First, (3:00) Colin explains why constant Aaron Rodgers’ offseason talk is a no-brainer, and how Michael Jordan selling his stake in the Hornets pokes another hole in his carefully crafted mythology.
Then, The Athletic NBA Writer Marcus Thompson joins Colin to discuss the many unknowns surrounding the extended absence of Andrew Wiggins and if he could miss the playoffs (16:00), if the Warriors are still a serious playoff contender (21:00), if the lingering effects of the Draymond/Poole punch has contributed to their abysmal road record (26:00), if Steve Kerr could walk as soon as this offseason (28:00), Klay Thompson's unexpected and sustained resurgence (30:00), and how far he’s willing to dig on the Wiggins story (36:00).
Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #Volume
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Episode Transcript
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(01:51):
welcome in Friday Morning Podcast. One of my favorite guys
in all the media, Marcus Thompson, works for the Athletic
Marcus is really good. He's written several books, one on KD,
one on Steph. Curry does a great job, has really
close relationships with guys on that team. We're gonna ask
him about the Andrew Wiggins situation. Draymond Green's not going
to play against Atlanta, So no Wiggins, no Draymond Green.
(02:14):
This team is abysmal on the road. We'll talk about that.
A lot of issues, So give me six or seven
minutes on this. I've spent this week overwhelmingly on one topic,
Aaron Rodgers to the Jets, And I know at times
it feels tedious, but you know, I've something I've said
probably twenty five times in my thirty year career about
(02:35):
my shows radio or TV, is that you the consumer,
You the listener. You drive the bus. So I'm able
to because I'm on cable television, to see every minute
of my ratings every day. You can't do that on
broadcast TV, but you can do it on cable and
I monitor it, and I monitor it for one reason.
You tell me what you're bored with. You tell me
(02:56):
what you're interested with. I think the height of arrogance
as a broadcast is pretending I know every day what's
most interesting, so I follow you and I I And
this has happened to me multiple times over my career
that I've loved a topic, just thought it was absolutely
wonderful and fascinating, and the next day I see my
(03:16):
numbers and you didn't give a shit, and so I
move off the topic. There are things that interest me
far more that interest you. And conversely, there are times
I've touched on topics and I'm really shocked by how
much you care. So that it's my job to make calls,
take better notes, figure out why you like it, and
talk about it. So in the Aaron Rodgers situation of
(03:38):
the Jets, it's the combination of multiple things. The most
popular sport in the country the NFL, the most crucial
position quarterback, one gigantic iconic brand, the Green Bay Packers,
and the most polarizing quarterback in the most popular sport,
Aaron Rodgers. So this week I can watch my downloads,
i can watch my cable ratings. They've all been really,
really good. So I'm going to spend a couple of
(04:00):
minutes on this. I listened to most of the comments
the clips from Aaron Rodgers on the YouTube Pat McAfee deal,
and you know, that's a friendly place for him to
go every week, and I have no problem with that.
I used to defend our Cineo Hall all the time
when people would bang on our city of the Hall
and they said, well, you know, people go on there.
(04:21):
He asked puff fluffy questions and my takeaways. It's called
the Arsenio Hall show. He can do whatever he wants.
It's his show. You know, some people have said, well,
McAfee's just it's a comfortable place for Aaron to go,
and my takeaways, it's pat show. He's a punter, you're
not a journalist. He can do anything he wants with it.
I can do anything I want with my show. But
I'm not a former professional athlete. I don't have a
(04:42):
relationship with Aaron, so I'll defend any broadcaster. This is
not the New York Times. I'm in the opinion space.
I've said before, I liked Aaron Rodgers more than Brett Farve.
I think he's smarter, I think he's more thoughtful. He's
a unique guy. Why wouldn't be my kind of guy
to hang out with? But that's okay. You know, there's
(05:04):
a lot of great athletes. You know, Tom Brady doesn't
have a beer during the season. I probably wouldn't hang
out with him either. I'm drinking one right now. Her
draft picks, by the way, Pilsner. But I do think
the most shocking revelation to me is that Aaron Rodgers
after the retreat said ninety percent going in he was
going to retire, and then he came out and was
surprised the packers moved off him. It's just remarkable to
(05:27):
me that a guy that's that smart would lack any
self awareness. And I'll double down on this, when you're
the center of your universe and you ghost people, Aaron
has a history of ghosting people who say anything critical
of him. You surround yourself with yes men, and nobody
called him out on his ship. You know, my wife
calls me out on mine. My kids do. I got
(05:48):
friends that do. I have bosses that would. And so
the packers have never had an owner, right, they don't
have an owner who calls him out in his stuff.
If Green Bay had an owner, Aaron Rodgers would not
take eight to nine weeks to make up his mind.
If Jerry Jones or Stan Cronky would call him up
and say, pal make a decision or we're moving on.
So it looks like that's an advantage not having an owner,
(06:09):
But I think it's a disadvantage. It's a disadvantage for
Farv who kept threatening retirement. It's a disadvantage for Aaron
who kept threatening retirement. And neither guy had anybody that
would demand they give him an answer. And then Aaron's
not married you know, he didn't have anybody to call
him on his crap like our wives do, right, And
so I really do think I call it the Green
(06:31):
Bay quarterback syndrome. No owner, smallest city, you basically own
the franchise. And I think ownership at its best is
non meddling, is highly supportive. But but will hold coaches,
star players accountable. That's Robert Kraft. He said, no, we're
(06:52):
not going to trade Tom Brady, We're moving off Jimmy Garoppolo.
It was the right move. Brady still had Super bowls
with New England and Tampa left in the tank, and
Garoppolo's a B quarterback. Some would say SC quarterback got
to a Super Bowl, maybe a C plus. So I
think the lack of ownership has really hurt Green Bay.
(07:12):
The other thing is they've been overly frugal. An owner
can sometimes step in and say go get that free agent,
make it work. They don't have that. So in the end,
sometimes in life, things you see as an advantage can
be a real disadvantage. And it may feel like for
far Aaron Rodgers, it's such an advantage not having that hovering, meddling,
(07:34):
powerful billionaire. But I think in both cases Farven Rodgers
kind of took advantage of it, had leverage, manipulated, used it,
and in the end the franchise booted both. I do
think Jordan Love can play. I don't think he's going
to be great. If he was going to be great,
if he was Mahomes or Borrow, they would have already
moved off Aaron, not given him an extension. Didn't take
(07:56):
very long one training camp a month in September to
figure out Mahomes was really good. Let's move off Alex Smith,
who was a pro bowler and making the playoffs when
they moved off him. I also don't think he's Zach
Wilson or EJ. Manuel, where you know instantly it doesn't work.
He's somewhere in between. My takeaway is if you look
at who the Packers play next year and the quarterbacks
(08:18):
they play on average in the NFC, they want eight
games this year with Aaron, I think they're about an
eight to nine win team next year with Jordan Love,
barring some injury. I do think they're gonna get this
deal done. I think they're going to get either a
first round pick or a really good player from the
New York Jets. But I don't see them capsizing at all.
I do, however, find it absolutely remarkable that Aaron Rodgers
(08:42):
was surprised when he came out of the darkness retreat
his words, not mine, and the Green Bay Packers had
decided to move on. Wow, you could be pissed. That's different.
You could be upset. Okay, you can't be surprised for
the second third year in a row talking retirement. You
(09:06):
can't be surprised. You're not allowed to be surprised. As
an adult with a functioning brain, you're not allowed to
be surprised. So Michael Jordan is reportedly selling his shares
in the Charlotte Hornets. You know, it's really interesting about
Michael Jordan. So he tried baseball, he failed. He tried ownership,
(09:27):
he was awful. He tried the Wizards, it bombed. Everybody
understand that. Take out Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson. This
whole Michael Jordan mythology is sort of just that he's
arguably the greatest basketball player of all time, but he's
(09:50):
done a lot of stuff. Never the golfer he claimed
failed at baseball. Bad NBA personnel guy, not a very
strong owner Hornets have been mediocre and uninteresting forever. He
was a great, great basketball player, and I always thought
(10:12):
where Lebron is clearly superior to Michael Jordan is Lebron.
His game is his personality. He's a giver. He's a
very giving guy. He likes on the floor to elevate players.
I never thought Michael necessarily elevated all his teammates. He
took shots away from Quentin Daily, Orlando Woolridge, Scottie Pippen,
(10:32):
Tony Coo, coach. Michael took shots away from others Lebron.
Think about Lebron's career. Who hasn't played their best basketball
with Lebron James. He elevated everybody. I mean j R.
Smith worked late in his career with Lebron James. It
was Kyrie's best basketball, Shane Battier his most important shots.
(10:55):
Everybody works with Lebron, from his schools to his style,
who his game, do his businesses. He got multiple partners.
Michael was always a bit of a selfish player. He's
a bit of a selfish guy, and he's not great
at building community. He's great at building wealth. For Michael Jordan,
that's fine. It's not a criticism, it's a reality of
(11:17):
who Michael is. I don't think he made everybody else better.
He failed with multiple coaches, he failed without Pippin, He
failed in baseball, he failed in Washington, He failed as
a GM and an owner in Charlotte. What he was
was a great basketball player, very self centric. He was remarkable.
He deserves to be the first or second best basketball
player of all time. The three best I've ever seen
(11:39):
that weren't centers, MJ. Lebron and Magic Johnson, and they're
a notch above even the Tim Duncans and Larry Birds
not counting centers. But it's not a surprise. Michael's always
had a small group of friends, very loyal to that
small group of friends. But he doesn't have the ability
(12:02):
or the interest to be more of a Lebron to
help others beyond his circle. That's not really what Michael is.
That he only recently started some very noteworthy giving, some
public giving to either a political process or a charity.
I'm not saying he hadn't done it for years privately.
(12:24):
And that's not a criticism of Michael. Again, it's just
his reality. But you know, if you look at Magic
Johnson and Lebron James. Their games are very similar because
their personalities are very similar. They have a large community
of friends and allies and their givers at their core,
(12:44):
and it's made Magic one of the richest athletes of
all time and Lebron one of the richest athletes of
all time. But it's also enriched others where Michael's often
just been about Michael. Get off the bench at the NBA.
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(14:38):
All right, let's bring on Marcus Thompson. I've said this
before in my career. My job is to tell you
what I know, but I don't always need to know
the why. Sometimes it's none of my business. Uh. The
Andrew Wiggins situation is really none of my business. I
know it's very serious. It's a family matter. What I
was told, and now I have two people that have
(15:01):
said it's really really serious. The Warriors totally support him,
but there is some doubt if he'll be available going forward.
There's no certainty. There's real doubt. So let's bring in Marcus.
You know a lot more than I do. I have
been told it's extremely serious, and the Warriors completely respect
(15:23):
his privacy. And so again, that's none of my business.
I'm not talking anybody's fam that's none of my business.
Let's talk about availability. You're reporting, you're sourcing, you're guessing.
Is it a reasonable assumption that he would miss the
regular season but perhaps be a postseason participant? You know,
(15:44):
it's possible, depending on who you talk to. There's some
people who expect him to be back. There's some people
who don't want to put that on him, right, Like, hey, dude,
what you gotta do? We don't really want to pressure you, right,
you know, you got to handle this. The difficulty about
that proposition of missing the regular season to come back
from the playoffs is who you're getting. I mean, that's
(16:08):
two months, two months of no basketball. I doubt he's
picked up the ball a ball, right, I have to
guess his condition. It wouldn't be great, so it would
be a tall order to ask him. And then we
don't know what his mental condition will be. We know this,
this dude doesn't miss games, like he just doesn't. I
mean his first six years he missed like four total games. Like,
(16:30):
he doesn't miss games. So whatever it is, it's got
to be it's incredibly serious. Whatever it is. There's a
locker room with dudes who want to win a championship
who are like, oh, this is bad, Like you handle that, like,
we're not even mad. So I don't know how. I
don't know how you come back from that in the
middle of a playoff setting and produce. I mean, we've
(16:51):
seen crazy things, but that would be a lot to ask.
So I think they just have to start preparing mentally
for the fact that he won't be there, and if
he comes, like, that's a bonus. Yeah, I mean they
wanted Jonathan Kuminga perhaps to develop. He's very twitchy, very athletic,
can be very forceful around the rim. They wanted him
(17:13):
to develop. He doesn't have the touch. He's not the
defensive player yet of Wiggins, but he's wildly athletic. But
if you could get twelve minutes a night. He didn't
do squat in the playoffs last year because Kurt didn't
trust him yet. Do you think Steve Kerr trusts him
because Iggy now has an injury? How many minutes per
night in the playoff game do you believe Steve Kerr
would be comfortable with Jonathan Kuminga. I don't really think
(17:36):
he has a choice. I mean, the other option is
a two way guy that they're probably going to convert,
Anthony Lamb. So I mean, geez, Comigo is never seven pick.
I do think he does a couple of things that
the words could use, Like he's a ball pressure. He's
good at that, so at some point they'll use him.
I think it's somewhere between twelve forty minutes, depending on
(18:00):
how he plays. Right, he'll probably get twelve baked in
maybe fifteen if they're not good, especially in that second half,
then he just won't go back to him. Like that's
that's kind of how Steve has been. If he's playing
really well, if he's giving somebody problems, now you up
it because they need it. They don't have a lot
(18:20):
of other defensive options, right, Like they don't have a
lot of lockdown guys. I mean, here's the interesting part.
Does Gary Payton's second make it back? And how does
that impact? Because if if you don't get Wiggins and
you don't have a GP two, the only other guy
who can do what they what they do is doctor division,
Zoe and Jonathan and that's it. The rest is like
(18:42):
y'all beat you off the dribble. So it's almost like, yo,
what do you have to lose anyway, just run out there.
If you don't win, you probably are the seventh seed anyways,
So would you expect, Well, Clay Thompson's having his best
year and maybe sex he is absolutely great, Jordan pool
Deep and Genzo Steph Curry had fifty against the Clippers.
(19:03):
So it's a team that's guard heavy and if things
don't work out with the loss, with the movement of
Wiseman and Wiggins, they're a small team, and they're not
going to be as good defensively. So you know I've
said this before, I've thrown this out there, is that
because Steph can still be on any night the best
player in the league on any night against anybody, Clay
(19:25):
has rebounded with an all star level second half in performance.
Draymond is still a catalyst. Wiggins, we presume would come back.
I'll throw it out there. If they got into the
playoffs and got pushed around by a big, forget em
beat or Jannis. I'm talking Yokich. They got pushed around
a little bit by a big. They have the arsenal
(19:47):
of guards now, especially scoring guards. They're not moving Steph,
but Jordan Poole, you know they've got enough guys they
could move this team. I still believe, bullieves we got
a championship left. Could you see them going out and
getting And I'll throw a big at you. You don't
(20:07):
have to. He'll give you twenty two points a night
without designing a single play for him. Anthony Davis and
just say, listen, we know you're not giving us thirty
eight minutes, and we know you're not giving us eighty
two games. We're not asking that and because I look
at the Warriors and I think to myself, right now,
I've lost confidence without Wiggins and Iggy, I don't think.
(20:29):
I don't think they can get to the NBA Finals.
I don't now the break is of course, Marcus k
D's out, and you know that's a big thing. And
I don't trust the Clippers. Have you let's start with this,
Have you lost confidence in this team going forward getting
to the finals? Yeah, no question. They can't win on
(20:51):
the road. They lose the teams they should beat. I
always thought it was gonna be tough anyway, Like repeating
is not easy, Like it's not that's all of teams
to do it. So even if they brought back the
same team, it's not like when they had KD and
it was like, all right, we're we're about to repeat,
Like normally it gets harder in the second year. But
(21:11):
now I think they're they'll upset somebody. Right That third series, though,
would be tough, because whatever they do, it's gonna be
on stuff. It's gonna be on play, right, it's gonna
be on Dremond. And now it's like you you fight
through one series, right, you upset somebody, you get another series.
That's gonna be harder. Now you can start to see
(21:32):
it take toll because keep in mind, they've been playing
hard all year. It's not it's not like twenty eighteen,
twenty nineteen where they were chilling on like all right,
we're here for the finals run like, No, they've been
They've been trying to beat teams. So the difficulty I
see is they've been putting in a lot of work
and on the back end that catch us up. We've
(21:53):
seen this before twenty sixteen. They chase seventy three, you know,
got up three one and the legs are gone right,
and that's obviously a better setting for them, But it's
just tough to envision and winning three series to get
to the finals and then't win in a four for him, like,
that's a lot. I just think they need to have
(22:13):
a good showing and if they knock off YO Kids
or knock off KD, that's something real. Now you're talking
about all right steps still legit? Who were keeping out
of Draymond and in Clay or maybe Draymond's like, yo,
I'm out, I got an opt out. Somebody wants to
pay me a max, I'm out. Those are the decisions.
Here's I don't think the reason. I don't think they'll
(22:34):
go Anthony Davis, the owner, wants to go young. That
was the whole Wiseman thing. I don't want a bunch
of thirty five year olds so when they fall off,
we're like a lottery team. Again. He doesn't want to
do that. He wants somebody young. He wants to swap
out Steph and make it a seamless transition to the
next guy. So I think he'll want a guy who's
young here, ready to play. He wanted Steve Kirks, who
(22:56):
played the young guys this year. So I don't think
he's going on thirty plus. He's going he might go
twenty five. That might be the compromise instead of twenty one.
It'll be twenty five. It's there, but it won't be
It won't be another thirty something unless he just decides,
let's ride the wheels till they fall off with Stephen them.
So most have observed and speculated that the Draymond Pool
(23:21):
punch created a bit of a rift and a chasm
between young and old guys in the locker room. And
they note, and I think with some accuracy, that it's
a bad road team, and on the road is where
unity factors in. There's almost no explanation Marcus for being abysmal. Shit,
They're as bad as the Rockets in the Orlando Magic
(23:42):
and Detroit on the road. Do you believe it? Does?
It does feel like this is maybe a clickier team,
that the gap between young and old is sizable. Oh,
I thought that that was true from the beginning. I
mean it's like literally like a red sea in between them, right, Right,
I got the old hands who wants championships, and then
you have like the homeroom squad. Right, you have the
(24:04):
Hall of Fame, and you got the home room. They
got six guys who like haven't done much before in
the league, and then you have this super high bar
of championship standard. Right. It was already like that, I mean,
just tangibly just thinking about who they are at their ages, right, Like,
I mean, Steps is the nicest guy in the league. Right,
(24:26):
he gets along with everybody, but he's thirty five. He's
got like kids and stuff, like he's got an IRA councilabusites,
like he's got hanging out with twenty one year old
like he'll do you know, he could put his arm
around the guy in the locker room and all that,
but got teenage daughters. They just don't have anything in common.
And you could look in the locker room and you
could say, is this is this team looks like they're
(24:50):
having a bit of fun. There's some like gelling that
you probably didn't think happened after somebody got rocked in
training camp, right, but what's to you can't really there's
this like u intangible part of the punch that you
can't quantify, right, Like what happens if they don't have
that and they get off to a start in the
(25:11):
chemistry is great, and now they don't lose five straight
road games to start the season, Like it's like it's
almost like not saving money. You know what I'm saying.
You don't lose money, but you don't know you don't
know what you would have done if you would have
invested it, right, So we don't know how that impacted
the season. All we know is they got off to
a rough start. It was kind of a mess and
(25:32):
it felt like a set of tone for the season.
So even if they're fine now, right, even if they're
like they've overcome in and gotten through it, there was
a cost that they paid that we can kind of
see now. And I think it again on the road
first out the back five game road trip, they lose
in the Charlotte and Orlando right like, and they're playing
(25:53):
like Stephano It's not like they had a bunch of
young guys. They weren't able to close against bad teams
to start that on five road trips out a tone.
So I think there is an intangible like costs from that,
even if they might have gotten through it. And since
well Steve Kerb played GM broadcasting and coached, he's got
(26:13):
a lot of money, He's got a lot of interests.
It could be surfing, it could be travel, and coaching
in this league is a real grind. As this dynasty,
I don't think it's winding down. I still think it
has legs for the next two to three years because
I think Steph is you know. I think at some
point they could go to Steph and say, listen, we're
(26:33):
gonna have you play sixty games. That's what you're gonna
play in the regular season. You pick your spot. I
think that's the next step, and that may be next
year because shooters can last a lot longer than like
a Westbrook who's a hyper athletic guard, and they lose
the athleticism. Not the same guy. Steph can play for
the next five years and hit jumpers. The key is
twenty six minutes fifty eight games. They're not quite there yet.
(26:56):
But let me ask you about Steve Kerr. He defended
Draymond and has before. In fact, it's very interesting to
me this year particularly, he has been so positive about
Draymond publicly, gone out of his way publicly, so much
so that I notice, where do you think Kerr is
(27:17):
at with the dynasty himself, Draymond, the age bridge. Where
is he at when you cover him nightly? He seems
to be in a place where he like kind of
likes the challenge of coaching, right Like, it seems like
he likes the struggle of training young guys and teaching them,
except he don't really play them like. It's it's kind
(27:39):
of weird. When he talks, it sounds like it sounds
different than it looks right He like he'll say, oh,
this young guys really developed. I love Moses Moody. Moses
Moody great, and Moses Moody doesn't play. I think the
decisions with the roster at the beginning of the year
kind of created a chasm that they're gonna have to
(28:00):
figure out an off season. Like, here's the other thing.
It's Bob Myers coming back. Bob Mars doesn't have a contract.
That's that could be. I mean, we're looking at Draymond
is like, what is Draymond gonna do? Bob Myers might
be the domino that changes things. And then, like you said,
Steve's got so many interests. If it gets too different,
so Steve stick around. Steve could go do whatever he want.
(28:21):
That's one of the things I love about Steve, Like
he's like, yo, I can leave tomorrow. I'll be great. Yeah,
my life is good, right, Like it's fine Steve forever.
Steve's on a short list of the smartest people that
have ever been in this league. He's got a million interests.
It's like he just has that comfort in his felf
where it's like where other people are making decisions to
keep a job, Steve is like, yeah, I'm gonna do
(28:42):
what I think is best. And if you want to
fire me, fire me. But I got eleven thousand rings,
so I'm good. I'm just like there was definitely a
thing between the front office and the coaches staff, like no,
not playing wise, but not playing comedic and not playing moody, right,
playing two way guys over him, Like he seems to
(29:04):
enjoy this position of what we want. We gotta do
what's best for us, and I'm just gonna coach how
I want to coach. It's got to be pretty free.
But you know, the owners like, yo, I'm invested in
all these young players, like we need to prepare four
in five years. So when you talk to him, when
you hear him, he sounds like a coach who's kind
of yeah, this is how you build. We're building something
(29:26):
like we're growing. But then when you see him like coach,
he's like, yo, I'm trying to win, like I run
of guys I think can win. But it's interesting here
he's so like at peace with himself. I think just
about everything he does, there's a sense of comfort to it, right,
Like even even when you if you're critical Steve and
(29:48):
he brings it up to you, it's not how could
you say that? He's like, yeah, let's talk about sure,
Sure there's criticism, right, Like, I'm gonna talk to you
about it, and it's fine. Because I already know who
I am, right, So it's it's a it's a it's
a weird space to be in because the owner is like,
why aren't you playing Wiseman? Why aren't you playing Cominga
(30:08):
And he's like, yeah, I'm trying to win, and I
do what I want because I'm Steve Kerr. Right. Well,
I also think, um, if you look at the player.
I've been saying this on the the air recently when
they bring players in, there's a common thread why they work,
and it's not offen ig Iggy works, he's a willing defender.
Katie worked a willing defender. Wiggins worked a willing defender.
(30:31):
DeAngelo Russell didn't like, you gotta play defense. Steve Kerr
may have been a three point shooter. We may view
this as an offensive dynasty, but if you're not willing
to put your body out there, this shit ain't gonna work.
When I watched Wiseman, I never thought he was a fit.
I also think this is a very heavy offense. It's
a catch and react offense. I think it's really hard
(30:54):
for young players. And so I watch almost every Warrior
game to some degree or I'm all over the box
scoring the highlights. Shit, man, this is not this is
not remedial stuff. To some degree, could I not defend
Steve Curran say it's probably the most complicated offense in
the league. It's it's definitely advanced out of patrigue, right,
(31:18):
maybe maybe calculus in some sense. You have to have
played basketball to understand, like it's a lot of little stuff.
He's always talking about quick decisions. Right point, you got
point five seconds to make a decision, decide what you're
gonna do. That's just not how young players roll, man,
that's not And the unique part about all this it
(31:41):
is the players day selected was basically a pitot. It
was like, all right, Steph is hurt, plays out. We
have no idea what the dynasty is going to be,
or if it's what we're going to be in the future.
They went fifteen and fifty. Remember they didn't even make
the bubble a draft wise man, because that's like, all right,
we have to figure out how we're gonna play now
(32:02):
without these generational talents. Steph comes back and he's like,
oh yeah, yeah, I'm still a superman. And now it's like,
wait a second, let's let's continue playing how we play
and his first year back was a bunch of dudes
around them who didn't know how to play with him,
like Kelly Ubrey, Brad Wannam, make it right, those type
of guy they had to like say all right, let's
cater this thing around Steph. But they got these young
(32:23):
guys who they aren't playing like that. They're not like, hey,
let's let's get Steff open, let's make quick decisions, let's
move the ball, let's let's flare screened and right read
react like you gotta be smart. It was just a
bad mix, right, And it's hard to say Steve is wrong.
If you watch these guys play, there's a school of thought.
(32:43):
It's like, hey, give them time, right, put them out there,
they figure it out. This is what young players get.
They're normally on a bad team. You get to just
roll out there and look terrible for a while and
eventually you get it. But like if you're watching them,
you can see as not working. Right, if you're Steve
Kerr and you got a responsibility to Steph Curry, to
Clay Thompson, Draymond Green, you can't be putting guys out
(33:05):
there who don't know where to go. So they it
was just a It was a bad setup. They were
ready to pivot. It was gonna be old school Colin.
It was gonna be the big man who could run
the floor and catch the ball in the paint. Right,
you got cominga finishing at the rim, a traditional like
they were gonna pivot. They weren't a big man. They
never had that. It was Jaza Petulia, David West and
(33:27):
Andrew Boga centers who didn't score. They were like, wise, man,
all right, this the new era, this Chase center, right,
we're gonna have a big man. And Steph came back
and blew that all up, and they weren't prepared to
switch back. So that's been the big riff. But Steve's
clearly like, listen, man, we won championships with the way
we play, so we're running this. It's like novacaine. You
(33:49):
just keep gi give it time. It always work. Let's
pump it back to um Andrew Wiggins and you know again,
I put it out there. I had a couple of
people tell me they doubted strongly he would return. And
my takeaway, as I believe people, has it been an
uncomfortable story for you because you are a journalist, You're
(34:10):
a guy that that is constantly looking to uncover things.
When you wrote your KD book, Steff book, you gave
me nuggets that I never knew that's what you do.
Has it been hard to cover it? Knowing it's intensely private,
the organization's not going to let it out. But your
job is to cover stuff and uncover stuff. It hasn't
(34:32):
been hard because this team just has fifty eight storylines
all the time, right, So we could always fall back
on you know, right about Steath, right about play, right
about Draymond. But the difficulty is this is one of
the rare situations where nobody's telling you anything. That's the difficulty, Right.
(34:52):
It's like, you know, they they they've they've really kind
of closed ranks. And this is the same team where
they had a videotape leak, right, like an unprecedented leak
of a practice punch. So I think they just got
so fed up that they were like, this is one
we're going to stop, right, And that to me is
(35:14):
the most difficult part. Where it's like you talk to
people and the people who normally be like, hey man,
I'm gonna tell you what's going on, don't write it
even they're like, yeah, we can't. We're not telling you
anything because just know it's bad and just trust us. Right.
So in that sense, it's been. It's not difficult because
like I mean, these are pros, man, they won championships.
(35:35):
You know, if there was a player who they thought
to be on the court and wasn't on the court,
they wouldn't know how to bite their tongue. Like Draymond
pop off on the volume right on volume sports someone,
why is this gout not playing? So when these dudes
who are professionals at the highest level, right, who are winners,
they're like, nah, man, this is bad. Like we we
(35:57):
support them, we rock with them. We're not We're not
gonna throw like, you know, throw them under the bus
or anything like that. It's easy to trust them because
you kind of know who they are and you know
what they are. But I haven't been it's been a
long time college since I couldn't find out like the
inner details, you know what I'm saying, Like, it's been
a while, and that's a testamental Wiggins. Like Wiggins, he
(36:21):
doesn't put himself out there like that, and that's just
kind of been his his deal. And some guys like
for most people, as you know, it's hard to shut
people up. This whole industry runs on the fact that
people don't know how to shut up. Right. So for
Wiggins though, like he doesn't put himself out there like that.
He's very private and they are respecting it, and I
kind of I respect them for that, right, Like I
(36:43):
respect them for saying not a not in this situation
because you know, they've literally had fights in practice that
we found out of that literally. Finally, are you shocked
at how good Clay has played this year? Because I
didn't think he could get there? So it's like, hey,
(37:07):
these dudes are her young college. They're not twenty seven,
not twenty eight, like they're thirty something. The shocking part
is just how petty and determined they are, how stubborn, right,
It's like that that's a stubborn dude. Clay. He's like,
I don't care what y'all say, I'm going to be
Clay again. And at times it just did not look
(37:28):
like it. It did not look like even Steve Kerry
was talking about, Hey man, you're about the age where
it's time to change the game a little bit. You know,
post ups, fade aways like chill on the chill on
the old play, and then he go out and give
Booker thirty three in the first half, right, like he's
that stubborn like I don't care, I don't care, Like
it's it's actually kind of amazing when you think about it,
(37:51):
Like these dudes are older, and a little bit has
to do with the modern times. Players are playing longer,
the loads management, this is where it pays off, and
like this right, this is the this is what their
trainers and the scientists are saying, this is why you
do it, because look, a guy could come back from
two injuries and regain his career. So we just never
(38:13):
seen this before. We haven't seen Brian Steph dropped fifty
at thirty five. He just turned thirty five and he
dropped fifty like it was nothing. Right. These dudes are
kind of modern marvels in that sense. But there was
some There was the times where Clay did it looked
like he would get back and it was hurting the team, right,
It was hurting Tea because he's trying to show you
I still got it right. It was like you you know,
(38:35):
how you get out there, you try to do them
old mooses. He used to do back when you was dancing.
You know, you went to last three, you break dance.
You're like, no, I still got it. I still got it.
Then you throw out your back like Clay used to
have those type of moments. Now I still got it.
And he's missing right. Oh, no, game six Clay, and
it's like, hey, dude, just four for twenty so you
didn't know he would get back here. And then he's
(38:56):
like has a stretch where he goes nuts, absolutely nuts,
and he looks like the old Clay again, Like I
respect the stubbornness that dude. He told us he was
gonna be back, and we believe him. But he's back.
Marcus Thompson as always enjoyed the Roadie. Great scene again, buddy,
you don't break Dansty You're done right. No, although although
(39:17):
you get a cocktail in me, shit gets wild. He
man's two step in the name of love. That's it.
Just one two. We had an age college is one two?
That's this way with the beat? Are we doing too much?
You can see any man all right, he's out the volume.
(39:49):
Make sure to check out the dram On Green Show.
I brought Draymond Green into the volume because one of
the more entertaining voices in sports. Unique perspective understands behind
the Rope also chops up with guests like Gary Peyton,
Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download The Draymond Green
Show wherever you get your podcasts, only on the Volume
(40:12):
podcast Network
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(01:51):
welcome in Friday Morning Podcast. One of my favorite guys
in all the media, Marcus Thompson, works for the Athletic
Marcus is really good. He's written several books, one on KD,
one on Steph. Curry does a great job, has really
close relationships with guys on that team. We're gonna ask
him about the Andrew Wiggins situation. Draymond Green's not going
to play against Atlanta, So no Wiggins, no Draymond Green.
(02:14):
This team is abysmal on the road. We'll talk about that.
A lot of issues, So give me six or seven
minutes on this. I've spent this week overwhelmingly on one topic,
Aaron Rodgers to the Jets, And I know at times
it feels tedious, but you know, I've something I've said
probably twenty five times in my thirty year career about
(02:35):
my shows radio or TV, is that you the consumer,
You the listener. You drive the bus. So I'm able
to because I'm on cable television, to see every minute
of my ratings every day. You can't do that on
broadcast TV, but you can do it on cable and
I monitor it, and I monitor it for one reason.
You tell me what you're bored with. You tell me
(02:56):
what you're interested with. I think the height of arrogance
as a broadcast is pretending I know every day what's
most interesting, so I follow you and I I And
this has happened to me multiple times over my career
that I've loved a topic, just thought it was absolutely
wonderful and fascinating, and the next day I see my
(03:16):
numbers and you didn't give a shit, and so I
move off the topic. There are things that interest me
far more that interest you. And conversely, there are times
I've touched on topics and I'm really shocked by how
much you care. So that it's my job to make calls,
take better notes, figure out why you like it, and
talk about it. So in the Aaron Rodgers situation of
(03:38):
the Jets, it's the combination of multiple things. The most
popular sport in the country the NFL, the most crucial
position quarterback, one gigantic iconic brand, the Green Bay Packers,
and the most polarizing quarterback in the most popular sport,
Aaron Rodgers. So this week I can watch my downloads,
i can watch my cable ratings. They've all been really,
really good. So I'm going to spend a couple of
(04:00):
minutes on this. I listened to most of the comments
the clips from Aaron Rodgers on the YouTube Pat McAfee deal,
and you know, that's a friendly place for him to
go every week, and I have no problem with that.
I used to defend our Cineo Hall all the time
when people would bang on our city of the Hall
and they said, well, you know, people go on there.
(04:21):
He asked puff fluffy questions and my takeaways. It's called
the Arsenio Hall show. He can do whatever he wants.
It's his show. You know, some people have said, well,
McAfee's just it's a comfortable place for Aaron to go,
and my takeaways, it's pat show. He's a punter, you're
not a journalist. He can do anything he wants with it.
I can do anything I want with my show. But
I'm not a former professional athlete. I don't have a
(04:42):
relationship with Aaron, so I'll defend any broadcaster. This is
not the New York Times. I'm in the opinion space.
I've said before, I liked Aaron Rodgers more than Brett Farve.
I think he's smarter, I think he's more thoughtful. He's
a unique guy. Why wouldn't be my kind of guy
to hang out with? But that's okay. You know, there's
(05:04):
a lot of great athletes. You know, Tom Brady doesn't
have a beer during the season. I probably wouldn't hang
out with him either. I'm drinking one right now. Her
draft picks, by the way, Pilsner. But I do think
the most shocking revelation to me is that Aaron Rodgers
after the retreat said ninety percent going in he was
going to retire, and then he came out and was
surprised the packers moved off him. It's just remarkable to
(05:27):
me that a guy that's that smart would lack any
self awareness. And I'll double down on this, when you're
the center of your universe and you ghost people, Aaron
has a history of ghosting people who say anything critical
of him. You surround yourself with yes men, and nobody
called him out on his ship. You know, my wife
calls me out on mine. My kids do. I got
(05:48):
friends that do. I have bosses that would. And so
the packers have never had an owner, right, they don't
have an owner who calls him out in his stuff.
If Green Bay had an owner, Aaron Rodgers would not
take eight to nine weeks to make up his mind.
If Jerry Jones or Stan Cronky would call him up
and say, pal make a decision or we're moving on.
So it looks like that's an advantage not having an owner,
(06:09):
But I think it's a disadvantage. It's a disadvantage for
Farv who kept threatening retirement. It's a disadvantage for Aaron
who kept threatening retirement. And neither guy had anybody that
would demand they give him an answer. And then Aaron's
not married you know, he didn't have anybody to call
him on his crap like our wives do, right, And
so I really do think I call it the Green
(06:31):
Bay quarterback syndrome. No owner, smallest city, you basically own
the franchise. And I think ownership at its best is
non meddling, is highly supportive. But but will hold coaches,
star players accountable. That's Robert Kraft. He said, no, we're
(06:52):
not going to trade Tom Brady, We're moving off Jimmy Garoppolo.
It was the right move. Brady still had Super bowls
with New England and Tampa left in the tank, and
Garoppolo's a B quarterback. Some would say SC quarterback got
to a Super Bowl, maybe a C plus. So I
think the lack of ownership has really hurt Green Bay.
(07:12):
The other thing is they've been overly frugal. An owner
can sometimes step in and say go get that free agent,
make it work. They don't have that. So in the end,
sometimes in life, things you see as an advantage can
be a real disadvantage. And it may feel like for
far Aaron Rodgers, it's such an advantage not having that hovering, meddling,
(07:34):
powerful billionaire. But I think in both cases Farven Rodgers
kind of took advantage of it, had leverage, manipulated, used it,
and in the end the franchise booted both. I do
think Jordan Love can play. I don't think he's going
to be great. If he was going to be great,
if he was Mahomes or Borrow, they would have already
moved off Aaron, not given him an extension. Didn't take
(07:56):
very long one training camp a month in September to
figure out Mahomes was really good. Let's move off Alex Smith,
who was a pro bowler and making the playoffs when
they moved off him. I also don't think he's Zach
Wilson or EJ. Manuel, where you know instantly it doesn't work.
He's somewhere in between. My takeaway is if you look
at who the Packers play next year and the quarterbacks
(08:18):
they play on average in the NFC, they want eight
games this year with Aaron, I think they're about an
eight to nine win team next year with Jordan Love,
barring some injury. I do think they're gonna get this
deal done. I think they're going to get either a
first round pick or a really good player from the
New York Jets. But I don't see them capsizing at all.
I do, however, find it absolutely remarkable that Aaron Rodgers
(08:42):
was surprised when he came out of the darkness retreat
his words, not mine, and the Green Bay Packers had
decided to move on. Wow, you could be pissed. That's different.
You could be upset. Okay, you can't be surprised for
the second third year in a row talking retirement. You
(09:06):
can't be surprised. You're not allowed to be surprised. As
an adult with a functioning brain, you're not allowed to
be surprised. So Michael Jordan is reportedly selling his shares
in the Charlotte Hornets. You know, it's really interesting about
Michael Jordan. So he tried baseball, he failed. He tried ownership,
(09:27):
he was awful. He tried the Wizards, it bombed. Everybody
understand that. Take out Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson. This
whole Michael Jordan mythology is sort of just that he's
arguably the greatest basketball player of all time, but he's
(09:50):
done a lot of stuff. Never the golfer he claimed
failed at baseball. Bad NBA personnel guy, not a very
strong owner Hornets have been mediocre and uninteresting forever. He
was a great, great basketball player, and I always thought
(10:12):
where Lebron is clearly superior to Michael Jordan is Lebron.
His game is his personality. He's a giver. He's a
very giving guy. He likes on the floor to elevate players.
I never thought Michael necessarily elevated all his teammates. He
took shots away from Quentin Daily, Orlando Woolridge, Scottie Pippen,
(10:32):
Tony Coo, coach. Michael took shots away from others Lebron.
Think about Lebron's career. Who hasn't played their best basketball
with Lebron James. He elevated everybody. I mean j R.
Smith worked late in his career with Lebron James. It
was Kyrie's best basketball, Shane Battier his most important shots.
(10:55):
Everybody works with Lebron, from his schools to his style,
who his game, do his businesses. He got multiple partners.
Michael was always a bit of a selfish player. He's
a bit of a selfish guy, and he's not great
at building community. He's great at building wealth. For Michael Jordan,
that's fine. It's not a criticism, it's a reality of
(11:17):
who Michael is. I don't think he made everybody else better.
He failed with multiple coaches, he failed without Pippin, He
failed in baseball, he failed in Washington, He failed as
a GM and an owner in Charlotte. What he was
was a great basketball player, very self centric. He was remarkable.
He deserves to be the first or second best basketball
player of all time. The three best I've ever seen
(11:39):
that weren't centers, MJ. Lebron and Magic Johnson, and they're
a notch above even the Tim Duncans and Larry Birds
not counting centers. But it's not a surprise. Michael's always
had a small group of friends, very loyal to that
small group of friends. But he doesn't have the ability
(12:02):
or the interest to be more of a Lebron to
help others beyond his circle. That's not really what Michael is.
That he only recently started some very noteworthy giving, some
public giving to either a political process or a charity.
I'm not saying he hadn't done it for years privately.
(12:24):
And that's not a criticism of Michael. Again, it's just
his reality. But you know, if you look at Magic
Johnson and Lebron James. Their games are very similar because
their personalities are very similar. They have a large community
of friends and allies and their givers at their core,
(12:44):
and it's made Magic one of the richest athletes of
all time and Lebron one of the richest athletes of
all time. But it's also enriched others where Michael's often
just been about Michael. Get off the bench at the NBA.
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(14:38):
All right, let's bring on Marcus Thompson. I've said this
before in my career. My job is to tell you
what I know, but I don't always need to know
the why. Sometimes it's none of my business. Uh. The
Andrew Wiggins situation is really none of my business. I
know it's very serious. It's a family matter. What I
was told, and now I have two people that have
(15:01):
said it's really really serious. The Warriors totally support him,
but there is some doubt if he'll be available going forward.
There's no certainty. There's real doubt. So let's bring in Marcus.
You know a lot more than I do. I have
been told it's extremely serious, and the Warriors completely respect
(15:23):
his privacy. And so again, that's none of my business.
I'm not talking anybody's fam that's none of my business.
Let's talk about availability. You're reporting, you're sourcing, you're guessing.
Is it a reasonable assumption that he would miss the
regular season but perhaps be a postseason participant? You know,
(15:44):
it's possible, depending on who you talk to. There's some
people who expect him to be back. There's some people
who don't want to put that on him, right, Like, hey, dude,
what you gotta do? We don't really want to pressure you, right,
you know, you got to handle this. The difficulty about
that proposition of missing the regular season to come back
from the playoffs is who you're getting. I mean, that's
(16:08):
two months, two months of no basketball. I doubt he's
picked up the ball a ball, right, I have to
guess his condition. It wouldn't be great, so it would
be a tall order to ask him. And then we
don't know what his mental condition will be. We know this,
this dude doesn't miss games, like he just doesn't. I
mean his first six years he missed like four total games. Like,
(16:30):
he doesn't miss games. So whatever it is, it's got
to be it's incredibly serious. Whatever it is. There's a
locker room with dudes who want to win a championship
who are like, oh, this is bad, Like you handle that, like,
we're not even mad. So I don't know how. I
don't know how you come back from that in the
middle of a playoff setting and produce. I mean, we've
(16:51):
seen crazy things, but that would be a lot to ask.
So I think they just have to start preparing mentally
for the fact that he won't be there, and if
he comes, like, that's a bonus. Yeah, I mean they
wanted Jonathan Kuminga perhaps to develop. He's very twitchy, very athletic,
can be very forceful around the rim. They wanted him
(17:13):
to develop. He doesn't have the touch. He's not the
defensive player yet of Wiggins, but he's wildly athletic. But
if you could get twelve minutes a night. He didn't
do squat in the playoffs last year because Kurt didn't
trust him yet. Do you think Steve Kerr trusts him
because Iggy now has an injury? How many minutes per
night in the playoff game do you believe Steve Kerr
would be comfortable with Jonathan Kuminga. I don't really think
(17:36):
he has a choice. I mean, the other option is
a two way guy that they're probably going to convert,
Anthony Lamb. So I mean, geez, Comigo is never seven pick.
I do think he does a couple of things that
the words could use, Like he's a ball pressure. He's
good at that, so at some point they'll use him.
I think it's somewhere between twelve forty minutes, depending on
(18:00):
how he plays. Right, he'll probably get twelve baked in
maybe fifteen if they're not good, especially in that second half,
then he just won't go back to him. Like that's
that's kind of how Steve has been. If he's playing
really well, if he's giving somebody problems, now you up
it because they need it. They don't have a lot
(18:20):
of other defensive options, right, Like they don't have a
lot of lockdown guys. I mean, here's the interesting part.
Does Gary Payton's second make it back? And how does
that impact? Because if if you don't get Wiggins and
you don't have a GP two, the only other guy
who can do what they what they do is doctor division,
Zoe and Jonathan and that's it. The rest is like
(18:42):
y'all beat you off the dribble. So it's almost like, yo,
what do you have to lose anyway, just run out there.
If you don't win, you probably are the seventh seed anyways,
So would you expect, Well, Clay Thompson's having his best
year and maybe sex he is absolutely great, Jordan pool
Deep and Genzo Steph Curry had fifty against the Clippers.
(19:03):
So it's a team that's guard heavy and if things
don't work out with the loss, with the movement of
Wiseman and Wiggins, they're a small team, and they're not
going to be as good defensively. So you know I've
said this before, I've thrown this out there, is that
because Steph can still be on any night the best
player in the league on any night against anybody, Clay
(19:25):
has rebounded with an all star level second half in performance.
Draymond is still a catalyst. Wiggins, we presume would come back.
I'll throw it out there. If they got into the
playoffs and got pushed around by a big, forget em
beat or Jannis. I'm talking Yokich. They got pushed around
a little bit by a big. They have the arsenal
(19:47):
of guards now, especially scoring guards. They're not moving Steph,
but Jordan Poole, you know they've got enough guys they
could move this team. I still believe, bullieves we got
a championship left. Could you see them going out and
getting And I'll throw a big at you. You don't
(20:07):
have to. He'll give you twenty two points a night
without designing a single play for him. Anthony Davis and
just say, listen, we know you're not giving us thirty
eight minutes, and we know you're not giving us eighty
two games. We're not asking that and because I look
at the Warriors and I think to myself, right now,
I've lost confidence without Wiggins and Iggy, I don't think.
(20:29):
I don't think they can get to the NBA Finals.
I don't now the break is of course, Marcus k
D's out, and you know that's a big thing. And
I don't trust the Clippers. Have you let's start with this,
Have you lost confidence in this team going forward getting
to the finals? Yeah, no question. They can't win on
(20:51):
the road. They lose the teams they should beat. I
always thought it was gonna be tough anyway, Like repeating
is not easy, Like it's not that's all of teams
to do it. So even if they brought back the
same team, it's not like when they had KD and
it was like, all right, we're we're about to repeat,
Like normally it gets harder in the second year. But
(21:11):
now I think they're they'll upset somebody. Right That third series, though,
would be tough, because whatever they do, it's gonna be
on stuff. It's gonna be on play, right, it's gonna
be on Dremond. And now it's like you you fight
through one series, right, you upset somebody, you get another series.
That's gonna be harder. Now you can start to see
(21:32):
it take toll because keep in mind, they've been playing
hard all year. It's not it's not like twenty eighteen,
twenty nineteen where they were chilling on like all right,
we're here for the finals run like, No, they've been
They've been trying to beat teams. So the difficulty I
see is they've been putting in a lot of work
and on the back end that catch us up. We've
(21:53):
seen this before twenty sixteen. They chase seventy three, you know,
got up three one and the legs are gone right,
and that's obviously a better setting for them, But it's
just tough to envision and winning three series to get
to the finals and then't win in a four for him, like,
that's a lot. I just think they need to have
(22:13):
a good showing and if they knock off YO Kids
or knock off KD, that's something real. Now you're talking
about all right steps still legit? Who were keeping out
of Draymond and in Clay or maybe Draymond's like, yo,
I'm out, I got an opt out. Somebody wants to
pay me a max, I'm out. Those are the decisions.
Here's I don't think the reason. I don't think they'll
(22:34):
go Anthony Davis, the owner, wants to go young. That
was the whole Wiseman thing. I don't want a bunch
of thirty five year olds so when they fall off,
we're like a lottery team. Again. He doesn't want to
do that. He wants somebody young. He wants to swap
out Steph and make it a seamless transition to the
next guy. So I think he'll want a guy who's
young here, ready to play. He wanted Steve Kirks, who
(22:56):
played the young guys this year. So I don't think
he's going on thirty plus. He's going he might go
twenty five. That might be the compromise instead of twenty one.
It'll be twenty five. It's there, but it won't be
It won't be another thirty something unless he just decides,
let's ride the wheels till they fall off with Stephen them.
So most have observed and speculated that the Draymond Pool
(23:21):
punch created a bit of a rift and a chasm
between young and old guys in the locker room. And
they note, and I think with some accuracy, that it's
a bad road team, and on the road is where
unity factors in. There's almost no explanation Marcus for being abysmal. Shit,
They're as bad as the Rockets in the Orlando Magic
(23:42):
and Detroit on the road. Do you believe it? Does?
It does feel like this is maybe a clickier team,
that the gap between young and old is sizable. Oh,
I thought that that was true from the beginning. I
mean it's like literally like a red sea in between them, right, Right,
I got the old hands who wants championships, and then
you have like the homeroom squad. Right, you have the
(24:04):
Hall of Fame, and you got the home room. They
got six guys who like haven't done much before in
the league, and then you have this super high bar
of championship standard. Right. It was already like that, I mean,
just tangibly just thinking about who they are at their ages, right, Like,
I mean, Steps is the nicest guy in the league. Right,
(24:26):
he gets along with everybody, but he's thirty five. He's
got like kids and stuff, like he's got an IRA councilabusites,
like he's got hanging out with twenty one year old
like he'll do you know, he could put his arm
around the guy in the locker room and all that,
but got teenage daughters. They just don't have anything in common.
And you could look in the locker room and you
could say, is this is this team looks like they're
(24:50):
having a bit of fun. There's some like gelling that
you probably didn't think happened after somebody got rocked in
training camp, right, but what's to you can't really there's
this like u intangible part of the punch that you
can't quantify, right, Like what happens if they don't have
that and they get off to a start in the
(25:11):
chemistry is great, and now they don't lose five straight
road games to start the season, Like it's like it's
almost like not saving money. You know what I'm saying.
You don't lose money, but you don't know you don't
know what you would have done if you would have
invested it, right, So we don't know how that impacted
the season. All we know is they got off to
a rough start. It was kind of a mess and
(25:32):
it felt like a set of tone for the season.
So even if they're fine now, right, even if they're
like they've overcome in and gotten through it, there was
a cost that they paid that we can kind of
see now. And I think it again on the road
first out the back five game road trip, they lose
in the Charlotte and Orlando right like, and they're playing
(25:53):
like Stephano It's not like they had a bunch of
young guys. They weren't able to close against bad teams
to start that on five road trips out a tone.
So I think there is an intangible like costs from that,
even if they might have gotten through it. And since
well Steve Kerb played GM broadcasting and coached, he's got
(26:13):
a lot of money, He's got a lot of interests.
It could be surfing, it could be travel, and coaching
in this league is a real grind. As this dynasty,
I don't think it's winding down. I still think it
has legs for the next two to three years because
I think Steph is you know. I think at some
point they could go to Steph and say, listen, we're
(26:33):
gonna have you play sixty games. That's what you're gonna
play in the regular season. You pick your spot. I
think that's the next step, and that may be next
year because shooters can last a lot longer than like
a Westbrook who's a hyper athletic guard, and they lose
the athleticism. Not the same guy. Steph can play for
the next five years and hit jumpers. The key is
twenty six minutes fifty eight games. They're not quite there yet.
(26:56):
But let me ask you about Steve Kerr. He defended
Draymond and has before. In fact, it's very interesting to
me this year particularly, he has been so positive about
Draymond publicly, gone out of his way publicly, so much
so that I notice, where do you think Kerr is
(27:17):
at with the dynasty himself, Draymond, the age bridge. Where
is he at when you cover him nightly? He seems
to be in a place where he like kind of
likes the challenge of coaching, right Like, it seems like
he likes the struggle of training young guys and teaching them,
except he don't really play them like. It's it's kind
(27:39):
of weird. When he talks, it sounds like it sounds
different than it looks right He like he'll say, oh,
this young guys really developed. I love Moses Moody. Moses
Moody great, and Moses Moody doesn't play. I think the
decisions with the roster at the beginning of the year
kind of created a chasm that they're gonna have to
(28:00):
figure out an off season. Like, here's the other thing.
It's Bob Myers coming back. Bob Mars doesn't have a contract.
That's that could be. I mean, we're looking at Draymond
is like, what is Draymond gonna do? Bob Myers might
be the domino that changes things. And then, like you said,
Steve's got so many interests. If it gets too different,
so Steve stick around. Steve could go do whatever he want.
(28:21):
That's one of the things I love about Steve, Like
he's like, yo, I can leave tomorrow. I'll be great. Yeah,
my life is good, right, Like it's fine Steve forever.
Steve's on a short list of the smartest people that
have ever been in this league. He's got a million interests.
It's like he just has that comfort in his felf
where it's like where other people are making decisions to
keep a job, Steve is like, yeah, I'm gonna do
(28:42):
what I think is best. And if you want to
fire me, fire me. But I got eleven thousand rings,
so I'm good. I'm just like there was definitely a
thing between the front office and the coaches staff, like no,
not playing wise, but not playing comedic and not playing moody, right,
playing two way guys over him, Like he seems to
(29:04):
enjoy this position of what we want. We gotta do
what's best for us, and I'm just gonna coach how
I want to coach. It's got to be pretty free.
But you know, the owners like, yo, I'm invested in
all these young players, like we need to prepare four
in five years. So when you talk to him, when
you hear him, he sounds like a coach who's kind
of yeah, this is how you build. We're building something
(29:26):
like we're growing. But then when you see him like coach,
he's like, yo, I'm trying to win, like I run
of guys I think can win. But it's interesting here
he's so like at peace with himself. I think just
about everything he does, there's a sense of comfort to it, right,
Like even even when you if you're critical Steve and
(29:48):
he brings it up to you, it's not how could
you say that? He's like, yeah, let's talk about sure,
Sure there's criticism, right, Like, I'm gonna talk to you
about it, and it's fine. Because I already know who
I am, right, So it's it's a it's a it's
a weird space to be in because the owner is like,
why aren't you playing Wiseman? Why aren't you playing Cominga
(30:08):
And he's like, yeah, I'm trying to win, and I
do what I want because I'm Steve Kerr. Right. Well,
I also think, um, if you look at the player.
I've been saying this on the the air recently when
they bring players in, there's a common thread why they work,
and it's not offen ig Iggy works, he's a willing defender.
Katie worked a willing defender. Wiggins worked a willing defender.
(30:31):
DeAngelo Russell didn't like, you gotta play defense. Steve Kerr
may have been a three point shooter. We may view
this as an offensive dynasty, but if you're not willing
to put your body out there, this shit ain't gonna work.
When I watched Wiseman, I never thought he was a fit.
I also think this is a very heavy offense. It's
a catch and react offense. I think it's really hard
(30:54):
for young players. And so I watch almost every Warrior
game to some degree or I'm all over the box
scoring the highlights. Shit, man, this is not this is
not remedial stuff. To some degree, could I not defend
Steve Curran say it's probably the most complicated offense in
the league. It's it's definitely advanced out of patrigue, right,
(31:18):
maybe maybe calculus in some sense. You have to have
played basketball to understand, like it's a lot of little stuff.
He's always talking about quick decisions. Right point, you got
point five seconds to make a decision, decide what you're
gonna do. That's just not how young players roll, man,
that's not And the unique part about all this it
(31:41):
is the players day selected was basically a pitot. It
was like, all right, Steph is hurt, plays out. We
have no idea what the dynasty is going to be,
or if it's what we're going to be in the future.
They went fifteen and fifty. Remember they didn't even make
the bubble a draft wise man, because that's like, all right,
we have to figure out how we're gonna play now
(32:02):
without these generational talents. Steph comes back and he's like,
oh yeah, yeah, I'm still a superman. And now it's like,
wait a second, let's let's continue playing how we play
and his first year back was a bunch of dudes
around them who didn't know how to play with him,
like Kelly Ubrey, Brad Wannam, make it right, those type
of guy they had to like say all right, let's
cater this thing around Steph. But they got these young
(32:23):
guys who they aren't playing like that. They're not like, hey,
let's let's get Steff open, let's make quick decisions, let's
move the ball, let's let's flare screened and right read
react like you gotta be smart. It was just a
bad mix, right, And it's hard to say Steve is wrong.
If you watch these guys play, there's a school of thought.
(32:43):
It's like, hey, give them time, right, put them out there,
they figure it out. This is what young players get.
They're normally on a bad team. You get to just
roll out there and look terrible for a while and
eventually you get it. But like if you're watching them,
you can see as not working. Right, if you're Steve
Kerr and you got a responsibility to Steph Curry, to
Clay Thompson, Draymond Green, you can't be putting guys out
(33:05):
there who don't know where to go. So they it
was just a It was a bad setup. They were
ready to pivot. It was gonna be old school Colin.
It was gonna be the big man who could run
the floor and catch the ball in the paint. Right,
you got cominga finishing at the rim, a traditional like
they were gonna pivot. They weren't a big man. They
never had that. It was Jaza Petulia, David West and
(33:27):
Andrew Boga centers who didn't score. They were like, wise, man,
all right, this the new era, this Chase center, right,
we're gonna have a big man. And Steph came back
and blew that all up, and they weren't prepared to
switch back. So that's been the big riff. But Steve's
clearly like, listen, man, we won championships with the way
we play, so we're running this. It's like novacaine. You
(33:49):
just keep gi give it time. It always work. Let's
pump it back to um Andrew Wiggins and you know again,
I put it out there. I had a couple of
people tell me they doubted strongly he would return. And
my takeaway, as I believe people, has it been an
uncomfortable story for you because you are a journalist, You're
(34:10):
a guy that that is constantly looking to uncover things.
When you wrote your KD book, Steff book, you gave
me nuggets that I never knew that's what you do.
Has it been hard to cover it? Knowing it's intensely private,
the organization's not going to let it out. But your
job is to cover stuff and uncover stuff. It hasn't
(34:32):
been hard because this team just has fifty eight storylines
all the time, right, So we could always fall back
on you know, right about Steath, right about play, right
about Draymond. But the difficulty is this is one of
the rare situations where nobody's telling you anything. That's the difficulty, Right.
(34:52):
It's like, you know, they they they've they've really kind
of closed ranks. And this is the same team where
they had a videotape leak, right, like an unprecedented leak
of a practice punch. So I think they just got
so fed up that they were like, this is one
we're going to stop, right, And that to me is
(35:14):
the most difficult part. Where it's like you talk to
people and the people who normally be like, hey man,
I'm gonna tell you what's going on, don't write it
even they're like, yeah, we can't. We're not telling you
anything because just know it's bad and just trust us. Right.
So in that sense, it's been. It's not difficult because
like I mean, these are pros, man, they won championships.
(35:35):
You know, if there was a player who they thought
to be on the court and wasn't on the court,
they wouldn't know how to bite their tongue. Like Draymond
pop off on the volume right on volume sports someone,
why is this gout not playing? So when these dudes
who are professionals at the highest level, right, who are winners,
they're like, nah, man, this is bad. Like we we
(35:57):
support them, we rock with them. We're not We're not
gonna throw like, you know, throw them under the bus
or anything like that. It's easy to trust them because
you kind of know who they are and you know
what they are. But I haven't been it's been a
long time college since I couldn't find out like the
inner details, you know what I'm saying, Like, it's been
a while, and that's a testamental Wiggins. Like Wiggins, he
(36:21):
doesn't put himself out there like that, and that's just
kind of been his his deal. And some guys like
for most people, as you know, it's hard to shut
people up. This whole industry runs on the fact that
people don't know how to shut up. Right. So for
Wiggins though, like he doesn't put himself out there like that.
He's very private and they are respecting it, and I
kind of I respect them for that, right, Like I
(36:43):
respect them for saying not a not in this situation
because you know, they've literally had fights in practice that
we found out of that literally. Finally, are you shocked
at how good Clay has played this year? Because I
didn't think he could get there? So it's like, hey,
(37:07):
these dudes are her young college. They're not twenty seven,
not twenty eight, like they're thirty something. The shocking part
is just how petty and determined they are, how stubborn, right,
It's like that that's a stubborn dude. Clay. He's like,
I don't care what y'all say, I'm going to be
Clay again. And at times it just did not look
(37:28):
like it. It did not look like even Steve Kerry
was talking about, Hey man, you're about the age where
it's time to change the game a little bit. You know,
post ups, fade aways like chill on the chill on
the old play, and then he go out and give
Booker thirty three in the first half, right, like he's
that stubborn like I don't care, I don't care, Like
it's it's actually kind of amazing when you think about it,
(37:51):
Like these dudes are older, and a little bit has
to do with the modern times. Players are playing longer,
the loads management, this is where it pays off, and
like this right, this is the this is what their
trainers and the scientists are saying, this is why you
do it, because look, a guy could come back from
two injuries and regain his career. So we just never
(38:13):
seen this before. We haven't seen Brian Steph dropped fifty
at thirty five. He just turned thirty five and he
dropped fifty like it was nothing. Right. These dudes are
kind of modern marvels in that sense. But there was
some There was the times where Clay did it looked
like he would get back and it was hurting the team, right,
It was hurting Tea because he's trying to show you
I still got it right. It was like you you know,
(38:35):
how you get out there, you try to do them
old mooses. He used to do back when you was dancing.
You know, you went to last three, you break dance.
You're like, no, I still got it. I still got it.
Then you throw out your back like Clay used to
have those type of moments. Now I still got it.
And he's missing right. Oh, no, game six Clay, and
it's like, hey, dude, just four for twenty so you
didn't know he would get back here. And then he's
(38:56):
like has a stretch where he goes nuts, absolutely nuts,
and he looks like the old Clay again, Like I
respect the stubbornness that dude. He told us he was
gonna be back, and we believe him. But he's back.
Marcus Thompson as always enjoyed the Roadie. Great scene again, buddy,
you don't break Dansty You're done right. No, although although
(39:17):
you get a cocktail in me, shit gets wild. He
man's two step in the name of love. That's it.
Just one two. We had an age college is one two?
That's this way with the beat? Are we doing too much?
You can see any man all right, he's out the volume.
(39:49):
Make sure to check out the dram On Green Show.
I brought Draymond Green into the volume because one of
the more entertaining voices in sports. Unique perspective understands behind
the Rope also chops up with guests like Gary Peyton,
Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download The Draymond Green
Show wherever you get your podcasts, only on the Volume
(40:12):
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