Best of the Week on The Herd

Where Colin was right and wrong

Thoughts on UNC and Bill Belichick selling out season tickets

The NFL has decided to not ban The Tush Push

NBA Champion Channing Frye broke down the big Pacers win and told Colin wakes makes Tyrese Haliburton so special

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go our number two on a Monday. You know,
j Mac, I have discovered something in Chicago. I eat
a lot more bread and I'm and it's all good.
I told my wife, can we mix in? I don't know,
canalo some seamfood? I'm eating a lot of bread and

(00:48):
it's all amazing. Oh boy, you gained some weight. Huh yeah,
right before your big trip.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Huhahs, so you can look like a typical American over there.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, I am all right. We do it every Monday
at this time. Colin is right, Colin is wrong, and
there is as always plenty of both where Colin was right. Well,
I'm somewhat vindicated. I broke the story a year ago
that Caleb Williams and most notably his dad, were a
little uneasy and unsure about his son playing in Chicago

(01:20):
excellent reporter Seth Wickersham also last week reporting the same thing. Listen,
Caleb and his dad, looking at the history of the
quarterback position, had said, this is where quarterbacks go to die.
I was told the same thing. Caleb didn't want to
push the nuclear button. He did not want to start
his NFL career in controversy, so he complied. He went

(01:43):
to the Bears. But it should be duly noted that
all of his concerns about the Bears and chaos did
come true.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Where Colin was wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I would not have paid Brock pretty in the fifty millions,
but the Niners did. I said, listen, Tua and Dak,
you'll become top heavy, and the Dolphins and the Cowboys did. Listen.
Kyle Shanahan is running the operation. He's a smart kid,
moves pretty well, terribly coachable, and let's be honest, when

(02:16):
you give him time with the weapons like Kittle and Jennings,
he's an accurate distributor of the football. I thought they'd
pushed back. I thought they'd tried to get in the forties,
but he got closer to fifty five million than forty
five million.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Caitlin Clark. It took a year, but the league has
finally figured it out. The WNBA is going to televise
at this point today all but two of her games,
and those may eventually get televised. She is Taylor Swift
meets Tiger Woods. We said this last year, the league
just didn't quite know what it had. Right now, the

(02:58):
Fever are out drawn not only a good team in
the Indiana Pacers, but a highly entertaining Eastern Conference Finals
team in the Indiana Pacers. She is a once in
a generation not only talent talent, but revenue stream and
the WNBAS finally figured it out.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I thought the Denver Nuggets would push Oklahoma City to
six or seven games. I did like the Thunder to
win the series based on depth and levers their coach
could pull. But the series, if you listen to odds makers,
they thought it was going to be a landslide. And
I'm sorry, even the odds makers don't quite understand how
good Jokich is. I thought yesterday, by about mid to

(03:42):
late second quarter, they ran out of gas, murried, didn't
do anything. Aaron Gordon was playing at about seventy percent.
But I thought it would be a close series, and
it was.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Where Colin was wrong.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
The New York Knicks Listen after they won that first
game coming back from twenty in Boston. I said, they're
not gonna win. They're not gonna win another game in
this series, and I really believed it. But the physicality
in the NBA playoffs benefited a lot of teams. I mean,
it made the Pistons uh more viable against the Knicks.
It helped the Knicks, it helped the Pacers, it helps Minnesota,

(04:18):
and Boston was a pretty team that was heavily reliant
on threes, and three point shooting has gone down significantly
in these playoffs. I'm here for it. I like the
layered style of play the NBA is encouraging, but I
was wrong on that.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Series where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I never got the hate for Tyrese Halliburton. I Q
e Q distributes controls, pacing, he can score, elevate others.
He was voted most overrated player on an NBA anonymous poll.
Some of it's just petty, but I think when you
watch him play, you're seeing the future of the NBA.

(04:58):
The new CBA is not going to allow for stacked rosters.
It's going to be point guard driven, elevating other B
and B plus players, and I think Halliburton's as good
as anybody at.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
The league at that where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
The New England Patriots, I said back in March, they
are the number one bet on my board to double
their wins. And the over unders and or future bets
came out last week and lo and behold, the Patriots
were favored in eleven of their seventeen games. So listen,
major upgraded head coach d Line. They had eleven draft picks,

(05:34):
so I can only assume their depth will be better.
I think they got a left tackle in the draft
and Will Campbell, so I don't think there's any question
the AFC is harder top to bottom than the NFC,
but I think a coaching upgrade. Sean Payton proved this
in Denver. Can be somewhere between three four and six
points per game, and if you had just given this

(05:54):
team six to seven points more last year, they would
have won ten games.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Colin was right.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
Well.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Now even X steeters popular ex steeters like Ryan Clark
are sounding off about Mike Tomlin. I think Mike Tomlin's
going to get votes for the Hall of Fame. I
think he's a great motivator, but Ryan Clark said last
week his message has grown stale. Listen, it's an offensive league.
This team can't figure out their offensive line for seven years.

(06:23):
They're showing no urgency at quarterback. Who knows if Aaron
Rodgers is going to be around. Even pat Riley used
to say it. You get about ten years to coach
and then people players tune you out. I think Tomlin's
going to get Hall of Fame votes, but listen, Andy Reid,
Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, all time coaches have moved on
or been moved out, and I just feel like it's

(06:44):
time in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in newon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
So I saw this story this morning. You know, Bill
Belichick goes to Carolina. When Dion Sanders went to Colorado,
the first thing that was inarguable is he sold the
stadium ount and Colorado was a sputtering program. There wasn't
any interest. Boulder's sort of you know, it's sort of
a wild, fun place to go to. Have a good time.

(07:20):
Very infrequently have they had a lot of interest or
a lot of success in football. And even with Dion,
they weren't super successful, but they got on TV a lot.
They were interesting. I thought he did a pretty good
job to get him on television. They don't win a
ton of games, even though they are in the Big Twelve,
which is one of the weaker conferences. Not acc week,
but kind of week. But Dion has made them relevant

(07:42):
and in college football hit the recruiting at Colorado now
is relevant and that's what matters now. I do think
Carolina historically is a better football program than Colorado, and
there's more money in it, especially for football. But this
is interesting. Carolina has sold out their season tickets before
they had of play the game under Bill Belichick, So

(08:02):
it's the Dion effect. And I think what is fascinating
about Belichick. So I think if you put Belichick in
the SEC or the Big Ten, he'd get rolled. Because
I've always had this theory is that the key to
NFL coaching is just raw intelligence. Mostly smarter coaches win

(08:26):
because you pick the players and you can practice much longer.
College football is different. You need to be able to recruit,
you got to have great energy. Intelligence to some degree
can be muted. Now we know Nick Saban is really smart,
but Nick was also relentless on a recruiting trail, tons

(08:46):
of energy, always a smile, great brand, and you know,
again relentless when it came to getting players. He was
pre nil the best recruiter I think I've ever seen,
and so I always thought John Gruden would be a
great college coach. Smart enough, but great recruiter, great energy.

(09:07):
Pete Carroll is not known as a schematic whiz, great
college coach. Jim Harbaugh simple themes, repetitive in his themes,
great energy and recruiter. Yet Bill Walsh at Stanford his
last two years he was seven, fourteen and one combined,
arguably the smartest coach in league history. Bill Walsh was

(09:29):
smart players, not that successful at Stanford. Jim Harbaugh much
more successful. Harbaugh could recruit, Harball had greater energy. Harbaugh
had very simple themes. Belichick smart. I think the one
thing that saves Belichick is the ACC is terrible. I
looked at Joel Klatz preseason Top fifteen. There is one

(09:52):
ACC team in it, and that is Clemson. Now Clemson
has a I think the second or third best quarterback
in college football, and they returned most of their really
good players they didn't transfer. But they're not really an
NIL story. I don't think they're a national championship contender,
but I think they have a good coach, they have
a first round quarterback and a lot of good players
returned and didn't transfer. But there's no other ACC teams there.

(10:14):
You got BYU and Arizona State and South Carolina and
Illinois all above the next ACC team. So my take
is Belichick's little grumpy Belichick is energy is met. Belichick's
a socio recruiter and his messaging, let's be honest, kind
of complex. Now I think he Charlie Weiss was another
guy who was a really smart guy. He kind of

(10:36):
bragged about his schematic advantage. He had a big brand,
notre name energy. Recruiting very average, and so I do
think what saves Bill is the ACC. If you look
at their schedule outside of the Clemson game, they can
match up with anybody. I mean, there's just w's everywhere
in this thing. But like Deon Sanders, and this is

(10:57):
why I've supported Bill Belichick and Jordan Hunt, Caroline's a
basketball school. Colorado is a nothing school. Social currency, attention
is your stock market. And I think North Carolina and Belichick,
I've got them as my third story today, I don't

(11:17):
have the Carolina tar Heels basketball program is my third story.
So for some of these programs like Colorado and Carolina
selling out the stadium, getting on television, raising nil money,
Trump's getting to the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
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Speaker 5 (11:38):
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Speaker 4 (12:36):
Here we go.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
It is a Wednesday, and there is actually a lot
to talk about. It's the herd wherever you may be
and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us
part of your day, So Jmac. We learned again today
that the NFL owners run everything. Doesn't matter what committees say,

(13:00):
it doesn't matter what the commissioner says, it doesn't matter
what coaches say.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
It is an.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Owner run lead. And we got another example of that
today with a toush push.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I think you and I are pretty much on the
same page with it, right, We're fine with this.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't love it. But here's the very latest. The
NFL's Competition Committee said you should get rid of it.
The NFL's Health and Safety Commission Committee said you should
get rid of it, and the NFL owner said, yeah,
we're going to keep it. It was close. They needed

(13:37):
twenty four votes to get rid of it. It was
twenty two. I think Jason Kelsey, former Eagle Center podcaster,
apparently spoke to owners and that, in my opinion, was
the difference. They're not going to ban it for now. Hey, listen,
clever coaches are like good accountants. They find loopholes schemes

(14:00):
to benefit their clients, and sometimes the league rules, Nope,
we gave it to you for three years, we're not
going to give it to you for four. I've always
said the NFL is a TV show, and the two
things they really care about are entertainment and safety, in
no particular order. They care about entertainment and safety, and
to me, the Tush push kind of violates both. It

(14:23):
looks dangerous and it's ugly. Optics on TV aren't good.
It's an ugly play, and it almost failed. Twenty two
votes needed, twenty four. I think Jason Kelsey, speaking on
behalf of it, a very respective player who was not,
you know, some five star recruit. He was a grinder.

(14:45):
He's classic NFL family. The Kelseys have been great for
the league. He spoke, and I think he push pushed
it into not being banned. I think his ability to
create that play and to keep it from being banned.
The the Eagles have already posted it on social media,
the push stays on. I'm a little surprised. I mean,

(15:07):
we see this all the time. Remember years ago, Cam
Chancellor would jump over the line and block kicks for
the Seahawks, and the NFL felt it's a little dangerous.
Looking now, there wasn't a ton of data that showed,
you know, there's a lot of guys getting hurt. But
the NFL didn't like it, and they said, I don't
think so. The horse collar tackle they got rid of it.

(15:28):
The kickoffs they look all funky now they think it's
too dangerous. But I think what helps the tush push.
There is no current data that a bunch of guys
are getting hurt with it, although I'm not sure a
bunch of guys were getting hurt when Cam Chancellor was
jumping over a line to block a kick either, But
there's no data that shows that it's hurting people. And

(15:51):
the second thing is Jason Kelsey's powerful, he is respected.
He made a plea to keep it, and I think
it probably flipped one or two owners. So the Competition committee,
they and the Health and Safety Committee recommended the league

(16:12):
ban it. We don't like it, and usually those recommendations
get something banned. But in this instance, the owners and
they control it. They control Goodell's salary, Roger Goodell's trying
to get a raise here. They control that, They control
the length of the schedule. It's the only sport in
America where the owners control the TV networks, not vice versa.

(16:33):
They tell them what they will pay, and then they
can They can blow those TV contracts up in the
middle of them and renegotiate it if they want. The
NFL owners are all powerful. You got a lot of
NBA Baseball owners, NBA owners, MLS owners selling stuff. You
own an NFL team, Just keep it, just keep it,

(16:54):
and so the owners win again. Here's Dion Dawkins, great
left tackle for Buffalo. His opinions are like a lot
of players' opinions on it. You don't love it, but
it's Philadelphia's what do we do with it? Here's Dean Dawkins.

Speaker 6 (17:11):
It's a very hard play for a player. It's a
very hard play for a player. You know you're down there,
your head is down.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
You just have to kind of.

Speaker 6 (17:19):
Just drive your legs and hit three people at one time.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Like it's very hard thing to do.

Speaker 6 (17:26):
But it's so weird because we play a game of inches, right, Like,
what's the best player to get an inch?

Speaker 4 (17:35):
The touch push?

Speaker 6 (17:36):
What's the best play to get a yard? Maybe a
QB sneak And it's hard to take it out or
it's hard to change it because it's so.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Necessary in the game.

Speaker 6 (17:48):
Because sometimes you just need to fall forward and get
the first down.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
And to the Philadelphia Eagles credit, they do it well.
I mean, Buffalo got to the AFC Championship and they
looked unprepared when they had Superman Josh Allen trying to
jump in the air and lean for a yard. It
looked it really looked like they didn't practice it. Philadelphia
practices it. They add decoys to it. I thought when

(18:16):
Kelsey left it wouldn't be as successful it is. It
does look a little dangerous, but so far, I don't
think there's any data that shows that it is. And
Philadelphia does it better than anybody else. That's their best argument.
We created it, we do it better than everybody else.
It's available to the entire league. Why are you banning it?
As of now it survives. But it was close, and

(18:38):
again I think Jason Kelsey highly respected him speaking to owners.
Probably push pushed it in Okay. Game one of the
Western Conference Finals is in the books, and it feels
like the series is in the books. So Oklahoma City
rolled through the NBA's regular season historically one an average

(19:00):
of twelve point nine points. That like Jordan's Bulls didn't
do that. And then they rolled Memphis in the first round,
and then they rolled Minnesota last night. The only team
and actually only player to give him real trouble is
Jokis Nikola Jokich, the Joker gave him trouble. They even
wore him down and Okase, like the Super Bowl champion
Philadelphia Eagles, are not really built on a player. They're

(19:24):
built on a general manager. Howie Roseman GM of the Eagles,
Sam Presty GM of the Thunder. They have built such
insanely deep and flexible rosters. You think the coach is good,
but is he necessary? They forced the Tea Wolves to
only score from the outside. In fact, Minnesota only had
twenty points in the paint. That's their lowest total. And

(19:46):
there are big team since twenty fifteen. Julius Randall kept
him in the game in the first half, shot the
ball well, hit a bunch of threes. Once that dried up,
the offense dried up. This is a team that they're
not necessarily huge. But you ever watch a foot team,
like you'll watch college football when Alabama was in its
prime and the defense was just crushing people, and you're like,

(20:06):
do they have thirteen players on the field, Like it
looks like they have extra players. Oklahoma City's defense looks
like they're playing seven guys. So Jokic could get his,
but Murray didn't get his, Porter couldn't get his. They
just shut off lanes and avenues and just think about this.
So Oklahoma City against a much better West, was thirty

(20:28):
nine and thirteen. So they dominated the West. They were
twenty nine and one against the East. See you're asking yourself,
are the Pacers and the Knicks which starts tonight? Are
they just playing for second place? So Aunt Edwards didn't
have a great night, didn't get a lot of shots.
Sometimes invisible I think he's gonna have to have four

(20:48):
or five games where he scores thirty plus, and I'm
not sure you can do this. This is just the
defense where a lot of these guys are just entering
their athletic prime, twitchy, fast, and Yokich is a great example.
They really cut Jokicic's passing lanes so the Joker could score,
but the passing lanes got cut down, and Yokich is

(21:11):
a much more totally refined offensive player than Aunt Edwards.
Here's what's scary. Oklahoma City's average age is twenty five
for a team that won sixty eight games by an
average winning total of thirteen points. So it's by the
second half. Once Julius Randall's threes didn't drop, this looked

(21:34):
like a total mismatch. Younger, quicker, better defensively with a
lot of levers to pull. Here's Aunt Edwards after.

Speaker 7 (21:45):
I definitely got to shoot mooars ho ten thirteen shots,
but I'll say, probably just get off the ball a
little more. Play without the ball. I think that'd be
the answer. Because playing on the body's son double and
they sit in the gaps all day, they clogged the
pain and that's what they do they don't got massage
down there, So kay, Banklamers and I make a shot

(22:07):
side this because every time I go to the Rams,
like four people at the paint. So yeah, I guess
they just be clogged in the paint. They put like
five four bodies in a paint and make you kick
it out. So just keep making the right play.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Now, here's the good news for Minnesota. They'll eventually go
to go play at home where they're really good. Chris
Finch and his staff have been excellent at shifting around
to second and third gears and figuring out ways to
get the most out of the offense. But if you
watch the second half, they were just overwhelmed. Memphis got overwhelmed,
the West got overwhelmed. The East beat him one time

(22:41):
in thirty games. Oklahoma City look really good led by defense.
Of course, SGA is excellent. He gets the whistle. But
I think the core of this thing is the depth,
the roster, construction, the aggressiveness of the defense. You know,
generally in sports, a great defense slows down a great offense.
If you were the Bulls and m had both. But

(23:02):
this looked like a mismatch last night. In the second half.
It looked really really ugly. All right, So jam something
else came out this morning. I love this so pff
they do this every year. They come out with a
tiers of quarterbacks, and it was interesting. I've got a
lot of thoughts on it. In my lifetime, there's always
been one thing that's true with the quarterback position. And

(23:24):
once again with PFFS quarterback rankings, they ranked everybody in
the league. I think, once again, this happened since I
was a kid. It happened during the Lway years, the
Montana years, the Brady years, and now during the Mahomes years.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 1 (23:48):
Oh wow, it's a Thursday show. We are live. It's
the Herd wherever you may be and however you may
be watching or listening. That was an all timer last night.
Epic is overrated. It was that plus jet fuel. It's
the Herd. That is one of the great playoff games,
not just played in New York. I gotta tell you something.

(24:13):
I'm sitting there watching it and I'm the first half.
Like at one point both teams were shooting like sixty
five percent in the first half. I'm like blood, am
I watching like AAU basketball Nobody wanted to d up.
And then in the second half Jmack when they were
ding up, it didn't matter. The Pacers caught fire. It's

(24:33):
it's one of the craziest things I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, yet certainly an all time great playoff game in
the NBA. And Tyrese Haliburt and Colin I mean, is
he a top ten player at this point? With this
guy just doesn't miss in the kluts.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
He's unbelievable. Okay, So the Knicks had a fourteen point lead,
wasn't much time left, and they lost in overtime. But
I'm gonna defend the Knicks. They did not choke. The
Knicks had three baskets and two free throws in the
final three minutes. They scored enough. Now, they had some
bad turnovers, but they scored enough. The story of the
game is give the Pacers credit. That was insane. They

(25:06):
couldn't miss in the last six minutes. They shot over
seventy percent and they were hard shots. Aaron Nesmith six
straight threes, three in the final minute. Now, this team
plays with pace and tempo, so they score fast. We
know that they've done it all season and they're a
great clutch team because of Halle. They're thirty one and
two when they score one hundred and twenty points or more.

(25:28):
So you do not want to get into a track
meet with the pacers. That's Milwaukee tried it, Cleveland tried it.
The Knicks tried it. Don't they never get tired them
like watching ninth graders. They never get tired. Charles Barkley
said it at halftime. This pace totally favors Indiana. And
what's remarkable about Haliburton and Indy is they play at

(25:50):
this pace and they don't turn it over. Then seven
turnovers on the road against the Knick size and the
Knicks to naw seven turnovers. Jalen Brunson a Loane ad seven,
So what you wanted last night? And I said, I
think Indy's gonna win the series. This is what they
did in Milwaukee, this is what they did the Cleveland.

(26:12):
They're controlling the Temple. Listen, give the next credit. Nick
should have won. They shot fifty one percent. They got
a bad bounce, And I think last night New York
beat everybody in the league except Halliburton, the Pacers and
maybe OKC. Halliburton got the bounce. Nie Smith was unbelievable.
How about the gone Zaga kid Nemhart multiple threes late,
Obi topping. I mean, it's just everything worked for them late.

(26:37):
But I'll tell you Halliburton is amazing because he reminds
me of Steve Nash. Steve Nash won an MVP averaging
fifteen a game. The next year he won another MVP
averaging eighteen a game. But Steve Nash, one of the
smartest athletes I've ever met, had unbelievable self awareness. And

(26:59):
that's Halliburton. What do you need all provide? The guy
plays with zero fear, but his self awareness. He knows
what the clock is is uncanny. The choke sign, I
love it, bring it on. But he is an all
timer man. He is the aggressor. He can play with physicality.
And again we can bang on the Knicks, but in
the last six minutes of the fourth and overtime they

(27:21):
scored twenty four points. The passers scored forty four on
seventy two percent shooting. That is unheard of. The Knicks
should have won. Now, the Knicks had too many turnovers.
But I think I think this comes down to Halliburton
and the Pacers play with the aggressiveness that I think

(27:42):
Celtic fans wish Tatum and Boston did like they just
played Downhill and Lamar Jackson could throw forty eight times
a game and win. But that's not how Lamar and
the Ravens are built. They're a power football team with
Derrick Henry. Knicks stayed in this game, shot fifty one percent.

(28:03):
But this is gonna be a six or seven game series.
This is not what the Knicks are And yesterday on
this show, I kept saying over and over the Pacers
play the fastest pace in the league. What a perfect
name for a team. Last three years, Knicks are the
slowest team. That's not a bad thing for the playoffs.
Half court offense is great. They play the slowest pace.
Whoever wins the pace will win this series. And the

(28:28):
Knicks almost pulled it off. And if you remember last
year when these two teams played, what happened. Indiana played
really really quick up tempo and over time the Knicks
wore were down. This didn't have the body, so in
these got more bodies. They're built for this their guys
are in their prime. Halliburton controlled it like he did

(28:48):
against Cleveland, like he did against the Bucks. The Knicks
almost pulled it off. But here's Halley after Basketball's fun.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
Then, Yeah, I'm so proud.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Of the resilience of this group. We're showing it all year.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
We had to win in so many different, random.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Unique ways. I'd today.

Speaker 7 (29:07):
We just kept going, kept fighting, and uh man, that's one.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
There's Halliburtons is a lot like Steve Nash and that
everybody that played with Steve Nash was at their best.
He'd give you fifteen, but he elevated everybody. James Harden
scored a lot of guys that score Halliburton. This is
a one star team with a bunch of B plus players.
But what's amazing is the B plus players for Indiana.

(29:35):
Because of Halliburton and self awareness and movement and pace,
they're all playing at an a level like all of
Indiana's players are rising to the moment. This is not
about the Knicks not playing well. This is about Indiana
being on fire and making a remarkable number of big shots.
If you did not hear the final call, we'll give

(29:58):
it to you from the Pacers. Radio Network. Halliburton driving,
he's in the lane, he nearly lost, and he backs
up and unloads a three.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Beck did not happen. It hit the back of the rim.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
It popped high into the air, and it dropped gently
through the net and the pacers, and the scoreboard shows
one twenty five, one twenty five. It's called a two
point shot.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
So it's just it's an incredible moment. And I'll get
to two things that worry me about the Knicks going forward.
Let's now talk about Brunson. So Jalen had forty three
points and you say to yourself, that's a great night.
But he had seven turnovers. Why because he's playing faster
than he's used to. That's the most turnovers Jalen Brunson

(30:48):
has had all season. And he also got into foul trouble. Again.
We're asking somebody who can type forty words a minute
to type sixty. You know, it's just this isn't what
he's built for than Halliburton. Are two very different players.
Brunson's a score small, strong, he uses you know, his leverage,

(31:08):
he uses his hips, he does that mid post game.
He just plays way bigger than his height. But he
is a scorer and a finisher. He sometimes is plotting.
He wants to get you in that half court. He
wants to work you. He's gonna work his shoulders, he's
gonna work his hips. Halliburton's different. He's long, gangly, herky jerki.

(31:33):
It's kind of awkward. He's strong and can use it
a couple of times on occasion. But what he is,
he's the pace car. He is the guy that's gonna okay,
I'm gonna tell you how fast we're all gonna play.
And you can't stop him because he's just so long
and gangly. He's a very awkward player. He's hard to defend.
The two things that worry me about New York after

(31:55):
last night, first of all, Karl Anthony Towns. That's about
as good as he can play. In the play. He
was efficient, He's not always efficient. He hit his threes.
He didn't get in foul trouble. You know Caat gets
in foul trouble. Kat does dumb fouls. He's a really
good offensive player, but through his career he drives you nuts.
I thought Kat last night was spectacular. I don't know

(32:16):
if he can duplicate that. I just don't know if
he can play any better than that. It was fun
watching it. The second thing is Bronson gonna say, hey man,
I got forty three, I'm gonna play this temple. We're scoring,
we should have won the game. They could talk themselves
into that. So but again, I'll say it last year
when these two teams played in the end of the series.

(32:38):
I mean, Brunson last night, because of foul trouble, played
the fewest minutes of any New York Knicks starter. That
is not what you want. I don't care if he
scored forty three points and to lose in overtime when
you have the shorter bench game one, you blow a
pretty big lead at that pace. I didn't love it.

(32:59):
That's a game at feel like for the road team
to win that game and control the tempo. Didn't love
it for New York. Here's Brunson after give them a
lot of credit. They close the game out like they've
been doing the all playoffs.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
Just not really good on our part.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
For all the players, and I know it wasn't a
huge number, but for the players that said Haliburton is overrated.
Check yourself, because when I'm watching and we were sitting
there t I mean, I look at all I look
at the box score, and the difference is Knicks had
twice as many turnovers and a couple of costly ones
in overtime. That's your ball game. But I'm gonna push back.

(33:40):
I'm gonna push back on the choke thing. The Knicks
scored six minutes left, they scored twenty four points. That's enough.
And by the way, you have turnovers when you're playing
above your tempo. But I think what you're seeing with
Halliburton here, and I don't know if it's an eight.
I don't know if you're born with it. But there

(34:01):
are some people that not only does he rise in
the moment, but he elevates all his teammates in the moment.
I mean, I got nothing against the Pacer squad. It's
a really good team. But there's a lot of b
guys right now that are playing an A level on
the road in New York against the really well coached team.
What you're watching with Indiana is we just got to

(34:22):
give them credit. We can blame the Knicks on this.
You got to give Indiana credit. They are really really
and we said this, j Mac, you called it. You
picked them over Cleveland and one of the reasons you
did you fell in love with Halliburton last year. Last
year on the show, folks, if you didn't listen, he
went crazy on Halliburton. He basically called in the next

(34:43):
Magic Johnson, and I don't think that's his style. But
I do see a lot of Steve Nash. He can score,
he can take the foot off the gas, he can play.
But Nash, just will you watch Steve Nash? How did
Steve Nash win the MVP at fifty in a game?
Because he controlled the basketball game. Steve Nash literally control
every game he was in. People were like, how can
you win MVP? You had to watch the Sons play.

(35:04):
What Indiana's doing and you caught on to it last
year is they are between Caitlin Clark and the Pacers.
They are so much to me fun to watch. Yeah,
I love the Halliburton story.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
You know, Midwest kid grew up under recruited, the big
colleges didn't want him. I love the stories of these
underdogs coming out of nowhere. Colin he's emerging right now,
honestly as one of the most clutch players.

Speaker 7 (35:27):
In the league.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
And I mean, I don't see how he's not like
an All NBA guy. How he's not like a top
ten player. He does everything and like you said, makes
everyone around him better.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Think about that, much like Nash. Last two years, we've
talked about the Sixers and the Celtics, and we've talked
about all these teams, Pacers back to back, back to
back Eastern Conference finals.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Well, let's be real, the Knicks are not in that
much trouble. It took six threes from Nei Smith in
the fourth quarter. That's I believe, an NBA record. Like listen,
we're not gonna see that again. However, the choke by
my Knicks has me a little nervous because you know,
they go into Game two, can't blow Game two, and
Pacers have sown a propensity.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
They stole a Game two in Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
I mean, the thing about India is they're completely fearless.
Homer away doesn't matter, and I think some of that
is it's almost like hockey. It's when you play fast
the road crowd, you're flying by the crowd. This is
not a plodding half court offense where the fans are

(36:34):
on you. They're just up and down the floor. It's
hard to get your arms around Indiana. They're just breakneck.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
I'm not comparing him in any way to the showtime Lakers,
but the Celtics could do more half court. The Lakers
were up and down the floor. Nash's sons were up
and down the floor. Jordan's bulls could do a lot
of half court stuff. So it's just it's they just
watching Indiana, I you know. I obviously the New York
crowd's insane and wonderful. You can't tell where they're playing.

(37:04):
Every time the Pacers play, it looks the same.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
and noone Easter. They're not a Empacific.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
And with that, Channing Fry, who started his career in
New York for the Nicks, is now joining a fly
a man thirteen years in the NBA. That was I
don't even know. It's just crazy. So how do you view?
Like I said, I think basketball players are artists. Like
I've always said, you all got your quirky mannerisms and

(37:33):
idiosyncratic styles. What do you make a HALLI Burton in
the choke.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
First of all trees is one of the nicest human
beings ever.

Speaker 8 (37:42):
I think when I think when he got voted most
overrated person, I think that was a problem. There was
a time when the Pacers were playing the Calves in
that the crowd started chanting overrated and Donovan Mitchell was
telling them be quiet, like.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
The players like stop it, and then he went off.

Speaker 8 (38:05):
I text Tyrese and I said, hey, you are garbage
the first three quarters and then all of a sudden
you go into the phone booth and come out like Superman.
It's unbelievable. The plays that he does. I wouldn't have
never had to wherewithal you know, most players in that
situation would take the two because they're like, oh, I
just want to you know, we'll tie the game up.

(38:27):
He had a wide open layup, turned his back, looked
at the other clock, found the three point line sort of,
and then shot a three over Mitchell Robinson, who's a
seven foot dude who has the longest arms, you know,
and look at this like this is the layup right here,
and he goes nope and shot that for game. It's like,

(38:49):
you cannot make this up. I played with a lot
of great players. I don't know four of the greatest
players that I played with that would have shot that shot,
but like the belief that he has in himself and
his team that they have. I thought the Pacers in
that fourth quarter they dismantled the Necks by being a
better team, where the Knicks had a better player in Brunton, right.

(39:14):
I think Og was the only one who shot a
shot in the last five minutes of that fourth quarter.
In the overtime where the Pacers everyone had to play.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Obie Topp and Nie Smith went absolutely who was that?

Speaker 8 (39:28):
Was that?

Speaker 4 (39:28):
N Curry like it was? But it was? It was
so good, so.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Good Channing you know who he does remind me of,
I said this an hour ago. His self awareness, his
ability to score but elevate others. He reminds me of
a guy who played with Steve Nash. Nash won an
MVP averaging fifty in the game, came back the next
year won another MVP averaging eighty. Everybody's like, well, wa wait,
you can't win. No, no, no, yes you can. Everybody

(39:56):
played their best ball. But Nash, who's one of the
smartest guys I've ever met. I mean, like in or
out of sports, Nash had the self awareness. Nash had this,
I know, he could drive people crazy. He had the
self awareness to know the temple to score, who was weak,
who was in foul tra It was like a good quarterback.
He knew your soft spot and he would attack it.

(40:16):
And so I to me, Hallie's got a little Nash
in him.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
I think he has a lot. I think he has
a lot.

Speaker 8 (40:24):
I think he is the only star in our league
that can be a star and score ten points a game.
Like he can have ten points and he can dominate
the whole game. I think he's the only one like that.
He is a true pass first point guard. And if
he wasn't that way, the Pacers would not be who

(40:44):
they are. Like if the Pacers had Brunson, I don't
think they would be the Pacers. The fact that everyone
of their starters scored in that fourth quarter in over time,
the fact that everyone when they go on a run,
everyone knows where the ball's going.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
They believe in their culture, the fact that they stood.

Speaker 8 (41:05):
Pat really didn't bring anyone in last year or this
year and just said, hey, we went to the Eastern
Conference finals, let's run his back.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
Their belief in each other is crazy.

Speaker 8 (41:15):
It is because Halliburn is never playing with his ego
he's playing with the fire to win games. So like
there are games where sometimes he's gonna have two points. Now,
is that a bad game for him?

Speaker 4 (41:26):
For sure? But they could still.

Speaker 8 (41:27):
Win with him scoring two points because he's doing this
all game. He's not pressuring, but when it's time to win,
they all look to him to make a play. And
I think we No one brought this up, but like
even when they beat the Bucks, you know, there's no
way Tyre's Halliburton, I texted, I told him this on
the phone.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
I said that a.

Speaker 8 (41:48):
Week old left to right crossover shouldn't have got past nobody.
And you go pass Janis and to Takoumpo and lay
that ball up in his face for game yannis Is,
he's a top five defender in the league, and how
does you with no muscles, a weird looking jump shot
get by him.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
And do this?

Speaker 8 (42:07):
He goes, I don't know, man, I just be I
just got to do what I gotta do. And so
you know, for me, I think there's gonna be a
great series. Obviously, the game one was nuts. It's gonna
come down to the Knicks defense and can the Pacers
continually play that pace? Well, look at that paces play
the pace in this series.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
I'm curious to see the changes the Knicks make the
next game.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, I said, last night Brunson has forty three, but
he had seven turnovers and he got in early foul trouble.
And I said, it's almost like being a typist that
types fifty words a minute, and Halliburton made Brunson type
seventy words a minute and he he was I felt like,
even though he got the points, I don't think it's
one of the great Jalen Brunson games because he had

(42:52):
more turnovers last night than he had all year. And
I really thought the story of the game is that
it was in D five hundred and that's nothing that
style and I Indie got them to play exactly like
they wanted, and Brunson kind of said, Okay, I'll do this.
Maybe it's vanity ego, I get it, but like I'm like, Okay,
if you're gonna play that way, then you have to
win that game. In regulation in New York, you can't

(43:13):
lose that game.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (43:16):
I think one thing we're not taking into account is
watch that fourth quarter. They started double team bruntson aggressively.
Remember he got trapped in the back court and he
just threw the ball. If Siakam was in the right place,
that would have been a turnover. They double teamed him,
but he fell down. He got a foul when he
gets double teams. He is very uncomfortable in these situations.

(43:37):
And look how many players they put like that. That's
a simple double team. Look at this another double team.
So like to me, their offense stalled out in that
fourth quarter. And here's the real coming.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
To Jesus moment.

Speaker 8 (43:49):
They are hunting, hunting him and Cat in screening roles.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Yeah, it is wild to watch. You look at the clip.

Speaker 8 (43:57):
Every time Nie Smith made a three, it was except
for one at the end of the game with Josh
Smith and Mitchell, which they should have switched, which is
a stupid mistake. A dude who has seventeen points and
they're running a specific play for him, switch, Let Obi
Toppen shoot a three. Anybody else with the dude who's hot,
So like that was a mental error. But they are

(44:18):
going at Cat and I don't know if you saw
the clip of Og yelling at Cat after you know
he just laid on that screen.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
That's gonna be a problem because.

Speaker 8 (44:27):
Now the three things the Pacers did that game is
they found out Runton gets in foul trouble and turns
the ball over when you aggressively double team.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
One. Two Kat does not want to move his feet.
End of game. He's exhausted. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (44:42):
Three, if you go at Brunson, he stalls the offense
out in that fourth quarter because they can't run a
screen and roll with him anymore because he's uncomfortable getting
double team. So if you notice those clips, he's going
one on one in Nie Smith and them Hard and
Shepherd and Ali Burdon and Siyakam, all those dudes are

(45:02):
taking turns guarding him. So at six on one, yeah,
he's exhausted and no one else is touching the ball.
They need to play him as Steph Curry in the
fourth quarter instead of Brunson.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
So he's throw the.

Speaker 8 (45:15):
Ball the cat, run some away screens, get him to
run towards the ball.

Speaker 4 (45:19):
But is he comfortable doing that? And can the next
win play in that game? We'll see. I'm very curious
to see how it works.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
You know, it's so chanting. Fry joining us for already audience,
one of my favorite people that covers this league and
talks about it. So in New York is fascinating. Jordan
had some of his best games there, Kobe had some
of his best games there. I mean, Halliburton is having
the time of his life. New York's a weird place
that it inspires the great players, even though it's a
home court advantage. You started your career there. Take my

(45:51):
audience too. I remember watching Big East games there and
I'm like, this is crazy. Tell me take my audience
to playing as a neck as an opponent in Madison
Square Garden. It feels different to me.

Speaker 8 (46:06):
So, you know, the college experience is that when you're
a really good player or a really good team, the
opposing team booju the whole time. When you go to
the garden, it's like being in the center of like
you you're a gladiator.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
You're winning the crowd over And that's the problem.

Speaker 8 (46:25):
That's the problem because if you start hooping, they the
oohs and ohs are like it gets you even more adrenaline.
And the Knicks fans have so much basketball knowledge that
if you do some good they'll they'll be like, dang,
that's a good job, man, that's tough. Where other fans
are like boo whatef you when you suck, They're not

(46:47):
saying that.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
So if you start doing.

Speaker 8 (46:49):
Well, it's a problem because all of a sudden, you're
feeding on their adrenaline. You're feeding on shutting them up.
And as a Knicks player, you have to each game
when the fans back over.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
So it's not like you could just walk on the
court and be loved.

Speaker 8 (47:07):
It's you could walk on the court, mister first four
and Tracy Morgan's like, stop shooting the ball, your big dummy.
You're like, wait, I just had forty last game. So
to me, it is the greatest place to play basketball.
And I promise if anyone has an opportunity to go
watch basketball or even you know, hockey there, it is
so historic, so beautiful.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
But yet it's not a regular arena.

Speaker 8 (47:31):
You are playing like at the park where they may
talk crap to you.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
You could talk crap to them, but if you start cooking.
Look at think about what Tray Young.

Speaker 8 (47:39):
Trey Young pokes at them all the time, and they
react to it because it's a it's a movie, it's theater.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
It's yea.

Speaker 8 (47:47):
It encompasses like the New York attitude of who's gonna
give me?

Speaker 4 (47:52):
The best show.

Speaker 8 (47:53):
They dim the lights on the in the in the
stadium so you just focus on the court. It's it's
you know, I'm getting goosebumps talking about it.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
It is such a great opportunity to play there.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Well, it starts with Rucker Park, it goes to Broadway,
it goes to the Big East Tournament, it goes to
New York. New Yorkers are very well versed on great
and they appreciate it. Oh listen, I always said about
New York. I didn't love the traffic, I didn't love
the weather. I loved the people. The people are seven
pizza or they love their Okay, let's go, let's go

(48:27):
to Minnesota. Ok see, like they here's the thing with
Aunt and I think this is a reality of the
modern player. Like there was never a timement with Michael Jordan.
I can remember the Utah Finals. Mike shot like thirty
three times, made seven. Mike went down swinging, like sometimes
with Tatum or sometimes with Ant. I'm like, bro, thirteen shots.

(48:49):
What's going on? I think the modern player, they're all
rich and it's a more collaborative world. And sometimes like
when the shots don't fall, like guys are like Okay,
I'm not going to and I just I grew up
with Michael and it says like, No, Michael didn't have
that he was gonna take the shots. Kobe was gonna
take the shots. Could I argue with Ant that he's
not forceful enough at times?

Speaker 8 (49:13):
No, I think the rules are different. When Mike won
the ball back in the nineties, the three seconds, they
he could go play one on one and if he missed,
he miss Now, if you notice Okayc's defense, they basically
put their best on ball defenders, so they're up in
ants joshtrap.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
They force him to drive into help. Look at this.

Speaker 8 (49:37):
Look how many people are technically guarding him on that
play alone, he had four different people.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Look what does he see right there? So he what
does he see?

Speaker 8 (49:45):
Look, he's being double team triple teams Like this is
what I think people don't understand about Okay, see.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
Double teams right there. They are making him.

Speaker 8 (49:53):
They do such a good job of making players have
early pickups and throw the ball these line passes while
guys are just shooting passing lanes.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
It's absolutely gorgeous to watch them play.

Speaker 8 (50:07):
I think Aunt doesn't want to settle for threes because
that's the only thing they're giving up.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
They're like, we'll give you threes. We've seen you go
over eleven.

Speaker 8 (50:15):
And for him, he doesn't have lanes until his others
win a game.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Ant is gonna have problems finding lanes to attack the rim,
so he wants to play good basketball. Okac is forcing.

Speaker 8 (50:29):
Him to trust his teammates, right, And this is the
attitude that I've seen in the first game. There's one
player on Minnesota that could beat us, and we're not
gonna let you play basketball. Anybody else can try and
beat us, but we believe in our others more than
your others.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
And it worked.

Speaker 8 (50:46):
And so Aunt, let's say he does shoot thirty times,
how many of those are.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
Gonna be near the rim? Not very many. They're gonna
be twenty nine threes.

Speaker 8 (50:54):
He just it's like in today's game, if you don't
have movement, if you're a great one on one guy
the way Okac plays defense, you're not comfortable.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
You're not getting to your spot.

Speaker 8 (51:08):
Because even if one guy gets foul trouble, Oh oh,
Lou Dorg gets in foul trouble.

Speaker 4 (51:13):
Oh, here go Caruso, Here go Isaiah Joe, he.

Speaker 8 (51:16):
Goes Ga he goes, look how many different people and
like even this play right here the wherewithal for that
team to stay to fan out right not help and
let check play at one on one is just their
one conscious mind and one.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Thing to notice for the next game or tonight.

Speaker 8 (51:35):
Watch how many guys when big men are around, you know,
our guards usually go over the top. Watch how many
times they swipe down and don't go for the block.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
They allow Hartenstein and Chet to be.

Speaker 8 (51:46):
Tall while they swipe the ball and make the guy
don't have a straight line to go shoot.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
And I give you an example. It's like remember when Jr.

Speaker 8 (51:55):
Or swiped at Andre Guidala so he didn't have a
dunk during the twenty sixteen five and he had to
go shoot that layup So he knew not the foul,
but he just wanted Andre to you know, kind of
avoid him, and it gave Lebron an opportunity to get
that block.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
They do this all game long.

Speaker 8 (52:11):
It is like such a mind meld to see their
discipline on defense.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
I mean, OKC is my pick to win at all.

Speaker 8 (52:20):
I just don't see anybody that has a big man
that can take advantage of them inside and they kick
out with threes is really.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Don't wait to beat him.

Speaker 8 (52:30):
But you know, like Lord had Mercy, poor poor Minnesota.
There there are others that you're gonna need to shoot
the ball.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
All right, let's end with this. Clippers are a well
run organization. Lawrence Frank is a smart guy. But Sam
Presty stole SGA from them. I remember when he was
in Kentucky and came out. I didn't think he was
the best Kentucky player. He's a combination of like eight
percent Keiky vandaway nine percent Alex English. You know, he's
a we He's a different player that initiates contact contact.

(52:57):
He doesn't have like a loophole move like James Harden.
He just he's just one of these guys that may
not jump out. I mean, obviously he's a great player,
but I mean Sam Presty kind of stole him. Are
you surprised by how dominant he has become? Did you
see it seven years ago?

Speaker 8 (53:17):
Man, when he was on the Clippers. I remember being
in the back going, Yo, that dude is good when
he gets his opportunity. I thought he would be a
perennial All Star. But what Shay does that is great
and people take this, don't take this into account. Watch
how many times he puts two feet in the paint.
So like his aggression is so constant and continuous, Like

(53:40):
every single one of these clips, he puts two feet
in the paint and gets look at look at his aggression.
So we're clipping saying, oh, he's foul bating. Who goes
to the hole more than him? I don't know very
many people that constantly go to the hole as much
as he does. So let's say he goes to the
hole one hundred times, he gets fouled twenty. Well, other
people go the whole twenty times, they get fouled five.

(54:02):
It's just the way their system is, the way that
they have shooters. They spread the floor. But he's a
willing passer and they have good shooters. So like his
job is to just get to the paint, Just get
to the paint. And man, he just looks at the
game so specifically he works on a certain part. Does
his shoulders get a little bigger so now he can

(54:24):
bump better? Is his footwork better? Is his you know,
right to left better? Does he like to go left?
Does he like to go right? He's looked at this
every single year and dissected his game.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
And so you know, you talking.

Speaker 8 (54:35):
About hoopers and guys who are psycho. He is psycho
and that's why he's MVP.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Yeah, he's a bit obsessed. I mean I always say
this about Brady. Brady was the best quarterback mechanically I've
ever seen. And it allowed Brady to be the best
cold weather snowthrower I've ever seen. Wasn't because he had
the biggest arm. His mechanics were impervious to weather. His
literally is torque, his shoulders, his feet. I mean, Tom
was obsessed. He practiced full instead of getting sacked. And

(55:02):
that's as Chase you're watching. You're watching an artist who
has honed his craft. That's that's what he's done. Okay, now,
Channing Fry, you're so good at this, my man. You
gave us twenty minutes.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Oh thank you. I appreciate it, man, And you didn't
have to.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
I'm gonna have you. We're gonna have you back soon, buddy.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
Anytime you want. Man, I appreciate it. You have a
good day.