Boxing with Chris Mannix - Riyadh Season in the US

Joining Mannix this week is veteran boxing journalist Corey Erdman. Mannix and Erdman further unpack Ryan Garcia's win over Devin Haney, discuss Saudi Arabia's first U.S. show, break down an important fight for Jose Ramirez and more; later, longtime trainer Robert Garcia joins to talk Haney-Garcia, his new partnership with Oscar Duarte, re-joining forces with Vergil Ortiz, a fresh start for Ramirez and more. #Volume #Herd

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Well, the eighty two game preseason is in the books
and it's finally time for the real season. So don't
miss out on any of the NBA playoff action at
DraftKings Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NBA.
If you guys follow me here for boxing, you know
that I am a basketball guy through and through cover
the NBA for almost twenty years, and I love the

(00:28):
competitiveness of this playoff field. It all begins with the
play in tournament, which has some blue bloods participating in it.
Out West, you've got the Warriors and the Lakers. In
the Eastern Conference, the Heat and the seventy six Ers,
which is going to lead to some ridiculously good first
round matchups. The Celtics are either going to get the

(00:49):
Heat or the Sixers, most likely. Out West, young teams
like the Thunder and the Timberwolves, you're going to wind
up probably against the more experienced group at the bottom
of the bracket.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
This playoff the mix is incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I think it's going to make for some great matchups,
some great gambling opportunities over the next few months. So
download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code manics new
customers bet five dollars and get two hundred dollars in
bonus bets instantly. That's code Mannix only on DraftKings. The
crown is yours.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or in West
Virginia visit one eight hundred gambler dot net. In New York,
call eight seven seven eight hope and WI or text
hope and Y four six seven three six nine. In Connecticut,
help is available for problem gambling. Call eight eight eight
seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG
dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino

(01:40):
when resorting. Kansas twenty one and over age varies by jurisdiction,
Void and Ontario one. No sweat bet per new customer
issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial
losing bet. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight
hours after issue. Ince See dknng dot com slash promos
for deposit wagering and eligibility restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
This is boxing with Chris Manning Oh's Somebody Punch Him
in the face. Anty Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher.
Watch this Everyone needs a Heavy.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Posted by SI's Chris Mannix. That was my moments now
with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world
of boxing.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
When you have talent, you are given another chance.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Here's Chris Mannix.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, you might think there is nothing to do in Fresno, California,
but Cory Erdman is not one of those people that
believes there's nothing to do. Corey Yosemite. Erdman is joining
me here in person on the podcast. Corey will be
on the MIC on Saturday for the Jose Ramirez rants

(02:47):
Barthelomy headline show live onto his own Before then, though,
he'll be puttering around Yosemite National Park.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Is that right, Corey? If I'm lucky, I'm definitely gonna
make it to Sierra National Forests. Like, what do you
mean there's nothing to do here in Fresno. Oh, I'm
just simply saying no. The I didn't say it. I
said that. The perception is you go to Fresno's nothing
to do. You would disagree with that perception. I would
strongly disagree with that. First of all, this is this
is like the capital of America. Neighbor bills, as Jose

(03:14):
Ramirez would tell you, plus there's just serenity and beauty
and a target right across.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
There is a target across the street, which you have
already frequented, and now we headed over there right after
we're done recording.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
But we are here in Fresno, big.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Fight, big event this weekend, A lot to get into,
Corey and I want to just touch on briefly at
the top the lawsuit that I just read today that
was filed I guess it's a counter complaint. One was
filed by Derek James no towards Errol Spence, ERL Spence.
I'm probably getting the language wrong, but countersuit him.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's an interesting read, to say the least.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
What it boils down to is Derek James believes that
he is owed ten percent of what Errol Spence made
on the entirety of the Terrence Crawford fight.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Believes he's owed.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Everything that every nickel that Errol Spence made in that fight.
Derek James believes he's owed ten percent of it. Errol
Spence as counter and said, no, no, no, you're owed what
the contract says, which is two point five million, which
is the minimum that a guy gets for this fight.
So Derek James believes he's owed that he also has
discovered it seems that he has not been properly paid

(04:30):
for the previous pay per views, has not gotten his
piece of the upside of the fight against Danny Garcia,
Mikey Garcia. There's a couple others there in that mix.
Kind of an ugly ending between a longtime fighter and
tran Remember, you know, Derek James had Arrow from the
very beginning. You know, he had him trained him leading
up to the Olympics, coached him from his first pro

(04:51):
fight up until now. And it seems now Corey, we've
reached the point in o return with these two.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, it's a it is a sad ending and I
don't like hearing these stories either, and I think that
it's there's a lot of kind of sadness I think
in Aerospence's life over the last little while. You know,
obviously the loss of Crawford and then everything previous to
that just seems like things are kind of spiraling a
little bit. I hope that's not the case. This kind

(05:18):
of speaks to another issue that I was thinking about
on the way over too, which kind of ties into
Garcia and Haney. And some of the reporting of kind
of the earnings of those fights. And it's I don't
believe much that no, of course, but it's I guess
like this speaks to kind of the finances in boxing
these days too, where no one really knows what anyone

(05:39):
is getting paid. And perhaps Derek James felt that he
was on the outside with regards to what his own
fighter was getting paid. I mean, it's ultimately, I think
the contract and what is on paper will will obviously
win out. That's how these lawsuits work. But the bad
to be clear, they have nothing on paper between the two, right,
I haven't read the law was. I had no idea

(05:59):
they have an oral agreement right that Derek James gets
ten percent of what person make, Yes, okay, right?

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Right?

Speaker 2 (06:06):
And the interpretation of what you make is wide open. Now, Look,
I'm of the belief that there's a middle ground here, right, Like,
is Derek James entitled to two point five million of
a twenty five million dollar person? Probably not that that
feels like in excessive amount. Is he owed more than
the three hundred and fifty thousand dollars that he was paid?

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Probably? You know, is he worth a million bucks to him? Yeah,
the guy's been with him from the very beginning. Look,
we see this a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
I've had this conversation in the past with Freddie Roach,
who's had conversations with Manny Pacio before his fights or
before their fights, where they discussed what he would make.
It wouldn't be a traditional you know, ten percent. Ten
percent is applicable, you know when you're fighting off pay
per view. Ten percent is less applicable when situations like
this where the minimum is the minimum. But then who

(06:51):
knows what the fight could be worried.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
If I recall, Freddy would just get like a flat fee, right,
you're getting this amount, And I think Robert Garcia was
doing something similar around the time too. Yeah, I mean
I think that's the middle ground. And then, look, they're
not going to meet it. This will wind up playing
itself out in court. There's a whole bunch of text
mess I encourage people to find the lawsuit and read it.
It's interesting to read, to say the least, which certainly

(07:13):
you finish reading it and you don't believe there's going
to be a reconciliation between these two. I think they're
pretty well done. So we'll talk more about that as
it develops, but pretty clear as Aero Spence comes back,
he will have a new trainer in his corner for
the first time in his pro career. All right, let's
look back a little bit on this past weekend. Devin Haney,
Ryan Garcia.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
We've had some days now to digest the end results
still of an epic night, thrilling performance by Ryan Garcia.
You were there sitting ringside. You call it the undercard
of that fight. Tell me what you were thinking as
as that fight developed.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
My mind has changed so much on like just over
the last seven days or so, because I going into
the fight, quite honestly, I was of the belief that,
like I was a little uncomfortable with the fight. And
I know that's a little weird saying that as a
guy that's calling fights for his own and whatnot, but
I was. I was uncomfortable seeing how Ryan was behaving
and that he was allowed to participate. Like it didn't

(08:13):
leave me with a good feeling going into the fight.
This is because of the mental health health, yes, exactly,
and obviously I didn't know what was going on and
still clearly don't know what was going on after the fight.
I was obviously as shocked as everyone that the result
was what it was, But in the immediate aftermath, I

(08:33):
still felt like the reaction was, oh, he won, so
everything is okay. And I wasn't fully comfortable with that either, Like,
I don't think that just because Ryan Garcia won, that
that means that he's all right, and that everything that
we saw beforehand was necessarily, you know, you know, a

(08:56):
fake or an act. But then the other day, you know,
I saw the podcast clip of Ryan saying, oh, like
I perpetrated the whole thing, this was all an act.
There's there's a video of me saying was at all
an act? You know, in the moments right after the fight, Chris,
when you were talking to him, he kind of let
on like, oh, you know, I'm not actually crazy, But
then he was still behaving the same way. He hadn't

(09:19):
let the act go if it was an act. So
I like, either, you know, Ryan Garcia is like an
Andy Kaufman level method actor with a comfort level in
kind of trafficking and dangering conspiracies, or there is actually
something going on, you know, Like I I really still
don't know what to think. But hell of a performance, though,

(09:41):
But underneath all of that I don't. I don't know
that I have a fully formed opinion. I think there's
definitely stuff going on.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I mean, at his post vice press conference, he said,
I drank all week, I went out early in the week.
You know, this was stuff he admitted to. He said
he wasn't proud of it, but he said that was
it was. And if you are behaving that way prior
to your fight, there's something going on there. There's something

(10:09):
happening with Ryan Garcia. Neither one of us are doctors,
were not psychiatrists. We can't diagnose him. But the idea
that this was all, you know, schadenfreud, that this was
all just a setup, that we were all supposed to
believe that this wasn't happening, I'm not entirely buying into
that altogether. I wanted to dive into the Haney side

(10:31):
of all this because the longer I've thought about this,
the more blame I place on the shoulders of Bill Haney. Look,
Bill Haney was the twenty twenty three Boxing Writers Manager
of the Year, had a banner year as a manager.

(10:53):
I don't think he managed his client well going into
this fight. When Ryangara rolled in three point whatever, pounds overweight.
An option for Bill Haney and for Devon was to
cancel the fight or conceivably shoven Artoll Barboza into that

(11:13):
main event, which is something that's been talked about, you know,
over the last couple of months. Bill Handy didn't do that.
There was probably an opening to attach a rehydration clause
to the new contract that was made Bill Haney, the
Handy side, they didn't do that. I think that's a failure. Look,
a lot of it's on the fighter. He's ultimately going

(11:35):
to make the decision. Bill has often said Devin is
the boss, but the fighter is always gonna want to
fight man, and a fighter that cuts down in weight
like that, that went through hell to get to one forty,
he's not gonna say scrap the fight.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
He's gonna You know, there's almost.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
A when you're trying to cut that much weight, there's
almost a madicness that takes hold of you because you're
so depleted, you're so ready, you're so rhymed. Like the
idea of canceling a fight, he doesn't even register with
you at that time. And obviously Devin was supremely confident
during that fight week. That's where I think Bill Haney
needed to be the manager, the trainer, and to some

(12:15):
extent the father. Bill Haney should have said, no fight,
three point two pounds is a big number that like
people can dismiss that. It's not I've heard like Robert Garcia,
we're gonna see this week, and I was watching a
YouTube clip of something he said.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
He's like, you're crazy.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
If you think three point two pounds is not a
massive amount of weight to in a fight like that.
Not attaching the rehydration clause was a miss like forcing
Ryan to suffer, like there was some leverage there the
Hainies had in that moment. Ryan Garcia wanted to get paid,
Golden Boy wanted to get paid. They didn't want to
go through all this for nothing. Not attaching a rehydration

(12:51):
clause I thought was a mistake. I thought there was
a level of arrogance on the Hany side that ultimately
wound up cost them.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Am I being unfair with that? Do you think? It's
hard to say, because like you can see exactly why
they felt that way, because we five minutes ago we
were talking about wholeheartedly believing that Ryan Garcia was not okay,
that they were going into the ring against a man
who was actively drinking all the way up to the
fight and was dealing was in the throes of mania. Like,

(13:25):
I can understand why they thought, don't worry about it.
I don't care that he's missing weight. We're gonna go
ahead with this fight. Obviously there's pressure to go through
with the fight too. If you play the tape back
and you knew everything that you know, now, yeah, they
could have said, no way, we're not going through the fight.
It's Barbosa stepping in. HAINI gets the win, and then
Garcia is painted as the the unprofessional bad guy, uh promotion.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
I've thought about that so many Like, you know, rewind
five days, six days, whatever it was to Friday afternoon.
How different would the conversation be if Devin Haney had
been like, you know what, you didn't make the weight.
If you're not gonna fight for one hundred and forty
pounds title, I'm not fighting you like it.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
You know, Ryan might have been finished.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
That might have been the end for him to like
to not make a weight in a fight of this importance,
you know, I get it. I just think that's where
Bill Haney should have had.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
A more level. Head.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
I don't expect Devin in that moment, David lelhead. Look,
I was messing with him all week long. I was
asking him about the weights, and look, if he blows
the weight, what's gonna happen? He said, you know what, whatever,
I'll take his money. That I'm not I'm gonna knock
him out. So clearly confidence in Devin Haney in that moment.
Bill Haney either needed to he needed to make a
better decision or have some more experience tell him like, hey,

(14:46):
not a good idea here. Look, I know you think
Ryan's crazy, but look Ryan is still powerful no matter
what you thought of where he was at mentally, he's
still a power puncher with one of the best left
hooks we have in boxing today, maybe the best left
hook in boxing.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I just.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Again, you're right, hindsight is twenty twenty. It's easy to
look back right now. But in that moment, the guy
that's purported to be the best manager in boxing, at
least he was last year, should have managed his client better.
Do you think, and I'm gonna follow this back at you,
do you think an element of this is Bill and
Tim Haney not like wanting to be the anti Tank,

(15:25):
because there is that kind especially over the last six
months or so, they've really kind of taken aim at
the Mayweather camp at Javonte Davis. And do you think
in the back of their mind they wanted to be
the guys that said, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Going to force Garcia into anything. We're gonna give him
whatever he wants, and we're still gonna beat him. Do
you think that they were motivated maybe by trying to
prove a point in that way, in thinking they were
gonna go through the fight, they're gonna get the win,
and hey, we beat him in a way the Tank didn't. Maybe.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
I just think that by Wednesday, when they got a
good look at Ryan and look, Ryan stood right next
to me in the ring at Gleason's gym, you knew
in that moment, and we talked about in that moment
he wasn't gonna make weight. He looked like a junior
middleweight on Wednesday cut down to one forty three and change.
You knew though he was not gonna make weight. I

(16:16):
just think they believed wholeheartedly at that point that there
was nothing Ryan Garcia could bring to the table that
that they couldn't deal with you know, I think they
believe they'd beat him down, they'd make him quit. Look,
and there was a time during that fight where I
thought that might actually happen. I mean, the first round
was the first round, great moment for Ryan Garcia, but
you get into the fifth and all of a sudden,
like this looks just like Regi's prograde, Like that's what

(16:37):
I think I said on that on the air, Like
this looks like Devin's walking him down. Landed a big
left hook in one of those rounds up, so I
can see that, you know where they came up with that,
But uh, it was it was too It was over confidence.
It was over confidence at the point of arrogance, and
it cost them in that fight.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, and again like to what degree is it forgivable? Though?
Like if all of us, if literally everyone was fooled
by this, why do they not get the same?

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Girl?

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Like I understand on the weight issue, I think that
you probably should have been firmer on that weight issue.
Although you know, one point five million dollars, assuming that
is true, is pretty you know whatever, I would have said,
you know, you know what, Like, but in that moment, Corey,
like you have so much leverage, like I would have
said a million dollars a pound, Like you want to
fight three million dollars, that's how much's gonna cost. What
what's the danger?

Speaker 4 (17:25):
Like?

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Look, and I'm I'm not a fighter. I didn't go
through an entire training camp to train for this, for
this big moment.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
But there's nothing that Devin Handy would not have faced
criticism if he backed out of that fight at that moment.
Three point two pounds is three point two pounds. I
said this in the air, and people I remember, certain
social media writers, certain writers write for certain publications, crapped
on me on the air for saying that Ryan Garcia

(17:52):
him missing weight on Friday, was disappointed, was unprofessional, but
it had nothing to do with how he was gonna
fight on Saturday. In fact, Ryan see it was probably
better off for blowing through that weight as a fighter
in the ring. You gotta know that. I just feel
like you gotta.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Know that if you're the trainer, the manager of the fighter,
and and again, look, it's easy for us sit here
and do it and Thursday morning quarterback.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
But that that's kind of where I'm.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
At with with with the Hainy side of all this
that they should have done more. Cancel rehidration clause, ask
for more month. I don't know what it would be,
you know, but they I think they should have done more.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
No, but you're right, I mean, because there's different ways,
there's different types of missing weight. And I've been thinking
about this too, because there's one, you know, there's one
instance in which you miss weaight and you you really
like you killed yourself trying to get down there and
you missweait. Obviously that's gonna have a deleterious effect on
your performance in the ring. Then there's this way, which

(18:49):
is just opting seemingly not to make way. Ryan Garcia
clearly knew he wasn't gonna make that way. It was
it was an option. And it brings to mind another
discussion too, because I haven't heard because I think that
we're were really caught up, obviously in how phenomenal that
performance was by Garcia and how shocking it was. And
I've been thinking about all the fighters throughout history that

(19:13):
have genuinely tried to make weight and haven't made weight.
And the immediate the pattern in immediate aftermath is number one.
You know, here come the out of shape and like
fat jokes generally about like one hundred and twenty two
pound fighters with like three percent body fat, and then
they're unprofessional they don't respect the sport. But here we
have and I'm you know, whether it's Ryan Garcia or whatever.

(19:37):
In the instance of someone whether it's Ryan or Floyd,
someone deliberately missing weight strategically, I don't hear unprofessionalism really
being tossed around all that much with it. It's just
like this genius tactic. But on the flip side, it's unprofessionalism.
Like if I had someone like put it in another realm,
if I had someone that was, you know, racing to

(19:59):
get to work and they were late and they showed
up late for work, or if I had someone that
called in and said, you know what, fuck it, I'm
coming in an hour late. Go ahead and take it
out of my paycheck. I don't care, I'm gonna come in.
Which employee would you label as being trustworthy and professional?
Not the latter? Right? Yeah? Is it interesting the way?

(20:20):
And I think it's just because it was so wacky
and so fascinating that we just we don't feel like
having that discussion. It's not fun.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean, to me, a lesson should have been
learned from the Corrals Castillo two fight. You know, Kralos
Castile one one of the greatest fights in recent boxing history.
This the rematch Castillo blueweight by three and a half pounds,
and the fourth round of that fight, he knocked Corrals cold. Now,
maybe he does that regardless, but maybe not having to
shrink your way down to one point thirty five deplete

(20:48):
yourself gave him a little bit more when he got
into the ring and able to land that type of shot.
That's always gonna be a great what if when it
comes to this fight. While all that being said, this
fight needs a rematch. I don't know how many times
we have to say it. I don't know if we
have to scream it from the heavens. This the best
fight for both these guys in their next fight, maybe

(21:09):
one fight in between whatever is going again. That's why
I was disappointed to see Oscar de la Hoya on
Devin Haney's Instagram, I guess saying that there was not
gonna be a rematch between Haiti and Garcia.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
That doesn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean, look, I don't know what the pay per
view buys were for the first fight. I genuinely don't,
but whatever they were, they're probably gonna be three times
bigger the second time around, because look, the fight was
great in the ring, it was compelling, it was a
buzz of social media, were talking about it for days afterwards.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
But that doesn't matter when it comes to pay per view.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
What matters what people think it's gonna be right, and
nobody believed going to that fight it was gonna be competitive.
The odds went from eight to one, nine to one,
ten to one in favorite Devin Handy. When you see that,
you're not inclined to press the buy button and spend
seventy seventy five eighty bucks whatever it was for that fight.
The rematch massive number. I think the rematch could push

(22:02):
a million pay per view bys if promoted properly, if
done in the right location, I think the rematch could
do a million pay per view buys. I can't see
a fight out there for either one of them that
does that. I mean, Ryan's, you know, talking about junior middleweights.
Now he's talking about Sebastian Mondora. I know we're gonna
talk about Sebastian Mundoora in a minute, but he's talking
about Aero Spence because of the Derk James stuff. Look,

(22:24):
he's gonna move up to welterweight.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
We know that.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
What's kind of sexy in the welterweight division. He's clearly
not gonna fight Bouttennis. We saw the look in his
father's face when Eddie Hearn brought that up, which I
don't disagree with part of that. Connor Ben kind of
interested me a little bit, I guess. But Haini Garcia too,
is a huge event that both these guys should be

(22:48):
instructing their teams to make sooner rather than later.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
This one was a huge I agree. I think that
the rematch is the fight to do. And who knows
what Oscar is thinking. Maybe he's suggesting that there isn't
gonna be a rematch to try and get some kind
of like negotiating leverage or something. Who knows, But I
think that this is the fight to make. I think
you run it right back. And even in this one,
even with all of like the doubt about, you know,
the seeming certainty that this wasn't gonna be competitive, when

(23:14):
you got there, when you were in the arena, it
felt like a big fight. The energy in the arena
felt different. Our live stream, like the Undercard on YouTube,
did one point five million views. You know, that's an
astronomical number for a lot of card. It's a lot
of people that are curious about the fight. On fight night,

(23:35):
It's gonna say a lot of Curguy Derevin Shanko fans,
I would imagine, so right Ukraine stand a lot of
Von Alexander fans, a lot of I think the buzz.
The buzz was big, and I think a buzz even
this time, So think about it the second time.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
And look, I love New York City. I would like
to see more fights in New York City. This to
me feels like a Vegas fight. You do it again,
you do it a T mobile, MGM, Grand whatever. In Vegas,
I think you sell out that building in a heartbeat
and it's a major event.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, and look, it could have hit a different level
in New York and the way that I know that
it can. I didn't see any bootleg T shirts being
sold on the sus That's how you know a level.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
And look, to be honest, I think Ryan owes it
to Devon. I do look, Devin is responsible for Devon.
He agreed to take the fight. The money was transferred,
however much that was, so it's not cheating like I've
seen some people suggest.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Devon agreed to it. He got in the ring. What
happened happened.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
But you know, if you're Ryan Garcia, you know you
kind of did Devin Haney what Tank Davis did to you,
Like you handicapped him a little bit, right. Devon struggled
to get down to one forty. You didn't, and you
reaped the benefits of it in the ring. I think
to a degree, Corey he owes Devon a rematch.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, but you know, in his new character as this
like devious mastermind, does he care that he owes anyone anything?
I don't know, probably not.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
But you know, I also don't think there's a market
for Sean O'Malley in a crossover type of fight.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, probably not. Although shout out to Sean O'Malley. I
did go to his Cold Plunge place in Phoenix's that's
really good information that I'm sure there you go go
check it out, the Art of Recovery in Phoenix, Arizona.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Maybe he goes up to welter Way. There's not a
lot of big names there. Maybe Devin Hante doesn't want
an immediate rematch. There's the mandatory against Sando Martin out there,
which is challenging in different ways, but not one that
you can expect to take any kind of punishment in,
so to speak. So maybe there's a fight for him
in between. But by this time next year, we got

(25:31):
to see the rematch.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
We got to see it.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
That's too good a fight. A hell if Devin wins trilogy,
bring it on. That's one of the things I love
about these guys fighting at this point in their careers
twenty five years old to two of them. It sets
up multiple fights down the rude. Too often we get
Paquiel Maywe at the very end, Spence Crawford at the
very end. We got these guys just hitting their physical

(25:53):
prime where you can easily see them having multiple fights,
big fights that could define their careers. So I hope
we get some of that.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
All right.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
So this week I was in New York for the
announcement of the first RIODD season card in the US.
Turkey Ala Chic and the Saudi officials responsible for RIODD
season are moving the show into Southern California in Los Angeles,
and they're leading off with a big fight in the
junior middleweight division. Terrence Crawford number one pound for pound,

(26:25):
We'll take on Israel Madramoff at the top of that card.
Madro of course a one hundred and fifty four pound
title hold. The rest of the card, Corey is insane.
You have got Virgil Lortiz going up against Tim zu
It's assuming that Rotez gets through Thomas DeLorme this week,
and Andy Ruiz Durell Miller that's crossover heavyweight fight, Isa
Cruz against Jose Valenzuela.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
That's a good fight. At one point.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Andy Cruz is on that card. David Morrel is on
that card. It's just fully loaded top to bottom. And
this is kind of continuation of what the Audi's are
trying to do, not just put on an event with
a big main event, but putting on events that have
a whole bunch of fights on it that could be
their own main event on some level.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, it is raising the bar for everyone else because
almost all of those fights that you just mentioned in
a normal world could headline a broadcast on his own
on ESPN on almost anywhere else like basically, with the
exception of Andy Cruz, Antonio Moran. You could place any
of those fights in a main event somewhere and it
would feel acceptable. And so I'm wondering kind of like

(27:33):
what this More so than I'm wondering kind of like
what is the end game of you know, Saudi involvement
in American cards, is like what will this do for
the industry at large? Does this again raise the bar?
Does this make other promoters try and match like that
level of talent on a card or is it just

(27:55):
assumed that this is at a price point that most
people can't or don't want to men and you just
can't do that. That's that's kind of where you go
to bring your fighters to get the big payday. But
otherwise it's business as usual. I'm curious about what standard
this sets for the sport. Yeah, I think it's it's
a positive that these fights are taking place in the US,

(28:19):
these types of cards are in the US because as
great as the Day of Reckoning was and the Fury
and Ghanu show was, and the Joshuan Ghanu show was,
because of their location and because of the time zones, like,
the audience wasn't big, it wasn't and it was never
going to be big because it's really difficult to get

(28:40):
a US audience to tune in to a fight at
five o'clock in the afternoon and even and the live
audience has a very different vibe that just doesn't resonate
with the the North American viewer quite the same. Exactly
like this fight in LA.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
You're gonna have Crawford fans there, but you're gonna have
is Sakkruz fans there. We saw many fans he drew
to Vegas for his last fight. You're gonna have Andy Ruiz,
Durell Miller type fans there. You're gonna have a lot
of fans of different types that are going to probably
sell out that stadium August in LA. That's pretty nice
night to go out and watch boxing. So I think

(29:16):
that's that's the development of all this that I think
is the most positive is that we're having these fights
in the US, These mega cards are taking place on
US soil where you know they have a chance to
have a greater level of exposure. And look, I love
the Crawford Madromoff fight. Like Madromoff probably was not on
the top of Crawford's list six months ago when he

(29:37):
was calling out Canelo, and he was looking at Tim
Zou and then maybe he was gonna fight Sebastian Vandora.
All those things fell by the wayside. So now he
gets Madromoff, who.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Is really freaking good, like really good, decorated amateur, just
had a one sided destruction in his last fight against
what Maga Mt Kerbanoff to win his world title.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
You know, Crawford's first fight at one fifty four, This
won't be easy, Corey.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
No, it's not a cake walk, and if it is,
it speaks to how great we think Terrence Crawford is.
You know, he's he's a special operator. And if he
can dominate Modromov, even though Madromov may not be a
big name to a lot of people, it may not
resonate with the casual audience. If if he goes in
there and destroys Modramov, it will mean something to the

(30:27):
hardcore fans as well. And it's it's listen. It's a
fascinating entry point to a new division for him. And
it also gives Crawford, uh, the opportunity really to have
this kind of like mega show, you know, a stadium
show where he's the headliner, which is something that he
hasn't He's he hasn't yet had the opportunity to do.

(30:49):
But as the top pound for pound fighter in the sport,
arguably is if if boxing were a meritocracy, that's what
you deserve, right and and so in comes this entity
that makes it so, and in that regard that that's
obviously a positive.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, I think madromov Is is a good opponent, right,
Like he's well trained, He's part of that. Antonio Diaz,
Joel Diaz camp I favorite Crawford going into the fight,
but uh, when I think of the toughest tests of
Crawford's career, it's probably.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Gonna be right up there. It's probably right up there.
The madrov is twenty nine years old. He is a
career long junior middleweight. There are not the questions around
him that there were Aerol Spence for example, in his
last fight, or guys like you know, Julius and Dongo
at one and some of the other guys that Jeff
Horn like, they were not He wasn't limited in that way.
He's a really really talented fighter, strong fighter, heavy handed.

(31:41):
It's gonna be a great fight headlining that card. The
fight though I'm kind of sneaky. Most excited about though,
is this Ortiz Zoo fight. Like this is like we
say this lost kind of a cliche, but Rock'm soccer
robot that that's kind of what what I feel like.
That fight is going to devolve to Tim Zuo. We know,
you know, top level guy at one fifty four pro
probably would have won that fight against the baste Mondor

(32:02):
if his head doesn't explode in the end of the
second round.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
And for T's it's a big jump for him going
into a fight like this. Look, he's gonna have his
second fight at one fifty four on Saturday night. I
don't think it's a stretch to say that he's probably
gonna do well against Thomas de Lorrim. But Thomas de
Lormi his best days came at like one forty and
then he fought at one forty seven.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Like Virgil.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Ortiz is going to go into that fight against Tim
Zuo having never fought a legit one fifty four, And
that's reason to be concerned, because Tim Zu was not
just legit one fifty four. But you're making a list
of the top guys that division. Before that Fendora fight,
he was probably at or near the top.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, there were people arguing there was number one, you know,
and and if not for that head clash, maybe people
would still be saying that, right, I think they would.
He was landing some shots, Yeah, of course, you know,
you and I talked about it on the podcast here
that like, going into that fight, I assumed that he
was going to knock out Flendora, and my mind really
wasn't changed until that blood really started gushing. It definitely

(33:03):
changes the dynamic of this weekend's fight for Ortiz, not
just because the stakes are different, but because there is
something dangling there that Ortiz needs to get to. It
means he needs to get out of this fight quickly
and utterly unscathed. And so if there were blast out
of their well, because there may have been the idea
of this other fight weren't on the schedule, Virgil Ortiz

(33:25):
fought like you know, half around in like three years.
You know, maybe you mess it. You know, he's fighting
a guy that used to be a sparring partner. You know,
they know one another. Maybe you get some rounds in
and whatnot. I don't think that's the case at all anymore.
I think that Virgil is out for destruction against Alorme
because he has to. It's necessity at this point. But
I love this fight between Ortiz and Zoo, not just

(33:48):
because just stylistically it's a good fight, but because of
how it was made too, just a respectful call out
from Ortiz basically Spider Man meaning seeing guy that that
behaves and fights like him and saying, I want to
fight that guy because I see a little bit of
myself and him, and it's gonna be a wicked fight.
That's awesome. You know, That's like I wish that would

(34:10):
that would happen more often. And you know, kudos to
to Virgil Ortiz for understanding where he's at in his career,
understanding that he has some time to make up and
making those moves to make up for that time.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
And this is another fight that I don't think happens
without uh Turkey Ala Chic Saudi Arabia's involvement, because look,
Tim Zou is not a PBC fighter, but he's fought
a lot of PBC cards over the last couple of years.
Virgil orts obviously Golden Boy aligned with the Zone. It
was crazy Cory being at that press conference in New

(34:42):
York seeing all the people that are often that are
rarely in the same room, in the same room, Like
I'm like saying hello to Louis de Cubas while passing.
Eddie Hearn Sehn Gibbons is there and Keith Conley's walking
alongside him, like promoters, managers, fighters that rarely if ever
find themselves on the same cards are now mixed together

(35:04):
and for the right fights in a big event.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Rio season is like the like the capit Bera of box,
everyone just sort of gathers around and gathers around, brings
up together and puts on good fight. But I think
the artiz I was gonna steal the show. I think
that is going to be uh a war on August third.
I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
I have to say this though about this card, and
again I love the card. The sanctioning bodies have glombed
their way on to this card, and they have glommed
their way on to a lot of things over the
last couple of days and weeks. So the Crawford Madromov
fight is for the WBA title. Madromovhones perfectly fine. Madramuff

(35:45):
has the belt. He's the real champion Crawfords gonna fight.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
For it now.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
The WBO has attached the interim belt to that fight.
I mean Sebastian Fandora's like nose is still crooked, Like
can we give the guy a minute to heal before
we hand on interim title in his weight class? That
that was insane. The zoo Ortez fight is going to
be for the WBA interim title. Love Virgil not fought

(36:14):
a one P fifty four yet, Like, what what is
that all about? Like the WBA jumping in to try
to collect a sanctioning fee on that fight. Uh, nothing
to do with that card. But I also noticed that
the WBC has sanctioned Adrian Bronner Blair Cobbs for the
WBC's People's Championship, whatever the fuck that is. The WBA,

(36:37):
on that same card sanctioned Michael Hunter cash as Cheney
for its interim heavyweight title. Meanwhile, on May eighteenth, the
undisputed championship is going to be resolved in Riadde, Saudi Arabia.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Let me just throw another one out there, because I've
got a whole list of things so I can't hit.
I was just like, it's all, it's all coming all
in one and this I found out in New York
last week. David Morrell Canelo's mandatory for like three years, right,
he had that goal the regular championship for a number
of years. Now he moves up to one seventy five,
and in that moment, the WBA decides to make Edgar
Berlanga Canelo's mandatory, calls him the mandatory. What happened with

(37:17):
Dave Morrell was the the quote unquote mandatory, the next
to the champion or whatever. But what what are we
doing with what these like?

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I I enjoy everything that the Saudis are doing to
to put these kind of cards on. I would love
it if they do a card that has no sanctioned
belts on the line, have the Ring Magazine championship on
the line wherever it's applicable, everything else, screw screw it.
Do not let them involve themselves. All they are doing

(37:47):
is taking money out of people's pockets for titles that
for the most part are not real, like these are
not real belts, interim belts, uh an interury to stop
doing it, stop stop taking stop allowing these guys to
infiltrate the sport because they are dragging it down Corey.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
They yeah, and and but they remain These titles remain
tempting to promoters and to entities that are putting on
events because they still they still mean something to someone.
And and particularly I think for the casual fans.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Have an interim title on the line on the same
and the WBC this a few weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
The interim WBA one hundred and fifty four pound title
is on the line on the same card, Like moments
before the main belt is being fought for, the interim
belt will be handled. It just someone who was willing
to pay the sanctioning feed. And you know, some of
these don't surprise me, Like the the interim WBA heavyweight

(38:47):
title has basically belonged to Don King for like fifteen years.
Like a lot of WBA weirdness runs right through Don King,
So that doesn't shock me at all. Like, but they're
being like the People's champion belt, But I mean, obviously
that's that's just for Adrian Broner of all people. Is

(39:07):
he the people's champion. But the funny thing is funny
thing is I kind of sneaky, Like that fight, that's
a fun fight, fun build up as well. Yeah, a
lot of trash talk, like two guys that are fringy
kind of contenders. The winner will probably get himself into
a decent fight. I actually don't mind the Hunter cash
a Cheney fight either. I think I actually like Kasher Cheney.
For a long time, Who's the main events had at

(39:29):
least one setback, and Hunter has been the only lost
on Michael Harry's career. As to to.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Ou sick, right, yeah, I mean he deserves like big fights.
It just stop attaching dumb titles to this, like.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
I yeah, yeah, but yeah exactly. But I mean it'll again,
it'll be a fun build up with the with Broner
and Cobbs. Won't be as fun as if we had
about billions on YouTube. But the uh, the consolation prizes
that we get Adrian Broner on Inside Camp, Cunningham on YouTube,
that's the new reality series.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
He got to watch that if it's excellent. He is
listening to the podcast. The let's start. Let's let's start
cleaning up the sport by getting the sanctioning bodies out.
They are just parasites on this sport. I cannot handle
the things that they're doing. All right, last thing, the
big fight we have this week. In the main event,
Jose Ramirez against Rancis Barthelomey. Ramirez, of course a former

(40:21):
unified champion at one forty, Barthelmy had a built at
one thirty. Barthelome On paper looks like a bit of
a mismatch, but Barthelemy, look you look at the box treck.
The Gary Antoine Russell fight ended by knockout, but he
watched the fight back and he was tough on Russell
for a while, and you know, a lot of people
thought that knockout was questionable, say the least that the

(40:42):
stoppage was was premature. But in his next fight, you know,
he might have gotten a gift decision. It's omar Warez.
So you don't really know what you're gonna get with Barthelemy.
But how do you see kind of this fight shaken out?

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, it's it's interesting. I think that there's a version
of Jose Ramirez, the one that we saw against Maurice Hooker,
that I think could really do a number on the
present day version of Rancis Barthelemy if that one shows up.
But then there's a more recent version of Jose Ramirez
that you know hasn't been quite as intense, hasn't been

(41:16):
quite as dogged in his pressure in the ring and
reading between the lines. Robert Garcia said that with a
new contract, he used the word he's re energized, which,
you know, maybe I'm reading into this too much, but
kind of is confirming some of the suspicions I think
a lot of observers have had about Ramirez over the
last couple of fights, not that he wasn't motivated, but

(41:38):
just didn't seem to have the same moxie in the
ring that we saw out of unified champion Jose Ramirez.
So we'll see if a more intense version of Jose
Ramirez shows up in this fight. Historically, Rancis Barthelmy he
can just make fights weird and tricky sometimes. And if
there's a if there's a Jose Ramirez in the ring

(42:01):
on Saturday night that is applying pressure at like sixty
five and seventy percent speed, Rantis Barthelemy knows how to
make that a like hideous seven to five type fight
with some wacky scorecards. We're in to sell it. Corey,
he split it. That's what he's done throughout his career.
Like there's a way that that happens, idiots seven, It's like,

(42:22):
there's a way that that happened. There's also a version
of this fight that could be an absolute banger, and
that's the one that I'm hoping for. But tell him,
he's got a history of some tactics too that I've
seen over the years, swinging his head around a little bit.
It's got a low blow. That Mendez fight ended when
a couple of punches after the bell. He's had like
five wins too, at least five wins that a lot

(42:43):
of people thought could have or should have gone the
other way. Like he is a historically fortunate fighter. Yeah,
that doesn't mean that he could have won all those fights.
I'm saying that, like he's got the benefit of the
doubt each and every time. Is there.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
You know, Ramira is the house fighter here. We're in
Fresno because Amira is gonna sell out save mart Center
does a big crowd. I think there's a lot of
pressure on Ramirez to get some of that mojo back,
to get his swagger back, because you know, look, the
facts are the facts. He's had multiple opportunities to fight

(43:19):
for a world title over the last few years and
not taken them. Now, his reasons are his reasons, and
some of them are good. You know, did not take
the fight against Josees paid it because he was getting married.
I can understand that. You know, your personal life, you know,
it comes first. But then there was the whole deal
with Regi's program. We passed on that fight because he

(43:40):
wasn't going to get his minimum with Top rank. And
then the bigger deal was the more recent one where
you know, according to Top Rank, they offered him two
million dollars to fight Tafy Molpez. They offered him seven
hundred and fifty thousand dollars in a comeback fight. He
would have also had to sign an extension as part
of that. But that's a lot of money to fight
for world title, you know, and that's a winnable fight.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Theoretically for Jose A Ramirez. So I think that.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
The the the pressure might be the wrong word, but
like they're the there are questions now about Jose Aramrez
and what does he want. Like Jose is currently the
number four contender in the WBO for the belt owned
by Tea Fimo, So theoretically he's trying to work his
way up the rankings for the fight that he passed
on this past year. So I mean, I think that

(44:30):
there's there's a lot of pressure on Jose to not
just win this fight convincedly we then get back in
the ring three months or later and start to get
some momentum back.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, I think that there's maybe the feeling amongst some
like you know, Ramirez is almost like this sounds too extreme,
but it's almost like he's kind of like the previous
generation of the contenders at one four, like there's there
are new guys that have surpassed him. And I think
that he's only thirty one too. He's only thirty one,
and and with a performance, uh, an exciting performance and

(44:59):
and and a convincing one on Saturday, I think he
can erase those doubts. And I think that he places
himself firmly back in that conversation and then we see
how he navigates that now that he's on this side
of the street on his own and with a new promoter.
But you know, ultimately, you know, I don't know Jose
Ramirez all that well. We're gonna have a chance to
sit down with him, you know, tomorrow. But also like

(45:21):
he's always been a guy obviously with you know, more
worldly aspirations. And it does make sense when you see
when you when you put Jose Ramirez in that framework
where you know, like their fights that he's just gonna
pass up because there are other things that he cares
about in this world too, and and for other fighters
they wouldn't have turned those down. Jose Amirez like he

(45:43):
has other things going on too, you know, so like
what how is that applicable to this? I mean just
that it's like I still fighting, like he is still fighting,
but that like maybe he's not fighting. Isn't one hundred
percent of his world, is what I'm saying, And so
you know, yeah, if there is a little bit of

(46:03):
apathy with taking fights sometimes like maybe he just yeah,
he's focused on other things. I don't know. I haven't
had a chance to talk to him until tomorrow, and
maybe I'll get some of those answers I get. If
you're gonna fight, though, fight, you know, if you're gonna
get back in the ring, you know, maybe look, maybe
a year from now, we're both gonna sit here and
be like, wow, he made the right move. He maybe four.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Million dollars to fight ta Femo or fight whoever maybe
fights Ryan Garcia in his next fight. I mean, I'm
sure that's what a lot of guys at Golden Boy
are wondering right now. Are they gonna be in next
in line to fight Ryan? But right now, like in
terms of the one hundred and forty pounds vision, the
likeliest next fight for Jose Ramirez is probably like Arnold Barbosa,
Like they're.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Both signed with Golden Boy.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Barboza number one with the WBO, Ramirez, I said number four.
I don't really, I don't quite get the thinking. I
don't quite get the path forward here, because yeah, look
a bad loss to taf Fimo would be a pretty
big setback. But if you have a comeback fight for
seven and fifty grand, like, I don't know, I don't know,
but to me, I'll.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Have to again, I'll ask the same questions Fred exactly. Yeah,
you're very curious. Figure all that out as well.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
All right, Corey will be on the mic Saturday Live
on his own Ramirez Bartholomy or Tease against the lorm.
I also have a good women's title fight Marlinasparza against
Gabrielle Ellenize, the rematch of a fight from last year's
check it out Saturday Night live on his own.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Corey always appreciate it man anytime, and I promised, even
if it's a dreadful seven to five fight, I'll try
and make it exciting.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Okay, Sergio will too. And when we come back. My
conversation with Robert Garcia, Robert Garcia is here, who I
think on Saturday's card is training thirty seven of the
fighters on this card.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Roberts that about right?

Speaker 4 (47:42):
You know what, we have three guys that I'm training,
but I'm also we also have a I think the
first fight Fiegel, who's whose school comes with uh from
Dallas with with Virgio, so I'm also gonna help him out.
We're gonna be basically you don't want. A few years back, uh,
we had a Top Right had a card at the

(48:03):
Top Hub where Nonito Donaire was the coming event and
Brandon Rio's fight out Verado. On that card there was
nine fights total and eight fights were my fight, so
we had the whole hundred card. We had Nano and
a bunch of guys on that car. So yeah, that
was probably the busiest I've ever been.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Is it a good thing to have that many guys
you prefer to have one guy and just focus on him.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
At this magnitude of the fight, where jose A Meirez
and Virgil both big names, big stars, they need to
have their own cards. This was a great opportunity for
Virgio to come back right after his one round knock
cart in January. If we didn't do this, he probably
wouldn't fight to August thirty. If you know, that offer,

(48:47):
you know, was already there. So this was perfect for
Virgio to come back, especially after just getting lesson around. Uh.
We'll get a few rounds here and uh and that'll,
you know, give him a little more. I need, I
need to be active. So that's why we we decided
to put him on this card. Rig Morigan was able
to pull it up with Golden Boy, and that's the
reason we're here. You know. Then Oscar Dart that caused me,

(49:08):
I want to come join your team. I said, you
know what, We're gonna need him for sparring, and he's
also gonna help us with Jovanni something and a bunch
of guys that we have. So it's it's it turned
up perfect and all three in the you know, there's
gonna be the last three fights on me. So you know,
I'm already preparing everything, the timing. I'm gonna hand wrap
the hands and everything, so you know, just it's gonna

(49:31):
be part of the job, you know, part of the world.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
It's gonna change a lot of T shirts during the
course of that different T shirts every single fight. I
want to ask you about your three guys at the
top of the bill. But the boxing world is still
kind of buzzing over the Ryan Garcia Devin Haney fight.
As we're Monday morning quarterbacking it. We're looking back and
wondering should Devin Haney have done anything different at the
way and should he have walked away from the fight?

(49:54):
Should he have hit Ryan Garcia with a rehydration limit.
It's easy to sit here and do it now, But
if you were in Devn's corner for that fight, and
Ryan misses weight by three point two pounds, what would
your recommendation have been.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
I would have at least put up a rehydration claus
because see the magnitude of the fight, you know, to
say I'm not fighting, which he had all the right
to do it, even myself as the trainer. The fighter
already went through training camp. He already went through two
or three months of hard work. It's hard to say
we're walking away because it's just a big fight, big payday.

(50:32):
Everything's already done, the promotion, so the undercart's already there.
So it's hard to say, no, I'm not going to fight.
So at least the rehydration class where you know you
can the day of the fight or the as you
walk into the to the arena, you can weigh more
than X amount of pounds. I think that's what they
should have done. But I think, you know, I think,

(50:55):
just like the whole boxing world, they were so confident,
so sure the fires going to be turned out easy,
that they didn't care. You know, I go back and
I compare it to Lomchenko versus Salilo. I think I
know personally, I know lo Machenko, and I know how
sure they were of that win and clean us no problem.

(51:15):
That's gonna be an easy fight, easy win, and look
at the results. I think this the same thing happened
with the Haini's. I think it's a learning experience for them.
They should have done something about it. Like I said,
it's hard to say I'm gonna cancel the fight because
the fight's already there. It's already a big event. You know,
it would have been really bad if they had all
the right to do it, but it would have been

(51:36):
really bad. So at least the rehydrationing class.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
How big a difference do you think the weight made
on fight night?

Speaker 4 (51:43):
Big difference? You know. I know a lot of people
are already saying, well, Ryan was heavier the day of
the fight. I mean, Hani was heavier the day of
the fight. But that doesn't you know. I'm a trainer,
I'm a former fighter. I know how hard it is
to cut weight, and especially the last two or three
pounds or the hardest. Every fighter goes through how to

(52:04):
make to make that cut weight. And Hanny did that
and Ryan didn't. So there is a big difference.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Does it. You know, if they meet on a level
playing field, you think it's a different outcome.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
I think it's a fight that heaven could Devin, Hanny
could win. We could get the same results because of
Ryan's speed and power, and if Hanny doesn't do any changes,
if he doesn't prepare for that, because it seemed like
they just didn't have a game, like he just got
hit by those left folks over and over. I really

(52:38):
don't know what went wrong, but if he makes those corrections,
I think for him, you know, I know they've done
so great, they've done it their way. Him and his
dad always done it their way, and they've been so
successful and got away with it for so many years
and so many fights that they're comfortable doing that, and
they could continue to that. But I think it's maybe
time for them to add something or somebody to their

(53:02):
camp where they're gonna bring something new, something different. I
would recommend that maybe join a team, a camp where
they're gonna get they're not the main guys, where they're
not the stars, where where nobody's there because because of them,
where they're there, because every the gym is full of great,
great work, great sparring. That's probably what he what I

(53:23):
would recommend. You know that obviously none of my business,
but that's what I would recommend. But I think there
could be a really in a rematch, the result could
be different, And.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Ironically that's exactly what happened with Oscar Duarte, who lost
to Ryan Garcia back in December, decides he needs another
voice and comes to you. What was your reaction when
you got the phone call from Duarte's team about training him.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
You know what, the first thing that came to my
mind was his style. I've done it before. I did
it with my Dinna. I've done it, you know where
where fighters are already coming off alas coming to me
to see if I could give them the new just
a new life, and and and and that's why I
took the challenge. I also right away one forty one

(54:06):
thirty five, right away, I took advantage of how much
sparring I'm gonna get in my gym. You know, Raymond
Murdataya also needs work when he fights, you know, Uh,
you know Jose obviously, you know, there's just so much
work we could get in my gym with uh, with uh,
with so I knew I wasn't gonna fail. I knew
I was going to be busy with Jose and Virgil,

(54:27):
but I knew he was going to be in the
mix with the sparring, with everything around around them them too,
So there were all three were pretty much training around
the same time. Virgil would be sparring in one ring,
and then once Virgil's done, we go to the next
room with Jose and Duarte. Same thing, because you know
it was pretty much they They kind of got the
same sparing partners throughout throughout camp.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
What what do you think you can add to Duarte
who was really successful leading up to that Garcia fight
and then you know, get stopped at his moments in
that fight. But what what have you been trying to
add to his game?

Speaker 4 (54:59):
You know what? I can't. I don't want to change
his style because that'd be a big mistake for me.
I just didn't want him to let go of his
hands a little more combinations. His shoulders are too tight,
and I think in this fight, you guys will see
him putting combinations together where he doesn't have to throw
every punch hard. I even though he's so strong that
every punch is hard, but he doesn't have to try

(55:23):
to do it. He's gonna He's gonna do combinations, three,
four or five punch combinations to a point where where
breaking him down little by little and not one punch
at a time. That's that's what he looks for. He
knows he hits hard, and he loves to to throw
that hard punch, but especially against somebody like Jojo, who's
very fast, pretty slick, could be could be a good counterpuncher.

(55:43):
We have to throw combinations and not one punch at
a time, is there.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
I mean you and I talked about this briefly before,
but against Ryan, one thing that was kind of exposed
was he kind of has to see the target before
he throws Punch's why Ryan kept moving a lot in
that fight. Is that kind of what you're talking about
is let your hands go.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Don't worry about being fully positioned before you throw these punches.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
Exactly. You know when when when when a fighter hits
hard and throws and throws one punch at the time,
he's landing, he's learning, he's throwing, he's going for just
that one punch to land at a certain place. I'm
you know, we're trying to throw three four punch combinations.
It doesn't matter where they land. I tell them, if
they land in the and the elbows, in the hand,
and the ribs wherever it's gonna hurt, and the ears,
and you know, wherever, wherever they're in the head, wherever

(56:26):
those punches land, they're gonna hurt it. It's that kind
of power. So you're gonna throw three, four or five
punch combinations, not aiming at a certain start. You know,
I even't told him, I don't want you to straight
at the head at the shoulders, and you know they'll land,
and you know wherever they land, they're gonna be, they're
gonna be solid punches.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
So the co main event of the show Saturday is
virginalti Is. You're back with Virgis.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
You trained him all the way up until his win
over Vegas Cavloscis and he decided to go in a
different direction after that. Were you disappointed that he did that?
You know, because you there was a lot of success,
undefeated record, all knockouts.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
How did you feel when he decided to lead?

Speaker 4 (57:06):
You know what, it's part of boxing. It's happened before,
it happened. It happens. He's not you know, it's not
the first time that happened in my gym. It happened
earlier in his when he was with Joe Diaz and
came to me. You know, Uh, Josetra made as well
with Freddie Roach and came to me. So you know,
it's not it's not like it's the first time that
happens to me. When when a fighter leaves, I've had

(57:27):
fighters come from other trainers too, you know, what I
like to do when Joe ordias that we we always
talk about it with him and manage it. Roblez us
three Southern California trainers. You know, we have a good
communication where something like that happens, a fighter goes to
them and or vice versa. We talked to each other.
We're gonna continue doing this. We're gonna need each We're

(57:48):
gonna need each other for for a reason or another
sparring or whatever it is. That's what we we have
to maintain that, that relationship and and we keep it
like that. I was you know, did it hurt because
Virgil is a from you know, before he got sick,
everything looked like he's the future superstar everything. You know,

(58:09):
it did It did hurt a little, but it's part
of the sport. It's it's just there's no no surprise
to that. I was okay well, and we still kept
a good relationship, you know, even though even though they
were training with many dollars, you know, we were always
in communication. I I flew to Dallas when when I
learned about him being sick and what happened to him
before you know, his last fight. I flew to Dallist

(58:31):
myself just to go visit him, spend time with him
and the dad. You know, we drove around, went to
his house. You know, I just want to I want
to see how he was doing health health wise. He
told me a lot of things about that he didn't
never thought he would have to do. Went back to school,
started getting college classes because he thought his career could
be over. So, you know, just a lot of things

(58:52):
that that went through his life and also us, you know,
not having him around. You know, it was it did
hurt a little, but it's like I said it, I
wasn't mad about it because it's part of the sport.
It happens with with with other fighters. It's happened before.
You know, it's not the first or last time that
we're gonna see something like that.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Do you think he has a handle on these health issues?
Because it was the rapedi in myalysis first, then you know,
collapsing before the STANDIONI is fire, which he says has
nothing to do with the rabdough. But it's still one
health issue after another over the last few years that
have slowed his career down. Do you feel like he has,
you guys, have a handle on all these issues.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
You know what we we we don't see it because
I fight also, So I think that's what that's that's
the difference, uh, and and and and and everybody in
camp that I also fight. I was a professional fighter.
I've been through that. I've I've been through cutting weight
and have and and getting up and waking up you

(59:52):
know a few seconds later, because it's just the way
it happened, the way it happens when you're dehydrating and
you're not drinking water. Boxers go through that a lot,
you know, it happens to them. So I've been through that.
I think that's what. That's what what's been helping a
lot that I know when the fighter maybe you know,
we're thinking of one day doing ten rounds and I
don't see the what I want to see, and we

(01:00:15):
cut it at six and and that helps, you know,
if it's run, run a little bit less today because
tomorrow you're gonna probably be hard. I think all that
is something that's really helping him with his career. I know, Uh,
he's a hard working kid. He trains so hard, you know,
in the gym, to a point where yeah, you know
today you don't have to do that much. He you know,

(01:00:36):
the last couple of fights that we've been doing together
since he came back, and he's you know, he's he's
been listening. Charles trem is also a great person in
camp because he's he's he's actually a doctor, and he
knows everything that goes on. We we communicated with Victory
content we uh, we send him blood work, and he
made a lot of changes when when he got Virgil's

(01:00:58):
blood work the first when he first came back to
camp with me, Victor Conte told us, good thing you
guys did that, you know, send me his bead work,
or else he wouldn't have he wouldn't have made it
through camp, you know. So there's a lot of things
before the loss in fight or this, no, this before
his last night he came with me, Yeah, this is
your first fight back first. Yeah, so we we so

(01:01:18):
Victor contest started communicating with Charros to where you know,
he sent us over a few things oxygen tanks and
stuff like that. So we start doing every day. So
all that we added all that, and uh and and
and and we haven't seen any you know, he's been doing.
You know, he was under under one today obviously one
fifty four is where we want him to get a

(01:01:40):
Tori fight, and both both both times right before he
steps into the scale when he's already you know, already
on weight. I asked him, how do you feel, do
you think two more pounds is something that you could
do for the future, and and clearly tells me, no problem,
I'll do him. He's walking around, he's not you know,

(01:02:01):
he's thirsty and killed himself to make weight. But he's talking,
he's you know, so I see that two pounds he
could do plus I asked him. I asked him, and
he says, no problem, I'll do two more pounds, So
I think one will.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Be So you're preparing for this fight against Thomas DeLorme,
but it is revealed this week that assuming this fight
goes well, it is Virgil Ortiz tim Zu on August.
The three is part of a huge card out in
Los Angeles, when like the Saudi's, they move fast, so
you probably don't get the information.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Once you get the information, you got to make a
decision on it. When this was first presented to you
as Virgil's next fight, were you for it? Were you
a little bit uncertain about it?

Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
How did you feel we were always for it as
soon as we heard about it. You know. It's funny
because when I got to the gym in the morning,
they had already called Virgil you know obviously Rick and yeah,
but you know, so just don't already knew about it
the night before because I know a lot of people
in boxing too, and with it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
They can't keep a secret.

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
In boxtly call him from New York a Robert, this
was going on, so and so and whatever, whatever, whatever.
I'm like, holy cow, you know that's you know, But
for me when when I came to the gym and
I already brought up to the dad and he's like,
I wasn't supposed to do but you already knew, you know. Uh.
We said, look, let's just get through this fight first.
We'll do it. But just like right now, let Rick

(01:03:21):
do his job. You know, Rick is going to do
his job. Let's focus on dol because we still have
to fight. We can't skip this fight and say we're
going straight into that one, because I think we needed
this this fight to get his rhythm back, get a
few more rounds and and and and in a fight,
and then we'll prepare for for the August two against
August fight against Tim Sue. But yeah, right away we

(01:03:43):
roll the whole the whole gym, everybody in the gym.
We were up for the fight, but we just knew
we had first had to get rid of, you know,
take this fight out of the way first.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Tim Zu is a full fledged junior middleweight, arguably was
the top guy before that loss to Sebastian Door, which
we all know was caused more by the cut in
the head than anything else. Virgil going into that fight
will probably only have well, I'll have two fights against
guys they're kind of blown up welterweights, whether it was
Frederick Lawson and now Thomas DeLorme. Does that concern you

(01:04:13):
at all? You know, facing someone that is a true
one fifty four in the big fight coming up.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
It doesn't concern me at all because I know how
how big and strong Virgil is. I think you know,
I've told I've told the Dad and Rake and everybody
else that I know Virgil could dominate at one sixty
if we couldn't make one fifty four. You know, like
I told you earlier that this last couple of fights,

(01:04:41):
by the time before he steps on the scale, I
asked him how do you feel you know, I know
right now is a moment to ask him, because he
has two more pounds to get to fifty four and
he's both times he just told me I could do it.
So I feel comfortable with that. But if there was
a little bit doubt, I know, even at one sixty,
he could dominate. You could name sixty pounders and I

(01:05:02):
know he could compete against them, and I know he
could beat them. So I have no problem at want
with before. I know Tim Sue is a great fighter,
great warrior, but it's just gonna be a canal action fight, man.
I think one of those fights that steals the show.
And you know, uh, it's hard to say that because
you also have Pitt Boo versus Ay that's also gonna
be full of action. But that fight right there, Virgio

(01:05:24):
versus Tim Sue is an unbelievable fight, and that's what
Virgil wants to you know, Virgil knows that that uh
he's had, you know, his career has been on hold
for for those for those personal uh sickness that he's
had and personal issues. He he wants to be there.
He wants those fights. I think that's what those fights
are gonna make them better. Those fights are gonna bring

(01:05:45):
the best out of him. I have no doubt that
he that he dominates that fight, and he could he
could hurt Tim Sue and and and and even stop him.
I really believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Last thing we'll ask you about is the top of
the card. Ramirez. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
You trained him for a long time, and one of
the questions I have coming into this fight is kind
of where his head's at, because he's had a lot
of time off sporadic activity since the Josh Taylor fights. Look,
there are reasons why he turned down some of these fights,
but the facts are he didn't fight Zepaida for a
title at the time, he didn't fight Pro Gray, and

(01:06:21):
he didn't fight Tefi Molpez. Obviously, money he got married there,
Obviously circumstances come into play with all that. But as
he begins kind of this new chapter of his career,
do you see the same fire that he had early
in his career when he was becoming unified champion. He's
fighting for the undisputed championship against Josh Taylor. Do you

(01:06:42):
see that same guy?

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
I think now that he's with that he's signed with
Golden Boy and It's something new to him and something new,
like like a new chapter in his career. He is
this Kimbell's great. His body you seem Dwayne. He looks fresh,
he looks healthy, he looks good yesterday last night. Hose
is a very responsible person. He always tells me Robert,

(01:07:07):
I'm I'm very responsible. You don't have to worry about
my weight. I was there with him. I wanted to
be with him when he comes within. Oh he did.
Was thirty minutes in the bike, broke a good sweat
and he was ready on waight and and and and
and they moved the fight to forty two. Not because
we asked for it, it was it was it was
actually we I seen the messages that were sent to

(01:07:28):
Golden Promotions where you know, if it's not a title fight,
you know, coming from from the other promoter from U TGB,
if it's not if it's not a title fight, do
you guys want to move it to one forty two?
And so then I said, well, if they're asking for
why not. It doesn't hurt too if both fighters want
to come in one for the two. It is not
a world terrifight, So I don't have to kill my

(01:07:49):
fighter to get to fortyse we're done. One forty were
no problem. Instead of doing half an hour, he would
have done forty five to two hours and in the
bike and he was sweating, sweating so much that he
would have made one forty problem. But if there was
no need to white white force them. So I was
there just too to see and he had no problem.
After after the after he he he finishes his half

(01:08:10):
an hour workout, we go to his backyard. He turns
on his pool, the waterfalls, the lights, just chaining there,
talking to everybody around him. He's happy. He's Before he
wouldn't do that, you know, he would do it on
his own. He didn't want nobody around him. Uh, this
time he's happy. I think it's a new promotion. You know,
he was with top Bronk for twelve years. Top Rank

(01:08:32):
honestly been one of the best promoters in the world
for sixty plus years. But in this case with Jose,
I think I think he needed something new. He Toprank
just got to a point where it was the same
thing for so long that he needed a change. And
Oscar head Oscar's energy. Oscar since the beginning of the year,

(01:08:56):
the first thing we hear is I want to do different.
I want to do things different in boxing. I want
to invite all the promoters to let's work together, let's
let's and and they've been doing it. They've been doing it.
Oscar's been pushing for it, and he's been getting fights
from different promoters to to fight, to fight in his
cars or they go to or oscars, fighters go to

(01:09:17):
their cars. They've been doing what Oscar has been asking for.
So that's that's something that's motivating. That's pushing Jose now
that he's part of Golden Boy, to be one of
one of his big biggest stars.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
At some point, Ryan Garcia is going to be looking
for another fight end of the year, something like that.
Uh if Golden Boys says catchweight fight Jose Ramirez against
Ryan Garcia one, how do you think a fight like
that plays out?

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
I would love that fight, you know what, I think?
I think Ryan is a great fighter, especially after his
last performance. Man, he became a superstar. Nobody even mentions
him him not making weight, Nobody mentions him you know nothing.
It's just that he's a superstar. So it would be
a huge fight for Jose. That would be the fight
that Jose, you know, him being him, becoming a unified champion.

(01:10:10):
His win against her Crew was huge. Then he fights
for the end of Tyrant. He lost. That was a
big you know, uh, it hurt him back because Jose
doesn't like to lose and he's a winner all the time.
So a fighter against Ryan would be the biggest thing
for him. He would he would trail like never before,

(01:10:30):
especially at a catchwaight of forty five forty four forty five.
It would be good because if you see, he should
have he should have been in Walsrood maybe first time.
He's two years ago. But he's so disciplined and so
dedicated and and and and has has that that hunger
to become champion again. That he still wants to compete
at one forty, but he could easily fight at forty

(01:10:50):
seven if he wanted to. He could compete against any
of the forty seven pounders. So a fight with Ryan
at forty five, I would love it. I would love it.
I think I think Jose has a ale to frustrate Ryan.
Obviously Ryan has that sharp, fast, powerful left hook. But
you know, I don't think I'll be I don't think

(01:11:10):
I'll be like Hany. I'll have a plan.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Gotta keep that right hand up all times.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
I'll have a plan. I'll do things that I would
have loved Haney to do.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Robert, I know you're gonna be busy tomorrow. Man. Thanks
for stopping by a given time.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey
Erdman and Robert Garcia for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate,
review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts,
and I'll see you next week.