Jason reacts to the opening day of Las Vegas NBA Summer League including Mavericks top pick Cooper Flagg's debut against Bronny James, Dalton Knecht, and the Los Angeles Lakers. He also discusses impressive games from Ryan Nembhard and Oklahoma City Thunder guard Nikola Topic as well as what he expects from Bronny in terms of the NBA.
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(01:52):
All right, well, good to hoops tonight. You're at the volume.
Happy Thursday, everybody hopeful if you guys are having a
great week. We are here in Vegas for summerly but
a very fun first day. I got to hop on
with Kevin O'Connor as well as a buddy of mine,
Doma Rangula, who is a big Lakers fan, and we
talked a bunch of stuff. At the top of the
Western Conference, some Lakers, some Clippers, some hierarchy stuff in
(02:13):
the Western Conference. I recommend you guys had over to
check that out. I'm excited today to get into the
first set of Summer League games. Unfortunately, Dylan Harper with
a late scratch with a groin injury. VJ. Edgecombe late
scratch as well. I believe a wrist or a hand
injury of some kind. So we're gonna be primarily focusing
in on the Cooper Flag versus Bronnie James showdown, which
(02:34):
was got to a really fun start. Obviously, Bronny comes
out guns blazing, hitting shots, and Cooper Flag gets a
big dunk. He tries to dunk on somebody at one
point for a miss. There's a potential Bronny game winner
that goes off the iron at the buzzer. It was
really fun first game of Summer League. I'm excited to
dive into that. We're gonna again. I'm gonna be primarily
focusing on that game. I have a couple of other
(02:56):
thoughts on Nicolo topicch and just how him and Ryan
and Mhard kind of represent a basketball concept that I've
always been a big believer in. But we're just gonna
break down those games tonight and then we'll get out
of here. You guys are the Joe before we get started.
Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. Don't miss any
more of our video follow me on Twitter and underscore jcnlts.
You guys, don't mis show announcements. Don't forget about our
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(03:16):
It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and
a review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on
our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok.
Make sure you guys follow us there. And then, last
but not least, keep dropping mail bag questions in our
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throughout the rest of the season. Remember we kind of
changed our format there, so just on our full episodes
under the comments, just put mail bag with the colon
(03:40):
write your question. We'll get to those once a week
throughout the remainder of the year. All right, let's talk
some basketball. So you know, I thought that game was
such a fun showcase of Cooper Flag's versatile basketball talent.
We've had all these quotes come from the organization. Jason
Kidd himself talking about wanting to put Cooper Flag in
(04:01):
all these different situations and wanting to make him uncomfortable,
putting him on the ball as a shot creator, just
making him do all of these kind of different basketball things,
and that really is how you maximize a talent like
Cooper Flag. There's gonna be some big picture concerns. We
saw some of his difficulty dealing with Darius Beasley and ISO.
(04:23):
You had kind of a rough switch hunting rep late
in the game against col Swider. We're gonna talk about that.
It's obviously got some stuff he's got to work out,
but right out the gates, this is quite possibly one
of the best NBA ready basketball players that you'll find
near the top of the draft. So many of the
guys that we see here are guys that have otherworldly potential,
(04:46):
and we'll see whether or not Cooper Flag can achieve
some of that big picture potential. But in terms of
just being a NBA ready basketball player, Cooper Flag is
about as ready for that situation as you can manage imagine.
So let's dive into that concept here a little bit.
We've been talking about this a lot lately. What does
it mean to just be like a good basketball player.
(05:08):
That's changed over the years. Over the years because of
the way things have changed schematically, specifically the influx of
transition pushes as well as switching schemes all of a sudden, defensively,
a player's versatility matters a lot more than whether or
not he's really good at protecting the rim or really
good at pressuring and opposing guard. Right Like, the game
(05:30):
has changed. It's become something where it doesn't matter if
you're Luka Doncic and you're really good at playing off
ball defense in a scheme for three playoff rounds of
all of a sudden, the Boston Celtics go, let's see
you guard the ball for seven games, and let's see
how that goes for you. Like, defensive versatility matters more
than ever. And then, you know, we talked a lot
(05:51):
about the idea of advantage creation as it pertains the
guys like Tyrese Haliburton and Nicola Jokich and all these
guys that can set you up with these situations where
you have a defender sprinting at you or some kind
of advantage in some way, shape or form. Well, it
goes beyond that star power talent. We saw that today
in summerly. NBA schemes with the kind of action that
(06:14):
you run can generate advantages. Transition pushes can generated advantages.
Defense can generate man advantages. Right, biggest play of the game,
Cooper flag makes a help side rotation, gets a block
at the rim, pushes the ball the other way, doesn't
force the issue. I thought all night long, Cooper just
did such a great job of not forcing the issue
(06:36):
in traffic and just making the easy kickout reads that
were available, makes a nice drop off pass to Ryan
Emhart hits a three. All of a sudden, the Mavericks
have a one point lead that originated off of defense.
That created an advantage, and from there Cooper played with
the advantage to find the next hog in that train,
(06:57):
which was Ryan Emhard wide open on the right wing.
The game of basketball has changed beyond anything having to
do with the elite advantage creation, defense, transition, high quality
offensive structure can set basketball players up with advantages. And
that's where being a really good basketball player comes into
(07:18):
the equation, because once you have that advantage, it's not
about the set, it's about just playing basketball. Meaning if
you're open, make take the shot. If the guy sprinting
at you drive to close out, when the help rotation comes,
make the next pass in line. Okay, they didn't make
a help side rotation or there isn't an easy kick
(07:41):
out raad. Now you might have to go into a
little bit of a tougher bit of shot making in
the short range out of a closeout, something along those lines.
We're going to talk about that with respect to Brownie soon.
But like, once you have the advantage, it becomes about
just playing basketball. I remember it. Coach a shout out
Doug Demorage is an amazing job. He coached. He was
the coach at the high school that I started, Coach
Nett in Tucson four years ago. And I remember he
(08:03):
used to always stop practice every time kids got robotic
after they'd run a set, because he'd be like, hey,
once we're running the set to get that first advantage
from there, just play basketball. Stop being a robot. Just
play basketball. And that Cooper flag, to me is the
quintessential definition of just a modern basketball player. Yes he's big,
(08:25):
but he played point guard. Today he is literally doing everything.
He's running inverted action with Ryan Demhart, He's setting screens
for Ryan Heimert. He's bringing the ball off the floor
against ball pressure. He's attacking out of the post, he's
running horn sets, he's doing all of these different things.
Because he can do all of these different things. I
(08:46):
was so impressed by just his overall basic fundamentals, something
simple like handling ball pressure. He got you know, Brownie
for various stretches of the game. He got Darius basically
for various stretches of the game, face a ball bunch
of different types of defenders that did a bunch of
physical ball pressure against him. They double teamed him on
the first possession off of the opening tip, and just
(09:09):
rock solid protecting the basketball, making like really aggressive moves
and then retreat dribbles, which are a great way to
attack ball pressure. Guys up in your business, attack retreat
that creates separation. Once that initial separation is there, that's
when you can get into your bag. And you saw
that against Baislely a couple times where he'd make that
first move retreat dribble. Then all of a sudden, it's
like crossover, crossover, crossover, because now he's got Baslely on skates.
(09:31):
Because he got that initial separation off of that first move.
He actually picked up like three or four fouls against
Baslely in ball pressure situations because he just attacked him.
When a physical player gets up in your business, go downhill,
attack him and force the ref to make a call.
Even when he faced smaller players that tried to get
(09:53):
up underneath him, he just protected the ball. Well, we're
gonna talk about this a little bit more with Nicola topic,
but like one of the big things forigger ball handlers
is you're not going to get a first step super
easily against good perimeter defenders. Cooper Flag is going to
face a lot of dudes who are between six to
four and sixty six that are really quick laterally that
are going to beat him to spots. So one of
(10:15):
the ways that bigger ball handlers deal with that is
by handling the ball through contact and using that physical
leverage to get separation. You rip to the left, Baslely
slides over and he beats you to the spot. You
spin and you just maintain control of the basketball through
the spin, and as you're spinning, you get to swing
(10:37):
that left shoulder around and hit the guy and then
you can keep going downhill. We've seen so many examples
of that with Nicolo Topitch over the course of his
first few Summer League games. We've seen that with Cooper today.
I was so impressed by him handling the ball through
that contact. This is what Luka Doncis has been doing
in the NBA for all these years so far. He
gets that first little bit of an angle the quicker
(10:59):
player over, he spins off, or he bumps him with
that shoulder, and as Cooper gets bigger and stronger, he's
gonna be able to do that even more effectively. I
was so impressed by the job he did just handling
ball pressure, not forcing the issue when he gets into
the paint. This was a big one for me all
game long, when he would get into the paint and
the defense would react to him, he was just spraying
(11:21):
the ball out to the perimeter, especially in transition. He
was like, again, this is a big transition athlete. He
could have forced the issue. He had one early in
the game where he took a little mid range jumper
along the right baseline where he was kind of pushing
it a little bit, but for the most part, he
got in there and made simple kickout reads. That's what
you want to do when you're playing on a really
good basketball team that has D'Angelo Russell and Anthony Davis
(11:44):
and is going to have Kyrie Irving when he returns,
that has the talent that this team has. PJ. Washington
spotting up in the corner. You know, Derek Lively on
a lobby threw a beautiful lob in crunch time that
the big man just couldn't handle. You know, it's one
of those things where that you can tell he's a
natural at making these basketball reads. And again, if a
(12:06):
good coach and a talented roster is going to consistently
set him up with those types of advantages, he's going
to instantly thrive. Again, we'll talk about the big picture
issues surrounding, like what it's going to be like when
he's attacking matchups and stuff like that, but his fundamentals
are so rock solid and it comes with the highlights. Right.
We saw the big block and help side that led
(12:27):
to the lead changing three, the big dunkin transition, which
it looked like he kind of lost his footing and
he took off from super far away, but he just
powered up and he's got such long arms that he
was able to get all the way to the rim.
The highlights are there, but it's the fundamental stuff that's
going to make him a really impact basketball player right away.
This is what lines up so well with Dallas in
(12:49):
their timeline. They need him to be good right away,
and he's going to be his low man rotations alongside Ad.
Ady's going to be up at the level in ball screens,
swiping out a pull up shooter. The role man's going
to get behind him sometimes. Cooper Flagg is super well
equipped both as a defensive decision maker and as a
vertical athlete to make those rotations at the rim and
(13:12):
to be impactful as a help side defender playing in
action with an advantage alongside Ad with the Angela. Russell
is a very good pick and roll shot creator in
the regular season. We were talking about him after he
signed as like a very poor man's James Harden. That's
why he has so much utility in this league. Look,
I rooted for him with the Lakers for a while.
(13:34):
I had my frustrations with him in the postseason and
just his general kind of lack of attention to detail
on defense. That dude is a He greases the wheels
on offense with him with Anthony Davis, Cooper is going
to play with an advantage, and I know he's going
to be great with that right away. Now, what is
the ceiling? What is the determining factor of the wide
(13:56):
range of outcomes in Cooper Flagg's career. I put it
down on the two things. One is the jump shooting.
He had a lot of clean catch and shoot looks
today that he missed. He had like a pull up
three and a ball screen against a drop coverage that
he missed. That was a good look that he just missed.
He had like an ISO three at the top of
the key where the defender was playing off of him
(14:17):
and baiting him into the shot, and he kind of
like hesitated, hesitated, hesitated, and finally took like a really
exaggerated like hesitation pull up that he ended up missing.
The jump shot is going to be a major swing
factor for him whether or not he becomes a good,
great elite jump shooter. That is going to be a
major swing factor in how high Cooper Flag's ceiling ends
(14:41):
up eventually reaching. The second piece that I wanted to
highlight here was his ISO kind of like switch hunting process.
So he had a couple of pretty bad post up
reps against Darius Baisley where he struggled to get separation
and he took like some really heavily contested fadeaways that
he missed. Non't get me wrong, if he gets to
(15:01):
the point as a jump shooter where he can hit
super tough fadeaways, there's still some utility there, but like
he was getting like really tough shots in that situation.
Then there was a late possession where because I was
saying with Jackson up in the stands and we were
talking about how like he needs to get somebody different
switched onto him, which again is going to be his
switch hunting process, which we'll talk about in a minute.
But so he ends up getting Cole swider and instead
(15:24):
of like pulling Cole out and then trying to beat
him off the dribble, he kind of attacked him right
away without much momentum, and he ended up settling for
a pretty tough fade away in the lane that he
missed badly off the side of the rim, and that
Cole got a great contest on. That's the thing with him,
similar to the conversations we had we've had with Hatum,
the elite first step quickness, the just like straight up
(15:48):
S tier athleticism to get separation from peak athletes like
that sort of stuff is going to be more difficult
with Cooper in his career. And so how does Cooper
reach the level of a top tier shot creator without
top tier you know, athletic scoring traits like the ability
to just dust everyone off the dribble or Lebron James
(16:11):
power or whatever it might be that leads that ability. Well,
it's about process at that point. So, for instance, Darius
was one of the few guys on the floor that
actually could hang with him athletically. Cooper should almost never
unless it's a late clock like rescue possession, like, oh
there's four on the clock, I have to shoot. If
(16:33):
it's not that, he should never look to attack the
one guy on the floor who's physically equipped to handle him.
And this is where it becomes about process. I believe
in his passing ability and I don't think again, we
were talking about S tier traits like is he Derek
Rose quick No? Is he Lebron power No? So obviously
(16:56):
that's going to give him the ability to score on
the best players in the world one on one. But
he absolutely can be an impactful one on one shot
creator against players that he has an advantage against. And
so that's where the process comes into the equation being
deliberate about picking the right guys to attack once you
have that matchup, getting to a spot where it makes sense.
(17:17):
So for instance, the cleared side post ups with Bronni,
that makes some sense because it's an easy spot on
the floor for him to back down and it has
some room to make some moves. Right the Cole Swider play.
After he gets that switch, Cole can't move his feet.
That's the one thing that's keeping him from sticking in
the league, even though he can really shoot the balls
super well. Right, So if Cooper just pulls him out
(17:38):
to the perimeter then breaks him down off the bounce,
that's where he's going to be able to get some
higher quality shots instead of some of these tougher turnaround
fadeaways like he got in those spots. So like his
ISO switch hunting process, just being more deliberate about getting
favorable matchups. And then two, just overall his jump shooting.
Those are going to be the major swings for him
(18:00):
in his potential ceiling as an NBA player. But really
nice first showing for Cooper again, one perfect. The jump
shooting was a little rough, but I thought he showcased
his hyper versatile basketball talent and I believe he's just
going to be an impact, winning level, a winning type
of player in the NBA literally day one as a
(18:20):
Dallas Maverick, and that's just really rare for a player
of his talent level. Ryan Nemhart, what a joy watching
another Nemhard brother just pick a team apart in the
mid range. We were having a great time watching him today.
You know, him and Nicolo Topitch represent another kind of
big picture basketball idea for me involving you know, we
(18:42):
were talking about being a basketball player, right, Well, there
aren't that many players in the league that are really
comfortable running the action, right, like being the guy at
the beginning of the possession. Right Like if we break
down offense into a three step process, advantage creation, advantage
extending and play finishing, that first part when the defender
(19:05):
is loaded up on you and the defense is loaded
up on the strong side, that first bit of breaking
down the defense is often the hardest part, and it
comes down to in action. It comes down to two things,
right like one being able to score in the action
as it's covered traditionally right, So if a ball screen
is being covered two on two, meaning all the off
(19:26):
ball defenders are staying home, and the on ball guy
is chasing over the top, and the big man's in
some kind of drop coverage, he's defending the action two
on two, Right, That means if the defense runs a
deep drop and the guy is chasing over the top,
the read is the mid range shot it is to
score in the ball screen. Then when you score in
(19:49):
the ball screen enough times the defense reacts by bringing
that third defender into the action. That's when you have
the ability to get the defense in rotation and start
playing driving kick basketball. And that's when your basketball players
become much more valuable. Right, And both Nicole Topitch over
the course of his entire summer league debut to this point,
(20:10):
and then I thought Ryan Demhar did a great job
of demonstrating it today, the ability to hit drop coverage shots.
I know they've become unpopular with the discussion surrounding analytics
in the NBA, and like, no one is sitting here
saying that you want to take you know, a twenty
mid range pull ups and floaters over the course of
a game as like a consistent shot diet, but like,
(20:32):
hey man, if they're going to guard pick and roll
two on two, you've got to show the ability to
score the basketball in order to turn that ball screen
into an advantage play. And it's in different ways, right
Like for Nicoleo Topitch, it's a lot of like these
big man spins like we were talking about with Cooper
Flag like dribbling through contact using his size and his power.
He had another one of those like super nice little
(20:54):
floaters in the lane off of a spin in drop
coverage today. And with Topitch what you saw too is
like with these crazy whipping cross court passes. He had
like a lefty hook whip to the right corner that
led to an extra pass up to the right wing
for an open three that went in today with nemhard
super solid following a handling the ball pressure. And then
(21:18):
for him, it's just that shiftiness in the mid range,
that ability to get to all these different types of
short range bits of shot making. The release looks a
lot like his brothers, right, Like it's like compact, but
like the elbow goes a little further out then you
typically see from a jump shooter. But he just was
super comfortable getting to his spots there and then was
(21:38):
still able to play with that advantage. Right, Like Cooper
Flag on that late transition push hits Ryan Nemhart on
the right wing, he knocks down just a simple catch
and shoot three that ends up being a big shot.
I was talking with Jackson in the uber on the
way back from the game, and like, if Ryan Nemhard
can find a role in the NBA, it just like
(21:58):
legitimizes some of my like big picture basketball beliefs because
the ability to handle ball pressure effectively get a team
into action and then make basic reads with the mid
to short range shot making you need to score on
ball screens. It's just such a valuable NBA trade specifically
for like with Nicolet Topich for Okace, Like we saw
(22:21):
a ball handling a shortage in this postseason. That was
a big part of why they struggled with Indiana. It
was all j dub or Shay that was comfortable creating action. Right,
Nicolet Topich can be a guy who comes into the
game and can run action for them that can get
them that initial advantage. And then again, the big thing
with him compared to like a Josh Kitty if you remember,
was spot up shooting right and Nicole Topich tonight two
(22:44):
wide open looks on the left wing down the stretch.
Both of them just clean in off the back rim.
Like that's gonna be the big thing for him. If
Nicole topic can hit those wide open catch and shoot threes,
it will allow him to also play off the ball,
and then obviously there's defensive question mark with him as well.
But I really enjoyed watching him and Ryan Nemhard today.
(23:05):
One thing before we get out of here, Bronnie James.
I have talked a lot about Bronnie over the course
of the last couple of years, and the fact that
he just has this obvious NBA role, which is he's
a very good athlete at the guard position with good size,
strength and athleticism. You saw him Stonewall Cooper flag on
(23:28):
a post up a couple times today, right, like just
defending with that size and strength, he plays bigger than
he actually is. And then to play as a off
ball guard, meaning yeah, if the ball gets swung to
you in second side action, sure whatever, you can run
a ball screen, but he's primarily going to be catching,
like with an advantage taking catch and shoot threes, driving
(23:49):
clothes out. That was always what I saw Bronnie's career as.
And then there was a quote and it was I
want to say it was after last season. I think
it was after last season. It was several months ago,
but someone asked Bronnie, like, what do you view as
your role as an NBA player, And he straight up
came out and said, like, I want to be an
(24:12):
on ball guard. And I was immediately concerned because I'm like,
I just don't see him as even close to ready
for that yet. And it was abundantly clear last year.
It's still clear today. You saw him today, like throwing
pocket pass as a touch early where the big man
(24:32):
just hasn't really gotten into a position where he can
do anything yet. There was a play on his third
or fourth pocket pass where he didn't see the low
man and so he threw the pocket pass like kind
of as an over the top pass, and it just
got picked off. And like he missed a skip to
the right side, he took a floater and a ball
screen where the defender was draped on his backside, and
it's like he just didn't even see that the defender
(24:53):
was behind him. And again this does not mean I
don't think Bronnie can be an NBA player. I like,
I truly believe, with his work ethic, with the resources
that he has, with the natural athleticism that he has,
that he can, by the end of his rookie contract,
become a guy who can play bench guard minutes in
(25:14):
the NBA, defending and playing up with an advantage. I
do believe, I truly believe he has that role available
to him as an NBA player. I think he is
miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles,
miles and years and years and years and years and
years away from being a guy who can like be
the offensive initiator for an NBA offense. And I do
(25:36):
think it'll be a crossroads for him in his careers
whether or not he's willing to accept that reality and
make that adjustment. We talked about Ryan Demhart earlier, and like,
Ryan's not going to be some like he doesn't have
the unbelievable traits to be like a high volume guy
for like a starting unit for a serious NBA team,
(25:58):
But I'm talking about him as a potential backup guard
in the NBA for a team like the Dallas Mavericks.
The gap between how competent Ryan Nemhard looked initiating offense
in Bronnie James was a chasm. The gap between Cooper
flag initiating offense, handling ball pressure, spraying the ball out
(26:21):
in Bronnie James was a chasm. And Cooper's barely starting
to begin that part of his of his repetition as
a on ball guy, like he was starting to do
towards the end of the year at Duke Right, Like
he's just a natural ad it. Ryan DeMar has been
doing it his entire life. Bronnie is not close to
(26:44):
that type of player as a natural player. His natural
gifts lie in what he can do defensively, what he
can do as an athlete, and what he can do
off ball as a guard. And for the record, like,
I don't know why people are under the impression that
you can't get buckets or score the basketball playing as
an off ball player. There are entire archetypes of players
(27:05):
that do this. Cam Johnson, Mike Porter Junior. We've been
talking about those guys over the course of the last
couple of weeks. You don't think that you can score
the Aaron Nee Smith what some of the stuff he
did for Indiana this year. You don't think you can
score the basketball or like put up shots as an
off ball player. If he gets really good at knocking down,
catch and shoot threes, he speeds up his release, gets
(27:26):
a little bit more lyft on it, and adds like
a bunch of on ball skills as like a closeout attacker,
Like he had a little step back jump shot over
Cooper Flagg. I like that move driving a close out
for him. One of the things with playing with an
advantage is it simplifies the reads. Right, So like if
you're playing against a loaded up defense and the big
comes up to the level or is in a higher
(27:48):
drop and the strong because you're attacking from the strong side,
the defense is loaded up, there's so much more you
have to interpret. That's why he didn't see the back
pressure on the floater. That's why he didn't see the
skip pass on that turnover on the pocket pass, right.
It's because there's just so much congestion and there's so
many things you have to interpret in those moments. When
you're attacking with an advantage, the defense is loosened, you're
(28:09):
attacking from the weak side, you're attacking in space, all
of a sudden, your ability to interpret that becomes a
lot easier. And that's where I still think there is
scoring potential for him there. I'm not saying that Brownie
can't average double figures in the NBA one day. I'm
just saying I don't see him as a primary on
ball shot creator, and I do think part of his
development is going to be accepting that reality and building
(28:31):
out quick decision making a lot of like like like
a lot of just attacking with an advantage, meaning like
a lot of like King of the Court stuff where
you're playing one on one against the guy sprinting at you.
Those are the areas where he can build out potential
as a score I just don't see him as being
a primary on ball weapon in the NBA. All right, guys,
(28:52):
that is all we have for tonight is always We
sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
We have Yovann coming on tomorrow morning to do a
bunch of Lakers stuff, so we'll talk Lakers there. Adam
Mars from DMVR, my good friend is coming on the
show tomorrow in the evening. For those of you guys
in the Vegas area. We're going to be recording at
the win. That's gonna be fun. And then obviously Saturday night,
(29:14):
we hope we're gonna hopefully get an opportunity to talk
to Dylan Harper. I'm hoping that he plays at some
point this weekend or VJ Edgecomb as well. Hopefully we
have some more of the top guys to react to
at that point, but we've got a Jampac weekend. Again,
as always, I appreciate you guys for supporting us and
supporting the show. We'll see you tomorrow morning. What's up guys.
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
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(29:35):
if you guys would take a second and leave a
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(01:52):
All right, well, good to hoops tonight. You're at the volume.
Happy Thursday, everybody hopeful if you guys are having a
great week. We are here in Vegas for summerly but
a very fun first day. I got to hop on
with Kevin O'Connor as well as a buddy of mine,
Doma Rangula, who is a big Lakers fan, and we
talked a bunch of stuff. At the top of the
Western Conference, some Lakers, some Clippers, some hierarchy stuff in
(02:13):
the Western Conference. I recommend you guys had over to
check that out. I'm excited today to get into the
first set of Summer League games. Unfortunately, Dylan Harper with
a late scratch with a groin injury. VJ. Edgecombe late
scratch as well. I believe a wrist or a hand
injury of some kind. So we're gonna be primarily focusing
in on the Cooper Flag versus Bronnie James showdown, which
(02:34):
was got to a really fun start. Obviously, Bronny comes
out guns blazing, hitting shots, and Cooper Flag gets a
big dunk. He tries to dunk on somebody at one
point for a miss. There's a potential Bronny game winner
that goes off the iron at the buzzer. It was
really fun first game of Summer League. I'm excited to
dive into that. We're gonna again. I'm gonna be primarily
focusing on that game. I have a couple of other
(02:56):
thoughts on Nicolo topicch and just how him and Ryan
and Mhard kind of represent a basketball concept that I've
always been a big believer in. But we're just gonna
break down those games tonight and then we'll get out
of here. You guys are the Joe before we get started.
Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. Don't miss any
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(03:16):
It's also super helpful if you leave a rating and
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Make sure you guys follow us there. And then, last
but not least, keep dropping mail bag questions in our
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under the comments, just put mail bag with the colon
(03:40):
write your question. We'll get to those once a week
throughout the remainder of the year. All right, let's talk
some basketball. So you know, I thought that game was
such a fun showcase of Cooper Flag's versatile basketball talent.
We've had all these quotes come from the organization. Jason
Kidd himself talking about wanting to put Cooper Flag in
(04:01):
all these different situations and wanting to make him uncomfortable,
putting him on the ball as a shot creator, just
making him do all of these kind of different basketball things,
and that really is how you maximize a talent like
Cooper Flag. There's gonna be some big picture concerns. We
saw some of his difficulty dealing with Darius Beasley and ISO.
(04:23):
You had kind of a rough switch hunting rep late
in the game against col Swider. We're gonna talk about that.
It's obviously got some stuff he's got to work out,
but right out the gates, this is quite possibly one
of the best NBA ready basketball players that you'll find
near the top of the draft. So many of the
guys that we see here are guys that have otherworldly potential,
(04:46):
and we'll see whether or not Cooper Flag can achieve
some of that big picture potential. But in terms of
just being a NBA ready basketball player, Cooper Flag is
about as ready for that situation as you can manage imagine.
So let's dive into that concept here a little bit.
We've been talking about this a lot lately. What does
it mean to just be like a good basketball player.
(05:08):
That's changed over the years. Over the years because of
the way things have changed schematically, specifically the influx of
transition pushes as well as switching schemes all of a sudden, defensively,
a player's versatility matters a lot more than whether or
not he's really good at protecting the rim or really
good at pressuring and opposing guard. Right Like, the game
(05:30):
has changed. It's become something where it doesn't matter if
you're Luka Doncic and you're really good at playing off
ball defense in a scheme for three playoff rounds of
all of a sudden, the Boston Celtics go, let's see
you guard the ball for seven games, and let's see
how that goes for you. Like, defensive versatility matters more
than ever. And then, you know, we talked a lot
(05:51):
about the idea of advantage creation as it pertains the
guys like Tyrese Haliburton and Nicola Jokich and all these
guys that can set you up with these situations where
you have a defender sprinting at you or some kind
of advantage in some way, shape or form. Well, it
goes beyond that star power talent. We saw that today
in summerly. NBA schemes with the kind of action that
(06:14):
you run can generate advantages. Transition pushes can generated advantages.
Defense can generate man advantages. Right, biggest play of the game,
Cooper flag makes a help side rotation, gets a block
at the rim, pushes the ball the other way, doesn't
force the issue. I thought all night long, Cooper just
did such a great job of not forcing the issue
(06:36):
in traffic and just making the easy kickout reads that
were available, makes a nice drop off pass to Ryan
Emhart hits a three. All of a sudden, the Mavericks
have a one point lead that originated off of defense.
That created an advantage, and from there Cooper played with
the advantage to find the next hog in that train,
(06:57):
which was Ryan Emhard wide open on the right wing.
The game of basketball has changed beyond anything having to
do with the elite advantage creation, defense, transition, high quality
offensive structure can set basketball players up with advantages. And
that's where being a really good basketball player comes into
(07:18):
the equation, because once you have that advantage, it's not
about the set, it's about just playing basketball. Meaning if
you're open, make take the shot. If the guy sprinting
at you drive to close out, when the help rotation comes,
make the next pass in line. Okay, they didn't make
a help side rotation or there isn't an easy kick
(07:41):
out raad. Now you might have to go into a
little bit of a tougher bit of shot making in
the short range out of a closeout, something along those lines.
We're going to talk about that with respect to Brownie soon.
But like, once you have the advantage, it becomes about
just playing basketball. I remember it. Coach a shout out
Doug Demorage is an amazing job. He coached. He was
the coach at the high school that I started, Coach
Nett in Tucson four years ago. And I remember he
(08:03):
used to always stop practice every time kids got robotic
after they'd run a set, because he'd be like, hey,
once we're running the set to get that first advantage
from there, just play basketball. Stop being a robot. Just
play basketball. And that Cooper flag, to me is the
quintessential definition of just a modern basketball player. Yes he's big,
(08:25):
but he played point guard. Today he is literally doing everything.
He's running inverted action with Ryan Demhart, He's setting screens
for Ryan Heimert. He's bringing the ball off the floor
against ball pressure. He's attacking out of the post, he's
running horn sets, he's doing all of these different things.
Because he can do all of these different things. I
(08:46):
was so impressed by just his overall basic fundamentals, something
simple like handling ball pressure. He got you know, Brownie
for various stretches of the game. He got Darius basically
for various stretches of the game, face a ball bunch
of different types of defenders that did a bunch of
physical ball pressure against him. They double teamed him on
the first possession off of the opening tip, and just
(09:09):
rock solid protecting the basketball, making like really aggressive moves
and then retreat dribbles, which are a great way to
attack ball pressure. Guys up in your business, attack retreat
that creates separation. Once that initial separation is there, that's
when you can get into your bag. And you saw
that against Baislely a couple times where he'd make that
first move retreat dribble. Then all of a sudden, it's
like crossover, crossover, crossover, because now he's got Baslely on skates.
(09:31):
Because he got that initial separation off of that first move.
He actually picked up like three or four fouls against
Baslely in ball pressure situations because he just attacked him.
When a physical player gets up in your business, go downhill,
attack him and force the ref to make a call.
Even when he faced smaller players that tried to get
(09:53):
up underneath him, he just protected the ball. Well, we're
gonna talk about this a little bit more with Nicola topic,
but like one of the big things forigger ball handlers
is you're not going to get a first step super
easily against good perimeter defenders. Cooper Flag is going to
face a lot of dudes who are between six to
four and sixty six that are really quick laterally that
are going to beat him to spots. So one of
(10:15):
the ways that bigger ball handlers deal with that is
by handling the ball through contact and using that physical
leverage to get separation. You rip to the left, Baslely
slides over and he beats you to the spot. You
spin and you just maintain control of the basketball through
the spin, and as you're spinning, you get to swing
(10:37):
that left shoulder around and hit the guy and then
you can keep going downhill. We've seen so many examples
of that with Nicolo Topitch over the course of his
first few Summer League games. We've seen that with Cooper today.
I was so impressed by him handling the ball through
that contact. This is what Luka Doncis has been doing
in the NBA for all these years so far. He
gets that first little bit of an angle the quicker
(10:59):
player over, he spins off, or he bumps him with
that shoulder, and as Cooper gets bigger and stronger, he's
gonna be able to do that even more effectively. I
was so impressed by the job he did just handling
ball pressure, not forcing the issue when he gets into
the paint. This was a big one for me all
game long, when he would get into the paint and
the defense would react to him, he was just spraying
(11:21):
the ball out to the perimeter, especially in transition. He
was like, again, this is a big transition athlete. He
could have forced the issue. He had one early in
the game where he took a little mid range jumper
along the right baseline where he was kind of pushing
it a little bit, but for the most part, he
got in there and made simple kickout reads. That's what
you want to do when you're playing on a really
good basketball team that has D'Angelo Russell and Anthony Davis
(11:44):
and is going to have Kyrie Irving when he returns,
that has the talent that this team has. PJ. Washington
spotting up in the corner. You know, Derek Lively on
a lobby threw a beautiful lob in crunch time that
the big man just couldn't handle. You know, it's one
of those things where that you can tell he's a
natural at making these basketball reads. And again, if a
(12:06):
good coach and a talented roster is going to consistently
set him up with those types of advantages, he's going
to instantly thrive. Again, we'll talk about the big picture
issues surrounding, like what it's going to be like when
he's attacking matchups and stuff like that, but his fundamentals
are so rock solid and it comes with the highlights. Right.
We saw the big block and help side that led
(12:27):
to the lead changing three, the big dunkin transition, which
it looked like he kind of lost his footing and
he took off from super far away, but he just
powered up and he's got such long arms that he
was able to get all the way to the rim.
The highlights are there, but it's the fundamental stuff that's
going to make him a really impact basketball player right away.
This is what lines up so well with Dallas in
(12:49):
their timeline. They need him to be good right away,
and he's going to be his low man rotations alongside Ad.
Ady's going to be up at the level in ball screens,
swiping out a pull up shooter. The role man's going
to get behind him sometimes. Cooper Flagg is super well
equipped both as a defensive decision maker and as a
vertical athlete to make those rotations at the rim and
(13:12):
to be impactful as a help side defender playing in
action with an advantage alongside Ad with the Angela. Russell
is a very good pick and roll shot creator in
the regular season. We were talking about him after he
signed as like a very poor man's James Harden. That's
why he has so much utility in this league. Look,
I rooted for him with the Lakers for a while.
(13:34):
I had my frustrations with him in the postseason and
just his general kind of lack of attention to detail
on defense. That dude is a He greases the wheels
on offense with him with Anthony Davis, Cooper is going
to play with an advantage, and I know he's going
to be great with that right away. Now, what is
the ceiling? What is the determining factor of the wide
(13:56):
range of outcomes in Cooper Flagg's career. I put it
down on the two things. One is the jump shooting.
He had a lot of clean catch and shoot looks
today that he missed. He had like a pull up
three and a ball screen against a drop coverage that
he missed. That was a good look that he just missed.
He had like an ISO three at the top of
the key where the defender was playing off of him
(14:17):
and baiting him into the shot, and he kind of
like hesitated, hesitated, hesitated, and finally took like a really
exaggerated like hesitation pull up that he ended up missing.
The jump shot is going to be a major swing
factor for him whether or not he becomes a good,
great elite jump shooter. That is going to be a
major swing factor in how high Cooper Flag's ceiling ends
(14:41):
up eventually reaching. The second piece that I wanted to
highlight here was his ISO kind of like switch hunting process.
So he had a couple of pretty bad post up
reps against Darius Baisley where he struggled to get separation
and he took like some really heavily contested fadeaways that
he missed. Non't get me wrong, if he gets to
(15:01):
the point as a jump shooter where he can hit
super tough fadeaways, there's still some utility there, but like
he was getting like really tough shots in that situation.
Then there was a late possession where because I was
saying with Jackson up in the stands and we were
talking about how like he needs to get somebody different
switched onto him, which again is going to be his
switch hunting process, which we'll talk about in a minute.
But so he ends up getting Cole swider and instead
(15:24):
of like pulling Cole out and then trying to beat
him off the dribble, he kind of attacked him right
away without much momentum, and he ended up settling for
a pretty tough fade away in the lane that he
missed badly off the side of the rim, and that
Cole got a great contest on. That's the thing with him,
similar to the conversations we had we've had with Hatum,
the elite first step quickness, the just like straight up
(15:48):
S tier athleticism to get separation from peak athletes like
that sort of stuff is going to be more difficult
with Cooper in his career. And so how does Cooper
reach the level of a top tier shot creator without
top tier you know, athletic scoring traits like the ability
to just dust everyone off the dribble or Lebron James
(16:11):
power or whatever it might be that leads that ability. Well,
it's about process at that point. So, for instance, Darius
was one of the few guys on the floor that
actually could hang with him athletically. Cooper should almost never
unless it's a late clock like rescue possession, like, oh
there's four on the clock, I have to shoot. If
(16:33):
it's not that, he should never look to attack the
one guy on the floor who's physically equipped to handle him.
And this is where it becomes about process. I believe
in his passing ability and I don't think again, we
were talking about S tier traits like is he Derek
Rose quick No? Is he Lebron power No? So obviously
(16:56):
that's going to give him the ability to score on
the best players in the world one on one. But
he absolutely can be an impactful one on one shot
creator against players that he has an advantage against. And
so that's where the process comes into the equation being
deliberate about picking the right guys to attack once you
have that matchup, getting to a spot where it makes sense.
(17:17):
So for instance, the cleared side post ups with Bronni,
that makes some sense because it's an easy spot on
the floor for him to back down and it has
some room to make some moves. Right the Cole Swider play.
After he gets that switch, Cole can't move his feet.
That's the one thing that's keeping him from sticking in
the league, even though he can really shoot the balls
super well. Right, So if Cooper just pulls him out
(17:38):
to the perimeter then breaks him down off the bounce,
that's where he's going to be able to get some
higher quality shots instead of some of these tougher turnaround
fadeaways like he got in those spots. So like his
ISO switch hunting process, just being more deliberate about getting
favorable matchups. And then two, just overall his jump shooting.
Those are going to be the major swings for him
(18:00):
in his potential ceiling as an NBA player. But really
nice first showing for Cooper again, one perfect. The jump
shooting was a little rough, but I thought he showcased
his hyper versatile basketball talent and I believe he's just
going to be an impact, winning level, a winning type
of player in the NBA literally day one as a
(18:20):
Dallas Maverick, and that's just really rare for a player
of his talent level. Ryan Nemhart, what a joy watching
another Nemhard brother just pick a team apart in the
mid range. We were having a great time watching him today.
You know, him and Nicolo Topitch represent another kind of
big picture basketball idea for me involving you know, we
(18:42):
were talking about being a basketball player, right, Well, there
aren't that many players in the league that are really
comfortable running the action, right, like being the guy at
the beginning of the possession. Right Like if we break
down offense into a three step process, advantage creation, advantage
extending and play finishing, that first part when the defender
(19:05):
is loaded up on you and the defense is loaded
up on the strong side, that first bit of breaking
down the defense is often the hardest part, and it
comes down to in action. It comes down to two things,
right like one being able to score in the action
as it's covered traditionally right, So if a ball screen
is being covered two on two, meaning all the off
(19:26):
ball defenders are staying home, and the on ball guy
is chasing over the top, and the big man's in
some kind of drop coverage, he's defending the action two
on two, Right, That means if the defense runs a
deep drop and the guy is chasing over the top,
the read is the mid range shot it is to
score in the ball screen. Then when you score in
(19:49):
the ball screen enough times the defense reacts by bringing
that third defender into the action. That's when you have
the ability to get the defense in rotation and start
playing driving kick basketball. And that's when your basketball players
become much more valuable. Right, And both Nicole Topitch over
the course of his entire summer league debut to this point,
(20:10):
and then I thought Ryan Demhar did a great job
of demonstrating it today, the ability to hit drop coverage shots.
I know they've become unpopular with the discussion surrounding analytics
in the NBA, and like, no one is sitting here
saying that you want to take you know, a twenty
mid range pull ups and floaters over the course of
a game as like a consistent shot diet, but like,
(20:32):
hey man, if they're going to guard pick and roll
two on two, you've got to show the ability to
score the basketball in order to turn that ball screen
into an advantage play. And it's in different ways, right
Like for Nicoleo Topitch, it's a lot of like these
big man spins like we were talking about with Cooper
Flag like dribbling through contact using his size and his power.
He had another one of those like super nice little
(20:54):
floaters in the lane off of a spin in drop
coverage today. And with Topitch what you saw too is
like with these crazy whipping cross court passes. He had
like a lefty hook whip to the right corner that
led to an extra pass up to the right wing
for an open three that went in today with nemhard
super solid following a handling the ball pressure. And then
(21:18):
for him, it's just that shiftiness in the mid range,
that ability to get to all these different types of
short range bits of shot making. The release looks a
lot like his brothers, right, Like it's like compact, but
like the elbow goes a little further out then you
typically see from a jump shooter. But he just was
super comfortable getting to his spots there and then was
(21:38):
still able to play with that advantage. Right, Like Cooper
Flag on that late transition push hits Ryan Nemhart on
the right wing, he knocks down just a simple catch
and shoot three that ends up being a big shot.
I was talking with Jackson in the uber on the
way back from the game, and like, if Ryan Nemhard
can find a role in the NBA, it just like
(21:58):
legitimizes some of my like big picture basketball beliefs because
the ability to handle ball pressure effectively get a team
into action and then make basic reads with the mid
to short range shot making you need to score on
ball screens. It's just such a valuable NBA trade specifically
for like with Nicolet Topich for Okace, Like we saw
(22:21):
a ball handling a shortage in this postseason. That was
a big part of why they struggled with Indiana. It
was all j dub or Shay that was comfortable creating action. Right,
Nicolet Topich can be a guy who comes into the
game and can run action for them that can get
them that initial advantage. And then again, the big thing
with him compared to like a Josh Kitty if you remember,
was spot up shooting right and Nicole Topich tonight two
(22:44):
wide open looks on the left wing down the stretch.
Both of them just clean in off the back rim.
Like that's gonna be the big thing for him. If
Nicole topic can hit those wide open catch and shoot threes,
it will allow him to also play off the ball,
and then obviously there's defensive question mark with him as well.
But I really enjoyed watching him and Ryan Nemhard today.
(23:05):
One thing before we get out of here, Bronnie James.
I have talked a lot about Bronnie over the course
of the last couple of years, and the fact that
he just has this obvious NBA role, which is he's
a very good athlete at the guard position with good size,
strength and athleticism. You saw him Stonewall Cooper flag on
(23:28):
a post up a couple times today, right, like just
defending with that size and strength, he plays bigger than
he actually is. And then to play as a off
ball guard, meaning yeah, if the ball gets swung to
you in second side action, sure whatever, you can run
a ball screen, but he's primarily going to be catching,
like with an advantage taking catch and shoot threes, driving
(23:49):
clothes out. That was always what I saw Bronnie's career as.
And then there was a quote and it was I
want to say it was after last season. I think
it was after last season. It was several months ago,
but someone asked Bronnie, like, what do you view as
your role as an NBA player, And he straight up
came out and said, like, I want to be an
(24:12):
on ball guard. And I was immediately concerned because I'm like,
I just don't see him as even close to ready
for that yet. And it was abundantly clear last year.
It's still clear today. You saw him today, like throwing
pocket pass as a touch early where the big man
(24:32):
just hasn't really gotten into a position where he can
do anything yet. There was a play on his third
or fourth pocket pass where he didn't see the low
man and so he threw the pocket pass like kind
of as an over the top pass, and it just
got picked off. And like he missed a skip to
the right side, he took a floater and a ball
screen where the defender was draped on his backside, and
it's like he just didn't even see that the defender
(24:53):
was behind him. And again this does not mean I
don't think Bronnie can be an NBA player. I like,
I truly believe, with his work ethic, with the resources
that he has, with the natural athleticism that he has,
that he can, by the end of his rookie contract,
become a guy who can play bench guard minutes in
(25:14):
the NBA, defending and playing up with an advantage. I
do believe, I truly believe he has that role available
to him as an NBA player. I think he is
miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles,
miles and years and years and years and years and
years away from being a guy who can like be
the offensive initiator for an NBA offense. And I do
(25:36):
think it'll be a crossroads for him in his careers
whether or not he's willing to accept that reality and
make that adjustment. We talked about Ryan Demhart earlier, and like,
Ryan's not going to be some like he doesn't have
the unbelievable traits to be like a high volume guy
for like a starting unit for a serious NBA team,
(25:58):
But I'm talking about him as a potential backup guard
in the NBA for a team like the Dallas Mavericks.
The gap between how competent Ryan Nemhard looked initiating offense
in Bronnie James was a chasm. The gap between Cooper
flag initiating offense, handling ball pressure, spraying the ball out
(26:21):
in Bronnie James was a chasm. And Cooper's barely starting
to begin that part of his of his repetition as
a on ball guy, like he was starting to do
towards the end of the year at Duke Right, Like
he's just a natural ad it. Ryan DeMar has been
doing it his entire life. Bronnie is not close to
(26:44):
that type of player as a natural player. His natural
gifts lie in what he can do defensively, what he
can do as an athlete, and what he can do
off ball as a guard. And for the record, like,
I don't know why people are under the impression that
you can't get buckets or score the basketball playing as
an off ball player. There are entire archetypes of players
(27:05):
that do this. Cam Johnson, Mike Porter Junior. We've been
talking about those guys over the course of the last
couple of weeks. You don't think that you can score
the Aaron Nee Smith what some of the stuff he
did for Indiana this year. You don't think you can
score the basketball or like put up shots as an
off ball player. If he gets really good at knocking down,
catch and shoot threes, he speeds up his release, gets
(27:26):
a little bit more lyft on it, and adds like
a bunch of on ball skills as like a closeout attacker,
Like he had a little step back jump shot over
Cooper Flagg. I like that move driving a close out
for him. One of the things with playing with an
advantage is it simplifies the reads. Right, So like if
you're playing against a loaded up defense and the big
comes up to the level or is in a higher
(27:48):
drop and the strong because you're attacking from the strong side,
the defense is loaded up, there's so much more you
have to interpret. That's why he didn't see the back
pressure on the floater. That's why he didn't see the
skip pass on that turnover on the pocket pass, right.
It's because there's just so much congestion and there's so
many things you have to interpret in those moments. When
you're attacking with an advantage, the defense is loosened, you're
(28:09):
attacking from the weak side, you're attacking in space, all
of a sudden, your ability to interpret that becomes a
lot easier. And that's where I still think there is
scoring potential for him there. I'm not saying that Brownie
can't average double figures in the NBA one day. I'm
just saying I don't see him as a primary on
ball shot creator, and I do think part of his
development is going to be accepting that reality and building
(28:31):
out quick decision making a lot of like like like
a lot of just attacking with an advantage, meaning like
a lot of like King of the Court stuff where
you're playing one on one against the guy sprinting at you.
Those are the areas where he can build out potential
as a score I just don't see him as being
a primary on ball weapon in the NBA. All right, guys,
(28:52):
that is all we have for tonight is always We
sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
We have Yovann coming on tomorrow morning to do a
bunch of Lakers stuff, so we'll talk Lakers there. Adam
Mars from DMVR, my good friend is coming on the
show tomorrow in the evening. For those of you guys
in the Vegas area. We're going to be recording at
the win. That's gonna be fun. And then obviously Saturday night,
(29:14):
we hope we're gonna hopefully get an opportunity to talk
to Dylan Harper. I'm hoping that he plays at some
point this weekend or VJ Edgecomb as well. Hopefully we
have some more of the top guys to react to
at that point, but we've got a Jampac weekend. Again,
as always, I appreciate you guys for supporting us and
supporting the show. We'll see you tomorrow morning. What's up guys.
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
(29:35):
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it. The volume
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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