Daniel Cormier Show - Aljamain Sterling on Sean O'Malley, Jon Jones, Petr Yan fight, Mayweather story

In Episode 3 of The Daniel Cormier Show, DC's newest show where he talks to UFC and MMA fighters and athletes in the sports world, former UFC champion and one of the best fighter in the sport, Aljamain Sterling, joins the show! DC and Aljo GO IN ON the controversial Petr Yan fight and what happened from his perspective. Plus, Sterling reveals how the Sean O'Malley fight got put together. DC and Aljo also break down his back-and-forth with Lerone Murphy and why he should be fighting Alexander Volkanovski for the championship instead. Sterling also pulls back the curtain on his journey to the UFC and his difficult, abusive upbringing from his father. Plus, the guys get into Sterling's passion for MMA starting with his relationship with Jon Jones.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
What's up, guys, Welcome to the first episode of The
Daniel Cormier Show, brought to you by Total Wireless, the
official wireless provider of USC. They're in your corner with
unlimited five G data that will not slow you down.
Today I am joined by one of my favorite guys

(00:27):
in all the MMA, one of the best fighters to
ever compete in the bandamweight division, who is now still
one of the most important guys now fighting in the
featherweight division, as al Jamaine Sterling is ranked number five
in the world. This guy defended that championship against some
of the most dangerous guys in the entire UFC time
and time again. He went out there, he thought he won.

(00:49):
He's been misunderstood. He's had some ups, he's had some downs.
I want to allow you guys to get to know
Al Jermaine more than just what's on the surface. So
I want you guys to help me as I will
come in one of the greatest band of weeks, one
of the best fighters in the world, Al jam is earlier.
Aljael's up, brother, How you doing man?

Speaker 3 (01:05):
How you've been good? Man? Good? You're the man you
deserve flowers.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, so Algam thirty six years old now truly, how
how what does your day look like today opposed to
what it looked like ten years ago, because the goals
are the same, become the world champion, But at thirty
six you got to kind of approach it a little differently.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, I feel like it's still relatively the same, same
type of hustle, same type of mentality. Yeah, I'm a
lot older now. I've accomplished all the things that I've
wanted to accomplish. But then as you get older, you
check things off the box. You want to create new goals, right,
So that's pretty much the phase that I'm in in
my career, in my life right now.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
But it's also fighting and business, right You're you're venturing
into business, becoming a businessman, Like that is a whole
new element as you age, right, because you got to
start looking to what's next? How does that change the day?

Speaker 1 (02:04):
It's just busy man, Like. I have friends that tell
me they have no idea how I do what I
do realist because there's just so much like how do
you you have Some of the guys they say, do
you have like extra hours? In a day or something
that we don't know about, because podcasting, working on my
brand phone, Carver Rum, which I founded, obviously, training for

(02:25):
a fight, coaching some of the guys my training partners
that now live here in Vegas, so teaching or being
a training partner when I can, and of course having
a fiance. Then I'm about to be married too, so
it's a lot to juggle in. I've actually done some movies,
you know, so we actually hopefully have one that I'm
supposed to be in, like a boxing film. Hopefully that
all goes well. Yeah, So just busy man. I just

(02:48):
try to balance it as best as I can. Earlier mornings,
earlier mornings, I would say it's it's a little different
where before it was. Earlier mornings. I think now I
at least have a little bit of a luxury where
I can sleep in a little. But then there are
the days where I have to do business with the
East Coast or overseas in the Netherlands, where I have
to get up early or I have to stay up

(03:09):
late in order to get these conversations going. Like tomorrow,
I have to stay up until about twelve, which I'm
gonna be up anyway, But I'm working at twelve.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, you're not playing video games.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
It's very very different doty video games. I have time
to plays like chess, and I can only play five
minute round you like chess, I do.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
That's not a fun game.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's a very intuitive game, am I. Yeah, And I
think it reminds me of fighting so much, and I'm
just super competitive. Once I learned how to play during
COVID after watching Queen's Gambit, I just got hooked. I
tried the game, download the app, and then I had
to stop playing. I'm generally around like a thirteen hundred
el so that's like decent for a guy who plays

(03:48):
only occasionally. It's not studying person I have no idea
what that means. It's like you're rating, so when you
beat a player, you get like a couple of points
depending on the level of competition, how often you win
in in a row. It's fun, Aldre.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
That was one thing about you that I had no idea,
But like, what else could you tell fans and people that,
because honestly, the relationship that you have with the fans,
they don't get to see the end side in the details,
Like what's something about al Jamay and Sterling that people
may not know on the surface, like something you enjoy
outside of the chest and something you enjoy.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Doing in your in your free time.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
I mean, I watch a lot of TV shows when
I can, like my favorite thing to do, especially because
I need something to do with my fiance. It's hard
to do outdoor activities with her because it's I'm always
in a camp or I'm helping somebody, and then after
I'm coming back home from training, I'm like, Okay, today's
gonna be the day. We're gonna go out and do something.
As soon as I get home, I have my post

(04:46):
workout meal and then I just just kicks in bro
like it's sorry, and I'm like, hey, I'm sorry. I
need to take a nap before the next training session.
So the next easiest thing that we could do is
just find movies, find TV show series to watch. Right now,
we just finished The Last Kingdom, watching the movie of it,
The Last Kingdom, Seven Kings Must Die. I love the
Viking story. It's just kind of crazy how that whole

(05:09):
era was just people, yeah, just slaying each other.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Al Joe, I gotta ask you a question that Floyd
Mayweather story Is that real with your fiance?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Was that a real thing?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Because I even said that to my producer Luis, and
he goes, I've heard that story, Like was that a
real thing?

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Or has this story just taken on legs. That isn't true.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's a real situation that happened. It's just funny because
it's so long ago. I think it was, like it
was a long time ago, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. I
think it was.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
You were just starting.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
I was just starting. I was undefeated on my second
contract for the UFC, so I'm feeling good. I'm twelve
and zero. He sends it over. He's like pointing to
my fiance and her friend at the time or our friend.
I should say, they come over. He send somebody up.
She comes. She told me, just like Mayweather just pointing
to us and was telling us like waving us down,
Like so, what does that mean, like.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
To kick his ass?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
No, But then because you can't, Like that's the thing, right,
like you can beat Floyd Mayweather, even at.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
The time when you were a young fighter, because you
could just take him down and.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Throw him to the ground in an actual fight. Yes, yes,
but that's what happens out, but no, you can't all
box him.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
But in a fight, like that's what happens. Like, what
are you thinking of that moment, because it's kind of disrespectful.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
In the moment, I was kind of more of a young,
hot headed kid. So I'm thinking a couple of things.
I'm like, if shure, he goes down there, it's over,
it's science seals.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Were you long in a relationship or had you guys
just started dating?

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Now we've been in a long We were probably like
twenty sixteen. I was like five.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Five years you how long have you guys been together?

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Now?

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Twenty eleven?

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Jesus, that was gonna do.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
We have very dating before then, in like twenty ten,
but then we actually became like a thing, like an
official thing in twenty eleven. It was on her term
between know she wants to wait, like try with me.
You know, I'm playing the field, she frightly. I hate that. Yeah,
So going back to me, he sent somebody up. I
go over to them. I talked to him like, hey man,

(07:06):
I know how this goes. You're trying to tell me
to bring her down. Uh nah, I don't work like that.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
You went to him, I went they came up to
our section, because this.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Is when Wyman just won and I think he had
just beat veto Belford. So we're at the palm really,
so they go back, they come back again, and they're
trying to recruit both of us now and like he said,
you could come down too, I'm like, nah, nah, no,
like I seen this movie before we go down together.
She goes in. They try to stop me. It's gonna

(07:36):
be an issue because I ain't gonna be made to
look like no fool. Absolutely, I'm like, I don't care
how many of those guys in there. I'm just not
going out like a sucker, like it is what it is.
So I'm like, you could tell him? So then I think.
I don't know. If they came back a third time,
I forget this story. But I told them to tell
him he's undefeated in boxing, I'm undefeated in MMA, and

(07:56):
if he wants to figure out what sport is better,
we can find out today.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
And that was the nd it.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
I don't know if he actually went there and toil.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Because that's probably somebody that was in his circle.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Boys like yeah, I don't want those problems. But I'm
just saying he wants to find out.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, yeah, he can find out. I always kind of
wondered if that was a real story. You've been in
this thing for a while now. I thought UFC one seventy,
you major, UFC debut twenty twenty five, You're still in
the top five in the world.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
The motivations don't change.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
How do you stay motivated as you get to this point,
and what is the difference in the feeling right the
mindset in regards to training and competing, Because you're just
fresh off of a big victory over Brian Ortega, where
I thought you looked fantastic.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Thank you. I think that the motivation is definitely different,
and I think it just goes back to those goals
that you write, the new ones that you set for
yourself as you keep continuing to check them off the list.
In the beginning, I'm more hungry, I want more. I'm
a broke kid. I got my college degree, but I
put it on the back burner to try take a

(09:06):
leap of faith and see where this thing will go.
Thankfully it worked out. But at the time when I
was could have gotten a full time teaching position, I
would have made more money doing that the first probably
four or five years, if I had just did that
with increasing salary, benefits the pleasure of coaching kids, which

(09:27):
is my passion for wrestling. So this sport is so
I want people to understand, is this sport could take
and give you so much where you can find resentment,
and it's easy to get resentful when you're having those
tough conversations, losses and things like that, and it's easy
to get like just wrapped up in it and just
find negativity in every single thing. So for me, it's

(09:48):
just how do I look at this glass half full?
Like these are my bosses. They ain't going nowhere. I'm
probably going to be gone before they ever for sure
point where they're gonna be gone, So how do I
look at this and flip my perspective that they don'
I don't hate me, they just don't prefer my style.
And once you understand that, it makes it a little
bit easier to have the relationship and to do business
as best as you possibly can, make as much money

(10:10):
as you can, take advantage of the opportunities traveling the world,
being a guest fighter, meeting all these great fans from
all over the world. I used to travel the world
as a guest fighter, and then I will tell people
post on Twitter, comes spar with me, come yead me,
and I would just have random guys coming into the hotels.
This was before they got really strict with.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
Letting in people fans.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
China didn't do none of that.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
They let people just kind of come in.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
They were just in the lobby. I'm like, this is so.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Well, it's just a throwback. It's a throwback.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
I remember one time when I was younger and I
was in Strike Force at the time, and they used
to do those UFC exposes. So they had an expoe
in Houston, Texas, and I was there and they were fighting.
It was Gray Manard fighting Frankie Edgar brought. The lobby
of the hotel was crazy. It was a party the
entire time.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
How do you allow that?

Speaker 3 (10:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
I just think that the UFC at that time was
a different organization. I think today it's a machine. It's
grown so big that it's it's a machine.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I think the risk versus a reward with that because
there's a lot of potential for altercations to possibly happen,
especially when people are talking shit. Yeah, like you just
don't know, and that's that was always my thing, especially
like with the Yon fight and the after them after that,
not knowing which fans actually were genuine coming up to me. Yeah,
someone might actually try to do something stupid, where now
I'm putting myself in a position where I have to

(11:27):
tell you.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, well it's hard. It's hard, right, it's hard not
to be the fighter. We'll talk about that a little
bit later. Yeah, in the conversation, I want to get
into that a little more in depth.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
But just with that motivation, I think the main thing
for me is just understanding how the game works, yep,
and then taking more from the game than the game
takes from me. Absolutely, and I think that's where I
find peace and I could find motivation in once, because
before I got to a point, I was like, yeah,
this is just stupid, man, I'm not to just go
back and be a teacher. But they like, but what
am I giving up? I'm giving up an opportunity as

(11:58):
someone would fight for free for which I hate that
fighters say that, but they would. They would do it
just to have an opportunity to switch spots with me. Yeah,
you know, so I take advantage and I keep myself
grounded and remind myself to be grateful of the opportunity
that I have, that I have a skill set to
do this, and to be doing this as long as
I have been, and to be ranked in the top
five and top ten as long as I have been.

(12:19):
There's not many guys who can say that they did
that for this long.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Absolutely, And you won that big fight over Brian or Tega,
and so the conversation starts.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
About could I fight for the belt? Could I do this?
Could I do this?

Speaker 2 (12:31):
And then Diego Lopez looks like he looked at no
cha UFC. And so I'm floating the internet and people
start throwing in ideas of what they want next. I
see al Jamaine Sterle in Diego Lopez, do you feel
like that's a fight that would interest you? And if so,
like if not, why, like why do you think that

(12:52):
that win justifies you fighting for the belt right now?

Speaker 1 (12:57):
I've never turned down any fight that the UC has ever.
Often that's the one thing the fans could say you
faked and did all this other stuff. It's one thing
you can never say is that I turned down a
fight I take. I take on the toughest fights. The
ones that I'm set up to losing because it's just
better for business and generally I have always one. Uh So,
with that said, Diego Lopez is nothing special in the

(13:20):
sense of I'm not gonna there's nothing new that he's
doing that happens before with all the what twenty three
fights in the UFC that I've had to date. Yeah,
it's not a fight I'm interested in. I'm interested in
the belt. But if that to fight another one and
that's the opponent, then saddle up.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
But there's there's like a everybody's angry right now. Loren's mad.
Loren's mad, Bro, why you're so tight?

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Loren's mad that you're actually even putting yourself in the conversation.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
I'm I'm mad that he's trying to take me out
of the conversation.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
It's laughable.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Really, you You've got like two finishes in the UFC,
maybe three.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
But he's only one. I don't want to play Devil's
Adas with algia. He's only one.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
He's only one.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
He just wins, and he wins when.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
She fights maybe nine in the UFC.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
But then that I have twice as many fights as
I understand, I'd beat a guy who fought for the
belt twice. I understand I'd be more ranked opponents than
he has. I understand fought an undefeated fight, and arguably
one on a different night where two other guys Rob
Don versus Vokov yep and the other one was Randy
Brown versus Brian Battle yep.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
On another night, I probably win that fight. So just
laying out the lay of the land for him to
try to discredit me as a potential challenger for the title,
it's it's kind of he.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Doesn't want your name in the conversation at all. Do
you think that's because he feels maybe it's because he
thinks that you deserve it exactly.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Do you think no? Or maybe.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
When a guy like al Jamain and Sterling starts to
get into the conversation, now it's a problem because because
he's got name value, he's been a champion, and for
all those other reasons that you said. Right, I've just
asked you about fighting Diego Lopez.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
He said, Okay, sure, if I have to, that's what
I'll do.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
But you're like, because I know he's not getting the
title shot next Diego Lopez, he just for the title.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, No, Diego Lopez is not fighting for the title.
But if you need it to fight a fight, they
may say you need to fight Diego Lopez and you go, sure,
I've never turned one down. Loron is sitting there going
I get it. He's got more fights than me, He's
been the champ. There are a lot of reasons why
when looking at potential opponents for the champion, they go, well,

(15:31):
Al Jamayin and Sterling does fit what we need.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
For Volkanovski and folks say he's down with the money.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
And that's even worse because for Loron, Volcanoski is all
in on him after he knocked out Aaron Pico and
then he says, I'm okay if Al Jamain gets it,
So you got to be able to understand where Loron's
coming from a little bit.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Please would then beat the ranked fighter.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
He just beat Aaron Pico. They put him in, They
put him in, They put him in the hardest fight
possible for him.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
How how Aaron p was a beast does on short notice.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
I am not discrediting Aaron Pico, but he has lost
multiple times, and he has lost multiple times, this saying
the same way, I hear you and then you come over.
Never winning a belt in another major championship organization, understand,
and getting a win and a finish in the first
time in years for Laurel Murphy. And then you're thinking
that grants you the tire shot. And don't get me wrong,
it was a spectacular whole main event pay per view.

(16:24):
It was a big opportunity, and he stepped up, and
I applaud him for that. He stepped up for the
UFC most I got injured. But if you're gonna compare
resumes and say I'm not saying I deserve it over him,
but I say I have a pretty damn good argument
that I should possibly be nuts.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Because he is mad that you're even saying I deserve and.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Also me in vocal at the same age, Man, let
the uncle's fight, right, Yeah, Let big uncles fight.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
So, al Jael, when you look when you look.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Bad, I understand, I'm cloud man, joking around.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I understand, have a good time.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
But you're gonna get Lauren, and Lauren will be all
mad that you playing with him.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Hey, al Jael, when you when you were training with
Ray Longo and those guys, you.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Know, never for the black guy.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
You've never fought a black guy, tell you something day
strong too.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
They a little strong.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
I used to wrestle black people. I hate it if
I rush black. I was like, yo, I'm trying to
throw them and do some of the things that work.
It don't work on them. That's not that bad, al Joe,
that's bad. Al Joe.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
I was like, I don't really fight them, but I'm like, yo, I.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Don't mind fighting the brother, but I'm like, yo, a
lot of stuff that work normally, it just don't work.
They got the brothers be having different types of hips,
different types of explosions, and everything's strong too. I could
only imagine fighting Francis. Could you imagine france Is how
strong he would be?

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Not at all?

Speaker 3 (17:41):
That would actually be so crazy.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
It for me, that's kind of crazy that you've been
here as long as you have and you haven't fought
a brother before.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
In the UFC or in the regional circuit.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
That's going to be you and LAURYL Murphy at some point.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
I know, it's kind of crazy. I'm like, I'm gonna
fight my first Brother's going to be underfeet.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
For the championship at whole you know, maybe for the
championship if one of you guys fighting.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Was so I figured I had to kind of throw
that out there. But yeah, for some reason, we just strong.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Shit.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, I don't know what's going on with that, and
I'm kind of light skinned this, so I'm not even
strong as y'all dark skinned brothers. All right, guys, we're
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call one eight hundred gambler al jam. Was there ever
a time when you were training the beginning of your
career where you can point back and go, I think
I might be the best in the world. I'm very
close to it, like in training in a fight where

(19:57):
you go, I think I may just the best in
the world, like or I'm ready to fight the best
in the world, because you know, you know in your career,
I'm pretty good at this, but I don't know if
I can beat that guy yet, but I feel in
time I will be able to can you point to
a time where you went, now, I'm ready, I'm complete.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
I would say the first feeling of that where I
could like us, give myself a self nod and like
you're him was after I fought Paedo Munos in twenty
nineteen and in Chicago, and it was an all stand
up fight. I had torn the ligamin in my wrists,
so I got two scars here from the surgery. It

(20:41):
took out the ten in from the as it all up.
So from twenty fifteen I tore it. And my grappling
has substantially gotten weaker over the years, where I would
shoot and guys would just pull the leg back and
I couldn't grip. I went from doing farmer carriage of
one hundred and twenty pound dumbells one hundred pound dumbells
easy to this was like forty come on, so serious.
So when I fought him, that's one of the lowest

(21:02):
has ever been. And I got to a point where
I was super nervous because like, dude, I'm not gonna
be able to wrestle with this guy, and I know
he's gonna be looking for a guie team. And I
was forced to stand up in trade, and when I
was able to outstrike a guy like that who just
knocked out Cody Garberer, that gave me a confidence to know, like,
he's a gamer, he's a heavy pressure fighter, he doesn't
quit solid jiu jitsu. He's also been a perennial top contender,

(21:26):
top ten, top five, and at the time he was
running top five. So yeah, so that was like the
first glimpse of that. I was like, dude, I have
the whole package. I can strike, I can grapple. Obviously
wrestling is my expertise in jiu jitsu. And then when
I fought Corey Sanahagen, that solidified it and I just
knew it was like I had to fight three top

(21:46):
five guys in order to get a crack at the belt,
and I beat all of them. The last one was
icing on the cake and I finished Cory Sanagen like
eighty eight seconds.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
I remember that.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, And after that was like that's when we knew.
At the broadcast table, like.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Uh, you and row I remember listening to that and
then you were kind of like saying like this is
they want the new shiny thing. And then Rogan was
kind of like, well, we didn't know. We didn't like
I've been right here the whole time.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Sometimes is the person that you don't expect that shows
up Al Jamayne. You win that fight, then we get
to the Poorian fight right. Well, But but it was
to me when I look back on it, I think
back to it was a nervous al Jamain sterling inside

(22:32):
the octagon that night, fighting really outside of himself. But
you won the belt in such a strange way right
after that illegal knee. I want to know what the
moment for you was like in real time, right because
we're in the APEX super quiet.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
It's quiet.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
You can hear us at the commentary table talking, or
could you could you so here on us our car?
Were you out of it to the point that you're
like operating in like almost a concussed state like I was.
I always wondered, like, what were you thinking in there?
Because it's like, I can get up and fight this dude, right,
but I'm gonna be severely compromised and I may lose

(23:18):
this fight. Maybe the next shot knocks me out. Were
you aware that if you weren't able to continue, that
the fight was going to be over and you would
win the belt? No, you thought it was mading no
contest or something.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
I didn't know what it was going to be because
I think we were like over three rounds or something
like that, So I didn't hear you guys when you
guys were talking. When I go you, Finn, hears no
because it was you guys are like whispering. But at
that point that's I get punded in the head with
the knee. I'm just trying to think, like how and
what the fuck was this guy thinking to even do
something stupid?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, and I'm.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Sitting there on one knee waiting to get up because
he had his hands on my head. So one I
can't see him looking at the ground, I can't see him,
but strategically I know I can't get neat here. Yeah,
so you call a stole in the fight, I called
a fight at Q. I'm dead tired.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, you looked exhausted, barely was.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I was exhausted from the first round and that's because
the rehydration was just off terrible. And when I went
through the day with the PI team, they explained it
to me, it's like you didn't put nowhere near as
much refuel in your body as you should have. I
was like, I'm telling you from the whole day in
the normally take a night before the fight. I had
about five hours and I could not sleep, and the

(24:29):
performance showed. But I didn't hear anything what you guys
are talking. I'm just trying to collect my thoughts, gather myself,
and I'm thinking, get up and fight, get up and fight.
And then when Mark came over, he said you got
five minutes. I was like, that's when I went and
just laid back down. And I understand that the way
it looks, people are like, oh, you were selling it,
you were acting, because after you told me, I sat

(24:49):
up and then I kind of do one of these things,
and I'm like, oh, I can see why the fans
are mad, like, oh, this guy's acting blah blah blah.
But it wasn't anything like that. Just trying to lay down,
relax and hopefully stay in the fight because no fighter
wants to quit. But I'm glad Mark Smith called it
because he saved me for myself.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
You would have got to be fault.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
I would have got up and fault, but then it
would have been yeah, one shot could have probably put
me out, and then it'd have been all for for.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
What, just to show that you're talking.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, for you.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
People to pat me on my back. I'm like, you
don't care about my bank account? Yeah, like in hindsight,
it worked out for my bank account. Yeah. Peodi to
this day says I owe because he changed my life.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
She did, but it really did though, it really did
change everything.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
But it's funny. He's like, I changed his brother life.
You owe me.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Is a killer man, but he he he made a
really bad mistake in the sight that night, and he
really is.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
What do you think the toughest part of dealing with
that was?

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Was it the backlash from the fans when like the pundits,
like everybody criticized you from from from.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
I bet there was.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Very few places in this world where you could go
in the escape it. So you're holding this new belt,
but you can't really celebrate it because everybody's on your
neck about what you did or how it looked.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah. So I got to a point where I was like, well,
I'm just gonna play the heel because clearly what I
said doesn't matter. Peodian posted a picture and said he
was acting, and everyone took that as godspeling ran with it,
and this is the guy who was just in the
bathroom throwing up, who has about thirty people at his
house that flew in from New York for their homeboy

(26:30):
to go fight for a world title. Yeah, the fight
goes the way it goes. I still have all these
people in my house. What I'm gonna do my tail
and go to my room and say, guys go home. Yeah,
so that everyone came in. When I got home back
from the hospital, everyone tried to cheer me up. And
the funniest part is like, oh, Dana said you had
a catskin and there was nothing wrong with you. I'm like,
cat scans don't detect concussions. I think you actually know
how concussions work. Bro with da said get back and

(26:55):
hang out with everybody, And one of my best friends
he's like he's gonna be at the wedding too, And
he comes over and he's like, yeah, bro, he gave
me the bell. He's like, yo, I don't care what happened,
bumped that you're a UC champion. I need you to
say it, and just kept coming over. I was like, joh,
I don't want to even say that right now, but
kept saying when, don't leave me alone. Till I said it,
and I was like, I'm a USC champion. I'm a
UC champion. And then we everyone kind of came in.

(27:16):
Maroba loves to do his toast.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
Oh my god, an hour of toast, so.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
He brings everybody in. We do a toast. They asked
me to say something, and then I just had a
little glass of champagne. We did a toast. I take
a little small sip and then I put it down
that my head is certain, I'm just throwing up.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
I'm just like, I just caud that's a bad one
if you're throwing up.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah. So I mean it wasn't like profusely or anything
like that, but I did for sure throw up. And
then I'm like, normally I would drink after a fight,
but after that, I was just like, dude, my head
has killed me. There's no way I can party right now.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Did you regret it? Did you regret taking that photo?

Speaker 1 (27:53):
I don't regret taking a photo because again I'm with friends,
friends and family and people I went to school. It
since middle school, high school, college. Like, how am I
to deny these people who spend all their hard money
to come all the way here to come spend the
time drink with them. Yeah, you know, so that's the
least I could do, you know I yeah, of course

(28:14):
they know shitty. But on highsight, they brought it back
up to me. They go, you guys are gonna do
an automatic rematch, and I go, oh shit, I'm gonna
get a paybamp.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
You get a pay bump, you get the pay per view.
There was a lot of different things to that.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
So for me, I'm like, well, glass half full. I'm like, well,
how do I turn a shitty situation to a positive one?
So outside of that, that was like the only way
I can look at it in a positive lay, like
I get a chance to redeem myself. But then I
had to get the next surgery right after. Yeah, because
the knee and all the slams he hit me with,
just because of how notice he tried to do that
in the second fight. Who has ever swept my feet

(28:50):
and had to fell over? And then people were saying
you were just terrible. Then now you made so much
great adjustments. I'm like, guys, I literally had no energy.
If you ever cut weight, that's what it felt like
trying to fight someone who was at full strength on
your cutting weight.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Why do you try to explain that to people, because
they're like.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
What I don't like is they go, you are so
much more improved than second fight. I'm like, I can't
do anything different other than I was just myself felt
good like I have in every other fight, and whenever
I feel good, give me time to prepare, and I
fucking I smashed.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, I don't know going into that second fight did
that feel you like? Did that feel you did? The
idea that you could get things right and go right
back and prove that it wasn't me, But you could
take that that negative because even Ryan Clark and I
sat up there on the ESPN and we talked about, oh,

(29:42):
I'll do this, and I was trying not to do
it because I understand, but like Ryan, you know, he's
a football guy and he's like loves MMA, but he's like, well,
that was this, That was that right? He had the
he had the he had the opinion of the general
sports fan. Yes, the general's the wards.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Fan is who we want to draw in to mix
martial arts.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
And when they saw that, when in the middle of
a pandemic, not many people had many other things to watch,
but then to go back and do it. Did that
fuel you those people that were on your neck? Did
it fuel you to go out and fight better?

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Definitely fuel for the fire. And just imagine anything I posted,
any friend or family member that posted me and I
reposted shirt to like my story or whatever, they would
just be in the dms either dropping the mbomb, calling monkeys.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Really or so he got racists.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah. And also just clown emojis NonStop. So I had
a year and a half or just straight clown emojis
on my page. And then after I won.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
It isn't that ugly though, Like, isn't that ugly? But
isn't that ugly that you got called those negative things
just racism because of a fight, because of the result
of a fight, and you weren't the one that actually
did the illegal blow.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, it's fascinating. It's this people man in society. This
is why for athletes you have to have thick skin.
And I had many people and a lot of consults
turning to tell me like, uh, stay out for social media,
and I was like, no, I'm not gonna let nobody
bully me. I let the fans bully me, ain't gonna
let my family bully me into making me do something

(31:22):
I don't want to do what I'm supposed to do.
I'm a man. I'm not gonna sit there and tuck
my tail and hide from something that I'm not proud of.
But I get a chance to write the ship, and
sure enough I that to write the shit. You know?

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Can I tell you something what's funny?

Speaker 1 (31:34):
What gets me during this whole period? Two and me
explaining the situation of what I felt to my coaches
because I called for Pedian before, of course sin Hagen. Yeah,
it was between san Jagen, mall of Maris Piotian. Shelby
asked me who I want to fight. He said, I said,
give me Peodeon. That's the easiest fight out of the three.
And this is in twenty twenty, and I think he

(31:56):
thought I was crazy. It was like, nobody wants to
fight this guy.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Well he was killed.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
I want to fight this guy because I just didn't
think he was as good as people were saying, like
he's a great striker. I'm gonna sho him what Grapham
could look like. And then I get the chance, and
you see how I did. Corey steps to the cage.
He starts defending bullying, him off the cage, lock in,
climb his back, push off the cage. He can't stop
anything I'm doing. I said, if I were to have

(32:22):
been fully hydrated the way, refueled, ate the proper way.
And it sounds stupid to say because people don't understand
what it is to cut weight, So it's kind of like,
are you saying you should have ate more? I'm like, yes,
you have to starve me yourself, cutting down from one
hundred and seventy pounds down to one hundred and thirty
five pounds and then not refilling your body. Yeah, I
think that makes a big difference. But I also said,
in the first fight, if I had felt the way

(32:43):
I should have felt, I think I would have finished
him in the first round.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Now, when you look back on that part of your career,
right as we move forward, did it change your relationship
with fans and with the people that cover the sport?

Speaker 1 (32:56):
How could it not?

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Oh but even with that, even me explaining that, what
I wanted to really say was I had my coaches
even asking me, am I sure that's all it was?

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Bro? That must have hurt well multiple times? That must
have hurt it hurt me here because I was like,
why would I ever lie to you? You don't think
I want to win? If I was lying to you,
then how do I get better? How do we get better?
For us to prove that we were the better guy?
And that was just the wrong night. And I remember
one time I kind of snapped at the gym.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
I was saying that you have those conversations with them.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, multiple times? What was wrong? You know, you went
to Vegas and after you left here, you were in
great shit that you went to Vegas and like you
think I went to Vegas and this party like that?
When have you ever known me to do it? So
there was some things that rubbed me the wrong way.
But then at one time I snapped a little bit
and kind of tell them, like, guys, stop fucking saying
this stupid narrative. I've done told you how many times

(33:51):
what happened, and I guarantee you the second fight won't
look like that. But I just had to get it
that with Chest.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
But you keep those guys close to you too, still
even longer than those guys, they still they played such
a massive party of her. The main one kind of like,
believe me, he's a real he's a real guy, and
he'll always ask the question.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, but I'm like, how many times you're gonna ask
the same question, like I only so many times before
it gets annoying. Yeah, but yeah, definitely, my my relationship
with the fans that I would say for sure I
has changed because it's like, how can you flip on
somebody overnight like that and be so dark and ugly,
like to throw out racial slurs, attacking my family pictures

(34:31):
with my mom my sisters. Uh, there's only so much
that you could take and just try to have grace
and want to be peaceful with everybody because not everyone
is a true, genuine fan.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
No, you know, not everybody's true.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
So that was that was with that, But I just
I just learned to not get as friendly as I
used to be. And my fiance sometimes she tells me, like,
why are you coming off so so mean, so cold?
I'm like, I'm not coming off cold. Like I gave
you one of the picture. I gave him a picture.
It's like I'm not gonna sit there.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
And give him my energy and my time like I
would have before.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yes, like before I would take a time and have
a full conversation even though I need to go to
this place. But it's like, why am I doing that
for someone that can literally just do this and say
I'm nothing to them.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Any Yeah, you become the champ, defend the belt multiple times,
you fight Sean O'Malley.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Whenever you really don't want to fight Sean O'Malley, you can, I.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Say, I hate talking about this guy.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I understand because people keep saying that he's living in
my head. No, no, but it's not about Red Free. So
it's not even about the fight, right, you fight the
fight you and I have poken off the record. It's
not a fight that you necessarily wanted to do. You
did it at the time, at the time timing, at
the timing meaning that there was a month or two

(35:49):
after fighting Henry Sahudo two months three? Yeah, how did
you get how did you? How long did the bad blood?
Are the bad emotions harbor?

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Right?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Because I would have felt almost betrayed by the organization, like, man,
I didn't want to do this and then that happens,
Like did you have like real bad feelings about the
situation towards the organization?

Speaker 3 (36:12):
And how long they did?

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Did they last? If you did.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
I don't say it was bad feelings. I feel like
I was more disappointed in myself for the for caving. Yeah,
because I had said no from the very beginning. I
said no again, said no five times esus, and I
got to a point where I felt like my manager

(36:38):
was almost like working for them, because he after I
would tell him no, he was It was almost like
he was trying to convince me why it was a
good idea. Even after I told him. I was like, dude,
I could barely walk because my legs. I just thought
I had a demo on my legs. You could put
a whole handprint in.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
My shin in you're skinny.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
That shouldn't happen from just kicking with Henry.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
So I had a whole month off that couldn't actually train.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
I rolled the dice.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Because I eventually cave, I roll the dice and it
just didn't work out all that weight I had to
cut again. It was like, dude, I told you guys,
I just need a little bit more time to actually
mentally be there and to physically be ready to go.
And then the counter is well he bro he popped
the rib and training. I'm like dude, but that happened
in training. He didn't fight for twelve almost twelve months.
He literally said on the sideline and got gifted of

(37:23):
golden opportunity at an opportunist time. And I don't fault
him for taking it. He was giving that opportunity through
the UFC. I wasn't given that favoritism. So it's hard
not to be upset about it. But again I still
look back at myself and go, well, I rolled the dice,
I came up short. And then that's when I kind
of went on vacation with my fiance. We took like
a month, and now I.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Saw that you guys were going crazy.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
That was living my most best life.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
And when you got back, were you able to go like,
all right, it is what it is, this is what
they wanted.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
I did it. I caved, even though I shouldn't have.
I got to just move forward.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, I mean, that's all you can do. I'm not gonna,
They're not gonna. I asked for an order matter a
rematch class. They said no, and so I was kind
of like reading the writing on the on the wall.
I was kind of like, I'm being set up to fail,
and I know it, which is why I'm saying no,
And the fact that I eventually came in, I was just.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Like, that's a hard thing to do, going there and
knowing that, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Like just being in the octagon when you don't want
to be in theres, you can't. And I saw the fight.
I sold it as best as I could, because the
part of it was like, well, people think that you're
not fighting. You're saying that you're not fighting in the media,
but then you're telling us you are. I'm like, yeah,
because I told you guys that I don't want to
do this. I don't know what my what this guy
has told you that I don't want to fight. I

(38:41):
said I don't want to fight.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
So it's a it's it's a very it depends on
what side of the defense. Like, yeah, I take fall
for accepting the fight. Yeah, and the worst version of
myself showed up throwing this ugly ass cross. I couldn't
get a takedown and this is my timing was off.
I felt slow, and I was just like, yeah, this
a way. You don't take fights where you don't want
to be in there. You see this happen to a

(39:03):
lot of guys. It's just it's just a bad place
to be.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, you got to know that you want to be
inside the octagon if you sign up for the fight,
they'd say, it's a real problem.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
See Timas told me the same thing too, because you
kind of compared it to like Woolly, And it was
like I told one of the same things, like if
you don't want to take if you don't want to
be in there to fight, don't, don't do it. And
I told him, I was like, I'm gonna try to
psych myself up and yeah, in space, but I thought
I was doing it. And then when I got in
the cage, everything felt like super dreamy and it was like.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
I qualification, Ah, well you had you got to do that.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
But before all this, like before all of this, you
are a longtime athlete right wrestling Uniondale High School. Who
do you think was the first person as an athlete
that really bought into you? Do you remember who was
the first person that bought into you as an athlete
and said, wow, I got this full support and they believe,

(40:00):
didn't you?

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I would say Dave Mattana. He's the one that took
me to like all my off season rustling tournaments, pay
for my food. He would He was probably like twenty
twenty thirty minutes away from me, and he would drive
in the morning come pick me up for those six ams.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
So he was driving thirty minutes to get you, to
drive you all the way back.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
And drive you to the tournaments.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
And then, well, what do you think, what do you
think made him?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
What do you think it made him make that investment
in you like that?

Speaker 1 (40:24):
I couldnt I couldn't put on my finger. I've even
I've asked him to this day and I don't. I
couldn't remember exactly what he said, but it was just
kind of like he just felt something that was just
like I could do something, and you know, thankfully I
just had that opportunity. And that's why I do so
much with the coaching, helping the training partners. I'm flying
out a week before my fight to go help corner

(40:46):
guys and then fly back to Boom my fight to
finish cutting weight. So I feel like I've done a
fair share of helping everybody and paying forward, and that's
why I continue to do so because of a guy
like that. Yeah me from a hole in the wall,
Russell the son.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Did you did you? How'd you meet? Did you go
into a practices.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
So the son in the finals national the sectional qualifier
to go to sections, which qualifies you for state. So
I beat him in the qualifying tournament.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
So a man whose son you beat then takes an
interest in you to help you.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
And I meet and his son became good friends. We
both wrestled through in college, trained together some time from
time to time when we came home doing like a
Christmas Thanksgiving, and we're still friends. He's actually coming to
the wedding, him and his son. So it's is.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
This crazy like life?

Speaker 1 (41:33):
You just don't know what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
No, you don't.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
At what point did you realize that wrestling was more
than going to be just a time consumer and a hobby.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
After my first profight.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
I won, But it wasn't a hobby whenever you were
in high school. No, but you still didn't know that
it was going to be something that changed your life.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
I knew it would get me to college. Yeah, almost
got me a ride, but I just didn't pass the
NCAA clearing house to my grow they don't have anymore. Yeah,
my grades were awful. I wish because I would have
loved to have gone d one, but I didn't have
the money to pay for it. You got parents that
are street pharmacists, you know. It was like, well my
dad really, you know, supplying the streets.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
No, I know what you're talking about. So you ain't
gotta tell me I'm from the ghetto. Broh.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
So it's just that.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
And didn't have the grades to get in, so I
was forced to go upstate New York. That's where I
actually went to Morrisville. That's where I actually met John Jones,
and then I transferred from there and then he was
training in high school.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
You in college?

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, so freshman year I went to Morrisville s John
was in high school. John was in college where just
a national IOWA was Central, but he ready transferred to
Sunny Morrisville and he wrestled there. He was supposed to
against You had that one year you had to sit
out kind of a thing. Yes, yes, so we were
JUCO but uh, he came over. That's where I first

(43:02):
met him. He was like teaching me some stuff, kind
of like almost like mentoring me at the time because
I wasn't really good. He was really good. Like I
didn't know who he was. People were telling me about him.
I'm like, I don't I know wrestling, but.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
He got recruited everywhere out of college.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Uh so then they were telling me he's a Jugo
national champan, and so why the hell is he here
at this school. Yeah, and then I transferred Sudimore Courtland
and he's trying. I see that he's fighting, doing jiu
jitsu stuff on his MySpace. I reach out to him
and he invites me to come down to the gym.
I asked for the address, and it's five minutes from
my college campus. And I'm very thankful for that opportunity,

(43:41):
because me going and get an opportunity to try just
kind of gave me an opportunity to see if this
was something I want to do, and I gave it
a shot and it just happened to work out.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
You said that Uniondale shaped you your city a lot
of gain violence, not the ideal situation. You had a
lot of siblings and half siblings. Seven siblings, twenty twenty siblings.
Seven siblings like your actual full blood siblings were seven,

(44:14):
and you had thirteen half siblings. How in the world
did that work?

Speaker 1 (44:20):
It was chaotic, man.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
How many were living in the house.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
I think at the point at one time in terms
of I think the kids at most was eleven or twelve.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Eleven kids living in the house.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
So does your mom have kids before your father or
does your father have kids?

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, she has two before my dad, so she has
ten kids told, but she has eight for my dad.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Wow, holding myself, and your dad has ten kids he
has the other yeah jesus.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
But then the side that are from my mom's side,
they're not through my dad. So they're also my siblings,
but not through my dad's side.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Wait, no, I'm confused. Of course they're not, otherwise you'd
be cousins.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
No, no, no, So what I'm saying is the other
kids that my mom has, the other two they're from
two different guys. Oh hell, hell hell, they have no
they have no affiliation with my dad. So my dad's
just kids, and then my mom's just kids, and then
my dad and my mom's kids.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I get it. I understand. Plus twenty kids, I understand.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
So my father had two kids after my mom, my
mom had two kids after my dad. So yes, I
get it. We were five we're seven total, not twenty.
How many were living in the.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
House, like I think eleven or twelve at a time,
twelve kids, I think I know eleven.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
What kind of house are you.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Guys living it?

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Uh? My dad was a street pharmacist. It wasn't a
very big house, but then he did build it up.
But the way they built it, these guys that he
used were just not good construction guys. Yeah, so there's
a lot of jaky shit going on because you try
to get it for the cheap.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, for sure, very good for sure.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
But we had like six bedrooms and then a basement.
That's when he built it up.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
But the basement is probably why you guys will probably
hanging out the most.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, and then you can fit a lot of kids
down in the basement. He boxed up just not and
not like in terms of stealing them because that sounds horrible.
You can fit a lot of kids in the basement,
but like put a whole bunch of air mats down
and everything.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
You guys can sleep down there.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, but he would box up the room so that
everyone kind of had like their own space kind of
over there. And then some rooms have two beds, yeah,
the older kids at least.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, you got a really unique relationship with your father, I.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Would say, Yeah, unique is a good way to see.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, because if you can consider it a relationship, because
when you are someone's kid, right, especially sons, because I
remember this means the most to me. My dad went
to one wrestling match when I was in high school.
I never forget it because he went. He was always
so busy he could never go. You as a kid,

(46:53):
you look to your father almost to find strength, right, Yes,
you didn't have that.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
No, we didn't have much fatherly love, I would say.
And I get like the running the streets and everything.
You're paying the bills, but when you're a young kid
that you don't really You just think that's something they're
supposed to do as a parent provide, but you're the

(47:20):
one part that you crave as a kid is like
some type of relationship with your parents, you know. So
growing up I didn't really have that with either of
my parents. My mom and I were a lot closer,
but it was never like a real like come here, son,
we can talk about certain things. It was never a
relationship like that. It was just more like I was

(47:41):
like the oldest at the time in our group that
was actually on my dad's side, and that lived with everybody.
So I was responsible for a lot of things. So
I was almost treated as an adult really really early,
and I guess they kind of forgot that portion where
you should kind of develop a relationship with your kids.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
I've seen in past interviews where you said I felt
like a broken kit and I had no direction. Yes,
and you directly attribute to that to your relationship with
your dad. Was it because he was absent, he was
on the out in the streets and he or just
because he didn't provide that that that guidance that kids
generally look for when they think about a parent or

(48:23):
a dad at least.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
You know, my son on the wrestling Matt football field
looks dad dad like he loves having his dad there.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, and I'm open as the one thing I could
give my family when we do have one. That's the
one thing I said, would make sure I never never
keep out all, you know, make sure because it's it's
it's an investment. You should want to invest in your
kids because they're they're a better version of you, that's
what you hope for. So with that, like the gang

(48:53):
violence and everything, my brother ended up going to jail.
I did four years. When I was in college. He
was a member of the blood, same thing. Never my
dad never around, but anything he wanted, he gave it
to him and just just never really there to at
least from what my point of view, was to actually
guide him and teach him things, and so you want that.

(49:13):
Not having that for myself, it was just on top
of that for to have someone like that who's never
really around and then come home and beat the shit
out of you. You was just like, you're just like
you almost feel like you could never do anything right.
And then when they would verbally abuse you, just call

(49:34):
you stupid for everything, call you a dunce cup. We
would say said, well, yeah, yeah, dunce cup, yeah, dunce cup.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
He said, he said it made me. It's just like
your dad would say that to you, all of us.
You said it made you feel small right all the time.
Why because you were the oldest.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I don't know. He would call me a mama's boy,
and I'm just like, I don't understand why you don't
like me. What I want you to do is like me.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Did he see maybe you as a better version of him,
and maybe it became like a little bit of an
envious relationship When you look back on it as an adult, no, maybe.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
At this age, when I was in high school.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
You couldn't understand it. I get it, but you're doing
things that are very positive. He's still doing what he's doing.
You think maybe that was a little envy in the relationship.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
I wasn't a straight a student at the time, so
this was not like I was killing it in a
way that was different from him. He would always call
me to look him on, which was like his way,
I guess of kind of giving me praise because I
would be the guy who'd have to take responsibility for
a lot of things. When these guys were gone. I
was in the house alone with just me and my
sister and my younger brother and then my other little

(50:46):
sister who was then born, and we were just living together.
They'll leave, you don't answer the phone, you don't touch
the door, and whenever someone comes knocking, they call it.
I was the guy, the one that your little ones
want to try to answer it, like, no, do you
hear what they said? You don't do it. So they
always looked at me as the little man because I
was always propped and left with the responsibility of just

(51:07):
being an adult sewer, and I probably needed to be
well it's not a bad thing. And I think it's
that's why I made you grow, made grow up, why
I feel the way I do with the world today.
But I also is why I'm so kind of I
guess callous in showing emotion, and why I probably I
joke around so much because it just it just makes
it easier to not.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
You're trying to shield yourself from the hurt.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
I guess, I guess so to speak, he would have like,
I don't look people in the eyes as much as
I should. And it's because of him. Why whenever something
would happen and he would close to the room where
you're ready to whoop our ass and ask him us
what happened, and if you looked him in the face,
he said, he as we say, cut to my box,
slapped the shit out of your backhand or beforehand. And

(51:53):
then he said, don't look for me in on the fis.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
And I'm just like, but that is one thing we
learn as men to look to rec in a person's eye,
to show respect.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, So imagine having that pretty much your whole childhood
and then even as a young adolescent in high school
ninth tenth, eleventh senior year was the last time he
put his hands on.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Me, or what happened.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
He took a cable cord. He taped it up, well,
first he took it, he doubled it. He rolled the
bottom handle into He taped it up, then rolled the
bottom handle into like a grip long cable cord, double thick.
My brother opened his cases of red Bull, the one

(52:38):
that's the gang throw it would be babies now in
jail again, he drinks the red bull, opens the case
that we were told not to touch. I take one
because the good son that he never punishes, I not
that's going to happen if he did it. I take one. Somehow,
I am the one that gets crushed with this thing,

(53:02):
welts on my back, hits me with one on my head.
I heard a ring, and I still feel like sometimes
my earrings a little wild Joe on this side because
he just and my mom told him. My mom I
remember her telling me because I heard her screaming like
why the fuck would you? Why would you do that
to him?

Speaker 3 (53:18):
And it was just always me, could she protect you
or no?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
She got it too. Really yeah, so imagine sometimes I
want to just fucking you know, but you.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Never you never you never did him anything.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
As you're just not big enough until I got older,
and then when that incident happened, I didentified back to
like the very end, and I was like grab him.
I pretty much. I left the house afterwards, and I
told him like, don't ever, don't ever put your hands
on me again, Like this is just not one of

(53:56):
us is going to have to go Wow, this is
like it gets to a point where like enough is
kind of enough. And even now I try to make
amends with him, but that's a whole another story. I
wanted to get into that, but.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
It's hard to forgive that.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
I just don't talk to him. Yeah, he's just very
stuck in his ways. He's stubborn, he's selfish, he's conniving,
and he's two faces.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
But even as the world champion, did he not try
to work his way back into your life.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
No, but he tried. He's trying to take my money.
How do child support through my mom?

Speaker 2 (54:29):
How in the world could he get your money.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Because he knows my mom doesn't work, it's not making money.
He knows I will eventually have.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
To pay because he takes it from your mother. Yeah,
so's putting your mom on child support.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
My mom is on child support to pay him. Yeah,
now the child support is uh, my sisters who are
just turned twenty one, have been paying him. They've been
working for the last three years. They've been paying him
three seventy five a month, and he knows that the
money's coming from them, and he still takes it.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
That's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Even they teld him like, you know, this is our money,
and he still takes it. And then their arrears are
like fifty four thousand dollars, but he only gets fifty
dollars a month. So he's like trying to go to
the court to get that raise again so that he
could get more money. But he's just so he took
something from me.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
So he took the attitude of the street right, the hustling,
and now he's applying it to life because he's probably
too old to be able to hustle in the streets anymore.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
I think Simples doesn't want to do it, because I
got other thoughts on that, but I just think he
doesn't want to do it anymore.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Al Joe, when do you think you started to break
free from those experiences and how did those experience with
your dad shape into who you are today. Uh.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
I would wrestle with anger and wrestling is it was
my outlet. I would wrestle with anger. Was it was
it therapy? Was it therapeutic to be on the wrestling
mat therapeutic to be in the wrestling room fighting, just scrapping,
just be able to just feel like you can actually
compete and do something and kind of stand up for
yourself for something at least. You know, you see your

(56:08):
dad beating down your mom and hitting her. You can't
do anything. You're just a little boy constantly being smacked
and talk down to you. Just so that was my
outlet and then that was my therapy. And whenever I
would wrestle in matches, I was just always trying to
just kind of hurt kids.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yeah, And I would be.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Thinking about him, Yeah, just like the stuff that he
was saying now and much just to myself and then
like just feel me up.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
So you carried that into the gym with you. He
made a horrible impact on what in our adolescent years.
Those are the most important years for young men, especially
young black men, to develop to try to be great
in society and to not have that that guidance is
very unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
And when you think.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Back to that, right, what would you tell that young
al Jamaine Sterling if you had to go back today
and look at that kid right that got hit with
that thing in Uniondale and he say obviously telling him
it's gonna be all right, like it's actually gonna be okay.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
I know it's dark now, but.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
If you had to walk that kid through all those
those those dark, vicious moments, like, what would you say
to that kid? Uh?

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Maybe something similar to what my mom told me. This
is one thing I would never forget. And I give
her a praise for this because I didn't realize it
until I got older and I look back on it
and now I'm like, ah, it's kind of crazy how
everything has kind of comfortull circle. And I think it
was after he kind of beat her up or beat
the crap out of me, some of one of us,

(57:49):
and then I was crying, and I remember my mom saying,
don't worry. One day you're gonna grow and you're gonna
be big and strong. You're gonna become a big man,
and you're gonna be able to do anything that you want.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
And tell you that to uh, that kid, that's crazy
man because he did. He became a world champion, right,
even in those dark times with the fans and all that,
it could never have been that.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
So, even all those horrible experiences, they form us into
being who we are as people. Because I had a
lot of dark moments myself, and I always use them
to propel me forward.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Right, And it feels like.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
You're gonna do the same thing, because those horrible experiences
they turn us into who we are. But when you
take those lessons, right, when you look at what you
dealt with and all your family and your friends, are you,
your family and your siblings?

Speaker 3 (58:52):
How do you be? How do you? How are you?
How can you be different? How can you ensure that
to your beautiful fiance, into your unborn children that you're
not only better than your dad, but you're one of
the best fathers walking the earth? Mean, you have the
example of what not to be. How can you be better?

(59:14):
A better father, better husband?

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Just being present? I just don't think it's I don't
think what I wanted, or what any of us wanted
from him.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Was very Why did you still want that? If he
was like, if it was bad, why do you think
he still longed for that love.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Try not to get emotional. But that's all good, I
would say.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
I would say a kid who just wants to I
just feel like like the kid is good enough, you know. Yeah,
And even just having close on some some explanation on

(01:00:17):
how he was and why he was the way that
he was, And then even talking to my younger brother,
he told me that my dad randomly just told him
his parents never beat him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Really, so it's just this wasn't a learned behavior.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Yeah, so it's but you know, we learned this later on,
and I just I would just want to know, why
did you treat us the way that you did? And uh,
we don't have to have a relationship, I guess I
always just want to closure. My mom always said, you're
too nice. You always extend olive branch. I'm like, it's like,

(01:00:52):
at the end of the day, he's still my dad.
It's like, you know, I'm never gonna wish ill on him,
but I'm never gonna be like, I'm not gonna go
out of my way to to do anything for the
guy anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Al Joe, I can feel the pain of it, and
it's hard, but how you turn that pain in the purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Just trying to be better. I still have a lot
of his Uh, still have his blood. Yeah, it's trying
to be a better person, do things better, contribute to
society a better way, help pull people up where I can. Yeah,
and uh, that's all I can really try to do.

(01:01:38):
You know, nobody can tell me how I feel and
put themselves in the same situation that I've been in
and experienced. So I'm sure other people have gotten asked
by their parents too, But you know, the I guess
the trauma you kind of take with it is just
different from person.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
To person, and it's absolutely different. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Yeah, you never know how you take that stuff. And
it takes a strong man to sit here and talk
about this like most can't do what you do and
open the open your your emotions and your your life
to people as you have over the last hour. And
I hope people can understand and respect and get to

(01:02:20):
know al Jamaine Sterling a little better because I feel
like right now I learned so much about you, about
your mentality, about your thoughts about your life. I thought
this was very good for me, and it makes me
wonder right with this and with other things that you've done,
when the door is closed, right, because at thirty six

(01:02:42):
it starts to get towards the end of the career
for everyone when the door closes on him. What do
you want people to say about al Jamain Sterling.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Years and years from now, Just that this guy never
turned it down any fight, always a gamer, called the
toughest opponents, called out the toughest opponents, And even if
I came, I'm sure I always gave it my best,
and I think at the end of the day, that's
all I want people to do. Like life is hard.

(01:03:15):
Life is hard, and even when you're successful, it's still hard,
even dealing with this stuff that I have in the
backsenes that people don't know about. But you don't give up.
You just keep fighting and do the best that you can. Yeah,
I'm not the most talented or most gifted athlete, but

(01:03:36):
I've made the most out of it. And that's really
just do hard work.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
I didn't get any handouts coming up, and they have
super support, like some people have both parents that are
able to take them around and give them that development
early and things like that. I've come from never feeling
good enough to do anything to finally becoming the best.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
Of the world.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Yeah, and that for me is like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
The American dream.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
It fulfills my I feel like if it we're over today,
like I'm I feel fulfilled. And I just hope people
understand that I always gave my best with each walk
that I make through the yard.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Yeah, last thing outside of fighting, what's the next moment
in the last moment you want to climb?

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
Fatherhood?

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Well, scaling the company? The phone call for one company
which I mentioned I'm the founder of.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
You do real estate too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
I do real estate, but more passively these days, not
flipping like I was before. Maybe a little acting again.
Like I got that movie that we're working on. Hopefully
nothing changes and I'm still in it to go out
next uh this weekend for a fitting, So hopefully that
all goes well. And that will be my third movie
that I've done to date. That's actually will be coming

(01:04:55):
out and becoming a father, yeah, getting married and becoming
a husband and becoming a fallic.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
I know some people say, what about the other part?

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
So yeah, that's amazing. Well you've done well. Man. I'm
proud of you and everything you've done. Man, you have
been uh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Looking back now after hearing everything, it's been it's inspirational.
It was always inspirational to watch you. I've seen you
in some of the darkest times of your life to
some of the most shining moments of your life, and
they've always been tremendous to be a part of. From
the Sideline, But now that I know your story much
more in depth, uh, I only wish even more uh greatness.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
For you in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
So I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
You know, man, I would never want to start this
with anyone like al Jamine Sterling. Guys, for al Jamine Sterling,
Daniel Cormier, this was the Daniel Cormier Show. Thank you
guys for watching Peace