Daniel Cormier Show - Kamaru Usman on getting KNOCKED OUT by Leon Edwards, UFC title run, beating Buckley

Former UFC champion and MMA legend Kamaru Usman sits down with DC in the fifth episode of The Daniel Cormier Show! Cormier and Usman go back and talk about the Leon Edwards head kick that knocked Kamaru out. Usman shares an incredible story of how crazy it was in those hours after the fight! DC and Kamaru also talk about Rashad Evans and Anthony "Rumble" Johnson and how those guys had such an impact on Usman's MMA and UFC career. Plus, don't miss Cormier and Usman talk about his win over Joaquin Buckley, his championship legacy in the UFC, dealing with Rumble Johnson's passing, Kamaru's move from Nigeria to the United States, and when he thinks he'll call it a career and retire from the sport.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Valenteers, Chef Chenko, Welcome to a very special episode of
The Daniel Cormier Show, brought to you by Total Wireless,
the official wireless provider of UFC. They're in your corner
with unlimited five G data that will not slow you down.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Today, guys, I have the honor of sitting down with
one of.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
The greatest fighters and waltoit's to ever compete in the UFC,
Kamara rousbaand went from growing up in Nigeria to becoming
a national champion wrestler in the US and rose all
the way to be in the undisputed world champion and
put together one of the most dominant win streaks sports
ever seen. But what makes this conversation special is that

(00:48):
I'm not going to just talk to him about the
titles and the highlights. I want to talk about the
man that's behind the run. We'll get into living in Nigeria,
the identity challenges he faced, there was a knee injury
that changed his entire athletic path, and the rise from
an overlooked wrestler to a world champion. We want to
talk about the Leon Edwards fights, how emotional he was

(01:12):
after he beat Joaquin Buckley, fatherhood, mentorship, the impact of
Rashad Evans and Rumble Johnson, his future and podcasting, television
and fashion and what life looks like after fighting. Kamorrow
Usman is a fashionist to add heart today, I'm trying
to get to the fighter, the father.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
The mentor, and the man.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Guys give it up for the one and only, the
Great Tomorrow, the Nigeria knightmarre Oushman.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh, I see what you do? You understand?

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Do you understand?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I understand you?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Like that?

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:47):
I like that. I like that. That was really in
depth personal. Hey, seems more high level. I see what
you're doing there. That was I see what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
But you're a guy that deserves that type of acknowledgment
for all that you've done in your career.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
But as we look into today, right, like, what is
the thing that keeps Kamara rousmand up?

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Like, is what is keeping you up today in life?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
I think you have to. Now, I'm a father obviously,
and I'm very very honest about to who I am,
about where I am, and so I think that's that's
one of the biggest things is because of that, I

(02:36):
know that one. I'm no spring chicken. I know that
it's at some point this chapter has to flip over,
has to be have to move on from it. And
so I'm starting to realize that more and more, and
because of that what keeps gets me up. It's just
is man thinking about that next step, what potentially is

(02:59):
going to come. I think that's right now. The main
objective for me is closing this chapter out the absolute
best way possible and then using it to segue into
the next chapter.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
So what's different like right now your life today? How
much different does it look from when you were the
champion of the world? And what do you think is
one thing that would surprise people in terms of your
day to day that they might not expect from a
guy like you who lives the life that you live.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
What's the main The main difference is when you're the champion,
there's just there's just chip on your shoulder that you
are any moment, wherever you're at, you're there's a chip
on your shoulder. You're always looking over your shoulder. It's
almost like you know you you you hit it lick
by having a title, and now you're you're always looking

(03:55):
over your shoulder. They coming and get me, They come
in and get me. So there's that anxiety feel that
you have each and every time I have to get
back in the gym. I have to work out today
twice a day. I have to do this to keep
the rest off. That's a big difference to where I
am today to where I'm in a place now where
I'm more comfortable in understanding that, hey, when this fight's

(04:17):
gonna come, these emotions and these feelings are going to come.
But right now I don't need to dwell on that.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
But do you miss that?

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I mean there's something to having that right that constantly
in fight mode, knowing that there's essentially danger at every
turn because you are the guy with the target on
your back. You are the guy that's holding onto that
championship belt that so many people cover it.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I do miss it in a sense, but I don't
miss it. I don't miss it at the same time
because I understand now that I can turn it on
and off. I'm not completely done to where I'm like, Okay,
I'm never gonna feel that again. Yeah, but I do
understand that. Okay, I know how to turn that on.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Is he but isn't it even a harder balance and
act being that you are still active, right, but you
are a guy that recognizes I'm closer to the end
than I am to the beginning, right, But I do
want to still live in that battle where I know
I can still be a world champion, but I also
now have this family and my life is so different

(05:18):
around me.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
It's harder in the sense of as the competitor wanting
to make my way there and getting there. We only
knew one way, dc. We knew that one way was
the only way I could truly measure success or the
one thing I could really accredit to success is consistent work,

(05:43):
and that consistent work is the one way I can go.
You know what, It's because I was doing this consistently
all the time I was locked in. I was that's
what got me here. So with now being in this
position is now you've got a family. Now you you
gotta go to tennis practice. Now you have to maybe

(06:05):
change a diaper, and those things pull you emotionally away
from that consistent anxiety thinking about the next move and
fighting and this and the next guy. And so that's
a tricky one to where it could be more. But
also it could be better in the sense of you
need that little relaxation, that little mind away from this,

(06:28):
so when you get back in this, you are fully aware.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
You know, you and I both come from a world
in wrestling where it's very hard to be the absolute man,
and while you are the man, there's always someone bigger,
better at times.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Right.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
So in wrestling, you were a multiple time national champion
in a different levely one okay.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
One time multiple time All Americans, American finalists, but a
national champion, right.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
You went to the Olympic level chasing that dream and
you were like one of the fifth best guys in
the world. So I said in the intro, a little
bit of an overlooked wrestler. Hard to be overlooked when
you have those levels of accomplishments. But in wrestling it
is that. But in fighting, something must have clicked for

(07:16):
you to become the man that you became on that
run to the championship, ultimately putting together one of the
greatest wind streaks we've ever seen in the UFC. Can
you recall a time where you felt it click for
you where you're like.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Okay, now I know I'm ready to be the guy.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, that's a great question. But first let's clear up
because you know the wrestling guy is gonna come for us,
So let's clear up this. I was an Olympic Training Center.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Resident, yes, but you were chasing that dream.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, I was chasing that dream, really working up, and
I was really competitive with those guys in one, two,
three guys on the ladder. But they just came a
time where I because it was like Mma was like
the girlfriend and I think you and King Mohen and
we went through kind of this similar struggle where we

(08:05):
love wrestling. That's the world we were comfortable in. Yeah,
but you started flirting now with this new this new
thing like a new girlfriend. Yeah. So I went over
there and trained a little bit, not man kind of
like like this thing. So wrestling practice going on, and
the coach are showing the moves and I'm standing in
the back. Why everyone's kind of taking the knee sitting.

(08:25):
I'm standing list watching the moves, but I'm shadowing it.
I can imagine how how just irritated Zatic or Slave
brother Slave was at that moment looking back there, and
I'm doing while I'm watching them, because was mentally I

(08:45):
was starting to kind of cheat on wrestling a little bit,
and so I made the decision fully after the twenty
twelve trials, and I was like, I'm going to this,
and of course I'm afraid of it because it's a
fear of the unknown. I don't know what's going to
happen on that side. This is a dangerous sport. This
is different wrestling. We were controlled in a sense to

(09:05):
where this is all they throwing elbows and knees. Oh man,
I don't know. I don't know about this. And I
get in there, and obviously wrestling is the one tool
that's the biggest tool to help you in that next avenue.
I could kind of control the real estate of a sparring,

(09:27):
but I never really throwing punches at something, yeah, other
than just street fights. And now I'm in a training
session and I'm just getting whooped on. I'm telling you,
it was one day, and I've told the story a
few times. Rashaw whooped me so bad. And he was
on the road too, kind of like we are. Now.
We're on the road for like three weeks a month,

(09:47):
and Rashaw's on the road doing these shows, commentating and analysts.
Come back and I'm at home just training it. Yeah,
I'm like, oh, I can't wait for him to come back.
Big Bro's coming back. I'm gonna put it on him.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
I'm gonna tell show him.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
I'm gonna show him. You better be in the gym
like me. You ain't been in the gym. We go
to practice. He's still talking on the side. I'm plotting
in my head what I'm gonna do to him at
this practice session. It's a sparring day. I'm plotting all yeah,
I'm gonna take him down. I'm gonna just I'm gonna
I know he ain't in shape. I'm gonna kill him.

(10:20):
And he's still talking to like fans that would come
in to our junker. We had a superstar gym at
that point. Oh yeah, black zillions. And so we start sparring.
I'm like, no, I'm gonna give him like a round
or two less. Somebody get him tired, and then I'm
gonna put it on him. Then we finally get going,
like about the third fourth round. This man per persistently

(10:46):
beat the shit out of me, took me down, crucified me.
I shot him for takedowns and I couldn't get him.
Not only could I not get him. He stuffed about
two three of them and then he took me down.
Come on, took me now, held me down. You know
back then with shot was heavy bottom, like he can
just oh man. He was crucifying me and just kind

(11:08):
of play with me. And it was just a long
ride home that day. That's crazy, you know how you
you just get meat up. I'm staying out the window.
I'm not looking at him and driving and I'm not
looking at him. I'm staying out the window trying not
to make Yeah, I can't believe he did this to me.
That moment, Yeah, that moment almost broke me. But it
wasn't until like a year and a half later. I

(11:29):
was sparring with one of our guys, Danilo Villefort, who
was one of the video really good and we're sparring
and Danillo was used to be a bully when it's
sparring session. He would just bully some of the like
us that weren't that great at us.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
This.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, he bullied me, but it made me better, It
made me tougher. One day, he was preparing for a
fight and he's going, he's going, he's going crazy, and
I'm just I could see the shots a little better.
I could see him a little better. I could defend myself.
I can block, and when I blocking, it wouldn't as bad.
And I'm staying in there, staying in there, staying in there.

(12:04):
And then maybe ten seconds left, I throw a hook,
left hook, and I don't feel anything, but I just
throw it. Round's over and he goes over and he comes.
He comes back to me towards the end and he
goes It was almost like he wasn't mad at me,
but he was almost like you almost fucking knocked me out.
I was like, what He's like, Yeah, you almost fucking

(12:26):
knocked me out with that left hook. Made me almost
kind of you know. And I just remember saying to
my and he was like kind of like telling me, like,
good job. I almost remember walking out of that practice cord, Oh,
I'm ready. I am getting something is working here, And
at that moment, I was like, Okay, maybe I can
do something with this. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
And then you became a guy that was known for pace, pressure,
cardio and mental and fight IQ. When you're in that
gym and you're taking those beatings and you're fighting these
guys daily, all these high level guys, and you're just
chipping away, taking stuff from them.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
What do you think was the.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Hardest thing to develop and what took the longest, Because
obviously the jiu jitsu comes right away, it's like too
similar to wrestling, But what about everything else? When you
were like looking back now, what do you think took
the longest to developed?

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I wouldn't say, Yeah, the jiu jitsu came relatively because
we were grapplers that heart. As wrestling grapplers hard. Obviously
it took time to learn the traps and the little
tricks that they would set you up with. But I
would for me, I would say the kickboxing because the
balance is different. Of course, as a wrestler, we're over

(13:42):
our front leg and competed, and then you go into
now trying to learn boxing to where you're sitting back
and throwing just hands to where now as kickboxer, you
have to be balanced to be able to lift that
leg to defense, and not only lift that leg, be
ready to drop at that at the drop of a
dime to defend the shot and return some or change

(14:06):
levels and get under someone. So the kickboxing took time,
and obviously the spar and two because yeah, wrestling we're
strong we're strong legs, but if someone is tapping that
lag with that outside let, after a while, that starts
to get tender. And I would say, there was a
lot of times where I would go home, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Did you did you ever get like cut, knocked out
anything in the training room?

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Because I did kan Kana broke my nose.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Jason Mayhem Miller cut me with a bad knee to
the eye and never got knocked out, but I did
get hurt in practice before. Did you ever have any
of that happen, especially in those earlier years of your career.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
I was stunned a couple of times. Yeah, I do
remember Chicago Silva hit me with a really good right
hand that you know, kind of cracks the neck and
you just get stunned a little bit. But then I've
been dropped one time besides that, the head cake that
we heard around the world. I was dropped one time

(15:08):
ever my career. That was by Michael Johnson at practice.
I had just fought. I fought, and then I took
like two weeks off, and then I came back, you know,
jumped writing this sparring with Michael Johnson. That's who had
the time so fast so fast. It was three weeks
away from a fight. He was in shape, and Michael

(15:29):
and I went a whole five minutes with him and
Michael towards the end of sparring too. It's not great.
Michael put it on me, on me too, where he
sat me down and it's funny. I have the video
and of course rashot as into the archives.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Please make sure he reminds me get out of line.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Oh my god, I'm surprised the video hadn't come out yet.
But he sits me down and I fall down When
I sit down, I fought sit back. I fall down
on my arm like this a l but it just
goes to show aiming at that time and even to
today's day, how special Michael Johnson was. Because Michael was

(16:15):
a such a great combination of speed and power, young
skinny guy like that, or he'll put it on.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
You he was. He was good, all right, guys.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
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Speaker 3 (18:00):
We'll get into rashot Evans a little later.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
But that's that's your brother, because if he wasn't, that
would already have surface course, right, if he wasn't your brother,
people would have seen that video because people always in today,
especially in today's world, clout chasing you become the champion,
or that would have leaked at that moment.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
But obviously he cares about you too much. Tomorrow. Is
there a difference?

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Is there a difference between tomorrow usman, the hungary tomorrow
usman and comfortable tomorrow usman. Comfortable in the sense of
I was the world champion, you made boatloads of money,
you have essentially everything, opposed to that kid that walked
into that gym in South Florida.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
What's the difference.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
The difference is, Yeah, there's a difference. The difference is
you're wise enough to know now that there is light
at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, because when you
first come in, it's the fear of the unknown to
where it's just like, I don't know what's going to
happen here. So I'm blindly going and I don't care

(19:11):
about anything but this.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
But but but isn't that that naive, hungry, broke person
exactly who you need to be at that moment to
have that belief that at some point this thing Because
where did you live when you moved to.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
True, that's you're you're absolutely right. But now I know that, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
How do you keep them alive? Though? With the comfort? Oh?

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Because I can turn that back on because nothing is
greater than what the goal that I've set my set
up for myself. And so as long as I'm still
willing to to not to tirelessly chase that, I think

(19:55):
I'm okay. Yeah, because when you when you first come in, yes,
you're tirelessly want to chase it. Well, you don't know
if it's gonna work out. You don't know, You're you're
just like man, I don't know if this training every
day is doing anything. I still feel like I can't strike,
I still feel like I'm not good at grappling jiu jitsu.
I don't know. I'm still broke. Yeah you know, Yeah,

(20:18):
but now I'm in position to where I know, with
that consistent work, I can get there. Yeah, but it's
just the moment I just I I and like I said,
I'm honest with myself, the moment I realize I'm not
willing to turn that on.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
You can't tap into that guy.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
When I can't tap into that dude that I know
I have to be to go and fight a Joaquin Buckley.
I gotta walk away from this day. That's gonna be
a very hard day. A lot of people think they
can do it. It's gonna be a very hard day
when you walk away. It's not gonna be just emmm
though it'll be. You'll be walking away from a lifetime
of competition.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
You know that. That's interesting you say that, DC, because
I know I get emotional a little bit now after victories.
But I'm gonna give you the honest truth, and that's
because I am. I am a very spiritual person to
where I understand that this chapter is gonna be over

(21:18):
at some point, so it's turn. It's almost like me
slowly mourning the loss of the loss, of the not
necessarily loss, but me leaving this chapter. It's a life
I'm I'm I'm slowly mourning that to where I understand
each and every time I step out there now, it's

(21:39):
a blessing and it's an opportunity, and I am ultimately
grateful for that, because, let's be honest, I'm gonna miss this,
and you tell me, yeah, don't you miss don't you
miss it?

Speaker 2 (21:51):
As I missed competition because it's always that's all I did,
It's all we did our whole lit.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
But here's the thing. I know, as tough as it was,
and even more so for you, don't you miss that preparation.
But that's what I miss. Nothing else matters, but what
you have coming up.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
You missed the chase and you miss the camaraderie that
comes with the preparation. That's what you'll miss. But the
reality is like, you have big things down the line
and that'll save you, especially if you can be a
part of the show still. Like me, I don't really
I don't really have to miss all the fame and

(22:28):
all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
I think athletes struggle.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
With that, but mourning alone if they don't.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Have that, Yeah, mourning a loss of a life that
I once lived was difficult because from fifteen to forty one,
I competed at the highest level of sport. So when
that was gone, that was difficult and you'll experience that,
I promise you, and it'll be and once you get
through it, you'll be better for it. But it's something

(22:55):
you got to kind of just kind of like let happen.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
And just to wrap up on that, there was like
all through life, I just I've been so blessed to
be around just greatness, greatness all over to where how
lucky were we to where I There was one time
when I was young, younger, I think I just left
high school and came back to for freshman year in college,

(23:23):
I think, and came back to uh wrestle around with
like the group in Texas down there, and and at
this point I started to grow my body a bit.
It was torn out, you know that wrestling shape is
different different. And someone made a comment because it was
we were like in a camp setting and Kenny Monday was there, right,

(23:45):
and someone made a comment about my body kind of like, man,
look how big and ripped or cut up that he was.
And to kind of like make fun of Kenny but
just joking with him. Yeah that's fun, you know, fun show.
And Kenny turns and says this, and I don't know
if he probably won't remember this, but it was just

(24:07):
funny how they stuck with me. Kenny turned and said, this, man,
do you know how tight I was at that age? Yeah,
you know, and said that just funny. They were poking
fun at each other and they kind of laughed it off.
And it's weird that that stuck with me.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
I don't know why, because it was him recalling that time.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, yes, And Kenny was a guy that I studied once.
I wanted to elevate myself from wrestling study to puma,
how he moved and how he he wrestled, and then
seeing his you know, of course, so I got back
to see that. And then now I'm kind of in
a position to where I'm like, man, someone might say
that to me one day, yeah, and I might have
to look back and go, man, do I miss that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (24:48):
You were you know.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
One thing that I didn't know about you was I
knew you were African.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I didn't know you lived in Nigeria.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Do you remember Do you have any memories of that,
of the time there in Nigeria?

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, And it's so it's so vivid because as a child,
because you you only recall like certain moments. Yeah, right,
I stick with you and I was just there enough
to really engulf the culture in the way that it
will never leave me. Yeah, it will never leave me.
That's why I'm so connected to the place. I was
going for almost twenty years and I was still I

(25:27):
still live and love to represent that place. Yeah, it's
something in our blood that we are just tied to
that place, and so yeah, I remember it. There was
a lot of moments with my brothers, my older brother,
doctor Kashuschmann, and my younger brother there's just there's three
little boys running around and just kind of causing mayhem. Yeah, yeah,

(25:52):
it was. It was really good times. It was fun.
And I mean we grew up humble beginnings. Yeah, we farmed,
and not only we farm, my mom had a little
convenient store to where we sold things to where it
was very very humble beginnings. But I don't remember any

(26:12):
moment where I was unhappy.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
That's that's the craziest thing.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I grew up like very poor, and I just felt
like I was always so loved that it didn't really
matter what we had because you felt love.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
So it's like you don't feel like you're missing as much.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Obviously, there are moments where you wish you had what
another kid had, because the people around you that mattered
so much, loved you so much, it didn't really matter.
But then you guys moved to the United States, And
do you remember why you guys moved to the units parents?

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Why you guys moved there?

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Of course, I mean, it's one of the main reasons
why every immigrant really kind of immigrates to a certain
area or place for opportunity. And in Nigeria, where you're
so populated like that, and you live in a country
of just brilliant mind, I mean, if you look right now,
you look at Harvard, there's a percentage at are Nigerians.

(27:04):
Look at Columbia, you look at Yale, you look at
all these the ivy leave, you look at the doctor
some of the top doctors in the States, in the UK,
all over the world, there's a Nigerian in any mix.
We come from a culture of people who are ambitious
and who are relentless in their pursuit of excellence. And

(27:29):
with that being said, it's just so many people running
the exact same race to where there's not enough. There's
only ten spots over there, but you've got a million
people running that race for that ten spot. And you know,
my father was in the military and he found got
an opportunity here to be in the military here, and

(27:50):
he came here and became a a pharmacist. And I
think back then there was this lottery program you can
kind of and we were granted visus to come here.
And so it was the opportunity and yes and lucky
and my father dared to take that chance, go into

(28:15):
a foreign land and create an opportunity for his family,
which is forever I will be grateful for forever.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Was there anything better than giving the belt to your dad?

Speaker 2 (28:27):
For me? It was like so amazing, Like when my dad,
it used to fill my heart. I honestly, my father's
not here anymore, but it would fill my heart to
give my dad the belt. And he could go back
and say, my son's a world champion. He can go
to Lafayette and all the people that your dad cuts

(28:47):
grass at the City of Lafayette, he go to all
those even go my son's a world champion.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
That filled me with so much pride.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Was ever anything that felt better to you than handing
your mind or your dad.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
That built like, yeah, that's very interesting that we can
spend so much time talking about this. I and obviously
in college I took this philosophy class, and in philosophy
they we had to read the Pursuit of Happiness by
you know, or Aristotle one of them, and we had

(29:22):
to kind of come up with that in our head.
And doing that that whole term of going through that
essay and studying this, I came up with my pursuit
of happiness. And in my pursuit of happiness, I believe
there's there's three avenues in your pursuit of happiness. And
I call it flooring someone. And what I mean by

(29:45):
that is you put them in such a state to
where that state money can't buy that saint, nothing can
buy what they feel, the happiness that you create inside them,
to where you make someone cry uncontrollably, for you to
floor your father to where he couldn't even buy the

(30:08):
fact that his son is a world champion. Yes, he
couldn't buy the fact that now you are able to
do something for him or just give him, give him
that stance that station in life to say my son made.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
It, Yeah, I did something right. It is it is
a reflection of them.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
It's a reflection of them because it's the it's the
the one thing in life that you cannot buy, they
cannot really control, is that future. And so that's the
first averne is you flooring your parents. You're giving them
that level of happiness to where you know what it

(30:50):
is when you just see them look at you. There's
a smile that comes on their face and it's a
weird smile you don't see You've never seen that usually,
and you just see that moment and inside you just know,
I've done it.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
I did you feel you're full of joy.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
You're full of joy. And then it's the next level
is when you show it to your kids, where you
give it to them, where your kid goes looks at
you and goes, holy shit, that's my dad. Yes, when
they are so damn proud, that's my dad. When your
kid brags about you at school, sh my dad's a
world championship that moment. And then the third level is

(31:29):
when they repay the favor, because now it's a circle
of life which goes in turn with the pursuit of happiness.
Now they give it to you, Now they have to
do it to their kids, and hopefully one day their
kids give it to them. But at every one the
other party cannot control. Yeah, that is my pursuit of
happiness and the moment I was able to do that

(31:50):
for my father. I mean, it's words can't describe that.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, but what do you think the hardest part of
moving to the United States was?

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well, I think, like most immigrant is the simulation of
really because I hate to say, but this is just
the country that that requires you the excellence from you,
or at least it's going to ask of you excellence.
This is the one you come into this country. You

(32:20):
better learn English. Yeah, hey, you better learn English. We're
not trying to learn that. Whatever language you're speaking, you
better learn that.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
I know I know no foreign language.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Where you go. You go to Africa, you go to
Nigeria and go to some places where oh come in,
come in, you speak Chinese? Oh coming? Well, yeah, we
we sign for you. We'll try to figure out whatever.
We'll find it. Wake you feel comfortable, Yes, we'll make it.
You feel comfortable to where here. It's like, you better
learn that damn English. If you don't learn that English,

(32:51):
you better go back.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Did you not speak English when you got here?

Speaker 1 (32:54):
I spoke English obviously, because Nigeria is part of that
West Africa and that was kind of colonized by British,
so we spoke UK English. But I'm a child. I'm
still learning here the actual proper English. Where you come
to the States, it's different. In UK. The trash is
dust been so when so you come here to say

(33:16):
throw that in the trash, You're like what where? Or
open the trunk of the car, go to the boot.
So you learn these things. So now having to come
here and then learn that it's and then obviously I
was in the class called ESL, which ESL was kind
of in school of kids are cruel kids? Made it
seem like that's the you're in the special.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Class because you're trying to learn a new language.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yes, because you're self, which really meant English as a
second language, to try to teach you, help you assimilate
to English. Kids are cruel kids made fun of it
or you in that short but you had a special class.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
I would have been one of those morons doing that too.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
You definitely was. I could tell you. And one of them.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Supid, you don't even know what it means. There's just
three letters that I don't recognize that I'm making funny.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah, you and it's so stupid. Yeah, so yeah, just
that simulation was really really tough for me. But yeah,
we're kids. You don't understand that. You don't know that
you were just rolling with the punches each and every
day as long as you wake up, you got food
in your belly, you got loved ones around you. You
don't really care about any of that.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
You know. One time you and I were having a conversation.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
We talk a lot off Cameron, out of the public eye,
and I remember when Ben and even me one time,
we're at us this night and I called Jamarty right
and I asked you, why do you not want to
be called that anymore? When the whole time we had
and you gave me this great answer. You said, because

(34:47):
it's not my name. And I said, well, why did
you accept it?

Speaker 3 (34:51):
To me?

Speaker 2 (34:52):
It was so simple, and you said, I've grown into
my name.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
My name.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Somebody called me this when I was a young kid,
and I thought I was supposed to just accept it. Well,
can you kind of explain that to people? Because no
one people didn't quite understand. But then the moment you
told me, I was like, fuck, I get it. It
makes sense and it makes me It made me look
at you like fuck man, take that strong African name

(35:23):
and wear it proudly.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Right. No, it's that's a great question because and it's
funny because my coach who started it, why saw me.
He was at my last fight. I brought him out
to my last fight and he was apologizing to me,
and I just felt I felt bad in a sense

(35:47):
because of how big this had gotten thanks to you,
Ben asking. Yeah, because of Ben, because of how big
this had gotten to what he felt maybe he did
something wrong. He didn't do anything wrong. You know, when
your child you're coming up up in something and some sport,
everyone has a nickname. You give everyone a nickname. And
it started kind of with you know, when you're in

(36:09):
the study hall, you're in the group, they have to
call you roll call your name, And my name was
actually on there in school. So he goes Cub and
I'm talking about my coach is a military or former
marine bus cut, no nonsense kind of guy, and he's going,
uh a Ron Hill brunch here, coach, come come mad

(36:35):
and my name is Kamar, Kamar Kam. Yeah, and so
he goes Mary Mark. Okay, I can't say I'm not
saying that Marty, which he was just it was just joke.
It's like, Marty, I'm gonna call you Marty. I'm like, oh,
that's me, coach. I'm fight for two one hundred three pounds.

(36:57):
And he's I'm like that that's me, coach. He's like,
I'm gonna call Marty. That's cool. And at that time,
like I said, I want to similar you wanted to
just be one of the guys.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
We want to be like you want to be there
and just not too much calls.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Too much ruckus. I'm not in the position yet where
I want to stand out. You know, kids like to follow,
you don't. We don't want to stand out for the
pack because when you're a kid, you don't really understand
how powerful that is. And so I'm like, I just
want to go with it. So I went with it,
all right, Marty. But now I guess what, Now the
team starts calling me Marty. So we all know, like

(37:31):
anything else, if you suck at something that nick you
die off. At that moment, no one remembers you that
unless you're doing something goofy or crazy. I started to excel.
So when you start to excel, the name grows with you. Now,
it's Marty here. Marty won that tournament. Marty's here, Marty's night,

(37:52):
number one of the top kids in the state. Now,
now collegiate coaches are calling, hey, this kid, Kamarrudi. We're
trying to oh, you mean Marty. So my coach says
that just unknowingly, he's oh, yeah, you mean Marty. So
now college coaches hear that. Now they oh Marty, Now
they call me that. Now I go to college, and

(38:14):
that's they're calling me that already, and I'm already in
here to where that name grows with me. And then
it would have died off in college that I sucked,
but I continue to excel. I won a national championship.
I came off the math the telemprompter at the bottom

(38:34):
during the interviews it said Marty Euschmann, which is crazy
now that I look at it, which is crazy to
me because that's not my name, But at that time
that's what it was, and I will I would have
to admit this right now, I've never said this before.
Doing a lot of reflection on that. I think part

(38:55):
of that was being a little ashamed to be on
a label differently, or call it this because my name
was different than Aaron or Chris or Jason or my
name was different. So for them to say the mouthful
of my name, I think I was a little maybe
ashamed of that. So I just went with the Marty thing,

(39:18):
even though it wasn't that big of a deal, which
I actually is. It is. So once I got into
a position now to where not only am I representing
myself or trying to do this sport, now I'm representing
my name, my father, representing his lineage and his father
and everyone the name that they gave me. I'm like, no,

(39:40):
I have to represent that. I'm a growl man now
I'm not a child. And so and Ben, listen, no,
I you know, I I'm good with everything now. But
with Ben, it was when Ben came in, he tried
to kind of use it as a joke because Ben
came in.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Ben came in, ha ha.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
He came and Ben was just doing everything to try
to get the biggest fight, to get the biggest fights,
which I understand. And so when he came in, it
was like, first of all, now I got this chip
on my shoulder because he was a better wrestler. He
was a better wrestler accolades wise, not even close. I
started wrestling my sophomore year in high school, and Ben

(40:18):
had won, Ben who won probably won more titles as
a kid than I had ever combined. And so now
he starts saying that, and not only saying he's kind
of saying it in a condescending way, kind into pope fun.
So I'm like, well, you don't really know me.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
You don't know me, you don't.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Know me like that, So you can't say that.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
And plus that.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Is no longer my name. I'm not I'm not a
wrestler a kid in high school anymore. I'm a grown man.
Hey address me properly. And then he kind of ran
with it and made fun with it, which it was great.
I mean I wish we would have got a chance
to fight, because that was another big fight. Yeah, because
now hindsight, looking back, you want everybody fight. You want

(41:00):
to fight every big fighters.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah possible. Do you think that you grew into your
name or grew into yourself as a person.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I grew into myself as a person. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Because if I'm not who I am as a person,
then what kind of representation are you doing to that name?

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah? Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
You you got hurt in football, and it almost ended
everything for you?

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Was that in high school? You just like what happened
high school?

Speaker 1 (41:28):
But it's like I said, freshman year, it's five foot two, yeah,
one hundred and three pounds Texas football.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
It's big town football. It's big time football. On there,
bro High School.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
One hundred and three pounds Texas football.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, what were you doing? I was a tailback, Boom,
What were you doing out there?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
I got I got a chance to run the ball. Boom.
It was like a forty three cutback. Boom gone, probably
got like fifteen twenty yards. Now I'm like, oh, it
was a big hole right there. Oh yeah, I like that.
They call another play, but this time to the other side.
But I'm like, that hole is open.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Last time he went back.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Cut it, Boom went back to the hole. I got
hit so hard, and I'm fired for two hundred and
three pounds. I haven't hit puberty yet, so I'm soft.
I'm soft at this point. I mean, I usuldly jam
my fingers trying to catch it, football, all these things,
and I get smacked so hard. I'm on my back
just like screaming every cussword I could think of, and

(42:34):
the assistant football coach was assistant wrestling coach John Manz,
and he was kind of trying to be poking at me, Hey,
why don't you come try wrestling, because you know in
high school you want to recruit those little kids because wrestling,
we know that those little guys have an opportunity to
excel at a sport that it's not just football and basketball.

(42:56):
Because in Texas football, basketball and track there was a
key yep. So it's like, you want to recruit that man.
So he was kind of he saw that I kind
of had some athletic ability, and he was asking me
to come in. But I've never done wrestling, So I'm like,
ah no, but I have to take in this hit.
I said, you know what, it's about time to find
something else.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
You never played football again.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Never played football again. The next year, toward sophomore year,
I signed up for wrestling. I went straight into it.
The study hall. I just I started to just go
into wrestling.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yeah yeah, did you think it was over? Like, like,
how badly were you in or wasn't bad?

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I was soft at that point I.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Got I'm just back there.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
I think I probably lived for like a week after that.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Oh my gosh ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
You You went from being a guy that pursued something
to building one of the greatest legacies in the welterweight division.
I have seen on multiple occasions this week people, you
are the greatest walterweight champion of all time and not

(44:05):
the great George Saint Pierre.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
I am not saying that.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
I'm just saying that I have heard that this week
as we have a bunch of h walterweight's fighting up
in the next a very upcoming future. But you're on
this wind streak, right. Do you recall a time where
you go, this is special. I can tell that I'm
building something very special.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
No, I tried. I tried very hard not to do that.
Why because I watched some of the grades. I studied
some of the grades. And then while you're doing that,
they try not to because you have to stay locked
in president, you have to stay present. And by watching
them and kind of studying them, it took the opportunity

(44:52):
away from me to really sit back and go, oh man,
let me smell the roses. No, for me was what
was next? What was next? Because I found the satisfaction
in the chase, in the chase of the next thing,
the next thing and the next thing, and so sitting
there and going, oh, man, you know this was great.

(45:13):
I'm great, I've did this. This is great. I couldn't
I couldn't do that. I was just like, okay, what's next.
I remember the last time I thought about it, I
was five and one trying to get into the UFC
and they were saying, oh, well, if which spot opens up,
we'll give you a call. And then obviously the Ultimate

(45:33):
Fighter came about. But I just remember that was the
last time I was like, man, five and one, I
should do so. But then I would. I would always
compare to Rashat because I had an example of right there,
the right way to do it. And I remember I
went through his I think Rashad Evans actually had a

(45:53):
fifteen fight wind Street. We can check that, Yeah, we
can check that. I think at one point where shot
had it was on fifteen fight wind Street. And I
just remember looking, I'm like, damn, it's just when when when?

Speaker 3 (46:04):
When?

Speaker 1 (46:04):
When? Man? If I'm ever so lucky, I hope I'm
blessed with this one day to be able to go
on this run. But all I could think about I
was five and one, and then I was just the
next one. But the next one. I need the next one.
I need the next one. I never really stopped to go, man,
I'm doing well until before the last fight, where every

(46:26):
interview everyone's going, hey, you're about to type break this record,
to break this record, You're about to do this. How
you feel about this? I'm like, well, I never really
thought about it, but now that sh it's in my
head now I'm thinking about it until it didn't happen.
But yeah, I tried not to ever really dwell on it.
But now in the position i'm and I'm looking back
and going, man, not only am I going to miss

(46:48):
that chapter once it's done, I need to just kind
of appreciate it a little bit before it's gone.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Do you feel like there's a part of your MMA
journey that is a bit overlooked, Like maybe it's the
not getting the right opponents at the right time, the
slow burn to finally get in the title opportunity. Do
you think any part of what you did gets a
bit overlooked and you wish that it was appreciated a
little more.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
No, because where I'm at right now, I'm blessed to
even look back and I'm like I said, I'm spiritual
to who I know. Everything happens for a reason, and
so being underappreciated early on built gave me that chip
on my shoulder to do something spectacular enough to have

(47:36):
the fans respect you in a certain Yeah, and so
I wouldn't I wouldn't go back and change anything. I
don't think anything really was overlooked. Yes, I at the time,
I hated, you know, even that comment when Danis thought
I was saying, oh, I came in with thirty you know,
effort and being kind of you know, because as wrestlers,

(47:58):
when we come in we want to take Now that's
the tool we have. And so coming in and doing
that to guys, I really built that grappling aspect of myself.
And yeah, he probably wasn't the most fan friendly style
at first, but it gave me the foundation to grow
into standing and striking.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
And that's your story, right, that's a part of your
story that I think we as MMA fans sometimes don't understand.
Do you think, like overall, like as you look back now,
that people understand Kamara Uzwan and understand what he needed
to be in order to be who he is today,
or do you think it's still a little bit misinterpreted.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
It's still a little bit misinterpreted. But but I say,
the majority that know me, they know what to expect
from me. They know I can stand and bang and
bang if we need to. But they also know that
I can grapple to the point where in this fight.
I can't tell you how much I was getting from

(49:04):
fans going, man, take him down. You could take him now, Bro,
you gotta take him down, take him down, don't even
play that. Fans appreciated the fact that I have that
tool to take someone down, control them down there, and
land some damage on him. I was hearing. I couldn't
believe I was hearing fans say that to me, Bro,
you could take him down, Bro, you take him down. Bro.

(49:25):
They were, yes, they were. Fans were excited to see
me take him down, completely shut him down, and control
him and land damage down there, which was crazy to
me because I grew up here. Bro, you're so bored
when I was thirty twenty twenty seven. I was thirty
twenty five to thirty twenty six. Guys, I think my

(49:47):
first five or six fights, there wasn't one fight I
didn't get a ten to eight round yeah, and fans
would they don't want to set the wrestle yes to
where now. I mean, I'm in a position to where
they're going. Man, you gotta take him down, you control
them domin. Man, your wrestling is great, You got to
use that. I'm like, damn, you know y'all like.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Wrestling this, it's because you've already shown that you're willing
to do that. You did get on that long win streak,
but then it famously ended in one of the most
dramatic ways that I think anyone has ever seen in

(50:26):
a fight. You're fighting lean edwards in Utah. You're winning
the fight, right. He might have won the first round,
but then the next three rounds you dominate. It's very
close to the end. John Annigma murmur Like says, this
is not the clause by which he has cut And
then the head kick.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Do you remember any like, do you remember anything?

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Because I mean, like seriously, because it was it was
It was a clean knockout, right, Can you go back
now and recall the moments after or are you still
missing no those memories because I still don't have those
memories from Jones knocked me out?

Speaker 1 (50:59):
No, you can't. It's like lost in time. It's when
your computer shuts down boom and then reboots right away. Well,
it reboots the time from when it shut down to
when a reboot the computer got no new information.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Have you tried to try to recall it?

Speaker 1 (51:17):
You when you when you watch it, you feel like
you can recall that, but deep on inside you know
you can't.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
But like when you watch right the fight and you
watch yourself leaving the.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Octagon, I don't remember none of that.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
See.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
I saw myself crying one time walking back to the back,
and I was like, when did that happen? It's not funny,
it's not funny, Like I just like, when.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Did that happen? Right?

Speaker 4 (51:40):
What do you remember coming? Like the light's coming back.
I was actually talking about this yesterday. It's so crazy
because it happens. I get I'm sitting up on the stool.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Obviously the coaches are gonna be there with you, and
you know we're gonna ask the famous question what happened?
What do you hit me with? What do you hit
me with? You know? And I didn't realize I'd asked
it multiple times. I didn't realize I had asked it
multiple times. But Trevor obviously told me later. So we
get done. I stand there, they announce him as the winner.

(52:11):
I even dap him up, and I walk out of
there right autopilot. I walk out, walked, I'm dapping up
fans on the way out. All right, I'll get them
next time. Walk out all the way to the back sea.
Family cut the gloves off for me. I'm in the tent.
I'm okay, I'm there see family. That transition probably was

(52:32):
fifteen maybe twenty minutes. Get done with family and the
UFC IS. I said, I'm okay, I'm fine. They're like, yeah,
just let's just go to the hospital just to scan
and make sure you're everything's fine. I said, okay, it's
just percussion. I get an ambulance. I helped my family
and then we're good. So I get an ambulance. I'm
going towards. I'm going to the hospital to me and

(52:53):
my manager Ali. Ali's in a ambulance with me. They're asking,
of course, and the paramedic back there, they're going to
ask their questions. So she's asking me questions and I'm
answering questions. And then she asked me this one question,
do you not only she asked me the question. I
think she asked me the question twice. She goes in

(53:17):
a row boom first time, do you know where you're at?
I didn't really hear it, but I can. I know
it's the same question. She asked me again. All right,
so do you know what day it is? And me
in It's almost like a competition, competitive, you know, mode.

(53:39):
I wanted to get the right answer out, not just
get it out right. I want to get it out
and give her more so she knows exactly that not
only do I know the answer to that, but I'll
give you more for extra credit. Do you know a
D Yeah, of course not. It was Saturday, August something.
Do you like the Utah UFC two seventy fuck.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
And you woke up? Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
That's how you woke up UFC two seventy Oh. If
they're asking me question, no, really, that's I'm like, no way. Ali.
Ali's there on his phone with this look on his face.
I just knew. I was like, no way, there's no

(54:32):
way you broke down. There's no way. I mean, I
no I took I just you know, because my brother's
there so we can just talk and we're fully honest
and transparent with one another. So I didn't really break
down there, but I'm like, there's no way what we
get back and we'll get to the in the hospital.
And I'm sitting in the room. Man, at this point,

(54:53):
I'm shadow boxing because I'm fine. Everything is good. I'm
back now I'm shadow boxing. I'm just like no, And
of course we just slit the world on fire with
what just happened. And there's he's going through Twitter and
we're looking at things and someone had clipped out because

(55:16):
my daughter was there. Someone had clipped out my daughter,
Like you know, she's happy because for all she's ever
known is Daddy go out and win and do everything.
And my daughter watched his brutal headcake. She never seen
her dad down like that. So she's crying like she

(55:38):
screams hysterically and she's turning. Someone clipped that, cut it,
clipped it, screenshot it and posted it. And I saw
that and that's when it broke me.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Yeah, I can only imagine.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
I saw a picture of my kids hugging me after
I lost, and that it still breaks me today.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
I can't. I can't see it.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
When you look back on that time. After that, obviously,
he won the third fight. Do you think that that
bit it shake you? Obviously losing those two fights and
then going into that Buckley fight where you knew you're
kind of up against it, right, Like.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
I've lost to in a road of the same guy.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
He's not the champion anymore, but I know I can
work my way back. But when you're walking in there,
are you the same Kamara Wiseman? Are you still the
same to carry the same confidence against a young guy
who's on a run like Buckley was.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
I'm still the same, but the confidence is hurting, Yeah,
because when you're all you've ever known is success, and
that's not what it's been lately. It's it's a human trading.
It messes with you. But I know who I am
on the inside because I built myself. Yeah, no one
had to tell me. I go all the way back

(56:59):
to junior year when I finally started to learn how
to cut weight in high school a little bit. No
one had to tell me, Hey, you need to go
for a run at night because it's gonna help your cardio,
and not only help your cardio, it's gonna help you
get that weight down. You know, No one had to
tell me that I just knew that's what you're supposed
to do. Okay, I want to be better than everybody.
I have to do a little more than everybody. No

(57:20):
one had to really tell me that. And so with
all of that, me knowing that I built myself to
this juggernaut that I felt like in my head, and
then now that that wasn't it's being questioned. Of course,
it starts to mess with you a little bit. Am
I still that guy? I'm still that guy. I know

(57:42):
I put the work in. I know. You know when
when you know my lady wanted me to just come,
come eat and relax with us. No, I'm not gonna
eat that. You know what I'm gonna I'm gonna go
in the garage and get on this air done. Yeah,
I'm gonna get a little extra in. Yeah I know
I'm still that guy. But yeah, you start to kind
of question it, like ah man. And then not only that,

(58:04):
you know you have c we love to do promo.
We know the promos. They gonna show you the highlights
of this dude's knocking someone's head off over and over
and over and over to where it starts to come
drive that doubt even deeper and deeper and deeper. But
I just I just had to have solidin you know,
and that hey, whatever happens happened.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Is that why you were so emotional after the wind
because it touched me. It made my heart flutter when
you were sitting at the press conference postfight, and it
kind of broke down like in terms.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Of like it was almost like a relief.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
DC Man. We know what it's like to be in
a funk, you know that. And like I said, I'm
spiritual enough now to where And even Folkes said this, like,
adversity is a blessing. It is as much as as
much as we hate it, as as much of an
annoyance as it is for us, adversity is a blessed.

(59:01):
Having the ability to have things, whether positive or negative,
happen to you. That's a blessing because now you get
to feel something. There's some people who can't feel any
of that. Can you imagine being going their minds to
where they just want to want to feel that the
pain of being hit or pinched or punched, As weird

(59:23):
as it sound, they just want to feel that sensation,
but they can't feel that. And so adversity is a
blessing to the point where I was just in that moment,
just knowing that I'm going through so this much adversity,
and as a father, the biggest gift for me now
is being able to because kids, of course kids sometimes

(59:46):
they can choose whether they listen to you or not,
but they can't ignore the action. They can't ignore what
you did. They can't ignore the fact that, yes, you
drop three and everyone's writing you off like you can't
win again. Yeah, you can't win again.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Oh he's washed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I remember hearing that only was washed. He's washed, And
I'm like, I know I'm this guy. Still I still
put the work in. I know I'm still not going
to cut that corner. I still do the work. And
so to go out there and have that actually happen
and show that you you can still show that you
are that guy after so much time. Yeah, it was very,

(01:00:25):
very emotional. And the fact that my daughter wasn't able
to be there at that fight too, because that was
one of the lessons for you to see that. Yeah,
the fact that she wasn't able to be there and
feel it, because it's a different electricity when you're there.
And yeah, that that all of that combinations is it

(01:00:46):
is personally what I'd gone through just it was was
a mountains. When that mountains just gets slipped, even if
it's for five seconds or five minutes that day, it
came off.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
So many people don't recognize the struggles that fighters and
people in the public eye go through outside of what
they see. They can appreciate whenever they see a guy
like you, so strong on the outside, really open himself
up in a way that most aren't used to seeing.
You said, kids sometimes don't listen. You did a lot
of listening in your career, especially early, and you had

(01:01:19):
two guys that really did make an impact on you.
Rashaan Evans obviously we've spoken about him a little bit,
and Anthony Johnson. Yesterday, I think you posted something saying, Anthony,
you're going, but we will miss you forever. What did
it mean for you to have two people in your

(01:01:40):
life early in your career to mold you into the
fighter in person you are that relates so closely to
you strong men, athletes, wrestlers, black men to go and
do what they did.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
To have Anthony and Rashada.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yeah, it was powerful. I mean, representation is serious. It's
a real thing. It's really really important because we can
anyone can tell you this or tell you that, but
until you see someone with your level of struggle and
the same struggle like you, that looks like you, that

(01:02:19):
it lets you know how one day, man, maybe I
can do this, Maybe I can be there one day.
And so coming in Rashad is extremely, not extremely Rashad
was instrumental and just getting me to switch over to
this sport. Yes, and and not And let's be honest,
Rashad was one of the first of what we are now. Yeah, yeah,

(01:02:46):
you know what I'm talking. Yeah, he's one of the
first to put it together. And so and so with
that that example, watching it over and over and just
I might not say much, but I'm I'm taking notes mentally,
I'm taking notes. I'm watching how he conducts himself. I'm
watching how he does these interviews. I'm watching how he

(01:03:08):
answers this question. I'm watching how he cares himself. I'm
watching how he prepares himself. And I'm picking. At that point,
I'm picking what I like that. I like that, I
don't really like that so much. I'm gonna use that.
I might use that. Rashotted and when the Black Zillion
started which is a team where I started with Anthony Johnson.
Of course was there Michael Johnson also another guy that

(01:03:31):
was very instrumental in my development, because me and Michael
Johnson probably have more rounds together than anyone. I mean
me and Michael. Michael was very very instrumental because he
was so fast, so fast, and he had no fear.
And so imagine a smaller guy just beating on me
for almost two years to where I learned enough to

(01:03:55):
where now I can't to bully him. And so yeah,
Michael Johnson very instrumental. Rashot Evans for the example that
he set, and not just the example that he set.
Rashad Evans told me, hey, I said, hey, man, I can't.
I don't know if I can come to Florida because
you know, I don't know. I gotta get a place
to live because I'm in the comforts of the Olympic

(01:04:16):
training center. We ain't get no money like that. I mean,
you wore a number one on team and you get
a little check, but that was nothing like that to
go get an own place and and live and just
train full time. And then I was getting presented with
an offer somewhere else. I was like, man, don't worry
about that, Just come and come down. You can live

(01:04:37):
with me. Now. Think about it. This is the first
time I've ever been starstrucking seeing Rashot Evans. Yeah, it's
a superstar that you only get to see on television.
And he's telling me, just come living me in my
in your house. Yeah, you superstar, come live with you. Yeah,
come live with me. And we knew each other, but

(01:04:57):
we didn't know each.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Other that well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yeah, just had that heart to where he would just
come live with me. Yeah. I moved to Florida, I
was living. I lived with Rashad for I think two
maybe almost two and a half three years wow. Living
with Rashad, getting access to Michael Johnson, Anthony Rombo Johnson,

(01:05:19):
which Anthony was. We had such a special, weird relationship
because Anthony don't talk much. Anthony didn't. It wasn't until
later on in life where Anthony kind of we were
able to break those emotional barriers to where Anthony would
show that. But before that, Anthony just is a guy
that would show up in the gym five minutes before
practice in jeans and a shirt and with his like

(01:05:43):
tights on it already under on, take him off, put
his gloves on, knock out a couple of dudes at
that practice. Straight from there, put his jeans right back
on without going to the shower, put his shirt off,
and leave the gym.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
That was Anthony Johnson and so getting being able to
see him and then watch him too. Anthony kme in office.
He was a big puncher, big guy, just excel in
the sport and spent a lot of time with our coach,
Henry Hoof, and Anthony really became who he was. Now
your fights with Anthony, I was at both of them.

(01:06:19):
I watched the first one, but I fought at the
second one in Buffalo, and I just I remember Anthony,
but obviously backstage watching that, I'm like, well, man, Anthony.
The first one, I'm like, Anthony really had a shot.
He has a shot here because somehow I don't know
how Anthony gets that left leg around the head, but

(01:06:40):
somehow he does. You know, it's such a big, stiff guy,
but that left leg wraps around your neck, and he
just had unbelievable power and so unfortunately he couldn't get
it done against you. I'm like, oh, man, Okay, that
guy's especially something else. And then I remember the second
time you guys were gonna fight. I was in the
UFC now and I was on that card as well,

(01:07:03):
and I just remember, you know, being there watching you
gout and that was a buffalo correct. Yes, So remember
watching you guys finished finish the fight and him dropping
that one as well. I think that was his last
one for a while when he think he kind of
walked away. But yeah, Anthony was special as well. And
I'm just now looking back at everything, just blessed that

(01:07:26):
I got to even nourish that relationship a little bit
before he passed.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
When he passed away, how did that affect you? Because
Anthony actually gave me something when he passed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
He gave me a watch.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
It's the craziest thing that I was a random call
and he said, Anthony left you a watch.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Yeah, how did that affect you? Losing? Because we saw
this big, powerful man and had no idea what he
was dealing with on the back end.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Yeah, it he left me out. He left me a necklace,
and he affected me a little bit. But like I
said earlier, or the one thing that I think it's
kind of weird, I don't want to say weird about me.
But it's a little different. Is It's almost like I
almost pre mourned situations. It's like I like to be

(01:08:14):
overly prepared.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Yeah, you knew he was sick.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
So when we found out that he was sick, because
remember Anthony was great, great, great, then boom lost a
bunch of weight, was going through something that when we
found out he was sick. At this point I started
to kind of, like I said, nourish that relationship a
little bit more. Come on, come over to the house.
Anthony will not only come over like it meant something
to me to invite Anthony Johnson over to my house

(01:08:39):
because Anthony Johnson was already a USC superstar when I
before I started fighting. Come to my house for him
to see that, Hey, this little kid that came in
the gym that didn't know how to do anything, now
is is has a house. Anthony came over and sat
down with a short pool and just kind of hung
out and just I wanted to get to what was

(01:09:02):
going on. I mean, you, yeah, I have been sick.
That doctor said they might know this, they might not that,
you know. So we spent a little bit of time together.
We started to get a little closer, and then he
was just sick. And so part of that process, I
started kind of this prepare, prepare myself. It's just it's

(01:09:22):
a weird thing to say, to even think, but just
my mind is wired that way to where I kind
of prepare myself a little bit and a little bit
to where when I got the call, actually I was
going to I got a text. I was actually going
to call him that day and said, hey, man, I'm

(01:09:42):
coming back in town. Remember we had talked about doing something. Hey,
when you want to come over to the house. Then
I get the text and I'm just like, oh no, yeah, no,
because how it doesn't make sense? Yeah, how uh someone
like specimen like that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Could just get destroyed by It's.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Just it's gone in no Timeue, It's gone. That didn't
make sense to me at that point, but it's I
almost kind of pre prepared myself. Yeah for that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
We're all gonna miss Anthony forever. A few quick ones
before I let you go tomorrow. Two daughters now, Fyonce.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Everything.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Life is just amazing in that regard. But you're very present.
I think that is like the most amazing thing about you. Like,
what does it mean to you? To be so present
because like you said, tennis practice, I'm there, maybe I'm
there changing diapers.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
Like what does that mean to you? To be so present?

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
It means a lot because I got that from my
first my first daughter, with everything you're all, yeah, I
I always knew I wanted to be a father. That
was a big thing for me. But because naturally my
father was there, my mother was there, and I just
see the importance of that. It's so important to where

(01:11:11):
I always wanted that, I wanted to be there. And
so now with my first daughter, she conscious, Being able
to just take her to the gym each and every
time with me and just have her sit there and
watch me was was man, it was amazing. I got

(01:11:33):
to take her to the gym with me from from
she was one to about five years old, when she
was ready for kindergarten. We had a routine. We go
to the gym. After I get done, go straight to
toys r us or Baby's are us back at the time.
At that time, we spent about thirty forty five minutes there.
I knew how to get in the car, I knew
what song to play. Boom, She's out, She's out, Boom.

(01:11:56):
I get home at this exact time, take her straight
up to her bed, let her sleep there. She's out
for two hours. She gets down, hot the food ready
for We had a routine down and so I just
and then once she started to grow. Because I used
to say when I was young, I used to say, Man,
if I ever become a dad, I want to just
miss the first two years. I want you to just

(01:12:16):
get me the kid when they can talk and do
all these things. But then when I went through that
process and you get to see them, never want to
miss that, you ever. You see them start to discover
their hands and play with their hands, and you hear
that first laugh, that real deep chuckle, and all of
these things created such a tie and such a bond
to where I'm like, oh, no, you have to be

(01:12:38):
present now. It's a it's a tough part because part
of getting that luxury.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
Is you have to work.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Means you have to work. And I would say that's
been the hardest thing is working and at the same
time trying to kind of present that balance because I've
heard some great men say, if you want to give
them everything, they have to understand Daddy's not.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Going to be make everything. Yes, you're not gonna be there,
You're not going to be around. That sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
And so that's that double edged sword because I can say, now,
I don't want to I don't want to leave. I
want to be there for everything. But what if it
comes an opportunity that they need me to provide for
but now they have to pass it up because I

(01:13:30):
didn't go do the work to provide for that. And
they don't want to hear that. No, no one wants
to hear nobody else. It's just this is an opportunity
for me. Daddy, can can I take advantage of this?
I'm sorry you can't because I.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
Ain't got it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
I ain't got it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
It can't be like that though, And.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
So yeah, that's the hard part from you right now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
And to ensure that it's podcasting, it's acting, it's fashion.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
You have so many different arms in the fire man.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Wait, don't say it like that, not like you the future,
but I'm saying you are one of the ones that
have a future television, broadcasting, podcasting, acting, fashion. You have
options to have built this life right knowing that, like
we said in the beginning, we're closer to the end

(01:14:15):
then the beginning when you look back with all these things,
what do you tell Kamara Rouswan that took a chance
and went to Florida.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Just work, stay consistent, and trust the unknown, because that's
the biggest thing that we can even fathom when you're
in that situation. And I tell this quick story. I
remember when there was a I think a five six

(01:14:50):
month stint where I wasn't living with at Rashad's house
and I was living with Michael Johnson and I'm one,
and oh, actually, yeah, I'm one, and oh I can't
get a fight because you know, at this point, people
just google you. Oh he's a wrestler, Now fight him.

(01:15:11):
I can't want to fight him. I couldn't get a
fight eight months, and I'd buy no money. I'm not
under the roof of Rashaan Evans where everything's taken care of.
And so I just remember on the walk one day
and I'm on the phone with my mom because I
used to just do morning walks because that was our
ritual at the old training center, you know, World team walks.

(01:15:32):
So I'm walking and I remember I'm on the phone
with my mom. I'm like, I'm not thinking I'm gonna
come home. I'm having to survive off of just eggs
and bread and I might need to come home, And
she said, I no, I just stayed the course. But
at that moment I couldn't fatho him. One day I

(01:15:53):
would be sitting with you know, two time hall of
two times led Champion, two division champion, and Hall of
Fame Dan, you callte me a talking about where I
am man and my opportunities and what I've done in
this sport. You can fathom that. And so if I
had any and I tell these fighters nowadays, it's just hey,
just work and trust that the work will get you there,

(01:16:17):
because that's the only way you could quantify the sacrifice.
The sacrifice it and also the success level. It's that
consistent work.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Comorrow, I ask everybody that's sitting down with me, when
it's all said and done, how do you want to
be remembered.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
This is something I'm struggling with now, right now, and
because I'm you know, we elevate each time, we elevate
to a certain point in life, to where you're exposed
to so much more than what you think. And to
this layer that I'm in now, I'm exposed to Pete different,
a different set of people and just understanding their minds

(01:17:01):
and how they are. And and it's tricky because I'm like, ah,
I don't want to be like that. I don't want
to be like that. To where I do. I have
met some people, but it's very few people that I've
met to where I can say they did right by me.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
And when I leave, when I'm done with this sport,
my mission and my goal right now. And I'm not perfect,
I'm not, but I want everyone that had an encounter,
had to bump in with me, had to run in
with me, did business or did anything with me. I
want them to say he did right by me.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
Coaches, you know, trainers, managers, everyone to say he did
right by me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Well, I tell you one thing, man, That's the message
I'll give people as we go forward as this Kamara
Rousman did right, but I mean guys. Kamorrow Rouswan, as
I said earlier, is one of the greatest fighters the
UFC has ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
Obviously, as you get to know more about him, it's one.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Of the most well spoken, well thought of and thoughtful individuals.
Like I said, father, champion, podcaster, actor, fashionista.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
He can do it all.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I thank you for joining me guys, until next time,
like subscribe and to tell you friends about my YouTube
channel and don't never miss an episode of The Daniel
Cormier Show.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
Until next time, Peace,