Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out”!
Colin starts by giving his review of his airline experience during his recent vacation (3:30), and they both give their reaction to the Patriots “Dynasty” documentary on AppleTV+ (7:30).
They explore the ramifications of the NFL’s massive jump in salary cap (18:15) and the reasons why the Packers have drafted and developed players better than almost any other team for decades (25:30).
They contrast the problems the NBA and MLB have with overpaying average players to the system in the NFL (40:00), and why Roger Goodell has done such an incredible job managing the NFL and its brand (44:00).
Finally, Colin explains why Steve Kerr’s body of work has put him into Colin’s” top 5 guys” in NBA history (54:00) and tells a strange story that involves mistaken identity…and Taylor Swift (01:00:30)..
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd #3andOut
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right, off a week vacation. Nice to be back
in the saddle. Flew cross country. Just landed about an
hour ago. John Middlecoff, former NFL scout, going to the
NFL Combine here this week. Also three and out his
podcast Go Low as his golf podcast. Yeah, so I
(01:52):
got a first of all, I usually flight Delta. I
flew American Airlines back. I told my wife that's the
best meal I've ever had in a flight in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Would you eat?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Is incredible? So they start with fresh olives, you know,
heated almonds, pistachios, and then they go into this peach salad,
and then they have ahi tuna, and then they go
into tortilla soup, and then they go into green beans,
grain bread, olive oil, piece of chicken with like a
(02:27):
salce on it. That's what I chose and then I
waited about an hour and a half, took about a
half hour and anup, woke up and had like this
ginger and vanilla ice cream dessert. I told my wife,
I'm like that some thing's being experimented, like either profits
are through the roof of American Airlines, So tip of
the calf to American Airlines. I'm like, honey, I ate
(02:49):
better than you. And I was at thirty three thousand feet.
I can't help you.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
People complaining about flies a lot, and listen, I don't.
Everyone's had a bad experience here and there. But I
think for the most part, I mean, if you're not
flying Spirit Airlines, it's pretty darn good. Yeah, I mean
it's pretty darn good what we have in twenty twenty four,
especially in this country, if you live in major airports,
the ability to get around it can't be ever been
as easy as it is right now.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah. And I you know, one of the things years
ago I started doing well, I told my wife, just
we'll fly first class this point forward. Let's just do it.
They had a pod, so I watched, you know, I
downloaded a couple of Netflix and Apple TV shows. I downloaded,
you know, four or five episodes of stuff. All of
it was really really good. But I you know, I
think sometimes like I've been on planes. I've had three
(03:39):
or four people on planes that were crazy, like disruptive,
by and large, you know, most people just sit down quiet,
really good people. I've said this for years. I've been
a Delta flyer forever, forever. I think what our industry does,
commercial aviation, for how many people are at airports. And
(04:02):
for the record, I don't care what you think about
the economy. It can't be that bad because every flight
I've been on for six years is packed. And I
know what I'm paying for these seats, and they ain't
giving them away. There's no discounts here. My flight today, packed,
flight out packed. I don't I'm not a guy that
(04:23):
loves private, especially in the winter. I'm not gonna fly it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
If I can get a first class seat on a
three and a half hour flight, there's no need for
me to go private. I don't care. Most of the
flights are on time. Now you're taking off at Lagordia
at five point thirty on a Friday night, no shit,
you're gonna sit on the tarmac for a while. But
I just think I think sometimes in America we forget
how good our grocery stores are, Like we forget how
(04:50):
good an efficient our country is. I went to London
about six seven years ago, went to Wimbledon maybe eight
years ago. My hotel didn't have air conditioning, a high
end hotel, and the toilets were inconsistent. And I'm like, man,
if you went to a Marriotte, you'd go to complain
to management. In this country, I think sometimes we just
(05:11):
complained to complain.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I know multiple people, one that flies for United, one
that flies for American. They both flew fighter jets in
the Air Force. How does it get any better than that?
That guy's overqualified to fly us around the country. That's
like having Trent Williams as my personal security guard. I mean,
it doesn't get any better than that, right, And that's
(05:34):
who a lot of these pilots are. They served in
the military, flying a lot more expensive, a lot more
difficult aircrafts. And those are the guys that fly us
around for forty years from basically their age thirty till
when they retire.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah. I mean I couldn't even tell you the last
flight I was on that had really bad turbulence, and
there's always bumps. Couldn't couldn't tell you. I mean, I
just thought, I'm sitting on that American Airlines flight today
and I'm thinking this living I am. And they even
had this little app or something on the TV you
could download, and I'm watching where we're flying and it's
(06:08):
like I can monitor the flight. I'm sitting there watching
a Netflix show. I want to pivot to this though,
because one of the things I downloaded was episodes three
and four of Dynasty. You know, off the Jeff Benedict book.
He's on my show in about two weeks. Episode four, John,
I don't know if you saw it is one of
(06:28):
the best episodes of a documentary sports documentary I've ever
seen in my life. The Randy moss arrival, the Spige
losing to the Giants in the Super Bowl. I mean
it was Robert Kraft's son said he walked into the
locker room and grown men were vomiting and bawling, And
(06:51):
you forget the two things so far through four episodes
that you forget how big that upset of Kurt Warner
in the rams was. They Yeah, we're offensively ahead of
their time. I mean they had a Niners feel like,
can anybody stop them to win that game? They, by
the way, it was fourteen three and a half, the
completely shut them down.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
They'd already won a Super Bowl a couple of years previously.
I mean, that team was pretty special, Hall of famers.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Everywhere, and then you forget how historic that eighteen and
oh team going for nineteen and oh. You know, as
I watched it, I was I thought if I was
interviewing Tom Brady and I said, Tom, take one play
out of your career, I guarantee you, he'd say the
David Tyree catch. And when I watched it, I'm like,
(07:39):
oh my god. Teddy Bruski's like, yeah, we've done that
to people. We did that to the Saint Louis Rams.
He goes, I know what they were feeling. They believe
now they were the better team.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
You know, I haven't seen I've seen the three episodes.
I watched three of them on Friday night. I think
we also forget and it really kind of puts into
context how big a balls Bill had when he made
that move. The guy who was one hundred million dollar
contract with one hundred million.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Dollars, oh yeah, Drew Bledsoe, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Number one overall pick. And this is where I think
football coaches they just have more juice than the other
coaches in basketball and definitely in baseball, because such more
of a management league when their gut tells them something.
I mean, we see it all the time in football,
right college, and pro to know that, Like, yeah, Drew
doesn't move around as well anymore, right, he's been hit
too much. And you watch the other thing. I'm watching
(08:27):
it with my girlfriend. She's like, God, these guys look
bigger back then. I'm like, yeah, Marie, these quarterbacks back
in the day were all six ' six. They were
all huge. When Tom and Drew are standing next to
each other, Caleb's coming out, he's barely six ' one.
These guys have him by five inches. I mean, Drew
Bledsoe is a strapping individual. That's the old school quarterback.
And you're watching when Drew runs and get hit by
(08:49):
moel Lewis, I'm thinking, like most quarterbacks now get out
of bounds, even Brock perties faster right there there, and
the difference in style. And You've been saying this forever
about Belichick. He was perfectly set up for that old
school football, right, and this is where Tom benefits. Obviously,
he took a lot in his control and was really good.
But we're gonna talk a lot about draft picks over
(09:10):
the next couple months. If you go to a team
that sucks you, unless you're an all time transcendent talent,
it's gonna be very, very difficult. Tom did get to
begin starting on a team full of really good defensive
players and clearly a really good coaching staff, and he'd
be the first to tell you, I think a lot
of these Patriot guys are kind of in a weird
way offended by everyone talking about Belichick because it almost
(09:32):
diminishes a little bit. Like what they had as a
group was pretty special, and you watch all these guys,
you're like, yeah, it was a pretty high level group
of individuals.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, it's very Omerita. It's very much secrets kept in
the family. That's why Mangenie I was told. Mangini called
Bill and said, Bill, I know what should do. Don't
tape the Jets.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Bill just said, whatever, I'm gonna tape the Jets. Bill
thought like, it's Omerita, it's the family, their secrets. You
got a job because of me and it burned him.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Speaking of folks, if you haven't watched them on Apple TV,
you should Dynasty. The book's great as well by Jeff Foot.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
The footage they have, it's just it's remarkable.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
But Ernie Adams, and it made me think, So Ernie
Adams is just fantastic. So he is Bills basically, and
I I mean he is, you know, a CFO kind
of like you could. I mean, there's nothing he's I
(10:34):
would say the valet, but he's his caddie and you're like, no, no,
he was often he was often his brains. And I
was thinking about this, and so years and years ago
when I worked at ESPN, George Bodenheimer was the CEO,
and George was really sharp. But when you're the CEO
(10:55):
of a major company, you need it to somebody that
can can call you out, somebody they can watch the
minutia you're doing all these meetings after meetings, I mean.
And George was as smart a guy that I've ever
had the honor or privilege to work under. And his
two was like John Skipper who became the president. And
I remember when Skipper got the job, he didn't have
(11:18):
a strong two and it really cost him. And I
can remember somebody in the company saying to me, John
doesn't have he doesn't have a John. And it's always
made me think about this, whether it's Andy Reid with
maybe it's a Spags, maybe there's somebody on the staff
is most great. I mean, let's be honest, Dave wantsd
(11:38):
at Jimmy Johnson. They just really trusted each other, Parcels
and Belichick, where Belichick's like, Bill, you gotta trust me
on this, and they battle on this stuff. Saban has
done a remarkable job in college to keep the turnstile
of coordinators coming in. But you know, and you could
say since Kirby Smart left, the defense hasn't been quite
as good. You know, he went to Georgia. But when
(12:00):
you watch this special Ernie Adams, I don't even know
there are moments and Damian Woody pointed this out. He
was considered a genius in the building. Bill often you
can just see him. He'd walk off the podium at
practice when Ernie retired about you know, and then years
later Dante's Karnakia. I think that's undervalued. We all talked Brady,
(12:24):
but it's Bill had people that he just he just
leaned on and they all in a short period of
time left and watched this for Ernie Adams, who, by
the way, is a funny guy. Like if there's anybody
you've ever wanted to sit and have a beer with
in football, it's Ernie Adams.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I heard when they were out of football. Well, Bill wasn't.
When they got fired in Cleveland and Bill went to
work for parcels, Ernie was out for a little bit.
That Ernie made Bill millions in the stock market because
Ernie was just, you know, so brilliant. He just started
working on finance till they get back in the league.
When Bill got the head coach in New England, so
he if you think about it as a head coach,
(13:01):
especially when you get of his level of fame and wealth.
The hierarchy in a building is a lot like the military,
where everyone kind of is intimidated by you, and even
when you're having a one on one conversation, there's a
level of I'm here here there. It's just a natural
hierarchy of the building where a coach needs a guy
that he can go in, close the door and have
(13:21):
a normal human one on one conversation where anything can
be said, and that was always what Bill had in Ernie, Right,
a guy that he had known since high school. Think
about that in that two thousand and one Super Bowl,
he was the guy, Ernie, what do you think we
should do with a minute thirty left? As John Maddens
kneel the ball, kneel the ball, and Ernie's like, I
think we're gas Bill, Let's put the pedal to the
(13:41):
medal and go for it. Right. But that's who he asked,
not Charlie Weiss, not Romeo Crenell, not these other coaches
that he's known for a long time as well. So
I've always thought this about Bill. Bill is a very
very good talent evaluator at coach Right, he found Josh McDaniels,
Brian Flores, Adam Peters, Jason Light, all these guys, Casario.
(14:02):
But eventually you run out of it. And that's what
it felt like these last couple of years, is he
just ran out of guys. Yeah, he could not replenish
the well and obviously the quarterback situation. But I you know,
I told you I think like a month ago, I
think Bill should do Amazon TV and show his personality
a little bit and just kind of rebrand himself a
(14:25):
little bit, because right now the NFL owners look at
him like this curmudgeon, negative guy, power hungary. They all
know he's a good coach. But you rebrand yourself a
little bit. A year later, you got three guys begging
you for their job, and let's face it, right now,
that just was not the case, which is crazy. He
couldn't get a head coaching job. He just couldn't know no.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
One wanted him. And I also think, so I think
about this all the time in life, that no is
a really powerful word that people don't use enough, and
sometimes missing on a job is the best thing ever.
There was one great job opening this year, Chargers, Yeah,
next year, and this is not even unlikely. Josh Allen,
Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott. You start going to Derek Carr.
(15:09):
There could be I wrote the oh, Trevor Lawrence. There
could be like five six high end quarterbacks who need coaches.
You can't win in this league. I mean, Belichick's proof.
You can't win big in this league without the quarterback.
So there's a lot of these jobs. I mean, Williams
absolutely so. In a weird way, Rabel and Bill built
(15:32):
out for a year you made a ton of money,
golf a little bit watch games. By the way, Mike McCarthy,
not at that level, ended up getting the cowboy gig.
It's a remarkable I mean, and I think about this
all the time. I mean, you're as a euro former scout.
You know this. There's an insecurity among even great coaches.
Once you're out, you've got to get back in. And
(15:55):
I've thought about this before, like even in my profession.
It's like, if you're talented, just sit back and watch
shows implode, watch managers get you know, act. Stuff opens
up really fast in big money businesses, Silicon Valley football media,
blah blah, whatever it is law. And I think coaches
(16:17):
sometimes feel like I've got to get a gig. But
I mean, if if the Charger's job wasn't open, the
only other job I would have left Michigan for if
I was Hardbaugh is Washington because they have like eighty
million dollars cap space, And I actually think if they
get Drake May, I think I think he's going to
be okay. I mean, what did you make this week
(16:38):
of everybody getting more cap space? Because the NFL came
out and announced the revenues were higher than expected. The
rams now have like forty three million, forty two million
dollars in cap space.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Called it. It doesn't feel like that long ago that
the NFL salary cap was like one hundred and fifty
million dollars, does it. I mean, this thing is, this
thing has gone up at rapids speed. Two hundred and
fifty five million dollars a lot of money. And if
you think about it, it's actually easier to set yourself
up for the next several years because what's two fifty
five in five years three forty, I mean it's going
to go up substantially. So signing some of these contracts,
(17:11):
I do think we need to look at them a
little bit differently. Right when you extend the guy the
way they can manipulate the money on the salary cap
to add up to two hundred and fifty five million dollars,
you need a lot of cap hits at twenty thirty
forty million dollars. So it definitely makes it a lot
more easy. Now here's the problem salary cap space in baseball.
If Sho heo Tani and and even though they don't
(17:32):
have a salary cap, but you know what I mean,
If a baseball player is hitting free agency. Show Heyo
Tani's hitting free agency. If Kevin Durant's a free agent,
he's hitting free agency. Well you just t Higgins franchised.
You're going to see that list of like the top
ten free agents. Franchise franchise, franchise, franchise. That's what makes
football a little unique is having a lot of cap
space in this sport. Most of the best quote unquote
(17:56):
free agents never hit the open market. And then to
get that next here B player, I think you pay
like a twenty five thirty percent premium. Look at last year,
the best tackle on the market, McGlinchey, you had to
give him almost sixty million guaranteed. The forty nine Ers
his third contract, Hardgrave, he gets eighty million dollars forty
million dollars guaranteed. So you pay an ultimately, it's like
(18:17):
you know, beachfront real estate, because not that many guys
hit it. So if it's a starter, a good starter,
a guy that you know is a plug and play starter,
you pay for it, right And even some of these
guys that are franchised, maybe they're quote unquote available through
a trade. It's like, oh, you know, we'd be open
to trading t Higgins, but we need your one in
the twenties, and then you have to pay him twenty
(18:38):
three million dollars a year. So it's if you want
to dabble in, that market is very, very expensive. It's
why to me, the Washingtons of the world, I would
just take a deep breath, kind of let things play out.
The Texans are a better example. Okay, you already see
you got some stuff. If I got to overpay a
guard and overpay a linebacker that I really like, who cares. Yeah,
I got seventy million dollars if I if I invest
(18:59):
thirty five and those two guys, I feel pretty good
about it. But I already know what I got. Like
with Washington and some of these teams, let's just try
to walk before we run. Let's just see how the
quarterback is because yeah, Drake may or Jayden Daniels, whoever
they end up taking. I mean, how often do we
see these guys be overwhelmed or whatever. Then all of
a sudden you got to kind of you want flexibility
as much as possible. To me, the Texans are a
(19:20):
good example. Like I'd be pretty aggressive here, Like could
I go get a T. Higgins. Could I make a
trade right and then pay a guy like I'd be
open to a lot of different options.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
You know. One of the things you're going to the combine.
One of the things that's great about the draft is
it really has you know, the NBA Draft is fun,
but there's two rounds and these guys coming at nineteen
and they go to bad teams. So and the hit
rate's pretty low because you don't have as much video.
It's hard. In the NBA NFL college draft you have
minimum three years of film. A lot of these guys
(19:56):
come from two or three major conferences. They're playing against
NFL guys, So misses, but there's a lot of hits
as well. You know. Now, I was thinking about one
of the things in the draft that I was reading
a story and I forget God. I want to give
credit to whoever did it. They went back and looked
at last year's draft and graded it, and again it's
(20:20):
not so Houston had the most successful draft. So when C. J.
Stroud comes in and crushes some of it is very explainable.
They hit like on five draft picks number two. I
know the Rams and the Seahawks were up there. The
Packers were at three, and I got to tell you something.
I said this, I like both the Packers' last two drafts.
(20:43):
Is I sometimes wonder about this, but by the way
the Jets and the Giants terrible. Is that I sometimes wonder?
And you worked in the building because Philadelphia, where you worked,
it's a wealthy franchise. There are a lot of money here.
Green Bay could argue over the last twenty five years
(21:03):
has done a better job than anybody in this league
drafting and developing and when you were in the league.
And my take is, is a lack of an owner helpful.
The guys run at it are just all football guys.
But the Packers, they went to last year's draft and
the receivers hit and the tight ends hit. And I
(21:23):
just when I look at Green Bay, I think, Okay,
They've had different gms, different coaches, They nail quarterbacks, great o' line,
they always always find receivers and tight ends when you
were in the league. Is it one of those classic
the millionaire next door that if you're on a school
teacher salary, you're just not going to waste as much money.
(21:45):
You're going to be smarter than a stockbroker, who's got
money to right? Are the Packers seen as frugal because
they don't have the game day revenue? But when I
saw that list, and again I apologize for not crediting
who it was, I saw it on the plane. It
was best draft. Last year Packers were a third and
I thought, God, when is the last bad draft the
(22:06):
Packers had.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I think a lot has to do with, you know,
a lot of cultures. When I get rid of everyone, right,
a GM and A and a coach, the owner gets
to hire everybody, and he's always the boss. He's always
hovering over everybody. It goes back to Ron Wolf and Holmgren.
Ron taught all these guys right from Ted Thompson. Gudakins
(22:27):
had worked there forever. So they've had the same culture
in terms of management since Ron Wolf showed up in
the early nineties. So the way they look at players,
they've always been obsessed with high weight speed. I don't
think it has to do as much with like pinchion
pennies and not being able to like, you know, you're
the Rays, they're the Yankee, so you have to outthink them.
I just think that they've taught and streamlined it from
(22:49):
generation to generation very very well. They have a like
a company culture there that I think has transcended general
managers from Ron Wolf to Ted Thompson and Gudakins, and
I think they've been pretty consistent. Back to what you're
saying with the draft of like they all know what
they're looking for because they've been looking for the same
thing now for thirty years. Helps a lot when you
have a quarterback, right, they have a quarterback and they
(23:12):
know how to surround the guy, and they've always done
an incredible job of surrounding the guy on offense. I
think the Ravens are a pretty good example of how
they transitioned from Ossni to Da Costa because the Costa
was his right hand man forever. Yes, So it's like
the point when you have the cohesion, like why are
the Chiefs so strong right now? Because Andy has Spags
who's never leaving, I mean, and who has goes back
(23:35):
for twenty years beating Belichick and Brady. It's very unique
to have that. Kyle or McVeigh get a good coordinator, Boom,
the guy's gone. They can't hold on to their defensive coordinator.
So I think having the cohesion the Packers is a
great place to work. I remember when we were there.
When I worked in the league, everyone was always kind
of envious of like cause it was like this chill vibe,
(23:56):
but they were winning big and it was just through
the Green Bay Packers. There was like the pressure we
had in Philadelphia, felt it every day when you went
in the building. They definitely don't have that. Yeah, I
think the Chiefs really have that going on right now,
but a lot has to do with winning. I just
think it's a very unique organization. But I do think
it gets back to the streamline vision from generation to generation,
(24:17):
and they've all crossed, you know, like John Schneider hires
Mike McDonald. They don't know each other. They're hoping this
chemistry works because he's good coach with the Ravens, and
you know he knows, but it's like you're kind of
keeping your fingers crossed. You look at Harball goes to
the Chargers. Who do they hire as his general manager?
A guy he knows, A guy he's comfortable with from Baltimore.
(24:40):
So you're like, yeah, it's probably gonna work out. He
knows John there, it's all in the family that matters,
Like Shanahan's had a lot of success with people he knows.
He's worked with Robert Solid he coached, Tamiko Ryans, Brian Greasy,
he worked with when he was young in Tampa's dad
knows him. We're all comfortable with people we know, right,
who do you hire the volume like to run your
(25:00):
management people that you're comfortable people with, You know, it helps.
Now they have to be talented, but like when you're
all on the same page, it's a lot easier to operate.
And I think for thirty plus years the packers have
just had a lot of cohesion. Not a lot of
people leave their coaches, do you know, But there their scouts.
I don't know if they pay top notch relative to
the NFL executives, but I sure know when they're winning
(25:22):
things are having success, people like working there.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, you can also buy a hell of a house
in Milwaukee, live like a king four hundred and ninety
thousand dollars. You know, It's it's just it was when
I saw the list, it was like, God, Green Bay
knows what they're doing and to your point, quarterbacks kind
of make it all work. You can, I mean, listen
Brett Veach in Kansas City's had some misses. You forget
sky Moore, you forget them really quickly. Malmes makes you
(25:48):
forget shit really quickly.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Well, it's like someone told me with the Jets a
couple of years ago. They're like they had all those
picks in the top whatever, the first couple of rounds
for two straight years, we could go seven of eight.
They all could be Pro bowlers. If Zach's a whiff,
were in trouble, we'd go one of eight. If Zach's
a hit. Contract extensions, Well what happened? They went seven eight,
Maybe not seven eight, but five or six of eight.
(26:11):
And Zach's the problem and they got issues that quarterback.
I mean, if Jordan Love and we're all gonna pencil
him in, I do think there's a difference of kind
of They got to fly him too the radar a
little bit. This year. They started slow, then they came on.
Everyone next year is gonna be looking at them like
double digit wins playoff team. It is a different pressure.
That's why I give a lot of credit to the Lions.
Everyone took the Lions seriously this year coming in and
(26:34):
they handled it well like it's it's a it's another.
Now Lafleur has success. Now he's been a part of
those type teams with Aaron, so he's I feel comfortable
with it. But sustaining high level play year in year out,
that's hard. So you know there's gonna be a lot
of tangible pressure on Jordan Love next year.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
So it's it's interesting when I this is kind of
a vague topic, but I know I've always kind of
measured how often I talk football. I don't work at
the NFL network, nor do I want to. I like
the NBA. I like, you know, an October September baseball series.
I like the World Cup, a good UFC fight, I
like March Madness. I could never just talk football, and
(27:14):
I've always kept the number around sixty five percent of
the show. But I was talking to a TV exec.
I had a meeting about ten twelve days ago with
a really smart guy, and we were talking about the
Big Ten, and he said, those ratings are going to
go up fifteen to twenty percent. And I had given
college football about an eight year break a hiatus on
(27:37):
my show because it got very regional and very southern.
And I'm not anti SEC, but if it was all it.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Was Alabama, Georgia every in Clemson every year for seven
straight years.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, and so it just like listen, once baseball became
very local. Nobody in Minnesota is going to watch the Mariners.
Nobody in Seattle gives a rip about Tampa Bay. Yet
a Seahawk fan would watch the Buccaneer in Baker Mayfield play.
So once baseball about ten twelve years ago, I felt
it really got local. I just didn't talk about it.
College basketball is a turnstile now between the transfer portal
(28:10):
one and done. You can't name the starters on Duke,
but it is sort of interesting. I was talking to
this executive about the growth of college football. He goes,
you're not going to believe the numbers are going to explode.
And me started talking about the Big Ten schedule and
he's like, you're gonna get Washington, Oregon or Washington, Michigan,
Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State, USC You're gonna have three
and four games in a row all day. And it
(28:33):
did make me think as I was off this week,
and I you know, I kind of shut it down.
When I'm off, I don't watch sports. I just leave
and there was nothing going on anyway. I'm watching the
Warriors Nuggets today.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Crappy year.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
But the biggest story in baseball last week as the
season starts uniforms. You know, they're kind of sheer see through.
Biggest story in the NBA was how bad the All
Star Game was. The biggest story in college basketball was
storming the court. Yet, the NFL is the sport we
talk about because we watch the games. Listen, if you're
a fan, listen to what we talk about when people, sportscasters,
(29:07):
podcasters talk football. We actually talk about strategy in the
games that the NFL. With the growth of college football,
which by the way, between the draft and the combine,
they're really starting to go hand in hand. College basketball
in the NBA are the Grand Canyon. They have nothing
in common. Most of the great players don't even want
to play in college basketball college baseball, but Major League baseball,
(29:29):
college hockey, they don't connect. You know, college soccer and
the MLS they don't connect. College football connects with the
NFL more and more. And I was sitting there this
week watching people talk about sports, and I thought, am
I going to do an eighty percent football show? Based
(29:49):
on the audience. As I've said, the audience drives the
show what they want. I follow ratings and I'm sitting
there thinking, I don't want to work at the NFL network.
But John, between legalized gambling, people now stick through bad games.
This massive Big Ten SCC explosion, where now the two
(30:09):
conferences are going to have all the games we watch,
the ratings are going to skyrocket the twelve team playoff.
I was sitting there this week and I thought, Jesus,
you're talking about see through pants in baseball? Is that
amongst your friends when you go golf, does anybody talk
about anything other?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Football is the other thing that it comes up consistently.
Even and I know a couple of guys and play
golf with some former Major League Baseball players. They talk football.
I mean the Bill's fan, a Packer fan. That's all
they want to talk about. And during the fall, I
think college football, like you said, think about next year Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Georgia, Texas, LSU,
(30:51):
the SEC and the Big Ten get it's gonna feel
like NFL light. I think the NFL. I've said this forever.
I don't know if it's gonna last forever my entire life.
Like I'm almost forty does that forty years dominating When
I was growing up. Baseball was huge the nineties with
the Yankees basketball with Michael Jordan. But for the foreseeable future,
(31:12):
I don't see how that gap. I'm the All Star Game,
guys actively talk like why would we even try to participate?
Anthony Rendon, who's making two hundred and forty five million
dollars to that story, He's like, yeah, baseball is not
even a priority. It's like, well, I think for two
hundred and fifty million dollars, probably probably don't want to
say that, buddy. You know, it's like, can you imagine
an NFL play? I think the relatability sometimes with you
(31:35):
and I don't even blame these guys cause you're getting
two hundred fifty million dollars guaranteed. Some of these basketball
players I played. I played golf last week during the
All Star break with a guy that calls NBA games,
and he was saying, one problem is, and he's on
a pretty high level team, but he just sees it
around the league, is it's always like you have to
max everybody out. Well, you can't lose them. Well, is
the guy a max player? Like we had the max Zion,
(31:58):
Did you or I mean, did you have to? Because
in the NFL you don't have to, and you would not,
And so everyone's making all this money. If I don't
care who you are, if you're twenty five years old
and you're basically guaranteed to get an astronomical amount of money,
you're gonna be jaded in the way you think about everything.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, we're in football.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
It still has this old school meritocracy that if you
do not produce within two years. I've seen it forever.
It's why when I used to go to Niners camp
a lot like I'm not gonna make it too big
a deal about a third or fourth round pick, because
every year I've seen that third fourth round pick by
the time training camp ends, the undrafted free agents beating
him out and might even beat out the starter, And
all of a sudden, two undrafted free agents are starting.
(32:36):
Guys are coming from everywhere, every team, I don't care
if you're a playoff team or a shitty team, and
they're It's kind of like relates to our life. You
gotta produce whatever you do. You either generate revenue, get
your job done, or you gotta get replaced. Where I
think in basketball and baseball, it's kind of like scholarship
once you get paid, Like, I can't what am I
gonna do with you? Even in football, you're gonna see
(32:58):
so many names this week. You're like, got it. I
thought that guy was under a long term contract. They're like, yeah,
we're thinking about cutting him if you won't take a
pay cut, well, thinking about trading him. So basically every guy,
I mean, we could probably name thirty guys like untouchable
in the NFL. A lot of them are quarterbacks and
then a lot of like high level Trent Williams, Travis Kelce,
like those type guys. But basically every other name you
(33:20):
go half the Pro Bowl roster, you're like, yeah, yeah,
we could move on from that guy.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And I think basketball and baseball used to have an
element of that. And definitely their guys were wired. Like
working in like local television in the Bay Area and
meeting a lot of guys that played in the eighties
and nineties, they had that attitude in baseball and basketball,
I can be replaced, I could be cut. They were
very relatable individuals. It's why Charles Barkley is like one
of the biggest TV stars of all time. He's relatable.
(33:47):
I think it's much more difficult for the modern guy
in that sport to be relatable because you're making one
hundred million dollars guaranteed whether you're good or bad. No
one has a problem when you're good getting paid. But
he's like, is this guy, even Jordan Poole's making one
hundred and thirty million dollars, he's like the worst in
the NBA.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah. Well, and I've talked to a handful of execs
and I've brought this up before. They laugh at the
NBA structure. They're like, what a joke they make fun
NFL guys. I remember having this conversation a couple of
years ago when the CTE thing came down, and a
lot of these Northeast media types who don't understand the
passion for football in the Midwest or college football, they're like,
(34:24):
it's the end of the NFL. Like you've been in
the Northeast way too long, where baseball still talked about
on sports radio a lot. I'm like, football's not going anywhere.
It's way too big to fail. There's way too much money,
and they've cleaned it up that nobody hits at practice
anymore once the season starts. By the way, you get
to the Super Bowl, usually the teams that get to
(34:44):
the Super Bowl are missing maybe one starter. Like everybody's
got the I mean, guys are healthy.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Miners and Chiefs were healthy.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, so there's a you know the Chiefs a few
years ago missing their tackles, and it was like, yeah,
that's what happens. But one of the things the structure
of the NFL is the structure of most of our lives.
You're tradeable, cuttable, fireable. And I never understand fans like
this is like we're fans. I look at fans and
(35:12):
I just think you guys are in your mind this idea.
I want my guy to get the bag.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Fuck that.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I don't want many players to get the bag because
it limits my flexibility. I am always rooting for the
team to sign a reasonable contract so it gives the
team flexibility. I mean this idea like Dack's got a
three hundred million dollars net worth after his next contract,
He's fine, but you're you're not fine if you overpay players.
(35:40):
But it is interesting. The NFL is the only sport
and I will say the MLS and hockey are the closest.
NBA Baseball are a mess that it's like you just.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I turned to a former hockey guy that played fifteen years.
I didn't know who he was, but we started BS
and he was one of the most relatable individuals. I
had to google him after God, this guy played. They
have a relatability to the way they talk and the
way they interact. They're actually I'm like, this guy could
have talked to anyone in here and could have gotten along.
It was very impressive.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, I met a guy at a bar in Naples
one time. NHL guy was a Bruin. I didn't know.
I'm google them same. But I also think they have
a very tight cap and stars get paid. Everybody else
makes a good living, not an insane living. And I'm
not anti I always said this. I'm not anti players
making money. I'm not anti mobility. But in any business,
(36:32):
if you're paying B and C employees a money, you're
going to have a problem. And I do think and again,
I love NBA playoff basketball, I really do. It's one
of my favorite things. But I NFL guys they look executives, owners,
they look at the NBA and baseball and they just
laugh at their structure.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Well, I think one power of the NFL, like you
said about a random fan will watch not his team
and know their players. I also think because the power listen,
we can argue over the franchise tag, whether it's fair
or not. It's one of the healthiest things for the
business by a mile, because when Kevin Durant or Aaron
Judge or Shoheo Tani when they hit free agency, there
(37:13):
is no mechanism to keep them, and in those leagues,
guys turn over a lot, which is not great for
the league. If I'm the Kansa Chiefs, I would imagine
bottom ten market in the NFL. If I want to
keep Patrick Mahomes his entire career, or the Packers with
Rogers Afar, I can until I choose to get rid
of them, and that's healthy for my organization for the league.
The Chiefs were just in a Super Bowl and they're
(37:35):
easily now I would say one of the most recognizable
brands in the NFL because of Patrick, and that's not
really possible. Like in the NBA, if the Nuggets make
the NBA Finals, it's not great. They would much rather
have Steph Curry or Lebron in the NBA Finals. We're
in the NFL. It helps to have the Niners there,
But if it had been the Lions, maybe it's not
one hundred and twenty What is one hundred and fifteen
(37:56):
million people still watch the enter It doesn't impact. And
that's where I think the NFL has dwarfed everyone that
they're no longer dependent on markets. The brands. Yeah, their
brands changed by the player, by the quarterback. Who you know,
if Josh Allen's healthy is going to be on the
bill for fifteen years and it's all you didn't like that?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah, if you go back ten years, the CTE check
whenever it was. It was remarkable to listen to so
many sports writers. It was like, guys, your tone deaf.
Don't you have never lived in the South. You don't
get Texas. It was a lot of Northeast sports writers.
It was a lot of this high minded Remember Sports
Illustrated started out covering fencing, had to be like persuaded
(38:34):
to cover football. There is this sort of high minded
view of you know, college football and football, and it's like, guys,
it's it's the best run sport.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
There was a great moment in the Dynasty series with
Roger Goodell. Remember when they got rid of the tapes
put a hammer to him, got rid of the Spygate tapes. Yeah,
and there was this media guy, why'd you get rid
of the tape? And he said, well, because the punishment
had been handed out. Well, but what about and he said, no,
the punishment had been handed out, there was no need
(39:09):
for the tapes. Well, I mean why Goodell said, tapes
get out? He goes, like these got out? He goes,
we destroyed them, and it shut the reporter up. But
the reporter he wanted so badly. Goodell got hammered for
that that he destroyed the tapes. And the point was
there was no value in those tapes once the spines
(39:32):
and suspensions were handed out. Belichick was fine half a
million dollars at the time anytime, a lot of money.
But at the time he wasn't making what he's making now.
And so Goodell gets a lot of crap because I
think by and large, the media doesn't like power. But
like Dana White and Goodell, i'd argue are the two
best commissioner CEOs of their sport. They're both Dana's highly
(39:56):
defiant and Goodell. Think about how big that industry is.
What's the last look at how leagues have dealt with
societal changes, cultural changes, strikes. I've always thought Goodell, mostly
because Goodell doesn't pander to the media. I've had dinner
(40:19):
with him and drinks. You can ask Roger anything. He
literally I asked him on the air one time he
came on my show and I said, Roger, I love
your sport. I don't know what it catches. My friends
don't know what it catches. He acknowledged live on the ear.
He goes, it's Colin. It's a problem. That year they
changed it in the Super Bowl Eagles. Remember in that
(40:40):
Super Bowl the ball was juggled and they allowed it.
What commissioner would have done that? I think when I
watched The Dynasty, it was another reminder that the NFL
is incredibly well run and Goodell really has his shit
buttoned up.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
How about the part when Robert Craft bought the Patriots
that he bought the surrounding area because he knew the
value in that that. No, I was like, what a genius.
Can you imagine the level of business savviness that it
takes to even because he's thinking that before he even
has the money and the level of no wonder, he's
(41:22):
one of the better owners in the NFL. No wonder
his you know, he's being talked about like he is
to be able to make a move like that.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, So for people wondering the stadium wasn't great, but.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I think historically it was like the worst in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
One I thought, yeah, it was. In fact, they threatened
to go to Hertford at one point, and so he
bought the Craft, bought the he bought the land around
the stadium. So if you bought the stadium, he was
gonna you know, he would be making all the money
around it with shops and restaurants. No. I think I
think what I appreciated about all that is that, you know,
(41:59):
Kraft was a Patriot fan. That's all he was. He
was a Patriot fan. Yeah, and all these owners when
they buy the team. When Jerry Jones bought the team,
Jimmy Johnson told me, for the first year, financially, Jerry
was like going to card dealers and try to get ads.
Like He's like, we do it. We weren't the Cowboys.
It's like you had to overpay Craft. By the way,
the first couple of years, they were not rolling.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
In it, no one thing. And I said this on
the podcast last week. You might not have seen because
you were vacationing, but Drod Mayo, they clearly have a
huge push from the Patriots to be like, we love
the media. Now you guys who are our friends, our
assistant coaches, know your importance. And I don't even And
I've heard good things. He's an impressive guy. I don't
(42:42):
even necessarily blame him for saying that because it's clearly
coming from Jonathan and Robert. I think they are too obsessed, Like, yeah,
Bill could be an asshole who cares no one the
media does, has no pull in the narrative. Once you
start playing games, if you win, it doesn't matter how
he is. If you lose, it doesn't none of it matters.
(43:03):
He's only gonna be So yeah, they could write great
articles for the next six months. The moment he starts
zero and four and Jade Daniels has throwing seven interceptions
in one touchdown, you got a problem on your hands.
No matter how much they like the guy, they will
turn on you every time. So I understand the crafts.
They just want some. They want more smiles. It's all bullshit.
(43:23):
The reason Belichick got run out of time he started
losing it wasn't because his press conferences. And I just
think it's a human you know, it's natural reaction to
want to pivot off what you just had. In relationships
with coaches, we see it all the time. The Craft
parcels a hole Pete nice guy, Belichick like parcels now,
(43:44):
jirod Mao like a Pete Carroll happy. And I think
they're obsessed with the wrong thing right now in New England,
and I do wonder if they got something coming their way,
this is gonna be a lot more difficult than they realize.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
You know, I've had people ask me this before, why
the athletes come on your show, And I think, well,
I got a bigger each And I'm not Mike Wallace.
I can ask a tough question. But by and large,
most athletes have secondary incomes or you know, projects or charities,
and we always mention them. But I think the reality
(44:22):
of athletes and sports is they largely don't need the media.
That's why I've always appreciated let's pivot to the NBA here,
It's why I've always appreciated Lebron James. It doesn't matter
if it's a local, regional, telecaster, national. Lebron always stops
to talk to the press always. Michael did this too.
(44:42):
Jordan was great, Kobe was really good at this stuff.
Some guys aren't. But you know, as Lebron season winds down,
I think the Lakers have championship length. Lebron ad I
don't think their championship team. I think Boston and Denver
just feel like better than everybody. But I do want
to talk about the Warriors for second, because generally, speaking
as I was, you know, they've gone on a bit
(45:03):
of a heater. I think they've won eight of ten,
played really really well. They put Clay Thompson on the bench,
and they brought this rookie and who they drafted to
be the next Clay, the Pods kid, Brandon Podds like
and he is frankly, he's got I mean even during
draft night, you're like, he kind of plays like Clay.
He's got an edge to him. He's a little salty,
and then cominga now has become like a pretty consistently
(45:24):
good performer. Wiggins is playing a little better now. Generally,
you know, Shaq and Kobe breaks up. The Heatles break
up Michael Jordan. You can get really bad, really fast.
But I'm sitting watching I'm sitting watching the Warriors over
the last two weeks, and I'm like, okay, that's the
(45:45):
last dynasty and I'm like, now Cominga's Cominga's a real player,
and Clay's off the bench. Clay's, by the way, he
had a heater playing the Nuggets. Clay off the bench
is a totally different expectation than Clay starting. And I'm like,
I know they have a rookie, but I watch them
and I'm like, okay, they don't match up well with Denver.
(46:07):
Almost nobody does. Lakers do a little because Ad can
defend Jokich, but you know the Bay Area very well.
Are we gonna have because it doesn't work this way.
When dynasty's end, they go into the freaking tank. Durant left,
they want another one. Then they step back and I
watched them in the last two weeks and I'm like,
you know what, Steph's still a top five six player,
(46:29):
Draymond's still a catalyst, offensively excellent defensive player, Clay off
the bench, two young guys that can actually score pods
can score, Coaminga can score. Kurzys Wiggins has played much better.
I gotta tell you, John the West outside of Denver,
everybody's got an issue. Like everybody.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I think one thing the Warriors have is they're a throwback.
I mean, these guys have played together forever. I mean
you watch the Phoenix Suns. They've been together for ten minutes. Yeah,
how can you have any faith in most of these
teams beside Denver that they've been put together over the
last eighteen months. The Warriors are much more like a
nineties or eighties teams where the group has played together forever.
(47:11):
How about Steve kurz contract right, Like he's not in
it for the rest of his life, but as long
as step is there and Draymond is there and now
they have some young players, So yeah, I wouldn't want
any part of these guys in a big length I
mean last year the Lakers annihilated him in that series
length play and Clay was terrible. So to me, if
Clay is the day and age of fourteen through eighteen,
(47:35):
is gone right ace. But if he is just a
solid I can trust six out of the seven games
to be in the high teens in one of those
games he gets.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
It's like when westbrookoff the bench for the Clippers is
a mister energy.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, I thought, Draymond said on his podcast. He's like,
I'm telling you we can compete for a championship this year.
Like they're cohesion their group. They got Chris Paul coming back,
Cary Peyton's healthy now, and Steph is one of the
most remarkable players in the history of sports and still
like when he's going, is one of the best players
in the NBA. The key to them, though, is Draymond,
who's playing really well in Clay because Steph last year,
(48:12):
like what else do you want to do against the Lakers?
It was everybody else. So they just need Clay to
meet Clay. If he can be like a B for
them and then at moments a B plus a minus
against good teams in the first or second round, then yeah,
hell yeah they could make a run. Yeah you know it,
Steve Kirk about you see their value when Steph showed up,
(48:33):
it was like three hundred and twenty five million dollars.
That's what lake A bought the team for. Now. I
don't think they would sell for this because so much
is dependent on Steph who's thirty six, thirty seven years old.
Ford valued them at over eight billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Oh, I think. So the arena is the arena.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
It's a cash cow. It's one of the only cash cows. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And also that they own, so that's that's a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yeah, I think that's a huge component to it. It's interesting.
So I covered Steve Kirk a couple years in Portland,
and that team also had the governor of Oregon, like
Chris Dudley. So it was a team that had like
problem guys and then two of the smart guys like mayors,
and it just was a fast bonus. Was a fascinating
(49:14):
player to cover Damien's Damon Stodemeyer Pippen. But Kerr's remarkable.
So Kerr is part of the greatest NBA team ever
and hit some of the biggest shots. He's now one
of the best coaches. He's largely considered sort of it's
got kind of a Phil Jackson field where there's a psychology,
a psychological impact, an expertise beyond just x's no's. So
(49:39):
he's on the greatest team created, one of the best
coaches of all time. As a general manager. It's first
of all, it's it's impossible. This list league is. If
you don't have great players, you know you're not a
great GM. He was. He was clearly capable. He was
a tremendous broadcaster. I mean I thought he was. I
(49:59):
think he's one of the best analysts in any sport.
I thought Kerr was a riot. He was quick, he
was nimble, he was funny player, broadcaster, coach like Kerr.
In my lifetime, Phil played marginal player, Phil coach, great GM,
disaster broadcaster. No like Steve, Kerr has moved into an area.
(50:25):
I mean, I don't know what the compass broadcaster, coach, player.
He is one of the most significant people in league history.
I think just people have taken him for granted because
he looks so young. People forget that he's an older guy.
Now he's moving into a pat riley stage where I'm like,
this is an all time top five guy in league history.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
And it wasn't he part. I mean, he was one
of the key guys in some of those great teams
at Arizona. I mean, he's been basketball royalty for since
the moment he was eighteen nineteen years old. I think
we say this a lot of times in scouting, like
this guy could do whatever he wants, could run a bank,
could start his own company, could be a football player.
And it's usually with famous you know, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady,
Drew Brees usually fall under that. I think we look
(51:10):
at Steve a little different because he was a role player,
but like that was really the the like his lowest
level of accomplishment in terms of his ability right everything
else he's been Michael Jordan at like, he's clearly one
of the best coaches in the NBA's he's now the
highest paid guy. He was, he was an elite, he
was an all time great shooter. He just wasn't very big.
(51:31):
He just had physical limitations. But Michael trusted him. I
mean the last dance is like, Steve, I'm coming to you, right,
trust him that way. Phil swore by him. Phil begged
him to take the next job under The media loves
to call Phil the village idiot, but for a long
time in my life, Phil was the cream of the crop.
And Joe lacub who was an old school kind of
just like George Steinbrenner killer, i mean, refuses like has
(51:54):
gone all in on this guy now for a decade.
So he went there, and Steph Curry basically went to
the Warriors like I'm not playing for anybody else. So
one of the greatest players in the history of the
sport basically looked at management like you better figure this out.
He told Marcus Thompson Athletic like I wanted Steve to
stay and put our contracts together. That's the guy like
Michael Jordan's going, you know, on Kobe, the way they
(52:15):
talked about Phil that's the way they talk about Steve Kerr.
So I think he's just one of those rare guys.
He could have been a politician, he could have been
an executive. He was, but in any other industry, obviously,
he's just a basketball addict. And I think basketball got
lucky that how many guys of his level would have
because the last thing that came was coaching. He did
(52:36):
everything else right, He broadcasting, general manager, business stuff. It's
like I really want to coach. It's usually the other
way around. The guy coaches first kind of gets burned
out and does all the other stuff. He actually did
the hardest thing last. Now he got lucky. Lucky. He's
the wrong word. He made the right decision because he
had options. Instead of going to the Knicks, he went
to the Warriors, and obviously it changed the trajectory of
(52:59):
his basketball life. But when you just think like basketball
Hall of Famers, he's got three rings with the Bulls,
he's got two rings with the Spurs. He's got four
rings with the Warriors. And they've lost a couple of finals. Right,
how many finals the guy have been to? Probably like fifteen.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
The we'll wrap it up here, we've been we've been
going fifty minutes. We'll wrap it up. So I go.
My wife and I John bought a place in Rhode
Island because I went there for ten years when I
worked at the other place, and we vacation took our
kids there. So we sold our house in la in
like July and we bought a place in August next
(53:38):
to a beach in Rhode Island. So it's always been
one of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
It showed me the picks of the party. It looked good.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Yeah, it's nice, and that's that's where I'll retire in
the summer and fall in about twelve years, ten twelve
years whatever. And so Friday night we go out with
friends and We come home at nine thirty and we
pull into the driveway, my wife and I, and there's
(54:04):
a car parked in my driveway. Now gotta remember this
is a summer, summer town. There's nobody's lights you're on
except ours. So I'm like, what's going on? So I
pull in behind the car and I walk up to
it with my phone. You know, I don't know what's
going on about lights in the house. Is somebody robbing
my house? So I go up there and I asked
(54:27):
this young girl. She rolls her window down and her
dog starts barking. I said, can I ask why you're here?
And she says, she pauses, Well, I uh yeah. I
was just wondering if your house is for sale. And
I'm like, oh, I'm getting robbed. It's nine thirty, there's
no for sale sign. I'm getting robbed. Her boyfriend's in
(54:49):
the house. So I called nine one one, given the address. Well,
the Westerly Rhode Island Police fantastic, like three dudes, three cars.
Wasn't a lot of action, And apparently they came flying
down the street. And we're kind of on a point
so it's not easy to get to so and they
were great guys. I mean, they were just total pros.
(55:11):
It really made me feel good about this town. I'm like,
these guys really are buttoned up. They were young, fit.
Look you're right in the eye. They were to take
names on the guys. Yeah, they weren't effing around. And
I was in the house.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
What's that was someone in the house.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Well, so the guy goes there cars running. First of all,
shouldn't be here cars running, And I said, there's no
lights on. So my takeaway was, either she thinks because
Taylor Swift lives ten houses away, I said, much bigger
than my house. Obviously, I said, does she think this
is Taylor Swift's house is a mental health issue? So
(55:49):
they talked to her and it was she was very confused,
you know, made certain claims that didn't make any sense.
So then you feel sympathy. You're like, okay, Then I
had to Then the cops would the house, three of them,
you know, they were ready to go. And then I
followed in and in this house is one hundred years old.
My basement has ten doors, I mean it's it's a
(56:10):
maze of doors. And we've been fixing it up for
five six months. So and so I tried to eat.
I tried to email the Westwardly police the next day.
It was so damn hard to find an email. I
just was going to email a sergeant and say, hey,
your guys are great. You got good dudes there, man,
they were total pros. But you know, it's so I
(56:32):
guess my point is when we discovered that Taylor Swift
was ten houses away, I was like, that doesn't hurt
property value now.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
I was like, do you think she was looking for
Taylor Swift or she's just kind of off on her eye?
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I just said, I because there's been stories of multiple
people like being around the property. I mean, Taylor Swift's
the biggest star in the world, the biggest star, beautiful, talented.
So it really did make me think, oh my god,
because this this young lady had no idea who I was.
I mean, she didn't care, But my god, I got
(57:08):
my wife in the car. I'm here to protect my wife,
like right, like, I'm go out of the car. I
got the phone. I'm like, you know, but so that's
want to hear.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Your thoughts on Baker Mayfield's next contract.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Nah, wasn't really interested in the combine breakdown, not so Anyway,
the point was I had a great week off. I
love where I went. It's unbelievable, but there was a
little drama there. And also that I love Rhode Island.
But Rhode Island's got a neat unique history, very unique
history that you know. Buddy Seance was a mayor of Providence.
(57:41):
Providence Federal Hill, it's where the mob bumb out. So
you know, Rhode Island's the wild wild West in government.
I almost I have a wine store business in Connecticut
with my friend Brian. You know, we thought about moving
into Rhode Island and it was like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
No thanks, you gotta pay. I'm on twenty percent off
the top just to operate.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
Oh John, you don't know the half of it. Twenty percent.
So and by the way, I love Rhode Island because
of its history. It's so unique. It's a little wild
wild West. They do their own thing. But earlier that night,
the place I was at I went and I it
was a very interesting place. I won't give the name out,
(58:24):
but I asked the people that took me there, I'm like,
they got thirty people in this area. There's twelve people
in the restaurant. How the hell do they fund it.
My friend goes, oh, yeah, it's run by the mob,
and I'm like, so between I went to a place
run by the mob. I mean they had like thirty
people and I'm like, there's eight people having dinner. This
(58:46):
doesn't make any sense. I mean it was just and
then between that and the young lady who I think
thought I was Taylor Swift, my Friday was it was full.
It was full.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
It was a lot of John Gottie call on Coward
and Taylor Swift on the same street.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Crazy ass Friday for me. Glad I'm home in quiet
Los Angeles. John Middlcoff enjoy the combine, Buddy.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
I will take it easy.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment, rate and review.
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Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right, off a week vacation. Nice to be back
in the saddle. Flew cross country. Just landed about an
hour ago. John Middlecoff, former NFL scout, going to the
NFL Combine here this week. Also three and out his
podcast Go Low as his golf podcast. Yeah, so I
(01:52):
got a first of all, I usually flight Delta. I
flew American Airlines back. I told my wife that's the
best meal I've ever had in a flight in my life.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Would you eat?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Is incredible? So they start with fresh olives, you know,
heated almonds, pistachios, and then they go into this peach salad,
and then they have ahi tuna, and then they go
into tortilla soup, and then they go into green beans,
grain bread, olive oil, piece of chicken with like a
(02:27):
salce on it. That's what I chose and then I
waited about an hour and a half, took about a
half hour and anup, woke up and had like this
ginger and vanilla ice cream dessert. I told my wife,
I'm like that some thing's being experimented, like either profits
are through the roof of American Airlines, So tip of
the calf to American Airlines. I'm like, honey, I ate
(02:49):
better than you. And I was at thirty three thousand feet.
I can't help you.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
People complaining about flies a lot, and listen, I don't.
Everyone's had a bad experience here and there. But I
think for the most part, I mean, if you're not
flying Spirit Airlines, it's pretty darn good. Yeah, I mean
it's pretty darn good what we have in twenty twenty four,
especially in this country, if you live in major airports,
the ability to get around it can't be ever been
as easy as it is right now.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah. And I you know, one of the things years
ago I started doing well, I told my wife, just
we'll fly first class this point forward. Let's just do it.
They had a pod, so I watched, you know, I
downloaded a couple of Netflix and Apple TV shows. I downloaded,
you know, four or five episodes of stuff. All of
it was really really good. But I you know, I
think sometimes like I've been on planes. I've had three
(03:39):
or four people on planes that were crazy, like disruptive,
by and large, you know, most people just sit down quiet,
really good people. I've said this for years. I've been
a Delta flyer forever, forever. I think what our industry does,
commercial aviation, for how many people are at airports. And
(04:02):
for the record, I don't care what you think about
the economy. It can't be that bad because every flight
I've been on for six years is packed. And I
know what I'm paying for these seats, and they ain't
giving them away. There's no discounts here. My flight today, packed,
flight out packed. I don't I'm not a guy that
(04:23):
loves private, especially in the winter. I'm not gonna fly it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
If I can get a first class seat on a
three and a half hour flight, there's no need for
me to go private. I don't care. Most of the
flights are on time. Now you're taking off at Lagordia
at five point thirty on a Friday night, no shit,
you're gonna sit on the tarmac for a while. But
I just think I think sometimes in America we forget
how good our grocery stores are, Like we forget how
(04:50):
good an efficient our country is. I went to London
about six seven years ago, went to Wimbledon maybe eight
years ago. My hotel didn't have air conditioning, a high
end hotel, and the toilets were inconsistent. And I'm like, man,
if you went to a Marriotte, you'd go to complain
to management. In this country, I think sometimes we just
(05:11):
complained to complain.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I know multiple people, one that flies for United, one
that flies for American. They both flew fighter jets in
the Air Force. How does it get any better than that?
That guy's overqualified to fly us around the country. That's
like having Trent Williams as my personal security guard. I mean,
it doesn't get any better than that, right, And that's
(05:34):
who a lot of these pilots are. They served in
the military, flying a lot more expensive, a lot more
difficult aircrafts. And those are the guys that fly us
around for forty years from basically their age thirty till
when they retire.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah. I mean I couldn't even tell you the last
flight I was on that had really bad turbulence, and
there's always bumps. Couldn't couldn't tell you. I mean, I
just thought, I'm sitting on that American Airlines flight today
and I'm thinking this living I am. And they even
had this little app or something on the TV you
could download, and I'm watching where we're flying and it's
(06:08):
like I can monitor the flight. I'm sitting there watching
a Netflix show. I want to pivot to this though,
because one of the things I downloaded was episodes three
and four of Dynasty. You know, off the Jeff Benedict book.
He's on my show in about two weeks. Episode four, John,
I don't know if you saw it is one of
(06:28):
the best episodes of a documentary sports documentary I've ever
seen in my life. The Randy moss arrival, the Spige
losing to the Giants in the Super Bowl. I mean
it was Robert Kraft's son said he walked into the
locker room and grown men were vomiting and bawling, And
(06:51):
you forget the two things so far through four episodes
that you forget how big that upset of Kurt Warner
in the rams was. They Yeah, we're offensively ahead of
their time. I mean they had a Niners feel like,
can anybody stop them to win that game? They, by
the way, it was fourteen three and a half, the
completely shut them down.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
They'd already won a Super Bowl a couple of years previously.
I mean, that team was pretty special, Hall of famers.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Everywhere, and then you forget how historic that eighteen and
oh team going for nineteen and oh. You know, as
I watched it, I was I thought if I was
interviewing Tom Brady and I said, Tom, take one play
out of your career, I guarantee you, he'd say the
David Tyree catch. And when I watched it, I'm like,
(07:39):
oh my god. Teddy Bruski's like, yeah, we've done that
to people. We did that to the Saint Louis Rams.
He goes, I know what they were feeling. They believe
now they were the better team.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
You know, I haven't seen I've seen the three episodes.
I watched three of them on Friday night. I think
we also forget and it really kind of puts into
context how big a balls Bill had when he made
that move. The guy who was one hundred million dollar
contract with one hundred million.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Dollars, oh yeah, Drew Bledsoe, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Number one overall pick. And this is where I think
football coaches they just have more juice than the other
coaches in basketball and definitely in baseball, because such more
of a management league when their gut tells them something.
I mean, we see it all the time in football,
right college, and pro to know that, Like, yeah, Drew
doesn't move around as well anymore, right, he's been hit
too much. And you watch the other thing. I'm watching
(08:27):
it with my girlfriend. She's like, God, these guys look
bigger back then. I'm like, yeah, Marie, these quarterbacks back
in the day were all six ' six. They were
all huge. When Tom and Drew are standing next to
each other, Caleb's coming out, he's barely six ' one.
These guys have him by five inches. I mean, Drew
Bledsoe is a strapping individual. That's the old school quarterback.
And you're watching when Drew runs and get hit by
(08:49):
moel Lewis, I'm thinking, like most quarterbacks now get out
of bounds, even Brock perties faster right there there, and
the difference in style. And You've been saying this forever
about Belichick. He was perfectly set up for that old
school football, right, and this is where Tom benefits. Obviously,
he took a lot in his control and was really good.
But we're gonna talk a lot about draft picks over
(09:10):
the next couple months. If you go to a team
that sucks you, unless you're an all time transcendent talent,
it's gonna be very, very difficult. Tom did get to
begin starting on a team full of really good defensive
players and clearly a really good coaching staff, and he'd
be the first to tell you, I think a lot
of these Patriot guys are kind of in a weird
way offended by everyone talking about Belichick because it almost
(09:32):
diminishes a little bit. Like what they had as a
group was pretty special, and you watch all these guys,
you're like, yeah, it was a pretty high level group
of individuals.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, it's very Omerita. It's very much secrets kept in
the family. That's why Mangenie I was told. Mangini called
Bill and said, Bill, I know what should do. Don't
tape the Jets.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Bill just said, whatever, I'm gonna tape the Jets. Bill
thought like, it's Omerita, it's the family, their secrets. You
got a job because of me and it burned him.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Speaking of folks, if you haven't watched them on Apple TV,
you should Dynasty. The book's great as well by Jeff Foot.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
The footage they have, it's just it's remarkable.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
But Ernie Adams, and it made me think, So Ernie
Adams is just fantastic. So he is Bills basically, and
I I mean he is, you know, a CFO kind
of like you could. I mean, there's nothing he's I
(10:34):
would say the valet, but he's his caddie and you're like, no, no,
he was often he was often his brains. And I
was thinking about this, and so years and years ago
when I worked at ESPN, George Bodenheimer was the CEO,
and George was really sharp. But when you're the CEO
(10:55):
of a major company, you need it to somebody that
can can call you out, somebody they can watch the
minutia you're doing all these meetings after meetings, I mean.
And George was as smart a guy that I've ever
had the honor or privilege to work under. And his
two was like John Skipper who became the president. And
I remember when Skipper got the job, he didn't have
(11:18):
a strong two and it really cost him. And I
can remember somebody in the company saying to me, John
doesn't have he doesn't have a John. And it's always
made me think about this, whether it's Andy Reid with
maybe it's a Spags, maybe there's somebody on the staff
is most great. I mean, let's be honest, Dave wantsd
(11:38):
at Jimmy Johnson. They just really trusted each other, Parcels
and Belichick, where Belichick's like, Bill, you gotta trust me
on this, and they battle on this stuff. Saban has
done a remarkable job in college to keep the turnstile
of coordinators coming in. But you know, and you could
say since Kirby Smart left, the defense hasn't been quite
as good. You know, he went to Georgia. But when
(12:00):
you watch this special Ernie Adams, I don't even know
there are moments and Damian Woody pointed this out. He
was considered a genius in the building. Bill often you
can just see him. He'd walk off the podium at
practice when Ernie retired about you know, and then years
later Dante's Karnakia. I think that's undervalued. We all talked Brady,
(12:24):
but it's Bill had people that he just he just
leaned on and they all in a short period of
time left and watched this for Ernie Adams, who, by
the way, is a funny guy. Like if there's anybody
you've ever wanted to sit and have a beer with
in football, it's Ernie Adams.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I heard when they were out of football. Well, Bill wasn't.
When they got fired in Cleveland and Bill went to
work for parcels, Ernie was out for a little bit.
That Ernie made Bill millions in the stock market because
Ernie was just, you know, so brilliant. He just started
working on finance till they get back in the league.
When Bill got the head coach in New England, so
he if you think about it as a head coach,
(13:01):
especially when you get of his level of fame and wealth.
The hierarchy in a building is a lot like the military,
where everyone kind of is intimidated by you, and even
when you're having a one on one conversation, there's a
level of I'm here here there. It's just a natural
hierarchy of the building where a coach needs a guy
that he can go in, close the door and have
(13:21):
a normal human one on one conversation where anything can
be said, and that was always what Bill had in Ernie, Right,
a guy that he had known since high school. Think
about that in that two thousand and one Super Bowl,
he was the guy, Ernie, what do you think we
should do with a minute thirty left? As John Maddens
kneel the ball, kneel the ball, and Ernie's like, I
think we're gas Bill, Let's put the pedal to the
(13:41):
medal and go for it. Right. But that's who he asked,
not Charlie Weiss, not Romeo Crenell, not these other coaches
that he's known for a long time as well. So
I've always thought this about Bill. Bill is a very
very good talent evaluator at coach Right, he found Josh McDaniels,
Brian Flores, Adam Peters, Jason Light, all these guys, Casario.
(14:02):
But eventually you run out of it. And that's what
it felt like these last couple of years, is he
just ran out of guys. Yeah, he could not replenish
the well and obviously the quarterback situation. But I you know,
I told you I think like a month ago, I
think Bill should do Amazon TV and show his personality
a little bit and just kind of rebrand himself a
(14:25):
little bit, because right now the NFL owners look at
him like this curmudgeon, negative guy, power hungary. They all
know he's a good coach. But you rebrand yourself a
little bit. A year later, you got three guys begging
you for their job, and let's face it, right now,
that just was not the case, which is crazy. He
couldn't get a head coaching job. He just couldn't know no.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
One wanted him. And I also think, so I think
about this all the time in life, that no is
a really powerful word that people don't use enough, and
sometimes missing on a job is the best thing ever.
There was one great job opening this year, Chargers, Yeah,
next year, and this is not even unlikely. Josh Allen,
Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott. You start going to Derek Carr.
(15:09):
There could be I wrote the oh, Trevor Lawrence. There
could be like five six high end quarterbacks who need coaches.
You can't win in this league. I mean, Belichick's proof.
You can't win big in this league without the quarterback.
So there's a lot of these jobs. I mean, Williams
absolutely so. In a weird way, Rabel and Bill built
(15:32):
out for a year you made a ton of money,
golf a little bit watch games. By the way, Mike McCarthy,
not at that level, ended up getting the cowboy gig.
It's a remarkable I mean, and I think about this
all the time. I mean, you're as a euro former scout.
You know this. There's an insecurity among even great coaches.
Once you're out, you've got to get back in. And
(15:55):
I've thought about this before, like even in my profession.
It's like, if you're talented, just sit back and watch
shows implode, watch managers get you know, act. Stuff opens
up really fast in big money businesses, Silicon Valley football media,
blah blah, whatever it is law. And I think coaches
(16:17):
sometimes feel like I've got to get a gig. But
I mean, if if the Charger's job wasn't open, the
only other job I would have left Michigan for if
I was Hardbaugh is Washington because they have like eighty
million dollars cap space, And I actually think if they
get Drake May, I think I think he's going to
be okay. I mean, what did you make this week
(16:38):
of everybody getting more cap space? Because the NFL came
out and announced the revenues were higher than expected. The
rams now have like forty three million, forty two million
dollars in cap space.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Called it. It doesn't feel like that long ago that
the NFL salary cap was like one hundred and fifty
million dollars, does it. I mean, this thing is, this
thing has gone up at rapids speed. Two hundred and
fifty five million dollars a lot of money. And if
you think about it, it's actually easier to set yourself
up for the next several years because what's two fifty
five in five years three forty, I mean it's going
to go up substantially. So signing some of these contracts,
(17:11):
I do think we need to look at them a
little bit differently. Right when you extend the guy the
way they can manipulate the money on the salary cap
to add up to two hundred and fifty five million dollars,
you need a lot of cap hits at twenty thirty
forty million dollars. So it definitely makes it a lot
more easy. Now here's the problem salary cap space in baseball.
If Sho heo Tani and and even though they don't
(17:32):
have a salary cap, but you know what I mean,
If a baseball player is hitting free agency. Show Heyo
Tani's hitting free agency. If Kevin Durant's a free agent,
he's hitting free agency. Well you just t Higgins franchised.
You're going to see that list of like the top
ten free agents. Franchise franchise, franchise, franchise. That's what makes
football a little unique is having a lot of cap
space in this sport. Most of the best quote unquote
(17:56):
free agents never hit the open market. And then to
get that next here B player, I think you pay
like a twenty five thirty percent premium. Look at last year,
the best tackle on the market, McGlinchey, you had to
give him almost sixty million guaranteed. The forty nine Ers
his third contract, Hardgrave, he gets eighty million dollars forty
million dollars guaranteed. So you pay an ultimately, it's like
(18:17):
you know, beachfront real estate, because not that many guys
hit it. So if it's a starter, a good starter,
a guy that you know is a plug and play starter,
you pay for it, right And even some of these
guys that are franchised, maybe they're quote unquote available through
a trade. It's like, oh, you know, we'd be open
to trading t Higgins, but we need your one in
the twenties, and then you have to pay him twenty
(18:38):
three million dollars a year. So it's if you want
to dabble in, that market is very, very expensive. It's
why to me, the Washingtons of the world, I would
just take a deep breath, kind of let things play out.
The Texans are a better example. Okay, you already see
you got some stuff. If I got to overpay a
guard and overpay a linebacker that I really like, who cares. Yeah,
I got seventy million dollars if I if I invest
(18:59):
thirty five and those two guys, I feel pretty good
about it. But I already know what I got. Like
with Washington and some of these teams, let's just try
to walk before we run. Let's just see how the
quarterback is because yeah, Drake may or Jayden Daniels, whoever
they end up taking. I mean, how often do we
see these guys be overwhelmed or whatever. Then all of
a sudden you got to kind of you want flexibility
as much as possible. To me, the Texans are a
(19:20):
good example. Like I'd be pretty aggressive here, Like could
I go get a T. Higgins. Could I make a
trade right and then pay a guy like I'd be
open to a lot of different options.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
You know. One of the things you're going to the combine.
One of the things that's great about the draft is
it really has you know, the NBA Draft is fun,
but there's two rounds and these guys coming at nineteen
and they go to bad teams. So and the hit
rate's pretty low because you don't have as much video.
It's hard. In the NBA NFL college draft you have
minimum three years of film. A lot of these guys
(19:56):
come from two or three major conferences. They're playing against
NFL guys, So misses, but there's a lot of hits
as well. You know. Now, I was thinking about one
of the things in the draft that I was reading
a story and I forget God. I want to give
credit to whoever did it. They went back and looked
at last year's draft and graded it, and again it's
(20:20):
not so Houston had the most successful draft. So when C. J.
Stroud comes in and crushes some of it is very explainable.
They hit like on five draft picks number two. I
know the Rams and the Seahawks were up there. The
Packers were at three, and I got to tell you something.
I said this, I like both the Packers' last two drafts.
(20:43):
Is I sometimes wonder about this, but by the way
the Jets and the Giants terrible. Is that I sometimes wonder?
And you worked in the building because Philadelphia, where you worked,
it's a wealthy franchise. There are a lot of money here.
Green Bay could argue over the last twenty five years
(21:03):
has done a better job than anybody in this league
drafting and developing and when you were in the league.
And my take is, is a lack of an owner helpful.
The guys run at it are just all football guys.
But the Packers, they went to last year's draft and
the receivers hit and the tight ends hit. And I
(21:23):
just when I look at Green Bay, I think, Okay,
They've had different gms, different coaches, They nail quarterbacks, great o' line,
they always always find receivers and tight ends when you
were in the league. Is it one of those classic
the millionaire next door that if you're on a school
teacher salary, you're just not going to waste as much money.
(21:45):
You're going to be smarter than a stockbroker, who's got
money to right? Are the Packers seen as frugal because
they don't have the game day revenue? But when I
saw that list, and again I apologize for not crediting
who it was, I saw it on the plane. It
was best draft. Last year Packers were a third and
I thought, God, when is the last bad draft the
(22:06):
Packers had.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I think a lot has to do with, you know,
a lot of cultures. When I get rid of everyone, right,
a GM and A and a coach, the owner gets
to hire everybody, and he's always the boss. He's always
hovering over everybody. It goes back to Ron Wolf and Holmgren.
Ron taught all these guys right from Ted Thompson. Gudakins
(22:27):
had worked there forever. So they've had the same culture
in terms of management since Ron Wolf showed up in
the early nineties. So the way they look at players,
they've always been obsessed with high weight speed. I don't
think it has to do as much with like pinchion
pennies and not being able to like, you know, you're
the Rays, they're the Yankee, so you have to outthink them.
I just think that they've taught and streamlined it from
(22:49):
generation to generation very very well. They have a like
a company culture there that I think has transcended general
managers from Ron Wolf to Ted Thompson and Gudakins, and
I think they've been pretty consistent. Back to what you're
saying with the draft of like they all know what
they're looking for because they've been looking for the same
thing now for thirty years. Helps a lot when you
have a quarterback, right, they have a quarterback and they
(23:12):
know how to surround the guy, and they've always done
an incredible job of surrounding the guy on offense. I
think the Ravens are a pretty good example of how
they transitioned from Ossni to Da Costa because the Costa
was his right hand man forever. Yes, So it's like
the point when you have the cohesion, like why are
the Chiefs so strong right now? Because Andy has Spags
who's never leaving, I mean, and who has goes back
(23:35):
for twenty years beating Belichick and Brady. It's very unique
to have that. Kyle or McVeigh get a good coordinator, Boom,
the guy's gone. They can't hold on to their defensive coordinator.
So I think having the cohesion the Packers is a
great place to work. I remember when we were there.
When I worked in the league, everyone was always kind
of envious of like cause it was like this chill vibe,
(23:56):
but they were winning big and it was just through
the Green Bay Packers. There was like the pressure we
had in Philadelphia, felt it every day when you went
in the building. They definitely don't have that. Yeah, I
think the Chiefs really have that going on right now,
but a lot has to do with winning. I just
think it's a very unique organization. But I do think
it gets back to the streamline vision from generation to generation,
(24:17):
and they've all crossed, you know, like John Schneider hires
Mike McDonald. They don't know each other. They're hoping this
chemistry works because he's good coach with the Ravens, and
you know he knows, but it's like you're kind of
keeping your fingers crossed. You look at Harball goes to
the Chargers. Who do they hire as his general manager?
A guy he knows, A guy he's comfortable with from Baltimore.
(24:40):
So you're like, yeah, it's probably gonna work out. He
knows John there, it's all in the family that matters,
Like Shanahan's had a lot of success with people he knows.
He's worked with Robert Solid he coached, Tamiko Ryans, Brian Greasy,
he worked with when he was young in Tampa's dad
knows him. We're all comfortable with people we know, right,
who do you hire the volume like to run your
(25:00):
management people that you're comfortable people with, You know, it helps.
Now they have to be talented, but like when you're
all on the same page, it's a lot easier to operate.
And I think for thirty plus years the packers have
just had a lot of cohesion. Not a lot of
people leave their coaches, do you know, But there their scouts.
I don't know if they pay top notch relative to
the NFL executives, but I sure know when they're winning
(25:22):
things are having success, people like working there.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, you can also buy a hell of a house
in Milwaukee, live like a king four hundred and ninety
thousand dollars. You know, It's it's just it was when
I saw the list, it was like, God, Green Bay
knows what they're doing and to your point, quarterbacks kind
of make it all work. You can, I mean, listen
Brett Veach in Kansas City's had some misses. You forget
sky Moore, you forget them really quickly. Malmes makes you
(25:48):
forget shit really quickly.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Well, it's like someone told me with the Jets a
couple of years ago. They're like they had all those
picks in the top whatever, the first couple of rounds
for two straight years, we could go seven of eight.
They all could be Pro bowlers. If Zach's a whiff,
were in trouble, we'd go one of eight. If Zach's
a hit. Contract extensions, Well what happened? They went seven eight,
Maybe not seven eight, but five or six of eight.
(26:11):
And Zach's the problem and they got issues that quarterback.
I mean, if Jordan Love and we're all gonna pencil
him in, I do think there's a difference of kind
of They got to fly him too the radar a
little bit. This year. They started slow, then they came on.
Everyone next year is gonna be looking at them like
double digit wins playoff team. It is a different pressure.
That's why I give a lot of credit to the Lions.
Everyone took the Lions seriously this year coming in and
(26:34):
they handled it well like it's it's a it's another.
Now Lafleur has success. Now he's been a part of
those type teams with Aaron, so he's I feel comfortable
with it. But sustaining high level play year in year out,
that's hard. So you know there's gonna be a lot
of tangible pressure on Jordan Love next year.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
So it's it's interesting when I this is kind of
a vague topic, but I know I've always kind of
measured how often I talk football. I don't work at
the NFL network, nor do I want to. I like
the NBA. I like, you know, an October September baseball series.
I like the World Cup, a good UFC fight, I
like March Madness. I could never just talk football, and
(27:14):
I've always kept the number around sixty five percent of
the show. But I was talking to a TV exec.
I had a meeting about ten twelve days ago with
a really smart guy, and we were talking about the
Big Ten, and he said, those ratings are going to
go up fifteen to twenty percent. And I had given
college football about an eight year break a hiatus on
(27:37):
my show because it got very regional and very southern.
And I'm not anti SEC, but if it was all it.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Was Alabama, Georgia every in Clemson every year for seven
straight years.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, and so it just like listen, once baseball became
very local. Nobody in Minnesota is going to watch the Mariners.
Nobody in Seattle gives a rip about Tampa Bay. Yet
a Seahawk fan would watch the Buccaneer in Baker Mayfield play.
So once baseball about ten twelve years ago, I felt
it really got local. I just didn't talk about it.
College basketball is a turnstile now between the transfer portal
(28:10):
one and done. You can't name the starters on Duke,
but it is sort of interesting. I was talking to
this executive about the growth of college football. He goes,
you're not going to believe the numbers are going to explode.
And me started talking about the Big Ten schedule and
he's like, you're gonna get Washington, Oregon or Washington, Michigan,
Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State, USC You're gonna have three
and four games in a row all day. And it
(28:33):
did make me think as I was off this week,
and I you know, I kind of shut it down.
When I'm off, I don't watch sports. I just leave
and there was nothing going on anyway. I'm watching the
Warriors Nuggets today.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Crappy year.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
But the biggest story in baseball last week as the
season starts uniforms. You know, they're kind of sheer see through.
Biggest story in the NBA was how bad the All
Star Game was. The biggest story in college basketball was
storming the court. Yet, the NFL is the sport we
talk about because we watch the games. Listen, if you're
a fan, listen to what we talk about when people, sportscasters,
(29:07):
podcasters talk football. We actually talk about strategy in the
games that the NFL. With the growth of college football,
which by the way, between the draft and the combine,
they're really starting to go hand in hand. College basketball
in the NBA are the Grand Canyon. They have nothing
in common. Most of the great players don't even want
to play in college basketball college baseball, but Major League baseball,
(29:29):
college hockey, they don't connect. You know, college soccer and
the MLS they don't connect. College football connects with the
NFL more and more. And I was sitting there this
week watching people talk about sports, and I thought, am
I going to do an eighty percent football show? Based
(29:49):
on the audience. As I've said, the audience drives the
show what they want. I follow ratings and I'm sitting
there thinking, I don't want to work at the NFL network.
But John, between legalized gambling, people now stick through bad games.
This massive Big Ten SCC explosion, where now the two
(30:09):
conferences are going to have all the games we watch,
the ratings are going to skyrocket the twelve team playoff.
I was sitting there this week and I thought, Jesus,
you're talking about see through pants in baseball? Is that
amongst your friends when you go golf, does anybody talk
about anything other?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Football is the other thing that it comes up consistently.
Even and I know a couple of guys and play
golf with some former Major League Baseball players. They talk football.
I mean the Bill's fan, a Packer fan. That's all
they want to talk about. And during the fall, I
think college football, like you said, think about next year Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Georgia, Texas, LSU,
(30:51):
the SEC and the Big Ten get it's gonna feel
like NFL light. I think the NFL. I've said this forever.
I don't know if it's gonna last forever my entire life.
Like I'm almost forty does that forty years dominating When
I was growing up. Baseball was huge the nineties with
the Yankees basketball with Michael Jordan. But for the foreseeable future,
(31:12):
I don't see how that gap. I'm the All Star Game,
guys actively talk like why would we even try to participate?
Anthony Rendon, who's making two hundred and forty five million
dollars to that story, He's like, yeah, baseball is not
even a priority. It's like, well, I think for two
hundred and fifty million dollars, probably probably don't want to
say that, buddy. You know, it's like, can you imagine
an NFL play? I think the relatability sometimes with you
(31:35):
and I don't even blame these guys cause you're getting
two hundred fifty million dollars guaranteed. Some of these basketball
players I played. I played golf last week during the
All Star break with a guy that calls NBA games,
and he was saying, one problem is, and he's on
a pretty high level team, but he just sees it
around the league, is it's always like you have to
max everybody out. Well, you can't lose them. Well, is
the guy a max player? Like we had the max Zion,
(31:58):
Did you or I mean, did you have to? Because
in the NFL you don't have to, and you would not,
And so everyone's making all this money. If I don't
care who you are, if you're twenty five years old
and you're basically guaranteed to get an astronomical amount of money,
you're gonna be jaded in the way you think about everything.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, we're in football.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
It still has this old school meritocracy that if you
do not produce within two years. I've seen it forever.
It's why when I used to go to Niners camp
a lot like I'm not gonna make it too big
a deal about a third or fourth round pick, because
every year I've seen that third fourth round pick by
the time training camp ends, the undrafted free agents beating
him out and might even beat out the starter, And
all of a sudden, two undrafted free agents are starting.
(32:36):
Guys are coming from everywhere, every team, I don't care
if you're a playoff team or a shitty team, and
they're It's kind of like relates to our life. You
gotta produce whatever you do. You either generate revenue, get
your job done, or you gotta get replaced. Where I
think in basketball and baseball, it's kind of like scholarship
once you get paid, Like, I can't what am I
gonna do with you? Even in football, you're gonna see
(32:58):
so many names this week. You're like, got it. I
thought that guy was under a long term contract. They're like, yeah,
we're thinking about cutting him if you won't take a
pay cut, well, thinking about trading him. So basically every guy,
I mean, we could probably name thirty guys like untouchable
in the NFL. A lot of them are quarterbacks and
then a lot of like high level Trent Williams, Travis Kelce,
like those type guys. But basically every other name you
(33:20):
go half the Pro Bowl roster, you're like, yeah, yeah,
we could move on from that guy.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And I think basketball and baseball used to have an
element of that. And definitely their guys were wired. Like
working in like local television in the Bay Area and
meeting a lot of guys that played in the eighties
and nineties, they had that attitude in baseball and basketball,
I can be replaced, I could be cut. They were
very relatable individuals. It's why Charles Barkley is like one
of the biggest TV stars of all time. He's relatable.
(33:47):
I think it's much more difficult for the modern guy
in that sport to be relatable because you're making one
hundred million dollars guaranteed whether you're good or bad. No
one has a problem when you're good getting paid. But
he's like, is this guy, even Jordan Poole's making one
hundred and thirty million dollars, he's like the worst in
the NBA.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah. Well, and I've talked to a handful of execs
and I've brought this up before. They laugh at the
NBA structure. They're like, what a joke they make fun
NFL guys. I remember having this conversation a couple of
years ago when the CTE thing came down, and a
lot of these Northeast media types who don't understand the
passion for football in the Midwest or college football, they're like,
(34:24):
it's the end of the NFL. Like you've been in
the Northeast way too long, where baseball still talked about
on sports radio a lot. I'm like, football's not going anywhere.
It's way too big to fail. There's way too much money,
and they've cleaned it up that nobody hits at practice
anymore once the season starts. By the way, you get
to the Super Bowl, usually the teams that get to
(34:44):
the Super Bowl are missing maybe one starter. Like everybody's
got the I mean, guys are healthy.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Miners and Chiefs were healthy.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, so there's a you know the Chiefs a few
years ago missing their tackles, and it was like, yeah,
that's what happens. But one of the things the structure
of the NFL is the structure of most of our lives.
You're tradeable, cuttable, fireable. And I never understand fans like
this is like we're fans. I look at fans and
(35:12):
I just think you guys are in your mind this idea.
I want my guy to get the bag.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Fuck that.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I don't want many players to get the bag because
it limits my flexibility. I am always rooting for the
team to sign a reasonable contract so it gives the
team flexibility. I mean this idea like Dack's got a
three hundred million dollars net worth after his next contract,
He's fine, but you're you're not fine if you overpay players.
(35:40):
But it is interesting. The NFL is the only sport
and I will say the MLS and hockey are the closest.
NBA Baseball are a mess that it's like you just.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I turned to a former hockey guy that played fifteen years.
I didn't know who he was, but we started BS
and he was one of the most relatable individuals. I
had to google him after God, this guy played. They
have a relatability to the way they talk and the
way they interact. They're actually I'm like, this guy could
have talked to anyone in here and could have gotten along.
It was very impressive.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, I met a guy at a bar in Naples
one time. NHL guy was a Bruin. I didn't know.
I'm google them same. But I also think they have
a very tight cap and stars get paid. Everybody else
makes a good living, not an insane living. And I'm
not anti I always said this. I'm not anti players
making money. I'm not anti mobility. But in any business,
(36:32):
if you're paying B and C employees a money, you're
going to have a problem. And I do think and again,
I love NBA playoff basketball, I really do. It's one
of my favorite things. But I NFL guys they look executives, owners,
they look at the NBA and baseball and they just
laugh at their structure.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Well, I think one power of the NFL, like you
said about a random fan will watch not his team
and know their players. I also think because the power listen,
we can argue over the franchise tag, whether it's fair
or not. It's one of the healthiest things for the
business by a mile, because when Kevin Durant or Aaron
Judge or Shoheo Tani when they hit free agency, there
(37:13):
is no mechanism to keep them, and in those leagues,
guys turn over a lot, which is not great for
the league. If I'm the Kansa Chiefs, I would imagine
bottom ten market in the NFL. If I want to
keep Patrick Mahomes his entire career, or the Packers with
Rogers Afar, I can until I choose to get rid
of them, and that's healthy for my organization for the league.
The Chiefs were just in a Super Bowl and they're
(37:35):
easily now I would say one of the most recognizable
brands in the NFL because of Patrick, and that's not
really possible. Like in the NBA, if the Nuggets make
the NBA Finals, it's not great. They would much rather
have Steph Curry or Lebron in the NBA Finals. We're
in the NFL. It helps to have the Niners there,
But if it had been the Lions, maybe it's not
one hundred and twenty What is one hundred and fifteen
(37:56):
million people still watch the enter It doesn't impact. And
that's where I think the NFL has dwarfed everyone that
they're no longer dependent on markets. The brands. Yeah, their
brands changed by the player, by the quarterback. Who you know,
if Josh Allen's healthy is going to be on the
bill for fifteen years and it's all you didn't like that?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah, if you go back ten years, the CTE check
whenever it was. It was remarkable to listen to so
many sports writers. It was like, guys, your tone deaf.
Don't you have never lived in the South. You don't
get Texas. It was a lot of Northeast sports writers.
It was a lot of this high minded Remember Sports
Illustrated started out covering fencing, had to be like persuaded
(38:34):
to cover football. There is this sort of high minded
view of you know, college football and football, and it's like, guys,
it's it's the best run sport.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
There was a great moment in the Dynasty series with
Roger Goodell. Remember when they got rid of the tapes
put a hammer to him, got rid of the Spygate tapes. Yeah,
and there was this media guy, why'd you get rid
of the tape? And he said, well, because the punishment
had been handed out. Well, but what about and he said, no,
the punishment had been handed out, there was no need
(39:09):
for the tapes. Well, I mean why Goodell said, tapes
get out? He goes, like these got out? He goes,
we destroyed them, and it shut the reporter up. But
the reporter he wanted so badly. Goodell got hammered for
that that he destroyed the tapes. And the point was
there was no value in those tapes once the spines
(39:32):
and suspensions were handed out. Belichick was fine half a
million dollars at the time anytime, a lot of money.
But at the time he wasn't making what he's making now.
And so Goodell gets a lot of crap because I
think by and large, the media doesn't like power. But
like Dana White and Goodell, i'd argue are the two
best commissioner CEOs of their sport. They're both Dana's highly
(39:56):
defiant and Goodell. Think about how big that industry is.
What's the last look at how leagues have dealt with
societal changes, cultural changes, strikes. I've always thought Goodell, mostly
because Goodell doesn't pander to the media. I've had dinner
(40:19):
with him and drinks. You can ask Roger anything. He
literally I asked him on the air one time he
came on my show and I said, Roger, I love
your sport. I don't know what it catches. My friends
don't know what it catches. He acknowledged live on the ear.
He goes, it's Colin. It's a problem. That year they
changed it in the Super Bowl Eagles. Remember in that
(40:40):
Super Bowl the ball was juggled and they allowed it.
What commissioner would have done that? I think when I
watched The Dynasty, it was another reminder that the NFL
is incredibly well run and Goodell really has his shit
buttoned up.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
How about the part when Robert Craft bought the Patriots
that he bought the surrounding area because he knew the
value in that that. No, I was like, what a genius.
Can you imagine the level of business savviness that it
takes to even because he's thinking that before he even
has the money and the level of no wonder, he's
(41:22):
one of the better owners in the NFL. No wonder
his you know, he's being talked about like he is
to be able to make a move like that.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, So for people wondering the stadium wasn't great, but.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I think historically it was like the worst in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
One I thought, yeah, it was. In fact, they threatened
to go to Hertford at one point, and so he
bought the Craft, bought the he bought the land around
the stadium. So if you bought the stadium, he was
gonna you know, he would be making all the money
around it with shops and restaurants. No. I think I
think what I appreciated about all that is that, you know,
(41:59):
Kraft was a Patriot fan. That's all he was. He
was a Patriot fan. Yeah, and all these owners when
they buy the team. When Jerry Jones bought the team,
Jimmy Johnson told me, for the first year, financially, Jerry
was like going to card dealers and try to get ads.
Like He's like, we do it. We weren't the Cowboys.
It's like you had to overpay Craft. By the way,
the first couple of years, they were not rolling.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
In it, no one thing. And I said this on
the podcast last week. You might not have seen because
you were vacationing, but Drod Mayo, they clearly have a
huge push from the Patriots to be like, we love
the media. Now you guys who are our friends, our
assistant coaches, know your importance. And I don't even And
I've heard good things. He's an impressive guy. I don't
(42:42):
even necessarily blame him for saying that because it's clearly
coming from Jonathan and Robert. I think they are too obsessed, Like, yeah,
Bill could be an asshole who cares no one the
media does, has no pull in the narrative. Once you
start playing games, if you win, it doesn't matter how
he is. If you lose, it doesn't none of it matters.
(43:03):
He's only gonna be So yeah, they could write great
articles for the next six months. The moment he starts
zero and four and Jade Daniels has throwing seven interceptions
in one touchdown, you got a problem on your hands.
No matter how much they like the guy, they will
turn on you every time. So I understand the crafts.
They just want some. They want more smiles. It's all bullshit.
(43:23):
The reason Belichick got run out of time he started
losing it wasn't because his press conferences. And I just
think it's a human you know, it's natural reaction to
want to pivot off what you just had. In relationships
with coaches, we see it all the time. The Craft
parcels a hole Pete nice guy, Belichick like parcels now,
(43:44):
jirod Mao like a Pete Carroll happy. And I think
they're obsessed with the wrong thing right now in New England,
and I do wonder if they got something coming their way,
this is gonna be a lot more difficult than they realize.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
You know, I've had people ask me this before, why
the athletes come on your show, And I think, well,
I got a bigger each And I'm not Mike Wallace.
I can ask a tough question. But by and large,
most athletes have secondary incomes or you know, projects or charities,
and we always mention them. But I think the reality
(44:22):
of athletes and sports is they largely don't need the media.
That's why I've always appreciated let's pivot to the NBA here,
It's why I've always appreciated Lebron James. It doesn't matter
if it's a local, regional, telecaster, national. Lebron always stops
to talk to the press always. Michael did this too.
(44:42):
Jordan was great, Kobe was really good at this stuff.
Some guys aren't. But you know, as Lebron season winds down,
I think the Lakers have championship length. Lebron ad I
don't think their championship team. I think Boston and Denver
just feel like better than everybody. But I do want
to talk about the Warriors for second, because generally, speaking
as I was, you know, they've gone on a bit
(45:03):
of a heater. I think they've won eight of ten,
played really really well. They put Clay Thompson on the bench,
and they brought this rookie and who they drafted to
be the next Clay, the Pods kid, Brandon Podds like
and he is frankly, he's got I mean even during
draft night, you're like, he kind of plays like Clay.
He's got an edge to him. He's a little salty,
and then cominga now has become like a pretty consistently
(45:24):
good performer. Wiggins is playing a little better now. Generally,
you know, Shaq and Kobe breaks up. The Heatles break
up Michael Jordan. You can get really bad, really fast.
But I'm sitting watching I'm sitting watching the Warriors over
the last two weeks, and I'm like, okay, that's the
(45:45):
last dynasty and I'm like, now Cominga's Cominga's a real player,
and Clay's off the bench. Clay's, by the way, he
had a heater playing the Nuggets. Clay off the bench
is a totally different expectation than Clay starting. And I'm like,
I know they have a rookie, but I watch them
and I'm like, okay, they don't match up well with Denver.
(46:07):
Almost nobody does. Lakers do a little because Ad can
defend Jokich, but you know the Bay Area very well.
Are we gonna have because it doesn't work this way.
When dynasty's end, they go into the freaking tank. Durant left,
they want another one. Then they step back and I
watched them in the last two weeks and I'm like,
you know what, Steph's still a top five six player,
(46:29):
Draymond's still a catalyst, offensively excellent defensive player, Clay off
the bench, two young guys that can actually score pods
can score, Coaminga can score. Kurzys Wiggins has played much better.
I gotta tell you, John the West outside of Denver,
everybody's got an issue. Like everybody.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I think one thing the Warriors have is they're a throwback.
I mean, these guys have played together forever. I mean
you watch the Phoenix Suns. They've been together for ten minutes. Yeah,
how can you have any faith in most of these
teams beside Denver that they've been put together over the
last eighteen months. The Warriors are much more like a
nineties or eighties teams where the group has played together forever.
(47:11):
How about Steve kurz contract right, Like he's not in
it for the rest of his life, but as long
as step is there and Draymond is there and now
they have some young players, So yeah, I wouldn't want
any part of these guys in a big length I
mean last year the Lakers annihilated him in that series
length play and Clay was terrible. So to me, if
Clay is the day and age of fourteen through eighteen,
(47:35):
is gone right ace. But if he is just a
solid I can trust six out of the seven games
to be in the high teens in one of those
games he gets.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
It's like when westbrookoff the bench for the Clippers is
a mister energy.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, I thought, Draymond said on his podcast. He's like,
I'm telling you we can compete for a championship this year.
Like they're cohesion their group. They got Chris Paul coming back,
Cary Peyton's healthy now, and Steph is one of the
most remarkable players in the history of sports and still
like when he's going, is one of the best players
in the NBA. The key to them, though, is Draymond,
who's playing really well in Clay because Steph last year,
(48:12):
like what else do you want to do against the Lakers?
It was everybody else. So they just need Clay to
meet Clay. If he can be like a B for
them and then at moments a B plus a minus
against good teams in the first or second round, then yeah,
hell yeah they could make a run. Yeah you know it,
Steve Kirk about you see their value when Steph showed up,
(48:33):
it was like three hundred and twenty five million dollars.
That's what lake A bought the team for. Now. I
don't think they would sell for this because so much
is dependent on Steph who's thirty six, thirty seven years old.
Ford valued them at over eight billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Oh, I think. So the arena is the arena.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
It's a cash cow. It's one of the only cash cows. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And also that they own, so that's that's a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yeah, I think that's a huge component to it. It's interesting.
So I covered Steve Kirk a couple years in Portland,
and that team also had the governor of Oregon, like
Chris Dudley. So it was a team that had like
problem guys and then two of the smart guys like mayors,
and it just was a fast bonus. Was a fascinating
(49:14):
player to cover Damien's Damon Stodemeyer Pippen. But Kerr's remarkable.
So Kerr is part of the greatest NBA team ever
and hit some of the biggest shots. He's now one
of the best coaches. He's largely considered sort of it's
got kind of a Phil Jackson field where there's a psychology,
a psychological impact, an expertise beyond just x's no's. So
(49:39):
he's on the greatest team created, one of the best
coaches of all time. As a general manager. It's first
of all, it's it's impossible. This list league is. If
you don't have great players, you know you're not a
great GM. He was. He was clearly capable. He was
a tremendous broadcaster. I mean I thought he was. I
(49:59):
think he's one of the best analysts in any sport.
I thought Kerr was a riot. He was quick, he
was nimble, he was funny player, broadcaster, coach like Kerr.
In my lifetime, Phil played marginal player, Phil coach, great GM,
disaster broadcaster. No like Steve, Kerr has moved into an area.
(50:25):
I mean, I don't know what the compass broadcaster, coach, player.
He is one of the most significant people in league history.
I think just people have taken him for granted because
he looks so young. People forget that he's an older guy.
Now he's moving into a pat riley stage where I'm like,
this is an all time top five guy in league history.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
And it wasn't he part. I mean, he was one
of the key guys in some of those great teams
at Arizona. I mean, he's been basketball royalty for since
the moment he was eighteen nineteen years old. I think
we say this a lot of times in scouting, like
this guy could do whatever he wants, could run a bank,
could start his own company, could be a football player.
And it's usually with famous you know, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady,
Drew Brees usually fall under that. I think we look
(51:10):
at Steve a little different because he was a role player,
but like that was really the the like his lowest
level of accomplishment in terms of his ability right everything
else he's been Michael Jordan at like, he's clearly one
of the best coaches in the NBA's he's now the
highest paid guy. He was, he was an elite, he
was an all time great shooter. He just wasn't very big.
(51:31):
He just had physical limitations. But Michael trusted him. I
mean the last dance is like, Steve, I'm coming to you, right,
trust him that way. Phil swore by him. Phil begged
him to take the next job under The media loves
to call Phil the village idiot, but for a long
time in my life, Phil was the cream of the crop.
And Joe lacub who was an old school kind of
just like George Steinbrenner killer, i mean, refuses like has
(51:54):
gone all in on this guy now for a decade.
So he went there, and Steph Curry basically went to
the Warriors like I'm not playing for anybody else. So
one of the greatest players in the history of the
sport basically looked at management like you better figure this out.
He told Marcus Thompson Athletic like I wanted Steve to
stay and put our contracts together. That's the guy like
Michael Jordan's going, you know, on Kobe, the way they
(52:15):
talked about Phil that's the way they talk about Steve Kerr.
So I think he's just one of those rare guys.
He could have been a politician, he could have been
an executive. He was, but in any other industry, obviously,
he's just a basketball addict. And I think basketball got
lucky that how many guys of his level would have
because the last thing that came was coaching. He did
(52:36):
everything else right, He broadcasting, general manager, business stuff. It's
like I really want to coach. It's usually the other
way around. The guy coaches first kind of gets burned
out and does all the other stuff. He actually did
the hardest thing last. Now he got lucky. Lucky. He's
the wrong word. He made the right decision because he
had options. Instead of going to the Knicks, he went
to the Warriors, and obviously it changed the trajectory of
(52:59):
his basketball life. But when you just think like basketball
Hall of Famers, he's got three rings with the Bulls,
he's got two rings with the Spurs. He's got four
rings with the Warriors. And they've lost a couple of finals. Right,
how many finals the guy have been to? Probably like fifteen.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
The we'll wrap it up here, we've been we've been
going fifty minutes. We'll wrap it up. So I go.
My wife and I John bought a place in Rhode
Island because I went there for ten years when I
worked at the other place, and we vacation took our
kids there. So we sold our house in la in
like July and we bought a place in August next
(53:38):
to a beach in Rhode Island. So it's always been
one of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
It showed me the picks of the party. It looked good.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Yeah, it's nice, and that's that's where I'll retire in
the summer and fall in about twelve years, ten twelve
years whatever. And so Friday night we go out with
friends and We come home at nine thirty and we
pull into the driveway, my wife and I, and there's
(54:04):
a car parked in my driveway. Now gotta remember this
is a summer, summer town. There's nobody's lights you're on
except ours. So I'm like, what's going on? So I
pull in behind the car and I walk up to
it with my phone. You know, I don't know what's
going on about lights in the house. Is somebody robbing
my house? So I go up there and I asked
(54:27):
this young girl. She rolls her window down and her
dog starts barking. I said, can I ask why you're here?
And she says, she pauses, Well, I uh yeah. I
was just wondering if your house is for sale. And
I'm like, oh, I'm getting robbed. It's nine thirty, there's
no for sale sign. I'm getting robbed. Her boyfriend's in
(54:49):
the house. So I called nine one one, given the address. Well,
the Westerly Rhode Island Police fantastic, like three dudes, three cars.
Wasn't a lot of action, And apparently they came flying
down the street. And we're kind of on a point
so it's not easy to get to so and they
were great guys. I mean, they were just total pros.
(55:11):
It really made me feel good about this town. I'm like,
these guys really are buttoned up. They were young, fit.
Look you're right in the eye. They were to take
names on the guys. Yeah, they weren't effing around. And
I was in the house.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
What's that was someone in the house.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Well, so the guy goes there cars running. First of all,
shouldn't be here cars running, And I said, there's no
lights on. So my takeaway was, either she thinks because
Taylor Swift lives ten houses away, I said, much bigger
than my house. Obviously, I said, does she think this
is Taylor Swift's house is a mental health issue? So
(55:49):
they talked to her and it was she was very confused,
you know, made certain claims that didn't make any sense.
So then you feel sympathy. You're like, okay, Then I
had to Then the cops would the house, three of them,
you know, they were ready to go. And then I
followed in and in this house is one hundred years old.
My basement has ten doors, I mean it's it's a
(56:10):
maze of doors. And we've been fixing it up for
five six months. So and so I tried to eat.
I tried to email the Westwardly police the next day.
It was so damn hard to find an email. I
just was going to email a sergeant and say, hey,
your guys are great. You got good dudes there, man,
they were total pros. But you know, it's so I
(56:32):
guess my point is when we discovered that Taylor Swift
was ten houses away, I was like, that doesn't hurt
property value now.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
I was like, do you think she was looking for
Taylor Swift or she's just kind of off on her eye?
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I just said, I because there's been stories of multiple
people like being around the property. I mean, Taylor Swift's
the biggest star in the world, the biggest star, beautiful, talented.
So it really did make me think, oh my god,
because this this young lady had no idea who I was.
I mean, she didn't care, But my god, I got
(57:08):
my wife in the car. I'm here to protect my wife,
like right, like, I'm go out of the car. I
got the phone. I'm like, you know, but so that's
want to hear.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Your thoughts on Baker Mayfield's next contract.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Nah, wasn't really interested in the combine breakdown, not so Anyway,
the point was I had a great week off. I
love where I went. It's unbelievable, but there was a
little drama there. And also that I love Rhode Island.
But Rhode Island's got a neat unique history, very unique
history that you know. Buddy Seance was a mayor of Providence.
(57:41):
Providence Federal Hill, it's where the mob bumb out. So
you know, Rhode Island's the wild wild West in government.
I almost I have a wine store business in Connecticut
with my friend Brian. You know, we thought about moving
into Rhode Island and it was like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
No thanks, you gotta pay. I'm on twenty percent off
the top just to operate.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
Oh John, you don't know the half of it. Twenty percent.
So and by the way, I love Rhode Island because
of its history. It's so unique. It's a little wild
wild West. They do their own thing. But earlier that night,
the place I was at I went and I it
was a very interesting place. I won't give the name out,
(58:24):
but I asked the people that took me there, I'm like,
they got thirty people in this area. There's twelve people
in the restaurant. How the hell do they fund it.
My friend goes, oh, yeah, it's run by the mob,
and I'm like, so between I went to a place
run by the mob. I mean they had like thirty
people and I'm like, there's eight people having dinner. This
(58:46):
doesn't make any sense. I mean it was just and
then between that and the young lady who I think
thought I was Taylor Swift, my Friday was it was full.
It was full.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
It was a lot of John Gottie call on Coward
and Taylor Swift on the same street.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Crazy ass Friday for me. Glad I'm home in quiet
Los Angeles. John Middlcoff enjoy the combine, Buddy.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
I will take it easy.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
Volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment, rate and review.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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