Boxing with Chris Mannix - Jake Paul’s Final Test

Chris is joined by Keith Idec of BoxingScene.com to talk about Mauricio Lara and if anyone at 126 can beat him, what should we expect from Matias-Ponce, and should the WBC rank Jake Paul if he beats Tommy Fury. #Volume #Herd

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
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promo code, boxing start making every moment more Welcome back
to another Boxing with Chris Mannox. As always, you can
listen to the show live on the AMP app. Just
follow Chris Mannix on AMP. This is Boxing with Chris
mann Oh, somebody punch him in the face. Anthy Joshua
is a composed and ferocious finisher. What's this? Posted by

(01:09):
sis Chris Mannix. That was my moments now with interviews,
analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing.
When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's
Chris Mannix all right. Keith Ideck is here, senior writer
Boxing Scene dot Com originally scheduled to be in Minnesota

(01:32):
for the Showtime televised card this weekend, but Keith not
dedicated enough to find alternate modes of transportation after his
flight had been canceled. Keith, I mean, I'm just saying,
like you could have drove like that, you know, Jersey
to Minnesota's what like half a day, you could have
you a day, you could pull it off like that.

(01:54):
That could show some dedication, doesn't cause my friend, I've
never been more pleased to get a a notification from
Delata that said the fight was canceled orious day. It's
like the low in Minneapolis tomorrow, I believe is with
the windshill factor is going to be minus eleven and

(02:14):
they're going to get somewhere between twelve and eighteen inches
of snow by the time this is all done. So
be very happy to cover the fights from the comforts
of home. You've been there a few times, I'm sure.
I think Minneapolis actually pretty good place to whole fights.
They do decent crowds, the venues Okay. I think you
just have to be wary of booking fights there in

(02:35):
January and February when it's sub zero every single day.
You have to almost expect stuff like this to happen. Yeah,
I've been there I think three times now, a relatively
short amount of time. But it's a nice city though,
if you're there at the right time. I was there
in June last year. I mean, the ballpark's awesome if
you're a baseball fan, and there's a lot of stuff
to do culturally downtown and everything. It's it's a good place.

(02:56):
But like you said, the weather is so brutal for
those three or four months of the year, but they're
used to it. You know, they have all those indoor walkways,
you don't have to go outside that kind of stuff.
But man, that would have been treacherous trying to go
from hotel to hotel with all this like frozen snow
on the ground and everything would have been terrible. So yeah,
but they do do to your point, Chris, they do

(03:17):
do well at the at the venue. I mean the
respond to boxing. Jamal James is fighting on Saturday night,
which is why they went there initially to begin with.
I think Jamal James fought at the Armory several times. Um,
you know, and the fans and they, you know, it's
set up where fans can kind of just stand in
the kind of alleyways along the sides. I've not describing

(03:38):
it accurately, but but it's an interesting place and fans.
It's just kind of a festive atmosphere and they do
pretty well. I mean, you know, it holds five six
thousand people or something like that, and they do pretty well. No,
I like it. I think PBC's onto something with bringing
fights there, just preferably in the months of spring and
summer and fall and not the dead of winter. We're

(03:59):
gonna talk about that car this weekend. We're also going
to talk about the Jake Paul Tommy Fury fight scheduled
for Sunday. A little bit of news or potential news
involving Kenadi Glovka. But Keith I first want to look
back at what we saw last weekend. In one hundred
and twenty six pound division, Mauricio Lara, who has become

(04:19):
something of a brit killer over in the UK, has
one win over Josh Warrington now has another win and
a title after beating Lee Wood this past weekend. I
thought Lee Wood Keith was doing great for the better
part of seven rounds. I thought he was winning the fight,
but Mauricio Lara just hits hard, and in that seventh

(04:42):
round he clipped Wood with a brutal left hook that
put Wood down and would out start here. What did
you think of the fight and the finish by Mauricio Lara. Yeah,
he's got that ultimate equalizer, Chris. As you said, that
counter left hook that he hit him with in the
exchange just abruptly ended the fight. You know, there were
people I know, of course on social media, everyone's got

(05:04):
an opinion, and I saw a lot of people saying
that Leewood should have been able to continue. I don't know.
I mean, he looked like, you know, he was pretty
out of it, and Lara only had He had less
than ten seconds to probably but that's enough time to
really unload some damaging punches, and I think he probably
would have finished him off because wouldn't didn't even know
where he was. I think Ben Davison made the right call,

(05:25):
particularly he's got a rematch clause, you know, lift to
fight another day. I mean, he was just caught with
a perfect shot. But Lee Wood, as you said, was
doing very well, Chris. He was ahead on all three scorecards,
and he had some trouble in the in the opening
two rounds and in the second round, you know, Lara
hit him with the right hand toward the end of
the round. That wobbled him a little bit. But that's
what happens when you're in there with a dangerous puncher.

(05:46):
And credit to Mauricio Lara. I mean, he doesn't care.
You know, you want me to go to Josh Warrington's hometown,
no problem, I'll go knock him out. You want me
to go to well, he knocked him out in London
and then fought him in his hometown after that. But
he go to his home country. You know, want me
to fight Lee Wood and Nottingham, no problem, I'll go
knock him out too, and the kids. You know, he's
a young guy's twenty four, I believe, and kudos to

(06:07):
him for just being willing to take those types of assignments.
He's getting paid very well, so he's not going to
make that kind of money staying in Mexico and fighting.
So there's that factor that makes it make a lot
of sense for him. But he's kind of found a
home away from home here because British boxing fans appreciate
guys who bring it like that. You know, I'm not

(06:27):
saying he's going to sell out Arenas by himself, but
they keep bringing him back there. People are gonna want
to see him, so he's created this kind of niche
market for himself where he can keep He's going to
go back there and fight lee at least Leewood. Maybe
he'll fight Warrington again and the winner will fight Leewood.
Based on what I saw in his first fight against Warrington,
I don't see Warrington being able to beat him. So

(06:49):
if they do fight for a third time, I would
expect him to move forward into the lee Wood rematch.
And the kid's gonna make a lot of money, so
good for him. Yeah. On the stoppage, like most people
in the moment, I was a little surprised there was
only ten seconds left. Lee Wood did make it to
his feet. I thought Davidson would give him more of
an opportunity, but Davison knows his fighter, and in the aftermath,

(07:12):
like you could see in the corner that lee Wood
wasn't right. He was doing what most fighters do protesting
saying I can go. I could go, but you could
see in his eyes he wasn't right right quite frankly,
Keith in the post fight interview several minutes later, he
still didn't look right. So even if he had made
it out of the final ten seconds of that round,
which is no guarantee the next round, I don't think

(07:36):
he would have been fully recovered, and that could have
led to something disastrous. You mentioned the rematch clause. It's
it was a live to fight another day moment, you know,
for Ben Davis and Lee Wood, and I do think
it was the right decision. I can see, you know,
a third fight with Warrington materializing. You know, that was

(07:57):
pretty gross that, you know, Laura spit at Warrington after
the fight. There's no need for that. There's enough animosity
between those two guys to have to not have that.
But if I'm Josh Warrington, I know he's mentally a
tough guy. That's not a fight I'd be running towards.
Man like Josh Warrington has looked a little chinny in

(08:18):
recent fights. He lost his last fight. You know, he
goes in against Burcio Lara. I think something worse happens
to him than happened to him the first time that
those two guys fall, when he took just a brutal
beating that might have changed the course of his career.
There's money in it, there's a title in it. But
if I'm Josh Warrington, I might think twice about about

(08:39):
doing that with Leewood because I think that would be
the end of Josh Warrington. Keith, I don't. I don't
think he comes back from a third fight against Lee
against Mauricio Lara. That very well could be true, Chris,
but I'm sure he's looking at it like, well, it's
another he just lost another title fight to Louis Lopez.
This would give him another title opportunity right away. And
the Louis Lopez fight was close. I think he also

(09:02):
split decision. But you know, he looks at it like
he gets another title shot in his hometown. The whole
events built around him. These guys are all delusional for
the most part, Chris. They always think they're going to win.
It's never too much, it's never an assignment too big
or too dangerous. So I would probably expect Josh Warrington
and to embrace it, because how else is he going

(09:22):
to make that kind of money. How is he going
to have an entire event to built around, a big
event built around him in his hometown and have another
title opportunity. As I think he's, you know, thirty two
or so something like that. You know, he's getting towards
the back end of his career here, so he probably
would pounce on it, and like you said, probably turns
out very similarly to their first fight. But these guys,

(09:44):
it's it's never enough for the most part, I mean,
very few of them walk away kind of the same
idea about where they are in their careers that those
of us on the outside looking in see it. I
do like a rematch with Wood, though, you know what
was doing well in that fight. He was landing good
power shots. It looked like at times that Laura was

(10:06):
fatigued during that fight. I thought Wood's game plan was excellent,
you know, and maybe in a rematch he doesn't get
cut early on, which I think changed a few things
for him, especially in that second round. Got a little
too overeager in that second round and paid the price
for it. I think he can win a rematch. He's
gotta be a little more careful and not expose himself
and the way he did for that countershot, But I

(10:26):
do like the idea of a Wood rematch if Laura
can't get either one of those fights right away. He's
kind of a perfect fit for that Canelo undercard in May.
Like if he can come back quickly, I mean, he
can fight in Mexico on Canelo's undercard, have kind of
a showcase type of fight before going into another fight
against either Wood or Warrington over the summer. But he

(10:47):
has established himself as one of, if not the top
guy in one hundred and twenty six pound division. Sticking
with the UK, we had some news involving counter Bed,
who has been talking a lot about his pending exoneration
and now has a little bit of support to back

(11:10):
it up. The WBC has cleared Connor Ben of wrongdoing,
at least as far as their rankings go, buying into
the argument to boil it down. Not to make a
pun there, but Connor Ben ate too many eggs and
that was what contributed to the positive clomapheme test. Now

(11:32):
this has been criticized, to say the least by some
in the sports science community. I saw Victor Conti make
some public statements basically calling it ludicrous that the WBC
would come to this conclusion. Ultimately, Keith, as you know,
with a WBC says, has no weight whatsoever. They can

(11:52):
reintroduce connor Ben into their welterweight rankings, but he can't
fight unless he's cleared by the British Boxing Board of
Control to fight the UK, or is licensed by a
major commission in the US or elsewhere. So I guess
your your reaction to the WBC clearing connor Ben and

(12:14):
buying into that two hundred and seventy page document that
he allegedly sent over to them, Well, they sure gave
him plenty of time to get his story straight. I'll
say that because he failed this test in July for
some reason. In the letter that the WBC released, they said, there,
I don't know their investigative unit, whatever that is. I

(12:34):
couldn't get to it until January. I'm really sure why
that would be either. Can you just picture, by the way,
can you just picture Racio Suleman like in a law
and order theme like Dunna. Yeah, that's the Gate of
Units is. That's what it says. I don't remember exactly
what it was called, but there it was referred to

(12:54):
in the letter that they sent out Chris, as as
it relates to the WBC's credibility regarding peed testing, it
was just destroyed beyond recognition based on what they did
with the Oscar Valdes situation. I don't take anything they
say related to peed testing seriously anymore. I don't know

(13:17):
how anyone could look, what is the purpose of having
this clean boxing program, which was a good idea when
it was You know, they're in business with VADA, which
is a very respected agency that seemingly trying to do
the right thing, and now every time at least a
prominent fighter fails a test, they allow the fighter to

(13:38):
excuse his way out of it. What is the purpose
of the testing? But like you said, Chris, it really
is irrelevant because until licensing agencies clear him, in this
case the British Boxing Board of control it doesn't matter.
He's not going to be licensed to fight anywhere where
he wants to fight. I mean, obviously he will make
the most money for his fight in the UK, and

(14:02):
the British Boxing Board of Controls said, oh that that's nice. WBC,
thank thanks for chiming in, but we don't really care
what you're saying because until he proves it to UK
anti doping, it doesn't matter to us. So he will
probably go fight in the Middle East, where presumably he
can do whatever he wants. But he's not going to
fight in the UK, and I don't know if there's

(14:22):
ever any call for him to fight in the US,
but he certainly would have similar problems here getting licensed.
So all it really did for the WBC is make
itself seem even more ridiculous as it relates to peed testing,
which is almost unfathomable because they really embarrass themselves with
the Oscar Valdez situation. I didn't think they could get

(14:44):
worse based on and Oscar Valdez fought, and there were
some loopholes that were exploited based on what's in the
regulations for being licensed and for whats being you know,
for being sanctioned to fight for a title. But again,
I just don't understand the point of having this clean
boxing program when you just ignore the findings. It's stupid.

(15:08):
It is putting the WBC's decision aside. Do you understand
why that Connor Ben and Eddie Hearn wanted this ruling
from the WBC, because, like we said it is kind
of a toothless ruling, Like did I mean, do they
almost want just to kind of a minor victory in

(15:29):
all this to at least be able to publicly claim
that they have been exonerated, even though everybody knows that
you aren't truly exonerated until the Board of Control rules
in your favor, the state of the Vada rules in
your favor, the state of New York rules in your favor,
any of these major commissions that connor Ben would like

(15:51):
to be licensed by. I just never understood why, you know,
Eddie Herm would come out and say, well, this was
under the WBC's jurisdiction. Well not really, right, Like the
WBCC is just a sactioning body. The British Boxing Board
of Control is the body that's in charge of all this.
I've ever quite understood why, you know, the WBC was

(16:11):
the first stop on the connor Ben attempted redemption tour.
The only thing that this affords, the only thing that
the WBC ruling affords connor Ben is that he now
could be ranked in the top fifteen in their welterweight rankings.
I guess right, who cares? I mean the WBO once
ranked a deceased person. What does it matter? Very true,

(16:34):
right in the top fifteen, who cares? So if I
can't imagine that matter, well, listen, Eddie. You know, as
a promoter has to maintain a good relationship with all
the sanctioning bodies because they're going to be of use
to you at some point with other fighters. So you know,
I guess, I guess they have to commend the WBC
publicly for doing what they did. But again, it doesn't

(16:57):
matter until until the British Boxing Board of Control, the
most pertinent organization involved in this at this point, clears him.
Who cares. But but again, Chris, he can go fight
in Dubai or Saudi Arabia or somewhere else where. They
basically have a commission that was just formed in the
last few years and they'll just allow you know, payholeba.

(17:20):
I don't know what the benefit of bringing Connor Ben
to Dubai. Is there going to be some line of
people to see Connor Ben fight in Dubai, I don't know.
But they seem to be spending a lot of money
on other events that I don't know why they you know,
that doesn't really seem all that sensible, but they print
money over there, so they don't really care about that either. Well,
bottom line is you're not going to be able to

(17:42):
do a big domestic fight with connor Ben anytime soon,
like You're just not like the and the EU bank
fight's gone now anywayeah gone gone. And even if you back,
we're able to win a rematch against Liam Smith, you
could conceivably piece that back together in terms of public interest.
But you know, I think, and a lot of people
in boxing think that whenever Connor Ben faces the British

(18:06):
Boxing Board and submits his evidence, he's gonna face some
kind of suspension and that's it's not going to lead
to him immediately getting reinstated or licensed by the British
Boxing Board of Control. By the way, last thing in
connor Ben, I didn't know Domino's pizza was that savage.
Did you see that tweet from Domino's Pizza UK. It

(18:27):
was a tweet that they put out calling this new
pizza the connor Ben Special and it was a cheese
pizza with egg on it. They put eggs on the
pizza Savage burn by Domino's Pizza UK. And connor Ben
replied and he said, I prefer pizza. There is a
pizza war going on in the UK, Keith, involving Connor Ben.

(18:49):
First of all, I would like to know why Chris
Mannox is following the Domino's UK I wasn't it just
popped on my timeline? I was. Second, I didn't even
know they had Domino's pizza in the UK. So you know, yeah, clever,
I suppose you know Savage burned by Domino's UK against

(19:09):
god or Benn. That was wild, unbelievable. All right. Jake
Paul is back this weekend, finally getting in the ring
against Tommy Fury. This is a fight that's been scheduled
now three times. Tommy has backed out of it twice
for various reasons, first due to injury, second due to
the inability to get cleared to fly into the US.

(19:30):
This is being build Keith as Jake Paul's first test
against a real boxer. Tommy Fury officially eight no as
a professional boxer, though if you take a deeper look
at his resume you can see it's a very very
thin one for a professional boxer. Let me ask you this, what,
if anything, do you think Jake Paul would prove with
the win over Tommy Fury. The combined records of Tommy

(20:00):
furies eight opponents is thirty four, one hundred and seventy
six and five. So you could certainly argue that fighting
Tyron Woodley or Anderson Silva was more impressive than fighting
Tommy Fury. Now, he's Tyson Fury's brother, but he only
had twelve amateur fights. The pitiful combined record of his

(20:23):
professional opponents is embarrassing, and if you really look at it,
he has eight professional fights. He's eight and oh with
four knockouts. Anderson Silva, who has spent most of his
life as an MMA, you know, an elite level MMA fighter,
has five professional boxing matches. So what is really the
difference between Anderson Silva and Tommy Fury, Other than that

(20:45):
Anderson Silva is better. He's already fought someone better than
Tommy Fury. Tommy Fury is a nice guy, man, I
don't easy to deal with. It seems like a pleasant person.
And all that he's clearly living off his brother's name
and fame and legacy and all that he's not is yeah,

(21:07):
and he's famous in the UK and all that, And
I don't blame him. He's just exploiting the opportunity and
he's making it an what I was told he was
making five million dollars for this fight, which is wow,
that that's accurate. That's nuts. But again, these Sudies are
just printing money, so they bring this big event over there.
Jake Paul, to his credit, has said this himself. He said,

(21:28):
everyone is fixated on this quote unquote real boxer theme.
I've already fought someone who's better than him and beat
him in his last fight. I thought the fight was
a little closer than the scorecards had it, but he
did knock Anderson Silva down. And Anderson Silva, to Tommy
Fury's point, is more than twice his age. He's forty
seven years old, you know, but he probably has you know,

(21:51):
he'd beat Look, Julio says. Archavaz Junior, of course, is
not the gold standard for professional boxers. He doesn't prepare properly.
He hasn't you know, he has really irresponsibly gone about
most of his career. But he did beat him very convincingly.
And there's no way no fighter on Tommy Furies record
that is anywhere near as good as Julio says our

(22:13):
Chavez Junior, even at this age and even at sixty
percent of himself, So he's already beaten someone better than
Tommy Fury. So this whole real boxer play it doesn't
make a lot of sense. And Jake Paul himself has
said that. But if these people are willing to pay
him this amount of money to see a fight that, frankly,

(22:34):
I don't see how Jake Paul loses. Congratulations to them. Yeah,
I agree with everything that you said there. Tommy Fury
is a celebrity, certainly in the UK, but you know
I mentioned the resume. Just watch his fights, and I've
watched a handful of them over the years, Like he

(22:55):
doesn't possess a fraction of the skill that his half
brother does. What interests me most about this fight, Keith,
is that the Fury family is at least publicly putting
an enormous amount of pressure on Tommy Fury, Like Tyson
has basically said, you have to drop the family name
if you lose the Jake Baul. You know, Dad is
convinced that Tommy's gonna go out and flatten Jake. Tommy

(23:17):
doesn't knock guys out like he's got what four knockouts
on his resume, and he hasn't fought you know, these
world beaters with great chins. I'm honestly because I think
Jake's gonna win. I don't know how he wins, whether
it's a decision or he scores a knockout. I think
Jake's gonna win. But like, I'm more interested in the aftermath,
Like was this all just bluster or is Tommy Fury

(23:38):
gonna get like disowned by his family if he can't
beat Jake Paul. I think that's that's the most interesting
thing to me. Chris. If Jake Paul doesn't knock him out,
John Fury might you wouldn't want to go back to
the corner or go back on the flight home or
whatever and have to face him. I mean, that guy
is holy, you know, he's all that's not a stable dude.

(24:02):
And they've said some of this stuff, I'm sure in
part because they, you know, believe that he should win.
I guess, but Tyson Fury is no dummy. I mean,
he understands level his brother is at, and he has
publicly commended Jake Paul for his development. Now he's not
fighting quote unquote real boxers and all that, But Jake
Paul has shown a lot of improvement from the time

(24:23):
he turned pro three years ago until now. And you
can't really knock the hustle. I mean, if people are
it's it's a small segment of people, but if people
are willing to pay for this on pay per view
and pack these arenas, he's going to continue doing it,
just like he's going to be. He's insistent on rescheduling
this Tommy Fury fight for the third time because there
seemed to be, for whatever reason, public demand for it

(24:46):
in the UK more so, but among Jake Paul's fan base,
they wanted to see this, so they're seeing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Jake Jakes smart about that. He knows that, yeah, there's
there's one opportunity here to fight and beat Tommy Fury
and make a whole boatload of money off it. And
even as frustrating as probably has been to have the

(25:08):
previous two fights rescheduled and you know, slow the momentum
of his career, it's smart that he went out and
rescheduled this. And the one thing I'd say about both
of these guys, I mean, I've been in Jake Paul's camp.
I know, he takes his career seriously, like he's not
He's limited skill wise as a fighter, but he's working
as hard as humanly possible. You know, he's bringing in
the right people to work with him and to teach

(25:29):
him certain things. I don't know if I can say
the same about Tommy Fury, who what his last fight?
Didn't he Misswaight by like eight pounds, you know, initially
like it was. You know, that's not a sign of
a guy that is treating boxing with the gravity that
it needs to be treated with. So I think Jake
is a favorite in this fight, and I'm I'm curious

(25:51):
to see the fallout, what happens with you know, Fury's corner.
What does Tyson say afterwards if Tommy Fury winds up
on the losing end. A subplot of this, Keith, is
that the WBC has said if Jake Paul wins, it
will give him a world ranking at cruiserweight. Now. I
had this conversation last week with Sergio Morrow, a former

(26:14):
WBC Junior middleweight champion, and he was fairly outraged by it,
you know, you know, as most fighters would be. What
do you make of this? I mean, I look at
this as being the WBC just desperately trying to get
into the Jake Paul business. But you also do have
a cruiserweight title fight on the undercard with Junior Macabu

(26:34):
going up against Badu Jack. I don't know if Jake
has any interest in fighting for a cruiserweight title because
quite frankly, there's not as much money in a cruiserweight
title fight as there is an Adaz fight or a
KSI fight. But what did you make of the WBC
saying with you know only what would be seven professional
fights and only a couple against guys with real boxing

(26:56):
resumes if you want to call it that, they will
give him a cruiser ranking well in the release, and
it seemed like Mauricio Suaman is trying to set a
record for saying asinine things in a finite amount of time,
I guess, But he didn't specify how he would be ranked,
because the WBC, for some reason, ranks forty fighters per division,

(27:20):
whereas most of the other I think all of the
other ones stop at fifteen because you have to be
in the top fifteen to qualify for a title shot.
So if you're ranked thirty fourth, who really cares? What
is the purpose of doing it. I guess. I'm sure
they charge the fighters in some way. They get something
out of it. But so if let's just say Jake
Paul knocks out Tommy Fury and he pops up at

(27:41):
number thirty nine in the next set of WBC rankings
for cruiserweights, it doesn't really matter because he can't fight
for a title. Now if he pops up at fifteen,
then it's a real issue because there are if you
go look at their rankings, like the number fifteen in
the most recent WBC rankings, the number fifteen contender is

(28:02):
Brandon Glenn, who just lost a very close fight. It's
his only loss. You know, he's a legitimate cruiserweight contender.
So let's just say Jake Paul replaced him in the rankings.
If I were Brandon Glenn, I'd be furious because you know,
he doesn't belong there. And if you're taking the spot
of a guy who potentially could get a title fight.
When let's just say the winner of Macabu and Bad

(28:25):
Dud Jack is looking for an optional defense or something,
and you're eliminated from that BIX because Jake Paul is
in the rankings and the only quote unquote real boxer
that he has fought is Tommy Fury. I mean, you
should be outraged, but again, if he if he is
only ranked in the top forty, I don't it doesn't matter.

(28:45):
It's he can't fight for a title. But I don't
know if Mauricio Suliman did that intentionally leaving it vague
the way that they did in the announcement that they
sent out, but he didn't specify. And there's a huge
difference between being ranked in the top fifteen and being
ranked in the top forty anywhere from sixteen through forty.
No one's paying attention to that anyway, and it doesn't

(29:07):
really help you get a title shot. So if they
do it, well, it's kind of goofy and shouldn't happen,
but it's not really all that damaging for the guys
who otherwise, if he's ranked in the top fifteen, would
be cheated out of a potential title shot. I guess yeah.
I get the feeling that the WBC would like to

(29:28):
rank him higher that he deserves, like there's no other
reason to rank him other than to potentially set him
up with the shot at the cruiserweight title, right like
isn't that the follow the money, right, Chris, Yeah, of course.
And it's not a coincidence that Baddy Jack and no

(29:49):
fighting on the undercard. It would be really shameful, even
for boxing, if Jake Paul were to get a title fight.
In a quiet moment, Jake Paul would tell you that
if he got to not even quiet, like, he doesn't
look like he puts like a world title things his
end game, Like he'd love to fight for a world
title his very last possible fight. But Jay Paul is

(30:10):
about the big fights and the big money at this point,
and like even if even if he got a shot
at Junior maccabu or body Jack for a world title,
like genuinely, Keith, like, how much interest do you think
there would be in a Paul Macabu fight in the US,
Like it would be intriguing to see Jake Paul fight
for a legitimate world title. But this far more interest

(30:33):
in Nate Daz, This far more interest in KSI. There's
probably five or six guys that would generate more interest
with Jake Paul than a Cruise Wait title fight at
this point. Well, Macabo already fought pretty close to Cleveland
last year. So that this was all set up, developed
his fan base in that area. Maccabo was running around

(30:53):
with that. Maccabo was trying to hold on that title
till something crazy happens. It was Cannello a couple of
years ago going to move up to Away and fight
for a title. Now he's on the Jake Paul undercard
against body Jack. Yeah, well Bader Jack didn't look particularly
good in his last fight. Um, he won, but you
know Macabu is slipping a little bit too, so maybe

(31:13):
he pulls this off, you know. And then Baddy Jack
is a is a known name. You know, he's a
former world champion in two divisions. So and that would
be making a third division. Um, I don't know, they could.
They could do it in the Middle East. I mean,
he's Muslim, he's he lives I believe Baddy Jack lives
in Dubai now, so they could sell it as an

(31:33):
event over there. In that way, it would just be
I mean again, Chris, just so shameful for boxing. If
Jake Paul he gets a title shot in his next fight. Um,
one of the worst things that's happened in recent memory.
And that's saying a lot because he because he just
doesn't deserve it. He can go, you know, fight Nate

(31:55):
Diaz or whomever else and make a lot of money,
and it's, you know, it's that he's entitled to do that.
But to fight for a world title after what he's
done over a seven fight period would be pretty crazy. Yeah,
I agree, and I quite frankly think Jake Paul would
agree as well. All right, let's talk about the fight
that you were supposed to be at this weekend, but

(32:16):
we'll be covering for Boxing scene remotely a hundred and
forty pound fight, but Ts versus Ponce, this has war
written all over teeth. You got two guys that are
just come forward, heavy handed kind of guys. That might
not be the most technically most technical fight that's out there,

(32:37):
but it feels like this has fight of the Year
contender kind of written all over it. What are you
expecting in this matchup? You know, I spoke to both
guys at length, Chris, and they said both of them
said the same thing. They expect the war they expected.
I think the words that Ponce used, which were translated
to me, was to be a high voltage affair or
the fans are not going to be disappointed. I think

(32:59):
they both expect that type of knockdown, drag out fight.
You know. Superio Mattias is a guy who, you know,
it just comes forward. He's a huge puncher. Every fight
that he has won as a professional has been won
by knockout. He avenged his only loss to petros Ananyan
by just beating him down in the rematch last January.
It was a competitive fight for much of it, but

(33:19):
then he started beating him up and he knocked down
to nine and for the first time to NaN's career
and became the first opponent to stop him. He's a
huge puncher. He comes to fight, you know, not much
for defense, doesn't have the greatest job, you know, but
he's a huge puncher. Hans, you know, he looked great
that Lewis Ritzon fight. That's the biggest fight of his career.

(33:40):
He went to Lewis Ritzon's hometown, beat him up pretty badly,
especially to the body, knocked him down three times in
the tenth round, and won that fight by t KO
and that's how he became the mandatory challenger for Josh
Taylor's IBF title, which Taylor later gave up, and then
the IBF ordered him to fight Mattius for this vacant title.
I think it's going to be a great fight, and

(34:02):
it's it's under the radar because neither guy is exactly
a household name even among boxing fans. But people are
well aware of Mattias because he's been fighting on PBC
cards in recent years and he's Puerto Rican and it's
kind of surprising that he hasn't become bigger because you know,
the Puerto Ricans embraced, you know, all of their fighters,
and this guy can really, you know, really crack and

(34:24):
he knocks people out. You would think he would be
a bigger name than he is now. But maybe winning
this title and getting into a bigger fight you can
do that for his career. But Ponse is going to
be a different He's a I think Mattias is afford
to one favorite, and he'd have to favor him to
win the fight based on what he's done. Ponce hasn't
fought the highest level of opposition. But again, that Lewis

(34:45):
Ritzon fight, and I'm not saying Ritson's as good as Mattias.
Certainly not the puncher that Mattias is, But to go
to his hometown and do that to him was impressive,
and that's been as tough as tests to date. This
has kind of been neutral territory and neither of them
has anything to do with Minneapolis, Minnesota, which is the
hometown of Jamal James was fighting on the co feature.

(35:06):
But I just think it's going to be an excellent
fight and and that'd be great back to back weeks
coming off of the Nary Hornisian fight, and of course
the Lee would the dramatic ending to the Lora Lee
would fight would be good to build some momentum here
and you know, somewhat lower profile fights, but but fights
that fans will enjoy. Well, it's a great fight. And

(35:27):
to your point, in terms of bigger fights in the future,
a lot at stake, I mean, one hundred and forty
is poised to become kind of a glamour division in
boxing with the names that are in there already right now,
whether it's Josh Taylor, Tafi Mo Lopez Reaches program of
course the title holder, but also with one hundred and
thirty five pounders Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia, they figured to

(35:48):
be moving up before the end of the year. And
if you can get one of those belts, the IBF
belt in this case, that's currency, Keith, that's like, you know,
half a million dollar payday, million dollar payday guaranteed in
in probably your next fight, whether it's a unification fight
or you're fighting against one of those top guys like
a Haney or a Ryan Garcia. So you know, financially,

(36:12):
if there's a lot of steak. I mean, both these
guys want to become title holders, but I would think
the money is in the future. Money is even more
important at this point. Yeah, as much as we you know,
criticize there being four four and then in something I
guess five if you recognize the w the IBO. Um,
you know, there are too many titles, but these titles

(36:33):
are very valuable to the fighters because they'll make much
more money by defense. Even if Supermatis loses, you say,
he wins on Saturday Night and he goes and defends
the title against uh, you know, a higher profile but
whoever it might be, he's gonna make a lot of money.
So these titles are very valuable to the guys. And
it's gonna be a fun fight. Like I said, Chris,
and I think, um, you know, you get some bang
for your buck on on Saturday Night. Oh, except Regis

(36:55):
Programmers kind of like holding his title up, going like
does anybody want a title shot? Well, I don't know
if i'd want to fight Regious Program either, if there
were a path to a title, like if you're a
Tiafimo Lopez, And I'm not saying he couldn't beat Regious Program,
but you know, there's been some slippage and tia Fimo
and his last fight, he didn't look particularly good. But
I would rather fight Josh Taylor, and Lopez is willing

(37:18):
to go over to the UK and do it, you know,
even to Glasgow. So I've been told that that that's
possible that that fight would be in the US also,
But whatever the case, if you're him, that's the higher
profile fight, and then maybe he would fight Regious Program
after that and a title unification fight. But you know,
progra is one of those I don't know. It's not

(37:38):
that there's no reward because he has one of the
titles and people obviously know who Regius Program is. But
that's a tough fight, man. I mean, look look what
he just did to Jose Zapeta, who no one had.
Zapeta had been knocked down multiple times by Ivan Barranchet,
but he got up and knocked him cold to win
the fight. But no one had done that to Zapeta. So,

(37:59):
you know, Progray still somewhat in the prime of his career.
Atlieve he's thirty three. Man, it's gonna be tough to
get people to sign up to fight him, particularly when
he's not with you know, if he were with top
ranking his fights from ESPN, you're getting this great exposure,
or if he was with PBC and the fights are
on showtime, whatever the case might be. He's not even
really affiliated with a promoter of that has a TV
deal in the US, and the last fight was an

(38:20):
independent pay per view. You know, so unless someone's putting
up a decent amount of money for you to go
fight him, people are going to steer clearer of him. Yeah,
and not to make this about program, but I can
understand this frustration. Like if he came within like what
a point two points of beating Josh Taylor a few
years ago, he wins that fight, you know, he's undis

(38:40):
on the path to undisputed, probably would be undisputed at
this point, and a marquee guy with multiple options in
terms of promoters and networks. Instead, he loses that fight
in a close way and has been kind of in
the boxing wilderness ever since. He gets the world title shot.
He wins the world title and now he's he's still
looking for something. I mean, I'd love to see a
Jack Catterall fight get put together. That fight makes some sense.

(39:02):
You could do it over in the UK. Catterall has
earned an opportunity at a world title shot in the
aftermath of the Taylor fight, and all the postponents for that.
I don't know that it's doable. I know that they've
explored it internally. You know, we'll see if the money
is there for it. But that's a fight I'd love
to see put together over in the UK. It makes
it makes a good amount of sense. Last thing for you, Keith,

(39:26):
it seems like every week two weeks we wonder about
the future of Ganadi Gilofkin, who was a couple of
weeks ago he vacated his IBF title at one hundred
and sixty pounds. It's sure sounds like or seems like
that his wbl BA belt is going to go the
same way. There is going to be at some point

(39:46):
a purse bid calls for a purse bid for a
fight against Aris Slandi Lara, who is the secondary title holder.
I don't think Glofkin would shy away from that fight.
Be you better pay him for that fight, and I
don't think the money is out there for a showdown
with Aris Landy Lara. Like, what's your read on Golopkin's future?
I mean, I I talked about this with other people,
you know, before we vacated the IBF title. Now here

(40:10):
we are and we could head into March with Golofkin
either about to be or being a non titleholder. You know,
he's in a weird position, Chris, because he's accustomed to
making X amount of money because frankly, the Zone has
overpaid him throughout his partnership with the company. They really
wanted the third Canello fight and they and they did

(40:33):
get it. You know, it took four years or so
for it to finally happen, but it did happen. And
he's accustomed to making huge purses, but those huge purses,
especially since the company that he's done all this business
with and made the most money with, he's basically said,
I don't want to work with them. Anymore. So I
don't know where he goes from here, because there's no

(40:55):
one else going to fund these fights. I mean, let's
just say he were to now he gives away these
middleweight titles the fight. Let's just say with Charlo, if
he were to fight Charlo, which I don't foresee happening,
but if he were, if he gives up all of
these middleweight titles and it's not a unification fight, it
becomes less attractive to Charlo, and then it's just you know,
is Al Hayman going to guarantee He wouldn't guarantee money

(41:17):
to Terence Crawford to fight Arrol Spence. He's gonna guarantee
money to a forty one year old man who you know,
I don't know what would the purpose of that. He's
not his guy. It just like Terrence Crawford wasn't his guy,
So he's not going to do it. ESPN certainly is
not going to guarantee get out of Gelovkin enormous amounts
of money, and then you would have to hope that
if you're him, that some situation arises, like the Maradas

(41:40):
situation where he went to Japan and he was paid
very well to go to go fight in a unification
fight in Japan, and he was well compensated. But I
think all of those avenues have already been explored and exploited.
And you know, he's either going to have to lower
his asking price for these fights or retire because I
don't you know, from a standpoint, he's gonna want to

(42:01):
be paid a certain amount, and he thinks he's worth
a certain amount, which is fine, but if there's no
one willing to fund it, well, what do you what
is anyone supposed to do? Eventually he's gonna have to
he can't hold the title's hostage, which they're not allowing
him to do because he already gave up the IBF
title and it looks like he may be on his
way to giving up the WBA title. So then does
he fight a sixty eight pound or he just fought
one hundred and sixty eight pounds and of course lost

(42:23):
to Canelo. But does he go up to sixty eight
for a big fight? Is it? I guess is it
worth it to him too? Because he's I'm assuming he's
done well with his money. He's made a lot of
money over the last ten years or so, so he
doesn't really need to fight, so maybe he just ultimately
decides this isn't worth it. I don't want to fight.
You know, whoever's ranked high in these in the ratings,

(42:45):
you know, Zalafa or Falkau or whoever, and he just
decides to call today that I could see that happening. Yeah,
it's it's funny. And I'm sure you make the same
phone calls. But every time I talk to people in
Golopkins bit and ask them what the plan is that
there isn't one, Like there's no They're unable to articulate

(43:06):
what the endgame is in the first half of this
year for Ganadi Golopkin. And I keep harkening back on
kind of how enthusiastic Golofkin was after the Canelo loss
about returning to one sixty and defending his titles. That
he seemed really adamant at the time that his career
was going to continue. And I don't see Gnadi Golopkin
as being the kind of guy that wants to go

(43:28):
out with a loss, especially not one to his arch
rival in Cannelo Alvarez. But I'm with you, there's got
to be a course correction at some point to accept
that the landscape has changed, that the guarantees are not
going to be there, that if he wants to fight
in a marketable fight, he's going to have to take
less or no guarantee against Jamal Charlo, less or no

(43:50):
guarantee against Time Mungia. I mean, there's no like, you're
not going to make big money to go fight Liam
Smith in the UK. The Japanese avenue is closed, like
there just isn't. Yeah, you know, like Eddie Hearn's not
putting him in the Middle East to make you know,
big dough like this just not that the options aren't there.
And you know, he seemed so proud, justifiably of still

(44:14):
being a unified world champion at middleweight at forty years old,
and now he's on the cusp of losing both those titles.
It just feels like this has been either there was
some delusion you know in team Golofkin after the Canelo fight,
or you know, they're just now coming to the realization
that this this kind of money, you know, just isn't

(44:36):
out there. I mean, I think a Charlo fight makes
some sense, but to your point, like al Haman's not
going to guarantee him real money to fight for Charlo's
middleweight title. On that point, Keith Charlo is supposedly coming back,
you know in June, it'll be two years off. I mean,
are you buying Jamal Charlo coming back at one sixty

(44:56):
and you know what's his pathway to relevancy again. Well,
he's supposed to come back in June, and I would
expect it to be in Houston on showtime. He he's
going to fight. I thinks the type of opponent he's
going to fight as anyone's guests, because it's not going
to be someone who they think has any chance of

(45:17):
beating him. I don't I wouldn't expect that to happen.
But it goes back to some of what I was
referring to earlier. You can't allow these guys, whatever's going
on in their personal lives or or they're you know
physically with injuries and everything, you cannot allow these guys
to hold these titles hostage for years on end. He
has not fought in almost two years. When he does

(45:39):
fight in June, it's going to be almost exactly two
years since the previous time that he fought. When he
did not look particularly great against one to see as Montiel,
who Carlos Adamas later destroyed. Carlos so Adamas is the
is the mandatory each he's the interims champion of manager
for Charlos' title. I certainly going to fight Carlos Adamas
in June, and he might not want to fight Carlos

(46:02):
Adamas at all. If that's the case, that he's well
within his right to do that, But then vacate the
title and move up, or do whatever you want to do.
But give Carlos Adamas his opportunity to be the full
champion because you can't. It's similar to what's going on
with Spence. I go off on a tangent here, but
Spence is holding these welterweight titles hostage. You couldn't figure
it out the Crawford fight. Okay, you tried. It seems

(46:23):
pretty much now like it just might not happen. He
shouldn't be allowed to hold the IBF, WBA and WBC
titles and fight Keith Thurman in one hundred and fifty
four pound fight. That's ridiculous. It just shouldn't be. So,
you know, if their activity level is once a year
or once every two years or whatever it might be,
the rest of boxing shouldn't be held hostage, or the

(46:46):
rest of the fighters and their divisions and their careers
should not be held back for those long, long periods
of time. And the same apply is to Glofkin. If
you can't figure out, you know, go figure out how
you're going to maximize your dollars in your next fight. Okay,
your business. You can do what you want, but you
can't hold the titles too. Yeah, And I think in
this case, the sanctioning bodies that held his titles have

(47:07):
done the right thing right, They've the IBF has ordered
a mandatory fight, GLAF get elected not to go through
with it. That belt has gone The WBA at some
point is going to order the Lara fight that belt
likely to go away. So in those cases I would
praise rare praise for the sanctioning bodies for doing the
right thing. But the WBC, who is I think the
title of this episode should be the WBC sucks, like

(47:30):
because of all that they've all the things they've done
that we're beating up on them for. But like the WBC,
like if Charlo wants to come back, great, who wants
to defend his title? Great. It should have to be
against Carlos Adamez. The WBC, speaking of their investigative unit,
they said they were going to investigate what's going on
with Charlo back in November, like it's been three months.

(47:50):
Charlo says, going to come back. Yeah, there's nothing really
to investigate. Look the guy, it's been you know, other
people program who was close to Charlo into the public sphere.
You know, he's had some personal issues, you know, and
and he's dealing with those. He kind of alluded to
it in an Instagram post a few weeks ago, and
I understand. You know, people go through tough situations in

(48:11):
their lives and they're just he's just not right in
the right frame of mind to fight. Of course, you know,
get yourself together and get back into camp. And he again,
he can do that. I mean, it's he's well within
his right to do that, but not by holding the
title hostage at the same time. He just shouldn't be
allowed to do that, especially if he's going to move
up anyway. Well, and from his perspective, why give the WBC.

(48:35):
No one cares whether you're the WBC middleweight champion or
not because you're not fighting the people in the middleweight
division that people want to see you fight. I'm not
saying that's all necessarily his fault because he tried to
fight Monghia last year and we've all been through that.
Why that fell apart. So he's tried to fight some guys.
But but if he's not going to fight people opponents
who people will be interested in, why does it really

(48:58):
matter If he's the WBC middlewahampion, who cares? So just
give up the title and save yourself some money. You
have kids to put through college at some point. Why
give the WBC three percent of you know, a seven
figure purse just because Yeah, look, a lot of buying interrupted.
But one thing I meant to mention during this Glovkin thing.

(49:18):
You know who's the number two ranked middleweight contender by
the w BA. Oh give it to me. Sergio Martinez.
Martinez is forty eight years old, and if there is
someone in Argentina with a lot of money who wants
to waste it, maybe they could make Sergio Martinez against

(49:41):
Gnati Golovkin and Buenos Aires. Ten years after lou Debella
said absolutely not, Sergio Martinez against Gnati Glovkin, maybe they
would make it. I love I. If you ever want
to have some fun and you're a boxing fan, check
out the WBA's the rankings. I remember doing this when

(50:02):
when Alexis Rocha was going to fight George Ashy, and
ashe was the late replacement for Roacha, I started thinking,
like who is Ashy? Like I'm doing my research on him,
and I look at the WBA rankings in December and
George Ashy, who had zero fights as in the full
one hundred and forty seven pound division. He fought above

(50:22):
one forty one, but he fought a guy that was
in the one fifties, making that fight officially a junior
middleweight fight. Zero official fights at one hundred and forty
seven pounds, he was ranked I think thirteenth by the
WBA in their rankings, and Alexis Rocha, a career long welterweight,
was not ranked in the WBA rankings. Like how are

(50:43):
these put together? Just pulling names out of a hat,
Like I just I can't, I can't. Sergio Martinez number
two at one sixty. Sergio Martinez, despite fighting a succession
of stumble bumps in his return to boxing, great bring
on goloftin Sergio Martinez for the WBA middleweight title in

(51:04):
Buenos Areas that I'm just saying, if there's someone when
in Argentina willing to pay for it, would either of
us be surprised if that eventually wound up? Even if
even if Glovkin doesn't have the title. I mean, it's
much more meaningful for Martinez if he does. But UM

(51:24):
and I don't want to see it, and for the
health of Sergio Martinez, even against a forty one year
old Glovekin or forty two, whenever it might happen. It's
not a good idea, but that doesn't generally stop them.
You probably got the exact same phone calls I did
from Lou de Bella back then when Goloftin was chasing Sergio,
and Lou would say, absolutely not, I'm not putting my

(51:47):
guy in with that guy, no chance on earth. It
would be fitting Keith that with both guys well passed
forty to see them finally square off. And Lou's not
involved in Serge Martin is his career anymore, so he's
not there to put a stop to that. I don't know.
I don't know if I want to see that. Keith

(52:07):
enjoy covering the fight this weekend from the comforts of home.
I assume you're not going to be jumping on Amtrak
or anything like that too, sir, try to make your
way to Minnesota. Always appreciate the time my friend. Welcome Chris.
Good to see him in and when we come back.
This week's picks brought to you by Fan Duel. Well,
the NBA season is heating up, and now is the

(52:29):
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(53:11):
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live offers. Make every moment more with fan Duel, an
official sports betting partner of the NBA. All right, so
I took another one on the chin last week. I

(53:34):
don't feel as bad about that loss as I felt
about the one prior two weeks ago. I should have
known better than to take Ray Vargas against Oshacky Foster.
Vargas was physically bigger, but o'shacky Foster was the natural one.
Thirty eh, that one that's gonna sting last week plus

(53:56):
three seventy for Lee Wood. He was winning that fight
well through six rounds. Got caught with a monster punch
and that was the ballgame. So you win, somebody lose
some I don't mind betting a big dog on that
one because I think it was worth the risk. This week,
I'm looking at the one hundred and forty pound division
world title fight. Soabrielle Matthias jeremiahs Pounce. This fight is

(54:16):
in Minnesota, it is for a vacant title at junior welterweight. Look,
I can't bet against Matthias in this one. Both these
guys are rough and tumble guys. It's gonna be an
absolute war for as long as it last. Mattias right
now minus four hundred according to fan Duel, I gotta
go with that bet. Matthias to win feels like a

(54:37):
pretty safe place to put your money. I think Mattias
is one of the most powerful one hundred and forty
pounders that we've not only seen in boxing today, we've
seen in quite some time. So I think Mattias is
gonna win. I also think he's gonna win by knockout.
Minus one sixty according to fan Duel, is what Mattias is.
The odds are for Mattis by knockout. I think that's

(54:59):
a safe bet too. You're not gonna win a ton
of money making this bet, but if you want to
bet big, I feel very confident that Mathias wins and
Mathias wins by knockout. Back on track this week in
the wind column. Those are my picks, brought to you
by Fan Duel. That's it for this week's episode. My
thanks to Keith Idek for joining the show as always, subscribe, rate,
review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts,

(55:24):
and I'll see you next week.