All Episodes

December 18, 2023 62 mins

Colin argues that Sean McVay deserves to be in the running for coach of the year for taking a team that was supposed to win five games to potentially winning ten (4:00).

John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” joins Colin to break down all the week 15 action, starting with the Buffalo Bills running over the Dallas Cowboys (10:00), and whether the Jets should bring back Aaron Rodgers (20:30). They debate whether the Bears should bring back Justin Fields (28:00) and whether the Bucs should re-sign Baker Mayfield (38:00). They award the Lions front office with the MVP award (43:00), and discuss whether the Chiefs wide receivers will hold them back from competing for a title (52:30)

They also look ahead to Bill Belichick’s future (58:00), and whether Mike Tomlin would be the best fit as the head coach of the Chargers (01:01:00).

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)

Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd #3AndOut

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. NFL fans, it is time to unwrap the
greatest gift of the holiday season. This holiday season, throw
down on some big matchups on the Draft King Sportsbook,
the official sports betting partner of the National Football League DraftKings.
This week new customers can bet just five bucks. That's it.

(00:22):
That's all. You've bet five bucks and get one hundred
and fifty dollars instantly in bonus bets only on Draftking
sports Book. The code is Colin co Ln Draftking Sportsbook.
Download the app takes less than a minute. The crown
is yours. Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or
visit www dot one eight hundred gambler dot net. In

(00:43):
New York call eight seven seven eight hope and y
or text hope n Y four six seven three sixty nine.
In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling called eighty
eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit
CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill
Casino and Resort KS licensee partner go Old and Nugget
Lake Charles twenty one plus. Age varies by jurisdiction Voyden, Ontario.

(01:04):
Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance,
se sportsbook dot DraftKings dot com, slash Basketball, terms for
eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. All right, everybody,
Every Sunday, we chop it up for an hour. John Middlecoff,
former NFL scout with the Philadelphia Eagles. He's got a

(01:25):
three and out podcast on the volume. So we break
down a lot of stuff today. Even one of the
Saturday games, we spent about almost fifteen minutes, twelve minutes
on the Lions big win, what to expect from them
going forward, and Sean Payton and Russell Wilson's blow up
in the sideline. One guy doing the blown up Sean Payton.
But we'll start with the Cowboys getting destroyed by the
Bills in a couple of minutes. But you know, my

(01:47):
takeaway as we watch this Sunday is there are teams
in this league. You know, if you have a bad CEO,
the business gets worse over time. You saw that with
Brandon Staley and the Chargers. They got worse every week.
They opened the season nearly beating Miami looked really interesting,
and then a poorly run business gets bet Washington. The

(02:10):
Commanders with Ron Rivera, they were a viable team seven
weeks ago. They just get worse. It feels like every
week you can see some of these defensive coaches they
feel Jurassic. They're out of touch.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Meanwhile, you've got Shane Steichen taking Gardner Minshew and beating
the Steelers. You've got Sean McVay. I think Sean McVay
right now, week to week is doing the best job
of coaching in the entire league. Really outplayed the Commanders
from the very beginning, and you just saw a classic, young, smart,
progressive offensive head coach just getting better offensively every week.

(02:45):
It's amazing. He takes a rookie Puka Nakua, he takes
Kyron Williams, who's now like the third best offensive player
in the league behind Tyreek Hill and Christian McCaffrey. Folks,
that's coaching. Coaching is getting the most out of your players.
And here in Los Angeles, nobody got less than Brandon Staley,
and nobody gets more than Sean McVay. The job he

(03:05):
has done this year is absolutely remarkable. He is squeezing
every ounce out of a defense that's Aaron Donald and
kids and an offense which is guys mostly Stafford Cup,
Tyler Higbee, probably Rob Havenstein didn't play today, the right
tackle a little bit out of their prime, and then
kids Kyron Williams and Puka Nakua. It is a marvel

(03:26):
to watch the Rams play. And I know I live
in Los Angeles and you're thinking, oh, Colin, you're going overboard.
This team was picked to win five games in Vegas
and they have an opportunity to win ten, and you
look at their schedule. I'm just sitting there watching that
Rams game today against the Commanders, and I thought, that
is the difference in the National Football League offensive coaches

(03:50):
and defensive coaches, the ability to take young players on
the offensive side. Sam Howe very good early, a mess quarterback,
a kid for Washington. Why got a defensive culture with
Ron Rivera. Meanwhile Puka Nakua the running back. They have
young guys all over the offensive line. That's the league.

(04:12):
And so if I had to vote coach of the year,
probably give it to Dan Campbell, Sean McVay, Demico Ryans
at Houston would be at the top of the list.
I just thought the Rams today it wasn't nearly as close.
You know, they got Jacobe Burssett came in, they got
a couple of eight touchdowns. McVeigh runner up arguably for

(04:32):
Coach of the Year. He's been that good. And now
for a segment called making It Look Easy, brought to
you by Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm.
Baker Mayfield. He made it look easy. We'll talk about
him later, beating the Packers three hundred eighty yards and
four touchdowns and a perfect passer rating for Baker Mayfield.

(04:52):
Just like he made it look easy, so does Morgan
and Morgan. Over one hundred offices nationwide, eight hundred lawyers,
and over fifth dean billion dollars in claims. They have
been able to recover for hundreds of thousands of clients.
Morgan and Morgan has been fighting for the people for
thirty five years. If you're ever injured, go to fourth

(05:13):
People dot com, slash Colin or dial pound five to
two nine. Checkout America's largest injury law firm. Winning in
the NFL is hard, but hiring Morgan and Morgan is easy.
All right, everybody, welcome in. It's the Colin Coward Podcast.

(05:35):
You know who I am. I hope by this point
in my life. And this is John Middlecoff Three and
Out podcast at the volume you see them all the
time on our digital stuff, the Twitter accounts and a
former NFL scout. We start with the obvious one. I
did like Buffalo to win. I do think this this
league week to week. It depends on the spot you're in.
I think San Francisco is unique in where they're bad

(05:58):
game is still good enough, you know, to go to
Clee and almost win if they hit field goals. But
most of the teams in this league have just bad Sundays.
They're off a big win, they're you know, they're This
was a spot for Buffalo. James Cook now is becoming
a real part of this offense.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
All of a sudden, Dallas on the road falls behind.
Dak's not the same quarterback behind. Are you surprised, however?
How the Bills ran the ball on the Dallas defense.
It was I don't remember seeing the Dallas defense run
defense that poor for a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
To me. One thing that Dallas over the last month,
why a lot of us have been buying in is
because of their physicality, Like just their overall toughness, and
today Buffalo kicked their ass. I mean that goack on
was a beatdown. And I think I said last week
when we watched Buffalo pull that crazy game out against
Kansas City, it's hard to take them seriously when all

(06:54):
their games were like that. They were like the better
version of the Chargers. They just found a way to
win some of them. But today you gotta give them
their ceiling. I mean, they have a couple wins this
year that Miami win early in the season. Miami's pretty good.
That game against Dallas today, like their ceiling is pretty high.
When they're on obviously playing at home, the division is
still open, like the division is not set. Miami schedule

(07:17):
is very hard. They play Dallas, they play the Ravens,
then they finished with Buffalo. You look at buffalo schedule,
at the Chargers, who mailed that thing in the Pats,
and then they finished, like we said, with Miami. Listen,
they've kind of reeled me back in because today it
was as much about Josh Allen just going Lebron James
or Steph Curry. It was more the defense annihilated McCarthy's offense,

(07:40):
and like you said, the run game, what has Buffalo
always lacked. It's they've never had a running back beside Josh. Well,
if you can get a guy, you don't need him
to get one hundred and eighty yards every game. But
if you can rely on an individual to be one
hundred yard a game guy in cold weather games, hard
not to like Buffalo and look at him a little
differently after the last sixty minutes.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right right. You know, I was thinking about the Steeler
teams with Tomlin when Ben was in his prime. Is
that and they had like, you know, a lavian bell,
And that's what Buffalo reminds me of. They didn't win,
you know, they got a Super Bowl, no question, a
couple with Ben. But this is what Buffalo reminds me.
A defensive coach, a defensive culture with a star quarterback

(08:22):
that's about seventy percent of the offense. And they when
they had the star running back kind of in his
prime as an energy, a twitchy, energy player. There's always
Pittsburgh always had a star receiver on the outside. They
draft and developed receivers better than Buffalo. But this is
what this is really what they remind me of. This

(08:44):
is a big Ben Steeler team with a defensive coach,
defensive culture that has enough offensive pieces to win. And
I when I watched them today, I'm like, not everybody
peaks at the right time. Rams are a totally different
team than six weeks ago. Don't even look like the
same team. I mean, that's a dangerous team. Now they're
blowing people out. So I do you buy my Bills

(09:08):
look like a Steeler comp Ben Josh Allen defensive coach
where they're very, very energized running back.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, don't hate it at all. And like the Pittsburgh
they're comfortable playing outside, right, And that's and look at
the AFC, It's hard to know how the seeding is
gonna shake out, but they would be comfortable. We've seen
them go on the road in Kansas City and play well,
go on the road in Baltimore and play yeah, right,
Cleveland no problem, Miami, no problem. They won't. They view

(09:35):
Miami as an inferior team, right, So you go listen
if this team gets in there and they have a
chance to run the table and get to eleven and six,
I mean a couple of weeks ago, it felt like
the building was on fire. And this is where you
got to give McDermott and Josh and some of the
guys internally some credit. They handled it. They kept, you know,
kind of the train on the tracks a little lucky. However,

(09:57):
you want to look at last week it played out
they won the game, and today they beat the living
shit out of the Cowboys. And that was Listen, a
lot of people were betting on the Bills. It's another
thing to be up thirty to three and the Cowboys
struggled to get over one hundred yards of offense with
five minutes left to go in the game. I don't
think anyone saw that. And that's kind of a rough
reflection on Dallas that you know, the Eagles obviously, the

(10:18):
story today changing the defensive coordinators, guys are sick, they're
working through some stuff. But how's that team going to
go on the road and beat the Niners? Because you
want to take Dallas seriously as this NFC contender, this
team to go to the super Bowl, and then you
watch a game like today, you're like, how does that happen?

Speaker 1 (10:35):
How does that happen? Don't the Cowboys play Miami next?

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Okay, so this is classic NFL. Dallas gets humiliated physical team,
so they are gonna flex physically. Miami finesse team blows
out a physical Jets team. They come back to Earth
watch Dallas face Miami and push them all over the
field for three and a half hour. I mean you

(11:00):
can see it a mile away back Dallas. Yeah, they're
coming out. They just got humiliate And not only did
they get humiliated, they were pushed around the field. So
the whole week of Cowboy practices, let's get back to
physical football. So, folks, I'll just I had a really
good Sunday today. I had the Lions, I had the Bills,
I had the Rams. Okay, not so good on San Francisco, Arizona.

(11:21):
Take the Cowboys right now against Miami.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
And the other thing with Dallas, Right, we'll see how
tomorrow plays out. They still you know, Drew Lock's probably
going to be the quarterback. But what if the Eagles lose, right,
the Cowboys would still get a little life. You know,
just talk a Monday night, sitting at home. Get to
look in the mirror, take a deep breath. Miami's a
much better matchup than that version of whatever we just
saw out of Buffalo. The way they just played, right.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
You know, there is something you know, I always felt
there are certain glamour franchises, the Lakers, Texas Football, the
Dallas Cowboys, that it's almost impossible. As the NFL's gotten younger,
you get this young cowboy team and they're on every show.
I mean, if the Jags going a seven game winning streak,
guys like me, steven A, doesn't matter who it is,

(12:08):
we don't talk about him. Cowboys going a three game
winning streak, every player turns on the TV, how about
them Cowboys? And I do think it's really hard to
sometimes manage young athletes when they're rolling. I think it's
harder to be Sark or Mike McCarthy because you become
a centerpiece of discussion and elevation. And I think Dallas

(12:32):
kind of just got into Dallas and it's very this
is what happens. They win, they roll, and all of
a sudden you're like, oh wait, this is the NFL.
We're going up to Cole Buffalo. I mean, there was
not a minute of that game. No, Dallas was not
ready to compete today.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Well do you know what I've always had the take of,
You know, I didn't love paying Dak forty plus million
dollars a couple of years ago, thought he was a
little overrated, and then he's kind of shutting you up.
He started to play really good football. You're like, got
this guy, I might win the MVP. And then you
watch today and you go, yeah, that's kind of the guy.
It's like, you know, he's still got that in him.
He's done in the playoffs the last two years against
the Niners. How is there any scenario without major injuries

(13:14):
where you can see the Cowboys beating the forty nine ers,
Because I just I struggle to do that. I don't
think it exists.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, I think Dak is a different quarterback trailing, and
most quarterbacks are. But the difference between Dak at home
leading and DAK on the road trailing, it's like two players, right,
like it really is. And at most quarterbacks, you know,
Baker Mayfield's always been He's a good front runner, he's
not good trailing. But we don't consider Baker Mayfield to

(13:44):
be a forty five million dollars year quarterback. So I
look at DAK, and you know, there are components to
Dallas that feel like a super Bowl team. A good
quarterback having a great year, Matt Ryan, cam Newton dak
good quarterback, having a great year, a really unique energy,
play well at home, have a knockout punch somewhere on

(14:07):
the perimeter as a weapon. But those teams didn't win
super Bowls. And I just feel like in order to
win a Super Bowl, Dallas being a wild card team,
potentially it'd be just at San Francisco, you know, at
a Philadelphia at Detroit. That's really hard. Cincinnati almost pulled
it off a few years ago, but they were you know,

(14:29):
Burrow was on just a streak. But I just think
I just think Dallas. I think it's a hard ask
for anybody if you don't have a star quarterback.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, I think those two teams you named, they got
home games. And like you said, this team more than
likely is gonna be the fifth seed and they're gonna
be a heavy favorite in that first game. But Tampa's
got some good players. It might not be as easy
as it was last year. Right So, and then right
away you got to go on the road to Philly
to San Francisco to Detroit, depending on how the seating
shakes out. And that's just a lot to ask. And

(15:01):
let's face it, because like you said, of the brand,
do they get thrown on Monday night football game again, right,
and then all of a sudden you get that weird
kind of shorter week, even if you get the afternoon
Sunday window. Because I would say, yeah, if it's them
against whatever team no one cares that much about in
the South, it's an easy Monday night football game because
it's big ratings. That's kind of what it's been. So yeah,

(15:23):
I have a hard time. I think it's borderline one.
They haven't been in the conference championship in two and
a half decades, and then when they still have this
in the back. I mean they have two. Even if
you give them the Arizona game, weird loss to a
bad team, they had two real games against Buffalo and
against San Francisco with a lot of hype coming into
the game. They had momentum coming into the game, and
they got destroyed. I don't know what the final score

(15:46):
is of those two games combined, but it feels like
negative sixty plus points on their side of the ledger.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, it's just it's one of those things. Dallas is
very much a momentum team. You know, Nick Saban's team
Alabama have never been like he can just certain teams
have the ability to flip at halftime and it doesn't matter.
Dallas always feels like there's a way they play and
when they get when they get, when you get them
off their block off platform, they can unravel, especially away

(16:15):
from home. It's a young team, there's a lot of emotion.
I still think they're fine. I want to pivot to
Miami destroying the Jets today because that's who Dallas plays next,
and I think Dallas will handle Miami. But and I
think we both feel the same about Miami. They're electric,
they're fun. A Dolphins team that has a speedboat offense
is always good for the NFL period. I just like,

(16:36):
like I've said this before, there are certain college football
programs that just they make the sport bigger, you know.
And I think Miami, you get that wild aqua water
a playoff game in January, great weather, scoring points. But
the Jets thing is interesting, John, because this offense. Neither

(16:56):
one of us loves Zach Wilson. I think he's probably
a backup in this league, but Nat Hackett has not
elevated him. And some of this is on Aaron's buddy
And there was a couple of weeks ago. Alan Wizard
was a healthy scratch and at the time, I thought,
is that they're sending a message like Aaron, you know,
we got to play the best players. This can't be

(17:17):
about Aaron. This is a bad old line. Matt Hackett
to me has to go. I mean, if you despite
what happened to Denver, they're a different offense. Without Matt
Hackett the Jets things going to be fascinating. The team
looked like it quit today, was not prepared today. So
you run. You're a former scout, you run the Jets.

(17:37):
I mean I move off Hackett. I draft another quarterback,
probably third, fourth, fifth round, not first or second. They
need a left tackle regardless, They've got to get left
tackle solved. What do you do with the Jets going forward?

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, I thought today Fangio was trying to end his career.
I mean, that's the way it looked. Fangio made it
look like he didn't belong on the same field. Coaching
against him.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
That Miami defense coming off a short week and in
the first half, they couldn't gain a yard. They had
negative yards in the first half. And this Dolphins defense,
Zach Thomas and some of their great players aren't walking
through that door. This is a pretty average personnel team.
I just think when you're beholden to Aaron Rodgers, are
you fire and Hackett? Like I don't know if sala

(18:21):
that's ultimately this is where their organization is all out
of whack, right, Like the coach isn't really in charge anymore,
even the GM this quarterback who keep this story the
running thing about him coming back, Like what are we
talking about? And then I have a hard time seeing
them firing him. Now, if I was the owner, I
would like to bring in a real coordinator because I

(18:41):
think most people around the league don't think Nathaniel Hackett's
very good offensive coordinator. And today he was Today was embarrassing.
It really was. It's one thing to lose Miami's better
than you, it's another thing for it to look like that.
I mean, they're coming up, Miami's coming off a short week,
one of the worst losses, like statistically in like NFL history,
three minutes fourteen points is like unheard of, and for

(19:03):
it to look like that, and like you said, the effort,
the quitting Zach did get knocked out. And you know,
I think Zach. The problem with Zach is he can
have the half where you're like, God, this guy's really talented,
and then he comes right back and he looks like
a third stringer. But I'm with you, Hackett has been
an utter disaster because we are seeing so many quarterbacks
around the league that aren't starting quarterbacks that have real

(19:24):
offensive coordinators, whether it's Zach Taylor's crew, whether it's Shane Stiken,
whether it's all these guys that are making these players
Kevin O'Connell looks serviceable, and they get to these points
where they can't even think about moving the ball until
the game's so out of hand and all of a
sudden you get the hallow yards when you're down thirty
to nothing. But I do not think that it's an

(19:46):
option from the head coach or the GM to fire him,
because I don't think Aaron's gonna want that. And once
you put all your chips on this guy, you kind
of like, to me, the bringing in the Randall Cobbs
and the Lizards, like those days are over. But I
I think I want to play for this guy. I
still think Aaron has that juice right. He gave you
the pay cut, and I'll be stunned if he goes, Yeah,

(20:08):
get rid of him bringing any guy you want. That's
not really how he's operated.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
You know, it's interesting with Aaron. I Aaron. I'm not
insinuating that he doesn't watch film, but I've been told
he's not as devoted to it as Brady or a Manning.
He's just not or Russell Wilson. He's not as devoted
to film that Aaron's gonna kind of want to do
what Aaron's gonna want to do. I'm not saying he's lazy,
but I've talked to a couple star quarterbacks in the

(20:35):
league and I remember years ago. I don't want to
give too much away, but it was somebody connected to Aaron,
and they're like, listen, man, he's not sitting in his
house tonight breaking down a bunch of film. You know,
he could be watching something on Netflix. And and maybe
some of that is because he's so gifted.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Those guys couldn't write.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
And so does Aaron want to Does he want to
learn a new offense at this point?

Speaker 2 (20:59):
No chance, I mean, I'm not none.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
That's my takeaway. So Aaron, if you go up to
him and say we got to get a new ac
Aaron doesn't far of at the end of his career,
didn't want to Aaron at the end of his career.
I don't think Aaron wants to learn new offense. Is
there a possibility that Woody Johnson sala these guys next year?
I mean, if I'm Sala and I have any choice,

(21:22):
I'm not tying my career to that offensive coordinator. Do
you think there's any chance they would just blow it
up and draft a quarterback?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I mean you have moments where you watch today you go,
could this owner just lose it and fire everybody and
just say, you know the history of the NFL, the
players don't dictate the terms. Even Tom Brady was shown
the walking papers in New England, right, So this is
and the Jets are historically dysfunctional. What's this thirteenth straight
years now no playoffs? Yeah, like they're just what are

(21:51):
They're gonna win six games? So at any moment, these owners,
we know money's not an issue, and we know patience
is not something that a lot of these guys have,
especially the losing owners. So I think everything's on the
table because what's what's Aaron gonna say to Woody? Right? Like,
I still signed the check. So, yeah, you gave me
some money back, and yeah, we brought you here to
work with this guy. But I don't think Wood he's

(22:13):
shown to be like the Rooneys and see something out
and in fairness has Robert Sala and this group really
earned like the benefit of the doubt that they know
what they're doing. I like Robert sal seems like a
great guy, was a good defensive serminator. By no means
would I put a lot of money on investing on
him as being like some the next five years, be
a successful head coach. He has not shown anything even remote.

(22:35):
He doesn't know anything with offense, so he's very beholden
to the coordinator. He hired his buddy Lafleur, that failed.
Now he hired Rogers' buddy. That's been an utter disaster because,
like we said, even Rogers gets hurt four plays in,
you should still look consistently a lot better than you've looked.
Just some innovation, just some being able to move the ball.
They consistently have halves that I would say the worst

(22:57):
in the NFL. Them in Carolina Carolinas, I mean the
worst team we've seen in the while, them in Carolina
worst offenses. Just I tests, I would imagine the stats
back it up as well.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, so I think I think there's a lot of
different options. There's a lot of options to the Jets.
I would go get left tackle. If you start looking
at the mock drafts right now, they have a chance
to get the number one or number two left tackle,
and despite who your quarterback is, you just have to
get one of them. I'm not putting Aaron out there
with their current situation, but there's a lot of things

(23:29):
on the board for the Jets. Now. I want to
talk about a team that's not very good, but I
find fascinating. The Cleveland Browns beat the Chicago Bears. Almost
didn't that Hail Mary should have been caught by movie crazy.
But the Bears defense is interesting because they had what
three picks today, They're playing very well, their secondary and

(23:51):
linebacker crew very well. Matt Eberflews over the last five weeks.
He's a defensive coach that defense. Now that they've got
Montese sweat, they've got a great corner. You look at
it and you're like, Okay, they've been in this system
a couple of years. I'm not sure I can fire him.
That looks like he knows his side of the ball.
And I've said this before when McDermott was getting crushed.

(24:13):
Our take was always sort of listen, we don't know
if he has vision, but he's obviously a good detail guy.
He's Chuck Knox. He'll clean it up. He knows his side.
He's just not a visionary. Eber Flues may not be
a visionary. I can't fire him. The defense looks absolutely
legit despite losing today. They did their job. But the
question becomes with Justin fields. He again today, he makes plays.

(24:36):
He had a touchdown drop by a tight end Robert Tanyan.
But he doesn't win enough games. I don't want to
hear that. You know, winning's not a quarterback stat. He
doesn't win enough. I still think at times he doesn't
see the field. He can be a tatty erratic. I
move off him. But boy, when I go to Twitter
and I hear these Chicago fans, there's a lot of love.

(24:57):
You know. There's a difference they always say with coordinators,
John calling plays, just calling plays or really calling a game.
Mcveigh's calling a game. A lot of guys call plays.
There's also a difference as a quarterback just making incredible
plays and managing a game like mahomes with an occasional
great play. I kind of feel like justin Fields is
just a series of plays. That's how it lands for me.

(25:19):
I would move off him. I think you could send
him to Atlanta and get a second two seconds. What
would you do with Fields?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, I mean I haven't changed one iota, no matter
how many awesome plays he makes with his legs in Maunie,
how many great throws he makes. I mean that heyl
Mary today was the thing of beauty right that Oh
York on it. The way he puts you right there
in the middle. Thing. His his physical gifts are elite.
But to me, he's been like he's not coming. He's
not gonna be the Chicago Bears quarterback next year. I

(25:48):
actually think though he's earned we keep talking about every
week a lot of credit, showing a lot of mental
toughness and even just subtle improvements. And there are we
keep talking about Atlanta because you know he's front played
at Georgia for a split second. Makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
But they need a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
They're gonna be other teams that need quarterbacks. Like I
watch New England their quarterbacks. It could be a bitting war. Maybe,
like you said, it ends up going from a couple
of weeks ago, like maybe get a third now, maybe
get a couple twos. Who knows. So it seems like
a good guy. People like them. Teammates are rallying around him.
But to me, you're not passing on the number one
overall pick New. I do think it's a big question though,
with the coach, because at one point in time you

(26:22):
look up at seventeen to seven, they're beating the shit
out of the Browns like it's gonna be difficult now,
a little like the Jets, kind of just functional organization
they have, you know, a former Big ten commissioner who's
trying to get power. Is the GM gonna stay? What's
really going on? Owners old school? So I still think
a lot of stuff's on the table there. But eba
Flus is proven to be a really good defensive coach

(26:44):
this year. Yes, I mean their defense is vastly improved. Listen. Yeah,
I was critical of the sweat thing today. He was dominant.
He looked like Nick Boster, Miles Garrett. But do you
want him to be your head coach with a young
quarterback moving forward, and do you just give them, well,
we'll give him one more year, and then you're firing
them a year in to your rookie quarterback. But I
don't think that you get the opportunity with Carolina to

(27:07):
get the number one overall pick and then pass on it.
I just think, especially with a guy who's really really talented,
some years, one hundred percent, you would just roll it
through another year. With Fields, I don't think you do
it this year.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Also, they have two firsts, a third, two fourth, and
a fifth. You could absolutely replace your second round pick.
You can get a second for justin Fields. So now
I've got two first, a second, a third, two force.
That's potentially you know, that's you're talking six really good players.
And it's interesting they have good players on the roster
now too. They have a number one receiver, they have

(27:40):
a left, they have two tackles. Yea, they have Caleb Williams.
I even like their offensive coordinator. I know, you know,
we always blame the offensive coordinator, but they've they've got
their pieces here. I'm never gonna love their ownership, right,
I'm never gonna love it. I would prefer an offensive
coach but they've got the tight ends, a number one receiver. Now,
they have a dominant guy up front. Defensively, they have

(28:03):
a star corner Johnson, they have incredibly Now they're expensive
but active linebackers playing very well. So I'm with you.
I just think you can talk yourself into a lot
of things. But the Houston Texans are a different team
because of C. J. Stroud. Yeah, okay, Like it changes

(28:25):
the dynamic. And if you don't have a star offensive
coach like a Shanahan, like a McVeigh or a Shane
Steichen and the Chicago doesn't, then you need a star quarterback.
It just changes the entire temperature of the franchise. And
I like Justin, but I think it now becomes people
trying to talk themselves into him instead of just going,

(28:45):
we don't win. There's too many turnovers. He's been banged
up by the way in his career, he's struggled to
have a full season without missing a game. I think
it's time.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Well, for example, watching Arizona and the Niners today, Arizona's
team's terrible. I mean, their rosters really bad. That quarterback's
a real big talent. He's not big, he's small, but
he is really really talented. I think if you're the Bears,
like if you put him on the Bears with the
roster they had, like Kyler Murray and I think, you
know CAYLEB Williams kind of not his fast version of Kyler,

(29:14):
but enormous arm accurate. I think you immediately have a
chance to be competitive next year, right, especially if you
hit on some other picks that they they they're going
to be a fascinating offseason team. To me, it just
starts with the coach, and I think I think you
got to move on. I give him a lot of
credit for this, because it felt like at one moment
a couple of months ago, the ship was going to sink,

(29:36):
and eber flews to me as an immediate like is
he the number one defensive coordinator option on the open market?
But I would try to get an offense. I mean,
I still think Jim Harbaugh makes a lot of sense there.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, all right, let's and there's a lot of different
things to talk about here. Let's I want to talk
a little bit about green Bay. So we all kind
of fell in love with green Bay and then they
come out today, the Packers, and they don't now I
will say Jordan Love and the reed. The wide receiver

(30:08):
from Michigan State, Jaden Reid had a one of the
better throws and catches on the season today. But I'm
gonna look up. I'm gonna look up something very quickly.
What do we do with Green Bay? Now? So Baker
Mayfield and that defense, Joe Berry's defense. Baker had three
hundred and eighty yards, four touchdowns, and a couple of

(30:30):
weeks ago, I kind of felt like I really like
this team, and then as I watched them today, I
was like, no, I really do like this team. They
need a defensive coordinator change, but I wonder I see
it with Green Bay. I think there's a lot there.
I think they're such a young team, Like sometimes you'll
watch a team and you're like, they're just a year away.
They are a bunch of kids. It was we probably

(30:52):
should have thought that with Josh Allen his first big year,
Like what do we do it? We're falling in love
with this boxer who doesn't have a jab, Like they're
just big. I watched Green Bay and I like sort
of the direction they're going. But today to get gashed
by Tampa, am I over my skis on Green Bay.
Are they just actually a pretty average football team today?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
I had the Bears on one screen in Green Bay
and another. I thought, if you could combine the two,
take the green Bay offense and the Bears defense, No
one want to play him in the playoffs, right, I
mean they got I think the average age of the
receivers are twenty three. Obviously, the running backs are good.
Lafleur's a good coordinator. Love is dramatically improved over the
course of the year. I mean, Joe Barry has been
a guy they've talked about in Green Bay. Let's face it,

(31:32):
this goes back to the McCarthy era. Their defenses have
just not been good on all their playoff teams, and
this team's not going to go to the playoffs more
than likely. But their defense to day with Swiss cheese,
and they've invested a ton of picks. They spend a
bunch of money. They are not physical, They don't make
open field tackles. Their dbs don't make any plays. I mean,
Baker Mayfield. They have skill guys, right, Mike Evans good player,

(31:54):
god Win good player there. Running back White I don't
know that much about him, but he's a talented player
annihilated Green Bay. So it's this. You go to an offseason,
you invest in a new defensive coordinator, maybe you get
eber Flus, Maybe you get you know, if Todd Bowles
is available, if they fire him intent you know, you
get Dennis Allen if he gets fired in New Orleans.
Whoever doesn't make and get the top guy because Joe

(32:15):
Barry was Lafour's buddy from the Rams, and I think
sometimes the Shanahan guys. This happens a lot in college.
You kind of hire the guys you know and listen.
People like the guy, but he's a position coach. You
put him at defensive coordinator. It's been an embarrassment. Now
you could argue maybe it's the players. Maybe their players
are a little overrated, but today was really bad because

(32:36):
their offense has played, for the most part, really really
well in winning football. I mean last week the Veto
ran for seventy yards on them in big spots on
Monday Night football. It was the defense. This is this
isn't Kyler Murray or Lamar Jack. You can't let Tommy
DeVito have seven carries for seventy yards in big spots,
picking up big first downs. So yeah, at the end

(32:56):
of the day, their special teams let him down. A
couple of years, their defense let him down. I think
Lafleur has to find a way to button up his
operation because clearly he can handle the offense and they've
always been able. Going back to Ted Thompson, find guys
in the draft, the Jordy Nelson's, the Drivers, the DeVante.
That's never going to be their problem. Quarterbacks. Hell, they
can find those guys. They might be the Steelers of

(33:19):
the quarterbacks, right, the Steelers with wide receivers, then with quarterbacks.
But defensively, this is the best. The Niners defense is good.
That's the Eagles problem right now. How do you take
them seriously as a Super Bowl contender if their defense
is going to be a problem, right, and it's the
big offseason question mark, will they fire his friend, which
sometimes can be hard in football, and then will you
go out and pay a top defense? I mean, Vick

(33:39):
Fangil costs five million dollars, Yeah, that's what it costs.
These guys in the SEC make a couple million dollars.
The defensive coordinator. Yeah, this is not You're not hiring
a six hundred and fifty thousand dollars defensive coordinator here.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah that's UCLA.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
So it is interesting though, because the best quarterback is
winning all these divisions almost down the line. Baker Mayfield's
the best quarterback in this division. He was a number
one pick. Nothing against Derek Carr. I defended him for years,
but my ship has sailed When a coach takes him
out in the red zone for Taysom Hill. You know,
it's like, all right, you're telling me something. So Baker's

(34:14):
the best quarterback, probably most talented quarterback in the division.
Tampa has a chance to win this division. And now
they're going to draft near you know, at the bottom
third of the first round. You're not getting your quarterback.
You'd have to wholesale sell it. And my takeaway with
performances like this from Baker, if it's a reasonable contract,
is it the craziest thing to say he's the best

(34:37):
quarterback in the division. We can get him for twenty
eight million or whatever it would be. Wouldn't have to
pay thirty eight forty eight We're not going to pay that.
Baker probably you're you know, Baker's now no state tax. Tampa.
Good receivers. Not dysfunctional Cleveland. Tampa is actually a highly
functional team. I mean they've drafted very well for years.
When I covered him with McKay, they drafted well. They've

(34:58):
always had they've had good goach good players. They really
have not done the quarterback position particularly well. But you
go from Tommy and now you go to Baker a
number one pick. Does Baker have a chance this year
they draft a quarterback fourth round, you just get another year.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah. To me, Baker's like a one year, fifteen million
dollars a year guy. I think this year is like
one four, one five. Now to me, I can't give
him twenty five to thirty million dollars because he's had
a lot of games, and ultimately me, he's like a
fringe backup, probably somewhere in the twenties. But he has
the talent. When he looks good, he looks like a
legitimate starter. But then next week he'll go struggle to

(35:33):
throw for one hundred and fifty you know yards. So yeah,
probably roll it back, especially if you're drafted twenty help.
You could bring him back on a one year fifteen million,
one year twelve million dollars and still draft a guy
at twenty. If you like him, he kind of becomes
your version of Gino Smith because the one thing you
gotta givehim a lot of credit. Colin is unlike Cleveland,
where everyone was like kind of over him. They like

(35:54):
him there. Jason Leisman outspoken. The players like him, so listen.
Men mature a little later sometimes, and he leads him
to the playoffs be big for him. It'd be big
for Todd Bowles. I mean, it'd be a pretty big moment.
Back to back playoffs, even if it's a shitty division.
That's that's back to back home playoff games for the ownership.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Okay, so Atlanta doesn't have a quarterback even if they
went and got Justin Field. Ridder's awful bake. Yeah, Ridder's awful.
But Justin Fields has not proven to be a winning
quarterback yet. Derek Carr Saints are tied to that for
two more years. So Baker's more talented. Throw over the.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Football Caroline is a disaster disaster.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
So my takeaway is I'd roll the dice with Baker
one more year. He's still be the best quarterback of Monivation.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
I think he'll be. I think he'll be back. Jason
light likes him a lot.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah, and there you know there is something. There is
something about Baker is that if you have Baker, there
is a certain edge like he does bring. People think
I hate Baker. I really don't. I've had experiences with
people that know him. I like Baker. I think Baker.
I've always said he's one of the thirty two best
quarterbacks in the planet. There's no question in my mind.

(37:00):
He's a very emotional player. So he gets down on himself.
I mean he can do the roller coaster. I mean
he can be brilliant and awful in two drives. So
he's very led by emotion. And you know, certain guys
are certain guys are not. But I think Baker. I
think I would I draft another quarterback third fourth round.
I would absolutely have no problem rolling the dice. And

(37:23):
to your point, Bowls does a pretty good job, Todd
Bows does a pretty good job on the defensive end.
Wouldn't shock anybody if they went to Detroit and won, No,
it wouldn't shock me. Like I don't think it shocked
me if the Rams went to Dallas in one I
mean this year in the NFC, outside of the Niners,
who do I.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Love well to me today's news on the Eagles and listen,
I've been in that building. It can be tight. You know.
It's just an intense coming into this season beside the Chiefs.
To me, the Eagles and the Niners, it was kind
of super Bowl or bust. You have a couple of
weeks like that. All of a sudden, they're making a
defensive coordinator change in December seventeenth. What's their record? Ten

(38:00):
and two? It's pretty crazy, So they're not feeling great.
The Lions at any moment can look like they did
on Saturday night or look awful. Beside the forty nine ers,
everyone in the NFC is a complete coin flip. You
wouldn't be shocked if anyone beats another team. We don't
even know. I mean, the amount of different playoff teams
that could get in, it wouldn't shock you. If the
Saints and Tampa get in, it wouldn't shock you. Neither

(38:21):
gets you know, it's like, who knows how this whole
thing's gonna play out. You can't trust any of these teams.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
So now let's move to a Saturday special. Denver getting
buried by Detroit. So I was thinking about this watching
Detroit so they're a very good Dome team. Goff's a
very good dome quarterback. He's had at least two touchdown
passes in five straight indoor games. So they could potentially
play Tampa warm Weather at home, Dallas warm Weather rams

(38:49):
so far. So there's a lot of matchups. Obviously, Philadelphia,
a team struggling, is not where they'd be at their
best on the road cold Weather. But I'll tell you,
in most organizations, John the quarterback and the coach, it's
the star. I think the front office for the Lions
is their star, Laporta, Gibbs. Everybody knocks some of their

(39:13):
draft picks. These guys are unbelievable. I look at that
roster and it's very rare, John, that a team wins
the division and scores a lot of points and we
don't look at their coach or their quarterback as driving it.
I think this is one of the better front offices
in the NFL drafting the last three years.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Totally agree. I mean Brad Holmes that draft day trade
he made to get Gibbs and then ultimately Laporta has
a chance to go down. It's like a franchise altering move.
The other thing is because he was a Rams guy
and knew Jared Goff. The forty nine ers offered the
same deal to the Detroit Lions for Matt Stafford, but
it was Jimmy Garoppolo. He said, no, I'd rather have

(39:52):
the same deal with the Rams and Jared Goff and
a lot of people at the time. I mean, the
way we're all talking about Jared Goff now is a
lot different than people were talking about couple of years
ago when he was about to get traded, and that
honestly has changed their franchise because we talked about Baker
and a lot of these guys being these bridge quarterbacks.
Jared Goff is more than that now. Is he a
top five guy? Of course not. This is he a
top ten guy depending on the week. Most times he's

(40:13):
somewhere between like twelve and fifteen. But for them in
that dome, they also play Minnesota, which is also a
Dome team, pretty good spot. So yeah, that trade. A
lot of people on the internet crushed. You can't take
a running back. It's like the draft was awful and
that running back and this is what Dan Campbell said
at the time, who was with Sean Payton, was like
his mentor in New Orleans. It reminded us of Alvin Kamara,

(40:35):
and you're watching him last night. He's like a Christian
mccafee Avin Kamar. He can catch the ball and Laporta
looks like Kelsey meets Kittle, So he is abs.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
You know, tight end. I was told this years ago
by an executive. He said, tight End's tough for rookies.
Even ken Caid and Buffalo can disappear because for the
first time in your life, you're gonna be asked to
block seventeen weeks. Now, certain programs like Utah asked from Kincaid.
Utah ask your tight ends to block. Not all of

(41:05):
them do. Hell, some of these programs in college don't
ask their offensive lineman to block much. R it's just
pushing guys around. So tight ends come to the NFL
and it's John You know this. It's a two three
year process to get these guys ramped up. They go
up against and coaches like McVeigh Higbee has to block.
You're not on a field if you don't block.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
So why these Iowa tight ends have so much success.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
That's right. They're physical and that's a great point. So
in the NFL, tight ends are asked to block. It
usually is one of those positions. To think, that guy
was so good in college, what's happened? He's getting locked
up sixty snaps. So when I watch a tight end
come into the NFL and he's a top three to
four tight end in the league, you're looking this is

(41:50):
like an Antonio Gates moment or a Winslow moment or
a Kittle moment, where it's like, this is not a
fluke to be that good as a rookie tight end,
you are completely different than the rest of the league
at that space. I mean, that's what I see.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Well, he's not only a star. That position doesn't cost
much money. So once you extend them, they don't cost
what wide receivers costs. They cost half as much. Right,
the top wide receivers make thirty million dollars. Kittle Kelsey
they make fourteen to fifteen million dollars. So the other thing,
it's an incredible value on your salary cap. So when
you hit a home run. If you draft Brock Bauers

(42:23):
in this upcoming draft in the top ten and then
he becomes a top five player, he actually becomes a
top five player in the league. Who's cheap, so it
enables you to even buy and spend more money on
other players. So from an economical standpoint on the salary cap,
you could argue it's the best value that if you
get a star middle linebacker because they don't cost what
defensive ends or left tackles or quarterbacks cost. But Fred Warner,

(42:45):
what's his impact? I don't know. It's like a ten
out of ten, right, what's Dronk or Kittle or Kelsey
when they're on no one can stop them, but they don't.
You don't have to pay him this much. To me,
what I also think Dan Campbell, if they win eleven
or twelve and win the division, I think he has
to be the coach of the year. When you just
look at the Detroit Lions in ninety years, they've won

(43:05):
double digit games nine times. For example, Andy Reid when
he wins double digits this year, has eighteen double digit
win seasons in his career. So the Lions, like, if
you go, if Josh Levy, the dude that just from
Oklahoma and went to Mississippi State, if they become a
perennial playoff team, we go, that's incredible, right, But you
don't get as much credit when you do it at Georgia,
Ohio State what you're doing in Detroit. And you can say,

(43:27):
well equality in the NFL, that's not true with the Lions.
They never win, and that he won nine games last year.
He's gonna win eleven or twelve and win the division
pretty easily. And they're just good. Like you said, they're
gonna be hard to beat at home, and they're gonna
get a home playoff game because in a dome, they're
very comfortable and they're very fast. Like how do you
cover all these guys? They actually have a lot in
common with like the forty nine ers all their position,

(43:48):
they all speed guys. They all can break tackles. How
good Saint Brown? Their defense is pretty questionable. But if
you can score thirty five points, like try to beat
me well.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
And also Dan's created a culture. They're a kind of
relentless attacking team. Is he a great schematic coach? I
doubt it, but he has created a culture and for
years that's what Detroit lacked. They had players Hell Stafford,
Barry Sanders, Calvin Joons.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Dominican Sue. I mean, they've had good guys.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
They've always they're like Tampa. You know, they've always had
good players. I do want to segue to Sean Payton
and blowing up with Russell Wilson. So I think I
told you this that I think the frustration for Sean
Payton with Russell Wilson. He's not as athletic as Taysom
Hill and he's not as good a pocket passer as

(44:36):
Drew Brees. So he feels like, you know what I mean,
Remember when he signed that extension for Taysom Hill, we
all went, Sean, you're crazy. Sean wants hyper athleticism or
hyper accuracy, and with Russell it's a lot of dink
and dunk underneath stuff. And he's not as twitchy as
he was a couple years ago. He's clearly a franchise quarterback.
But he went off on him earlier in the year

(44:58):
on the thing around his risk right, like he wasn't
learning to place. He went off on him again. And
I always say this when you're going If you go
to a party and a couple's arguing, like how bad
is it in the car ride home? How bad is
it at home? If you can't hide the anguish, Sean
is blown up with Russell at the podium on the sidelines,

(45:18):
and maybe Sean's more emotional than much coaches most coaches,
but when I look at Russell and Sean, I don't
think it works. I just don't think it works. I
don't think Shawn's ever going to buy in. I think
he's done the best job he feels he can do.
But I think he's a difficult player based on the
fact that Sean feels he's getting a bee guy at
both passing and athletically.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Well, to me, the one thing with Sean Payton is
he has obviously Bill Parcell's guy. He's got some Belichick
Walsh inm He's pretty cutthroat. So to me, if he's
over him, he will not be on this team next year.
And it's all It's been well reported on the money
how they can eat some of it and just kind
of be rid of the contract and have it directly
impact their salary cap for one year and then just

(46:00):
to be somewhat rid of themselves from it. But I'm
with you. I mean, he even said I was yelling
at him just because I was frustrated everything he really
wants to yell at him all the time, I would imagine, right,
and he's let's face it, when you go into a
new relationship and your previous relationship is the best relationship
you're probably ever gonna have. He compares everything to Drew
Brees and Russell just strictly is not that from And listen,

(46:23):
Russell's not a bad guy, not getting any trouble. He
works hard, but ultimately this is like it's a result
oriented business. So all that stuff's great, but then we
play the games, so do you get the job done?
And last night they weren't even close. Now, the Detroit
Lions are just a better football team. They have much
more talent on offense than that team has on offense.

(46:45):
But there's been countless times where they have won in
almost in spite of him. I mean, their defense is
played beside last night or two nights ago, a lot
better over the course of their run. But if I
was a betting man right now, Russell Wilson will not
be on the team now. And know how they facilitate that.
They eat money, they trade them, they cut them. How
it goes down. But we've seen enough. Sean Payton earned

(47:07):
a lot of credit because at one point early on
in the season, like is this gonna work? And then
he got the thing clearly knows what he's doing. If
he wants them gone, he will be gone. Because that's
how the NFL works, right. This is what we talk
about with Rogers the quarterback, that the players don't get
to dictate any of this stuff. It's a management leak, right,
the gms, the coaches because the owners kind of let
them do. The owners don't know anything, right, And that's

(47:28):
one theory I had with the Chargers, and you see
this with the Giants is when you get the ownership
who has family members in the front office, in the
scouting department, Like I like my owners to be like
wheeling and dealing with business stuff. Even Jerry he's the GM,
he's not watching any film. He's doing deals right, and
Steven that they're making money. But you know, the Spanos
family has their kid who's involved that he's a good,

(47:50):
smart guy. But you get involved in football and there's
too much crossover. The best owner Clark Hunt, Andy Veach,
you cook right the craft for twenty five years, Bill
do do, Glorie Howie, Sirianni, Doug Andy, make me money,
win games and all just that it's a unique business,
right because you have this multi billion dollar asset. Yet

(48:10):
the most important guy in your organization, the coach or
the GM or the mix of the two of them,
you don't really know anything about besides like being a fan.
So you can't really even if your expertise, like David
Teppery's this great all time market guy, can't footwork. When
I see him telling coaches about footwork or the quarterback,
I'm like, they're in trouble, right, you just And that's
that's why this business is so Once the owner gets involved,

(48:33):
it always cracks because most owners, like are not Al
Davis in the eighties. They know football, right, They just don't.
And I think you're gonna see with Walmart, these guys
are very successful and they're just gonna let Sean Payton
do whatever he wants to do. They're paying him ninety
million dollars to do that. So Sean Payton wouldn't shock
me if he basically gets a new GM this offseason
and the Russell Wilson, I would imagine it's gonna be

(48:55):
one of the biggest stories heading in a free agency
what he's gonna do with him?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Right, Let's talk Patriots, Kansas City, Kansas City struggled in
the first half, pulled away. So like one of the
overreaching stories here is we'll get to the Belichick stuff
in a second, his future, but a Kadarius Tony had
another ball, totally catchable. Office hands intercepted Mahomes reacts viscerally
on the sidelines and I said it this week on

(49:21):
FS one. It doesn't really matter because Rashi Rice is
their number one at receiver. Kelsey's their number one. They
need Tony Sky, Moore and Watson are not game breakers.
Tony's twitchy. Can you trust him? No, And as we
talked earlier on this podcast, it does feel like it's
becoming Buffalo's year. You know, Joe Burrow's gone. Maybe it's Baltimore.

(49:42):
We'll see tomorrow night when they play. But we don't
trust the Jags. Chargers we thought would be good. They're
not Denver, probably a year away. So you have this
Kansas City team that's still absolutely viable in the AFC
right now. They don't have to go through the Niners.
They don't, you know, going on the road and playing
Dallas would be no fun for this team, or Detroit

(50:03):
for that matter. They already lost to them at home
this year. At the Lions, But I look at Kansas
City and I think it's one of these things. I
think they're transitioning stage one of the dynasty of stage two,
and you generally don't win in a transition year. But
as I watched them today, I thought to myself, they
got about four games to figure this stuff out. I
think Rashi Rice and Kelsey Patrick completely trusts. I don't

(50:27):
think they have anything else there. They got a little
bit of a pop from the running back, their former
first round.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Clyde made some plays today.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yeah, I still buy Kansas City. I still think they
can get to the AFC Championship, although after Buffalo's performance,
I'm not sure where are you on the Chiefs.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Definitely, I mean I think they are as every bit
as viable as any team in the AFC because their
defense on any given game can hold you in the teams.
And to me, if you can do that, they've been
winning like that this year, right, I mean, they're going
to get to leven wins, winning a bunch of games
scoring between twenty and twenty five points. They not beholden
like the Lions, for example, of we got to score

(51:03):
thirty four points to win the game. Like they've been
used to winning some nineteen seventeen games, right, some twenty
three twenty one games. Even today, How are you even
in this game? With the peat? They just do not
run away from me anymore. Though those days are over.
I think they gotta regret, you know, passing on Laporta
last year, because you put a guy like him. If
they would have drafted, you know, an offensive playmaker on

(51:24):
this team, just one more guy, they'd be right there.
Travis kelce I saw mentioned it to Jason on his
podcast that like, we like Tony, we seeing what he
does in practice. Like you said, they are beholden to
his skills because they don't have anyone else that can
do that. There's a reason they traded for him in
the middle of the season. But they're much better on defense.
You know that their talent on defense is better than
those early era on the Dynasty teams. So it's just

(51:46):
can the head coach, who's an all time great quarterback,
all time great, can they make enough plays? Can they
draw up enough stuff to just get over the hump
in some of these A lot of the Patriot teams
that won it, we're never the teams that look like
the ninety four nine ers or the ninety two Cowboys
on the roster. Wise, they just outrat they out coach you,
they out tough you, they outsmarted you. They didn't fuck up.
They didn't have a big penalty, Like that's a cowboy problem.

(52:08):
Like at any moment, you're like, oh, they could get
a fifteen yard penalty, they could do something stupid. They
did it today when they the guy ran into the plunter.
You know, you just never know the andy. They're gonna
have to be very buttoned up and they're just gonna
have to win. It's not gonna be pretty. They they
are not if they play Baltimore or the Bills or
any of these teams in the second or third round. Like,
I don't expect them to win like thirty to ten,
right right, You'll be on the edge of your seat

(52:29):
and it'll pull it out and it'll be like one
of the great victories of the era. And that's what
the Patriots had a lot of because they were not
running away once they played the better teams. And that's
this version this year. And I think I'm pretty confident
this offseason they can kind of have a Patriot type Hey, Mike, Evans,
you want to come here a little less money, We'll
get you a championship and then draft heavy and some
offensive skill guys like they always do. But I think

(52:52):
they're gonna be in the business the next couple of
years of doing what the Patriots did for a long time,
getting kind of the older veteran maybe take a little
less and have a chance to kind of just play
for a twelve thirteen win team. But they don't have
that guy right now.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah. And also the Patriots, their margins were always tight
except for the Randy Moss years, and they never won
Super Bowl st So the only time Newing the Blue
people's doors off was about a three year Randy period.
So if you go to the early and late stages,
Patriots won a lot of twenty seven twenty threes a lot,
and it was coaching and quarterback play and generally a

(53:27):
big defensive play late. So I think Kansas City's built
for an AFC championship and beyond. So let's wrap it
up with New England. So Tom Kern is a reporter
I've used for years. I trust him. He said, the
organization's made their mind up. I think it's time. I
think their tone deaf. It just doesn't work building a statue.

(53:47):
I don't you know. I was talking to somebody in
the league who I trust about the Chargers and they said,
you know, I'm not sure Bill would tolerate kids in
the front office. Like it just wouldn't work. And that's
the way the span else's work. Washington's got a lot
of money and they do have they do have weapons,
which he's not good at drafting, but they don't have

(54:09):
the quarterback. He's got a lot of property in Nantucket.
He's not good in the front office. He can't do
a parcels and go down to Miami, hire his coach
and do the drafting. That's not what Bill does. Like
that's that was parcels or Jimmy. I thought Jimmy Johns
would always come back and like do a front office
because Jimmy was such a great personnel guy. I always

(54:29):
feel I always felt Jimmy would say, I want to coach,
I want a life, Give me four or five million
bucks and I'll run the front office six million bucks.
He didn't. You want to fish And I get it.
But I can see Belichick just not coaching, can you no?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Because I've envisioned him as like an eighty three year
old coaching high school team, you know, coaching the kickers
and the punters. I think I remember being told a
long time ago by a guy in college football who's
close with Saban, and this was when USC was going
through the clay Heltons. It's like, could USC just offer
him amount of money he could never refuse? Kind of
like Texas tried, but even more. And he's like he

(55:07):
would never come to the West Coast. He's told people
like he's not honestly, the Austin, Texas was a little
too West coast he vibe for him. And when I
think Bill Belichick, I just think the Eastern Seaboard. You know,
his entire career has been spent there. It kind of
fits his personality. The type guys it's a little more gruff.
You can be an asshole, even separate from the organizational

(55:28):
set up with the Chargers. So I expect him, and
to me, I think he's earned the right. They should
fire him, like, not try to trade him, just have
a clean fire him. Let him choose his destination. You
shouldn't be worried about him going somewhere. Now I could understand,
like if the Bills fired McDermott. Would you want him
go into Division or the Jets, even though he hates

(55:48):
the Jets, But you never know, maybe out of spite.
He's kind of a spiteful guy. I think it's tricky
because he's earned them, him and Tom them so much money. Right,
he has been one of the great employees in the
history of America, and now he hasn't been the easiest
got to deal with. But he's put from the pocketbook.
So I expect him to go to Washington. That would
be my best guess would be the Washington Commanders. He's

(56:10):
their head coach and it probably you know, I don't
expect them to be some powerhouse and I don't think
he clearly is still a pretty good defensive coordinator. He
can bring Josh McDaniels with him, which I think makes
him a lot more desirable because it's pretty clear like
without Josh McDaniels, he's not exactly the same guy. Billy
O'Brien is not as good as an offensive coordinator as
Josh is. For Bill. But to me, the Washington Commanders,

(56:31):
doesn't it just make a lot of sense kind of
that region the area.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
They and they would pay him. They'd make him the
highest paid guy. They'd give him a five year, one
hundred million dollar deal and be public twenty million bucks
a year. By the way, DC, he would be able
to get on his private jet and go to Nantucket.
It's close. It would just for his lifestyle. By the way,
He's got places in Jupiter, Florida, Nantuckett, it's easy. It's
East Coast.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
I think Tomlin and listen, whether they fire him or not,
I think it's over a lot. Like Bill, their record
isn't as bad, but what are we watching? This team
is worse than they've been. Even if they end up
going nine and eight, that they stink. I mean, they
got work To me like Bill, To me, Tomlin has
a lot of similarities with Andy and McCarthy when they

(57:13):
both got fired in Philadelphia and Green Bay, and they
both resurrected their career other places. To me, he's a
huge personality, he's a big name. I actually think he
would make a lot of sense with the Chargers. He
just knows what he's doing. I heard you talking about
it on Friday.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
So let's do that. He needs right now, Chargers talk.
So this has been discussed, so I know two network
executives that would absolutely hire Tomlin tomorrow. For sure. He'd
be great on TV. But I do think the Chargers
make sense. He doesn't necessarily give a rip about personnel.

(57:50):
He would look up and go, here's here's what I
don't want. I won with a star quarterback. I don't
want to back up. You could get out of the
Kenny Pickett situation, which is weird. It's dicey because he's
a local kid. The Steelers don't want to send him shipping.
They're going to be totally sensitive with Kenny Pickett, and
he's just not He's just not good enough period. He's
like the twelfth best quarterback at thirteenth best quarterback in

(58:12):
the APC. Like, it doesn't work. I think it's a
time to exit. You leave, you got super Bowls, you
have the stories for a month, Networks vying him, vying form.
I don't think he wants control in the front office.
He won't get it. So I actually think Tomlin of
the Chargers makes a ton of sense.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Yeah, to me, we talk about the Charges a lot
like the Clippers. Well, what did Balmer do? He went
out and got Tylu a real coach. Now basketball's a
little different, But to me, there's a name recognition that
gives them some just headline power in Los Angeles, and
he's proven to be very serviceable. And to me, they
can't afford like Ben Johnson might go on to be

(58:50):
the next Shanahannah McVeigh, or he might just be like
the next Joe Judge or some other coordinator who flops.
They need to get a guy. That's why Belichick, Harbaugh
Tomlin to me, dan Quinn is a name, but he
was not that successful when Kyle Shanahan left him. Say
what you want about Tomlin. He's had a lot of
different coordinators and he's consistently won. I mean dan Quinn
bottomed out, you know. Tomlin never bottoms out, and he

(59:14):
just if you ask Andy Reid and Sean Payton, to
me the number one coach, they would not want to
go to the charge, would Belichick right, They probably don't
have to worry, and then it would be like Jim Harbaum,
like people that know what they're they would much rather
sign up for some coordinator who's just going to be
learning on the job, and that's what the Chargers. I'm
not confident that they're going to do any of this
because they have consistently shown two higher coordinators who are

(59:36):
just cheaper. I don't know how Dean Spanos, who has
gone through what he's gone through over the last decade
with the three different coaches, and what just happened on
Thursday night against Mark Davis. Say what you want about
Mark Davis, he at least tries to buy people. Josh McDaniels,
John Gruden. It hasn't worked, is blown up in his face.
But I give him effort credit, like he's willing to
spend I don't know the monopoly money that the league

(59:58):
gives him that the Niners and the Cowboys, you know,
and the Chiefs are generating on television right now. And
to me, that's what Dean Spander's like. This is not
money that he just has to earn on his own.
He gets handed to it from the league. So just
give out, you know, some twenty million dollar contract or
whatever Mike Comlin would cost if he's available, which I
kind of expect him to get fired and get a

(01:00:18):
real coach for the first time since the Marty Schottenheimer era.
Think about that. That's a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah, no, they they and I said this the other
day the Chargers need a culture creator. Mike McCoy, Anthony Lynn,
Brandon Staley, whether it's their persona, they're DNA. They're not
culture creator.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
They're position coaches. Colin, they're position coaches.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
And so to me, Harball's a culture creator. Belichick is
Tomlin is spend money. I mean, did you see what
the NFL handed each team this year revenue? Like when
it's all said, four hundred million, four hundred million dollars,
You're not going to pay a coach twelve and a half.
You've got to be kidding me. Look at what Peyton
has done to that shipwreck in Denver just twelve and

(01:01:03):
a half million bucks. You pay your quarterback thirty What
are we doing here? Like it just that this money
is the greatest thing to own in America outside of
maybe Google or Apple. Is an NFL team, just buy
a coach?

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Well, think about it. Your expense is what's the salary cap?
Two hundred and ten million dollars, So you have one
hundred and ninety million dollars. Your sales guys don't cost
that much money. Your your West Coast scout, I mean,
you have one hundred ninety million dollars, but that's year
after year, right, you know, one hundred and twenty five,
one hundred and fifty that's a lot. What's Dean Spanel's
doing with all this money? That's not even counting any

(01:01:38):
other money that they generate, but they are just unwilling
to spend it. And you just look at the NFL,
who are all the best coaches. They're all the guys winning.
John Harball makes a ton, Adie Reid makes a ton,
Kyle Shanan makes a ton. Right. I mean it's you
get what you in college. All the top guys make
a ton of money. Like that's just the going rate
for a coach. You cannot be at the bottom of
the wrong and expect to win and then complain about

(01:01:59):
it because they've been doing They've been spinning their wheels
in the same situation. From a coaching standpoint, I do
think it gets back to kind of their organizational philosophy.
A lot of cooks in the kitchen, so they they
got a lot. This month is a big time for
them just to do a little looking in the mirror
and like, do we really want to win or we
kind of want to do it our way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
John Middlecoff, the Voice of John Middlecoff three and out.
You see the hat, that's his podcast. It's he is
as good a voice on the NFL as there is
this industry. Every Sunday night we chop it up. It's
live on YouTube, becomes a podcast. John as always. We're
gonna be breaking down some college football games, probably next week.
It's great seeing you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Good seeing you too, Colin

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
The Volume
Advertise With Us

Hosts And Creators

Colin Cowherd

Colin Cowherd

Jason McIntyre

Jason McIntyre

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

24/7 News: The Latest

The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.

Crime Junkie

Crime Junkie

Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.