Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Mike Silver on Brady to Niners Theory, Middlekauff on Bears/Panthers Trade, Draft QB’s, Marcus Thompson on Wiggins Absence - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(01:49):
is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast.
So give me six or seven minutes on this um.
I've spent this week overwhelmingly on one time Aaron Rodgers
to the Jets, and I know at times it feels tedious,
but you know, I've something I've said probably twenty five
times in my thirty year career about my shows radio

(02:12):
or TV, is that you the consumer, You the listener,
You drive the bus. So I'm able to, because I'm
on cable television, to see every minute of my ratings
every day. You can't do that on broadcast TV, but
you can do it on cable, and I monitor it,
and I monitor it for one reason. You tell me
what you're bored with, you tell me what you're interested with.

(02:33):
I think the height of arrogance as a broadcaster is
pretending I know every day what's most interesting, so I
follow you and I I And this has happened to
me multiple times over my career that I've loved a topic,
just thought it was absolutely wonderful and fascinating, and the
next day I see my numbers and you didn't give

(02:53):
a shit, and so I move off the topic. There
are things that interest me far more that interest you.
And conversely, there are times I've touched on topics and
I'm really shocked by how much you care. So then
it's my job to make calls, take better notes, figure
out why you like it, and talk about it. So
in the Aaron Rodgers situation of the Jets, it's the

(03:14):
combination of multiple things. The most popular sport in the
country the NFL, the most crucial position quarterback, one gigantic
iconic brand the Green Bay Packers, and the most polarizing
quarterback in the most popular sport Aaron Rodgers. So this
week I can watch my downloads, I can watch my
cable ratings. They've all been really, really good. So I'm
going to spend it in a couple of minutes on this.

(03:37):
I listened to most of the comments, the clips from
Aaron Rodgers on the YouTube Pat McAfee deal, and you know,
that's a friendly place for him to go every week,
and I have no problem with that. I used to
defend our Cineo Hall all the time when people would
bang on our city of the Hall and they said, well,
you know people go on there. He asked puff fluffy questions.

(03:59):
And my takeaways, it's called the Arsenio Hall Show. He
can do whatever he wants. It's his show. You know.
Some people have said, well, McAfee's just it's a comfortable
place for Aaron to go. And my takeaway is it's
pat show. He's a punter, you're not a journalist. He
can do anything he wants with it. I can do
anything I want with my show. But I'm not a
former professional athlete. I don't have a relationship with Aaron,

(04:19):
so I'll defend any broadcaster. This is not The New
York Times I'm in the opinion space. I've said before
I liked Aaron Rodgers more than Brett Farve. I think
he's smarter. I think he's more thoughtful. He's a unique guy.
Probably wouldn't be my kind of guy to hang out with,
but that's okay. You know, there's a lot of great athletes.

(04:41):
You know Tom Brady doesn't have a beer during the season.
I probably wouldn't hang out with him either. I'm drinking
one right now. Her draft picks, by the way, Pilsner.
But I do think the most shocking revelation to me
is that Aaron Rodgers after the retreat said ninety percent
going in he was going to retire, and then he
came out and was surprised the packers moved off him.

(05:01):
It's just remarkable to me that a guy that's that
smart would lack any self awareness. And I'll double down
on this, when you're the center of your universe and
you ghost people, Aaron has a history of ghosting people
who say anything critical of him. You surround yourself with
yes men, and nobody called him out on his ship.

(05:21):
You know, my wife calls me out on mine. My
kids do I got friends that do I have bosses
that would. And so the packers have never had an owner, right,
They don't have an owner who calls him out in
his stuff. If Green Bay had an owner, Aaron Rodgers
would not take eight to nine weeks to make up
his mind, if Jerry Jones or Stan Cronky would call
him up and say, pal make a decision or we're
moving on. So it looks like that's an advantage not

(05:44):
having an owner, But I think it's a disadvantage. It's
a disadvantage for Farv who kept threatening retirement. It's a
disadvantage for Aaron who kept threatening retirement. And neither guy
had anybody that would demand they give him an answer.
And then Aaron's not married. You know, he didn't have
anybody to call him on his crap like our wives do, right,
And so I really do think I call it the

(06:06):
green Bay quarterback syndrome. No owner, smallest city, you basically
own the franchise. And I think ownership at its best
is non meddling, is highly supportive. But but will hold coaches,
star players accountable. That's Robert Kraft. He said, no, we're

(06:28):
not going to trade Tom Brady, We're moving off Jimmy Garoppolo.
It was the right move. Brady still had Super bowls
with New England and Tampa left in the tank, and
Garoppolo's a B quarterback. Some would say SC quarterback got
to a Super Bowl maybe C plus. So I think
the lack of ownership has really hurt Green Bay. The

(06:48):
other thing is they've been overly frugal. An owner can
sometimes step in and say, go get that free agent,
make it work. They don't have that, so in the end,
sometimes in life, things you see as an advantage can
be a real disadvantage. And it may feel like for
far Aaron Rodgers it's such an advantage not having that hovering, meddling,

(07:09):
powerful billionaire. But I think in both cases Farb and
Rodgers kind of took advantage of it, had leverage, manipulated,
used it, and in the end the franchise booted both.
I do think Jordan Love can play. I don't think
he's going to be great. If he was going to
be great, if he was Mahomes or Borough, they would
have already moved off Aaron not given him an extension.

(07:31):
Didn't take very long one training camp a month in
September to figure out Mahomes was really good. Let's move
off Alex Smith, who was a pro bowler and making
the playoffs when they moved off him. I also don't
think he's Zach Wilson or EJ. Manuel, where you know
instantly it doesn't work. He's somewhere in between. My takeaway
is if you look at who the Packers play next

(07:52):
year and the quarterbacks they play on average in the NFC,
they want eight games this year with Aaron, I think
they're about an eight to nine win team next year
with Jordan Love barring some injury. I do think they're
going to get this deal done. I think they're going
to get either a first round pick or a really
good player from the New York Jets. But I don't
see them capsizing at all. I do, however, find it

(08:14):
absolutely remarkable that Aaron Rodgers was surprised when he came
out of the darkness retreat his words not mine, and
the Green Bay Packers had decided to move on. Wow.
You could be pissed. That's different. You could be upset. Okay,
you can't be surprised for the second or third year

(08:37):
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(10:03):
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(10:25):
dot gambler dot net West Virginia. All right, we bring
in host of Open Mike Mike Silver. He is he
is a story breaking maven is what he is So.
Sam Darnold has a lot of Trey Lance qualities. Coachable,

(10:47):
big athlete, mobile, but not spectacularly fast, not a pretty thrower,
not highly accurate, prone to some mistakes, but good in
the room, coachable, big physical athlete for a big physical
team and culture. That's what it felt like to me.

(11:09):
It feels like Trey, Lance and Darnald are battling for
the backup. Though am I too idealistic on this Brock
pretty thing? I think Kyle Shanahan loves Purty. I think
he does. Yeah, he does. And it was settled. It
was over. Purty was the guy. It was. They were
good too. Couldn't even touch his contract for the next

(11:30):
two years, couldn't even renegotiate till two years from now.
Cheap deal, load up around him. Maybe Lance develops and
you flip him, maybe he's your backup. Whatever, it was
all good. And then if Brock Purtty had broken his
leg in that game, nothing would have changed. A tough break, man,

(11:51):
we lost, Brock's the guy. He ripped out an important
link of it in his throwing elbow. So yes, it changed.
So what they hope, and obviously, based on their behavior
so far, what they hope is that's six month timeline

(12:12):
reasonable and if not, maybe it's seven, maybe it's even eight.
But eventually the guy we get back is going to
be the guy we had. He'll be able to throw
it like you threw it before and we're good to go.
And if that happens, then what you said is absolutely right.
But they do have to live in a reality now

(12:32):
where it might not be that way, and sometimes they're setbacks,
sometimes they're scarred tissue. Sometimes it just never comes back
to what it was. I don't think that's likely. I
think the likeliest thing is brock Purty will be back
at some point, you know, not too late in the
twenty twenty three season, looking like he did before. But

(12:56):
you have to hedge. So after last year's entire offseason
of trays the Guy, I trace the guy tras the
Guy and you and I infamously noted during that offseason
that wasn't going super smoothly and accurately. Yeah, we accurately

(13:17):
reported that he wasn't super accurate, that his arm was
experiencing fatigue, and that he wasn't consistent. Um we've since
been thou born to be true by including Trey Lance,
who was disgusted. But um so they have to have
a plan C. I wondered if it would be Matt Ryan,

(13:40):
if he'd want to do it, given his history with Kyle.
I wondered if it would be a Dalton Brissette type
of guy. They went a little younger. Interesting comparison, Darnald
a lance Um. The one thing I'll give the lance
is that Darnold is not known for his intelligence. Not

(14:00):
I'm not I'm not saying Sam Darnold's not intelligent for
the record, I'm just saying he's not known as a
quarterback who just you know, blows you away with hiss
A whiteboard, a whiteboard where trade They saw something intelligence
wise before the draft that got them super super fired up.
So that gives me hope that maybe there's a jump

(14:22):
to be made. So I think Plan A is lance
is the guy. Darnold's the insurance. Maybe Lands starts a
game or two, but Party's the guy. Plan B is man.
Party's not coming along great, but you know what, Lands
stepped up. He's the guy. Darnold's the insurance. Plans C

(14:42):
is Trey's not able to do it. He's gonna have
to be the backup. We'll go with Sam Darnold and
figure it out. Plan A minus, as you know, and
I will. I don't think it's likely, but you know,
John Lynch is going to call Tom Brady in many
or June and go, hey, I know you said for good,

(15:05):
but it's your hometown team because he's the perfect guy
as a hedge against Party. If you don't think Party
is going to be right next year, but you think
he's the guy in the future, you can just do
one year of Brady and still keep that same plan.
It's interesting to me that both the Niners in Miami

(15:26):
have constructed their twenty twenty three rosters to basically say,
we can win now if our quarterback figure works out.
In the Nighters case, Party's elbow comes back or lands
fix a jump. In the Dolphins case too, it doesn't
keep getting concussed. But hey, Tom, wake quake. We're built

(15:47):
to win now. And if you came just for one year, WHOA. No,
you and I are leaning in the same direction. I mean,
that's why the backups Darnald and Mike White are not
really super viable long term pieces. They are your classic

(16:09):
emergency starter, meaning if Purdy goes out, Brady steps in.
Nobody questions whether Brady's the guy right right? Yeah, No,
I totally agree. And again, so you and I can
sit here and say Brady makes a lot of sense.
I know they're gonna at least try. But are we

(16:32):
saying do we know what Tom Brady's gonna want to do? No,
he said for good, So I'm assuming it's for good.
I just know that if you were gonna go back
on that, you've got two really attractive situations, one where
your kids live and you have a place, and one
where you grew up and your parents live. So Jimmy

(16:56):
G to the raiders. You know, Jimmy G. Well, there's
a lot of stories that can now be told because
you don't have to cover him. So I'll throw out
what I've been told by the years, by people in
the building, are around the building. He's a guy's guy.
There are limitations on his arm. Despite being a pretty big,
solid guy. He doesn't have much of a whip. Not

(17:16):
terribly fluid, kind of mechanical. But he's a great locker
room guy, kind of an alpha could at times not
be flaky, but disappear in the off season. They felt
like he relied a lot on God's genetic gift to
him size, chest, confidence, wasn't a workaholic. He's as good

(17:43):
as he should be considering his commitment. Okay, so first
of all, I love Jimmy like I do. And one
reason I love him is because I did write some
of that. Last August or September. I came out with
a thing talking about how they have the press offence
in twenty eighteen. After his five wins, they give him

(18:04):
the money, he's the guy, and then they have the big,
you know, celebration, and then he leaves and they don't
hear from him again for months, and ghosting them over
the off season was habitual, except for the year they
drafted Trey Lance. He was really a tent of that
off season. So I wondered how that was gonna go

(18:25):
for me. After I wrote that, next time I saw Jimmy,
it was all good. And you know that's yet another
I do love Jimmy. I think he's awesome. I love
his temperament. I think he had the best temperament for
Kyle Shanahan, who gets really tightly wound and gruppy on
game day. Sometimes not on game day. I think it
rolled off Jimmy. Well. He was super popular. I think

(18:49):
his arm, don't I wouldn't say anything bad about his arm.
His release is so good. And I don't think they're
five other quarter backs on Earth who really throw it
like he does in terms of release and short range,
short to media rage accuracy like it's You know, there

(19:11):
were a lot of route or plays that were pointed
out to me where people said it looked like Jimmy
went through his reads and led this guy perfectly. What
might have happened here is Jimmy saw it late, but
he gets it out so quick and so perfectly that
it just looked like that. So I do think his

(19:34):
arm is really good. People have talked about his deep balls.
I don't know. So anyway, is Jimmy Garoppolo. You know,
there's a lot of quarterbacks who are not grinders. One
of them we suspect in Arizona because they put a
clause in his contract about video games. One of them

(19:54):
is trying to get a fully guaranteed deal. Now we
should talk about that. By all metrics, he deserves relative
to Deshaun Watson, and he deserves to get paid way
more than Daniel Jones, etc. But I think one of
the things hurting Lamar is this perception that he's not
grinding in terms of off the field, and Jimmy is

(20:18):
another guy who has acquired that reputation, and you know,
will that change with Josh and Vegas probably if you
look at how he acted when they drafted Lance Yes,
and also look, I love I love Jimmy in twenty
twenty two, I don't give it f Jimmy, which was liberating.

(20:43):
And I told him, you know, in late December what
he was hurt. I said, dude, you realize that the
most Niner thing ever is going to be for you
to somehow come back and play the Super Bowl like
it just is. And there was a moment sitting in
that stadium with the link early where I'm like, purdies out,
Josh Judson's in, Christian McCaffrey just ran through five dudes.

(21:06):
They're tied, and I'm like, it's gonna happen. Josh Judson's
gonna win this game somehow, and Jimmy Garoppolo is gonna
come back in two weeks and start the Super Bowl
against Patrick mahofs. So it didn't get quite that far,
but I don't want to discount what he did. He
really bailed about last year. He played at a pro

(21:27):
Bowl level. He got hurt. There was some tension after
he got hurt. The way it was explained to me
is that you know, Trey Lance, who was hurt, was
coming to every meeting and really was engaged with Brock.
Jimmy's style was to not show up a lot. Kyle
had never specifically said this is mandatory, get your butt

(21:49):
in here, and so he wasn't disobeying anything. It was
just a different approach. And it's possible that that's what
Jimmy was taught in New England, by the way that
Bill's approach is when you're injured, just you know, stay
out of it. But that if there was any tension
at the end, you know, it was a three year breakup,
so of course there was tu shit. But if there

(22:10):
was tension at the end, Kyle, I think, was frustrated
that Jimmy wasn't hanging around the way Trey was. So
I do want to move segue into Lamar Jackson. Years ago,
Kirk Cousins got a guaranteed contract. It was highly criticized, dubious,
too expensive. Minnesota was pretty desperate in a division with

(22:32):
Aaron Rodgers, and so they offered it and Kirk, you know,
with a chip on his shoulder, said I'm going to
sign it. However, moving forward, nobody else offered a guaranteed contract,
including the significantly more talented Aaron Rodgers. My takeaway has
always been I've seen this since I ran the volume.
I'll make people an offer. I'm not going to offer

(22:54):
you something just because I feel an inferior podcast company
makes you an egregious offer. So Cleveland's a desperate franchise,
much more desperate than Minnesota was with Kirk Cousins. I
don't believe Baltimore, a highly functional organization, should look at
Cleveland and go, well, they set the market. If you're
not available on Sunday, I can't give you a fully

(23:19):
guaranteed contract, right you have to I have to be guaranteed,
you know, buy and large. Brady showed up every Sunday
Five showed up, Eli Manning showed up, Daniel Jones shows up.
There are guys that get dinged up for a variety
of reasons. I love Lamar, but I worry that it's
now personal because he doesn't have an agent. And when

(23:40):
you don't have an agent, it does get personal because
you are discussing people who are, if not lamenting, they
are discussing your weaknesses and liabilities face to face. That's
why I have an agent. Mike, So I don't have
to deal with these kind of conversations, which is why
when you and I renegotiate our deal, will use agents

(24:01):
and they can do all that crap take the arrows
for us exactly. Yeah. So, first of all, I believe
the Ravens are not shiny organizationally, and I have been
as big a fan of that organization publicly as anyone
for a long long time. I think they've botched this too.

(24:22):
I have written that they effed around and found out
they were willing to go into the season, go and
find we'll just play it out with Lamar and am
I saying Lamar intentionally sat out all those games to
spite them. No, but he didn't have that feeling that

(24:43):
he was taken care of. And his coach came out
publicly and was like, hey, I think he'll be back
in a week or two, and which you know, I
don't love if I'm a player with a bad D.
And they lost a winnable playoff game potentially against the
Bengals they didn't have him, So they've budged it too.

(25:05):
And if it's personal, maybe it's personal in their ed too,
but they've budged it so let's let's assess a. Would
it be easier if he had an agent? Yes, it
would be easier. Doesn't mean he has to, doesn't. You
know Roquan Smith doesn't have an agent and they got
their thing done. It would be easier, especially right now
gauging the market all that. It would be better I

(25:26):
think for everyone. But you know that's not my decision.
Um is. I'm told to Colin that Lamar's Lamar can't
get past, and we've all been there right in our careers.
Lamar can't get past. I'm better than Deshaun Watson, and

(25:47):
I'm not screwing up off the field like and I'm
not saying he's wrong. I think he is totally. Absolutely,
He's always been a better thrower than anybody wants to admit.
So so the you know, Gene Hackman's fallen sheriff in
unforgiven says to Clint Eastwood, you know, I don't deserve this,

(26:10):
and you know Clint says, who's got nothing to do
with it? You know deserves got nothing to do with it.
He deserves to get a guaranteed deal more than Deshaun
Watson or Kirk Cousins. Yes, he deserves to get paid
more than Daniel Jones, for Heaven's sake. For Heaven's sake,
Daniel Jones, I mean, come on, that's that deal's not

(26:31):
going to age. Well, I'm sorry, but as you know,
it's all about circumstance and leverage. And he could have
signed after year three, gotten a bunch of money upfront,
and now be trying to renegotiate from strength. He didn't
do that. He didn't do what Kirk Cousins did and
play out two franchise tags and putting his organization in

(26:52):
a box to the point where they blinked and took
Alex Smith and he was free. And they didn't do
what Deshaun Watch. He hasn't done with Deshaun Watson did
him Maybe he will, But Deshaun Watson showed up at
training camp uncomfortably with an organization that didn't want him,
reporters hounding him about something he didn't want to talk about,

(27:14):
and fans checking out a circus, and he knew he
wasn't gonna play. It turned out he wasn't gonna play
for you know, almost a year and a half from
that point. But by doing that and having the will
to do that he created leverage and the Browns were
desperate and he got that deal. So you know, you

(27:36):
put all those things together, and if you're Lebar Jackson,
well you don't have that kind of leverage or you
haven't exerted that kind of will, now, could you. Yeah,
you could say I've not played for thirty two million,
go ahead and have fun with Tyler Huntley, and I'm

(27:56):
just gonna sit away. I'm not saying he should, but
he could do. You think the Ravens, frustrated by it,
would just say we're gonna move on. We're gonna draft
another quarterback because we like our roster, our culture, our coach,
and our defense. You know, maybe, but I also think
we're living in a weird world where, yeah, no one
has stepped up and offered Lamar because partly because a

(28:21):
lot of teams think we're just doing the Ravens work
for him. We're gonna give him this deal he likes,
and they're gonna match it, and we're going to alienate
the people we have. The quarterbacks we have now who
knew we were trying to replace him, So why would
we do that if if Lamar were free? First of all,

(28:42):
different story. Second, of all, Let's be honest, desperation isn't
confined to the Cleveland Browns, and there aren't that many
really good quarterbacks, which is why you and I are
talking about ninety three year old Tom Brady. Sorry, Tom,
I know you're only forty five. Yeah, that's why we're
talking about to Brady. That's why we're talking about Lists

(29:02):
and Aaron Rodgers. There are only so many transcended ones,
and I think Lamar's transcend it. I'll stick up for
Lamar as a player. I think he's one of the very,
very best. He won seventy five percent of his starts
in the AFC. Yeah. The only you know, I think
there is a little PTSD from the Russell Wilson trade, honestly,
because for ten years we saw a guy be transcended

(29:26):
in my opinion, and then oh whoa, he looks nothing
like that guy. And by the way, Geno Smith is
now a pro bowler in his place. So that was
that through people. But at some point if Lamar Jackson
was like, I'm not playing for you, I'm sitting out,
at some point some owner or some GM or some

(29:47):
coach or all three are gonna be like, man, our
quarterback stakes. We're all gonna get fired, or if you're
the owner, we're gonna lose. But we could go get
that guy, Just go get him. John Middlecough Azol was
full of insight. Let's go in to it. The Jalen
Ramsey move a third and basically a bust tied end

(30:10):
from the Dolphins who does doesn't play much is that's
not nearly I'm not sure why they were so impatient.
It feels like a salary dump. They're trying to clear
something up to make a big move in free agency.
That's that's what it felt like to me. Now, I
don't think Jalen Ramsey's ever been a guy you build
a culture around at Florida State, Jacksonville or LA. He's
just really talented. But I think the guys that you

(30:33):
build a culture around, like Aaron Donald Are Cooper Cup
are harder to get rid of. Talent comes and goes,
and so I think Jayalen's really talented. He's he had
a very good last game with the rams and interception.
You know, I'm not sure if it was the best
place for the Dolphins to spend money. They already have

(30:55):
a corner people like, but their secondaries not very strong.
They're all in, yeah, but but for the Rams, it
just felt like they're starting over. You know, they've got
four sevens, four or fives. They now have a second,
two thirds. They don't have a first or a fourth yet.
So they got twelve draft picks. They're kind of rebuilding
this puppy. Before we dive into my theory on the

(31:18):
Dolphins and why I think I think this might be
leading to something, one thing on McVeigh is, you know,
the knock on Gruden over his ten year as coaching,
was very impatient, you know, changes on your fast. Lebron
has some of that, and you know he loves a
guy that he starts playing with him any sours on him,
And like, I don't have the theory that they're going
to tank because McVeigh almost jumped off a bridge last

(31:41):
year losing a little bit. He's not going to coach
a season and suck and he's too good to ever
probably get the top two or three picks, especially next
year with the with the quarterbacks. But you know he
loved Matt Stafford two years ago. They traded for him,
then they extend him. Now he's banged up and it
feels like, oh, they might trade him or they would
definitely listen to it. Well, so he was good enough

(32:02):
to give all this money too, and a year later
things get weird. I'm Sean McVeigh guy, but it does
feel he's got a little Gruden in him that he'll
change on you fast once he thinks you're not as
good as he maybe thought six months previously. So I
was told a month ago, and I've set it on
the air at Fox. I was told a month ago
that the Rams were going to go heavy this offseason

(32:24):
to the offense. McVeigh would come back if there was
a commitment to I'm an offensive coach. The league's pivoted
to that. Give me guys. So who did they get
rid of? Bobby Wagner, Jalen Ramsey, Floyd. They've moved off
defensive guys. So they're gonna draft. They have a second
and two thirds. They're probably gonna go after an offensive lineman,
a wide receiver. They may go out for a running back.

(32:47):
Mcphay's like, listen, if I'm going to come back for
this thing and have to face the Niners, you gotta
get me some weapons. You gotta give me some help
on the offensive side. I mean, of all the people
in the Ramsey trade, they got like a third string
tight end. You know, I thought I would have thought
they would have gone to a backup edge because they
don't really have an edge rusher. But you know, I
listen mcvagh had a lot of success early. People that

(33:09):
do off and get impatient. They haven't had the long road,
the struggle like the rest of us. Right, So you know,
I get it. You probably see that in tech, you
see it in football that you probably see it in
Hollywood when somebody hits it at twenty eight thirty two
years old. Man, your standards and impatience rise. The Dolphins
I think over the weekend or maybe late last week

(33:31):
they picked up two a fifth year option. I thought
that was nuts, you know, given his risk history. But
then when they made this trade, I was like, well,
I think you had mentioned last week and has come
out since you know the Brady buzz is not going
to die. Well, what did they do? They get Vick Fanjio,
They add Jalen Ramsey. They kind of had their backup
plan long term, just keep two under contract. Tom Brady

(33:54):
and coming to San Jose. It's just not happening, right,
But Miami, he's already he's getting the taste of the
life in Florida now for a couple of years, the
no state income tax. I think the Dolphins buzz is
about to pick up, and they're equipped. I mean now
that their defense was a question mark boom at a
star corner, you know, add Vic Fangio. I mean, that's
this team. You see that that clip of Tyreek Hill

(34:15):
running dusting those guys in the sixty meter dash. So
you're the one that I think I saw a clip
of you saying that. The Tom Brady thing, well, people
are it's not going to die. Yeah, I mean, okay,
so Tom, it's not like you know, he's single now,
so he's gonna he's not gonna broadcast at Fox. He's
gonna sit around for a year, just watch football. Tom's connected,

(34:38):
Um And I just think, you know, people say, oh,
you spend more time with your family. Kids after a
while don't want to hang out with mom and dad.
They want to hang out with little kids, their peers. Right,
So I think Brady um Hill step he work six
months a year. I mean, you get six months with
his family, I know, and whenever you hear you know,
I'm gonna go spend time with my family. It's like,

(35:00):
you know, guys get off days even in the season.
You know you're not You're not at the facility all day.
So I think if you have a popular player Tebow
in Denver and they brought in Peyton Manning, you gotta
go big. Nobody's gonna question Brady fills in for Tua
or Peyton Manning for Tebow because Tua will have success

(35:21):
with Mike McDaniels. Hell, he was leading in the Pro
Bowl voting last year, right, So I don't know what's
gonna happen with Tom Brady. I don't have it sourced,
but I did have somebody I trust out of the building,
not a Fox employee, say he may play football, So
you know it was somebody who's smart, somebody I've trusted
for years. So he obviously heard it somewhere. But I

(35:43):
said this a year ago, and I'll say it again.
I thought Aaron Rodgers in Miami made sense. I really
dig in. Yeah, a big star because TWA's got his fans,
two is going to have success. Nobody's complaining about Rogers
or Brady in Miami, And I think sometimes when you're
place a popular I mean, let's face it, last year,
up until Thanksgiving, the Dolphins were one of the better

(36:06):
stories in the league. I found pretty laughable the reaction
to the Lamar collusion. No one wants him. Last year
to Shaun Watson was given two hundred and thirty million
dollars and we all laughed at like, that's the most
insane contract. Only at one or two guys in the
league would do that. This guy wants that contract and
no one will touch it. Well, we just said last
year that that contract that he wants is moronic. No

(36:28):
one would do that. Good player, but under no circumstances.
If I owned a team or ran a team, I
would trade for the player if I get him for
a normal quarterback contract. But I can't pay him a
guy who's been injured, and it's not he doesn't guarantee
me anything. He's got one playoff win. Well, yeah, I mean,
you want guaranteed money, You're not guaranteed to play Sunday.
Of his last twenty two games, he's missed forty percent.

(36:48):
He's missed ten. So nobody wants to say this because
it feels like you're taking a shot at Lamar's mom,
but he needs an agent. Agents do two things. First
of all, teams are now taking shots at Lamar. Why
because they don't he doesn't have an agent. You would
never take a shot at a star player because he

(37:09):
has an agent. And an agent represents lots and lots
of people, So you don't want to piss off an
agent because then he'll steer his clients against you or
away from you. When you don't have an agent, and
I've had several of my career, it's a vest. It's
a little bit like a protective vest. Is that the
agent keeps you out of the room with your boss
so it doesn't get emotional. The agent make sure they

(37:32):
say nice things about you. A good, powerful agent matters.
He's using his mom, and reportedly now he's doing some
of it. You know, he's moved her off that. It's like, dude,
I got no you know if my mom represented me
or yours, did they get emotional? Were their sons? So
I think when he did that, you know, I tried
to tread lightly and be respectful. You can't have a

(37:54):
parent be your agent. Come on now. Charles Robinson wrote
a really good article where he got a lot of
unnamed people in the league, GMS and agents talking and
this point. Listen, Mike mcglinchey's gonna sign in a couple
of days. The owner just gives the GM the thumbs up.
But when you're doing a contract like this two hundred
plus million dollars guarantee, that's an owner run deal, and
these agents go right to the owner. This is not

(38:17):
the GM and the coach ultimately aren't the final say
on this one, right like they would be with a
signing a wide receiver or this is the biggest contract
that team has ever given out in the history of
the league potentially, So that's coming from the owner and
he has no direct path to the owner. I mean,
it's just it's if me and you owned a condo
for two hundred grand, we could figure out how to

(38:38):
sell it on our own. If we wanted a two
hundred million dollars piece of property, we probably get some
representation to help us out on the deal. Right right,
the amount of money that's on the line is too enormous,
Like he's at he's at a major disadvantage, and the
Ravens know it, and that's why they did don exclusive tag.
They go, We're not even gonna pay as much, and
we're not worried about people bidding for your services because

(38:59):
you don't really know what you're doing. I also think
the culture is so strong that between the GM, the owner,
the roster, the defense, the assistance, there's kind of a
feeling in Baltimore. Last year. I mean, shit, they went
toe to toe with the Bengals twice at the end
of the year with like third string guys, and we're
Cincinnati needed a miracle touchdown to win one of those games.

(39:22):
So I think they look at themselves and think, you know,
we're really at an a level in terms of drafting
and developing. If we have to go get Max Duggan
in the second round or we have to go get
somebody we like, we will. So I mean, they've won
a super Bowl with Joe Flacco, Trent Dilfer. They gambled
on Lamar Jackson to some degree. You know, a lot

(39:43):
of people thought he wouldn't be great. They've been able
to find quarterbacks who others bailed on, who are different
and they've got success with all of them. So I
always just sort of trust the Ravens to figure it out.
Have a ruler in life you don't have to always
hire an expert. Hire smart people and they'll figure out

(40:07):
complex problems. Baltimore is really good at that. Speaking of
a team that's trying to find their identity, that the
big trade, that the draft trade that happened, I guess
would that have been Friday night? On the panther side,
this feels like it's got Dave Tepper written all over it.
He's a financial wheeler and dealer. He's getting bored, he's
getting tired of losing, because that's a lot to give

(40:30):
up Colin for this. Trevor Lawrence not in this draft,
you know, and they've even it's been reported they don't
even know exactly who they're taking. Last time the Niners
try to do something like that, that's I would not
operate making a trade without the player that you know,
just to figure out two or three guys, and this
is one of those. You know, if Bryce Young hits,
then it looks like a brilliant move. But I thought

(40:54):
Chicago essentially solved, you know, people banged on the Chase
Claypool move. But now the receiving corps DJ Moore Cole
commet very capable young tight end Darnell Mooney a solid
two and Chase Claypool, so they don't really have to
go after a wide receiver in the draft. And they've
got multiple extra picks so they can attack the interior offensive.

(41:16):
They're going to get McGlinchey the right tackle from the Niners. Yeah,
by you know, they drafted some offensive lineman last year.
A couple of them can play. You know, they could
kind of go solve their defense, so justin fields doesn't
have to be in shootouts. But I mean Cole Commet, Mooney, Claypool.
But DJ Moore was getting a thousand yards of season
with Kyle Allen, Darnald Baker Mayfield. I couldn't believe. I

(41:40):
understand given away first in two seconds throwing Dj Moore.
And by the way, so you draft a young quarterback,
you just lost your best receiver for him. I didn't
like that addition. At I would have given you a corner,
I'd have given you something. I would not have given
you your best I wouldn't if I'm Caroline, I'm not
giving you Dj Moore. They just extended him last year,

(42:01):
so he's under contract for the foreseeable future. I thought,
this is kudos to Ryan Pace because he can do
two things. One find out if fields can play now
he's got weapons, and if he can't, he has the
Panthers pick. They're probably not going to be great. And
if his team stinks, they'd have two high picks to
go up and get one of these quarterbacks next year,
so that they're actually getting the best of both worlds. Yeah,
Ryan Poles is the kid, and I did last year

(42:26):
and he got a corner and a safety to start.
He got a receiver of Vilas Jones out of Tennessee
who played at USC. I could have told him he
can't track the ball. He couldn't at USC, could never
track the ball. So I still don't trust this organization
to draft and develop offensive players. But I do think
what happens after that trade John is now we have clarity.
There'll be no more excuses. Their running backs are serviceable,

(42:49):
Cole comits a very nice young tied end. Now you
have a real grown up wide receiver group. They're going
to pay for a right tackle. Their offensive line last
year rated fourteenth. It wasn't the Giants, it wasn't thirty second,
it was fourteenth, and they're gonna upgrade it. So it's
going to be a reasonable offensive line. What it gives
you John, now, whatever Justin Fields does. This is the truth.

(43:11):
He has more than enough talent. Now you can't say
he doesn't have this. This This Claypool, Mooney DJ Moore
are three very nice professional wide receivers see and I
think on the panther side, I just wonder if if
Tepper gets involved on who they ultimately want to pick
and it's not the coach and not the general manners decision.

(43:34):
I think Bryce Young is an elite player. He's just short,
which you know can be risky. But you know we've
seen him two years ago played they played Georgia twice
in you know, a month, and went toe to toe
with them with a defense full of eleven pros and
like first round pros. Yeah, but he's just he's just small.
And you know, Anthony Richardson I was texting with Daniel
Jeremiah because Anthony richards I said, what round would those

(43:58):
guys gone in when you first broke in the league.
Guys like Anthony Richardson and Will Levis who are just big,
physical guys. But you know, I have a long way
to go. He's like those guys would have been mid
round picks. Now both of them are gonna go in
the top five. So this notion that that position it's
so nuanced, it's so hard. You can't just draft like
you can't a defensive tackle and hope he figures it
out because the time in time they don't, and whoever

(44:19):
they pick has this enormous pressure. I've seen it with
Trey Lance, all these picks, the whole trade. It just
hangs over you forever. If things don't go well, it's hard. Well,
the Colts, I think should move up to three because
if somebody moves up in front of them, they're gonna
get the fourth quarterback in an average quarterback draft. That
would worry me. Now again, there's Max Duggan's going to

(44:41):
be a second or a third round guy, and there's
a lot of people that think, you know, a team
like Indy could get him. I'll tell you this about
I had somebody text me on this inside the league.
It's pretty interesting. So I said, you know, Will Levis's
family has some IVY League connections. He's a four point student.
He's big, thick kid, good arm. And somebody texts me
in the league and said, look how chiseled he is.

(45:05):
He said name the great quarterbacks that are chiseled, they
don't exist. Is that when you get you ever go
you ever go to the gym and see a wait,
look to try to play basketball. How stiff you are.
There's no fluidity, no fluidity. And and so this person said,
he is this is a danger sign. He's jacked, he's ripped,

(45:26):
and he comes off sometimes as a little bit stiff.
He doesn't come off as fluid. And he's strong. He's
a smart kid. But the Will Levis stuff is interesting
because you know there's so much of it. You like
Ivy League family, huge arm. You know, his numbers look
like Eli Manning's out of old miss, a non traditional

(45:46):
SEC quarterback who you know, like one seventeen games in
two years for a basketball school. It kind of feels Eli.
But the person who texts me, he's just like, you know,
go look up the chiseled orderbacks. It's like you see
Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning with a tight shirt on.
They they're big, they got more of a chest, but

(46:11):
you don't see you don't see ripped guys. It's not
what you have to be loosed. That's why apply on
metrics and Brady, You've got to be loose. You've got
to be able to be flexible and move your feet,
move your hips, and Levis is just ripped and jacked.
All right, let's bring on Marcus Thompson. I've said this

(46:32):
before in my career. My job is to tell you
what I know, but I don't always need to know
the why. Sometimes it's none of my business. The Andrew
Wiggins situation is really none of my business. I know
it's very serious. It's a family matter. What I was told,
and now I have two people that have said it's

(46:53):
really really serious. The Warriors totally support him, but there
is some doubt if he'll be available going forward. There's
no certainty, there's real doubt. So let's bring in Marcus.
You know a lot more than I do. I have
been told it's extremely serious and the Warriors completely respect

(47:13):
his privacy. And so again that's none of my business.
I'm not talking anybody's fam that's none of my business.
Let's talk about availability. You're reporting, you're sourcing, You're guessing.
Is it a reasonable assumption that he would miss the
regular season but perhaps be a postseason participant. You know,

(47:35):
it's possible depending on who you talk to. There's some
people who expect him to be back. There's some people
who don't want to put that on him, right, like, hey, dude,
what you gotta do. We don't really want to pressure you, right,
you know, you got to handle this. The difficulty about
that proposition of missing the regular season to come back
from the playoffs is who you're getting. I mean, that's

(47:59):
two months, two months of no basketball. I doubt he's
picked up the ball a ball, right not to guess
his condition. It wouldn't be great, So it would be
a tall order to ask him, and then we don't
know what his mental condition will be. We know this,
this dude doesn't miss games, like he just doesn't. I
mean his first six years he missed like four total games. Like,

(48:21):
he doesn't miss games. So whatever it is, it's got
to be it's incredibly serious. Whatever it is. There's a
locker room with dudes who want to win a championship
who are like, oh, this is bad, Like you handle that, like,
we're not even mad. So I don't know how. I
don't know how you come back from that in the
middle of a playoff setting and produce. I mean, we've

(48:42):
seen crazy things but that would be a lot to ask,
So I think they just have to start preparing mentally
for the fact that he won't be there, and if
he comes, like that's a bonus. Yeah. I mean, they
wanted Jonathan Kaminga perhaps to develop. He's very twitchy, very athletic,
can be very forceful around the rim. They wanted him

(49:04):
to develop. He doesn't have the touch, He's not the
defensive player yet of Wiggins, but he's wildly athletic. But
if you could get twelve minutes to night. He didn't
do squat in the playoffs last year because Kurt didn't
trust him. Yet, do you think Steve Kerr trusts him
because Iggy now has an injury? How many minutes per
night in the playoff game? Do you believe Steve Kerr
would be comfortable with Jonathan Kuminga. I don't really think

(49:27):
he has a choice. I mean, the other option is
a two way guy that they're probably going to convert,
Anthony Lamb. So, I mean, jeez, Comigo was never seven pick.
I do think he does a couple of things that
the words could use, Like he's a ball pressure. He's
good at that, So at some point they'll use him.
I think it's somewhere between twelve forty minutes, depending on

(49:50):
how he plays. Right, it'll probably get twelve baked in
maybe fifteen. If they're not good, especially in that second half,
then he just won't go back to him. Like that's
that's kind of how Steve has been. If he's playing
really well, if he's giving somebody problems, now you up
it because they need it. They don't have a lot

(50:11):
of other defensive options, right, Like they don't have a
lot of lockdown guys. I mean, here's the interesting part this,
Gary Payton is second make it back and how does
that impact Because if if you don't get Wiggins and
you don't have a GP two, the only other guy
who can do what they what they do is doctor
d Vincenzo and Jonathan can be here. That's it. The

(50:32):
rest is like, y'oll beat you also dribble, So it's
almost like, yo, what do you have to lose anyway?
Just run out there. If you don't win, you probably
are the seventh seed anyways, So would you expect well,
Clay Thompson's having his best year and maybe sex he
is absolutely great. Jordan pool Deep and Genzo, Steph Curry

(50:53):
had fifty against the Clippers. So it's a team that's
guard heavy, and if things don't work out with the loss,
with the movement of Wiseman and Wiggins, they're a small
team and they're not going to be as good defensively.
So you know I've said this before, I have thrown
this out there. Is that because Steph can still be
on any night the best player in the league on

(51:13):
any night against anybody. Clay has rebounded with an all
star level second half in performance. Draymond is still a catalyst. Wiggins,
we presume would come back. I'll throw it out there.
If they got into the playoffs and got pushed around
by a big, forget em beat or Jannis. I'm talking Yokich.
They got pushed around a little bit by a big.

(51:36):
They have the arsenal of guards now, especially scoring guards.
They're not moving Steph, but Jordan Poole, you know they've
got enough guys they can move this team. I still
believe believes we got a championship left. Could you see
them going out and getting and I'll throw a big

(51:56):
at you. You don't have to. He'll give you twenty
two points a night without designing a single play for him,
Anthony Davis and just say, listen, we know you're not
giving us thirty eight minutes, and we know you're not
giving us eighty two games. We're not asking that. And
because I look at the Warriors and I think to myself,
right now, I've lost confidence without Wiggins and Iggy, I

(52:19):
don't think. I don't think they can get to the
NBA Finals. I don't now the break is of course,
Marcus k D's out, and you know that's a big thing.
And I don't trust the Clippers. Have you let's start
with this. Have you lost confidence in this team going
forward getting to the finals? Yeah, no question. They can't

(52:41):
win on the road. They lose the team as they
should beat. I always thought it was gonna be tough anyway,
Like repeating is not easy, Like it's not that's not
now a team to do it. So even if they
brought back the same team, it's not like what they
had KD. And it was like, all right, we're we're
about to repeat, Like normally it gets harder in the
second year, But now I think they're they'll upset somebody.

(53:06):
Right That third series though, would be tough because whatever
they do it's gonna be on stuff, it's gonna be
on play right, it's gonna be on Dray Run. And
now it's like you fight through one series, right, you
upset somebody, you get another series that's gonna be harder.
Now you can start to see it take toll, because
keep in mind, they've been playing hard all year. It's

(53:27):
not it's not like twenty eighteen, eight, twenty nineteen when
they were chilling on like all right, we're here for
our finals run. Like, no, they've been They've been trying
to be teams. So the difficulty I see is they've
been putting in a lot of work and on the
back end that catches up. We've seen this before twenty
sixteen they chase seventy three, you know, got up three

(53:49):
one and the legs are gone, right, and that's obviously
a better setting for them, But it's just tough to
envision and winning three series to get to the fire
and didn't win a four for him, like that's a lot.
I just think they need to have a good showing
and if they knock off Yo Kitch or knock off KD,
that's something real. Now you're talking about all right, steps

(54:10):
still legit who were keeping out of Draymond in Clay
or maybe Draymond's like, yo, I'm out, I got an
opt out of somebody wants to pay be a max,
I'm out. Those are the decisions here's I don't think
the rest. I don't think they're going Anthony Davis, the owner,
wants to go young. That was the whole Wiseman thing.
I don't want a bunch of thirty five year olds

(54:31):
so when they fall off, we're like a lottery team again.
He doesn't want to do that. He wants somebody young.
He wants to swap out Steff and make it a
seamless transition to the next guy. So I think he'll
want a guy who's young and ready to play. He
wanted Steve Kirks, who played the young guys this year.
So I don't think he's going thirty plus. He's going.

(54:52):
He might go twenty five. That might be the compromise
instead of twenty one. It'll be twenty five. It's there,
but it won't be it won't be enough, the thirties
something unless he just asides, let's ride the wheels till
they fall off with Stephen them. So most have observed
and speculated that the Draymond pool punch created a bit

(55:13):
of a rift and a chasm between young and old
guys in the locker room. And they note, and I
think with some accuracy, that it's a bad road team,
and on the road is where unity factors in. There's
almost no explanation markets for being abysmal ship there as
bad as the Rockets in the Orlando Magic and Detroit
on the road. Do you believe it? Does? It does

(55:36):
feel like this is maybe a clickier team, that the
gap between young and old is sizable. Oh, I thought
that that was true from the beginning. I mean, it's
like literally like a red sea in between them. Right.
I got the old kids who want championships, and then
you have like the home room squad. Right, you got
the Hall of Fame, and you got the home room.
They got six guys who have done much before in

(56:01):
the league, and then you have this super high bar
of championship standard. Right. It was already like that, I mean,
just tangibly just thinking about who they are at their ages, right,
Like I mean Steph is an ancients guy in the league, right,
he gets along with everybody, but he's thirty five he's
got like kids and stuff, Like he's got an ira counclibility,

(56:23):
Like he's not hanging out with twenty one year old
like he'll do you know, he can put his arm
around the guy in the locker room and all that,
but got teenage daughters. They just don't have anything in common.
And you could look in the locker room and you
could say this is this is this team looks like
they're having a bit of fun. There's some like gelling

(56:44):
that you probably didn't think happened after somebody got rocked
in training camp, right, But what you can't really there's
this like unintangible part of the punch that you can't quantify, right,
Like what happens if they don't have that and they
get off to a start in the chemistry is great,
and now they don't lose five straight road games to

(57:06):
start the season. Like it's like it's almost like not
saving money. You know what I'm saying. You don't lose money,
but you don't know you don't know what you would
have done if you would have invested it, right, So
we don't know how that impacted the season. All we
know is they are also a rough start. It was
kind of a mess and it felt like a set
of tone for the season. So even if they're fine now, right,

(57:28):
even if they're like they've overcome in and gotten through it,
there was a cost that they paid that we can
kind of see now. And I think it again on
the road first out the back five game road trip,
they lose in the Charlotte and Orlando right like, and
they're playing like Stephan It's not like they had a
bunch of young guys. They weren't able to close against
bad teams to start that on five road trip set

(57:50):
of tone. So I think there is an intangible like
costs from that, even if they might have gotten through it.
And since let's pull it back to Andrew Wiggins and
you know, again I put it out there. I had
a couple of people tell me they doubted strongly he
would return. And my takeaway, as I believe people, has

(58:11):
it been an uncomfortable story for you because you are
a journalist, You're a guy that is constantly looking to
uncover things. When you wrote your KD book, Steff book,
you gave me nuggets that I never knew that's what
you do. Has it been hard to cover it knowing
it's intensely private. The organization's not going to let it out.

(58:33):
But your job is to cover stuff and uncover stuff.
It hasn't been hard because this team just has fifty
eight storylines all the time, right, So we could always
fall back on you know, right about Steff, right about thing,
right about Drakemond. But the difficulty is this is one
of the rare situations where nobody's telling you anything. That's

(58:56):
the difficulty, right. It's like they're they've they've really kind
of closed ranks. And this is the same team where
they had a videotape leak, right, like an unprecedented leak
of a practice punch. So I think they just got
so fed up that they were like, this is one
we're going to stop, right, And that to me is

(59:19):
the most difficult part. Where it's like you talk to
people and the people who normally be like, hey, man,
I'm telling you what's going on, don't write it. Even
they're like, yeah, we can't. We're not telling you anything
because just know it's bad and just trust us. Right,
So in that sense, it's been It's not difficult because
like I mean, these are pros man, they won championships.

(59:40):
You know, if there was a player who they thought
to be on the court and wasn't on the court,
they wouldn't know how to bite their tongue. Like Draymond
will pop off on the volume right on volume sports,
someone why is this guy not playing? So when these
dudes who are professionals at the highest level, right, who
are winners, they're like, man, this is bad, Like we

(01:00:01):
we we support them, we rock with him. We're not
We're not gonna throw like, you know, throw them under
the bus or anything like that. It's easy to trust
them because you kind of know who they are and
you know what they are. But I haven't been it's
been a long time college since I couldn't find out
like the inner details, you know what I'm saying, Like,
it's been a while. And that's a testamental Wiggins. Like Wiggins,

(01:00:25):
he doesn't put himself out there like that, and that's
just kind of been his his deal and some guys
like for most people, as you know, it's hard to
shut people up. This whole industry runs on the fact
that people don't know how to shut up. Right. So
for Wiggins, though, like he doesn't put himself out there
like that. He's very private, and they are respecting it,
and I kind of I respect him for that right,

(01:00:47):
like I respect him for saying no, not not in
this situation, because you know, they've literally had fights in
practice that we found out of that literally the volume.

(01:01:15):
Make sure to check out The Draymond Green Show. I
brought Draymond Green into the Volume because one of the
more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective understands behind the rope.
Also chops up with guests like Gary Peyton, Zach Levine,
Tracy McGrady. Make sure download The Draymond Green Show wherever
you get your podcasts, only on the Volume podcast Network

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Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Mike Silver on Brady to Niners Theory, Middlekauff on Bears/Panthers Trade, Draft QB’s, Marcus Thompson on Wiggins Absence

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Colin Cowherd

Jason McIntyre

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