Boxing with Chris Mannix - Canelo's Next Move

Mannix and Keith Idec discuss the news of Canelo's departure from PBC, his likely return to DAZN, why the David Benavidez fight isn't happening, where PBC goes from here, reaction to the Devin Haney-Ryan Garcia press tour and more; later, Raymond Ford on fighting for his first world title, the wake up call he received in 2022, if he's one-and-done with the belt at 126-pounds, more. #Volume #Herd

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

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This is Boxing with Chris Manning.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
There's somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is
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Yeah.

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Posted by Sis Chris Mannix. That was my moments Now
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Speaker 2 (01:50):
When you have talent, you are given another chance.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Here's Chris Mannix.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
And we are back Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of
the Volume Sports podcast network as always, but to welcome
everyone listening on the podcast feed. If you are not
a subscriber, get over the Boxing with Chris Mannics feed.
Hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get this pod
in your feed every single week so wild week in boxing.
Not in the ring. Oh Egar bolanc had a good

(02:18):
win this past weekend in Florida. It was down there
for that, but outside the ring where Canelo Alvarez is
now a network free agent once again, his three fight
deal with PBC evaporating, becoming a one fight deal that
ended because PBC and Canelo could not agree on opponents

(02:38):
for May and September of this year. We're going to
talk about all that. Keith Idek, longtime boxing writer, friend
of the podcast. He's going to join me to dive
into that everything that's to do with Canelo. We're also
going to talk about the Ryan Garcia Devin Haney press tour,
which has taken place this week in New York and
Los Angeles. I was on the New York leg of

(02:58):
the press tour, spoke to both these guys one on one,
conducted a face off between these two which was terrific.
He should check that out on YouTube probably in the
next couple of weeks. And we're gonna talk about how
competitive this fight really is because when you look at
Devin Haney, you see a guy that is right now
peaking as a fighter. When you look at Ryan Garcia,

(03:19):
you see a big time talent, a big time puncher,
but someone that is still trying to figure his craft out,
someone that is now on his second fight with trainer
Derek James, who had some inconsistencies in his last fight
against Oscar Duarte. We're going to talk about how competitive
fight is going to be and what could be waiting
for the winner in two thousand and twenty four. So

(03:40):
great conversation with Keith Idek. A little bit later on
Raymond Ford, the one hundred and twenty six pound contender.
He is going for his first world title fighting on
Saturday Night Live on ESPN when he takes on Autoback
Kolmatov for the one hundred and twenty six pound belt.
Vacant one hundred and twenty six pound belt. To talk
to ray about the of his career, which seemed like

(04:04):
it was taking a turn for the worse back in
twenty twenty two when he won a very controversial decision
over Edward Vasquez. Uh, the fighter I saw in twenty
twenty two did not look world championship caliber. The fighter
I saw over the next three fights absolutely looked world

(04:24):
championship calendar. I'll talk to ray about the changes he
made in the aftermath of that controversial win and why
he believes it will put him in position to fight
a very dangerous opponent in Kolmatov on Saturday. So, great
conversation with gray Ford, great episode this week. So when
we come back my conversation with Keith Ideck. All Right,

(04:52):
Keith Iideck, friend of the podcast. I am no longer
introing you though as senior writer Boxing scene dot Com.
I've moved on. Is there anything you want to tell
us about what's next in the world of Keith Idec.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Well, I am a senior writer unfortunately for me, no
matter who I'm writing for, unfortunately. But now Chris, Yeah,
it was a great run we had at Boxing Scene.
I left the newspaper industry in twenty sixteen willingly and
went to this job, and it worked out better than
I ever could have imagined. I think, you know, a
lot of us who were responsible for what we did

(05:28):
at Boxing Scene for the last seven years or so,
and what Rick did from the time he started to
site in two thousand and three have a lot to
be proud of. You know, we busted our butts collectively
for a very long time, and you know, Paramount decided
to sell the website after Showtime got out of boxing,
which was an understandable move from their standpoint. And you know,

(05:50):
so moving forward with several freelance opportunities for now and
some things I can't really discuss at the moment, but
definitely staying and covering boxing for sure and looking forward
to it.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, I'm glad you're still in boxing, Keith, still covering boxing,
because you are still one of the most plugged in
insiders in this sport, which makes you the perfect guy
to talk to today, because it has been a wild
last few days in boxing. And I'm not even talking
about the press tour for Ryan Garcia and Devin Handy.

(06:23):
We're gonna get to that in a couple of minutes.
But the big news this week is that for the
second time in as many years, Canelo Alvarez is a
network free agent. Canelo and PBC mutually agreeing to part
ways this week after the two sides could not get
together on an opponent for Canelo in May, reports indicating

(06:46):
that PBC preferred a big name like David Benavidez or
Terence Crawford. Canelo Alvarez reportedly was pushing for a fight
against Jamal Charlow, and with that much money potentially at stake,
PBC was not willing to do it. Canelo was not
willing to budge. Those two sides for now are going
to go there separate ways. So what we think is

(07:09):
going to happen is that Canelo is going to fight
on Dezonne for his next fight. The two leading candidates
at the moment are Edgar Berlanga, who is coming off
a win over Padre McCrory this past weekend, a knockout
win over McCrory, and himI Mungea, one of the bigger
stars in Mexican boxing forty two to zero, coming off

(07:32):
a knockout win over John Ryder back in January. So
we're going to talk about those potential options, Keith, But
the question is how did we get here? How did
this much celebrated three fight deal with PBC become a
one fight deal with that one fight being a lackluster

(07:53):
one against Jermel Charlo. How did we get here?

Speaker 4 (07:56):
Well, it's my understanding, Chris, that they wanted a commitment
from him that he was going to fight David Benevetez
after fighting Jamal Charlo of course, Canelo going into that
fight would have been a heavy favorite to beat Jamal
Charlo based on his inactivity and where Canelo is in
his career, whereas Charlo is in his career, not necessarily
a fight that there was much of a public appetite for,
if any appetite at all. So if they were going

(08:19):
to guarantee him X amount of dollars for that type
of fight, which would not have been well received from
you in the court of public opinion, people were not
going to the diehard Canelo fans will buy the fight
no matter who he fights. Of course in Mexico has
shown on free TV and all that, But I don't
think there would have been people rushing to click the

(08:39):
buy button if he fought Jamal Charlo on May fourth.
So they were in a tough position there, and I
understand from their standpoint wanting to get a commitment from
him to if he wins that fight, for him to
take the fight that they want, that everyone wants, we
all want him to fight David Benavidez, that everyone wants
Canelo to fight David Benavidez, except apparently Canelo. So if

(09:04):
you're not going to get that kind of commitment from him.
I could understand them not guaranteeing. You know, the number
thirty five million has been floated around quite often. That's
it's more so, you know, if it's a lot of money,
and if you're going to lose money on an event,
you want some sort of assurance from him that you're

(09:26):
going to recoup that money and then some in the
next event. So I get it them moving in a
different direction, and I understand his own's willingness to work
with Canelo. Again, he's still the biggest star in American boxing.
You know, Gravonte Davis is a big star in his
own right, but Canelo is still the most established star
in American boxing. He'll do pay per view business no

(09:47):
matter who he fights. But I think at a certain
point when he's taking fight, it's just very difficult Chris,
as you will know, and I know you've discussed this
on the podcast with other other guys and everything. It's
very difficult to come off the Jamel Charlow fight with
the bad taste that was left in everyone's mouth based
on how that fight went, and then try to sell

(10:07):
him fighting his brother. Now, Jamal might have stood there
and fought and maybe taken a beating. That doesn't make
anyone feel any better when you're paying eighty five dollars
to watch a fight that you knew was not going
to be the type of fight you wanted to see.
So I think that's sort of how we got here.
And Chris, I don't understand if you're Canelo, what are

(10:29):
the fights you want to see Canelo in the most.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well, begins with David Benavitez, or that's the obvious one.
So after that, after that it's kind of, well, i'll
give you you, I'll let you go there a second,
but after that it's to me a coin flip between
Terrence Crawford himI mcgeeah. Those are the two that I
would be most interested in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
Okay, so wholeheartedly agree with you. Benavitez is the fight
everyone wants to see. I don't know. He hasn't really
said one way or the other. He just doesn't want
to fight him, just because he said so. I'm not
saying he's afraid of him or anything like that, or
that he couldn't win the fight. He clearly does not
want to fight David Betevitez. I don't know how you
can make the argument that he does, or the fight

(11:11):
would have happened already. So he doesn't want to fight him.
He's the number one guy, And then, however, anyone ranks
it from there. I don't love the Crawford fight from
a competitive standpoint. There are people who do, but I
do agree with everyone that it's a very marketable fight. Well,
he doesn't want to take that fight because he feels
like he wouldn't receive any credit for beating a guy

(11:32):
who's three weight classes below him. That's somewhat understandable, okay,
But now you're taking the two most marketable fights off
the table. Then you say, okay, well what about fighting
Jimi Mungee? And I know he's changed his stance on
this a little bit, and I'm not saying Jimi Mungy
is necessarily third, but well, I don't want to fight
another Mexican. Okay, Well what about fighting Bivoll? Now, of

(11:54):
course Biball has committed to fighting better Bam. What about
fighting the rematch with Bibbell? Oh, I don't want to
do it at one hundred and sixty eight pounds because
I won't get credit because he'll be wake drained. So
it has to be at one seventy five. At a
certain point, who do you want to fight Edgar Berlanga.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
I mean that that's certainly direction. It seems to be
trending at this point. The Benavidez stuff is just weird
because there seems to be two different stories surrounding it. Right,
You've got Benavidez his team led by Samson Lukawitz, out
there saying that they have made an offer that would
guarantee Canelo fifty five million dollars that could be worth

(12:36):
sixty million dollars. This, by the way, is not a
This is an offer that they've come to the table
with publicly before. Right where they had said last year
that there would be some guarantees nor the forty million,
and that Canelo could make more than fifty million to
fight Benavitez last year. They've upped that offer, at least
the public talk of that offer this year. Then you

(12:58):
have you know, even knows the trainer and manager of
Canelo Alvarez that came out and said that no one
has offered them a David Benavidez fight. So this isn't
a case keith of it being misinterpreted or some ambiguity
someone's just straight up lying here, someone is being dishonest

(13:20):
about this offer. Now we both know that Canelo wants
his money guaranteed, right, he wants his money not upfront,
but you know there he wants to know that he's
going to make X dollars the day after that fight.
It's going to be in his account. Could that be
part of it? Could there could there be talk of
him fighting Benavidez and making fifty five million assuming the

(13:42):
pay per view does really well? Or is this just
a question if somebody is straight up lying and the audience,
including us, is being misled.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
You know, Chris, I'd be reluctant to say anyone specifically
is lying because I don't know every conversation that everyone's
had with everyone. All I know is that ABC people
want him to fight David Benavitez. He hasn't really shown.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
H Well, man, Keith, let me ask you this. Was
this a conversation they had last year? I mean, look,
Jamal Charlo is on the list of opponents that Canelo
could fight because at the time last year, Jamal Charlo
fight made sense. I mean, Jamal Charlo was the original
opponent for Canelo. In September he fell out, his brother
took his place, and Jamal his issues have been well chronicled.

(14:27):
But David Benavitez was on the rise last year. He
beat Caleb Plant this past March, like was David Benavitez discussed,
you know when Canelo signed this three fight deal.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Well, the interesting thing Chris is what if he would
have fought Jamal Charlo in September. Say, Charlo is in
the right headspace and in position to train. It would
have been a hard sell coming off that long of
a layoff, of course, taking that tough of a fight.
At the same time, Let's just say he fought Jamal
Charlo in September. Well, then where are we? I mean,
Jameal Charlo's out of the equation obviously, because you couldn't

(14:58):
beat Jamal Charlo and say, well, I'd like to fight
his brother, who's two way classes low smaller, So where
would we be? Then it had to have been discussed
with him about fighting Benavidez. I mean, that's the fight
that everyone wants. And at that point, of course, Chris
Crawford wasn't in the mix as a potential opponent because
he hadn't fought Spence yet, So who were they talking

(15:19):
about him fighting if this was all proposed then they
came up with what was supposed to be a three
fight agreement. Who would they have talked about him fighting
beyond Jamal Charlow at that point. And the other thing
to keep in mind, Chris is on the PBC side
of it, they're more than open to working with Canelo again.
They're not closing the door on him fighting on the
PBC platform again, and I don't think he's against it either.

(15:42):
He's made good money in these fights and the fight
that he's been treated very well. Of course did his
own people obviously have treated him very well too, and
so is match Room and all. But he seems to
have been satisfied with how he was treated, how he
was paid, how the events were handled and everything. And
they were both The Plant fight was more successful from
a paper your standpoint. But so they were open to

(16:05):
working with him again. But he's going to be thirty
four years old in July. So let's just say for
arguments today, Chris, the rest of this year winds up
being him fighting him beating Edgar Bolanga on May fourth,
and then and then presumably fighting Heimi Mungee on September
whatever and beating him. Well, then who was he fighting?

(16:26):
And then he's thirty four going on thirty five.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, I don't think it's gonna Benavidez, that's for sure.
I think that ship has probably sailed. Look, when I
was asking people about the three fight deal when it
was announced, and you probably heard some of the same things.
You know, I heard Jamal most likely opponent for September.
Right when the deal was announced. I heard that David

(16:51):
Benavitez was the most likely opponent for the third fight
of the deal, but back end September of twenty twenty four,
and that they were still trying to figure out who
would land in the middle. There was some ambiguity there
about who would land in the middle. And now obviously
that you know plan was blown up when Jamal had
to back out and it was Jamel in the fight
was just dreadful, making Jamal just a completely unsellable opponent

(17:14):
for him in May of this year. But they seem
to think, you know, within the PBC universe, that Canela
was gonna fight Benavidez, And I'm not just exactly sure
what's changed since then. I'm not sure if if look
I'm not never gonna say Canelo was afraid of anybody's
I don't believe he's afraid of anyone, But you know,
Canello was also at the point in his career where

(17:34):
he doesn't really have anything left to prove. Like, I'm
not of the opinion Keith that his legacy is going
to be forever tarnished if he doesn't fight David Benavitez.
I think he's accomplished enough up until this point. And
let's be real here, what Canelo was doing right now,
at least what we think he's doing, where he's kind of,
you know, hand picking who he's gonna fight in the
final chapter of his career. It is a tried and

(17:57):
true method by a lot of fighters, including Floyd Mayweather,
who did this in the twilight of his career. So
I don't think his legacy is going to be tarnished,
But I don't really understand the narrative that's coming from
some people on the Canalo side, where it's like, we'd
take the fight, nobody's offered us the fight, Like it's
just it's a little bit crazy to be reading that

(18:19):
he's not been offered a fight with David Benavidez and
then check out your phone and see it coming from
someone with the last name Lukawitz, people in that family
saying that he's he is getting offered this much money,
he doesn't want to fight our guy. Is such a
disconnect between the two different stories that it's all really
hard to figure out.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
It is, Chris, And like you said, I had heard
a lot of the same things that the Benavidez fight
was going to be the third fight of this deal
with PBC. They clearly didn't have it in writing, or
we wouldn't be in this position. So I'm sure it
was discussed as part of that three fight agreement. But
like we know, and whether it's in the media business
or the boxing business, if you don't have it in writing,

(18:59):
well good luck. So I'm not saying Canelo's afraid of
anyone either, And if he doesn't fight David Benavidez, he's
still gonna, you know, be a first ballot Hall of Famer.
He's accomplished entirely too much, and he's taken a lot
of challenges. You know, there was a time for quite
some time, christ when people said he's afraid to fight
glove can How long did that go on? And then

(19:21):
you know he fights them and everyone thinks Glove could
won the first fight. He still fought him three times.
You know, the third fight was way past its expiration date,
of course, but he fought him three times. And he's
taken on a lot of challenges and you know, put
himself at a disadvantage against Floyd Mayweather with a catchway
and all that when he was very young. I mean,
he's always accepted the challenges and everything. But from a

(19:42):
business standpoint, if you're disown and Matchroom, or if you're
PBC and Amazon, doesn't his asking price have to come
down at some point if you're not going to do
the kind of business that makes any sense to pay him.
Let's just say thirty five million, forty million, forty five million.
You can't fight Edgar Berlanga and expect to be paid

(20:03):
the same amount of money that you would be paid
or comparable money that you would be paid to fight
Terence Crawford or David Benavitez. It's just not it doesn't
make sense for the people who are shelling out the guarantees. So, yeah,
how do you look at that?

Speaker 2 (20:18):
So let's start with Berlanga Berlanga. Canelo is a tough
sell right now. No question Berlanga did what he needed
to do against McCrory. He knew he needed a big,
highlight reel knockout and he got it. It wasn't exactly

(20:39):
what everyone was looking for. There was some sluggishness to
the beginning of that fight against McCrory, but sixth round
lands a big right hand, referee waves it off. That
was what Edgar Berlanga was looking for and what he needed.
I still don't think that the public at large, and
this isn't exactly a hot take, but the public at

(21:01):
large does not view Edgar Berlanga as competitive against Canelo Alvarez. Yes,
he's unbeaten, he is highly rated. Technically, he is the
WBA mandatory for Canelo alvarez one hundred and sixty eight
pound title, but he has not faced anyone even close
to the level of Canelo Alvarez. McCrory was rated in

(21:24):
the top three by the WBA, but nobody that watches
boxing would have made Patrick McGrory a top three one
hundred and sixty eight pounder. So the hard part about
making Canela Mungie or Canelo Berlanga I should say in
May is getting people to believe that this can be competitive.

(21:45):
It's getting people to believe that the power of Berlanga
is real and that he's ready for this type of opportunity.
He'll sell it, no question, he will sell it. And
the rivalry between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans there's a natural,
you know, fire to that, natural sizzle to that. But
Canelo is an elite pound for pound guy. Edgar Berlanga

(22:10):
is not, and really hasn't shown at this point that
he has the talent to ultimately get there. So that
is definitely a tough sell. I don't think Mungia is
a tough sell at all. I think Mungia is a
pretty easy sell. Is he the Benavetez fight?

Speaker 4 (22:30):
No.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
But if you are making a list of potential opponents
for Canelo Alvarez, I would probably put Jimamongia second on
that list. He is a former world champion at fifty four.
He has been really good at three weight classes, and
he's coming off a dominant knockout victory over an opponent

(22:52):
in John Ryder who went the distance with Canelo, so
he's got some momentum going. It's that fight Mungia has
also been really active over the last few years. Say
what you want about his opponents, and criticism of many
of them is certainly warranted. But Mongia has been out there,
he has been visible. People have seen him score big victories.

(23:16):
He's coming off a Fight of the Year performance against
Sergei der Vinchenko this past year. There's some momentum behind
Haimi Mungea right now, and I think that fight could
be a pretty fun fight between those two guys in
the ring. I think that fight is a firefight for
as long as it potentially lasts. So Berlanga tough cell,

(23:40):
Mungia fairly easy cell, at least for May. So what
do you make of this Canelo plan for twenty twenty four?

Speaker 4 (23:50):
The Mangia fight is certainly marketable, Chris. I mean, it's
a palatable option for the paying public because Mongia, you
know the storylines. You were there. Yeah, Yeah, out John Ryder,
which Canelo couldn't do. He's undefeated. Yeah, he clearly has
a lot of flaws and would be a big underdog
against Canelo. But like you said, he's a people's champion,

(24:11):
so to speak, in Mexico, and he's from Tijuana and
he you know, he comes mud and all that kind
of all that stuff makes sense, and it's a marketable fight,
especially especially if it's on Sinko Demyo weekend or Mexican
Independence Day weekend. A sellable fight for sure. So if
he winds up fighting him on May fourth and then
weighs his options, I don't know, maybe he I'm sure
his own is gonna want more of a commitment than

(24:32):
one fight from him. It's his own matchroom wherever he's
working with, they'll want more than a one fight commitment
from him. But he could kind of just go back
and forth if he wants, and see how much money
he can get out of whomever and fight, you know, whatever,
whichever fights makes sense for him. So if it's Mungia
and May, I wouldn't say that the public at large

(24:54):
would love it, but it's somewhat acceptable, right, I Mean,
it's an undefeated guy, he's a exicon, it's on Synco
Demayo weekend, he knocked out John et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. That that's somewhat makes sense. But then the
Berlanga fight is going to be a tough sell and
I don't have anything against Edgar Berlanga. You know, he's
a very tough kid and he looked you know, he

(25:14):
fought well after a slow start on Saturday and came
back and everything. What would Canelo be favored over Edgar
Berlanga going into their fight?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
It would be pretty big. It will be double digits.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah, I mean, and rightfully so it's a it's a
hard fight to sell. He is undefeated and he's a big,
strong kid and everything. But I don't think many people
would tell you with a straight face that he has
a real chance to beat Banelo.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Now the and look, I don't you know, Canelo would
be a big favoritegainst himy m Moghia as well. But
you can kind of see how a Mungia fight would
be more competitive because Mgea does throw a lot of punches,
and in the past that's been something that's been effective
against Canelo. If you're going to engage throw a lot
of punches. Canello is no longer the combination puncher he
once was. He kind of loads up more looks for

(26:00):
that one big counter shot that Mungia I think would
be a more competitive fight as long as it lasted.
I think eventually Canelo would get to him, but it
would be a fun fight and a competitive fight for
I think a little while I just don't. I think
Edgar Blanca can get there, maybe to the point where
he's he's worthy of that opportunity. It's just right now,

(26:23):
you know, even though he's undefeated, even though he's coming
off a knockout win, it's just going to be hard
to sell that Berlanga can hang in there with Canelo.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
And Chris as you well know, you've discussed it many times.
You you know know how this all win. Berlanga and
Mungea were supposed to fight each other to quote Uncho, yeah,
earn the right to fight Canelo. Now if Berlango would
have fought Mangia and beat mungee you say, okay, well
you know why not Berlango right, And in fairness to
both of them, they are going to come to fight.

(26:53):
So whether he fights monkey Langa in May fourth, while
I don't think Berlanga has much of a chance to win,
he is going to come fight at least, whereas I
don't know what Jermeal Charlo is doing back in September,
but he didn't really come to win the fight. So
or whatever that's worth. I don't think it's worth eighty
five dollars per se, but it's you know, he will
come to he'll try to win.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, And that's something Eddie hern has talked about in
his conversations with Canelo. He says the Canelo has told
him he wants to face guys that come to fight.
I'm sure that Jamel Charlo fight was a little frustrating
for him because I think a lot of people coming
into that fight thought Damel would go at him, but
Dammel would at least try to go out and shield

(27:36):
instead of just circling and boxing and trying to survive
on the way to a wide decision loss. You're right,
Berlangan mcgea would certainly come to fight. How do you
think this impacts PBC? Like they signed that Amazon deal
and there was a big announcement. There was talk of
twelve to fourteen events per year, a lot of pay

(27:59):
per views. It made some sense when you had Terrence
Crawford under contract for potentially a rematch with Ero Spence,
maybe there could have been a fight with Canelo down
the line. You had Canelo under contract for two fights Benavidez,
you had some options there when it came to pay
per views. Now, as we look at the PBC landscape,

(28:20):
you've got a pay per view coming up on March thirtieth,
You've got Tank Davis set to fight Frank Martin. Presumably
that's an Amazon pay per view. Where does this leave them?
Now that Canelo is out the door at least for now,
and it sure seems like Terrence Crawford is out the
door at least for now.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
I'm not sure about Crawford. Chris so I'd like to
say he had there's at least a chance that he
would fight on the PBC platform. And if he does,
of course it's going to be on pay per view.
Who would he fight? Well, who knows at this point,
I guess, And he's not going to wait around for
the winner of Tim Zoo and Keith Thurman, because we're
already going on what is it, eight months, nine months

(28:58):
since he fought. That's eight yeah, seven months, whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
I mean, we'll be we'll be past the year by
the time he gets We'll be closing in or past
the year by the time he gets back in the ring.
He fought in July of twenty twenty three. We're gonna
be right there by the time, you know, we see
Terrence Crawford fight once again.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
And that's unfortunate, Chris, because I mean, he he should
have been. It's not Terrence Crawford's fault that whatever happened
with Spence's eye and everything, he should have been able
to build on this momentum, this career defining performance and everything.
Because he's since turned thirty six years old. You would
have liked to have seen him have fought by now,
or have a fight scheduled by now at the very least.

(29:33):
So that's a shame from Crawford's perspective. But but you're
right though, in that how many pay per views fighters
do they have? Are they gonna? Are they gonna start
building pay per view stacking pay per view shows the
way that they did this this card here, because ideally
this would be on Amazon Prime, right, yeah, ideally, but

(29:55):
at least the the co feature, the Coe feature, some
people are looking at as the most interesting fight on
the car. I don't know necessarily. Keith Thurman never fights,
of course, I mean he's he's fought one time since
he fought Manny Packet almost five years ago, so or twice.
I guess, but it should he be an eleven to

(30:18):
one underdog against tim Zoo.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
I don't know yet. Yes, yes, I think it should
even be higher. Honestly, I think I said this to
you at one point after this was announced. I don't
see any pathway to victory for Keith Thurman zero none.
I think he's gonna be on his bike for most
of this fight. I think Tim Zuo has dramatically improved
over the last couple of years. He is a much

(30:42):
better fighter. He is a natural one hundred and fifty
four pounder. Keith Thurman, addition to being inactive, has dealt
with hand injuries. He has that a knockout quite sometime.
I don't see how he's gonna hurt Timsu. I don't
see how he's gonna out box tim Zuo. I think
he's gonna be backfoot the entire time, trying to move away,
and I don't see any scenario where he's able to
pick up a decision fighting that way. So yeah, I

(31:05):
mean you asked like he's gonna be eleven to one. Yes,
I think absolutely he should be eleven to one.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
Hot take for Mannix, I did what.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
You what's his? But you tell me, then what is
Keith Thurman's path to victory?

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Here?

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Are you seeing something less than I am in Timsu?
Because ever since the Tony Harrison fight, I have seen
growth in Tim Zu. He is becoming a better fighter
every single time. And as inactive as Keith Thurman has been,
Timsu has been active. Timsu has not been waiting around
for his opportunities. He has been getting in the ring.
He has been fighting, and he has been beating quality

(31:38):
guys like the win over Mendoza. Look, Mendoz, you can
say got lucky one shot against Vendora, still landed that
punch and tim Zu put a hllacious beating on him.
Didn't pick up a knockout in that fight, but put
a beat down on Mendoz. That was more about Mendoza's
chin than it was. But any issues with Timsu's power,
I think Tim Zu is starting to really become a

(31:59):
top fighter in the weight class.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Chris, he had a great year last year, no two
ways about it. That Tony Harrison win was very convincing.
That was his first win of the year. I'm not
gonna give him too much credit for what he did
with Carlos a Campo exactly but correct.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
He stayed busy though, you know, like get out, keep
getting out like June.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
I'll give him credit for that. And he fought up
three times last year, which no one does basically at
his level at this point. So this isn't really this
isn't a criticism of Tim Zoo. I just thought eleven
to one, it's like Keith Thurman, while he's been inactive,
and he's mostly been a welterweight or exclusively has been
a welterweight since he was a fifty two pounder as
an amateur, he's not a bump. I mean, eleven to

(32:37):
one is like he has zero chance whatsoever to win,
which you seem to think that he doesn't, which I
understand I do.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
And look, Keith, you know, I know people say, you know,
they always try to like double back, but I would say,
I love Keith Thurman, like I've been down to that
Saint Petersburg Gym, I've hung out with him, his staff.
He's got a great backstory, and for a while I
thought he had a chance to really do something special
in his career. After the wins over Danny Garcia, the
win over Sean porter H he had a moment and

(33:05):
he was doing those fights on I think that both
of them on CBS right like he was doing he was,
you know, putting himself out there in front of a
big audience. And then the inactivity came about. The injuries
robbously a problem. But Keith, you know this, Thurman also
lost a little bit of his fire. He didn't have
the same passion anymore over the last few years they
did when he was coming up. I think Timzu has
that passion. I think Tim Zu is like what Keith

(33:28):
Thurman was before the first fight he had with for
the fights he had with Garcia and with Sean Porter.
I think that's what Keith Thurman is running into. And
he's running into a bigger version of himself back then.

Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah, and he's six years younger, and like you said,
he's a natural junior middleweight. The bigger guy, you know,
Keith Thurman is. I think it is actually one time
since he fought Pakia. I believe that his only fighters against.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Mario Barrios for Barrios, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
And I think I'm remembering because he fought Josa Lopez
in the fight before Pakiao, So he only fought one
time in almost five years. So yeah, I get it, Chris,
But but be that as it may what I was
starting to say, because we kind of went off.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Traction, it became a Thurman Zoo preview.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
Right now, if they're going to stack pay per views
in the way that they did with this March thirtieth card,
because the Fundoro fight is a very interesting fight too,
That's going to be an all action fight. You know,
I don't know, I don't know so much about the
Lara Zarafa fight. But but there are you know, four
fights on the pay per view. There's two interesting fights
on the the Elijah anytime Elijah Garcia fights, I want

(34:33):
to see it based on want to Go last year,
absolutely know. And Kiron Davis is going to come to fight.
He's fighting at middleweight in a way class that he
belongs unlike when he thought David benavidez. Uh So you
have a couple of fights on Amazon Prime and then
you go to the four fight pay per view. Again,
ideally it would be on Prime, you know, it would
be on Prime Video, but uh, these fights are expensive

(34:54):
and sometimes the business model doesn't work that way. So
it's on pay per view and people were free to
either buy or ignore it or whatever they want. But
the question you ask is what are they going to
do with their pay per views? Being that Gervonte Davis
is the only real proven guy unless Crawford is in
the mix, because Crawford could headline of pay per view

(35:15):
as well. But let's just hope for the sake of
boxing fans that there are less pay per views, maybe
that you know, maybe there's one well.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
That come that brings us back Keith to what Amazon wants,
right like, and what you hear from you know, frank
even people that don't necessarily know, is that Amazon is
looking to be more distributed. They are being they are
a provider, right like in years past, PBC has had
Al Hayman, has had HBO backing him, Showtime backing him.

(35:48):
I don't think, at least that's not the sense I'm
getting that Amazon is backing PBC in the exact same way.
So if you do not have that ah well of
license fee money to go to and your bank rolling
yourself effectively, it's challenging. It's challenging to put on these

(36:09):
non pay per view fights the interest people. I mean,
it was challenging enough quite frankly last year with Showtime
like their pay per views were excellent last year, great
year for Showtime on pay per view. The championship boxing
shows they were nothing. They were nothing. They didn't get
much of anything at all from that. So I guess
it depends on what kind of investment PBC is going
to get from Amazon this year, Because if it's just

(36:31):
a distributor model where they're going to do rev share
and they're gonna be a partner in that effect, I
think it's gonna be incredibly difficult to put on non
pay per view fights good ones. If there's some money
behind it, well that's a different story. Amazon is one
of the richest companies on the planet and they have
one of the widest distributions on the planet. If they
get behind something, they can blow it up. I just

(36:52):
don't know what Amazon is looking to do with a
sport like.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
This, right and there's some trial on ever on Amazon's
art here. They want to see how it goes. There's
certainly less money available to the PBC through their partnership
with Amazon than there was with Showtime, we know that
for sure and previously with HBO. But they'll just have
to make it work. I mean, fighters are going to
have to lower their ex financial expectations and such, and
hopefully we'll get some good fights on Prime as well,

(37:19):
because you know, they can't push every fight to pay
per view because people are just not going to pay
for that many payper new fights. But so it's going
to be interesting to see how this first year of
the deal goes. And like I said, Chris, if it
means that there are less pay per views, well who
would create that? You know, that goes for everybody that
goes for Dezone, Amazon, ESPN. All the less pay per views,

(37:43):
the better, the better it is for the fans obviously,
but you know, some fights have to go to that
platform because they're just too expensive. And there are only
so many fights that are going to go to Saudi
Arabia because sooner or later that money is going to
dry up because it's just it's just not sustainable in
the long term to just overpay for all these fights
to bring them there to promote, you know, tourism in

(38:07):
Saudi Arabia. It's great while it's lasting now and everything,
and I'm not saying there won't be some fights in
Saudi Arabia. They're not going to grossly overpay for every
fight from now until the end of time, and this
is going to end at some point.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
So no on the Saudis want to be. The Saudis
want to be in the big fight business, right and
there's only so many of them, and the number of
big fights they can get up for and invest in
are many of them are probably going to be done
in the first half of the first three quarters of
this year. You've got the Bevil Better Be fight, presumably
happening in June. Let's hypothetically say they can make a

(38:42):
Fury Anthony Joshua fight in August or September. After that,
what is there like rematch with Fury and Joshua if
it's good. Did they want to get into the Canelo
business at some point? I don't know. But to your point,
I don't see Saudi Arabia putting on, you know, featherweight
title fights. I don't think that they're gonna be you know,
leaning in to showtime or HBO level fights.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
You know, Chris, because even if in effect you print money,
which they seemingly do over there with the oil money
and everything, You're gonna want some return on your investment.
At some point. You're not just going to keep throwing
money all over the place at whatever. I mean, what
are we gonna have Canelo against Christian and Biley and
Riod Well like at some.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Point thinking more, I'm thinking more of Canelo, William Skull
and Keith. I'm thinking that's that's the match the IBF.
The IBF is gonna call a mandatory. The IBF is
once they're done with this Philiparkovit stuff and the heavyweight scene,
they're gonna call that mandatory. Baby. And William Skull, who
is the most deserving mandatory challenger I've ever seen, ever seen.

(39:43):
He's gonna get that opportunity. Not since Ovne Yildram have
I seen a challenger more worthy.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
Then here's what was this guy's name, that hop maraud Hakar,
that Hopkins fought in Philadelphia at that time. This is
on the this is on the level of that. That
guy literally me up. I was there that night in
Philadelphia when the Hopkins you know, it's his hometown and
all that kind of stuff, And he was already Hopkins
almost forty years old then, and I was there that night.
That dude he was from France. He literally ran around

(40:12):
that he was running around the ring like it was
a track meet, like not Jamel Charlow type running not
that not whatever. People Remaine Ortiz, did you know which
was more boxing than running? I thought? But he was
literally running. He was running away from Hopkins. It was crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I love it. I love it. I could you know
we joke, but if Saudi Arabia wanted to put on
a Canelo fight, which I think they do, I could
see them putting on that williams Skull fight, I really could,
you know, as part of a bigger like day of
reckoning too. Let's call it like if they did the
same thing in late December of twenty twenty four, I

(40:54):
could see Canelo being on that card and making a
lot of money to have a very light touch of
a title defense.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
If Canelo fights William Skull on any anywhere on Earth,
whether it's Saudi Arabia or Las Vegas or wherever. I
don't know that I'll be able to come on the
podcast because my head. So let's hope we don't get
it to that point.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Keith, you are very anti What is he? He's Cuban, right,
Cuban turned German? Is that what he like? I think
he's whatever.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
Whatever his ethnicity, it has nothing to do with ethnicity,
his lack of qualifications to be in the ring with
Canelo Algarez.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
So that's not hey, that is not what the IBF says.
They say he's the number one contender. Come on, respect us, actually, bodies,
I do respect them. They know what they're talking about.
William Skull deserves that mandatory shot. All right, Last thing
I want to talk about, Uh, we have the Devin
Haney Ryan Garcia at press conference in New York this

(41:56):
past week. I love this fight because I love that
two guys in their mid twenties are facing off. And
both these guys probably could have gone different directions, the
most notably Ryan Garcia. And let's be real, Ryan did
try to go a different direction. He tried to make
the Roller Romero fight happen. That didn't happen. But I
give Ryan a lot of credit for pivoting to doing
a fight against Devin Haney, which is an incredibly difficult

(42:16):
fight because for a couple of reasons. One, Devin is
peaking right now. Devon to me is a top five
pound for pound guy. At worst, he's a top ten
pound for pound guy. He has had a terrific multi
year run. Last year the winner ver A Loma Chenko.
People can say lost whatever it was competitive. Sometimes competitive
fights are really close. They can go one way or
the other. I had no issue whatsoever with Hani getting

(42:38):
the decision in that fight. Then he goes and his
first fight at one forty and wipes out Regisprogray, complete shutout,
wins every round, gets a knock down the third round.
Brilliant in that fight. So Devin Haney is at his
best right now. My question going into this fight is
where is Ryan Garcia? Because yes, he did rebound from
the Geronte Davis loss with a knockout in over Oscar Duarte,

(43:01):
but that was not some kind of flawless performance. There
were issues with Ryan in that fight when it came
to whatever shoulder roll defense he was utilizing. At some
point during that fight. He was getting hit a little
bit in that fight. Eventually his power took over, got
the knockout. That's all that matter. But you can't say,

(43:21):
no one can say that Ryan Garcia is peaking as
a fighter right now. He is still a work in
progress with Derek James. And when you're going into a
fight against someone like Devin Haney, you gotta be sharp, man,
you gotta be on your game and on point, and
my concern is that Ryan Garcia is not there, still's
got the power, can still hurt Devin Hanying. I think

(43:42):
their amateurs experience, the six fights, the times they fought
in the amateurs as recently, I think as when they're
sixteen years old. I think that will give Ryan some
sense of what he's in for in these fights. But
I just think Devin is a well oiled machine right now,
and I'm not so sure what Ryan garcie. So how
do you see this fight? Early on?

Speaker 4 (44:04):
You know, well, Devin Haney seems to think that Ryan Garcia,
at twenty five years old, is cashing out by taking
this fight, because you know, he didn't really seem it
seemed like he was gonna fight Roly Romero and then
presumably win the WBA title and make it a unification fight.
So hany thinks seems to think that Ryan Garcia doesn't
really want this fight. He was kind of forced into

(44:25):
it because whatever happened happened with the Romero negotiations, and
now he's left to fight someone else.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
So well, I would say, Keith like he look, Ryan
immediately called for this fight after Haini beat Progray like
the Romero stuff was, you know, came on a little
bit later on. As Devin likes to say, you go
on a job with Floyd and you are suddenly challenging
Roller Romero for his title.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
Haney makes a good point there, right, I mean, he
said to him, maybe you'll go on another He actually
said during the pressge. You know, obviously you moderated it.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
He said it a few times. He said it a
few times on.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Another job with Floyd. You might pull out of the fight,
you know.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
He said it on ESPN, he said it during our
face off. He said that a lot. He said, I
heard jogwin Floyd enough to last me.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
And Ryan Garcia said, well, that was actually a good one.
So yeah, he gets it, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah, But I.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
Do think Ryan Garcia, however, they got to this point,
deserves credit as well, because Haney, he deserves more credit
than anyone in boxing at this point. The way that
he's going about his career, taking tough fights, going from
promoter and platform to promoter and platform to get the
fights that he wants for the most money possible, but
taking tough, tough fights. He deserves a.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
He's a model for young fighters.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
Yeah, and really unprecedented that fighters are willing to operate
this way the way him and his dad have gone
about it. But Ryan Garcia deserves some credit too here, Chris.
I mean, within a little less than a calendar year,
he'll have fought Gervonte Davis and Devin Haney. I mean,
the kid deserves a lot of credit for that, you know.
I mean, however, people thought he went out against Jervonte Davis,

(45:55):
Devin Haney keeps calling him Twitter, got fought with the
body shot, seems to have I'm not using anything for him,
but he seems to come and have come into the
ring compromise with the rib b ingery. Germonte Davis knew that,
I think, and exploited it. So he looked decent against Duarte.
The shoulder roll thing was sort of perplexing, and you know,
we've had some theories as to why he was doing that,

(46:17):
you know, but he got to win. He got a
knockout win, and now he goes and takes another tough fight.
So within the course of twelve months, he will have
fought three times against two guys who are on most
people's pound for pound lists. So what more do you
want from the kid than that now, if he happens
to lose to Devin Hainey, I'm sure you know the
underdog going into the fight. If he loses these two fights,

(46:38):
you know, that's a tough stretch. But he fought the
fights that he always said that he wanted. He's not
one of these guys, whatever people think about Ryan Garcia,
because he's a polarizing kid, lives his life on social media,
tends to say some goofy things sometimes, but the kid
delivered on what he said he wanted. He said he
wanted to fight Gervonte Davis and he fought him. However,

(46:59):
the fight went and he said he wanted to fight
Devin Haney. He's now fighting him. So he deserves a
lot of credit as well.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
And look, we don't need to go back in time,
but that Gavonta Davis fight doesn't happen unless Ryan Garcia
makes it happen. Ryan Garcia agreed to the catchway, Ryan
Garcia agreed to the financial terms. Ryan Garcia agreed to
pretty much everything. Some of it his promoter pushed back
against pretty hard, but he agreed to pretty much everything
to make that fight happen. And I think he deserves
a lot of credit for that. I do think he

(47:26):
has a chance.

Speaker 4 (47:27):
He also made thirty million dollars, so let's not forget that.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
That's true. Nice, nice bankroll for that. And look, he's
gonna make a lot of money for this fight as well.
Not thirty million dollars, but it's a pay per view
if it pops, he's going to make a boatload of
cash for this as well. And to me, Keith, even
if he loses, he's like one or two fights away
from me right back on top. Like Ryan Garcia has
a fan base, Ryan Garcia has a fan friendly style.

(47:51):
Ryan Garcia. You know, even if it goes the way
some people are already predicting, which is a wide decision
win for Devin Haney, I don't think that that's the
end of Ryan Garcia. In fact, I think he's still
way ahead of most of these guys who are not
taking these big fights. I I I like his his mindset,

(48:12):
you know, in making these fights happen. I think he's
backed up against the eight ball, backed up on the
corner rather against Devin Haney. And I think he's gonna
have a tough time with Devin Haney's skill set. But
even if it doesn't go his way. I think there's
a pathway for him to rebuild and get back into
the top of the boxing game.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Yeah, because Christy, he's only twenty five years old. Now,
if he gets violently knocked out by Devin Haney, which
is probably an unlikely outcome.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, Bill Haney's promising first round knockout, Keith, I mean
I'm ready for Ryan said he retire. Ryan said he
retire if it's.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Retire if he got knocked out in the first round.
So but but if he you know, let's say he
loses a unanimous decision one sixteen, one to twelve across
the board or something like that, Yeah, his career is
not over. He will have lost two fights that he wanted.
But you know, he's a very popular guy. I mean,
he has a fan base outside of the typical boxing fan,
which not many fighters do, so he'll be able to

(49:09):
cash in on that as long as his performance. You know,
if he loses one twenty to one oh eight and
gets embarrassed, well that that wouldn't be good for business obviously.
But short of that, I think, yeah, he could rebuild himself,
and again, he won't be twenty six years old I
think until the summer. So this is a young guy
man still in his physical prime, and and he can punch.

(49:30):
You know, I favored Devin Haney. I expect Devin Haney
to win the fight. But it's not like Ryan Garcia
doesn't have any chance whatsoever. He's got very fast hands.
He's not nearly as disciplined or as cerebral as Devin Haney,
and not as proven because look who Hane's beaten and
how he's beaten them. You know, the Lomachenko fight could
have gone the other way, I think. But what he's
accepted every challenge imaginable and the way he beat Regis Program,

(49:53):
it was a fighter I have a lot of respect
for too, Chris. You know, Regis Program is a dog man,
and he went in there and he didn't beat Regi's Program.
He embarrassed him and I didn't see that coming. Yeah,
could I have seen him out boxing him and winning
a decision short, but not like that. I mean, he
knocked Regis Program. He knocked the puncher down. He took

(50:14):
the fight to the puncher. He was the bigger, stronger
guy in the ring, and that performance was was career
changing for him. In many ways, reputation changing for him,
and he's one of the best young fighters in the sport,
you know, arguably a top five pound for pound guy
now and kudos to him again. I can't say it enough, Chris.

(50:35):
I mean, you know, the way him and his father
have gone about this the last couple of years is
nothing short of remarkable and really a blueprint that other
fighters should follow.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Yeah. Look, he's not waiting for that one big payday.
He's not biding his time waiting for something big to pop.
He is staying busy. He's taking tough challenges. He's not
running away from challenges. When he had the option to
fight George camp Boss but he had to go to Australia.
He went twice, got a lot of money for that,

(51:06):
don't get me wrong. First title defense against Lomachenko, steps
up fights Regis Prograe. If he beats Ryan Garcia on
April twentieth, it wouldn't surprise me to see him in
with someone like super Alebatias before the end of the year.
Maybe they can do a fight with the winner of
Roly Romeiro Versisa Cruz, depending on what happens on the
PBC side of the street. He's gonna keep fighting. He's
probably gonna keep winning, he's gonna make a lot of money,

(51:28):
and he's going to build a Hall of fame resume.
He's he's on the path, key like He's right there,
like with with all these early fights before he turns
twenty six years old, he is right there on that
path to being a great in the sport. And I
give him a lot of credit for doing that as well.
He and his father of you know, Bill is his trainer,
and he's an excellent trainer. But he won Manager of

(51:49):
the Year from the Boxing Riders this year, and I
think he deserved that because of the job he's done,
you know, guiding his son's career. Keith, good stuff. Man.
Always appreciate it and make sure we do this again
real soon.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
Thanks for the time, Chris, appreciate it, man, and when.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
We come back my conversation with ray Ford.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
All right.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Raymond Ford is an undefeated one hundred and twenty six
pound contender. On Saturday, he will fight for his first
world title. He takes on Autoback Klamatov for the vacant
one hundred and twenty six pound belt in Verona, New York.
The Spiker Watch live on ESPN and Ray I was
around your promoter Eddie Hearn last week. He's very excited

(52:34):
for you for this fighting part because you could become
the first fighter that Matt Troom has taken from its
pro debut to a world title. I know that means
something to them. Does that? Does that mean anything to you?

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, it definitely mean a lot to me, being though,
that one of the first ones that he signed over
here in the US. And I know a lot of
guys been you know, dropped or you know, they took
losses and you know he fell off. But you know,
being one of the ones that's still here, is still
going and fighting for my first word title, it definitely
means a lot to you know.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
You've been campaigning at one twenty six for a number
of years now. When when Lee would beat Josh Warrington
last year, did you think that you were never gonna
get a chance to fight for a belt of this
weight class?

Speaker 1 (53:18):
No, I didn't think it was going I knew what
was going on behind closed doors. I knew my shot
was coming. I just had to you know, wait and
wait until you know these other little fights was going
going through.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
So yeah, so you knew back then that Lee was
likely to vacate that belt and move up exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
I knew, I knew. I knew everything. Like I said,
like everything behind cluded theirs. I was being too for
my team. You know, certain fighters were scared of certain fighters.
I'm not gonna say who was scared of who, but
certain fighters were scared, and uh, certain people didn't want
to fight certain people. So I knew my time's coming.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Well, give me a little taste of who didn't want
to fight who? Ray who? Who didn't want any part
of you going into that fight?

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Nah, it wasn't I don't think it was really me.
I think it was the guy that I'm fighting that
people were scared of. So it took somebody feel like
me with the skill set that I have been, with
the confidence that I have to you know, and especially
you know, fighting this long waiting for my rod of
the shop, I definitely wasn't going to pass up on it.
And uh yeah, so I can't really speaking for anybody.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
So you've seen Colmatov fight. You've watched I'm sure some
of his fights, you know, twelve wins, eleven knockouts, he's
got that glossy resume. What do you think of him.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
I think he's a okay fighter, he's solid. I think
his resume isn't that good, but he's hyped up to
be this you know, this uh surrogate COVID monster. So yeah, yeah,
that's all I really think of him.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Do you think he has those qualities or do you
think he's been untested at the level you rat?

Speaker 1 (55:03):
To be honest, I really don't even like, really remember
how cool of a fight heat attention to him, But
as far as his I don't think he's I don't
think he's really tested for.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
So. I've been able to watch a lot of your fights,
most of your fights up to this point, call many
of your fights in your career, and I want to
go back to twenty twenty two when you beat Edward
Vasquez in Phoenix. That was a more competitive, I think
then expected fight. I think a lot of people thought
Vasquez deserved more credit on the scorecards. You responded to

(55:42):
that fight with three straight wins, and they were all
emphatic wins. You had one knockout, you had two wide decisions.
As your level of competition went up, you got a
lot better. What did something change for you after that
Vasquez fight? Given how close it was and and maybe
how how the outcome played out.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, my mentality changed, and I changed a lot of
things in my camp. So I started, you know, to
go away from home, get away from distractions, and do
my camps away from home and really lock in and
do everything I'm supposed to do in camp. So that
that's what really changed.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Was it a wake up call of sorts for you?

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Yeah, it definitely was a wake up call for me.
I think I was probably you know, feeling like guys
at that level, I probably didn't take them as serious
as I should have been being as though, like I
don't know, sometimes you can get a little a little
biggited when you were young and you being talked good
about and everything like that. So I kind of wasn't

(56:45):
like really taking my opponents series at that time, said
how have.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
You felt about the way it's gone since then? I mean,
you go to New York, you get a dominant win,
you get a knockout in your next fight, the next
time you're fighting Magdaleno, most accomplished guy to that point,
you got these fights haven't really been close, you know
over the last three fights, Like how much different have
you felt? And in what ways have you felt.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Different physically and mentally. I've been feeling different. As I said,
I leave from camp. I'm going into these fights with
a clear head. I'm in the best shape is as
I can be in. I'm putting the right food in
my body. I'm making wheat the proper way. Now, it's
a lot of different things that it's a lot of

(57:27):
small things that I'm doing that that really count that
I really didn't take heed to like, you know, early
on in my career, I already you know, take it seriously.
So now that I know and I know my body
needs to be treated properly, everything that I'm doing now
is just I'm I can say, I'm a real professional athlete. Now.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
You know one of your training partners is Chakor Stevenson.
We've seen the videos on your YouTube, you know, leading
up to this fight of of you and chicor down there.
Tell me about that relationship. How did that relationship start?

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Or that's my brother, that's that's that's really like my
big brother for real. Since the Amateurs, I've been knowing
he's been giving me pointers and things like that. Since
I was on the like the USA team, people come
to the gym and watch me spar and stuff like that,
and then he'll he'll send me a tut after I
was spar Like, bro, I think you should start doing this,

(58:20):
start working on this. You're great at this, Start using
this more things like that. And I've just been locked
in with him every since. And I've been doing camps
with his cousin Array Stevenson. Uh, that's like my He
pretty much like a jack of all Tracy do everything
in camp and uh, you know, Court is right there

(58:41):
beside him, you know, watching me spar and still giving
me pointers and things like that. I can call your
Court and ask him anything. He'll always be there for me.
So that's like my big brother.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
How much sparring have you gotten in with him personally?
I can imagine if you did, those have got to
be pretty high level sparring matches.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, for sure, we definitely we got we got some
good rounds in this camp. I often got rounds in
with Quinn Moses, that's his other little cousin. He's real
sharp and helping me out this little camp. But over
the years of means, of course, Barn, I couldn't even
tell you how many rounds it's been.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
What's been his biggest piece of advice for you in
facing someone that's a puncher like your opponent.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Succored to me the depths on.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Is that a good idea?

Speaker 1 (59:28):
That's a great idea, and said, do you got I
think this is a three division RUSS champion, UH silver
silver medalists in the Olympics who has a real, very
high IQ. So anything that he say it is definitely
good advice.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
You know, when I was calling richardson Hitchin's fight against
Jose Zapada about three or four months ago down in Orlando,
I noticed one of the Hitchin's friends was on the
phone on the ring apron and he was definitely talking
to chakor Stevenson. So is chaque Stevenson going to be
advising you from the phone during this fight?

Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
Nah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
So be able to hear him from from ringside if
he needs to offer any advice up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
One of the last things I want to ask you is,
you know, I've known how tough it's been for you
to make one twenty six over the years. You're you're
a young guy, You're a growing guy. You're destined for
one thirty and above. Sooner rather than later. Do you
look at this fight as a one off, you know,
win the title and move up, or you know, are
you open to whatever comes in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
It could be it depends on not on an opportunity
that I get after this fight, whether if I get
a high pay fight or you know, a unification or both. Understand,
So everything depends. But if it's none of those options
doing on the table, I'm definitely moving up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
How has making the wait this time around been for you?

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
I feel like I get asked this question that every
time I fight, but make the weight is fun Like
I'll always say, it's always funny week.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Hey, in fairness, I run into your guys, you know,
in fight weeks all the time, and they're always like, man,
tough to make one twenty six? I see Brian Peters,
tough to make one twenty six? Might move up sooner?
So it's coming. I know it's hard. You're I mean,
you're a big guy and you're a young guy. You're
gonna eventually move up and wait?

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah, for sure? For sure?

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
All right, good luck on Saturday, man going for your
first world title. It's a very cool experience, and uh,
you hope for the best for you man, thanks for
your time, Thank you, appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Douf you soon.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith
Ideck and Ray Ford for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate,
review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts,
and I'll see you next week.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Dangers so much, I go sleep.