learning their leadership style and what they can trust
you with, and so some of those things. You know,
if you look back on Detroit season, it could be, hey,
what do we want to do on fourth down? I mean, really,
all you got to look at is Dan Campbell took
over play calling halfway through the year and said, okay, no, no,
this is what I'm looking for. And then you look
at the success that Ben Johnson is having in Chicago,
and you can't say, like, oh, they can't miss that guy.
(27:13):
The dude is special, like he is legitimate as a
head coach. So you take him out of the organization,
there's going to be some growing pains. I do think
this is going to be a year though, where the
Detroit Lions have to look in the mirror and kind
of reevaluate all that they want to be, whether it's
what they want to be a play caller, how often
they want to go for it on fourth down, because
they're right there of being in the playoffs. But unfortunately,
(27:35):
it looks like they're not going to be in the
playoffs this year because they didn't get it right this year.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
You know we were talking about this is that for years.
I loved I saw him in high school, I loved
him in college, Trevor Lawrence. And then again you start
get to another coach and then there are five and
four they lose to the Texans, and I'm like, it's
just not going to work. He gets lured into bad
picks and yet and by the way, he's totally chill,
and Liam Cohen is wild intense.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And you're like, this is combustible. This is it.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
But yet I'm watching Ben and Caleb work, and I'm
watching intense Liam Cohen and chill southern guy Trevor Lawrence work,
and I wonder if that's why it works, is that
they're really different people. What do you make of this
last two months for Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
Yeah, it's been incredible, And I'm one hundred percent in
agreement in terms of the different personality from play caller
to head coach.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
I mean, I think they worked together that way.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
Trevor's a guy that was taking a lot of heat
and a lot of hate and he, you know, gave
up a big lead. I think it was against Houston
and everyone's like, oh, this is a you know, same
old Jags. Some people left them off their Super Bowl
bubble list. I'm not gonna name names, but you know,
this is a team that's playing really good football. And
to think that this team without guys like Travis Hunter,
(28:52):
went from sunny, humid my you know, down in Jacksonville,
down in Florida all the way up to loud, cold
Denver on the road and made it look like they said, hey,
we just belong here. They didn't just win this game.
They had Denver waving the white flag. I mean they
literally waved the white flag and said, you know, it's
a two score game. We got a short week.
Speaker 7 (29:10):
We're looking forward to our next opponent.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
While the game was still going on, like no one
thought that Liam Cohen and his duval they were going
to come in and do that that fix Trevor Lawrence.
And that's exactly what they've done. When I look at
Trevor Lawrence, I see him directing the pass protection upfront
with such confidence, getting the right hat on the right hat,
which is giving him good protection, and he's kind of
(29:33):
walking into and living into his potential that everyone's kind
of been waiting for. This is a dangerous team. And
I know they're not a big market team. We've talked
about that, but this is a team to look out for.
They are They're one of the best teams in the AFC.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I said.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
One of the stories of the year is that the
Chargers I think lead the NFL in time of possession.
They're unbelievable on third down and they have backups everywhere
the old line and they were on a third string
running back. If they were last in time of possession,
you'd be like, well, I totally understand it. There's and
yet they're at the top. I don't know how to
(30:10):
explain it. I didn't even like the receiving core in camp,
and now I love it. Is that the Harbaugh effect,
the Herbert effect, because they should not be eleven and
four when I look at all their injuries, like that
should not be an eleven and four team.
Speaker 7 (30:25):
Yeah, you nailed it, Harbaugh Herbert, Like that's it.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
The grittiness, the toughness your quarterback has literally this year,
has surgery, comes back and plays in the game. He's
got like one hand, he's going to the ground, can't
even break.
Speaker 7 (30:36):
His fall, and he just plays gritty. He's bloody.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
He doesn't want to even do an postgame interview. He
wants to talk to his teammates like he's just a
football guy. And I think for a long time people
thought of the Chargers kind of like, oh, they're a
finesse team. There they got the cute uniforms. Like no,
this is a physical football team. And Harbaugh has bought
that to the group. And I also think like doing
it with this offensive line, like you mentioned, I was
watching him play in this last game. Literally the offensive
(31:01):
lineman whifted so bad. The d lineman stopped and he
thought that was such a bad block. I think this
is a screen. And he stopped and looked around, like,
oh shoot, no, that was your best effort trying to
block me. And here's Herbert like eyes downfield, just like
throws a great crossing route. It was like, that's how
bad it is right now for them, so to win
on time possession, to have your quarterback healthy enough to
(31:23):
play and play gritty the way he is in the playoffs,
with the group that they have, I mean, get the
coach right, quarterback right, you got a chance.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeap, Matt Hasselbeck on a Monday, It is a you know,
it's funny. I was saying the depth of quarterback. We're
not gonna have Mahomes, Burrow and maybe Lamar Jackson, and
yet the quality of quarterback play. I get Purty and
Darnold and Stafford and Allen and Herbert and Stroud and Nick,
and I mean maybe it's the seven on seven camps,
(31:53):
but the fact that we can have three legends not
being in the playoff and I'm like, if I get this,
Trevor Lawrence, this brought pretty this. Sam Donald, I mean,
you know, you know the Seahawks better than anybody. The
fact that Donald is gonna win. He's won twelve games
with a different team when you watched him Thursday night,
and you know Seattle as well as any analyst out there.
(32:15):
I love the fact that after the game, Mike McDonald's like, yeah,
you guys worry about that stuff. This is what he does.
We're aggressive, we take big swings. We don't care about
the stuff you guys care about.
Speaker 8 (32:26):
I love that, Hey, in game, in game, everybody jumped
off the Sam Donald bandwagon during the game, and then
by the end of the game they were all back on.
And in the Minnesota Vikings and their fans, they've probably
never jumped off it. But no, it's been impressive that
whole division. Donald Stafford and I would even put the
forty nine ers in that group.
Speaker 7 (32:46):
Yeah, that's those three teams right there.
Speaker 8 (32:48):
They've gotten great quarterback play all season long, and they
could stand up to anybody. And that's why all three
of those teams are still in play for the one
seed in the NFC. And in this new age, that's
the only buyle. And you know it's not like two
you just get one. One team gets a bye week now,
so that'll be a great one, uh to watch at the.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
End, Matt, great seeing you on a Monday as owais.
Speaker 7 (33:11):
See again, all right, yeah there.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
You know it's funny about the football is so strange.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Like if I was Seattle and I was that young,
I would not want to buy week bow Knicks.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I would not want to buy week Like.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
There are teams that I look at, like Pittsburgh that
would be a great team to get a bye week.
You got a forty two year old quarterback, You've got
some you know, long of the tooth defenders Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
They're not going to get it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
But if Pittsburgh could get a bye week, that would
be great for Pittsburgh. San Francisco, by the way, Kyle
Shanahan gets an extra week. With all those offensive weapons,
they're a little there was feel like they're close to
being beat up. I would love that Philadelphia has had
o line injuries. Philadelphia could use a bye week. But
a lot of these teams, like I'm Jacksonville, I don't
(33:58):
want to buy Week to play. I'm Jacksonville. This room,
this organization is literally coming flying downhill. I don't want
to buy Week Seattle young team plays with a lot
of juice. I don't want any buy week for them.
Rams are a little hit mess. Give Stafford a little time.
Feel a little better, Davante the hamstring. But it's a
(34:23):
lot of times you'll get buys as a huge advantage.
That's a coin flip to me. I don't think it's
that big of advantage in football unless you're a really
old team.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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