Colin’s top takes of the week.
First, he’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1.
They start with the red-hot 24-1 Oklahoma City Thunder and why they are positioned to go on a 5+ year run of sustained success due to smart management & analytics rather than money like the Dodgers do in baseball (3:00). They debate whether the goal of parity is achievable and whether it’s good for sports (9:30).
They talk about why the “influencer” nature of Shedeur Sanders scared teams away from drafting him and why he’s proven to be much better than GM’s and scouts thought he’d be, but Danny cautions that it’s too soon to label him a franchise quarterback (13:00).
Finally, they highlight the tremendous progress and improvement Caleb Williams has made in year two. Colin argues that his comp is a “shorter Josh Allen” and Danny counters with a “young Aaron Rodgers” (26:00)
Then, Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to try and make sense of the lost season for the Ravens and the huge decline in play from Lamar Jackson (33:00), discuss the dominant nature of the LA Rams (38:15) and what to make of JJ McCarthy’s best game of the season.
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Netflix is
basically Santa this year. Two NFL games on Christmas Day,
streaming live at one eastern Cowboys Commanders Dallas is suddenly
red ha could play big for the NFC playoff picture.
Then at four point thirty you've got the Lions struggling
against the Vikings. That's Midwest Football playoff stakes. Two teams
battling it out for the number one seed last year,
(00:25):
must win for Detroit. So watching holiday football is a tradition.
The whole family can get into, settle in, watch it.
The NFL Christmas Day games live on Netflix starting at
one pm Eastern time. Watching holiday football is a tradition.
The whole family can enjoy, open some gifts, grab some food,
settle in and watch NFL live on Netflix Christmas Day
starting at one pm Eastern time. So Danny Parkins is
(00:52):
joining me. You know, I'm from First Things First. And
if our camera angle looks a little weird this week,
it's a long story, but you're gonna have to deal
with it. Well that's just technicoh to you, that's finest.
So I had this rant today on my show, and
this has been a pretty consistent thing for thirty years
in the business that there is no even so, just
(01:15):
own dynasties. They're coming and they're going to come in
different forms. When the Lakers dominated forever, it wasn't that
they always paid the most. It's because Jerry Buss was
cool and the Laker girls were cool, and the weather
in the winter in a winter league was great, and
so people liked playing there. And then pat Riley went
to the Miami Heat and he sold the same thing.
(01:35):
Miami's cool. Miami's got perfect winter weather. So they won
on weather cool, not the most money. Duke basketball won
on resume and Mike Krzyzewski and il By the way,
now Indiana football's got better financing than most of the country.
Is it unfair? There is no even so. Oklahoma City
(01:57):
is not only twenty four and one, but analytically the
best defensive team ever they are. I mean, they're blowing
people out for two years now. The playoffs are different, right,
but they're going to have three first round picks this
year and could win the lottery, could have the number
one pick. And if you look at their egoists roster,
their coach, their GM, their bench, which is maybe the
deepest ever. They could have a five year run. Their
(02:18):
advantage has simply been they're smarter, they're more efficient, and
the new CBA, I would argue, is more putative to
ineffective gms. It punishes them more. I'll throw one more
stat at you. In nineteen eighty nine, the richest people
in the world had one point three trillion dollars. They
now have seventeen times that. Okay, seven different presidents. The
(02:38):
point is you can't legislate fair or even even socialism
doesn't perfectly work, and that when I look at OKC
and I look at the Dodgers, at least the Dodgers
are an interesting dynasty. At least they're doing it. Money
is their advantage and deferring payments. But it's watchable, okay,
seed to analytics, it's terribly boring. And that Adam Silver
(03:01):
wants everybody he wants parody, and I think it's idealistic
when the truth is you can't stop dynasties in golf, tennis,
skiing women's basketball. It doesn't matter. It's gender free.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Baseball and the NBA should both both should embrace the
money aspect. Players want to play in certain cities people
want to live in certain cities. They don't want to
live in Kansas City. They want to live in New York,
in LA and Boston and Chicago. And so when I
(03:38):
watch Oklahoma City's dominant dominance, I say, well, at least
the Dodgers dynasty. You just don't like that. It's money.
At least it's captivating, at least it's interesting. So I
know you don't agree with that I laid out my
but my take is the NBA, of all the pro leagues,
everything is going up. Nil has made the reter richer. Right,
everything's going up. Basketball is not because got parody and
(04:03):
nobody really truly wants parody, nor is it good for
the business model.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, I don't know if we're dealing with a little
bit of causation correlation there. Like you think that basketball's
ratings are not going up because of of parody. I
think ratings were up in Kansas City for the Royals
when they were good. They were down when they were
(04:28):
down when they're bad. Generally speaking, Like, my guess is
the Oklahoma City Thunder's local ratings are very good. Great,
that would be my guess, right, And so like, do
the Thunder have a fan base that is national or international.
Obviously not. So if a dynasty, because of Sam Presty's genius,
(04:53):
happens to take place in Oklahoma City, will that have
the appeal for basketball that a dynasty in LA and
the Dodgers, one of the most famous brands in all
of global sports has for baseball. Of course not. But
like if it was flipped and the analytically brilliant thing
that you called boring in basketball happened to be occurring
(05:17):
for the Bulls or the Celtics or the next my
guess is the ratings would be up. And if the
thing that the team that like happened to have the
best local TV deal in baseball was a small market
brand that people didn't care about, I don't think the
ratings would be up that way. Like I think it's
I think it's the Dodgers that is. It's captivating because
(05:40):
it's the Dodgers, and it's boring quote unquote to people
because it's Oklahoma City. Not necessarily because dynasty. I agree
with you, Dynasties generally speaking drive interest, like yeah, the Patriots,
the Chiefs, the Warriors, the Dodgers like, but the Spurs
when they were a dynasty weren't slaying it in national
(06:00):
TV ratings because it was San Antonio. So I don't
I don't know that I agree that. I think it's
like dynasty and brand drives ratings, unless in football, where
everything rates. Right, Yeah, so I guess, I guess basketball
and baseball, I do think it's more brand dependent.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well, I think, I guess. My My ultimate point is
stop worrying about tanking and stop worrying about dynasties. Players
want to play where they want to play. There's too
many franchises, there's greed all over sports from the ownership position,
and I think we worry way too much about, you know, tanking.
The NBA has become to me kind of fear based
(06:43):
on this, Like they want to tell you it's a
player first league, but then they limit where players can go.
Whoever drafts them, whatever, you know, morbid, boring, bad team
drafts them. You are punished forever wanting to go play
where you'd want to live in the winter. You're punished,
(07:04):
right like a Sacramento No player wants to live in Sacramento.
Most don't want to live in Salt Lake City. But
you're punished economically if you're going like I'm gonna go
live in Miami or I'm gonna go live in where Chicago.
You're punished.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
But if they didn't have those rules, Yeah, is there
any way for Milwaukee and Oklahoma City to win?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, Oklahoma City's doing it now well.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
But but no, but they had any But they had
an advantage for Shay to re sign. Shae was in.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
He's a he's a low ego, low publicity star. He
doesn't care like he's a guy that would be like, yeah,
I can make a little bit more money here, but
it's so swayed. You can make so much more if
you stay that what young man who grew up with
average means is going to turn down two hundred million dollars,
(07:54):
So you actually become a prisoner of where you get drafted.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Listen, if we want to have a conversation about like
drafts in general not being great for like labor in
the workforce, I think that applies to all of the sports. Right,
Like like my my brother in law graduates from Purdue
Computer Engineering, and he had offers from different places, right,
(08:18):
and he could choose, and he got to choose, and
he chose very he chose well, like, you know, the
kid works in Nvidia, and like it's gone well for him,
Like could could have could have ended up at Hewlett Packard,
would have been fine, but the dividend wouldn't be as good.
But so yeah, like he had options, he wasn't drafted
to in Vidia. He chose in Vidio, right, So I
(08:39):
obviously agree that that is anti capitalistic on American all
of those things, but I don't think that. I do
think that sports would in general, Like we can talk
specific Dodgers, specific Thunder specific any point in time, I
do think they in general would be less interesting if
(09:01):
the Lakers and the Heat won every NBA Championship, the
Dodgers and the Yankees won every World Series, and you know,
on and on down the line, if only the big
cities and only the big brands ever won, I do
think it would be less interesting. We do like David
and Goliath. It is a pretty popular narrative that's built.
And like I also would say like Yannis's title in
(09:26):
Milwaukee as just a basketball fan, and again, I'm watching
all of them, right, I'm watching all of them. I
would argue that Yannis, like not all titles are created equal.
I think We've talked about this, like in terms of
how I view them. Like Katie hates this argument, but
I will contend that it is fair and logical. His
titles plural in Golden State are not as impressive as
(09:51):
Yannis's singular title in Milwaukee because Katie, because the cap
spiked in an abnormal and he joins a seventy three
win team that are that won before him and one
after him. It's like, congratulations. They had an owner who
was willing to pay the tax, and you know, it
was esthetically pleasing basketball and probably the best team in
(10:13):
the history of the sport. Very cool. But Yannis, fifteenth
overall pick skinny kid from Greece, goes to Milwaukee, signs
three contract extensions with team that drafts him. They build
a new arena because of his popularity, and he has
one of the great close out NBA Finals performances in
(10:33):
the history of the sport. To bring one title to Milwaukee,
to me, that is more like of a legendary title
than Katie's titles plural in Golden State. And I don't know,
I think that's kind of related to what you're talking about.
I don't want to live in a sports world where
Yannis's title doesn't happen. I'm fine with Golden State having
the dynasty, but I want Jokic to get his one.
(10:55):
I want Yannis to get his one, like I want
both to exist.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Certainly, I understood the Tim Tebow fascination because he was
winning all the time and there was a Christianity connection. Yeah,
the Chador thing is weird because he came from a
small program, didn't win a ton in college. There was
no religious connection. And I said, he reminds me of
(11:23):
LaMelo Ball. He's the first quarterback influencer where he's really
popular in places I don't go. I go to TV,
He's popular on ig or maybe Snapchat or all this stuff.
And I think the Dylan Gabriel early success is very explainable.
Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. He was more
(11:43):
ready than Shador. He also played in more of a
pro system at Oregon with pro players instead of Colorado.
So Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. When he
walked into that camp for the Browns to fancy, He's like, Oh,
this kid's unbelievable. I'm the whiteboard. He's unbelievable. But over
the course of time, Shoulder's talents greater, which I've always argued,
(12:03):
and over the course of time, Shadur ramped up, got
a lot of practices, and everybody went, that's the better guy.
So I don't think there was anything other than more
experienced college guy from a greater NFL ready program had
a clear advantage to start, but eventually talent wins. But
through it all, what we aren't talking about is Shade
(12:27):
does appear to be better than everybody in the NFL
thought because he was a fifth round quarterback, and Greg
Cosell came on my show this week and went, yeah,
the film said he was excellent and lost in all
of this is the most important position in the sport.
And because people didn't like some vibes, there's a franchise
(12:49):
quarterback in Cleveland and he'll be free for the next
four years. To me, that's unbelievable. I have all the
respect in the world for Greg Cosell.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I watched every throw that he had against Tennessee, UH,
and he was great. I thought that he made some
really impressive throws. I thought the the throw to in
Djoku for the touchdown, I thought, yes, I thought the
throw to fan In for the two point conversion. I thought,
I thought he dumped it off some where it felt
(13:20):
like he felt pressure and had pretty good just like
awareness around him. Like I thought there was a lot
of impressive things in that game against Tennessee. I still
think it's a little soon to say that he is
a franchise quarterback for beat for not beating the Titans,
Like it's just like he he didn't be getting excited,
(13:43):
he didn't beat the worst team in the league, and
now you've got him his Cleveland starter for the next
four years. I think that's a little premature because the
game where he came in off the bench against Baltimore,
he looked not like an NFL player. The game against
his only road game that's year is against the Raiders,
maybe the easiest spot to have a road game other
(14:05):
than Tennessee, and he was eleven for twenty for two
hundred yards, and he had a sixty six yard touchdown,
but sixty five of that was yack. It was a
dump off swing pass where the Raiders just didn't tackle.
And the Niners game, he was not good, and so like,
let's see because the Bears defense is not very good,
(14:26):
but they lead the league in takeaways.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But if I say, and also the Bears have a
stacked roster like Denver does, Shador has a bad roster
and he's being very productive with a terrible receiving corps,
like really bad receiving corps, Yes, and a coach.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Who seemingly doesn't like him, And so like, yeah, I
Shador has been better than I thought he was going
to be. But like, can we see how he plays
when it's gonna be five degrees below zero on the
windshield against the number one takeaway defense in the NFL? Like,
I just it's a little early for me to say
that if Cleveland has a top three pick, they're not
(15:03):
taking a quarterback, and if they I would take Mendoza
over him. But then he's not a cheap franchise quarterback
for the next four years. Like if he doesn't play
another game for Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well that's what I'm saying. I don't think they're gonna
get to Mendoza. I think Cleveland's too talent. They're gonna
win another game. I would take Mendoza over him. That's
not saying he's not a franchise quarterback. Mendoza, I think
is a pro bowler, very quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, and listen, Schadeur, I cannot imagine because think about
what NFL teams have overlooked, like how because thirty two
teams passed on him at least four times and some
teams like five or six times. And he is the
most accurate college quarterback ever and his father is one
(15:55):
of the greatest athletes this country has ever produced.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Top five.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So so, like, I don't believe it was a conspiracy.
I think there was real red flags there, and I
just I want to I need to like actions right
the NFL's actions, said Shedorf. Sanders is not an NFL quarterback.
His actions against Tennessee are saying no, no, no, no. I
(16:21):
absolutely am so now, I think it's actually interesting. I
think that prior to this, a lot of people were
acting completely foolish, and it was like they weren't wanting
to like confirm their confirmation bias of how they felt
about him going into the draft. Uh. And like you know,
mel Kiper on Draft night, I think shifted shaped a
(16:41):
lot of narratives and fame and people are tight with
Dion and I think there's a lot of factors at
play here. But I will admit, like now, it's interesting
like now now it did now to me. Now it
is all right, show what you can do, and I
can't wait for to explain it. But like next year,
(17:03):
Deshaun Watson's on that roster. No, gross, I agree with you.
But the owner of the Browns was at Deshaun Watson's
wedding this offseason, I know, and executed the worst trade
in NFL history and gave him a contract that apparently
made him a pariah among all of his billionaire friends
(17:24):
because they were all pissed that he gave him a
fully guaranteed deal. I'm thinking he might be a little
invested in that working out too, like it. So there's
going to be Shador will have to be great the
rest of this year for him to enter next year
not in a quarterback competition with a two hundred and
thirty million dollar guaranteed quarterback and another draft pick, maybe
(17:47):
not a first round pick, maybe not a top five pick.
But I think he's gonna have to be great to
not be in a serious quarterback competition next year.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
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Christmas Game Days almost here. Cowboys, Yeah, the Dallas Cowboys
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Minnesota Vikings at four thirty pm Eastern, live on Netflix
(19:44):
this Christmas. So if you look at year two Josh
Allen and Caleb Williams, Yeah, numbers are they're literally the same.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Oh, I've looked. It might be my screensaver.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So Josh Allen did get better. And I think Caleb
will overlooked in all of this is Buffalo has the
worst receiving core in the league right now, and Josh
is throwing to tight ends much easier throw. So his
completion percentage now is like, ooh, look at Drew Brees.
Look at six six Drew Brees. No, Josh is still
(20:26):
a playmaker. He's probably closer to a sixty five sixty
six percent if he was throwing the ball down the field, which,
by the way, Maholmes is to a Rice or Xavier Worthy.
He's throwing to tight ends because Kincaid.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Hawes, Yeah, Knox, Yeah, Knox.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
That I mean last week gave Davis, who they brought back,
had two catches. That was their go to. So I
think lost in Caleb Williams or under discussed not lost
is the fact that he may have made two of
the best throws of this season last week.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, the one is the keyst and the one that
comment yeah, I mean ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
One in the end zone is you. It's almost an
optical illusion when you watch it in real time. If
you watch it again in full speed, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So he got there. I was watching it. I was
watching it with Nick and I was like, tell me
if I'm being a prisoner of the moment. But like
he has the best arm in the NFL. I think
he does right, Like it's it's it doesn't Obviously that
doesn't mean you're the best it. Throwing it hard is not.
But like like to throw with velocity and accuracy on
the move, like that is just it's just it's preposterous.
(21:37):
It's it's it's it's it's him, Josh Allen. It's it's
a short list of guys.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So I guess this is my point. I think he's
a shorter Josh Allen. I think that's just camp. I
think he's a six to one Josh Allen. Everybody's like, well,
what is this? Everybody has comp and I'm like I
said it today on the Herd. I'm likes comp is
Josh Allen Like there is no ceiling for him. If
I told you best arm never gets hurt those very
(22:04):
few interceptions. By the way, probably the best runner right
now in the league at quarterback, now that Lamar has
scaled back, it's either Josh Allen or Caleb. And you
think this sounds crazy. I think Caleb is a shorter
Josh Allen.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I really do so. I still think I still think
it's Aaron Rodgers. I just the the shorter Josh Allen
is just gonna be tough for me because so much
of what Josh Allen does is like he's a polar bear,
like you know what I mean, He's people bounce off
him like Ben Roethlisberger. Uh, he will truck people. Not
(22:44):
that Caleb's not willing to truck people. He has like
he's because he's Caleb six' one, but he's strong, like
he's like six one, two thirty five, Like he's he's pretty,
he's pretty beefy two thirty whatever it is. But like
Rogers was six two and Caleb maybe this is also
just following everything the guys said. Since he's been a
(23:04):
probl like he's modeled his game after Rogers. Rogers is
his favorite player ever and to me, one of the
greatest quarterback seasons, Like I'm like the short list in
NFL history is Rogers's twenty eleven season when he had
forty five touchdowns and six picks, because if you look
(23:25):
at that season, it was like it wasn't a Brady surgical.
I'm just never throwing a risky play and we're gonna
have ten twelve fourteen play drives. It was like he's
top three in yards per attempt, Like he was chucking
the ball down the field and making big throws but
(23:48):
also not turning it over, like they were like deep
ball throws that weren't risky. It's crazy stuff, and I
think that's what Caleb can be like when he really
dials it in. He wants to use that arm and
throw it all over the place, and but he doesn't
throw picks, and so that is I still think the
(24:09):
absolute ceiling is the downfield aggressive assassin who doesn't turn
the ball over. And his mobility and escapability is crazy
because like Josh Allen can run, but he's not like
pure wetting out of you know, like like Caleb Williams
(24:31):
looks like I want Chicago to nickname him the one.
He looks like Neo in the matrix. He's like dodging bullets.
He was sacked sixty eight times last year, and people
said I was a homer for this opinion, but I
stand by it. I actually thought he had a pretty
good pocket presence. Like it's it's an insane thing to
(24:54):
say for a guy who took up had a top
five sax season in NFL history.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Well, Ben jon first thing he did, Jonah Jackson drew
Damon Joe Tooney. Yeah, it wasn't Caleb. It was the line.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, And and like it was, he was he was
trying to make plays like it wasn't like he was
dropping back to pass and getting blindsided and he didn't
see it coming. It was like the team sucks. It's
a ten game losing streak. I have three play callers,
my rookie year. Guys are dropping like flies all around me,
(25:27):
and I'm trying to make plays and he would get
he would get sack. Now, some of it was on him.
He held the ball too long. I think that's the
number that I think. It was on a Monday night
football broadcast, and it blew my mind. He took like
twenty eight sacks last year where he held the ball
for five or more seconds. That should be impossible. I
don't think Peyton Manning did it in his career, and
(25:48):
so like he he's definitely learned and Ben Johnson has
helped him. But he is an escape artist back there,
and sometimes it'll lead to a sack. That was seventeen
yards instead of eight yards like you know sometimes, but
he's really cut down on that this year. The completion
percentage is way too low. He he doesn't seem to
(26:10):
see it quite quick enough. Like the throw he missed
to comment was open. He just he saw it late
and underthrew it. Terrible combination and it was a game
ending interception. But like I am convinced that there is
a superstar there and that there is an MVP there,
and I think Ben Johnson's going to get there, Like
I think we've seen it before, like the Mahomes. It
(26:33):
was his first year starting, which made it so special,
but it was his second year and Andy Reid's system,
like we've seen the even if it's third year in
the league, but it's the second year in the system.
Like second year in the system is when you can
have the mastery of it. Like I think Caleb is
going to be a very trendy MVP pick next year.
I think he's going to have a monster season next
(26:56):
year with Ben Johnson and then we'll see what that
means for the rest of this year.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
All Right, I want to talk Pittsburgh. It was a
winner gets first place. Pittsburgh twenty seven, Baltimore twenty two.
I thought Mike Tomlin got a little lucky today because
I thought the tight end Isaiah likely. I thought that
was a touchdown. They reversed it. I would have called
if I was an official. I'm still not sure. I mean,
(27:20):
Pittsburgh surrendered four hundred and twenty yards, lost badly, time
of possession only at thirteen first downs. I thought Aaron
played pretty well for a forty two year old with
no run game on the road. DK metcaff and Aaron
had a really good day. It's what's interesting. The Steelers
still can't run the ball. Two point two yards of
carry and it felt like a reprieve. I think this
(27:43):
is why you got Aaron Rodgers. The defense isn't great.
They can't run the ball. I mean, the two guys
you went and got DK Metcaffe and Aaron Rodgers saved
your bacon today. Again, what did you make of the
likely non touchdown?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, I agree to Tony Romo, that's what are we doing.
I mean, that's it was a pretty clear touchdown. But
I also thought I thought the story of the game
is Lamar Jackson looks like a shell of himself, doesn't know,
I don't know what you know his percentage is, but
it's closer to fifty than it feels to seventy or eighty.
I mean, he looks not nearly now relative to his
(28:20):
standard looks slow. Clearly is just a little off. Still
makes a couple of plays, But I mean, I think
the guy that we've seen become just an all time
great player over you know, the prime of his career,
whatever the version is he's playing at now, is is
limiting him. I mean, you have that one awful pick
where typically that's a Lamar play lobbit right over a
(28:40):
guy when you're scrambling how many plays a scrambling around
you go from him to that Caleb scrambling around. It's
like they're playing at different speeds.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
No, I mean he is a Flowers andrews Henry. He's
got playmakers. We know, the coaching staff is fine. It's
I thought the final drive of the game by him,
it was just it just there was nothing to it.
I kind of feel like with Lamar Jackson, we've gotten
to a point where anything over fifteen yards I don't
(29:12):
necessarily trust him. I just don't think he's right. I mean,
that's my take on this and I've said it for weeks.
Brock Purdy, when I saw him on Monday night, throw
two picks and they were both behind the guy. I'm like, well,
he's not one hundred percent. I can tell I think
Lamar's hurt and he just doesn't want to mention it
because he's an athletic guy and he doesn't want to
give the defense who he plays a heads up. I mean,
(29:35):
these are not serious. I mean, neither one of these
teams can do anything in the playoffs. I mean, sometimes
you win a division and that's the best you can do.
I mean, Mike Tomlin's probably now the way Baltimore's playing Burrow,
you know, lost. I thought Cincinnati was going to win
that game. We'll talk about that. I thought Cincinnati had them,
and then Joe Burrow one of the few awful picks
(29:55):
of his life. I mean, Lamar was what nineteen thirty
five with a seventy two passer rating. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
One thing too is last year. Remember early on in
the season, the Ravens defense was terrible, and then they
figured something out and they became a lot better as
the season went on. Today, there was a moment it
was it was twenty to sixteen, and you know, the
Steelers were kind of back against the wall. You're like, God,
this thing's kind of gonna fall apart here, and Rogers
just a pretty I don't know, elementary play drops it
(30:26):
off to war and he walks in for a touchdown.
There's no one even around him. So it went from
twenty to sixteen to boom twenty seven to sixteen. And
the way that the Ravens are playing on offense, it's like,
I don't they're in trouble and they are just listening.
They dug themselves in the hole early in the season.
They don't look right and clear their quarterback's banged up,
and I listen, Rodgers is taking shots and everyone needs
(30:49):
to shut up about us, like you guys have been
losing game after game and looking terrible. So, I mean,
I don't know. I bet against him pretty big this week.
I had little to no faith in the Steelers, but
I thought today was as much of an indictment in
the Ravens just they're just not very good like the Steelers.
If they are the four seed playing whoever that they
end up drawing, I'd be stunned if they win a
(31:10):
playoff game and all these stories coming out the last
couple of days about Tomas contract set up like that
the Rooney. I think these things kind of being laid
out like there's you know, we're coming to the end
of the road.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
And I also think Kansas City doesn't feel the same.
But Kansas City was getting the Super Bowls. Baltimore wasn't
winning playoff games, and they feel less than that. Sober
Baltimore the previous two years has blown out more teams
than anybody in the sport. The Lions the previous two years,
and the Ravens have kicked a you know what out
of teams four to five times. Now Seattle's the team
(31:42):
this year that has beaten six teams by two touchdowns
or more. So, they're just something that's not right.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And to look at both those two teams, right, I mean,
they've had their moments. The Lions were the number one
seed last year. Two years ago, they had the Niners
up twenty four to seven at halftime in the NFC Championship.
Even to have a home field two years ago, lost
to the Chiefs. Last year, it's like they should beat
the Bills in the second round. They lose the game
kind of feels like they're little moments for both those
(32:09):
two teams.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Kind of shut Rams forty five Arizona seventeen. Rams had
over five hundred yards offense and almost nine yards of play.
Not competitive. Kuka Nakua was absolutely fantastic, so was Stafford.
The other thing about the Rams is they're healthy. They're
just dissecting teams. Arizona is a lost franchise. I mean,
(32:33):
you live in the state, I'm not sure bid Well
on down, it doesn't matter. It's a Do you have
any takeaway in that at all?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I mean the Cardinals got they are see some of
these jobs, you know, like the Titans, like people are
gonna people want to go be the head coach of
the Titans. Like the Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
They fire everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I guess it's the NFL, and it pays a lot
of money.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
These jobs are terrible.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I mean they are awful, and it just gets back
to ownership. You look, you look at this division now,
I mean, is there a better coach division with McVeagh,
McDonald and Kyle Shanahan. I mean it's like it's not
even close. It feels like it'd probably be Sean Payton,
Andy Reid and Jim Harbaugh. And that's where if you're
the Raiders.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Like, what do we do? How do we get up
to those three?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
And the interesting don't.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I think about this all the time. I was surprised
when Sean Payton took the job with Denver because I'm like,
oh my god, they're a mess. There's the Russell Wilson cap.
What the hell is he going to do? And you know,
Sean knew there was good there was some good college
quarterbacks coming up, and Sean has a lot of confidence
in himself. But and also you know, Andy Reid was
(33:38):
getting older and Mahomes was getting expensive, and but that
division now, I mean Mike McDonald and Sean McVay. Mike
McDonald reminds me of the defense of Sean McVay. And
then Shannan's probably the best scheme coach in the league,
so like Arizona's just I mean, that feels like you
can say what you want about Cleveland, but Pittsburgh's wobbly,
(33:59):
what's up with Lamar? Cincinnati's cheap. You know, you can
bang on Cleveland, but if Cleveland landed Mendoza or something
at quarterback, you'd be like, I think when the division easily.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Arizona's trapped, but Denver is a great example, right once
Walmart took over that franchise. Don't they have like four
kids that are in the top twenty of wealth in
the world. I mean, the money that they're dealing with
is on a different level than what ninety five percent
of NFL owners, Like, what does the Walmart family have
in common with Bob Kraft in terms of money? I
(34:33):
mean it is the levels we're talking. They are on
a very very short list as a family. I'm not
even talking as an individual, So I mean, the bidwells
are so cheap they're Listen, Jonathan Annon, I don't know
if he's good or bad, and it's hard to even tell,
but you hit your wagon to Kyler Murray and this
gets back to you know, he was the number one pick,
(34:54):
but it was still a little bit of a risk
for Ben Johnson to take that job. But it's pretty
clear Ben Johnson probably be good no matter if Ben
Johnson been the Raiders coach, might not be a playoff team.
But I guarantee you they're not two and whatever they are, right,
he's the real deal. But Vrabelnew like, I'm going back
you better have a quarterback because in this you could
put Mike Rabel with Theirs on a Cardinals. He's probably
not making the playoffs very often. So in this isn't
(35:17):
college where it's like, oh I just lose my quarterback
to the draft. We'll just go buy Fernando Mendoza. Right,
That's not the way it works. And now you hit
your wagon to Kyler Murray and you're in the situation
you're in where you got Jacobe Brissett running around there
down thirty points. It's like, what are we even doing?
And like the Rams game, there's no takeaway. I do
(35:39):
think though they you know, last week they lose the Panthers,
who sometimes you do that, you know, the West coast
to East coast flight. But the one thing the Panthers
can do, like they can throw the ball pretty well.
I mean, they got a couple of wide receivers and
they kind of expose their dB. So I do think
this was a little bit of a rallying spot of like,
hey man, we got a plus. You don't have any margin.
If you're the Rams, Seattle or the Fine that's right,
(36:01):
you probably got to win. Thirteen and four probably wins
you the division. So you know, a miss field goal here,
a screw up here. All of a sudden, you're the
sixth seed playing I don't know, Green Bay or something Axiet.
I mean, it could get a lot more difficult really quick.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Let's wrap it up with this. Minnesota thirty one, Washington nothing.
JJ McCarthy played well. Washington probably has, They've lost eight straight,
probably has the worst defense in the league. It may
not be particularly close. Almost every Washington defender on PFF
is like near the bottom of their position in the sport.
I thought I was JJ McCarthy's best game, sixteen to
(36:39):
twenty three, three tds, no picks that were very, very
good in the red zone. It was a smart game plan.
Then one of the things that really jumps out to
me now is Washington had three turnovers and they're just
a horrible franchise. A year after they shock the world,
Jayden Daniels got banged up again, and I'm sitting there
Washington when he's fringing on the field, and I'm like, man,
(37:03):
but if you go back to his rookie year, Remember
he got banged up in his rookie year, And I'm
sitting there thinking, if you told me in one year
he'd missed another eight nine games. I'd be like, I
wouldn't be shocked. There is value in like bo Nicks
doesn't get hurt, Caleb doesn't get hurt. Drake May got
(37:27):
beat up his first year. He blew tenaned it. It
doesn't miss games. Like the Jade and Daniel thing is
fascinating because it was the best rookie season statistically in
the history of the sport, and a year later physically,
I have real issues.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Yeah, I mean I think it's the knock on him
going back to LSU was the reckless nature in which
he played. And you look at Caleb and you look
at bo Nicks, well, they're kind of built physically a
little bit different than him. I mean, Caleb's built like
a tank. Drake May's big. You look at Jayden Daniels,
you know, he looks pretty slender. I tried to look
his way. I don't think he waded into the combine,
(38:04):
but he's just not He's not exactly built like you know,
Lamar's thickened up as he's gotten older. It is really important.
I also think Washington, you know, you get there, you
have success out of nowhere, and they went all in
on this season and it has backfired. I mean, if
you're a draft nerd, the two crazy things. Every time
(38:25):
I look up and Atlanta's down thirty, I go the
Rams have their first round pick, and for the Texans
traded Laramie Tunzel to Washington. They did it for a
third last draft and a second in this upcoming draft.
Well that pick for Washington could be like pick thirty five.
So the Texans all of a sudden, can you know
they haven't had picks because of the Will Anderson trade.
All of a sudden you get this great Washington pick.
(38:46):
I mean you look at the Rams and the Texans.
That's that's a big time ammo for those two teams.
And you know they're old, they're quarterbacks, banged up a lot.
They have some explosive playmaker. Zach Ertz shattered his leg today.
You know, defense is just atrocious though, I mean it's
really bad. And this you know, one story I saw
today is Sirianni's getting more involved with the offense. Well,
(39:08):
it's like Dan Campbell, Okay, my offensive coordinator is bad.
I need to get more involved than what happens. They
look more explosive, So I got listen. I give Dan credit.
That's he's an offensive guy. Siriana, you're an offensive guy
Monday night, your offense should look better. Dan Quinn's a
defensive guy. I just watched him for years. Helped turn
Jerry's team into a twelve win team. Remember how good
they were on defense with Micah Parsons and Dan Quinn.
(39:31):
How I get your personnel's bad, but you should be
a little bit. You made JJ McCarthy, who statistically was
the worst quarterback since JaMarcus Russell, actually looked pretty good today.
I mean it's hard to argue, right, he looked, he
looked better and like a lot of these other young
quarterbacks throughout the league. So I think if you're Washington,
you're going God. Maybe that last year was It almost
(39:53):
feels a little bit like the Giants that year when
they made the playoffs and they beat Minnesota, and then
the next three years were just a train wreck. Could
be different because of Jayden Daniels. But if you can't
stay on the field, who cares? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (40:04):
No, I mean if you start looking at the teams
that consistently make the playoffs, like we thought Houston, ooh
what happened to Houston? Well, Houston's a good football team now,
like Demiko Ryan's defense and the guys upstairs drafting. You know,
we always kind of look at Houston like, I don't know,
like Jacksonville. Well, say what you want, but I watched
Jacksonville today, Like, Jacksonville's got a lot of good players.
(40:26):
They've hit on a lot of those draft picks. Travis
Hunter is not even a factor. They're there. They got
two backs, they got two ends. So there are these
outlier seasons, John, where a team just gets hot, the
division's weak, you know, and I you know that gets hurt.
The Cowboys are bad, the Giants are worse. They didn't
have Jackson Dard. It's I don't know. I look at
(40:48):
Washington and I'm like, they need nine more players. They
need so many more players there, and this, Hey, good
for JJ. He needed a game like this again. They ran,
they passed, They just you can just watch football. You
watch Seattle's defense, You're like, damn, they're fast. You like Washington.
They can't bully, they can't run, they can't cover, They're awful.
(41:10):
It's just a they got very few good players.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Netflix is
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Then at four point thirty you've got the Lions struggling
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The NFL Christmas Day games live on Netflix starting at
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The whole family can enjoy, open some gifts, grab some food,
settle in and watch NFL live on Netflix Christmas Day
starting at one pm Eastern time. So Danny Parkins is
(00:52):
joining me. You know, I'm from First Things First. And
if our camera angle looks a little weird this week,
it's a long story, but you're gonna have to deal
with it. Well that's just technicoh to you, that's finest.
So I had this rant today on my show, and
this has been a pretty consistent thing for thirty years
in the business that there is no even so, just
(01:15):
own dynasties. They're coming and they're going to come in
different forms. When the Lakers dominated forever, it wasn't that
they always paid the most. It's because Jerry Buss was
cool and the Laker girls were cool, and the weather
in the winter in a winter league was great, and
so people liked playing there. And then pat Riley went
to the Miami Heat and he sold the same thing.
(01:35):
Miami's cool. Miami's got perfect winter weather. So they won
on weather cool, not the most money. Duke basketball won
on resume and Mike Krzyzewski and il By the way,
now Indiana football's got better financing than most of the country.
Is it unfair? There is no even so. Oklahoma City
(01:57):
is not only twenty four and one, but analytically the
best defensive team ever they are. I mean, they're blowing
people out for two years now. The playoffs are different, right,
but they're going to have three first round picks this
year and could win the lottery, could have the number
one pick. And if you look at their egoists roster,
their coach, their GM, their bench, which is maybe the
deepest ever. They could have a five year run. Their
(02:18):
advantage has simply been they're smarter, they're more efficient, and
the new CBA, I would argue, is more putative to
ineffective gms. It punishes them more. I'll throw one more
stat at you. In nineteen eighty nine, the richest people
in the world had one point three trillion dollars. They
now have seventeen times that. Okay, seven different presidents. The
(02:38):
point is you can't legislate fair or even even socialism
doesn't perfectly work, and that when I look at OKC
and I look at the Dodgers, at least the Dodgers
are an interesting dynasty. At least they're doing it. Money
is their advantage and deferring payments. But it's watchable, okay,
seed to analytics, it's terribly boring. And that Adam Silver
(03:01):
wants everybody he wants parody, and I think it's idealistic
when the truth is you can't stop dynasties in golf, tennis,
skiing women's basketball. It doesn't matter. It's gender free.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And that.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Baseball and the NBA should both both should embrace the
money aspect. Players want to play in certain cities people
want to live in certain cities. They don't want to
live in Kansas City. They want to live in New York,
in LA and Boston and Chicago. And so when I
(03:38):
watch Oklahoma City's dominant dominance, I say, well, at least
the Dodgers dynasty. You just don't like that. It's money.
At least it's captivating, at least it's interesting. So I
know you don't agree with that I laid out my
but my take is the NBA, of all the pro leagues,
everything is going up. Nil has made the reter richer. Right,
everything's going up. Basketball is not because got parody and
(04:03):
nobody really truly wants parody, nor is it good for
the business model.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, I don't know if we're dealing with a little
bit of causation correlation there. Like you think that basketball's
ratings are not going up because of of parody. I
think ratings were up in Kansas City for the Royals
when they were good. They were down when they were
(04:28):
down when they're bad. Generally speaking, Like, my guess is
the Oklahoma City Thunder's local ratings are very good. Great,
that would be my guess, right, And so like, do
the Thunder have a fan base that is national or international.
Obviously not. So if a dynasty, because of Sam Presty's genius,
(04:53):
happens to take place in Oklahoma City, will that have
the appeal for basketball that a dynasty in LA and
the Dodgers, one of the most famous brands in all
of global sports has for baseball. Of course not. But
like if it was flipped and the analytically brilliant thing
that you called boring in basketball happened to be occurring
(05:17):
for the Bulls or the Celtics or the next my
guess is the ratings would be up. And if the
thing that the team that like happened to have the
best local TV deal in baseball was a small market
brand that people didn't care about, I don't think the
ratings would be up that way. Like I think it's
I think it's the Dodgers that is. It's captivating because
(05:40):
it's the Dodgers, and it's boring quote unquote to people
because it's Oklahoma City. Not necessarily because dynasty. I agree
with you, Dynasties generally speaking drive interest, like yeah, the Patriots,
the Chiefs, the Warriors, the Dodgers like, but the Spurs
when they were a dynasty weren't slaying it in national
(06:00):
TV ratings because it was San Antonio. So I don't
I don't know that I agree that. I think it's
like dynasty and brand drives ratings, unless in football, where
everything rates. Right, Yeah, so I guess, I guess basketball
and baseball, I do think it's more brand dependent.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Well, I think, I guess. My My ultimate point is
stop worrying about tanking and stop worrying about dynasties. Players
want to play where they want to play. There's too
many franchises, there's greed all over sports from the ownership position,
and I think we worry way too much about, you know, tanking.
The NBA has become to me kind of fear based
(06:43):
on this, Like they want to tell you it's a
player first league, but then they limit where players can go.
Whoever drafts them, whatever, you know, morbid, boring, bad team
drafts them. You are punished forever wanting to go play
where you'd want to live in the winter. You're punished,
(07:04):
right like a Sacramento No player wants to live in Sacramento.
Most don't want to live in Salt Lake City. But
you're punished economically if you're going like I'm gonna go
live in Miami or I'm gonna go live in where Chicago.
You're punished.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
But if they didn't have those rules, Yeah, is there
any way for Milwaukee and Oklahoma City to win?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, Oklahoma City's doing it now well.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
But but no, but they had any But they had
an advantage for Shay to re sign. Shae was in.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
He's a he's a low ego, low publicity star. He
doesn't care like he's a guy that would be like, yeah,
I can make a little bit more money here, but
it's so swayed. You can make so much more if
you stay that what young man who grew up with
average means is going to turn down two hundred million dollars,
(07:54):
So you actually become a prisoner of where you get drafted.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Listen, if we want to have a conversation about like
drafts in general not being great for like labor in
the workforce, I think that applies to all of the sports. Right,
Like like my my brother in law graduates from Purdue
Computer Engineering, and he had offers from different places, right,
(08:18):
and he could choose, and he got to choose, and
he chose very he chose well, like, you know, the
kid works in Nvidia, and like it's gone well for him,
Like could could have could have ended up at Hewlett Packard,
would have been fine, but the dividend wouldn't be as good.
But so yeah, like he had options, he wasn't drafted
to in Vidia. He chose in Vidio, right, So I
(08:39):
obviously agree that that is anti capitalistic on American all
of those things, but I don't think that. I do
think that sports would in general, Like we can talk
specific Dodgers, specific Thunder specific any point in time, I
do think they in general would be less interesting if
(09:01):
the Lakers and the Heat won every NBA Championship, the
Dodgers and the Yankees won every World Series, and you know,
on and on down the line, if only the big
cities and only the big brands ever won, I do
think it would be less interesting. We do like David
and Goliath. It is a pretty popular narrative that's built.
And like I also would say like Yannis's title in
(09:26):
Milwaukee as just a basketball fan, and again, I'm watching
all of them, right, I'm watching all of them. I
would argue that Yannis, like not all titles are created equal.
I think We've talked about this, like in terms of
how I view them. Like Katie hates this argument, but
I will contend that it is fair and logical. His
titles plural in Golden State are not as impressive as
(09:51):
Yannis's singular title in Milwaukee because Katie, because the cap
spiked in an abnormal and he joins a seventy three
win team that are that won before him and one
after him. It's like, congratulations. They had an owner who
was willing to pay the tax, and you know, it
was esthetically pleasing basketball and probably the best team in
(10:13):
the history of the sport. Very cool. But Yannis, fifteenth
overall pick skinny kid from Greece, goes to Milwaukee, signs
three contract extensions with team that drafts him. They build
a new arena because of his popularity, and he has
one of the great close out NBA Finals performances in
(10:33):
the history of the sport. To bring one title to Milwaukee,
to me, that is more like of a legendary title
than Katie's titles plural in Golden State. And I don't know,
I think that's kind of related to what you're talking about.
I don't want to live in a sports world where
Yannis's title doesn't happen. I'm fine with Golden State having
the dynasty, but I want Jokic to get his one.
(10:55):
I want Yannis to get his one, like I want
both to exist.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Certainly, I understood the Tim Tebow fascination because he was
winning all the time and there was a Christianity connection. Yeah,
the Chador thing is weird because he came from a
small program, didn't win a ton in college. There was
no religious connection. And I said, he reminds me of
(11:23):
LaMelo Ball. He's the first quarterback influencer where he's really
popular in places I don't go. I go to TV,
He's popular on ig or maybe Snapchat or all this stuff.
And I think the Dylan Gabriel early success is very explainable.
Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. He was more
(11:43):
ready than Shador. He also played in more of a
pro system at Oregon with pro players instead of Colorado.
So Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. When he
walked into that camp for the Browns to fancy, He's like, Oh,
this kid's unbelievable. I'm the whiteboard. He's unbelievable. But over
the course of time, Shoulder's talents greater, which I've always argued,
(12:03):
and over the course of time, Shadur ramped up, got
a lot of practices, and everybody went, that's the better guy.
So I don't think there was anything other than more
experienced college guy from a greater NFL ready program had
a clear advantage to start, but eventually talent wins. But
through it all, what we aren't talking about is Shade
(12:27):
does appear to be better than everybody in the NFL
thought because he was a fifth round quarterback, and Greg
Cosell came on my show this week and went, yeah,
the film said he was excellent and lost in all
of this is the most important position in the sport.
And because people didn't like some vibes, there's a franchise
(12:49):
quarterback in Cleveland and he'll be free for the next
four years. To me, that's unbelievable. I have all the
respect in the world for Greg Cosell.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I watched every throw that he had against Tennessee, UH,
and he was great. I thought that he made some
really impressive throws. I thought the the throw to in
Djoku for the touchdown, I thought, yes, I thought the
throw to fan In for the two point conversion. I thought,
I thought he dumped it off some where it felt
(13:20):
like he felt pressure and had pretty good just like
awareness around him. Like I thought there was a lot
of impressive things in that game against Tennessee. I still
think it's a little soon to say that he is
a franchise quarterback for beat for not beating the Titans,
Like it's just like he he didn't be getting excited,
(13:43):
he didn't beat the worst team in the league, and
now you've got him his Cleveland starter for the next
four years. I think that's a little premature because the
game where he came in off the bench against Baltimore,
he looked not like an NFL player. The game against
his only road game that's year is against the Raiders,
maybe the easiest spot to have a road game other
(14:05):
than Tennessee, and he was eleven for twenty for two
hundred yards, and he had a sixty six yard touchdown,
but sixty five of that was yack. It was a
dump off swing pass where the Raiders just didn't tackle.
And the Niners game, he was not good, and so like,
let's see because the Bears defense is not very good,
(14:26):
but they lead the league in takeaways.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But if I say, and also the Bears have a
stacked roster like Denver does, Shador has a bad roster
and he's being very productive with a terrible receiving corps,
like really bad receiving corps, Yes, and a coach.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Who seemingly doesn't like him, And so like, yeah, I
Shador has been better than I thought he was going
to be. But like, can we see how he plays
when it's gonna be five degrees below zero on the
windshield against the number one takeaway defense in the NFL? Like,
I just it's a little early for me to say
that if Cleveland has a top three pick, they're not
(15:03):
taking a quarterback, and if they I would take Mendoza
over him. But then he's not a cheap franchise quarterback
for the next four years. Like if he doesn't play
another game for Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well that's what I'm saying. I don't think they're gonna
get to Mendoza. I think Cleveland's too talent. They're gonna
win another game. I would take Mendoza over him. That's
not saying he's not a franchise quarterback. Mendoza, I think
is a pro bowler, very quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, and listen, Schadeur, I cannot imagine because think about
what NFL teams have overlooked, like how because thirty two
teams passed on him at least four times and some
teams like five or six times. And he is the
most accurate college quarterback ever and his father is one
(15:55):
of the greatest athletes this country has ever produced.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Top five.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So so, like, I don't believe it was a conspiracy.
I think there was real red flags there, and I
just I want to I need to like actions right
the NFL's actions, said Shedorf. Sanders is not an NFL quarterback.
His actions against Tennessee are saying no, no, no, no. I
(16:21):
absolutely am so now, I think it's actually interesting. I
think that prior to this, a lot of people were
acting completely foolish, and it was like they weren't wanting
to like confirm their confirmation bias of how they felt
about him going into the draft. Uh. And like you know,
mel Kiper on Draft night, I think shifted shaped a
(16:41):
lot of narratives and fame and people are tight with
Dion and I think there's a lot of factors at
play here. But I will admit, like now, it's interesting
like now now it did now to me. Now it
is all right, show what you can do, and I
can't wait for to explain it. But like next year,
(17:03):
Deshaun Watson's on that roster. No, gross, I agree with you.
But the owner of the Browns was at Deshaun Watson's
wedding this offseason, I know, and executed the worst trade
in NFL history and gave him a contract that apparently
made him a pariah among all of his billionaire friends
(17:24):
because they were all pissed that he gave him a
fully guaranteed deal. I'm thinking he might be a little
invested in that working out too, like it. So there's
going to be Shador will have to be great the
rest of this year for him to enter next year
not in a quarterback competition with a two hundred and
thirty million dollar guaranteed quarterback and another draft pick, maybe
(17:47):
not a first round pick, maybe not a top five pick.
But I think he's gonna have to be great to
not be in a serious quarterback competition next year.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
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Christmas Game Days almost here. Cowboys, Yeah, the Dallas Cowboys
and the Washington Commanders at one Eastern, Detroit Lions and
Minnesota Vikings at four thirty pm Eastern, live on Netflix
(19:44):
this Christmas. So if you look at year two Josh
Allen and Caleb Williams, Yeah, numbers are they're literally the same.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Oh, I've looked. It might be my screensaver.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So Josh Allen did get better. And I think Caleb
will overlooked in all of this is Buffalo has the
worst receiving core in the league right now, and Josh
is throwing to tight ends much easier throw. So his
completion percentage now is like, ooh, look at Drew Brees.
Look at six six Drew Brees. No, Josh is still
(20:26):
a playmaker. He's probably closer to a sixty five sixty
six percent if he was throwing the ball down the field, which,
by the way, Maholmes is to a Rice or Xavier Worthy.
He's throwing to tight ends because Kincaid.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Hawes, Yeah, Knox, Yeah, Knox.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
That I mean last week gave Davis, who they brought back,
had two catches. That was their go to. So I
think lost in Caleb Williams or under discussed not lost
is the fact that he may have made two of
the best throws of this season last week.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, the one is the keyst and the one that
comment yeah, I mean ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
One in the end zone is you. It's almost an
optical illusion when you watch it in real time. If
you watch it again in full speed, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So he got there. I was watching it. I was
watching it with Nick and I was like, tell me
if I'm being a prisoner of the moment. But like
he has the best arm in the NFL. I think
he does right, Like it's it's it doesn't Obviously that
doesn't mean you're the best it. Throwing it hard is not.
But like like to throw with velocity and accuracy on
the move, like that is just it's just it's preposterous.
(21:37):
It's it's it's it's it's him, Josh Allen. It's it's
a short list of guys.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
So I guess this is my point. I think he's
a shorter Josh Allen. I think that's just camp. I
think he's a six to one Josh Allen. Everybody's like, well,
what is this? Everybody has comp and I'm like I
said it today on the Herd. I'm likes comp is
Josh Allen Like there is no ceiling for him. If
I told you best arm never gets hurt those very
(22:04):
few interceptions. By the way, probably the best runner right
now in the league at quarterback, now that Lamar has
scaled back, it's either Josh Allen or Caleb. And you
think this sounds crazy. I think Caleb is a shorter
Josh Allen.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I really do so. I still think I still think
it's Aaron Rodgers. I just the the shorter Josh Allen
is just gonna be tough for me because so much
of what Josh Allen does is like he's a polar bear,
like you know what I mean, He's people bounce off
him like Ben Roethlisberger. Uh, he will truck people. Not
(22:44):
that Caleb's not willing to truck people. He has like
he's because he's Caleb six' one, but he's strong, like
he's like six one, two thirty five, Like he's he's pretty,
he's pretty beefy two thirty whatever it is. But like
Rogers was six two and Caleb maybe this is also
just following everything the guys said. Since he's been a
(23:04):
probl like he's modeled his game after Rogers. Rogers is
his favorite player ever and to me, one of the
greatest quarterback seasons, Like I'm like the short list in
NFL history is Rogers's twenty eleven season when he had
forty five touchdowns and six picks, because if you look
(23:25):
at that season, it was like it wasn't a Brady surgical.
I'm just never throwing a risky play and we're gonna
have ten twelve fourteen play drives. It was like he's
top three in yards per attempt, Like he was chucking
the ball down the field and making big throws but
(23:48):
also not turning it over, like they were like deep
ball throws that weren't risky. It's crazy stuff, and I
think that's what Caleb can be like when he really
dials it in. He wants to use that arm and
throw it all over the place, and but he doesn't
throw picks, and so that is I still think the
(24:09):
absolute ceiling is the downfield aggressive assassin who doesn't turn
the ball over. And his mobility and escapability is crazy
because like Josh Allen can run, but he's not like
pure wetting out of you know, like like Caleb Williams
(24:31):
looks like I want Chicago to nickname him the one.
He looks like Neo in the matrix. He's like dodging bullets.
He was sacked sixty eight times last year, and people
said I was a homer for this opinion, but I
stand by it. I actually thought he had a pretty
good pocket presence. Like it's it's an insane thing to
(24:54):
say for a guy who took up had a top
five sax season in NFL history.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Well, Ben jon first thing he did, Jonah Jackson drew
Damon Joe Tooney. Yeah, it wasn't Caleb. It was the line.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yeah, And and like it was, he was he was
trying to make plays like it wasn't like he was
dropping back to pass and getting blindsided and he didn't
see it coming. It was like the team sucks. It's
a ten game losing streak. I have three play callers,
my rookie year. Guys are dropping like flies all around me,
(25:27):
and I'm trying to make plays and he would get
he would get sack. Now, some of it was on him.
He held the ball too long. I think that's the
number that I think. It was on a Monday night
football broadcast, and it blew my mind. He took like
twenty eight sacks last year where he held the ball
for five or more seconds. That should be impossible. I
don't think Peyton Manning did it in his career, and
(25:48):
so like he he's definitely learned and Ben Johnson has
helped him. But he is an escape artist back there,
and sometimes it'll lead to a sack. That was seventeen
yards instead of eight yards like you know sometimes, but
he's really cut down on that this year. The completion
percentage is way too low. He he doesn't seem to
(26:10):
see it quite quick enough. Like the throw he missed
to comment was open. He just he saw it late
and underthrew it. Terrible combination and it was a game
ending interception. But like I am convinced that there is
a superstar there and that there is an MVP there,
and I think Ben Johnson's going to get there, Like
I think we've seen it before, like the Mahomes. It
(26:33):
was his first year starting, which made it so special,
but it was his second year and Andy Reid's system,
like we've seen the even if it's third year in
the league, but it's the second year in the system.
Like second year in the system is when you can
have the mastery of it. Like I think Caleb is
going to be a very trendy MVP pick next year.
I think he's going to have a monster season next
(26:56):
year with Ben Johnson and then we'll see what that
means for the rest of this year.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
All Right, I want to talk Pittsburgh. It was a
winner gets first place. Pittsburgh twenty seven, Baltimore twenty two.
I thought Mike Tomlin got a little lucky today because
I thought the tight end Isaiah likely. I thought that
was a touchdown. They reversed it. I would have called
if I was an official. I'm still not sure. I mean,
(27:20):
Pittsburgh surrendered four hundred and twenty yards, lost badly, time
of possession only at thirteen first downs. I thought Aaron
played pretty well for a forty two year old with
no run game on the road. DK metcaff and Aaron
had a really good day. It's what's interesting. The Steelers
still can't run the ball. Two point two yards of
carry and it felt like a reprieve. I think this
(27:43):
is why you got Aaron Rodgers. The defense isn't great.
They can't run the ball. I mean, the two guys
you went and got DK Metcaffe and Aaron Rodgers saved
your bacon today. Again, what did you make of the
likely non touchdown?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, I agree to Tony Romo, that's what are we doing.
I mean, that's it was a pretty clear touchdown. But
I also thought I thought the story of the game
is Lamar Jackson looks like a shell of himself, doesn't know,
I don't know what you know his percentage is, but
it's closer to fifty than it feels to seventy or eighty.
I mean, he looks not nearly now relative to his
(28:20):
standard looks slow. Clearly is just a little off. Still
makes a couple of plays, But I mean, I think
the guy that we've seen become just an all time
great player over you know, the prime of his career,
whatever the version is he's playing at now, is is
limiting him. I mean, you have that one awful pick
where typically that's a Lamar play lobbit right over a
(28:40):
guy when you're scrambling how many plays a scrambling around
you go from him to that Caleb scrambling around. It's
like they're playing at different speeds.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
No, I mean he is a Flowers andrews Henry. He's
got playmakers. We know, the coaching staff is fine. It's
I thought the final drive of the game by him,
it was just it just there was nothing to it.
I kind of feel like with Lamar Jackson, we've gotten
to a point where anything over fifteen yards I don't
(29:12):
necessarily trust him. I just don't think he's right. I mean,
that's my take on this and I've said it for weeks.
Brock Purdy, when I saw him on Monday night, throw
two picks and they were both behind the guy. I'm like, well,
he's not one hundred percent. I can tell I think
Lamar's hurt and he just doesn't want to mention it
because he's an athletic guy and he doesn't want to
give the defense who he plays a heads up. I mean,
(29:35):
these are not serious. I mean, neither one of these
teams can do anything in the playoffs. I mean, sometimes
you win a division and that's the best you can do.
I mean, Mike Tomlin's probably now the way Baltimore's playing Burrow,
you know, lost. I thought Cincinnati was going to win
that game. We'll talk about that. I thought Cincinnati had them,
and then Joe Burrow one of the few awful picks
(29:55):
of his life. I mean, Lamar was what nineteen thirty
five with a seventy two passer rating. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
One thing too is last year. Remember early on in
the season, the Ravens defense was terrible, and then they
figured something out and they became a lot better as
the season went on. Today, there was a moment it
was it was twenty to sixteen, and you know, the
Steelers were kind of back against the wall. You're like, God,
this thing's kind of gonna fall apart here, and Rogers
just a pretty I don't know, elementary play drops it
(30:26):
off to war and he walks in for a touchdown.
There's no one even around him. So it went from
twenty to sixteen to boom twenty seven to sixteen. And
the way that the Ravens are playing on offense, it's like,
I don't they're in trouble and they are just listening.
They dug themselves in the hole early in the season.
They don't look right and clear their quarterback's banged up,
and I listen, Rodgers is taking shots and everyone needs
(30:49):
to shut up about us, like you guys have been
losing game after game and looking terrible. So, I mean,
I don't know. I bet against him pretty big this week.
I had little to no faith in the Steelers, but
I thought today was as much of an indictment in
the Ravens just they're just not very good like the Steelers.
If they are the four seed playing whoever that they
end up drawing, I'd be stunned if they win a
(31:10):
playoff game and all these stories coming out the last
couple of days about Tomas contract set up like that
the Rooney. I think these things kind of being laid
out like there's you know, we're coming to the end
of the road.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
And I also think Kansas City doesn't feel the same.
But Kansas City was getting the Super Bowls. Baltimore wasn't
winning playoff games, and they feel less than that. Sober
Baltimore the previous two years has blown out more teams
than anybody in the sport. The Lions the previous two years,
and the Ravens have kicked a you know what out
of teams four to five times. Now Seattle's the team
(31:42):
this year that has beaten six teams by two touchdowns
or more. So, they're just something that's not right.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And to look at both those two teams, right, I mean,
they've had their moments. The Lions were the number one
seed last year. Two years ago, they had the Niners
up twenty four to seven at halftime in the NFC Championship.
Even to have a home field two years ago, lost
to the Chiefs. Last year, it's like they should beat
the Bills in the second round. They lose the game
kind of feels like they're little moments for both those
(32:09):
two teams.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Kind of shut Rams forty five Arizona seventeen. Rams had
over five hundred yards offense and almost nine yards of play.
Not competitive. Kuka Nakua was absolutely fantastic, so was Stafford.
The other thing about the Rams is they're healthy. They're
just dissecting teams. Arizona is a lost franchise. I mean,
(32:33):
you live in the state, I'm not sure bid Well
on down, it doesn't matter. It's a Do you have
any takeaway in that at all?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I mean the Cardinals got they are see some of
these jobs, you know, like the Titans, like people are
gonna people want to go be the head coach of
the Titans. Like the Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
They fire everybody.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I guess it's the NFL, and it pays a lot
of money.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
These jobs are terrible.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I mean they are awful, and it just gets back
to ownership. You look, you look at this division now,
I mean, is there a better coach division with McVeagh,
McDonald and Kyle Shanahan. I mean it's like it's not
even close. It feels like it'd probably be Sean Payton,
Andy Reid and Jim Harbaugh. And that's where if you're
the Raiders.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Like, what do we do? How do we get up
to those three?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
And the interesting don't.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I think about this all the time. I was surprised
when Sean Payton took the job with Denver because I'm like,
oh my god, they're a mess. There's the Russell Wilson cap.
What the hell is he going to do? And you know,
Sean knew there was good there was some good college
quarterbacks coming up, and Sean has a lot of confidence
in himself. But and also you know, Andy Reid was
(33:38):
getting older and Mahomes was getting expensive, and but that
division now, I mean Mike McDonald and Sean McVay. Mike
McDonald reminds me of the defense of Sean McVay. And
then Shannan's probably the best scheme coach in the league,
so like Arizona's just I mean, that feels like you
can say what you want about Cleveland, but Pittsburgh's wobbly,
(33:59):
what's up with Lamar? Cincinnati's cheap. You know, you can
bang on Cleveland, but if Cleveland landed Mendoza or something
at quarterback, you'd be like, I think when the division easily.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Arizona's trapped, but Denver is a great example, right once
Walmart took over that franchise. Don't they have like four
kids that are in the top twenty of wealth in
the world. I mean, the money that they're dealing with
is on a different level than what ninety five percent
of NFL owners, Like, what does the Walmart family have
in common with Bob Kraft in terms of money? I
(34:33):
mean it is the levels we're talking. They are on
a very very short list as a family. I'm not
even talking as an individual, So I mean, the bidwells
are so cheap they're Listen, Jonathan Annon, I don't know
if he's good or bad, and it's hard to even tell,
but you hit your wagon to Kyler Murray and this
gets back to you know, he was the number one pick,
(34:54):
but it was still a little bit of a risk
for Ben Johnson to take that job. But it's pretty
clear Ben Johnson probably be good no matter if Ben
Johnson been the Raiders coach, might not be a playoff team.
But I guarantee you they're not two and whatever they are, right,
he's the real deal. But Vrabelnew like, I'm going back
you better have a quarterback because in this you could
put Mike Rabel with Theirs on a Cardinals. He's probably
not making the playoffs very often. So in this isn't
(35:17):
college where it's like, oh I just lose my quarterback
to the draft. We'll just go buy Fernando Mendoza. Right,
That's not the way it works. And now you hit
your wagon to Kyler Murray and you're in the situation
you're in where you got Jacobe Brissett running around there
down thirty points. It's like, what are we even doing?
And like the Rams game, there's no takeaway. I do
(35:39):
think though they you know, last week they lose the Panthers,
who sometimes you do that, you know, the West coast
to East coast flight. But the one thing the Panthers
can do, like they can throw the ball pretty well.
I mean, they got a couple of wide receivers and
they kind of expose their dB. So I do think
this was a little bit of a rallying spot of like,
hey man, we got a plus. You don't have any margin.
If you're the Rams, Seattle or the Fine that's right,
(36:01):
you probably got to win. Thirteen and four probably wins
you the division. So you know, a miss field goal here,
a screw up here. All of a sudden, you're the
sixth seed playing I don't know, Green Bay or something Axiet.
I mean, it could get a lot more difficult really quick.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Let's wrap it up with this. Minnesota thirty one, Washington nothing.
JJ McCarthy played well. Washington probably has, They've lost eight straight,
probably has the worst defense in the league. It may
not be particularly close. Almost every Washington defender on PFF
is like near the bottom of their position in the sport.
I thought I was JJ McCarthy's best game, sixteen to
(36:39):
twenty three, three tds, no picks that were very, very
good in the red zone. It was a smart game plan.
Then one of the things that really jumps out to
me now is Washington had three turnovers and they're just
a horrible franchise. A year after they shock the world,
Jayden Daniels got banged up again, and I'm sitting there
Washington when he's fringing on the field, and I'm like, man,
(37:03):
but if you go back to his rookie year, Remember
he got banged up in his rookie year, And I'm
sitting there thinking, if you told me in one year
he'd missed another eight nine games. I'd be like, I
wouldn't be shocked. There is value in like bo Nicks
doesn't get hurt, Caleb doesn't get hurt. Drake May got
(37:27):
beat up his first year. He blew tenaned it. It
doesn't miss games. Like the Jade and Daniel thing is
fascinating because it was the best rookie season statistically in
the history of the sport, and a year later physically,
I have real issues.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Yeah, I mean I think it's the knock on him
going back to LSU was the reckless nature in which
he played. And you look at Caleb and you look
at bo Nicks, well, they're kind of built physically a
little bit different than him. I mean, Caleb's built like
a tank. Drake May's big. You look at Jayden Daniels,
you know, he looks pretty slender. I tried to look
his way. I don't think he waded into the combine,
(38:04):
but he's just not He's not exactly built like you know,
Lamar's thickened up as he's gotten older. It is really important.
I also think Washington, you know, you get there, you
have success out of nowhere, and they went all in
on this season and it has backfired. I mean, if
you're a draft nerd, the two crazy things. Every time
(38:25):
I look up and Atlanta's down thirty, I go the
Rams have their first round pick, and for the Texans
traded Laramie Tunzel to Washington. They did it for a
third last draft and a second in this upcoming draft.
Well that pick for Washington could be like pick thirty five.
So the Texans all of a sudden, can you know
they haven't had picks because of the Will Anderson trade.
All of a sudden you get this great Washington pick.
(38:46):
I mean you look at the Rams and the Texans.
That's that's a big time ammo for those two teams.
And you know they're old, they're quarterbacks, banged up a lot.
They have some explosive playmaker. Zach Ertz shattered his leg today.
You know, defense is just atrocious though, I mean it's
really bad. And this you know, one story I saw
today is Sirianni's getting more involved with the offense. Well,
(39:08):
it's like Dan Campbell, Okay, my offensive coordinator is bad.
I need to get more involved than what happens. They
look more explosive, So I got listen. I give Dan credit.
That's he's an offensive guy. Siriana, you're an offensive guy
Monday night, your offense should look better. Dan Quinn's a
defensive guy. I just watched him for years. Helped turn
Jerry's team into a twelve win team. Remember how good
they were on defense with Micah Parsons and Dan Quinn.
(39:31):
How I get your personnel's bad, but you should be
a little bit. You made JJ McCarthy, who statistically was
the worst quarterback since JaMarcus Russell, actually looked pretty good today.
I mean it's hard to argue, right, he looked, he
looked better and like a lot of these other young
quarterbacks throughout the league. So I think if you're Washington,
you're going God. Maybe that last year was It almost
(39:53):
feels a little bit like the Giants that year when
they made the playoffs and they beat Minnesota, and then
the next three years were just a train wreck. Could
be different because of Jayden Daniels. But if you can't
stay on the field, who cares? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (40:04):
No, I mean if you start looking at the teams
that consistently make the playoffs, like we thought Houston, ooh
what happened to Houston? Well, Houston's a good football team now,
like Demiko Ryan's defense and the guys upstairs drafting. You know,
we always kind of look at Houston like, I don't know,
like Jacksonville. Well, say what you want, but I watched
Jacksonville today, Like, Jacksonville's got a lot of good players.
(40:26):
They've hit on a lot of those draft picks. Travis
Hunter is not even a factor. They're there. They got
two backs, they got two ends. So there are these
outlier seasons, John, where a team just gets hot, the
division's weak, you know, and I you know that gets hurt.
The Cowboys are bad, the Giants are worse. They didn't
have Jackson Dard. It's I don't know. I look at
(40:48):
Washington and I'm like, they need nine more players. They
need so many more players there, and this, Hey, good
for JJ. He needed a game like this again. They ran,
they passed, They just you can just watch football. You
watch Seattle's defense, You're like, damn, they're fast. You like Washington.
They can't bully, they can't run, they can't cover, They're awful.
(41:10):
It's just a they got very few good players.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
The volume
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Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.