On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby discuss some of the highlights from Mike McCarthy’s introductory press conference. Plus, Yahoo Sports’ Charles Robinson stops by to breakdown how the McCarthy hire came together. And former Green Bay Packers Vice President Andrew Brandt joins the show with his thoughts on the type of coach the Cowboys are getting. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Becoming a magician takes thousands of hours, right Ashley. Oh,
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the Container Store today. Hello, boys and girls, Welcome in
to the Boys and Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network
reporter Jane Slater and NFL Network producer Bobby Bell, a
(00:45):
cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys
now coming straight to you from the lone Star State.
Here's Jane and Bobby take glas of her at the
NFL on Fox school Break. The news yere Dallas Cowboys
have moved on from Jason Garrett as their head coach.
The Dallas Cowboys had themselves a new head coach. His
(01:07):
name is Mike McCarthy, former head coach of the Green
Bay Packers. I do want to introduce you to next
coach and the Dallas Cowboys McCarthy. I am anxious and
excited to get to work on winning the next Super
Bowl for the Dallas Cowboys. All right, full disclosure, Bobby.
Last week we did not bring our fans the pot.
I was exhausted, I was tired. I had more questions
(01:29):
and answers. I had literally worked every single source. I
squeezed sources. I tried to find unconventional ways of proving
rumors and thoughts and things that were swirling. But we
have some closure today. We do finally. Yeah, last week,
if we would have done one last week, it would
have been pretty much just the Conspiracy Hour because there
(01:52):
was like nothing concrete. And here's the funny thing. If
we would have recorded that Conspiracy Hour last week, absolutely
none of it would have been accurate as to what
happened because it really went down a road that I
don't think many people anticipated. Now, look, I had a
few details, so we were able to come together. Here's
what we know. Here's what we do know. Now that
we've had the pressor here at the Star in Frisco,
(02:14):
and I should point out that we had to do
this in two parts. This is how crazy it's been
around here. We are going to have the amazing Andrew Brandt,
who gave Mike McCarthy one of his head first head
coaching jobs, which by the way, they also interviewed Sean
Payton at the time. Yeah, it's an interesting parallel there.
We also have the outstanding Charles Robinson from Yahoo Sports, who,
(02:36):
like me, was literally chasing every squirrel through this. So
it's great stuff. But we were not allowed in this
building at the time we recorded it, and I've got
a Michael r of an event later humble brag real quick,
so I've got to rush out of here. So we
wanted to do this in two parts, but we had
so much information we wanted to get it to you guys.
So you're going to hear windy elements making you feel
(02:56):
like you're actually in Green Bay in the second part
of this. And the reason why this is so clear
in the beginning is because this is instant reaction after
the presser. Okay, so we still have I feel like
we asked some answers, but I still got a lot
of questions. Yeah, but what we also got was a charismatic,
a reflective, a funny, an insightful head coach, very different
(03:21):
than what we were used to Jason Garrett and Dallas. Yeah,
and I kind of wonder if that's just, you know,
the honeymoon phase, and he'll probably stand up there next
year during the season and brush us off and be
a little gruff like I think it's kind of been
his reputation. But I think it was just it was
a happy day for everybody. As much as I think
(03:41):
the Cowboys struggled with are we going to move on?
Are we gonna make this decision? As much as it
was tough for them to walk away from Jason Garrett.
As Jerry Jones sat out there today, in the thirty
years I've been here, only two of those years have
I not written a check to a Garrett between his
dad and kind of hit me in different ways, said that, Yeah,
it was a little confusing first, and then I got it.
(04:02):
As he continued to tell it was like, oh, Okay,
get what he means. But as much as we thought
it was going to be difficult for them to walk away,
everybody up there today, Stephen, Jerry, and obviously Mike McCarthy.
Everybody seemed pretty much at peace with the move, and
I don't think there's any I don't think there's any
bad feelings. I think there they feel okay about the move.
Not only does Mike McCarthy look like he could be
(04:24):
a Jones brother from Arkansas, which was very odd to me,
his humor and his ability to just sort of talk
off the cuffs charisma felt very in line with them.
And then here's what we learned and what we didn't
fully know. There was first reported that he had stayed
(04:44):
at the Jones's house. Instead we found out that he
spent two days here in the DFW area, but he
actually stayed at the hotel here at the at the Omni.
But he might as well stay there because they said
the meeting started at one pm and lasted until one am.
And if you've ever into the Combine or you've ever
been to the super Bowl, the Jones family, even Jerry
(05:05):
at seventy seven, man, they love a good time. I
enjoy my time around them when they're having a good time.
Our Noboo parties, the media party in Malibu is a
good time. So first of all, I wish that I'd
had a ticket to that, but listen to this story
about there were two things that were revealed. One here's
the story where Jerry says, Jerry Junior, of all people,
(05:30):
was the one that told him get the ball rolling.
Jerry came up to me while we were in the
middle of the night and he slides down to the
edge at the end of the table. Mike was sitting
here and Jerry reached silver and he said, now, what
are you waiting on? And he said you need to
(05:51):
know this. I know we haven't had a meeting or anything,
but Stephen said, Stephen is ready to roll here and
said you need to know that because we hadn't been
able to get a talk. And I said, well, I
just hated to that it looked like appear what it appears,
And he said, when have you ever worried about it?
(06:12):
How looked? And so we winked at Stephen and he
got up and we came in. Next thing I know
he was wearing it out, was Tracy in the other
room working on it. Boy. And then this admission from
Mike McCarthy, who, by the way, had talked to some
other teams what seemed like the singular moment that he
(06:32):
had decided that Dallas was his destiny. But I didn't
need to tell a story about Saturday night when I
was here on the interview And here I am sitting
across the table Stephen, Jerry Jones, Jerry Jr. Will McClay,
Todd Williams, and Jerry's telling a story about the purchase
(06:54):
of the Dallas Cowboys. And at the end of the story,
he leans over to me and he grows him bout
a by the forearm and reaches out to shake my hand.
He says, and you need to be the coach of
the Dallas Cowboys. So I dropped off and hogged him.
But I'll and I'll stop right there. We had a
hell of a time. But now that's that's a moment.
(07:17):
That's a moment, and that's a story I'll be telling
the rest of my life. So um, I can't just
tell you how thrilled my family are and I are here,
are thrilled to be here. Okay, So I'm loving all
of this, right But this is where it gets even
better now. They kind of alluded to it at the
press conference because I asked Mike McCarthy, when did you
first make contact with the Cowboys, Because it's my theory.
(07:40):
And you'll hear from Charles Robinson a little bit that
he was not the front runner, that this was not
the guy that they had done extensive research on. I
keep going back to Tom Pellicero to serves part of
this man's contract because he made Mike McCarthy all of
a sudden sexy. He's like the guy that took the
guy that was another man's trash, and it was like,
you know what, We're gonna take you to make over
(08:02):
boot camp and I'm gonna make you look sexy again
to other gms. But what made him sexy in my mind,
to Jerry Jones, was the man that reflects in the mirror,
the man that wants a second chance. Here's two soundbites
from Mike McCarthy today and then Mike McCarthy in that
NFL piece that I said, oh my gosh, the candidate
(08:25):
has been sitting right underneath our nose. Listen. In this
past year has been a year of reflection. My wife said,
I want to make it through ten words. I think
I got the about six, but reflection of just what
a blessed man I am. Great moments that I've been
a part of, you know, I'm married to love of
my life wife. My wife is a love of my life.
(08:47):
You know, we have beautiful children, come from a blessed family,
you know, and professionally was able to lift the Lombardi Trophy.
Why do you need to do this? Why do you
need to go move the family out of Green Bay?
You know? It's it's interesting. It's a very selfish profession.
Um coaching in the NFL. I think that's that's a given, um.
(09:10):
But what I've found through this transition is, uh, excuse me.
What I found is our family needs us. You know,
(09:33):
I don't know what that's a question. Sorry, we need
to do this. So this is something that are I
feel like it's just because everything has happened and this
will be a great This will be a great opportunity
for us. When he says we needed football, Bobby, there
were tears in his eyes. Who doesn't love sending a
(09:54):
message to you with tears in his eyes more than
our guy Jerry Jones. Oh yeah, that that tears will
resonate with Jerry more than anything else. I think that's
why he tries to use them on the media scrums Sometimes.
I look, I am not saying they're not authentic. Here's
what I love about Jerry. He believes it. And the
thing about Jerry, if you're on team Jerry, Jerry will
(10:16):
fight for you tooth and nail. Ask Michael Irvin, ask
Jason Garrett. So I loved all of this right, but
this was this is where the presser just took a
real interesting turn. To me, Jason Garrett, what went down
with all this? Jerry wasn't completely explicit about it. So
(10:36):
I caught up with Stephen Jones after it all, and
I asked him about as as it explicitly as possible,
as plainly as I needed answers. You know, when you've
been chasing the squirrel so long, I need answer, Stephen,
what happened with Jason? Why did he keep coming up
to the Star in Frisco every single day? Why was
it leaked that he was desperately clinging to his job?
(11:00):
Here's what Stephen said, Stephen, get a little bit of clarity.
Why two meetings with Jason Garrett and allowing him to
continue the exit interviews? Did you have another coach in mind?
When did you make contact? In my word, I'm just
looking for some clarity in the timeline there's really no
clarity for Jason. We had communication with Jason every step
of the way, and we wanted to be very respectful,
(11:21):
and you know, pretty much all of our action was
in line with what Jason wanted, and we had nothing
but utmost respect for him, and we used his timeline
and he understood that we were having, you know, having
to do our job too. Man, you know, he knew
exactly what we were doing. Was there ever a possibility
that he could stay here? In other words, you guys said,
(11:41):
let's go through the exhaustive search, and there's still I
knew we were moving moving down the road with other coaches.
So it reads like a telenovela. I gotta tell you,
I love all of it because as a reporter, you
love putting the pieces of the puzzle together. And I
am exhausted because I literally tried to flip over every rock.
And we'll talk about coaching and staff and everything that
(12:02):
we've run down in our next one, because like I said,
this one's jam packed. But Bobby, I also got to
tell you we wanted pop culture references and man, we Mike,
you won me over right out of the gate. Does
anyone can anyone tell me what this sounds like. Wow.
First of all, thank you. It is great to be here.
And I'm having a moment here because I don't know
(12:24):
where the hell put in my hands. I never said
at a table for a press conference, So excuse me,
I'm not sure what to do with my hand. Be good,
just to hold them down by your side. Yeah, great,
it's so beautiful. It's so Will Ferrell, it's so beautiful, Ricky, Bobby,
it's so beautiful. And then like I said that, Jason
Garrett stuff, it just it feels like, hey, eighties fans,
pop culture reference. Remember Ducky. When we were talking about
(12:47):
interviewing coach McCarthy, Jason was talking about what a great
guy is and how his story and how much we
were going to enjoy just that part of it investing with.
If you don't go to him now, I'm never going
to take you to another problem ever again. Hear me,
missing an incredibly romantic moment and you're ruining, all right.
(13:08):
So in conclusion, of course, we're going to bring in
Like I said, Charles Robinson and Andrew Brandt, I gotta
tell you, Jerry said something in the presser. He said,
this is lightning in a bottle. It's fortuitous, you know,
as he was reminding the press conference, there has never
been a head coach to win a Super Bowl with
not one, but two teams. But Jerry just feels it.
(13:31):
I drink the kool Aid from time to time. I do.
I even drank the kool Aid, and Jerry's just so
we're drinking the kool aid a month and a half
ago and guard maybe Jason can prepare for the possibility,
my new prepare for the possibility. Prepare for the possibility
that this guy that wasn't at the top of their
list might take him to the top of the mountain again.
(13:53):
Oh goodness. I don't know that I can trust that,
but it wasn't It was good to see, uh, you know,
an encouraging sign. A guy who is a free agent,
Randall Cobb, who spent so much time with Mike McCarthy.
He was out there today being supportive. You had Travis Frederick,
Zach Martin and a few other guys were out there.
So there's excitement around here. They all seem pretty happy,
I think, especially on you know, the front offs Love.
(14:15):
I think Jerry and Steven seemed really excited. The players
seemed excited, and I mean Mike McCarthy genuinely does seem
like he couldn't be happier to be back around the
game of football. If I had to assess how that
press conference went, Jerry and Stephen couldn't have gotten a
better pressor from a coach that everyone loved what Matt
(14:36):
Rule had to say. I gotta tell you, I thought
Mike McCarthy at this one out of the park other two.
I think he did really really well today. And look,
I mean we'll have time, like you said, to talk
about some of the stuff that's changing. With the assistant coaches.
I mean, they didn't want to talk about scheme at
all today. Mike McCarthy got asked a few questions about
it and said this isn't the place where I'm gonna
answer these things. We've got reviews to do, interviews to do. Said.
(14:57):
He essentially said he hasn't had spoken to the assistant
coaches because he said we'll start interviewing them. And I
thought was fascinating because quick update Sanji Law expected out
wide receivers coach Gary Brown the running backs coaches had
no contact with them, although I did report on NFL
Network on Monday that they reached out to a running
backs coach candidate. I know that candidate is also in
(15:19):
play for at least another NFL job, so we'll see
if that happens or if they decided to fall back
on Gary. I can tell you his players wanted back. Yeah,
one of the most important players wants him back. Offensive
line Coachmark Colombo actually had to set up his own
meeting with the Joneses. Even though he had two years
on his contract he walked out of They're not feeling
confident about his future here. Instead, I'm told that Joe
(15:41):
Philbin is the guy that they're eye eyeing for offensive line,
but also as the run coordinator. Joe Philban was the
guy who when Mike McCarthy was fired, took over, took
over his enterim head coach in Green Bay. Fascinating, but
also I was told possible assistant head coach. So that's
something for us to keep an eye on in the
weeks in days to come. Mike Nolan defensive coordinator is
(16:02):
who we're hearing. And then at secondary, keep an eye
on one. I think I'm going to rule out, but
I think Tony Oden is another one on the radar
to keep an eye on. And then who else Joe
Witt Junior. I don't think he's gonna end up ultimately
coming to Dallas, but I think we should keep an
eye on Tony Odin. And then it sounds like he
(16:24):
likes Kellen Moore. Yes, yeah, he spoke really positively about
what he saw on film when he was studying the
Cowboys and was really impressed with Kellen, which, by the way, well,
you've got to drop this for the fans too. I
keep lying. There's just so much that I want to
drop in here. Can we talk about what made him
so relatable to me? How many of you have oversold
your qualifications in an interview? Most everyone? I think, Okay,
(16:46):
well here's here's our boy. Mike McCarthy just, oh my god.
For the win. You said you analyzed every play or
watched every play of the entire twenty nineteen season. What
is it that you learn from that experience that you
think will be I think you most here. Well, I
mean I need to confess. I mean I told Jerry
I watched every play the two thousand nineteen season, but
I wanted a job, so I have I haven't watched
(17:14):
every play of the season, but it was just, uh,
I mean, you do what you gotta do, right, So
we didn't watch a lot of tape. But again, if
you go back to my boy Tom pilis there, we
need to get him on the podcast to talk about everything.
He at least watched a bunch of Dallas and Dak
Prescott on this offense. He said that this offense is
going to be built around the quarterback to make them successful,
(17:36):
that the run game is going to be important, that
Zeke is going to get the ball, but as you said,
would not clarify whether it's going to be a four
three or three four. Yeah, happened to say the best
way to make a quarterback is successful is with a
great running game, which kind of runs counter to analytics,
which again again we're not going to dive into how
good the higher is. We can do that on the
next one. Yeah, there is a lot, but overall, generally,
(17:57):
I think from just an entertainment apoint this was it
was a pretty great press conference. If you love to
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AD Council. All right. Joining us now on the podcast
is Charles Robinson, senior NFL reporter for Yahoo. And you've
also got a pod, Charles, go ahead and drop it
for the for the fans that just can't get enough
of sports talk. But yeah, we did. We actually did
(19:47):
a long walk through today for our podcast on Mike
McCarthy and the Cowboys. So the Yahoo Sports NFL podcast
with myself and for a sailor, we welcome end in
New dal Cowboys subscribe verse obviously doing our best to
build the audience there, and yeah, they could tip in
and take a list in this week, that'll be great.
You become such a good follow I know a lot
(20:08):
of Cowboy fans have, have, you know, clung to some
of your articles and some of the legwork you've done.
I certainly know you did a lot of it, as
did all of us, trying to get to the bottom
of why Jason Garrett was still in this building, why
we hadn't heard of a coaching week so let's just
go ahead and walk through the last week. You've been
a reporter for a while. How curious was this whole saga?
(20:34):
It was bizarre to the point of, you know, there
was a point where I sat there and I thought, Okay,
you know, I've I've been doing this really for twenty years.
If I go back to, you know, the first team
I've recovered out of colleges of the Detroit Lions, and
I took about five years off to do an investigative.
But I thought, okay, the fifteen years that I've really
kind of hovered around a lot of the NFL. Ever, remember,
(20:57):
you know, a search process like this where there was
an ambiguity as long as there was it was like
Jason who clearly wanted to remain, and then a search
process that started with two candidates that even I initially thought, okay,
there's a sham. They're just getting their sea legs right now. Yeah,
I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. And
(21:19):
I would ask you, is it not clear now? Like
this is my I feel like I feel like I
have it dialed in. I'm curious what you think of it?
Is it not clear that they back Bernard Jason as
a sort of a break good glass option, and that
Jason like allowed it basically one thousand percent. Charles, I
(21:39):
mean you and I. You know, I followed you on
Twitter and I read your columns, and you know, I
talked to other reporters, obviously just here in the local market,
and we were all I can't even explain how many
rocks that I turned over trying to find clues. I mean,
to your point, I was also an investigative reporter and
a news reporter, and I put all of those skills
(22:01):
to use on this one. And as crazy as it sounds,
I truly believe that they left the door not they
not Stephen, Jerry left the door open for the possibility
of Jason being this building or if he was going
to do right by him, be kind, showing abundance of respect.
They would have just said goodbye to him on Monday,
(22:22):
following his meeting with the players and the exit interviews.
But to drag it out on Tuesday, and the fact
that they this third meeting was leaked, which was crazy
to meet and I had said, I can't confirm this
third meeting. We had reported and knew that they were
in Aspen, and then all of a sudden, you've got
these inter curious interviews, by the way, with a guy
like Marvin Lewis and Mike McCarthy over the weekend, and
(22:46):
I just felt like Mike McCarthy was never a front runner.
They had not done their due diligence on him. They
had perhaps seen the Tom Pella Sero report and thought, wow,
that's interesting, let's bring him in here and talk to him.
And I think I said this on King's podcast, and
I talked to Jim Rome this week. I think Jerry
is such a guy that's about redemption, looking in the mirror,
(23:08):
second chances, innovation, being an old dog that can learn
new tricks. And I think Mike McCarthy had every single
buzzword at the right time, and that was what took
Jerry Jones over the edge, and so Stephen brought him
to the table. In my opinion, it was the buzzwords,
the timing, the things that really make Jerry Jones go
(23:31):
that put this one over the edge. And when they realized, look,
we found our guy. If we've got a guy like
this out there available that's won a Super Bowl, how
can we possibly continue the insanity that has been Jason Garrett. Great, Yeah,
I'm looking. And the funny thing about this is you
can't really claim Mike McCarthy like it will be if
(23:54):
this is really successful. I'm excited to see how the
look back goes because if this becomes well, we always
like Mike always, we always thought the world of Mike,
and he was he was really at the top of
our list. Well, if he's on the top of your list,
why did you let him go interview a couple of
other teams. Yeah, you don't do that, Like if he's
your guy, Um, you just do not let him do that.
(24:16):
And I think, as I said, it was the process
was just so weird. You talk about turning over all
the rocks, and I think I was with you. You know,
we're all following each other and we're all kind of
paying attention to what everyone else is doing, and I'm
sure you know we're overlapping each other and calling sources
(24:37):
all these things. And it wasn't until late in the
week where I realized, like, hey, there's actually a reason
they're not reaching out to these college coaches. There's a reason.
Part of it, I think was there's no candidate list.
You know, we and I think that was unmasked a
little bit by Mike and Marvin being the first two
people in the door. But then, you know, once once
(24:58):
Mike and Marvin went through the process, two things clarified
from the number one. Late in the week, Matt Rule
was kind of dialing in his process. And what was
interesting was he liked the Cowboys roster quite a bit.
You know, he really liked the Giant situation, he liked
the Carelinn situation. Knew those were there for him, but
(25:18):
it was like this lingering question the back of his mind, like,
I really liked Dallas' roster, and yet I don't seem
to be like even a thought process in Dallas right now.
And I think that he used him a little bit,
which I thought was really interesting. And then once Mike
and Marvin had gone through the process, then I had
a chance to talk to some people right in the
middle of the weekend, it became clear to me because
(25:40):
we were telling me Jerry wants someone experienced, Well, he
didn't want to mess around this is the transition or
this or that, and you know, so I think that
probably helped Mike. But as you said, Mike spent a
year preparing for this moment to walk into a room
with a coaching book. And from what I understand, he
was very in honest about you know, what he sort
(26:02):
of felt went wrong in the bay or why why
I didn't sort of work at the end there. And
I'm sure that that held a lot of way, you know,
with Jerry, Like you said, the redemption process, the ability
to eat a mistake. Now, but I learned from it. Um.
You know, Jerry's big on learning and then also showing
here's the way I'm going to tell myself back in
(26:23):
for success. I want you got to talk though about
the craziness of the process. You can't. I don't want
to move past that without the seven minutes of Nick
Saban in the middle. Like you gotta talk about the
seven minutes of Nick Saban, Right, We're going to talk
about that. I know you ran it down there. I
had gotten a tip if people knew the things that
(26:46):
I ran down, I had gotten a tip on I
believe it was Thursday night that the Cowboys were high
on Nick Saban, and I said, oh my gosh, now
this makes sense. Jerry wouldn't be lying to us. Here's
a guy that's had NFL head coaching experience. Here's a
guy that's coaching, but this wouldn't make sense. He just
signed another ridiculous extension. The buyout would be absurd. You
(27:10):
and I had heard about the possibility of them not
being afraid of spending money and buyouts to get certain
coaches that they were interested in. So of course I
reach out to his agent and people close to him,
and they literally laughed my head off. But I brought
it up. But this is a sort of stuff that
was going and I truly believe the Urban stuff. While
that meeting one hundred percent happened between Stephen and Urban,
(27:35):
I believe Urban was just out there creating the spin
zone yea. And the Lincoln Riley thing, I could never
get anyone to tell me that that was legit at all.
So I never ever, ever thought that Lincoln was anything
but the Matt Rule thing I thought was intriguing. I
thought Matt Rule was intriguing because of what he did
(27:55):
at Baylor, the way he was able to turn things around.
I couldn't get Matt and his people to call me back, though,
and so that was that was also where I couldn't
mark him off my list. Dan Mullin never got back
to me. So that was a guy couldn't mark off
my list. But I mean we we chased down everything.
And yeah, and as you know that, people talk, I
mean agencies talk, agents talk, friends of players. I remember
(28:20):
when we were here covering the Rangers, a little girl
told her school teacher that her dad was getting ready
to go be a Cleveland Indian. And that's how we
found out he was no longer going to be. I mean,
people talk. No one talked about any of this. Yeah,
this was the h it was the rare like but
but I that's the funny thing is when you got
to the Marvin Mike part of it, that's when it
(28:43):
sort of solidified. But now you know, there really wasn't
this list, this you know, list that was vaulted away
of ten guys. Like here's ten guys. We're gonna go
after it, like you didn't you know that. I thought
that's what's gonna happen. You know, it's gonna be the
normal process. They're gonna let go of Jason the next
day after season ends. They'll let him go through his
(29:03):
process for a day and then they'll announce that they're
moving on. It'll be cordial, maybe there'll be a press
comp we'll see how it goes. But then I think
Jason really in those first two interviews expressing to Jerry
how much he wanted to remain open that door to hey,
you know what, let's let's hang on and see, you know,
(29:23):
like there's no reason to fire him or to you know,
remove him early if we've still got you know, a
little bit of runway in his contract, and let's see
what other people, you know, what they impress upon us,
and then you know, we really don't like it if
it's not working out, or or there's just you know,
who knows what you can come across with with some
(29:44):
of the candidates that they might have stacked up, you
can always turn back into Jason. And yeah, it was
just it was wild. I mean the Knick Stavan thing
was crazy. Right in the middle of it. I mean,
there were so many, you know, different names. As you said,
I mean, you ran everybody down. I'm running everybody down
trying to I'm literally it's funny you brought up Dan
Mullen because, um, I mean my best effort to get
(30:05):
to Dan Mullen. And then it was sort of the
Matt rule of thing where later in the week. It
was like I had a chance to talk to somebody
really close to Dan. He was like, Dan keeps asking
me that do you think I have a shot at
the Cowboy? And I'm like, okay, well, it was just
process of elimination, and so you know, when you're doing
the legwork and you're checking all these people off. And
(30:26):
then I thought the other curious thing was that a
lot of these coaches that are currently on staff, they
weren't hearing anything. And by the way, at the time
of the taping of this broadcast, they still haven't heard
anything from Stephen Jones, Mike McCarthy, whatever. So you know,
we'll we'll dive into that later in the week, and
especially you know, as we start hearing about who these
(30:46):
coaches are that get announced. But the whole thing was
just so curious to me, the way they went about it.
And I'm going to be interested to see what they
tell us about how long they knew Mike was there, man,
because I truly believe to your point. You know, I
had been told that Jason was shown up to work
every day with this large binder under his arm, and
while that binder could have been all of his exit interviews.
(31:09):
My gut tells me mister Princeton was putting together a
PowerPoint presentation about how he was going to turn things around.
Like Mike McCarthy, but he was going to tell him
how he was going to do it in a matter
of a week. Mike had spent a year doing it, right, Yeah,
And I mean I have no doubt that that was
sort of Jason's coaching book that he would bring into
an interview. You know. I'm sure Jason, being who he
(31:30):
is recreated, sort of sat there and thought, Okay, well,
look how reinterview. That's fine. You know, I have a
couple of weeks left and on my contract that can
reinterview for the jobs. Will only put a coaching book together,
you know. But Mike, I'll say this for Mike McCarthy,
he I know he had team even book far more.
I know he did a little bit of TV when
he dipped out after the Packers, but he definitely had
(31:52):
the opportunity to be quote unquote a TV guy for
a year first season, and he really didn't step into that.
And the fact that he go down and said, okay,
here the knocks on me. Okay, I'm not an analytic
sure of a guy about this, I'm not that. I
let me see if I can, you know, step it
into that and bunkering down for that season and spending
(32:14):
that time really looking at different offenses and trying to
reshape maybe a little bit of his thought process, and
then thinking about the successes and failures in Green Bay
and having a good grasp on that well at the
same time building his pitch. I think that's what paid off.
I really do. And even when you walk into a
situation where I and I fully firmly believe this, and
I think that the staff, when it's laid out, will
(32:37):
bear this out. I think when you walk into that
room and you're ready to have that conversation, if you know,
Jerry Jarones is going to say, or Steam's going to say,
you know, we want some offensive continuity here. We've got
some guys who were like, what would you think about
keeping some of these individuals. I think Mike was ready
for even those questions. And sometimes I think that's where
(32:57):
coaches hit a wall in interviews. They don't like Matt rule.
Matt rule goes to the interview of the jet. I
don't think he realized, you know, they're gonna basically try
to cram Adham Gaze down my throat. And then when
he went through that process, it really really caused the
cratering in that process. And so I think Mike had
the opportunity to think about how would how would I
(33:19):
react if maybe the cows want to keep some people. Um,
you know, I gave it up to him. He did
everything he could to land a job like this, and
even though I wasn't big on how the process went,
I really wanted to blowout. I wanted to see Jerry
not take anyone off the table. I feel like they
sort of ended up with someone where I'm like, Okay,
(33:41):
you know, let's let's see if the Mike McCarthy reclamation
project that he has sold for more than a month
now to the media, Let's see if that's real where
it concerned some of the things that he'll do offensively,
and um, that's really what matters going forward. But I
definitely think it could have done worse. It was just
process itselfless, completely bizarre, and it will be memorable, I
(34:02):
think for the rest of my career. There were a
few things and I'm going to let Bobby Way in
here before I let you cook Charles. But the one
that if people haven't seen, I can't talk enough about this.
It was that sit down that Tom Pellicera did with them,
and you saw the tears at the end and him
talking about the family needed football. I just thought to myself,
that is your sizzle, real for Jerry. Jerry needs football
(34:24):
to his family needs football. Jerry gets emotional about football
and second chances. That was the highlight real. Don't show
me your postseason resume. Like Jerry. The one thing that
you can say about him, whether you love it or
you don't, it's appealing to who he is as a human,
a human that he will tell you over and over
has been flawed, that has been given second chances, people
(34:46):
have counted him out, and the things that he's done
to overcome that. And when I watch that piece, I'm like,
our candidate has been literally undergard nose the whole time.
And as much as a lot of people think that
this is a consolation prize, we're we'll talk to Andrew
Brant here coming up in just a little bit, but
him talking about when you compare these two resumes and
how both of these guys we're up for consideration at
(35:09):
the same time, in Green Bay, and they ultimately went
with Mike. I think is fascinating. But I also think
it's fascinating that this contract is five years, which also
puts us right in line for us to start talking
about Sean Payton here when his contract expires, and it
all comes full circle. Charles always always, I'm sure I
look forward to five years of frenzy. Oh my god,
(35:32):
what are they doing? Is Sean available? And by the way,
Gene will tell you, Bobby will tell you it won't
be five years. Next year were about Sean And yeah,
we'll hear about Sean in the air, like let's think
when the Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy pretty quickly. I
feel like that's the annual right of passage. You know
you nailed. The season has either ended or you know
(35:53):
it's coming wrong. At some point you have the Sean
Payton conversation. And by the way, I want to say
that it's such a great point about the appeal to
Jerry's heart. It really is, because I don't think there's
one owner who I've ever spoken to in all the years,
and I've only had a few like one on one
situations with Jerry where I've seen a guy get tearful,
(36:18):
like especially when he thinks about his beginnings and how
much it in a way scared him, you know, the
potential of failure with the Cowboys and how close he was,
and you know, he likes to tell those stories about
you know, turtain lights off in the facility because you know,
I'm literally all going broke here, and you know he does.
He gets to the point of tears and actually and
(36:40):
and and I can see that you appeal to that
part of Jerry where there's a little bit of um,
you know, not only the gambling mentality, but the desperation
for success. He really buys into that. And you know,
I just think maybe that's what, at least me personally,
maybe that's what I understood in the process on being
(37:00):
able to get in front of Jerry and appeal in
that manner really does matter. And hopefully, hopefully for Jerry,
this is the right decision and it goes the right
way because I just think, for two, in that rule
and knowing that he kind of questioned, likes, why the
cow is not reaching out to me if he has
a lot of success in Carolina and things go really
(37:21):
well and things with Mike don't it's you know, that's
something that at least me personally, I'll be like, look,
I'm gonna revisit that, I'm going to talk to that
and asking why why do you think it happened the
way that it happened where you just didn't hear from them.
That will be one guy that I think will be
compared in this process down the line. So we've talked
about that. You know, the Cowboys maybe didn't have Mike
(37:44):
McCarthy as the top option. We don't know how much
we believe that that was their number one guy from
the outset. But when you talk about Mike McCarthy potentially
appealing to Jerry's side, coming in there with all the
right answers, do you think that Mike McCarthy's top job
as he was going through this whole process, he was
looking towards or Dallas is where I want to end up. Um.
(38:05):
I look, I'll just be real here and I you know,
I'm sure Mike would protest this. I think Mike would
have taken the first job offered to him. Really, I
really do like I think that, um, any of the
jobs that Mike was going to interview for, if he
had the opportunity he would have taken it. And and
I do understand some of that because Mike, you know,
for for whether it's right or wrong, I don't think
(38:26):
that Mike was necessarily considered quote unquote the hot candidate
or the guy with a lot of leverage, you know,
going through the process. I think you know, he could
he could sit for an interview and do well, but
ultimately was he going to have um was it? Was
it a Mike McCarthy buyer's market? You know, I don't,
I don't think so. And um, well it was a
buyer's market. Was a Mike McCarthy seller's market from his standpoint.
(38:48):
So you know, for if someone said to Mike early like, hey,
would Dallas be you know, near the top of your list?
I think for a lot of coaches, Dallas to be
near the top of the list. So long as you
can deal with you know, can you deal with an
owner just going to talk after every game and be
on the radio and going to say things about you know,
your your team. Can you weather that um? As long
(39:12):
as you could come to terms with that um And
then also sort of how personnel works in Dallas, it
was going to be near the top of your list,
and whenever Myer talked about how you know, hey, this
is a it is a be all, end all job.
I think a lot of coaches do feel that way.
So in a weird way, I think it worked out
for Dallas, although I feel like they kind of tripped
(39:34):
into it a little bit, but I think it really
worked out for Mike as well. Um, and it's I
don't when I say that Mike would have taken the
first job offer to him, I want it's going to
sound harsh, but I liken it too. I remember when
Andy Reid got fired from from Philly and he took
the Kansas City job inside of the week. And I
(39:57):
saw Andy this summer after that, and I asked, Andy, man,
I know people were telling take a year off. You've
had some family stuff, there's you know, there's a lot here.
Why not just take some time? And and he was like,
I wanted back. Look I am, I'm not burned out.
I'm ready to go. Like people people have this idea
that you know, um, I just I'm paraphrasing him here,
(40:17):
but he kind of went through this thing. Well, people
have this idea that beet fired and you got to
take time off and recover from it. It's like I
didn't feel that way, like I still want to coach football.
I love it, and and so I do think when
I say Mike would have taken the first job, as
Jane talked about the tears in the NFL network, saying,
I think that's because Mike wasn't burned out. I think
Mike really wanted the opportunity to get right back into
(40:39):
football and didn't feel wiped out. But you know, he
did also get that year to sort of think about
it and process it. So you know, I don't think
I doan Mike can say, hey, I knew this would
be my job, and I don't think. I don't think
Jerry could ever look back and say Mike was our
number one candidate, because I frankly don't even think it's
so late in the sum that's when Mike and even
(41:02):
Marvin popped up late in the problem. I mean, you
talk to people, ever't When Marvin I talked to somebody
close to Marvin Lewis and I said, was this was
this kind of works for a while, And he laughed
and he goes, I don't know for a while, like
and Marvin had interviewed on Friday, he goes by a while.
Do you mean like Friday morning? I'm dead serious on this. Yes,
(41:23):
I think that. I think these ideas came to Fruition
and Aspen while they were sitting around the table having
drinks with the family. The family weighed in, isn't that
a conference? The Aspen Ideas Institute. I think that is
actually a thing. It's it's actually going to be a
ride off this year it was business. Listen, Jane is
(41:45):
just trying to get an assignment, and ask me, Yeah,
I didn't get Hawaii when they went there in the preseason.
I didn't get Cobbo when when Zeke exiled himself there,
and I didn't get Aspen. What I do get is
a one way ticket to Frisco destination back to my
known Yeah, we're doing this podcast outside because we're not
(42:07):
allowed in the building. Before I let you go, i'd
be remiss to say that. I know a lot of
people think US journalists have cold black carts and we
don't care about people. But can we talk about the
tragedy that is Jason Garrett, a guy that we all
thought would be considered for the head coaching job, only
to learn that. No, that guy's Joe Judge And hey, Jason,
(42:27):
if you want to come here and call play something
that was taken away from you and Dallas, something that
people didn't think you could do, we'll bring it here
for the OC gig. Your thoughts on all of that, Yeah,
it was pretty wild that, you know, they put the
request in and then pivoted to Judge pretty quickly. And
I know it's kind of been some debate, you know
(42:49):
about it. It's aditioning because the Giants are like, well,
you know, we put in for head coaching, we put
in for head coaching consideration with Jason. And I think
the reason why they're saying that is because they want
Joe to at least they want it to look like
a Joe could name his own staff. Okay, so we're
not we're not even really pushing Jason on him, but look,
(43:09):
the Giants, John Marri thinks a lot of Jason and um,
you know, and I think he really would like to
have Jason the organization, and I personally have no doubt
he would like to have Jason as the oct I
think he'd like the parent team of Jones. It is.
It's a little bit of a bummer because you know,
I don't Jason me personally, particularly looking at the team
(43:30):
and covering it from the analytical standpoint. Jason always frustrated
me because I always saw a part of Jason when
he would step off that podium, you know, and you
talked to him on the side, and there was just
this part of him where I felt like I didn't
always know how much he was projecting that outwardly to
the fan base. I didn't know much he would always
project that to the players, although I think there was
(43:50):
a lot more of it projected toward the players. Um,
I think. I just it's a bummer that it did
not work out for him, because he did. He's a
guy about it, and there's a lot of craziness that
happens late in a tenure. And it's funny because Mike
McCarthy could talk about that. There was a lot of
craziness that happened in green Bay late in his tenure
(44:11):
that ended up you know, I don't want to say taining,
but it left a malaise on the Green Bay experience
and that's what Jason's going to have to deal with
coming out of Dallas. But I'll also say this, this
was Jason's, you know, and we've spent five personally, spent
a lot of time talking about the second life coaches
since they hired Mike McCarthy. Well, you don't want Jason's
(44:34):
going to be on that list. He will. He's going
to be a candidate for future head coaching jobs. And
I will be very curious to see if Jason is
one of these guys who has a second opportunity and
ends up doing really well because he's had a chance
to get into a new experience and sort of do
the autopsy and what maybe he didn't do perfectly the
(44:54):
first time around, so Dallaphins should get used to it now.
He's not going away. He's going to be an NFL
coach somewhere. It might be a coordinated first, but I
would bet good money that Jason someday will be a
head coach. And Jason, if you're listening, I leave you
with this. When ESPN decided not to re up my
contract as it was approaching expiration and they were making
cuts at Long Worn Network, they asked me to go
(45:17):
and do the SEC Baseball tournament. I went there and
I happened to be with Maria Taylor and Laura Rutledge
and they were talking about some of the power moves
they were making, and Maria was a candidate for the
NFL network. She told me about the job. I asked
her permission to have my agent call, and that has
changed the trajectory of my life. So by Jason doing
the right thing, showing up to work when a lot
(45:37):
of us wouldn't otherwise do that, knowing that people were
out on us, maybe something good happens for him. I
certainly hope it. Throughout this process, I've enjoyed getting to
know you, Charles, and thank you so much for basically
doing our podcast today twenty eight minutes with us here
on the pod. Thank you so much, great insight. And again,
if you guys want to follow Charles Robinson, you can
find him on Twitter and of course you've dropped some
(45:59):
really great articles out there. Again, that's at Charles Robinson
on Twitter. Thanks Charles, well, thank you for yeah, absolutely,
thank you for having me and I have a great
relationship with you guys. But I'm not gonna lie like
there are times where Jane is the bane of my existence,
where I z the whole Zeke contract. I'm like, who's
(46:23):
talking to Jane. Thanks. Whoever talking I'm like, I'm like,
you're not talking to Jane, right, you're talking to me.
Stop talking to We're all here to celebrate each other's winds.
I love the competition. Awesome. Well, let's let's hope that
this is the last time we got to go through
one of the searches for a while. My heart can't
handle it. I need a vacation. Get right to the
(46:44):
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(47:31):
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the forest dot Org, brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the ad Council. And we're live
here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for them.
And there they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom
(47:52):
is coming out the front door strong with a double
arm kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter
is bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper bad
wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom
has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.
And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
(48:12):
nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.
Dead zips the bad clothes and they're off. But looks
like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on
the roof of the car. And there it goes. Oh,
that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't
sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like
making sure your kids are buckle correctly in the right
(48:33):
seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more at NHTSA dot
gov slash the right seat visits NHTSA, dot gov slash
the right Seat brought to you by NITZA and the
ad Council. Well. Joining us now is Andrew Brant. There's
really probably nobody more well equipped to talk to us
about Mike McCarthy in the side of the Cowboys have
(48:54):
made than Andrew. Andrew was on staff with the Packers
as vice president when the McCarthy highre was made aid.
He spent nine years with the Green Bay Packers. He
is now executive vice president at the Morad Center at
Villanova and executive vice president of Vyner Sports. He also
writes columns for the MMQB and you can follow him
on Twitter at Andrew Brant. Andrew, how you doing. I'm
(49:15):
doing well. Always good to be with you guys. And
it just put funny hearing Mike McCarthy hired as I
hired Mike McCarthy's hard to believe it's fourteen years ago
this week time flies. Tell me what drew you guys
to Mike McCarthy when you made the hire in Green Bay?
And do you think it was probably the same sort
of things that drew the Cowboys to him? Here this
(49:36):
time around. Yeah, it's hard to know exactly. I think
back then he was someone that was impressive in the
interview in terms of no nonsense, straight shooter, kind of
that Pittsburgh tough guy without letting you know he's a
tough guy, if you know what I mean, just very direct.
(49:56):
There was never going to be any ps with Mike,
and it was really run by our general manager at
the time, Ted Thompson, and we had some great personnel
guys who are all had been GM since John Schneider
who's now in Seattle. John Dorsey was running the Browns,
Reggie McKenzie was running the Raiders, and myself and there's
(50:18):
just a nice chemistry that developed right away and just quickly.
The other finalist was Sean Payton, and it was really
kind of a dead heat. But the one thing that
pushed Mike over the edge for with us is that
he had been in Green Bay. He had spent one
year on staff as a quarterbacks coach, the one year
(50:38):
that Ray rose with head coach, and that familiarity that
he knew Green Bay, knew people there, he understood the Packers,
which is a different place than anywhere else. They kind
of pushed it over the top. So that's where we
came to hire Mike back in two thousand and six.
John Palaicero did an excellent piece with him this offseason,
and I've joked that Mike mccarthios him about ten percent
(51:00):
of this contract for helping rebrand McCarthy and get him
back out there on the open market. Have you watched it?
As my first question and then my follow up, if
you have, what stood out about some of the moves
he made in the off season, you know, the guys
sort of looking in the mirror. Yeah, I saw some
of it, maybe not the whole flip, but some of
it with Tom. And by the way, Tom was covering
(51:21):
the packers when I get out there for the local paper. Listen, Mike,
I can speak to this on a personal level. It
is very hard to live in Green Bay with Thompson
and not work for the Packers. And that's just a
you know, just a feeling. I probably waited with the Packers,
(51:44):
and there were a few months before we moved out,
and that's not easy because everything is Packers. I mean,
you can't go out of your house without talking about
the Packers. So I feel for Mike, you know, of course,
his wife's from there, as little kid there, he got
a great house there. I can see why I didn't move.
(52:05):
But I know that's tough. You know, it's one thing
to be removed from a job and go somewhere else
and get ready for next job. To do it there
with a new coach, with the team doing so well,
with all the noise about him and Aaron and everything else,
That's what it really felt for him. And I think,
like a lot of coaches, doesn't matter where, Green Baby, anywhere.
(52:28):
You know it's in your blood and you miss it. Again,
it's not about me. But when I lost away from
the NFL after nine and a half years, I'm like,
I'm good. You know, I'm going to do different things.
I had my time there, Been there, done that, But
I think for coaches and like Mike, it's very different.
So I just felt like he was shown himself his
(52:52):
vulnerability is humanity and his love for coaching. To follow
up on that, you know, he talked a lot about
trying to get more innovative studying the offenses. Particularly one
of them was Dak Prescott and this Cowboys offense. It's
all lip service right now until we actually see its application.
But from what you came to know of Mike, is
he the type of guy that's capable of adapting that
(53:14):
there is a pliability about him? You know, I think so,
And maybe the answer wouldn't have been as easy as
saying that four two, three, four years ago, settled in
his ways over a decade in Green Bay being away
from it. Sure, you know, I'm sure he's I saw
the piece about just going to work every day and
(53:36):
figuring out new offensive concepts. And when I interviewed Mike
fourteen years ago, I'm not a scout, I'm not a
football you know, I don't know XS and host. But
listening to him, wow, you know that was impressive in
Sean Payton, like wow, you know, working the boundary and
perimeter and all these words I didn't know in terms
of offensive football. So I think he'll be pliable. And
(53:58):
he's inheriting Dak at kind of a time in his
career there, you know, he inherited Aaron, And you know,
when I was with Mike and Aaron, Aaron was largely
the backup, but Brett would go to Mississippi from January
to July basically, and it was Mike and Aaron and
(54:22):
those three years before Aaron was given the keys to
the franchise, it was like, wow, you know, there's some
real development going on there are those are kind of
special times where you have a new coach and a
quarterback in waiting working together in these quiet moments in
March and April and May. Some people are starting to
(54:45):
wonder or One of the thoughts coming out of this
season with Dallas being as disappointing as they were was
that they may have lacked some discipline or or they
maybe could have used more of a drill sergeant type.
I know you said McCarthy's a no nonsense guy. Do
you think he's the type of guy to come in
here and I guess crack the whip a little bit
and restore some discipline for this team. Yeah. I don't
(55:05):
know if he said to crack the whip guy. I
do know this, he's got a good emotional intelligence about him.
He as I said, this kind of a gruff Pittsburgh guy.
I really knew when to when to hold and wanted
to fold him. I mean, we'd have bad losses and
you'd come in expect some expletive lace to dreaming, and
(55:29):
he didn't do that. You know, he really picked his spot.
He made a good intelligence about there. But listen, there
was no lack of discipline problems when I was around,
Like you know, it didn't have to be said, it was,
it was understood. And I've been around teams where we
did have some discipline issues, so that was not a problem.
(55:51):
I want your thoughts on this, And perhaps it's not
a fair question given that you interviewed Mike McCarthy earlier
in his career, as well as Sean Payton. Both of
these guys, of course ended up going to get Super
Bowls with their respective teams. But you know, I think
for some in Dallas, when Mike McCarthy's hire was announced,
it felt like a consolation price. In other words, this
fan base has always wanted the best, and in their minds,
(56:12):
it's been Sean Payton, it's been the Bill Belichick. Is
Mike McCarthy a consolation prizer? Are these guys more similar
than we give Mike credit for? You know, it's interesting
a couple of things. First of all, he's obviously the
only candidate Skins on the wall. You know, super Bowl, multiple,
multiple playoffs. You know, Green Bay's a special place. I
(56:34):
was there nine years, we missed the playoffs. Once he
was there fourteen years. I think they missed the playoffs.
I don't know three times in fourteen years. So everyone
wants that. You know, you can sign up for that right.
The other thing, and I've done some radio down there,
and I've said this. I talked to two teams about
(56:58):
Mike McCarthy that either have hired or looking for a
head coach. I did not talk to the Dallas Cowboys.
So he I mean, I don't know if the word
is in demand, but he was top candidates this year,
maybe the top candidate because the teams I talked to
(57:21):
they were a impressed and be just like, what do
we don't know? I mean, he, oh, do you know
anything about him? We should be worried about. I mean,
this guy's great. I'm like nothing I know to be
worried about. So listen he I don't know if he
(57:42):
had other offers. I don't know how many options, how
these these other teams progressed, But I will say that
I talked to two teams that inquired about Mike that
called me, and one they were not balanced. So Andrew,
just last question for you, because this is all He's
going to be the question, I think for a lot
of people outside of Dallas and also inside of Dallas.
(58:04):
But given what you know about Mike McCarthy, and I'm
sure you have some general understanding of Jerry Jones having
been in the league at the same time as him,
is that a relationship you think that can last? Or
is that a personality mesh there you think Mike McCarthy
and Jerry Jones. Yeah, I mean I think listen, it's
it's diametrically opposite. For Green Bay, of course, because we
have no owner. We had, you know, millions of chiefs
(58:27):
heads as their owners, and there was little to no interference.
Having said that, the teams I talked to about Mike,
he was up front with them. He was not them
to him that, Hey, I just want to coach, you know,
(58:48):
I don't get involved in personnel salary cap you know,
I want to coach. And if he's telling other teams that,
I'm sure that drives well with what's the setup in
Dallas and makes sense. So you know, all of that
made sense to me. The other things that impressed the
teams I talked to him that had talked to Mike
(59:10):
was like he didn't have a set group of coaches
to come with him, because a lot of coaches they
sort of put together their guys, their buddies. If they
get a job, they bring them with him. He wasn't
set on that, and he said, you know, I got
some guys out there that I've coached against that really
were impressive, and maybe I can go after them that
(59:34):
he didn't even know. So that was impressive and I'm
sure he's doing that now. Wants to coach reflective, doesn't
want to handle personnel. Now, I think we're kind of
getting a little bit of inside as to why the
Cowboys made this decision so quickly. Now it all makes sense. Well.
Andrew Brandt does wonderful work. You can read a stuff
(59:55):
over at the MMQB. You can check out his podcast,
The Business of Football. Here's nobody better on the business
of the NFL than Andrew brands And you can give
them follow on Twitter out Andrew brand Andrew, thanks so
much for joining us, having to do it in jorga
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ad Council. So yeah, as you could hear quite the
sound difference from the beginning of the show into the
(01:01:44):
interviews and then back here now with all the wind
out there. But I gotta say that even with the
windy conditions, it wouldn't have been possible without our friends
at road who gave us this mixer that allowed us
to record inside and outside. Today. It was very travel
friendly today it came through in the clutch. So and
Bobby is such a perfectionist. He wants this to sound
the best that he possibly can. I don't know if
(01:02:06):
you guys know this, but he is the one that
mixes this down for us, puts all of this thing together.
You're the reason why this thing makes it go. We
certainly have a lot to talk about, like I said,
in the weeks and months to come. So on the
next podcast, let's deep dive into some of these new
coordinators the staff. If they haven't been announced, we'll talk
about the rumored ones, what they're planning on bringing the
table and then what's ahead twenty six free agents, Dak
(01:02:29):
Prescott's contract, Amari Cooper's contract, Shaun Witten's, Shaunley and Jason
Witten's future, and I will be rested up. I will
be allowed to return back to my life that is
not at the Star because I am afraid that Jerry
is going to start paying or start charging me rent
because I've been here so much. Guys, thanks for listening
(01:02:50):
to us. We appreciate you guys shouting out to us
on social media looking for us to drop this pod.
So we hope you guys enjoy this one. I'm not
sure what to do with my hand. I would be
good just home down by your side. Yeah great. If
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Becoming a magician takes thousands of hours, right Ashley. Oh,
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the Container Store today. Hello, boys and girls, Welcome in
to the Boys and Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network
reporter Jane Slater and NFL Network producer Bobby Bell, a
(00:45):
cowboys community with the inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys
now coming straight to you from the lone Star State.
Here's Jane and Bobby take glas of her at the
NFL on Fox school Break. The news yere Dallas Cowboys
have moved on from Jason Garrett as their head coach.
The Dallas Cowboys had themselves a new head coach. His
(01:07):
name is Mike McCarthy, former head coach of the Green
Bay Packers. I do want to introduce you to next
coach and the Dallas Cowboys McCarthy. I am anxious and
excited to get to work on winning the next Super
Bowl for the Dallas Cowboys. All right, full disclosure, Bobby.
Last week we did not bring our fans the pot.
I was exhausted, I was tired. I had more questions
(01:29):
and answers. I had literally worked every single source. I
squeezed sources. I tried to find unconventional ways of proving
rumors and thoughts and things that were swirling. But we
have some closure today. We do finally. Yeah, last week,
if we would have done one last week, it would
have been pretty much just the Conspiracy Hour because there
(01:52):
was like nothing concrete. And here's the funny thing. If
we would have recorded that Conspiracy Hour last week, absolutely
none of it would have been accurate as to what
happened because it really went down a road that I
don't think many people anticipated. Now, look, I had a
few details, so we were able to come together. Here's
what we know. Here's what we do know. Now that
we've had the pressor here at the Star in Frisco,
(02:14):
and I should point out that we had to do
this in two parts. This is how crazy it's been
around here. We are going to have the amazing Andrew Brandt,
who gave Mike McCarthy one of his head first head
coaching jobs, which by the way, they also interviewed Sean
Payton at the time. Yeah, it's an interesting parallel there.
We also have the outstanding Charles Robinson from Yahoo Sports, who,
(02:36):
like me, was literally chasing every squirrel through this. So
it's great stuff. But we were not allowed in this
building at the time we recorded it, and I've got
a Michael r of an event later humble brag real quick,
so I've got to rush out of here. So we
wanted to do this in two parts, but we had
so much information we wanted to get it to you guys.
So you're going to hear windy elements making you feel
(02:56):
like you're actually in Green Bay in the second part
of this. And the reason why this is so clear
in the beginning is because this is instant reaction after
the presser. Okay, so we still have I feel like
we asked some answers, but I still got a lot
of questions. Yeah, but what we also got was a charismatic,
a reflective, a funny, an insightful head coach, very different
(03:21):
than what we were used to Jason Garrett and Dallas. Yeah,
and I kind of wonder if that's just, you know,
the honeymoon phase, and he'll probably stand up there next
year during the season and brush us off and be
a little gruff like I think it's kind of been
his reputation. But I think it was just it was
a happy day for everybody. As much as I think
(03:41):
the Cowboys struggled with are we going to move on?
Are we gonna make this decision? As much as it
was tough for them to walk away from Jason Garrett.
As Jerry Jones sat out there today, in the thirty
years I've been here, only two of those years have
I not written a check to a Garrett between his
dad and kind of hit me in different ways, said that, Yeah,
it was a little confusing first, and then I got it.
(04:02):
As he continued to tell it was like, oh, Okay,
get what he means. But as much as we thought
it was going to be difficult for them to walk away,
everybody up there today, Stephen, Jerry, and obviously Mike McCarthy.
Everybody seemed pretty much at peace with the move, and
I don't think there's any I don't think there's any
bad feelings. I think there they feel okay about the move.
Not only does Mike McCarthy look like he could be
(04:24):
a Jones brother from Arkansas, which was very odd to me,
his humor and his ability to just sort of talk
off the cuffs charisma felt very in line with them.
And then here's what we learned and what we didn't
fully know. There was first reported that he had stayed
(04:44):
at the Jones's house. Instead we found out that he
spent two days here in the DFW area, but he
actually stayed at the hotel here at the at the Omni.
But he might as well stay there because they said
the meeting started at one pm and lasted until one am.
And if you've ever into the Combine or you've ever
been to the super Bowl, the Jones family, even Jerry
(05:05):
at seventy seven, man, they love a good time. I
enjoy my time around them when they're having a good time.
Our Noboo parties, the media party in Malibu is a
good time. So first of all, I wish that I'd
had a ticket to that, but listen to this story
about there were two things that were revealed. One here's
the story where Jerry says, Jerry Junior, of all people,
(05:30):
was the one that told him get the ball rolling.
Jerry came up to me while we were in the
middle of the night and he slides down to the
edge at the end of the table. Mike was sitting
here and Jerry reached silver and he said, now, what
are you waiting on? And he said you need to
(05:51):
know this. I know we haven't had a meeting or anything,
but Stephen said, Stephen is ready to roll here and
said you need to know that because we hadn't been
able to get a talk. And I said, well, I
just hated to that it looked like appear what it appears,
And he said, when have you ever worried about it?
(06:12):
How looked? And so we winked at Stephen and he
got up and we came in. Next thing I know
he was wearing it out, was Tracy in the other
room working on it. Boy. And then this admission from
Mike McCarthy, who, by the way, had talked to some
other teams what seemed like the singular moment that he
(06:32):
had decided that Dallas was his destiny. But I didn't
need to tell a story about Saturday night when I
was here on the interview And here I am sitting
across the table Stephen, Jerry Jones, Jerry Jr. Will McClay,
Todd Williams, and Jerry's telling a story about the purchase
(06:54):
of the Dallas Cowboys. And at the end of the story,
he leans over to me and he grows him bout
a by the forearm and reaches out to shake my hand.
He says, and you need to be the coach of
the Dallas Cowboys. So I dropped off and hogged him.
But I'll and I'll stop right there. We had a
hell of a time. But now that's that's a moment.
(07:17):
That's a moment, and that's a story I'll be telling
the rest of my life. So um, I can't just
tell you how thrilled my family are and I are here,
are thrilled to be here. Okay, So I'm loving all
of this, right But this is where it gets even
better now. They kind of alluded to it at the
press conference because I asked Mike McCarthy, when did you
first make contact with the Cowboys, Because it's my theory.
(07:40):
And you'll hear from Charles Robinson a little bit that
he was not the front runner, that this was not
the guy that they had done extensive research on. I
keep going back to Tom Pellicero to serves part of
this man's contract because he made Mike McCarthy all of
a sudden sexy. He's like the guy that took the
guy that was another man's trash, and it was like,
you know what, We're gonna take you to make over
(08:02):
boot camp and I'm gonna make you look sexy again
to other gms. But what made him sexy in my mind,
to Jerry Jones, was the man that reflects in the mirror,
the man that wants a second chance. Here's two soundbites
from Mike McCarthy today and then Mike McCarthy in that
NFL piece that I said, oh my gosh, the candidate
(08:25):
has been sitting right underneath our nose. Listen. In this
past year has been a year of reflection. My wife said,
I want to make it through ten words. I think
I got the about six, but reflection of just what
a blessed man I am. Great moments that I've been
a part of, you know, I'm married to love of
my life wife. My wife is a love of my life.
(08:47):
You know, we have beautiful children, come from a blessed family,
you know, and professionally was able to lift the Lombardi Trophy.
Why do you need to do this? Why do you
need to go move the family out of Green Bay?
You know? It's it's interesting. It's a very selfish profession.
Um coaching in the NFL. I think that's that's a given, um.
(09:10):
But what I've found through this transition is, uh, excuse me.
What I found is our family needs us. You know,
(09:33):
I don't know what that's a question. Sorry, we need
to do this. So this is something that are I
feel like it's just because everything has happened and this
will be a great This will be a great opportunity
for us. When he says we needed football, Bobby, there
were tears in his eyes. Who doesn't love sending a
(09:54):
message to you with tears in his eyes more than
our guy Jerry Jones. Oh yeah, that that tears will
resonate with Jerry more than anything else. I think that's
why he tries to use them on the media scrums Sometimes.
I look, I am not saying they're not authentic. Here's
what I love about Jerry. He believes it. And the
thing about Jerry, if you're on team Jerry, Jerry will
(10:16):
fight for you tooth and nail. Ask Michael Irvin, ask
Jason Garrett. So I loved all of this right, but
this was this is where the presser just took a
real interesting turn. To me, Jason Garrett, what went down
with all this? Jerry wasn't completely explicit about it. So
(10:36):
I caught up with Stephen Jones after it all, and
I asked him about as as it explicitly as possible,
as plainly as I needed answers. You know, when you've
been chasing the squirrel so long, I need answer, Stephen,
what happened with Jason? Why did he keep coming up
to the Star in Frisco every single day? Why was
it leaked that he was desperately clinging to his job?
(11:00):
Here's what Stephen said, Stephen, get a little bit of clarity.
Why two meetings with Jason Garrett and allowing him to
continue the exit interviews? Did you have another coach in mind?
When did you make contact? In my word, I'm just
looking for some clarity in the timeline there's really no
clarity for Jason. We had communication with Jason every step
of the way, and we wanted to be very respectful,
(11:21):
and you know, pretty much all of our action was
in line with what Jason wanted, and we had nothing
but utmost respect for him, and we used his timeline
and he understood that we were having, you know, having
to do our job too. Man, you know, he knew
exactly what we were doing. Was there ever a possibility
that he could stay here? In other words, you guys said,
(11:41):
let's go through the exhaustive search, and there's still I
knew we were moving moving down the road with other coaches.
So it reads like a telenovela. I gotta tell you,
I love all of it because as a reporter, you
love putting the pieces of the puzzle together. And I
am exhausted because I literally tried to flip over every rock.
And we'll talk about coaching and staff and everything that
(12:02):
we've run down in our next one, because like I said,
this one's jam packed. But Bobby, I also got to
tell you we wanted pop culture references and man, we Mike,
you won me over right out of the gate. Does
anyone can anyone tell me what this sounds like. Wow.
First of all, thank you. It is great to be here.
And I'm having a moment here because I don't know
(12:24):
where the hell put in my hands. I never said
at a table for a press conference, So excuse me,
I'm not sure what to do with my hand. Be good,
just to hold them down by your side. Yeah, great,
it's so beautiful. It's so Will Ferrell, it's so beautiful, Ricky, Bobby,
it's so beautiful. And then like I said that, Jason
Garrett stuff, it just it feels like, hey, eighties fans,
pop culture reference. Remember Ducky. When we were talking about
(12:47):
interviewing coach McCarthy, Jason was talking about what a great
guy is and how his story and how much we
were going to enjoy just that part of it investing with.
If you don't go to him now, I'm never going
to take you to another problem ever again. Hear me,
missing an incredibly romantic moment and you're ruining, all right.
(13:08):
So in conclusion, of course, we're going to bring in
Like I said, Charles Robinson and Andrew Brandt, I gotta
tell you, Jerry said something in the presser. He said,
this is lightning in a bottle. It's fortuitous, you know,
as he was reminding the press conference, there has never
been a head coach to win a Super Bowl with
not one, but two teams. But Jerry just feels it.
(13:31):
I drink the kool Aid from time to time. I do.
I even drank the kool Aid, and Jerry's just so
we're drinking the kool aid a month and a half
ago and guard maybe Jason can prepare for the possibility,
my new prepare for the possibility. Prepare for the possibility
that this guy that wasn't at the top of their
list might take him to the top of the mountain again.
(13:53):
Oh goodness. I don't know that I can trust that,
but it wasn't It was good to see, uh, you know,
an encouraging sign. A guy who is a free agent,
Randall Cobb, who spent so much time with Mike McCarthy.
He was out there today being supportive. You had Travis Frederick,
Zach Martin and a few other guys were out there.
So there's excitement around here. They all seem pretty happy,
I think, especially on you know, the front offs Love.
(14:15):
I think Jerry and Steven seemed really excited. The players
seemed excited, and I mean Mike McCarthy genuinely does seem
like he couldn't be happier to be back around the
game of football. If I had to assess how that
press conference went, Jerry and Stephen couldn't have gotten a
better pressor from a coach that everyone loved what Matt
(14:36):
Rule had to say. I gotta tell you, I thought
Mike McCarthy at this one out of the park other two.
I think he did really really well today. And look,
I mean we'll have time, like you said, to talk
about some of the stuff that's changing. With the assistant coaches.
I mean, they didn't want to talk about scheme at
all today. Mike McCarthy got asked a few questions about
it and said this isn't the place where I'm gonna
answer these things. We've got reviews to do, interviews to do. Said.
(14:57):
He essentially said he hasn't had spoken to the assistant
coaches because he said we'll start interviewing them. And I
thought was fascinating because quick update Sanji Law expected out
wide receivers coach Gary Brown the running backs coaches had
no contact with them, although I did report on NFL
Network on Monday that they reached out to a running
backs coach candidate. I know that candidate is also in
(15:19):
play for at least another NFL job, so we'll see
if that happens or if they decided to fall back
on Gary. I can tell you his players wanted back. Yeah,
one of the most important players wants him back. Offensive
line Coachmark Colombo actually had to set up his own
meeting with the Joneses. Even though he had two years
on his contract he walked out of They're not feeling
confident about his future here. Instead, I'm told that Joe
(15:41):
Philbin is the guy that they're eye eyeing for offensive line,
but also as the run coordinator. Joe Philban was the
guy who when Mike McCarthy was fired, took over, took
over his enterim head coach in Green Bay. Fascinating, but
also I was told possible assistant head coach. So that's
something for us to keep an eye on in the
weeks in days to come. Mike Nolan defensive coordinator is
(16:02):
who we're hearing. And then at secondary, keep an eye
on one. I think I'm going to rule out, but
I think Tony Oden is another one on the radar
to keep an eye on. And then who else Joe
Witt Junior. I don't think he's gonna end up ultimately
coming to Dallas, but I think we should keep an
eye on Tony Odin. And then it sounds like he
(16:24):
likes Kellen Moore. Yes, yeah, he spoke really positively about
what he saw on film when he was studying the
Cowboys and was really impressed with Kellen, which, by the way, well,
you've got to drop this for the fans too. I
keep lying. There's just so much that I want to
drop in here. Can we talk about what made him
so relatable to me? How many of you have oversold
your qualifications in an interview? Most everyone? I think, Okay,
(16:46):
well here's here's our boy. Mike McCarthy just, oh my god.
For the win. You said you analyzed every play or
watched every play of the entire twenty nineteen season. What
is it that you learn from that experience that you
think will be I think you most here. Well, I
mean I need to confess. I mean I told Jerry
I watched every play the two thousand nineteen season, but
I wanted a job, so I have I haven't watched
(17:14):
every play of the season, but it was just, uh,
I mean, you do what you gotta do, right, So
we didn't watch a lot of tape. But again, if
you go back to my boy Tom pilis there, we
need to get him on the podcast to talk about everything.
He at least watched a bunch of Dallas and Dak
Prescott on this offense. He said that this offense is
going to be built around the quarterback to make them successful,
(17:36):
that the run game is going to be important, that
Zeke is going to get the ball, but as you said,
would not clarify whether it's going to be a four
three or three four. Yeah, happened to say the best
way to make a quarterback is successful is with a
great running game, which kind of runs counter to analytics,
which again again we're not going to dive into how
good the higher is. We can do that on the
next one. Yeah, there is a lot, but overall, generally,
(17:57):
I think from just an entertainment apoint this was it
was a pretty great press conference. If you love to
be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts,
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(18:17):
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hundred flowers dot com. Slash tune in. If I could
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(18:38):
if you could find a way to get inside each
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Brought to you by the AD Council. Welcome out of machine.
(19:04):
Look for your children's eyes to see the true magic
of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You
look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face
of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They
see treasure in pebbles, They see a windy path that
could lead to adventure, and they see you there fearless
(19:24):
guide to this fascinating world. Find a forest near you
and start exploring a Discover the Forest dot org, brought
to you by the United States Forest Service and the
AD Council. All right. Joining us now on the podcast
is Charles Robinson, senior NFL reporter for Yahoo. And you've
also got a pod, Charles, go ahead and drop it
for the for the fans that just can't get enough
of sports talk. But yeah, we did. We actually did
(19:47):
a long walk through today for our podcast on Mike
McCarthy and the Cowboys. So the Yahoo Sports NFL podcast
with myself and for a sailor, we welcome end in
New dal Cowboys subscribe verse obviously doing our best to
build the audience there, and yeah, they could tip in
and take a list in this week, that'll be great.
You become such a good follow I know a lot
(20:08):
of Cowboy fans have, have, you know, clung to some
of your articles and some of the legwork you've done.
I certainly know you did a lot of it, as
did all of us, trying to get to the bottom
of why Jason Garrett was still in this building, why
we hadn't heard of a coaching week so let's just
go ahead and walk through the last week. You've been
a reporter for a while. How curious was this whole saga?
(20:34):
It was bizarre to the point of, you know, there
was a point where I sat there and I thought, Okay,
you know, I've I've been doing this really for twenty years.
If I go back to, you know, the first team
I've recovered out of colleges of the Detroit Lions, and
I took about five years off to do an investigative.
But I thought, okay, the fifteen years that I've really
kind of hovered around a lot of the NFL. Ever, remember,
(20:57):
you know, a search process like this where there was
an ambiguity as long as there was it was like
Jason who clearly wanted to remain, and then a search
process that started with two candidates that even I initially thought, okay,
there's a sham. They're just getting their sea legs right now. Yeah,
I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. And
(21:19):
I would ask you, is it not clear now? Like
this is my I feel like I feel like I
have it dialed in. I'm curious what you think of it?
Is it not clear that they back Bernard Jason as
a sort of a break good glass option, and that
Jason like allowed it basically one thousand percent. Charles, I
(21:39):
mean you and I. You know, I followed you on
Twitter and I read your columns, and you know, I
talked to other reporters, obviously just here in the local market,
and we were all I can't even explain how many
rocks that I turned over trying to find clues. I mean,
to your point, I was also an investigative reporter and
a news reporter, and I put all of those skills
(22:01):
to use on this one. And as crazy as it sounds,
I truly believe that they left the door not they
not Stephen, Jerry left the door open for the possibility
of Jason being this building or if he was going
to do right by him, be kind, showing abundance of respect.
They would have just said goodbye to him on Monday,
(22:22):
following his meeting with the players and the exit interviews.
But to drag it out on Tuesday, and the fact
that they this third meeting was leaked, which was crazy
to meet and I had said, I can't confirm this
third meeting. We had reported and knew that they were
in Aspen, and then all of a sudden, you've got
these inter curious interviews, by the way, with a guy
like Marvin Lewis and Mike McCarthy over the weekend, and
(22:46):
I just felt like Mike McCarthy was never a front runner.
They had not done their due diligence on him. They
had perhaps seen the Tom Pella Sero report and thought, wow,
that's interesting, let's bring him in here and talk to him.
And I think I said this on King's podcast, and
I talked to Jim Rome this week. I think Jerry
is such a guy that's about redemption, looking in the mirror,
(23:08):
second chances, innovation, being an old dog that can learn
new tricks. And I think Mike McCarthy had every single
buzzword at the right time, and that was what took
Jerry Jones over the edge, and so Stephen brought him
to the table. In my opinion, it was the buzzwords,
the timing, the things that really make Jerry Jones go
(23:31):
that put this one over the edge. And when they realized, look,
we found our guy. If we've got a guy like
this out there available that's won a Super Bowl, how
can we possibly continue the insanity that has been Jason Garrett. Great, Yeah,
I'm looking. And the funny thing about this is you
can't really claim Mike McCarthy like it will be if
(23:54):
this is really successful. I'm excited to see how the
look back goes because if this becomes well, we always
like Mike always, we always thought the world of Mike,
and he was he was really at the top of
our list. Well, if he's on the top of your list,
why did you let him go interview a couple of
other teams. Yeah, you don't do that, Like if he's
your guy, Um, you just do not let him do that.
(24:16):
And I think, as I said, it was the process
was just so weird. You talk about turning over all
the rocks, and I think I was with you. You know,
we're all following each other and we're all kind of
paying attention to what everyone else is doing, and I'm
sure you know we're overlapping each other and calling sources
(24:37):
all these things. And it wasn't until late in the
week where I realized, like, hey, there's actually a reason
they're not reaching out to these college coaches. There's a reason.
Part of it, I think was there's no candidate list.
You know, we and I think that was unmasked a
little bit by Mike and Marvin being the first two
people in the door. But then, you know, once once
(24:58):
Mike and Marvin went through the process, two things clarified
from the number one. Late in the week, Matt Rule
was kind of dialing in his process. And what was
interesting was he liked the Cowboys roster quite a bit.
You know, he really liked the Giant situation, he liked
the Carelinn situation. Knew those were there for him, but
(25:18):
it was like this lingering question the back of his mind, like,
I really liked Dallas' roster, and yet I don't seem
to be like even a thought process in Dallas right now.
And I think that he used him a little bit,
which I thought was really interesting. And then once Mike
and Marvin had gone through the process, then I had
a chance to talk to some people right in the
middle of the weekend, it became clear to me because
(25:40):
we were telling me Jerry wants someone experienced, Well, he
didn't want to mess around this is the transition or
this or that, and you know, so I think that
probably helped Mike. But as you said, Mike spent a
year preparing for this moment to walk into a room
with a coaching book. And from what I understand, he
was very in honest about you know, what he sort
(26:02):
of felt went wrong in the bay or why why
I didn't sort of work at the end there. And
I'm sure that that held a lot of way, you know,
with Jerry, Like you said, the redemption process, the ability
to eat a mistake. Now, but I learned from it. Um.
You know, Jerry's big on learning and then also showing
here's the way I'm going to tell myself back in
(26:23):
for success. I want you got to talk though about
the craziness of the process. You can't. I don't want
to move past that without the seven minutes of Nick
Saban in the middle. Like you gotta talk about the
seven minutes of Nick Saban, Right, We're going to talk
about that. I know you ran it down there. I
had gotten a tip if people knew the things that
(26:46):
I ran down, I had gotten a tip on I
believe it was Thursday night that the Cowboys were high
on Nick Saban, and I said, oh my gosh, now
this makes sense. Jerry wouldn't be lying to us. Here's
a guy that's had NFL head coaching experience. Here's a
guy that's coaching, but this wouldn't make sense. He just
signed another ridiculous extension. The buyout would be absurd. You
(27:10):
and I had heard about the possibility of them not
being afraid of spending money and buyouts to get certain
coaches that they were interested in. So of course I
reach out to his agent and people close to him,
and they literally laughed my head off. But I brought
it up. But this is a sort of stuff that
was going and I truly believe the Urban stuff. While
that meeting one hundred percent happened between Stephen and Urban,
(27:35):
I believe Urban was just out there creating the spin
zone yea. And the Lincoln Riley thing, I could never
get anyone to tell me that that was legit at all.
So I never ever, ever thought that Lincoln was anything
but the Matt Rule thing I thought was intriguing. I
thought Matt Rule was intriguing because of what he did
(27:55):
at Baylor, the way he was able to turn things around.
I couldn't get Matt and his people to call me back, though,
and so that was that was also where I couldn't
mark him off my list. Dan Mullin never got back
to me. So that was a guy couldn't mark off
my list. But I mean we we chased down everything.
And yeah, and as you know that, people talk, I
mean agencies talk, agents talk, friends of players. I remember
(28:20):
when we were here covering the Rangers, a little girl
told her school teacher that her dad was getting ready
to go be a Cleveland Indian. And that's how we
found out he was no longer going to be. I mean,
people talk. No one talked about any of this. Yeah,
this was the h it was the rare like but
but I that's the funny thing is when you got
to the Marvin Mike part of it, that's when it
(28:43):
sort of solidified. But now you know, there really wasn't
this list, this you know, list that was vaulted away
of ten guys. Like here's ten guys. We're gonna go
after it, like you didn't you know that. I thought
that's what's gonna happen. You know, it's gonna be the
normal process. They're gonna let go of Jason the next
day after season ends. They'll let him go through his
(29:03):
process for a day and then they'll announce that they're
moving on. It'll be cordial, maybe there'll be a press
comp we'll see how it goes. But then I think
Jason really in those first two interviews expressing to Jerry
how much he wanted to remain open that door to hey,
you know what, let's let's hang on and see, you know,
(29:23):
like there's no reason to fire him or to you know,
remove him early if we've still got you know, a
little bit of runway in his contract, and let's see
what other people, you know, what they impress upon us,
and then you know, we really don't like it if
it's not working out, or or there's just you know,
who knows what you can come across with with some
(29:44):
of the candidates that they might have stacked up, you
can always turn back into Jason. And yeah, it was
just it was wild. I mean the Knick Stavan thing
was crazy. Right in the middle of it. I mean,
there were so many, you know, different names. As you said,
I mean, you ran everybody down. I'm running everybody down
trying to I'm literally it's funny you brought up Dan
Mullen because, um, I mean my best effort to get
(30:05):
to Dan Mullen. And then it was sort of the
Matt rule of thing where later in the week. It
was like I had a chance to talk to somebody
really close to Dan. He was like, Dan keeps asking
me that do you think I have a shot at
the Cowboy? And I'm like, okay, well, it was just
process of elimination, and so you know, when you're doing
the legwork and you're checking all these people off. And
(30:26):
then I thought the other curious thing was that a
lot of these coaches that are currently on staff, they
weren't hearing anything. And by the way, at the time
of the taping of this broadcast, they still haven't heard
anything from Stephen Jones, Mike McCarthy, whatever. So you know,
we'll we'll dive into that later in the week, and
especially you know, as we start hearing about who these
(30:46):
coaches are that get announced. But the whole thing was
just so curious to me, the way they went about it.
And I'm going to be interested to see what they
tell us about how long they knew Mike was there, man,
because I truly believe to your point. You know, I
had been told that Jason was shown up to work
every day with this large binder under his arm, and
while that binder could have been all of his exit interviews.
(31:09):
My gut tells me mister Princeton was putting together a
PowerPoint presentation about how he was going to turn things around.
Like Mike McCarthy, but he was going to tell him
how he was going to do it in a matter
of a week. Mike had spent a year doing it, right, Yeah,
And I mean I have no doubt that that was
sort of Jason's coaching book that he would bring into
an interview. You know. I'm sure Jason, being who he
(31:30):
is recreated, sort of sat there and thought, Okay, well,
look how reinterview. That's fine. You know, I have a
couple of weeks left and on my contract that can
reinterview for the jobs. Will only put a coaching book together,
you know. But Mike, I'll say this for Mike McCarthy,
he I know he had team even book far more.
I know he did a little bit of TV when
he dipped out after the Packers, but he definitely had
(31:52):
the opportunity to be quote unquote a TV guy for
a year first season, and he really didn't step into that.
And the fact that he go down and said, okay,
here the knocks on me. Okay, I'm not an analytic
sure of a guy about this, I'm not that. I
let me see if I can, you know, step it
into that and bunkering down for that season and spending
(32:14):
that time really looking at different offenses and trying to
reshape maybe a little bit of his thought process, and
then thinking about the successes and failures in Green Bay
and having a good grasp on that well at the
same time building his pitch. I think that's what paid off.
I really do. And even when you walk into a
situation where I and I fully firmly believe this, and
I think that the staff, when it's laid out, will
(32:37):
bear this out. I think when you walk into that
room and you're ready to have that conversation, if you know,
Jerry Jarones is going to say, or Steam's going to say,
you know, we want some offensive continuity here. We've got
some guys who were like, what would you think about
keeping some of these individuals. I think Mike was ready
for even those questions. And sometimes I think that's where
(32:57):
coaches hit a wall in interviews. They don't like Matt rule.
Matt rule goes to the interview of the jet. I
don't think he realized, you know, they're gonna basically try
to cram Adham Gaze down my throat. And then when
he went through that process, it really really caused the
cratering in that process. And so I think Mike had
the opportunity to think about how would how would I
(33:19):
react if maybe the cows want to keep some people. Um,
you know, I gave it up to him. He did
everything he could to land a job like this, and
even though I wasn't big on how the process went,
I really wanted to blowout. I wanted to see Jerry
not take anyone off the table. I feel like they
sort of ended up with someone where I'm like, Okay,
(33:41):
you know, let's let's see if the Mike McCarthy reclamation
project that he has sold for more than a month
now to the media, Let's see if that's real where
it concerned some of the things that he'll do offensively,
and um, that's really what matters going forward. But I
definitely think it could have done worse. It was just
process itselfless, completely bizarre, and it will be memorable, I
(34:02):
think for the rest of my career. There were a
few things and I'm going to let Bobby Way in
here before I let you cook Charles. But the one
that if people haven't seen, I can't talk enough about this.
It was that sit down that Tom Pellicera did with them,
and you saw the tears at the end and him
talking about the family needed football. I just thought to myself,
that is your sizzle, real for Jerry. Jerry needs football
(34:24):
to his family needs football. Jerry gets emotional about football
and second chances. That was the highlight real. Don't show
me your postseason resume. Like Jerry. The one thing that
you can say about him, whether you love it or
you don't, it's appealing to who he is as a human,
a human that he will tell you over and over
has been flawed, that has been given second chances, people
(34:46):
have counted him out, and the things that he's done
to overcome that. And when I watch that piece, I'm like,
our candidate has been literally undergard nose the whole time.
And as much as a lot of people think that
this is a consolation prize, we're we'll talk to Andrew
Brant here coming up in just a little bit, but
him talking about when you compare these two resumes and
how both of these guys we're up for consideration at
(35:09):
the same time, in Green Bay, and they ultimately went
with Mike. I think is fascinating. But I also think
it's fascinating that this contract is five years, which also
puts us right in line for us to start talking
about Sean Payton here when his contract expires, and it
all comes full circle. Charles always always, I'm sure I
look forward to five years of frenzy. Oh my god,
(35:32):
what are they doing? Is Sean available? And by the way,
Gene will tell you, Bobby will tell you it won't
be five years. Next year were about Sean And yeah,
we'll hear about Sean in the air, like let's think
when the Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy pretty quickly. I
feel like that's the annual right of passage. You know
you nailed. The season has either ended or you know
(35:53):
it's coming wrong. At some point you have the Sean
Payton conversation. And by the way, I want to say
that it's such a great point about the appeal to
Jerry's heart. It really is, because I don't think there's
one owner who I've ever spoken to in all the years,
and I've only had a few like one on one
situations with Jerry where I've seen a guy get tearful,
(36:18):
like especially when he thinks about his beginnings and how
much it in a way scared him, you know, the
potential of failure with the Cowboys and how close he was,
and you know, he likes to tell those stories about
you know, turtain lights off in the facility because you know,
I'm literally all going broke here, and you know he does.
He gets to the point of tears and actually and
(36:40):
and and I can see that you appeal to that
part of Jerry where there's a little bit of um,
you know, not only the gambling mentality, but the desperation
for success. He really buys into that. And you know,
I just think maybe that's what, at least me personally,
maybe that's what I understood in the process on being
(37:00):
able to get in front of Jerry and appeal in
that manner really does matter. And hopefully, hopefully for Jerry,
this is the right decision and it goes the right
way because I just think, for two, in that rule
and knowing that he kind of questioned, likes, why the
cow is not reaching out to me if he has
a lot of success in Carolina and things go really
(37:21):
well and things with Mike don't it's you know, that's
something that at least me personally, I'll be like, look,
I'm gonna revisit that, I'm going to talk to that
and asking why why do you think it happened the
way that it happened where you just didn't hear from them.
That will be one guy that I think will be
compared in this process down the line. So we've talked
about that. You know, the Cowboys maybe didn't have Mike
(37:44):
McCarthy as the top option. We don't know how much
we believe that that was their number one guy from
the outset. But when you talk about Mike McCarthy potentially
appealing to Jerry's side, coming in there with all the
right answers, do you think that Mike McCarthy's top job
as he was going through this whole process, he was
looking towards or Dallas is where I want to end up. Um.
(38:05):
I look, I'll just be real here and I you know,
I'm sure Mike would protest this. I think Mike would
have taken the first job offered to him. Really, I
really do like I think that, um, any of the
jobs that Mike was going to interview for, if he
had the opportunity he would have taken it. And and
I do understand some of that because Mike, you know,
for for whether it's right or wrong, I don't think
(38:26):
that Mike was necessarily considered quote unquote the hot candidate
or the guy with a lot of leverage, you know,
going through the process. I think you know, he could
he could sit for an interview and do well, but
ultimately was he going to have um was it? Was
it a Mike McCarthy buyer's market? You know, I don't,
I don't think so. And um, well it was a
buyer's market. Was a Mike McCarthy seller's market from his standpoint.
(38:48):
So you know, for if someone said to Mike early like, hey,
would Dallas be you know, near the top of your list?
I think for a lot of coaches, Dallas to be
near the top of the list. So long as you
can deal with you know, can you deal with an
owner just going to talk after every game and be
on the radio and going to say things about you know,
your your team. Can you weather that um? As long
(39:12):
as you could come to terms with that um And
then also sort of how personnel works in Dallas, it
was going to be near the top of your list,
and whenever Myer talked about how you know, hey, this
is a it is a be all, end all job.
I think a lot of coaches do feel that way.
So in a weird way, I think it worked out
for Dallas, although I feel like they kind of tripped
(39:34):
into it a little bit, but I think it really
worked out for Mike as well. Um, and it's I
don't when I say that Mike would have taken the
first job offer to him, I want it's going to
sound harsh, but I liken it too. I remember when
Andy Reid got fired from from Philly and he took
the Kansas City job inside of the week. And I
(39:57):
saw Andy this summer after that, and I asked, Andy, man,
I know people were telling take a year off. You've
had some family stuff, there's you know, there's a lot here.
Why not just take some time? And and he was like,
I wanted back. Look I am, I'm not burned out.
I'm ready to go. Like people people have this idea
that you know, um, I just I'm paraphrasing him here,
(40:17):
but he kind of went through this thing. Well, people
have this idea that beet fired and you got to
take time off and recover from it. It's like I
didn't feel that way, like I still want to coach football.
I love it, and and so I do think when
I say Mike would have taken the first job, as
Jane talked about the tears in the NFL network, saying,
I think that's because Mike wasn't burned out. I think
Mike really wanted the opportunity to get right back into
(40:39):
football and didn't feel wiped out. But you know, he
did also get that year to sort of think about
it and process it. So you know, I don't think
I doan Mike can say, hey, I knew this would
be my job, and I don't think. I don't think
Jerry could ever look back and say Mike was our
number one candidate, because I frankly don't even think it's
so late in the sum that's when Mike and even
(41:02):
Marvin popped up late in the problem. I mean, you
talk to people, ever't When Marvin I talked to somebody
close to Marvin Lewis and I said, was this was
this kind of works for a while, And he laughed
and he goes, I don't know for a while, like
and Marvin had interviewed on Friday, he goes by a while.
Do you mean like Friday morning? I'm dead serious on this. Yes,
(41:23):
I think that. I think these ideas came to Fruition
and Aspen while they were sitting around the table having
drinks with the family. The family weighed in, isn't that
a conference? The Aspen Ideas Institute. I think that is
actually a thing. It's it's actually going to be a
ride off this year it was business. Listen, Jane is
(41:45):
just trying to get an assignment, and ask me, Yeah,
I didn't get Hawaii when they went there in the preseason.
I didn't get Cobbo when when Zeke exiled himself there,
and I didn't get Aspen. What I do get is
a one way ticket to Frisco destination back to my
known Yeah, we're doing this podcast outside because we're not
(42:07):
allowed in the building. Before I let you go, i'd
be remiss to say that. I know a lot of
people think US journalists have cold black carts and we
don't care about people. But can we talk about the
tragedy that is Jason Garrett, a guy that we all
thought would be considered for the head coaching job, only
to learn that. No, that guy's Joe Judge And hey, Jason,
(42:27):
if you want to come here and call play something
that was taken away from you and Dallas, something that
people didn't think you could do, we'll bring it here
for the OC gig. Your thoughts on all of that, Yeah,
it was pretty wild that, you know, they put the
request in and then pivoted to Judge pretty quickly. And
I know it's kind of been some debate, you know
(42:49):
about it. It's aditioning because the Giants are like, well,
you know, we put in for head coaching, we put
in for head coaching consideration with Jason. And I think
the reason why they're saying that is because they want
Joe to at least they want it to look like
a Joe could name his own staff. Okay, so we're
not we're not even really pushing Jason on him, but look,
(43:09):
the Giants, John Marri thinks a lot of Jason and um,
you know, and I think he really would like to
have Jason the organization, and I personally have no doubt
he would like to have Jason as the oct I
think he'd like the parent team of Jones. It is.
It's a little bit of a bummer because you know,
I don't Jason me personally, particularly looking at the team
(43:30):
and covering it from the analytical standpoint. Jason always frustrated
me because I always saw a part of Jason when
he would step off that podium, you know, and you
talked to him on the side, and there was just
this part of him where I felt like I didn't
always know how much he was projecting that outwardly to
the fan base. I didn't know much he would always
project that to the players, although I think there was
(43:50):
a lot more of it projected toward the players. Um,
I think. I just it's a bummer that it did
not work out for him, because he did. He's a
guy about it, and there's a lot of craziness that
happens late in a tenure. And it's funny because Mike
McCarthy could talk about that. There was a lot of
craziness that happened in green Bay late in his tenure
(44:11):
that ended up you know, I don't want to say taining,
but it left a malaise on the Green Bay experience
and that's what Jason's going to have to deal with
coming out of Dallas. But I'll also say this, this
was Jason's, you know, and we've spent five personally, spent
a lot of time talking about the second life coaches
since they hired Mike McCarthy. Well, you don't want Jason's
(44:34):
going to be on that list. He will. He's going
to be a candidate for future head coaching jobs. And
I will be very curious to see if Jason is
one of these guys who has a second opportunity and
ends up doing really well because he's had a chance
to get into a new experience and sort of do
the autopsy and what maybe he didn't do perfectly the
(44:54):
first time around, so Dallaphins should get used to it now.
He's not going away. He's going to be an NFL
coach somewhere. It might be a coordinated first, but I
would bet good money that Jason someday will be a
head coach. And Jason, if you're listening, I leave you
with this. When ESPN decided not to re up my
contract as it was approaching expiration and they were making
cuts at Long Worn Network, they asked me to go
(45:17):
and do the SEC Baseball tournament. I went there and
I happened to be with Maria Taylor and Laura Rutledge
and they were talking about some of the power moves
they were making, and Maria was a candidate for the
NFL network. She told me about the job. I asked
her permission to have my agent call, and that has
changed the trajectory of my life. So by Jason doing
the right thing, showing up to work when a lot
(45:37):
of us wouldn't otherwise do that, knowing that people were
out on us, maybe something good happens for him. I
certainly hope it. Throughout this process, I've enjoyed getting to
know you, Charles, and thank you so much for basically
doing our podcast today twenty eight minutes with us here
on the pod. Thank you so much, great insight. And again,
if you guys want to follow Charles Robinson, you can
find him on Twitter and of course you've dropped some
(45:59):
really great articles out there. Again, that's at Charles Robinson
on Twitter. Thanks Charles, well, thank you for yeah, absolutely,
thank you for having me and I have a great
relationship with you guys. But I'm not gonna lie like
there are times where Jane is the bane of my existence,
where I z the whole Zeke contract. I'm like, who's
(46:23):
talking to Jane. Thanks. Whoever talking I'm like, I'm like,
you're not talking to Jane, right, you're talking to me.
Stop talking to We're all here to celebrate each other's winds.
I love the competition. Awesome. Well, let's let's hope that
this is the last time we got to go through
one of the searches for a while. My heart can't
handle it. I need a vacation. Get right to the
(46:44):
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States Forest Service and the ad Council. And we're live
here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for them.
And there they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom
(47:52):
is coming out the front door strong with a double
arm kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter
is bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper bad
wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom
has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.
And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
(48:12):
nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.
Dead zips the bad clothes and they're off. But looks
like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on
the roof of the car. And there it goes. Oh,
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(48:33):
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the right Seat brought to you by NITZA and the
ad Council. Well. Joining us now is Andrew Brant. There's
really probably nobody more well equipped to talk to us
about Mike McCarthy in the side of the Cowboys have
(48:54):
made than Andrew. Andrew was on staff with the Packers
as vice president when the McCarthy highre was made aid.
He spent nine years with the Green Bay Packers. He
is now executive vice president at the Morad Center at
Villanova and executive vice president of Vyner Sports. He also
writes columns for the MMQB and you can follow him
on Twitter at Andrew Brant. Andrew, how you doing. I'm
(49:15):
doing well. Always good to be with you guys. And
it just put funny hearing Mike McCarthy hired as I
hired Mike McCarthy's hard to believe it's fourteen years ago
this week time flies. Tell me what drew you guys
to Mike McCarthy when you made the hire in Green Bay?
And do you think it was probably the same sort
of things that drew the Cowboys to him? Here this
(49:36):
time around. Yeah, it's hard to know exactly. I think
back then he was someone that was impressive in the
interview in terms of no nonsense, straight shooter, kind of
that Pittsburgh tough guy without letting you know he's a
tough guy, if you know what I mean, just very direct.
(49:56):
There was never going to be any ps with Mike,
and it was really run by our general manager at
the time, Ted Thompson, and we had some great personnel
guys who are all had been GM since John Schneider
who's now in Seattle. John Dorsey was running the Browns,
Reggie McKenzie was running the Raiders, and myself and there's
(50:18):
just a nice chemistry that developed right away and just quickly.
The other finalist was Sean Payton, and it was really
kind of a dead heat. But the one thing that
pushed Mike over the edge for with us is that
he had been in Green Bay. He had spent one
year on staff as a quarterbacks coach, the one year
(50:38):
that Ray rose with head coach, and that familiarity that
he knew Green Bay, knew people there, he understood the Packers,
which is a different place than anywhere else. They kind
of pushed it over the top. So that's where we
came to hire Mike back in two thousand and six.
John Palaicero did an excellent piece with him this offseason,
and I've joked that Mike mccarthios him about ten percent
(51:00):
of this contract for helping rebrand McCarthy and get him
back out there on the open market. Have you watched it?
As my first question and then my follow up, if
you have, what stood out about some of the moves
he made in the off season, you know, the guys
sort of looking in the mirror. Yeah, I saw some
of it, maybe not the whole flip, but some of
it with Tom. And by the way, Tom was covering
(51:21):
the packers when I get out there for the local paper. Listen, Mike,
I can speak to this on a personal level. It
is very hard to live in Green Bay with Thompson
and not work for the Packers. And that's just a
you know, just a feeling. I probably waited with the Packers,
(51:44):
and there were a few months before we moved out,
and that's not easy because everything is Packers. I mean,
you can't go out of your house without talking about
the Packers. So I feel for Mike, you know, of course,
his wife's from there, as little kid there, he got
a great house there. I can see why I didn't move.
(52:05):
But I know that's tough. You know, it's one thing
to be removed from a job and go somewhere else
and get ready for next job. To do it there
with a new coach, with the team doing so well,
with all the noise about him and Aaron and everything else,
That's what it really felt for him. And I think,
like a lot of coaches, doesn't matter where, Green Baby, anywhere.
(52:28):
You know it's in your blood and you miss it. Again,
it's not about me. But when I lost away from
the NFL after nine and a half years, I'm like,
I'm good. You know, I'm going to do different things.
I had my time there, Been there, done that, But
I think for coaches and like Mike, it's very different.
So I just felt like he was shown himself his
(52:52):
vulnerability is humanity and his love for coaching. To follow
up on that, you know, he talked a lot about
trying to get more innovative studying the offenses. Particularly one
of them was Dak Prescott and this Cowboys offense. It's
all lip service right now until we actually see its application.
But from what you came to know of Mike, is
he the type of guy that's capable of adapting that
(53:14):
there is a pliability about him? You know, I think so,
And maybe the answer wouldn't have been as easy as
saying that four two, three, four years ago, settled in
his ways over a decade in Green Bay being away
from it. Sure, you know, I'm sure he's I saw
the piece about just going to work every day and
(53:36):
figuring out new offensive concepts. And when I interviewed Mike
fourteen years ago, I'm not a scout, I'm not a
football you know, I don't know XS and host. But
listening to him, wow, you know that was impressive in
Sean Payton, like wow, you know, working the boundary and
perimeter and all these words I didn't know in terms
of offensive football. So I think he'll be pliable. And
(53:58):
he's inheriting Dak at kind of a time in his
career there, you know, he inherited Aaron, And you know,
when I was with Mike and Aaron, Aaron was largely
the backup, but Brett would go to Mississippi from January
to July basically, and it was Mike and Aaron and
(54:22):
those three years before Aaron was given the keys to
the franchise, it was like, wow, you know, there's some
real development going on there are those are kind of
special times where you have a new coach and a
quarterback in waiting working together in these quiet moments in
March and April and May. Some people are starting to
(54:45):
wonder or One of the thoughts coming out of this
season with Dallas being as disappointing as they were was
that they may have lacked some discipline or or they
maybe could have used more of a drill sergeant type.
I know you said McCarthy's a no nonsense guy. Do
you think he's the type of guy to come in
here and I guess crack the whip a little bit
and restore some discipline for this team. Yeah. I don't
(55:05):
know if he said to crack the whip guy. I
do know this, he's got a good emotional intelligence about him.
He as I said, this kind of a gruff Pittsburgh guy.
I really knew when to when to hold and wanted
to fold him. I mean, we'd have bad losses and
you'd come in expect some expletive lace to dreaming, and
(55:29):
he didn't do that. You know, he really picked his spot.
He made a good intelligence about there. But listen, there
was no lack of discipline problems when I was around,
Like you know, it didn't have to be said, it was,
it was understood. And I've been around teams where we
did have some discipline issues, so that was not a problem.
(55:51):
I want your thoughts on this, And perhaps it's not
a fair question given that you interviewed Mike McCarthy earlier
in his career, as well as Sean Payton. Both of
these guys, of course ended up going to get Super
Bowls with their respective teams. But you know, I think
for some in Dallas, when Mike McCarthy's hire was announced,
it felt like a consolation price. In other words, this
fan base has always wanted the best, and in their minds,
(56:12):
it's been Sean Payton, it's been the Bill Belichick. Is
Mike McCarthy a consolation prizer? Are these guys more similar
than we give Mike credit for? You know, it's interesting
a couple of things. First of all, he's obviously the
only candidate Skins on the wall. You know, super Bowl, multiple,
multiple playoffs. You know, Green Bay's a special place. I
(56:34):
was there nine years, we missed the playoffs. Once he
was there fourteen years. I think they missed the playoffs.
I don't know three times in fourteen years. So everyone
wants that. You know, you can sign up for that right.
The other thing, and I've done some radio down there,
and I've said this. I talked to two teams about
(56:58):
Mike McCarthy that either have hired or looking for a
head coach. I did not talk to the Dallas Cowboys.
So he I mean, I don't know if the word
is in demand, but he was top candidates this year,
maybe the top candidate because the teams I talked to
(57:21):
they were a impressed and be just like, what do
we don't know? I mean, he, oh, do you know
anything about him? We should be worried about. I mean,
this guy's great. I'm like nothing I know to be
worried about. So listen he I don't know if he
(57:42):
had other offers. I don't know how many options, how
these these other teams progressed, But I will say that
I talked to two teams that inquired about Mike that
called me, and one they were not balanced. So Andrew,
just last question for you, because this is all He's
going to be the question, I think for a lot
of people outside of Dallas and also inside of Dallas.
(58:04):
But given what you know about Mike McCarthy, and I'm
sure you have some general understanding of Jerry Jones having
been in the league at the same time as him,
is that a relationship you think that can last? Or
is that a personality mesh there you think Mike McCarthy
and Jerry Jones. Yeah, I mean I think listen, it's
it's diametrically opposite. For Green Bay, of course, because we
have no owner. We had, you know, millions of chiefs
(58:27):
heads as their owners, and there was little to no interference.
Having said that, the teams I talked to about Mike,
he was up front with them. He was not them
to him that, Hey, I just want to coach, you know,
(58:48):
I don't get involved in personnel salary cap you know,
I want to coach. And if he's telling other teams that,
I'm sure that drives well with what's the setup in
Dallas and makes sense. So you know, all of that
made sense to me. The other things that impressed the
teams I talked to him that had talked to Mike
(59:10):
was like he didn't have a set group of coaches
to come with him, because a lot of coaches they
sort of put together their guys, their buddies. If they
get a job, they bring them with him. He wasn't
set on that, and he said, you know, I got
some guys out there that I've coached against that really
were impressive, and maybe I can go after them that
(59:34):
he didn't even know. So that was impressive and I'm
sure he's doing that now. Wants to coach reflective, doesn't
want to handle personnel. Now, I think we're kind of
getting a little bit of inside as to why the
Cowboys made this decision so quickly. Now it all makes sense. Well.
Andrew Brandt does wonderful work. You can read a stuff
(59:55):
over at the MMQB. You can check out his podcast,
The Business of Football. Here's nobody better on the business
of the NFL than Andrew brands And you can give
them follow on Twitter out Andrew brand Andrew, thanks so
much for joining us, having to do it in jorga
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ad Council. So yeah, as you could hear quite the
sound difference from the beginning of the show into the
(01:01:44):
interviews and then back here now with all the wind
out there. But I gotta say that even with the
windy conditions, it wouldn't have been possible without our friends
at road who gave us this mixer that allowed us
to record inside and outside. Today. It was very travel
friendly today it came through in the clutch. So and
Bobby is such a perfectionist. He wants this to sound
the best that he possibly can. I don't know if
(01:02:06):
you guys know this, but he is the one that
mixes this down for us, puts all of this thing together.
You're the reason why this thing makes it go. We
certainly have a lot to talk about, like I said,
in the weeks and months to come. So on the
next podcast, let's deep dive into some of these new
coordinators the staff. If they haven't been announced, we'll talk
about the rumored ones, what they're planning on bringing the
table and then what's ahead twenty six free agents, Dak
(01:02:29):
Prescott's contract, Amari Cooper's contract, Shaun Witten's, Shaunley and Jason
Witten's future, and I will be rested up. I will
be allowed to return back to my life that is
not at the Star because I am afraid that Jerry
is going to start paying or start charging me rent
because I've been here so much. Guys, thanks for listening
(01:02:50):
to us. We appreciate you guys shouting out to us
on social media looking for us to drop this pod.
So we hope you guys enjoy this one. I'm not
sure what to do with my hand. I would be
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