Colin Cowherd Podcast - The NBA’s “Pete Rose” Gambling Scandal, Eliminate Two-Way Player Props? Wemby Is UNGUARDABLE

Colin is joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1.

They dive straight into the MASSIVE gambling & match fixing scheme that ended in the arrest of  Chauncey Billups, Terry Rozier and Damon Jones. They call it the “NBA’s Pete Rose” moment, and Danny argues Chauncey should be thrown out of the Hall of Fame if the allegations prove to be true (3:00).

They discuss the world of underground gambling & the history of the intersection of the mafia, gambling and sports and Danny explains why the level of regulation in legal betting is what caused the players to be caught tanking their player props (11:00).

They argue that these types of scandals will happen as long as the leagues are in bed with the sportsbook, but there’s no going back with the huge money involved, and it’s better to have props monitored and regulated rather than move underground. Danny argues that there’s a solid case to outlaw “under” player props (19:00). 

Colin argues basketball is uniquely susceptible to corruption and match fixing due to its more individualistic nature, and why the team-centric, militaristic culture of the NFL would make it hard to pull off in football (28:00) . Danny argues that America is so addicted to sports that even if the Super Bowl was found to be rigged… people wouldn’t tune out. 

They discuss why the leagues have too much money on the line to allow everything to be “rigged” like many fans believe, and Colin explains why conspiracies about refs being in on it are overblown (39:00).

Colin revisits the lead story he had for The Herd that had to be shelved due to the gambling story breaking… Victor Wembanyama’s absolutely insane 40 point performance against the best frontline in the league and debate whether he’s already the best player in the league at 21 years old (59:00).

Finally, Danny brings up the story of a G-league player moving over to college basketball and they both agree… that doesn’t feel right (1:10:00).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Now it's time for this week's Redeemed team member, brought
to you by Hulu's Chad Powers. This week it's DeVante
Adams three touchdowns in London Rams crush the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Adams became the second player to have three touchdowns in
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Powers is now streaming new episodes Tuesday on Hulu and

(00:24):
Hulu on Disney Plus for Bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Danny
Parkins is the perfect guest today for the show, not

(00:47):
just because he enjoys a little parlay from time to time,
but his Yeah, like tonight, But but it is it
is something I think both of us feel strongly about.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Is I.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Always push back. I think the media, the mainstream media
sometimes can be really outdated and precious when it comes
to gambling. Europe's far ahead of us, has been for years.
And the truth is, and this is another criticism I
have of the media. They tend to pander and so
I don't think because there's more gambling opportunities, it's an

(01:30):
invitation to be an addict. I don't think more bars
are going to induce you into being alcoholic. I think
there are rules, there's laws. These are personal choices people make.
But I do think addiction is a sad tale because
many addicts are poor with no way out where Chauncey

(01:50):
Billups to me, Danny, the part of this that's just
mind boggling. Forget the fact that Chauncey Billups made over
one hundred million. He was always thought as a very
kind of smart, I would say, almost a coach while
he was playing. He was an adult in the room
that he played rigged poker games knowing they were rigged.

(02:15):
I'm I don't even I mean, if you'd have told me,
if you had to give me twenty names of people
and he was on it, I'd say, well, it's not
Chauncy that I know for sure. Is of all the
stuff on Rosier and Chauncey Billups and Damon Jones and
the Lakosa Nostra and the poker Chauncey played rigged poker

(02:36):
games and knew it?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
To me?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Is the wh what does that land similarly to you? Yeah,
of course.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
And I mean obviously we have to say all of
these things are like alleged at this point that they've
got some pretty damning specifics here, right, so you know,
let's just have the blanket their allegations.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Thing out of the way.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
And yes, Chauncey Billups's reputation was is sparkling. And you know,
it appears that he also is involved in the sports
gambling one as that unidentified person who played from this
time to this time and then was a coach from
this time to this time, and it was an Oregon
resident like that.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
We're going to talk about a lot of.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
This, but like, if that is true, Like, let's just
assume that the unnamed person in the sports gambling one
who fits the exact description of Chauncey Billups is Chauncey Billups.
I mean, that is the NBA's version of Pete Rose.
You have an NBA head coach tipping off a gambler

(03:39):
that they're gonna that he's gonna sit players so that
they should be that they should bet the under like that.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I mean, he's in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Colin Like, can he get thrown out of the Hall
of Fame?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Right, but I like that is on the table for
his basketball reputation, And if that is true, because I
would imagine he would not get thrown out of the
Hall of Fame for just the poker side of it.
But if he was, if it's proven that Chauncey Billups
as an NBA head coach, it was proven to letting
gamblers know what he was going to do with his

(04:16):
players for the purposes of betting unders on props, He'll
never be allowed around basketball ever again. And it's it
would be a startling fall from grace for one of
the guys with like a truly immaculate reputation within the game.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, like there are you know, I can think multiple
things at the same time. If he was a you know,
like when people have problems with addiction, and I don't
know if this is addiction, but when people have problems
with addiction, there's varying levels of it. I mean, I
had somebody close to me that drank for fifty years

(04:53):
and stone cold stop at sixty four and has never
touched it. And it's like, and I've heard multiple story
ories of that. My dad didn't have that ability. So
some of it's genetic. Some people are wired to be
able to stop stuff. I don't have an obsessive compulsive personality,
so I don't I don't have that I have. I
worked once in the Pacific Northwest with somebody who had

(05:17):
moderation issues with food and gambling and behavior, and it
was it was scary a person could not control everything
from food intake to temper to gambling. So I don't
know if that's the issue, but Chauncey certainly could seek
help and could afford help. What really bothers me with Chauncey, though,

(05:38):
is the rigged poker games, because that's more sinister to me.
It's it's one thing, well, it's it's stealing.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
It's just it's it's it's just it's it's it is
it is stealing.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I mean, listen.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
So I've played in like I played cards, Nick and
I have played cards together forever. Nick at this point
is a much more accomplished poker player.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Than I ever was.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
But I have so I've lived in Chicago, Syracuse, Kansas City,
and now New York. I have played in what are
technically illegal poker games every place I've ever lived. Because
what makes a poker game illegal is if a place

(06:22):
takes a rake, if they take if they take a
vig right, like like you go to a casino and
you play poker, maybe they'll cap it at twenty bucks
a hand. It's a percentage of the pot up to
a certain amount and then it's capped. And that's how
like the house makes their money. And so like if
you go to a guy's house and he's got a
table running and he's got a dealer, and you know,

(06:43):
you drink for free and maybe maybe order pizzas for
the room or whatever the case may be, Like, how
do they pay for that? How does the guy make
his money? They take a rig, They take a vig
out of the game, right, A rake is what it's
called in poker, And that's like technically illegal, but it's
not a big deal, Like it's not, it's just everybody
does it for forever. But if and when you go

(07:05):
to any game that isn't in a casino, you of
course have like a you are some fear of like
is the game on the up and up? Do the
players know each other? Is the dealer in on it?
Like that is like a thing that you take on
some level of risk, which is why it's like quote
unquote safer to go play in Vegas, to go play
in Atlantic City, to go play in you know, the

(07:25):
casinos in Chicago, or wherever. So that's where I would
normally play. But I've found myself in these games before,
and you it's in the back of your mind, but
it is what it is. But if the allegations about
Chauncey Billups that the dealer was in on it, the
other players were in on it, and he was as
the the letter of the law with their what the

(07:49):
FBI guy was alleging is that he was what they
called the face card. Play in a game with Chauncey Billups,
which is what would get big fish with money. Oh
my god, I've got money. I can play ten thousand
dollars buy in poker games with an NBA with a
Hall of Famer and I get to meet him and
take pictures or whatever. And then if Chauncey Billups also knew,

(08:09):
which is what they're alleging, Yeah, I mean he's he's
a common criminal.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Like it's it's it's just it is. It is.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
It is the It is the same thing of going
into someone's house and robbing them of their jewelry.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know what I mean. It is It is theft.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
There's nothing, no other way to describe it.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, it was, you know, I I'm much older than you.
And my first job was in Las Vegas, and I
came in there pretty naively to Las Vegas, and I
covered Jerry Tarkanian, and Tark was always fully aware of
the casinos. There were some I could name a couple
of guys that were around the program. One of the

(08:47):
things Tark had, like I remember this, like forty free tickets.
That's unbelievable, Like Jim Herrick at UCLA had like four.
You know, Tark had like forty. And by the way,
he would give him to a guy I know, we
used to call him track Suit Tony. He would give
him thirty five of the tickets, thirty six of the tickets,

(09:11):
and Mike would sell those tickets and bring back you know, yeah,
you know. And then there was another guy named Larry.
I'm not going to say his last name. He had
a big business on the side. And you know, there
was always these feelings of these guys, aren't you know.
I don't know about these guys, but I knew the guys.
They were fine, they were just like guys around Tark.

(09:32):
But there was always reputations Tark hangs around. In my
take was guys, they're not mafia members. Like they owned businesses.
They're just kind of they want to be. You know,
tark was the biggest celebrity not named Steve Wynn or
Mike Tyson in town. But and I there was a
lot of talk through the years, and I just didn't
buy into it because I the only time I've seen

(09:53):
Tark turned gray is when I brought up gambling and
he's like, it terrifies me. He just like changed personality
goes it terrifies me. And it was Tim Gergerich and
those guys, they and Lois Tarkanian, and they really educated
the players. And then one day the administration was trying
to get tark out, including the athletic director at the time,

(10:13):
and a picture a Sunday morning Las Vegas Review Journal
of Moses Scurry, Anderson Hunt and David Butler in a
hot tub with Richie the fixer Perry, and so I
was like, oh, program over. So that obviously the ad
found the picture, they got it to the you know, newspaper.
So I was right. Suddenly I was a crime reporter

(10:37):
and it just it's just no fun. You know, I'm
like twenty nine years old. I want to talk Mike Tyson.
I'm talking about Richie the fixer Perry, and nothing was
ever really proven. And I still to this day would
defend that program to the ends of the earth. On
any of the gambling stuff. Tark constantly pled with his
players to stay out of these casinos. But I think

(10:59):
one of the things, as I said today, is since
the chariots in Rome mafia gambling sports, you just have
to understand it's not because it's now legalized. It happened
to Henry Hill in the seventies at Boston College. Too
many people are jumping to see this is the problem
with you know, Fan Duel. My take is, guys, my

(11:24):
take is you're really naive. In fact, i'd say it's
more regulated now, and it's arguable it's more monitored now.
My take is these stories are good actually because it
fishes out the bad actors.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Okay, there's a level of nuance to this. As I
see it, it is objectively true that the way that
these players got caught Jonte Porter Rogier like for tanking
their unders is because it was legal. It's the regulation

(12:01):
is what allowed it to be caught. On day one,
If if Terry Rosier's a player prop of nine and
a half points is posted and normally that gets two
thousand dollars worth of action across a bunch of ten
fifty one hundred dollars bets, and then one day there's

(12:23):
mid five figures of action that gets flagged. Yeah, and
it gets notified and the site Fan Duel, DraftKings, hard Rock, whomever,
and the league their interests on that are aligned. Yes,
because if the NBA wants the integrity of the game

(12:43):
and the gambling company doesn't want to lose money.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Well, in Vegas, the margins for sports betting in Vegas
in twenty twenty five or thin.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Right exactly, So like they're they are catching that quicker
and more accurately, literally the day it happens in all
of these cases that have come up because of the regulation.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
So like the idea that.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
It is like happening more because of it, they're going
to also catch it. I will say though that like
it is easier to gamble, yes, because it is legal.
It is easier to have a phone, have access to
a debit card. Like when I started online gambling when

(13:32):
I was fifteen sixteen years old, it was like it
was like offshore and you had to it wasn't that
high of a barrier of entry.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
But it was like, are you going to get paid?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Do you have to buy a phone like an international
calling card to deposit? Did you have to wire money?
Would your bank accept the check? It was a whole
big run around. Now it is just like much easier.
And there have been studies done on Twitter, Instagram, all
these apps on our phone that they are they're programs

(14:05):
like slot machines to get you to keep checking the
pings and the notifications and the lights to get you
to keep walking past.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's just like Silicon Valley's algorithms. They want you on
the phone. Well, so that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
So I do think that it would also equally be
naive to dismiss the barrier of entry to gambling being
easier than ever before, pretending like that does not have
a causal link to an increased amount of problematic gambling behavior,

(14:39):
primarily in young men. Right, Like, I do think that
those numbers are going up and will stay up, but
it ain't going away, yeah, right, Like prohibition doesn't work
to your point, It doesn't work with alcohol, it doesn't
work with weed, It doesn't work with gambling. It doesn't

(14:59):
It doesn't work. It doesn't work with sex. It doesn't,
it doesn't work with anything. Never has so it never has.
So you know, I've I've read really smart columnists on
this story, and you know, a lot of the conclusions
are similar. And it is, you know, like the leagues
got embedded the gambling companies. That comes with a cost.

(15:21):
Was it worth it? And those the leagues are all
universally going to say yes, yes, you know, and like
they're there are so these stories are going to happen
and it's it sucks Danny, but I do I do
think it is an unavoidable cost of the legalization of
sports gambling. But there's no putting the genie back in

(15:43):
the bottle.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Listen, Hollywood called Saudi Arabia money, blood money. It's a
complicated world. Now Hollywood's taking Saudi money, right, So when
when I hear people say, well live, oh, stop, there's
a real truth out here. The Puritans are always people

(16:06):
that don't get offered things. Chris Rock, you're as you know,
you're as loyal as your options. The internet trolls, the
anonymous people, they're always the most unified in their pristine
views of the world. And the truth is if you're
offered stuff, people eventually take it. They justify it. Saudi

(16:26):
money was viewed one way and then now it's not.
And the reality is everybody networks, Hollywood leagues, everybody accepts it.
And I look at sports gambling again, there's a little
bit of a link with alcohol where I think, listen,

(16:47):
I leagues, for instance, stadiums cut off alcohol sales and
like the seventh inning, like we're serving it, but we're
stopping at the seventh you know, bars, you know, tell
people enough. My concern is I think the prop bets
on prop bets on your phone are dangerous. But if
you ban that, well then it goes to the unregulated market,

(17:10):
and that's worth so to me correct. I would just
rather have all this crap monitor I want all gambling
monitored closely. And then I mean, like one of the
problems I think, yeah, yeah, sorry, so sorry.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
I I think I think the prop bet thing is
an interesting like I do think I I wonder if
it is.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
If there's an interesting thought though to like if you're
if it's a like.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
What the level of player is that should have a
two way prop market offered? Like should I be able
to bet the under on the eighth guy on the
NBA team and his prop is like six and a
half points, Like I don't, I don't know. Maybe they
shouldn't be two way markets. That's and that's bad.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
That's me.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
That's bad for me as the gambler because like normally
you get way worse odds if they are just one
way market because people like playing overs, so those things
get like inflated, like the sharp money is often to
bet unders because people like betting overs.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Right, But I do wonder if a.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Potential solve for this is you can bet Terry Rogiers
over and that you cannot bet, but you cannot bets
on it.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
I think that there's that that might be a way
to help in the prop market a little bit, because
that is a legitimate problem, Like that is a legitimate
integrity of the game issue. And again I feel like
the leagues and the gambling companies, like the gambling company
might scoff a little bit, that's gonna cost us some money,

(18:44):
and the league's gonna say deal with it, Like you
want to be partners with the NBA, the NFL, Major
League Baseball, be our official gambling partner, like you've got
to take that one percent. Like people aren't gonna just
they're not gonna stop gambling. There's gonna gamble on something different,
you know. So that I've been thinking about it a lot,
I feel like maybe that's a potential saw no more

(19:08):
two way markets on player.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Props our brains work. Similarly, because I thought about this
interview I was doing with you tonight, and I was
thinking about prop bets, and I'm like, well, well, I
don't want it to go to the unregulated market. That's
that's nonsense. You can't. I mean, you just don't have
the same radar. But I do think my mind went
to the same thing. Is just no under bets, because
then it can be manipulated by you know, the whole thing.

(19:30):
Like Tim Donneghey always said, I wasn't trying to change outcomes.
I just called more fouls to get the over right.
And I've always been more concerned with officials in fact, Danny,
through the years. I you know, I got into this
discussion the day with a guy at the gym who
was a huge fan of yours, by the way, and
thanked me for hiring you, and I said, well, he's
tempted don't give me too much credit for that, but

(19:52):
smart guy, Yeah guy, the gym guy to the gym right,
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(20:58):
president in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee,
or Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about
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Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler Arizona, Colorado, Illinois,
New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. What I've always thought the

(21:26):
easiest thing to change an outcome is basketball, especially college basketball,
where there's three hundred and fifty Division one programs. Many
of the games aren't on TV. It's very easy. I mean,
I could go when I was playing basketball every day
high school college. If you told me missed the free

(21:48):
throw long and I certainly wasn't a great player, I
could absolutely do it. I mean, there's just it just
not They went back and looked at the nineteen seventies
Boston College videotapes. They went back the FBA. I went
and looked Danny. They couldn't find They could not find
a moment. And they looked. They said, we're not really
sure where it happened. And they and you know, Henry Hill,

(22:12):
you know there was prison time. Beyond indictment, there was
time servant. They couldn't find the actual plays. So I
think basketball is uniquely placed in a spot where, first
of all, there's a brotherhood. In football, there's a physicality
to it. I mean, if you if you get called

(22:33):
out on Monday's meaning for missing a block. I mean
players fear that that is that is a situation in baseball,
I guess you probably could swing in a bad pitch
boy in basketball, Danny missing an eighteen footer. These guys
are so good. I think it's a I think it's

(22:56):
probably happened more than we think. Good God, go back
to the Jordan finals. There was a gambling stigma. There's Donnegie,
there's this. I think basketball is uniquely vulnerable to this.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
I think for team sports, I agree with you. What
about if you're a great tennis player, or you're even
just like I'm better than my opponent, and I'm supposed
to beat him in straight sets, So the over under
for sets is three and a half.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
But you're like, I'm gonna hit a few.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Into the net and I'll just beat him in four,
and I'll bet the over on sets.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
In this day, there's been stories that tennis has been
the most rigg sport of all the sports. Well, right,
that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I think that what you're saying about team sports basketball
is probably the easiest to disguise.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
I agree with you, But the easiest.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Ones are the individual sports because no one else you
don't even have the guilt of letting someone out down.
You just have to live with yourself, like tennis, golf,
obviously boxing, you know what I mean. Like the individual
sports are the ones that it's probably the easiest to
manipulate outcomes, even if you don't change the outcome of

(24:14):
who wins or loses. But just like I said, over
unders props this match, I'm gonna I'm a golfer. I've
made the cut because I shot a sixty six on Thursday,
but I don't I'm not going to win the tournament
because it's going to finish it, you know, twenty five.
I'll shoot I'll shoot a seventy one on Friday, big deal.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Think about baseball, It's so damn hard to hit a
ball to begin with, It's hard to write a sport.
Hey listen, I'm only going to get a hit tonight. Shit,
you may go oh for the.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Series, right, absolutely. But the thought though was that now
in pro sports there's so much damn money that how
could it really be worth it? And Porter, Jontay Porter
and his brother Michael Porter, they got to stop talking

(25:06):
because like one who's like, you could have a bad game,
but like you could tell your boys you're gonna have
a bad game and you could hook it up and
everybody could make ten grand.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
It's like, shut up, like what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Like, But that's I think that's part of it too,
is that some of these guys are like literally trying
to like put their friends on and like, yeah, go
make ten grand. I'll have a bad night. My contract
is guaranteed. And so it's just the ripple effects of it.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
And so.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's going to keep happening. It has happened before, it
is going to keep happening. And I will say two,
this is bad, and it's weird that it's Chauncey Billups.
Have you yet had your mind go to the place
of like, wow, this could have been a lot worse,
because think about this, if it could happen to Chauncey Billups,

(25:58):
isn't it fairly remarkable that he was coaching a bad
team that wasn't trying to win anyway? Like if it had,
like Chauncey Phillips could have been the coach of the
next well.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
I think, I think, don't you think at some level
when you have a bad team, you you validate it
by saying, I'm just I'm gonna empty the bench anyway,
I'm going to do it. I'm just gonna give one
guy a heads up. I can see where this is
not the Western Conference finals where there are bonuses on
the line, the world's watching. It's hey, I was going

(26:30):
to rest three starters, I'll just rest six. I can
see somebody talking themselves into it. I listen. I guess
I could too.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
But if you can talk yourself into that and it works,
and then your team gets good and you started doing it,
like where where does it stop? Where does it stop?
And why did he need to do it? And like
we're gonna learn so much more.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
About all of this. Uh.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
The other thing that I've heard players say, and I've
talked to a couple about it, but enough of them
have said it publicly that I don't need to present
it like it's like any sort of proprietary thought. Is
the amount of like harassment that the players are now
getting from people in their DMS, people in their mentions, whatever,

(27:17):
because like you blew my parlay, that there's no solve
to it, Like there's no there's no I can't think
of a other than like I hope humans just start
behaving better. Uh, But like that, I understand why players

(27:38):
who aren't caught up in this hate gambling, because they
just got to be like god, God damn it. Like
it was one thing if I was getting yelled at
for like your fantasy team. Now it's like a college
kid who's in a fraternity at Alabama is dming the
quarterback because he blew his twenty dollars parlay. That's just

(28:00):
got to be. It's got to be every game for
every player constantly, and so like again, no solve, but
just like the unintended consequences of the reality of everybody
having access to everybody's pocket because everybody has a phone
and everybody's online, and now everyone's gambling. Like I'm not

(28:21):
gonna sit here and pretend like it's good, but it
is just reality.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
You know, it's funny too. The NBA, more than any league,
is a culture league, and that's empowered the league. It's
I mean, I just look at the NBA. There's there's
stories about Paul Pierce playing in poker games all night,
getting up the next night and dropping thirty yea, the

(28:44):
legendary stories Michael Jordan, you know in golf outings the
day of the NBA Finals or Eastern Conference finals.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah, playing blackjack in Atlantic City between games against the Knicks.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, and card games on the team flight. I mean,
the culture of the NBA is less brotherhood and more individualistic,
and guys take care of themselves and their friends. It's different,
it is the NFL's really about. There is I think

(29:17):
in the NFL because everybody's playing hurt every week and
so there is sort of this understanding that we're all
sacrificing in this. I mean, Mahomes' career is basically hinges
on people blocking for him. Basketball is you get yours, bro,
go get twenty five tonight. And the great ones, the
all time great ones, Danny as you know, they can
get thirty five a night. Luca could score forty every night.

(29:38):
Lebron could have scored forty five virtually every night. There's
no guarantee that Mahomes could go forty five of forty eight.
It's just a different sport. There's no guarantee that Mookie
Betts could hit three hundred for a season. He couldn't
hit until September. So the great basketball players. There's always
been sort of an independent cultural nature to it. And

(30:00):
I think part of gambling in football or baseball, you'd
be letting your teammates down. And in basketball, I think
there's a sense of like, bro, I am the team.
I mean, I don't know, it feels like to me,
you just get it more in hoops other.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
More more, I think more. I think more is probably
is probably fit. But I mean again, it's an addiction.
It can get anybody. Pete Rose in baseball, the Black
Socks in baseball, Like could a cornerback who knows he's
going to be assigned to guard, to shadow AJ Brown

(30:44):
tell his boys to bet the over on Aj Brown
and just bite on every double move. But you know
what I mean, Like you could, you'd let your team down,
you'd get crushed in the team meeting. But I'm just
saying like, if you are a gambling annict in terrible

(31:04):
debt or just have really bad judgment, and you are
a professional athlete, you can probably figure out a way
to manipulate an outcome, not guarantee an outcome, Like I
don't think a cornerback of an NFL team can guarantee
an outcome of a game, but you could give edge.

(31:27):
And you know, like that's all of these professional gamblers
are looking for. They're looking for edge, Like sure things
are great, but they're looking for edge. So I think
every sport is vulnerable to it.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
So this is interesting. Brian Windhorst said this on the
Rich Eisen Show. He said, I just want to point
something out. The sportsbooks caught the irregular betting on Terry
Rozier the day it happened, and guess them, and guess what.
The NBA roseer didn't play the rest of the season,
and he faked the injury, so it wasn't because of

(32:01):
the injury. The NBA pulled him because they knew it.
Oh that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
I mean, I knew that the league's caught it immediately
because of that, but I didn't even put that together
about the injury part of it.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
So the NBA knew, they pulled him. Pretend it's an injury. No,
you saw, for the record, you saw the internet Rosier
turnovers last year. I suppose. Yeah, yeah, of course they
didn't make sense. It looked like AI generated. It was insane.
I remember seeing them and thinking, there's something he's troubled.

(32:38):
I thought it was a a I thought it was
a sciotic episode. Yeah, I thought there was just something
wrong with him. So what Windhorse is saying is, no,
they knew, they knew something was up, and they and
they pulled him. Yeah that's interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
I mean, listen, bad day for the league, bad day
for the league. And I read Dan Wilkins column and
he was talking about like the erosion of public trust,
like are you gonna, like, are people going to keep
watching and keep believing that what they're seeing is on

(33:14):
the up and up and like eventually there could.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Be a tipping point with this sort of thing. And
of course, I I mean, I always I've been hearing that.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
I agree, I agree, I think that, Like we listen,
if it if a Super Bowl ended up being exposed
as being fixed, like, would the NFL ratings be down
the next year?

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Probably, you know, like probably like that. But but but
but but like but they wouldn't They wouldn't go to
like Monday Night Raw. You know, like it's not like
I really think.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
That we are so.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I'm talking addiction. We are so addicted it as a
culture to live.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Sports that it.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
They operate as if they are bulletproof, because they probably are.
Like that's that's the some people would turn on it permanently.
I mean, listen, there's a huge there's a sub section
of people, some of whom are in the media, that
legitimately believe that the NFL has rigged the Kansas City

(34:26):
Chiefs to become a dynasty.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Like you know, like the internet is just like people
have been red pilled and they have people go down.
You can get any conspiracy theory confirmed by your algorithm.
And so people believe that every call is is rigged
against them and that that's probably has gotten worse by gambling.
But I don't think that people are tuning out because
of it. No, I you know, like I but but

(34:50):
It's just it's just like going to be a thing
that people like us are going to have to deal
with in like, why aren't you talking about this column?

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Why aren't you talking about the fix being in for
the Chiefs? It's like, because it's not. I'll give you
an example of something that I haven't talked about and
nobody really cares. But I'm sure there have been people
that question it. The Pablo Torri Kawhi Leonard Steve Balmer investigation.
Oh yeah, here is. And the reason I haven't talked
about it is I don't care. The Clippers are not

(35:20):
a topic on LA Sports Radio. In LA, it's Dodgers, Lakers,
rams USC. The Clippers aren't a top so I'm as
a syndicated host, nobody cares. Secondly, remember when Lebron had
those comments about China and everybody killed Lebron and I
didn't cover the story. People have said that's cowardice, and

(35:43):
I'm like, it's bureaucracy. Nobody cares. That's not a good topic.
Ninety percent of what I do, I think I'm a
great topic selector. One of the things I've found through
the years NCAA stories, the audience doesn't care they know
they're incompetent. The Kawhi Leonard. I think Pablo Toy is great.
I tried to we looked at hiring him at the Volume.

(36:04):
I think he's terrific, But it's the Clippers. Kawhi is
an enigmatic, nonverbal, unlikable star. The Clippers are the second
that's about the eighth most popular sports topic in the
city in which they are based. And it's complicated. It's
a complicated story.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
But I like what you said about Pablo. Like, my
guess is you wish that that podcast was under the
volume's umbrella.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
I think it's made for podcasting, not made for broadcasting,
right that. Yeah, but those are two separate things.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
That's right, Like it not being a topic for you
and your audience and your TV and radio show is
like a totally reasonable, like editorial choice by you. But
since you brought it up, fascinating story. Yeah, Like between
you and me, right, just like if no one else
was listening to this right now, between you and me,
if we were having a cocktail, be like, holy shit,

(36:59):
there's there's something there, you know he was.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Joe Rogan is interesting. Joe Rogan has topics you could
never put on TV or radio correct of course, and yeah, absolutely,
I'm in my car for forty minutes. I'm like, lizards
are fascinating, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like I
every day choose stuff I can talk about in eight
minute segments. So one of the things about this this morning,

(37:27):
when I woke up and saw Terry rose Ere, I'm
like Jesus, so I first thought, is this. Am I
into this because I used to work in Portland? And
then I'm no MVP head coach. I thought he was
just in the poker part of it. Well at the
at first it looked like he was, yeah, and then
when people actually got to read the you know, dozens
and dozens of pages of the thing, it was pretty

(37:48):
clear that he's not just links to that. I don't
think it's I really, I think all of us bake in.
We don't trust our government, we don't trust politicians. We
hopefully we trust our partners. But yeah, I think nobody wins.

(38:09):
Leagues don't win, Vegas doesn't win, the sports books don't win,
the teams don't win. If there is rigged sports and
they all sort of patrol it the sauce, you can
control it with preactive proactive protection signage lectures symposing severe

(38:32):
punish or you can do it by finding it a
post investigation right or post action. So what I always
tell people who think about the rig stuff, I'm like,
if you would have picked the NFL to be rigged,
would you have picked the two New York teams to
be unwatchable for a decade? Right, of course? And then

(38:53):
Green Band, Kansas City, the cults of the surprise of
the league, all these tiny markets. Baltimore always good and
New York's always bad. So I think fans are prone
when they lose a bat to think it's rigged. Yeah,
and that's why that chorus is always, you know, ready
and willing to fire.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah. And I think also I forget who the stand
up comic is, but he's got a hilarious bit that
comes up in my algorithm, making fun of people who
believe in every conspiracy theory. But he's like, I also
judge you if you believe in no conspiracy theories. He's like,

(39:34):
you think the government's batting a thousand, like you know,
and so it's a it's a very funny punchline and
the and so like you know, was there something with
the the lottery to get Patrick Ewing to New York. Maybe,
like maybe there was back in the eighties, but like,
do I think it was rigged for Cooper Flag to

(39:55):
go to Dallas? No, I don't think that Adam Silver
and what Ernst and Young committed felonies to like commit fraud, right,
But like I think that, like there's just there's always
like a whenever a tragedy happened, there's immediately a cottage
industry saying that it was that it was a conspiracy.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
So this was an interesting to me, interesting journey with
Tim donnegie because I read a lot about it and
I brought him on my show before. And I think
Tim donaghue confused rigged with human a human condition. So
he would say, well, if this guy was officiating, he

(40:36):
always gave the veterans the call, and I always use this.
I officiated for three years in college eight dollars a
game child of Divorce. I ate because I officiated four
innermural games a night, and I'm not joking. I took
it very seriously. And what I believe that I really

(40:59):
I got to the I remember the guy that ran it.
He's like, you could be a professional official. He goes
you really care, and I'm like, yeah, I mean, these
guys are working hard. I'm going to beers and I'm
at frat parties with these guys. I don't want them
to hate me. I want to be a pro. And
one of the things I always found with basketball, Danny,
I always rewarded the more talented player because more talented

(41:21):
players always got the first step, jumped three inches higher,
and the other players were always reacting to the better athlete.
And so during the Tim Donneghe thing, I was like, Yeah,
the veteran star players do get the call because they're
better players, and they do get their ass in the
right spot and their elbows and the angle. And so
my take was always Tim Donicky thought there was lots

(41:44):
of guys doing it, and my take was, no, Tim,
that's the humanity. If you go look at baseball umpiring,
Danny and I really looked at this because a chapter
I wrote in one of my books there were umpires
that were pitcher umpires. Kurt Schilling talked about it. He's like, Hey,
this guy's had sick snow hitters, this guy's had none.
Some guys gave you the corner. Is that rigged Kurt

(42:06):
Showing used to keep a book on umpires. He's like,
this guy will not give you the corner. This guy will.
This guy gives you the inside strike, this guy gives
you the high strike. Herm Edwards told me this one time.
He goes there are a fishing officiating groups in the
NFL that do not call PI like you can grab
and push and they just they're very, very willing. The

(42:28):
lead official is it's an old school guy that likes physicality.
I think sometimes we think that's rigged, but everybody knows
in all these sports there are officials, you know, there
there was. It could have been Steve Javvy was always
good to road teams. He was like and that was
Steve maybe over correcting. I think it was Steve Javiting
thinking it was impartial. Yeah, yeah, Tim. Some of these

(42:50):
officiers like, I'm not going to be because a proximity
of fans. I'm not going to be a homer. That's
not rigged. That's just the human condition. That's just who
we are.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
But I can imagine someone listening to this entire podcast
and US fifteen minutes ago saying that we've probably seen
more fixed sporting events than we know of yeah, and
now saying, but that doesn't mean that things are rigged.
And that's why when people see an injury that doesn't

(43:21):
look serious, or a weird outcome, or a bad turnover
or a dropped pass or a horrible call, your mind
goes to it. And it's not it's not rational, but
it's like, well, if it happened with Donneghie, and it
happened with Pete Rose, and now it happened with Chauncey Billups,
and it happened with Porter, and it happened with Rogier,

(43:42):
and it happened with ABC and D College Program. It's like, well,
if I have fifteen examples of it happening, maybe I'm
spotting the sixteenth, Like maybe I'm on the wrong.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Side of it.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
And so like cause, so that's why this is fascinating
and why it's confusing and why I think it's a
problem where there can be improvements, But I don't think
it's a solve. Like I think this is a problem
without a solution because gambling is not going away. Legalized
gambling is not going away. In fact, it's going the
other way, right, we still don't have it's not federally

(44:14):
legal like there are people I cannot bet in New
York State on a legal app. I cannot bet awards, MVP,
Coach of the Year, Rookie of the Year, whatever. Now
I have ways to get bets down, right. I can

(44:34):
text a buddy in Illinois who will place the bet
for me, and then I'll venmo him the money or whatever. Right,
I have the ways to get it down personally. But
there are people who live in a state where they
cannot gamble, and they will drive Sunday morning across state
lines to place their bets, like people will find a

(44:56):
way that line in Jurassic Park, like nature will find
a way. Like I was when I was in Kansas
City when we did first things first before Chiefs Eagles
meeting with a buddy I used to do radio with
It's it's legal in Kansas and just becoming legal in Missouri,
but it hadn't come online yet, and he was like,

(45:17):
every Sunday morning, my wife knows nine am, I go,
I get Starbucks, I bring it home for her and
then I drive twenty five minutes across state line pull
off and there's fifteen cars at the same exit across
state line and it's people placing their bets in the
parking lot because they're crossing the state lines. And it's like,

(45:40):
is that addiction or is it entertainment or whatever. But
the point is is like it ain't going away. And
now Missouri has illegal so my buddy doesn't have to
drive across state lines anymore. And so if I want
to make a bet on you know, Yannis for MVP,
and I can't do it in New York, I'll just
text a buddy.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
I'll find a way to do it. So I owned
two wine stores in Connecticut, Maximum Beverage, and for a
long time, I mean there's there's certain every sent me
some pino noires, sent me some blends. Maximum Beverage, folks,
it's we got the best single barrel bourbons. Everything great.

(46:19):
So you know when I when when I was introduced
to this business, you know every it's the wild wild West.
I mean it's it's you know, what you can do
in New York Massachusetts. And we found out very quickly
that you know, if Connecticut had stores closed on Sunday,
well people in Connecticut would And let's just take a
forty five minute drive to the mass border. People are

(46:41):
going to find a way listen. I grew up in
Washington State. I don't know how it happened, but pot
was plentiful in my town from the time I was
twelve until the time it was legalized. It's just there's
a lot of plants. Everything grows in the Northwest, and
there was pot everywhere, and so you can, like we said,

(47:05):
prohibition doesn't work. People are going to bet, have sex,
drink and gamble. I love all of those things. Hey,
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Volume podcast Network. So I had to scrap my lead today, literally,

(49:19):
with twenty minutes to go, I scrapped my lead we had.
I thought I was getting a Coosh battel on the show.
What happened? Wow? Yeah, I thought it was Yeah. Wow.
I hope everybody realizes that in thirty minutes against the
best front line in the league, Wemby did wilt forty points,

(49:42):
no turnovers. Oh hell yeah, let's talk about it. Okay,
it's time out. What is he twenty two? Yeah? Okay,
forty points, thirty minutes, three blocks, no turnovers, fifteen rebounds
lost in all of this, that's one of the top
five lines in league history. Thirty minutes and forty he

(50:05):
shot seventy percent from the floor in Dallas has the
best front line in the league.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah, it it broke my basketball brain. Like I I
feel like, listen, I have loved him ever since I've
seen him as a prospect. Everyone has. I've talked about
him in like pretty like lofty terms because of what
he can be, but the maturity of the offensive game

(50:33):
that he showed last night. I put together like a
list of superlatives today on first things. First that I
ran past Nick in the segment that we do together
on Thursdays, and I was like, like, which of these
do you think at the end of his career, we're
going to be able to cross out the names of
the guys who currently have the records and it's going

(50:53):
to be him. So, like, three guys have the record
for most defensive Player of the Year awards with four. Oh,
he'll win twelve, That's what I'm saying. I but it's
like Ben Wallace, Rudy Gobert, they have four. Like I would,
I would lay minus five hundred that he gets more
than four defense. I mean, obviously the game minimum threshold

(51:16):
is like the only impediment to that. But like he's
twenty two, he's gonna I agree, twelve is on the board.
Only player ever to win the scoring title and defensive
Player of the Year Michael Jordan did it once.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Feels like one. Benyama could be the second. Think you
know what I thought about watching him last night? What's
that I always had this feeling that if you did
a one on one tournament, Michael and Lebron, Kevin Durant
would be up there. Yeah, the bigs. Jannis would be good,
but he doesn't have the ability, you know, because there

(51:53):
would be three in the key to make it fair.
I looked at that and I thought to myself, I'm
not sure how many points Lebron in his prime would
score on Wemby. I'm not sure he blocked a shot.
He got a rebound over Derek Lively last night, and
Jay Billis said it Lively six'. Eleven he looked like

(52:14):
a sixth. Grader he blocked a. Shot these guys that
are six ten and, long they turn. Around wemby moves
off his. Player he's blocking the ball near the, elbow
somewhere between the rest and the, Elbow AND i think to,
myself if you added six inches To Kevin durant and

(52:37):
had the same quickness and a little more, Length Like
i'm watching, him And i'm, Like i'm not really sure
how you defend. It you don't really.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Defend, This, no you. Don't you don't defend, It and
LIKE i Just i've been thinking about, it like basically all.
DAY i think we're gonna just see things that we've
never seen before that we're not even going to fully
realize what we're. Seeing, like, uh he did something last

(53:06):
year THAT i like demanded we get into breakfast ball
Because i'm, LIKE i promise, you no one cares about this,
game BUT i promise you no one's ever seen. This
he shot a three pointer and it was, like you,
know he's like fading back a little bit on the,
three like a pure jump, shot like he wasn't like
running towards the. Hoop he shot up a normal three,
pointer and he could tell off his hand that it was.

(53:29):
Long so he lands from the jumper and charges and
he tip. Slammed he put like a putback slam his
own missed three, Pointer like we've seen that on free,
throws but on a three. Pointer it was. Insane, Yeah
AND i just think we're gonna see we're, like did

(53:52):
he take two dribbles from half court and?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Dunk you, KNOW i THINK i think we're gonna just
like start to like.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Recap we're gonna have recalibrate what is actually.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Possible That's. Mike there's a story About Mike, krzyzewski AND
i Think Mark few was there In Jim. Bayheim it
Was olympic basketball and it was one of their first
looks At lebron playing in a, practice AND i had
heard this. STORY i don't know if it was from
a friend Of Jay billis or it was somebody That
AND i, like by the Way jay billis on pro.

(54:24):
BASKETBALL i think he does a good. JOB i really.
DO i think he Really.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
He clearly, cares he does his, homework he keeps it
to the. Game he's very.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Good, Yeah jay's pretty. Good AND i think it was
a friend of J billis that told Me jay had told.
Him they were doing a practice And skrzyzewski was at
half court kind of arms, folded sitting back on the,
bench and there was a loose ball And lebron picked
it up full, steam swooped in to pick it up

(54:53):
and dribbled twice and dunked, it And shrzyzewski just was beside.
Himself he's, like that's. Sick dribbles maybe five With, Jordan
and it was to your, point Like skrzyzewski was taken
back by. It he turned to The beheim or few
or both and just, went what did we just? Watch

(55:13):
Steve Kirk through a friend told the story one of
the first times he had to Face lebron and it
was just, LIKE i, GIVE i don't even know, Whatever
like what do you want me to?

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Do?

Speaker 2 (55:27):
SO i THINK i Think wemby. SIMILARLY i JUST i
was watching with my. WIFE i, said see that guy
in the shoes that are the bright. SHOES i, see
he'll probably be the best player in the league this
time next. Year AND i said it. Today luca And
sga can't dominate a game on the defensive, end And
giannis can't, shoot you, know beyond sixteen. Feet joki is

(55:51):
a more complete offensive, player moderate mid defensive. Player by
The All star, BREAK i, Mean Jesus danny six more
games like last, night is he the second best player
in the?

Speaker 1 (56:02):
League, YEAH i mean like SO i think that this
is it all depends on how we define, This LIKE
i always define that question by like the literal definition
of what that, means like like a scouts, eye like
the best basketball, player basketball people and media really just

(56:23):
not just, basketball BECAUSE i think we do it in football.
Too we, like LIKE i don't Think Tom brady is
the best quarterback BECAUSE i he is the most. Accomplished,
sure he is the goat but, like but like best
quarterback is not goat to, me to me because because
because it's like a scouting, term, right the guy last

(56:47):
night's the best?

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Player wey Is.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Wemby is the best player because LET'S i obviously agree with,
you jok is a better offensive players better. Pass, yeah,
yeah SURE i, agree but like how much better is he?
Offensively ten? Percent fifteen? Percent is he twenty percent better?
Offensively wemby is one hundred percent better defensively Than?

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Yoki so you know WHAT i?

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Mean, like, yeah the gap Between Like nick was saying
today That Anthony davis would have been like the number
one pick in the draft to like Guard, WEMBY i
would say it would be, honest, younger, stronger more like
like stronger basically Than Anthony.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Davis but like they're.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Both it's they're two of the top three or four
guys that you would choose to try to guard to Guard.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Wemby but, so, like.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
The gap Between wemby and the second best defensive player
in basketball is The Atlantic ocean compared to the gap
Between jokic and the second best offensive player in, basketball, Right,
like so he's, incredible, yeah and SO i but in,

(58:03):
basketball we usually, say, like you have to do it
in the. Playoffs you have to win AN, mvp you
have to win a title before you can have like
the best Player alive. TITLE i don't. AGREE i personally
am Like Aaron rodgers in his, Prime Patrick mahomes in his.
Prime they're better Than Tom brady Or Drew. Brees they're

(58:24):
not yet. MORE i Mean mahomes is actually not more
accomplished Than, breeze but like you know WHAT i, mean
like they're not have more yards.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Whatever but.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
That guy last, night he's gonna have a quadruple double this.
Year it's only happened four times in the history of the.
League it would not surprise no one's ever done it
more than. Once David robinson did it, once a team
did it. Once it would not at all surprise.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Me If Victor.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
Wenbinyama has multiple quadruple bubbles this season at twenty two.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Years, old, well it's Almost it's almost like In, hollywood
you don't have to win An. OSCAR i MEAN i
can remember the first remember the Movie. Capote, yeah of,
Course Philip Seymour hoffman AND i remember watching that movie
and he was In Boogie. Knights everything he was in

(59:12):
he was. Great BUT i remember In. CREDIBLE i remember
watching that and, thinking, oh that's the world's best. Actor
that if you go back and Watch kapoti and you
and you look At Truman capote's personality and what he,
did it doesn't sound anything like any other. Character AND
i remember watching it and just, thinking it doesn't matter

(59:33):
if he wins an, award that's the best performance of the.
YEAR i don't even. Know and so, LIKE i see
this all the time in, sports Where i'm, like and
we've seen this in, Tennis like you, Know fedder was
the most, profound but you know you're watching The djokovic
at some point that was, younger and you're, like, well
that's the more that's the more ferocious, player that's the

(59:53):
more intimidating. Player his winning points are more impressive Than.
Feeder feedder is just Like. Brady he's, efficient he's. Smart you,
know he has this capacity to play his best on
the very best, points but he loses many. Points SO
i agree with. YOU i THINK i Watched wemby AND
i didn't say this on the, air BUT i, thought
if he did that game like two more times in a,

(01:00:13):
Week you're, like that's the new. Standard, well that's the best.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Player, yeah well, no, right and, listen it is of
course possible that they keep his minutes low all year
and that the offensive efficiency cannot sustain at that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Level you, know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
It's possible that that's not like a majority opinion by
the end of the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Year but, like unless he gets, hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
YEAH i legitimately think he will win the next ten
Defensive player of The year.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Awards, Yeah i'm.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
NOT i think every year he plays the sixty five
game minimum into his mid early to mid, THIRTIES i
think he will win the Defensive player of The year
award every single. Year and then if you're a top
ten offensive player and the defensive player of the, year
you're the best.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Player that's just how it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Works i'm. Sorry it is a two way, sport like
offense is more important than. Defense but like he how
many shots do you think he altered last? Night or
how many shots do you think people didn't take because
he was there last? Night like it's it's, oh h
had three, blocks but he had to have altered twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Shots it's like teen. Shots how many times Did Dion
sanders get attacked in his? Prime you just threw to
the other side of the. Field so it's, like, right
people like really only had twelve. Interceptions it's like that's
because nobody threw to his. Side his interception percentage based
on targeted throws was through the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Roof, yeah you have to you have to watch the,
Game like you have to watch the game to be, like,
oh a six' nine dude is dribbling into the paint
and then retreating like that. Doesn't happen they all try to,
Get fouled like they all try to just jump over
for someone because they're six' nine and the other guy's maybe. Six,
to eleven no he's seven five And doesn't foul like

(01:02:05):
it's it's UNBELIEV and, they i know people keep wanting To.
Give them yiannis that. Would, be Insane obviously If jannis and,
wemby played together they would win the.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Title THIS year there I Think Between, stefan castle wemby they're.
RECENT draft picks i Wouldn't. Skill at harper they're starting. Five,
AS excellent YEAH i MEAN i think i could see Them. Trading,
dearon fox yeah like If If if dylan HARPER is
what nba people think he, Was GOING to like I
had an nba person tell me that they. Could not,

(01:02:40):
believe he's like people are under selling the fact that
they got the second Pick in, the everyone's, like oh
man it would have been amazing If It. Was cooper,
flagg like Yeah They're like dylan harper is going to
be awesome and he had fifteen points last NIGHT in
his nba debut and, Like look smooth like you notice
if that if that's, a real player did you know
they they're gonna be? Great this year so the last

(01:03:01):
couple of drafts have so last year's draft. Was very
good TWENTY twenty six nba drafts supposed, to be great
and two things are converging, The nil money american college
programs are Buying. The best spaniards they're Buying the best
european players to be getting about Ten to twelve european
players that were not in college basketball. Three, years ago

(01:03:21):
also about six to eight guys are staying in college.
One more year.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Did you see The story those izo comments about the
kids who went for the kid who WENT from the g? League,
TO college.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Yeah i DON'T know how i?

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
That? Doesn't it So like can lebron go play Four?
Years At duke, Like I'M confused like, i know that
like you can, get paid internationally and you can get
PAID In, the g league and you can get Paid
in college like technically, you have eligibility so, What's the,
difference but, like come on we gotta pay, On IT

(01:04:00):
somewhere like, I DON'T understand like, i was like is, those,
comments like oh that's kind of an old man Yells
AT clouds like, i, WAS like no i haven't been
following the, story very CLOSELY but Like i think, I'm
with him like we can't call it college basketball if
you can GO play and i get it, for international
players like if, you take it if you took money

(01:04:21):
from a under Eighteen team in lithuania and then you
want to Go, Play AT kansas like i got no,
Problem with that but like if you're twenty four years
old and you've BEEN In the g league, for three
years you could just go. PLAY college basketball i DON'T
know if. I, Like, that yeah no that. Doesn't, Seem, RIGHT.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
No no i mean that's the nil's got all these
like exits on it that are, very you know people.
Are always. YELLING you know i talked about This Today
with James franklin And billion ap, or everybody's like these
kids make a, bunch Of money, and i'm like the coaches.
Make eleven million now you got to. Be good teams
like the. WHOLE world's changed i used to think it
was ridiculous to fire. College Coach midseason, now, i'm like

(01:05:02):
well he made twelve million and he was bad against.
Top twenty teams it's time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
To, Fire HIM yeah and i have no problem with college, athletes,
Getting paid obviously, i'm, just like like this is a it,
has gotten complicated, like because yeah there of course there
will be kids that like go play college basketball and
make a few million bucks and stay in college because
that's going to be the height. Of your earning and
that's great and that's how. It SHOULD be but i.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
DON'T know that i love.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Pro basketball, still have eligibility like we got they got
to figure that part. Of it Out but ween binyama
now is like they're gonna be the thosset popular. League, Pass,
TEAM ever like i can't imagine missing. These Guys' games
like i'm. Gonna put it i'm gonna put him on
even if it's just the, second second screen just to
like keep an eye on it to see if he

(01:05:49):
like dunks from half court like it's it is insane
what that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Guy can do here's here's a weird thing that popped,
into my head the ability to go from the g
Lee the college like it's a line you you're. Not
comfortable crossing it's almost like if you go on a
ski vacation with four couples and everybody decides to put
on bathing suits and go in, the hot tub and
you're mostly naked sitting next to all, your wives friends

(01:06:15):
and then one guy just starts making out with one of.
The other, wives, you're like whoa that doesn't feel. RIGHT to,
me i know we're naked and we're in water and,
we have champagne but that's a lots of bridge too.
Far for me that's. What, You're, saying basically oh that's.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
A very specific example that if you want to unpack
that a. LITTLE bit more i know you probably have
some houses with hot tubs that, overlook THE mountains so
i don't. Know what situations. That sounds lovely, it sounds,
like you know let your. Freak flag, FLY but yeah
I just when, i read those my buddy said. It to,
me he's like what do you think? About g league players.
Playing in, college i'm like They're not, allow i'm like

(01:06:50):
they're Not allowed to and he sent me. The news,
article he's like what are? You Talking about is o went?
Insane Over it and i've like. Read the, ARTICLE i'm
like i need to catch UP with because i have
a Hundred. Percent with izzo like it just it just
doesn't even though you can make more money in college
than you CAN In, the g league and like maybe
there should be a loophole for international there should be
like an age, Minimum and maximum like they gotta. Figure

(01:07:13):
something out you should not be able to go be
COACHED by an nba organization and then go Play For.
THE missouri TIGERS i.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
JUST i don't i. Don't like it and you shouldn't
make out with your friend's wife just because you're half
naked in a hot tub with a glass Of. Champagne
and veil Everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Knows In veil now, i've, got, yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
Yeah hypothetically Speaking At the Four seasons in Veil At,
the four seasons And it Was don perry on and
there were too many strawberries with, chocolate on them but
it was, the white chocolate.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
So you understand that was that was fun that hour
flew by.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
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