Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down the NFL schedule!
They start with a ridiculously easy schedule for the 49ers (3:30) and debate whether that gives Brock Purdy leverage in contract negotiations and whether Kyle Shannahan has been too involved with drafting (6:45).
They highlight the Chiefs schedule as being particularly brutal due to their weak offensive line and the elite pass rushes they’ll face (10:30) and the pressure NFC North teams will face (15:30).
They dive into the reports that Caleb Williams debated forcing his way out of Chicago drafting him (27:00) and why he’ll be better set up for success with Ben Johnson as head coach (33:30).
Finally, they discuss what the Steelers will do at quarterback if Aaron Rodgers decides to retire (34:45) and why that franchise has stagnated in recent years (38:00)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Scout three and Out podcast, let's talk some NFL schedule stuff,
and we'll do a half hour on this. I think
(01:05):
it's my first take is so I looked at the
Niner schedule and I knew it would be easy, and
then I watched the way it was laid out, and
I'm like, if you take out Stafford twice and C. J.
Stroud once, this is the weakest schedule in fifteen years.
The Atlanta Falcons had this schedule back in no, I
(01:27):
think it was twenty fifteen. It'd be ten years. So
it's the weakest schedule in a decade. And I would
I'll throw this at you. I said, if I was
John Lynch and looked at the schedule, I would sign
Brock pretty now because this schedule screams twelve and five,
thirteen and four, and right now he's coming off losing season.
So if you have any leverage, could I say, John,
(01:50):
it's the next month to two. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I mean, I think his we obviously spent so much
time talking about this. His whole thing is comparing himself
to other guys, and these recent contracts of guys like
Jordan Love who played eight games and got one hundred
and seventy five million, Tua who got one hundred and
sixty million Trevor Lawrence who got two hundred million dollars. Like,
he does have a leg to stand on, given that
(02:13):
he's played well and you know, been a part of
a team that was in a Super Bowl. But my
issue is, like that money's coming, Like he's getting the contract.
We don't know exactly one hundred and fifty million, one
hundred and eighty million, one hundred.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And thirty million.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm sure that's you pay him. Let's just say conservatively
fifty million dollars a year. Kyle is one of the
highest paid coaches at fifteen to eighteen million dollars a year.
If I'm paying my head coach and my quarterback close
to seventy million dollars a year at minimum, I don't
care who else is on the team because this roster
is not as good as it was a couple of
years ago. I need double digit wins. I mean, we've
(02:47):
seen it with the with the Rams last couple of years,
they found a way as they retooled. I would say
anything less than double digit wins. I have supported Kyle
thinking like, oh he's on the hot seat. That was
insane talk. But there is a contingent of the those
humans that exist over You know, Kyle can rub some
people the wrong way. I think he's a pretty elite coach.
He's proven that, but this is a big year for
(03:08):
him to Again, I don't need twelve thirteen wins. I
don't think the roster is quite as good. But if
the Ravens or the Bills or the Chiefs had this schedule,
we'd be talking like, can they run the table? Ten
wins minimum? I think is more than fair, and I
think that is going to be the expectation or things
have gone really really sour.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yeah, I said that if you gave Stafford Burrow, not
Burrow because Cincinnati I don't trust their front office and ownership.
But if you gave Josh Allen, Lamar Mahomes and I
think Stafford and McVeigh this, we would be talking about
thirteen or fourteen wins. I mean even Vegas would probably
put the over under at twelve to twelve and a half. So,
you know, I think one of the things that bothered
(03:45):
me John, I've said this, and this is my interpretation.
I could tell when Bill Belichick took over drafting with
the Patriots, he was drafting players who had plug immediate holes,
often reaching for people. General managers gen to have a
tend to have a a little bit of a longer vision.
I can tell when Pete Carolyn Seattle, I could tell
(04:06):
they were reaching on some players, and I'm like, that's
not John Snyder. Last couple of drafts when John's controlled
them have been excellent. I do feel like the last
couple of years, I felt like Kyle's had a lot
of say in drafting. I find their drafts for the moment,
not for the future. I Ricky Pierre Saliz like, you've
(04:28):
got Jennings and Deebo and Ayuk and Kittle and McCaffrey.
You've got enough pass catchers. That felt like a coach
who wanted a little you know, wanted to replace Debo.
That's what I see. I tend to be able to say, okay,
I can tell that to coach's draft or a coach
is putting pressure. I didn't like the Niners draft. I
thought they didn't attack the offensive line, which is a
(04:49):
huge issue. What did you view of their draft?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I've come to the expectations now Kyle's admitted, like, we
don't value offensive lineman unless we think you're like an
all time great. We'll pick a skill guy. We're definitely
a defensive lineman, which I'm four. But they just don't
draft offensive lineman, especially tackles. He's not going to draft
to tackle in the third round, which I think is insane.
I had a college scouting director because I was talking
(05:12):
a lot about this too during and before the draft.
How you know different personnel departments work, He says, you
can always tell when the coach is heavily involved because
they treat the draft. You can tell they're looking at
the depth chart. You know, scouts in front offices aren't
consumed with the depth chart because the depth chart, to
Kyle is Week one against Seattle. You know, John Lynch
and these like Michael Williams is a real pick, right,
(05:34):
the kid from Florigia. That's a big picture pick that
any team takes. That's not the depth chart. Whether you
had ten defensive ends or one, you have no problem
picking him. But like you said, Ricky Piersall, it's like, well,
you know this IU thing's going sour. We're already turning
on Deebo. Might we might trade him right now or
over the next year. That's a depth chart move. And
I think that's where you get into trouble. You know,
(05:56):
there's a balance of need and big picture, but coaches
are just oh, Kyle's Kyle's not worried about twenty twenty seven.
He's worried about this year trying to win eleven games
and be in the playoffs. And I don't blame him,
but that's why there's got to be a little separation
between church and state. You know. I look at the
Eagles have the most powerful GM. Look how they've drafted
and the coaching staff coach the players. It's gone pretty well.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, it's so. And I also think there are things.
I think Arizona is going to be a real team.
I think I think Seattle's roster is really impressive. I
think the Vikings will miss Sam Darnold. And I think
the Rams defense, I think it's the best young defense
in the NFL. So I thought last year was a
year where Arizona and the Rams over I mean I
thought the Rams overachieved a little. I thought the Arizona
(06:42):
wasn't quite there yet with a new coach, and I
thought Seattle with Gino Smith, had limitations at quarterback. I
think the division's much better. So yeah, I mean, so,
I just I just don't feel it. The schedules. It's
a save. I'll tell you that because I.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Do think this though, Colin, if you go, we do agree.
Kyle Shanahan has faults at times, is one of the
better coaches in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yes, listen.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Robert Sola, head coach Jets, not an easy spot, A
little over his head. Most people view him as an
excellent defensive coordinator. I don't know. I don't have the
spreadsheet because it's not public. I would imagine Kyle and
Robert Sala when you combine the head coach and defensive
coordinator beside like Andy and Spags, that there can't be
a higher paid combination. This is a coaching league, right
(07:28):
Because you talk a lot about this, the margins are small.
I think you've got to like your chances. Even if
you've got some now random players on the team that
their coach, their offensive and defensive coordinator. The guys calling
the place are really good. So I'm a little more
bullish now we're going to find out pretty quickly, like
if they've whiffed on some picks. I don't care if
you've got Bill Walsh and Belichick in his prime. You
(07:50):
can only do this is the NFL, Like you need
some of these guys to become players.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So I want to talk about Kansas City. So when
you have a dynas, every dynasty's got a weak spot.
Like when New England got into trouble was near the
end of the second dynasty when they just didn't have
enough receiver speed, when they couldn't separate. Tom had to
(08:15):
play perfect, nobody could get open. The famous sideline shot
of him screaming, somebody get open. That was the hole
in their dynasty. Outside of the Randy Moss years. You know,
they weren't electric down the field. It was more tight ends,
run game, Tom's efficiency, Tom's twenty three for twenty nine.
They just don't make mistakes. They beat you late. They
were never electric except the Randy Moss hears on the perimeter.
(08:38):
Kansas City's weakness has been immature wide receivers and offensive
line when they've been blown out, and it's only happened
a couple times, both in Super Bowls. They've had left
tackle issues or offensive line depth problems. They're just missing
good players. So I look at this year. Joe Tooney
was their best offensive lineman. He's not a replaceable. There's
(09:00):
nobody in the draft close. They're now going left tackle
for a guy that was a backup in San Francisco.
This is to me the weakest O line they've had
entering a season. Can they make a move at the
trade deadline, certainly possible. But if you go look at
their first ten games, John, even the bad teams they play,
the Giants now have Abdul Carter Dexter, Lawrence Tibodeau. On
(09:25):
the other side, the Raiders have Max Crosby the Broncos.
They're better than Broncos led the NFL in sacks. The
Jaguars have a good defensive front. I'm just mentioning the
games that look like wins. I looked at Kansas City
schedule early and I'm like they could have used some
of those games late, because you know, it takes a
while to create COH. You don't replace Joe Toney in
(09:47):
the preseason like you need snaps. I thought Kansas City
schedule was about as tough as the league deals to
to a Andy Reid Mahomes pairing.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well. I also think he'sier on players to play, you know,
games at noon in Kansas City than they have five
of their first eight games at prime time, and they
got to go to Bruzil, which I understand the international,
especially now with streaming the Brazil thing. I don't quite
get Colin going down a CYC. I don't quite understand
that market. But I'll say this about the Chiefs. Their
(10:21):
first round draft pick would have been a top ten
pick had he not torn his knee. Well that's pretty
big red flag towards knee. But assuming that he can
come back, they did get a very very talented guy
in Josh Simmons that can play left tackle. Now, whether
he's ready for the start, whether he goes un pop,
time will tell. But that was not just this year,
but over the course of the next several years they
(10:41):
might have found their starting left tackle. The BYU kid
that ultimately got benched and Tooney had to move to
left tackle, I think they plan on moving him to guard.
So Andie Reid has a long history of mix and
matching and figuring things out. I know you're high on
the Chargers, and I am too. I'm a Jim Harbaugh homer.
Of course, they take a running back in the first
round that'll end up being like a fourteen hundred yard
(11:03):
Rusher by a second year restar. But I just can't
and I have been someone and I know these guys personally.
I've bet against them twice down in the last two years,
against the Ravens and the Bills, and that was the playoffs,
and I've been burned. We saw last year. Everyone was
nitpicking them week in week out. They won every freaking game.
Now the big difference between them and the Patriots is
(11:23):
Patriots benefited. Their division was pretty terrible, Like this version
of the Bills team was not even close. Miami was
a joke, right, So their division, this division's really really hard.
I mean, Pete Carroll, if he's the worst has the
worst team in your division, Like that's a problem. But
I think the Chiefs, you know, we throw that the
word culture, I think sometimes gets thrown around two liberally.
(11:45):
It's real in Kansas City, like they're winning. Understanding, Listen,
there's gonna be a year when they don't make the
super Bowl and they get knocked out in the second round.
But it's gonna be hard. You're gonna have to kok
him out, and I'm picking them to win the division
until they don't. Now, this is clearly I would say
of the last five or six, you know, since the
homes era, gonna be the most difficult. But you know,
come on the Giants week three at Jacksonville, Like I
(12:08):
get it, Sunday night, Monday night, big moment for those
two against Liam Cohen and this Jackson Dart maybe Russell Wilson.
I'm just picking the Chiefs in those games.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Is there anything that I mean? They have the vikings
back to back in London. I don't like Minnesota like
everybody else. I think they're a fourth place team. Was
there anything about the schedule that jumped out to you?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I think when you look at I lump Minnesota and
Chicago in the same thing. I got thirty years of history.
Green Bay every year, for the most part is ten
plus wins right right. And the Lions now I think
have established themselves. What happens in the playoffs, who knows,
but they're going to be a double digit win team.
When you look at the Bears and you look at
Minnesota because of the divisions that they drew this year
(12:51):
in the rotation, it's hard and the pressure. Listen, this
Caleb thing, I'm sure we'll talk about it. A lot
of pressure on him, a lot of pressure on bears,
a lot of pressure on McCarthy, and the pressure is
not like on DJ Moore or Justin Jefferson. It's squarely
on the quarterback. And these games, like you said, you open,
(13:12):
you open your your NFL career at Chicago, Like that's
just that's tough. And hell, you could argue the same
thing on the flip side about at Caleb Williams, your
first game with his new coach Monday night for everyone watching,
Like these are just intense environments on these two quarterbacks. Now,
Caleb has some seasoning like he JG does not in
terms of ever played a regular season game. But I
(13:32):
think those two schedules for those two guys. Not every
team in this division can win ten plus games. One
of these teams is gonna go eight or nine or
worse right, it's gonna be one of those two teams.
I don't know which one. Like I know Kevin O'Connell
can be a head coach. I love the Vikings roster,
but man, this guy's never started a regular season game.
If you told me right now he's a top fifteen quarterback,
(13:55):
I'd be like, they'll win ten or eleven games, no problem.
But if you tell me it's rocky. I don't care
how you could have ten justin Jefferson's If your quarterback
plays overwhelmed, it's hard. I mean we see it every year.
Good teams and the quarterback plays.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Poor well, and the Packers drafted a first round round
wide receiver. The Lions are stacked offensively. The Bears has
been a fortune on the offensive line. JJ McCarthy's going
to have to throw the ball thirty five times. This
is not a defensive division. This is not the AFC North,
this is the NFC North, and it is going to
be a track meet. And so that's my question with
(14:31):
JJ McCarthy. I would feel differently if you were in
a different division. But Detroit is stacked offensively with the
best of line in the league. You can say what
you want about Ben Johnson is going to be better
with Caleb Williams than Matti. Everflus and Dolmen and Toney
changed the offensive line, and then and then you know,
Green Bay's Green Bay. They went and got another wider receiver,
(14:53):
which tells you we're going to make this Jordan love
thing work. And it wasn't terrible last year. There was
some bumps. So my thing is Karthi, who never threw
the ball at Michigan, is going to be asked to
throw the ball forty times a game a lot because
either they'll be trailing or they'll be in shootouts. This
is going to be a shootout division. So I just
don't love them with that is the marquee of the movie.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
But do you feel comfortable. I mean, listen, we have
a strong recent history of these young offensive coordinators hitting
the ground, running and being stars. Some of them get
overwhelmed historically in the league, like Ben Johnson. It is
this is not an easy first job, right, It's like
solid with the Jets. A lot of people are watching.
There's a ton of hype the Caleb stuff is already
(15:35):
even though it's weird, right, everything we're talking about today
in this article is based on something eighteen months ago.
It's not like he just said this yesterday. But still,
I mean, this is something that carries with you. I
think there's a ton of pressure on him because I
would say the same thing about Caleb, like he's just
gonna outduel the Laflor's offense and the Lions group. I
(15:55):
mean it's gonna be hard, Like he's gonna get in
some shootouts. You know, he kind of freelanced now, he's comfortable,
he has a history, he is used to. I've been
in shootouts. I can play like that. JJ was not.
I mean JJ was on a team that I mean
was the big Ohio State is always built like an
SEC team, but Hardball built that thing like an SEC
team with unlimited NFL players where they hand the ball
(16:16):
off and they play defense. So yeah, that's right, one
of those two teams. I got to give it a
little more time, but it's just not going to go
as well as the hype because the expectations. I would say,
for I mean for Minnesota, they have a what do
you think a top six to seven roster in the
NFL minus the quarterback. I mean, they got one of
the better teams in the NFL top to Bobo. And
I'd say the Bears have a pretty damn good roster too.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Oh. I totally think I think Chicago's offensive you go
line tight end, receivers and Ben Johnson I just don't see,
you know, I mean, go look at Hackett to Sean Payton.
It was a touchdown to eight points a game. And
I think eber Flews to Ben Johnson, is probably somewhere
between a field goal six points a game.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
But here's the thing, though, Colin's and this is what
I get back to with the coordinator Ben with Detroit,
who was just became like Kyle Shanahan or mcpayh or whoever.
All he had to worry about was the place right
now on Monday. What happens when your backup safety got
a dui on Tuesday? Hey, this guy turns out he
shattered his ankle. Like you have all this other stuff coming.
(17:22):
You can't just sit there and scheme plays NonStop, especially
the first time head coach, and then when the game's
going on, you got to manage the cl You got
a lot going on for the first time ever. It's
just a tougher transition. And that's where Kevin O'Connell to me,
has a big advantage. He is used to just being
the play caller, slash the boss. Like there is a
learning If you told me, hey, John, you not only
(17:44):
need to get all the content and record a podcast,
we now need you to run the sales and the
graphics and do some cuts you need to do, it'd
be a curve for a couple months of me figuring
out how to manage everything right. So that's I'm always
just hesitant. And when it comes to guys first time
head coaches, like think how much easier Pete Carroll. He's
sitting in that desk, he's very comfortable in telling who
(18:07):
what to do when like he's just done it before.
So that's that's the only thing. And I'm not anti
Ben Johnson. I mean what he did the last couple
of years was awesome. It is just a lot harder
taking on a lot more responsibility and trying to maintain
your boy genius kind of narrative the way everyone talks
about him.
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Speaker 1 (20:03):
You know, the Caleb thing is funny. So I went
on Chicago radio a year ago before the draft, and
I don't do a lot of local radio shows because
I don't know who the people are, and you know
they you can get burned. But I was I knew
I was going to move to Chicago. So I go
on the Chicago radio station. I forget which one and
and I say, you know, I'm being told that it's
(20:28):
Caleb Williams. Would ideally, his dad would not want him
to go to Chicago, but he's going to bite the
bullet and he loves the city and he wants to
He wants to be the first Great Bears quarterback. Well,
I go off the air and somebody sends me something
or a clip or something where they basically dogged my sources.
Coward doesn't know anything. Well, it comes out Seth Wickersham
(20:48):
basically today came out and said, yeah, basically, his dad
didn't want him to go there. He's got multiple quotes,
and I'm like, well, may have been that Seth and
I had some of the same sources. Was he had agents,
apparently Seth that talked to his dad. There had been
multiple agents. I didn't get it from Caleb's dad, but
I did get it from people very close to Caleb,
(21:10):
and so I think it was the same station reached
out and said, hey, you want to come back on
and spike the football. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna
pass on that. You know, I'm not bitter, but it's like,
you know, if I give you that, if you if
I give you the time, don't question my sources. You
don't have to like my opinion. But you know, I
wouldn't go on and make stuff up. So and the
truth was, and.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I was Caleb kind of come out or like some
of his people right away after you said that and
say it's kind of bad, right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, Well they said we're good, We're good. Of course
they did. They don't and I and you know, like
I knew the game. That's why I didn't react to
that I knew what was going on. I knew what
I'd been told. I knew it was the truth. Somebody
who had been good never burned me. It was fourth
or fifth time I've gotten good information from somebody. But
(21:57):
the point was I didn't blame him. I said, yeah,
if my son was a quarterback, I wouldn't want them
to play for the Bears. They've never had a four
thousand yard pastor. That's literally impossible. That's like, right, driving
a car for your entire life and never having like
a parking ticket or a speeding ticket. It's just gonna happen.
It's inevitable, right like and so, and when the story
came out today, my take is it just doesn't bother me.
(22:21):
Like they looked into you know, what could they do
legally and they said, yeah, the only way around it
is just to do an l way and go public
and let's just not do it. But it doesn't bother me.
We've got an Elie situation. We've got an L way,
and I think the Bears are historically unique. It's they've
just never done that position, right, Does it bother you?
(22:43):
Now that Seth Wickersham comes out and says, yeah, they
thought about making a stink.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
No. I mean, ultimately, I don't really give a shit,
but I would say this. I don't think it helps
scalem And I always take the stance of like, I
never blame you know, wives parents, their relationship with a
player is so much different than everyone else, right, so
they are so much closer to the son emotionally. It
(23:10):
doesn't bother me. I know people with Oklahoma. I was
hearing a long time ago that his dad's a lot.
That's part of college sports. You deal a lot with
the parents. In the pros, nobody wants to hear from
mom or dad.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Not a soul.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
We're paying Caleb forty million dollars guaranteed, let's throw thirty touchdowns.
And I think his comments sometimes like, you know, he's
trying to be a support of dad. No one has
any issue with that. Jayden Daniels's mom forces all the
floozies to stay away from her son. Well, guess what
her son's playing really well in football. She doesn't talk
(23:46):
anything about his professional life. It's all personal stuff. This
guy comes out and makes comments about the CBA is unconstitutional,
the rookie Wade scale, Well, why do they create a
rookie Wade scale because guys like JaMarcus Russell were scared
in the league where the veterans weren't getting the money.
So Caleb, you know if that rookie Wade scale hadn't
been so when you make comments like that, people kind
(24:07):
of look side eyed.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And the other thing that really comes through is Ryan
Poles is quoted in there like we're taking you, buddy,
so get ready like this you talk about this a
lot player empowerment in the NFL doesn't really roll like that.
I would say this if you're Ryan Poles, Like, you
know Adam Peters. Do you think Adam Peters right now
would trade Jayden Daniels for Caleb Williams in this situation?
And here's the other thing. A lot of cabs Caleb
(24:31):
wasn't making these comments about the CBA are going to
the UFL. Is coming from his dad. But all these
comments get aggregated and a lot of the players in
the league see this and they're like, who does this
kid think he is? And I just think it adds pressure.
And again this is I would be more worked up
if these comments came last week or two weeks ago.
This was last January February, before he got into the NFL.
(24:52):
But I'm sorry, it just does not help his situation.
It adds pressure, It just adds a lot of craziness
to this situation. New coach and they get to start fresh.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But I just think that.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Like, we just need to calm down and just and
just win some games and throw some touchdowns before you start.
Remember last year the equity talk, we want in on
the franchise, You're going to go to the UFL and
sit out of You're like, give me a break, you know.
And again this is his dad, not it's Caleb. It's
not saying I'm going to the UFL. And at the
end of the day, all these comments didn't come true.
(25:25):
He just allowed he went to the Bears and what
they were not wrong about the coaching staff. I mean
that was a disaster, which we all knew coming in.
But I think sometimes with a very aggressive parent like this,
and I haven't seen a quote from Caleb's dad since
he got in the league, you gotta be careful about
saying some of this stuff because your son has to
cash those checks on the field. So I just think
(25:48):
if you're the Bears, like you're like oh my god
when you see this come out, because again, didn't he
write a book on a bunch of quarterbacks and this
is the thing that gets cut and this is you know,
the headlines going viral, getting just sent around. I'm telling you,
Adam Peters goes to bed like out my quarterbacks just
no issues, no problems, and it's just sometimes it's your family.
(26:10):
But man, is you just don't want to to deal
with any of this, especially when you're not making place.
I mean, it just did not go well.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, I think he's set up for success now. I
mean we were talking about in the show today Tua
and Jared Goff had bad first years in bad relationships
with coaches or at least coach coaches that didn't get them.
I do think there's more good offensive coaching than ever
before in the league. And your second or third team
Gino Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker, Mayfield. You know, Baker got
(26:39):
Liam Cohen and McVeigh after Freddie Kitchens, like it does
sometimes take a while. It used to be if your
first place didn't work, there just weren't that many great
offensive coaches in the league and they weren't leaving places
where they were located now, guys, it's a much more
mobile society. There's good offensive coaches. If you have one
or two good years at a place, you're a head
(26:59):
coach if you're not off coach. So you can actually
have a hiccup in your first stop and maybe your second,
and maybe get a third shot. So I think that
bows well for Caleb. Like a Jared Goff, I didn't
think he stood a chance last year. I think it's
much more set up to succeed the You know, we
(27:21):
talk a lot Aaron Rodgers, and I know it's tiring,
but and I really don't care where he goes. If
he retired, great, if he goes to Pittsburgh find they're
a third place team, I don't really care. And he
has some personal drama situation in his life, so I
can have some sympathy for that. I don't really care
that if you were in the league and worked in
(27:43):
the league, if he just retired, how would Pittsburgh view
him if they were caught off guard.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I just don't think they had many other options. Like
I don't think that they are losing a bunch of
sleep over the situation, which sounds crazy, but we have
a pretty good sample size now knowing that they think
they could get around I don't know somehow not having
attempting to get a Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, just drafting quarterbacks.
You're in, you're out. But at this point in time, Colin,
it's May fifteenth. I mean, what are we doing here?
(28:14):
I mean I think they have to at least have
come to grips with like everything's kind of on the
table here that they cannot for a very old school organization.
I saw a quote from I don't think he's the
Papa Rooney. He's like the sixty year old Rooney that said,
you know, we don't love playing at night late in
the season. It's like, well, that usually means you're good.
This comes with the territory. You think Andy Reid wants
(28:35):
to play all these night games. No, but it comes
with being the Chiefs, you're the Pittsburgh Steelers. I just
think they have gotten to this position where it's hard.
I mean, look at the Saints. Drew Brees retires and
they're just going through quarterbacks. They tried to Derek that failed.
Now they're in this weird position with a twenty eight
year old rookie. It's not like an easy solution, but
(28:55):
they've shown their true colors of like their organizational philosophy
is run the ball and play defense. That is Bruce Arians.
When Roethlisberger was turning into a star, the Rooney family
was not happy with them throwing the ball so much.
That was when they were winning the Super Bowl. You know,
the organizational philosophy does not start with Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It starts with the Rooney family.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Play d run the ball. I mean, look, they draft
that running back who I like, the Iowa kid, and
they drafted defensive tackle in the first They've been doing
the same thing since well before I was alive, and
I think they are going to be doing it well
after Tomlin's gone one day. So I think whether Rogers
shows up or whether they Mason Rudolph hands the ball
to Caleb Johnson and they try to stuff the run
(29:39):
with Harmon and TJ. Watt like that's how they're gonna play,
which is insane, But you could argue even if he
shows up, they're gonna beat Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson
some of these teams. So it's the Bills. What are
we even talking about? They are kind of stuck they're
like the better version of the post Peyton Drew Brees Saints,
but it still doesn't get you any and it leads
(30:01):
actually to a lot more animosity where it's like what
are we doing? Like how often are we celebrating he's
never had a losing season. Yes, we know he's really
good coach, But like, if the organization we don't pick
or go after young quarterbacks, why not just draft a
quarterback every year in the top couple of rounds just
until you figure it out. When you're in this position,
you got to take some swings. Let's just resign Mason
(30:22):
Rudolph and trade for this, Like this is not gonna work.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Guys. Well, just the fact they keep going back to
Mason Rudolph, he's I mean, they just they It tells
you they're just uncomfortable with risk offensively.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Well, they tried last year, right, which was a little
out of there. They're like, we'll get these two guys
and it ended and there you could tell like that
wasn't really our thing, you know, Russell big personality, fields
got some limitations, but ideally probably not a starter for us.
They didn't like that, and I give them credit for trying.
What they tried, they punted on Kenny Pickett, and clearly
(30:55):
they're like, we're not doing that thing again. Too many
people talking about there, but now they're waiting on Aaron Rodgers.
I don't know, just they're in just a weird space
for a franchise that. I mean, what would you say,
in your lifetime one of the better run American sports
franchises in America?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I thought, until maybe twelve years ago, I thought you
could argue they were the best overall franchise most of
my life. I mean I started watching football nineteen seventy two,
but from like nineteen seventy four, seventy five until maybe
ten to twelve years ago, I thought they were in
the you know, they were in the argument with the Patriots.
(31:33):
You know, Patriots had down years but the Brady years,
but I mean, they were just like well run and
now there it's I always find this this ish is
fascinating to me. Old successful people that can't age well,
and it's it's just really really weird to me. When
you like, when you see Bobby Knight, I'm not going
to do the one and done? Why not do just
(31:55):
want to win games? Like I don't get it or Belichick,
Matt Patricia's the offensive court bill. You're smarter than that.
What are you doing? Like, it's fascinating to me that
all the people in the building in Pittsburgh and they
can't get the offensive line right, they can't get quarterback right,
and they're not I mean, Canny Pikett, I guess was
(32:16):
a swing. But it's like I just it's not that hard.
I think sometimes I underestimate the gap between Like Sean
McVeigh I did this the other day. The Steelers are
the opposite of the Rams. The Rams spend money on
a young, progressive offensive coach, Steelers on an old defensive coach.
(32:39):
One team's made the playoffs like like seven of the
last eight years. The Steelers haven't won a playoff game
in like eight years or something. You know, One team
spends no money on defense. One leads the league in
spending on defense. One never takes a chance on character guys,
(33:00):
like they just they don't put them on their draft board.
One makes a living off that. It's it's almost if
I can't quite figure the Steelers out. They want character,
but nobody's had more divas and high maintenance offensive guys
than the Steelers. They want to win, but then they
don't take care of the number one position like I
(33:20):
just I find them. I feel like there's a messaging
issue in the building. And like Omark Kahan, my sources
don't consider him like a great general manager.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, I know that what was his name, Colbert, the
former GM, I think was really really highly thought of
in the NFL circles by personnel people. I think people
would say that they've dropped off, you know, in terms
of that just the group Kahn and his group relative
to Colbert, I would say. The other thing is, you know,
once the Ravens moved to Baltimore and Aussie and DaCosta
(33:54):
was with him the whole time they had you know,
during the two thousand now they had really good teams,
but they basically played the Steel every year. They became
their rival, and they copied the way they did things
like toughness, hardcore guys, playing any environment, toughest team in
the league. And now over the last decade plus, it's
like we do it better than you, so we had
a front row seat. It's like you're our main competition
(34:16):
in business. We know exactly how you do things. Yet
we're a little more open minded and progressive to the
way that we scout coach, however, and we've now lacked
you because that's what it feels like. The Ravens are
running circles around them, and hell, the Ravens can't even
get over the hump in the playoffs. But they're in
a different universe than the Steelers. And then the Bengals
(34:37):
listen to a lot of people make fun of them,
but they've hit on some players over the years, and
getting Joe Burrow changed that franchise, regardless of how weird
and rinky dink it can feel sometimes, but I do
think the Ravens kind of getting their blueprint and then
modernizing it like the Internet version, has really hurt if
the Ravens were a little bit more of just a
(34:58):
regular run of the mill ten to eleven win team,
but they just have become a dominant NFL team, especially
with Lamar. It has made the Steelers look a lot worse.
I mean, look, anyone could have had Derrick Henry right.
They got him for eight million dollars. Boom, he goes there,
he runs for whatever, almost two thousand yards and they
give him an extension. It's like no brainer. It's like
(35:19):
shouldn't the Steelers have been all over a guy like that.
I mean, they were kicking Najie Harris to the curb.
And I just think that the Steelers are just kind
of in this weird spot. They're too well run and they,
you know, Mike Tomins is too high level of a guy.
They're never gonna suck like. They're never gonna have a
season where it's like, oh, this is the year they
drafted six This is not gonna happen. But drafting sixteenth
to twentieth every year is not a great place to
(35:41):
be either, because they're doing it basically every year for
what a decade plus. They haven't won a playoff game
since they beat Kansas City in the second round. I
think that was Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown and levey On Bell
where they're star offensive players a long time.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, well, last sixteen years, Ravens, including playoffs, have won
the most games in that division, and that was about
I think Steve Bushatti bought the franchise twenty plus years ago,
but it took him a few years to get it right.
And to your point, they think they copied the Steelers
model a little bit. I mean, in that cold weather
part of the country. There are certain absolutes, like you
(36:19):
have to be able to run the football, you have
to play really good defense, you better have good offensive lines.
You're not going to be throwing the ball down the field.
In fact, I could argue before Za Flowers, I just
I didn't think Baltimore drafted wide receivers particularly well. They
drafted everything else exceptionally well. The Steelers draft wide receivers
exceptionally well, but they've had a lot of misses on
the offensive line and quarterbacks and other spaces. So it
(36:41):
is a weird franchise. Okay, this is just a little bit,
a little bit of schedule talk, and that's good. Enjoy it,
have a good weekend.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Everybody see you.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
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Scout three and Out podcast, let's talk some NFL schedule stuff,
and we'll do a half hour on this. I think
(01:05):
it's my first take is so I looked at the
Niner schedule and I knew it would be easy, and
then I watched the way it was laid out, and
I'm like, if you take out Stafford twice and C. J.
Stroud once, this is the weakest schedule in fifteen years.
The Atlanta Falcons had this schedule back in no, I
(01:27):
think it was twenty fifteen. It'd be ten years. So
it's the weakest schedule in a decade. And I would
I'll throw this at you. I said, if I was
John Lynch and looked at the schedule, I would sign
Brock pretty now because this schedule screams twelve and five,
thirteen and four, and right now he's coming off losing season.
So if you have any leverage, could I say, John,
(01:50):
it's the next month to two. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I mean, I think his we obviously spent so much
time talking about this. His whole thing is comparing himself
to other guys, and these recent contracts of guys like
Jordan Love who played eight games and got one hundred
and seventy five million, Tua who got one hundred and
sixty million Trevor Lawrence who got two hundred million dollars. Like,
he does have a leg to stand on, given that
(02:13):
he's played well and you know, been a part of
a team that was in a Super Bowl. But my
issue is, like that money's coming, Like he's getting the contract.
We don't know exactly one hundred and fifty million, one
hundred and eighty million, one hundred.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And thirty million.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm sure that's you pay him. Let's just say conservatively
fifty million dollars a year. Kyle is one of the
highest paid coaches at fifteen to eighteen million dollars a year.
If I'm paying my head coach and my quarterback close
to seventy million dollars a year at minimum, I don't
care who else is on the team because this roster
is not as good as it was a couple of
years ago. I need double digit wins. I mean, we've
(02:47):
seen it with the with the Rams last couple of years,
they found a way as they retooled. I would say
anything less than double digit wins. I have supported Kyle
thinking like, oh he's on the hot seat. That was
insane talk. But there is a contingent of the those
humans that exist over You know, Kyle can rub some
people the wrong way. I think he's a pretty elite coach.
He's proven that, but this is a big year for
(03:08):
him to Again, I don't need twelve thirteen wins. I
don't think the roster is quite as good. But if
the Ravens or the Bills or the Chiefs had this schedule,
we'd be talking like, can they run the table? Ten
wins minimum? I think is more than fair, and I
think that is going to be the expectation or things
have gone really really sour.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yeah, I said that if you gave Stafford Burrow, not
Burrow because Cincinnati I don't trust their front office and ownership.
But if you gave Josh Allen, Lamar Mahomes and I
think Stafford and McVeigh this, we would be talking about
thirteen or fourteen wins. I mean even Vegas would probably
put the over under at twelve to twelve and a half. So,
you know, I think one of the things that bothered
(03:45):
me John, I've said this, and this is my interpretation.
I could tell when Bill Belichick took over drafting with
the Patriots, he was drafting players who had plug immediate holes,
often reaching for people. General managers gen to have a
tend to have a a little bit of a longer vision.
I can tell when Pete Carolyn Seattle, I could tell
(04:06):
they were reaching on some players, and I'm like, that's
not John Snyder. Last couple of drafts when John's controlled
them have been excellent. I do feel like the last
couple of years, I felt like Kyle's had a lot
of say in drafting. I find their drafts for the moment,
not for the future. I Ricky Pierre Saliz like, you've
(04:28):
got Jennings and Deebo and Ayuk and Kittle and McCaffrey.
You've got enough pass catchers. That felt like a coach
who wanted a little you know, wanted to replace Debo.
That's what I see. I tend to be able to say, okay,
I can tell that to coach's draft or a coach
is putting pressure. I didn't like the Niners draft. I
thought they didn't attack the offensive line, which is a
(04:49):
huge issue. What did you view of their draft?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I've come to the expectations now Kyle's admitted, like, we
don't value offensive lineman unless we think you're like an
all time great. We'll pick a skill guy. We're definitely
a defensive lineman, which I'm four. But they just don't
draft offensive lineman, especially tackles. He's not going to draft
to tackle in the third round, which I think is insane.
I had a college scouting director because I was talking
(05:12):
a lot about this too during and before the draft.
How you know different personnel departments work, He says, you
can always tell when the coach is heavily involved because
they treat the draft. You can tell they're looking at
the depth chart. You know, scouts in front offices aren't
consumed with the depth chart because the depth chart, to
Kyle is Week one against Seattle. You know, John Lynch
and these like Michael Williams is a real pick, right,
(05:34):
the kid from Florigia. That's a big picture pick that
any team takes. That's not the depth chart. Whether you
had ten defensive ends or one, you have no problem
picking him. But like you said, Ricky Piersall, it's like, well,
you know this IU thing's going sour. We're already turning
on Deebo. Might we might trade him right now or
over the next year. That's a depth chart move. And
I think that's where you get into trouble. You know,
(05:56):
there's a balance of need and big picture, but coaches
are just oh, Kyle's Kyle's not worried about twenty twenty seven.
He's worried about this year trying to win eleven games
and be in the playoffs. And I don't blame him,
but that's why there's got to be a little separation
between church and state. You know. I look at the
Eagles have the most powerful GM. Look how they've drafted
and the coaching staff coach the players. It's gone pretty well.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, it's so. And I also think there are things.
I think Arizona is going to be a real team.
I think I think Seattle's roster is really impressive. I
think the Vikings will miss Sam Darnold. And I think
the Rams defense, I think it's the best young defense
in the NFL. So I thought last year was a
year where Arizona and the Rams over I mean I
thought the Rams overachieved a little. I thought the Arizona
(06:42):
wasn't quite there yet with a new coach, and I
thought Seattle with Gino Smith, had limitations at quarterback. I
think the division's much better. So yeah, I mean, so,
I just I just don't feel it. The schedules. It's
a save. I'll tell you that because I.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Do think this though, Colin, if you go, we do agree.
Kyle Shanahan has faults at times, is one of the
better coaches in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yes, listen.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Robert Sola, head coach Jets, not an easy spot, A
little over his head. Most people view him as an
excellent defensive coordinator. I don't know. I don't have the
spreadsheet because it's not public. I would imagine Kyle and
Robert Sala when you combine the head coach and defensive
coordinator beside like Andy and Spags, that there can't be
a higher paid combination. This is a coaching league, right
(07:28):
Because you talk a lot about this, the margins are small.
I think you've got to like your chances. Even if
you've got some now random players on the team that
their coach, their offensive and defensive coordinator. The guys calling
the place are really good. So I'm a little more
bullish now we're going to find out pretty quickly, like
if they've whiffed on some picks. I don't care if
you've got Bill Walsh and Belichick in his prime. You
(07:50):
can only do this is the NFL, Like you need
some of these guys to become players.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So I want to talk about Kansas City. So when
you have a dynas, every dynasty's got a weak spot.
Like when New England got into trouble was near the
end of the second dynasty when they just didn't have
enough receiver speed, when they couldn't separate. Tom had to
(08:15):
play perfect, nobody could get open. The famous sideline shot
of him screaming, somebody get open. That was the hole
in their dynasty. Outside of the Randy Moss years. You know,
they weren't electric down the field. It was more tight ends,
run game, Tom's efficiency, Tom's twenty three for twenty nine.
They just don't make mistakes. They beat you late. They
were never electric except the Randy Moss hears on the perimeter.
(08:38):
Kansas City's weakness has been immature wide receivers and offensive
line when they've been blown out, and it's only happened
a couple times, both in Super Bowls. They've had left
tackle issues or offensive line depth problems. They're just missing
good players. So I look at this year. Joe Tooney
was their best offensive lineman. He's not a replaceable. There's
(09:00):
nobody in the draft close. They're now going left tackle
for a guy that was a backup in San Francisco.
This is to me the weakest O line they've had
entering a season. Can they make a move at the
trade deadline, certainly possible. But if you go look at
their first ten games, John, even the bad teams they play,
the Giants now have Abdul Carter Dexter, Lawrence Tibodeau. On
(09:25):
the other side, the Raiders have Max Crosby the Broncos.
They're better than Broncos led the NFL in sacks. The
Jaguars have a good defensive front. I'm just mentioning the
games that look like wins. I looked at Kansas City
schedule early and I'm like they could have used some
of those games late, because you know, it takes a
while to create COH. You don't replace Joe Toney in
(09:47):
the preseason like you need snaps. I thought Kansas City
schedule was about as tough as the league deals to
to a Andy Reid Mahomes pairing.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well. I also think he'sier on players to play, you know,
games at noon in Kansas City than they have five
of their first eight games at prime time, and they
got to go to Bruzil, which I understand the international,
especially now with streaming the Brazil thing. I don't quite
get Colin going down a CYC. I don't quite understand
that market. But I'll say this about the Chiefs. Their
(10:21):
first round draft pick would have been a top ten
pick had he not torn his knee. Well that's pretty
big red flag towards knee. But assuming that he can
come back, they did get a very very talented guy
in Josh Simmons that can play left tackle. Now, whether
he's ready for the start, whether he goes un pop,
time will tell. But that was not just this year,
but over the course of the next several years they
(10:41):
might have found their starting left tackle. The BYU kid
that ultimately got benched and Tooney had to move to
left tackle, I think they plan on moving him to guard.
So Andie Reid has a long history of mix and
matching and figuring things out. I know you're high on
the Chargers, and I am too. I'm a Jim Harbaugh homer.
Of course, they take a running back in the first
round that'll end up being like a fourteen hundred yard
(11:03):
Rusher by a second year restar. But I just can't
and I have been someone and I know these guys personally.
I've bet against them twice down in the last two years,
against the Ravens and the Bills, and that was the playoffs,
and I've been burned. We saw last year. Everyone was
nitpicking them week in week out. They won every freaking game.
Now the big difference between them and the Patriots is
(11:23):
Patriots benefited. Their division was pretty terrible, Like this version
of the Bills team was not even close. Miami was
a joke, right, So their division, this division's really really hard.
I mean, Pete Carroll, if he's the worst has the
worst team in your division, Like that's a problem. But
I think the Chiefs, you know, we throw that the
word culture, I think sometimes gets thrown around two liberally.
(11:45):
It's real in Kansas City, like they're winning. Understanding, Listen,
there's gonna be a year when they don't make the
super Bowl and they get knocked out in the second round.
But it's gonna be hard. You're gonna have to kok
him out, and I'm picking them to win the division
until they don't. Now, this is clearly I would say
of the last five or six, you know, since the
homes era, gonna be the most difficult. But you know,
come on the Giants week three at Jacksonville, Like I
(12:08):
get it, Sunday night, Monday night, big moment for those
two against Liam Cohen and this Jackson Dart maybe Russell Wilson.
I'm just picking the Chiefs in those games.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Is there anything that I mean? They have the vikings
back to back in London. I don't like Minnesota like
everybody else. I think they're a fourth place team. Was
there anything about the schedule that jumped out to you?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I think when you look at I lump Minnesota and
Chicago in the same thing. I got thirty years of history.
Green Bay every year, for the most part is ten
plus wins right right. And the Lions now I think
have established themselves. What happens in the playoffs, who knows,
but they're going to be a double digit win team.
When you look at the Bears and you look at
Minnesota because of the divisions that they drew this year
(12:51):
in the rotation, it's hard and the pressure. Listen, this
Caleb thing, I'm sure we'll talk about it. A lot
of pressure on him, a lot of pressure on bears,
a lot of pressure on McCarthy, and the pressure is
not like on DJ Moore or Justin Jefferson. It's squarely
on the quarterback. And these games, like you said, you open,
(13:12):
you open your your NFL career at Chicago, Like that's
just that's tough. And hell, you could argue the same
thing on the flip side about at Caleb Williams, your
first game with his new coach Monday night for everyone watching,
Like these are just intense environments on these two quarterbacks. Now,
Caleb has some seasoning like he JG does not in
terms of ever played a regular season game. But I
(13:32):
think those two schedules for those two guys. Not every
team in this division can win ten plus games. One
of these teams is gonna go eight or nine or
worse right, it's gonna be one of those two teams.
I don't know which one. Like I know Kevin O'Connell
can be a head coach. I love the Vikings roster,
but man, this guy's never started a regular season game.
If you told me right now he's a top fifteen quarterback,
(13:55):
I'd be like, they'll win ten or eleven games, no problem.
But if you tell me it's rocky. I don't care
how you could have ten justin Jefferson's If your quarterback
plays overwhelmed, it's hard. I mean we see it every year.
Good teams and the quarterback plays.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Poor well, and the Packers drafted a first round round
wide receiver. The Lions are stacked offensively. The Bears has
been a fortune on the offensive line. JJ McCarthy's going
to have to throw the ball thirty five times. This
is not a defensive division. This is not the AFC North,
this is the NFC North, and it is going to
be a track meet. And so that's my question with
(14:31):
JJ McCarthy. I would feel differently if you were in
a different division. But Detroit is stacked offensively with the
best of line in the league. You can say what
you want about Ben Johnson is going to be better
with Caleb Williams than Matti. Everflus and Dolmen and Toney
changed the offensive line, and then and then you know,
Green Bay's Green Bay. They went and got another wider receiver,
(14:53):
which tells you we're going to make this Jordan love
thing work. And it wasn't terrible last year. There was
some bumps. So my thing is Karthi, who never threw
the ball at Michigan, is going to be asked to
throw the ball forty times a game a lot because
either they'll be trailing or they'll be in shootouts. This
is going to be a shootout division. So I just
don't love them with that is the marquee of the movie.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
But do you feel comfortable. I mean, listen, we have
a strong recent history of these young offensive coordinators hitting
the ground, running and being stars. Some of them get
overwhelmed historically in the league, like Ben Johnson. It is
this is not an easy first job, right, It's like
solid with the Jets. A lot of people are watching.
There's a ton of hype the Caleb stuff is already
(15:35):
even though it's weird, right, everything we're talking about today
in this article is based on something eighteen months ago.
It's not like he just said this yesterday. But still,
I mean, this is something that carries with you. I
think there's a ton of pressure on him because I
would say the same thing about Caleb, like he's just
gonna outduel the Laflor's offense and the Lions group. I
(15:55):
mean it's gonna be hard, Like he's gonna get in
some shootouts. You know, he kind of freelanced now, he's comfortable,
he has a history, he is used to. I've been
in shootouts. I can play like that. JJ was not.
I mean JJ was on a team that I mean
was the big Ohio State is always built like an
SEC team, but Hardball built that thing like an SEC
team with unlimited NFL players where they hand the ball
(16:16):
off and they play defense. So yeah, that's right, one
of those two teams. I got to give it a
little more time, but it's just not going to go
as well as the hype because the expectations. I would say,
for I mean for Minnesota, they have a what do
you think a top six to seven roster in the
NFL minus the quarterback. I mean, they got one of
the better teams in the NFL top to Bobo. And
I'd say the Bears have a pretty damn good roster too.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Oh. I totally think I think Chicago's offensive you go
line tight end, receivers and Ben Johnson I just don't see,
you know, I mean, go look at Hackett to Sean Payton.
It was a touchdown to eight points a game. And
I think eber Flews to Ben Johnson, is probably somewhere
between a field goal six points a game.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
But here's the thing, though, Colin's and this is what
I get back to with the coordinator Ben with Detroit,
who was just became like Kyle Shanahan or mcpayh or whoever.
All he had to worry about was the place right
now on Monday. What happens when your backup safety got
a dui on Tuesday? Hey, this guy turns out he
shattered his ankle. Like you have all this other stuff coming.
(17:22):
You can't just sit there and scheme plays NonStop, especially
the first time head coach, and then when the game's
going on, you got to manage the cl You got
a lot going on for the first time ever. It's
just a tougher transition. And that's where Kevin O'Connell to me,
has a big advantage. He is used to just being
the play caller, slash the boss. Like there is a
learning If you told me, hey, John, you not only
(17:44):
need to get all the content and record a podcast,
we now need you to run the sales and the
graphics and do some cuts you need to do, it'd
be a curve for a couple months of me figuring
out how to manage everything right. So that's I'm always
just hesitant. And when it comes to guys first time
head coaches, like think how much easier Pete Carroll. He's
sitting in that desk, he's very comfortable in telling who
(18:07):
what to do when like he's just done it before.
So that's that's the only thing. And I'm not anti
Ben Johnson. I mean what he did the last couple
of years was awesome. It is just a lot harder
taking on a lot more responsibility and trying to maintain
your boy genius kind of narrative the way everyone talks
about him.
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Speaker 1 (20:03):
You know, the Caleb thing is funny. So I went
on Chicago radio a year ago before the draft, and
I don't do a lot of local radio shows because
I don't know who the people are, and you know
they you can get burned. But I was I knew
I was going to move to Chicago. So I go
on the Chicago radio station. I forget which one and
and I say, you know, I'm being told that it's
(20:28):
Caleb Williams. Would ideally, his dad would not want him
to go to Chicago, but he's going to bite the
bullet and he loves the city and he wants to
He wants to be the first Great Bears quarterback. Well,
I go off the air and somebody sends me something
or a clip or something where they basically dogged my sources.
Coward doesn't know anything. Well, it comes out Seth Wickersham
(20:48):
basically today came out and said, yeah, basically, his dad
didn't want him to go there. He's got multiple quotes,
and I'm like, well, may have been that Seth and
I had some of the same sources. Was he had agents,
apparently Seth that talked to his dad. There had been
multiple agents. I didn't get it from Caleb's dad, but
I did get it from people very close to Caleb,
(21:10):
and so I think it was the same station reached
out and said, hey, you want to come back on
and spike the football. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna
pass on that. You know, I'm not bitter, but it's like,
you know, if I give you that, if you if
I give you the time, don't question my sources. You
don't have to like my opinion. But you know, I
wouldn't go on and make stuff up. So and the
truth was, and.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I was Caleb kind of come out or like some
of his people right away after you said that and
say it's kind of bad, right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, Well they said we're good, We're good. Of course
they did. They don't and I and you know, like
I knew the game. That's why I didn't react to
that I knew what was going on. I knew what
I'd been told. I knew it was the truth. Somebody
who had been good never burned me. It was fourth
or fifth time I've gotten good information from somebody. But
(21:57):
the point was I didn't blame him. I said, yeah,
if my son was a quarterback, I wouldn't want them
to play for the Bears. They've never had a four
thousand yard pastor. That's literally impossible. That's like, right, driving
a car for your entire life and never having like
a parking ticket or a speeding ticket. It's just gonna happen.
It's inevitable, right like and so, and when the story
came out today, my take is it just doesn't bother me.
(22:21):
Like they looked into you know, what could they do
legally and they said, yeah, the only way around it
is just to do an l way and go public
and let's just not do it. But it doesn't bother me.
We've got an Elie situation. We've got an L way,
and I think the Bears are historically unique. It's they've
just never done that position, right, Does it bother you?
(22:43):
Now that Seth Wickersham comes out and says, yeah, they
thought about making a stink.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
No. I mean, ultimately, I don't really give a shit,
but I would say this. I don't think it helps
scalem And I always take the stance of like, I
never blame you know, wives parents, their relationship with a
player is so much different than everyone else, right, so
they are so much closer to the son emotionally. It
(23:10):
doesn't bother me. I know people with Oklahoma. I was
hearing a long time ago that his dad's a lot.
That's part of college sports. You deal a lot with
the parents. In the pros, nobody wants to hear from
mom or dad.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Not a soul.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
We're paying Caleb forty million dollars guaranteed, let's throw thirty touchdowns.
And I think his comments sometimes like, you know, he's
trying to be a support of dad. No one has
any issue with that. Jayden Daniels's mom forces all the
floozies to stay away from her son. Well, guess what
her son's playing really well in football. She doesn't talk
(23:46):
anything about his professional life. It's all personal stuff. This
guy comes out and makes comments about the CBA is unconstitutional,
the rookie Wade scale, Well, why do they create a
rookie Wade scale because guys like JaMarcus Russell were scared
in the league where the veterans weren't getting the money.
So Caleb, you know if that rookie Wade scale hadn't
been so when you make comments like that, people kind
(24:07):
of look side eyed.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And the other thing that really comes through is Ryan
Poles is quoted in there like we're taking you, buddy,
so get ready like this you talk about this a
lot player empowerment in the NFL doesn't really roll like that.
I would say this if you're Ryan Poles, Like, you
know Adam Peters. Do you think Adam Peters right now
would trade Jayden Daniels for Caleb Williams in this situation?
And here's the other thing. A lot of cabs Caleb
(24:31):
wasn't making these comments about the CBA are going to
the UFL. Is coming from his dad. But all these
comments get aggregated and a lot of the players in
the league see this and they're like, who does this
kid think he is? And I just think it adds pressure.
And again this is I would be more worked up
if these comments came last week or two weeks ago.
This was last January February, before he got into the NFL.
(24:52):
But I'm sorry, it just does not help his situation.
It adds pressure, It just adds a lot of craziness
to this situation. New coach and they get to start fresh.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But I just think that.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Like, we just need to calm down and just and
just win some games and throw some touchdowns before you start.
Remember last year the equity talk, we want in on
the franchise, You're going to go to the UFL and
sit out of You're like, give me a break, you know.
And again this is his dad, not it's Caleb. It's
not saying I'm going to the UFL. And at the
end of the day, all these comments didn't come true.
(25:25):
He just allowed he went to the Bears and what
they were not wrong about the coaching staff. I mean
that was a disaster, which we all knew coming in.
But I think sometimes with a very aggressive parent like this,
and I haven't seen a quote from Caleb's dad since
he got in the league, you gotta be careful about
saying some of this stuff because your son has to
cash those checks on the field. So I just think
(25:48):
if you're the Bears, like you're like oh my god
when you see this come out, because again, didn't he
write a book on a bunch of quarterbacks and this
is the thing that gets cut and this is you know,
the headlines going viral, getting just sent around. I'm telling you,
Adam Peters goes to bed like out my quarterbacks just
no issues, no problems, and it's just sometimes it's your family.
(26:10):
But man, is you just don't want to to deal
with any of this, especially when you're not making place.
I mean, it just did not go well.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, I think he's set up for success now. I
mean we were talking about in the show today Tua
and Jared Goff had bad first years in bad relationships
with coaches or at least coach coaches that didn't get them.
I do think there's more good offensive coaching than ever
before in the league. And your second or third team
Gino Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker, Mayfield. You know, Baker got
(26:39):
Liam Cohen and McVeigh after Freddie Kitchens, like it does
sometimes take a while. It used to be if your
first place didn't work, there just weren't that many great
offensive coaches in the league and they weren't leaving places
where they were located now, guys, it's a much more
mobile society. There's good offensive coaches. If you have one
or two good years at a place, you're a head
(26:59):
coach if you're not off coach. So you can actually
have a hiccup in your first stop and maybe your second,
and maybe get a third shot. So I think that
bows well for Caleb. Like a Jared Goff, I didn't
think he stood a chance last year. I think it's
much more set up to succeed the You know, we
(27:21):
talk a lot Aaron Rodgers, and I know it's tiring,
but and I really don't care where he goes. If
he retired, great, if he goes to Pittsburgh find they're
a third place team, I don't really care. And he
has some personal drama situation in his life, so I
can have some sympathy for that. I don't really care
that if you were in the league and worked in
(27:43):
the league, if he just retired, how would Pittsburgh view
him if they were caught off guard.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I just don't think they had many other options. Like
I don't think that they are losing a bunch of
sleep over the situation, which sounds crazy, but we have
a pretty good sample size now knowing that they think
they could get around I don't know somehow not having
attempting to get a Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, just drafting quarterbacks.
You're in, you're out. But at this point in time, Colin,
it's May fifteenth. I mean, what are we doing here?
(28:14):
I mean I think they have to at least have
come to grips with like everything's kind of on the
table here that they cannot for a very old school organization.
I saw a quote from I don't think he's the
Papa Rooney. He's like the sixty year old Rooney that said,
you know, we don't love playing at night late in
the season. It's like, well, that usually means you're good.
This comes with the territory. You think Andy Reid wants
(28:35):
to play all these night games. No, but it comes
with being the Chiefs, you're the Pittsburgh Steelers. I just
think they have gotten to this position where it's hard.
I mean, look at the Saints. Drew Brees retires and
they're just going through quarterbacks. They tried to Derek that failed.
Now they're in this weird position with a twenty eight
year old rookie. It's not like an easy solution, but
(28:55):
they've shown their true colors of like their organizational philosophy
is run the ball and play defense. That is Bruce Arians.
When Roethlisberger was turning into a star, the Rooney family
was not happy with them throwing the ball so much.
That was when they were winning the Super Bowl. You know,
the organizational philosophy does not start with Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It starts with the Rooney family.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Play d run the ball. I mean, look, they draft
that running back who I like, the Iowa kid, and
they drafted defensive tackle in the first They've been doing
the same thing since well before I was alive, and
I think they are going to be doing it well
after Tomlin's gone one day. So I think whether Rogers
shows up or whether they Mason Rudolph hands the ball
to Caleb Johnson and they try to stuff the run
(29:39):
with Harmon and TJ. Watt like that's how they're gonna play,
which is insane, But you could argue even if he
shows up, they're gonna beat Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson
some of these teams. So it's the Bills. What are
we even talking about? They are kind of stuck they're
like the better version of the post Peyton Drew Brees Saints,
but it still doesn't get you any and it leads
(30:01):
actually to a lot more animosity where it's like what
are we doing? Like how often are we celebrating he's
never had a losing season. Yes, we know he's really
good coach, But like, if the organization we don't pick
or go after young quarterbacks, why not just draft a
quarterback every year in the top couple of rounds just
until you figure it out. When you're in this position,
you got to take some swings. Let's just resign Mason
(30:22):
Rudolph and trade for this, Like this is not gonna work.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Guys. Well, just the fact they keep going back to
Mason Rudolph, he's I mean, they just they It tells
you they're just uncomfortable with risk offensively.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Well, they tried last year, right, which was a little
out of there. They're like, we'll get these two guys
and it ended and there you could tell like that
wasn't really our thing, you know, Russell big personality, fields
got some limitations, but ideally probably not a starter for us.
They didn't like that, and I give them credit for trying.
What they tried, they punted on Kenny Pickett, and clearly
(30:55):
they're like, we're not doing that thing again. Too many
people talking about there, but now they're waiting on Aaron Rodgers.
I don't know, just they're in just a weird space
for a franchise that. I mean, what would you say,
in your lifetime one of the better run American sports
franchises in America?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I thought, until maybe twelve years ago, I thought you
could argue they were the best overall franchise most of
my life. I mean I started watching football nineteen seventy two,
but from like nineteen seventy four, seventy five until maybe
ten to twelve years ago, I thought they were in
the you know, they were in the argument with the Patriots.
(31:33):
You know, Patriots had down years but the Brady years,
but I mean, they were just like well run and
now there it's I always find this this ish is
fascinating to me. Old successful people that can't age well,
and it's it's just really really weird to me. When
you like, when you see Bobby Knight, I'm not going
to do the one and done? Why not do just
(31:55):
want to win games? Like I don't get it or Belichick,
Matt Patricia's the offensive court bill. You're smarter than that.
What are you doing? Like, it's fascinating to me that
all the people in the building in Pittsburgh and they
can't get the offensive line right, they can't get quarterback right,
and they're not I mean, Canny Pikett, I guess was
(32:16):
a swing. But it's like I just it's not that hard.
I think sometimes I underestimate the gap between Like Sean
McVeigh I did this the other day. The Steelers are
the opposite of the Rams. The Rams spend money on
a young, progressive offensive coach, Steelers on an old defensive coach.
(32:39):
One team's made the playoffs like like seven of the
last eight years. The Steelers haven't won a playoff game
in like eight years or something. You know, One team
spends no money on defense. One leads the league in
spending on defense. One never takes a chance on character guys,
(33:00):
like they just they don't put them on their draft board.
One makes a living off that. It's it's almost if
I can't quite figure the Steelers out. They want character,
but nobody's had more divas and high maintenance offensive guys
than the Steelers. They want to win, but then they
don't take care of the number one position like I
(33:20):
just I find them. I feel like there's a messaging
issue in the building. And like Omark Kahan, my sources
don't consider him like a great general manager.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, I know that what was his name, Colbert, the
former GM, I think was really really highly thought of
in the NFL circles by personnel people. I think people
would say that they've dropped off, you know, in terms
of that just the group Kahn and his group relative
to Colbert, I would say. The other thing is, you know,
once the Ravens moved to Baltimore and Aussie and DaCosta
(33:54):
was with him the whole time they had you know,
during the two thousand now they had really good teams,
but they basically played the Steel every year. They became
their rival, and they copied the way they did things
like toughness, hardcore guys, playing any environment, toughest team in
the league. And now over the last decade plus, it's
like we do it better than you, so we had
a front row seat. It's like you're our main competition
(34:16):
in business. We know exactly how you do things. Yet
we're a little more open minded and progressive to the
way that we scout coach, however, and we've now lacked
you because that's what it feels like. The Ravens are
running circles around them, and hell, the Ravens can't even
get over the hump in the playoffs. But they're in
a different universe than the Steelers. And then the Bengals
(34:37):
listen to a lot of people make fun of them,
but they've hit on some players over the years, and
getting Joe Burrow changed that franchise, regardless of how weird
and rinky dink it can feel sometimes, but I do
think the Ravens kind of getting their blueprint and then
modernizing it like the Internet version, has really hurt if
the Ravens were a little bit more of just a
(34:58):
regular run of the mill ten to eleven win team,
but they just have become a dominant NFL team, especially
with Lamar. It has made the Steelers look a lot worse.
I mean, look, anyone could have had Derrick Henry right.
They got him for eight million dollars. Boom, he goes there,
he runs for whatever, almost two thousand yards and they
give him an extension. It's like no brainer. It's like
(35:19):
shouldn't the Steelers have been all over a guy like that.
I mean, they were kicking Najie Harris to the curb.
And I just think that the Steelers are just kind
of in this weird spot. They're too well run and they,
you know, Mike Tomins is too high level of a guy.
They're never gonna suck like. They're never gonna have a
season where it's like, oh, this is the year they
drafted six This is not gonna happen. But drafting sixteenth
to twentieth every year is not a great place to
(35:41):
be either, because they're doing it basically every year for
what a decade plus. They haven't won a playoff game
since they beat Kansas City in the second round. I
think that was Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown and levey On Bell
where they're star offensive players a long time.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, well, last sixteen years, Ravens, including playoffs, have won
the most games in that division, and that was about
I think Steve Bushatti bought the franchise twenty plus years ago,
but it took him a few years to get it right.
And to your point, they think they copied the Steelers
model a little bit. I mean, in that cold weather
part of the country. There are certain absolutes, like you
(36:19):
have to be able to run the football, you have
to play really good defense, you better have good offensive lines.
You're not going to be throwing the ball down the field.
In fact, I could argue before Za Flowers, I just
I didn't think Baltimore drafted wide receivers particularly well. They
drafted everything else exceptionally well. The Steelers draft wide receivers
exceptionally well, but they've had a lot of misses on
the offensive line and quarterbacks and other spaces. So it
(36:41):
is a weird franchise. Okay, this is just a little bit,
a little bit of schedule talk, and that's good. Enjoy it,
have a good weekend.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Everybody see you.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
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