Colin’s top takes of the week.
First, Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down all the NFL action.
They start with the Broncos beating the Chiefs to blow the AFC West race wide open & they credit Sean Payton for building a stacked roster while still paying big dead cap money to Russell Wilson, and debate whether the Chiefs dynasty is officially over (3:30).
They move to the Rams win over the Seahawks and Colin argues that if the roles were reversed and Matt Stafford had thrown 4 interceptions instead of Sam Darnold…. the game wouldn’t have been close, and they agree the Rams have Darnold’s number (16:45).
They pivot to the Bears walk-off win over the Vikings and they both agree that J.J. McCarthy does NOT look like a starting quarterback, and that the contrast between McCarthy and Caleb Williams could not be more stark.They also tip their cap to Ben Johnson for creating a winning culture in Chicago (30:00) and give kudos to both Kyle Shanahan and Brock Purdy for hanging 41 on the Cardinals in Purdy’s first game back from injury (36:45).
Then, Colin Cowherd is joined by Josh Pate to discuss the latest in College Football. They start off with this weekend's big matchup between USC & Oregon. They give their takes on who will win and the state of USC 43:45). They give their Mount Rushmore of College Football jobs (50:45) and debate whether Ohio State has an all-time great defense this season (58:00) and which teams would test the Buckeyes the most (1:03:00).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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Speaker 3 (00:21):
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(00:43):
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extra extra. Something's going on here, all right. Former NFL scout.
(01:08):
You know. It was John Middlecoff. His podcast is three
and out. He is everywhere during the football season, and
my Blazing five is on a freaking heater four and
oh today, I couldn't get a break in September, I'm
getting every break. When Shador Sanders came in, I was like, wait,
Cleveland Leeds sixteen to ten. I've got the Browns plus
(01:29):
eight and a half, just no pick sixes. And he
actually had a nice, like final dry little spin move
throwing the ends on you. Okay, I was It was
really entertaining. So let's start Denver twenty two Kansas City nineteen.
So the Broncos are now nine and two. The Chiefs
are a five hundred team. They're a hell of a
five hundred team. Kansas City's a good team. Bo Nicks
(01:51):
twenty four to thirty seven, two ninety five. Again no
big mistakes. What's interesting against Spags in that defense, John,
you know, really struggled. But they for the first time
in nine weeks, they scored on their opening drive and
it was as if Bow and Sean found a rhythm,
certainly on enough drives to get field goals that they
(02:13):
hadn't had. But it was one of those games when
you watched Sam Darnold unravel and you watched a lot
of quarterbacks. Today there was some ugly quarterback play. This
is where Boonix is really good. He doesn't take sacks,
he can move the chains with his legs. He's really
good in these big fourth quarter drives. I know he
drives everybody nuts, but there is something to be said
(02:36):
about today against Mahomes, milking that clock, making that big
throw down the stretch. Well, it's your interpretation of Nixon
what you saw today.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah, I mean that final drive was huge, right, he
had two third downs third and fifteen when he scrambled
to his right. They need to get him on the
move more often, I think sometimes same. They've really tried
to push the ball down the field. And even today
some of his a lot of his incompletion, because his
numbers look good, are on the deep ball. He was
not skipping balls like he did whatever a Thursday a
week ago. It was that deep ball. He's still overthrowing it,
(03:09):
but he was. He's good on the move. And then
the third and five that sudden made the play, and
then that second and eight which essentially sealed the game.
So three enormous passes. I actually thought when Kelsey scored, saying,
I mean Travis Kelsey and Chris Jones. I mean, you
talk about these guys, I mean you knew they would
bring it. They both of them dominated today. I thought
(03:30):
that that second time that when Mems on the when
returned that punt and they were in the red zone
and they didn't come out of with touchdown, like I
think they're gonna look back and God, they're gonna be
kicking themselves on that one, and he just he found
a way. I mean their defense is both these defense,
I mean these are how about that could be the
AFC Championship game right there.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
John, how about the late window Cleveland's defense, Ram Seattle, Denver,
Kansas City And Robert sala is doing an unfricking believable
job with nobody he's gotten. You know, Winter's a good
player that kids everywhere. But no, I kind of look
at this game and I think the Chiefs were eleven
(04:10):
and oh or twelve and oh last year and one
possession games and their own five. And my takeaway on
that isn't that they were eleven and oh, not just that,
but why are they in so many close games. And
I think you see this with Buffalo. You start paying
these quarterbacks four hundred million dollars and John, you look
at Buffalo's defense, it's really okay, it's just okay. It's
(04:30):
got a couple splash players. You look at Kansas City,
you know they don't have much of a run game.
Kelsey again rises to the moment. Chris Jones has not
had a good year. He had a good day today.
But I think it's the reality is when you know,
when you start looking at roster Seattle where they're paying
Sam very very workable. Wait, Indianapolis, Daniel Jones, it looks
(04:53):
it's unbelievable roster. So you know some of it with
Kansas City is this is the reality. Remember and Drew
Brees was in New Orleans. He took a big salary
and they dipped for two years and then he took
a team friendly deal at the end and they have
great rosters. With Sean Payton. How much credit do you give,
you know, Sean Payton's funny. I think he's the best
(05:13):
coach in football. Nobody wants to admit it's a great
coach because he's a little he can be a little
bit of a smart ass. But John, they're still paying
Russell Wilson and this roster is stacked.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Where I give them a lot of credit is remember
when they gave they had that game his first year
where they played Miami and gave up seventy points and
there was so much momentum, and you went, this Vance
Joseph thing is just not going to work. And you
look back a couple of years later, they have a
potential all time defense. I mean, they might break the
sacks record. The blitz he called. You just talked about
(05:46):
defensive coordinators. I mean the amount if you combine the
salaries of the defensive coordinators in the late window, I
mean's a lot of money the treas are getting paid.
That blitz that he called, did sack Patrick Mahomes, I
mean that was that was big times. Sometimes you got
to mix it up again. It's an all time great
player and kind of confuse him. I mean you're playing
I mean the coaching quarterback combination one of, if not
(06:07):
the greatest combination of all time. So Vance Joseph, to
me deserves They played the Chiefs really well now two
years in a row, and they're missing their best defensive players.
So obviously you know Sean and you know he's he's
been very i would say consistent on bo Nicks. He's
kept his mouth shut when he's really struggled because he
doesn't want this guy to go into the tank. And
(06:28):
they I think the team is just kind of, you know,
stood by his back because whatever. That Thursday night game
was pretty ugly. I mean, that was that was as
bad as it got. And today you get a little
extra time. I think Romo mentioned it that they spend
a lot of time just kind of getting back to
the basics, like getting in and out of the huddle.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
You know, I think sometimes you think it's like you
get rushed. It's like getting in out of the huddle.
Bo Nicks was saying, coach, you're getting me the plays
too late. And they worked on like stuff that you
don't even think. But that's sometimes you've got to take
a step back before you worry about like what's up
with his accurate See, well, if he's all rattled and
all this other shit, then you're already screwed before you
even started.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's what we saw with Kayleb Williams in the first
three weeks. His operational stuff was a mess. Now he's
still not pretty, but that's not the problem. He may struggle,
but the operational stuff. I do think with bow Nicks,
he's a really tightly wound guy. He's very intense, and
so I think Sean was adding to that anxiety by
(07:25):
getting it in late. And you and I had talked
about this the last couple of weeks. He played nervous,
and I think now we look at it and we're like, Oh,
that's why he's a tightly wound guy. He's incredibly hard
on himself. I talked to somebody who knew him before
the season. They're like, that kid is hard on himself,
like a little like Lamar Jackson, just doesn't savor wins
(07:45):
like losses are crushing. And so then Shawn's getting the
plays in late. Sean's demanding so early in the season.
And Shawn's never been a great September coach anyway, because
he just unloads the playbook on him. But I thought
today bo less frenetic. I thought that final drive was like,
I mean, John, that was a little Jaden Daniels of
last year. You're like, Wow, that's a that's a Pro
(08:07):
Bowl level drive. Like two big throws and they just
the way Sean and Bo milked the clock. I mean
that that. I mean even when Romo and Nance said
at the end, they're like, hey, if the Chiefs don't
make a tackle here, get down at the one, and
they didn't. Peyton and Bo had thought it out. They
just took a knee. They were not going to let
(08:28):
Kansas City control it. They took a knee.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And you know, I.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Don't think I don't think Kansas City's a bad team.
I just think the margins get really skinny when you
pay Kelsey Jones Mahomes. I mean, the hell they had
to get rid of Joe Toney, you know, just this
is the reality of having a four hundred million dollars quarterback.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
The other thing is this when you go to five
Super Bowls in six years, and I think the year
you missed it, you lost in the AFC Championship Game.
Where are you drafting every round? You know, twenty nine, thirty,
thirty one, thirty two. And that's not just the first
We're talking the third and the fourth round. So your margin, Ferrera,
You're not getting the pick of the litter each round, right,
This isn't like the second round you get to pick
(09:09):
the four best players that are still on the board
in the thirties or early forties. You're picking at the
end at sixty. So the pressure on Beach in the
scouting staff is really really high, and I think that's
why they were kind of hesitant to make a bold trade,
because you need the picks, and especially, like, let's face it,
Kelsey and Chris Jones are coming down the home stretch here, right,
(09:29):
so these guys, they're no longer seventeen game elite guy.
They give you, however, many games during the regular season,
hopefully the playoff games, but like you are gonna need
to make some hay in the draft. But even this year,
let's say they end up going ten and seven because
they got some winnable games on their schedule. Let's just
say this the year they get bounced in the first round,
they're still it's not like they're drafted seven. They're still
(09:50):
drafted twenty first, so they are just you know, sometimes,
you know, the Ravens have had a good little stretch
here of the Starks and the Wiggins, and they've hit
it like there's a little dumb luck to that because
a lot OF's out of your control, right, the guy
you want. You see this year with Johad Campbell being
there for Howie, some years that guy goes pick sixteen
and you're just like, we don't really like any of
these picks. It's why historically you get a lot of
(10:12):
the good teams, John Schneider, Belichick, they would go back, yes,
because like, we just don't feel comfortable here. And it
just it's very draft dependent. I watched a lot of
college football. I'm like, I don't know how many blue
Chippers are in this upcoming draft. Definitely not when the
you know a lot of these teams in the twenties
are going to be draft so it just puts a
lot of pressure and the Chiefs put them I think
coach Reid and Patrick will be the first. They put
(10:33):
themselves into a hole. You start zero and two, you
lose that crazy Jags game. You shouldn't be like on
tilt in the middle of November on the road at
an eight and two team, Well, right, that the season
shouldn't and it's the season technically not on the line,
but the division streaks over tonight, the Broncos essentially won
the division in icon. They malade the Commanders next, and
then the Raiders yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So I had picked Denver to win this division. I
picked Kansas City had finished second, Chargers third, and Raiders four.
So I've had a good year on picks and pretty
good year. I picked New England to be my shocking
team in Seattle to make the playoffs. It's been a
good football and pro football year for me. But one
of the things I had I really believe about Kansas
City is that when you look at the Chiefs, a
(11:22):
lot of the reality of playing these big, intense seasons
is there's a fatigue. It's more hits you end up having.
I mean, I guess just kind of the way I
look at Kansas City's run is like how I looked
at New England is that before the season, I said
(11:44):
the dynasty's over, and I said they'll make the playoffs.
They'll probably win another Super Bowl or two, but you
just can't keep doing it. The eye test tells you
that defense two years ago was faster than now, and
Chris Jones was more dominating. When you take Chris Jones
out of his prime and like Kelsey, Wh'll give you
great games but not a great season, that defense isn't
(12:09):
the same John. It's like it's like the Rams got
lucky when Donald left or when Aaron Donald left, because
they had drafted and hit on like five different defensive
players in the box. So the defense about a year
after we left are like, oh hell, it's still nasty.
But they hit on five defensive picks. Five of them
were all even the third round. Kobe Turner was good.
(12:31):
But when Chris Jones the last two years, especially this year,
isn't as dominant. The rest of the players are good players,
and so they had to let go of Snead at corner.
And they have a couple guys get dinged up. And
when I watch them play today, it's still well coached.
That's still good. But Seattle's defense or the Rams defense today,
just turn the sound down. The Rams defense is just
(12:52):
there's nothing open anywhere. There's stuff open today that bo
Nicks and Peyton took advantage of.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I mean, part of it is in Belichick and Brady.
You know, in the middle of I guess the late
two thousands, early twenty tens, you got to start hitting
on some the new group of guys, right, they got
high Tower, they got mccordy, right, they got all these
other players to come in. Obviously, Edelman became a consistent loot.
They hit on Gronk in the second round. The Chiefs
are gonna have to do that over the next couple
(13:20):
of years, and they kind of already have. You know,
she Rice a high end player. Say if you're worthy,
they're gonna need more out of him. They got McDuffie
and Karl Loftis on defense. You need to hit on
a couple more guys. But listen, I think they've proven
they know what they're doing. This is just not the
Belichick and Brady had some years where they lost in
the first round. Remember that the Rex Ryan beat him, the
Ravens beat him, Peyton got him a couple of times.
(13:41):
Like you're not gonna go to the super Bowl five
and six years. I'd be stunned if that ever happens again.
I'm not with the parody the way the league's built.
But the Broncos they're gonna be in a position, you
know now, they're in the driver's seat to get the
number one seed, right because the Colts, I mean, are
they just going to keep rattling off wins? I think
the Broncos, you look at their schedule, it's pretty easy.
(14:03):
I do believe if they could get home field advantage,
that's gonna be a very very tough place to win,
you know, for opposing teams to come in with that defense,
and they just need bo Nicks to play like today,
no turnovers. We don't need three four touchdowns a game.
You go back to some of the defenses that you know,
people like in the eighties and the nineties, in the
early two thousands, we don't need three touchdowns, Like, just
(14:25):
do not turn the ball over. Maybe throw one, we'll
rush for one, and we will win this thing. Seventeen
to thirteen, no problem.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Don't forget Denver at home in January, it will be snowing,
so that defense will be even nastier because it's going
to be windy at high altitude in snowing. Seattle loses
to the Rams. Rams twenty one Seahawks nineteen. Pretty remarkable
that with four Sam Darnold interceptions Seattle, which I again
(14:53):
I think their rosters, I think defensively, they got so
many dudes. First of all, these these two defenses, there's
just nothing I felt bad for Sam Darnald. There's just
if a ball gets tipped in the err, it's picked.
There's just this very little. I mean, thank God for JS,
and it's just hard to have plays. It's hard to
have successive plays against the Rams defense that hit. You
can hit one and then it's backwards. So but I
(15:17):
was thinking about this because the Rams jump out to
it very quickly. That's very impressive, and then they have
to hold on. But I was, you know they Here's
the thing that jumped out me. The Rams defense in
the red zone. Number one, if you didn't watch the game,
the Rams defense in the red zone kept forcing Seattle
into field goals. So that was the early portion of
(15:40):
the game. The second portion was they kept intercepting Sam Donald.
But this struck me during the game. If Stafford would
have thrown four picks, Seattle would have blown the Rams out,
would have blown their doors off. How can Seattle stay
with them? And my takeaway is this, Matt Stafford, John
is play call reliant. He is as good as they call,
(16:01):
right Sam's not. If the play breaks down, Sam can
create a second play, sometimes a third with his legs.
The weakness with the Rams because there is no weakness defensively.
Their corners aren't great. But Forbes, now, Emmanuel Forbes in
is playing really well. He's a nice corner, probably a
number two corner, but he's a good corner. Their safeties
(16:21):
are good, their pass rush. Stafford's not giving you anything
off the play call. Now, he can get in and
out of stuff pre snap, but if the play breaks
down or it's just stuffed, the play's over. I feel
like with Darnold. I mean, when Matt Stafford is reckless
and has a bad day, Rams get hammered, but Seattle
doesn't because you know, they dominate time of possession. Got
(16:44):
in the second and third quarter. Seattle had the ball
for twenty minutes, the Rams had it for three. I
mean again, there is such a value to having an
athletic cornerback that can just create a second play if
the first play gets snuffed.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
That's my thing.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I love Stafford, but with him and Goff, you do
not get a second play within a play call. The
play call is what the play call is. And I
thought it was remarkable that Seattle was kicking a game
winning field goal.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
I thought it was.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Unbelievable if they would have. If Seattle wins this game,
I don't think Sean McVay could have slept all week.
You can't pick a guy off four times and lose
that game. I mean there at one point in time,
it felt like the Ram for in complete control and
I looked down and Matt Stafford had thrown for like
sixty yards. I'm like, something, this feels weird. He ended
(17:36):
up only throwing for one hundred and thirty yards. Sam
Donald threw for almost.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Three hundred yards.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I mean he threw for two hundred eighty yards. Mac
Jones is thrown for six hundred and fifty yards combined
against the Rams, which is ironic because you can throw
on him. But their defensive coordinator, I think we have
to have some ownage over Sam Donald because some of
those picks aren't tip balls. They're hitting guys in the numbers.
So he rattled them in the playoff game when they
(18:01):
had to play it in Glendale because the Fires, and
then he rattled them again today really bad. It was
the first time. Like he's still making some explosive plays,
the one play the jaysnkle with one hand, and obviously
the running backs make some big plays, but like if
you're gonna I mean, he did not have a touchdown today,
and he threw four interceptions, and I mean I three
off the top of my head. Are hitting guys in
stride the one where he did like the t bow
(18:22):
jump up and he just hit the guy. It's like that,
can't that looked a little Jets Carolina Panthers. Yeah, I
think Chris Sula, who is Sean mcvay's handpick guy, their
buddies from college, has just come. It's like a matchup thing.
See this in basketball. You see sometimes in baseball with
a pitcher versus hitter Chris Sula against Sam Darnold because
(18:42):
it's not even a koobia thing because they had a
different offensive coordinator last year in the playoffs where was
Ryan Grubb. It's something he's doing to Sam is throwing
them off with some of these looks because they do
not have Jalen Ramsey and some of these guys back
there in the defensive backfield, these are not like their
strength is the pass rush, not the corners. Even though
the guy they just traded for did make a great play,
(19:03):
that would have been a Sam Donald maybe underthrew him
by what he yes, eight inches and the guy made
a great play with his fingertips. They probably saved the
game because he completes that that might have been the.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Game Sam's owned three against the Rams the last two years,
twenty one to four against everybody else. So there is
no question the Rams have his number. And what I
wrote down today twice that Sam saw the receiver late,
his throat was late. And Sam's never had the cleanest mechanics.
(19:33):
He's got a little bit of a little bit of
a hitch. They it's faster than the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's faster than it was four years ago. But Sam
has to see stuff clearly and quickly because he doesn't
snap the ball out like like an Aaron or even
Jordan Love just whips that thing out.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Man.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
That touts down to Christian Watson, he got a bad snap,
he saw it, let it go. It was in the
air a quarter second later. That's not Sam. And two
of the inner Sam saw the play way late, like
it wasn't even close. You know, you'd have thought he'd
been throwing to a Ram, not a Seahawk. So I
think that's the reality is that this right now. I
(20:13):
think Seattle has better speed. I think Seattle's rosters actually
more complete. Like the Rams have a little bit of
a secondary concern. They didn't draft a corner last year.
You and I have discussed this, probably needed to. They
went and got Emmanuel Forbes a longer corner. I thought
he's been pretty good for them, but and we talked
about this, John, I think the last two weeks, the
(20:36):
Rams are the cleanest team in the league. They're not
the most dynamic. They don't have penalties, they don't turn
the ball over, they don't throw interceptions. They're just clean
and in the end, that wins a lot of these games.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Well, like you said about Donald, I think I did
the math. So if you count today, he's twenty one
and six starting last year. I mean, he's been a
great player, but three of those losses to the Rams,
and if you count the playoff game and today he
is five five interceptions, and he was not good in
the playoff game either, because I'm with you, I feel
like they're throwing them off, which then speeds them up,
(21:16):
which gets them all out of rhythm. Because now the
three games in which he's had of those twenty one wins,
he has been an MVP caliber player. Yet if you
take the Lions game and these last two Rams game,
he looks like a rattle player. So it's it's like,
clearly and some of those wins are against really good teams,
so it's not like he's just beating up on you know,
(21:38):
Kentucky's of the world, right, He's doing it against real competition.
So whatever Shula has put out there now and Aaron Glenn,
I do wonder if more people are gonna attempt to
just copycat that. Yes, but it just it's weird because
I was all in the way he was playing that
I watched today. I'm like, clearly, you can do something
to throw him off, and you know, he's It's one
(22:00):
thing if you just you know, you have bad footwork
and you overthrow a guy. It's another thing to hit
multiple dbs in their numbers. That to me is a
really really alarming sign. And I thought he had gotten
past it the way he was playing this year. I'm like,
whatever that confidence is. And then you see a moment
like today and you're like, God, I'll pick at Seattle
to make the super Bowl, and that kind's gonna give
(22:20):
me some pause because there's gonna be a lot of
pressure on this guy in the playoffs again, right hand
down the stretch. He still got some big games left.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, I've said this about Caleb Williams and Bone nicks.
They don't get hurt, they don't throw picks. There is
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high football player that's got a mustache and nobody else
does right. No other player has ever done it once,
so Josh's performance was satisfying, just like the first bite
of the bak and creamy Buffalo mccrispy ah was good.
(24:21):
Let's go to Chicago nineteen Minnesota Viking seventeen Santo's with
the walk off. I did think Chicago. First of all,
Chicago was better on third down, much better. They dominated
time of possession. Caleb had no picks. I thought Chicago.
(24:42):
Oh yeah, I thought Chicago was the better team. This
is not one of these in which.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
They were lucky.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I thought Chicago was the better team. Now, JJ McCarthy
had a couple of drops by Jordan Addison, one early
one late, So it's not all on JJ McCarthy. So
let's just look at the Bears though. So last year
they couldn't win games like this, and this is sort
of the magic of Ben Johnson and Caleb.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
It's not pretty.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
They have a win against the Raiders due to a
block field goal. They beat Washington when Jaden Daniels fumbled
late in the game. Remember nobody touch to be just fumbled.
They had a fifty eight yard TD against the Bengals
after a near collapse. They trailed double ditches in the
fourth quarter of the Giants and one and a game
winning field goal as time expires. Today against the Vikings.
(25:24):
Now you could say it's just luck. You know, I
think Caleb Williams legs aren't luck. He again today he
made two or three. I mean, listen, it's it's a cliche.
Nobody doubts how dynamic he is. Guy's a freakin' He's
a cleanup hitter. I mean, just the legs, the power.
He had a couple throws today. I mean, he's just
(25:44):
when he unleashes it, man, it is.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It wasn't one to DJ Moore. Did DJ drop? I
think it got on DJ so fast that you know,
I think he was trying to catch it, but it
hit his chest played before his hands could even get there.
That had to be a one hundred and ten mile on
hour fastball. That had to be the hart his ball today,
throat I think in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
But I think we have to be honest about this.
JJ McCarthy had one really good drive at the end
and he deserves credit for it. But John, this is
not a highlight league. This is not the NBA. It
is about sustained drives. It is about putting your team
in situations to win. I got to tell you, I
(26:22):
don't know what it is, but when you have Kevin O'Connell,
good protection, decent run game, justin Jefferson, Jordan Adison didn't
he had drops I don't see it with JJ McCarthy,
and I don't want to do confirmation bias. He hasn't
had many starts. His arm is good enough. It's not
an arm thing. He has a decent arm, but he
looks nervous. He's a player that plays I think with
(26:46):
confidence and when he loses it after a second pick.
He had a couple of really bad drives. So he's
obviously somebody who's a bit in his head on this stuff.
Don't blame him, it happens. He's young, but it's it's
hard for me to unsee it. Like when kayleb he
was struggling last year, he wasn't throwing picks. He was
making plays with his feet. You could not deny his athleticism.
(27:07):
Even Greg Cosell kept saying, you know, the tape will
tell you he makes incredible throws. This JJ McCarthy thing
about four more of these and they got a problem
on their hands.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean I think they have JJ. Beside. The
one drive at the end was atrocious. I mean he's
a complete train wreck. I mean balls are flying all
over the mat. I mean he just not even close.
And I think Tom was in a tough position being
a Michigan man trying to not totally crush the kid.
But even Tom's like, I got no clue. There was
a stretch where they did some replays something I don't
even know where he's throwing. I do want to say
(27:40):
this though, that if you just take the two coaches,
you know, if we just did a draft from scratch,
they would be two of the highest guys in the league,
right Ben Johnson Kevin O'Connell. I actually think they're the
polar opposite though, being offensive guys and both former quarterbacks.
Now O'Connell got drafted Ben Johnson think was a backup
in North Carolina. Ben's basically Kyle Shanahan two point zero.
(28:02):
He will run it till the cows come home, and
he makes it. It's a lot easier on Caleb to
be in situations where I'm not putting it all on
your shoulder, because I think Caleb, when he plays like that,
can get a little reckless and start running around. And
because he naturally just plays like that anyway, which he's
incredible a breakout of sacks, I mean, his ability, he's
(28:23):
like unsackable. You have to get multiple guys on him
because he's breaking through. But Ben Johnson day, the majority
of this game was just one score game. This wasn't
like one team's up twenty four to three. Kevin O'Connell
just insists, and I said this last year was Sam
Donald when everyone just took a giant, you know, kind
of dump on Sam Donald's career. It's like he didn't
(28:44):
get any help in that playoff game for his coach, Like,
have some runs, settle the game down. Ben Johnson wants
to run it basically, just three times, get a first down,
run it again. Kevin O'Connell's calling these deep breaking routes.
It's like, Bro, this is not Sam Donald during the
regular season. It's definitely not her cousins. This guy has
no clue where the ball is coming out of his hands.
He throw a pick in the corner of the end
(29:04):
zone on a go route. I don't know why you're
calling go routes for this guy. He's overthrowing guys. If
you're gonna throw some quick stuff, okay, some quick outs
somewhat easy, even though he was missing those two. But
there was one point in time during the first half
that they were averaging almost five yards of carry and
the Bears had like double the amount of carries. If
(29:25):
it was flip flopped Jordan Mason Aaron Jones, they would
have they would have easily both got double the amount
of touches they got. But he insists, and I get it,
he's got these two awesome wide receivers, but that's how
he wants to coach. He wants to throw the ball
vertically down the field, and that is not what this
guy is capable of doing right now, right you know, listen,
(29:46):
Caleb Williams is much better player than JJ, and he
would be quote unquote more capable to do that. But
Ben Johnson and they got wide receivers too, but he's
not gonna play like that. And you got a coach
and I saw on social media it's like, well, you
gotta let him sing swim. The goal of today was
trying to win the game, and this was a winnable
game for both teams. And Ben Johnson to me thoroughly
(30:07):
out coach Kevin O'Connell, because yes, JJ stinks, but his coach,
like in the middle of the game in a one
score game, can help his guy out. And he's insisting
on pushing the ball down the field. And he's blowing
up in his face. Yeah, and I'm not stunned, but
it's like it's a consistent theme now with O'Connell throwing
the ball, you know, with this guy.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
And think about this in the fourth quarter at the
end of the game, John, when they trailed the Bears
got that huge kickoff return, so JJ McCarthy leads him
to a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
You're like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
God, Minnesota's going to get out of this thing.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Look like crap all day.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
They're going to win this game. San Francisco forty one,
Arizona twenty two. Brock pretty played very well, got started
with a sky more kickoff return, and they were off
to the races. I got to I'll say this, I
think Shanahan and Robert Sala. First of all, Arizona was
a mess. They had eleven penalties in the first half.
(31:00):
Harrison didn't play. But I'm gonna give San Francisco credit.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
John.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I'm not sure if any other staff in that the
NFL could overcome It's I texted Saul at the other day.
I was like, bro, you're coaching your ass off because
you have no players left. And Winter, I think is
a very good young player. But I mean my interpretation
watching that game today was, I mean, obviously you can
move a pocket much more with Brock Purdy than mac Jones.
(31:28):
They you know, they're moving the pocket all over the place,
and that's what Brock does very well. But they should
not be beating people forty one to twenty two on
the road.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
I do think one the Cardinals have less like a
star power, but they are as injured as the forty
nine ers and now and the forty nine ers getting purty,
but Piersall back, their offense feels a lot different when
you put Ricky Piersall with Jeningks Kittle and McCaffrey. I
did think it was a delicate situation. I get it,
(31:58):
you paid them, you know, one hundred and eighty million
dollars guaranteed. But how well mac Jones has been playing.
And Kyle was steadfast and like, this is our guy.
When he's ready, we're gonna go. And I said, this
is kind of weird. He's ready, what's been up with
his foot? He's just gonna be one hundred percent. He
looked completely normal. And Kyle the way he handled with
mac Jones, and he gave Mac a lot of credit
to is like.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Kyle's pretty good at quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yes, they're winning a lot of games with Mac. How
many coaches beside like a Andy Reid, could you just
be like, yeah, you're just gonna win ten eleven games,
I don't care what your schedule is. With a banged
up Purdy and Mac Jones, I'd say most teams in
the NFL are winning six seven games, especially with Fred
Warner with a cast on his foot. Nick nick boson
(32:39):
Florida rehabit and ACL. So listen, the Cardinals aren't bad,
but the forty nine ers beat the livin you know what.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Out of thinking about this, Arizona had almost five hundred
yards of offense and averaged seven yards of play and
got the you know what kicked out of them. Arizona
has talent. Arizona is they're just a big time Oh
they're just they all are Indianapolis where you're like, they've
got dudes, they just don't have the quarterback, right, So
(33:06):
you know, I think there is you know, well, I
when I watched the coaching today, especially in the late window,
I had Andy Reid and Sean Payton. You know, today
I've got Kyle Shanahan. I don't know if John Gannon's
a great coach, but Shannan is I've got McVeigh and
Mike McDonald, I got John Harbon Stefanski. I like Stefanski.
(33:31):
I think John the coaching in the NFL today. I
don't think there's ever been this many good young coaches.
I think it's all and I think that jesse Minter
with the Chargers will eventually get something. There'll be a
college guy or too that will pop out. Ryan Day
obviously he's done. This is the best Ohio state. Like
Ohio State. For the first time in my life, it
(33:52):
feels like they've like Bama, they've separated from people like
by a touchdown or so. I think they'll I think
they'll beat Indiana signific I don't know when. I when
I watched Shanahan and Sola, I'm just impressed. I mean,
they've lot They've got eight different guys defensively traded or
not playing on defense.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Well, I think when you look at a lot of
the in the forty nine, Er has been one of
the best teams over the.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Last what five six years.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
You go to the Bills, you know who's the poster
child Mahomes, who's the poster child for the ravens Lamar, right,
you just go around the top teams. There's a couple though,
like the Lions. You kind of think Dan Campbell first. Yeah,
you definitely with the forty nine ers, I mean that
they're they're they're franchise is Kyle Shanahan, you know, I
mean his his importance in getting Robert Sola to come back.
(34:38):
You know, I get asked a lot, do you think
he'll get a head coaching job this year? I just
don't think the candidates, Like, he's definitely gonna get some
interviews probably. I mean, I think Jonathan Gannon is in
major trouble.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Now, I'd also argue that if this was college, I
would view Arizona as one of those jobs, like I
wouldn't touch that job. Like that's just a bad that's
a place where tough to win. Esecially, when you factor
in you're gonna beat Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, and Mike McDonald.
Good luck to you with an owner of that's cheap.
Godspeed guys, because that's I don't think Jonathan Anam's terrible,
(35:10):
but their team's really falling apart now they're not They're
gonna their record's going to be awful. So yeah, I mean,
I listen Kyle this year. We liked him because of
their schedule, but once you had all the injuries, it
could have fallen off the rails fast and deserve a
lot of I think the mac Jones that signing and
resurrecting his career because he listen. I think his value.
(35:31):
It's like, well, would you trade him to the Minnesota Vikings? Yes, no,
I need them, but my problem is what a party
gets hurt? Again, his value to the forty nine ers.
I would for the right price, but I'm not giving
to you for a third round pick. Would you give
me two seconds or something? Because do you want to win?
Or do you do you want to lose? Because you're
gonna lose with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Right, No, I think Minnesota is to play, And I
said it last week on the air, I said I'd
get a third round pick. You're probably right. He's worth
a second and the fourth or a second and the third.
I think it's probably what mac Jones is worth. And
it's always hard to decipher is mac Jones good or
is it maybe just the coach? But I do think
when you watched Mac make throws to a depleted receiving corps.
(36:12):
It was pretty impressive.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
I think. I think one thing too that you know
last year he was injured but changed the forty nine
Ers forever, was that it was between the Rams and
the Niners to get Christian McCaffrey, and it was the
Niners gave a second, a third, and they had to
give that extra fourth to make sure they got him,
and it changed the franchise. And I would say also
doubling down, you know, Kittle was getting a little older.
He's a pretty dominant player. So when you watch those
(36:36):
two guys, they are as good of a tandem as
a running back and tight end as you're gonna see.
I mean they are. They are ass kickers. I mean
they are ass kickers.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I think Kittle had two touchdowns today.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And he's he's just so physical and he's so good
in the run. And McCaffrey, even on some of his
runs that aren't a sexy he's just so physical and
he's so consistent.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Though.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Those guys are just they're Hall of Fame players. I
mean that's that's really what. They're just Hall of Fame players.
They're winning players, and they're guys you know when kind
of you know what's hitting the fan and your backs
are against the wall. They're guys you can lean on.
And that's the Chiefs have had those type guys. You
just need those type guys to be in the trenches with.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yeah, that was one of my That was my second
favorite Blazing five pick. I took San Francisco minus two
and a half. I said, when Shanahan gets blown out,
take the Niners the next week. He's a regular host
of the Josh Pates College Football Show. Totally tied into
college football west coast to east. So years ago I
worked in Portland, Oregon for a spell and Mike Belotti
(37:35):
was the coach, Jeff Tedford was the coordinator. They finished
number two in the nation. One year they got lucky
not having to face Miami. They faced Colorado and they
matched up really well with Colorado and not with Miami
at all. And I think Nebraska played Miami and got
you know, there was like ninety eight percent fans of
the Rose bowlward Nebraska, but Miami kicked the you know
what out of them. So Oregon has used two things
(38:01):
to become a power. One was Phil Knight's creativity and
money to build facilities. When there used to be the
facilities war, right that would used to be a big deal.
Pre NIL, there was about a ten year period it
was an arms race for facilities and Oregon was the forefront.
They've actually used three things ingenuity, one hundred different uniforms
(38:21):
to impress southern col kids to be the cool place.
USC has one uniform, Penn State's got one, Oregon had
a thousand, So they used phil Knight's ingenuity, then phil
Knight's money with facilities, and then third phil Knight's money
with nil where they are the big bidder on the
West coast. Most of my life, when I grew up
(38:43):
in the Northwest, you would think you were going to
land the number three running back in southern California, USC
would get number one, UCLA two, You'd get three, and
then at the last moment he would decide to just
go to USC and be a backup.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But that changed.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Oregon now mostly gets as good a players as anybody
in the West Coast. I think this is an awful
matchup for USC. The teams that beat USC Northwestern actually
ran the ball to them. Iowa can run the ball
at you. Michigan Last year I think Oregon's going to
(39:20):
be hard to block. I think Oregon USC's oline young.
I think Oregon's going to run on them. I think
Oregon's a big playoffense in USC on.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
The back end.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
At corners week, if Oregon and there are a nine
and a half point favorite wins Josh thirty three twenty
one wins by two touchdowns, how do you think we
view I know how we view Oregon, that's been established,
that's an elite program. How are we going to view USC?
(39:51):
Because I think it's a terrible.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Matchup the same way people have been viewing them. I
largely see your way. The one thing I would say is,
you know, coming into last week, if you and I
were to have talked about Pitt Notre Dame, you know,
you could have held up a piece of paper and said,
Pitt's got the number three run defense in the country.
And I would have looked at you and said, Okay,
Notre Dame's going to run right through them. I don't
really care what what paper says. It's lying to me
(40:14):
a little bit. So with this, like Oregon statistically top
three pass defense in the country, but I can tell
you that staff up there supremely respects that Indiana had
a combo of wide receivers come in there and work
them a little bit. USC's got the same combo receivers
that could come in there. And if USC were to
win this game and we look back, that's probably the
reason why. But if that doesn't happen, and if it
(40:37):
goes Oregon's way, it's probably just more the same. Colin,
It's probably you were a head coach that left the
Big twelve to go to the Pac twelve that became
the Big ten, and you really were never going to
be a fit in the Big ten. They hurled these
accusations at Lincoln as to why he didn't take the
LSU job, and he was scared of this, scared of
(40:58):
playing that kind of ball. I don't even care if
there's validity to it, because you didn't ask me what
valid is? You asked me, what are people going to say?
What are people going to think? They're going to throw
around the same accusations, the same pejorative connotations. And the
beauty of like competitive sport is you control that, but
yet it is that way until you change that. So
I see the matchup the same way you do. But
(41:20):
that's that's cool because if we both see it that
way and then they go up there and win stylistically
more a rock fight kind of game, then that's how
you change narratives.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
That's the only way you change narratives.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah, no, there is. I mean I was joking with
Lincoln off the air the other day before we did
our interview. I said, literally, you are being led by
a walk on running back from Calabasas.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
He said.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
He said, only at USC you fight a kid in
your backyard who's almost as good as any running back
you faced all year. No, they're the thing I always
go back to, Like Pete Carroll takes over the Raiders
and their defense is bad. That always worries me, like
you can't get your side of the ball right. Lincoln's
(42:09):
offenses have been money and the fact that he's doing
with a walk on running back. And for some of
the year, one receiver Lemon's been the really good key
receiver that's always been healthy. Deuce Robinson left went to
Florida State. You know, guys have transferred out. It's kind
of been a one receiver offense for a lot of
the seats. They don't have the supreme tight end talent.
(42:30):
Lake mccree's okay, three star kit. He's fine, not a
pro so, but it is. I will say this USC's
I'll give Jen Cohen the eighty credit. It's a really
distracted market and money gets splintered into movies and second
homes and tech companies and pro sports season tickets. It's
(42:54):
hard to galvanize Los Angeles like the Dodgers do, the
Lakers do, and yet there's the Angels and the Clippers.
It it's just it's hard. It's hard to stay to yourself.
It's the biggest economy in the country and Baton Rouge isn't.
But everybody knows in Baton Rouge, if you have money,
if you have two nickels drove together, you're giving them
(43:15):
to LSU football. I think it's much harder than people
think in Los Angeles. It's an incredibly distracted market. And
more so, remember when Pete Carroll was there, Josh, there
was no NFL in the city.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah, yeah, the media either, man, So like it's a
whole new world.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
And the Dodgers weren't the best organization in North America.
Like Pete was there. And when Pete was there, if
you won, your regular season games. Yeah, there was no semifinal.
H you won the Pac twelve, you went to the
Rose Bull So I don't know. I think I said today,
there's four or five programs in the country that have
an advantage for national championships. Georgia, Ohio State, University of Florida,
(43:57):
I don't love the governor, but probably LSU. And I mean,
and I said, I would say Oregon, but there's no
players in the state. And then I think there's six
of them Bama in the new anil world. They don't
have a lot of money and that changes things. They
don't look like like Oregon can go buy players from
the state of Bama. Bama is going to have a
(44:18):
hard time getting them out of Oregon. The Forregan wants
them that that wasn't the case four years ago. So
I mean, I I've said this to friends. They don't
want to hear it. I said, USC is not Ohio
State in this new world, and they're not Georgia and
they're not Florida. It's a it's it's it's another thing.
Josh costs three million dollars minimum to buy a home
(44:40):
and a nice neighborhood with good schools, the assistant, the linebacker.
Coach is making five fifty. You can't afford to buy
a home. How do you view USC as an elite?
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
What are you?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
What is your mount Rushmore for best jobs, money commitment,
state with players, donors control their history.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Georgia has always been They've been to my number one
for a while.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
If you were to promise me alignment at LSU, I
put LSU right up there. Ohio State's way up there
for me. Ohio State. Whatever you think about Ohio athletes,
I mean, there's like a proud tradition of high school
athletes there. Ohio State has zero problem going into South Florida,
I mean, zero problem whatsoever. So I put Ohio State
up there. You'd have to check, like which period of
(45:29):
time it is. But Texas conditionally is up there, same same,
But what's changed.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Over the past, just like.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
What's evolving right now in front of us is Texas
A and M. Because Texas A and M has just
been it's been like this stack of wood, but it's
been wet historically, meaning they well, post Johnny manziel A
and M is a totally different world. If you went
on that campus pre manzel and then you went back.
Now you don't even recognize it. So they they leveraged one.
(45:59):
They leveraged Manzel better than Auburn leveraged cam Newton, like
they leveraged him so hard, so effectively. So I'd say
them as well, but with USC. So to go back
to what you were talking about for a second, I
remember I was way younger. I was like in school
when the Pete Carroll era happens out there, and we
were enamored with them. We hated them in the South,
(46:19):
but like we were enamored with them. You remember that
trip they made to Auburn and they shut Auburn out
to start a season. The entire South, even people who
hated Auburn in the South, they waited for that date.
They circled that date because it was going to be
like a culture clash and the South's culture was going
to rise. You can't come into Southern eat and do that.
And then of course they did. But I remember thinking
(46:42):
back then that I as it never made sense to
me as a kid growing up in the South, immersed
in college football and that being the culture. When people
would say what you just said about LA, I had
never left the South.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
So to me.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
I just assumed that all the big time college football
programs and the towns slash hid they were in were
like Athens, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Tuscaloose, Alabama, Knoxville, Tennessee. That's
just the way I thought it worked. And I thought
when people said, boy, there's a lot to distract you
out there, there's a lot more going on in LA,
I thought it was excuse making. So you know, since then,
I've been able to travel, I've been able to go
(47:17):
out there, and it just it slaps you in the
face when you go out there. I feel the same
about Miami to a certain extent when I go to Miami,
when I go to LA. If you just drive around
for a day, be in town for seventy two or
ninety six hours, and ask yourself, does this feel different?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
It feels way different.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
And you just ask, like, how much more difficult must
it be to capture this place's imagination? Therefore, to capture
the wallet, to capture the emotional and financial investment, then
it must be in Baton rouge or in college station.
And that's the challenge.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Now.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
The trade off is if you've got it, you've got it.
But if you don't have it, they're not going to
help you get it. So you got to go in
there and you got to do it on your own.
Whoever is about to take the Florida Gator job, they'll
have the full weight and full support of that community.
Lincoln took the LA job, and it's like, this is great.
We'll check back in a little while. If he's winning,
(48:12):
we may show up. And if they're really winning, we
may even give a dollar or two.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
I talked today.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
I was talking to Joel Klatt about this. I said,
the best defenses I've ever seen in college football. The
Huskies with Steve Etman in the early nineties just bulldozed people.
They brought in the four to six and nobody knew
how they brought it from the Bears, and the whole
college football for a year did not know how to
attack Washington. I mean they literally every game just it
(48:48):
was over in the box. You couldn't get downfield, and
they had NFL safeties and corners. So for about a year.
Then there's the USC defense was really good with Pete
Carroll where Clay Matthews didn't start at linebacker, and then
it was NFF NFC Rookie of the Year. Defensively, it
couldn't start for USC. Then there was there were a
couple of I always loved. There was it the Rolando McLain,
(49:11):
the linebacker for Bama. It was the one that beat Texas.
I was like, man, they hit different. There were a
couple of Saban defenses that were and there was a
Georgia defense, a couple with a Jalen Carter.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
So there's been about four or.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Five that I've watched and gone, oh, that doesn't look
like that's somewhere between Saturday and Sunday football. It's not Sunday,
but it's close. Ohio State has an advantage none of
those had.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
It used to.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Be even Nick Saban, you'd have a hole in your
defense and you'd go to junior college and he was
never quite as good as the ranking. You have the
number two corner in junior college and you're like, he's
probably their best corner. But he solves a dilemma. Well,
now you just go buy the best corner. If you're
Ohio State and you're like, we need to be better
at corner, We're just gonna go buy the number one
(49:56):
guy who're already in the sport and crushing, and I
look at this Ohio State defense and again I want
to see him play out and who they play Josh.
The windows to complete passes are Sunday windows, like they're
when even when Knicks teams were great, you'd have a
corner like d Milner, who wasn't really a great corner,
(50:16):
he was great with a Knicks system. They got two
players that could go top five. They have another two
that could go fifteen between the fifteenth pick in the
third and the second round. What do you make of
just forget Ohio State, just what you've seen from their defense.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
It really boggles your mind a little bit because of
what conventional wisdom would have told you. Conventional wisdom, like
we all watched twenty twenty four Ohio State in that
stretch run, and you know in the back of your
mind or you think you know they're making this run
because of all this senior veteran talent, Like they're going
to lose all these guys. Their entire defensive front's going
(50:59):
to be gone, and we didn't even know Jim Knowles
was going to be gone. But they also lose the
coordinator and so like, just say that out loud, you
had had anybody. I don't care who it is, Ohio
State or anyone else. They are powered by their defensive front.
Entire defensive fronts wiped out, and coordinator's gone as well.
Not to mention, you're just coming off a national championship,
(51:20):
so there's that natural propensity to get a little complacent,
maybe come back to earth a little bit. Everyone's gunning
for you the next year. The bet I don't know
if the team overall is better, the defense looks better,
I don't know how that even happens. Matt Patricia came
in and here's one of the early warning signs. I
remember when Ryan Day got elevated there, and I remember,
(51:40):
you know, Ohio State is Ohio State, so they could
do a national search if they want to. They can
go land most any head coach they want. And they said, no,
the guy we need is already here. And I remember
some people looked at it and said, that's crazy. They're
cheating themselves by not doing this. Not do it, And
I looked at it and I said, they're not stupid.
They know what they have in the building. Just because
(52:01):
you don't know who Ryan Day is doesn't mean they
don't well It's the same way when Ryan Day needed
to fill that defensive coordinator role. There are guys who
would leave really good jobs to be the DC at
Ohio State, and he went and got Matt Patricia. That's
not a name that would have been on anyone's radar.
You take the biggest industry insider, give me your top ten.
Matt Patricia's not on it. And Ryan goes and hires him.
(52:25):
And you see why like hiring, I mean, it comes
down the players making plays. But if you can staff
properly in college football and you have top fifteen talent,
let alone what they have, you're going to be really
hard to beat. Now that doesn't make him invincible, but
what you're talking about is there's gonna have to be
a team if Ohio State gets eliminated that puts together
such an air tight like tight rope walk, performance, precision, poise, accuracy,
(52:51):
no turnovers. That's what it's gonna take. That's what it
used to take to beat those saving teams. It took
some insane performance. Somebody just plays out of his mind,
and if that that happens, you tip your cat to
the other side. Short of that happening, Ohio State's going
to win the national championship.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Well in the other thing is the way to beat
Saban was Manzell or cam It was generally somebody that
could go off script that Nick couldn't prepare for. He
just there's nothing you could do. I mean, if Nick
knew you were in the pocket, you could go back
and look at this. I'm not sure he lost three
times if he knew we're going to be That's why
I think Ohio State beats Indiana because you know where
(53:27):
Mendoz is going to be. The way to beat Ohio
State or a great defense.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
Is, oh shit, Josh Allen.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I mean, never forget what Josh Allen did to Belichick
when Belichick was in New England. Bill couldn't do anything.
So the only quarterback that Bill's ever faced, even Peyton Manning,
he gave some trouble to He could do nothing with
Josh Allen because Josh, especially when he was young, about
sixty percent of his game was offscript. That was Manziel,
that was Camp. Those are the kind of guys that
(53:56):
just off script guys gave Saban trouble. And Mendoza is
a classic big arm pocket guy. And the other thing
is you could beat Nick if you got to lead
in the second half and his defense had to cheat
a little or guess right, Like if they could dictate terms,
(54:19):
Saban squeezed you out like a towel. But if you
made Nick trailed, Nick now was taking some risk defensively.
I've got to get the ball back. We've got to
generate pressure with extra people. I think if Ohio State
leads in the second half, you're in big trouble. If
you have to throw against that. I think you can
the way to beat great defensive teams in college off
(54:40):
script and you force them to take risks they normally
wouldn't take because you lead late.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
I think another thing that happened like with Deshaun Watson
Clemson teams when they played.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
Bandage another one. Yeah, it's just that.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Was that the I'm not saying it's the first time
you ever saw anyone run tempo, but it was still
that early period. Like Malzon comes into this to the
picture and like guys are running tempo as the foundational
aspect of their offense for the first time. So the game,
like the rules hadn't shortened the game yet either with
the clock rules. Clemson ran over one hundred offensive plays
(55:15):
in one of those National.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Pampionship games, so I'd rarely seen Bama defense on the
field for trevorly Lawrence. Yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
Ran down the sideline against Alabama. I think it was
Alabama ran down the side again Trevor and DeShawn. It
was off script plays that beat Bama, not just the
pocket stuff.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
That's why like that, just you don't run that many
plays anymore. So that's another thing that's taken out of
the toolbox. See what you're saying is why I'm really
interested how Marcel Reed would play against them, Mike, Marcel,
We're coming off the worst half of football we'll ever
see him play in his life, followed by one of
the best. So that's it's a little weird timing. But
(55:54):
you know, when you talk about matchups, people always misunderstand
you intentionally.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
There was, oh, you think A and M is better
than No Highest. No one said that, dude.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
What I did say is, out of all the matchups
they could draw in the postseason, yeah, that's the one
that would get my attention the most because that's the
one that.
Speaker 3 (56:09):
Would probably keep them up the night at night the longest.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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extra extra. Something's going on here, all right. Former NFL scout.
(01:08):
You know. It was John Middlecoff. His podcast is three
and out. He is everywhere during the football season, and
my Blazing five is on a freaking heater four and
oh today, I couldn't get a break in September, I'm
getting every break. When Shador Sanders came in, I was like, wait,
Cleveland Leeds sixteen to ten. I've got the Browns plus
(01:29):
eight and a half, just no pick sixes. And he
actually had a nice, like final dry little spin move
throwing the ends on you. Okay, I was It was
really entertaining. So let's start Denver twenty two Kansas City nineteen.
So the Broncos are now nine and two. The Chiefs
are a five hundred team. They're a hell of a
five hundred team. Kansas City's a good team. Bo Nicks
(01:51):
twenty four to thirty seven, two ninety five. Again no
big mistakes. What's interesting against Spags in that defense, John,
you know, really struggled. But they for the first time
in nine weeks, they scored on their opening drive and
it was as if Bow and Sean found a rhythm,
certainly on enough drives to get field goals that they
(02:13):
hadn't had. But it was one of those games when
you watched Sam Darnold unravel and you watched a lot
of quarterbacks. Today there was some ugly quarterback play. This
is where Boonix is really good. He doesn't take sacks,
he can move the chains with his legs. He's really
good in these big fourth quarter drives. I know he
drives everybody nuts, but there is something to be said
(02:36):
about today against Mahomes, milking that clock, making that big
throw down the stretch. Well, it's your interpretation of Nixon
what you saw today.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah, I mean that final drive was huge, right, he
had two third downs third and fifteen when he scrambled
to his right. They need to get him on the
move more often, I think sometimes same. They've really tried
to push the ball down the field. And even today
some of his a lot of his incompletion, because his
numbers look good, are on the deep ball. He was
not skipping balls like he did whatever a Thursday a
week ago. It was that deep ball. He's still overthrowing it,
(03:09):
but he was. He's good on the move. And then
the third and five that sudden made the play, and
then that second and eight which essentially sealed the game.
So three enormous passes. I actually thought when Kelsey scored, saying,
I mean Travis Kelsey and Chris Jones. I mean, you
talk about these guys, I mean you knew they would
bring it. They both of them dominated today. I thought
(03:30):
that that second time that when Mems on the when
returned that punt and they were in the red zone
and they didn't come out of with touchdown, like I
think they're gonna look back and God, they're gonna be
kicking themselves on that one, and he just he found
a way. I mean their defense is both these defense,
I mean these are how about that could be the
AFC Championship game right there.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
John, how about the late window Cleveland's defense, Ram Seattle, Denver,
Kansas City And Robert sala is doing an unfricking believable
job with nobody he's gotten. You know, Winter's a good
player that kids everywhere. But no, I kind of look
at this game and I think the Chiefs were eleven
(04:10):
and oh or twelve and oh last year and one
possession games and their own five. And my takeaway on
that isn't that they were eleven and oh, not just that,
but why are they in so many close games. And
I think you see this with Buffalo. You start paying
these quarterbacks four hundred million dollars and John, you look
at Buffalo's defense, it's really okay, it's just okay. It's
(04:30):
got a couple splash players. You look at Kansas City,
you know they don't have much of a run game.
Kelsey again rises to the moment. Chris Jones has not
had a good year. He had a good day today.
But I think it's the reality is when you know,
when you start looking at roster Seattle where they're paying
Sam very very workable. Wait, Indianapolis, Daniel Jones, it looks
(04:53):
it's unbelievable roster. So you know some of it with
Kansas City is this is the reality. Remember and Drew
Brees was in New Orleans. He took a big salary
and they dipped for two years and then he took
a team friendly deal at the end and they have
great rosters. With Sean Payton. How much credit do you give,
you know, Sean Payton's funny. I think he's the best
(05:13):
coach in football. Nobody wants to admit it's a great
coach because he's a little he can be a little
bit of a smart ass. But John, they're still paying
Russell Wilson and this roster is stacked.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Where I give them a lot of credit is remember
when they gave they had that game his first year
where they played Miami and gave up seventy points and
there was so much momentum, and you went, this Vance
Joseph thing is just not going to work. And you
look back a couple of years later, they have a
potential all time defense. I mean, they might break the
sacks record. The blitz he called. You just talked about
(05:46):
defensive coordinators. I mean the amount if you combine the
salaries of the defensive coordinators in the late window, I
mean's a lot of money the treas are getting paid.
That blitz that he called, did sack Patrick Mahomes, I
mean that was that was big times. Sometimes you got
to mix it up again. It's an all time great
player and kind of confuse him. I mean you're playing
I mean the coaching quarterback combination one of, if not
(06:07):
the greatest combination of all time. So Vance Joseph, to
me deserves They played the Chiefs really well now two
years in a row, and they're missing their best defensive players.
So obviously you know Sean and you know he's he's
been very i would say consistent on bo Nicks. He's
kept his mouth shut when he's really struggled because he
doesn't want this guy to go into the tank. And
(06:28):
they I think the team is just kind of, you know,
stood by his back because whatever. That Thursday night game
was pretty ugly. I mean, that was that was as
bad as it got. And today you get a little
extra time. I think Romo mentioned it that they spend
a lot of time just kind of getting back to
the basics, like getting in and out of the huddle.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
You know, I think sometimes you think it's like you
get rushed. It's like getting in out of the huddle.
Bo Nicks was saying, coach, you're getting me the plays
too late. And they worked on like stuff that you
don't even think. But that's sometimes you've got to take
a step back before you worry about like what's up
with his accurate See, well, if he's all rattled and
all this other shit, then you're already screwed before you
even started.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's what we saw with Kayleb Williams in the first
three weeks. His operational stuff was a mess. Now he's
still not pretty, but that's not the problem. He may struggle,
but the operational stuff. I do think with bow Nicks,
he's a really tightly wound guy. He's very intense, and
so I think Sean was adding to that anxiety by
(07:25):
getting it in late. And you and I had talked
about this the last couple of weeks. He played nervous,
and I think now we look at it and we're like, Oh,
that's why he's a tightly wound guy. He's incredibly hard
on himself. I talked to somebody who knew him before
the season. They're like, that kid is hard on himself,
like a little like Lamar Jackson, just doesn't savor wins
(07:45):
like losses are crushing. And so then Shawn's getting the
plays in late. Sean's demanding so early in the season.
And Shawn's never been a great September coach anyway, because
he just unloads the playbook on him. But I thought
today bo less frenetic. I thought that final drive was like,
I mean, John, that was a little Jaden Daniels of
last year. You're like, Wow, that's a that's a Pro
(08:07):
Bowl level drive. Like two big throws and they just
the way Sean and Bo milked the clock. I mean
that that. I mean even when Romo and Nance said
at the end, they're like, hey, if the Chiefs don't
make a tackle here, get down at the one, and
they didn't. Peyton and Bo had thought it out. They
just took a knee. They were not going to let
(08:28):
Kansas City control it. They took a knee.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And you know, I.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Don't think I don't think Kansas City's a bad team.
I just think the margins get really skinny when you
pay Kelsey Jones Mahomes. I mean, the hell they had
to get rid of Joe Toney, you know, just this
is the reality of having a four hundred million dollars quarterback.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
The other thing is this when you go to five
Super Bowls in six years, and I think the year
you missed it, you lost in the AFC Championship Game.
Where are you drafting every round? You know, twenty nine, thirty,
thirty one, thirty two. And that's not just the first
We're talking the third and the fourth round. So your margin, Ferrera,
You're not getting the pick of the litter each round, right,
This isn't like the second round you get to pick
(09:09):
the four best players that are still on the board
in the thirties or early forties. You're picking at the
end at sixty. So the pressure on Beach in the
scouting staff is really really high, and I think that's
why they were kind of hesitant to make a bold trade,
because you need the picks, and especially, like, let's face it,
Kelsey and Chris Jones are coming down the home stretch here, right,
(09:29):
so these guys, they're no longer seventeen game elite guy.
They give you, however, many games during the regular season,
hopefully the playoff games, but like you are gonna need
to make some hay in the draft. But even this year,
let's say they end up going ten and seven because
they got some winnable games on their schedule. Let's just
say this the year they get bounced in the first round,
they're still it's not like they're drafted seven. They're still
(09:50):
drafted twenty first, so they are just you know, sometimes,
you know, the Ravens have had a good little stretch
here of the Starks and the Wiggins, and they've hit
it like there's a little dumb luck to that because
a lot OF's out of your control, right, the guy
you want. You see this year with Johad Campbell being
there for Howie, some years that guy goes pick sixteen
and you're just like, we don't really like any of
these picks. It's why historically you get a lot of
(10:12):
the good teams, John Schneider, Belichick, they would go back, yes,
because like, we just don't feel comfortable here. And it
just it's very draft dependent. I watched a lot of
college football. I'm like, I don't know how many blue
Chippers are in this upcoming draft. Definitely not when the
you know a lot of these teams in the twenties
are going to be draft so it just puts a
lot of pressure and the Chiefs put them I think
coach Reid and Patrick will be the first. They put
(10:33):
themselves into a hole. You start zero and two, you
lose that crazy Jags game. You shouldn't be like on
tilt in the middle of November on the road at
an eight and two team, Well, right, that the season
shouldn't and it's the season technically not on the line,
but the division streaks over tonight, the Broncos essentially won
the division in icon. They malade the Commanders next, and
then the Raiders yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So I had picked Denver to win this division. I
picked Kansas City had finished second, Chargers third, and Raiders four.
So I've had a good year on picks and pretty
good year. I picked New England to be my shocking
team in Seattle to make the playoffs. It's been a
good football and pro football year for me. But one
of the things I had I really believe about Kansas
City is that when you look at the Chiefs, a
(11:22):
lot of the reality of playing these big, intense seasons
is there's a fatigue. It's more hits you end up having.
I mean, I guess just kind of the way I
look at Kansas City's run is like how I looked
at New England is that before the season, I said
(11:44):
the dynasty's over, and I said they'll make the playoffs.
They'll probably win another Super Bowl or two, but you
just can't keep doing it. The eye test tells you
that defense two years ago was faster than now, and
Chris Jones was more dominating. When you take Chris Jones
out of his prime and like Kelsey, Wh'll give you
great games but not a great season, that defense isn't
(12:09):
the same John. It's like it's like the Rams got
lucky when Donald left or when Aaron Donald left, because
they had drafted and hit on like five different defensive
players in the box. So the defense about a year
after we left are like, oh hell, it's still nasty.
But they hit on five defensive picks. Five of them
were all even the third round. Kobe Turner was good.
(12:31):
But when Chris Jones the last two years, especially this year,
isn't as dominant. The rest of the players are good players,
and so they had to let go of Snead at corner.
And they have a couple guys get dinged up. And
when I watch them play today, it's still well coached.
That's still good. But Seattle's defense or the Rams defense today,
just turn the sound down. The Rams defense is just
(12:52):
there's nothing open anywhere. There's stuff open today that bo
Nicks and Peyton took advantage of.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I mean, part of it is in Belichick and Brady.
You know, in the middle of I guess the late
two thousands, early twenty tens, you got to start hitting
on some the new group of guys, right, they got
high Tower, they got mccordy, right, they got all these
other players to come in. Obviously, Edelman became a consistent loot.
They hit on Gronk in the second round. The Chiefs
are gonna have to do that over the next couple
(13:20):
of years, and they kind of already have. You know,
she Rice a high end player. Say if you're worthy,
they're gonna need more out of him. They got McDuffie
and Karl Loftis on defense. You need to hit on
a couple more guys. But listen, I think they've proven
they know what they're doing. This is just not the
Belichick and Brady had some years where they lost in
the first round. Remember that the Rex Ryan beat him, the
Ravens beat him, Peyton got him a couple of times.
(13:41):
Like you're not gonna go to the super Bowl five
and six years. I'd be stunned if that ever happens again.
I'm not with the parody the way the league's built.
But the Broncos they're gonna be in a position, you
know now, they're in the driver's seat to get the
number one seed, right because the Colts, I mean, are
they just going to keep rattling off wins? I think
the Broncos, you look at their schedule, it's pretty easy.
(14:03):
I do believe if they could get home field advantage,
that's gonna be a very very tough place to win,
you know, for opposing teams to come in with that defense,
and they just need bo Nicks to play like today,
no turnovers. We don't need three four touchdowns a game.
You go back to some of the defenses that you know,
people like in the eighties and the nineties, in the
early two thousands, we don't need three touchdowns, Like, just
(14:25):
do not turn the ball over. Maybe throw one, we'll
rush for one, and we will win this thing. Seventeen
to thirteen, no problem.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Don't forget Denver at home in January, it will be snowing,
so that defense will be even nastier because it's going
to be windy at high altitude in snowing. Seattle loses
to the Rams. Rams twenty one Seahawks nineteen. Pretty remarkable
that with four Sam Darnold interceptions Seattle, which I again
(14:53):
I think their rosters, I think defensively, they got so
many dudes. First of all, these these two defenses, there's
just nothing I felt bad for Sam Darnald. There's just
if a ball gets tipped in the err, it's picked.
There's just this very little. I mean, thank God for JS,
and it's just hard to have plays. It's hard to
have successive plays against the Rams defense that hit. You
can hit one and then it's backwards. So but I
(15:17):
was thinking about this because the Rams jump out to
it very quickly. That's very impressive, and then they have
to hold on. But I was, you know they Here's
the thing that jumped out me. The Rams defense in
the red zone. Number one, if you didn't watch the game,
the Rams defense in the red zone kept forcing Seattle
into field goals. So that was the early portion of
(15:40):
the game. The second portion was they kept intercepting Sam Donald.
But this struck me during the game. If Stafford would
have thrown four picks, Seattle would have blown the Rams out,
would have blown their doors off. How can Seattle stay
with them? And my takeaway is this, Matt Stafford, John
is play call reliant. He is as good as they call,
(16:01):
right Sam's not. If the play breaks down, Sam can
create a second play, sometimes a third with his legs.
The weakness with the Rams because there is no weakness defensively.
Their corners aren't great. But Forbes, now, Emmanuel Forbes in
is playing really well. He's a nice corner, probably a
number two corner, but he's a good corner. Their safeties
(16:21):
are good, their pass rush. Stafford's not giving you anything
off the play call. Now, he can get in and
out of stuff pre snap, but if the play breaks
down or it's just stuffed, the play's over. I feel
like with Darnold. I mean, when Matt Stafford is reckless
and has a bad day, Rams get hammered, but Seattle
doesn't because you know, they dominate time of possession. Got
(16:44):
in the second and third quarter. Seattle had the ball
for twenty minutes, the Rams had it for three. I
mean again, there is such a value to having an
athletic cornerback that can just create a second play if
the first play gets snuffed.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
That's my thing.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I love Stafford, but with him and Goff, you do
not get a second play within a play call. The
play call is what the play call is. And I
thought it was remarkable that Seattle was kicking a game
winning field goal.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
I thought it was.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Unbelievable if they would have. If Seattle wins this game,
I don't think Sean McVay could have slept all week.
You can't pick a guy off four times and lose
that game. I mean there at one point in time,
it felt like the Ram for in complete control and
I looked down and Matt Stafford had thrown for like
sixty yards. I'm like, something, this feels weird. He ended
(17:36):
up only throwing for one hundred and thirty yards. Sam
Donald threw for almost.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Three hundred yards.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I mean he threw for two hundred eighty yards. Mac
Jones is thrown for six hundred and fifty yards combined
against the Rams, which is ironic because you can throw
on him. But their defensive coordinator, I think we have
to have some ownage over Sam Donald because some of
those picks aren't tip balls. They're hitting guys in the numbers.
So he rattled them in the playoff game when they
(18:01):
had to play it in Glendale because the Fires, and
then he rattled them again today really bad. It was
the first time. Like he's still making some explosive plays,
the one play the jaysnkle with one hand, and obviously
the running backs make some big plays, but like if
you're gonna I mean, he did not have a touchdown today,
and he threw four interceptions, and I mean I three
off the top of my head. Are hitting guys in
stride the one where he did like the t bow
(18:22):
jump up and he just hit the guy. It's like that,
can't that looked a little Jets Carolina Panthers. Yeah, I
think Chris Sula, who is Sean mcvay's handpick guy, their
buddies from college, has just come. It's like a matchup thing.
See this in basketball. You see sometimes in baseball with
a pitcher versus hitter Chris Sula against Sam Darnold because
(18:42):
it's not even a koobia thing because they had a
different offensive coordinator last year in the playoffs where was
Ryan Grubb. It's something he's doing to Sam is throwing
them off with some of these looks because they do
not have Jalen Ramsey and some of these guys back
there in the defensive backfield, these are not like their
strength is the pass rush, not the corners. Even though
the guy they just traded for did make a great play,
(19:03):
that would have been a Sam Donald maybe underthrew him
by what he yes, eight inches and the guy made
a great play with his fingertips. They probably saved the
game because he completes that that might have been the.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Game Sam's owned three against the Rams the last two years,
twenty one to four against everybody else. So there is
no question the Rams have his number. And what I
wrote down today twice that Sam saw the receiver late,
his throat was late. And Sam's never had the cleanest mechanics.
(19:33):
He's got a little bit of a little bit of
a hitch. They it's faster than the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's faster than it was four years ago. But Sam
has to see stuff clearly and quickly because he doesn't
snap the ball out like like an Aaron or even
Jordan Love just whips that thing out.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Man.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
That touts down to Christian Watson, he got a bad snap,
he saw it, let it go. It was in the
air a quarter second later. That's not Sam. And two
of the inner Sam saw the play way late, like
it wasn't even close. You know, you'd have thought he'd
been throwing to a Ram, not a Seahawk. So I
think that's the reality is that this right now. I
(20:13):
think Seattle has better speed. I think Seattle's rosters actually
more complete. Like the Rams have a little bit of
a secondary concern. They didn't draft a corner last year.
You and I have discussed this, probably needed to. They
went and got Emmanuel Forbes a longer corner. I thought
he's been pretty good for them, but and we talked
about this, John, I think the last two weeks, the
(20:36):
Rams are the cleanest team in the league. They're not
the most dynamic. They don't have penalties, they don't turn
the ball over, they don't throw interceptions. They're just clean
and in the end, that wins a lot of these games.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Well, like you said about Donald, I think I did
the math. So if you count today, he's twenty one
and six starting last year. I mean, he's been a
great player, but three of those losses to the Rams,
and if you count the playoff game and today he
is five five interceptions, and he was not good in
the playoff game either, because I'm with you, I feel
like they're throwing them off, which then speeds them up,
(21:16):
which gets them all out of rhythm. Because now the
three games in which he's had of those twenty one wins,
he has been an MVP caliber player. Yet if you
take the Lions game and these last two Rams game,
he looks like a rattle player. So it's it's like,
clearly and some of those wins are against really good teams,
so it's not like he's just beating up on you know,
(21:38):
Kentucky's of the world, right, He's doing it against real competition.
So whatever Shula has put out there now and Aaron Glenn,
I do wonder if more people are gonna attempt to
just copycat that. Yes, but it just it's weird because
I was all in the way he was playing that
I watched today. I'm like, clearly, you can do something
to throw him off, and you know, he's It's one
(22:00):
thing if you just you know, you have bad footwork
and you overthrow a guy. It's another thing to hit
multiple dbs in their numbers. That to me is a
really really alarming sign. And I thought he had gotten
past it the way he was playing this year. I'm like,
whatever that confidence is. And then you see a moment
like today and you're like, God, I'll pick at Seattle
to make the super Bowl, and that kind's gonna give
(22:20):
me some pause because there's gonna be a lot of
pressure on this guy in the playoffs again, right hand
down the stretch. He still got some big games left.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, I've said this about Caleb Williams and Bone nicks.
They don't get hurt, they don't throw picks. There is
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This week's Crunch Time performer, brought to you by McDonald's
New Buffalo Ranch Sauce, is Josh Allen best football player
(23:57):
in the world second time in his career. Three passing touchdowns,
three rushing touchdowns in one game. It's like that junior
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so Josh's performance was satisfying, just like the first bite
of the bak and creamy Buffalo mccrispy ah was good.
(24:21):
Let's go to Chicago nineteen Minnesota Viking seventeen Santo's with
the walk off. I did think Chicago. First of all,
Chicago was better on third down, much better. They dominated
time of possession. Caleb had no picks. I thought Chicago.
(24:42):
Oh yeah, I thought Chicago was the better team. This
is not one of these in which.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
They were lucky.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I thought Chicago was the better team. Now, JJ McCarthy
had a couple of drops by Jordan Addison, one early
one late, So it's not all on JJ McCarthy. So
let's just look at the Bears though. So last year
they couldn't win games like this, and this is sort
of the magic of Ben Johnson and Caleb.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
It's not pretty.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
They have a win against the Raiders due to a
block field goal. They beat Washington when Jaden Daniels fumbled
late in the game. Remember nobody touch to be just fumbled.
They had a fifty eight yard TD against the Bengals
after a near collapse. They trailed double ditches in the
fourth quarter of the Giants and one and a game
winning field goal as time expires. Today against the Vikings.
(25:24):
Now you could say it's just luck. You know, I
think Caleb Williams legs aren't luck. He again today he
made two or three. I mean, listen, it's it's a cliche.
Nobody doubts how dynamic he is. Guy's a freakin' He's
a cleanup hitter. I mean, just the legs, the power.
He had a couple throws today. I mean, he's just
(25:44):
when he unleashes it, man, it is.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It wasn't one to DJ Moore. Did DJ drop? I
think it got on DJ so fast that you know,
I think he was trying to catch it, but it
hit his chest played before his hands could even get there.
That had to be a one hundred and ten mile on
hour fastball. That had to be the hart his ball today,
throat I think in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
But I think we have to be honest about this.
JJ McCarthy had one really good drive at the end
and he deserves credit for it. But John, this is
not a highlight league. This is not the NBA. It
is about sustained drives. It is about putting your team
in situations to win. I got to tell you, I
(26:22):
don't know what it is, but when you have Kevin O'Connell,
good protection, decent run game, justin Jefferson, Jordan Adison didn't
he had drops I don't see it with JJ McCarthy,
and I don't want to do confirmation bias. He hasn't
had many starts. His arm is good enough. It's not
an arm thing. He has a decent arm, but he
looks nervous. He's a player that plays I think with
(26:46):
confidence and when he loses it after a second pick.
He had a couple of really bad drives. So he's
obviously somebody who's a bit in his head on this stuff.
Don't blame him, it happens. He's young, but it's it's
hard for me to unsee it. Like when kayleb he
was struggling last year, he wasn't throwing picks. He was
making plays with his feet. You could not deny his athleticism.
(27:07):
Even Greg Cosell kept saying, you know, the tape will
tell you he makes incredible throws. This JJ McCarthy thing
about four more of these and they got a problem
on their hands.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean I think they have JJ. Beside. The
one drive at the end was atrocious. I mean he's
a complete train wreck. I mean balls are flying all
over the mat. I mean he just not even close.
And I think Tom was in a tough position being
a Michigan man trying to not totally crush the kid.
But even Tom's like, I got no clue. There was
a stretch where they did some replays something I don't
even know where he's throwing. I do want to say
(27:40):
this though, that if you just take the two coaches,
you know, if we just did a draft from scratch,
they would be two of the highest guys in the league,
right Ben Johnson Kevin O'Connell. I actually think they're the
polar opposite though, being offensive guys and both former quarterbacks.
Now O'Connell got drafted Ben Johnson think was a backup
in North Carolina. Ben's basically Kyle Shanahan two point zero.
(28:02):
He will run it till the cows come home, and
he makes it. It's a lot easier on Caleb to
be in situations where I'm not putting it all on
your shoulder, because I think Caleb, when he plays like that,
can get a little reckless and start running around. And
because he naturally just plays like that anyway, which he's
incredible a breakout of sacks, I mean, his ability, he's
(28:23):
like unsackable. You have to get multiple guys on him
because he's breaking through. But Ben Johnson day, the majority
of this game was just one score game. This wasn't
like one team's up twenty four to three. Kevin O'Connell
just insists, and I said this last year was Sam
Donald when everyone just took a giant, you know, kind
of dump on Sam Donald's career. It's like he didn't
(28:44):
get any help in that playoff game for his coach, Like,
have some runs, settle the game down. Ben Johnson wants
to run it basically, just three times, get a first down,
run it again. Kevin O'Connell's calling these deep breaking routes.
It's like, Bro, this is not Sam Donald during the
regular season. It's definitely not her cousins. This guy has
no clue where the ball is coming out of his hands.
He throw a pick in the corner of the end
(29:04):
zone on a go route. I don't know why you're
calling go routes for this guy. He's overthrowing guys. If
you're gonna throw some quick stuff, okay, some quick outs
somewhat easy, even though he was missing those two. But
there was one point in time during the first half
that they were averaging almost five yards of carry and
the Bears had like double the amount of carries. If
(29:25):
it was flip flopped Jordan Mason Aaron Jones, they would
have they would have easily both got double the amount
of touches they got. But he insists, and I get it,
he's got these two awesome wide receivers, but that's how
he wants to coach. He wants to throw the ball
vertically down the field, and that is not what this
guy is capable of doing right now, right you know, listen,
(29:46):
Caleb Williams is much better player than JJ, and he
would be quote unquote more capable to do that. But
Ben Johnson and they got wide receivers too, but he's
not gonna play like that. And you got a coach
and I saw on social media it's like, well, you
gotta let him sing swim. The goal of today was
trying to win the game, and this was a winnable
game for both teams. And Ben Johnson to me thoroughly
(30:07):
out coach Kevin O'Connell, because yes, JJ stinks, but his coach,
like in the middle of the game in a one
score game, can help his guy out. And he's insisting
on pushing the ball down the field. And he's blowing
up in his face. Yeah, and I'm not stunned, but
it's like it's a consistent theme now with O'Connell throwing
the ball, you know, with this guy.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
And think about this in the fourth quarter at the
end of the game, John, when they trailed the Bears
got that huge kickoff return, so JJ McCarthy leads him
to a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
You're like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
God, Minnesota's going to get out of this thing.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Look like crap all day.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
They're going to win this game. San Francisco forty one,
Arizona twenty two. Brock pretty played very well, got started
with a sky more kickoff return, and they were off
to the races. I got to I'll say this, I
think Shanahan and Robert Sala. First of all, Arizona was
a mess. They had eleven penalties in the first half.
(31:00):
Harrison didn't play. But I'm gonna give San Francisco credit.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
John.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I'm not sure if any other staff in that the
NFL could overcome It's I texted Saul at the other day.
I was like, bro, you're coaching your ass off because
you have no players left. And Winter, I think is
a very good young player. But I mean my interpretation
watching that game today was, I mean, obviously you can
move a pocket much more with Brock Purdy than mac Jones.
(31:28):
They you know, they're moving the pocket all over the place,
and that's what Brock does very well. But they should
not be beating people forty one to twenty two on
the road.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
I do think one the Cardinals have less like a
star power, but they are as injured as the forty
nine ers and now and the forty nine ers getting purty,
but Piersall back, their offense feels a lot different when
you put Ricky Piersall with Jeningks Kittle and McCaffrey. I
did think it was a delicate situation. I get it,
(31:58):
you paid them, you know, one hundred and eighty million
dollars guaranteed. But how well mac Jones has been playing.
And Kyle was steadfast and like, this is our guy.
When he's ready, we're gonna go. And I said, this
is kind of weird. He's ready, what's been up with
his foot? He's just gonna be one hundred percent. He
looked completely normal. And Kyle the way he handled with
mac Jones, and he gave Mac a lot of credit
to is like.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Kyle's pretty good at quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yes, they're winning a lot of games with Mac. How
many coaches beside like a Andy Reid, could you just
be like, yeah, you're just gonna win ten eleven games,
I don't care what your schedule is. With a banged
up Purdy and Mac Jones, I'd say most teams in
the NFL are winning six seven games, especially with Fred
Warner with a cast on his foot. Nick nick boson
(32:39):
Florida rehabit and ACL. So listen, the Cardinals aren't bad,
but the forty nine ers beat the livin you know what.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Out of thinking about this, Arizona had almost five hundred
yards of offense and averaged seven yards of play and
got the you know what kicked out of them. Arizona
has talent. Arizona is they're just a big time Oh
they're just they all are Indianapolis where you're like, they've
got dudes, they just don't have the quarterback, right, So
(33:06):
you know, I think there is you know, well, I
when I watched the coaching today, especially in the late window,
I had Andy Reid and Sean Payton. You know, today
I've got Kyle Shanahan. I don't know if John Gannon's
a great coach, but Shannan is I've got McVeigh and
Mike McDonald, I got John Harbon Stefanski. I like Stefanski.
(33:31):
I think John the coaching in the NFL today. I
don't think there's ever been this many good young coaches.
I think it's all and I think that jesse Minter
with the Chargers will eventually get something. There'll be a
college guy or too that will pop out. Ryan Day
obviously he's done. This is the best Ohio state. Like
Ohio State. For the first time in my life, it
(33:52):
feels like they've like Bama, they've separated from people like
by a touchdown or so. I think they'll I think
they'll beat Indiana signific I don't know when. I when
I watched Shanahan and Sola, I'm just impressed. I mean,
they've lot They've got eight different guys defensively traded or
not playing on defense.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Well, I think when you look at a lot of
the in the forty nine, Er has been one of
the best teams over the.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Last what five six years.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
You go to the Bills, you know who's the poster
child Mahomes, who's the poster child for the ravens Lamar, right,
you just go around the top teams. There's a couple though,
like the Lions. You kind of think Dan Campbell first. Yeah,
you definitely with the forty nine ers, I mean that
they're they're they're franchise is Kyle Shanahan, you know, I
mean his his importance in getting Robert Sola to come back.
(34:38):
You know, I get asked a lot, do you think
he'll get a head coaching job this year? I just
don't think the candidates, Like, he's definitely gonna get some
interviews probably. I mean, I think Jonathan Gannon is in
major trouble.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Now, I'd also argue that if this was college, I
would view Arizona as one of those jobs, like I
wouldn't touch that job. Like that's just a bad that's
a place where tough to win. Esecially, when you factor
in you're gonna beat Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, and Mike McDonald.
Good luck to you with an owner of that's cheap.
Godspeed guys, because that's I don't think Jonathan Anam's terrible,
(35:10):
but their team's really falling apart now they're not They're
gonna their record's going to be awful. So yeah, I mean,
I listen Kyle this year. We liked him because of
their schedule, but once you had all the injuries, it
could have fallen off the rails fast and deserve a
lot of I think the mac Jones that signing and
resurrecting his career because he listen. I think his value.
(35:31):
It's like, well, would you trade him to the Minnesota Vikings? Yes, no,
I need them, but my problem is what a party
gets hurt? Again, his value to the forty nine ers.
I would for the right price, but I'm not giving
to you for a third round pick. Would you give
me two seconds or something? Because do you want to win?
Or do you do you want to lose? Because you're
gonna lose with JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Right, No, I think Minnesota is to play, And I
said it last week on the air, I said I'd
get a third round pick. You're probably right. He's worth
a second and the fourth or a second and the third.
I think it's probably what mac Jones is worth. And
it's always hard to decipher is mac Jones good or
is it maybe just the coach? But I do think
when you watched Mac make throws to a depleted receiving corps.
(36:12):
It was pretty impressive.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
I think. I think one thing too that you know
last year he was injured but changed the forty nine
Ers forever, was that it was between the Rams and
the Niners to get Christian McCaffrey, and it was the
Niners gave a second, a third, and they had to
give that extra fourth to make sure they got him,
and it changed the franchise. And I would say also
doubling down, you know, Kittle was getting a little older.
He's a pretty dominant player. So when you watch those
(36:36):
two guys, they are as good of a tandem as
a running back and tight end as you're gonna see.
I mean they are. They are ass kickers. I mean
they are ass kickers.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I think Kittle had two touchdowns today.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And he's he's just so physical and he's so good
in the run. And McCaffrey, even on some of his
runs that aren't a sexy he's just so physical and
he's so consistent.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Though.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Those guys are just they're Hall of Fame players. I
mean that's that's really what. They're just Hall of Fame players.
They're winning players, and they're guys you know when kind
of you know what's hitting the fan and your backs
are against the wall. They're guys you can lean on.
And that's the Chiefs have had those type guys. You
just need those type guys to be in the trenches with.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yeah, that was one of my That was my second
favorite Blazing five pick. I took San Francisco minus two
and a half. I said, when Shanahan gets blown out,
take the Niners the next week. He's a regular host
of the Josh Pates College Football Show. Totally tied into
college football west coast to east. So years ago I
worked in Portland, Oregon for a spell and Mike Belotti
(37:35):
was the coach, Jeff Tedford was the coordinator. They finished
number two in the nation. One year they got lucky
not having to face Miami. They faced Colorado and they
matched up really well with Colorado and not with Miami
at all. And I think Nebraska played Miami and got
you know, there was like ninety eight percent fans of
the Rose bowlward Nebraska, but Miami kicked the you know
what out of them. So Oregon has used two things
(38:01):
to become a power. One was Phil Knight's creativity and
money to build facilities. When there used to be the
facilities war, right that would used to be a big deal.
Pre NIL, there was about a ten year period it
was an arms race for facilities and Oregon was the forefront.
They've actually used three things ingenuity, one hundred different uniforms
(38:21):
to impress southern col kids to be the cool place.
USC has one uniform, Penn State's got one, Oregon had
a thousand, So they used phil Knight's ingenuity, then phil
Knight's money with facilities, and then third phil Knight's money
with nil where they are the big bidder on the
West coast. Most of my life, when I grew up
(38:43):
in the Northwest, you would think you were going to
land the number three running back in southern California, USC
would get number one, UCLA two, You'd get three, and
then at the last moment he would decide to just
go to USC and be a backup.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But that changed.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Oregon now mostly gets as good a players as anybody
in the West Coast. I think this is an awful
matchup for USC. The teams that beat USC Northwestern actually
ran the ball to them. Iowa can run the ball
at you. Michigan Last year I think Oregon's going to
(39:20):
be hard to block. I think Oregon USC's oline young.
I think Oregon's going to run on them. I think
Oregon's a big playoffense in USC on.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
The back end.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
At corners week, if Oregon and there are a nine
and a half point favorite wins Josh thirty three twenty
one wins by two touchdowns, how do you think we
view I know how we view Oregon, that's been established,
that's an elite program. How are we going to view USC?
(39:51):
Because I think it's a terrible.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Matchup the same way people have been viewing them. I
largely see your way. The one thing I would say is,
you know, coming into last week, if you and I
were to have talked about Pitt Notre Dame, you know,
you could have held up a piece of paper and said,
Pitt's got the number three run defense in the country.
And I would have looked at you and said, Okay,
Notre Dame's going to run right through them. I don't
really care what what paper says. It's lying to me
(40:14):
a little bit. So with this, like Oregon statistically top
three pass defense in the country, but I can tell
you that staff up there supremely respects that Indiana had
a combo of wide receivers come in there and work
them a little bit. USC's got the same combo receivers
that could come in there. And if USC were to
win this game and we look back, that's probably the
reason why. But if that doesn't happen, and if it
(40:37):
goes Oregon's way, it's probably just more the same. Colin,
It's probably you were a head coach that left the
Big twelve to go to the Pac twelve that became
the Big ten, and you really were never going to
be a fit in the Big ten. They hurled these
accusations at Lincoln as to why he didn't take the
LSU job, and he was scared of this, scared of
(40:58):
playing that kind of ball. I don't even care if
there's validity to it, because you didn't ask me what
valid is? You asked me, what are people going to say?
What are people going to think? They're going to throw
around the same accusations, the same pejorative connotations. And the
beauty of like competitive sport is you control that, but
yet it is that way until you change that. So
I see the matchup the same way you do. But
(41:20):
that's that's cool because if we both see it that
way and then they go up there and win stylistically
more a rock fight kind of game, then that's how
you change narratives.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
That's the only way you change narratives.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah, no, there is. I mean I was joking with
Lincoln off the air the other day before we did
our interview. I said, literally, you are being led by
a walk on running back from Calabasas.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
He said.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
He said, only at USC you fight a kid in
your backyard who's almost as good as any running back
you faced all year. No, they're the thing I always
go back to, Like Pete Carroll takes over the Raiders
and their defense is bad. That always worries me, like
you can't get your side of the ball right. Lincoln's
(42:09):
offenses have been money and the fact that he's doing
with a walk on running back. And for some of
the year, one receiver Lemon's been the really good key
receiver that's always been healthy. Deuce Robinson left went to
Florida State. You know, guys have transferred out. It's kind
of been a one receiver offense for a lot of
the seats. They don't have the supreme tight end talent.
(42:30):
Lake mccree's okay, three star kit. He's fine, not a
pro so, but it is. I will say this USC's
I'll give Jen Cohen the eighty credit. It's a really
distracted market and money gets splintered into movies and second
homes and tech companies and pro sports season tickets. It's
(42:54):
hard to galvanize Los Angeles like the Dodgers do, the
Lakers do, and yet there's the Angels and the Clippers.
It it's just it's hard. It's hard to stay to yourself.
It's the biggest economy in the country and Baton Rouge isn't.
But everybody knows in Baton Rouge, if you have money,
if you have two nickels drove together, you're giving them
(43:15):
to LSU football. I think it's much harder than people
think in Los Angeles. It's an incredibly distracted market. And
more so, remember when Pete Carroll was there, Josh, there
was no NFL in the city.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah, yeah, the media either, man, So like it's a
whole new world.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
And the Dodgers weren't the best organization in North America.
Like Pete was there. And when Pete was there, if
you won, your regular season games. Yeah, there was no semifinal.
H you won the Pac twelve, you went to the
Rose Bull So I don't know. I think I said today,
there's four or five programs in the country that have
an advantage for national championships. Georgia, Ohio State, University of Florida,
(43:57):
I don't love the governor, but probably LSU. And I mean,
and I said, I would say Oregon, but there's no
players in the state. And then I think there's six
of them Bama in the new anil world. They don't
have a lot of money and that changes things. They
don't look like like Oregon can go buy players from
the state of Bama. Bama is going to have a
(44:18):
hard time getting them out of Oregon. The Forregan wants
them that that wasn't the case four years ago. So
I mean, I I've said this to friends. They don't
want to hear it. I said, USC is not Ohio
State in this new world, and they're not Georgia and
they're not Florida. It's a it's it's it's another thing.
Josh costs three million dollars minimum to buy a home
(44:40):
and a nice neighborhood with good schools, the assistant, the linebacker.
Coach is making five fifty. You can't afford to buy
a home. How do you view USC as an elite?
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
What are you?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
What is your mount Rushmore for best jobs, money commitment,
state with players, donors control their history.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Georgia has always been They've been to my number one
for a while.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
If you were to promise me alignment at LSU, I
put LSU right up there. Ohio State's way up there
for me. Ohio State. Whatever you think about Ohio athletes,
I mean, there's like a proud tradition of high school
athletes there. Ohio State has zero problem going into South Florida,
I mean, zero problem whatsoever. So I put Ohio State
up there. You'd have to check, like which period of
(45:29):
time it is. But Texas conditionally is up there, same same,
But what's changed.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Over the past, just like.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
What's evolving right now in front of us is Texas
A and M. Because Texas A and M has just
been it's been like this stack of wood, but it's
been wet historically, meaning they well, post Johnny manziel A
and M is a totally different world. If you went
on that campus pre manzel and then you went back.
Now you don't even recognize it. So they they leveraged one.
(45:59):
They leveraged Manzel better than Auburn leveraged cam Newton, like
they leveraged him so hard, so effectively. So I'd say
them as well, but with USC. So to go back
to what you were talking about for a second, I
remember I was way younger. I was like in school
when the Pete Carroll era happens out there, and we
were enamored with them. We hated them in the South,
(46:19):
but like we were enamored with them. You remember that
trip they made to Auburn and they shut Auburn out
to start a season. The entire South, even people who
hated Auburn in the South, they waited for that date.
They circled that date because it was going to be
like a culture clash and the South's culture was going
to rise. You can't come into Southern eat and do that.
And then of course they did. But I remember thinking
(46:42):
back then that I as it never made sense to
me as a kid growing up in the South, immersed
in college football and that being the culture. When people
would say what you just said about LA, I had
never left the South.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
So to me.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
I just assumed that all the big time college football
programs and the towns slash hid they were in were
like Athens, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Tuscaloose, Alabama, Knoxville, Tennessee. That's
just the way I thought it worked. And I thought
when people said, boy, there's a lot to distract you
out there, there's a lot more going on in LA,
I thought it was excuse making. So you know, since then,
I've been able to travel, I've been able to go
(47:17):
out there, and it just it slaps you in the
face when you go out there. I feel the same
about Miami to a certain extent when I go to Miami,
when I go to LA. If you just drive around
for a day, be in town for seventy two or
ninety six hours, and ask yourself, does this feel different?
Speaker 3 (47:34):
It feels way different.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
And you just ask, like, how much more difficult must
it be to capture this place's imagination? Therefore, to capture
the wallet, to capture the emotional and financial investment, then
it must be in Baton rouge or in college station.
And that's the challenge.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Now.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
The trade off is if you've got it, you've got it.
But if you don't have it, they're not going to
help you get it. So you got to go in
there and you got to do it on your own.
Whoever is about to take the Florida Gator job, they'll
have the full weight and full support of that community.
Lincoln took the LA job, and it's like, this is great.
We'll check back in a little while. If he's winning,
(48:12):
we may show up. And if they're really winning, we
may even give a dollar or two.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
I talked today.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
I was talking to Joel Klatt about this. I said,
the best defenses I've ever seen in college football. The
Huskies with Steve Etman in the early nineties just bulldozed people.
They brought in the four to six and nobody knew
how they brought it from the Bears, and the whole
college football for a year did not know how to
attack Washington. I mean they literally every game just it
(48:48):
was over in the box. You couldn't get downfield, and
they had NFL safeties and corners. So for about a year.
Then there's the USC defense was really good with Pete
Carroll where Clay Matthews didn't start at linebacker, and then
it was NFF NFC Rookie of the Year. Defensively, it
couldn't start for USC. Then there was there were a
couple of I always loved. There was it the Rolando McLain,
(49:11):
the linebacker for Bama. It was the one that beat Texas.
I was like, man, they hit different. There were a
couple of Saban defenses that were and there was a
Georgia defense, a couple with a Jalen Carter.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
So there's been about four or.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Five that I've watched and gone, oh, that doesn't look
like that's somewhere between Saturday and Sunday football. It's not Sunday,
but it's close. Ohio State has an advantage none of
those had.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
It used to.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Be even Nick Saban, you'd have a hole in your
defense and you'd go to junior college and he was
never quite as good as the ranking. You have the
number two corner in junior college and you're like, he's
probably their best corner. But he solves a dilemma. Well,
now you just go buy the best corner. If you're
Ohio State and you're like, we need to be better
at corner, We're just gonna go buy the number one
(49:56):
guy who're already in the sport and crushing, and I
look at this Ohio State defense and again I want
to see him play out and who they play Josh.
The windows to complete passes are Sunday windows, like they're
when even when Knicks teams were great, you'd have a
corner like d Milner, who wasn't really a great corner,
(50:16):
he was great with a Knicks system. They got two
players that could go top five. They have another two
that could go fifteen between the fifteenth pick in the
third and the second round. What do you make of
just forget Ohio State, just what you've seen from their defense.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
It really boggles your mind a little bit because of
what conventional wisdom would have told you. Conventional wisdom, like
we all watched twenty twenty four Ohio State in that
stretch run, and you know in the back of your
mind or you think you know they're making this run
because of all this senior veteran talent, Like they're going
to lose all these guys. Their entire defensive front's going
(50:59):
to be gone, and we didn't even know Jim Knowles
was going to be gone. But they also lose the
coordinator and so like, just say that out loud, you
had had anybody. I don't care who it is, Ohio
State or anyone else. They are powered by their defensive front.
Entire defensive fronts wiped out, and coordinator's gone as well.
Not to mention, you're just coming off a national championship,
(51:20):
so there's that natural propensity to get a little complacent,
maybe come back to earth a little bit. Everyone's gunning
for you the next year. The bet I don't know
if the team overall is better, the defense looks better,
I don't know how that even happens. Matt Patricia came
in and here's one of the early warning signs. I
remember when Ryan Day got elevated there, and I remember,
(51:40):
you know, Ohio State is Ohio State, so they could
do a national search if they want to. They can
go land most any head coach they want. And they said, no,
the guy we need is already here. And I remember
some people looked at it and said, that's crazy. They're
cheating themselves by not doing this. Not do it, And
I looked at it and I said, they're not stupid.
They know what they have in the building. Just because
(52:01):
you don't know who Ryan Day is doesn't mean they
don't well It's the same way when Ryan Day needed
to fill that defensive coordinator role. There are guys who
would leave really good jobs to be the DC at
Ohio State, and he went and got Matt Patricia. That's
not a name that would have been on anyone's radar.
You take the biggest industry insider, give me your top ten.
Matt Patricia's not on it. And Ryan goes and hires him.
(52:25):
And you see why like hiring, I mean, it comes
down the players making plays. But if you can staff
properly in college football and you have top fifteen talent,
let alone what they have, you're going to be really
hard to beat. Now that doesn't make him invincible, but
what you're talking about is there's gonna have to be
a team if Ohio State gets eliminated that puts together
such an air tight like tight rope walk, performance, precision, poise, accuracy,
(52:51):
no turnovers. That's what it's gonna take. That's what it
used to take to beat those saving teams. It took
some insane performance. Somebody just plays out of his mind,
and if that that happens, you tip your cat to
the other side. Short of that happening, Ohio State's going
to win the national championship.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Well in the other thing is the way to beat
Saban was Manzell or cam It was generally somebody that
could go off script that Nick couldn't prepare for. He
just there's nothing you could do. I mean, if Nick
knew you were in the pocket, you could go back
and look at this. I'm not sure he lost three
times if he knew we're going to be That's why
I think Ohio State beats Indiana because you know where
(53:27):
Mendoz is going to be. The way to beat Ohio
State or a great defense.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
Is, oh shit, Josh Allen.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I mean, never forget what Josh Allen did to Belichick
when Belichick was in New England. Bill couldn't do anything.
So the only quarterback that Bill's ever faced, even Peyton Manning,
he gave some trouble to He could do nothing with
Josh Allen because Josh, especially when he was young, about
sixty percent of his game was offscript. That was Manziel,
that was Camp. Those are the kind of guys that
(53:56):
just off script guys gave Saban trouble. And Mendoza is
a classic big arm pocket guy. And the other thing
is you could beat Nick if you got to lead
in the second half and his defense had to cheat
a little or guess right, Like if they could dictate terms,
(54:19):
Saban squeezed you out like a towel. But if you
made Nick trailed, Nick now was taking some risk defensively.
I've got to get the ball back. We've got to
generate pressure with extra people. I think if Ohio State
leads in the second half, you're in big trouble. If
you have to throw against that. I think you can
the way to beat great defensive teams in college off
(54:40):
script and you force them to take risks they normally
wouldn't take because you lead late.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
I think another thing that happened like with Deshaun Watson
Clemson teams when they played.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
Bandage another one. Yeah, it's just that.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Was that the I'm not saying it's the first time
you ever saw anyone run tempo, but it was still
that early period. Like Malzon comes into this to the
picture and like guys are running tempo as the foundational
aspect of their offense for the first time. So the game,
like the rules hadn't shortened the game yet either with
the clock rules. Clemson ran over one hundred offensive plays
(55:15):
in one of those National.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Pampionship games, so I'd rarely seen Bama defense on the
field for trevorly Lawrence. Yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
Ran down the sideline against Alabama. I think it was
Alabama ran down the side again Trevor and DeShawn. It
was off script plays that beat Bama, not just the
pocket stuff.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
That's why like that, just you don't run that many
plays anymore. So that's another thing that's taken out of
the toolbox. See what you're saying is why I'm really
interested how Marcel Reed would play against them, Mike, Marcel,
We're coming off the worst half of football we'll ever
see him play in his life, followed by one of
the best. So that's it's a little weird timing. But
(55:54):
you know, when you talk about matchups, people always misunderstand
you intentionally.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
There was, oh, you think A and M is better
than No Highest. No one said that, dude.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
What I did say is, out of all the matchups
they could draw in the postseason, yeah, that's the one
that would get my attention the most because that's the
one that.
Speaker 3 (56:09):
Would probably keep them up the night at night the longest.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
The volume
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Colin Cowherd
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