Colin Cowherd Podcast - Wolves Stun Lakers + Knicks Beat Pistons In Thriller, Shedeur’s Slide Was Self-Inflicted, It Was A “Starter” Draft...Not A “Star” Draft, - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. As I've told you, Fubo is my favorite
way to watch live sports. Flying from Chicago to LA
this past week, I'm all over Fubo, NFL, NBA, Baseball,
College sports tournament, Baseball's here Masters next week. You know,
sometimes you're at one of your kids games, you're at
a family function. You just want you want that phone

(00:22):
and you want Fubo next to you. Just go to
FuboTV dot com slash colin Fubo FuboTV dot com slash column.
Get fifty dollars off two months of Fubo. I have
been using it for years. I'm addicted to do it.
It is the first place I check when I'm out,
but want to keep attached and informed on sports, and
they've got more than sports. But check it out. FuboTV

(00:43):
dot Com slash column fifty bucks off two months Fubo TV.
All right, welcome in Good Sunday Night Podcast. John Middlecoffee
be joining me in just about fifteen minutes. Let's talk Lakers.
They lose to Minnesota one sixteen to one thirteen in

(01:03):
a spectacular game. You know, people complain about the NBA.
Every arena packed intense, spectacular effort referees allowing him to
play the NBA is just fine. So Aunt Edwards, I'm
not sure if you knew. This led the NBA this

(01:25):
year in clutch time scoring in the regular season, but
Minnesota also played in forty six clutch time games, So
what does that mean. They've been in so many games
like this because.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
They're not.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
They're such an effort size and defensive led team. I
mean ants, they're one spectacular offensive player, Julius Randall. I
think he's played well in the series, but he's not
considered an a list score, especially in his playoff history.
So this is a team that has the best clutch
player and is the team that was the best clutch
team in the NBA. And by the way, when you lee,

(02:00):
when you lead a playoff series three games to one,
you have a ninety five point five chance of winning
the series. So and Minnesota has been a very good
road team. We talked about this back in Los Angeles
when the Lakers went down one oh of the tee Wolves.
Lakers are not a good road team. And what I
really noticed in this game is that basically JJ Reddick said,

(02:22):
we're not playing until Wednesday. We're emptying the tank on
our five starters. They put in what they call the
death lineup, Duran Finny Smith, and Minnesota's got much more
roster depth and versatility. The Tea Wolves can throw different
lineups at you and different matchups at you, Whereas the
Lakers have a really good starting five, and they played
them and they didn't sit them and so and I

(02:44):
think JJ looked at it and said, guys, we're going
to We're not going to get on a basketball floor
until Wednesday. We're getting on that flight, we're going home,
and we're taking two and a half days off. I mean,
they may have a shoot around, but in the end,
he emptied the tank and Lebron in year twenty two,
you can't ask them to go to practice tomorrow right
or the next day. So that was their strategy and
it almost worked. But I do think the Lakers need

(03:07):
a real off season to get the roster right. Remember,
they were going to get Mark Williams in that trade,
but they didn't get it right. The Lakers didn't make
the Mark Williams trade because team doctors for the Lakers
didn't pass it and Carolina was upset. But the truth
is it really hurt the Lakers. They could have used
his size in this series. They could have used again

(03:28):
the ability to do more things with their bigs. They're
kind of trapped. You know. If you start looking around
Jackson Hayes, you're not playing so jj Reddick doesn't trust him.
It's like Kurr not trusting Kamingo. What do you do?
So Mark Williams would have been a huge asset here,
a really good defensive stopper, a real physical presence more

(03:52):
than just a lob guy. And I think they need
an off season to get it done. You know, in
terms of what the Lakers did, Listen, Austin Reeves was
a no show in the first half, had a great
third quarter, but you know, I thought, once Lebron made
that incredible block and then Dorian Finney Smith came down
and hit the three, I thought, wow, there's your game.

(04:12):
But then the Lakers on the inbound the ball get stolen,
and is that kind of a fatigue thing setting in?
Possibly could be again, I think there's always a I
wouldn't call it an upset. I like the Lakers in
five or six games. I think they still have a
chance to win it, but they're just they just don't
have the roster versatility and guys like Nasred are so

(04:33):
good in the fourth quarter. He's you know, he is
one of those classic guys that everybody in the league
knows how great he is, but he's not selling a
lot of jerseys. He is such a valuable commodity. I mean,
everybody in the league should have an Osrid, every team
in the league. And you know, you think about that
and you think, well, I mean, don't go crazy, but

(04:54):
a lot of great players don't fit on all rosters.
Like if you have Lebron James, especially in his prime,
I mean, it drove Kyrie Irving crazy. It reduced Chris
Bosh to a corner player. You had to run. The
ecosystem of the offense had to go through Lebron, and
it could marginalize certain players. But there are guys in
this league that are effort guys, big basket guys, tough guys.

(05:15):
They just fit everywhere and read as one of those dudes.
So a spectacular game for Aunt and again talking about
Mark Williams not being a Laker, look at the advantage
points in the paint. Minnesota forty six to thirty, a
sixteen point edge in the paint and there's your ballgame,
just a spectacular, intense NBA basketball game. And the other

(05:40):
thing when you make these big moves at the trade deadline,
like the Luca trade. Obviously long term it benefits the
Lakers more than Dallas, but it is it does feel
like it's historically rare that you make like a trade
deadline move, even a great one, and it equals a
championship in year one. Remember, Luca had to play himself
back into shape because he'd been injured. So lucas playing

(06:01):
himself back into shape. And I still think Luca's got
another ten percent of elevation to his game next year.
And so you get an off season, you tweak the roster,
you get another big Luca comes in in good shape
and not injured in camp hopefully. I mean, Lebron feels
like even if he loses five percent of his game,

(06:22):
I mean, you can see Lebron can still give you
these incredible both his games in Minneapolis. Lebron can give
you these unbelievable games. He's not going to give you
a seven and seven game series, but everybody's equally rested
in the playoffs. So Minnesota now looks to close it out. Boy,
the Lakers had that fourteen oh run to start the
third quarter, and I'm sitting there thinking, okay, all right,

(06:45):
let's get serious and then just chipping away, chipping away
roster versatility, depth and chipping away. All right, let's talk
about the Knicks beating Detroit ninety four to ninety three.
I thought the Pistons were the better team, and I
thought they should have won the game. That last CALLA
now acknowledges it was a foul. Let me talk about this.
If you look at the box score, it looks like
Detroit one. The Knicks shot much better from three point land.

(07:07):
Other than that, I mean field goal percentage forty three
thirty seven, Detroit free throw advantage. Detroit was great at
the free throw line the Knicks for eleven of eighteen.
Detroit dominates defensive rebounding, but the Knicks had twice as
many three point shots. There's your ballgame. Let me Kate Cunningham.
By the way, is I'll say it again, he's gonna

(07:28):
be a top eight, top ten player in the league
next year. He got a great look to win that game.
Ball bounced around, went to the corner. No foul call.
But Cunningham got a great look, he can create his
own shot. He doesn't need to pick and roll. Guy,
good handles, big body, pro athlete, stop and start game,
very fluid athlete. Cade's the real deal forumber. Number one

(07:50):
pick out of Oklahoma State. He's just now he's put
three and four years into the league and you're seeing
his game is now very, very refined. So in terms
of the last call, it was obviously it was a
bump and a foul. So I'm a huge believer in
letting the players play in the postseason. I think it's
more intense. I think it's better for the fans. I

(08:10):
think you're not going back and forth parading to the
free throw line. I just think it's really intense physical basketball.
And Lebraun and Ant are just banging on each other,
just just captivating. And this game they allowed a lot
of physicality because these are not necessarily beautiful offensive teams,
right like the like Boston or Oklahoma City or Cleveland.

(08:31):
You know, the Knicks are a feisty, physical team and
Detroit probably needs another player to get you know a
little more aesthetically pleasing offensively. So this is going to
be a tuggle war. The downside to allowing physical play
has always been one that can create fights. You don't
want that. But the real issue is obviously the league,
you know, either through memo or through discussion, has told

(08:53):
you guys, let them play, let the let the players
decide the games, and it's much better basketball. This is
why historically veteran NBA teams have done so well in
the playoffs over younger teams. You know, you're watching the
Clippers and the Nuggets, which is an incredible series. It's
just ten year vets going back and forth, and they
understand it. The issue becomes when you allow that sort

(09:15):
of physical play. And I did think the Pistons outplayed them,
and I'm not necessarily sure. Usually in a playoff series,
you get to Game four or five, you kind of
feel like there's a better team. I'm not sure. I mean,
I think the Knicks are better. I don't feel like
by much. I mean, obviously that cat three point bomb.
Brunton hit a couple of huge clutch shots. I mean,
that's the difference a shot here or shot there. The

(09:36):
downside to allowing physical officiating is in the last minute
and half of a game, so you know these psychologically,
the refs are letting them go, But we do expect
on final shots or the final two to three possessions,
you got to tighten the belt a little bit. You know,
if a guy's hitting a brushing an elbow, fans are like, well, well,

(09:57):
well that's a foul. So you know, the psycholog the
psychology of it is, you're allowing for three hours this
incredibly intense banging in physical play and letting stuff go
all over the floor. But then what do you do
in the last two to three possessions per team? You know,
it's like, hey, earlier in the game, it doesn't change

(10:17):
the outcome, it just changes the score. When you allow
physicality in the last two to three possessions, it can
change the outcome of a game. And there's an expectation
you got to call that bump. So I don't think
it's easy to officiate NBA playoff games. In the last
two minutes of a playoff game, I think it's like,
you know, you get to these NFL playoff games with
pass interference. You go to a Super Bowl, they let

(10:38):
a lot go. You don't see very rarely will you
see a lot of penalties in a super Bowl or
a conference championship. Let them play but if you get
to the final drive of a game in the Super
Bowl or a conference championship and there's clear grabbing, do
you let that go too? That's that's not just a call,
that's an outcome changer. And so I think it's very

(10:59):
difficult to officiate these games for the NBA in the
last couple of minutes. And we've had multiple controversies in
the Lakers Minnesota game, the Clippers, Nuggets game, the Pistons
Knicks games where you're like, are you going to call that?
Are you going to call that? And so it was
a missed uh officiating, It was a miss. It was
an officiating gaff. I think New York's going to close

(11:21):
this series out. But you got to feel great if
you're the Pistons. I mean, you got your superstar in
Kid Cunningham, you got a couple of veterans. It's not
the prettiest lineup, but they're well coached, they fight like hell,
and it's been just so interesting to watch this series.
I got to tell you that Cat three one of

(11:43):
those shots of the plus, I mean, Aaron Gordon's dunked
to win it for the Nuggets. By the shot of
the playoffs, that cat bomb was. He's such a gifted
offensive player and so limited defensively, and he's a quirky player,
but I mean Rockets Warriors. Steph on a classic Jalen
Green cape mandick back down to earth. All these playoff

(12:04):
games have been so fun? All right, let's get into
John Middlecoff, former NFL scout three and Ounces podcast. Let's
chop it up about the NFL Draft. The NBA eighty
two game grind is done. Now the real fun begins.
The NBA Playoffs. Love them, They're here. Time for drama,
clutch moments, Steph Curry, Lebron joh dropping plays. I can't wait.

(12:27):
If you're looking to make the playoffs even more exciting,
DraftKings Sports Book. As you cover, they're the official sports
betting partner of the NBA, playing games all the way
to the finals. Now's the time to back your favorite
players and teams as they chase glory. So all season long,
DraftKings been the go to spot for NBA player props.
That doesn't stop now. If you want to make your
playoff experience even more intense, try placing a bet in
your favorite player's performance. Will they drop thirty forty? Who

(12:49):
knows or more. It's your call. If you're ready to
place your first bet, download the DraftKings sports book gap
takes ninety seconds, lock in your bets and let's make
the playoffs unforgettable. Here's something special for first timers. DraftKings
customers that are new bet five bucks. That's hit five
bucks and get two hundred bonus bets instantly, just making
a playoff run to remember with DraftKings, download their sportsbook
app takes ninety seconds to codes colin C O L

(13:10):
I N, that is code colin. New customers get two
hundred bucks in bonus bets betting just five only on DraftKings.
The Crown is yours.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler in New York
called eight seven seven eight hope and wire text hope
and y four six seven three six nine in Connecticut.
Help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight
seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG
dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino
in Resorting, Kansas twenty one on over agent eligibility varies
by jurisdiction, Void and Ontario. New customers only bonus bets

(13:41):
expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance, four
additional terms and responsible gaming resources see dkanng dot co
slash audio.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
All Right, John, Obviously, this story of the draft with
Shdhur Sanders had just dominated. Milkiper lost his mind. So
I want to throw I want to start with this,
and you know this. So basically I would have drafted
Shadeur Sanders if I was the Pittsburgh Steelers. So I
don't think they needed a defensive lineman as much as

(14:19):
they needed in a division. With Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson.
In the conference, with Josh Allen, Justin Herbert and Patrick
Mahomes and c. J. Stroud, they don't have a quarterback
room of note. I think Will Howard's a backup in
the NFL. So congratulations on getting another defensive lineman. But
I would have drafted Shideur Sanders. That said, once he
started falling in the draft, I started making calls. I

(14:40):
went on the internet and it was very interesting. So
two general managers who I hold in sort of my
like circle of trust and I think are really as
good as general managing gets in this league. Not Howie Roseman,
but there's another eight guys or so that I like,

(15:01):
you know, a couple of them had said to my
friend Steve Kime. Steve Kaim had asked because he had
Jalen Milroe as a client for Clutch Sports, and he
had asked a couple of Jim friends, Hey, about a

(15:21):
month ago, what do you make of Shador Sanders? And
both said, you know, his tape isn't great. Uh, Like,
you know, there's a lot of stuff you don't like
on his tape and he's not a great athlete. But
that said, I still think he's accurate enough to be
a you know, in a bad quarterback draft class too,
to not fall to where he fell. But I'm gonna

(15:45):
I'm gonna start with this, which I talked about on
my own YouTube, uh you know pod this weekend, is
that when a guy does fall and you're seeking answers
for it, you start going back and examining things. And
things also start surface after the first round. Stories start
to surface that we're not talked about pre first round.

(16:11):
Clearly the interviews were worse then. It wasn't just a
story that bothered people. It was true and there were
more than one instance of a bad interview. But I
had said this too, is that once you didn't see
Shador Sanders as a starter because of the smoke and

(16:32):
noise around him, with Dion basically his dad at Super
Bowl week saying we're going to control this. There are
certain teams were not going to play for Travis is
going to go one. My son's going to go three.
That I did wonder John like the t bo or
Cam Newton effect. If he's not the starter? Do you

(16:54):
want the Dion noise as a backup for a year?
Do you think that is what teams thought about once
you got to the second round? Is okay, now he's
a backup, and I'm not sure teams love that t
Bow level noise, celebrity quarterback backup stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
I mean obviously, like you, I did a lot of
digging these last couple of days because I liked him
as a player, and I just assumed he'd go somewhere
between like ten and forty five. Yeah, you know, maybe
in the first round, maybe in the second round. So
when he precipitous fall of the fifth round, you get
to start texting a round. And You've said this for
a long time, quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard

(17:33):
it's also why they make fifty million dollars a year,
you know, I mean it's also why I would say
they are now viewed as the biggest celebrity in sports,
right up there with like, I mean a level of
like Lebron and Steph Curry. Immediately, Yes, So I would
say from what I've heard, he had one of the
worst off seasons that these teams have ever seen from
from a quarterback prospect. And that could be from a

(17:55):
first rounder to a seventh rounder, right right, because they're
all they all act. You are a product of your class. Right.
So if I'm a good looking girl and I walk
into a bar and there are ten supermodels, I'm not
going to be viewed as highly as if I walk
into a room with a bunch of ugly people. And
in this class, it was a bunch of high level cats.

(18:15):
Cam Ward, I know people with the Titans, they loved him.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Drew Brees said this a long time ago. Playing quarterback
is like seventy thirty intangible off the field upstairs thirty
my physical qualities. Peyton Manning couldn't beat me or you
in a race. He didn't have a big arm. Tom
Brady said he I couldn't play any other position in
high school football beside quarterback. So this class from Jalen Milroe.
People love the guy. Dylan Gabriel, he had to be

(18:40):
one of the favorites when it came to the coaching staffs.
Obviously the Will Howard's, the Riley Leonards. These guys are
the most impressive people of the entire draft. When these
coaches and these gms are meeting with them, they leave
the room and these coaches go, God, I wish, I
wish Riley Leonard, Will Howard were better players. And they
get drafted in the fifth, sixth, seventh round. Most people think, yeah,

(19:01):
he's probably not gonna be in the NFL long, but
we love the guy and shadors off the field, it's
not bad, never been in trouble or anything. But when
you act, there are only so many teams right supply
demand thing. Well, six teams last year drafted quarterbacks in
the top six. They're immediately out. There are several quarterbacks
on rookie contracts, they're not going to be in the mix.

(19:22):
And then the veteran teams Andy Reid, the Bills, the Ravens,
they're just consumed. We're trying to win the Super Bowl
right now. So it's a small, small group. Yeah, right,
So the small group, well, those are the people he
met with and clearly turned them off. And mcshay's been
coming out with this report what happened with the giants
of like I don't need you. That never happens. And

(19:43):
I think it's become popular because if you look at
these comments online, it's like, go against the establishment, go
against the man. It's like, guys, this is a business
that if you're decent, you will make forty million dollars
a year. Find me another industry that pays that level.
And if you're like cam Ward, who is viewed as
a fifth round pick, comes back, does all the right things,
plays well. People love the guy. He's a first round pick.

(20:06):
He's gonna get forty million dollars guaranteed. So if he stinks,
if he's Trey Lance a good example, people love the guy.
Couldn't play, but he made forty million dollars. You know,
So this to carry yourself. Listen, we all look up
to our parents, right or whoever raises us, And he
looks up to his dad. His dad is one of
the greatest players of all time. Right, and his dad

(20:27):
can act however he wants, just like great players can
always act however they want, because in a business like
pro sports, they're gonna there are only so many of them.
His son was not that, and I think that really
turned people off. The other thing that really bothers me
is this narrative of like this is the NFL pushing
back against nil. It's like guys Kim Ward just made

(20:47):
like three million dollars playing at Miami the NFL, every
GM's a millionaire. Every assistant coach now is probably a millionaire,
and obviously the head coaches are all making ten to fifty.
They don't care at all. Travis Hunter, I googled his
NIL deal. I mean it was reported between four and
five million dollars. It's not being a good person. I
mean all these kids in college, the entire first and
second round, they were driving range drovers in g wagons

(21:10):
last year in college. It's not about the money or
the nils. Just like one, there were a lot of
red flags guys that were drafted well above Shador Sanders.
Those guys are viewed as good players. Now. I think
Chadors a solid prospect, But what I've heard about the
way he's acted like he would be an immediate turn
off to any human being right in any industry. That's

(21:30):
not how young people act. And I think that they
tried to change their tactics from what I've heard the
last months, but it was too late. It's hard to pivot.
And again, you're just compared, like they view you in
a group with Jalen Milroe and Dylan Gabriel, and so
that's who you're compared to. You're not compared to cam Ward.
He has nothing in common with you, but he already

(21:50):
people like him on and off the field. So the
group you're compared to, it's like, well, we love the people,
what's up with this guy? Anytime? It's like, what's up
with this guy? And you play quarterback? Yeah, like that's
a problem.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah. So I talked to an NFL general manager yesterday
and he said, he said, Colin, he said, the conversation
we talk about players in this league, the conversation with
quarterbacks is a separate conversation we talk about We talk
about quarterbacks like I would as a GM talk about

(22:23):
coaching prospects. I'm talking about your temperament, your leadership. One
of this gms said when I hire coaches, very rarely
will you get Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan's scheme excellence.
You're hiring CEOs. Mcveig is a CEO. Dan Campbell's not
a scheme genius, he's a CEO. And he said, that's

(22:47):
what you're so he goes, that's what a quarterback is.
He's your CEO on the field, So temperament, maturity. Do
guys rally around him? So the interview, how do you
hire Sean mcvahan. Not let him out of the building.
It's not his resume, it's his interview, And so I
do think and this stuff. You know, obviously Brian Dabole

(23:07):
the Giants is going to say it, oh, the interview
was great because Brian Dable has to go back on
that Colorado campus over the next four or five years
or next ten years. So you'll never hear a coach
bang on a university or a coach because that coach
is going to have four to five NFL players the
next year. So you just swallow it and go, yeah,
that was a great interview. But I think there's more

(23:28):
than enough smoke here that that process wasn't great, And
I you know, I'll say it again, I do not
like and again I did not think this would be
an issue, but I was forced to talk about it.
Once he's dropping out of the first, the second, the third,
the fourth, Then I'm forced to talk about it. And
my take was, well, if you're really making me pick,

(23:49):
what's a problem. I do think Dion during super Bowl
Week exclaiming this is on our terms. It wasn't until
mid to late March that Dion went Okay, he can
go anywhere, and I think it pissed people off. I
know I know one team that was totally turned off.
And remember, you go into a draft, John, as you

(24:09):
noted earlier, there's usually like, for instance, the Rams, the
Rams decided before this draft they were going after a
quarterback next year. That the Rams made a decision in house,
we probably need to get one in house, but we're
going to go for it next year. That's why they
made that trade with Atlanta to get two first next
year because their first will be deep. So they're looking

(24:30):
for a top twelve to fifteen first and if they
have to use both to get like the second pick,
because you're going to have Drew Aller, Clemson's quarterback Arch
Manning so if they want to get up to like
third or fourth in the draft, they need a second one.
So the Rams. There's about seven teams a year that
need a quarterback, either as a starter or a backup,
and the Rams immediately decided with their trade, we're getting

(24:53):
ours next year.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
I think if you just looked at all the starters
in the league the team are either obviously elated to
have or feel good about, I don't think you would
find one that is in basically an A plus off
the field.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
And I think the one guy who's clearly mature, I
don't know if Kyler Murray would fall under a plus,
but he's clearly matured. I mean now living in Arizona,
seeing the comments from him, and from a talent standpoint,
I mean, you're older than me. He's got to be
one of the most unique talents in the history of
pro sports. That's what I mean. He's one of the
great blue chip physical attribute talents in any sport. Ever,

(25:34):
we won't see a guy again get drafted in the
top ten and number one over court. He's type ninth.
So it's like, yeah, it was a learning curve in
his maturity. He's matured. Some guy's mature, slower. We've seen
Baker and some of these guys, but for the most part,
they are a plus everything in terms of leadership, in tangibles,
work ethic, people just like being around. There's no question.
It never comes up. The last unit in the building

(25:56):
I want to think ever about is my overall quarterback unit,
even just my starter, just the group. I know I'm
going to have a couple d line issues, maybe a
wide receiver, the quarterback issue. It's the last thing on
my mind beside like an injury or something that I
have to make like a tangible transaction for And he
basically handed him Like they started seeing what they see

(26:16):
in other positions and they're like, this is insane and
this is ocean that like the collusion and stuff. It's
just it was honestly kind of embarrassing by a lot
of people around the NFL. I think it you know,
former players and stuff. I think it was bad look
by a lot of people that have no fucking clue
what they're talking about.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Well, it's you and I basically you have you worked
in the league, and I have more sources. There are
two conversations that go on about the NFL. One is
public one as private. I'm talking to two people today.
Those conversations never hit the air, but they're giving me
background on stuff. I do not think we both like
Shador as a player, like not love. I don't think

(26:55):
he's a bad guy. I want to clarify. I don't
think he's a bad guy. No one does. No one does.
I don't think he's a bad guy, but I do.
You know, I said this on the show Friday, paying
for the quarterback draft room with legendary all over it.
It's like, bro, come on, just just the New York
Giant shoes. It's like, dude, just scale back a little
until until you're drafted, then do whatever you want. And

(27:19):
then you combine it with his dad, who did not
you know, I've been saying this quarterback Dad's become pageant mom.
Then his dad in January and February during Super Bowl
interviews as saying they're just some teams we're not going
to play for. It's like, Dad, you're not helping here.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Well, I'll give you two examples. I mean your boys
with Kime he's representing and clutches Jalen Milroe. Everyone that
met Jalen Miloe is like he's not even accurate, and
they're like, we want to like this guy. I mean,
the best example in recent memory is Chris Ballard, who
I would say the Colts plays a pretty high premium
on the person. And I remember hearing all this about
Anthony Richardson. They're like, you know, I wanted to not

(27:58):
like Anthony Richson based on his tape, But then you
start meeting them in the draft process, the league start
to like him.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I heard this about EJ. Manual years ago. I met EJ. Manuel.
You fell in love with a human.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Most quarterbacks, it's like, God, I love this guy. You know,
hold your girlfriend tight because you're just like that. Those
are the type people they gravitate toward. And this is
the first one in recent memory that turned everyone off.
Like this was universal. And again when I say everyone,
Andy Reid and the Eagles aren't spending time scouting this
guy closely. So it's a small group of.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Teams that he needed.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
And so you go to the fifth round like he
is now it's we can just talk about the room.
It's very difficult. There are there are only so many
reps at practice, so we know Joe Flacco is going
to be the starter. And then they got this group.
I think it's pretty clear that the coaching staff and
the GM two IVY League guys they like Dylan Gabriel,

(28:51):
so why they drafted him in the third round. I
think it's fair to say Jason Lloyd, who's like the
Tim Kawakami of the Cleveland Area covers all these Cleveland
sports wrote a pretty an article on the Athletic yesterday.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Oh he is.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Clearly you know this was an owner pick because what world.
Look look at the reaction on Twitter. You know they
got posted. In the draft room, Stefanski looked like you
wanted to jump off a bridge. Andrew Berry's comments in
the press conference was like, yeah, the value, but the
way they talked about Dylan Gabriel and the other players.
We have a history now with Jimmy Hasle, like Deshaun

(29:23):
Watson was out until Jimmy said no, we're doing this.
And now you get into another situation where it's like
you drafted a quarterback. Kind of take a step back.
You're gonna have a couple draft picks, but Jimmy has them,
because in what world does it make sense? Because you
go well in any other position, you take multiple quarterbacks. True,
but in practice, I can rotate my tight ends or
my running backs from my defensive lineman literally every play.

(29:44):
If you go to an NFL or a college practice,
you're ones and twos. If there are twelve reps during
a session, the ones get eight and the twos get four.
You don't have that many spots for like the six quarterbacks.
So how Gabriel's drafted higher, he's going to get more spots.
I think it's just a weird It feels like it's
got Jimmy Haslam written all over it. And you see

(30:06):
the look on Stefanski's face, like, guys, get me out
of here. This is crazy because how could you go
from Deshaun Watson to then taking a quarterback in the
third round to then taking him in the fifth with
everything that comes along with it. It doesn't make that
much sense. Also from a yeah, I don't know. I
just I think it's just a clunky, weird spot. I

(30:27):
don't It's not out of Shador's control, but it didn't
make sense. No one takes a quarterback in the third
and a fifth. It never happens. It's a numbers game.
It just you can't practice.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
My guess is Flacco wins the job in Shadure is
probably more impressive in practice. I mean, I think he's
better than Dylan Gabriel and I just think he is.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Mean I do too, But this is the other element,
you know, if Jimmy does force them to do it,
which to me, I agreed with the take. I'm like,
that's what it felt like. You can still It's not
like Jimmy sets the practice schedule, who's getting the reps
so you can manipulate it as a coach. Happens all
over the league, right, you talked to some of these gms,
like a player, the coach likes a player, and you
kind of you can argue all you want in the room,

(31:11):
but at practice, the GM doesn't get to run practice.
So I'm with you, Like, I think Shador is a
better player than Dylan Gabriel. I think drafting Dylan Gabriel
in the third's pretty bold, Like, yeah, I didn't love
that pick. So my theory was they're no dummies. They've
been around Jimmy long enough they realize that, like, as
Shador falls, he's going to force them to take Shador Sanders.

(31:33):
So they go, listen, we'd love to take this guy
in the fourth or fifth, let's take him now. So
it kind of shuts him up. But then Shador just
kept plummeting and they didn't have a choice once they
got to the fifth round, when he's like, you gotta
do it. So my theory is they overdrafted him to
shut up the owner. And because any visual you saw
of Stefanski and Barry, he's right over their backs. Right

(31:55):
you see most rooms the owners next to him or
in the corner, just like hanging out. He's right behind him,
kind of hovering. I mean, it's a that's a bizarre place, Colin,
it really is.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, I mean it's you know, just to show you
how much intangibles matter that you talked about earlier, think
about this. Baker Mayfield won a playoff game for the
Cleveland Browns, and not only when a playoff game, beat
their number one rival, the Pittsburgh Steelers, and they moved

(32:28):
off him, not because he couldn't play because of the intangibles.
Think about that. Just say, Cleveland Browns win a playoff
game over the Steelers, that should give you three contracts.
They moved off him. So when people listen to this
and think, well, the intangibles, no, it's a seventy to
thirty intangible league when it comes to quarterbacks. Baker has

(32:50):
now matured and they love him in Tampa and I
love the fit, but they moved off of him Andrew
Berry and Stefanski because he kept inflaming press conference and
he just couldn't He just wasn't ready for to be
like lead of franchise. So your point is, I've said
this for years about Dak Prescott. He's not an impressor
impressive thrower of the football. His intangibles are amazing, his

(33:13):
tangibles are mediocre. Dan Mullen came on my show, had
him at Mississippi State. He's like, hey, he's not impressive
throwing the football. I mean we never thought, oh, he
throws the best football on Mississippi State. His intangibles were
through the roof. So this stuff absolutely matters.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I mean, look a look at Party. You know, I
would say his intangibles, he's He's got Patrick Mahone's level
in tangibles.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
All right.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I mean, Sam Darnold is talking now for two years
about what he's taught him off the field. Party's like
twenty five years old. So you can get by with
average characteristics which Shadoor has Dak, I would say, cousins,
it would fall under that, right, Jared Goff's not exactly
quick or a huge arm By being elite off the field,
your study habits how you are as a leader, how

(33:58):
you are as you know, the captain is the guy
that everyone's falling. I think Tampa really benefits from getting
the version of Baker that they have now, who is
like I think everything John Dorsey wanted and Jason light
now benefits from that. So listen, where do you get
drafted doesn't define your career. You know, people freak out always,
and you and I have talked about this, like getting

(34:18):
drafted in the third round is some travesty. It's like, guys,
there's a small percentage of people that are even playing
high level D one football, And you see by the
draft picks, if you don't play in the SEC or
the Big ten, you're at a huge disadvantage trying to
get to the league. So like, listen, he is a
fifth round pick that he fallow couple round sure, but
if he's good, the cream usually rises in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, and I do think he is a first or
a second round pick. Yeah, I was watching the draft
and there were three players that jumped out to me
that I think it's a very This signifies that it
wasn't a star draft, but it was a starter draft.

(34:58):
Cody Simon gets drafted by Arizona, a team that had
a good draft, in the fourth He was an trummendous
inside linebacker for Ohio State. He was in on every play,
every run play, he was there. Damien Martinez the Seahawks
get him the Miami running back in the seventh round.
He averaged four and a half yards of carry. Jabar

(35:20):
Mohammad for Oregon a starting corner for Oregon. The Jags
got him as an undrafted free agent. Now he's a
He's not a great athlete. His vertical went from twenty
three to like thirty in the combine, so he really
worked at it. But those are not maybe great players.
But in any draft that Cody Simon for Ohio State's

(35:41):
going in the middle fourth round, to me, that's a
pretty decent draft. That is a football player.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, to me, it's not. I don't think people would
bet their careers on the high end, like a bunch
of All pros and Hall of famers. But I think
when you look at the second and third round, and
you and I are degenerate Saturd Day football watchers. There
are a lot of guys that are gonna play in
the NFL for a long time. I mean the amount
of running backs and defensive linemen that were drafted on

(36:08):
the second day. I mean both Ohio State kids once
started at Old Miss, Jenkins and Henderson I think are
both going to be really really good players in the NFL.
And they're countless defensive linemen that we're taking that are
going to be high level players. Receivers, I mean we
see this every year. I mean the amount of guys
they're going to go in the third, fourth, fifth. Tes Walker,

(36:28):
the wide receiver from Oregon. I'm might be screwing up
his name. First name Tess, who's bo Nix's former roommate
who like they kind of adopted him. He's like one
hundred and sixty pounds. That guy's a fantastic player and
they got I think the Tampa Bay Buccaneers got him
in the seventh round. So sometimes guys just fall because
they're small, they have a bad combine, they have, you know,

(36:50):
an injury that limited their tape as seniors, and we
see it all the time. A guy that's a fifth rounder,
all of a sudden is way better than the second rounder.
It's why you and I talked about the Van Pelt
rant about the grades. I've been going to these training
camps for so long. You get there, you're so excited
to see, like, oh, let's look at the first rounder,
and then all of a sudden, you're like, who's that.
You're like, that's the undrafted free agent. He ends up
making the team. By the middle of the year, he's

(37:12):
the starter. So it's the NFL. This is not basketball
where if your first round pick minimum, you're going to
play in football like you're going to get more time
as the seventh overall pick or the fifteenth overall pick.
But if you can play and you're the third rounder,
if you're the fifth rounder, as training camp goes and
as preseason goes, by September, you're already in the mix.

(37:34):
That's how fast it happens. And then we know how
many guys get injured, and all of a sudden, you
got three guys that are rookie starting. Well.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
The other thing is especially you know, I've heard this
for years too. Some guys it takes him a year
to get the playbook down, you know. I mean there
are not just a quarterback, but there have been. I
don't want to pick on players, but I mean I
have talked to executives in the league or coaches in
the league and they're like, you know, we really like him,

(38:01):
but we didn't. You know, they're coaching staff at some school,
whatever school is, you know, and tell us that you know,
he he can struggle, you know in you know, memorization
that he tends to, you know, be somebody that struggles
to kind of stay on the same page. You know,
he's a little bit of an ad lib And I

(38:24):
and I there's a receiver that I think of a
few years ago that a team drafted and everybody was like,
why isn't he playing? And it was just a matter
of the playbook. And so some guys come in and
you know, they just are ready to play. The other
thing is fit matters in the NFL. It really matters
a lot. And I think they're really good organizations. Have continuity.

(38:46):
How many years have Brett Vech Andanny Reid been together
or less? Sneed and Sean McVay or Shanahan and John Lynch.
Although Shanahan kind of runs the draft. I mean, he
has the ultimate say. But the truth is, when you're
when you're there are times Trent Bulky off in Jacksonville
and San Francisco. There are times the GM and the
head coach do not like each other, or you have
this constant change where you know, the GM didn't hire

(39:08):
the head coach, and you know there's a lot of
careers at stake and a lot of money at stake.
So continuity is really important because you know, you get
this hot shot Jaguars GM. I thought that was too
big of a swing for your first move. But he's
got some hubrists, he's got young, good looking kid confidence,

(39:29):
and you know, you think the coach has to say
in this stuff, but what if he is just sort
of a I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. Guy.
So I think continuity. Say what you want about the
Steelers they draft, well, well, it's been a lot of
the same people for a long long time, so they
all know what each other likes and they're not competing

(39:49):
against one another.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, I know the Jags, some of his his videos
go viral. You know the NFL, you know, this is
pretty close knit group. And I think you know some
of his comments. Listen, you make a trade, you make
a bold trade. No one has a problem. They can
agree or disagree. But the way he described Travis Hunter,
I mean, I had a text today from someone in
a war room that said, we on our trade chart.

(40:12):
They got absolutely fleeced on that trade. It wasn't even close.
And sometimes you pay a premium to move up to
get a quarterback, but when you pay a premium to
move up to get Travis Hunter, when you don't know
these guys are both brand new. I went on a
walk today and I called a couple people in the
league because I knew we were going to talk and
just make their brain. And I asked him, I said,

(40:32):
what's one thing that you really really struggle with? And
you spoke about the players struggling to learn, and he says,
I have a hard time with just dumb players because
I learned early on when I got to the NFL,
you can't crush a guy because he has like a
two point zero GPA. Well, if he's took Jason Kidd
like seven times to pass the SAT, he's one of
the smartest basketball players ever. This is football, basketball, baseball.

(40:55):
Your intelligence in the sport doesn't always translate to a
classroom I don't even are most classroom can be a
little overrated, like who cares how you score on a
standards test. But some people just you know, are a
little smarter than others, right, And he's a look at
the All Pros and the Pro Bowl guys and just
watch most of their interviews. Most guys. Obviously there are
some smarter than others, but aren't many dumb guys and

(41:16):
learning in the NFL when it comes to mental and
physical fatigue, the combination of that. This is not college.
You're playing seventeen games, you're doing a long preseason. It's
the meetings actually now in football, you know, in the
Jimmy Johnson, Bill Watsh, Bill Parcell's days, a lot of
time on the practice field, you could really out tough
a guy. You're not in pads that often anymore. It's

(41:37):
actually turned much more into a mental game. I've watched
way too many GM Press conferences the last three days,
but one thing how he talked about was like the
game has become such more of like a chess match
and open deal and speed. It's no longer you know,
Bill Romanowski meeting Lorenzo O'Neil in the hole. Like, not
that teams don't run the ball, but it's a spread game.

(41:58):
It's an offensive coordinator playing the defensive coordinator with this
chess pieces. So intelligence and the speed in which you play.
And that's why you get really tired because you're running
NonStop against all these guys and smarter guys also typically
like you can get in trouble off the field and
not be a bad guy. If you're kind of dumb,
you just make bad decisions right and you know, so

(42:21):
it's hard to balance. Some guys, you know, can overcome that.
Some guys never do. And you and I have talked
to enough coaches over the years, you know, guys getting
crushed in the media like why aren't you playing so
and so it's like he doesn't know what to do.
So if I throw him out there, my quarterback and
my center and my star tight end are gonna freak
out because this guy's gonna screw us up NonStop.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Well, I mean two stories. Tom Brady one of the
reasons the Patriots were absolutely dreadful on drafting wide receivers
because Tom didn't want to babysit kids into the league.
It didn't mean those kids were good players. But Tom
was hard, like Tom was not going to wait for
you to figure it out. So not that it's on Tom,

(43:03):
but a lot of receivers struggled with Tom. I don't
believe that the New England brain Trust just couldn't draft receivers.
Tom made it hard because he was very impatient, come
ready to play. The other thing is I asked Jimmy
Johnson once in the green room at Fox. I would
get there early and it pepper him with questions. And
Jimmy tommy more football than anybody I've ever met. And

(43:25):
I said, what's the most important thing? The number one quality?
And I was surprised by it, because you know, those
Miami programs were considered renegade. And he goes, oh, intelligence,
he goes, Colin, I think I'm a good coach. If
you don't take to my coaching, I'm just an average coach.
If you don't take to Andy Reid's coaching or Sean

(43:48):
mcvay's coaching, well then those are less successful coaches. You
have to get people that can you can insert stuff
and they can pick it up. I can remember when
Randy Moss came to the Patriots. Dude, it was one
practice and they were like, yeah, he knows the offense.
It's like Randy just knew the game of football. It

(44:10):
was funny. I remember people asking. I mean, I can
remember the interviews and it was just like, yeah, yeah,
he just kind of picked everything up. He didn't have
to tell Randy Moss anything twice, Like he just instinctually
knew what to do as a football player.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
You know, obviously this guy, you know, can be a
pain sometimes and you know, got some stuff going on
right now Tyreek Hill. But I remember talking to Andy
Reid years ago picking his brain on draft players or
you know, it was like a month before the draft
and we started talking about stuff like this, and he says,
people don't understand how smart Tyreek Hill is in terms
of offense. I tell him one thing, He's picked it
up for the rest of the year. So it's like,

(44:45):
why did they have so much success? Obviously he's got
special physical skills. They could do everything with them. Why
do some guys that are these great talents, like, why
aren't they using them more? He doesn't know what he's doing.
He's like a Randy Moss at Tyreek Hill. You tell
him one time in the middle of August. I pull
that out in November and a tie game in the
fourth quarter when it's freezing cold against the Ravens. Boom.
He's like, yeah, coach, no problem, run it, run it again.

(45:07):
He comes to me with ideas, and that separates these guys.
Most of the best players you look around at positions
I'd even say historically are football geniuses, from Ed Reid
to Ronnie Lott, any position right. Look look at Travis Kelsey,
Him and Patrick Mahomes make up routes on It's like,
why can't anyone cover Travis because they're not running place
He runs whatever you go the opposite way, and it's

(45:29):
it's from a football intellect standpoint. And he's a good example,
and this is why the draft is so hard. He
was a major red flag coming out of college. He's
even talked about it, and he's he matured as a human,
but in terms of his football IQ, like, you know,
it's why some of these guys are going to fail.
They can play, it's because they're not going to mature
or they're not going to be able to handle football.

(45:50):
And some of these guys, like the Ohio State crew,
of guys. I think it's a bunch of on defense,
bunch of higher character, tough, physical guys. But I think
a lot of people viewing their their physical attribute aren't elite.
You watch, I bet the group, the middle linebacker, the
couple pass rushers play in the league for like a decade, right,
because that's that stuff usually, Matt, Now, I don't know
how good of a players are going to be, but

(46:11):
they're going to be around for a while, guarantee it.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, I went. When I watched Cody Simon play for
Ohio State, it was amazing. He it was as if
he knew where it was going. You would watch teams
run motion and Cody Simon would just fill a gap,
move and the ball always came to him. That was
one of the players. He was one of my favorite
players in the draft. I think Ohio State has so

(46:34):
many good players. And to your point, these Ohio State guys.
Simon is such a character guy and Mecca at Buka
like a plus plus plus plus.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Characters where JTT that crew.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, just you know that's and so credit to Ohio
State and Ryan Day and because they've got they have
created a program with those guys come out and they're
ready to go, highly functional, very coachable.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
So on the first thirty eight pick, they had six
of them, and their two best players in the program
are still in the program in Downs and Jeremiah Smith.
It's like no wonder they won the national championship.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
So I don't know about best draft and draft grades.
I will I will say this, the Rams in Cleveland
both got a first round pick next year. That really helps. Okay,
So if you can get a first round pick and
get a bunch of good players, which the Rams in
Cleveland did, it's hard to argue that's not the best draft.
But I thought the Seahawks did really well. Gray Zebel,

(47:29):
the guard starter Nick is it a mount worry the hard.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
I just call him dB from South Carolina that the
NFL loves. They think dude he is. Everyone speaks highly
of this guy.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Major, major range starter, Arroyo Elijah Arroyle, probably a rotational
tight end and a starter very quickly. Jalen milroll I
was told today that Seattle will use him as a
rookie in six to eight plays per game. They're going
to use him. Want him on the field. You get
Sam Donald in the offseason, then Damian Martinez in the

(48:04):
seventh I mean, I look at the Seahawks drafts and
I was like, you've got three starters, the most athletic
backup quarterback in league history. You went and got Sam
Donald in free agency. I think that's an upgrade. Maybe
it's a small upgrade oer Gino Smith, and then you
get Damian Martinez, who will be your third back, but
because the Seahawks backs tend to get banged up, he
actually will play. I thought Seattle had a really really

(48:27):
good weekend. Is there any team that jumped out to
you everyone? I texted, Seattle's the first team they bring up.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Now. John Schneider is extremely highly thought of in that community.
Like people, they just like the guy, and they think
he's really really good at his job. You know, I
think a lot of people. I think the Raiders are
just trying to get the train back on the tracks.
And listen, I week in debate, did they taken the
running back too high? The second round guy? They took

(48:53):
the TCU wide receiver Beck, whose brother had died in
the New Orleans attack. He started at LSU, he transferred
to TCU. They're just getting like, you know, for a
while when they had Mayock and Gruden, and this carried
into Josh McDaniels like he had to coach these guys.
They were taking some crazy flyers on individuals that the

(49:14):
league was like, what are you doing? And part of
just being a solid team is just having some dependable players,
and I think for a long time they have just
you know, Al Davis kind of carried into the franchise
even though he was long gone. Obviously, get Gruden back,
who's basically his mentors Al Davis. I think you get
John spy Tech, who, like we talked about Jason Light
who I think we could say they're draft too, but

(49:36):
their draft every year. He's one of the best. John
spy Tech is to me, the next Jason Light. John
you know, less sneed like a scout. Scout, you know.
John Lynch is an example of a guy a different route.
How he's viewed more like this hybrid can do a
bunch of stuff. John spy Tech his background isn't scouting.
He understands players. I think, I think I don't know

(49:58):
how good their team's going to be, but I just
think going to be solid where they have had a
lot of holes because it's like, wait, you just drafted
Alex Leatherwood in the seventh seventeenth overall half the league
didn't have the guy on the draft board. What are
you doing? And I think those days you kind of
just get away from. And one thing I've come around
on genty again, I'm pro Genti the player. I just
think taking a running back really high is pretty risky

(50:20):
is I watched Pete Carroll talk about it. I was like,
you know, he's got a pretty good history of like
picking running backs because if you count USC as a
pro program, which it basically was, like, he kind of
knows what he's doing at that position. So I would
imagine it's gonna work, especially with Chip and his I mean,
Chip's a run first, ideally offensive coordinator. And you know,
Tampa is another example. I just think that that that

(50:42):
team has kind of set the bar. I mean, they're
gonna be better this year. I know they've won the
division a couple of years in a row, but they
had a lot of injuries last year and they barely
won that division. It wouldn't shock me if they win it.
I honestly I could see Carolina like being better than
some of these.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Did you see did you see the story Carolina got
Tea Mack, the receiver from Arizona. Did you see the
story that? And they didn't really go after a receiver
until the seventh round, but the Rams were interested in
moving up to get him. They were interested. So I
mean the Rams were not really in the receiver hunting ground, right,
they didn't. They got the guy from Pittsburgh in round seven.

(51:19):
The Rams were interested in te Mac Now. I had
heard that like Will Johnson, he had turned off some teams,
but he didn't turn off the Rams and he didn't
turn off Carolina. As you know, it takes one team.
I mean, the Giants really like Jackson Dart. My people
were very hit and miss on Jackson Dart mostly missed.
They didn't see him as a first round quarterback. Well

(51:41):
the Giants did, so it doesn't take that many people.
Everybody like that South Carolina safety. The Seahawks got like
everybody in the league like him exactly, everybody.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Like Malachi Starks. It's like universal praise.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yeah, So it's so I want to I want to
I want to circle back on this.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
So you don't think the Rams would have taken Jackson
Dark because I saw someone say that. That's why the
Giants traded up because they were afraid that the Rams,
and then obviously the Rams then backed up.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Well, the Rams, I asked Less over a text six
months ago. I sent a mock draft to him and
he said, it's probably less said, and I can say
it now. I guess probably not a great year to
need a quarterback in the first round, he said, plenty
of talented guys later. So once they gave up their
first round pick, I don't think they were going to

(52:28):
draft Jackson Dart. My intel is they weren't. They interviewed
him and he would have been able to sit for
two years. But Jackson Dart is a player. There's too
many similarities to Zach Wilson, including the same high school
and the same offense in high school. And I came
back and again, if the Giants like him, they like him.

(52:49):
So I'm not going to, you know, crush the job.
I wouldn't have done it. But if you like him,
you like him. And obviously the Giants didn't after that
interview were not into Shador, and then Jackson Dart was
the next most ready to play guy. When Lane Kiffin
is your coach and Lane gives you about twelve completions
a game just on scheme. Okay, now I need you

(53:11):
to hit six to seven on your own. And there
were games. I watched that Florida game when he crapped
the bed. It was the biggest game for Ole Miss
in a long time, and I think a lot of
people watch that game, and that was a tough environment.
So Jackson had too many games against big, big games.
And those are the games that you know before you

(53:32):
break down film. You're an NFL GM on a Saturday,
all misplays LSU or Bammer or Georgia. You're watching that
football game. There's twenty NFL guys on that field. Jackson
didn't play well in a lot of those games.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
You know. I also think it's important. You know, I
had heard Carolina felt very good about the Arizona wide receiver,
and I think when you add a couple of people,
tell me this, when you have a smaller quarterback, you know,
it's easy for Tom Brady or Peyton Manning it's six
five sixty six or that whole kind of era of
quarterbacks really tall to see everybody. I could have four
Julian Edelmans and I can just pepper him. It's harder

(54:04):
for Kyler Murray and Bryce Young to see those guys.
So who's Kyler Murray's number one target? It's not actually
the wide receiver, it's Trey McBride because it's easier from
my vantage point to see the head of a six
four to six five guy. So I think they really
valued his size for their young quarterback. That kind of
like gave the franchise hope that who knows what would
happen if he did not look good down the stretch.

(54:25):
We might have been talking about Carolina thinking about drafting
Jackson Dark so he changed the narrative on his career.
And yeah, I think the Rams, you know they took.
I watched McVeigh talk about ferguson the tight end they
took from Oregon or he really likes them, So I
think they were really desperate to get some on offensive
now that Cooper's gone to help Pook out with just

(54:46):
a high end offensive weapon, if they could ever get
the running back hold onto the ball, they'd have a
pretty dominant offense.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Well, they also they didn't draft a corner, and that's
an area of need that they went to another running back.
So does that tell you that Blake Koram's bust. They
got Blake in the third. They went and got another
running back. I know they've been frustrated with Kyron Williams fumbles,
but they drafted Blake Korm and did not play him
much last year. Now he got injured late. But my

(55:11):
takeaway not drafting a corner and then taking the Auburn
running back. So they got DeVante Williams, they went and
got a tight end, and they went and got a
running back. So it feels like to me, this draft
for the Rams was listen, we've been paying attention to
defense for two years. We got it. We're gonna We're
gonna let cornerback go for a year. Tight end, running

(55:34):
back Davante Adams. This is an offensive leaning draft, so
I think. But I thought that was interesting. They took
the Auburn running back who I watched play. He's got
some breakaway to him. But Blake Korum was a third
round pick. Why would you do that in a year
you absolutely need a corner.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
It could also be you know kier and Williams big
picture eventually, or are you gonna pay him? Are you
gonna pivot off him? You just you have options, you know,
running is a position where a lot of teams they
draft them basically every year. Yep, you just kind of
keep turning it in and out. This was a good
running back draft. I also think when you have I mean,
their defensive line is a chance to be really good.
If those two young guys take another step, good defensive

(56:13):
line will make average corners look pretty good because they
are pepper in the quarterback. So that's that makes it
a little easier to just we'll figure it out in
our defensive backfield with our defensive linemen becoming stars.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah, so I went and looked, and this is something
that to me is really interesting. I went and looked
at next year's mock first round draft. So there was
Arch Manning, Clemson's quarterback, Drew Aller, the Penn State quarterback,

(56:46):
Nuss Meyer the LSU quarterback. There were four quarterbacks in
the first round, and there will absolutely be two to
three that emerge over the course.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
South Carolina kids someone to keep an eye on. He's yep,
pretty interesting.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
So but it is interesting that I think the Browns,
by moving down and the Rams by moving down in
their first round, both told you we're going after quarterbacks
next year. That's what makes the Brown so fascinating because

(57:17):
to your theory and point was, I really believe you're
onto something that they signaled early we're going big game
hunting next year. I really do think you're probably right
that they drafted Dylan Gabriel overdrafted him because they didn't
want Jimmy Haslam to say, hey, remember because Haslam was

(57:38):
Johnny Manziel guy. Haslam flashy Johnny Manziel. Teams like New
England took him off the board. Haslam was a Deshaun
Watson guy. So I think, you know, Steve Bashatti of
the Ravens has real pull, even on draft day of
the Ravens, but he he's he's really smart. Cleveland's history,
as you pointed out with that owner, is they they

(58:03):
they showed you by trading down to the fifth pick
next year is the quarterback draft class. And I was
told that, by the way, by a friend of Andrew
Berry is they just did not like this class.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Well, and think about isn't Haslam a big Tennessee guy.
He's close friends with the Manning family in that circle.
When they made that move, it was probably an easy
sell for them because part of doing that job in
that organization is you got to sell it to the owner.
It's like next year we'll go after Arch, which I
don't know where you stand. I feel it's a little
I get it comes with the territory of that last name. Like,

(58:38):
let's see him play some real games. I know he
doesn't have the biggest arm. I think someone's already said
he's really more like his dad than his big you know,
his brothers. He does not play like Peyton Eli. I
hope he's good. He's easy to root for, but like
I watched his arm, it looked more like Shador Sanders
than it did Josh Allen. And I think he's already
being talked about like he's John Elway or something and

(58:59):
that kind. For instance, you see how many people getting drafted,
I would imagine the SEC are going to lead it. Again,
I haven't seen Texas schedule, but I would imagine it's
not easy. Let's it's who and who even knows. Maybe
he's there for a couple of years. He's only going
to be what a red shirt sophomore.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Let's end it with this. So I had said a
year ago Quinn yours was a first round pick, and
I kept being sold on Quinn Yours as a first
round pick, and I kept saying all the year, I
don't get it. I just I think he's Drew lock

(59:33):
Maybe I don't get it. So he got drafted in
like the seventh round.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
I like Drew lockmore.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Okay, yeah, so that is the classic. When Shadeur was dropping,
I was like, well, I mean, will Howard through for
a million yards and one of Natty He's not getting drafted.
I mean, Jalen Milroe is one of the great athletes ever.
He's not going first couple of rounds. And you know,
and I think Shdur is better than both of them
as I sit in the pocket throw the ball. But

(59:59):
it's just interesting to show you how things can change.
Quinn Ewers was a five star best high school Quoteraback
goes to Texas, beats out arch Manning a couple of years,
and my take was always when I watched him, is
He's got Texas's dominant O line and he still won't
throw the ball down the field like in the NFL.

(01:00:21):
He reminded me of a less town of Derek Carr.
I'm like, Derek, wind it up, go downfield, like he
was the classic checkdown guy with Texas protection. So that's
an example where when people all freak out about people
not being drafted. Remember two years ago, Sam Howe in season,
when the season started, people are like Sam how late,

(01:00:42):
first round. He went fifth round. So I think with quarterbacks,
he started digging into film. Maybe there's some intangible stuff
that makes you uneasy. I didn't want to overreact to
Shuder Sanders. I just I felt in the end when
his dad on Super Bowl Week was saying, you know,
we're going with our terms. He was talking directly to

(01:01:04):
the seven teams, most of them bad teams that needed
a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I think, you know, for quinn Ewers, I think when
the schedule comes out and all these teams get together
in training camp, there are probably, depending on the year,
six or seven games where basically every team is going
to be represented at and every GM, whether they're on
the road or at home, is going to watch on television.
And last year that was Oregon, Ohio State, that was

(01:01:30):
Georgia Texas, that was Georgia Alabama. It was a short
list of games. You don't unsee quinn Ewers against that
Georgia team. You just don't. And we didn't un see
it with Carson Beck either everyone's like I'm out on
Carson Beck and Jalen Milroe is a good example. People
don't forget that first half he had against Georgia where
he looked like I don't know the best player in
the country. Even if just like, okay, he played shit

(01:01:52):
against Vanderbilt, that's not ideal, But people aren't breaking down
the Vanderbilt tape. You're watching them against Georgia, you're watching
them against last year of Michigan, You're watching him against Texas,
like those are the games that matter to you, because
Vanderbilt doesn't have any NFL guys, And that's where I
think sometimes these conversations. Shador is a good example. When
I was talking to Buddy, I was like, I like

(01:02:13):
Schador just like everybody else. I like Travis Hunter Two.
Travis Hunters is not playing NFL people in the Big Twelve.
There aren't really NFL people in the Big Twelve. They
had thirty one players drafted total. For example, the SEC
had eighty, so I mean, and two of those were
obviously multiple were Colorado guys. So you have to balance it.
If Shador had done what he had done in the SEC,

(01:02:35):
you couldn't bypass the talent because you're like, you're throwing
these touchdowns. But the conference he's doing it against, I'm sorry,
fair or not, he doesn't get that much respect in
the conference. You get way more respects, like, well, Jayalen
Miller has been a multi year starter at Alabama. It's
just way harder to play in that conference. Quinn Ewrs
was just so bad Carson Beck. But they get a
lot of respect playing in that conference if you just

(01:02:57):
play well. But he played really bad and like you said,
you were, I mean, he made one of the biggest
throws of the year in that game against Arizona State
where it looked like they were gonna lose on like
fourth and ten or whatever. But I'd be like, it
was Arizona State, not Georgia. You know that's and fair
not you get judged by the competition. This is not
where in the NFL. Even if you're playing Jacksonville they
got a lot of good players, It's not like that

(01:03:19):
in college football, right, So it's the discrepancy in the
draft by the lists. I mean, twelve is not a
good conference column at all.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
This pro wise, Ashton Gent. Everybody in the NFL kept
telling me it's the Oregon game. If he doesn't play Oregon,
because he wasn't dominated against Penn State, If he doesn't
play Oregon, there's a lot more questions. Everybody went to
the Oregon game and went, well, shit, they got defensive
linemen that are pros, corners that are pros, and he

(01:03:50):
was great against Oregon that got him drafted.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
You hear a lot like the Bowling Green tight end
gets drafted or whoever. Some of these smaller school guys.
It's like, well, look at what they played Penn State
and when they played Michigan Khalil Mack who played at Buffalo,
he had three sacks against Ohio State. I think Taylor
Decker was their offensive tackle. So like, no one cares
about the other games in the MAC, right, I mean,
they judge your attributes and stuff. But yeah, like you said,

(01:04:14):
Ashton Genty ran all over the Washington States in San
Diego States, he ran for two bills against Oregon and
Dan Lanning. You hear all these coaches in these press conferences.
He's really highly thought of the way he runs his program,
how good his players are. So I think people struggle,
like not all things are equal, you know, Georgia. Oh,
look at Old Miss. Look how many guys Lane Kifvin

(01:04:35):
had drafted. You know that conference. This argument about the
SEC like it's it ended a long time ago. They
have the best players by a mile in honestly, it's
not even close. I mean, look at two of the
best players on Ohio State. They got downs from Alabama
and the running back from Ole Miss. So it's like,

(01:04:56):
what are we talking in? The Big Ten's clearly a
high level conference, but the ace CC with Florida State
down and Clemson not being what it was, it's kind
of falling off a cliff.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Yes, you know it used to be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
It used to be almost felt like three conferences. The
ACC was kind of right there with the the ACC.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
ACC games can.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Be a rough watch big time. If you add up Colin,
the ACC and the Big twelve forty two and thirty
one total drafted players, that's seventy three. That's only two
more total than the Big Ten, and that's six less
than the SEC. That's combining the other two Power four conferences.
That's a pretty big gap, yea, doubling it in terms

(01:05:33):
of pros

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
As Old was great stuff, buddy, see you Colin, the
volume

All Episodes

Colin Cowherd Podcast - Wolves Stun Lakers + Knicks Beat Pistons In Thriller, Shedeur’s Slide Was Self-Inflicted, It Was A “Starter” Draft...Not A “Star” Draft,

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Colin Cowherd

Jason McIntyre

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes