Colin Cowherd Podcast - Saquon For MVP? 49ers Need A Reboot, Lions Offense Is Dominant, Bo Nix Surpasses Jayden Daniels, Vikings QB Controversy? - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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we're going to have an hour and a half with

(00:22):
John Middelcoff tonight, but I was going to just talk
about the Eagles thrashing the Rams tonight in Los Angeles.
It feels inevitable. Philadelphia and Detroit in the NFC Championship.
Those are stack rosters. The Rams actually have a great coach,
excellent quarterback, nice weapons, and a really strong defensive front.

(00:46):
And it was completely worked tonight. Almost five hundred yards
for the Eagles, two hundred and fifty five yards for
Saquon Barkley. The Eagles offensive line and the Lions offensive
line are so much better than the rest of the NFL. Well,
I four of the five Eagle o linemen I think
could get honors, just dominating performance. And again the Rams

(01:11):
have some talented young guys up front, you know, and
a lot of this Howie Roseman, the GM this league
is front offices are so important. Teams like Cincinnati just
don't make deals, and so it's Joe Burrow a couple
of your receivers and they're just a limited roster. Philadelphia

(01:32):
is constantly trade deadline, usually not necessarily this year, but
big players at the trade deadline, off season, free agency,
Draft Day deals, and you see the value of it.
I mean, even without Devonte Smith at wide receiver because
he's banged up, they lost Sleigh the corner during the game.
In every unit. The Eagles have a great, great player.

(01:55):
And you know, I talked about this before the season.
I said, the eye idea of letting your best player
go the New York Giants to go to the Eagles
is insane. I mean, can you imagine you know, I
know it's not perfectly analogous, but the Chiefs, you know,

(02:16):
letting the Chargers have Mahomes in his prime. Now the
Chargers have their own quarterback, but the best player on
the New York Giants was allowed to go to their
primary rival. Saquon Barkley. Think about this, has twelve touchdowns
this year, the Giants have sixteen, last in the NFL.

(02:36):
Saquon has ten plays this year of thirty plus yards.
That's the same as the entire New York Giants offense.
Giants let him walk. I think there's an argument MVP
this year. Boy after tonight. I mean, Rookie of the
Year has got to be bow Knicks at least offensive

(02:57):
rookie of the Year. I would not have a problem
with Saquon Barkley being MVP. I would have no problem.
I mean, the guy is he is separated from the
league at running back again. McCaffrey last year fully healthy,
but McCaffrey this year is not the same. Yeah, Saquon
Barkley is. There's just nothing like him. I mean, every

(03:21):
single carry looks like he's one broken tackle from going
the distance, and he did it, you know, twice the night.
Saquon Barkley is on pace to set the NFL rushing
record and scrimmage yards record. So if you're thinking to yourself, man,
he's having like a incredible year. Yeah, the most incredible

(03:43):
year ever potentially for Saquon Barkley. It has like a
KD to the Warriors feel where you're looking at a
team that's good enough to win the title and she's like,
you know, we're just gonna we're gonna throw in this
guy that is you know the best at his position,
and he'll finally actually have teammates that can help him,

(04:04):
and you know, a staff that can help him, and
a quarterback who's a threat to run as well, so
you can't just hone in on him. It's just insane.
And by the way, the other player the Giants let
go was a safety who now leads the NFL, and
interceptions got the Giants are so poorly run. But you know, Barkley,

(04:29):
I've said before, I think the best running back I
ever saw was Walter Payton, Barry Sanders probably too Christian
McCaffrey's dexterity and his ability to do so many things
probably puts him third. But McCaffrey does not look the
same this year, and instead Saquon Barkley was always an
excellent player, but he is and there's no other way

(04:52):
to say this. His ability to start and stop has improved.
He's just faster and quicker this year. And you know,
there are just certain things. Remember a couple of years
ago when the Lions drafted Jamiir Gibbs the running back,
and people crushed them for it, but their offensive line
was so good it was guaranteed to be productive and
as you've seen, the Lions just run over people. That's

(05:13):
the thing about Saquon Barkley. I mean, look how productive
he was with the Giants offensive line. And the other
thing the Eagles have that the Giants didn't. The Eagles
have star receivers on the outside of a j Brown's remarkable,
so it forces safeties not to cheat and they can't
cheat inside the box. So you just knew it was
going to be incredibly remarkably productive for the Philadelphia Eagles.

(05:37):
And I don't know what the New York Giants do
with their football operation, but their front office just doesn't
know what the hell they're doing. And the Eagles is
arguably the best, and Detroit's is excellent, and Kansas City's excellent,
and that's why those teams were at the top of
the league. It's not just the coach at the quarterback
the Lions right now, the Eagles with Howie Roseman, Kansas City,
Buffalo's got a very very good front office, and they

(06:01):
just take advantage of the weaker teams and the less
capable front offices. So I love watching Philadelphia play. You know,
I've got my questions regarding Nick Sarianni, but as I've
said people do learn on the job, and that's okay too.
Not everybody's Andy Reid or Sean Payton. Some guys are
learning on the job. McDonald the coach for the Seahawks,

(06:23):
or Mike McDaniel the coach for the Dolphins, you know, everybody.
Mike McDaniel is a really smart guy. He'd never been
a head coach. There's some things you don't know how
to do until you do them. And so I think
Mike McDaniel with Miami Dolphins are a fascinating team right now.
They I mean that game with New England was weird.
New England had played well, that wasn't even competitive three

(06:44):
drives in. So I just I think Philadelphia and Detroit
it feels inevitable. I mean, San Francisco is not the
same team. Washington's cooled off Rams. You know again, Rams
have some good players. The Rams need a left tackle,
a boundary receiver and a corner and the quarterback for
the future. They probably have two more years of Stafford,
but they couldn't compete tonight. You know what's interesting is

(07:07):
the Eagles are last in the NFL in first quarter
scoring and first and second half scoring. Well, what does
that tell you the first quarter the Rams were good,
why scheming mcvaigh Stafford. But the Rams in the second half,
they just get worn down. They don't have the personnel.
So the Eagles are a great second half team because
they just wear you down. Their offensive line wears you down.

(07:30):
And you saw it the first half. The Rams were
very competitive, but they just don't have the personnel over
the course of four hours to compete with Philadelphia. So
you know, that's my problem with Philadelphia as I just
think I think their talent's remarkable, and I think sometimes
they're under coached. It's very, very weird that you just
don't score in the first quarter when you have the
best offensive line or second best offensive line in football,

(07:51):
two star receivers, the best current running back, a more
than capable quarterback. You average seven and a half yards
per play tonight, and you can't you can't dynamic in
the first quarter. That's a scheming issue. But by Philadelphia
is something else to watch. They are fun to watch
because even though Detroit's a powerhouse offensively, there's just something

(08:12):
about Saquon Barkley and AJ Brown and Jalen Hurts. There's
just a lot you get the steak and you get
the sizzle with the Philadelphia Eagles. And I've been saying
this for the last couple of weeks. I felt like Buffalo,
Kansas City, and the Lions where the Super Bowl teams
put Philadelphia in that group. There are four teams now

(08:33):
that feel like they have separated from the pack. I
thought tonight's Eagle performance was really impressive. Fly cross country
against a great quarterback and a great coach and a
really good young defensive line for the Rams, and they
were manhandled, literally manhandled. Fly Eagles Fly. The NFL season's

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Speaker 1 (10:34):
All Right. Time for another Sunday hour and a half
pod with John Middlecoff, former NFL scout. I don't remember
having a Sunday where I was on the wrong side
of virtually everything except the Broncos game. What a crazy
Every favorite I like, every dog, I like, fail to
cover every favorite I was gunshy on covered. Let's start

(10:56):
with Green Bay thirty eight, San Francisco ten.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
So.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
I mean, when you knew it was troubles Out brought
pretty out Trent Out, But as I was watching this,
it was more than that, because, I mean Green Bay
gave them opportunities. I think you have to have a
hard look in the mirror, and it's hard in the
NFL when you still have really good people in the
locker room. I think this franchise needs a complete reboot.

(11:21):
If you look at the Detroits, the Green Bays, Buffalo,
Kansas City, the Chargers are up and coming. San Francisco
is like an old fighter, John, They're like an old boxer.
Last year, you know they were hanging on, had one
last good fight. Stop drafting receivers, rebuild the O lines

(11:42):
and D lines, Bosa's hurt, Kittle's hurt, McCaffrey's hurt. You
know this organization well, but listen, Green Bay was going
to win this game. You could tell two series in.
I think San Francisco has to hyper aggressively reboot the franchise.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Well, it's tough. You're paying all these guys all this money.
They've recently best I think the best thing that could
happen to them, because they're not making the playoffs. Keep
losing these games. I said, you know, today was not
a great day for Dallas, Like they're not going to
the playoffs. You win and ruin your draft position. If
you're the forty nine ers, you want to be drafting seventh,

(12:19):
not fifteenth, right because we know quarterbacks usually go and
that gives you an opportunity to get one of the
best players on the board. They played Buffalo next week,
that's a loss. You know, the Rams, they still play
the Cardinals, like they could lose these games, and I
would imagine they do. So, I mean, I think you're
looking at at at best a seven win team, and

(12:41):
I think right now, you know, not winning maybe one
more game the rest of the season. This pretty thing
was well reported today like they're not even sure what's
going on. Bosa hurt one hip that he heard another
Trent's just a weathered, you know, older player that this team,
you know, what they need, They kind of need to
get bounced in the first round or I mean, and
you know, not even make it to the first round
of the playoffs and get extra time off and get

(13:03):
to reset. It happened to the Warriors. Remember they had
twenty twenty. Twenty twenty was really rough couple of years.
Then they were fresh than they won a champion.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Well remember the Niners' last Super Bowl loss went six
and ten were injury ravaged.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, so I to me, the best easiest way for
them to get players. They're not gonna have a lot
of cap space because of all the big cap you
know hits they have with players, is to have like
the eighth pick in the draft, because it's not just
the first round, it's every round, and they've proven to
be able to draft really well in the fourth, fifth,
sixth round. When you're drafting in the top ten, you know,

(13:37):
there aren't really many excuses to miss, like when they're
drafting in the late twenties. So I think the best
case scenario roll out. The team they're rolling out, and
they're gonna their schedule is hard. I mean they still
play the Dolphins, who look good right now. Obviously they
got the Bills next week. They're just gonna naturally lose
a lot of games, which I think is really gonna
benefit them long term.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Well, you know, it's interesting. I was watching Caleb Williams,
who was just he's such a talented guy. Boone Nicks
looks fantastic. Jaden Daniels has hit the cliff Kingsbury wall,
you know, around Thanksgiving. Even in college, his teams tended
to swoon late and I looked at rock Perty. They're
gonna keep him right. I mean, you can't pay him
fifty million, but they're gonna broke her a deal here

(14:18):
probably in the forties. Is that what you think?

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Do they do? They have to? Though? Colin, what? Why?
Why are we always in such a rush? Like he's
he's not struggling to put food on the table. He's
making millions of dollars off the field. It's an incredible
spot for him with Kyle if you win six or
seven games and listen, this hasn't been his fault necessarily,
But why are we in a rush to spend fifty
million when clearly what there are four or five guys

(14:42):
in the league that you feel really good about it,
and then the next five guys making that much money
or somewhat of a roller coaster. Yeah, I would have
no problem giving him that. I don't know Kirk Cousins,
Daniel Jones eighty ninety and everyone's like, well he'll never
take that, Well, then we won't do a deal. You know,
if he would have got me back to the NFC
Championship game this year, you wouldn't have had a choice.
But they're not sniffing the playoffs. He's injured. Now we're

(15:07):
playing it out Like the problem with Dallas playing it
out is you knew how it was going to play out.
Why can't we just take a deep breath and see
how see what happens? Where is he going? Yeah, well
it's a better situation. Who's who's lining up one, he's
not a free agent, but who's lining up on the
open market to give him, let's just say, one hundred
and fifty million dollars a year? Who you bigging against?

(15:28):
So they regret the IU contract, they have to if
they could do that over again, they would have traded
him before the draft. I mean, there's not even so
let's take a deep breath, let's just play it out,
and that that's what I I would say. Most of
my life, what up until the last four or five years,
that's usually how business used to happen. Unless your name
was like Peyton Manning or Ladanian Tomlinson or some like

(15:51):
all time great player. Most players usually had to fight
for their cash. And now, just because the league's flush
with it, we just give it away. And again I
have no problem giving it to the elite guys. Hell,
Trent Williams, you need a boost, I'll give you a boost.
Rock Perty, Like, let's just take a deep breath, everybody.
And that's been my stance all along, is why can't

(16:13):
What was the rush to pay Trevor Lawrence? Does any
team regret a contract more than the Jags, Like five
weeks into the contract, at least two of has proven like,
but again, Tua's not making two hundred.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Plus try out, that's right.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
So and the party thing was being talked about, well,
it's the Trevor Lawrence and it's like, well, if I'd
give him one hundred and forty million dollars right now.
But that's not what the ballpark that has been discussed.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, I mean it's such a big decision. I'd peel
off some of the players. I would have moved off
Deebo last year. I wouldn't have paid Ayuk. I think
they've been a little negligent on the offensive line. They've
they've attacked the defensive line. I think they've been a
bit negligent on the offensive line.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
I just don't They're not Colin, They're not negligent. They've
been Kyle and the offensive line coach have been open
about their philosophical belief of skill players are more important
than offensive lineman.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Oh, you can tell they believe.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
In that zone scheme that I can take mainly average guys.
Obviously Trent is their outlier. But how'd they get Trent?
They got him for a third round pick, right, and
the only reason he didn't go to Minnesota who was
offering way mor Is he refused to go there because
he wanted to play for his guy, Kyle. So they've
openly said, yeah, we don't take offensive lineman if we
believe a skill guy's on the board higher the football

(17:32):
I was around growing up, you know with coach Hill,
who came from Belichick, and then Andy Reid and Howie Roseman,
they would laugh at that they would take offensive lineman
in the first round and then they take him again
in the second round.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Well, the Texan should have attacked the offensive line, not
Stefan Diggs. And by the way, Jim Harbaugh had a choice,
he took Joe alt Over. I was told he wanted
Brian Thomas to get from LSU. So I mean, I
think you can find receivers anywhere. I think it's very
hard to find elite tackles out of the first round. Okay,

(18:04):
overtime Minnesota thirty Bears twenty seven. Both quarterbacks played well.
I'll get to Caleb in a second. I thought Sam
Darnold got hurt, came back overtime, some big time throws
Sam twenty two to thirty four, three hundred plus yards,
a couple of touchdowns. Vikings had it won multiple times

(18:25):
in the fourth quarter. Let it slip away. But my
takeaway on this is it's not just that Sam is
gonna win like comeback player of the year.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Right now.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
I think you have to take Minnesota. I mean, they're
not as good as Detroit I think they can play
with anybody, including Philadelphia and the NFC. Like I just
think the Vikings are a real team.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
Well, their offenses so botent, I mean at any moment.
I mean, Jefferson is one of the best players in
the league any position. And how good is Jordan Addison
if he's going to be your number two? And that
nailor guy, I don't even know much about him. He
makes plays every time I watch him play. Their running game,
they're offensive coaching. You know, Sam's arm is just big,
so you know in terms of explosive plays, and defensively,
they don't have like I would say, excellent players like

(19:08):
they did in the peak of the Zimmer days when
Kendrick and Harrison Smith and some of their pass rushers
were in the prime of their career. But we all
agree that he's one of the better defensive schemers in
the league. So from a coaching standpoint high end, are
they the sneakiest nine to two team in the history
of the league. Well, yeah, because because they're not going
to win the division right and more than likely I

(19:29):
guess they only have They're only one game behind, but
they'll be the fifth seed. But they will have consistently
played pretty well. I mean today, let's face I mean
took an onside kick with twenty seconds left for them
to get in position to right kick a field goal,
like they should have won that game in regulation. What
what percentage time does an onside kick hit?

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Like?

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Two percent? Not even?

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah? And I think you know, one of the things
with Minnesota, it's like, you know, they were zero for
five in the red zone against Jacksonville. They had today's
game wrapped up. They they're just not talented enough to
make mistakes. Like Detroit didn't play brilliant football today, went
on the road and beat a pretty decent Colts team
in front of a tough environment, And it's like, that's

(20:09):
a great team. I mean, I think I think Detroit,
if you look at they look like the Moss Brady Patriots.
Like Minnesota's a good team. The margins are tighter. And again,
but I think you have to we have to be
honest about this whole Sam Darnold thing. JJ McCarthy's team.
Next year, Sam is going to have an absolute market.

(20:32):
I don't think there's any question.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
Are we sure? Though? Because what do you do if,
let's say, all of a sudden you're in the NFC
championship game against the Detroit Lions, and you've beaten let's say,
you know, the Falcons in the first round, and then
you take out the whoever, maybe the Eagles in the
second round. I don't know exactly how the seating would
play out. And then you lose the tight game to Detroit.
Maybe you lose by a couple touchdowns. But Sam has

(20:53):
multiple playoff victories and you just watch them and you
think like you do when you watch Jared Goff, like
he's solid, he's a winning player. He's not obviously he's
gonna make some mistakes. He's different than Jared, But you
know what I mean, a couple of years ago, it
is pretty clear, like you can win with this guy
if you build a good team. They build a good team.
And especially if what if he wins a playoff game,
a starting left tackle who's like the young Trent Williams

(21:15):
of the league is gone. So and today the guy
that trade for gets herd and as Quisenberry comes in,
I mean, that's just a lot of moving parts. Well,
what does he bring to the table. He can move around,
So I the Vikings would like pay millions of dollars
to know that JJ McCarthy is gonna look like Sam

(21:35):
Darnold in two years, let alone next year. There's no guarantee.
How often do we see these young players but never
materialize in anything.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
But you'd have to pay Sam, and you get.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
I understand that. But I'm just saying it's you just
let him go when you've proven that you can win
with him, and it's not like he's a thirty six
year old or thirty eight year old.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Twenty seven or twenty eight, isn't he.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
I think it puts you in a precarious spot if
you have playoff. I think it's easy if you're one
and done, it's an easy transition you win a playoff
game or two. I think the conversations just get a
little more serious, which I'm sure they've been having throughout
the year, because that the NFL's you kind of live
in the moment, you know. I mean, if you're like, well,

(22:16):
why if our team's going to be good, we could
win again this year, that's really all you're focused on.
It's easy to say the next five years you're really
focused on twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I think if you could get a second round or No,
he's a free agent, so you get no picks.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
I can you franchise them and trade him?

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, I mean I think it's quarterback class sucks in college. No,
I mean even Shaduur's more of a B plus a
minus prospect than an A plus Jalen Milrow people like,
but he's he's not fluid. He's gonna take He's better
than Anthony Richards and out of college, but he's gonna
take a lot of work and a lot of patience.

(22:54):
It's really interesting. I mean, let's go to chicagould.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
You give him like a Cousins type deal, like a
couple of years hundred million, three years, one hundred million dollars,
and then just figured it out as you go, and
if he keeps playing well, you can always trade him
if you like JJ. I think I just think the
risk saying with with JJ McCarthy injured was a project
to begin with. I think there was a story within
the last couple of weeks he needed another surgery because
of the swelling. I mean, not that that's the end.

(23:19):
I mean he's still got a long time till twenty
twenty five season. But I just like this would be
serious conversations, which I they're one hundred percent having. Doesn't
mean they're going to do it. But it's a fluid situation.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
So in a losing effort today, I think Chicago is
the most fascinating four and seven team in the league.
Caleb Williams made a throw right before the field goal
descended to overtime. I thought it was the best throw
I saw today. I mean it was twenty eight yards
in the air, I mean four Vikings right over and

(23:56):
they showed the video from behind Caleb. They had four
hundred yards offense. He had thirty two completions. The box
score was even. They were down big in the fourth quarter,
so Caleb is a pretty fearless kid. They were down
to a good team twenty four to ten. They came
roaring back. He had a really bad sack in overtime

(24:17):
that killed their field position. Vikings get the ball. Sam
Darnold outplays him in overtime. But for I said before
the season, I said, the Bears are gonna win seventh.
They're gonna finish in fourth place. But you're gonna feel
good about it. You're gonna be like, yeah, we got
the guy watching that game today and that fourth quarter.
I mean Greg Cosel told me this week he's like

(24:37):
that kid. That kid is unbelievable. Like, nothing against Jayden Daniels,
but he's stronger than Jayden Daniels. Nothing against bow Knicks,
but he's got a bigger arm than bow Knicks. I
thought Caleb today had some moments that were just wow.
That's my take when I watched them.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, he made a couple throws over the player the
past year. Throwing is the live version didn't do it
justice when they showed the replay and he layered that thing.
But he's Brett Farv strike. How about the two point
conversion when he hit DJ Moore in the back of
the end zone and there were a couple other over
the middle of the field strikes to like Keenan Allen
where you're like, he was just letting this thing rip.

(25:16):
And then the usc the reason that everyone was so
high on him, the scramble threw it down the sideline
to DJ More might be the best play he's ever
made of his career. Yeah. He The one thing that
jumps out these last two weeks is there's more of
a looseness that feels more collegiate to him. Again, yes,
that he was really tight. Toward the end of the

(25:36):
Waldron thing, they fire him, and you just see a
much looser player. And I, you know, you're scrolling around
the four boxes listening to different audio. And when I
clicked over at one point in time during the game,
they said he had mentioned like I just feel like
I got my confidence back a little bit, and he's
playing that way. I think the hard part if you're
a Pars fan is like, our team actually probably wasn't

(25:58):
that far away this year. What let us down? It was, well,
we've been pretty They muffed a punt today and they
had a field goal blocked. Again. They had back to
back field goal blocks.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
If you count last week they led to two Vikings scores.
So they're five and eighteen in one possession games under
eber Flus, and they're a terrible road team, meaning close games.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
He's never uber Flues has never won a road game
on a Sunday colin the NFL plays on Sundays.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Well, look at look how much better the offense got
when Waldron left. Okay, so we saw leak. I mean,
look at bone next with Sean Payton. Can you imagine
if they get this guy a sharp, offensive coach.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
But you know the hard part though, is Colin And
I don't know if you know this guy. I just
know him from the outside, and I don't think that
highly of him. Is partly because you have a business
guy and Kevin Warren. There was a segment of The
Hard Knocks where Ryan Poles was extending DJ Moore to
one of the biggest contracts in the history of the Bears,

(26:53):
and in Hard Knocks he's reading out some of the
details of the contract not to the owners, but to
Kevin Warren, and I went, that's a problem because and
listen to everyone around Chicago knows Kevin Warren and it's
been well reported. Poles and ebra Flu's answer to him,
not the owner. So you have like this intermediary middle
management who's really powerful in the NFL that doesn't work.

(27:15):
Can you imagine listen, I when I was with the Eagles,
Don Smelenski like, there are a lot of really good
presidents that dominate the business side, and they're they're tight
with their GM and their and their coach. They don't
dictate the terms of that stuff. On big you go
to the owner and even some of the owners once
they get comfortable with you, like unless it's a crazy
just you do it like I'm good with it, right,

(27:37):
I trust you. So you have this president who is
gonna be in charge of the hiring of the coach
with poles that that that's where it gets weird, Colin,
and I think a lot of people in Chicago, because
there's no disputing you watch this team. If Caleb's gonna
play like the last couple of weeks, it's they're gonna
be a talented football teaman.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Allen today was great.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah. So I I just wonder from a coaching stand point,
guys with options like clearly like Woody Johnson, no thanks, wait,
I got I have to deal not with the owner
and not with my GM, but the president of the team.
Well that's that's a turnof Colin in the business.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, and the and and that man you're speaking of
was known. I know somebody. I know two people that
have dealt with him before. Kind of a ladder.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
He's a business guy.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, I mean a little bit of a ladder climber,
light on the details sometimes nice enough.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Man.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
I My take is, and I feel bad for Caleb Williams.
It's like I I would feel bad for Aaron Rodgers
if he wasn't Aaron Rodgers. But some of these organizations
are just a circus. I mean, the Jets are poorly
run franchise. The Bears are a poorly run franchise. And
I just I mean Bill Pollion ran their last coaching search.

(28:52):
That's why they ended up with Matt Eberfluss. The owners
called Bill Pollion and said, find us a coach, so
you know, and he's gonna go, you know, to his allies,
and I I mean, just watch Bweck's play and tell
me you don't think Sean Payton and coaching matters.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
It's I mean, but that's a good example of there's
a guy making eighteen million dollars. He's the boss. Now
he did it's not his money. If he has a question,
he goes to the Walton family or the Penners or
you know, whoever is in charge of the money rights.
It's really run a lot like a college team would

(29:33):
be run like Kirby Smart nick sate. They're the boss
of the operation. It can get weird in the NFL
because it becomes so corporate, these billion dollar operations. A
lot of people like their hand in the cookie jar.
You see these names that are at these meetings with
Woody Johnson, You're like, who are these other three guys? Well,
they're like his confidants, right, that you have to deal
with when you want things done. You know, forever Belichick
wants somethm done, he you want to write to Robert, right,

(29:56):
this is what we're doing. It's me and you and Robert.
Then his son starts getting more involved than it gets
we And I think one reason I see the Chiefs
are so well run is because it's just Brett and
Andy deal with Clark, and I know the forty nine
ers too, Like it's a very streamline. It's just Kyle
john Jed York. There's not a lot of other cooks
in the kitchen. That's what makes me nervous with Chicago
because you'd be like, they should be all over Rabel. Well,

(30:18):
Rabel just had a weird experience. Does he want to
deal with this now? And he's a big ten guy,
and Kevin Warren not highly thought of with some of
the football guys. I just that that makes me nervous. Colin.
I could see it coming from a mile away, these
stories in January of like, yeah, this is just a
weird interview because like I didn't know who I was
answering to. Right, you can see it, you can see

(30:41):
it coming.

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Speaker 3 (31:55):
All right?

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Cowboys beat Washington thirty four to twenty six complete batshit
crazy in the fourth quarter. Just a wild game. And
I'm sure you either watched it, folks or not.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
You know, an a forty points score in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
It was insane. So Cliff Kingsbury always had a reputation
Jaden Daniels. You know, I was looking at this with
five minutes left, Jayden Daniels had less than one hundred
yards passing and Washington had nine points against the thirty
first scoring defense. So it was a lot of points late.
But Jaden Daniels. Bow Knicks has completely surpassed Jaden Daniels

(32:32):
for offensive Rookie of the Year. Like it's not club.
I mean, he's the last six games, it's not close.
Bonnicks looks confident, accurate, poised, athletic. Jaden's lost his fastball.
And so you know, I talked to Steve kaim I said,
you know, can you explain the Cliff Kingsbury college and
professionals swoon in the second half of the season. And
Steve just said, he's a very smart, creative guy who

(32:55):
works in the summer to come in with new stuff,
and maybe the league catches up with him that he
doesn't pivot to the second pitch after he's brought in
new stuff. But Steve didn't really have an answer. But
you know, he said, hard working, clever, smart. He does
come in every year with new stuff. But I was
sitting there watching that thing today, and by the way,

(33:15):
Washington almost pulled it off. But once again Washington missed Pats.
They missed a field goal. Special teams in this league
are I don't remember a year that special teams decided
more football games. They're just terrible. But I looked at
this and I thought to myself today, if you could

(33:39):
redraft all the quarterbacks, and you have to consider Sean
Payton and the bow next deal, if you could redraft
the quarterbacks, would you draft them differently? Forget the teams,
would you redraft them differently?

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, I think Caleb's at least quieted, and I listen,
I was starting to wonder, what the hell are we watching?
These last two weeks make you feel a lot better.
I mean, today he made throws where you're like, that's
what number one overall pick looks like. No disputing, Here's
where I will defend Jayden Daniels because today he was
run around pretty well. I came into this season, I
know you picked him to make the playoffs. I thought

(34:12):
this was more like a six or seven win team
that was going to be an impressive operation. But wins
loss were not going to be what it looked like
they were going to be three weeks ago. I don't
think they're that talented Colin. I honestly, I don't think
they're teams that good. Yeah, Terry mclaurin's good. Their running
backs getting banged up. Brian Robinson's a good player, but

(34:32):
he was in and out. So if they're not running
the ball, well, and here's the one thing. And I
always thought this about Chip Kelly, and you know, Mike
Leach never came to the NFL. But Cliff's a good example.
These spread offenses right early on in the season, rapid
fire defenses aren't as dialed. Take advantage of it. As
the season goes on, weather changes a little bit, it

(34:54):
gets a lot more physical. Well what Dallas happened today.
Parsons is back now, like their defense is a little
bit more Yeah, I would say legitimate with him in
the game, and they were just ready for a brawl,
like they got pride. I mean, they got a lot of.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
High paid, accurate moves the ball for sure, and it.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Was a physical game. Yeah. I think sometimes the more
physical you are, with more of the quote unquote spread offenses,
you can shove them around a little bit. And I
think that's really what's happened in my opinion. Now. You know,
once that I saw on the Denver game is Bonnix
hasn't turned the ball over in fourteen quarters. One pass
was on a hail Mary. But Jane Daniels have three

(35:30):
picks today.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Right, So it's like you start turning the ball over,
you start forcing things. Games are a little closer. The
other thing is in the NFL, you know, regardless of records,
I've always thought, you know, as the season goes on,
like where do you get a lot of upsets in
the NFL? Are Division games in November and December with
a good team versus bad team. We see it every

(35:52):
year like today, who in their right mind would have
given Dallas a shot? But you could tell halfway through
You're like, this is a real game, this is going
to be tough.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Well, the tight quarterbacks played great. Yeah, No, it's it's
I think when I looked at that game, I'm like, oh,
Dallas just screwed up. Your drafts spot. Yeah, I think
to your point, I think we have to take a
deep breath. Washington replaced everybody they came in with a

(36:21):
new quarterback and a new offense in Cliff Kingsbury's history
of starting the first six to eight weeks quickly but
then eventually regression of the meme. Whereas Denver is better
than people think. Denver's got some really good players, Denver
has an elite offensive coach, Denver has a college quarterback
with sixty one starts, and Denver's Cortland Sutton, who, like

(36:41):
Terry McLaurin, is just a big target that's open all
the time. And I want to pivot to that game
because I we haven't talked a lot of Denver on
our Sunday podcast. So Denver beats the Raiders twenty nine
nine teams the only game all day. If I would
have bet every game, I think I would have gotten right.
So bo Nick's his last eight games, John fifteen touchdowns,

(37:02):
two picks, and a one oh four passer rating. In
those games, they're five and three. If the field goal
is not blocked against the Chiefs, they're six and two.
Like we have to acknowledge now, Denver with in dead
cap money. Hell that sacrifice draft capital. I think this
is a good team. I watch them again. The Raiders

(37:22):
don't have a lot at quarterback, but they've got some talent.
I think we have to be honest about this. I
think Denver's pretty good football team.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Well, Colin, I think we could be seven days away
from them being officially, I guess unofficially a playoff team
because they play Cleveland this week. In Miami, who's obviously
got it together with Tua back, a lot of people
think that they are alive and well, well, they play
the Packers this week. So if Miami loses and they
are then five and seven and Denver wins, they would

(37:51):
be eight and five. Like I have a hard time
seeing Miami catch them. So this is a massive week.
Like I think Denver's in the playoffs. If they handle
business this week and all of a sudden you start
doing the math like they're getting a nine, no doubt.
But I think they end up with ten and that's
they basically doubled their win total. Like this. This has
been a huge year for Sean Payton. Honestly, it's been

(38:14):
a win win for Russell An Seawan, Yes, some marriages
break up, go other places, happy as hell with your
separate significant others. That's how it's worked out here. So
it's just it was never gonna work. You thought it.
We all thought it. Anyone with a brain that knows
these two personalities, even if you don't know him personally,
you're like, this isn't gonna work. And they broke up,
and it's gone well for both Listen Right and Sean Payton.

(38:36):
I think was pretty lucky that, you know, there was
six quarterbacks in the you know, because a lot of
them were going high. It just happened to be a
very unique draft because it's not like they were drafted
fourth right, so he needed some of the stuff was
out of his control, and it worked out perfectly. The
type guy that he would like is the last guy
off the board in the top fifteen. I mean, it's

(38:57):
it was a historic draft, right, six guys going top twelve,
thirteen picks. We might never see that again.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
And Denver has in nine of the last twelve games,
and this is so big for rookie quarterback. They've held
opponents under twenty So when bow Knicks maybe struggles today
a little bit in a couple of drives. They're not
giving up points.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
So their dbs A their dbs are good. I mean
every time I look up obviously certain's good. They have
all these other guys. This is why vance Joseph, which
Shawn deserves credit for. Because you give up seventy points
in a game, I would have been like, Shawn, you
might have to fire this guy by mid season, stick
it out by the end of the year. Last year.
They're playing good defense. This year, I think that has
to be the most surprised unit of the league. They

(39:38):
feel just on the it test, one of the best
defenses in the league. I know Gardner Minshew today, but
the score was a little closer. This guy. Never once
crossed my mind that the Raiders were gonna win that
game today.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
No, but they've been doing this now for two months.
I mean, go to the Kansas City game. They outplayed
the Kansas City Chiefs, and so on the road.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
That's where I think, you know, depending on how this
Denver more than likely would probably be the seven seed. Baltimore. Yeah,
you know, the Baltimo already has four losses. But if
you're telling me, two of the three wild cards are
Denver and the Chargers, like anytime you play your wild
card weekend, you're playing an excellent defense, like you could lose.

(40:18):
You know, this is not a three seven game series.
All of a sudden, you have a shitty half, You're
down fourteen to three in the third quarter. We've seen
this every year. So you got two teams separate from
obviously Herbert's, you know, an elite player. But even with
a rookie quarterback. We have seen rookie quarterbacks have success
in the playffcause they don't have to do that much.
And that's kind of you know, bo Nicks, as long

(40:39):
as he didn't turn the ball over and their defense
played a high level game, why couldn't they win it
seventeen to fourteen or fifteen to thirteen. They're very comfortable
playing that way.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Think about this, and I watched them today. Sean Payton
does such a good job of two things. Defining He
gives bon Nicks about eight layups. He gives them a
lot of easy stuff. And then Nicks deserves credit because
he is constantly seeking Courtland Sutton and Cortland. Sutton is
a basketball player with a helmet. I mean that he's
big in the corner. Jesus big, long athletic, and I've

(41:13):
always liked Courtland Sutton so and mims Is it can
be a burner. I like their backs, but you can
see that he gets bow Nick's easy stuff and then
bow Bow like Russell does with George Pickens, bow just
attacks Courtland Sutton. But take out Andy Reid. Just take
Andy Reid out. Belichick's now not coaching on any given Sunday.

(41:35):
I'd argue Sean Payton's as good as coach as the
league has. I absolutely believe that. I think Andy Reid's
the best, maybe arguably ever. But now that Belichick's out,
take out Andy Reid. He can go toe to toe.
I mean, I love Sean McVay. They've had some bad
offensive halves when people are healthy. So I think a
lot of this is, you know, it's just funny because

(41:55):
Shawn's done things to alienate people. He's outspoken. Remember he
took a shot at the Jets. He was right by
the way. You know, he took a shot at Nat Hackett.
He was right by the way. But you know, when
you lead with your chin, you offend a lot of people.
You cannot watch Denver and not see the coaching. It's
it's I mean to me, if you gave Coach of

(42:15):
the Year today, I don't know how you'd I don't
know who you'd pick. I think Sean Payton's now after
that Tomlin time out mess, clock management mess, I think
I give it to Sean Payton.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
You know. I think it's the one award that, honestly,
as time goes on, is irrelevant. Right like Belichick, Andy Reed,
they don't even have that many. Andy Reid doesn't have one.
As a cancy chiefs head coach like Jim Harbaugh took
over a team that won five games, they're probably gonna
win eleven or twelve. And I think the way you
just describe Sean, I think Jim is definitely mellowed out

(42:51):
in his older age, but he was a lot like
that early on in Michigan and definitely with San Francisco
and both. I mean, look at those two guys. If
you would have said that the Chargers in Denver, whatever
the odds, if you would have parlayed those two teams
to make the playoffs, Colin, they might make the playoffs.
They might be resting starters by the last week of
the season. And it's not a coincidence that those guys.

(43:14):
Here's the other thing. And Sean once he hired Dennis Allen,
their defense was excellent the last three or four years
with the Saints. Jim, both offensive guys, former quarterbacks value
defense and will pay for it and invest in it.
And that really matters. And I don't think it's shocking.
And this is why you're watching the Raiders today. You're like,

(43:35):
can you imagine being the redhead stepchild of your division?
When you're in that you know, with those three coaches,
Like what do you even do? Like, you better hope
Belichick picks up your call this offseason, because if he doesn't,
you got no shot.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
That was this week Sunday Night Football, brought to you
by Uber eats as the official on demand delivery partner
of the NFL. Uber eats has the best game day
deals all season long, order now for game day. So
we're talking about that division. Let's talk Chiefs thirty Panthers
twenty seven. Again. The Margins are thinner, their defense is
not as good as last year. The red zone offense

(44:10):
is struggling, you know, and then they get the ball.
Mahomes makes that great scramble down the left sideline and
you're like it's really interesting watching them. They're I don't
think we're giving Kansas City credit for this. It's virtually

(44:33):
impossible to win back to back titles, even if you
have Brady and Belichick in their prime, to win back
to back and be going for a third. There's only
so many motivational species. You go on the road today
at Carolina, you're an eleven point favorite, and I mean
you looked at the film. I mean, all these guys,
you're not fooling anybody. But I think Kansas City is

(44:58):
going to be dialed in. Think think a lot of
their issues now, like today, Do I believe they installed
everything they have? Do I really believe that? Or do
I believe there are moments now when they're taking chances
with offensive players where they're trying to develop a worthy
or Noah Gray. I kind of feel like when I
watch Kansas City, they're playing with their food. But again,

(45:22):
Buffalo is better. I don't think they're buttoned up right now.
But the way they came down Mahomes three or four,
big Scramble final Drive, I'm like, experimentations the wrong word.
But I don't think they're installing everything. I feel like
they're trying to find out what they are. Is that fair?

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Well, I think I think their defense is not quite
as good it's in the season, but some injuries. Yes,
but we've been saying that they're very, very comfortable winning
these weird games. Yeah, and when there was a when
there was more than enough time on the clock, even
when Carolina scoring out the two point, you felt confident
that they would have a chance at a field goal. Right.
They were also up twenty seven to nineteen late in

(46:06):
the game, so it's not like it was flipped and
they had to have some storming comeback, like they were
in control of the game. You know, we talked about
the forty nine ers, right, just ran out of gas. Well,
they have been to three straight conference championship games and
won Super Bowl, and then they had a year off
in twenty twenty, and then they played the Chiefs in
the Super Bowl in nineteen. The Kansay Chiefs since twenty

(46:27):
eighteen have gone to every conference championship game and I'm
pretty sure they've won back to back. They won another
one and they lost Tampa. They've gone to four of
the last five Super Bowls and currently are ten to one.
So it's like, however, they have done. It's remarkable. And
I watched the Chiefs posted something in Andy in the
locker room, like we don't apologize for wins around here,
we're taking everyone's best shot. And say this about Carolina

(46:51):
the last I would say month, I mean, they had
won back to back games and then they went on
a by I kind of had circled that. If the
Chiefs had beaten the Bills, It's like I might have
taken them upset special in that and even this game,
like after that Bills game, the Chiefs are human, Like
are they gonna give their like you said, not just
the coaching their best shot, but the players, Like, do
you take Carolina as seriously as you did the previous week?

(47:14):
You cannot can't, Like, these are twenty eight, twenty seven,
twenty six thirty year old human beings, but they're ten
and one. It's they are on at equally, if not
more impressive, of any six seven year stretch of the
New England Patriot dynasty. Of what they're doing right now now.
If you're a betting man, the Patriots lost a lot
in the in the second in the conference championship game.

(47:35):
Over twenty years, this you would say probably based on
what I've seen, wouldn't shock me if they lost in
the second round, right or in the conference championship game,
especially depending. I mean now they only have the one
game over the Bills, but they are this is a
weird down year for them, and they're gonna be what
fourteen and three maybe fifteen and two class that's an

(47:58):
incredible accomplishment. So when we talk about the Andy Reid comparent,
Belichick like.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
With injuries, they're trying to figure out the red zone offense,
they haven't had Isaiah Pacheco, like they're they're experimenting. They
don't know exactly what they are. For the record, we
know the Raiders and the Giants are drafting a quarterback.
I watched Bryce Young today, who's arguably the best quarterback
ever in Southern California high school history, who was dominant

(48:26):
in college. I ran into his high school coach the
other night at Modern Day, a legend who's retired, and
I said, best player you ever had?

Speaker 3 (48:33):
You know?

Speaker 1 (48:34):
First second name out was Bryce Young. He's like, he's
just a remarkable player, great kid. I don't think Carolina's
going to draft a quarterback. I think the class is
two weak. I think they think Bryce is better than
anybody outside of shadhor Sanders. I think Caroline is going
to give Bryce Young another year. What's say you?

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, I would say he's done a lot like his
version of what Caleb has done these last couple of weeks. Yep,
you know, over the last three game for him, he's
looked like a real player. Now, if you could do
it all over again, would you have mortgaged what you
did to get him? I mean I think probably not.
I would not, but he has been more than respectable
these last three weeks. And he you know, confidence is

(49:14):
a powerful thing for young players. Listen, He's not he's
a little small, not a great athlete, but he does
have a natural feel for the position. And that's what
was so head scratching when they essentially had to bench him,
is he was inaccurate. He was making awful decisions. He
just looked lost and maybe sometimes like you just take
a reset. Listen. I think Anthony Richardson, even today they

(49:35):
kind of got work, just has looked a lot better.
I thought he looked a lot better today. Take a
deep breath. I don't know if Bryce needed to be
like humbled like Anthony Richardson, but he definitely like just
take a step back was probably healthy for him, and
he looks like a real NFL quarterback. Now, their team
a lot of question marks. Is their coaching staff good enough?
Is their talent long way to go? But I'm with you,

(49:56):
like would you gonna draft cam Ward or Quinn you or.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Someth the same thing. In Tennessee. They beat the Texans
today and so that's I mean, this is not a
game that's riveting, but the Titans thirty two, Texans twenty seven.
So listen the last six games. C J. Stroud is
really struggling. They went and got Stefan Diggs should have
probably addressed the interior O line.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
C J.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Stroud is hurrying everything. He is struggling. He has a
seventy four passer rating in his last six games. He
is really struggling. But I watched Will Levis today and
my take is with Bryce Young and Will Levis, I'm
just keeping them. I'm giving him another year. I mean, hell,
the Giants paid Daniel Jones. I don't think Daniels as
natural as Bryce Young. I don't think he's as I

(50:39):
don't think he has the arm of Will Levis. In
my take, watching Will Levis today the last two weeks,
I'm kind of like, yeah, they got boat raced by Detroit.
They don't have the same level of players. But I
watched Will Levis and Bryce Young and my take is,
we like c J. Stroud and we see what he's
going through, and Houston's got better players than the Titans.

(51:00):
I thought Will Levis today bought himself absolutely another year.
I mean, you can go get Sam Donold in the market.
I think they're just gonna stick with him.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
Yeah, I mean, you know, Will did give you the
one pick six, No he mad, He did make some
fantastic throws down the field. Something is really off with Houston.
I mean, they have not looked good in a way,
even in their wins. It's just they looked a lot different.
Maybe it was their schedule last year. Obviously, you know,
protecting CJ has been a problem, but they look they

(51:31):
look like a lock to be a one and done.
You know, if you tell me they're playing the Chargers
or the Ravens in the first round the way they're playing,
I'd say Cyanara. But but I hear you, like, this
is this leagu's hard, And I think sometimes you know,
these teams get so caught up on these shiny targets.
It's like, let's use Diggs for an example. So you're
telling me the Bills, and listen, I know people with

(51:51):
the Texas they like Dicks, but even like he hasn't
been a personal personality problem. But let's just talk about
the player standpoint. The Bills, who have been one of
the best operations in the league minus like the Chiefs
for the last four years, are completely out on the guy.
You already have Nico Collins and Tank Dell, who are
clearly a good young nucleus. With Schultz, you're gonna add

(52:12):
a running back, Like your offense is not the line
of scrimmage, line of scrimmage, line of scrimmage, Yet you
go do that, Like, I think that's one where you're like,
we didn't need to do that. That's right, but that
doesn't make sense. We should have been extra aggressive for
another guard, for another center, for another d tackle. That's
where we're going to separate ourselves from the line of scrimmage.
They felt like they wanted to go more and be
this spread around team, and that's kind of what they

(52:34):
look like now. They're just kind of soft. Yeah, and
their offense gets shoved around today. I mean, one thing
the Titans have had all year long is their defense
is pretty good. Yes, you remove that game against the
Lions where they scored seventy five points. Like, the Titans
defense has not been the problem, and now will Levis.
I think the statistics over the last couple of weeks
have been a lot better on what have they been.
They've been a lot more competitive.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think you have to strongly consider
this quarterback class where Schner Sanders is the best product
project prospect. But it's not great. I mean, he's got
there's some ego, there's some emotion he holds on.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
I don't think he would have gone if you put
him in this last draft. Yeah, he doesn't go ahead
of Kleb. No, he does not. Jaden's more physically gifted.
I think there's I would say, above a fifty percent
chance that they still would go with Drake May in
New England, bigger arm, cold weather like that factors in,
so he wouldn't have even potentially gone definitely in the

(53:30):
top two, but probably in the top three of this
last quarterback class. That's not even a shock. I mean,
Drake May was Nick Saven tried to give him five
million dollars the previous year. Yeah, So I think sometimes
we act like Drake May was just this overdrafted scrub
and they got their butt kicked today. But he was.
He's a legitimate prospect coming out of college.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Well, and I think Sean Payton identified very early Bonnicks
was his Drew Brees. So Shaduur is benefiting greatly. Cam
Ward is a lot of backyard football, a very edgy
personality and and I'll just I'll leave it at that.
He's a very edgy personality, not for everybody. Jalen Milroll
is not very fluid, big strong kid, great parents, wonderful kid,

(54:13):
completely coachable. He's Anthony Richardson but better at this point.
But he's not a natural, like he can make great throws,
but he doesn't. He doesn't feel like he's played enough quarterback,
like he needs a lot of work. So my take is,
if I got Will Levis and I look at it
and I think, well, maybe Will's not Shador Sanders. But
if I if I've got five wins and I'm drafted nine,

(54:34):
I'm not moving up for Shador Sanders. I'm just staying
with will Levis for a year.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Yeah, and I think the you know, the thing with
Chadur and Dion combo. We'll see how that plays out.
Like Chadour, at the end of the day, it's been
awesome to watch. They've been a fun story, yes, but
physically gift, you know, physically gifted. You say Dion's son,
he doesn't run. I think he got his athletic genes
from mom because he is not the athlete, Like he's

(54:58):
not Josh Allen, he's not Lamar, not hurt, he doesn't
move like those guys. And his arm, like Joe Burrow
is the best version of this, Like that's his arm,
like Joe does not have some hose, right, And I've
heard people compare like that, Like his physical skill set
is that of closer to Joe Burrow. But I think
people think of you know, Shador Sanders that aren't watching
every snap of Colorado. He's like this dual threat player.

(55:21):
That is not his skill set you know at all.
Cam War to me, is much more of a dual threat. Yes,
and he's got a way bigger arm than.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Yeah. Cam's got a great arm.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
And to me, Quinn, you weres the thing with Jalen
Milroe and even Anthony Richardson throughout the history of the league.
Even let's say, you know, before these last three or
four years, those guys would have been like second round
picks or late late first round, like projects, and now
they get drafted a fourth and you're pulling your hair
out in year two. So I wonder if we kind

(55:54):
of swing back a little bit and everyone takes like,
would you rather have a huge project or just take
Travis Hunter with a third overall pick, right, That's what
I'd rather do, or the best left tackle or the
best pass rusher. And I wonder if we get a
shift back, because you just saw last year the Sunday
night game we're recording before, two of the best players
in that draft were Mitchell the dude. The Eagles took

(56:17):
the corner and Jared Verse the pass rusher, which historically
in a draft, the top corner in the top pass
rusher don't make it pass like pick seven. So I
think it's gotten a little out of whack, And I
wonder if the pendulum swings back a little bit, partly
because there's gonna be so much negativity on the quarterbacks.
You just watch college football It's all over the map.
Every single week.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
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Tampa thirty New York Giants seven, not a game I
care much about, but the Giants didn't show up twenty
three to nothing at half they trailed. The handling of
Daniel Jones obviously did not sit well with Giant players,

(57:47):
and there were guys that were pissed, and I was
sitting there. First of all, I don't think this is
even arguable. The Jets and the Giants are the two
most dysfunctional franchises right now in the league. Carolina feels
like they got a little bit of a life. Carolina absolutely,
Tennessee today felt like the win and the way they're playing,
they've got a little bit of a life. Chicago with

(58:08):
Caleb is fine, wildly entertaining four and seven team. I
think the Giants and the Jets are the two most
dysfunctional franchises in the league. I think New York probably
ends up having to take cam Ward is Brian da
bol safe. I would have absolutely bet the Farm four
weeks ago, but the way the team reacted they I mean,

(58:32):
teams don't quit very often in the NFL. I can
remember fifteen years ago an Arizona Cardinal team with Matt
Lioner in the snow in New England. Like I thought,
oh they quit. I felt like the Giants quit. I mean,
they didn't pursue on a couple of big plays. Is
Brian da Bole safe.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Well, I'm going to give him somewhat of a pass
this week because this is a management ownership decision. You
don't go with Tommy Chicken Palm. You just paid Drew
Locke five million dollars. We saw him last year on
Monday Night Football lead a game winning comeback against the
Philadelphia Eagles. He's a real player as a backup, and
he was paid as such. Well, why they go to
Tommy because he's this local hero, the you know, the agent.

(59:13):
I mean, it's, let's be real, it's a clown show.
I mean it's a circus. At least. The stuff with
the Jets right now is basically all just sourced articles written.
This was actual actions. They benched Daniel Jones, and this
is where I think the anchor comes from, which I
think Daniel's I talked about this on the podcast. He's
a good example of when you care like you put

(59:36):
more stock into the person and the character, which obviously
checks every box y. He's the perfect type guy over
the player. Yes, and I think they swung a little
too hard, and I think it's a testament to like
how good of a guy he is that all the
players the good ones really like him a lot, But
how could you take any like thing seriously if you're
a player in the backup all season long has been

(59:58):
Drew lock who's a real NFL player, and they go
to Tommy Cutlet's so right there, and I'm gonna give
day ball. I don't have inside information on this. That
feels like an ownership decision because part of it was
THEIRS incentives with Drew Locke. Obviously, they benched Daniel Jones
for money, which I understand, Like, I'm not against that.
You know, he's three and thirteen. As a starter, it

(01:00:18):
was over, it had run its course. But then to
go to the third string guy, who, let's face it,
they're going to him for a reason, just like so
you can talk about him if you win a couple
games as a fun story, and then he's a complete embarrassment.
I mean, they couldn't even function. I mean the Bucks
have been leac and Oil both teams off of Bye
and the Bucks looked like the O seven Patriots against them,

(01:00:40):
and I just think that that's a reflection. You know,
John mara is this really like presidential and regal family
the name, but that organization post Koflin in that final
season has been it's paralleled like the Raiders and the Jets.
It's no different. They run through. Coaches have these situations.

(01:01:01):
It goes back to the benching of Eli for Gino,
and this situation, to me is even five times worse
because of it's Tommy cutlets When you have a backup
that other teams wanted. John Schneider wanted to keep them.
And remember the Giants were like, you have a chance
to kind of start here if Daniel Jones isn't healthy,
but you paid them five million dollars and then you
go to him. I just think that one's a hard

(01:01:22):
one to shake, and then to lose like you did today.
So yeah, Brian day Ball, Joe Shane, who listen, I'm
not acting like Joe Shane's good and maybe Brian Dayball's
not either. But this has now become a John Mora operation.
Because do you believe that Brian Daball wanted Tommy Cutletz
to be the starter? No, he kept the ownership.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
No. I think I think sometimes, and I think fans
are pretty smart about this. I think there's so much
information now. Fans are better at betting games. They have
more information that it's impossible to overcome. Say Al Davis
the last seven years he owned the Raiders like he
just couldn't overcome it. He blame Ki and pled with him,
don't draft JaMarcus Russell, like you know, there's nothing you

(01:02:04):
can do. I think Jerry Jones right now is is hard.
Nothing against Mike McCarthy, but I mean, Cooper Rush is
more than efficient, more than capable the defense when health.
He's got some good players can make, you know, defensive stands.
I think they're these aging owners. I mean, I think
the Brown family in Cincinnati, they don't have an outdoor

(01:02:24):
practice facility. I mean you can tell Joe Burrows pissed.
He knows. I mean, they're not even paying T Higgins
or Jamar Chase yet, and they're moving off Joe Mixon,
giving him away for a seventh rounder. So I just
I look at the Giants and I think I always
thought they were well run. I always thought this was.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Like I always thought Dan Rouse with the Eagles. I
was like, this is a high level operation.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Listen, we know the Bidwell Arizona. You know, we know
the mccaskey's in Chicago, McNair's in Houston. We know the circuses.
Craft's well run. You know, Stan Cronkey non meddling. I
I always thought the Giants I always called him the
accounting firm of the league. Even when they won, they
were boring. I don't think I think they make bad hires.

(01:03:05):
I think Babel's not the problem. I hope he's safe
because I really do think he's smart. They have a
left tackle, a coach, and a star receiver and a
couple of defensive linemen. I like, I think there's some
elements there, but my guess is they're gonna end up
with cam Ward.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
You know. Let's use Jerry as an example. Though this
week there was a story on like Monday or Tuesday. Well,
I think Jerry created the story because he's seventh radio
hit of the week. He's asked the question about Trey Lance. Yeah,
and Jerry essentially said, we're trying to win. Cooper Rush
gives us the best chance. Jerry's the one that pulled
the trigger on the fourth round pick for the guy
he could easily say, so let's just roll him out.

(01:03:39):
It's worst case scenario. Maybe he just we strike oil
these last couple of weeks and we feel good and
we try to keep this guy or something. You know, No,
we're going with Cooper Rush. Why because he's our backup quarterback.
So for them to go to the third stringer that's
Tommy Cutlets in Jersey, it's like, yeah, this what an
embarrassing And then to have Baker and those guys basically

(01:04:01):
rubbed in your face today, you know, doing the money
signs that Cutlets was doing. That's one of those moments
where you start feeling again. You're dressed well, you look
the part, but your operation's starting to feel like the
Dolean Knicks for a long time now, right, Just you
guys have just I don't know, you have more name

(01:04:21):
cachet with the Mars and the Tisshes, but we have
to judge them now on the basic results in the
actions that we're seeing. It's crazy, Colin, and I'm not
defending like you can always when they bench Russell Wilson
and bench Derek Carr. Same thing. Money, we're not good enough,
We're not going to the playoffs. We don't want to
pay you twenty three million dollars. I'm fine with that,

(01:04:41):
but this is not the NBA where we just wave
the white flag every team. Look around football today, teams
are trying the Panthers that the Cowboys playing their asses off,
and you roll out the third string quarterback in the
middle of November. I mean, I went a couple weeks ago.
I'm like, go, the Cowboys are in trouble. Now. I
think Cowboys are gonna get back to wins like him
on Thanksgiving, now, don't you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
I want to talk about the Lions twenty four in
the Colts six. That was my upset pick of the week.
I thought Detroit it was just due true. Yeah, so Detroit.
I mean it's you almost never see this had thirty
seven to twenty two minutes time of possession. They're boringly methodical.
Anthony Richardson, they only had eleven first downs, he only
eleven completions. Again, I think I think he's Jalen Milroe.

(01:05:29):
I think Milrow is better at this point. But I
think the Colts again, I think with Shane Steichen, they're
going to stick with him another year. I just think
that's the ree. I don't I think if you draft
somebody in the first round and who's only played thirteen
college games, you have to stick with Anthony Richardson. But
I'm watching the Lions and I didn't play particularly well,
and the Colts had multiple opportunities in this game. This

(01:05:52):
Detroit is the most dominant NFL team since the Brady
Moss Patriots. It's incredible because Kansas City's won back to
back titles. Would you be shocked if Detroit went to
a Super Bowl and clobbered Baltimore, the Chargers, Buffalo or
Kansas City. And I mean with two weeks to prepare

(01:06:15):
in their healthy rolled, I mean, this offensive line just
takes the oxygen. When you play the Lions, you will
have no rhythm offensively because even if you score, you're
gonna sit and watch for eight minutes. They take all

(01:06:36):
of your rhythm away. And again, Anthony Richardson has eleven
first downs. But we've you know, Kansas City's trying to
find its offense. Baltimore's had these bad offensive showings the
good teams. Maybe Philadelphia is their kryptonite. But I watched
them today and I'm like, they didn't play well and
it's thirty seven to twenty two time of possession.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
I think the hard part about football is I thought
this exactly about the Ravens. I thought they were going
to roll through the playoffs. I loved him in the
AFC Championship game against the Chiefs, and I thought that
they were gonna end up playing the Niners, and that
I'd seen him beat the crap out of him on
Christmas and I expected it to happen again. And football
can be weird that way. Now, the difference is the
Ravens get off when the Lamar pass and him running

(01:07:20):
around Ratio gets off. The Lions their defense today was
really impressive. It's like we can win an ugly game
and you just there was a couple of moments where
they just forced long throw downs and you're like, ky,
they're they're missing players getting injuries and they don't. But
offensively where they don't hesitate is they got two backs yep,

(01:07:40):
So like their Lamar and their offense is the running
back duo and one guy will run it right up
your throat and break tackles and the other guy looks
like when he gets in the open, he looks like
Deon Sanders. I mean that guy can flock. And Jared
Goff made a couple of throws today on the move.
It was like, geez, like he's playing the best football
if his care The confidence that franchise has. But here's

(01:08:02):
the thing, and I remember in twenty nineteen when the
forty nine Ers were the one seed. It came down
to the last play of the season against Seattle, and
like the Dan Bunns two point zero dra green Law tackle,
they only have a one game lead. It feels like
they are running circles around the conference and the Vikings
are nine and two. The Packers today, you know, you

(01:08:22):
get that win against forty nine Ers, all of a sudden,
they went on Thanksgiving. They're only a couple games like,
their lead is not as big. Same thing with the Chiefs,
who've had this remarkable season. They've already been beat by
the Bills. They only got one game, so the Martians.
This is a great part about the NFL. But yeah,
I think the Lions would It would be stunning to
see them lose. Now where it would change if somehow
the home field fell out of favor and all of

(01:08:44):
a sudden, you know, they're the two even if they
won the division, but they had to go to Philly.
We'll see how Philly looks over the course of the next
three or four weeks. That would be very difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Well, right, I was thinking about this, you know, I
think both of us love Dan Campbell and what he's created.
Sometimes he can get very emotional, you know, last year
against the Cowboys, he gets very emotional. But I was
thinking to myself Andy Reid's and the other conference, you know,
John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, the other conference. The truth is

(01:09:12):
the next best team in that conference is Nick Sirianni,
and we don't trust him situationally, we don't trust him circumstantially.
So it's like there isn't sort of a wizard. Shanahan's
not going to be in the playoffs. Mcveigh's team doesn't.
I mean, I don't think they'll beat Philadelphia tonight as
we're going right now. So my thing is I worry

(01:09:33):
a little bit about Dan Campbell in situational football. But
those guys are on the AFC.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
You know, being with the quarterbacks, right, so we can
you know, you know, I get asked a lot about
your opinions and Nick Wright's opinions. Hey tell them this,
and you know the civilian comment on Nicks on Jared Goff, Well,
Jared Goff doesn't have to play Lamar Herbert, Joe Burrow,
Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes in the first, second, and
third round. He's gonna draw Jordan Love, who he plays

(01:10:01):
multiple times a year. He's gonna draw I don't know,
Geno Smith potentially, right, or Kyler Murray or Kirk Cousins.
So it's not even just the coaching, it's the quarterback matchup.
Like you went in last year the AFC Championship game.
You're like, listen, Mike McDonald, John Harbaugh. They have as
good of a chance as any coach who's played Andy Reid, Sweet,

(01:10:21):
Steves Pagnola over the last six or seven years, going
back to Belichick and Josh McDaniels. But then that quarterback matchup,
you're like, uh, Lamar's getting tight, Mahomes is loose. Well,
Jared Goff Watson last year he went toe to toe
with with Stafford in the first round, right, And this
goes back to a couple of years ago when they
didn't make the playoffs any ended Aaron Rodgers' career in Lambeau. Remember,

(01:10:44):
it was like, well, Jared Goff can't play outside. He
turns into a pumpkin. And that was a moment. And
I forget the date, but it had to be like
January fourth or fifth. He looked good, he was excellent,
have essentially the game winning passed the end of ice
the game, and ever since they've never looked back. Honestly,
they're they're a field goal decision from Dan Campbell of
potentially beating the Niners by a couple of scores. I mean,

(01:11:06):
they had the chance to kind of nail in the
coffin if he just kicks a field goal, unless we
can argue to we're blue in the face. But they
were kicking their ass, and so to me, then you
get the think about this, if they get the home
field advantage, you know, as the one seed, they only
have to win two games, and then the super Bowl
obviously is in a dome, which plays perfectly to them,

(01:11:28):
so their speed. Honestly, they would probably love to get
the Chiefs because how the Chiefs score with them? Yeah, right,
it gets a little more difficult. You know, if Lamar
can go on a run or Josh Allen go on
to run, because those teams can score points, and if
they got into a situation like that, they could go
toe to toe with them. But if they get into
a position where you know, the Chargers or the Bronco,

(01:11:48):
you know, one of these other teams. They would not
match up well against Detroit because Detroit gets twenty points
in their sleep right and if they're on, they get
to mid thirties. No problem, even with guys dropping like fly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
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Feed your lawn. Feed it, Okay. I want to spend

(01:13:09):
ten minutes on college football. So my prediction before the
year was Ohio State would lose at Outs and Stadium
would play Oregon again and beat them and would play
in the National Championship against the Texas Longhorns. So right now,
Texas and Ohio State, in my opinion, looked like the
two best teams along with Oregon. Notre Dame Penn State
also very very good. So again, it's big brands. You

(01:13:31):
could put seventy four teams in this tournament. It just
doesn't matter college football even more than college basketball because
you have to have depth in football because there's a
regulated level of violence. I thought, Ohio State, I think
Ohio State, Texas and Oregon feel like the best teams.
I thought it was interesting against Indiana. I thought the
game would be close. I liked the Buckeyes close. I

(01:13:52):
thought it was a real moment where everybody was selling me. BYU, No,
everybody is selling me Indiana. They just they look nervous.
Special teams, gaffes, they just didn't look they didn't have
the power, they didn't have the arsenal. They looked nervous.
And it was funny. Josh Howard got some crap as
they were rolling to a win. Signette's coat. Yeah, Will Howard.

(01:14:15):
Will Howard, who's a good quarterback. I don't know if
he's an NFL guy, but he's a good quarterback, big kid,
you know, makes play, don't.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Like him plays who were like, I'm kind of into this, Yeah,
I kind of like him. I kind of like him.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Somebody probably drafts him. He's hard to evaluate because they're
old lines historically, not this old line. But you know,
they've got NFL high round receivers and running back, so
he's a hard guy in Ohio. Stato's has so much
better personnel than everybody in the conference, you know, but
Michigan and Penn State on an annual basis. Now Oregon

(01:14:45):
has their kind of level of talent. But it was
funny watching Indiana get up there, and some people were
bothered by this gesture Will Howard did at the end,
and it's it's really funny. I'm like, guys, Indiana came
into that game, and for a team that has never
won a huge college football game in my life, I
thought came in with a lot of attitude and a

(01:15:07):
lot of a lot of bravado, and I had no
problem with Will Howard's gesture at all. And it's like,
if you're going to come into the ring against the
perennial world chaml okay, and you're talking shit, then if
they if they do a little gesture, I don't want
to hear about it. And you know, Colin, you didn't

(01:15:28):
like Baker Baker. Mayfield did about nine different gestures at Oklahoma.
This was Will Howard two seconds. But I kind of
found myself. I thought Indiana was obnoxious, a little cocky
coming into the game.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Yeah, well starts with the coach. I mean, he's got
a big opinion of himself. And the second half looked
like the little kids versus the big kids. And if
all these other teams hadn't lost as the day went on,
I would have had no problem leaving Indiana at home.
Listen to I like you, I didn't go to one
of these schools. Like I'm a Big ten guy or
an SEC guy. I'm just an unbiased lover of college football.

(01:16:04):
Anyone making the argument like just watch the games with
your eyes. We have the evidence of the NFL draft
picks where all the talent is. I'm watching the SEC
games on the road. You know, Oklahoma, I'm sure they
got five or six guys on defense They're going to
be drafted. And one these environments on the road are
so hard in the SEC. If you put Indiana in

(01:16:25):
the SEC, I think they struggle to sniff eight wins.
I think they get rolled, and obviously they benefited this
year from playing nobody. They just they're a great story
and I appreciate it. But up until all these other
teams with two losses lost last night, I would not
have cried for them if they didn't get the invite
to the dance. Now, just because of record, they probably will,

(01:16:47):
but I would bet on them to be one and done. Yes,
and see it and listen like I listen. I know
you talked to Clad a lot. I can't fathom watching
all these games and thinking the Big ten talent and well,
they're six and six and their six and six. We'll
just watch the two team play. Yes, watch the speed
of guys on defense at Auburn, who's I don't even

(01:17:07):
know what their record is five, they're gonna end up
going five and seven. The talent discrepancy between them and
Wisconsin on defense is fucking wider than the Grand Canyon.
And yet we argue this every year. It's like, guys,
take a deep breath, let's just watch the games and
go like, no one says that about the Big twelve.
We all acknowledge, Yeah, the Big twelve is a fun conference,
but it's not that talented. But we always argue, like
the Big ten in the SEC, Well, if you removed Oregon,

(01:17:30):
the Big Ten would be terrible this year, right, And
let's face it, this's not a Big Ten team. You
guys just got them this year. So it's like Ohio
State's carrying you. The rest of your conference talent wise
looks down. I watch the SEC, and I get it.
They got a lot of three and four lost teams.
The talent on their teams is night and it's just
harder to play more talented teams. On top of that

(01:17:52):
because of the television networks now they're playing all these
night games, these road night games against a bunch of
NFL defenders is way more difficult than the Is that
even arguable this year? No?

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
I mean I watched Oklahoma. I thought they played a
perfect football game against Alabama. They just were well coached,
They were buttoned up, their quarterback had movement, they they
were kind of they gave Alabama some fits. I mean,
I watched that game and I was like, Jesus, Oklahoma.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
They're good on defense. They have NFL guys on defense, well,
venables coach Clemson a bunch of pros, like he knows
what it looks like. Offense is gonna be a problem
for him, but no one's gonna argue that Venables in
his defense is gonna be good. No, and they handled Oklahoma.
I thought the same thing about Auburn. I'm like, I
don't know most of these players on Auburn. Shit, they
sure look good to me.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
And you're a former NFL scout y, yeah, I'm just.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
Like, but doesn't that jump out sometimes when you watch
these SEC games, even when their records like six and six, well,
you're like, listen, I know they're struggling to win games,
but they got talent on.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
The roster if it doesn't really matter how mny I mean,
I think Ohio State, Texas, Oregon, Notre Dame, and like
a like a Georgia Ole Miss. I don't really buy
Penn State. You know they've beaten them there.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Because they didn't play anybody and they only had the
one tough game.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
And they're lucky becaus Washington Miss.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
Is out probably right, But if you told me Old
Miss played Penn State on a neutral field, I'm taking
Old Miss.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
Som and I think Jackson Dart actually is going to
be like a second round pick. So I mean they
have the better quarterback. You know, it was funny, I.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
Florida is a good example, aren't they. I'm watching them,
and I'm like, you put them in the if they
made the twelve team tournament right now and they were
playing Penn State in the first round, where's most of
the money coming in on that game? Florida on Lagway
if he's healthy on Florida right and if you told
me Florida played Notre Dame, Like, I'm not saying that
Florida would win that game, but you can't tell me that,

(01:19:42):
like you would be surprised if Florida won.

Speaker 1 (01:19:45):
So I want to throw this at you. You know
my connection to USC. I'm a homer, so I was
saying this. It's it's not the South as La is distracted,
You're going to be more patient. Jen Cohen's not running
Lincoln Riley. The boosters aren't going to step up and
pay them the seventy million 's old or whatever it is,
or they're building a three hundred million dollar facility. The

(01:20:06):
nil collective at USC is thirteen million. They're not writing
another check for Lincoln Riley. But I was texting somebody
inside USC athletic department. I said, if you beat Penn
State in overtime this year and you had the opportunity
overtime at Coliseum, I said, you would have beaten LSU
Penn State, your rival with nine returners on offense. If

(01:20:31):
you just go get a quarterback like Oregon did in
the portal, you bring back the entire offensive line outside
of center, all of your receivers, all of your tight ends,
and you have you had a very good recruiting class
last year. Defensive line the best they've had since Pete Carroll,
but they all red shirted. And I'm like, you're a
quarterback and maybe a defensive tackle and a corner away

(01:20:53):
from being really interesting. And somebody said, hey, thanks for
the optimism, and I'm like, now that's what you really are.
Like with Brian Kelly, I don't know what I get.
Week to week USC's games, John, they all look the
exact same. They lead in the fourth quarter. I mean,

(01:21:14):
take the Michigan game out where it felt like they
were playing from behind, they were playing Chase. Every game
looks the same. They just don't. They're not good enough
at quarterback and they're too young on the offensive line
to seal it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
But I was.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
I was talking to a friend about this, and he's
in the South, and I said, it's just different out here.
It's not the beginning and end. They're not no boosters
riding a fifty million dollar check for Lincoln Riley. They
just paid three hundred million for facilities. And I said,
when I look at coaching, I said, do I get
the same kind of team every week? Brian Kelly's a
bit of a mess and he's not really likable people like,

(01:21:49):
you know, the players like Lincoln. They're not a lot
of guys transferring. The coaches like give me built a
nice staff. So my take on USC is they're the
advantage to being non sec is you get another year
to two. Shit, they kept Clay Helton around forever and
he was over his skis your thought on.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
USC, Yeah, I would fall under the USC guy that
you texted that you're a lot more optimistic than me. Yeah,
I mean, they're they're probably gonna get killed this week,
right and be six and six. So last year was
a devastating year for Lincoln, right, it was. It was
not thought of highly and they had a better record
than this year right in a conference too that was

(01:22:30):
really down. So you look back the Michigan and Minnesota.
Minnesota is actually pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
On the Washington did a rebuild, Michigan's did a rebuild,
and UCLA's and rebuild.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Here's the thing, like, let's use Texas analogy with Sark.
Sark started just buying sweet players and maybe it's more
just the Texas boosters and every it's a little more
aggressive there with football, Like they knew they were going
to the SEC. They have cared for a while, they've
been dying for like make money. Right, they were lined up.

(01:23:03):
I wonder if USC, so far removed from Pete, has
the same aggression, Like if there are six or seven
guys that can immediately change your organization or your program.
You know Caleb Downs, I saw you tweeting about him yesterday,
Who's immediately transfer portal? And really probably three teams put
all their chips in the middle tables, probably Georgia, Texas,

(01:23:24):
Ohio State. Right, Well, can USC start swimming in that
end of the pool. Because I do understand if I'm
a USC guy or a booster or someone around the
program like a liner, I go, well, I know for
a fact, given the rules that are at play now.
When we were here with Pete, we would have Caleb downs.
Maybe we don't get them, but he's definitely taking a
visit and having long conversations with all of us. And

(01:23:46):
it doesn't even feel like USC is dealing in that.
And like the slow build, like there aren't slow builds anymore.
You can quick flip it. And that's why everyone's down
on Brian Kelly. It's like, you guys are in year three?
What's going on here? Right? And that's where I wonder
if Lincoln is he going to recruit hard enough? Is
he going to be able to do that in terms
of like, listen, I'm not Ohio State guy, but I

(01:24:07):
do respect whoever the Caleb downs is this offseason. You
bet you're ass that it's Sark and Ryan Day on
the phone with that kid. Well, because they got the money.
Well does Lincoln out of them? And Dan Lanning?

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
Well the knock on Lincoln and I think it's fair
he doesn't recruit Southern California. Well, he has not engenered
himself to Southern California coaches. He can be prickly and
precious and sort of you know, he's a small town guy.
Sometimes he feels aloof and that does not work in
high school recruiting.

Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
Do they care enough? Look at Michigan's a good example. Right,
they had Harbaugh and they got that taste the last
three years and it was incredible. And then this year's
going couldn't be going much worse relative to what they've been.
All of a sudden, it's like LSU is getting this quarterback. No,
we'll rally the money, get Larry Ellison on the phone,
and all of a sudden, we have some package of
ten to twelve million dollars. I don't exactly. There are

(01:24:59):
a lot of discrepancies how the deals structured, but we
will pay you more than anyone else. Why because we
care that deeply. We care that deeply. And it feels like,
you know, when USC was in their heyday, they really
really cared. Oregon has maintained that right from Bellatti to
Chip to heal Rich to now through Landing. Well, hell
feels like it doesn't feel like USC cares enough.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
And I think that's fair. I think Jen Cohen, the
athletic director does. They're collective thirteen million, so they I
mean that people have stepped up. But the economy in
Los Angeles is bigger than almost you know, it's bigger
than Canada's, so it's you know, are certainly thereabouts. So
it's fair question.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
Shouldn't SHOULD'TY be able to outbid some of these? You know,
if LSU and Alabama want a kid in the transfer
portal and they're willing to pay X, shouldn't they pay
X plus another twenty percent?

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
I am the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Yes. I mean it's if you look at sports from baseball,
I mean, there are salary caps, but I think players
know who's committed. I mean you can see it in
the NFL like free agency, like people know Philled has
committed people, San Francisco has committed, Chicago's not, and players
can sniff it. Players can see it and smell it
and feel it. And I think your questions are what

(01:26:11):
I hear from my friends, and I'm probably more patient
and too optimistic. I think that's that's reasonable. I will
say this, and I heard it again today from somebody
I trust. The fastest rising quarterback is going to be
Jalen Milroll. He can be a bit robotic, it doesn't
look pretty. But if Minnesota keep Sam Darnold as you're suggesting,

(01:26:34):
and many will. There's gonna be seven teams that need
a quarterback. Somebody's taken that guy. I mean if the Raiders,
I mean we know the Raiders, Giants are taking quarterbacks.
You start looking around this league, it's gonna be another
three teams taking quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:26:48):
I don't I'm not trying to pivot away from college.
But we didn't talk about this guy in one quarterback
move could obviously swing if a team needs the guy,
and clearly this team does. But Rogers and wood Johnson
at each other's throats. You are you shocked at uh
Poshins than his owner. He's never had an owner, and
now you know they're going at it. You can tell

(01:27:09):
like some of these leaks coming out about Aaron, who
do you think is leaking that? I would defend Aaron
of like not doing the scans that was the story,
because he just goes these guys are gonna leak anything
that comes out. So it's I don't trust anyone here
in everyone's well, he doesn't trust anyone. I think this
is a specific thing. He's already going this Jets. But
this gets back to Aaron. You had a pretty good

(01:27:30):
in Green Bay. This is what a dysfunctional team looks like.
And now you're looking at this crazy owner, all these
people in the building. You don't trust any of them,
Like this is what shitty NFL dysfunction is. And you
signed up for this. You wanted this, You wanted out
of Green.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Bay Well Woody Johnson, Robert Sala, they played Aaron's vanity.
They flew out to Malibu. They you know, got in,
got into his house and sat down with Aaron, and
you know that stuff. Aaron wasn't heavily recruited.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
He gave a first round pick for him. Who else
was giving up a first round pick for the thirte Aaron.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
Aaron went to a junior college. Aaron went to cal
Aaron wasn't heavily recruited. I totally get Aaron, you know,
being seduced. He had to. Then he goes to Green Bay.
He sits behind this Messiah far I get Aaron Rodgers
being seduced by the pitch, Like, I totally get it.
It's like these high school guys that go to the
G League. You know, they never get pitched by a

(01:28:23):
Bill Self or or you know, some elite coach. They
don't get they don't get pitched. So when they eventually
do the first time, you know. And so I think
the two things that I would say about Aaron Rodgers won.
He got very after that Super Bowl. He got a
little snarky, a little passive aggressive in Green Bay, and

(01:28:43):
he had a lot of leverage because there's no owner
to tell him to just settle down. There's no owner,
And I felt far of an Aaron Rodgers couldn't be
different people. But in the end, for both of them
at Green Bay, there wasn't an owner to sit them
down and say you want to be here or not,
and they kind of manipulated Gouden Kunst or whoever the
GM was during FARV they kind of you know, Mark

(01:29:06):
Murphy was there. But I always call it the Green
Bay Packer quarterback syndrome. There's no owner to call you
out on your stuff. And so I think Aaron, you know,
got seduced. And then he goes to New York and
he figures, you know, they got a good roster like
Brady and Tampa. He get roster. The sala is a
good looking guy from the Niners. So that's the first lesson.

(01:29:26):
The second thing, though, we have to be completely upfront
about here is I'm just going to start naming quarterbacks
in their prime in the NFL. Mahomes, Allen Herbert, Lamar Goff,
Sam Donald Frankly right now, Sam Darrow, Joe Earle, Jalen Hurts,

(01:29:48):
Kyler Murray, who didn't play well today. He's not close
to those guys. John Aaron's Jordan Love is probably a
year away from being in his prime because because we're
where he sat for years. Aaron doesn't look like Justin Herbert.
He doesn't look like any of those guys.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
He doesn't look like Geno Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
He doesn't Gino made some big off script plays today
against Arizona like Aaron is. The other day, I was
just writing down names. I was sitting here at home,
you know, watching something. I'm writing down names. I got
to about seventeen, and I'm like that, that's kind of
what he is. Right Like, We've got to be honest.

(01:30:28):
The grass is nose greener, and Aaron's an under earthing
I was told years ago about Aaron. He's not a
grinder like Drew Brees. In the offseason. You can tell
John forget football players. You can tell when somebody takes
care of themselves in life. You can see if they've
had too much to drink in their life. You can see,
you know, the ruddy complexion. You can see when people

(01:30:49):
are overweight. You can see when people haven't taken care
of things. You can walk up and you know, look
somebody up and down in thirty seconds and say they've
lived hard, they've dried too much, they've eaten poorly. Aaron
did not have a reputation who's aging well. You know,
Brady aged well. Breeze lost his arm, but you know

(01:31:10):
aged well. Big Ben did not right. And so I
think with Aaron he's aged very quickly. And part of
it was his off seasons were Aaron's. He's he's he
worked out, but he wasn't a grinder. He wasn't he
wasn't obsessed with it like Peyton Manning. And again I'm

(01:31:31):
not saying mahomes can't get a dad bod for three
weeks and shut it down. But I think Aaron has
aged poorly. I think he's aged very quickly.

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think that injury last year accelerated
the process at an exponential rate. And this year you
got a guy that you know, it's probably a couple
feet away from being out of the league. You know,
so these stories, whether they you know him and Woody,
they end up cutting him or the season plays out.

(01:32:01):
I don't think he has other options, and a lot
of other players always say, well, he's got this resume
at forty forty one years old, make a lot of money.
The headaches Now, I think I'm not saying that it's
a one percent no one touches him, but it falls
off quick, right, And I think once you get this reputation,
there's a lot more quarterbacks in the NFL, Like, would

(01:32:22):
I rather have Sam Darnold's for fifteen twenty million dollars
or take a chance on Aaron Rodgers, especially if I'm
a new coach, right, some of these coaches that it's
my first year, like let's just let's just settle everything down.
And I think it's proven that Aaron's not gonna settle
everything down type of guy.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
John Middlecoff Three and Out is his podcast at the Volume,
former NFL scout. We chopped it up for an hour
and twenty two minutes. It looks like to me, as always,
John great, great talking.

Speaker 3 (01:32:54):
The volume.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
Thursday night Football is on. It's only on Prime video.
Best season yet pack with big, big rivalries and even
bigger stars al Michaels, Kirk Kurbstreet, Kaylee Hartung. Every week
Games you can't miss. Coverage begins at seven Eastern with
Football's Best Party TNF Tonight Thursday Night Football Tonight. If
you're not a Prime member, no problem, sign up thirty
day free trial, cancel any time Thursday Night Football and

(01:33:18):
it's on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. Seeamazon dot com slash
Amazon Prime for details.

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Colin Cowherd Podcast - Saquon For MVP? 49ers Need A Reboot, Lions Offense Is Dominant, Bo Nix Surpasses Jayden Daniels, Vikings QB Controversy?

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