Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL!
They start by debating whether Cowboys star pass rusher Micah Parsons should be paid top dollar (3:00) and who will win the NFC North (7:30).
They discuss the 49ers recent lack of draft success and whether Kyle Shanahan has had too much say in personnel decisions (12:15) and shout out Sean Payton for the incredible turnaround made by the Denver Broncos and argue that the Broncos could be poised to win the AFC West on the strength of their defense (18:45).
Then, Colin’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “Breakfast Ball” on FS1!
They discuss the massive gap between the western and eastern conferences in the NBA and the reasons driving the disparity, (32:00) and debate whether the top player in the east (Giannis) can power the Bucks to a finals appearance with Jayson Tatum out (38:00). They also talk about why the teams that have traded star players for assets almost always lose the trade and caution the Bucks about trading Giannis.
They pivot to the NFL and the backlash to the Browns plan to build a domed stadium and debate whether the tradition of snow & bad weather games is worth keeping in a quarterback driven era of football (45:00).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:24):
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Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I was saying this the other day. I think what
the Kansas City Chiefs started doing and I think the
Rams have followed suit, is there's kind of a trend
that the Steelers are not doing this, which is, listen,
we're gonna draft our defense. We're gonna stay young, cheap
and twitchy. Defensive players get hurt more than offensive players.
So you want a younger defense. We will pay for
(00:56):
Chris Jones. The Rams, i think, will eventually pay for
Jared Verse. You want to have most of your money
on the offensive side, left tackle, quarterback weapon and that
that feels like what Kansas City started to do with Mahomes,
Like we're gonna pay for some stuff to help him
offensive line, but we're gonna keep our defense super super young,
(01:20):
you know, because offense is more choreographed. It's more of
an offensive league. You want to make fewer mistakes. Now,
the Rams defense was the least penalized last year for
its age, which just doesn't even make sense. But anyway,
I was this week. I talked about Michael Parsons and
I said, I couldn't pay him top of the market.
I like him, but I don't think he has the
(01:42):
strength of Jared Verse, the consistency of Miles Garrett. He
doesn't play inside like Chris Jones. I don't think he's
as kind of intimidating or as consistent as Max Crosby.
I don't think he's as good as Trey Henderson. That's
my interpretation. How do you I think he's a splash
player and a good one. How do you view Michael Parson?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, I think I think he's better than probably the
way you just described him. But I'm with you, like
the upper upper echelon of you know, a Miles Garrett
or whoever they are at their position, justin Jefferson or
Trent Williams. You know, given what you have to pay
for a pass rusher, you know, Bosa, a couple of
years ago, got one hundred and twenty five million dollars guaranteed,
give or take to what's parsons one hundred and fifty
(02:23):
million dollars. I mean, are we talking quarterback contract? But
Jerry's already down this road. I mean, the chance to
trade him or move on would have been before the draft.
And we also know the way that Jerry does business
is like anyone thinking that Mike is gonna get paid
during the fourth of July holiday hasn't been falling the Cowboys.
This is gonna happen mid to late August, right before
(02:43):
the season, and it's gonna be absolutely top of the market.
And I've always theorized I don't know if Jerry has
this incredible investment. He never likes pulling out the cash
till the last second, but he does. I mean, he's
done it very consistently now with Dak with Ceedee Lamb,
he waits till the last second on his premium. They
would have been way better off, clearly, like we have
enough evidence now the market's only going up and up
(03:05):
and up, so they should have paid him after last year.
It would have been way cheaper. But they're down this
road I'm with you if he's the cornerstone, Like you're
Ray Lewis, you're Reggie White, you're Chris Jones. Because the
one thing Chris Jones at this point in time in
his career takes some plays off, but in a big game,
he can be the best player on the field. Yeah,
Michael Parsons can. But you know, against the run, is
(03:27):
he an elite player? I would say no, he's he's
a special pass rusher. But when does a pass rusher
come into play when you're up ten points? You know,
this is this Cowboy team going to be leading a
lot of people. You know, I don't know, so I think, yeah,
I mean I like him. I mean he's definitely a
high end player, but he also plays a high end
(03:49):
position that costs a premium. In any time that a
guy like him gets paid, it's gonna be an It's
an astronomical amount of money. Now, it's essentially like what
they paid Tu a couple of years ago at quarterback.
I mean, I would imagine his number comes in one
seventy five, they come in at one twenty, and then
they'll meet somewhere one forty one fifty. So now the
Cowboys to me. It's the way they've built their team.
(04:09):
They're all in on two players, Micah Parsons and Cde
lamb CD is an excellent player, Mike is damn good
and a quarterback who's you know, on his good days
like eight and on his bad days like sixteenth, and
that's that's and the coach and staff has a lot
of question marks. So I don't know, I go back
and forth. I know everyone, and you're down on the
Cowboys rightfully. So usually that's the time, like when a
(04:31):
team actually is better than you think, but you look
at their division, they're the third best team in their division.
Schedule's pretty difficult. I mean, Dak, I think we got
to ask major question marks about what he's going to
look like now off another major, major injury. You know,
is he completely immobile?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, I mean they've invested a lot in the offensive line,
so they're gonna pay him and then it's just gonna
be a he's got to be, you know, a fifteen
to eighteen SAT guy to make you feel good about
it moving forward.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So I was a little surprised. You like the Packers
doing the NFC North and I'll kind of throw out
my belief system, which is, I think to win a
Super Bowl you have to have seven elite players generally
close to their prime or just out of it. And
you know, there are obviously exceptions. But if you go
look at the Patriots dynasty, it was like Edelman, Gronk,
(05:23):
you know, Tom Brady, They'd have Logan Mankins, there'd be
a pass rusher somewhere in one great corner. And they
always had like six or seven guys who were really
step up, big player guys. Now they I mean the
Ravens teams with Ray Lewis obviously had that. The Chiefs
have mostly had that where they have Chris Jones one
elite corner, they almost always have a good safety. Now
(05:45):
they've got linebackers Travis Kelce, Patrick Mahomes again, Joe Tooney
for a couple of Super Bowls. But it's like at
least like five to six really high end players. So
I look at Detroit and I think Detroit Jamiir Gibbs,
Amoran st Brown, Hutchison, Pennay Sewell, they did lose their center,
(06:06):
which I think is a real thing that hurts. He
was an elite center. But I see I see about
five guys with them who I think they have a
young safety we like, right, who's that Detroit?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, Brian Branch the Alabama Kiss.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Bryan Bresh, Yeah, yeah, Bryan Branch. I I like Green
Bay's running back Josh Jacobs, JayR Alexandro. I like two
years ago. The receiving corps I thought was incredibly promising
at the beginning of last year, But now they drafted
a receiver in the first round, signaling they don't trust it.
(06:45):
Here's my knock on Green Bay. Do they have six
elite players, because that's kind of what wins the Super Bowl?
Philadelphia certainly just did.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah. I mean, I think they're very beholden on and
you know, predicated on the quarterback playing really well. And
two years ago down the stretch he was a top
six to seven guy in the league. The way he
played last year obviously was really bumpy. So to me,
if he's a Pro Bowl guy, he definitely has a
physical characteristics. I think the the question mark on him
coming into the season is very fair. I'm with you
(07:14):
on Jacobs. I think Kenny clark Uh is a excellent player.
Xavier McKinney, who they signed from the Giants, was excellent
last year. I think they're receiving unit. I'm with you.
I mean there were high hopes for a couple of
those guys concussions, injuries. You know, Watson couldn't catch. Now
he's got a torn ACL I think the the tight
(07:34):
end Tucker pretty good. Uh, the tight end, I mean
they got good tight ends. To me, they are I'm
with you, Like do they have the Justin Jeffersons and
the Micah Parsons and the Fred Warners. I think you
could push back on that, and that's more than fair.
Coaching staff's pretty damn good. Like their talent is good,
right that they won eleven games last year and won
one in five, so that they are a good team.
(07:56):
This is a team sport. That's why pushback always on
the NBA there's more talent than ever. Well, it's not
an individual sport. It's a team game. So it's like,
are the teams that good? And so I think the
Packers are probably better as a group than they are individually.
Because I'm with you. If you just did like a
draft from scratch in the NFC North, their players might
not go as high as some of the other players,
(08:17):
but you go, they've been running circles around the Bears
for years, and there's last year. You woud have gone
into the year. Bears have all these great players, so
it is a team sport. Their head coach is not
just the head coach who's proven to be good. He's
the play caller, which is powerful, and I think Jeff
Hafley proved to be a pretty damn good higher. I mean,
their defense was vastly improved. So I more like the
(08:38):
reason when we did the segment last week about picking
them to win the division is they won eleven games
when the quarterback was banged up, and they won one
division game, and honestly, they kind of got lucky to
win that against the Bears. If you remember, they could
have got owned six. So it's like that's not going
to happen. I would say on average they're gonna split
let's say three and three. And then their culture. I
(09:00):
just think that I liked their coaching staff and I'm
betting a little on the come on the quarterback, which
I could go the other way, but I think they
have a long history. Even if they goes Montana Young
to Jeff Garcia, if this guy's Jeff Garcia, Jeff Garcia
was banging out Pro Bowls. Now he's got a while
to prove he's even Jeff Garcia right, He's gonna need
(09:21):
a big season stay healthy. But he got injured in
that first game in Brazil, and I just felt like
that kind of derailed their whole deal.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, and I think when you're a young quarterback and
you get hurt and you get out of a rhythm,
I don't think it's like a veteran quarterback who comes back.
I felt like Jordan Love never got into a rhythm
last year. He was gone, that he was back, Then
he was inconsistent, Then he had a couple of great
game stretch, then he struggled. We don't know if he
was one hundred percent healthy. So I just I do
think he's super talented. So there was an article this week,
(09:50):
I think it was maybe Thursday. It was after You've
done Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday shows Sports Illustrated dot Com said,
you know now that you've paid Brock pretty a ton
off a losing season, Let's say Christian McCaffrey gets hurt
or Trent Williams and they're seven and ten. They just
I mean, let's face it, McCaffrey is a he's the bellcow.
(10:11):
He touches it. They're really good. I think Kyle's excellent,
and you can get away with firing a great coach.
I mean, Philadelphia is a factory, and they let go
of Andy Reid. But I do see something with San
Francisco and I worry about and I saw this the
(10:33):
last six or seven years or maybe more with New England,
and I talked about it a lot on the airs
that Belichick had too much say in the draft and
they started drafting very poorly. I thought Pete Carroll had
a stretch with John Snyder before the last year. I
think it was maybe the last two where he had
too much power Pete did. When Paul Allen died, there
(10:54):
was a void, there was a hole in the organization.
Snyder almost left. You remember to Detroit. He won the
hour back and then when he got it back, the
drafts were great again. And I thought they had the
best draft this year in the NFL. So Schneider and
so you see this. You've talked about this. The coach
makes the money, and if the coach starts whinning, the
Super Bowls are getting to him, he's going to have
(11:14):
a say. I think Sean Payton latt This draft had
real say. I could tell either John Lynch misses a
lot or Shanahan has a little more impact than I'd
be comfortable with. I didn't love Pearsall as a pick.
I thought they've I think they've drafted too many receivers.
The offensive line drafts picks have been weird. Jake Moody
(11:38):
is a kicker third round I didn't love. There's a
lot of real misses. Is that Shanahan usurping Lynch? He
is the most respected, kind of revered guy in the building.
What do you make of the Niners bad drafts?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, I think I told you this around the draft
time because I had a personnel guy tell me because
he was listening to podcast. He's like, the way we
describe it is coaches view drafts like a depth chart. Hey,
I'm missing a guard. We need to draft a guard high.
I don't have a starting guard. Where front office personnel
view it through the lens of over the course of
(12:17):
the next three or four years, how do we build
this team and see big picture? And I think this draft,
you know, for the most part, was pretty clear, Kyle.
They had some emptiness in the in their depth chart right,
because they let have their team go during free agency
and with the cuts. So when you make fifteen to
twenty million dollars, and John Lynch, I think is one
of the highest paid, if not the highest paid GM,
(12:38):
but relative to coaches, he's not making as much. And
Kyle had in his contract the moment he got hired,
he has the final say, same with Pete. I do
think Pete and John overtime work together. No different with
Kyle and John because they have a high level of respect.
But at the end of the day, the coach, you know,
when he's in these predicaments like the Niners were in
this season because they had to kind of revamp the
(12:59):
rock financially, they had a lot of holes and the
first thing you'd try to do with holes is plug
them if you're the coach. So I think this draft,
there's gonna be a lot of pressure on these last
two drafts. And I'm more bullish on the forty nine
ers than everyone else. To me, Kyle Shanahan is going
nowhere for the foreseeable future because the ownership just signed
brock Perty and brock Perty's tied to Kyle, so they're
(13:20):
getting a couple of year run. And obviously if Kyle
was let go at the end of this year or
the end of next year, regardless how these next couple
of years, he would be hired immediately. He'd be the
number one candidate if he wanted to keep working, and
would be hired by people think about firing their coach, right,
so that he's not worried about like he's in one
of these spots where unlike a day Ball or McDaniel
or some of these guys that might get fired, they're
(13:40):
not guaranteed to get another job. Of me, Kyle's guaranteed
right to get immediate and none other job. But I
do think, you know this this season is big because
the expectations are lower. But everyone's like, look at the
schedule and and I know Edelman, you know the way
they talk about Belichick, you never and I understand it's
the NFL, but like their schedule was a lot different
(14:02):
than playing the Ravens, the Bills and the Eagles. I mean,
they're playing a lot of the Titans in the Saints.
They have no excuse to not win I think at
minimum nine games. And part of it is when you
pay a quarterback, you know it's the Bucky Brooks, Tractors
and the Trailers. Regardless where perty is, if you're willing
to pay him, you should be very competitive with him
as your starting quarterback. I'm hard on Tua, but there
(14:24):
is no disputing when Tua plays sixteen seventeen games, the
Dolphins are just going to be a competitive team. Right
So now, even as they've changed the construct of the roster,
I think at minimum, anything other than nine wins if
you're the forty nine ers based on this schedule, based
on you know, investing in the quarterback, would be viewed
as a disaster. And I expect because again it's a
(14:46):
coaching league, and I do think Kyle's pretty awesome and
if he wasn't. McVeigh a couple of years ago was
really humbled by the experience and came back and obviously
what they've done the last couple of years speaks for herself.
You know, Coach Reid when he was fired, had a
big chip on his show, came back that that had
to be a pretty humbling year for Kyle at six
and eleven, with all the money they were spending, the
(15:06):
way they lost those games. Now you bring in Robert Sally,
your guy I think they're going to become with a fury.
I think they got a lot to prove. And I'm
higher on Purty than you are, mainly just because of
the offense. But I'm with you. If McCaffrey gets injured,
their record with and without him speaks for itself. Though
they have been very very open about like he's good,
(15:27):
he's in great shape, you know, I know people have
been going to practice that he looks good. Last year
was weird, you know, the Achilles weren't working, and then
he tears his knee when he finally comes back. So
if he gives them I don't know, ninety percent of
the season, I think they'd be in pretty He's a
he's a unique player, right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh, I think he is. I think take out Walter
Peyton and maybe Barry Sanders. I think he's a good
running back as I've ever seen in my life. Now.
Adrian Peterson was more forceful and faster maybe, but he
couldn't catch. He had a fumble issue. I think McCaffrey
Walter Peyton stronger than Barry Sanders. Barry was shifty, Walter
was shifty and incredibly pound for pound. I mean Walter
(16:08):
Payton's one of those. Could have been the strongest guy
in league history. Pound for pound. He was incredible. You
couldn't tackle him one on one. Linebackers couldn't. So but
I think McCaffrey is in that class. I think he's
just he's a remarkable player. You know, I was as
we go through all this stuff, I something popped in
my head. The other day PFF had Sean Payton as
(16:29):
the second best coach in the league, and I actually,
and I'm not saying this because I get along with Sean,
we really hit it off. But I'm also saying this,
I don't think he's quite getting enough credit for what
he's done in Denver. And some of that is Harbaught
soaks up so much of the glare because he's such
a character. And then there's the reigning dynasty in the
(16:49):
division and now you got Pete Carolyn chip Kelly. So
Denver sort of gets lost from a publicity standpoint. But
John think about this. So he goes into an organized
and the culture's broken, the quarterback's a mess, and there's
impending new ownership. So he goes in the first year.
I think they are one game, they win three more
(17:11):
games he makes Russ functional. He cleans up the offensive
line from like twenty first to like seventh. It just
got ranked second by the way PFF's grade starting the season,
it's now second. Last year with Herbert Mahomes, Harbaugh Reid,
(17:31):
he has a rookie quarterback. They end up leading the
league in sacks. It is now a bona Fie top
offensive line with really one Courtland Sutton, one dependable weapon.
And I mean, I just I looked at them last
year and I thought I thought they'd be good with Bonnicks.
I don't think we understand you start looking at that
(17:55):
division in in almost every other division with a number
two OH line, Sean Payton, a very capable young quarterback
leader in sacks, they get green Law and Hufunga. I'm like,
are we I think what he's done there the last
year to make the playoffs with eighty nine million dollars,
I think it was in dead cap money? Are we
undervaluing beause are the glare with everybody else what he's
(18:17):
done in Denver.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I've watched a couple of his press conferences during OTAs.
He thinks his team's pretty good. He thinks his team's
pretty good because defensively, they got a chance to dominate.
And if you have a dominant defense with an offensive
coach who's proven, like, how are your floor is so high?
I mean, your floor is immediately like ten wins. And
someone sent me this DM recently. They said, you know,
(18:40):
everyone talks about Jayden and I understand why, but look
at pull up the stats for bow Knicks and jay
I think we talked about bo Nicks like he threw
eighteen touchdowns. He threw twenty nine touchdowns. Now some of
these are scheme touchdowns, but his numbers, you know, you know,
the accuracy is something that I think he has to
work on now. The weapons they have to run back
in the draft. But I do think that, you know,
(19:05):
is he a guy under Sean Payton? If he just
becomes like Sean Payton's version, even if he's not Drew
Brees or whatever, but just like a Jared Goff, a
brock Purty, like a consistent ardor for they're gonna be
really good for a while. And I know last week
you had the Chargers too. They could be to win
the division. It's not I mean, it's not inconceivable, right
because he's a he's a unique second year player. How
(19:26):
old is he? Twenty five years old? Like he's played
a lot of.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Football, and he I think unless you watch him, he
didn't move a lot at Oregon. Sean lets him move
and he can. I mean, he's an athlete that that
dude is ripped. When I went to the Oregon Utah game,
I saw him play the Huskies, but I was up,
so I bought really good seats for Oregon Utah. I
wanted to be behind Oregon's bench. And he's on the
(19:50):
sideline and he is cucked. And you just watch him
in these NFL games and I always kind of look
at it. When a quarterback runs, how's the outside lineback?
How's the outside linebacker stack up?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He runs past him.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I mean he when he gets ahead of steam going,
he can move past guys. And I remember when Johnny
Manziel broke into the league. He went for a couple
of runs in the defensive end chased him down and
You're like, yeah, that's not gonna work. That's just not
gonna work when that guy is chasing you down. But
I Sean is one of those no nonsense guys, and
he's a little gruff. And I remember when he said
(20:24):
something and Aaron Rodgers, you know, when he said something
about Nat Hackett. And again I don't think the media, ohways,
gives Sean quite a fair shake because he's pretty rough
and pretty direct. But that hafunga pick up. You know,
he's been banged up. He's an elite safety well.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
To me, I mean two years ago his zelpro in
green Law. I mean a lot of question marks with
his with his health. But if you if one of
those two guys is a full time player, let alone
both of them, the violence of their defense will be
it'll be one of the, if not the hardest hitting
defense in the league. I mean they already were right
out up there last year. And you know, we talked
a lot about this when it comes to quarterback, especially
(21:05):
young quarterbacks, is the intangibles, the maturity, the focus, the drive,
you know bo Nick's and Jayden gets a lot of
credit for that, rightfully, so bo Nick should be right
there too in terms of, you know, the way they
spoke about him at Oregon, his maturity, also what he's
been through a lot like Jayden, like and I would
say unlike Jayden, it's easier to fail at Arizona State.
(21:27):
No one really cares. Team hasn't been good. You struggle
at Auburn when you're in his situation like that was
a that was like an NFL, the way they're covered,
the amount of people that care. Uh, the spotlight that
was on him. Remember he was I think his first
start was against Justin Herbert. Remember that Oregon game, A
long long time.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Throwing the corner. He played a big throw as a
freshman into the corner of the end zone to win it.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
And then his career just kind of unraveled as their
program did, and then he went to Oregon. You've seen
him in two stable environments, Oregon and Denver, and he's thrived.
So it's safe to say, like, yeah, pretty impressive guy.
I would bet on bow Knicks because Sean Payton clearly
not going anywhere. I mean, they are a twelve thirteen
win season away from Sean Payton then getting a huge
contract extension, right, he was given five years, ninety million.
(22:15):
They have a good year and the trajectory of this franchise,
and listen, I would have assumed when Sean got the
job that General Patten, the GM would have been fired.
And John it's saying it feels like He's worked pretty seamlessly.
They work together. Maybe Sean's realized I got to pick
my battles like, let's just get along, and it feels
like they got a pretty stable organization. That's the thing
(22:36):
with Pete Carroll and the Raiders, Like Jim Harbaugh's kind
of matured. Sean Payton's at a different stage in his
life obviously. You know, Andy's the most human feature on
the scene. It's a really really difficult division with these
guys like that have really figured it out, that have
cracked the code of personality. What it takes, the energy
that it takes, what they're looking they know exactly what
they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's pretty scary. Yeah, No, I think I think actually
Patton's a pretty good GM. I thought I didn't think
the problem was I thought the problem was Hacket. Listen,
it happens. I mean, Bob Kraft is a good owner.
He hired Draw on May and he just wasn't ready
for it. Like it happens. It's hard to hire coaches.
(23:17):
I mean, they took a huge swing on Sean McVay
in Los Angeles. They wouldn't let him out of the building.
That was a but you know, at one point, Lane
Kiffin was in the NFL and was a pretty good coach.
The dysfunction of the Raiders ended that.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
But they hacket it right because they thought Rogers was
going to come, which I would have done to at
the time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I mean that was yeah. Listen, Josh McDaniels was a
guest on my show and we kept in touch. He's
a really, really sharp guy. It just hasn't worked as
head coach. He's a tremendous coordinator. So whatever the magic is,
I don't know exactly what it is. Some guys work,
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Speaker 1 (25:27):
Most of the time, if there's a sort of a
trend in sports, I love decoding it. It's one of
my favorite things to do. Like I've you know, I've
got my theories and beliefs. The NBA West is now
so much better than the East. It has been for
thirty years, and a lot of it's just because bad
ownership in Charlotte and Chicago and Atlanta and Washington. That's
(25:49):
like the all bad owner front office teams are all
mostly out East. The West. Denver and Houston now are
capable of winning the title. Okase just did. San Antonio
is going to make a huge leap. Minnesota is really
really good. The Lakers have Austin Reeves, Lebron and Luca,
(26:09):
Golden State has Butler, Draymon and staff, and the Clippers
are viable. You could argue all of those teams. I mean,
the Warriors were all plain team last year. All of
them could compete for the Eastern Conference Finals. I'm not
sure they could win it. I don't think the Clippers
could win it, but it is interesting. The only thing
(26:30):
I can account for the dominance. It's like SEC times two,
Like the SEC had a twenty year run, but now
the Big ten feels as good or better. The West
is pulling away. Some of it's just Tatum and Halliburton's injuries.
Mike guesses its ownership stinks out East. That's I mean
the Knicks firing TIBs. I mean, any thoughts on the domination.
(26:52):
It's a winter league and the weather's better out West.
I mean, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I think that that's actually a piece of it, right,
I think like some of it is people want to
go La. That's two of the teams. The Warriors became
a juggernaut, world class organization, Silicon Valley business. That that's
out where all these guys now have podcast companies in
media company is and all of that. Your your ownership
point out East is luck of the draw. Some of
(27:18):
it is lottery too, right, Like the Spurs won the
lottery in the WENB. Yamin year West, Dallas wins the
lottery in the Cooper Flag year West. You mentioned Dallas.
Dallas is Kyrie, Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Now you're right, I forgot to put Dallas. And there's
six teams I love.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Right exactly, So like so some of it is blind luck,
some of it is some of it is weather. And
you know, Miami has been an attractive destination and they're
just a little down right right now, right like they
usually could have gotten KD And I would not have
loved the Tyler Hero, Bamana Bayo, Kevin Durant Big Three
(28:00):
as like an NBA champion contender, but we certainly would
have talked about them as being viable in the Eastern Conference.
And this isn't what your main point was, but I'm
gonna bring it up anyway because I'm fascinated by it.
I think that what Milwaukee did make made sense. I
know they're getting killed for it, but they were just
the five seed in the East. You are as much
(28:22):
of an NBA fan and historian as I am. Can
you think of because I have a period of time
that I'm thinking of where the gap between the best
player in a conference and the second best player in
a conference has been larger than what it will be
next year between Yannis and the second best player in
(28:42):
the East without Jason Tatum, because like second best player
in the East next year, Kate Cunningham, Jaylen Carroll, Ban Carrow.
Sure Jalen Brunson, like Yannis, is thirty twelve and six
and still a top fifteen to twenty defensive player in
(29:03):
the league. And the only reason he's not top five
defensive lead is because he's doing so much damn work
on offense. Like they were just the five seed, they
absolutely believe that they can win, and they might be
dead ass wrong. And you know, they gave up everything
for Dame and Drew and then Dame got hurt and
not like Miles Turner's game. But Milwaukee is saying, Giannis
(29:29):
gave us everything, including a title, and he wants to
beat Kobe. He wants to be Tim Duncan, he wants
to be here forever. So in the East, why can't
he grind us to fifty wins and the four seed
and his third MVP, which would be there's only nine
(29:50):
guys in NBA history who won three or more MVPs.
And like that season, even if it doesn't end in
a title, that's a season that Bucks fans would love.
Like that, that's a worthwhile exercise and professional sports entertainment.
I think if I think if the Bucks with Giannis
and the Dame injury and the salary cap situation and
(30:12):
the lack of draft picks. If they were New Orleans,
if they were in the West, they would trade Yiannis.
But they look at it and they say, we've got
the best player in the history of the franchise, the
peak of his powers, who wants to be here. He's
not looking for Miami or La or movie stardom or
anything like that. Like, Okay, fine, we'll stretch Dame and
(30:34):
we're going to just try to grind out as many
wins as possible. I think there's something admirable in it,
even if it won't end in a championship.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah. So I have the opposite take, which is it
is so hard. First of all, dynasties mostly come in
certain NBA cities, or when you have a transformational player
and he has a great coach like Duncan and Pop Kerr,
Kadi Curry, you know Magic and Riley, you know Lebron,
(31:03):
Wade Spolstra, and so Milwaukee has never gotten the coach right.
And it's also not a desirable area. And in my life,
and we're seeing it now in the seventies and now
we're seeing it over the last seven years. It's just
one there's no great teams with the new CBA and aprons,
there won't be You just can't do it. I mean
even a team I like next year a lot Orlando,
(31:24):
they may never win a title. Just have a bunch
of one A player and a bunch of B plus
a minus guys.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
But in NBA.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
History that sometimes one is enough. Think about how good
the Shack Penny, Nick Anderson Dennis Scott teams were no titles.
Think how good the Sacramento Kings were they couldn't get
through the Lakers no titles. Is that Luel Cinder got one,
Yokich got one. My take is, okay, see won't win
(31:53):
it next year. They're two inconsistent offensively in Houston now
and Denver and all these teams in the West, they're
just going to chip away. Everybody is that if you
win one and you have Gi honest, and you win
one and you still have a wildly productive player, but
you can't get the coach right and you get old
really fast, which happened in Milwaukee three years ago. Middleton,
(32:15):
you know, lower body injuries. You're like, yeah, this is
getting old fast. Is that when you watch the Rudy
Gobert trade. I would have gone oh, we can get
six unprotested, uncontested first round picks, an All Star and
two rotational players that I do think smaller markets, the
Orlandos and the Sacramentos, they hold on the stuff because
(32:39):
it's the big show in town. It's of mice and men,
Lenny squeezing. They can't let go. And it's like, guys,
you have been so old and such a bad matchup
against younger athletic teams like Boston for three years. I mean,
I think people are forgetting they were favored over Indiana
in the end, it destroyed them.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
The games were competitive, yeah, I mean, listen, I think
there is some truth to that. But there's also like
they've had bad injuries at bad times. Like I was
at Game one Bucks Heat and it was the one seedv.
(33:20):
The eight seed and they lose to Miami. Jannis falls
on his back in the playoffs, gets hurt. Isn't the
same guy ouse to the series Dame hurt in the
playoffs but doesn't play this whole series. Middleton has gotten
hurt in the playoffs like they I think they like
they got one and then they haven't won playoff series
(33:40):
since and were the national responses like, oh, well, so
then they haven't been close since in Milwaukee, they're like, well,
we've also had bad injury luck to go along with it,
and you're definitely right. They want to hold on to
it and it's the big game in town. But has
Utah won the you Go Bear trade? Like the team
(34:03):
that trades the superstar for the four or five or
six assets. There's now a lot of examples of it
working out. It worked out in Oklahoma City they traded
Paul George and they get SGA and a draft pick
that becomes Jalen Williams. But they also had Sam Presty
doing the trading and the drafting, and there aren't many
of those guys out there, Like, what's a trade for Giannis?
(34:27):
Where you're gonna turn around and be like, yup, the
Bucks are going to be back in the NBA finals
in three years?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Okay, this is the one, so kd shen Goon, I'm
on temp. Thompson don't win, they get they don't even
get to the finals, and Katie's one year older. And
then Houston says for Tita says, okay, we're going for it. Okay,
We're gonna go for it. Shen Goon an All Star
(34:53):
for Jannis, Jabari Smith, who's going to back up Katie
this year? Sure, and and five unprotected first round picks
and maybe a deep bench rotational players. Now it's kd Aman, Thompson,
Jannis and other young guys that.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Houston would want it.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
But if I'm Milwaukee, I get. I mean, Shengon's going
to be a twenty four point game guy for next
to eight years. He's he's really a beautiful player.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, so is thes What is he won?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Well? No, no, okay, okay, it's fair, it's fair, But
then I get.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
To it's hard. It's hard. My point. My point is
it's I think you're always going to lose on that trade.
And even if your point is okay, well, eighty cents
on the dollar is better than fifty cents on the dollar.
There's something too, and you I think we can be
a little national remove fandom live in a bunch of
(35:54):
different places. There's something too. Yannis love Milwaukee and Milwaukee
loving Giannis. Yes, he was the fifteenth pick in the draft.
He was a skinny kid from Greece and when he
came to Milwaukee. You can google the stories the NBA
(36:16):
was buying the arena back from the Bucks. Yes, I remember,
they're like, you need to get public financing for your
stadium where we are going to move your team, And
they got the financing, they opened the building. Ownership says,
this is a commitment to show that we can build
around and win with Giannis. They built a new practice facility,
(36:39):
a beautiful new arena, and then he delivers a championship.
And this is just a silly anecdote that I happen
to know just from being in Chicago. But like Yannis,
whenever he would come and play the Bulls, he would
go to you probably know that you know ovly the
Greek restaurants. Yeah, so the guy who owns it is
lu canelis the local sports anchor on the affiliate in Chicago.
(37:01):
He's a restaurant tour also, it's probably his main business.
By now, there's there's one in There's there's like five locations,
four or five locations in and around Chicago, and there's
one in Milwaukee that Yannis. Everyone was like, oh, Yannis
is gonna leave Milwaukee and go to the Bulls because
he wants to like have all the good Greek restaurants
in Chicago and He's like, no, I'm just gonna open
(37:23):
a good Greek restaurant in Milwaukee. Like he he brought
the Greek food to Milwaukee. Like the guy, it's a
throwback man. Like we said, like Steph Curry is the Warriors,
it would be weird if he played somewhere else. Tim
Duncan was the Spurs, Kobe was the Lakers, Like there's
I am just rooting for the purity of the fifteenth
(37:46):
pick in the draft who delivers the title to the
small market. And he's like, I'm happy. I'm happy. I'm
not messing with happy. I don't think it could. I
don't think. I think you're you like moving, You're like La.
You're like you're like I like London and La and
Europe and backpacking and biking and like you like moving around.
(38:09):
And I get it. But this guy, I think he
just likes Milwaukee. I think we project onto Giannis, would
we we want Giannis to play for a championship, that's right,
And he's like, why can't I play for a championship here?
And he's probably wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
So this is something that I've never understood. I don't
understand the advantage of it. Back in the sixties, seventies, eighties,
and nineties when the NFL, you literally could be average
at quarterback and win your division regularly. You ran the ball,
you played defense. The NFL allowed all sorts of clutching
(38:50):
and grabbing and hitting late. I mean there's videos of
Joe Montana being slammed the turf, which would get you
thrown out for like six games. Now, so I never
understood snow games, but I do think there was an
era in which, if you were built right, run game
weren't great at quarterback defense, snow games were a little
(39:13):
bit of an advantage. But Cleveland, the Cleveland Browns come
out over the last week and they're like, we're coming
out with a new stadium, and people are like, oh
my god, there goes the home field advantage. I'm like,
you have a horrible home record over the last three decades. First,
But my takeaway is it's a quarterback league. Snow Brady
(39:36):
is an exception that I would watch him and Manning
playing snow and I'm like, oh, Tom's winning the game.
I could tell him pregame they take that shot on
CBS and Manning would be freezing. If marks, probably Tom's winning.
It's over is that the snow game Today, there's not
many of them at fields like but I think it's
always been completely overrated. There's a reason we play Bowl
(39:59):
games in better weather. I don't want my football screwed
with by ice storms and sleet, and I think it
remains the most overratted thing in American sports, the snow
football game.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I want my games to be played like they are
supposed to be played. So I'm glad the Super Bowl
is in a dome, right I do. But I like
December regular season games in snow like. I think there
is something too, like lamp like, there's like some stadiums
(40:33):
that should just be grandfathered in, Like Fenway is like
a little bit of a pain in the ass, but
you'd be bummed if they changed Fenway Wriggly. They've renovated
Wrigley and they've made it better with video boards and
accessibility and all that, but like, that is still a
brick wall out there covered by ivy. It's not like
the most practical thing in the world. Right, Like if
(40:54):
Pete crow Armstrong, who's gonna be the starting center fielder
for the National League, ran into the brick wall and
broke his shoulder, we would do the topic of like
should there be a brick wall in center field? Yes, yeah,
that's pretty dangerous, that's pretty archaic, but there's a charm
to it. It doesn't have to make sense Lambeau Like
(41:15):
if the so you'd say that the Packers should put
a roof on Lambeau Field.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
No, I think exactly. Yeah, I mean I think green
Bay is what green Bay is. I think it's I
think it's history is the frozen tundra in Vince Lombardi right, right.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Because it doesn't make any sense for an NFL team
to be in green Bay, Wisconsin. Right if we were
if we were starting the league tomorrow from scratch and
you picked thirty two cities, we wouldn't pick green Bay. Well,
it's it's angel agree the NFL is better with green
Bay existing.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
What what? What is laughable about the Bears is green
Bay is always drafted quarterback farv Aaron and Love with
above average arms, and the Buffalo Bills with Jim Kelly
and Josh Allen understand the value of a whip in
northern climates. That's why it was always indefensible when Mitch Trubisky,
who's ball dyed twenty four yards down the field was
(42:17):
drafted by the Bears. It's like, is there a Dome
stadium that was as agreed to that I'm not aware,
Like there's some teams that don't even understand the weather advantages.
This Dome team draft Tua warm weather Tua. If you
draft him and cold, you're idiotic and should be fired
as general manager.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
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Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I was saying this the other day. I think what
the Kansas City Chiefs started doing and I think the
Rams have followed suit, is there's kind of a trend
that the Steelers are not doing this, which is, listen,
we're gonna draft our defense. We're gonna stay young, cheap
and twitchy. Defensive players get hurt more than offensive players.
So you want a younger defense. We will pay for
(00:56):
Chris Jones. The Rams, i think, will eventually pay for
Jared Verse. You want to have most of your money
on the offensive side, left tackle, quarterback weapon and that
that feels like what Kansas City started to do with Mahomes,
Like we're gonna pay for some stuff to help him
offensive line, but we're gonna keep our defense super super young,
(01:20):
you know, because offense is more choreographed. It's more of
an offensive league. You want to make fewer mistakes. Now,
the Rams defense was the least penalized last year for
its age, which just doesn't even make sense. But anyway,
I was this week. I talked about Michael Parsons and
I said, I couldn't pay him top of the market.
I like him, but I don't think he has the
(01:42):
strength of Jared Verse, the consistency of Miles Garrett. He
doesn't play inside like Chris Jones. I don't think he's
as kind of intimidating or as consistent as Max Crosby.
I don't think he's as good as Trey Henderson. That's
my interpretation. How do you I think he's a splash
player and a good one. How do you view Michael Parson?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, I think I think he's better than probably the
way you just described him. But I'm with you, like
the upper upper echelon of you know, a Miles Garrett
or whoever they are at their position, justin Jefferson or
Trent Williams. You know, given what you have to pay
for a pass rusher, you know, Bosa, a couple of
years ago, got one hundred and twenty five million dollars guaranteed,
give or take to what's parsons one hundred and fifty
(02:23):
million dollars. I mean, are we talking quarterback contract? But
Jerry's already down this road. I mean, the chance to
trade him or move on would have been before the draft.
And we also know the way that Jerry does business
is like anyone thinking that Mike is gonna get paid
during the fourth of July holiday hasn't been falling the Cowboys.
This is gonna happen mid to late August, right before
(02:43):
the season, and it's gonna be absolutely top of the market.
And I've always theorized I don't know if Jerry has
this incredible investment. He never likes pulling out the cash
till the last second, but he does. I mean, he's
done it very consistently now with Dak with Ceedee Lamb,
he waits till the last second on his premium. They
would have been way better off, clearly, like we have
enough evidence now the market's only going up and up
(03:05):
and up, so they should have paid him after last year.
It would have been way cheaper. But they're down this
road I'm with you if he's the cornerstone, Like you're
Ray Lewis, you're Reggie White, you're Chris Jones. Because the
one thing Chris Jones at this point in time in
his career takes some plays off, but in a big game,
he can be the best player on the field. Yeah,
Michael Parsons can. But you know, against the run, is
(03:27):
he an elite player? I would say no, he's he's
a special pass rusher. But when does a pass rusher
come into play when you're up ten points? You know,
this is this Cowboy team going to be leading a
lot of people. You know, I don't know, so I think, yeah,
I mean I like him. I mean he's definitely a
high end player, but he also plays a high end
(03:49):
position that costs a premium. In any time that a
guy like him gets paid, it's gonna be an It's
an astronomical amount of money. Now, it's essentially like what
they paid Tu a couple of years ago at quarterback.
I mean, I would imagine his number comes in one
seventy five, they come in at one twenty, and then
they'll meet somewhere one forty one fifty. So now the
Cowboys to me. It's the way they've built their team.
(04:09):
They're all in on two players, Micah Parsons and Cde
lamb CD is an excellent player, Mike is damn good
and a quarterback who's you know, on his good days
like eight and on his bad days like sixteenth, and
that's that's and the coach and staff has a lot
of question marks. So I don't know, I go back
and forth. I know everyone, and you're down on the
Cowboys rightfully. So usually that's the time, like when a
(04:31):
team actually is better than you think, but you look
at their division, they're the third best team in their division.
Schedule's pretty difficult. I mean, Dak, I think we got
to ask major question marks about what he's going to
look like now off another major, major injury. You know,
is he completely immobile?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, I mean they've invested a lot in the offensive line,
so they're gonna pay him and then it's just gonna
be a he's got to be, you know, a fifteen
to eighteen SAT guy to make you feel good about
it moving forward.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So I was a little surprised. You like the Packers
doing the NFC North and I'll kind of throw out
my belief system, which is, I think to win a
Super Bowl you have to have seven elite players generally
close to their prime or just out of it. And
you know, there are obviously exceptions. But if you go
look at the Patriots dynasty, it was like Edelman, Gronk,
(05:23):
you know, Tom Brady, They'd have Logan Mankins, there'd be
a pass rusher somewhere in one great corner. And they
always had like six or seven guys who were really
step up, big player guys. Now they I mean the
Ravens teams with Ray Lewis obviously had that. The Chiefs
have mostly had that where they have Chris Jones one
elite corner, they almost always have a good safety. Now
(05:45):
they've got linebackers Travis Kelce, Patrick Mahomes again, Joe Tooney
for a couple of Super Bowls. But it's like at
least like five to six really high end players. So
I look at Detroit and I think Detroit Jamiir Gibbs,
Amoran st Brown, Hutchison, Pennay Sewell, they did lose their center,
(06:06):
which I think is a real thing that hurts. He
was an elite center. But I see I see about
five guys with them who I think they have a
young safety we like, right, who's that Detroit?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, Brian Branch the Alabama Kiss.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Bryan Bresh, Yeah, yeah, Bryan Branch. I I like Green
Bay's running back Josh Jacobs, JayR Alexandro. I like two
years ago. The receiving corps I thought was incredibly promising
at the beginning of last year, But now they drafted
a receiver in the first round, signaling they don't trust it.
(06:45):
Here's my knock on Green Bay. Do they have six
elite players, because that's kind of what wins the Super Bowl?
Philadelphia certainly just did.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah. I mean, I think they're very beholden on and
you know, predicated on the quarterback playing really well. And
two years ago down the stretch he was a top
six to seven guy in the league. The way he
played last year obviously was really bumpy. So to me,
if he's a Pro Bowl guy, he definitely has a
physical characteristics. I think the the question mark on him
coming into the season is very fair. I'm with you
(07:14):
on Jacobs. I think Kenny clark Uh is a excellent player.
Xavier McKinney, who they signed from the Giants, was excellent
last year. I think they're receiving unit. I'm with you.
I mean there were high hopes for a couple of
those guys concussions, injuries. You know, Watson couldn't catch. Now
he's got a torn ACL I think the the tight
(07:34):
end Tucker pretty good. Uh, the tight end, I mean
they got good tight ends. To me, they are I'm
with you, Like do they have the Justin Jeffersons and
the Micah Parsons and the Fred Warners. I think you
could push back on that, and that's more than fair.
Coaching staff's pretty damn good. Like their talent is good,
right that they won eleven games last year and won
one in five, so that they are a good team.
(07:56):
This is a team sport. That's why pushback always on
the NBA there's more talent than ever. Well, it's not
an individual sport. It's a team game. So it's like,
are the teams that good? And so I think the
Packers are probably better as a group than they are individually.
Because I'm with you. If you just did like a
draft from scratch in the NFC North, their players might
not go as high as some of the other players,
(08:17):
but you go, they've been running circles around the Bears
for years, and there's last year. You woud have gone
into the year. Bears have all these great players, so
it is a team sport. Their head coach is not
just the head coach who's proven to be good. He's
the play caller, which is powerful, and I think Jeff
Hafley proved to be a pretty damn good higher. I mean,
their defense was vastly improved. So I more like the
(08:38):
reason when we did the segment last week about picking
them to win the division is they won eleven games
when the quarterback was banged up, and they won one
division game, and honestly, they kind of got lucky to
win that against the Bears. If you remember, they could
have got owned six. So it's like that's not going
to happen. I would say on average they're gonna split
let's say three and three. And then their culture. I
(09:00):
just think that I liked their coaching staff and I'm
betting a little on the come on the quarterback, which
I could go the other way, but I think they
have a long history. Even if they goes Montana Young
to Jeff Garcia, if this guy's Jeff Garcia, Jeff Garcia
was banging out Pro Bowls. Now he's got a while
to prove he's even Jeff Garcia right, He's gonna need
(09:21):
a big season stay healthy. But he got injured in
that first game in Brazil, and I just felt like
that kind of derailed their whole deal.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, and I think when you're a young quarterback and
you get hurt and you get out of a rhythm,
I don't think it's like a veteran quarterback who comes back.
I felt like Jordan Love never got into a rhythm
last year. He was gone, that he was back, Then
he was inconsistent, Then he had a couple of great
game stretch, then he struggled. We don't know if he
was one hundred percent healthy. So I just I do
think he's super talented. So there was an article this week,
(09:50):
I think it was maybe Thursday. It was after You've
done Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday shows Sports Illustrated dot Com said,
you know now that you've paid Brock pretty a ton
off a losing season, Let's say Christian McCaffrey gets hurt
or Trent Williams and they're seven and ten. They just
I mean, let's face it, McCaffrey is a he's the bellcow.
(10:11):
He touches it. They're really good. I think Kyle's excellent,
and you can get away with firing a great coach.
I mean, Philadelphia is a factory, and they let go
of Andy Reid. But I do see something with San
Francisco and I worry about and I saw this the
(10:33):
last six or seven years or maybe more with New England,
and I talked about it a lot on the airs
that Belichick had too much say in the draft and
they started drafting very poorly. I thought Pete Carroll had
a stretch with John Snyder before the last year. I
think it was maybe the last two where he had
too much power Pete did. When Paul Allen died, there
(10:54):
was a void, there was a hole in the organization.
Snyder almost left. You remember to Detroit. He won the
hour back and then when he got it back, the
drafts were great again. And I thought they had the
best draft this year in the NFL. So Schneider and
so you see this. You've talked about this. The coach
makes the money, and if the coach starts whinning, the
Super Bowls are getting to him, he's going to have
(11:14):
a say. I think Sean Payton latt This draft had
real say. I could tell either John Lynch misses a
lot or Shanahan has a little more impact than I'd
be comfortable with. I didn't love Pearsall as a pick.
I thought they've I think they've drafted too many receivers.
The offensive line drafts picks have been weird. Jake Moody
(11:38):
is a kicker third round I didn't love. There's a
lot of real misses. Is that Shanahan usurping Lynch? He
is the most respected, kind of revered guy in the building.
What do you make of the Niners bad drafts?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, I think I told you this around the draft
time because I had a personnel guy tell me because
he was listening to podcast. He's like, the way we
describe it is coaches view drafts like a depth chart. Hey,
I'm missing a guard. We need to draft a guard high.
I don't have a starting guard. Where front office personnel
view it through the lens of over the course of
(12:17):
the next three or four years, how do we build
this team and see big picture? And I think this draft,
you know, for the most part, was pretty clear, Kyle.
They had some emptiness in the in their depth chart right,
because they let have their team go during free agency
and with the cuts. So when you make fifteen to
twenty million dollars, and John Lynch, I think is one
of the highest paid, if not the highest paid GM,
(12:38):
but relative to coaches, he's not making as much. And
Kyle had in his contract the moment he got hired,
he has the final say, same with Pete. I do
think Pete and John overtime work together. No different with
Kyle and John because they have a high level of respect.
But at the end of the day, the coach, you know,
when he's in these predicaments like the Niners were in
this season because they had to kind of revamp the
(12:59):
rock financially, they had a lot of holes and the
first thing you'd try to do with holes is plug
them if you're the coach. So I think this draft,
there's gonna be a lot of pressure on these last
two drafts. And I'm more bullish on the forty nine
ers than everyone else. To me, Kyle Shanahan is going
nowhere for the foreseeable future because the ownership just signed
brock Perty and brock Perty's tied to Kyle, so they're
(13:20):
getting a couple of year run. And obviously if Kyle
was let go at the end of this year or
the end of next year, regardless how these next couple
of years, he would be hired immediately. He'd be the
number one candidate if he wanted to keep working, and
would be hired by people think about firing their coach, right,
so that he's not worried about like he's in one
of these spots where unlike a day Ball or McDaniel
or some of these guys that might get fired, they're
(13:40):
not guaranteed to get another job. Of me, Kyle's guaranteed
right to get immediate and none other job. But I
do think, you know this this season is big because
the expectations are lower. But everyone's like, look at the
schedule and and I know Edelman, you know the way
they talk about Belichick, you never and I understand it's
the NFL, but like their schedule was a lot different
(14:02):
than playing the Ravens, the Bills and the Eagles. I mean,
they're playing a lot of the Titans in the Saints.
They have no excuse to not win I think at
minimum nine games. And part of it is when you
pay a quarterback, you know it's the Bucky Brooks, Tractors
and the Trailers. Regardless where perty is, if you're willing
to pay him, you should be very competitive with him
as your starting quarterback. I'm hard on Tua, but there
(14:24):
is no disputing when Tua plays sixteen seventeen games, the
Dolphins are just going to be a competitive team. Right
So now, even as they've changed the construct of the roster,
I think at minimum, anything other than nine wins if
you're the forty nine ers based on this schedule, based
on you know, investing in the quarterback, would be viewed
as a disaster. And I expect because again it's a
(14:46):
coaching league, and I do think Kyle's pretty awesome and
if he wasn't. McVeigh a couple of years ago was
really humbled by the experience and came back and obviously
what they've done the last couple of years speaks for herself.
You know, Coach Reid when he was fired, had a
big chip on his show, came back that that had
to be a pretty humbling year for Kyle at six
and eleven, with all the money they were spending, the
(15:06):
way they lost those games. Now you bring in Robert Sally,
your guy I think they're going to become with a fury.
I think they got a lot to prove. And I'm
higher on Purty than you are, mainly just because of
the offense. But I'm with you. If McCaffrey gets injured,
their record with and without him speaks for itself. Though
they have been very very open about like he's good,
(15:27):
he's in great shape, you know, I know people have
been going to practice that he looks good. Last year
was weird, you know, the Achilles weren't working, and then
he tears his knee when he finally comes back. So
if he gives them I don't know, ninety percent of
the season, I think they'd be in pretty He's a
he's a unique player, right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh, I think he is. I think take out Walter
Peyton and maybe Barry Sanders. I think he's a good
running back as I've ever seen in my life. Now.
Adrian Peterson was more forceful and faster maybe, but he
couldn't catch. He had a fumble issue. I think McCaffrey
Walter Peyton stronger than Barry Sanders. Barry was shifty, Walter
was shifty and incredibly pound for pound. I mean Walter
(16:08):
Payton's one of those. Could have been the strongest guy
in league history. Pound for pound. He was incredible. You
couldn't tackle him one on one. Linebackers couldn't. So but
I think McCaffrey is in that class. I think he's
just he's a remarkable player. You know, I was as
we go through all this stuff, I something popped in
my head. The other day PFF had Sean Payton as
(16:29):
the second best coach in the league, and I actually,
and I'm not saying this because I get along with Sean,
we really hit it off. But I'm also saying this,
I don't think he's quite getting enough credit for what
he's done in Denver. And some of that is Harbaught
soaks up so much of the glare because he's such
a character. And then there's the reigning dynasty in the
(16:49):
division and now you got Pete Carolyn chip Kelly. So
Denver sort of gets lost from a publicity standpoint. But
John think about this. So he goes into an organized
and the culture's broken, the quarterback's a mess, and there's
impending new ownership. So he goes in the first year.
I think they are one game, they win three more
(17:11):
games he makes Russ functional. He cleans up the offensive
line from like twenty first to like seventh. It just
got ranked second by the way PFF's grade starting the season,
it's now second. Last year with Herbert Mahomes, Harbaugh Reid,
(17:31):
he has a rookie quarterback. They end up leading the
league in sacks. It is now a bona Fie top
offensive line with really one Courtland Sutton, one dependable weapon.
And I mean, I just I looked at them last
year and I thought I thought they'd be good with Bonnicks.
I don't think we understand you start looking at that
(17:55):
division in in almost every other division with a number
two OH line, Sean Payton, a very capable young quarterback
leader in sacks, they get green Law and Hufunga. I'm like,
are we I think what he's done there the last
year to make the playoffs with eighty nine million dollars,
I think it was in dead cap money? Are we
undervaluing beause are the glare with everybody else what he's
(18:17):
done in Denver.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I've watched a couple of his press conferences during OTAs.
He thinks his team's pretty good. He thinks his team's
pretty good because defensively, they got a chance to dominate.
And if you have a dominant defense with an offensive
coach who's proven, like, how are your floor is so high?
I mean, your floor is immediately like ten wins. And
someone sent me this DM recently. They said, you know,
(18:40):
everyone talks about Jayden and I understand why, but look
at pull up the stats for bow Knicks and jay
I think we talked about bo Nicks like he threw
eighteen touchdowns. He threw twenty nine touchdowns. Now some of
these are scheme touchdowns, but his numbers, you know, you know,
the accuracy is something that I think he has to
work on now. The weapons they have to run back
in the draft. But I do think that, you know,
(19:05):
is he a guy under Sean Payton? If he just
becomes like Sean Payton's version, even if he's not Drew
Brees or whatever, but just like a Jared Goff, a
brock Purty, like a consistent ardor for they're gonna be
really good for a while. And I know last week
you had the Chargers too. They could be to win
the division. It's not I mean, it's not inconceivable, right
because he's a he's a unique second year player. How
(19:26):
old is he? Twenty five years old? Like he's played
a lot of.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Football, and he I think unless you watch him, he
didn't move a lot at Oregon. Sean lets him move
and he can. I mean, he's an athlete that that
dude is ripped. When I went to the Oregon Utah game,
I saw him play the Huskies, but I was up,
so I bought really good seats for Oregon Utah. I
wanted to be behind Oregon's bench. And he's on the
(19:50):
sideline and he is cucked. And you just watch him
in these NFL games and I always kind of look
at it. When a quarterback runs, how's the outside lineback?
How's the outside linebacker stack up?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He runs past him.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I mean he when he gets ahead of steam going,
he can move past guys. And I remember when Johnny
Manziel broke into the league. He went for a couple
of runs in the defensive end chased him down and
You're like, yeah, that's not gonna work. That's just not
gonna work when that guy is chasing you down. But
I Sean is one of those no nonsense guys, and
he's a little gruff. And I remember when he said
(20:24):
something and Aaron Rodgers, you know, when he said something
about Nat Hackett. And again I don't think the media, ohways,
gives Sean quite a fair shake because he's pretty rough
and pretty direct. But that hafunga pick up. You know,
he's been banged up. He's an elite safety well.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
To me, I mean two years ago his zelpro in
green Law. I mean a lot of question marks with
his with his health. But if you if one of
those two guys is a full time player, let alone
both of them, the violence of their defense will be
it'll be one of the, if not the hardest hitting
defense in the league. I mean they already were right
out up there last year. And you know, we talked
a lot about this when it comes to quarterback, especially
(21:05):
young quarterbacks, is the intangibles, the maturity, the focus, the drive,
you know bo Nick's and Jayden gets a lot of
credit for that, rightfully, so bo Nick should be right
there too in terms of, you know, the way they
spoke about him at Oregon, his maturity, also what he's
been through a lot like Jayden, like and I would
say unlike Jayden, it's easier to fail at Arizona State.
(21:27):
No one really cares. Team hasn't been good. You struggle
at Auburn when you're in his situation like that was
a that was like an NFL, the way they're covered,
the amount of people that care. Uh, the spotlight that
was on him. Remember he was I think his first
start was against Justin Herbert. Remember that Oregon game, A
long long time.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Throwing the corner. He played a big throw as a
freshman into the corner of the end zone to win it.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
And then his career just kind of unraveled as their
program did, and then he went to Oregon. You've seen
him in two stable environments, Oregon and Denver, and he's thrived.
So it's safe to say, like, yeah, pretty impressive guy.
I would bet on bow Knicks because Sean Payton clearly
not going anywhere. I mean, they are a twelve thirteen
win season away from Sean Payton then getting a huge
contract extension, right, he was given five years, ninety million.
(22:15):
They have a good year and the trajectory of this franchise,
and listen, I would have assumed when Sean got the
job that General Patten, the GM would have been fired.
And John it's saying it feels like He's worked pretty seamlessly.
They work together. Maybe Sean's realized I got to pick
my battles like, let's just get along, and it feels
like they got a pretty stable organization. That's the thing
(22:36):
with Pete Carroll and the Raiders, Like Jim Harbaugh's kind
of matured. Sean Payton's at a different stage in his
life obviously. You know, Andy's the most human feature on
the scene. It's a really really difficult division with these
guys like that have really figured it out, that have
cracked the code of personality. What it takes, the energy
that it takes, what they're looking they know exactly what
they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It's pretty scary. Yeah, No, I think I think actually
Patton's a pretty good GM. I thought I didn't think
the problem was I thought the problem was Hacket. Listen,
it happens. I mean, Bob Kraft is a good owner.
He hired Draw on May and he just wasn't ready
for it. Like it happens. It's hard to hire coaches.
(23:17):
I mean, they took a huge swing on Sean McVay
in Los Angeles. They wouldn't let him out of the building.
That was a but you know, at one point, Lane
Kiffin was in the NFL and was a pretty good coach.
The dysfunction of the Raiders ended that.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
But they hacket it right because they thought Rogers was
going to come, which I would have done to at
the time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I mean that was yeah. Listen, Josh McDaniels was a
guest on my show and we kept in touch. He's
a really, really sharp guy. It just hasn't worked as
head coach. He's a tremendous coordinator. So whatever the magic is,
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Speaker 1 (25:27):
Most of the time, if there's a sort of a
trend in sports, I love decoding it. It's one of
my favorite things to do. Like I've you know, I've
got my theories and beliefs. The NBA West is now
so much better than the East. It has been for
thirty years, and a lot of it's just because bad
ownership in Charlotte and Chicago and Atlanta and Washington. That's
(25:49):
like the all bad owner front office teams are all
mostly out East. The West. Denver and Houston now are
capable of winning the title. Okase just did. San Antonio
is going to make a huge leap. Minnesota is really
really good. The Lakers have Austin Reeves, Lebron and Luca,
(26:09):
Golden State has Butler, Draymon and staff, and the Clippers
are viable. You could argue all of those teams. I mean,
the Warriors were all plain team last year. All of
them could compete for the Eastern Conference Finals. I'm not
sure they could win it. I don't think the Clippers
could win it, but it is interesting. The only thing
(26:30):
I can account for the dominance. It's like SEC times two,
Like the SEC had a twenty year run, but now
the Big ten feels as good or better. The West
is pulling away. Some of it's just Tatum and Halliburton's injuries.
Mike guesses its ownership stinks out East. That's I mean
the Knicks firing TIBs. I mean, any thoughts on the domination.
(26:52):
It's a winter league and the weather's better out West.
I mean, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I think that that's actually a piece of it, right,
I think like some of it is people want to
go La. That's two of the teams. The Warriors became
a juggernaut, world class organization, Silicon Valley business. That that's
out where all these guys now have podcast companies in
media company is and all of that. Your your ownership
point out East is luck of the draw. Some of
(27:18):
it is lottery too, right, Like the Spurs won the
lottery in the WENB. Yamin year West, Dallas wins the
lottery in the Cooper Flag year West. You mentioned Dallas.
Dallas is Kyrie, Anthony Davis and Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Now you're right, I forgot to put Dallas. And there's
six teams I love.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Right exactly, So like so some of it is blind luck,
some of it is some of it is weather. And
you know, Miami has been an attractive destination and they're
just a little down right right now, right like they
usually could have gotten KD And I would not have
loved the Tyler Hero, Bamana Bayo, Kevin Durant Big Three
(28:00):
as like an NBA champion contender, but we certainly would
have talked about them as being viable in the Eastern Conference.
And this isn't what your main point was, but I'm
gonna bring it up anyway because I'm fascinated by it.
I think that what Milwaukee did make made sense. I
know they're getting killed for it, but they were just
the five seed in the East. You are as much
(28:22):
of an NBA fan and historian as I am. Can
you think of because I have a period of time
that I'm thinking of where the gap between the best
player in a conference and the second best player in
a conference has been larger than what it will be
next year between Yannis and the second best player in
(28:42):
the East without Jason Tatum, because like second best player
in the East next year, Kate Cunningham, Jaylen Carroll, Ban Carrow.
Sure Jalen Brunson, like Yannis, is thirty twelve and six
and still a top fifteen to twenty defensive player in
(29:03):
the league. And the only reason he's not top five
defensive lead is because he's doing so much damn work
on offense. Like they were just the five seed, they
absolutely believe that they can win, and they might be
dead ass wrong. And you know, they gave up everything
for Dame and Drew and then Dame got hurt and
not like Miles Turner's game. But Milwaukee is saying, Giannis
(29:29):
gave us everything, including a title, and he wants to
beat Kobe. He wants to be Tim Duncan, he wants
to be here forever. So in the East, why can't
he grind us to fifty wins and the four seed
and his third MVP, which would be there's only nine
(29:50):
guys in NBA history who won three or more MVPs.
And like that season, even if it doesn't end in
a title, that's a season that Bucks fans would love.
Like that, that's a worthwhile exercise and professional sports entertainment.
I think if I think if the Bucks with Giannis
and the Dame injury and the salary cap situation and
(30:12):
the lack of draft picks. If they were New Orleans,
if they were in the West, they would trade Yiannis.
But they look at it and they say, we've got
the best player in the history of the franchise, the
peak of his powers, who wants to be here. He's
not looking for Miami or La or movie stardom or
anything like that. Like, Okay, fine, we'll stretch Dame and
(30:34):
we're going to just try to grind out as many
wins as possible. I think there's something admirable in it,
even if it won't end in a championship.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah. So I have the opposite take, which is it
is so hard. First of all, dynasties mostly come in
certain NBA cities, or when you have a transformational player
and he has a great coach like Duncan and Pop Kerr,
Kadi Curry, you know Magic and Riley, you know Lebron,
(31:03):
Wade Spolstra, and so Milwaukee has never gotten the coach right.
And it's also not a desirable area. And in my life,
and we're seeing it now in the seventies and now
we're seeing it over the last seven years. It's just
one there's no great teams with the new CBA and aprons,
there won't be You just can't do it. I mean
even a team I like next year a lot Orlando,
(31:24):
they may never win a title. Just have a bunch
of one A player and a bunch of B plus
a minus guys.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
But in NBA.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
History that sometimes one is enough. Think about how good
the Shack Penny, Nick Anderson Dennis Scott teams were no titles.
Think how good the Sacramento Kings were they couldn't get
through the Lakers no titles. Is that Luel Cinder got one,
Yokich got one. My take is, okay, see won't win
(31:53):
it next year. They're two inconsistent offensively in Houston now
and Denver and all these teams in the West, they're
just going to chip away. Everybody is that if you
win one and you have Gi honest, and you win
one and you still have a wildly productive player, but
you can't get the coach right and you get old
really fast, which happened in Milwaukee three years ago. Middleton,
(32:15):
you know, lower body injuries. You're like, yeah, this is
getting old fast. Is that when you watch the Rudy
Gobert trade. I would have gone oh, we can get
six unprotested, uncontested first round picks, an All Star and
two rotational players that I do think smaller markets, the
Orlandos and the Sacramentos, they hold on the stuff because
(32:39):
it's the big show in town. It's of mice and men,
Lenny squeezing. They can't let go. And it's like, guys,
you have been so old and such a bad matchup
against younger athletic teams like Boston for three years. I mean,
I think people are forgetting they were favored over Indiana
in the end, it destroyed them.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
The games were competitive, yeah, I mean, listen, I think
there is some truth to that. But there's also like
they've had bad injuries at bad times. Like I was
at Game one Bucks Heat and it was the one seedv.
(33:20):
The eight seed and they lose to Miami. Jannis falls
on his back in the playoffs, gets hurt. Isn't the
same guy ouse to the series Dame hurt in the
playoffs but doesn't play this whole series. Middleton has gotten
hurt in the playoffs like they I think they like
they got one and then they haven't won playoff series
(33:40):
since and were the national responses like, oh, well, so
then they haven't been close since in Milwaukee, they're like, well,
we've also had bad injury luck to go along with it,
and you're definitely right. They want to hold on to
it and it's the big game in town. But has
Utah won the you Go Bear trade? Like the team
(34:03):
that trades the superstar for the four or five or
six assets. There's now a lot of examples of it
working out. It worked out in Oklahoma City they traded
Paul George and they get SGA and a draft pick
that becomes Jalen Williams. But they also had Sam Presty
doing the trading and the drafting, and there aren't many
of those guys out there, Like, what's a trade for Giannis?
(34:27):
Where you're gonna turn around and be like, yup, the
Bucks are going to be back in the NBA finals
in three years?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Okay, this is the one, so kd shen Goon, I'm
on temp. Thompson don't win, they get they don't even
get to the finals, and Katie's one year older. And
then Houston says for Tita says, okay, we're going for it. Okay,
We're gonna go for it. Shen Goon an All Star
(34:53):
for Jannis, Jabari Smith, who's going to back up Katie
this year? Sure, and and five unprotected first round picks
and maybe a deep bench rotational players. Now it's kd Aman, Thompson,
Jannis and other young guys that.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Houston would want it.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
But if I'm Milwaukee, I get. I mean, Shengon's going
to be a twenty four point game guy for next
to eight years. He's he's really a beautiful player.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, so is thes What is he won?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Well? No, no, okay, okay, it's fair, it's fair, But
then I get.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
To it's hard. It's hard. My point. My point is
it's I think you're always going to lose on that trade.
And even if your point is okay, well, eighty cents
on the dollar is better than fifty cents on the dollar.
There's something too, and you I think we can be
a little national remove fandom live in a bunch of
(35:54):
different places. There's something too. Yannis love Milwaukee and Milwaukee
loving Giannis. Yes, he was the fifteenth pick in the draft.
He was a skinny kid from Greece and when he
came to Milwaukee. You can google the stories the NBA
(36:16):
was buying the arena back from the Bucks. Yes, I remember,
they're like, you need to get public financing for your
stadium where we are going to move your team, And
they got the financing, they opened the building. Ownership says,
this is a commitment to show that we can build
around and win with Giannis. They built a new practice facility,
(36:39):
a beautiful new arena, and then he delivers a championship.
And this is just a silly anecdote that I happen
to know just from being in Chicago. But like Yannis,
whenever he would come and play the Bulls, he would
go to you probably know that you know ovly the
Greek restaurants. Yeah, so the guy who owns it is
lu canelis the local sports anchor on the affiliate in Chicago.
(37:01):
He's a restaurant tour also, it's probably his main business.
By now, there's there's one in There's there's like five locations,
four or five locations in and around Chicago, and there's
one in Milwaukee that Yannis. Everyone was like, oh, Yannis
is gonna leave Milwaukee and go to the Bulls because
he wants to like have all the good Greek restaurants
in Chicago and He's like, no, I'm just gonna open
(37:23):
a good Greek restaurant in Milwaukee. Like he he brought
the Greek food to Milwaukee. Like the guy, it's a
throwback man. Like we said, like Steph Curry is the Warriors,
it would be weird if he played somewhere else. Tim
Duncan was the Spurs, Kobe was the Lakers, Like there's
I am just rooting for the purity of the fifteenth
(37:46):
pick in the draft who delivers the title to the
small market. And he's like, I'm happy. I'm happy. I'm
not messing with happy. I don't think it could. I
don't think. I think you're you like moving, You're like La.
You're like you're like I like London and La and
Europe and backpacking and biking and like you like moving around.
(38:09):
And I get it. But this guy, I think he
just likes Milwaukee. I think we project onto Giannis, would
we we want Giannis to play for a championship, that's right,
And he's like, why can't I play for a championship here?
And he's probably wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
So this is something that I've never understood. I don't
understand the advantage of it. Back in the sixties, seventies, eighties,
and nineties when the NFL, you literally could be average
at quarterback and win your division regularly. You ran the ball,
you played defense. The NFL allowed all sorts of clutching
(38:50):
and grabbing and hitting late. I mean there's videos of
Joe Montana being slammed the turf, which would get you
thrown out for like six games. Now, so I never
understood snow games, but I do think there was an
era in which, if you were built right, run game
weren't great at quarterback defense, snow games were a little
(39:13):
bit of an advantage. But Cleveland, the Cleveland Browns come
out over the last week and they're like, we're coming
out with a new stadium, and people are like, oh
my god, there goes the home field advantage. I'm like,
you have a horrible home record over the last three decades. First,
But my takeaway is it's a quarterback league. Snow Brady
(39:36):
is an exception that I would watch him and Manning
playing snow and I'm like, oh, Tom's winning the game.
I could tell him pregame they take that shot on
CBS and Manning would be freezing. If marks, probably Tom's winning.
It's over is that the snow game Today, there's not
many of them at fields like but I think it's
always been completely overrated. There's a reason we play Bowl
(39:59):
games in better weather. I don't want my football screwed
with by ice storms and sleet, and I think it
remains the most overratted thing in American sports, the snow
football game.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I want my games to be played like they are
supposed to be played. So I'm glad the Super Bowl
is in a dome, right I do. But I like
December regular season games in snow like. I think there
is something too, like lamp like, there's like some stadiums
(40:33):
that should just be grandfathered in, Like Fenway is like
a little bit of a pain in the ass, but
you'd be bummed if they changed Fenway Wriggly. They've renovated
Wrigley and they've made it better with video boards and
accessibility and all that, but like, that is still a
brick wall out there covered by ivy. It's not like
the most practical thing in the world. Right, Like if
(40:54):
Pete crow Armstrong, who's gonna be the starting center fielder
for the National League, ran into the brick wall and
broke his shoulder, we would do the topic of like
should there be a brick wall in center field? Yes, yeah,
that's pretty dangerous, that's pretty archaic, but there's a charm
to it. It doesn't have to make sense Lambeau Like
(41:15):
if the so you'd say that the Packers should put
a roof on Lambeau Field.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
No, I think exactly. Yeah, I mean I think green
Bay is what green Bay is. I think it's I
think it's history is the frozen tundra in Vince Lombardi right, right.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Because it doesn't make any sense for an NFL team
to be in green Bay, Wisconsin. Right if we were
if we were starting the league tomorrow from scratch and
you picked thirty two cities, we wouldn't pick green Bay. Well,
it's it's angel agree the NFL is better with green
Bay existing.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
What what? What is laughable about the Bears is green
Bay is always drafted quarterback farv Aaron and Love with
above average arms, and the Buffalo Bills with Jim Kelly
and Josh Allen understand the value of a whip in
northern climates. That's why it was always indefensible when Mitch Trubisky,
who's ball dyed twenty four yards down the field was
(42:17):
drafted by the Bears. It's like, is there a Dome
stadium that was as agreed to that I'm not aware,
Like there's some teams that don't even understand the weather advantages.
This Dome team draft Tua warm weather Tua. If you
draft him and cold, you're idiotic and should be fired
as general manager.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
The volume
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