Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, he’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL!
They start by floating the idea of the Rams and Giants flipping first round picks in exchange for Matthew Stafford, discuss whether Stafford is worth the Giants #3 overall pick and caution Stafford against negotiating too hard and ending up with a much worse team in New York (3:00).
They debate which teams will be in hot pursuit of Sam Darnold and which landing spots would be the best fit (13:30). They preview the NFL Draft combine and react to the news that quarterback Shedeur Sanders won’t attend (16:00). They talk about the recent trend of some NFL teams not even attending the combine and why there’s real value in attending in person (18:45).
Colin predicts that Travis Hunter could end up underachieving in the NFL relative to his projections, and they explain why he’d be best served focusing on being a top cornerback instead of receiver (20:30).
Then, Colin’s joined by Ethan Strauss, sportswriter and host of the “House of Strauss” podcast!
They talk about the revival of the Golden State Warriors brand to now being considered one of the top 5 most valuable franchises, debate how much of that valuation can be attributed to Steph Curry and agree he’s the most transformational athlete in American sports history (31:30).
Finally, they discuss Caitlin Clark being the “Steph Curry” of women’s sports and why the WNBA has missed opportunities to capitalize on her popularity (40:45).
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(00:25):
on my eggs, I put it on my sandwiches, I
put it on my pizzas. I love that. I talked
about this before vacation, then it happened during vacation, and
I was told by a source. I really trust that
Matt Stafford's agent and the Rams are going to meet
at the Combine this week and try to bang something out.
(00:47):
The Rams like him, Matt likes him. They want to
stay together. He understands the importance of McVeigh and Pukinakua
and the organization, and the Rams like him. And it's
a bad quarterback class and Aaron Rodgers is an option,
but not a preferred option. Stafford's better now so. But
here's an interesting thing. A lot of Giants have pushback
on this. We're not giving up the number three pick.
(01:10):
So my take is, would you flip picks with the
Rams because it's different. If this was a great quarterback
draft class, I'd be very reluctant to give it the
number three pick because I could trade down, right, which
the Rams would do if they got the number three pick.
They would trade down and get more picks. The Giants
not necessary. They're not necessarily going to trade down. They're
(01:33):
just going to draft the quarterback. Or they would get
Stafford so they wouldn't have to. But when you as
a GM, I would have no problem getting Matt Stafford
giving them a three year deal, maybe four. You know,
I would draft a quarterback second year into it and
just say, okay, I'll take the Rams pick late first
you get my draft top of the first. I would
(01:54):
have no problem doing that because they've been unwatchable for
a decade. The coach and the GM are on the
hot seat in New York between Jade and Daniels and
the Eagles roster. You're non competitive. You're not a competitive
team going forward. But when I say that, Giant fans
are you cannot trade the number three pick. There are drafts.
(02:14):
I agree with that. This isn't You're not getting cam Ward.
This is not one of those drafts.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
To me, if I was a GM, I couldn't trade
that valuable of a pick and pay a thirty seven
year old guy who does have some injury concerns at
this point in time. But those guys are fighting for
their jobs. So I think if you sat in Brian
dabols shoes, he wouldn't hesitate to do that. I think
he would just give the number three pick for Matt Stafford.
(02:42):
Why would he not. He's going to get fired and
fair not like he would not get a job immediately after.
And the general manager, what's also just speaking realities, would
never get another job, right. So to me, now if
I was the owner, I could not We would not
be doing that. That's I think it's risky business. I
would also not be business. Look at the last two
quarterbacks that were older, they got a lot of money
(03:04):
that the Packers, who are one of the best drafting
teams of like all time, We're like, yeah, we're done
with Aaron Rodgers, and then Kevin O'Connell was like, yeah,
I'm done with Kirk Cousins, and both those teams regretted
those moves immediately. I mean the Aaron Rodgers thing, well,
they had to make that move. Like I don't blame
them for making that trade the Jets, but that was
a disaster. The Cousins thing was even worse because at
(03:25):
least Rogers at one point in time was one of
the greatest players ever. Cousins always had some limitations coming
off the Achilles and let's face the Colin They're probably
gonna cut him in the next seven ten days. Yeah,
he's going to get cut. So now Stafford at this
point in time is better than that version of Rogers
and definitely Cousins. But I you know where I come
with Stafford. You know he is going to accumulate it.
(03:47):
I looked he made over two hundred and twenty million
dollars in Detroit. His career earnings right now are about
three hundred and sixty million dollars. So when his career
is over, he will be over four hundred million dollars.
So even after taxes and after paying agents, he will
have accumulated before he's forty years old, over two hundred
million dollars in net income. I'm not even talking about
what he's made off the field in la I know
I see him on sleep number commercials. He is really
(04:09):
really rich. Right at this point in time, when you
spent a decade and a half almost in an irrelevant
franchise and losing constantly in the peak of your powers,
wouldn't you go like, look at what Tom did? Like,
wouldn't it makes sense to behy Sean. It doesn't get
any better than the Rams. I know we're well run.
I know I have an elite coach. I'm in a
huge market. I have made Peyton Manning level money, and
(04:31):
I have gotten my ass kicked and we drafted the
top ten. Now I'm with a franchise who I don't
even know. These guys are bringing in and all of
a sudden, by mid season they're as kickers, Like, why
would I want what I would come out? I would
have stopped this conversation. I will do whatever it takes.
I'm not gonna make five million dollars, but why wouldn't
he be like, I'm making twenty seven this year. Let's
do a two year deal for like forty million. Guarantee
every penny you go out and buy players. I want
(04:53):
to be here. I'm gonna go Brady, I've already people like,
don't count other people's money. This guy has made so
much money and he played and such a bad franchise,
shouldn't he Like, I wouldn't want any part of the Giants.
If you're Matt.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Stafford, what are we talking about now?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I see? But he likes his money, there's no doubt.
Like him and Jimmy sexon there they have been Peyton
Manning like every penny, every penny, yeh penny. And I
don't blame the Rams like no, no more every pennybody.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I think Stafford wants to stay with the Rams, And
to your point, I would want to stay with the Rams.
The value of the value of Sean McVay.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
For a quarterback and just a franchise and how well
run they are at Yeah he saw the Lions for
fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah. No, I think a lot of this. I think
when things go public, and you know, like like steven
A's contract went public, I always think when I see
that that the person actually wants to sign with the
company it goes public, you know. I mean, and I'm
this is not a shot at stephen A, but I
always think that whenever a person because I could make
(05:57):
my stuff go public on my contract and I don't.
I'm not comfortable with it, but a lot of people are,
and I'm not begrudging them. But Stafford and these people
that it gets out either through their agent or sources.
Stuff gets out when people wants it want it out. Right,
Like in my entire life, stories get out when people
want it out. That's the reason stuff gets out. I've
(06:19):
got secrets in my career in negotiations never gotten out
because the company doesn't want them out, and I don't
want them out. This time into my negotiations, nothing gets out.
I don't want it out, they don't want it out.
I always tell my bosses keep it out of the press.
I don't want anything in the press. But when people do,
it does get out there. It's generally because the sides
(06:41):
want a deal, they want to remate. So when I
see the Matt Stafford stuff, my take is Matt wants
to stay in Los Angeles. He's got a gorgeous place
near the beach, and I think her moost are Manhattan Beach.
It's great weather. He was in the Midwest for years.
He's a Texas Georgia kid. He probably likes warm weather.
So I and this this is not an indictment on
(07:02):
anybody that goes public, but it discounts in politics if
you're trying to get legislation passed. It counts in contracts.
It counts when I when I, I mean stuff is
out when somebody is trying to create leverage. But they
truthfully they want to stay where they're at. So I
think he'll be a round.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think, yeah, I think this one's pretty clear. Because
this kind of happened last year, it feels a little
more out this year. Is that the Rams are tough
to negotiate with. You know, early on in their tenure
with Les and John, they signed a deal that they
clearly regretted in Todd Gurley. And ever since they've been
pretty good, right, and they haven't got in these positions where,
(07:43):
you know, the Niners have kind of found themselves the
last couple of years like ah, we regret that Debo deal. Ah,
we regret that Iuke deal. And now they're kind of
burned and now they're pivoting like, oh, we got to
be careful with doing that stuff. The Rams learned early
on because Todd Gurley's need just one and this Stafford thing.
I think they have just been they've been tough with him.
You know, he's been you know, with Detroit, they always
bet right over and gave him and he was always
(08:05):
the highest paid guy. You know. The last couple of years,
it's been hard. He's like, I'm only making twenty seven.
They're like, well, we'll give you a couple of million
dollars more, but we're not. We're not giving you two years,
one hundred million dollars. Mat that's just not happening, right,
And we want you, you want us, we're winning, listen,
And I know you only have a chance, Like once
he leaves, he's probably not going to make when he's
(08:26):
forty two years old, retired thirty million dollars his first
shot whatever he does. So I understand you have the
opportunity to make a lot of it. But he's made
so much in winning, like he could go down as
a legendary player that I would be very careful about
driving this hard negotiation. Now. I think he also knows, like,
what what would the Rams do? You know, Sean McVay.
They're not really in the business of just like, oh,
(08:46):
we'll figure it out on the fly like that. They
understand what they have, but I think they have some
negotiating power because, like you said, he doesn't want to leave.
Look at his options like the Giants are, the Titans
are going to try. What are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Ros uh?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And I do think there's I think the Air Rogers
thing has some legs. And I'll say this, we know
that coaching matters with quarterbacks. Last ten games last year
when Solo was gone, the Jets were one of the
poorest coach teams in the league, up and down both
sides of the ball, and Aaron put up good numbers.
Aaron with McVeigh would put up good numbers, B plus numbers,
(09:19):
maybe not A numbers. So I think that's something they've
thought about. Aaron's got a place in Malibu, and it's like, hey,
if we get trapped here, we'll bring on Aeron for
a couple of year deal plus Aaron. From all the indications,
Aaron wanted to be a Jet and was dumped for
the second time, so I think Aaron does not want
to end his career like that. And again, I thought
in his last ten games he had like a ninety
(09:39):
eight passer rating. He was pretty good. So my take
is Aaron. It's not a I mean I had somebody
that I really trust tell me this that Aaron Rodgers
is who McVeigh would go after. I mean, he went
after a guy in Baker Mayfield that came with baggage.
He went after him in one second.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, Wentz they got off. You know, they've done a
lot of that. He has, no he's got He's like
the young version of Andy Reid. They'll take on problems.
The difference though, is, to me, there's a big difference
is the player Aaron Rodgers wants no part of getting hit.
He just will not. And that's still a quality that
Stafford will sit in there. He will get peppered as
he delivers a strike, and that you know, at the
(10:19):
level in which the Rams, I mean they're the only
team that went toe to toe with the Eagles, you know,
so it's like they're trying to compete for the Super Bowl.
That difference in standing in there throughout the course of
a season, in the big games, I think there would
be a drop off unless Aaron was just willing again
to play like he did, and I don't think at
forty one years old he would be. I mean, that
is one thing Stafford will sit in there kind of
(10:40):
like the old school quarterbacks and still get hit. So
I understand maybe his negotiating, like, hey guys, I'm taking
a lot of hits here too, Like I mean, I
need some money for this, for these bruises that I
wake up with every Monday morning.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Let's just throw this name out there because the combine
starts this week and before we get into that free agencies.
After that, Sam Darnold had a couple of disappointing games
end of the season. Sam Darnold a really good season.
Sam's got a market. Sam is still in the middle
of his prime. What is your I contend that Las
(11:12):
Vegas and with Chip Kelly and the Colts with Shane
Steiken are really good fits in they feels like Sam
in that division can go toe to toe with those quarterbacks.
You're not going toe to toe with a Herbert I
don't think, or a Mahomes, But I think you put
him in the AFC South with Shane Steikin. I think
(11:33):
he can go toe to toe with a CJ. Stroud
on most Sundays. What do you think happens with Sam?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, I mean a lot change. I remember going live
with you right after he made that throw against Seattle
and I was like, this guy, how are they going
to not give him a huge contract? And it shows
you the power of these primetime games. Let's face there
was a lot, you know, obviously the division was on
the line that Sunday night, and then the playoff game
was really, really bad. I still think at minimum he's
going to get a Baker Mayfield this year, one hundred
million dollars type contest, isn't he? And clearly with good
(12:02):
coaching you can. I mean, his team was sixty minutes
away from the number one overall Sea and he played
a massive role in that. So I think you gotta
be careful. Yeah, I think that game exposed a little bit.
When he starts getting blitzed, he starts you know, I
don't want to say seeing ghost. He's come a long
way since then, but he looked dramatically different in those
two games than he did. But you'd also say he's
(12:24):
you know, Aaron Glenn became a head coach, one of
the best defensive coordinators in the league and just was
blitzing them every single play. And Sean McVay and Shula
are just they had that defense roleing I mean they went,
they were hitting Hurts, they made him look bad in
that game, they were playing good defense. So I still
would have no problem given now that, here's the thing, like,
you know, these quarterbacks, the dominoes, all these teams looking
(12:46):
are gonna have some ranking going into the combine when
they talk to the agent. So it's like, are you
all in on Sam Donald? Because if you draft or
if you signed Sam Donald to a multi year deal,
you're probably not drafting a quarterback if you're the Giants,
if you're the Titans, if you're the Raiders, But if
you take Cousins or Rogers, you know, you're probably still
have no problem drafting a quarterback really high. So I
think Darnold would be the one guy that would just
(13:07):
get signed and immediately become, you know, kind of not
your long term starter, but at least in the immediate
next couple of year starter.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
What do you expect combine starts on Thursday? Shador standers
won't work out at the combine, which has become kind
of a trend with quarterbacks. What are you expecting? What
are you looking for?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, to me, Shador is a good example of like,
coming into this year, every important college director slash assistant
GM saw him play life. He was such a big
prospect coming into the season. There is not an NFL
team worth their salt, and every team, once they realized
we needed a quarterback probably saw him multiple times play game.
(13:49):
So it's the combine for him. And I'd even say
the same thing about cam Ward. Remember when he transferred
to Miami, he was the number one essentially free agent
college football. I think it would go for him as well,
which wouldn't shock me if he doesn't throw. Though, Chador isn't,
you know, some elite prospect in terms of his qualities, Like,
if you're Josh Allen, you should throw at the combine.
(14:10):
Why you're throwing one hundred miles an hour. I remember
Lamar Jackson when he got all the pushback about Pollan's
common about the wide receiver. He's like, I'm not gonna run.
It's like, Lamar, you're gonna run a four to two.
Everyone's head's gonna turn and you're gonna be the talk
of the combine. It was a mistake not running. Now,
granted it all worked out. I don't blame Chador for
not throwing in this environment because it's not the best environment.
(14:32):
If I'm cam Ward, you have a huge arm, throw, yeah,
I would No one cares about completions and completions you're
throwing people you don't know. Let that ball rip as
all the coaches and gms are sitting there in the
boxes and in the seats right there in Indy. So
I think those two guys and a huge part of
the combine is the interviews. And with a quarterback, and
(14:52):
I would throw Jackson Darton here, who I think is
gonna gain some momentum as a potential first round pick.
Is the person like, what are you like as guy?
I mean last year you see some of these clips,
it was a pretty high level class. You know, Jane
Daniel's really high level guy. Obviously Caleb everyone had known
him for years and he was a lot to go
number one. But Drake May, Michael Pennix, I mean, the
(15:13):
bo Nicks, JJ McCarthy. So it was like that they're
gonna crush these interviews. Coaches, this is the first the
gms and the scouts have been watching these guys for years.
The coaches, you know, NFL coaches don't really watch as
much college football as the average fan would think. The
head coach might have it on, you know, Andy Reid does,
but a lot of guys are just sco tunnel vision.
(15:34):
They don't know that much about these players and definitely
have never met him and a lot of times haven't
really evaluated them. So this is kind of their first exposure.
So meeting them as a human being and getting to
know the guy and getting to know like their football
smarts and their football IQ. It's a huge, huge moment
for all the guys that you know, we're in the
mix to. I mean, all these guys are draft We're
(15:55):
gonna get drafted, the majority of the guys going to Combine,
but definitely the guys that have like the ability to
get drafted in the first round. I mean there's just
a lot of money on the line, you know, getting drafted.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Ygh.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, the Combine's interesting. I think I was into it
more ten years ago, and I think some coaches feel
the same way. They don't necessarily some go, some don't.
I have you been surprised as a former NFL scout,
some of these coaching staffs just don't go anymore. They
just say I'm not going, not wasting my time. Does
that surprise you?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, honestly has bothered me in the past because I go, well,
Belichick always went, and now I'll promise you this, Andy
Reid's going to be there. It's like, well, if the
best guy's there and values it. It doesn't mean he
goes to everything, but he values meeting the guys because
there's one thing to evaluate them off a tape. Everything's taped, yeah, right,
your workout and even your interviews, and some of these
(16:42):
guys now can be there in a zoom interview. There
is a big difference if you're interviewing someone to be
the thirteenth overall pick standing there and talking to him
and meeting him, seeing him face to face than zooming him.
So I do believe you should go. I saw my
guy Tim Kala Kami in the Bay Area, Kyle Shanahan
like McVeigh stop going. Well, it's one thing when you're
going to the Super Bowl or the NFC Championship every year.
(17:03):
He reported, Kyle's probably gonna go this year. Kind of
need to meet these guys. But my thing is like,
if the top coach is there and the Sandy Reid
runs the league, like, you should be there. And so
I do believe there's value, not in like your change
of direction in a condra okay, but like you might
draft this guy in the second round. It's kind of
gonna be a big deal when it's like a year
(17:24):
in you hate the kid and it's your own fault
when you didn't put in max effort to get to
know him, to get to meet him every opportunity. I mean,
at this point in time, the salary CAP's almost three
hundred million dollars. It's pretty big business. Yeah, you know,
these are your most important assets. So I do think
the value is more less about the running and catching
the gauntlet drill and more just sitting with the kid
(17:45):
and interviewing them and being there with your coordinators. Not
every coach needs to go, but to me, the head
coach and the coordinators should all be present with the
with the scouting staff.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
There are certain things that are just innate. They're true.
You can't argue them. There's going to be a couple
players in the top fifteen that will be busts. They
just won't be very good, and for a variety of issues.
Some I mean, Romadonze is talented, he wasn't as good
as I thought as a rookie I think he'll I mean,
(18:18):
I thought that'd be more splash, but I think.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
A lot of it was.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
It was such a mess, you know, it was all
a mess, and I think he'll bounce back. I'm gonna
throw Travis Hunter out as a player that could be,
that could underachieve. So I don't doubt he's good enough
to be a number two receiver in the NFL and
(18:43):
a number one corner. I don't doubt either, but to
ask to be both, I mean, if you had a
great linebacker who also played tight end, it's undeniable that
the physical toll would hurt what your best at. I
would put him at corner, but he wants to be
a receiver. I don't know if he's a number one
receiver in the NFL. Maybe on a weaker team. He's
(19:05):
certainly good enough. But you can't be a number one
receiver if you have a young quarterback who's trying to
get reps confidence in timing. It's a timing position. Running
Back isn't Cornerback isn't you can I mean high school
to college, college to the pros running back in cornerback,
you can walk in and just play. You could just
(19:26):
I mean those are two positions. I've been told this forever.
You would know this is a scout running back in cornerback.
You could miss some of camp, you could be a
you could have a contract hold out. You're ready to
play week one or week two.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Well, it's a very instinctive PAUSI yeah, both of them.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Wide receiver, Especially with a young quarterback, it's a timing position.
Help Brady was an old quarterback. If he didn't trust
you'd be in the right spot, Tom would ghost you.
I think Travis Hunter, I think this coming to a
bad team, he'll have a lot of leverage. He'll play
both ways. I could see that being a problem.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Well, you know, and we'll find out. It was just
a name on a paper. Did announce he's going to
the combine as a corner. Now all the top guys
will be interviewed, they go to the podium. It'll be
interesting if he says, I'm here as a corner, but
I also plan on playing wide receiver. I do think
it's fair to say most high level people in any
industry are very singular focused, and it is very difficult
(20:25):
to spread yourself thin, especially when you're factory in youth.
I mean he's very young. I think it's impossible to
go do what he did. What he did in college
was the Big twelve, wasn't the SEC or the Big ten,
but it was still one of the greatest athletic achievements
we've ever seen. The amount of snaps he's playing, do
you agree, Oh yeah, But if you're going to be
a both way corner wide receiver just playing corner alone,
(20:48):
think of the wide receivers right now in the NFL,
the talent on a weekly basis of just pick up
a random team who their schedule is. On a week
you're chasing those guys for sixty seventy snaps. He would
be the number one corner and then you would try
to play full time wide receiver. I think it would
be borderline impossible. On the body. I don't think it's
And you go back to look at Deon Sanders, I
(21:09):
don't even think he had that many catches in his career.
And this is and Dion, I mean, was just a
better prospect. Yes, I mean, try sound is a great prospect.
Give me a break. Deon's one of the greatest athletes
in the history of America. So I do think he
just needs to focus on one of the positions, and
I hope and I think he's making the right decision
right now at corner, and then he can be at
(21:31):
just a high level corner. I don't think it's possible
to go both ways. I don't think any team wants
him to be. That doesn't mean you can't, you know,
Ben Johnson type coordinator can't run a trick for him,
bring him in on offense. They used to do that
with Dion when I was a kid. But like, I
want you to be a lockdown corner, Derek Stingley, He's
probably gonna get a hundred million dollars offseason. Why because
he goes up against your number one wide receiver who
(21:51):
are all making one hundred and eighty million dollars and
locks him down. Derevas did it, Sherman did it? You
get paid a lot of money, and he's it's more
valuable because find it's much easier to find a wide
receiver than it is a corner. There just aren't that many.
Most teams don't have one good corner, right The teams
that have two are like complete outliers in the nation. Yets. Yeah,
(22:12):
So I hope he stays just at one now we'll
see I think, you know, Dion, who's essentially like feels
like his father, constantly talks like he's going to do
both ways, like, so he's not slowing it down. And
I do think Dion speaks for Travis a little bit,
and Travis hasn't walked away from it. So I do
think it's going to be interesting to see in Indy
when he talks exactly what he says, because if he
(22:34):
does say like, I plan on doing both like he's
telling you like, eventually you got to just listen to
what he's saying and believe him.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
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Speaker 2 (24:07):
Okay, you know he's one of my favorite people. His
name is Ethan Strauss and he used to be part
of the traditional media and he kicked that dead end
profession of the curve and now he is a sub
stack Maven. He is a podcasting whiz. House of Strauss
to me is my podcast listen of choice, especially on
(24:29):
long walks. I want to talk about the Warriors you
covered for years. So I looked Sportico had a list
today of the five most valuable franchises in the United States.
Three of them are NBA franchises and one was the Warriors. Now,
if I would have told you twenty years ago it's
going to go Cowboys and Golden State Warriors, you anybody
(24:52):
would have thought, what the hell happened? They were a
mess for twenty years. I mean I grew up with
them with Rick Berry in the seventies. You know, they
had some interesting teams Tim Hardaway, but it was just
kind of a dead brand, which the Yankees were, by
the way, in the eighties, the Don Mattingly years, it
was a dead brand. You can look back and there's
(25:14):
a lot of people that can take credit. But I've
thought about this. The Lakers were very big pre Lebron
and the Cowboys were big before Dak and most of
these organizations that are listed. The Celtics have been big
since Bill Russell. Yeah, but you look at the Warriors
(25:34):
and as somebody that covered them, can you make an
argument if there are eight billion dollar franchise, that's seven
and a half of that have been driven by Steph Curry.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I know it's the number of a B. I'll say
that much about it, whatever it is. I feel like
Logan Roy, the Logan Roy line where nobody wanted to
watch the Warriors, but then we got Steph Curry and
we got some draft picks, and look at them. It's
amazing how forgotten it is, how irrelevant they were. And
I remember being in those locker rooms where a tumblewee
(26:06):
could have blown through because there's no.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Media at all.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
That's all I got to covering them, Colin, is that
I was just blogging about them as a fan on
a fan site, Warriors World, back in the day, and
I had other jobs that I was doing, and the
guy running the blog said, you know, we can get
a credential, and I said really, and says, yeah, nobody's
going to these games like they're desperate for somebody to
(26:30):
go to one of these games because they've got the
beat writer and then they've got the other beat writer.
Half the time, those two beat writers are talking to
each other and they're saying, Hey, if you don't show
up to practice, I won't show up to practice. And
then we both get the day off like that was
happening back then, and nobody would show up to practice
and get any kind of story. It's been driven by Steph.
(26:51):
It's been driven by more than Steph. I'm a little
bit defensive on behalf of your guy, Draymond Green's legacy.
I know he can annoy people, but I think because
he annoys people, they start rewriting history. I see people say,
oh my god, drayam am was drafted into the perfect situation.
Nobody has been drafted into a more perfect situation. And
(27:13):
I go when he showed up, there was no situation.
There was no situation to speak of. Nobody cared about
this team, nobody cared about this franchise. Nobody expected anything
good on twenty twelve draft night, and that guy was
a second round pick, no guaranteed spot, and he had
to scrape claw wrench jobs away from guys getting paid
(27:36):
a lot more money, with a lot more organizational investment.
He became the best defensive player of his generation, which
then merged with Steph Curry being the best offensive player
of his generation, and a lot of other things have
gone right in between some other things going wrong. But
it's a crazy, just miracle of a story. And yeah,
(27:57):
I think you're right to hit on it that we
almost take it for granted. We almost act as though
this has always been a glamour franchise. They've always been here.
It was not that way they were Clippers North.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
It was different.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think there's an argument to be made, and I
haven't given it that much thought that Steph Curry, more
than any basketball player, football player, golfer, tennis player, or
hockey player changed his individual sport more. I don't think
there's ever been a player in the I mean, oh,
(28:32):
Tawny's great, but we had Babe Ruth. He pitched and
batted too. You look at the great football players, Well,
Mahomes was great, so was John Elway and Dan Marino
and Brett farre and and they're they're I think you're
I mean, Philadelphia has a tush push. People are a
(28:52):
little uncomfortable with it outside of Philadelphia. It's not changing football.
It's just a really good fourth down play. Steph curR
has changed every single level of basketball. Everything he's changed.
I mean, I just I look at the shots being
taken now, and like anything else, any cultural change is
(29:13):
that at some point they all go south. Like analytics
for baseball, You're like, yeah, the game is more efficient.
Oh wait, now it's more boring. Oh wait, three pointers
the math are better than two pointers. Oh wait, now
it's boring. That's the way analytics all work is that
these are TV products, and initially they make the game
more efficient, and they work on a volume scale regular season,
(29:37):
but ultimately analytics don't generally work in any sport quite
as effectively in postseasons, and they generally aren't good for television.
And so Steph, now there's a little bit of a Okay,
we all fell in love with small ball and Steph,
but now it's been copied so often and people are
(29:58):
doing at such a a much more a poor level.
They don't I mean, Houston can't shoot, and they're I mean,
we got Wemby and guy is shooting too many threes.
Joel Embiid's never shot more threes. He shoots twenty nine percent.
So but I do think Steph more than any athlete
of my lifetime literally changed Muhammad Ali personality driven athlete.
(30:22):
I think I think he was for a long time
all Lee was what people looked at and went, oh
my god, look how big you get if you let
your personality out. But I mean, that's just my take
that Steph Curry is probably one of one in a
cultural it's changing of sports esthetic and style of play.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You said a lot there.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I love this topic is a great topic.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I totally agree, and I think what's remarkable about Steph
and we need to add it when we say nobody
has changed their sport more. When that happens, people can
become a victim of their own influence. Mike D'Antoni revolutionizes basketball,
but then he's almost a less he's almost a less
effective coach because all these other people learn how to
(31:06):
do it and maybe even refine it and maybe even
do it better, and he gets overrun and he doesn't
actually become a championship winning coach. The crazy thing about
Steph is that he's been doing it for over ten
years and he has revolutionized the NBA and he's still
the best at doing it. He showed people the way
(31:26):
it could be done. He gave them the recipe and
he's still the best chef cooking it. I didn't mean
to make a chef curry joke right there, but you
see what I'm saying. That's unbelievable to do that, to
be so influential and yet remain the best at what
you're doing. Now, the other part of it that you've said,
(31:47):
the malign influence on the sport with analytics, the optimization problem,
I think that's real. There are these strange things where
sometimes we like something when one person does it, but
we don't like when a bunch of other people are
doing it. I felt that way about Zachlow's writing. Zach
Low probably the greatest NBA writer of all time. He
(32:10):
had a very particular sort of style that was highly
informational and could be a little bit quirky but was
fairly dry. But the way he did it was great.
But so many younger writers coming up and bloggers coming up,
they wanted to be like Zach Low because Zach was
the man. And I looked at what they were doing
and I went, I don't know if I like you
(32:32):
doing this. It doesn't work when you do it. This
isn't a recipe that works when somebody else does it.
It would have been better if you went with something else.
And maybe even a generation before that, Bill Simmons might
have been that guy. Or I loved Bill Simmons columns.
But then I'm watching people try to be irreverent and
funny in the way Bill did it, and it's just
this doesn't scale. This isn't what I want, This isn't
(32:54):
what I want. I just want Bill doing it. That's
what it feels a little bit like right now. In
the NBA, where a lot of people loved watching those
Warriors in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, not everybody loved watching
these teams that emulated the three point shooting. As optimization
takes over and now most of the shots are going
to be three pointers.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
You know what I thought was really interesting because I
thought Caitlin Clark I was really disappointed in the WNBA
is that I thought Caitlin Clark's appeal was very simple.
Holy shit, we found that female Steph Curry. She's taking
shots women don't take. I didn't think there was anything
to it. And when and then all of a sudden,
(33:39):
and she has this Angel Reese. You know, competition in
college like magic and bird. It pivots to the professional
league and it's fascinating. And Angel Reese, I think her
success helps Caitlin Clark. I think it feels Bird Magic,
although I don't think Angel is close to Kaylin as
an influencer. Bird and Magic both had that kind of
(33:59):
ended up the perfect cities. Bird in kind of tough
guy Boston and Magic and you know, showy Los Angeles.
But it was funny because with male sports, I feel
sometimes I feel bad for Caitlin Clark in the WNBA
that people are trying to explain her popularity. Nobody ever
(34:22):
had to explain Steph Curry. It was just did he
just shoot from thirty four feet off balance and make
three in a row? And there's part of me that
feels sympathetic to the WNBA and part of me that doesn't.
First of all, I feel like when you're young, when
Bryce Harper came into baseball, he went through an Andy
(34:44):
duframe tunnel for about three years because he was flashy, right,
and baseball doesn't like flashy. So Caitlin's not the first
athlete the deal with this, Tiger Woods had to deal
with a lot of comments and a lot of traditionalists
pushing back, and the netw only shows type, so Caitlin's
not the first to go through it. But I do
(35:04):
think the WNBA has gotten to a point where I
want to say, girls, girls, she's the female staff. Just
embrace the hell out of her. You're getting on private jets.
So I tried to be I tried to defend the
WNBA initially, But how does that land for you? Because
I think they've gotten to a point where I'm finding
(35:25):
it hard now, Like if she if the chippy play continues,
you may just lose me as a viewer.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it reminds me of they say
about academia that the fights are so vicious because the
stakes are so small and the WNBA there wasn't money
to be made, and so attention is the money. And
suddenly this player comes in and is getting all the attention.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
And this is the.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Primary thing that you care about if you're not getting
any sort of pay in accordance with what you think
your value is. And there was a ton of resentment
towards her, and a lot of people in that league
seem to get caught up on this whole.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Versus is problem.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
You know, there are people that can really grapple with
what is, and there are people who get really stuck
on how it ought to be and they're just fixated
on it.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It ought to be.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
It ought to be Asia Wilson ought to be a
huge superstar. Asia Wilson ought to be the person Nike
is promoting because she's the best player in the league,
and she is the best player.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
In the league.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
But that's just not what it is. People are interested
in Kaitlyn Clark. They like watching Caitlin Clark Asia Wilson's game.
It's more analogous to a Tim Duncan. People are not
as interested in that. You can say there's a racial
element of that. Okay, I don't know what to do
with that. We can't just replace Caitlyn Clark with somebody else.
She's the person who showed up for this particular job
(36:50):
of being Caitlin Clark. She's the one who's resonating. And
we can either benefit from what it is, or we
can tear apart everybody who's into it and make everybody
feel bad about it and try to stop it from happening.
That ladder move seems completely insane to me, and yet
it's entirely infected.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
A lot of the coverage of the.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
WNBA from people who support the league at least support it,
you know, in quotations, because they're not helping it when
they go about it that way. And even the you know,
Time magazine and even some of these publications that covered
it's like they're scared, they're worried if they're not giving
enough attention to the other players.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Look at the history of basketball. Kareem Janis Jokic did
not move the ratings needle. Yeah, Steph Michael, smaller players did.
This is the history of basketball. Is that. My son's
not a sports fan. He likes Steph Curry because he
(37:51):
feels like, oh, I could do that. I'm not. I'm
not that huge. Steve Nash had a wildly entertaining game.
He wasn't a dunk machine. I didn't think as a
kid growing up, Bob Lanier was fascinating. This game didn't
work for me. So the truth is basketball's history. The
WNBA should take a deep breath and realize basketball's history
(38:14):
is best score. Alex English led the eighties in scoring
in the NBA. Alex English. There have been so many players.
Kiki Vandaway, I don't remember a basket. He just never missed.
But there are players that are just aunt is dynamic
and fascinating. Kobe was fascinating, but a lot of the
bigs like and that's something we just have to be
(38:35):
honest about. Russell Westbrook's game. I've said this before. In
his prime, I had a pay to watch him play.
He couldn't shoot. I didn't love his handles, but sweet
mother of vertical jump, the guy was like it was
popcorn in a hot skillet. He was flying through the air.
So the NBA is so caught up on Well, she's
(38:55):
the leading scorer. People like different and no other woman
shot thirty three footers. It's that simple.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, they like what they like.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Not even Logan Roy could make Asia Wilson the biggest
sneaker saleswoman in basketball, and it's no distraction from her game.
She's excellent, But she's somebody, especially in the time story
when she did an event with the two K video game,
who's just complaining about the lack of attention she's gotten
(39:28):
and how it's not in accordance and it's not at
the level it should be at and it's look, life
to a certain degree is not fair, and that's actually
what makes basketball sort of fascinating to me. That's why
I wrote the Steph Curry article in twenty sixteen. There's
this ineffable charisma of stardom, of superstardom that you just
know it when you see it, and we're not always
(39:50):
sure about all the elements you need for it to
happen and for you to really pop in the way
that Michael Jordan did in the way that Alan Iverson did,
in a totally different way, in the way that Steph
Curry did. And the people who do it are worth
billions of dollars to the league and to these sneaker companies.
And then there are players who are effectively at the
(40:12):
same tier or level that just can't and just don't
and there's just something human about it, and it just
is what it is, and you're just going to make
yourself miserable trying to figure out how it ought to
be and change reality.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Ethan Strauss his podcast is House of Strauss. He's got
a wide variety of guests. He is a podcaster with dexterity.
He can talk business, he can talk sports, he can
talk media. You and Glass Piegle get all. You know.
It's one of my favorite You guys get into the
into the weeds on stuff, which I'm completely fascinated by,
(40:48):
and you do all this amazing homework and I just
want you to know I don't know the download numbers,
but all that all that wonky media stuff for a
guy that's been in that probably too long, I find fascinating.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Buddy, Oh, I really appreciate that. And thanks so much
for all the kind words. And this has been fantastic.
Thanks so much, Colin.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(00:25):
on my eggs, I put it on my sandwiches, I
put it on my pizzas. I love that. I talked
about this before vacation, then it happened during vacation, and
I was told by a source. I really trust that
Matt Stafford's agent and the Rams are going to meet
at the Combine this week and try to bang something out.
(00:47):
The Rams like him, Matt likes him. They want to
stay together. He understands the importance of McVeigh and Pukinakua
and the organization, and the Rams like him. And it's
a bad quarterback class and Aaron Rodgers is an option,
but not a preferred option. Stafford's better now so. But
here's an interesting thing. A lot of Giants have pushback
on this. We're not giving up the number three pick.
(01:10):
So my take is, would you flip picks with the
Rams because it's different. If this was a great quarterback
draft class, I'd be very reluctant to give it the
number three pick because I could trade down, right, which
the Rams would do if they got the number three pick.
They would trade down and get more picks. The Giants
not necessary. They're not necessarily going to trade down. They're
(01:33):
just going to draft the quarterback. Or they would get
Stafford so they wouldn't have to. But when you as
a GM, I would have no problem getting Matt Stafford
giving them a three year deal, maybe four. You know,
I would draft a quarterback second year into it and
just say, okay, I'll take the Rams pick late first
you get my draft top of the first. I would
(01:54):
have no problem doing that because they've been unwatchable for
a decade. The coach and the GM are on the
hot seat in New York between Jade and Daniels and
the Eagles roster. You're non competitive. You're not a competitive
team going forward. But when I say that, Giant fans
are you cannot trade the number three pick. There are drafts.
(02:14):
I agree with that. This isn't You're not getting cam Ward.
This is not one of those drafts.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
To me, if I was a GM, I couldn't trade
that valuable of a pick and pay a thirty seven
year old guy who does have some injury concerns at
this point in time. But those guys are fighting for
their jobs. So I think if you sat in Brian
dabols shoes, he wouldn't hesitate to do that. I think
he would just give the number three pick for Matt Stafford.
(02:42):
Why would he not. He's going to get fired and
fair not like he would not get a job immediately after.
And the general manager, what's also just speaking realities, would
never get another job, right. So to me, now if
I was the owner, I could not We would not
be doing that. That's I think it's risky business. I
would also not be business. Look at the last two
quarterbacks that were older, they got a lot of money
(03:04):
that the Packers, who are one of the best drafting
teams of like all time, We're like, yeah, we're done
with Aaron Rodgers, and then Kevin O'Connell was like, yeah,
I'm done with Kirk Cousins, and both those teams regretted
those moves immediately. I mean the Aaron Rodgers thing, well,
they had to make that move. Like I don't blame
them for making that trade the Jets, but that was
a disaster. The Cousins thing was even worse because at
(03:25):
least Rogers at one point in time was one of
the greatest players ever. Cousins always had some limitations coming
off the Achilles and let's face the Colin They're probably
gonna cut him in the next seven ten days. Yeah,
he's going to get cut. So now Stafford at this
point in time is better than that version of Rogers
and definitely Cousins. But I you know where I come
with Stafford. You know he is going to accumulate it.
(03:47):
I looked he made over two hundred and twenty million
dollars in Detroit. His career earnings right now are about
three hundred and sixty million dollars. So when his career
is over, he will be over four hundred million dollars.
So even after taxes and after paying agents, he will
have accumulated before he's forty years old, over two hundred
million dollars in net income. I'm not even talking about
what he's made off the field in la I know
I see him on sleep number commercials. He is really
(04:09):
really rich. Right at this point in time, when you
spent a decade and a half almost in an irrelevant
franchise and losing constantly in the peak of your powers,
wouldn't you go like, look at what Tom did? Like,
wouldn't it makes sense to behy Sean. It doesn't get
any better than the Rams. I know we're well run.
I know I have an elite coach. I'm in a
huge market. I have made Peyton Manning level money, and
(04:31):
I have gotten my ass kicked and we drafted the
top ten. Now I'm with a franchise who I don't
even know. These guys are bringing in and all of
a sudden, by mid season they're as kickers, Like, why
would I want what I would come out? I would
have stopped this conversation. I will do whatever it takes.
I'm not gonna make five million dollars, but why wouldn't
he be like, I'm making twenty seven this year. Let's
do a two year deal for like forty million. Guarantee
every penny you go out and buy players. I want
(04:53):
to be here. I'm gonna go Brady, I've already people like,
don't count other people's money. This guy has made so
much money and he played and such a bad franchise,
shouldn't he Like, I wouldn't want any part of the Giants.
If you're Matt.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Stafford, what are we talking about now?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I see? But he likes his money, there's no doubt.
Like him and Jimmy sexon there they have been Peyton
Manning like every penny, every penny, yeh penny. And I
don't blame the Rams like no, no more every pennybody.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I think Stafford wants to stay with the Rams, And
to your point, I would want to stay with the Rams.
The value of the value of Sean McVay.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
For a quarterback and just a franchise and how well
run they are at Yeah he saw the Lions for
fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah. No, I think a lot of this. I think
when things go public, and you know, like like steven
A's contract went public, I always think when I see
that that the person actually wants to sign with the
company it goes public, you know. I mean, and I'm
this is not a shot at stephen A, but I
always think that whenever a person because I could make
(05:57):
my stuff go public on my contract and I don't.
I'm not comfortable with it, but a lot of people are,
and I'm not begrudging them. But Stafford and these people
that it gets out either through their agent or sources.
Stuff gets out when people wants it want it out. Right,
Like in my entire life, stories get out when people
want it out. That's the reason stuff gets out. I've
(06:19):
got secrets in my career in negotiations never gotten out
because the company doesn't want them out, and I don't
want them out. This time into my negotiations, nothing gets out.
I don't want it out, they don't want it out.
I always tell my bosses keep it out of the press.
I don't want anything in the press. But when people do,
it does get out there. It's generally because the sides
(06:41):
want a deal, they want to remate. So when I
see the Matt Stafford stuff, my take is Matt wants
to stay in Los Angeles. He's got a gorgeous place
near the beach, and I think her moost are Manhattan Beach.
It's great weather. He was in the Midwest for years.
He's a Texas Georgia kid. He probably likes warm weather.
So I and this this is not an indictment on
(07:02):
anybody that goes public, but it discounts in politics if
you're trying to get legislation passed. It counts in contracts.
It counts when I when I, I mean stuff is
out when somebody is trying to create leverage. But they
truthfully they want to stay where they're at. So I
think he'll be a round.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think, yeah, I think this one's pretty clear. Because
this kind of happened last year, it feels a little
more out this year. Is that the Rams are tough
to negotiate with. You know, early on in their tenure
with Les and John, they signed a deal that they
clearly regretted in Todd Gurley. And ever since they've been
pretty good, right, and they haven't got in these positions where,
(07:43):
you know, the Niners have kind of found themselves the
last couple of years like ah, we regret that Debo deal. Ah,
we regret that Iuke deal. And now they're kind of
burned and now they're pivoting like, oh, we got to
be careful with doing that stuff. The Rams learned early
on because Todd Gurley's need just one and this Stafford thing.
I think they have just been they've been tough with him.
You know, he's been you know, with Detroit, they always
bet right over and gave him and he was always
(08:05):
the highest paid guy. You know. The last couple of years,
it's been hard. He's like, I'm only making twenty seven.
They're like, well, we'll give you a couple of million
dollars more, but we're not. We're not giving you two years,
one hundred million dollars. Mat that's just not happening, right,
And we want you, you want us, we're winning, listen,
And I know you only have a chance, Like once
he leaves, he's probably not going to make when he's
(08:26):
forty two years old, retired thirty million dollars his first
shot whatever he does. So I understand you have the
opportunity to make a lot of it. But he's made
so much in winning, like he could go down as
a legendary player that I would be very careful about
driving this hard negotiation. Now. I think he also knows, like,
what what would the Rams do? You know, Sean McVay.
They're not really in the business of just like, oh,
(08:46):
we'll figure it out on the fly like that. They
understand what they have, but I think they have some
negotiating power because, like you said, he doesn't want to leave.
Look at his options like the Giants are, the Titans
are going to try. What are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Ros uh?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And I do think there's I think the Air Rogers
thing has some legs. And I'll say this, we know
that coaching matters with quarterbacks. Last ten games last year
when Solo was gone, the Jets were one of the
poorest coach teams in the league, up and down both
sides of the ball, and Aaron put up good numbers.
Aaron with McVeigh would put up good numbers, B plus numbers,
(09:19):
maybe not A numbers. So I think that's something they've
thought about. Aaron's got a place in Malibu, and it's like, hey,
if we get trapped here, we'll bring on Aeron for
a couple of year deal plus Aaron. From all the indications,
Aaron wanted to be a Jet and was dumped for
the second time, so I think Aaron does not want
to end his career like that. And again, I thought
in his last ten games he had like a ninety
(09:39):
eight passer rating. He was pretty good. So my take
is Aaron. It's not a I mean I had somebody
that I really trust tell me this that Aaron Rodgers
is who McVeigh would go after. I mean, he went
after a guy in Baker Mayfield that came with baggage.
He went after him in one second.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, Wentz they got off. You know, they've done a
lot of that. He has, no he's got He's like
the young version of Andy Reid. They'll take on problems.
The difference though, is, to me, there's a big difference
is the player Aaron Rodgers wants no part of getting hit.
He just will not. And that's still a quality that
Stafford will sit in there. He will get peppered as
he delivers a strike, and that you know, at the
(10:19):
level in which the Rams, I mean they're the only
team that went toe to toe with the Eagles, you know,
so it's like they're trying to compete for the Super Bowl.
That difference in standing in there throughout the course of
a season, in the big games, I think there would
be a drop off unless Aaron was just willing again
to play like he did, and I don't think at
forty one years old he would be. I mean, that
is one thing Stafford will sit in there kind of
(10:40):
like the old school quarterbacks and still get hit. So
I understand maybe his negotiating, like, hey guys, I'm taking
a lot of hits here too, Like I mean, I
need some money for this, for these bruises that I
wake up with every Monday morning.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Let's just throw this name out there because the combine
starts this week and before we get into that free agencies.
After that, Sam Darnold had a couple of disappointing games
end of the season. Sam Darnold a really good season.
Sam's got a market. Sam is still in the middle
of his prime. What is your I contend that Las
(11:12):
Vegas and with Chip Kelly and the Colts with Shane
Steiken are really good fits in they feels like Sam
in that division can go toe to toe with those quarterbacks.
You're not going toe to toe with a Herbert I
don't think, or a Mahomes, But I think you put
him in the AFC South with Shane Steikin. I think
(11:33):
he can go toe to toe with a CJ. Stroud
on most Sundays. What do you think happens with Sam?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, I mean a lot change. I remember going live
with you right after he made that throw against Seattle
and I was like, this guy, how are they going
to not give him a huge contract? And it shows
you the power of these primetime games. Let's face there
was a lot, you know, obviously the division was on
the line that Sunday night, and then the playoff game
was really, really bad. I still think at minimum he's
going to get a Baker Mayfield this year, one hundred
million dollars type contest, isn't he? And clearly with good
(12:02):
coaching you can. I mean, his team was sixty minutes
away from the number one overall Sea and he played
a massive role in that. So I think you gotta
be careful. Yeah, I think that game exposed a little bit.
When he starts getting blitzed, he starts you know, I
don't want to say seeing ghost. He's come a long
way since then, but he looked dramatically different in those
two games than he did. But you'd also say he's
(12:24):
you know, Aaron Glenn became a head coach, one of
the best defensive coordinators in the league and just was
blitzing them every single play. And Sean McVay and Shula
are just they had that defense roleing I mean they went,
they were hitting Hurts, they made him look bad in
that game, they were playing good defense. So I still
would have no problem given now that, here's the thing, like,
you know, these quarterbacks, the dominoes, all these teams looking
(12:46):
are gonna have some ranking going into the combine when
they talk to the agent. So it's like, are you
all in on Sam Donald? Because if you draft or
if you signed Sam Donald to a multi year deal,
you're probably not drafting a quarterback if you're the Giants,
if you're the Titans, if you're the Raiders, But if
you take Cousins or Rogers, you know, you're probably still
have no problem drafting a quarterback really high. So I
think Darnold would be the one guy that would just
(13:07):
get signed and immediately become, you know, kind of not
your long term starter, but at least in the immediate
next couple of year starter.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
What do you expect combine starts on Thursday? Shador standers
won't work out at the combine, which has become kind
of a trend with quarterbacks. What are you expecting? What
are you looking for?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, to me, Shador is a good example of like,
coming into this year, every important college director slash assistant
GM saw him play life. He was such a big
prospect coming into the season. There is not an NFL
team worth their salt, and every team, once they realized
we needed a quarterback probably saw him multiple times play game.
(13:49):
So it's the combine for him. And I'd even say
the same thing about cam Ward. Remember when he transferred
to Miami, he was the number one essentially free agent
college football. I think it would go for him as well,
which wouldn't shock me if he doesn't throw. Though, Chador isn't,
you know, some elite prospect in terms of his qualities, Like,
if you're Josh Allen, you should throw at the combine.
(14:10):
Why you're throwing one hundred miles an hour. I remember
Lamar Jackson when he got all the pushback about Pollan's
common about the wide receiver. He's like, I'm not gonna run.
It's like, Lamar, you're gonna run a four to two.
Everyone's head's gonna turn and you're gonna be the talk
of the combine. It was a mistake not running. Now,
granted it all worked out. I don't blame Chador for
not throwing in this environment because it's not the best environment.
(14:32):
If I'm cam Ward, you have a huge arm, throw, yeah,
I would No one cares about completions and completions you're
throwing people you don't know. Let that ball rip as
all the coaches and gms are sitting there in the
boxes and in the seats right there in Indy. So
I think those two guys and a huge part of
the combine is the interviews. And with a quarterback, and
(14:52):
I would throw Jackson Darton here, who I think is
gonna gain some momentum as a potential first round pick.
Is the person like, what are you like as guy?
I mean last year you see some of these clips,
it was a pretty high level class. You know, Jane
Daniel's really high level guy. Obviously Caleb everyone had known
him for years and he was a lot to go
number one. But Drake May, Michael Pennix, I mean, the
(15:13):
bo Nicks, JJ McCarthy. So it was like that they're
gonna crush these interviews. Coaches, this is the first the
gms and the scouts have been watching these guys for years.
The coaches, you know, NFL coaches don't really watch as
much college football as the average fan would think. The
head coach might have it on, you know, Andy Reid does,
but a lot of guys are just sco tunnel vision.
(15:34):
They don't know that much about these players and definitely
have never met him and a lot of times haven't
really evaluated them. So this is kind of their first exposure.
So meeting them as a human being and getting to
know the guy and getting to know like their football
smarts and their football IQ. It's a huge, huge moment
for all the guys that you know, we're in the
mix to. I mean, all these guys are draft We're
(15:55):
gonna get drafted, the majority of the guys going to Combine,
but definitely the guys that have like the ability to
get drafted in the first round. I mean there's just
a lot of money on the line, you know, getting drafted.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Ygh.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, the Combine's interesting. I think I was into it
more ten years ago, and I think some coaches feel
the same way. They don't necessarily some go, some don't.
I have you been surprised as a former NFL scout,
some of these coaching staffs just don't go anymore. They
just say I'm not going, not wasting my time. Does
that surprise you?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, honestly has bothered me in the past because I go, well,
Belichick always went, and now I'll promise you this, Andy
Reid's going to be there. It's like, well, if the
best guy's there and values it. It doesn't mean he
goes to everything, but he values meeting the guys because
there's one thing to evaluate them off a tape. Everything's taped, yeah, right,
your workout and even your interviews, and some of these
(16:42):
guys now can be there in a zoom interview. There
is a big difference if you're interviewing someone to be
the thirteenth overall pick standing there and talking to him
and meeting him, seeing him face to face than zooming him.
So I do believe you should go. I saw my
guy Tim Kala Kami in the Bay Area, Kyle Shanahan
like McVeigh stop going. Well, it's one thing when you're
going to the Super Bowl or the NFC Championship every year.
(17:03):
He reported, Kyle's probably gonna go this year. Kind of
need to meet these guys. But my thing is like,
if the top coach is there and the Sandy Reid
runs the league, like, you should be there. And so
I do believe there's value, not in like your change
of direction in a condra okay, but like you might
draft this guy in the second round. It's kind of
gonna be a big deal when it's like a year
(17:24):
in you hate the kid and it's your own fault
when you didn't put in max effort to get to
know him, to get to meet him every opportunity. I mean,
at this point in time, the salary CAP's almost three
hundred million dollars. It's pretty big business. Yeah, you know,
these are your most important assets. So I do think
the value is more less about the running and catching
the gauntlet drill and more just sitting with the kid
(17:45):
and interviewing them and being there with your coordinators. Not
every coach needs to go, but to me, the head
coach and the coordinators should all be present with the
with the scouting staff.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
There are certain things that are just innate. They're true.
You can't argue them. There's going to be a couple
players in the top fifteen that will be busts. They
just won't be very good, and for a variety of issues.
Some I mean, Romadonze is talented, he wasn't as good
as I thought as a rookie I think he'll I mean,
(18:18):
I thought that'd be more splash, but I think.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
A lot of it was.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
It was such a mess, you know, it was all
a mess, and I think he'll bounce back. I'm gonna
throw Travis Hunter out as a player that could be,
that could underachieve. So I don't doubt he's good enough
to be a number two receiver in the NFL and
(18:43):
a number one corner. I don't doubt either, but to
ask to be both, I mean, if you had a
great linebacker who also played tight end, it's undeniable that
the physical toll would hurt what your best at. I
would put him at corner, but he wants to be
a receiver. I don't know if he's a number one
receiver in the NFL. Maybe on a weaker team. He's
(19:05):
certainly good enough. But you can't be a number one
receiver if you have a young quarterback who's trying to
get reps confidence in timing. It's a timing position. Running
Back isn't Cornerback isn't you can I mean high school
to college, college to the pros running back in cornerback,
you can walk in and just play. You could just
(19:26):
I mean those are two positions. I've been told this forever.
You would know this is a scout running back in cornerback.
You could miss some of camp, you could be a
you could have a contract hold out. You're ready to
play week one or week two.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Well, it's a very instinctive PAUSI yeah, both of them.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Wide receiver, Especially with a young quarterback, it's a timing position.
Help Brady was an old quarterback. If he didn't trust
you'd be in the right spot, Tom would ghost you.
I think Travis Hunter, I think this coming to a
bad team, he'll have a lot of leverage. He'll play
both ways. I could see that being a problem.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Well, you know, and we'll find out. It was just
a name on a paper. Did announce he's going to
the combine as a corner. Now all the top guys
will be interviewed, they go to the podium. It'll be
interesting if he says, I'm here as a corner, but
I also plan on playing wide receiver. I do think
it's fair to say most high level people in any
industry are very singular focused, and it is very difficult
(20:25):
to spread yourself thin, especially when you're factory in youth.
I mean he's very young. I think it's impossible to
go do what he did. What he did in college
was the Big twelve, wasn't the SEC or the Big ten,
but it was still one of the greatest athletic achievements
we've ever seen. The amount of snaps he's playing, do
you agree, Oh yeah, But if you're going to be
a both way corner wide receiver just playing corner alone,
(20:48):
think of the wide receivers right now in the NFL,
the talent on a weekly basis of just pick up
a random team who their schedule is. On a week
you're chasing those guys for sixty seventy snaps. He would
be the number one corner and then you would try
to play full time wide receiver. I think it would
be borderline impossible. On the body. I don't think it's
And you go back to look at Deon Sanders, I
(21:09):
don't even think he had that many catches in his career.
And this is and Dion, I mean, was just a
better prospect. Yes, I mean, try sound is a great prospect.
Give me a break. Deon's one of the greatest athletes
in the history of America. So I do think he
just needs to focus on one of the positions, and
I hope and I think he's making the right decision
right now at corner, and then he can be at
(21:31):
just a high level corner. I don't think it's possible
to go both ways. I don't think any team wants
him to be. That doesn't mean you can't, you know,
Ben Johnson type coordinator can't run a trick for him,
bring him in on offense. They used to do that
with Dion when I was a kid. But like, I
want you to be a lockdown corner, Derek Stingley, He's
probably gonna get a hundred million dollars offseason. Why because
he goes up against your number one wide receiver who
(21:51):
are all making one hundred and eighty million dollars and
locks him down. Derevas did it, Sherman did it? You
get paid a lot of money, and he's it's more
valuable because find it's much easier to find a wide
receiver than it is a corner. There just aren't that many.
Most teams don't have one good corner, right The teams
that have two are like complete outliers in the nation. Yets. Yeah,
(22:12):
So I hope he stays just at one now we'll
see I think, you know, Dion, who's essentially like feels
like his father, constantly talks like he's going to do
both ways, like, so he's not slowing it down. And
I do think Dion speaks for Travis a little bit,
and Travis hasn't walked away from it. So I do
think it's going to be interesting to see in Indy
when he talks exactly what he says, because if he
(22:34):
does say like, I plan on doing both like he's
telling you like, eventually you got to just listen to
what he's saying and believe him.
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Speaker 2 (24:07):
Okay, you know he's one of my favorite people. His
name is Ethan Strauss and he used to be part
of the traditional media and he kicked that dead end
profession of the curve and now he is a sub
stack Maven. He is a podcasting whiz. House of Strauss
to me is my podcast listen of choice, especially on
(24:29):
long walks. I want to talk about the Warriors you
covered for years. So I looked Sportico had a list
today of the five most valuable franchises in the United States.
Three of them are NBA franchises and one was the Warriors. Now,
if I would have told you twenty years ago it's
going to go Cowboys and Golden State Warriors, you anybody
(24:52):
would have thought, what the hell happened? They were a
mess for twenty years. I mean I grew up with
them with Rick Berry in the seventies. You know, they
had some interesting teams Tim Hardaway, but it was just
kind of a dead brand, which the Yankees were, by
the way, in the eighties, the Don Mattingly years, it
was a dead brand. You can look back and there's
(25:14):
a lot of people that can take credit. But I've
thought about this. The Lakers were very big pre Lebron
and the Cowboys were big before Dak and most of
these organizations that are listed. The Celtics have been big
since Bill Russell. Yeah, but you look at the Warriors
(25:34):
and as somebody that covered them, can you make an
argument if there are eight billion dollar franchise, that's seven
and a half of that have been driven by Steph Curry.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I know it's the number of a B. I'll say
that much about it, whatever it is. I feel like
Logan Roy, the Logan Roy line where nobody wanted to
watch the Warriors, but then we got Steph Curry and
we got some draft picks, and look at them. It's
amazing how forgotten it is, how irrelevant they were. And
I remember being in those locker rooms where a tumblewee
(26:06):
could have blown through because there's no.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Media at all.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
That's all I got to covering them, Colin, is that
I was just blogging about them as a fan on
a fan site, Warriors World, back in the day, and
I had other jobs that I was doing, and the
guy running the blog said, you know, we can get
a credential, and I said really, and says, yeah, nobody's
going to these games like they're desperate for somebody to
(26:30):
go to one of these games because they've got the
beat writer and then they've got the other beat writer.
Half the time, those two beat writers are talking to
each other and they're saying, Hey, if you don't show
up to practice, I won't show up to practice. And
then we both get the day off like that was
happening back then, and nobody would show up to practice
and get any kind of story. It's been driven by Steph.
(26:51):
It's been driven by more than Steph. I'm a little
bit defensive on behalf of your guy, Draymond Green's legacy.
I know he can annoy people, but I think because
he annoys people, they start rewriting history. I see people say,
oh my god, drayam am was drafted into the perfect situation.
Nobody has been drafted into a more perfect situation. And
(27:13):
I go when he showed up, there was no situation.
There was no situation to speak of. Nobody cared about
this team, nobody cared about this franchise. Nobody expected anything
good on twenty twelve draft night, and that guy was
a second round pick, no guaranteed spot, and he had
to scrape claw wrench jobs away from guys getting paid
(27:36):
a lot more money, with a lot more organizational investment.
He became the best defensive player of his generation, which
then merged with Steph Curry being the best offensive player
of his generation, and a lot of other things have
gone right in between some other things going wrong. But
it's a crazy, just miracle of a story. And yeah,
(27:57):
I think you're right to hit on it that we
almost take it for granted. We almost act as though
this has always been a glamour franchise. They've always been here.
It was not that way they were Clippers North.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
It was different.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think there's an argument to be made, and I
haven't given it that much thought that Steph Curry, more
than any basketball player, football player, golfer, tennis player, or
hockey player changed his individual sport more. I don't think
there's ever been a player in the I mean, oh,
(28:32):
Tawny's great, but we had Babe Ruth. He pitched and
batted too. You look at the great football players, Well,
Mahomes was great, so was John Elway and Dan Marino
and Brett farre and and they're they're I think you're
I mean, Philadelphia has a tush push. People are a
(28:52):
little uncomfortable with it outside of Philadelphia. It's not changing football.
It's just a really good fourth down play. Steph curR
has changed every single level of basketball. Everything he's changed.
I mean, I just I look at the shots being
taken now, and like anything else, any cultural change is
(29:13):
that at some point they all go south. Like analytics
for baseball, You're like, yeah, the game is more efficient.
Oh wait, now it's more boring. Oh wait, three pointers
the math are better than two pointers. Oh wait, now
it's boring. That's the way analytics all work is that
these are TV products, and initially they make the game
more efficient, and they work on a volume scale regular season,
(29:37):
but ultimately analytics don't generally work in any sport quite
as effectively in postseasons, and they generally aren't good for television.
And so Steph, now there's a little bit of a Okay,
we all fell in love with small ball and Steph,
but now it's been copied so often and people are
(29:58):
doing at such a a much more a poor level.
They don't I mean, Houston can't shoot, and they're I mean,
we got Wemby and guy is shooting too many threes.
Joel Embiid's never shot more threes. He shoots twenty nine percent.
So but I do think Steph more than any athlete
of my lifetime literally changed Muhammad Ali personality driven athlete.
(30:22):
I think I think he was for a long time
all Lee was what people looked at and went, oh
my god, look how big you get if you let
your personality out. But I mean, that's just my take
that Steph Curry is probably one of one in a
cultural it's changing of sports esthetic and style of play.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You said a lot there.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I love this topic is a great topic.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I totally agree, and I think what's remarkable about Steph
and we need to add it when we say nobody
has changed their sport more. When that happens, people can
become a victim of their own influence. Mike D'Antoni revolutionizes basketball,
but then he's almost a less he's almost a less
effective coach because all these other people learn how to
(31:06):
do it and maybe even refine it and maybe even
do it better, and he gets overrun and he doesn't
actually become a championship winning coach. The crazy thing about
Steph is that he's been doing it for over ten
years and he has revolutionized the NBA and he's still
the best at doing it. He showed people the way
(31:26):
it could be done. He gave them the recipe and
he's still the best chef cooking it. I didn't mean
to make a chef curry joke right there, but you
see what I'm saying. That's unbelievable to do that, to
be so influential and yet remain the best at what
you're doing. Now, the other part of it that you've said,
(31:47):
the malign influence on the sport with analytics, the optimization problem,
I think that's real. There are these strange things where
sometimes we like something when one person does it, but
we don't like when a bunch of other people are
doing it. I felt that way about Zachlow's writing. Zach
Low probably the greatest NBA writer of all time. He
(32:10):
had a very particular sort of style that was highly
informational and could be a little bit quirky but was
fairly dry. But the way he did it was great.
But so many younger writers coming up and bloggers coming up,
they wanted to be like Zach Low because Zach was
the man. And I looked at what they were doing
and I went, I don't know if I like you
(32:32):
doing this. It doesn't work when you do it. This
isn't a recipe that works when somebody else does it.
It would have been better if you went with something else.
And maybe even a generation before that, Bill Simmons might
have been that guy. Or I loved Bill Simmons columns.
But then I'm watching people try to be irreverent and
funny in the way Bill did it, and it's just
this doesn't scale. This isn't what I want, This isn't
(32:54):
what I want. I just want Bill doing it. That's
what it feels a little bit like right now. In
the NBA, where a lot of people loved watching those
Warriors in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, not everybody loved watching
these teams that emulated the three point shooting. As optimization
takes over and now most of the shots are going
to be three pointers.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
You know what I thought was really interesting because I
thought Caitlin Clark I was really disappointed in the WNBA
is that I thought Caitlin Clark's appeal was very simple.
Holy shit, we found that female Steph Curry. She's taking
shots women don't take. I didn't think there was anything
to it. And when and then all of a sudden,
(33:39):
and she has this Angel Reese. You know, competition in
college like magic and bird. It pivots to the professional
league and it's fascinating. And Angel Reese, I think her
success helps Caitlin Clark. I think it feels Bird Magic,
although I don't think Angel is close to Kaylin as
an influencer. Bird and Magic both had that kind of
(33:59):
ended up the perfect cities. Bird in kind of tough
guy Boston and Magic and you know, showy Los Angeles.
But it was funny because with male sports, I feel
sometimes I feel bad for Caitlin Clark in the WNBA
that people are trying to explain her popularity. Nobody ever
(34:22):
had to explain Steph Curry. It was just did he
just shoot from thirty four feet off balance and make
three in a row? And there's part of me that
feels sympathetic to the WNBA and part of me that doesn't.
First of all, I feel like when you're young, when
Bryce Harper came into baseball, he went through an Andy
(34:44):
duframe tunnel for about three years because he was flashy, right,
and baseball doesn't like flashy. So Caitlin's not the first
athlete the deal with this, Tiger Woods had to deal
with a lot of comments and a lot of traditionalists
pushing back, and the netw only shows type, so Caitlin's
not the first to go through it. But I do
(35:04):
think the WNBA has gotten to a point where I
want to say, girls, girls, she's the female staff. Just
embrace the hell out of her. You're getting on private jets.
So I tried to be I tried to defend the
WNBA initially, But how does that land for you? Because
I think they've gotten to a point where I'm finding
(35:25):
it hard now, Like if she if the chippy play continues,
you may just lose me as a viewer.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it reminds me of they say
about academia that the fights are so vicious because the
stakes are so small and the WNBA there wasn't money
to be made, and so attention is the money. And
suddenly this player comes in and is getting all the attention.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
And this is the.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Primary thing that you care about if you're not getting
any sort of pay in accordance with what you think
your value is. And there was a ton of resentment
towards her, and a lot of people in that league
seem to get caught up on this whole.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Versus is problem.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
You know, there are people that can really grapple with
what is, and there are people who get really stuck
on how it ought to be and they're just fixated
on it.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It ought to be.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
It ought to be Asia Wilson ought to be a
huge superstar. Asia Wilson ought to be the person Nike
is promoting because she's the best player in the league,
and she is the best player.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
In the league.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
But that's just not what it is. People are interested
in Kaitlyn Clark. They like watching Caitlin Clark Asia Wilson's game.
It's more analogous to a Tim Duncan. People are not
as interested in that. You can say there's a racial
element of that. Okay, I don't know what to do
with that. We can't just replace Caitlyn Clark with somebody else.
She's the person who showed up for this particular job
(36:50):
of being Caitlin Clark. She's the one who's resonating. And
we can either benefit from what it is, or we
can tear apart everybody who's into it and make everybody
feel bad about it and try to stop it from happening.
That ladder move seems completely insane to me, and yet
it's entirely infected.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
A lot of the coverage of the.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
WNBA from people who support the league at least support it,
you know, in quotations, because they're not helping it when
they go about it that way. And even the you know,
Time magazine and even some of these publications that covered
it's like they're scared, they're worried if they're not giving
enough attention to the other players.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Look at the history of basketball. Kareem Janis Jokic did
not move the ratings needle. Yeah, Steph Michael, smaller players did.
This is the history of basketball. Is that. My son's
not a sports fan. He likes Steph Curry because he
(37:51):
feels like, oh, I could do that. I'm not. I'm
not that huge. Steve Nash had a wildly entertaining game.
He wasn't a dunk machine. I didn't think as a
kid growing up, Bob Lanier was fascinating. This game didn't
work for me. So the truth is basketball's history. The
WNBA should take a deep breath and realize basketball's history
(38:14):
is best score. Alex English led the eighties in scoring
in the NBA. Alex English. There have been so many players.
Kiki Vandaway, I don't remember a basket. He just never missed.
But there are players that are just aunt is dynamic
and fascinating. Kobe was fascinating, but a lot of the
bigs like and that's something we just have to be
(38:35):
honest about. Russell Westbrook's game. I've said this before. In
his prime, I had a pay to watch him play.
He couldn't shoot. I didn't love his handles, but sweet
mother of vertical jump, the guy was like it was
popcorn in a hot skillet. He was flying through the air.
So the NBA is so caught up on Well, she's
(38:55):
the leading scorer. People like different and no other woman
shot thirty three footers. It's that simple.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, they like what they like.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Not even Logan Roy could make Asia Wilson the biggest
sneaker saleswoman in basketball, and it's no distraction from her game.
She's excellent, But she's somebody, especially in the time story
when she did an event with the two K video game,
who's just complaining about the lack of attention she's gotten
(39:28):
and how it's not in accordance and it's not at
the level it should be at and it's look, life
to a certain degree is not fair, and that's actually
what makes basketball sort of fascinating to me. That's why
I wrote the Steph Curry article in twenty sixteen. There's
this ineffable charisma of stardom, of superstardom that you just
know it when you see it, and we're not always
(39:50):
sure about all the elements you need for it to
happen and for you to really pop in the way
that Michael Jordan did in the way that Alan Iverson did,
in a totally different way, in the way that Steph
Curry did. And the people who do it are worth
billions of dollars to the league and to these sneaker companies.
And then there are players who are effectively at the
(40:12):
same tier or level that just can't and just don't
and there's just something human about it, and it just
is what it is, and you're just going to make
yourself miserable trying to figure out how it ought to
be and change reality.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Ethan Strauss his podcast is House of Strauss. He's got
a wide variety of guests. He is a podcaster with dexterity.
He can talk business, he can talk sports, he can
talk media. You and Glass Piegle get all. You know.
It's one of my favorite You guys get into the
into the weeds on stuff, which I'm completely fascinated by,
(40:48):
and you do all this amazing homework and I just
want you to know I don't know the download numbers,
but all that all that wonky media stuff for a
guy that's been in that probably too long, I find fascinating.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Buddy, Oh, I really appreciate that. And thanks so much
for all the kind words. And this has been fantastic.
Thanks so much, Colin.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
The volume
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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