Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, Colin is joined by Danny Parkins, host of “Parkins & Spiegel” on 670 The Score in Chicago.
They move on to the NFL’s cultural dominance and why the ascendance of Caitlin Clark and the WNBA has been a breath of fresh air (3:30) . Then they trade both their hottest sports takes (8:00) and the hot take they are most proud of (13:15)
Then, Colin is joined by best-selling author Ian O’Connor to talk about his new book about Aaron Rodgers, “Out of the Darkness”. They start with a deep dive into Aaron’s artistics and contrarian personality (22:30), why Aaron is terrible at coming from behind in games (26:45) and why Green Bay was a surprisingly good fit for a kid from Berkeley, California (32:15).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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Speaker 4 (01:57):
Well he filled in for me last week.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Popular talk show host in Chicago, really talented guy, Danny Parkins.
I never wanted to be an eighty percent NFL show.
And as I've done this, the longer I've done this,
the NFL now has so separated, for a variety of
reasons from every other sport that there was a point
about a year or two ago when college football was
(02:22):
still very Bama dominated that I wasn't talking college football,
and I thought, God, you could put my show, it
feels like, on the NFL network, And that's not a
goal of mine. I actually the WNBA to me has
been such a breath of fresh air, not because I'm
woke or not because I feel that women deserve attention
(02:44):
in sports, because it's good. It's polarizing, it's kind of tribal,
it's captivating, and it allows me to get out of
the NFL bubble. Do you ever feel a little bit
sometimes like God, I'm doing seventy five percent NFL talk
and I can do more more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, you know, it was funny filling in for you.
You know, I'm in that pitch meeting and I'm I'm
pitching people the your terrific staff takes and I had
you know, his NFL Team USA things like that, a
little bit of Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, Rokie of the Year,
and so I had all the takes that I wanted
(03:21):
to do. And then I said, so, but you guys
are the experts on like how Colin would structure a show,
what should be like the lead, what's what's the a
block because it was July eighth. There's nothing going on,
which is why you were on vacation, and and they're like, oh, well,
your DAC take should be the lead. I'm like, but
(03:41):
nothing's happening with the like They're like, they're like, say
that he took off his.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Boot and then do your DAC take.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm like, okay, so that's like, that's like enough, and
I and of course there's a reason for it. Everybody
cares about it. Huge team, huge fan base and all
of that. But yeah, it's definitely something that if and
when I'm doing more stuff in your world in orbit,
I'll feel that way. But local radio baseball still matters
(04:12):
a lot, Yes, so I do a lot on the Cubs.
The White Socks are historically bad, and that's actually kind
of interesting. Either be great or be awful. Don't be
a seventy six win team. So the White Socks are
historically bad and that's providing a little bit of humor.
And then the Cubs are really interesting with a huge
(04:32):
fan base that's super engaged, and we air the games
so there's a new baseball game every day and so
there is at least something there. So locally I am
not as starved for topics sometimes that have mass appeal.
But Angel Reese is in our backyard here in Chicago's
like I do think while I am not watching games
(04:54):
first quarter to fourth quarter and like completely locked in,
people are more interesting than teams. Yeah, and these people
are interesting stories that people have a lot of opinions about.
So I'm all for it, and we have been doing
some and frankly, we're probably gonna end up doing more.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So I always kind of roll my eyes, you know,
I'm kind of I am numb to kind of criticism.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I think, you know, I work hard, I do what
I do.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I got a great staff, my staff, we just don't
really you know, we do content. We don't have time
to look back. My rule has always been I have opinions.
You can have opinions on my opinions. I'm not going
to have an opinion on your opinion of my opinion.
Like I got three hours to fill tomorrow. But I
like and I see it infrequently. I think sometimes the
(05:44):
Internet has scared away a lot of sports hosts. Not
political hosts, they don't care, but sports hosts are either
more insecure are more defensive, you know, Sean Hannity, Rachel Maddow, Oberman.
They don't care like I, but a lot of sports
guys are bothered by getting picked on by, you know,
whatever the site is, and so nobody wants to be
(06:07):
told you have a hot take.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
But the truth is, I like sportscasters who are.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Like, I wanna lay it out here, like I don't
get this, And about two years ago, this was my
hot take, and I'm gonna ask for your hottest take,
and my hot take was Luca is just a much.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Better version of Carmelo.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Anthony not in great shape, and after about four years,
you're never going to be Steve Prefontaine, Okay, I can
come to terms with it. A prodigy offensively therefore never
really had to be engaged defensively to matter. In the end,
(06:46):
his teams will be lobsided and he'll go through teammates,
he'll work with some, never ideally with any. But he's
a better version of Carmelo. And I don't think it's
a hot take because Mellow did not complain to the
officials as much as Luca. Luca is much more like
Magic Johnson, like it's just a constant chatter. But my
(07:06):
take is that he's better than Mellow. I'm not, I'm
and both their first belt Hall of famers. I mean
Mello for his lack of postseason success. As an all
time score, He's way up the list.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Right, is that Luca is.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
A better version of Mellow. He's never going to be
in great shape. He was such a prodigy, like being
a pianist, a prodigy at seven, you're probably not going
to be great at sports. You're not going to be
great at other things because you're just going to lean
into your artistry on the piano. Right, And I think
they're so gifted offensively, where Lebron never had a great
(07:38):
jumper early, he was just he was gifted physically, but
he wasn't a pretty offensive player.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
He really had to work at it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Mellow at twelve could hit an eighteen foot and it
looked like art.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It was a monet.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And that that's my hot take, is that Luca we're
gonna look back. He's going to be a top five score.
He may get a ring. He's never in great shape,
that really engaged defensively, and he'll he'll go through a
series of teammates. Somebody gets along with many, he doesn't.
That's my hot take, where's yours?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
It's a good one. It's a good one. Luca a
better passer than Mellow, so I even like more complete
all around the game.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Like Mellow. Mellow up your score, Lucas Man.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I mean, I have so many that like age poorly
and like immediately like you do this for a lot,
for long enough you do. Like if people like pick
on me or get mad at me for like me
just being wrong, I'm like, Okay, then you document twenty
hours of.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Opinions a week and won't see how you like?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know what actually like first to sensitized me to
not caring about being wrong. Gambling like I've been. I've
been gambling on sports longer than I've been hosting radio
shows professionally. I started gambling on sports when I was
recovering from back surgery in high school. I was fifteen
or sixteen years old. It was like, yeah, you're wrong
sometimes on your prediction. I mean, I said it was
(09:01):
there was a zero percent chance that Tony Laruss was
going to get hired as the manager of the White Sox.
He was hired four days later. I said John Baldwin
was going to be a Hall of Famer. He was
an incredible bust. There are so many that are Listen.
I said that I would trade my dog for Deshaun
Watson for him to be the quarterback of the Bears,
and five days later there were sixty five accounts of sexual.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Misconducts that came out of it. Oh God, I've I've
had some real ones that blow up my face. But
it's funny.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You know the one from your from the six hours
of doing your show that I'm getting killed for the
most in my group chat with like my friends, Nick
has gotten on me. You think Justin Herbert's the third
best quarterback in the world to start a franchise with.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I'm like, yeah, I do. Like you know, he has
no playoff wins. Yeah, but there has to be an
eye test.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I have to be able to say that, yes, he
has no playoff wins, he has a horrendous blown lead.
He's there have been multiple coaches that have been there.
But I have to be able to trust myself that
no matter what a grave looks like from a scouting service,
or a yards per attempt or a win loss record,
(10:15):
I have to say that when I watched these games,
when I watch eleven hours of football, start to finish
on a Sunday. Who's more physically talented than that dude
throwing a football.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
That's the list, and my list was Mahomes won, Allen two,
Herbert three, Stroud four.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
People like, how do you not have Stroud in front
of him. I'm like, well, Stroud was amazing, but he's
done it. One time.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
He had twenty three passing touchdowns like it was. It
was an incredible year. Five interceptions over four thousand yards.
It's a rookie. No one thought Nico Collins and Tank
Dell were going to be things. And now he's you know,
made him into great players.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
But like he did it once.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
No one's thrown for more yards through the first five
years of a career than Justin Herbert. And I know
Anthony Lynn was terrible at clock management, and I know
the Chargers have been cursed with injuries, and I know
he's had three different play callers or four different play
callers now since he's been into the league. I'm like,
at some point, I just have to trust my eyes.
And there's no doubt in my mind that Harball and
him are gonna win big so I haven't sold a
(11:19):
share of Justin Herbert stock. Like I if the Bears
would have traded the rights to Caleb Williams for Justin Herbert,
I would been like, I get it, I get it.
I It'd be hard for me to pound the table
because Caleb is so much cheaper. But I just think
that that dude's so unbelievably talented that I'm willing to
go down with the ship.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Now, is there a hot take that you're proud of?
I'll throw one out. I said, Johnny manziel And Zach
Wilson can't play a lit.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Oh good for you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I was like, nope, Johnny manziel And, by the way,
I've met Johnny. There's qualities about Johnny that I think
are great. I think he's probably a great hang and
a great friend. If you had to pick NFL quarterbacks
to go party within a Friday night, he'd be a blast.
He'd be funny, he's cocky, he's smart, probably tells great stories.
(12:10):
I just I said, I don't care what Nick Saban says.
That is not an NFL quarterback. He's not disciplined enough,
his shoulders, his waist, he's too tiny, he's small. People
think Baker Mayfield, but I always said Baker's overdrafted, but
he can play. He's a franchise quarterback. People think I
hated Baker. It's like, no, no, no, he's draftable. I
(12:32):
just wouldn't draft him as a GM. I don't like
his temperament as a twenty year old. I also said
Zach Wilson, and I think Joe Douglas is a good GM.
I'm like, guys, go to the three best teams he
played in college. He won during a COVID season.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
He can't.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
This is not an NFL starting quarterback. So pat myself
in the back. Do you have one you took shit for?
But in retrospect, you're like, I'm kind of proud of
that one because I was on an island.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You know, it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
I mean, like, again, there's a hundred of them, because
you know what I mean, I'm so right.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
About so many things and so wrong about so many things.
Then I don't even really like think about it in
those terms. But so my wife went to Clemson and
we were in Mexico and Clemson was playing Georgia and
there was like a twenty inch TV on in like
the sports bar and the all inclusive resort that we
(13:24):
were at, and Clemson in their first game of the season.
They were starting fifth year senior Cole Stout. Yeah, and
I was like, Okay, I don't really. We were just
like dating at the time. It's like one of our
first trips we took together. So I'm like trying to
I'm watching more college football because of her. She's super
into it, Like, all right, let's check out this Clemson team, Like, oh,
(13:45):
cole Stout, this guy stinks. Three possessions into the game,
they bring in a true freshman by the name of
Deshaun Watson, and this guy throws a ball sixty yards
in the air and it's.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I'm just like, who is that?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
And she's like, she's like, I don't know, but she's
a fan, but she doesn't know that, like she's not
following like recruiting. I'm like, who is that.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
She's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I'm like googling it, like that guy's your quarterback, that
guy's gonna win a Heisman Trophy, that guy's going to
the NFL. He's gonna be the first pick.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
In the draft. And he wasn't.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Uh, But I ended up watching every game that he
played in college. We went to Arizona to watch him
in the title game against Alabama when he had four
passing touchdowns a rushing touchdown, and they lost because Nick
Saban on sidekicked to kick the to keep the ball
out of his hands. So it's not like the hottest
take in the world because he was obviously a big
time recruit. But I pride myself on actually watching the
(14:43):
games same. I'd like, I'm going to watch the games,
and I try not to be terribly on Twitter during
the games. I try not to see everyone else's opinion
on things while I'm watching the I try to watch
the game, have an opinion, and then see if I'm
in the majority of the minority or I'm alone on
(15:04):
an island. And so I felt like with him. So
the Bears had the third pick in the draft. They
traded up, and I was like, I don't understand this.
I was like, I don't get the Mahomes thing. I
don't get the Trubisky thing. Mahomes is from the Big twelve.
They've never put a good quarterback into the NFL. It's
the air raid. There's no way that'll work. Mitch Drubisky
he's in the ACC with DeShawn Watson. He's started for
(15:26):
one year, and you're telling me that a guy who
played Bama in back to back title games one to one,
lost one and the first four thousand and one thousand
yard guy in college football history, you're telling me that's
not the number one pick in the draft. And so
I was just banging the drum for the Bears to
take to Sean Watson, and obviously he goes third. He
would have been much better than Trubisky. The personal off
(15:48):
the field stuff. Who could have known that aged very poorly.
But when he had that five thousand yard forty eight
hundred yard season with Bill O'Brien at twenty three years old,
I was.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Like, I told you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I was like, I told you this better than Mitchy.
I'm like, I shuld be the GM of the Bears. So,
and honestly, isn't that an obvious point? Like what do
these guys get paid for it to do twenty hours
a week of work? To say that a one year
(16:19):
starter at North Carolina is? How does that happen?
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Speaker 2 (17:11):
Well, I only get the opportunity a couple times a
year because he's the hardest working man in print journalism
in America. You know, Connor, my friend, He's got a book.
I cannot wait to read it. I've already had several
shots at several chapters, and it's so in depth. It's
called Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers.
(17:32):
It comes out next month. You know, as she written
this book, it helped me to laugh. But Aaron's like
a story a week guy. At I keep thinking, do
you have to keep doing updates for the book?
Speaker 6 (17:47):
I did, actually, Colin, and thank you very much for
the kind words I handed in the book in January.
And at that point, after asking to get him for
months and getting no response or being told he's he's
thinking about it. Assuming at that point he's not going
to talk to me, and generally my biographies they've been
unauthorized with limited or no cooperation from the main subject.
(18:10):
So then in February I got a message from the Jets, well,
he's actually now willing to talk to you. And it
wasn't going to be a ten hour sit down where
he told me his life story, but it was more
a fact checking hour or two. So I got two
hours with him and great. So he answered him questions,
he made the book better. And then after that you
(18:30):
had the RFK Junior story drop. After that you had
the Sandy Hook conspiracy story drop, and then some podcasts
he did after my access to him, where more conspiracies
were talked about. And so listen Aaron Rodgers. He was
a very difficult subject to get your arms around. I
(18:51):
thought Belichick was tough, but compared to Rogers, I think
Belichick was a walk in the park because he was
a mystery that I felt like there was the same
to it at the same time, and he was right
in front of me. And I always felt that Rogers
was a moving target, and so it was a challenge
and hopefully I conquered it. I guess the readers will
(19:13):
will let me know if I did.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah. I think, you know, complex people are interesting, and
I've said Aaron's really good content for me. There are
parts of Aaron that I've said on the show before.
My theory on Aaron. One of them is he just
pushes back on authority. His family was very religious. He
(19:37):
pushed back on it. He pushed back on the Packers,
He's pushed back on the media. He's pushed back on
the government vaccines. Whether that's a good quality or not,
it can be unsettling to people covering him. But my
belief is he's a non conformist. Many of the people
in our lives, musicians and artists, we have celebrated our
(20:02):
non conformists.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Is there a bit of.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Artistry to his personality. That's probably the wrong word, but
in my life we have often celebrated there's a construct
of football that we want organizational, dependable, reliable personalities. And
is it arguable or debatable he's more of an artist
in a structured sport.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
And that's a great question. And I'm used to Eli Manning,
that model that Eli Manning Derek Jeter model in New
York and Aaron is the complete opposite of that. And so,
but there there is an art to creating a news
cycle rolling out of bed, and that's what he can do.
He can do that better than anyone else, maybe in
all sports. He can create a news cycle like that. So,
(20:51):
and we've seen that over the years. And I think
he loves being interesting. I think he loves being talked about,
he loves being analyzed. Don't think he loves the way
the news media has treated him in recent years. I
think his viewpoints politically generally are in contrast with what
he believes is the liberal media, largely liberal media, and
(21:12):
he's right for the most part. And you look at him, though,
what's interesting is his life. His public life. Colin changed
with COVID because before COVID and the I've been immunized
press conference in August of twenty one. He was not
considered a villain. He was a guy who was very
socially aware. He backed Colin Kaepernick and the right to
(21:34):
kneel in protest. He actually rebuked the fan who screened
out or shouted out an anti Muslim slur in the
middle of the national anthem I think it was right
after the Paris terrorist attacks, and got a letter of
congrat congratulations or thanks or appreciation from President Obama. Mina
Cones had that, and so he was sort of known
(21:57):
as as an athlete who was socially aware and engaged
the issues and really on the right side of the issues.
And all of a sudden, COVID and his stance against
vaccines changed everything for him in terms of his public image.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I'm gonna throw this out and you can latch onto this,
and if there's any story in the book that corroborates
or refutes this, go ahead. But I've said one of
the statistics with Aaron that doesn't make a lot of
sense on the surface is his lack of come from
behind wins in the NFL twenty one playoff games. He
has won that would be low for a bad quarterback.
(22:36):
He's an all time great. And I've often used, you know,
maybe it's fright, a little glib. He's more of a
Baylor than a baller. Is that when he plays poorly
early he quits that he's not a fox hole guy.
He's just brilliantly gifted. Jeter was more of a leader,
a Rod was more talented. Brady's more of a leader.
(22:57):
Aaron's just more talent. And that I look at him
that there's a lack of fundamental lack of trust in
a process, and when he struggles early in games, his
body language shifts. When he trails latent games, there's a
lack of trust for the play calling. And that's part
of his personality. It's the only thing I can figure
(23:17):
out and decipher why a gifted quarterback in twenty one
playoff games has only one come from behind win. Does
any of this line up with some of his unique
personality quirks or his fundamental base personality.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
Well, when he was younger, he was a fearless postseason player,
and I think he what He won four of his
first five postseason games, and the throw he made to
beat Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl. The third down throw
over the middle to Jennings is one of the great
throws in Super Bowl history on third down. If that
(23:52):
passes incomplete, I think the Steelers win that Super Bowl.
And so he makes that play and other plays in
that game and in that postseason run. If you go
back Colin as I did, of course, and looked at
particularly the game against at Land and the playoffs that
year that he wonted, you cannot play the position at
a higher level than that, right. He had some Alan
(24:14):
Irison type ankle breaking moves to escape guys in the
pocket that were just unbelievable, and the throws he made
and just the way he played in that game was
it was art. It was just hard to believe somebody
could play at that level. And after watching that game
and seeing him win the Super Bowl, it is really
hard still after studying his career in his life, to
come to grips with the fact that the Packers could
(24:35):
not figure out a way to win a second ring
with this guy. It's just unbelievable. One thing I'll point out,
so this doesn't really relate to his upbringing or character traits,
but he listen, if they recover an onside kick. He's
in the second Super Bowl. They don't recover it onside kick,
and didn't do six other things in the final minutes
of that game. And by the way, and by the way,
(24:58):
that comeback drive to tie and send it into overtime
against Seattle is totally forgotten. Was an amazing drive by
Aaron Rodgers to get that game into overtime after the
team and really the coaching staff around him fell apart.
So that doesn't count because they lost, but just in
that building, the loudest building in the NFL, after the
(25:20):
rest of the team really folded around him to drive
that team down the field to force overtime and lose
it basically on a coin toss. So that's a tough one.
Because they get to the Super Bowl that year. They
had beaten New England in the regular season, so they
would have a lot of confidence against Brady in the
Super Bowl that year. But he did not have Belichick. Okay,
(25:45):
Mike McCarthy was not a bad coach, but he's not
even close to Belichick. Tom Brady also had the best
offensive coordinator of his generation, and Brady had this great
system that Belichick created, right, and Aaron Rodgers had had
a slightly better than average head coach and didn't have
that system or offensive coordinator a lot of times, didn't
(26:08):
have a great defense, and so I think that's that. Hey,
it's there, and it's part of his legacy. The lack
of comeback victory certainly is right there on his record.
But he very easily, in a different situation would have
the multiple rings that he doesn't have right now that
everybody holds against him, and he has a part in
(26:30):
that too. There were postseason victories that he left on
the field that he could have made a play to
overcome somebody else, and he didn't do that, and certainly
that is part of his record as well.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Now, I always thought there was such a unique, interesting
contrast between this great looking hipster it went to Burke
that ends up in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the smallest talking
about the loneliest places in the NFL. Do you think
Aaron on a social level, what was Green Bay like
(27:05):
for him? That's always been fascinating. I know he goes
to Malibu in the offseason, but for about twenty weeks
you live in Green Bay, Wisconsent.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Didn't you think he liked it? Appreciated it?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
He did and it's funny because after he got drafted,
of course, he's very disappointed that he plunged in the
first round. He was supposed to a lot of people
thought he should have gone number one to his childhood
team San Francisco. That was his dream. The Niners pick
Alex Smith instead, so he falls to twenty four to
Green Bay and Thomas Weatherspoon, former NCAA champion sprinter, was
(27:40):
a trainer for Aaron Rodgers. A guy made him faster,
and he said to him, this is great. This is
like Chico with snow and the green Bay Quarterbacks. In
green Bay, they're gonna build a statue for you and
they're gonna love you to death, and there's no better
place to be. So this plunge in the first round
(28:03):
is really a blessing in disguise, and I think Aaron
saw that. And now I don't think the Green Bay
community embraced him like it embraced Brett Farr, because they
saw Farv as one of us, even though he was
from the South. Yes, right, hunter fisherman, hanging out with
the boys in the bar, high fiving fans over a
(28:23):
beer by everyone around in the bar, until, of course
he went into until he got sober and and then
that changed a little bit. But yeah, they saw he
is one of us, and I don't think they ever
saw Rogers as one of us. But I think it
was a really good fit for him, coming from a
small market being overlooked, coming a Juco guy, and then
(28:48):
he ends up in Green Bay and it really was
a great marriage, even though it wasn't the same relationship
with the fans that Farv had. And it just can't
believe that they only won one championship with him when
you look at the talent, and some of it is
his fault, but it's a shame. And really, at the
end for John Elway, he got a second ring, got
(29:11):
his first ring and a second ring at the end
of his career, and Peyton Manning got that second ring
right at the end of his career. And I think
that it would be a good thing, really to see
Aaron Rodgers get that second ring before he retires, because
he's too good to retire with one ring. Thankfully he's
got one and not zero, because we'd be really destroying
him for that, but he really should retire with multiple rings.
(29:35):
And hey, listen, the Jet fan base is the most
fatalistic fan base I've ever encountered, and at some point
it's going to happen. Entering the two thousand and four season,
the Red Sox fan base thought it would never happen,
and it did. Entering twenty sixteen, the Cubs fan base
thought it would never happen, and it did. New York
Ranger fan base in ninety four thought it would never happen,
(29:55):
and it did so at some point it will happen
for the Jets. Hopefully it'll be the this year.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment rate and review
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Speaker 2 (00:03):
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Speaker 4 (01:57):
Well he filled in for me last week.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Popular talk show host in Chicago, really talented guy, Danny Parkins.
I never wanted to be an eighty percent NFL show.
And as I've done this, the longer I've done this,
the NFL now has so separated, for a variety of
reasons from every other sport that there was a point
about a year or two ago when college football was
(02:22):
still very Bama dominated that I wasn't talking college football,
and I thought, God, you could put my show, it
feels like, on the NFL network, And that's not a
goal of mine. I actually the WNBA to me has
been such a breath of fresh air, not because I'm
woke or not because I feel that women deserve attention
(02:44):
in sports, because it's good. It's polarizing, it's kind of tribal,
it's captivating, and it allows me to get out of
the NFL bubble. Do you ever feel a little bit
sometimes like God, I'm doing seventy five percent NFL talk
and I can do more more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, you know, it was funny filling in for you.
You know, I'm in that pitch meeting and I'm I'm
pitching people the your terrific staff takes and I had
you know, his NFL Team USA things like that, a
little bit of Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, Rokie of the Year,
and so I had all the takes that I wanted
(03:21):
to do. And then I said, so, but you guys
are the experts on like how Colin would structure a show,
what should be like the lead, what's what's the a
block because it was July eighth. There's nothing going on,
which is why you were on vacation, and and they're like, oh, well,
your DAC take should be the lead. I'm like, but
(03:41):
nothing's happening with the like They're like, they're like, say
that he took off his.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Boot and then do your DAC take.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm like, okay, so that's like, that's like enough, and
I and of course there's a reason for it. Everybody
cares about it. Huge team, huge fan base and all
of that. But yeah, it's definitely something that if and
when I'm doing more stuff in your world in orbit,
I'll feel that way. But local radio baseball still matters
(04:12):
a lot, Yes, so I do a lot on the Cubs.
The White Socks are historically bad, and that's actually kind
of interesting. Either be great or be awful. Don't be
a seventy six win team. So the White Socks are
historically bad and that's providing a little bit of humor.
And then the Cubs are really interesting with a huge
(04:32):
fan base that's super engaged, and we air the games
so there's a new baseball game every day and so
there is at least something there. So locally I am
not as starved for topics sometimes that have mass appeal.
But Angel Reese is in our backyard here in Chicago's
like I do think while I am not watching games
(04:54):
first quarter to fourth quarter and like completely locked in,
people are more interesting than teams. Yeah, and these people
are interesting stories that people have a lot of opinions about.
So I'm all for it, and we have been doing
some and frankly, we're probably gonna end up doing more.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So I always kind of roll my eyes, you know,
I'm kind of I am numb to kind of criticism.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I think, you know, I work hard, I do what
I do.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I got a great staff, my staff, we just don't
really you know, we do content. We don't have time
to look back. My rule has always been I have opinions.
You can have opinions on my opinions. I'm not going
to have an opinion on your opinion of my opinion.
Like I got three hours to fill tomorrow. But I
like and I see it infrequently. I think sometimes the
(05:44):
Internet has scared away a lot of sports hosts. Not
political hosts, they don't care, but sports hosts are either
more insecure are more defensive, you know, Sean Hannity, Rachel Maddow, Oberman.
They don't care like I, but a lot of sports
guys are bothered by getting picked on by, you know,
whatever the site is, and so nobody wants to be
(06:07):
told you have a hot take.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
But the truth is, I like sportscasters who are.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Like, I wanna lay it out here, like I don't
get this, And about two years ago, this was my
hot take, and I'm gonna ask for your hottest take,
and my hot take was Luca is just a much.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Better version of Carmelo.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Anthony not in great shape, and after about four years,
you're never going to be Steve Prefontaine, Okay, I can
come to terms with it. A prodigy offensively therefore never
really had to be engaged defensively to matter. In the end,
(06:46):
his teams will be lobsided and he'll go through teammates,
he'll work with some, never ideally with any. But he's
a better version of Carmelo. And I don't think it's
a hot take because Mellow did not complain to the
officials as much as Luca. Luca is much more like
Magic Johnson, like it's just a constant chatter. But my
(07:06):
take is that he's better than Mellow. I'm not, I'm
and both their first belt Hall of famers. I mean
Mello for his lack of postseason success. As an all
time score, He's way up the list.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Right, is that Luca is.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
A better version of Mellow. He's never going to be
in great shape. He was such a prodigy, like being
a pianist, a prodigy at seven, you're probably not going
to be great at sports. You're not going to be
great at other things because you're just going to lean
into your artistry on the piano. Right, And I think
they're so gifted offensively, where Lebron never had a great
(07:38):
jumper early, he was just he was gifted physically, but
he wasn't a pretty offensive player.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
He really had to work at it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Mellow at twelve could hit an eighteen foot and it
looked like art.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It was a monet.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And that that's my hot take, is that Luca we're
gonna look back. He's going to be a top five score.
He may get a ring. He's never in great shape,
that really engaged defensively, and he'll he'll go through a
series of teammates. Somebody gets along with many, he doesn't.
That's my hot take, where's yours?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
It's a good one. It's a good one. Luca a
better passer than Mellow, so I even like more complete
all around the game.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Like Mellow. Mellow up your score, Lucas Man.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I mean, I have so many that like age poorly
and like immediately like you do this for a lot,
for long enough you do. Like if people like pick
on me or get mad at me for like me
just being wrong, I'm like, Okay, then you document twenty
hours of.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Opinions a week and won't see how you like?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know what actually like first to sensitized me to
not caring about being wrong. Gambling like I've been. I've
been gambling on sports longer than I've been hosting radio
shows professionally. I started gambling on sports when I was
recovering from back surgery in high school. I was fifteen
or sixteen years old. It was like, yeah, you're wrong
sometimes on your prediction. I mean, I said it was
(09:01):
there was a zero percent chance that Tony Laruss was
going to get hired as the manager of the White Sox.
He was hired four days later. I said John Baldwin
was going to be a Hall of Famer. He was
an incredible bust. There are so many that are Listen.
I said that I would trade my dog for Deshaun
Watson for him to be the quarterback of the Bears,
and five days later there were sixty five accounts of sexual.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Misconducts that came out of it. Oh God, I've I've
had some real ones that blow up my face. But
it's funny.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You know the one from your from the six hours
of doing your show that I'm getting killed for the
most in my group chat with like my friends, Nick
has gotten on me. You think Justin Herbert's the third
best quarterback in the world to start a franchise with.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I'm like, yeah, I do. Like you know, he has
no playoff wins. Yeah, but there has to be an
eye test.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I have to be able to say that, yes, he
has no playoff wins, he has a horrendous blown lead.
He's there have been multiple coaches that have been there.
But I have to be able to trust myself that
no matter what a grave looks like from a scouting service,
or a yards per attempt or a win loss record,
(10:15):
I have to say that when I watched these games,
when I watch eleven hours of football, start to finish
on a Sunday. Who's more physically talented than that dude
throwing a football.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
That's the list, and my list was Mahomes won, Allen two,
Herbert three, Stroud four.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
People like, how do you not have Stroud in front
of him. I'm like, well, Stroud was amazing, but he's
done it. One time.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
He had twenty three passing touchdowns like it was. It
was an incredible year. Five interceptions over four thousand yards.
It's a rookie. No one thought Nico Collins and Tank
Dell were going to be things. And now he's you know,
made him into great players.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
But like he did it once.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
No one's thrown for more yards through the first five
years of a career than Justin Herbert. And I know
Anthony Lynn was terrible at clock management, and I know
the Chargers have been cursed with injuries, and I know
he's had three different play callers or four different play
callers now since he's been into the league. I'm like,
at some point, I just have to trust my eyes.
And there's no doubt in my mind that Harball and
him are gonna win big so I haven't sold a
(11:19):
share of Justin Herbert stock. Like I if the Bears
would have traded the rights to Caleb Williams for Justin Herbert,
I would been like, I get it, I get it.
I It'd be hard for me to pound the table
because Caleb is so much cheaper. But I just think
that that dude's so unbelievably talented that I'm willing to
go down with the ship.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Now, is there a hot take that you're proud of?
I'll throw one out. I said, Johnny manziel And Zach
Wilson can't play a lit.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Oh good for you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I was like, nope, Johnny manziel And, by the way,
I've met Johnny. There's qualities about Johnny that I think
are great. I think he's probably a great hang and
a great friend. If you had to pick NFL quarterbacks
to go party within a Friday night, he'd be a blast.
He'd be funny, he's cocky, he's smart, probably tells great stories.
(12:10):
I just I said, I don't care what Nick Saban says.
That is not an NFL quarterback. He's not disciplined enough,
his shoulders, his waist, he's too tiny, he's small. People
think Baker Mayfield, but I always said Baker's overdrafted, but
he can play. He's a franchise quarterback. People think I
hated Baker. It's like, no, no, no, he's draftable. I
(12:32):
just wouldn't draft him as a GM. I don't like
his temperament as a twenty year old. I also said
Zach Wilson, and I think Joe Douglas is a good GM.
I'm like, guys, go to the three best teams he
played in college. He won during a COVID season.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
He can't.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
This is not an NFL starting quarterback. So pat myself
in the back. Do you have one you took shit for?
But in retrospect, you're like, I'm kind of proud of
that one because I was on an island.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You know, it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
I mean, like, again, there's a hundred of them, because
you know what I mean, I'm so right.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
About so many things and so wrong about so many things.
Then I don't even really like think about it in
those terms. But so my wife went to Clemson and
we were in Mexico and Clemson was playing Georgia and
there was like a twenty inch TV on in like
the sports bar and the all inclusive resort that we
(13:24):
were at, and Clemson in their first game of the season.
They were starting fifth year senior Cole Stout. Yeah, and
I was like, Okay, I don't really. We were just
like dating at the time. It's like one of our
first trips we took together. So I'm like trying to
I'm watching more college football because of her. She's super
into it, Like, all right, let's check out this Clemson team, Like, oh,
(13:45):
cole Stout, this guy stinks. Three possessions into the game,
they bring in a true freshman by the name of
Deshaun Watson, and this guy throws a ball sixty yards
in the air and it's.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I'm just like, who is that?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
And she's like, she's like, I don't know, but she's
a fan, but she doesn't know that, like she's not
following like recruiting. I'm like, who is that.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
She's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I'm like googling it, like that guy's your quarterback, that
guy's gonna win a Heisman Trophy, that guy's going to
the NFL. He's gonna be the first pick.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
In the draft. And he wasn't.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Uh, But I ended up watching every game that he
played in college. We went to Arizona to watch him
in the title game against Alabama when he had four
passing touchdowns a rushing touchdown, and they lost because Nick
Saban on sidekicked to kick the to keep the ball
out of his hands. So it's not like the hottest
take in the world because he was obviously a big
time recruit. But I pride myself on actually watching the
(14:43):
games same. I'd like, I'm going to watch the games,
and I try not to be terribly on Twitter during
the games. I try not to see everyone else's opinion
on things while I'm watching the I try to watch
the game, have an opinion, and then see if I'm
in the majority of the minority or I'm alone on
(15:04):
an island. And so I felt like with him. So
the Bears had the third pick in the draft. They
traded up, and I was like, I don't understand this.
I was like, I don't get the Mahomes thing. I
don't get the Trubisky thing. Mahomes is from the Big twelve.
They've never put a good quarterback into the NFL. It's
the air raid. There's no way that'll work. Mitch Drubisky
he's in the ACC with DeShawn Watson. He's started for
(15:26):
one year, and you're telling me that a guy who
played Bama in back to back title games one to one,
lost one and the first four thousand and one thousand
yard guy in college football history, you're telling me that's
not the number one pick in the draft. And so
I was just banging the drum for the Bears to
take to Sean Watson, and obviously he goes third. He
would have been much better than Trubisky. The personal off
(15:48):
the field stuff. Who could have known that aged very poorly.
But when he had that five thousand yard forty eight
hundred yard season with Bill O'Brien at twenty three years old,
I was.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Like, I told you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I was like, I told you this better than Mitchy.
I'm like, I shuld be the GM of the Bears. So,
and honestly, isn't that an obvious point? Like what do
these guys get paid for it to do twenty hours
a week of work? To say that a one year
(16:19):
starter at North Carolina is? How does that happen?
Speaker 5 (16:23):
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(16:45):
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You can see all of this and more at fantasypros
dot com slash volume Today.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Well, I only get the opportunity a couple times a
year because he's the hardest working man in print journalism
in America. You know, Connor, my friend, He's got a book.
I cannot wait to read it. I've already had several
shots at several chapters, and it's so in depth. It's
called Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers.
(17:32):
It comes out next month. You know, as she written
this book, it helped me to laugh. But Aaron's like
a story a week guy. At I keep thinking, do
you have to keep doing updates for the book?
Speaker 6 (17:47):
I did, actually, Colin, and thank you very much for
the kind words I handed in the book in January.
And at that point, after asking to get him for
months and getting no response or being told he's he's
thinking about it. Assuming at that point he's not going
to talk to me, and generally my biographies they've been
unauthorized with limited or no cooperation from the main subject.
(18:10):
So then in February I got a message from the Jets, well,
he's actually now willing to talk to you. And it
wasn't going to be a ten hour sit down where
he told me his life story, but it was more
a fact checking hour or two. So I got two
hours with him and great. So he answered him questions,
he made the book better. And then after that you
(18:30):
had the RFK Junior story drop. After that you had
the Sandy Hook conspiracy story drop, and then some podcasts
he did after my access to him, where more conspiracies
were talked about. And so listen Aaron Rodgers. He was
a very difficult subject to get your arms around. I
(18:51):
thought Belichick was tough, but compared to Rogers, I think
Belichick was a walk in the park because he was
a mystery that I felt like there was the same
to it at the same time, and he was right
in front of me. And I always felt that Rogers
was a moving target, and so it was a challenge
and hopefully I conquered it. I guess the readers will
(19:13):
will let me know if I did.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah. I think, you know, complex people are interesting, and
I've said Aaron's really good content for me. There are
parts of Aaron that I've said on the show before.
My theory on Aaron. One of them is he just
pushes back on authority. His family was very religious. He
(19:37):
pushed back on it. He pushed back on the Packers,
He's pushed back on the media. He's pushed back on
the government vaccines. Whether that's a good quality or not,
it can be unsettling to people covering him. But my
belief is he's a non conformist. Many of the people
in our lives, musicians and artists, we have celebrated our
(20:02):
non conformists.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Is there a bit of.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Artistry to his personality. That's probably the wrong word, but
in my life we have often celebrated there's a construct
of football that we want organizational, dependable, reliable personalities. And
is it arguable or debatable he's more of an artist
in a structured sport.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
And that's a great question. And I'm used to Eli Manning,
that model that Eli Manning Derek Jeter model in New
York and Aaron is the complete opposite of that. And so,
but there there is an art to creating a news
cycle rolling out of bed, and that's what he can do.
He can do that better than anyone else, maybe in
all sports. He can create a news cycle like that. So,
(20:51):
and we've seen that over the years. And I think
he loves being interesting. I think he loves being talked about,
he loves being analyzed. Don't think he loves the way
the news media has treated him in recent years. I
think his viewpoints politically generally are in contrast with what
he believes is the liberal media, largely liberal media, and
(21:12):
he's right for the most part. And you look at him, though,
what's interesting is his life. His public life. Colin changed
with COVID because before COVID and the I've been immunized
press conference in August of twenty one. He was not
considered a villain. He was a guy who was very
socially aware. He backed Colin Kaepernick and the right to
(21:34):
kneel in protest. He actually rebuked the fan who screened
out or shouted out an anti Muslim slur in the
middle of the national anthem I think it was right
after the Paris terrorist attacks, and got a letter of
congrat congratulations or thanks or appreciation from President Obama. Mina
Cones had that, and so he was sort of known
(21:57):
as as an athlete who was socially aware and engaged
the issues and really on the right side of the issues.
And all of a sudden, COVID and his stance against
vaccines changed everything for him in terms of his public image.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I'm gonna throw this out and you can latch onto this,
and if there's any story in the book that corroborates
or refutes this, go ahead. But I've said one of
the statistics with Aaron that doesn't make a lot of
sense on the surface is his lack of come from
behind wins in the NFL twenty one playoff games. He
has won that would be low for a bad quarterback.
(22:36):
He's an all time great. And I've often used, you know,
maybe it's fright, a little glib. He's more of a
Baylor than a baller. Is that when he plays poorly
early he quits that he's not a fox hole guy.
He's just brilliantly gifted. Jeter was more of a leader,
a Rod was more talented. Brady's more of a leader.
(22:57):
Aaron's just more talent. And that I look at him
that there's a lack of fundamental lack of trust in
a process, and when he struggles early in games, his
body language shifts. When he trails latent games, there's a
lack of trust for the play calling. And that's part
of his personality. It's the only thing I can figure
(23:17):
out and decipher why a gifted quarterback in twenty one
playoff games has only one come from behind win. Does
any of this line up with some of his unique
personality quirks or his fundamental base personality.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
Well, when he was younger, he was a fearless postseason player,
and I think he what He won four of his
first five postseason games, and the throw he made to
beat Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl. The third down throw
over the middle to Jennings is one of the great
throws in Super Bowl history on third down. If that
(23:52):
passes incomplete, I think the Steelers win that Super Bowl.
And so he makes that play and other plays in
that game and in that postseason run. If you go
back Colin as I did, of course, and looked at
particularly the game against at Land and the playoffs that
year that he wonted, you cannot play the position at
a higher level than that, right. He had some Alan
(24:14):
Irison type ankle breaking moves to escape guys in the
pocket that were just unbelievable, and the throws he made
and just the way he played in that game was
it was art. It was just hard to believe somebody
could play at that level. And after watching that game
and seeing him win the Super Bowl, it is really
hard still after studying his career in his life, to
come to grips with the fact that the Packers could
(24:35):
not figure out a way to win a second ring
with this guy. It's just unbelievable. One thing I'll point out,
so this doesn't really relate to his upbringing or character traits,
but he listen, if they recover an onside kick. He's
in the second Super Bowl. They don't recover it onside kick,
and didn't do six other things in the final minutes
of that game. And by the way, and by the way,
(24:58):
that comeback drive to tie and send it into overtime
against Seattle is totally forgotten. Was an amazing drive by
Aaron Rodgers to get that game into overtime after the
team and really the coaching staff around him fell apart.
So that doesn't count because they lost, but just in
that building, the loudest building in the NFL, after the
(25:20):
rest of the team really folded around him to drive
that team down the field to force overtime and lose
it basically on a coin toss. So that's a tough one.
Because they get to the Super Bowl that year. They
had beaten New England in the regular season, so they
would have a lot of confidence against Brady in the
Super Bowl that year. But he did not have Belichick. Okay,
(25:45):
Mike McCarthy was not a bad coach, but he's not
even close to Belichick. Tom Brady also had the best
offensive coordinator of his generation, and Brady had this great
system that Belichick created, right, and Aaron Rodgers had had
a slightly better than average head coach and didn't have
that system or offensive coordinator a lot of times, didn't
(26:08):
have a great defense, and so I think that's that. Hey,
it's there, and it's part of his legacy. The lack
of comeback victory certainly is right there on his record.
But he very easily, in a different situation would have
the multiple rings that he doesn't have right now that
everybody holds against him, and he has a part in
(26:30):
that too. There were postseason victories that he left on
the field that he could have made a play to
overcome somebody else, and he didn't do that, and certainly
that is part of his record as well.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Now, I always thought there was such a unique, interesting
contrast between this great looking hipster it went to Burke
that ends up in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the smallest talking
about the loneliest places in the NFL. Do you think
Aaron on a social level, what was Green Bay like
(27:05):
for him? That's always been fascinating. I know he goes
to Malibu in the offseason, but for about twenty weeks
you live in Green Bay, Wisconsent.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Didn't you think he liked it? Appreciated it?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
He did and it's funny because after he got drafted,
of course, he's very disappointed that he plunged in the
first round. He was supposed to a lot of people
thought he should have gone number one to his childhood
team San Francisco. That was his dream. The Niners pick
Alex Smith instead, so he falls to twenty four to
Green Bay and Thomas Weatherspoon, former NCAA champion sprinter, was
(27:40):
a trainer for Aaron Rodgers. A guy made him faster,
and he said to him, this is great. This is
like Chico with snow and the green Bay Quarterbacks. In
green Bay, they're gonna build a statue for you and
they're gonna love you to death, and there's no better
place to be. So this plunge in the first round
(28:03):
is really a blessing in disguise, and I think Aaron
saw that. And now I don't think the Green Bay
community embraced him like it embraced Brett Farr, because they
saw Farv as one of us, even though he was
from the South. Yes, right, hunter fisherman, hanging out with
the boys in the bar, high fiving fans over a
(28:23):
beer by everyone around in the bar, until, of course
he went into until he got sober and and then
that changed a little bit. But yeah, they saw he
is one of us, and I don't think they ever
saw Rogers as one of us. But I think it
was a really good fit for him, coming from a
small market being overlooked, coming a Juco guy, and then
(28:48):
he ends up in Green Bay and it really was
a great marriage, even though it wasn't the same relationship
with the fans that Farv had. And it just can't
believe that they only won one championship with him when
you look at the talent, and some of it is
his fault, but it's a shame. And really, at the
end for John Elway, he got a second ring, got
(29:11):
his first ring and a second ring at the end
of his career, and Peyton Manning got that second ring
right at the end of his career. And I think
that it would be a good thing, really to see
Aaron Rodgers get that second ring before he retires, because
he's too good to retire with one ring. Thankfully he's
got one and not zero, because we'd be really destroying
him for that, but he really should retire with multiple rings.
(29:35):
And hey, listen, the Jet fan base is the most
fatalistic fan base I've ever encountered, and at some point
it's going to happen. Entering the two thousand and four season,
the Red Sox fan base thought it would never happen,
and it did. Entering twenty sixteen, the Cubs fan base
thought it would never happen, and it did. New York
Ranger fan base in ninety four thought it would never happen,
(29:55):
and it did so at some point it will happen
for the Jets. Hopefully it'll be the this year.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
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Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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