Boxing with Chris Mannix - Winning the battle for Canelo - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Sign up with a promo code boxing so they know
I sent you. This is boxing with Chris Manning. Somebody
punch him in the face. Anti Joshua is a composed
and ferocious finisher. What's this? Hosted by Sis Chris Mannix.
That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything

(02:14):
going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent,
you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix all right,
joining me now on his way to the cantina. I
haven't even checked in. What are you talking about cantina?
You see my bag in my suit? Right? Are you
going straight to the bar to your room first? I

(02:36):
am going to the bar with Todd Grisham and then
I'm going straight to my room. Mohito time. This is
like work trips. You didn't go to college, but work
trips are like spring break for you. I want a
junior college and I took some classes and yeah, there
it's working a little bit of play. Yes, a lot
of spring break it junior college was there? Come on, man,

(02:57):
I'm just asking, of course, not aciates what I geta
didn't you almost like? Aren't you like half a credit shy?
Or I am six units shy of of a bachelor's
or something like that. Why don't you go we went
through all that to be six hun shy because I
got my PhD in boxing. Okay, I'm sure you did.

(03:19):
Sergio Mora, the former junior middleweight champion de Zone broadcaster
frequent guest here on the podcast Sergio, we are in
San Diego for I would say the highly anticipated Chocolateito
Julio Susan Martinez fight. That's Saturday, ont Zone. Before we
get to that, the story in boxing over the last
few days has been a familiar one, bad judging. Josh

(03:44):
Taylor the undisputed one hundred and forty pound champion. He
fought Jack Catterall last weekend in Taylor's hometown of Glasgow.
It was a competitive fight. Most people thought at the
end of it that Catterall had done enough to win.
Taylor got the decision, which led to widespread outrage once

(04:04):
again over the state of boxing judging. Frank Warren he
came out and said he doesn't want British judges anywhere
near the Tyson Fury Dillian White fight. Everybody is up
in arms about getting judging fixed in boxing, Sergio. We
go through this like every six weeks when there's a
bad decision. You and I were ringside when Raymond Ford

(04:25):
looked like he lost his most recent fight and he
was given a gift decision. Boxing judging is bad, but
nobody seems to know how to fix it. As a
former fighter, as someone who we've talked about this, you
feel you have been on the wrong end of bad decisions.
Most notably was it the first or second fight of
Vera both. It was both, but I'll tell you which

(04:47):
one hurt more. It was a Shane Mosley one because
it was on a higher platform. It was a pay
per view HBO fight. It was I left a lot
of money on the table. It was a horrible fight.
As a fan, I get that, but I won that fight.
I don't to go backwards, but in retrospect, I wish
I could have done something different if I knew I
was gonna get judged the way I did. How do

(05:07):
you fix boxing a million dollar question? Well, you hit
them judges where it hurts them, the pockets, so you
suspend them. You make an example out of them. If
you don't make example out of judges, then that nothing's
gonna change. They're gonna get another fight, another event. If
they help the promoter out or the promoters fighter, they're
gonna get hired by that promoter. It's all politics. It's

(05:29):
all what are you gonna do for me? I'm gonna
do for you type thing. I scratch your back, you
scratch mine. That shouldn't be the case, because one fight
can change a fighter's trajectory in his career, and it
changes his life. Man. Not only does it takeaway put
a zero on his record, but it takes away zeros
from his next check. These are things that people just

(05:50):
sweep under the table and fans and people in the media.
But for the fighter, it lingers, It sticks around. That
blemish is always is gonna be on your record, and
I swear to you man, you get this bad taste
on your mouth, not for the sport. You get a
bad taste in your mouth for like, of course, the judging.
But you just get bitter and you become dark. And

(06:14):
the bigger the fight, the darker you get. It really
is sad because Catterall heels for all the belts. It
doesn't get bigger than that. It does not get bigger
than that. I mean, if you were to dream up
the ideal situation of how you can steal someone's dreams,
that's it right there. For all the belts on the

(06:36):
biggest stage, Catterall was an unknown. This is exactly what
that one shot is. Like the eminem eight miles song,
You get one shot, one opportunity to seize everything you
ever wanted. Would you capture or let it go? He
captured it, guess who let it go? And freaking judges.
It's disrespectful. Yeah. The fundamental change that needs to happen
in judgings that there needs to be a global ranking system,

(06:59):
just like there are in every other major sport. In
the NBA, a sport that I cover, there is a
ranking system for referees and only the best ranked referees
get the biggest assignments name of the NBA Finals. It's
the same thing in the NFL. I believe it's the
same thing in the NHL. This kind of thing happens.
There should be at least, at the bare minimum in

(07:20):
the US a national system for this, preferably one that's globally.
But that's a lot to ask for sport that continues
to shoot itself in the foot. How about this, I
feel like you and I have had this discussion before too.
How about this. You have a main event. That main
event should feature the three best judges in boxing. You
and I know there's a shortlist for that. You've got

(07:41):
Steve Weissfeld, You've got Glen Feldman. Dontrella might be on
that list. It's probably four or five. Julie Letterman is
someone I have a lot of respect for, like you
should for every big time main event, those three or
three of those judges should be involved now as we
record this on Thursday. I don't know who the judges
are in the Chocolate Tito Gonzales or Chocolate Tito Martinez fight,

(08:02):
but if I'm Chocolate Tito, I'm concerned about it because
I just had Carlos Sucre totally fucked me over in
the last fight. I'm just saying like, this is like
like subject like, you're right, and I'm I shouldn't be
as offenditive as this as you are because you're the fighter,
and you're out there risking your life, you know, and
to have some dweep sitting ringside that gets it wrong

(08:24):
or or worse, maybe corrupt as to be maddening. I'd
be going for their heads and their necks. I love
the passion because you're talking like a fighter, which I
know you're not. And let me tell you, I've been
bitter for a long time that Moses, that Mosy fight,
that Shane Mosley fight justified that that ruined me in
some in a lot of ways. The verifight in Texas,

(08:47):
you know, you expect it. It's Texas versus a text
and the rematch, Yeah, that one got me. But the Mosy.
That one really emotionally tortured me, and I just hated
the sport and made me better. But um, I wasn't
fighting for all the belts. I wasn't fighting for undisputed.
Catterall would have changed the world. He would have become
He would have became what the fifth or sixth fight

(09:07):
fighter in the four belt era to become undisputed. He
would have went down in history. You know that. You
don't get moments like that again, you know, So even
if he does get the rematch, which I know he won't,
the stars will on a line for him like that again,
because Josh Saylor's not gonna take him to sit lightly
the same way. He's gonna know what to expect. He's
a shorter self, Paul. He fought him the right way.

(09:28):
That was a magical moment and and sadly was taken
away from him. That was a robbery. It wasn't a
blatant robbery. It was just a nice It was a
nice like, come on, man, what did you guys see here?
You guys should have He deserved it, maybe that's the word.
He deserved it. It It wasn't a highway robbery. He deserved it.
Catterall will get another chance at one of those belts.
But you're right, like the money that comes with being

(09:50):
undisputed is significantly bigger than what comes with just being
a one time title holder or whatever. He will become
down the line, Taylor, He's gonna move up. I look,
I was at one point pretty ecited about Josh Tayor
against Terrance Crawford. Not so much anymore. Not Maybe it's
I should shouldn't read too much into one performance, but
that version of Josh Taylor that's not gonna be good
against Crawford's. I don't think we'll see that virgin version again.

(10:12):
I think you know, with a fighter like Josh Taylor
that you know he had the coming off the biggest
win of his career, he was still riding high. You know,
I fought in his hometown. Everyone's been there, you know,
being on top of the world with all the belts,
fighting in your hometown and you come up short. You
come up short, you don't have you know, the full focus,
the full hunger that you normally do. It happens to

(10:32):
every hometown fighter. I call it the hometown curse. MANX.
I hated it. There's a lot of fighters out there
that hated it. Josh Taylor is gonna feel the same way.
All right, let's talk about some drama in boxing now.
It was just fifteen months ago, Sergio, when we were
in Texas to watch Ryan Garcia climb off the deck
knockout Luke Campbell with a vicious body shot. The first

(10:54):
person in the ring to congratulate him was Eddie Renoso.
Eddie Renoso is gone from Ryan Garcia's life. One of
the next people in the ring was Canelo Alvarez. Canello
and Ryan Garcia have had a back and forth in
interviews for Ryan Garcia on social media where he's quite
the popular person. Give me a reaction to kind of this,

(11:17):
you know, quick fallout and getting ugly fallout between Ryan
Garcia and team Canello. The first question that pops up
into my head is why why leave any rain? Also
when you've been perfect with him five and oho five knockouts,
two of them in the first round, sensational, he's been
looking great. How do you leave perfection? How do you

(11:37):
leave a camp where you're being under the wing of
the number one fighter on the planet. How do you
leave a camp that has Oscar Valdez I mean, you're
leaving perfection. You're leaving perfection because you're not getting the attention. Well,
maybe you don't deserve all the attention. Maybe maybe that
hunger that you that you're lacking is there, the fact

(12:03):
that you're not getting the shine, the fact that you're
not getting one hundred percent. Maybe that's what's making you hungry.
Look at look at Freddie Roach's fighters under Manny Pacio.
They did well. Every fighter that read Freddie Roach had
on the undercards of Manny Pacio and the champions that
he's had, they did well. They all went in the
same trajectory. They won, and in this sport, all that
matters is winning and winning. Impressive, Ryan Garcia, But to

(12:28):
be accurate, Jose Ramirez won a world title with Freddy
Roach and then left him in part because he didn't
feel like he was getting the attention for Freddy All,
I remember hearing what you said, right and won a
world title. That's how I remember. So Freddie Roach world
title left, that's his fault. And what happened next Ra
Mirror's you know lost, Well, he went on to become unified,

(12:48):
but now he bris Hooker. You know, that was a
pretty big one. Okay, and then he got pretty beat
up by Josh Taylor. That the case with Freddie Roach,
all right. With Ryan Garcia, I just think, you know,
with Ryan Garcia, he's such a popular fighter that he's
taken a page out of his promoters promoters book, Oscar Deloya?
What do you have? A handful of trainer changes? Five

(13:09):
six trainer changes Oscar Deloya. Ryan Garcia is on his
third and he's barely what twenty two years old. He's
on the same route as Oscar de la Hoya. Same
and look at the golden boy, had a Hall of
Fame career, made hundreds of millions of dollars. Ryan Garcia
is going to be on the same trajectory. He's following
the same way, taking the same page. If it works
for him, good. But you're asking me as a fighter,

(13:30):
why leave perfection? Why leave the trainer of the year,
Why leave training under the guide of the number one
fighter in the world. I just do not understand it. Well, then,
what if what Ryan Garcia has said is true that
Eddie Renoso was not around as much as he needed

(13:51):
him to be to be his trainer, and Ryan even
dragged Virgil Ortiz. I'm gonna repeat what I just said.
Maybe that made him hungry. It's kind of like, no,
I don't really get that though, I'm about to explain it.
You grew up with a father at home, right I did. Yes,
you're not hungry. I had no father figuring at home.
That makes you hungry, That makes you different, That makes
you Yeah, it makes you a little bit you know, bitter,

(14:12):
It makes you like I'm missing something. But but a
chip on your shoulder, like I'm missing something, you go
looking for what? You for what you didn't have? That
hunger or whatever you want to call it. Maybe I'm
using the wrong word for hungry, but that missing part
edge there you go. That missing part in your life
or in your camp is what's gonna keep you wanting more,

(14:33):
keep you hungry. And I think that maybe was what
Ryan Garcia had in that camp. Would anybody knows? So
the fact that he was a little bit bitter or jealous,
or the fact that he wasn't getting the shine, but
he didn't deserve the shine. You're under Canelo's wing, You're
in Canelo's can You're Cannello's trainer, You're number two. Accept
that and keep striving for more, Keep being hungry. That's

(14:55):
what makes fighters. The hunger. Whenever you get all the shine,
you get all the attention, maybe that hunger is gonna
take a back seat. We're gonna find out. You know,
every time you see my father, you say, I wish
I had a dad. Mister Mannox, I love you. I
love you. I don't even know you, but I loved one.
Thing I know you like, though, is that even though

(15:16):
you don't like the split between Eddie Renoso and Ryan Garcia,
you do like that Ryan Garcia is now working with
Joe Goosen. Why is Joe Goosen the right fit for
Ryan Garcia? I like Joe Goosen for Ryan Garcia because
Ryan Garcia has a erect style of fighting. He fights,
you know, kind of stiff Daryl Corrala's type. Darrel Caralis

(15:37):
had a mean left hook. Ryan Garcia has a mean
left hook. But aside from Corrals, the Red Los Burros,
Gabel and Raphael RelA same thing. They fought straight up.
They had mean left hooks, good uppercuts, fought behind a jab.
He likes lanky power punchers. He trains them really hard.
They get great sparring in Southern California Valley area and
Joe Goosen is one of the greatest trainers in the world.
Not only not only that, but he he puts the

(15:59):
work in every great training from Freddie Roach to Joe
Goosen to Ady Raino. So they have the IQ, they
know how to bring the strategy, but they put in
the work. You gotta work hard if you're gonna be
in there gym. And I've trained in the valley with
with Goosen, I've trained some of his fighters. I mean
I sparred with him, and what they lacked in telling

(16:20):
they made up in hard work and they made things
even So, Ryan Garcia has the talent. With Joe Goosen
is gonna have the hard work and he doesn't take
no shit. Joe Goosen doesn't take no shit. Yeah. One
thing I like about Joe is that he has had
a burning desire to work with Ryan for years. He
worked with Ryan. Yeah, he worked with our before he
turned pro. And he's often told me he's like, man,

(16:42):
you know, I don't know if he's I don't know
if Joe has the appetite to work with a whole
bunch of fighters. I don't think he wants to be
this guy with this deep stable, especially Nabzous. He's so
involved in television now, but he really wanted to work
with Ryan Garcia and now he gets a chance to
help mold someone that he's told me. He's like, I
don't believe Ryan Garcia can be defeated. Like he thinks

(17:03):
Ryan Garcia at his best can go undefeated the rest
of his career. That's a big statement, in a bold
statement to make. And we've seen Ryan get Chin checked
at least once during his time as a professional. But
like I mean, I can see it, like if Joe
Goosen can add to Ryan Garcia what he did with
Diego Corrales, Ryan Garcia is going to be a special fighter.

(17:24):
And if Ryan Garcia really does feel like he needs
the day to day attention, well, Joe Goosen moved down
to San Diego. Like Joe Goosen doing that for anybody.
Joe Goosen is in the gym with Ryan Garcia on
the regular, So I'm I'm very interested to see how
this partnership pays off. I will say this though, Sergio
a lot of pressure on Joe Goosen, Like if Ryan

(17:45):
goes out, it looks like crap against Emmanuel Tago, Joe's
gonna take some heat for it, right or wrong, He's
gonna take some heat for it. Have you seen how
that man dresses. He has a big ego then both
of us put together. He knows how to dress, he
knows how to act, and he knows how to handle pressure,
my friend, So don't worry about the press. He makes
Denim cool. Right, damn right, Joe Goosen, All right, h
Cannelo Alvarez, We brought him up. He has been. He

(18:07):
is in San Diego as well. It's sort of weird
by the way that these guys are, like I don't
know how many miles from each other, like Ryan Straining
in San Diego, still Canelos in San Diego. But Canello
was in San Diego for the kickoff press conference for
his fight against Demetri Beevil on May seventh. That's a
fight that's going to be on his own pay per view.
M Canello was very complimentary of Dmitri Beavil, saying, not

(18:29):
only does he believe Bevil is the top guy at
one seventy five, but among all the options that Cannello
had to face and chose from over the next few months,
including Jermal Charlo, David Benavidez, Macabu the cruiserweight. He believes
Beevil is the toughest fight that he could have taken.
Do you agree with that? Yes? I do, because if

(18:50):
you look at if you look at Dmitri Bivil, he
reminds me of two of Canello's past opponents that a
little bit of covid V, not just the Russian Siegman's size,
but COVV and Jacobs. Covip did well behind the jab,
he did well with the size uh. And I think
Daniel Jacobs did well with his movement, his ring general ship,
the game planning brought into the ring, and the confidence uh.

(19:12):
Beivo brings both those things with Canelo. I think the
style matchup is going to give issues to Canelo because
you need two things to give Canelo issues. You need
a move. You can't stand in front of him. BiVO
is a power chess player. You know, he doesn't stand
in front of you like he showed with Joe Smith.
You know he couldn't stand in front of him and
he could take a punch because Joe Smith can you know,

(19:33):
break through the wall. You know that he has a
cinder block fist and he cracked. He cracked Beivo and
that what in the final rounds. In the tenth round,
Beivo took it, so we know he could take a
punch from the bell rang he'll take a punch from Canelo.
Because Cannelo doesn't have Joe Smith Junior speed. He backs
it up with like speed as you know, as an

(19:54):
explosive puncher, but it's not that that that cinder block power.
So he's gonna be able to take Cannello's power and
he's going to be able to carry a strategy all
the way in the end. Anytime you interview Dmitry Beevo,
he always talks about the jab, staying composed, following the
game plan, and that's the reason he's not knocking out
guys like he used to would. And his last five
six fights he's gone the distance. He started off as

(20:16):
a power puncher. That goes to show you that he
plays power chess. He has the power to take you out,
but he's also a chess player. He's a grand master.
He's a Russian. For God's sake, of course he's gonna
be good at that. I mean, you know, you know
what my concern with Beevole is, I agree with everything
you said. The guy's highly skilled, and he's got some pop.
What's happened to him in the last few years, Like

(20:36):
he came up the ranks and there were people comparing
him to Golofkin back then, like the Russian Golofkin knockouts.
At one seventy five, he blast away I think like
eleven of his first thirteen or something like that. Then
over the last couple of years, and maybe he began
with Joe Smith or around that time. But as Joe Smith, Lenning, Castillo,
Craig Richards his most recent fight, he's not knocking guys
out now. I asked Beevil about this. It's something he

(20:58):
said to me. He was like, listen, basically, it takes
two to tango, right, Like guys are not coming to
fight him to win. I don't know if I agree
with that, Sergio. I think I think guys are going
to fight. I just don't see the same risk taking
with Dmitri Befo. I've said this on the potterst podcast
countless times. You can't just jab your way to a
win against Canelo. You can use it as a weapons.
Who can Mayweather did it? Canella was like seventeen whenever

(21:21):
he was LANDI Lara almost did it, almost didn't do it.
I'm just saying you can't do it. Yes, brains and
horseshoes man. Almost, yes you can, but you can't just
do it with a jab. You have to do it
with rings general ship too, bevil has that ring general
should do a power you gotta That was a powered
andy engaged. I was aggression and a power jab. But yes,
the jab was the main thing within that first fight especially,

(21:43):
but it was power like it was power and it
was standing in the ring and trading like the Covalle fight.
It was close, but I think coval It was gonna
win because he just kept flicking that jab. There was
nothing behind. You know, we took a lot of big
right hand but never through it. We took a lot
of heat for that covv. Canella fight because we didn't
give enough to colev But we saw that jab. It
wasn't a penetrating jab. He wasn't trying to hurt pat

(22:07):
He was patting the front of his gloves. And if
you're watching that on television, maybe you're thinking, okay, while
that jab's keeping him at bay. But it wasn't doing nothing.
It wasn't hurting Canello. Cannello was closing the distance with
his lower body getting closer and closer, and we knew why.
We knew that he was confident that he was gonna
get to him. Um, No, you need a smart jab.

(22:27):
Caleb Plant had a smart jab, but he didn't have
the experience to do anything else. I think Plant had
a good game plan, he just didn't have the experience.
Now he does. Now he can come back and have
you know, he can go through the fire. But you
need that experience. And with Beebo, I think that Joe
Smith Junior gave him the experience that he needed because
he knows he's one punch away from getting rocked. You
gotta throw right hands, though at some point, like none

(22:50):
of the opponent's Canello's face since Golofkin have thrown right hands.
Like whether it's Covid Lev, Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders
of the Older Room does really count? He was Cannello
is so explosive, and you saw what happened when plans
when when when? When you do commit to a right hand,
The more you commit to power, the more vulnerable you

(23:10):
are to power. And that's the reason people are timid
or or at least lyric to throw right hands against
Canelo because if you fall off balance or miss the
target's good night. You know what I love about what
Cannelo did after announcing this fight. As he came out
and without naming names, he said to Jamal Charlo to
Demetrius ANDREI fight each other, fight each other. Fight you

(23:34):
want you want me go through each other? You know
what they now have. I'm I'm very curious to see
how this plays out, because Cannello's next like eighteen months
are probably booked. He is going to fight um this
this may against Bevil. He's then going to face god
Willing Gnadi Gilofkin in a showdown between two of the

(23:56):
biggest names of the last fifteen years. And then he's
going to go into a December fight where I've been
told that it's more likely it's likely to be Junior
Maccabu at cruiserweight, or maybe John Rider if he wants
to have a fight over in the UK. Whatever it is,
I think it's going to be an international fight. I
think Canello wants to take his show on the road,
whether it is in Guadalajara in Mexico or over in

(24:19):
the UK against a guy like Rider, and then you
get into May of twenty twenty three, and if we
have a winner between Archer BETTERBEF and Joe Smith with
three piece of one hundred and seventy five pound title,
He's probably gonna fight the winner of that fight. So
Canello in two fights can become undisputed at one seventy five.
We know he loves history, wants to be to build
on his legacy. So with Cannello saying, guys, I'm done

(24:43):
until September of twenty twenty three, that puts a lot
of pressure on the guys. We talked about to do
something on Charlo to face Benavidez, a fight that should
be incredibly easy to make on the PBC side, Andreid
against Benavidez, but it's being talked about Joe Smith. Well,
that's gonna happened no matter what, Like that's going to happen,
like you know, that's penciled in for the summer. So

(25:03):
I'm not talking specifically about that, but I'm talking about
the Androids, the Charlo's, the Benavidez, any of these guys
that want to fight Canello. He's saying to them, stop
waiting for me to choose, you, stop begging for me
to choose. You make me want to choose. You may
earn the opportunity, unlike really nobody's done it over the
last couple of years. With Canello, the guy like Beevil,

(25:26):
maybe he didn't earn the opportunity, but he has He's
the same as Caleb Plant. Plant didn't earn the opportunity either.
He had something Cannello wanted, which was a title. Same
thing with to meet your Beevil. Say what you want
about Gnanadi Golovkin. He earned the opportunity. He fought twenty
four hard rounds with Canelo Alvarez, and nobody can say
there was a definitive winner in either one of those fights.

(25:46):
Next year, better b F Smith winner, that fighter will
have earned the opportunity. I hope that guy's like Charlo
and Benavidez and Andreid take this as a message and
say I'm getting in the ring with these guys, and
then come middle of next year, Canell's gonna look around
be like, that's the obvious guy. That's the guy. Benavidez beat, Charlo,
beat Andreid. He's the next guy that I should fight.

(26:07):
Make me want you? Isn't that a song from the eighties?
I don't know. Maybe, Oh no, it's I want you
to want me. No, but listen, you make a lot
of sense, man, I mean uh. And Canello makes a
lot of sense because they half here the big boss.
He can sit on top of the throne because he's
the king, and everyone wants the bay. They they want

(26:28):
that paid, so they want that payday and Canelo's holding
that pay day in front of him. And now he's saying, look, man,
you got you guys want to come and and and
and take this crown off my head? What you need
to deserve it? Man, You guys need to fight amongst
each other. And it's a smart thing to do because
Canello can't keep person because he's bound to get caught.
He's bound to have a bad night, he's bound to

(26:49):
get injured. You can't keep fighting every monster they put
in front of him. Because he's been doing that since
he was sixteen years old, you know, so maybe he
can like oh no, no, no, you can't continue doing that, man,
especially going up in waight like like he's been doing.
There's there's a limit. There's a limit, man, because these
are natural one seventy five pounders. This is a five
foot eight You know, stocky, explosive, great Mexican. But there's limits, man,

(27:14):
there's limits, would be that's the limit, that's and that's
a tough fight. And look, I'd rather I'd rather him
face go to cruiserweight and face Elana Junior Makabu than
a Joe Smith Junior or a better be of type winner,
because those are some legitimate one seventy five pound monsters.
And it only takes one punch and both of them

(27:36):
can crack. Both of them are the two of the
biggest punchers in boxing. They don't need to hit you cleanly.
They can. They can hit you with half a fist
and they're gonna rock you like you've never been rocked before.
That's that's the scary part about going up in wait
that it only takes half a punch. They don't have
to hit you cleanly. The idea that Canello was ducking
anybody is absurd, just utterly absurd. And uh, these guys

(27:59):
can prove that they rubbish, they're worthy of the opportunity
by fighting each other, as simple as that. All right,
let's talk about this weekend. On Friday, Jose Ramirez returns.
His last fight was in May of twenty twenty one
against Josh Chayla's a close decision in a battle for
the undisputed hundred forty pound championship. On Friday, he returns.
He's in Fresno, his home area, and he takes on

(28:22):
a tough opponent in Jose Padraza. A couple of things here, Sergio.
I was surprised that Ramirez stayed at one forty, like
he's kind of a big guy for one hundred and
forty pounds, sturdy, stocky. I've got a stocky but well
built for that weight. He stays at one forty because
he wants to get his titles back and he's coming
back against Padraza, who is not This is not a
gimmea fight. Jose Padraza has, want to think, three four

(28:45):
fights in a row. Since he's lost to Jose to Zepeda.
He has been in with Vasili Lomachenko. He lost by
knockout to Jervante Davis. But he's face tough competition. I'm
a little concerned about Ramirez in this fight. Ramire is
a surprise, only a big guy. When when he fought
Maurice Hooker and I sized them up, he's five foot ten,

(29:05):
you know, and and he's a big one forty pounder,
and I think if he goes back down he can
pick up those straps again. He can be a force
at one forty. One forty seven can wait, there's still
big money at one forty. Look at Teofimo Lopez. That
would be a big fight, huge fight if he can
fight him. I mean, he can get a rematch with

(29:26):
with Taylor. I mean that would be a big fight.
But you don't think like Rejas program, right, but you
don't think that I'd love to see another fight with
with Program, but I'll fight with program. Um Like Taffimo
after he lost was like, man, I shouldn't have stayed
at one thirty five. Josh Taylor after he lost was
kind of like, man, I probably shouldn't have stayed at
one forty. Like That's what's in my head as I
look at this fight, like, are we gonna have a

(29:48):
repeat of all that where Ramirez loses to a good
fighter in Pedraza. Who is I think more comfortable at
a hundred and forty pounds right now? If he loses
the fight that this is do we hear afterwards? Man
I should have gone to one forty seven. You never know, man,
when it comes to when it comes to fighters, they've
been they've been making weight since they were kids. We've
been making weight since we were kids. We're amateurs. We

(30:08):
know how to how to dehydrate the right way, we
know how to time our body. We know how to
you know, taper down and hit the mark. But they older,
but they don't. The older he's young, well he got
a little bit. Um. Josh Taylor's young. He's always been
a big, big one thirty five pounders teal females. Huge.
It wasn't Josh Taylor, but he looked awful. I haven't

(30:29):
I haven't sized up Taylor, but he ten is big
guy um two females. I don't know how he makes
one thirty five how we ever, how he ever made
it even though he'll be a huge one forty pounder,
because I look at Regius program decent size one forty pounder,
but know where the size of a teal female Lopez
or the height of a of a Ramirez or a
Josh Taylor's a tall muscular fighters. But anyway, you know

(30:51):
how to taper down. And the older you get, the
harder it gets. And if you it's a science, making
weight as a science, and sometimes fighters take advantage of
that science because they know that you know what they've
been doing for so long. But the bottom line, the
older you think it's fine for Ramires to stay. Yeah,
I want him to stay at one for because even
a lot of money on the table, he made a
name for himself becoming a unified champion. On one forty

(31:11):
he can be a two time champion. At one forty
he could still be one of the top dogs there.
I still consider him one of the top dogs because
I mean he lost to Josh Taylor. A gotta be
a Rejas program. Some good fights one forty seven though,
I'm not just talking about the Spences and the Crawfords.
I'm talking about Vigil Ortiz, who was now Virgils gone from.
That's a bad idea going up to one forty seven,
especially if you're gonna be fighting like young, an up

(31:33):
and coming fighter like Virgil Ortiz, who hasn't matured into
being a star yet. Once he I mean, he's dangerous.
We know he's he's the goods. We know he's gonna
be a star, but he's not there yet. But at
one forty seven, the belt the belts are gonna fragment
at some point, like Spence is gonna go, Like you know,
Crawford probably will still be there for a while. But
like Ramire has already had the belts, he wants the money.
He wants the big belts too, like you want to.

(31:54):
He wants the big fights for those. He wants the
big fights. I don't think he'll want to pick up
bacon straps a big fight. I guess Tafemo was a
big Fightee was a huge fight. A rematch with Taylor
is a huge fight. Program would be a popular fight
down stale Tailor's good program is good and Progra do
it at one forty seven too, I think. I think
when it comes to ra mirrors after his first loss,
belts don't matter. He wants the big fights and big money.

(32:15):
Padraz is a live dog in this fight. And I'm
gonna talk more about this on my pick segment of
this podcast. But Padraz is a very live dog in
this fight. All right, Let's finish with the big one,
Chocolate Tito against Martinez, super flyweight. No titles on the
line in this one, and nobody cares because you don't
need a title on the line. In a fight like this,
Ser Joe. We were ringside a month ago when Bam

(32:40):
Rodriguez beat Carlos Quadras. That was a one hundred and
twelve pounder, you know, just up two hundred and twelve
calling up to one fifteen to face a veteran, experienced,
highly successful one hundred and fifteen pounder in Quadras. How
likely is it that we see ah another and another

(33:04):
situation like that unfold in this fight on Saturday. There's
a possibility. But those are two completely styled styles that
you're talking about, in two different personalities and temperaments. And
Bam Rodriguez, who's composed, who's quiet, who followed the game
plan all the way to the end, didn't take chances,
but still got their respect. And then when you're talking

(33:25):
about Hulucies or Martinez, who's feisty. You've seen him in
the fighter meetings. He's having fun. You see when he's fighting,
he's hitting himself in the chin. He takes a big shot,
he gives a big shot. He fights explosive. He can
make an older fighter, an older legend in Chocolato, not
only feel thirty four years old, not only look like
he's thirty four years old, but he has the power

(33:47):
to to remind him that that he's an old legend.
So Martinez is very, very dangerous, explosive fighter, and he
comes from him from different angles. That's the one thing
that older fighters hate, when they have to pin down
a mover and when they have to always be on
their their toes because a punch can come from either

(34:08):
angle so explosively. Like when I fought Shane Moseley, for instance,
after the fight, he told me that's that's the biggest
thing that he couldn't Everyone thought Shane Moseley was going
to run over me, but I never gave him a
chance to plant his feet because I was always moving footwork.
And that's what Martinez brings to the table, aside from
big power, is switching from lefty to righty, punching from

(34:29):
awkward angers, coming in with a left uppercut and then
a body shot. You don't prepare for that. You can't
prepare for that. So that's what Martinez is bringing to
this table, the fact that he's younger, he's hungrier. He
just punches from these awkward, unexpected angles. And when you're
a legend like Chocolatito, the last thing you want to
do is track down a young, feisty, you know, fighter

(34:52):
like this. You want you want him to engage, but
you don't want him to engage from a soft point angle,
from from an orthodox angle, coming from the left, coming
from the right. It's very tricky to pin down. That's
what older fighters hate. So Chocolate Tito saw this stat
the other day. Is twenty and one against Mexican fighters
with the one loss that should have gone the other

(35:14):
way at least that Carlos Sucre card. Shout out Carlos
Sucre for one of the worst cards I've ever seen.
That was a horrible card. Canello, horrible fighter, horrible cau.
You're Mexican American, h what do you read into that?
Like a guy that's successful. That's not a small sample, sizer.

(35:34):
That's twenty one fights against Mexican fighters and he's arguably
beat them all twenty one times. Do you remember who
they called the Mexican Assassin, A boxer, Roger Mayweather, the
late great Roger Mayweather. And he was very successful against
Mexican fighters, but he was a defensive fighter. He had
that Mayweather shoulder rule. He had good power, you know.
He became a champion doing that when it comes to

(35:58):
we asked them in the fighter meetings. I asked him
at least, I go, why are you so successful? He says, well,
Mexicans come to fight. I asked him that stop stealing. Mike.
I was one to broke stat to him, Yes, you
know what, you brought it up, and I added on it, yes,
and and and it's the fact that it's the fact
that Mexicans come to fight at Choa is what he
said to Crash. You know, they come to they come

(36:19):
for a crash, they come to you know, you don't
have to go find him there. Why should this be
any different then? If you have a Mexican fighter that's
coming to fight, like why shouldn't we believe that Chocolate
Tito who still looks like he's at the top of
his game, there's gonna be any other outcome because Martinez
punches from these awkward angles and that's not a Mexican
style Mannix. That's that's like a nine anazine mamed amed

(36:40):
type fighter where he comes from different angles and he
carries the power. That's scary to fight because you don't
know when he's gonna punch. He's punching from these awkward
angles and he carries power. You think he's going to
carry the power up to one fifteen. I just don't know.
It's I've seen yet. I'll tell you that it doesn't
matter the unexpectedness, it's it's the fact that he's punching
you from a different angle. That's what's gonna catch him

(37:02):
off guard. The power is gonna be there regardless, I
mean the strength. But if he punches from angle that
you're not accustomed to being punched fromhim, that's what's gonna
hurt you. So one question I have though coming in
is that you look at the last six seven fights
from Martinez, he averages like fifty sixty, between fifty and
sixty punches per round per fight. Chocolate theaters like an

(37:22):
over a hundred. The sheer volume of punches that Chocolate
Tito's throws are staggering, Like how do you how do
you bridge that gap? Like to me, it seems like
Sergio that Martinez has to knock him out because this
goes to the scorecard. The number of punches Gonzalez is
gonna throw is just going to power him to a win.
Body shots and uppercuts, which is Martinez a specialty. He

(37:43):
wings his left hooks. That could be dangerous, but that
could also be dangerous punches to throw. But the punches
that are gonna be effective with Martinez are the uppercuts
and the body shots, especially when he's doing it from
both angles, from left the end, righty. That's gonna give
issues to any fighter, legend or not. You know, it's
it's it's frustrating to have to cover both styles. And

(38:05):
then if Martinez can carry some kind of discipline and strategy,
not just going forward and being aggressive and and and
looking for the big shots, but if he can actually
fight on the back foot like we've seen him boxing,
I've seen him use his his his angles backing up
as well. If he can, if he can bring a
little bit of both those things and chocol can be

(38:26):
pushed back and have to come forward looking for him,
Martinez can win this fight. He's he's a very dangerous fighter,
we know that. But he's also a live dog. What
was your specialty? Punching from different angles, believe it or not,
you know, the footwork, footwork, uh, frustrating opponents speed and
believe it or not, always a sneaky body puncher. I

(38:48):
was a sneaky body puncher, just like Martinez. Only Martinez
has a power, you know, But I would I would
frustrate opponents, I would not let them set their feet,
and I would hurt him to the body because I
couldn't hurt him upstairs in the body. He doesn't have,
you know, it doesn't take the big power. And that's
when Martinez brings to the table. Whenever you punch, whenever

(39:08):
you punch someone when they're not prepared, whenever you punch
someone that's an awkward angle, they're not accustomed to getting
hit from that spot, so's it's unexpected, and those are
the punches that hurt. My trainer always use an analogy,
and it's a great analogy. If you're walking into a
room and there's a pole in the middle of the
room and the lights are on, and you expect to
get hit that pole, you're gonna brace for it, turn

(39:29):
off the lights and walk into the same room and
walk in and then get hit by the pole. You're
gonna react a lot different. It's gonna buckle your knees,
and it's gonna hurt a lot more because you didn't
see it coming. That's all getting hit from an unexpected
angle feels like it's a good analogy. That's my trainer.
Dean compoles like that. All right, go to the bar,
All right, go into a room. When don't we come back?
My conversation with Eddie Hearn, we just can't seem to

(39:52):
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(41:59):
using Code Boxing Today. All right, you're with Eddie Hearn
Matchroom Boxing, match Room Boxing USA. We are in San
Diego for the Chocolate Tito Julio Caesar Martinez fight. That's
a fight you can see exclusively on to Zone in
the US, Neddie, I'll get to that, but we began
this day on Wednesday with the Canelo Alvarez Dmitri Beevil

(42:22):
press conference. Now, last year, after the Saunders fight, I'm
guessing you probably knew there was a good chance you'd
lose Canello because Canelo wanted that Caleb Plant fight, wanted
to become undisputed. And while you did try to bring
Canello or bring Plant over to to Zone match Room,
you knew that was a tough, tough fight to make

(42:43):
on your side. Going into this year, the odds were
basically even, right, Like, you know, Canello would have options
with PBC, namely a Jamal Charlo fight, David Benavidez, whatever
it may be, and you had Dmitri Beevil, Ganadi Gollopkin
that side. You ultimately won out Canello signed a multi
fight deal with Matchell. I guess my question is, how

(43:04):
did you kind of win that battle for Cannello. I
think a lot of it is built over the last
sort of eighteen months, you know, in terms of the
relationship that we're built. We did three fights together very quickly,
didn't We We did Callum Smith, we did Avney Yieldrim,
and we did Billy Joe Saunders. After that, I did

(43:24):
feel you're right that Canello's star power would bring Plant
to wherever we needed him to be. I didn't anticipate
the stubbornness of the PBC to basically say you're not
getting Plant unless Cannello comes over to us. So at
that point I kind of knew that we would probably
have to lose a fight with Cannelo Alvarez. We did

(43:47):
talk about the Dmitri BiVO fight during that period as well,
but I kind of like felt that I was, you know,
banging my head against a brick wall because I knew
how badly he wanted undisputed, and I couldn't even really
convince him that he should fight Dmitri Bio. In my
heart of hearts, I knew that he had to fight

(44:08):
Plant because that was always the goal for us, for
him to be undisputed. And Eddie Reinoso and Canelo Alva
has said to me, look, we're going to take this fight,
but look you're our guy, we love working with you, etc.
And those words are nice, but you hope that it
actually leads to something in the future this time around,
you know, Eddie Reinoso said to us, look, what what's

(44:30):
your thoughts? You know, let us know your plans. We've
had an offer from PBC, We've had other offers from
other people, and you know, I said to them that
I feel that, you know, one potential is to become
undisputed at one seventy five. You've done it at one
sixty eight. Would be historic to go up to one
seventy five and do the same. In the meantime, of course,
there was the talks of Gnardi Golovkin. That fight remains

(44:52):
probably the biggest fight in boxing. It's a huge amount
of money available for both guys for that fight. So
we started to incorporate that into the sort of two
fight plan. So I felt that the good thing about
what we had was Cannello likes to face the champions,
and he likes to fight people where he feels like

(45:12):
he's actually going to be getting something and adding it
to the resume and making history in that fight. And
I always knew that Jamal Charlo would ultimately be a
voluntary defense of his one sixty eight titles, and that
doesn't really appeal to Canelo Alvarez. I mean, when was
the last time that Cannelo Alvarez made a voluntary defense
of any title? I mean, don't I don't think that exists,

(45:36):
you know, Rocky Fielding, I think actually or no, he
was even mandatory at the time. I think so. I
think basically I felt that because of the challenge of
taking on a champion at one seventy five, we had
a good chance to land Cannelo Alvarez. Obviously financially, the
deal's always got a match up, and I felt like
he wanted to work with us, he wanted to be

(45:59):
back with me, Mattrum, and it was a long time coming.
It was probably four weeks. I flew to San Diego
before the Jesse Rodriguez fight, and it's it's it's been yeah,
four weeks basically, and quite quite a sort of long
four weeks. Because you feel like you got it, you
feel like you haven't got it. Mike Coppinger puts a
story out. Everyone gets a bit annoyed. Where's that come from?

(46:22):
Who said that we haven't done a deal yet? And
you know, eventually we got it over the line. What
was the more challenging part of this deal to put together,
the one worries facing Beevill or the back half of
it with Kenardi Glafkan. Probably the Golovkin fight, you know,
although that's financially bigger fight, it's obviously there's a lot
of history there, and they don't like each other. I mean,

(46:44):
that's that's clear to see still, even yeah, and I
think I feel that they didn't really like each other
before the fight. They still don't like. I think everybody's
matured a lot since those you know, those two fights.
I know it was only what three years ago, but
I just think that you only have to ask Cannello
a question as we saw to that the press comments
for him to just snap back something about Gannardi and

(47:05):
then you see Gnardi's comments across social during the week
about the two defeats, and so that fight is always
harder to make because there is a little bit of animosity.
But I think what people have got to understand about
Canelo is is he will fight anyone, and people talk about, oh,
we won't fight this guy, won't fight that guy. I've

(47:26):
never heard him turned down like these people. Christian. Sometimes
in boxing you get people that come in and say, oh,
maybe could we have an easier one? You know, just
fought all these guys, is there an easy fight? They
never want to do that. So he was always up
for fighting Gnardi Golovkin if the deal made sense, if
people actually wanted to see that fight, and people did

(47:48):
want to see that fight. They do want to see
that fight, and he's more than happy to accept the challenge.
You have referred to this as a multi fight deal.
Most people are focused on the two fights, but the
aforementioned Mike Carpenters said there may be a third fight
in the works for December. How likely is it that
we see? Very likely? I mean that was really we

(48:08):
always discussed a two fight deal, and probably about two
weeks ago Eddie Renoso came to me and said, let's
lock in a third fight for December. So although the
two fights are papered, the third fight is very much
being worked on at the moment. They want to do
that internationally. You know, December always kind of sits to
be a fight that is more like an interim fight,

(48:34):
you know what I mean. You've got Sinker demo, You've
got September. December is like the Abne Yildrim fight for example,
that was February, but it's just that interim bout where
it's something it'll be different. I would love to see
Canelo Alvarez fight in Guadalajara or in London or something
like that. I mean, can you imagine a fight with
Cannello in Guadalajara. That would be a such a historic moment.

(48:57):
We do have options in the UK with John ride
Up because he is going to be a mandatory challenger.
Macabu has been mentioned as well to cruiseweight World champion
for December, so there's plenty of options out there. I
think Sale is really focused on on Dmitri Bival, but
it's my intention with Eddie Reynoso to lock up that
December fight, you know, over the next month or so.
So Glaskin would come in between that and if a

(49:20):
lot of the hardcore boxing fans kind of get a
little irked the idea of a third Glafkan fan, it's
a weird difference. Like the casual fans I think are
still interested the hardcore fans are like, Gnardi is gonna
be forty years old, it's well passed expiration. Did how
do you view Do you believe that fight is passed
it's expiation? No, I mean, you know, it was only
what less than three years ago. We saw two of

(49:41):
the best fights that we've seen in boxing, and I
think the fight is very different now. I think the
fight is more aggressive now. I think both guys will
be looking to go out and actually win the fight
by knockout, and Gnardi will think to himself, you know,
I've had two decisions that have been closed on knee
to win this fight by knockout. I think he will

(50:02):
also think to himself that if I lose the fight,
he's my last fight, so I'm going to go in
there and give it absolutely everything. I think Canello feels
like he's improved a lot during that period and he
will knock out Gnardi Golovkin this time, so I think
the fight will be very, very explosive. Hardcore fight fans
are sort of quite strange people. You know, you feel bunch,
you get two of the best fights you've ever seen,

(50:23):
then they want to do it again. It's like, oh,
it's too late. It's like, guys, it's only three years ago.
I mean, I guess the inactivity of Gnardi, you know,
some really no big fault of his own, but coming
off the back of the pandemic might make people think that.
But trust me, when that fight gets announced and they
go head to head and the back and forth start,
that's a monster, no question. All right. The reason we're

(50:44):
here is for chucole Latito against Martinez. When you put
this fight together about five weeks ago, after a Strata
belled out, what surprised you more that Martinez was willing
to move up for this fight or the chucole Latito
would take it. I think that a bit of both.
I mean, one thing, one of the great things we
see about the smaller weight classes is people willing to

(51:05):
take risks and people willing to jump up divisions to
take fights at late notice, you know, etc. Etc. And
when I was actually sitting in a cinema at the
time watching a film and I got the message from
Estrada's manager to say, I'm really sorry, he's got COVID.
He's just can't recover in time. He's not going to

(51:25):
be ready. And I was sort of sitting there watching
this film, thinking, I can't believe it. You know, Strada
Chocolate Tito three was really a great fight for the schedule.
And then I started thinking about and car Jass. I
started thinking about other people, and I thought to myself,
we told Julio Seesar Martinez that March the twelfth was

(51:49):
We told Julio Sees martine Is that March the twelfth
had potential. So he was kind of like getting ready,
but he's never really getting ready. Julio Seesar Martinez and
I text Eddie Reinoso and I just said, do you
think there's any chance that Julio Caesar will step up
and fight Chocolate Tito? And he went, wait for you.
Let me come back to you, Bessie. You're back five
minutes later. Again, my crazy man is ready. And that

(52:11):
was it. Like the rest is history, and we just
have like I can't say that it's a better fight
than Estrada Chocolate Tito three, but I think it's a
more intriguing fight, Like we just don't know what we're
going to get. Martinez could emerge to be a true
Mexican star. After the weekend, we're going to have eight
thousand in the arena in San Diego. The atmosphere is
going to be incredible. He may get schooled by Chocolate

(52:33):
Tito at the same time, who looks incredible, who looks fresh,
He's had a very long training camp. But when you
look at the mix of fights anywhere between, you know,
one twelve, one fifteen, whatever it is, You've got Chocolate Tito,
You've got Estrada, You've got Jesse Rodriguez, You've got Rung beside.
You know so many great fighters there, Julio Sesar Martinez,

(52:54):
who could step up, step down, whatever. There's just so
many great fights to make. And I think Saturday, I
think we're gonna get Saying really spere with his fight.
You're either going to see Chocolate Tito triumph as just
a guy that will fight anybody and just a pound
for pound legend, or you're going to see a new
star of Mexican boxing emerged. Chocolate Tito became something of

(53:15):
a known commodity in the US based on those super
Fly shows HBO put on for several years. You now
have kind of some pieces to move around in that division.
Maybe Martinez stays at one fifteen. You had Bam Rodriguez
winning last month saying he's going to stay one fifteen.
I mean, do you envisioning because you, like you said,
these guys will fight anybody anytime, that kind of dynamic

(53:38):
where you can just mix and match these guys a
few times. Yeah, literally, you could pick put the guys
into a hat and pick out any two and they're
super fights, you know. I mean, if Julio sees a
Martinez wins this weekend, Julio sees a Martinez against one
Estrada is a super fight, you know for Mexican boxing.
Jesse Rodriguez against Martinez, Jesse Rodriguez against Estrada, Jesse Rodriguez

(54:02):
against Chocolate Tito rung Beside, there are so many great
fights to be made in division and you can you
can confidently believe that they will actually get made, which
is refreshing. In the same time, the guys are getting paid, well,
it's not. Yeah, sometimes there's the kind of feeling that, oh,
they you know, they do the lower weight classes because
it's cheaper. Not really, you know, I mean, I had

(54:23):
to pay Julio sees Martine's a lot of money to
step up on six weeks notice and fight Chocolate Tito.
But it's okay because we're going to get a war.
So I'm happy to pay the guy as well, and
they're happy to take the challenge. All right, last question
for you, UM, you are working on at some level
Anthony Joshua Alexander usk the rematch. I turn on my

(54:43):
TV this week and I see Usick on CNN in
Ukraine at his family home, a basement of his family home,
a bunker with his family. He's away and he's made
some comments about he's not sure when he's going to
defend his talles. At the very least, he's our training
for any type of fight anytime soon. Obviously that's a

(55:04):
bigger deal. That's a bigger situation what's happening in Ukraine.
But as far as Anthony Joshua's future, are you I
don't us we're concerned, But what do you think about
the ability to get him into the ring with Usick
or get him in the ring at all. Well, firstly,
that's the fight we want next, and that's the only
fight AJ's concentrating on. You're quite right, obviously there's much
bigger things going on in Ukraine than a boxing match,

(55:26):
and we respect Usik's position, you know, his country's position,
his emotional his family's well being, and we wish those
guys all the best, and we need to plan for
Antony Joshua's career. And if he's not going to be
ready within the time frames that we expected that fight
to take place, then I would envisage an interim fight
for Antony Joshua, but it wouldn't affect the long term goal,

(55:50):
which is to fight Alexander Usik next. So any kind
of move in that respect would lend itself to waiting
for Usik to be ready. We're not going to wait
and wait and wait. And you know, whilst we respect
their situation, we have to look at the future of
Anton Joshua. But if it's a three month delay or
whatever it is, we would like an interim fight in

(56:12):
that period, and I think that's more than fair. But
what we don't want to do is give up the
option or the contractual clause of a rematch Reusi, because
it's the only fight AJ once and he's tried, you know,
people have tried to pay him not to take that
fight and he wouldn't accept. So hell, you know, the

(56:32):
first question to me is, well, I don't want to
lose Jusick fight, so we need to speak to Alex
Krassic and a team. But you know, Chris doesn't really
feel right to even call him at the moment and
sort of start asking questions and digging around. So we'll
have to see what happens over the next couple of weeks.
But we respect their position, but we also must act
in the best interest of AJ's career. Do you look
at us a couple of weeks before you have to
kind of make something? Yeah, I mean we were alway

(56:54):
already in the process of nailing down the venue and
going through the offers, So we look for that fight
take place early June or something like that. So there
is still three weeks four weeks till the guys actually
get into camp. But we just don't know, you know,
I don't know any enough about the situation to know
how long that's going to last, and I don't think
anyone does. So we'll give Oosick the time that he needs,

(57:16):
but at the same time want to get Aj back
in the ring'd he appreciate it? Good to see it
back in the US, Thanks Chris. When we come back.
My conversation with Joe Markosky, what grows in the forest. Trees.
Sure no one else grows in the forest. Our imagination,
our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too,

(57:39):
because when we disconnect from this and connect with this,
we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than
you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring.
I Discover the Forest dot org brought to you by
the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. Look

(57:59):
to your children and thighs to see the true magic
of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You
look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face
of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They
see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that
could lead to adventure, and they see you there, fearless guide.

(58:19):
Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
start exploring At discover the Forest dot org, brought to
you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.
And we're live here outside the Perez family home, just
waiting for them. And there they go, almost on time.
This morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong
with a double armed kid carry looks like dad has

(58:41):
the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh but
the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh,
but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle
for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks
to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in
the booster seat. Ten zips the bad clothes and they're off.

(59:04):
But looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is
still on the roof of the car and there it goes. Ah,
that's a shame that mug was a fan favorite. Don't
sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like
making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right
seat for their agent's eye. Learn more at NHTSA dot
gov slash the Right Seat visits NHTSA dot gov slash

(59:26):
the Right Seat brought to you by NITZA and the
ad Council. All right, So, in the aftermath of the
announcement of Canelo Alvarez's return on May seventh against Dmitri Beevil,
coming with that announcement was that it will be a
part of a Zone pay per view that is obviously
representing a shift in the business model for de Zone,

(59:49):
which burst onto the scene in twenty eighteen, effectively trying
to eliminate pay per view is now getting into the
pay per view business. Now to kind of break it down,
I want to bring in Joe Markovski, vice president over
at the Zone. Joe, I guess we did a podcast
back in December and we kind of alluded to this coming,

(01:00:09):
but now that it's here, kind of break down from
me why this is necessary and what you know? Just
how often will it be used? And what can boxing
fans expect from the pay per view model over into Zone.
There's three questions there. Good to be speaking with you
as well, Chris, good morning. Look, why is it necessary

(01:00:32):
for us to do this? It's necessary because to continue
delivering the best in market value offer we do in
terms of regularity and quality of fights, we need to
be in the pay per view business. The market has evolved,
Cannado Alvarez's stardom has evolved. We've expanded our business into
new markets where our established pay per view stars who

(01:00:53):
will not fight without being a participant in the pay
per view revenue share, Anthony Joshua being a very good
example of that in the UK. So both the market
we exist in and and the scale of our business
has changed, and we believe we know that to get
the fights we want to get on the platform and
the fights that fight fans want to see, we need

(01:01:15):
to occasionally make use of pay per view technology and
pay per view commercial platform. It's not a decision we
took lightly clearly, myself and other broadcast execit the Zone
four years ago. And what was four years ago? I
think it's Keithing Distress had a different position on pay
per view then, and we're here not shying away from that.

(01:01:37):
We're not denying that or trying to get away from
the fact that we did position it differently previously. Was
acknowledging that the bit our business and the businesses that
we are in have evolved and changed, and that is
a major component of why we're doing this. I think
you're second part of the question of how often it
will be used and when it will be used. I
think that the Zone pay per view platform we used

(01:02:00):
far less frequently than other broadcasters use pay per view
in this country. I think the UK the situation is
very different. We will use it sparingly and when we
need to to make fights happen, not every single fight
on the zone is now going to flip to a
pay per view model. The quality of the script subscription content,
I think is going to go up this year if
you look at what we'd announced in the last few weeks,

(01:02:22):
If you look at the months of April and well
March April in particular Ryan Garcia April ninth, Taylor Serrano
April thirtieth. There are other broadcasters we me and you
both know in this market, if they had their hands
on Ryan Garcia would make all his fights pay per views.
We are not doing that. We are continuing to deliver
value into the subscription offer, and we're continuing to focus

(01:02:43):
on that value proposition in the subscription What does it
mean for our business, Not a lot. I think it
means that we are going to continue being the best
value proposition in market for boxing fans in the US
and the UK. Our numbers reflect the fact that subscribers
now understand that, and they're loyal to us, increasingly loyal
in terms of how long they stay because they recognize

(01:03:04):
that value and they know the product we serve them
is a high quality, high value one. I'm very happy, ultimately,
when this is a conversation about value to point to
that and talk about that, because I still believe, hand
on heart, honestly, we are the best value proposition in market.
And I don't think many people in your side of
the industry, on the journalist side, are going to dispute that.

(01:03:24):
What changed since twenty eighteen when the Zone came into
the business looking to eliminate pay per view? What changed
to bring the Zone to this point? Well, I think
what's changed is the market's changed and the numbers involved
in making these fights, and they've been reported. We've not
fed them, but they've been reported. They're not a million
miles off. To get the rights to Canelo Alvarez fights

(01:03:47):
and to Anthony Joshua fights, You're in a competitive market
where people are willing to guarantee large amounts of money.
At some point, as that market inflates, the model we
were using for those for those fights previously becomes uneconomic.
And so if we want to continue serving our customers

(01:04:08):
with the holistically the best value offer in boxing, we
have to be able to compete in those processes. The
alternative will be not to compete, not have those fights
on the Zone, and they'd be broadcast somewhere else in
a broader pay per view offering that will be far
more clustered and busier than ours. And I don't want
to criticize anyone else's business. That is their business to run.

(01:04:31):
They'll have their own view on what we're doing, but
they'll keep it to themselves. In most cases, we're going
to stay focused on what we're doing. I really think
this is a conversation about value at the end of
the day, and the value point I think is maintained.
We're still considerably ahead of the market in terms of
the value we offer the boxing fans in a number
of different ways, in original programming, in quality and regularity

(01:04:51):
of fights, in our social media coverage, our willingness to
cover the entire sport, which no one else does in boxing.
We serve boxing fans you really well. We've been I think,
very very good value for a long time. We're going
to continue being very good value. And I think ultimately
I'm confident, having I know this business inside out, I'm

(01:05:12):
confident we're making the right decision. Do you have a
target or a maxed number of pay per views in
your mind for a calendar year. I think that's what
gets because as you well know, boxing has become kind
of saturated with pay per views, where it's almost monthly
that people are being asked to shell out an extra
seventy five dollars or whatever it is. Do you, in
your mind have a max number that it will go to.

(01:05:35):
We're not going to use it regularly. We're going to
use it sparingly. We're going to use it far less
than other people in the market use it. I'm not
going to name names or point to fights, but there
have been lots of fights recently, and you know the
fights I'm referring to that, in my mind should never
be pay per views, And I think the reported numbers
that get released by various places online and by chatter

(01:05:58):
in the industry reflect the they're not seen by consumers
as interesting pay per view units. We're going to use
it sparingly, and where we have to use it, you're
not going to see it be a month you know,
month to month to pay per view culture on the zone.
I can assure you the senior most senior levels of
our business, our board, when we're talking about our boxing business,

(01:06:20):
they are very very clear that the value to our
business longer term is in growing that subscription base who
have been loyal to us who've been good to us.
We've been good to them. We've served them with tremendous value.
They've they've stuck around in increasing numbers. The length of
time they stay on our platform subscribers is longer and
longer every year we get. We've got to know them better,

(01:06:42):
they've got to know us better, and the relationship stronger
and stronger. Our business and our board are absolutely clear
that if we play with that group too much or
a school, we lose them, and we're not going to
do that, and that it will ultimately we reflect in
our pay per view decision making. It will be sparingly,
not regularly. You've been in the Cannelo Alberas business since

(01:07:06):
twenty eighteen, beginning with the Rocky Fielding fight. Do you
believe that you could have stayed in the Canelo business
with this two fight deal without the use of pay
per view? No, I don't. That's reflection of by the way,
Cannello's popularity and he's growing stardom because the market for
his rights is far more competitive than it was a
couple of years ago. Good for him. He's an incredible fighter,

(01:07:31):
he's an incredible marketeer. He's loved and adored by fans
all around the world, particularly in the US and in Mexico.
He's transcending Mexican American boxing fans, which I think was
probably the vast majority of his audience a few years ago.
He's a transcendent star with super brand power and super stardom.
So those kind of people in this country get heavily rewarded,

(01:07:52):
and the market is reflecting that. So I'm happy for him.
I'm confident in the numbers that we've put forward and
the model will employ that. It's an economically sound decision
for our business. I think it's reflective of all those things.
Last question for it, do you the announced pay per
view for Canello against Evil fifty ninety nine on top

(01:08:14):
of the nineteen ninety nine that you'd pay for a
monthly design subscription. There are other ways that you would,
of course getting them the annual subscription, which most boxing
fans I would imagine have. Do you see price points
as being fluid like as you move forward or do
you aim to stay in one certain area pay per
view price pay per view price points. Yeah, there will

(01:08:36):
be and I think Caneo is always gonna be at
the top end of that market. Because he's the top
currently it's a top pay per view star in the US,
So I think on a case by case basis, the cost,
the incremental cost of it his own pay per view
will be fluid, yes, but again we're going to use
it sparingly with an eye always on value. Because we

(01:08:56):
maintain our position that we are the best value play
in boxing for fans. I'd encourage them that the annual
pass is a fantastic value for fans. Eddie wants to
do fifty shows this year on his own Eddie Hern
Golden Boy Triple G. Our broader offer of content, our
original programming offer, our day to day to zone boxing
show out. But if you're a boxing fan, the value

(01:09:19):
to zone serves you is incredible. We're going to continue
doing that. Good to be back in the Canello business
after he went off and became undisputed for one fight.
I've been practicing in Spanish how to say welcome back
to the zone. And maybe you'll see that later to
they at the press conference. Maybe I'll bottle it and
not go through it, but I've been practicing. Look, we've

(01:09:39):
been in the Canic of Alvarez business for a while.
We love working with him. He took a little hiatus,
which you know I put on a personal level. I
rerespect what he's doing right. He's not letting a broadcast
relationship effect who he fights and when he fights them.
You have to respect that from a sporting perspective. Clearly,
from my business side, I want can of Alva as
far as on the zone as often as possible, because

(01:10:00):
he's such a powerful driver for our business. We've struck
a good deal. I think twenty twenty two is de
zoning Canelo in cahoots in Partnership Matchroom Boxing, our fantastic
partners of ours. They do a great job promoting Canelo.
I think if you look at our broader offer of
content with Ryan back fighting with Katie Taylor and a
Mani Serrano in a historic clash the week before Canelo,

(01:10:21):
then you're into May with Canelo. Then you're into the
summer with our broader roster them and Gears and the
Diazes and the Garcias. Again, you're talking about a very
very strong five or six month play here. So I'm
going to take the opportunities to sleep and rest where
I can't. I don't think there's been much of that
over the summer months. Well, Joe, I appreciate you liam
it out for me. Appreciate it. Thanks Chris. All right,

(01:10:46):
time now for this week's picks, brought to you by Fandel.
If you have been betting with me since I started
doing this in January, you have probably won a decent
amount of money. Last week I told you to take
Josh Taylor by decision over Jack Catterall. What happened. Josh
Taylor won by decision. This week, I am locked in

(01:11:08):
on the Jose Ramirez Jose Padraza fight that is Friday
night in Fresno, California, one hundred and forty pound fight
between Ramirez, a former champion at one forty in Padraza
one of the more well known names in multiple weight classes.
So ordinarily I would lean heavily towards Jose Ramirez, but

(01:11:29):
I have some questions here. Ramirez has not fought since
May of twenty twenty one. Now, Padraza last fought in
June of twenty twenty one, so he has been just
as inactive. But ramirez last fight was against Taylor. He
lost a big fight, a undisputed championship fight, And I
thought in that moment that Jose Ramirez was a pretty

(01:11:51):
big guy for one hundred and forty pounds, would take
that opportunity to move up and wait, he decided to
stay at one forty and is going to try to
get one or more of his titles back. That worries
me a little bit. Padraza. He has been at one
hundred and forty plus pounds for his last four fights,
so I think he's more comfortable at this weight. And

(01:12:12):
I think Padraza, whose losses have largely come at the
highest level. He was stopped by Jervonte Davis, he went
the distance with Vassili Lomachenko, and he lost to Peta.
These are not bad losses. So I am going to
take the underdog in this fight, that is Jose Padraza
plus three ninety over at fan duel right now, and

(01:12:33):
I'm gonna take him by decision, which is at plus
five fifty. Now. One of the thing here, the location
worries me as I make this bet. I agonized over
this bet because of where this fight is. Fresno, California,
the home region of Jose Ramirez, and we saw with
Taylor against Catterall in Glasgow, Taylor's backyard. Now that location

(01:12:56):
matters that beating a guy on his home turf is
really difficul But I think Padraza's got one last signature
performance in him, and I am concerned about Jose Ramirez
getting back down to one forty to make the weight
for this fight. So I'm going underdock here Padraza by
decision over Ramirez. That's my picks, brought to you by FanDuel.

(01:13:21):
That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergio Mora,
Eddie Hearn, and Joe Markovski Woul joining the show. As always, subscribe,
rate review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you
can download podcasts, and I'll see you next week. We
just can't seem to catch a break, huh. So many
rough fire seasons, but we made it through. And now

(01:13:43):
there's another risk. All that charred soil and burnt vegetation
can lead to floods and mudflow. I know, but you've
got this too, and one way to get this is
to get this flood insurance. There's no rest for the West,
but with flood insurance, you can rest assured that you're
ready for whatever else nature throws at you. Protect the
life you've built at floodsmart dot gov slash wildfires. What

(01:14:08):
girls in the forest, our imagination and our family bonds.
The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest
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Look for your children's eyes and you will discover the
true magic of a forest. Find a forest near you

(01:14:30):
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Boxing with Chris Mannix - Winning the battle for Canelo

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