August 3, 2025 • 42 mins
The best of Colin Cowherd’s takes on Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears. Did the Bears win the NFL offseason? Will Caleb improve enough this year? Will new head coach Ben Johnson turn Chicago into a winning team?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Danny Parkins co host breakfast Ball, the winner of the
mythical FS one NFL Picks Championship. It should be noted
it's just like the USA Today High School Basketball Championship.
It's all mythical, so let's not go crazy on this ship.
It is definitely.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
True that I only made it a competition between you,
me and Nick once I started to crush it and
distance myself off the field. So you know, going into
next year, if I start four and nine, you know,
it's just luck.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But when I'm crushing it, it's skill. And you guys
are in a competition you didn't even know you had entered.
You know, I said I've had three of my favorite shows.
I would say in the last ten years, I have
had the last three shows in a row. I've had
about as much fun as I can have at this
(01:07):
point of thirty years. WAG So because I love free agency,
I love the movement. I love when stuff breaks on
the show. You know, I just I Sometimes I think,
you know, the audience thinks we love football and football season,
but I actually find it more challenging when the season's
over and we have to sit there for two hours
(01:28):
in the morning and figure out ways to be compelling,
and there's not a lot out there. So this week
it's basically you've got B level players sometimes C plus
players transitioning to bad teams. And yet I had so
much damn fun this week, and I want to start
with the Bears because I honestly, and I don't remember
the last time I thought this. I it's obvious Ben
(01:51):
Johnson now runs the organization because he basically by acquiring
a guard a center, a guard is telling Ryan Pole,
your picks were not good. You know the organization. Well,
that's my take is there are certain coaches. Rabel and
New England is running the show. Belichick for years ran
(02:13):
the show. Mcvay's got a lot of power in Los Angeles,
whereas Brett Veat really runs personnel because Andy Reid doesn't
want to do it. Sean Payton's running Denver. Didn't it
feel like to you this is all Ben Johnson's stamp.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So I've heard you say this, and I think that
you're like eighty five to ninety percent correct. Ben Johnson
clearly now outranks Ryan Poles. And it's not a straight
like who makes more money, but it kind of is.
Ben Johnson makes considerably more money than Ryan Poles, and
obviously Ryan poles Is stock is down and Ben Johnson's
(02:50):
stock could not have been higher. So Ben Johnson has
more say. And the Jonah Jackson move is directly tied
to Ben Johnson. And that was the first move that happened.
They traded a late round pick for a guard from
the Rams who had been a former pro bowler, but
before he was with the Rams, he had been with
the Lions and Ben Johnson. Obviously the Lions have the
(03:11):
best offensive line them and the Eagles in the NFL.
He knows how valuable that is. I think Ryan Poles
has taken a little too much heat in this regard.
He was Matt Ryan's offensive lineman at BC. He is
a former offensive lineman. He was on a practice squad
(03:33):
in the NFL as an offensive lineman. His first ever
first rounds pick because the first year he didn't have
a first round pick because the previous regime had traded
one way to acquire justin fields. So his first year,
his first raft, he had two second round picks, and
he took Kyler Gordon and Jakwan Brisker, who are both
(03:53):
starting players in the secondary and then the next year,
when he had the ninth overall pick, he traded down
one spot, passed up Jalen Carter. I disagreed with it,
but he didn't think the organization was ready for the headache,
and he took Darnell Wright, who looks like he's going
to be the right tackle for the team for ten years.
Maybe not an All Pro, but he looks damn good.
But he yeah going to get us. And some of
(04:17):
the draft people were like, should it have been Broderick Jones,
the guy who went I think seventeen to the Steelers,
who wasn't able to start for a year plus and
definitely is not guaranteed to be a ten year starter
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And then so.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I think first time he had a first round pick,
he drafted a tackle. He gave Nate Davis money. Nate
Davis had a pretty good reputation. Mark Schlereth has told
me that he's like Nate Davis was one of my
favorite guards in the NFL when he was in Tennessee
Atlanta at taper off a little bit, Bear's paid him,
and it looks like Nate Davis got paid and stopped trying. Ye, So,
(04:58):
but it's not like that guy didn't have good tape,
and it's not like people didn't like him, and it's
not like that wasn't a significant investment in the offensive line.
Kevin Jenkins was a former second round pick as a
tackle who he moved to left guard Ryan Poles did,
and he was a better guard than tackle. But then
he got hurt and he can't stay on the field
and he never invested in center, which was has been
(05:19):
a disaster.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That Bears literally haven't had a good center since Olin Kreutz.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And left tackle is Braxton Jones, who I would not
say is good, but I would also not say is bad.
He's a replacement level player that Ryan Poles drafted in
the fifth round out of Southern Utah. That's a draft win.
What happened last year was a mediocre offensive line got
(05:48):
hurt with a rookie quarterback, and you fired your play
caller and your head coach so you couldn't scheme around it.
The offensive line was a disaster. Your quarterback got hit
six eight times, and it became a fire alarm, like
this is we're going to get Kayleb Williams killed. We
are like really flirting with David Carr level of sabotage
(06:11):
here if we don't overhaul it. So that's long winded
and maybe a little bit more in the weeds than
people that don't follow the Bears want to know. But like,
I don't think it's that Ryan Poles doesn't prioritize the
offensive line. I think it's that when he took over,
he had such limited resources with draft capital that it
took a while. And last year was never supposed to
(06:33):
be a good offensive line, but it wasn't supposed to
be that bad. And I think that anybody would have
spent on the offensive line this offseason, but Ben Johnson
kind of turbo charged it, and so he gets credit
for it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
But I can't.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I have a hard time believing that a smart guy
who came up under Brett Vik who by the way,
I'll add one more detail. He was the director of
college personnel in Kansas City when they lost that Super
Bowl to Tampa, And in the off season they signed
Joe Tooney, they drafted Creed Humphrey, and they drafted Tray Smith.
(07:13):
Creed Humphrey now set the market at center, Tray Smith
set the market at guard, and now Joe Tooney's a
Bear and he was an All Pro for a couple
of years in Kansas City. So he was in Kansas
City when Mahomes got killed in a Super Bowl, they
brought in three new offensive linemen. He's the GM in Chicago,
when Kayleb Williams got killed, they brought in three offensive linemen,
one of whom is literally the same guy they brought
(07:34):
in Kansas City. So I think Ryan Pohls knows about
the offensive line, cares about the offensive line, prioritizes the
offensive line. He just made a couple of bad mistakes
Nate Davis most principally not investing in a real center
probably right behind it, and he underestimated how little.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Depth he had to protect Kayleb Williams last year? Is
there anything that I mean? They have the Vikings back
to back in London. I don't like Minnesota like everybody else.
I think they're a fourth place team. Was there anything
about the schedule that jumped out to you?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I think when you look at I lump Minnesota in
Chicago in the same thing, I got thirty years of history.
Green Bay every year, for the most part, is ten
plus wins right right in the Lions. Now, I think
have established themselves. What happens in the playoffs, who knows,
but they're going to be a double digit win team.
When you look at the Bears and you look at
Minnesota because of the divisions that they drew this year
(08:27):
in the rotation, it's hard and the pressure. Listen this
Caleb thing, I'm sure we'll talk about it. A lot
of pressure on him, a lot of pressure on the Bears,
a lot of pressure on McCarthy. And the pressure is
not like on DJ Moore or Justin Jefferson. It's squarely
on the quarterback. And these games, like you said, you open,
(08:47):
you open your your NFL career at Chicago.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
That's just that's tough.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
And hell, you could argue the same thing on the
flip side about at Caleb Williams, your first game with
his new coach Monday night. For everyone watching, these are
intense environments on these two quarterbacks. Now, Caleb has some
seasoning like he JJ does not in terms of ever
played a regular season game. But I think those two
schedules for those two guys, not every team in this
division can win ten plus games. One of these teams
(09:14):
is going to go eight or nine or worse. Right,
it's gonna be one of those two teams. I don't
know which one. Like, I know Kevin O'Connell can be
a head coach. I love the Vikings roster, but man,
this guy's never started a regular season game. If you
told me right now he's a top fifteen quarterback, I'd
be like, they'll win ten or eleven games, no problem.
But if you tell me it's Rocky, I don't care
(09:36):
how you could have ten justin Jeffersons, if your quarterback
plays overwhelmed, it's hard. I mean we see it every year.
Good teams are the quarterback plays.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Well and screwed, and the Packers drafted a first round
round wide receiver. The Lions are stacked offensively. The Bears
has been a fortunother offensive line. JJ McCarthy's gonna have
to throw the ball thirty five times. This is not
a defensive division. This is not the AFC nor this
is the NFC North and it is going to be
a track meet. And so that's my question with JJ McCarthy.
(10:07):
I would feel differently if you were in a different division.
But Detroit is stacked offensively with the best of line
in the league. You can say what you want about.
Ben Johnson is going to be better with Caleb Williams
than Matti. Everflus and Dolmen and Toney changed the offensive line. Yeah,
and then you know green Bay's Green Bay. They went
and got another wider receiver, which tells you we're going
(10:29):
to make this Jordan love thing work. And it wasn't
terrible last year. There was some bumps. So my thing
is McCarthy, who never threw the ball at Michigan, is
going to be asked to throw the ball forty times
a game a lot because either they'll be trailing or
they'll be in shootouts. This is going to be a
shootout division. So I just don't love them with that
is the marquet of the movie.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But do you feel comfortable? I mean, listen, we have
a strong recent history of these young offensive coordinators hitting
the ground, running and being stars. Some of them get
overwhelmed historically in the league, like Ben Johnson. It is
this is not an easy first job, right. It's like
solid with the Jets. A lot of people are watching.
There's a ton of hype. The Caleb stuff is already
(11:11):
even though it's weird. Right, everything we're talking about today
in this article is based on something eighteen months ago.
It's not like he just said this yesterday. But still,
I mean, this is something that carries with you. I
think there's a ton of pressure on him because I
would say the same thing about Caleb, like he's just
gonna outduel the Lafor's offense and the Lions group. I
(11:31):
mean it's gonna be hard, Like he's gonna get in
some shootouts. You know, he kind of freelanced now he's
more comfortable. He has a history, he is used to.
I've been in shootouts, so I can play like that
JJ was not. I mean JJ was on a team
that I mean was the big Ohio State is always
built like an SEC team, but Hardball built that thing
like an SEC team with unlimited NFL players where they
(11:51):
hand the ball off and they play defense.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So yeah, that's right, one of those two teams.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I gotta give it a little more time, but it's
just not going to go as well is to hype
because the expectations I would say for I mean for Minnesota,
they have a what do you think a top six
to seven roster in the NFL minus the quarterback. I
mean they got one of the better teams in the
NFL top to bottom, and I say the Bears have
a pretty damn good roster too.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Oh, I totally think I think Chicago's offensive you go line,
tight end, receivers and Ben Johnson, I just don't see,
you know. I mean, go look at Hackett to Sean Payton.
It was a touchdown to eight points a game, and
I think eber Flews to Ben Johnson is probably somewhere
(12:34):
between a field goal and six points a game.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
But here's the thing, though, Colin, and this is what
I get back to with the coordinator Ben with Detroit,
who was just became like Kyle shanahan or mcpagh or whoever.
All he had to worry about was the place right now.
On Monday. What happens when you're a backup safety got
a DUI on Tuesday. Hey, this guy turns out he
shattered his ankle. Like you have all this other stuff coming.
(12:58):
You can't just sit there and scheme plays NonStop, especially
the first time head coach, and then when the game's
going on, you got to manage the cl You've got
a lot going on for the first time ever, it's
just a tougher transition. And that's where Kevin O'Connell, to me,
has a big advantage. He is used to just being
the play caller slash the boss. Like there is a
learning If you told me, hey, John, you not only
(13:20):
need to get all the content and record a podcast,
we now need you to run the sales and the
graphics and do some cuts you need to do, it'd
be a curve for a couple of months of me
figuring out how to manage everything right. So that's I'm
always just hesitant when it comes to guys first time
head coaches, Like think how much easier Pete Carroll. He's
sitting in that desk he's very comfortable in, you know,
(13:42):
telling who what to do when like he's just done
it before. So that's that's the only thing. And I'm
not anti Ben Johnson. I mean what he did the
last couple of years was awesome. It is just a
lot harder taking on a lot more responsibility and trying
to maintain your boy genius kind of narrative. The way
everyone talks.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
About him, like, you know, the Kleeb thing is funny.
So I went on Chicago radio a year ago for
the Draft, and I don't do a lot of local
radio shows because I don't know who the people are,
and you know they you can get burned. But I
knew I was going to move to Chicago. So I
go on the Chicago radio station. I forget which one,
and I say, you know, I'm being told that it's
(14:23):
Caleb Williams. Would ideally his dad would not want him
to go to Chicago, but he's going to bite the
bullet and he loves the city and he wants to
he wants to be the first Great Bears quarterback. Well,
I go off the air and somebody sends me something
or a clip or something. They basically dogged my sources.
Coward doesn't know anything. Well, it comes out Seth Wickersham
(14:44):
basically today came out and said yeah, basically his dad
didn't want him to go there. He's got multiple quotes,
and I'm like, well, may have been that Seth and
I had some of the same sources. He had agents.
Apparently Seth that talked to his dad have been multiple agents.
I didn't get it from Caleb's dad, but I did
get it from people very close to Caleb, and so
(15:07):
I think it was the same station reached out and said, hey,
you want to come back on and spike the football,
and I'm like, yeah, I'm going to pass on that.
You know, I'm not bitter, but it's like, you know,
if I give you that, if you if I give
you the time, don't question my sources. You don't have
to like my opinion. But you know, I wouldn't go
on and make stuff up. So and the truth was,
and I was, didn't.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Caleb kind of come out or like some of his
people right away after you said that and say it's
kind of right.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, well they said we're good, We're good. Of course
they did. They don't and I and you know, like
I knew the game. That's why I didn't react to that.
I knew what was going on. I knew what I'd
been told. The knew it was the truth. Somebody who
had been good never burned me. It was fourth or
fifth time I've gotten good information from somebody. But the
(15:53):
point was I didn't blame him. I said, yeah, if
my son was a quarterback, I wouldn't want him to
play for the Bears. I've never had a four thousand
yeard passer. That's literally impossible. That's like right, driving a
car for your entire life and never having like a
parking ticket or a speeding ticket. It's just gonna happen.
It's inevitable, right like and so any And when the
story came out today, my take is it just doesn't
(16:16):
bother me. Like they looked into you know, what could
they do legally and they said, yeah, the only way
around it is just to do an L way and
go public and let's just let's just not do it.
But it doesn't bother me. We've got an ELI situation,
We've got an L way, and I think the Bears
are historically unique. It's they've just never done that position, right?
(16:37):
Does it bother you? Now that Seth Wickersham comes out
and says, yeah, they thought about making a stink.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
No, I mean, ultimately, I don't really give a shit,
but I would say this. I don't think it helps Kaleb.
And I always take the stance of like, I never
blame you know, wives parents. Their relationship with a player
is so much different than everyone else, right, so they
are so much closer to the sun emotionally. It doesn't
(17:06):
bother me. I know people with Oklahoma. I was hearing
a long time ago that his dad's a lot. That's
part of college sports. You deal a lot with the
parents in the pros. Nobody wants to hear from mom
or dad.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Not a soul.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We're paying Caleb forty million dollars guaranteed, let's throw thirty touchdowns.
And I think his comments sometimes like, you know, he's
trying to be a support of dad. The one has
any issue with that. Jayden Daniels's mom, of course, is
all the floozies to stay away from her son. Well,
guess what her son's playing really well in football. She
(17:41):
doesn't talk anything about his professional life. It's all personal stuff.
This guy comes out and makes comments about the CBA
is unconstitutional, the rookie Wade scale. Well, why do they
create a rookie Wade scale because guys like JaMarcus Russell
were scamming the league where the veterans weren't getting the money. So, Caleb,
you know if that rooks wage scale hadn't been so
(18:01):
when you make comments like that, people kind of look
side eyed.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
And the other thing that's really comes through is Ryan
Poles is quoted in there like we're taking you, buddy,
so get ready like this you talk about this A lot.
Player empowerment in the NFL doesn't really roll like that.
I would say this if you're Ryan Poles, like you
know Adam Peters. Do you think Adam Peters right now
would trade Jayden Daniels for Caleb Williams in this situation.
And here's the other thing. A lot of Caleb's Caleb
(18:27):
wasn't making these comments about the CBA are going to
the UFL. Is coming from his dad. But all these
comments get aggregated and a lot of the players in
the league see this and they're like, who does this
kid think he is?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And I just think it adds pressure.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And again, this is I would be more worked up
if these comments came last week or two weeks ago.
This was last January February before he got into the NFL.
But I'm sorry, it just does not help his situation.
It adds pressure, It just adds a lot of craziness
to this situation. New coach and they get to start fresh.
But I just think that, like we just need to
(19:01):
calm down and just and just win some games and
throw some touchdowns before you start. Remember last year the
equity talk, we want in on the franchise. You're gonna
go to the UFL and sit out of You're like,
kive me a break, you know, and look again, this
is his dad, not it's Caleb. It's not saying I'm
going to the UFL. And at the end of the day,
all these comments didn't come true. He just allowed he
(19:22):
went to the Bears and what they were not wrong
about the coaching staff. I mean that was a disaster,
which we all knew coming in. But I think sometimes
with a very aggressive parent like this, and I haven't
seen a quote from Caleb's dad since he got in
the league, you gotta be careful about saying some of
this stuff because your son has to cash those checks
on the field. So I just think if you're the Bears,
(19:46):
like you're like, oh my god when you see this
come out, because again, didn't he write a book on
a bunch of quarterbacks And this is the thing that
gets cut and this is you know, the headlines going viral,
getting just sent around. I'm telling you, Adam p goes
to bed like out my cornerbacks just no issues, no problems,
And it's just sometimes it's your family, but man, this
(20:07):
is you just don't want it to deal with any
of this, especially when you're not making place. I mean,
it did not go well.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, I think he's set up for success now. I
mean we were talking about it in the show today.
Tua and Jared Goff had bad first years in bad
relationships with coaches or at least coach coaches that didn't
get them. I do think there's more good offensive coaching
than ever before in the league, and your second or
third team Gino Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker, Mayfield. You know,
(20:34):
Baker got Liam Cohen and McVeigh after Freddie Kitchens, like
it does sometimes take a while. It used to be
if your first place didn't work, there just weren't that
many great offensive coaches in the league and they weren't
leading places where they were located. Now, guys, it's a
much more mobile society. There's good offensive coaches. If you
have one or two good years at a place, you're
(20:54):
a head coach, if you're an offensive coach, so you
can you can actually have a hiccup in your first
stop and maybe your second and maybe get a third shot.
So I think that bows well for Caleb. Like a
Jared Goff, I didn't think he stood a chance last year.
I think it's much more set up to succeed. Nothing
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(21:17):
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Speaker 1 (22:34):
So I want to end with this, so you you
would and I would admit this too. I've moved around
the country. People know that. Generally when I move around
the country, the only sports team that I tend to.
It's hard because I love football so much. When I
lived in Tampa, that's kind of a Bucks fan. I
grew up in the Northwest. I was a Seahawks fan.
I live in Los Angeles. I'm a Ramn Charger fan.
(22:56):
I try not to be a Homer on the air,
but it's it's I know people in the front office
contacts there. Now I moved to Chicago, I've already got
connections with the Bears, right, so I'm talking to people
and so, and you grew up here. So I under
I've always understood that Bill Simmons loves the Celtics, you're
gonna love your teams. I get it right, like like
in the audience understands that you're still objective. But I
said this this week on the show on f S one,
(23:18):
I said, I'm going to take five quarterbacks that we
that we would We're not going to I'm not going
to take a Justin Herbert overrated, Jalen Hurst underrated. I'm
not going to take guys on their fringe. I'm going
to take Andrew Louck, Jayden Daniels, Joe Burrow. Who else
did I take?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
C J?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Stroud? I took somebody else. I took five of them,
And I said, and I didn't take Mahomes. I took
Lamar Jackson. So I said, let's get mahomes Alan out. Okay,
they're like historically great. Like, so I took five guys
that none of us are going to argue they're all great.
How long once they had a competent coach did it
take for you to go, oh shit, there as a
(23:58):
franchise guy? So C J. Stroud did not throw an
interception until week six, pretty obvious he was different. Lamar
Jackson won six of US verst seven and by the
second game you were wondering if he was even faster
than Michael Vick. He was electric. Joe Burrow weeks two
and three is throwing for three hundred and fifty yards
(24:19):
behind an absolutely atrocious offensive line with a coach nobody liked.
Jade Daniels weeks two, three and four, He's completing like
twenty eight of thirty one. You're like, okay, this is
a cheat code. What is going on? And Joe and
so I went down and through all of them. So
now I bring you to Caleb Williams. Yeah, so again
(24:42):
golf with Jeff Fisher, Goff with McVeigh. By week two,
he's throwing for three hundred and fifty yards. You're like, oh,
Jared Goff can play like he's he's beating Mahomes in
a shootout on Monday Night football. You're like, you know,
pretty early in his career, you're like, oh, yeah, this guy,
this dude can play. So first week so my take
is good, not great, is hard to spot, real deal
(25:10):
and sucks jumps off the page. So week one, Caleb
Williams faces Brian floor is at home perfect weather. Let's
say he struggles. Brian Flores has been punitive to young
quarterbacks and cayleb Williams is bad. What is your take.
(25:34):
I won't be handling it well, Colin. I'll tell you
that I won't be handling it well. He needs to
be very good right away. Hey, but here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Obviously, I watched every down of the Bears last year
and have for my entire life.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
He is good. He's good now.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
It was not easy.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It was not always pretty, but I trust my eye
test here. If you get sacked sixty eight times and
still have better than a three to one touchdown the
interception ratio, and your play caller got fired nine games
in to your season, and then you fire your coach,
(26:24):
and you had controversy and you lost on a Hail Mary,
and you had all of that hype and that scrutiny,
and the guy who was drafted behind you is having
a historic rookie year and goes all the way to
the NFC Championship game and you get your ass kicked,
and you play all seventeen games and like you're still
standing at the end of it, you don't suck like bad.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
You said like good bad. It's a little He's not bad.
He's not bad. I'm not worried about bad.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It's I still think the guy's ceiling can be MVP
of the league. Like I still think greatness is very
likely an outcome here. But yeah, Week one, Minnesota Monday
Night football. Week two against his old team, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I mean no, I will say this. I will say this.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It seems like forty percent of the years in the
last decade, the Bears have opened with the Packers.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I know that's not.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Actually accurate, but it feels that way. That's the absolute worst.
Any Bears fan will tell you. Bears packers. It's just
as like a different thing. All of our families have
some Packers people in it, like and for me it
was extreme. My dad's entire family was from Wisconsin. You
just you're in weddings with these people, you work with
(27:44):
these people, your neighbors with these people. Like my old
radio station signal like reaches far into Wisconsin, like you
could hear it in Milwaukee. So like it's just like
Bears packers. Week one is too stressful, there's too many
grand Like I can handle Bears Vikings. I can handle
Bears Lions week one, Bears Packers. If Caleb Williams would
(28:05):
come out week one and get out played by Jordan
Love and they would lose and he'd throw like two picks,
that's just like Sky's falling type stuff. So I think
I can handle Bears Vikings on Monday Night Football week one.
But if he's terrible, I'm not gonna be handling you.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's gonna be tough to be neutral. I'll be I'll
be totally honest with you. That's gonna be unfortunate. But
if he's great, oh deep dish beets on TV for everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
No, I saw that first game and I went, oh, god, Flores,
what a nightmare Flora. Yeah, it's not a great spot.
But but again, like, but it can go the other way.
Put up thirty. Put put up thirty.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
We never mentioned Shane Waldron's name in Chicago ever again,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Like, wasted rookie year? Why did you hire you? Why
didn't you blow it all up?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Start fresh with Kate, like put up thirty week one
and all of your sins are forgiven and we're good.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, you know the air thing, Danny. That wasn't true
years ago. There's so many good young offensive coaches now
in the NFL. Yeah, it used to be if your
first coach didn't work, you were screwed. But like Gino,
Donald Baker, tu Ahead, Brian Flores then he was a
pro bowler, Goff's first year was not only unremarkable, it
(29:28):
was unrecognizable. So truth is now there are multiple examples.
Sam Darnold's a totally different player. It used to be
there were like four or five offensive guys that were
next level, Like every other staff has the next Ben
Johnson or an offensive coach. So I mean, god, look
at I mean, you go to the AFC alone, it's like, oh,
(29:50):
there's Andy Reid, and oh there's Sean Payton, and there's
Jim Harbaugh in this and Chip Kelly in the same division.
You have those four coaches on staff. So I think
we've gotten to a point where if you have a
Mulligan season, it's just I mean, nobody remembers Goff's first
season he was owing seven.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I think. Yeah, Listen, in Jacksonville, Trevor Lawrence showed enough
through multiple failed coaches, they still gave them a quarter
of a billion dollar contract. They hit on Brian Thomas.
Last year, they draft Travis Hunter. This year they hire
Liam Cohen to be their coach, who was a big
part of Baker Mayfield's success in Tampa, being as consistently
great on.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Offense as they've been. He's in your five.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Like, just Trevor Lawrence enraged me in way too many
fumbles and red zone interceptions, yet no doubt, like I
think that, like selling stock on, Trevor Lawrence has been
totally reasonable. Like his career is not over, right, you know,
it's his career is not over. If Liam Cohen could
(30:54):
do that with Baker, it's definitely on the board that
Trevor Lawrence turns this thing around and rips off five, six,
seven really good years and changes the complete narrative his career.
But now, listen, I think it's still much more likely
than not that Caleb Williams is great than he is mediocre.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Danny Parkins FS one love him on the volume, stops
by about once twice a month, as Oll was this
was great, Thanks buddy, Yeah, this was fun. Thanks go on.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Anytime people, people generally speaking, fear what they don't understand,
you know, maybe you don't. But I think a huge
percentage of people fear what they don't understand, and it's
complicated and you don't know where it's gonna go. It
clearly is the type of thing though that is like
(31:45):
a tool, right, It's gonna make some things worse and
a lot of things better. Your small business owner example
is a great one. It's going to help that guy's business.
How about this the Internet. It has killed retail, but
it took twenty five years, Like it killed malls, but
(32:06):
it didn't do it in two years. And the people
that were investing in malls, that paid attention fifteen years
ago were getting out of malls right like, so they
got out.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Of the business. You're going to have a heads up
on stuff. Nothing happens overnight. Even if it kills consultants,
it will be over a decade that it will kill
consultants because not everybody's going to use AI. Just like
it took our grandpa and our dad's years to figure
out the Internet. So things just everything needs to bake,
you know'll give you an example of this in sports.
(32:36):
So when the college football playoff was announced for twelve
teams eventually fourteen sixteen, it cut right down the middle.
There were the people like myself that are like, oh,
this is awesome. December is going to be awesome. These
bowl games are so dried up, Like we got forty
five bowl games. I watched four. I thought it was obvious,
(32:57):
like December now is going to be even better in
December is great with NFL playoffs, and we saw that
to be true. But there was another group, including a
lot of the media, that said, oh, it's gonna kill rivalries.
And my take is, when Texas played Georgia last year
was the highest rated game, right, I think before the
National Championship. That's not a rivalry. People watch good. When
(33:20):
Texas plays Ohio State on Fox over the Labor Day weekend,
people watch good, and they'll watch it a second time.
You watched Oregon Ohio State the first time, Sure it
was a terrible game, but you'll watch it the second time.
So my take is it doesn't matter. We watched. NFL
football teams can play three times in the season. I
remember years the Steelers and Ravens played three times. I
watched all of them, So that's like to me. I
(33:44):
was shocked by the number of people that were college
football fans like Diehard's or media that were like, this
is bad, it will kill urgency. Well, what it actually
did is it allows teams now like Ohio State and
Texas to play Opening Week and whoever loses is fine.
There'll be more big games in December and more big
(34:07):
games in September. Do you think it makes the week
one game less big? Though I watched great? No, I
know you do.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You are a super fan of college football Michigan Ohio State.
Last year, the loser of the game wins the national championship,
and on some level, not to a Michigan fan and
not to an Ohio State fan, but to a guy
(34:41):
who went to Syracuse, it did take away, and I
watched it and I will still watch it. It did
take away a little bit of the first Michigan Ohio
State game because it objectively matters less.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
But it didn't take it away in the moment as
Michig was shocking them as a twenty point dog. It
didn't hurt. Then in retrospect you look back and go, well,
it doesn't feel as big. Well, that's like saying a
year after you got a Christmas present, I don't feel
the same today as I did a year ago when
I got the Christmas present.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
No, I know, but I guess you take the lesson
and you go forward with it and you say there's good.
There is some like like the NFL has expanded the
playoffs right, easier to get in. We love the playoffs.
It's more football Week seventeen was terrible because most of
the teams were like, we're sitting guys, and team teams
(35:36):
have been a limitic and it's like, oh, well, what's
the difference between being the five seed and the sixth seed?
Like we're in, it doesn't matter. We're gonna still, we're
gonna sit guys, We're gonna play guys for a quarter.
So I think there is a trade off that comes
with more games and all that. And with college football. Listen,
I understood. I always was like more games I am
going to watch, and more big games, more big games
(36:00):
I am going to watch. But I had a hard
time with the college football. Argument for the expansion of
the playoffs was like, how many times in the BCS
era even did you feel like the fifth best team
in the country deserved a shot at.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Being the national champion. I didn't think that it existed.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And so if your argument is well, expand the tournament,
get them in, and then any given Sunday they can
or any given Saturday they can win it. That's fine,
but then it does take away a little bit of
the regular season to me. And again I will watch,
but I get My guess is as they keep expanding
this playoff, people will come away with it all. It'll
(36:47):
blend together and the Week six game is not going
to feel as big.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
But in mid October, double the number of teams to
triple are still in the hunt for a fourteen game
playoff or a twelve game playoff. Where it used to
be if you lost a game in September, you lost
another when you were done, and so the last outs
(37:13):
of the season you're out and going to talk. Now,
Like Ohio State loses to Oregon, then they lose to Michigan,
You're like shit, oh, oh my god, Ryan Day's gonna
get fired if they lose to Tennessee. So the story
went from winning to Ryan Day's getting blought. Oh they
just blew up Tennessee. Well he better beat Oregon. Oh
they blew him out, Well they better beat So the
(37:35):
story changed from just the game to are they gonna
blow up Ryan Day's career, so to me, it pivoted
from Okay, Ohio State still gonna get in, but remember
the story before the Tennessee game, Ryan Day can't lose respired,
so there was a different drama. It wasn't and nobody
thought Ohio State, most people even in Columbus didn't think
(37:56):
they were gonna win on Natty. After losing the Michigan
people were like no, they were like going overboard. Yeah
they were.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
It was insane and now you're gonna get games like
like Arizona State's gonna you know, they made it and
it was a nice story. And then the spread in
the game was like twenty points, right for a college
football playoff game. It does like it just it doesn't.
That part of it is gonna feel a little weird
(38:27):
to me because can they win, yes, but like what
was there any part of you that thought that Arizona
State could have gone on a run and won the
next jack No, no, but zero zero part of you.
So it felt a little bit like a waste of time.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Okay, but I think there's only five teams that can
win the Super Bowl next year going into the season. Yeah,
but that's just not true. That's just not true. Well,
Kansas City, Buffalo, Baltimore are just They've just got better players,
better coach. I think we both think Denver and the
Chargers are interesting, but bow Nick's hoisting a trophy seems rare.
(39:06):
We know Philadelphia is really really good, and McVeigh and
the Rams will be there, and then there'll be a
couple of really interesting teams. I don't think brock Kurdy
now with an older team and a shaky old line works.
But I've been arguing this for years. There's way less
parody in the NFL than everybody thinks. And the reason
I know that because for the second year in a row,
I can pick the division winners easily in the AFC,
(39:29):
and it's getting to the point picking division winners in
the NFL six of eight is not that difficult. Okay, but.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Do you think Washington could have won the Super Bowl
last year? No, there's always a shocking team. I had
picked the Rams the year before as the shocking team.
I picked, by the way last year, Washington and Denver
to be the shocking teams.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
How did I do that? Well? Because I think they
were so poorly run with Dan Snyder that all the
new guys easy division wins against Dallas and the the Giants.
So I actually picked Washington and Denver to be much
better like this year. I think it's obvious New England
and Tennessee are going to double their win total. So
even the surprises are pretty I've done four years in
(40:12):
a row where I've picked the double your win team.
It's going to be New England this year, and and
Chicago see tennis it. So let's let's go to Chicaggles.
I I I don't I find the division very weird?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Oh listen, I mean we I I we could go,
we could do the.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Listen, we'll We'll do a lot of Bears at some
point before the year. Here's the thing, big advantage of
the Bears. Yeah, they got a lot better. JJ McCarthy,
you're going to see it very quickly. Is not what
people think. And the Lions lost both coordinators. So whereas
we look at the AFC West and go, god, that's
(40:57):
a good division, we say that about then have seen North.
We don't know about Jordan Love, We really don't. JJ
McCarthy is a c quarterback. You ever seen JJ McCarthy's
fourth quarter college stats and playing from behind fourth quarter
stats in college. With Michigan and Harbor on that old line,
they're terrible. Detroit's pulling back because they're O. Line in
(41:20):
the middle is a mess and they lost both coordinators.
That is a is a real bonus. That division, we
think is really well, it's well coached. I think the
Bears have an opportunity to win ten or eleven games.
I don't think it's as good a division as people think. Well,
then they would be a double ye win team.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
They if they can, if they can get to double digits,
I mean, I think that having the level of coaching
in that division is just very.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Very very high.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
And so I think that that makes the worst team
in that division.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Like, let's say you're right about JJ McCarthy, he still
is Kevin O'Connell, Jordan Addison, and Justin Jefferson.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Like they got Kirk Cousins to be near five thousand yards,
they got Sam Darnold one hundred million dollars. Like JJ
McCarthy doesn't need to be awesome in order for that
offense to be pretty good. And let's say Minnesota is
the worst team in the division this year. They won
fourteen games last year. It's it's it's a pretty good
worst team if that's what they are, or if the
(42:23):
Bears are the worst team in the division, that's a
pretty tough worst team. So like, even if they're not
top heavy dominant, I don't see there being any team
in that division that's just like straight up bad. There's
no Cleveland Browns in that division. You know, There's there's
no there's no Jets, there's no Giants, there's no push
over there. So I think that's what's going to make
it tough is that they each ste have to play
(42:44):
each other six times, and the team that does the
best in that division might go four and two.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
You know, they might just beat each other up this year.
Danny Parkins co host breakfast Ball, the winner of the
mythical FS one NFL Picks Championship. It should be noted
it's just like the USA Today High School Basketball Championship.
It's all mythical, so let's not go crazy on this ship.
It is definitely.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
True that I only made it a competition between you,
me and Nick once I started to crush it and
distance myself off the field. So you know, going into
next year, if I start four and nine, you know,
it's just luck.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But when I'm crushing it, it's skill. And you guys
are in a competition you didn't even know you had entered.
You know, I said I've had three of my favorite shows.
I would say in the last ten years, I have
had the last three shows in a row. I've had
about as much fun as I can have at this
(01:07):
point of thirty years. WAG So because I love free agency,
I love the movement. I love when stuff breaks on
the show. You know, I just I Sometimes I think,
you know, the audience thinks we love football and football season,
but I actually find it more challenging when the season's
over and we have to sit there for two hours
(01:28):
in the morning and figure out ways to be compelling,
and there's not a lot out there. So this week
it's basically you've got B level players sometimes C plus
players transitioning to bad teams. And yet I had so
much damn fun this week, and I want to start
with the Bears because I honestly, and I don't remember
the last time I thought this. I it's obvious Ben
(01:51):
Johnson now runs the organization because he basically by acquiring
a guard a center, a guard is telling Ryan Pole,
your picks were not good. You know the organization. Well,
that's my take is there are certain coaches. Rabel and
New England is running the show. Belichick for years ran
(02:13):
the show. Mcvay's got a lot of power in Los Angeles,
whereas Brett Veat really runs personnel because Andy Reid doesn't
want to do it. Sean Payton's running Denver. Didn't it
feel like to you this is all Ben Johnson's stamp.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So I've heard you say this, and I think that
you're like eighty five to ninety percent correct. Ben Johnson
clearly now outranks Ryan Poles. And it's not a straight
like who makes more money, but it kind of is.
Ben Johnson makes considerably more money than Ryan Poles, and
obviously Ryan poles Is stock is down and Ben Johnson's
(02:50):
stock could not have been higher. So Ben Johnson has
more say. And the Jonah Jackson move is directly tied
to Ben Johnson. And that was the first move that happened.
They traded a late round pick for a guard from
the Rams who had been a former pro bowler, but
before he was with the Rams, he had been with
the Lions and Ben Johnson. Obviously the Lions have the
(03:11):
best offensive line them and the Eagles in the NFL.
He knows how valuable that is. I think Ryan Poles
has taken a little too much heat in this regard.
He was Matt Ryan's offensive lineman at BC. He is
a former offensive lineman. He was on a practice squad
(03:33):
in the NFL as an offensive lineman. His first ever
first rounds pick because the first year he didn't have
a first round pick because the previous regime had traded
one way to acquire justin fields. So his first year,
his first raft, he had two second round picks, and
he took Kyler Gordon and Jakwan Brisker, who are both
(03:53):
starting players in the secondary and then the next year,
when he had the ninth overall pick, he traded down
one spot, passed up Jalen Carter. I disagreed with it,
but he didn't think the organization was ready for the headache,
and he took Darnell Wright, who looks like he's going
to be the right tackle for the team for ten years.
Maybe not an All Pro, but he looks damn good.
But he yeah going to get us. And some of
(04:17):
the draft people were like, should it have been Broderick Jones,
the guy who went I think seventeen to the Steelers,
who wasn't able to start for a year plus and
definitely is not guaranteed to be a ten year starter
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And then so.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I think first time he had a first round pick,
he drafted a tackle. He gave Nate Davis money. Nate
Davis had a pretty good reputation. Mark Schlereth has told
me that he's like Nate Davis was one of my
favorite guards in the NFL when he was in Tennessee
Atlanta at taper off a little bit, Bear's paid him,
and it looks like Nate Davis got paid and stopped trying. Ye, So,
(04:58):
but it's not like that guy didn't have good tape,
and it's not like people didn't like him, and it's
not like that wasn't a significant investment in the offensive line.
Kevin Jenkins was a former second round pick as a
tackle who he moved to left guard Ryan Poles did,
and he was a better guard than tackle. But then
he got hurt and he can't stay on the field
and he never invested in center, which was has been
(05:19):
a disaster.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That Bears literally haven't had a good center since Olin Kreutz.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And left tackle is Braxton Jones, who I would not
say is good, but I would also not say is bad.
He's a replacement level player that Ryan Poles drafted in
the fifth round out of Southern Utah. That's a draft win.
What happened last year was a mediocre offensive line got
(05:48):
hurt with a rookie quarterback, and you fired your play
caller and your head coach so you couldn't scheme around it.
The offensive line was a disaster. Your quarterback got hit
six eight times, and it became a fire alarm, like
this is we're going to get Kayleb Williams killed. We
are like really flirting with David Carr level of sabotage
(06:11):
here if we don't overhaul it. So that's long winded
and maybe a little bit more in the weeds than
people that don't follow the Bears want to know. But like,
I don't think it's that Ryan Poles doesn't prioritize the
offensive line. I think it's that when he took over,
he had such limited resources with draft capital that it
took a while. And last year was never supposed to
(06:33):
be a good offensive line, but it wasn't supposed to
be that bad. And I think that anybody would have
spent on the offensive line this offseason, but Ben Johnson
kind of turbo charged it, and so he gets credit
for it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
But I can't.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I have a hard time believing that a smart guy
who came up under Brett Vik who by the way,
I'll add one more detail. He was the director of
college personnel in Kansas City when they lost that Super
Bowl to Tampa, And in the off season they signed
Joe Tooney, they drafted Creed Humphrey, and they drafted Tray Smith.
(07:13):
Creed Humphrey now set the market at center, Tray Smith
set the market at guard, and now Joe Tooney's a
Bear and he was an All Pro for a couple
of years in Kansas City. So he was in Kansas
City when Mahomes got killed in a Super Bowl, they
brought in three new offensive linemen. He's the GM in Chicago,
when Kayleb Williams got killed, they brought in three offensive linemen,
one of whom is literally the same guy they brought
(07:34):
in Kansas City. So I think Ryan Pohls knows about
the offensive line, cares about the offensive line, prioritizes the
offensive line. He just made a couple of bad mistakes
Nate Davis most principally not investing in a real center
probably right behind it, and he underestimated how little.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Depth he had to protect Kayleb Williams last year? Is
there anything that I mean? They have the Vikings back
to back in London. I don't like Minnesota like everybody else.
I think they're a fourth place team. Was there anything
about the schedule that jumped out to you?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I think when you look at I lump Minnesota in
Chicago in the same thing, I got thirty years of history.
Green Bay every year, for the most part, is ten
plus wins right right in the Lions. Now, I think
have established themselves. What happens in the playoffs, who knows,
but they're going to be a double digit win team.
When you look at the Bears and you look at
Minnesota because of the divisions that they drew this year
(08:27):
in the rotation, it's hard and the pressure. Listen this
Caleb thing, I'm sure we'll talk about it. A lot
of pressure on him, a lot of pressure on the Bears,
a lot of pressure on McCarthy. And the pressure is
not like on DJ Moore or Justin Jefferson. It's squarely
on the quarterback. And these games, like you said, you open,
(08:47):
you open your your NFL career at Chicago.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
That's just that's tough.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
And hell, you could argue the same thing on the
flip side about at Caleb Williams, your first game with
his new coach Monday night. For everyone watching, these are
intense environments on these two quarterbacks. Now, Caleb has some
seasoning like he JJ does not in terms of ever
played a regular season game. But I think those two
schedules for those two guys, not every team in this
division can win ten plus games. One of these teams
(09:14):
is going to go eight or nine or worse. Right,
it's gonna be one of those two teams. I don't
know which one. Like, I know Kevin O'Connell can be
a head coach. I love the Vikings roster, but man,
this guy's never started a regular season game. If you
told me right now he's a top fifteen quarterback, I'd
be like, they'll win ten or eleven games, no problem.
But if you tell me it's Rocky, I don't care
(09:36):
how you could have ten justin Jeffersons, if your quarterback
plays overwhelmed, it's hard. I mean we see it every year.
Good teams are the quarterback plays.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Well and screwed, and the Packers drafted a first round
round wide receiver. The Lions are stacked offensively. The Bears
has been a fortunother offensive line. JJ McCarthy's gonna have
to throw the ball thirty five times. This is not
a defensive division. This is not the AFC nor this
is the NFC North and it is going to be
a track meet. And so that's my question with JJ McCarthy.
(10:07):
I would feel differently if you were in a different division.
But Detroit is stacked offensively with the best of line
in the league. You can say what you want about.
Ben Johnson is going to be better with Caleb Williams
than Matti. Everflus and Dolmen and Toney changed the offensive line. Yeah,
and then you know green Bay's Green Bay. They went
and got another wider receiver, which tells you we're going
(10:29):
to make this Jordan love thing work. And it wasn't
terrible last year. There was some bumps. So my thing
is McCarthy, who never threw the ball at Michigan, is
going to be asked to throw the ball forty times
a game a lot because either they'll be trailing or
they'll be in shootouts. This is going to be a
shootout division. So I just don't love them with that
is the marquet of the movie.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But do you feel comfortable? I mean, listen, we have
a strong recent history of these young offensive coordinators hitting
the ground, running and being stars. Some of them get
overwhelmed historically in the league, like Ben Johnson. It is
this is not an easy first job, right. It's like
solid with the Jets. A lot of people are watching.
There's a ton of hype. The Caleb stuff is already
(11:11):
even though it's weird. Right, everything we're talking about today
in this article is based on something eighteen months ago.
It's not like he just said this yesterday. But still,
I mean, this is something that carries with you. I
think there's a ton of pressure on him because I
would say the same thing about Caleb, like he's just
gonna outduel the Lafor's offense and the Lions group. I
(11:31):
mean it's gonna be hard, Like he's gonna get in
some shootouts. You know, he kind of freelanced now he's
more comfortable. He has a history, he is used to.
I've been in shootouts, so I can play like that
JJ was not. I mean JJ was on a team
that I mean was the big Ohio State is always
built like an SEC team, but Hardball built that thing
like an SEC team with unlimited NFL players where they
(11:51):
hand the ball off and they play defense.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So yeah, that's right, one of those two teams.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
I gotta give it a little more time, but it's
just not going to go as well is to hype
because the expectations I would say for I mean for Minnesota,
they have a what do you think a top six
to seven roster in the NFL minus the quarterback. I
mean they got one of the better teams in the
NFL top to bottom, and I say the Bears have
a pretty damn good roster too.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Oh, I totally think I think Chicago's offensive you go line,
tight end, receivers and Ben Johnson, I just don't see,
you know. I mean, go look at Hackett to Sean Payton.
It was a touchdown to eight points a game, and
I think eber Flews to Ben Johnson is probably somewhere
(12:34):
between a field goal and six points a game.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
But here's the thing, though, Colin, and this is what
I get back to with the coordinator Ben with Detroit,
who was just became like Kyle shanahan or mcpagh or whoever.
All he had to worry about was the place right now.
On Monday. What happens when you're a backup safety got
a DUI on Tuesday. Hey, this guy turns out he
shattered his ankle. Like you have all this other stuff coming.
(12:58):
You can't just sit there and scheme plays NonStop, especially
the first time head coach, and then when the game's
going on, you got to manage the cl You've got
a lot going on for the first time ever, it's
just a tougher transition. And that's where Kevin O'Connell, to me,
has a big advantage. He is used to just being
the play caller slash the boss. Like there is a
learning If you told me, hey, John, you not only
(13:20):
need to get all the content and record a podcast,
we now need you to run the sales and the
graphics and do some cuts you need to do, it'd
be a curve for a couple of months of me
figuring out how to manage everything right. So that's I'm
always just hesitant when it comes to guys first time
head coaches, Like think how much easier Pete Carroll. He's
sitting in that desk he's very comfortable in, you know,
(13:42):
telling who what to do when like he's just done
it before. So that's that's the only thing. And I'm
not anti Ben Johnson. I mean what he did the
last couple of years was awesome. It is just a
lot harder taking on a lot more responsibility and trying
to maintain your boy genius kind of narrative. The way
everyone talks.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
About him, like, you know, the Kleeb thing is funny.
So I went on Chicago radio a year ago for
the Draft, and I don't do a lot of local
radio shows because I don't know who the people are,
and you know they you can get burned. But I
knew I was going to move to Chicago. So I
go on the Chicago radio station. I forget which one,
and I say, you know, I'm being told that it's
(14:23):
Caleb Williams. Would ideally his dad would not want him
to go to Chicago, but he's going to bite the
bullet and he loves the city and he wants to
he wants to be the first Great Bears quarterback. Well,
I go off the air and somebody sends me something
or a clip or something. They basically dogged my sources.
Coward doesn't know anything. Well, it comes out Seth Wickersham
(14:44):
basically today came out and said yeah, basically his dad
didn't want him to go there. He's got multiple quotes,
and I'm like, well, may have been that Seth and
I had some of the same sources. He had agents.
Apparently Seth that talked to his dad have been multiple agents.
I didn't get it from Caleb's dad, but I did
get it from people very close to Caleb, and so
(15:07):
I think it was the same station reached out and said, hey,
you want to come back on and spike the football,
and I'm like, yeah, I'm going to pass on that.
You know, I'm not bitter, but it's like, you know,
if I give you that, if you if I give
you the time, don't question my sources. You don't have
to like my opinion. But you know, I wouldn't go
on and make stuff up. So and the truth was,
and I was, didn't.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Caleb kind of come out or like some of his
people right away after you said that and say it's
kind of right.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, well they said we're good, We're good. Of course
they did. They don't and I and you know, like
I knew the game. That's why I didn't react to that.
I knew what was going on. I knew what I'd
been told. The knew it was the truth. Somebody who
had been good never burned me. It was fourth or
fifth time I've gotten good information from somebody. But the
(15:53):
point was I didn't blame him. I said, yeah, if
my son was a quarterback, I wouldn't want him to
play for the Bears. I've never had a four thousand
yeard passer. That's literally impossible. That's like right, driving a
car for your entire life and never having like a
parking ticket or a speeding ticket. It's just gonna happen.
It's inevitable, right like and so any And when the
story came out today, my take is it just doesn't
(16:16):
bother me. Like they looked into you know, what could
they do legally and they said, yeah, the only way
around it is just to do an L way and
go public and let's just let's just not do it.
But it doesn't bother me. We've got an ELI situation,
We've got an L way, and I think the Bears
are historically unique. It's they've just never done that position, right?
(16:37):
Does it bother you? Now that Seth Wickersham comes out
and says, yeah, they thought about making a stink.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
No, I mean, ultimately, I don't really give a shit,
but I would say this. I don't think it helps Kaleb.
And I always take the stance of like, I never
blame you know, wives parents. Their relationship with a player
is so much different than everyone else, right, so they
are so much closer to the sun emotionally. It doesn't
(17:06):
bother me. I know people with Oklahoma. I was hearing
a long time ago that his dad's a lot. That's
part of college sports. You deal a lot with the
parents in the pros. Nobody wants to hear from mom
or dad.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Not a soul.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We're paying Caleb forty million dollars guaranteed, let's throw thirty touchdowns.
And I think his comments sometimes like, you know, he's
trying to be a support of dad. The one has
any issue with that. Jayden Daniels's mom, of course, is
all the floozies to stay away from her son. Well,
guess what her son's playing really well in football. She
(17:41):
doesn't talk anything about his professional life. It's all personal stuff.
This guy comes out and makes comments about the CBA
is unconstitutional, the rookie Wade scale. Well, why do they
create a rookie Wade scale because guys like JaMarcus Russell
were scamming the league where the veterans weren't getting the money. So, Caleb,
you know if that rooks wage scale hadn't been so
(18:01):
when you make comments like that, people kind of look
side eyed.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
And the other thing that's really comes through is Ryan
Poles is quoted in there like we're taking you, buddy,
so get ready like this you talk about this A lot.
Player empowerment in the NFL doesn't really roll like that.
I would say this if you're Ryan Poles, like you
know Adam Peters. Do you think Adam Peters right now
would trade Jayden Daniels for Caleb Williams in this situation.
And here's the other thing. A lot of Caleb's Caleb
(18:27):
wasn't making these comments about the CBA are going to
the UFL. Is coming from his dad. But all these
comments get aggregated and a lot of the players in
the league see this and they're like, who does this
kid think he is?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And I just think it adds pressure.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And again, this is I would be more worked up
if these comments came last week or two weeks ago.
This was last January February before he got into the NFL.
But I'm sorry, it just does not help his situation.
It adds pressure, It just adds a lot of craziness
to this situation. New coach and they get to start fresh.
But I just think that, like we just need to
(19:01):
calm down and just and just win some games and
throw some touchdowns before you start. Remember last year the
equity talk, we want in on the franchise. You're gonna
go to the UFL and sit out of You're like,
kive me a break, you know, and look again, this
is his dad, not it's Caleb. It's not saying I'm
going to the UFL. And at the end of the day,
all these comments didn't come true. He just allowed he
(19:22):
went to the Bears and what they were not wrong
about the coaching staff. I mean that was a disaster,
which we all knew coming in. But I think sometimes
with a very aggressive parent like this, and I haven't
seen a quote from Caleb's dad since he got in
the league, you gotta be careful about saying some of
this stuff because your son has to cash those checks
on the field. So I just think if you're the Bears,
(19:46):
like you're like, oh my god when you see this
come out, because again, didn't he write a book on
a bunch of quarterbacks And this is the thing that
gets cut and this is you know, the headlines going viral,
getting just sent around. I'm telling you, Adam p goes
to bed like out my cornerbacks just no issues, no problems,
And it's just sometimes it's your family, but man, this
(20:07):
is you just don't want it to deal with any
of this, especially when you're not making place. I mean,
it did not go well.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, I think he's set up for success now. I
mean we were talking about it in the show today.
Tua and Jared Goff had bad first years in bad
relationships with coaches or at least coach coaches that didn't
get them. I do think there's more good offensive coaching
than ever before in the league, and your second or
third team Gino Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker, Mayfield. You know,
(20:34):
Baker got Liam Cohen and McVeigh after Freddie Kitchens, like
it does sometimes take a while. It used to be
if your first place didn't work, there just weren't that
many great offensive coaches in the league and they weren't
leading places where they were located. Now, guys, it's a
much more mobile society. There's good offensive coaches. If you
have one or two good years at a place, you're
(20:54):
a head coach, if you're an offensive coach, so you
can you can actually have a hiccup in your first
stop and maybe your second and maybe get a third shot.
So I think that bows well for Caleb. Like a
Jared Goff, I didn't think he stood a chance last year.
I think it's much more set up to succeed. Nothing
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Speaker 1 (22:34):
So I want to end with this, so you you
would and I would admit this too. I've moved around
the country. People know that. Generally when I move around
the country, the only sports team that I tend to.
It's hard because I love football so much. When I
lived in Tampa, that's kind of a Bucks fan. I
grew up in the Northwest. I was a Seahawks fan.
I live in Los Angeles. I'm a Ramn Charger fan.
(22:56):
I try not to be a Homer on the air,
but it's it's I know people in the front office
contacts there. Now I moved to Chicago, I've already got
connections with the Bears, right, so I'm talking to people
and so, and you grew up here. So I under
I've always understood that Bill Simmons loves the Celtics, you're
gonna love your teams. I get it right, like like
in the audience understands that you're still objective. But I
said this this week on the show on f S one,
(23:18):
I said, I'm going to take five quarterbacks that we
that we would We're not going to I'm not going
to take a Justin Herbert overrated, Jalen Hurst underrated. I'm
not going to take guys on their fringe. I'm going
to take Andrew Louck, Jayden Daniels, Joe Burrow. Who else
did I take?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
C J?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Stroud? I took somebody else. I took five of them,
And I said, and I didn't take Mahomes. I took
Lamar Jackson. So I said, let's get mahomes Alan out. Okay,
they're like historically great. Like, so I took five guys
that none of us are going to argue they're all great.
How long once they had a competent coach did it
take for you to go, oh shit, there as a
(23:58):
franchise guy? So C J. Stroud did not throw an
interception until week six, pretty obvious he was different. Lamar
Jackson won six of US verst seven and by the
second game you were wondering if he was even faster
than Michael Vick. He was electric. Joe Burrow weeks two
and three is throwing for three hundred and fifty yards
(24:19):
behind an absolutely atrocious offensive line with a coach nobody liked.
Jade Daniels weeks two, three and four, He's completing like
twenty eight of thirty one. You're like, okay, this is
a cheat code. What is going on? And Joe and
so I went down and through all of them. So
now I bring you to Caleb Williams. Yeah, so again
(24:42):
golf with Jeff Fisher, Goff with McVeigh. By week two,
he's throwing for three hundred and fifty yards. You're like, oh,
Jared Goff can play like he's he's beating Mahomes in
a shootout on Monday Night football. You're like, you know,
pretty early in his career, you're like, oh, yeah, this guy,
this dude can play. So first week so my take
is good, not great, is hard to spot, real deal
(25:10):
and sucks jumps off the page. So week one, Caleb
Williams faces Brian floor is at home perfect weather. Let's
say he struggles. Brian Flores has been punitive to young
quarterbacks and cayleb Williams is bad. What is your take.
(25:34):
I won't be handling it well, Colin. I'll tell you
that I won't be handling it well. He needs to
be very good right away. Hey, but here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Obviously, I watched every down of the Bears last year
and have for my entire life.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
He is good. He's good now.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
It was not easy.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It was not always pretty, but I trust my eye
test here. If you get sacked sixty eight times and
still have better than a three to one touchdown the
interception ratio, and your play caller got fired nine games
in to your season, and then you fire your coach,
(26:24):
and you had controversy and you lost on a Hail Mary,
and you had all of that hype and that scrutiny,
and the guy who was drafted behind you is having
a historic rookie year and goes all the way to
the NFC Championship game and you get your ass kicked,
and you play all seventeen games and like you're still
standing at the end of it, you don't suck like bad.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
You said like good bad. It's a little He's not bad.
He's not bad. I'm not worried about bad.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It's I still think the guy's ceiling can be MVP
of the league. Like I still think greatness is very
likely an outcome here. But yeah, Week one, Minnesota Monday
Night football. Week two against his old team, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I mean no, I will say this. I will say this.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It seems like forty percent of the years in the
last decade, the Bears have opened with the Packers.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I know that's not.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Actually accurate, but it feels that way. That's the absolute worst.
Any Bears fan will tell you. Bears packers. It's just
as like a different thing. All of our families have
some Packers people in it, like and for me it
was extreme. My dad's entire family was from Wisconsin. You
just you're in weddings with these people, you work with
(27:44):
these people, your neighbors with these people. Like my old
radio station signal like reaches far into Wisconsin, like you
could hear it in Milwaukee. So like it's just like
Bears packers. Week one is too stressful, there's too many
grand Like I can handle Bears Vikings. I can handle
Bears Lions week one, Bears Packers. If Caleb Williams would
(28:05):
come out week one and get out played by Jordan
Love and they would lose and he'd throw like two picks,
that's just like Sky's falling type stuff. So I think
I can handle Bears Vikings on Monday Night Football week one.
But if he's terrible, I'm not gonna be handling you.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's gonna be tough to be neutral. I'll be I'll
be totally honest with you. That's gonna be unfortunate. But
if he's great, oh deep dish beets on TV for everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
No, I saw that first game and I went, oh, god, Flores,
what a nightmare Flora. Yeah, it's not a great spot.
But but again, like, but it can go the other way.
Put up thirty. Put put up thirty.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
We never mentioned Shane Waldron's name in Chicago ever again,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Like, wasted rookie year? Why did you hire you? Why
didn't you blow it all up?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Start fresh with Kate, like put up thirty week one
and all of your sins are forgiven and we're good.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, you know the air thing, Danny. That wasn't true
years ago. There's so many good young offensive coaches now
in the NFL. Yeah, it used to be if your
first coach didn't work, you were screwed. But like Gino,
Donald Baker, tu Ahead, Brian Flores then he was a
pro bowler, Goff's first year was not only unremarkable, it
(29:28):
was unrecognizable. So truth is now there are multiple examples.
Sam Darnold's a totally different player. It used to be
there were like four or five offensive guys that were
next level, Like every other staff has the next Ben
Johnson or an offensive coach. So I mean, god, look
at I mean, you go to the AFC alone, it's like, oh,
(29:50):
there's Andy Reid, and oh there's Sean Payton, and there's
Jim Harbaugh in this and Chip Kelly in the same division.
You have those four coaches on staff. So I think
we've gotten to a point where if you have a
Mulligan season, it's just I mean, nobody remembers Goff's first
season he was owing seven.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I think. Yeah, Listen, in Jacksonville, Trevor Lawrence showed enough
through multiple failed coaches, they still gave them a quarter
of a billion dollar contract. They hit on Brian Thomas.
Last year, they draft Travis Hunter. This year they hire
Liam Cohen to be their coach, who was a big
part of Baker Mayfield's success in Tampa, being as consistently
great on.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Offense as they've been. He's in your five.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Like, just Trevor Lawrence enraged me in way too many
fumbles and red zone interceptions, yet no doubt, like I
think that, like selling stock on, Trevor Lawrence has been
totally reasonable. Like his career is not over, right, you know,
it's his career is not over. If Liam Cohen could
(30:54):
do that with Baker, it's definitely on the board that
Trevor Lawrence turns this thing around and rips off five, six,
seven really good years and changes the complete narrative his career.
But now, listen, I think it's still much more likely
than not that Caleb Williams is great than he is mediocre.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Danny Parkins FS one love him on the volume, stops
by about once twice a month, as Oll was this
was great, Thanks buddy, Yeah, this was fun. Thanks go on.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Anytime people, people generally speaking, fear what they don't understand,
you know, maybe you don't. But I think a huge
percentage of people fear what they don't understand, and it's
complicated and you don't know where it's gonna go. It
clearly is the type of thing though that is like
(31:45):
a tool, right, It's gonna make some things worse and
a lot of things better. Your small business owner example
is a great one. It's going to help that guy's business.
How about this the Internet. It has killed retail, but
it took twenty five years, Like it killed malls, but
(32:06):
it didn't do it in two years. And the people
that were investing in malls, that paid attention fifteen years
ago were getting out of malls right like, so they
got out.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Of the business. You're going to have a heads up
on stuff. Nothing happens overnight. Even if it kills consultants,
it will be over a decade that it will kill
consultants because not everybody's going to use AI. Just like
it took our grandpa and our dad's years to figure
out the Internet. So things just everything needs to bake,
you know'll give you an example of this in sports.
(32:36):
So when the college football playoff was announced for twelve
teams eventually fourteen sixteen, it cut right down the middle.
There were the people like myself that are like, oh,
this is awesome. December is going to be awesome. These
bowl games are so dried up, Like we got forty
five bowl games. I watched four. I thought it was obvious,
(32:57):
like December now is going to be even better in
December is great with NFL playoffs, and we saw that
to be true. But there was another group, including a
lot of the media, that said, oh, it's gonna kill rivalries.
And my take is, when Texas played Georgia last year
was the highest rated game, right, I think before the
National Championship. That's not a rivalry. People watch good. When
(33:20):
Texas plays Ohio State on Fox over the Labor Day weekend,
people watch good, and they'll watch it a second time.
You watched Oregon Ohio State the first time, Sure it
was a terrible game, but you'll watch it the second time.
So my take is it doesn't matter. We watched. NFL
football teams can play three times in the season. I
remember years the Steelers and Ravens played three times. I
watched all of them, So that's like to me. I
(33:44):
was shocked by the number of people that were college
football fans like Diehard's or media that were like, this
is bad, it will kill urgency. Well, what it actually
did is it allows teams now like Ohio State and
Texas to play Opening Week and whoever loses is fine.
There'll be more big games in December and more big
(34:07):
games in September. Do you think it makes the week
one game less big? Though I watched great? No, I
know you do.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You are a super fan of college football Michigan Ohio State.
Last year, the loser of the game wins the national championship,
and on some level, not to a Michigan fan and
not to an Ohio State fan, but to a guy
(34:41):
who went to Syracuse, it did take away, and I
watched it and I will still watch it. It did
take away a little bit of the first Michigan Ohio
State game because it objectively matters less.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
But it didn't take it away in the moment as
Michig was shocking them as a twenty point dog. It
didn't hurt. Then in retrospect you look back and go, well,
it doesn't feel as big. Well, that's like saying a
year after you got a Christmas present, I don't feel
the same today as I did a year ago when
I got the Christmas present.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
No, I know, but I guess you take the lesson
and you go forward with it and you say there's good.
There is some like like the NFL has expanded the
playoffs right, easier to get in. We love the playoffs.
It's more football Week seventeen was terrible because most of
the teams were like, we're sitting guys, and team teams
(35:36):
have been a limitic and it's like, oh, well, what's
the difference between being the five seed and the sixth seed?
Like we're in, it doesn't matter. We're gonna still, we're
gonna sit guys, We're gonna play guys for a quarter.
So I think there is a trade off that comes
with more games and all that. And with college football. Listen,
I understood. I always was like more games I am
going to watch, and more big games, more big games
(36:00):
I am going to watch. But I had a hard
time with the college football. Argument for the expansion of
the playoffs was like, how many times in the BCS
era even did you feel like the fifth best team
in the country deserved a shot at.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Being the national champion. I didn't think that it existed.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And so if your argument is well, expand the tournament,
get them in, and then any given Sunday they can
or any given Saturday they can win it. That's fine,
but then it does take away a little bit of
the regular season to me. And again I will watch,
but I get My guess is as they keep expanding
this playoff, people will come away with it all. It'll
(36:47):
blend together and the Week six game is not going
to feel as big.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
But in mid October, double the number of teams to
triple are still in the hunt for a fourteen game
playoff or a twelve game playoff. Where it used to
be if you lost a game in September, you lost
another when you were done, and so the last outs
(37:13):
of the season you're out and going to talk. Now,
Like Ohio State loses to Oregon, then they lose to Michigan,
You're like shit, oh, oh my god, Ryan Day's gonna
get fired if they lose to Tennessee. So the story
went from winning to Ryan Day's getting blought. Oh they
just blew up Tennessee. Well he better beat Oregon. Oh
they blew him out, Well they better beat So the
(37:35):
story changed from just the game to are they gonna
blow up Ryan Day's career, so to me, it pivoted
from Okay, Ohio State still gonna get in, but remember
the story before the Tennessee game, Ryan Day can't lose respired,
so there was a different drama. It wasn't and nobody
thought Ohio State, most people even in Columbus didn't think
(37:56):
they were gonna win on Natty. After losing the Michigan
people were like no, they were like going overboard. Yeah
they were.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
It was insane and now you're gonna get games like
like Arizona State's gonna you know, they made it and
it was a nice story. And then the spread in
the game was like twenty points, right for a college
football playoff game. It does like it just it doesn't.
That part of it is gonna feel a little weird
(38:27):
to me because can they win, yes, but like what
was there any part of you that thought that Arizona
State could have gone on a run and won the
next jack No, no, but zero zero part of you.
So it felt a little bit like a waste of time.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Okay, but I think there's only five teams that can
win the Super Bowl next year going into the season. Yeah,
but that's just not true. That's just not true. Well,
Kansas City, Buffalo, Baltimore are just They've just got better players,
better coach. I think we both think Denver and the
Chargers are interesting, but bow Nick's hoisting a trophy seems rare.
(39:06):
We know Philadelphia is really really good, and McVeigh and
the Rams will be there, and then there'll be a
couple of really interesting teams. I don't think brock Kurdy
now with an older team and a shaky old line works.
But I've been arguing this for years. There's way less
parody in the NFL than everybody thinks. And the reason
I know that because for the second year in a row,
I can pick the division winners easily in the AFC,
(39:29):
and it's getting to the point picking division winners in
the NFL six of eight is not that difficult. Okay, but.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Do you think Washington could have won the Super Bowl
last year? No, there's always a shocking team. I had
picked the Rams the year before as the shocking team.
I picked, by the way last year, Washington and Denver
to be the shocking teams.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
How did I do that? Well? Because I think they
were so poorly run with Dan Snyder that all the
new guys easy division wins against Dallas and the the Giants.
So I actually picked Washington and Denver to be much
better like this year. I think it's obvious New England
and Tennessee are going to double their win total. So
even the surprises are pretty I've done four years in
(40:12):
a row where I've picked the double your win team.
It's going to be New England this year, and and
Chicago see tennis it. So let's let's go to Chicaggles.
I I I don't I find the division very weird?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Oh listen, I mean we I I we could go,
we could do the.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Listen, we'll We'll do a lot of Bears at some
point before the year. Here's the thing, big advantage of
the Bears. Yeah, they got a lot better. JJ McCarthy,
you're going to see it very quickly. Is not what
people think. And the Lions lost both coordinators. So whereas
we look at the AFC West and go, god, that's
(40:57):
a good division, we say that about then have seen North.
We don't know about Jordan Love, We really don't. JJ
McCarthy is a c quarterback. You ever seen JJ McCarthy's
fourth quarter college stats and playing from behind fourth quarter
stats in college. With Michigan and Harbor on that old line,
they're terrible. Detroit's pulling back because they're O. Line in
(41:20):
the middle is a mess and they lost both coordinators.
That is a is a real bonus. That division, we
think is really well, it's well coached. I think the
Bears have an opportunity to win ten or eleven games.
I don't think it's as good a division as people think. Well,
then they would be a double ye win team.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
They if they can, if they can get to double digits,
I mean, I think that having the level of coaching
in that division is just very.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Very very high.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
And so I think that that makes the worst team
in that division.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Like, let's say you're right about JJ McCarthy, he still
is Kevin O'Connell, Jordan Addison, and Justin Jefferson.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Like they got Kirk Cousins to be near five thousand yards,
they got Sam Darnold one hundred million dollars. Like JJ
McCarthy doesn't need to be awesome in order for that
offense to be pretty good. And let's say Minnesota is
the worst team in the division this year. They won
fourteen games last year. It's it's it's a pretty good
worst team if that's what they are, or if the
(42:23):
Bears are the worst team in the division, that's a
pretty tough worst team. So like, even if they're not
top heavy dominant, I don't see there being any team
in that division that's just like straight up bad. There's
no Cleveland Browns in that division. You know, There's there's
no there's no Jets, there's no Giants, there's no push
over there. So I think that's what's going to make
it tough is that they each ste have to play
(42:44):
each other six times, and the team that does the
best in that division might go four and two.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
You know, they might just beat each other up this year.
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