Jason reacts to Game 3 of the NBA Finals between the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder, explaining how Tyrese Haliburton changed his game, plus how T.J. McConnell and Bennedict Mathurin were able to make such big contributions vs. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and company.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(01:46):
co slash audio. Well, hoops tonight, you're at the volume
heavy Thursday. Every buddy, hope all of you guys are
having a great week. Well, we went with Colly Coward
(02:06):
last night. I wanted to take the time today to
kind of dig a little bit further into the x's
and o's and talk about some of the stuff that
I learned from watching some more film this morning. As
those of you guys who followed us over to playback,
we rewatched the fourth quarter last night. I dug into
some other portions of the game a little deeper, specifically
the run in the early second quarter as well. I
wanted to dive into just how the Pacers pulled off
(02:28):
that big win last night, and then after that looking
forward in the series, what we can expect as we
move forward for both of these teams now that we
only have a few games left in the matchup. You
guys know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to
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So show up for the live show and then just
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them in the mail bag at the tail end. We
will definitely be doing a mail bag at the tail
(03:10):
end of tomorrow night's show.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
All right, let's talk some basketball.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So before we actually move into it, I figured this
would be the perfect time for our Microsoft Course Correction
segment because we had two guys last night and TJ
McConnell and Ben Mathern that I think just deserve a
special spotlight for the work that they did off the
bench in these specific runs that I think won the
game for the Pacers. So welcome to Course Correction, brought
to you by Microsoft. Just like star players and teams
(03:35):
navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers today are under immense
pressure to get things right. They must rise to the occasion,
turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions,
simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy responsible AI. And
when you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles
to face. In this segment, we will highlight the player
every week that has risen to the occasion when his
(03:57):
team needed him whatever challenge you're facing, micro Soft empowers
you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This
week's Players of the Week are TJ McConnell and Ben Mathron.
University of Arizona A lumps. For those of you guys
who forget, I'm from Tucson, Arizona, still currently live there.
Big Arizona fan here. I used to be a bigger
(04:18):
fan of the UVA before excuse me, bigger fan of
college basketball in general, before I started working in this business.
I was lamenting that to a buddy of mine at
the gym the other day. Like ever since I got
into the NBA and it's become my profession, I have
had way less time to watch college hoops, which has
been something that's made me a little sad. Maybe I'll
be able to find some more balance with that over
(04:39):
the years.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
But I grew up.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You know, when as I was growing up, the UVE
was the team that I rooted for. It was you know,
if you asked me who my favorite team was, it
wasn't any NBA team Like the Suns didn't do a
great job marketing down to Tucson, even though we were
an hour and a half down the road. It was
the University of Arizona. That was what we rooted for.
It's a huge cultural.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Thing here, just like it is in any.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Other college town for those of you guys who live
in college towns and you know what it's like. And
I was lucky to get to play with a lot
of these guys that came through the system. TJ McConnell
has always been one of my favorite players. I've told
this story on the show before. It's been a very
long time, but TJ and I I played pick up
with and against him at various points at the u
of A. And my first time meeting TJ in person,
(05:25):
I was this young, just asshole, for lack of a
better word, and I was playing in a game against
TJ and some U of A guys, and I was
bringing this like crazy competitive energy to the game because
I was like viewing it as an opportunity to try
to like test myself, you know that sort of thing.
And I was just being a dumb young basketball player.
(05:47):
But I vividly remember in that environment a lot of
the guys kind of playing the too cool for school,
like whatever, we're just out here messing around kind of thing.
And there was one guy on the other team that
had no desire to things that way and that wanted
to win that game at all costs. And I saw
the competitive fire in TJ's eyes in that game when
(06:09):
we were playing against each other and he was talking
shit to me and all that kind of stuff. Totally
was like an exposure to the fact that, like TJ
is one of the APEX competitors that you'll meet, he
is a guy that that regardless. I always have thought
that a guy who approaches a random pickup game with
an insane amount of competitive energy even though he is
(06:31):
a pro, even though he is a guy that has
played at in the college level, at the overseas level,
in the NBA level, like that, to me is an
indicator of a guy that has a competitive motor that
is there regardless of surrounding circumstances. And I just remember,
like I remember being struck by TJ the first time
I met him, just by how intense he was. And
(06:51):
I do think that that has been a huge driving
force behind what has made him a ten year NBA
pro and has just been one of my favorite players
to root for over the years. But I've been fortunate
to see a bunch of u A guys come through Tucson,
and it was obviously a lot of fun last night
to watch TJ and Ben to uf alums put a
huge mark on an NBA Finals game that the Pacers
(07:15):
basically won that game with two runs. There was a
twenty five to ten run in the early second quarter
that took them from down eight to up seven, and
then there was a twenty three to eleven run in
the early fourth quarter that put them from down five
to up seven, and those were really the stretches that
swung this game back towards Endy. The early second quarter
(07:37):
run was mostly TJ McConnell. Again, We've talked about this
a lot in the series preview, but he has one
of like TJ is actually one of the better athletes
in the league when it comes to getting straight line
speed and changing direction. At straight line speed, he can
bring the ball out the floor with pace and he
just kind of sets it up for a strong right
hand drive and he counters it with a right to
(07:58):
left crossover and then he spins, he gets cut off,
and he just brings a lot of downhill power in
those drives and it just makes him very, very difficult
to guard and like, there were a lot of plays
like there was one where he dropped off the ball
to Pascal Siakam for an easy layup. During that run
where he just was staring down Cason Wallace like head
to head and just got into the lane. And that
(08:21):
ultimately is the thing that breaks down any defense is
the ability to beat your primary defender and to draw
and help. And on this play he beat Cason Wallace
and drew and Alex Caruso, which opened up a little
drop off to Pascal Siakam and he got an easy layup.
And there were a lot of opportunities for guy like
he had a big transition drive where he drew a foul.
He had another drive out of pick and roll where
(08:45):
he beat Caseon Wallace towards the baseline. He just was
consistently getting past his man, which was making all of
these positive trickle down effects. And guys were getting open
on cuts I talked about Siakam, Ben Mathern got open
on a cut, Obie Toppen got open running his lane
and transition on the left side of the floor. That
was when TJ got one of his inbound steals. If
you remember, he stole the inbound pass immediately after scoring
(09:08):
like TJ was just all over the place in that
early second quarter run and brought the life back into
the arena after Oklahoma City threw a hell of a
punch in the first quarter and left Indiana just a
tiny bit shook at that point, but TJ dug him
out of it and got him.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Back into the game.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And then on the other end of the floor, Jdubb
took and missed a couple of tough mid range pull
ups the two man game with Hartenstein and Chet. That
was a too big look for the Thunder that didn't
work in this game. Again, I talked about that after
Game one, like I don't really the different looks that
Oklahoma City has are more or less irrelevant to me
because each one of them can succeed. It's just are
they going to do the job or are they not?
(09:44):
And this was an example where the two big look
didn't work. They switched the two man game at the
top of the key and forced Chat into a tough
fade away that he missed. It was just in general
a cold spell for Oklahoma City. Indiana jumped and took
the lead there and then in the early fourth quarter
it was Ben Matherin again a twenty three to eleven
run that took them from down five to put him
(10:05):
up seven. Ben Matherin, we talked about him before the series,
is another one of those guys that has that size
and athleticism to get to his spots against this Oklahoma
City defense. I talked about this a little bit last
night with Colin and we talked about it on playback.
But the if you look at Nie Smith, Neie Smith
is a very good athlete, but he doesn't handle the
ball like TJ or Ben, not close right, And Nemhard
(10:27):
is a great ball handler, but he's not not anywhere
near the athlete that TJ McConnell and Ben Mathern are.
And so TJ and Ben bring that combination of like
kind of apex athletic traits and also the ability to
handle the basketball that brings a real problem for Oklahoma
City to be able to handle. And like I know,
a TJ doesn't really have the reputation of being that
type of athlete.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I think he is.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I think he's very big and strong and is a
very strong, like straight line speed guy that can change direction.
I think that's an elite athletic trade and that is
what has allowed those guys to be successful against a
very very good perimeter defense from Oklahoma City. But we
discussed Ben before the series as a guy that could
be a real scoring boost for this Pacers team, and
(11:09):
he got a bunch of buckets. In that early fourth
quarter stretch, he drove into Jdubb's chest and spun off
of him and got an and one floater. He had
this ridiculous shot and drop coverage where he like softly
fed a left handed layup up off the glass. That
was just a remarkable piece of shot making. That's a
shot that the vast majority of even NBA players are
(11:30):
going to overcook off the glass and probably end up missing,
and Ben mather and made it. He had a pull
up three versus drop coverage along the right side of
the floor. He had several pull up jump shots in
the game, and if you watch him, he just gets
such great lift and that's really the thing for him,
Like if he can just get to his spot and
rise up, these thunder players literally aren't big enough to
(11:51):
really get a great contest on him there, and he
was able to get some really good pull up jump
shot looks in this game. And then TJ had another
stretch in that in that run where he he had
a driving layup where he ran like kind of a
decoy ballscreen on the left side and got Casen to
think he was gonna switch. Instead he just hit the
Jets with one of those right handed drives and got
a layup. Immediately stole the inbounds pass and got another layup. Like,
(12:14):
those guys were just massive in this game. Ten points,
five assists and five steals for TJ. McConnell, twenty seven
points in an NBA Finals game on just twelve shots
for Ben mathurin just huge NBA Finals moments for those
two guys. And if they win the title, obviously as
a local Tucson guys in Arizona guy, it will be
(12:35):
a game that I look back on very fondly. That's
it for this week's course correction. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions
empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions,
sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With
Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey
with confidence, finding innovative solutions, and reaching new possibilities. Visit
Microsoft dot com Slash Challengers to learn more. It's worth
(13:00):
mentioning that in the fourth quarter that during that run
their defense was incredible as well. The big thing that
really started to have some effect was just overall ball denials.
There was a possession where Nemard had a quality denial
of Shay on a sideline out of bounds where he
was trying to get a post up and because they
didn't throw it to him and ended up getting worked
(13:21):
around to j Dubb for a miss.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
There were multiple plays.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Where guys like got denied and they tried to back
cut out of the denial and then part and Sign
or someone else like threw a pass on a back
door cut to try to get them open against the
denial that led into turnovers. So like, lots and lots
of success from ball denials, lots and lots of success
from just overall ball pressure. We're gonna talk about it
in a minute, but I thought Oklahoma City really looked fatigued.
(13:47):
Down the stretch defense was a huge element of those
fourth quarter runs as well. Now down the stretch once again,
in classic Pacers fashion, a little bit of everybody right
Tyres Halliburton, who all night long started just taking the
I thought he came out the first couple minutes a
little passive, but hit the jets there in the middle
of that first quarter, and just did a great job
all night of just taking the conceited coverage beating looks
(14:09):
that he wasn't taking for the first three quarters of
Game two. It's not on every possession. Sometimes they beat
him over the top of the screen. He wasn't able
to get some clean looks. But all throughout this series,
again in the drop coverage, he's had mildly contested pull
up jump shots coming off of ball screens and mildly
contested floaters going downhill in ball screens. All against variations
of drop coverage. Those shots have been there for him,
(14:32):
and he just didn't take them for the first three
quarters of Game two. Did a much better job tonight
of taking them, and he was making them tonight, So
not only was he keeping himself in a rhythm, but
he was actually providing some real scoring pop for his team.
But in the fourth quarter, hit a huge three at
the top of the key that broke a tie that
put them up by three. Late in the game, he
had a beautiful skip pass and pick and roll that
(14:52):
led to an Aaron Nee Smith three in the right corner.
Nie Smith hit a couple of massive threes in the
second half of this game, despite having we talk all
the time about just find a way to make a
play when you're having a rough night. And Nie Smith
was getting cooked by J. Dubb in io and in
ball screens all night long. He was missing shots. It
was like a really rough Nie Smith game. And he
(15:13):
just hit a couple of huge threes late and he
got a couple of big stops on Jdublade and who
the hell cares what happened before that. Pacers got the
win right, but really nice skip pass from Haliburton there.
I thought he actually missed another one that could have
gotten to Siakam three in the left corner where he
forced the ball to Turner instead, but Halliburton did a
really nice job down the stretch.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Nemhard hit two huge jumpers.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
There was a play where TJ McConnell just straight up
broke off Sga on an ISO, but he smoked the
layup on the tap The tap out that happened after
Nemhardt hill a pretty tough little mid range jump shot
over Chet. He had another one and dropped coverage. That
was a big shot in crunch time, Miles Turner, after
having a brutally bad game for three quarters, just getting
absolutely fried in is at the level coverage and missing
(15:57):
shots all over the floor, he Chet on a pocket
pass where he caught the ball and just got downhill
and then just bumped Chet off and Chet went flying
and he got a little easy layup. He blocked Chet
three times in the fourth quarter, twice at the rim
in another play at the three point line. Once again,
rough game for Miles for three quarters. Just find a
(16:18):
way to make a play. Now, we will remember Game
three as a game where Miles Turner made huge plays
and helped his team win, and no one's gonna care
about what happened in the first three quarters. It's such
as these were such classic examples of like, for you
young basketball players out there, no matter what happens in
the first quarter, no matter what happens in the second quarter,
no matter what happens in the third, no matter what
happens in the first half of the fourth quarter, Like,
(16:39):
just find a way to make a play and do
something to put your team in position to win, and
no one's gonna give a shit about what happened during
the remainder of that game.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Obi top in.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
A huge sequence, a two way sequence where he had
a tip dunk and then got a block. On the
other end, Tyres was running a guard guard screen on
the left side of the floor. He rejected the screen
and got great dribble penetration. And when you get great
dribble penetration trickle down effects. Right lou Dord has to
step over off of the weak side corner in low manhelp.
Alex Cruso, who's guarding Toppin, has to drop an account
(17:12):
for the corner. That opens up a runway for Obi
Toppen to just shoot down that right wing lane line
and he just gets up and throws down a massive
two handed dunk. They go down to the other end
down the stretch. The pacers were way way better with
their at the level coverages with their forwards. He at
the level coverage with Turner doesn't work. It's causing all
sorts of problems. We're going to talk about that in
(17:33):
a minute. But with Siakamen Topping in particular, they got
multiple stops on switches in actions that looked to attack
them with either JDub or Shay And the big part
of it was One of the problems they were having
in those hedges or in those switches with those forwards
is one either the on ball guy would lose contain
and share or JDub would just reject the screen, at
(17:54):
which case would be an automatic four on three, or
they would go off the screen and then just immediately
top In or split Siakam and get right downhill and
suddenly it would be another four on three. Those four
on threes have been a major issue for Indiana's defense
over the course of the last two games, but in
the fourth quarter, one of the things they were doing
the on ball guy was more strongly overplaying towards the
(18:17):
screen to make it so that Shay or Jadubb could
not reject the screen, Almost like an ice coverage where
you're like forcing him to go a certain way, except
for instead of in an ice coverage, you forced the
guard to go away from the screen. In this case,
they were overplaying him to the screen, and then the
guy Siakam or Topping weren't getting split Toppin was meeting
him a little further back. Siakam same thing, using his
(18:38):
length to contest. After the tip dunk, Toppin switched on
to j Dubb, slid his feet, kept his chest in
front of that shoulder, met Jdubb at the rim and
swatted his ass. Huge play down the stretch of that
game and then their defense. We talked a little bit
about it earlier, but after really struggling to guard Oklahoma
City for basically seven quarters row, they got the stops
(19:01):
they needed in that fourth quarter again Siakam in top
in those switches. Siakam locked up SGA and ISO twice,
once got him to pass out of a little step
back three attempt, another one where he contested a really
like a really nice contested ISO, like eighteen foot off
of the left elbow where he got to stop. He
also had a really sharp close out on Cruso on
a play where he had a foot in the paint,
(19:23):
passed went out to Cruso.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Crusoe looked open.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
We talked about this in the Knick series too, but
Siakam has been really good with his like help and
recover closeouts on the weak side. He got a really
good close out on Cruso that forced him to pass
out of what looked like in open three. They started
to snuff out specific actions we talked earlier about there
at the level coverages with their forwards. We won't go
any further into that, but they finally got to stop
on that SGA backscreen action. We talked about this in
(19:47):
game In game one, they had Shay backscreen for Cason Wallace.
Caseon Wallace got a wide open layup because Nemhar didn't
want to help off of SGA on screens. They ran
it again early in the fourth quarter tonight for Chet
SGA screen for him. Nemhar didn't want to help. Chet
got an easy layup out of it. They ran it
again in crunch time, and finally the Pacers snuffed it out.
(20:10):
Nemhard slid over and showed while it was one of
the biggs. I think it was Siakam, it might have
been Turner. I think it was Turner. Actually, Turner lingered
for just a second on Shay while Nemhard lingered for
just a second showing on the Chet backcut, and then
they recovered to each other's man shut down the action again.
That's what happens in these playoff series. As things progress,
(20:32):
you see things enough times, you start to kind of
snuff out the actions. You know what you're looking for,
what you're waiting for, and it all of a sudden
becomes a little bit more about getting one on one
buckets or where you can create an advantage because the
actions aren't working as well. And then in general ball
pressure and fatigue. You'll notice I've been pretty critical of
(20:53):
the Turner at the level coverages, especially in this series,
but I haven't been too worried about the ball pressure.
There's been some downsides where they've given up dribble penetration.
But the big difference between this team and Jaden McDaniels
is when Jada McDaniels would get beat, he's not as
quick footed to get back into the play. Nie Smith,
Nemhar tj. These guys are so quick footed that even
(21:15):
when they give up dribble penetration in their ball pressure,
they can pressure from behind and rush the ball handler
into making mistakes. I'm advocating with Turner for a deeper
drop coverage.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
We'll talk about that when we get a little bit
later into the show. But those that is a specific
issue that they were having with Minnesota, that Minnesota was
having where Shaye would beat ball pressure and then he
was just getting wherever he wanted on the floor for
the most part, Indy's been able to like actually cause
some issues with their dribble drive guys into rushing, into
making mistakes and turning the basketball over. And there's a
(21:46):
huge fatigue element to ball pressure in denials. And I
thought Oklahoma City looked tired down the stretch Shae in particular,
hands on knees, not fighting for loose balls like Shaye
looked really tired down the stretch of this game. That
is a cumulative wear and tear effect that comes from
that ball pressure. But once again for the Pacers, everybody
(22:06):
made plays and that continues to be the story for
this Pacers team. They have seven guys averaging double figures
for them in this series. Nobody's averaging twenty, but seven
dudes are averaging at least ten. Juxtaposed with a Thunder
team that has two dudes averaging twenty in five dudes
total averaging ten. They are just a They are just
(22:28):
a cumulative force of nature. On any given night, it's
somebody different doing something different. But they're just a remarkably
balanced basketball team. They as a team, forced a bunch
of turnovers, blocked a bunch of shots. They continue to
be one of my favorite playoff teams that I've ever watched.
I actually thought it was funny. I saw a comment
from you guys after last night's show where there are
(22:51):
a lot of Pacers fans that think that, like I
want the Thunder to win, that's not true. Like I
think the Thunder are going to win. I picked them
to win the series because you'd be foolish not to
given what we knew about the two teams coming in.
But like I find the Pacers to be a more
likable basketball team than the Thunder, I find the Pacers
(23:11):
to be a funner team to watch than the Thunder.
Me and my basketball pick is not the same as
what my basketball heart believes, so to speak, And I
will flatly say that the Pacers are one of my
favorite teams that I've ever watched, and I'll just freely
admit I have been rooting for them in this series.
(23:34):
It's just an authentic basketball feeling that I have when
I'm watching this team. I'm watching them and I want
them to win. So like that is that I believe
in the Thunder and I have so much respect for
the Thunder. And we're going to talk about the specific
reasons why I think they still deserve to be favored
in the series. But yeah, Like I'm sitting on the
(23:54):
couch and I find myself rooting for the Pacers because
they're just such an unbelievably likable basketball team that plays
such a beautiful brand of basketball. You've got a couple
of U of A guys on the roster that's obviously
gonna appeal to me in my sentimentality a certain amount, right, So,
like this is they They've just I think they've been
such such an excellent showcase for the next generation of
(24:17):
basketball fans to see what the best version of modern
basketball looks like. And I just really enjoyed watching them
in this playoff run on the Oklahoma City front. They
look to be in a really strong position for three quarters.
After Jadubb hit that little side step three at the
top of the key at the end of the third
quarter that put them up five, I thought they were
gonna pull that game out. It mostly came down to turnovers.
(24:37):
Their half court offensive rating wasn't good. I think it
was like a ninety three if I remember correctly, But
they were they were efficient in their specific actions. When
they didn't turn the ball over, they got good looks
and I'm sure that's what deag Naught will be talking
about when he watches the film and he talks to
his guys. He's gonna be like, look, when we don't
take when we don't turn the basketball over and we
get the ball through their defense, we get quality looks.
(24:59):
Oklahoma City shot the ball really well last night. Like
that's the other thing too, Like, if you're a Pacers fan,
you're looking for another upside, Like you won Game one
despite the insane amount of turnovers.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
You won Game three.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Despite the fact that Oklahoma City shot substantially better than
you did. There's a lot of upside there if you're
a Pacers fan looking for some optimism looking forward in
the series. But Oklahoma City did when they didn't turn
the ball over, they did get good looks. They were
very efficient in pick and roll. This is the in
this entire series, Oklahoma City has been extremely well, especially
in Game two and three. I should say Oklahoma City
(25:32):
has been very, very efficient attacking and pick and roll.
They have a lot of upside that they've been able
to identify through three games. They just can't turn the
ball over as much as they did. They they did
get away from their pet action like it's funny. Every
team has to have a pet action that they trust
in order to have success later in playoff series. And
I think the Shai Gilles Alexander ball screens where they're
(25:54):
attacking Miles Turner in space are really really good and
they're getting great stuff out of them. Even in the
fourth quarter, they got a wide open three for lou
Dort out of the left corner and out of that action,
and they should have got another wide open three for
lou Dort, but Chet missed a read off of a
short roll a catch. But like they consistently get four
(26:14):
on threes out of it because either the guy shows
too high and Shaye dumps it over the top and
that guy gets a four on three on the roll,
or Shay's just beating that that at the level show
from Turner because he's too slow to keep him in
front in space, or Shay's rejecting the screen and now
Turner is on the wrong side of the screen and
he's getting four on three. Anyway, they get a lot
(26:34):
of really good stuff out of that, but they didn't
spam it enough, like classic example, the one that Dort missed,
like Shaye runs the ball screen with chet top of
the key. They get a wide open three for lou
Dort out of it. So like textbook process and lou
Dort's been shooting the shit out of the basketball in
this series. Dort misses the three. So instead of being like,
we ran good process, got a great shot, let's go
(26:57):
back to it, they went right down the floor on
the next possession, shade it and see the ball they
went through. They went through Jadub and it's like, I
get it, Like Jadub was having success. He was attacking
knees Smith and having some success. But like, by far
the most reliable action for the Thunder in the series
has been Shaye attacking turner and ball screens at the
level they get great stuff out of it every single time.
And I didn't think they ran it nearly enough in
(27:19):
the fourth quarter. And that's the thing with young basketball players.
They struggle to identify what's working and replicate it, and
identify what's not working and get away from it. And
so I do think there was a little bit of
an execution misstep in that fourth quarter. Looking forward in
the series, again, as we talk about as series progress,
the low hanging fruit stuff becomes harder and harder to
come by, you know, unless you're playing the Knicks and
(27:40):
suddenly they play their worst transition defense and overall details
game in game six.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's kind of.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Unusual, but most for the most part, teams kind of
get a little better at identifying and staying in front
of that stuff as series progresses. As the series progresses,
and then actions get snuffed out right, and so all
of a sudden, it becomes what are your reliable, unguardable actions.
What are the things you can run that are guaranteed
to generate you a good shot in the half court
because they don't have a good option to defend it.
(28:07):
And I think Oklahoma City has a really reliable action
that they can go to to generate a good shot,
and it's that Shay high ballscreen with Miles Turner where
they're just consistently getting four on threes out of it.
I'm not sure Indy has established any one single action
that reliable. It's been kind of different stuff in every
different part of the game. It's very much like a
(28:28):
flow in a rhythm that Indiana gets that involves everybody.
So I still would make Oklahoma City a favorite to
win the series at this point, but to be clear,
we have officially entered into the Pacers have a great
chance to win this series territory. That's where we're at now.
You know, we always talk about like you got to
take it one game at a time, all the stuff
(28:48):
that you hear in press conferences when teams are just
saying all the meaningless platitudes that we hear.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
But it's true.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
It's one game at a time, Right, you play again
on Friday. If you beat the Thunder on Friday, you're
in an excellent position to win the series. It's two
days off between every game from that point forward. You'll
have two days off between Game five and Game six
back in Indiana, and that city will be on fire.
And you win one game in game six, suddenly you
win the championship. So everything centers around Friday. Win Friday.
(29:19):
The pathway is there for you to win the series.
All of a sudden. I think I'd make you a
favorite if you win on Friday. So it is incredibly achievable.
You did the job. You did the job to this point.
You stole home court advantage and you won one of
your home games. It's win two home games and the
trophy is yours. It is right there for the taking.
But as you know that expression that, like in baseball,
(29:43):
that momentum is only as strong as your next night
starting pitcher, the point being like, doesn't matter if you
won five games in a row or four games in
a row, doesn't matter, you know what positive momentum you've
built up. If the next dude who comes to town
has like a one hundred and two mile an hour
two seemer that he keeps down in the zone and
no one can hit, and he counters it with a
(30:03):
slider that everyone's swinging out of their shoes even though
it lands, you know, eighteen inches outside of the strike zone. Like,
if that is what's happening, and your dudes are all
swinging out of their shoes and they can't make contact,
no one cares about your momentum. No one cares about
what kind of like like vibe you've got going in
the dugout right. Similarly, in the NBA, momentum is only
as strong as, like, can you score against Oklahoma City's
(30:25):
defense when they really really tighten the screws, And as
we saw in the third quarter in particular, they can
tighten the screws on this Pacers team and cause problems
for him. I think they only had twenty points in
that quarter, and it was a lot of the same
stuff we saw in Game two, like super intense closeouts
that were kind of shaking Indiana spot up shooters.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
They went really cold.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
There is there's a level that Oklahoma City can get
too athletically, and I believe that they will reach that
point in Game four, understanding the desperation of the situation
for the majority of that game, and so I think
it's going to be a much much tougher game to win.
And in that setting, Oklahoma City has this really reliable
action they can go to at the top of the
key to get great shots. Not to mention just Shae
(31:06):
Iso is a relatively reliable action in this matchup, and
so it's gonna be tough. That's the challenge that Game
four is going to be the toughest game of the
series by far for the Pacers. I absolutely think they
can win it. I absolutely think they have a great
chance to win this series. But at this point, I
think Oklahoma City's defense at its ceiling has proven to
be a little bit better than Indiana's, and I think
(31:28):
they have a reliable action that they can go to
I think Oklahoma City is going to win Game four,
win Game five, and then win one of the next
two games. So I'm gonna stick with Oklahoma City in
six or seven. But the Pacers have done exactly what
we hoped they would do. They have put themselves in
a position to win this series coming into the series
despite it being one of the most substantial favorites in
(31:50):
recent NBA history. So shout out to the Pacers for
making this an entertaining series. One last note on that
action we talked about that high ball screen attacking turner
in space. I want to dive into this action just
a tiny bit further for just a couple minutes, and
then we'll be done. So why would you bring a big.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Up to the level.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
You bring a big up to the level to dissuade
a pull up shooter. So like, let's say you're playing Steph.
You don't want him coming off of screens and shooting
pull up three. So you need someone at the level
that can kind of like take away that shot right
or two to take away the runway right. So like
athletic guards that are really good dribble drive guys. A
lot of times you'll show at the level just so
that they can't curl the screen and get going. They
(32:30):
curl the screen and run into somebody before they can
get their momentum, and so it like stops them from
giving dribble penetration right or three to blitz get the
ball out of their hands.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
But the problem that the Pacers are having in this action,
and the reason why these shape ball screens with Chet
and Hartenstein that attack Turner in space have been so effective,
is that Turner's going up to the level and he's
not containing the ball and Shay's getting past him or
the role man's getting past him. The ball is getting
past Turner almost every time when he gets up to
(33:03):
the level, and so that literally defeats the purpose if
you're that defeats the purpose unless you're consistently getting the
ball out of Shay's hands. But Shae himself is dribbling
past Turner much of the time. Like there were a
couple plays in the second half where they were more
blitzy with Turner and he was super aggressive and he
forced Hey to get rid of the basketball. That's fine,
(33:24):
at the very least, you're forcing them to play four
on three without Shae in the action, but like, there's
way too many examples of Turner coming up to the
level and Shae's dribbling right around him, and so my
thing is keep pressure in him. But if Shay's gonna
get past him, if the ball's gonna get past him,
no matter what, you might as well have him at
the rim or closer to the rim. And so all
(33:46):
I'm advocating for is just running a deeper drop coverage
with Turner. Well, that have its issues, of course, Now
all of a sudden he's gonna have to deal with
someone coming downhill at him, but at least he's got
length to bother at the rim. Now you're gonna concede
a lot of pull up mid range jump shots in
drop coverage around the elbows, Okay, but I'd rather give
that up than some of the stuff they're getting out
(34:06):
of these four on threes, especially when Shay himself beats
the at the level coverage. And so my thing is like,
don't bring Turner up to the level unless he can
either contain the ball or force Shay to get rid
of it, and he hasn't been able to do that
in this series. So I would have him in more
of a deeper drop, or at least you're making his
length a factor at the rim, because again, like that
(34:27):
is the action they're gonna have to find a way
to guard. If they're gonna win this series, They're gonna
have to find a way to guard that SGA ballscreen
that attacks Miles Turner in space. All right, guys, It's
all I have for today is always to sincerely appreciate
you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We
will be back tomorrow night after the final buzzer of
Game four of the NBA Finals. I'm incredibly excited. It'll
(34:48):
be just me that night, me and Jackson. We're breaking
it down. We'll have a mail bag. We'll also head
over to playback and take questions and watch some film.
Really looking forward to Game four. I will see you
guys then. But some guys, as always, im preciate you
for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. They would actually
be really helpful for us if you guys would take
a second and leave a rating and a review.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I really appreciate it. The volume
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(01:46):
co slash audio. Well, hoops tonight, you're at the volume
heavy Thursday. Every buddy, hope all of you guys are
having a great week. Well, we went with Colly Coward
(02:06):
last night. I wanted to take the time today to
kind of dig a little bit further into the x's
and o's and talk about some of the stuff that
I learned from watching some more film this morning. As
those of you guys who followed us over to playback,
we rewatched the fourth quarter last night. I dug into
some other portions of the game a little deeper, specifically
the run in the early second quarter as well. I
wanted to dive into just how the Pacers pulled off
(02:28):
that big win last night, and then after that looking
forward in the series, what we can expect as we
move forward for both of these teams now that we
only have a few games left in the matchup. You
guys know the joke before we get started. Subscribe to
Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of
our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore JCNLTS. You
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(02:48):
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on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our social
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follow us there and the last but not least, if
you want any questions into our mail bags, member, we're
doing them at the tail end of our live shows,
So show up for the live show and then just
drop your questions in the chat and then we hit
them in the mail bag at the tail end. We
will definitely be doing a mail bag at the tail
(03:10):
end of tomorrow night's show.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
All right, let's talk some basketball.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So before we actually move into it, I figured this
would be the perfect time for our Microsoft Course Correction
segment because we had two guys last night and TJ
McConnell and Ben Mathern that I think just deserve a
special spotlight for the work that they did off the
bench in these specific runs that I think won the
game for the Pacers. So welcome to Course Correction, brought
to you by Microsoft. Just like star players and teams
(03:35):
navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers today are under immense
pressure to get things right. They must rise to the occasion,
turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions,
simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy responsible AI. And
when you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles
to face. In this segment, we will highlight the player
every week that has risen to the occasion when his
(03:57):
team needed him whatever challenge you're facing, micro Soft empowers
you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This
week's Players of the Week are TJ McConnell and Ben Mathron.
University of Arizona A lumps. For those of you guys
who forget, I'm from Tucson, Arizona, still currently live there.
Big Arizona fan here. I used to be a bigger
(04:18):
fan of the UVA before excuse me, bigger fan of
college basketball in general, before I started working in this business.
I was lamenting that to a buddy of mine at
the gym the other day. Like ever since I got
into the NBA and it's become my profession, I have
had way less time to watch college hoops, which has
been something that's made me a little sad. Maybe I'll
be able to find some more balance with that over
(04:39):
the years.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
But I grew up.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You know, when as I was growing up, the UVE
was the team that I rooted for. It was you know,
if you asked me who my favorite team was, it
wasn't any NBA team Like the Suns didn't do a
great job marketing down to Tucson, even though we were
an hour and a half down the road. It was
the University of Arizona. That was what we rooted for.
It's a huge cultural.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Thing here, just like it is in any.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Other college town for those of you guys who live
in college towns and you know what it's like. And
I was lucky to get to play with a lot
of these guys that came through the system. TJ McConnell
has always been one of my favorite players. I've told
this story on the show before. It's been a very
long time, but TJ and I I played pick up
with and against him at various points at the u
of A. And my first time meeting TJ in person,
(05:25):
I was this young, just asshole, for lack of a
better word, and I was playing in a game against
TJ and some U of A guys, and I was
bringing this like crazy competitive energy to the game because
I was like viewing it as an opportunity to try
to like test myself, you know that sort of thing.
And I was just being a dumb young basketball player.
(05:47):
But I vividly remember in that environment a lot of
the guys kind of playing the too cool for school,
like whatever, we're just out here messing around kind of thing.
And there was one guy on the other team that
had no desire to things that way and that wanted
to win that game at all costs. And I saw
the competitive fire in TJ's eyes in that game when
(06:09):
we were playing against each other and he was talking
shit to me and all that kind of stuff. Totally
was like an exposure to the fact that, like TJ
is one of the APEX competitors that you'll meet, he
is a guy that that regardless. I always have thought
that a guy who approaches a random pickup game with
an insane amount of competitive energy even though he is
(06:31):
a pro, even though he is a guy that has
played at in the college level, at the overseas level,
in the NBA level, like that, to me is an
indicator of a guy that has a competitive motor that
is there regardless of surrounding circumstances. And I just remember,
like I remember being struck by TJ the first time
I met him, just by how intense he was. And
(06:51):
I do think that that has been a huge driving
force behind what has made him a ten year NBA
pro and has just been one of my favorite players
to root for over the years. But I've been fortunate
to see a bunch of u A guys come through Tucson,
and it was obviously a lot of fun last night
to watch TJ and Ben to uf alums put a
huge mark on an NBA Finals game that the Pacers
(07:15):
basically won that game with two runs. There was a
twenty five to ten run in the early second quarter
that took them from down eight to up seven, and
then there was a twenty three to eleven run in
the early fourth quarter that put them from down five
to up seven, and those were really the stretches that
swung this game back towards Endy. The early second quarter
(07:37):
run was mostly TJ McConnell. Again, We've talked about this
a lot in the series preview, but he has one
of like TJ is actually one of the better athletes
in the league when it comes to getting straight line
speed and changing direction. At straight line speed, he can
bring the ball out the floor with pace and he
just kind of sets it up for a strong right
hand drive and he counters it with a right to
(07:58):
left crossover and then he spins, he gets cut off,
and he just brings a lot of downhill power in
those drives and it just makes him very, very difficult
to guard and like, there were a lot of plays
like there was one where he dropped off the ball
to Pascal Siakam for an easy layup. During that run
where he just was staring down Cason Wallace like head
to head and just got into the lane. And that
(08:21):
ultimately is the thing that breaks down any defense is
the ability to beat your primary defender and to draw
and help. And on this play he beat Cason Wallace
and drew and Alex Caruso, which opened up a little
drop off to Pascal Siakam and he got an easy layup.
And there were a lot of opportunities for guy like
he had a big transition drive where he drew a foul.
He had another drive out of pick and roll where
(08:45):
he beat Caseon Wallace towards the baseline. He just was
consistently getting past his man, which was making all of
these positive trickle down effects. And guys were getting open
on cuts I talked about Siakam, Ben Mathern got open
on a cut, Obie Toppen got open running his lane
and transition on the left side of the floor. That
was when TJ got one of his inbound steals. If
you remember, he stole the inbound pass immediately after scoring
(09:08):
like TJ was just all over the place in that
early second quarter run and brought the life back into
the arena after Oklahoma City threw a hell of a
punch in the first quarter and left Indiana just a
tiny bit shook at that point, but TJ dug him
out of it and got him.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Back into the game.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And then on the other end of the floor, Jdubb
took and missed a couple of tough mid range pull
ups the two man game with Hartenstein and Chet. That
was a too big look for the Thunder that didn't
work in this game. Again, I talked about that after
Game one, like I don't really the different looks that
Oklahoma City has are more or less irrelevant to me
because each one of them can succeed. It's just are
they going to do the job or are they not?
(09:44):
And this was an example where the two big look
didn't work. They switched the two man game at the
top of the key and forced Chat into a tough
fade away that he missed. It was just in general
a cold spell for Oklahoma City. Indiana jumped and took
the lead there and then in the early fourth quarter
it was Ben Matherin again a twenty three to eleven
run that took them from down five to put him
(10:05):
up seven. Ben Matherin, we talked about him before the series,
is another one of those guys that has that size
and athleticism to get to his spots against this Oklahoma
City defense. I talked about this a little bit last
night with Colin and we talked about it on playback.
But the if you look at Nie Smith, Neie Smith
is a very good athlete, but he doesn't handle the
ball like TJ or Ben, not close right, And Nemhard
(10:27):
is a great ball handler, but he's not not anywhere
near the athlete that TJ McConnell and Ben Mathern are.
And so TJ and Ben bring that combination of like
kind of apex athletic traits and also the ability to
handle the basketball that brings a real problem for Oklahoma
City to be able to handle. And like I know,
a TJ doesn't really have the reputation of being that
type of athlete.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I think he is.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I think he's very big and strong and is a
very strong, like straight line speed guy that can change direction.
I think that's an elite athletic trade and that is
what has allowed those guys to be successful against a
very very good perimeter defense from Oklahoma City. But we
discussed Ben before the series as a guy that could
be a real scoring boost for this Pacers team, and
(11:09):
he got a bunch of buckets. In that early fourth
quarter stretch, he drove into Jdubb's chest and spun off
of him and got an and one floater. He had
this ridiculous shot and drop coverage where he like softly
fed a left handed layup up off the glass. That
was just a remarkable piece of shot making. That's a
shot that the vast majority of even NBA players are
(11:30):
going to overcook off the glass and probably end up missing,
and Ben mather and made it. He had a pull
up three versus drop coverage along the right side of
the floor. He had several pull up jump shots in
the game, and if you watch him, he just gets
such great lift and that's really the thing for him,
Like if he can just get to his spot and
rise up, these thunder players literally aren't big enough to
(11:51):
really get a great contest on him there, and he
was able to get some really good pull up jump
shot looks in this game. And then TJ had another
stretch in that in that run where he he had
a driving layup where he ran like kind of a
decoy ballscreen on the left side and got Casen to
think he was gonna switch. Instead he just hit the
Jets with one of those right handed drives and got
a layup. Immediately stole the inbounds pass and got another layup. Like,
(12:14):
those guys were just massive in this game. Ten points,
five assists and five steals for TJ. McConnell, twenty seven
points in an NBA Finals game on just twelve shots
for Ben mathurin just huge NBA Finals moments for those
two guys. And if they win the title, obviously as
a local Tucson guys in Arizona guy, it will be
(12:35):
a game that I look back on very fondly. That's
it for this week's course correction. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions
empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions,
sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With
Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey
with confidence, finding innovative solutions, and reaching new possibilities. Visit
Microsoft dot com Slash Challengers to learn more. It's worth
(13:00):
mentioning that in the fourth quarter that during that run
their defense was incredible as well. The big thing that
really started to have some effect was just overall ball denials.
There was a possession where Nemard had a quality denial
of Shay on a sideline out of bounds where he
was trying to get a post up and because they
didn't throw it to him and ended up getting worked
(13:21):
around to j Dubb for a miss.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
There were multiple plays.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Where guys like got denied and they tried to back
cut out of the denial and then part and Sign
or someone else like threw a pass on a back
door cut to try to get them open against the
denial that led into turnovers. So like, lots and lots
of success from ball denials, lots and lots of success
from just overall ball pressure. We're gonna talk about it
in a minute, but I thought Oklahoma City really looked fatigued.
(13:47):
Down the stretch defense was a huge element of those
fourth quarter runs as well. Now down the stretch once again,
in classic Pacers fashion, a little bit of everybody right
Tyres Halliburton, who all night long started just taking the
I thought he came out the first couple minutes a
little passive, but hit the jets there in the middle
of that first quarter, and just did a great job
all night of just taking the conceited coverage beating looks
(14:09):
that he wasn't taking for the first three quarters of
Game two. It's not on every possession. Sometimes they beat
him over the top of the screen. He wasn't able
to get some clean looks. But all throughout this series,
again in the drop coverage, he's had mildly contested pull
up jump shots coming off of ball screens and mildly
contested floaters going downhill in ball screens. All against variations
of drop coverage. Those shots have been there for him,
(14:32):
and he just didn't take them for the first three
quarters of Game two. Did a much better job tonight
of taking them, and he was making them tonight, So
not only was he keeping himself in a rhythm, but
he was actually providing some real scoring pop for his team.
But in the fourth quarter, hit a huge three at
the top of the key that broke a tie that
put them up by three. Late in the game, he
had a beautiful skip pass and pick and roll that
(14:52):
led to an Aaron Nee Smith three in the right corner.
Nie Smith hit a couple of massive threes in the
second half of this game, despite having we talk all
the time about just find a way to make a
play when you're having a rough night. And Nie Smith
was getting cooked by J. Dubb in io and in
ball screens all night long. He was missing shots. It
was like a really rough Nie Smith game. And he
(15:13):
just hit a couple of huge threes late and he
got a couple of big stops on Jdublade and who
the hell cares what happened before that. Pacers got the
win right, but really nice skip pass from Haliburton there.
I thought he actually missed another one that could have
gotten to Siakam three in the left corner where he
forced the ball to Turner instead, but Halliburton did a
really nice job down the stretch.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Nemhard hit two huge jumpers.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
There was a play where TJ McConnell just straight up
broke off Sga on an ISO, but he smoked the
layup on the tap The tap out that happened after
Nemhardt hill a pretty tough little mid range jump shot
over Chet. He had another one and dropped coverage. That
was a big shot in crunch time, Miles Turner, after
having a brutally bad game for three quarters, just getting
absolutely fried in is at the level coverage and missing
(15:57):
shots all over the floor, he Chet on a pocket
pass where he caught the ball and just got downhill
and then just bumped Chet off and Chet went flying
and he got a little easy layup. He blocked Chet
three times in the fourth quarter, twice at the rim
in another play at the three point line. Once again,
rough game for Miles for three quarters. Just find a
(16:18):
way to make a play. Now, we will remember Game
three as a game where Miles Turner made huge plays
and helped his team win, and no one's gonna care
about what happened in the first three quarters. It's such
as these were such classic examples of like, for you
young basketball players out there, no matter what happens in
the first quarter, no matter what happens in the second quarter,
no matter what happens in the third, no matter what
happens in the first half of the fourth quarter, Like,
(16:39):
just find a way to make a play and do
something to put your team in position to win, and
no one's gonna give a shit about what happened during
the remainder of that game.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Obi top in.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
A huge sequence, a two way sequence where he had
a tip dunk and then got a block. On the
other end, Tyres was running a guard guard screen on
the left side of the floor. He rejected the screen
and got great dribble penetration. And when you get great
dribble penetration trickle down effects. Right lou Dord has to
step over off of the weak side corner in low manhelp.
Alex Cruso, who's guarding Toppin, has to drop an account
(17:12):
for the corner. That opens up a runway for Obi
Toppen to just shoot down that right wing lane line
and he just gets up and throws down a massive
two handed dunk. They go down to the other end
down the stretch. The pacers were way way better with
their at the level coverages with their forwards. He at
the level coverage with Turner doesn't work. It's causing all
sorts of problems. We're going to talk about that in
(17:33):
a minute. But with Siakamen Topping in particular, they got
multiple stops on switches in actions that looked to attack
them with either JDub or Shay And the big part
of it was One of the problems they were having
in those hedges or in those switches with those forwards
is one either the on ball guy would lose contain
and share or JDub would just reject the screen, at
(17:54):
which case would be an automatic four on three, or
they would go off the screen and then just immediately
top In or split Siakam and get right downhill and
suddenly it would be another four on three. Those four
on threes have been a major issue for Indiana's defense
over the course of the last two games, but in
the fourth quarter, one of the things they were doing
the on ball guy was more strongly overplaying towards the
(18:17):
screen to make it so that Shay or Jadubb could
not reject the screen, Almost like an ice coverage where
you're like forcing him to go a certain way, except
for instead of in an ice coverage, you forced the
guard to go away from the screen. In this case,
they were overplaying him to the screen, and then the
guy Siakam or Topping weren't getting split Toppin was meeting
him a little further back. Siakam same thing, using his
(18:38):
length to contest. After the tip dunk, Toppin switched on
to j Dubb, slid his feet, kept his chest in
front of that shoulder, met Jdubb at the rim and
swatted his ass. Huge play down the stretch of that
game and then their defense. We talked a little bit
about it earlier, but after really struggling to guard Oklahoma
City for basically seven quarters row, they got the stops
(19:01):
they needed in that fourth quarter again Siakam in top
in those switches. Siakam locked up SGA and ISO twice,
once got him to pass out of a little step
back three attempt, another one where he contested a really
like a really nice contested ISO, like eighteen foot off
of the left elbow where he got to stop. He
also had a really sharp close out on Cruso on
a play where he had a foot in the paint,
(19:23):
passed went out to Cruso.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Crusoe looked open.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
We talked about this in the Knick series too, but
Siakam has been really good with his like help and
recover closeouts on the weak side. He got a really
good close out on Cruso that forced him to pass
out of what looked like in open three. They started
to snuff out specific actions we talked earlier about there
at the level coverages with their forwards. We won't go
any further into that, but they finally got to stop
on that SGA backscreen action. We talked about this in
(19:47):
game In game one, they had Shay backscreen for Cason Wallace.
Caseon Wallace got a wide open layup because Nemhar didn't
want to help off of SGA on screens. They ran
it again early in the fourth quarter tonight for Chet
SGA screen for him. Nemhar didn't want to help. Chet
got an easy layup out of it. They ran it
again in crunch time, and finally the Pacers snuffed it out.
(20:10):
Nemhard slid over and showed while it was one of
the biggs. I think it was Siakam, it might have
been Turner. I think it was Turner. Actually, Turner lingered
for just a second on Shay while Nemhard lingered for
just a second showing on the Chet backcut, and then
they recovered to each other's man shut down the action again.
That's what happens in these playoff series. As things progress,
(20:32):
you see things enough times, you start to kind of
snuff out the actions. You know what you're looking for,
what you're waiting for, and it all of a sudden
becomes a little bit more about getting one on one
buckets or where you can create an advantage because the
actions aren't working as well. And then in general ball
pressure and fatigue. You'll notice I've been pretty critical of
(20:53):
the Turner at the level coverages, especially in this series,
but I haven't been too worried about the ball pressure.
There's been some downsides where they've given up dribble penetration.
But the big difference between this team and Jaden McDaniels
is when Jada McDaniels would get beat, he's not as
quick footed to get back into the play. Nie Smith,
Nemhar tj. These guys are so quick footed that even
(21:15):
when they give up dribble penetration in their ball pressure,
they can pressure from behind and rush the ball handler
into making mistakes. I'm advocating with Turner for a deeper
drop coverage.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
We'll talk about that when we get a little bit
later into the show. But those that is a specific
issue that they were having with Minnesota, that Minnesota was
having where Shaye would beat ball pressure and then he
was just getting wherever he wanted on the floor for
the most part, Indy's been able to like actually cause
some issues with their dribble drive guys into rushing, into
making mistakes and turning the basketball over. And there's a
(21:46):
huge fatigue element to ball pressure in denials. And I
thought Oklahoma City looked tired down the stretch Shae in particular,
hands on knees, not fighting for loose balls like Shaye
looked really tired down the stretch of this game. That
is a cumulative wear and tear effect that comes from
that ball pressure. But once again for the Pacers, everybody
(22:06):
made plays and that continues to be the story for
this Pacers team. They have seven guys averaging double figures
for them in this series. Nobody's averaging twenty, but seven
dudes are averaging at least ten. Juxtaposed with a Thunder
team that has two dudes averaging twenty in five dudes
total averaging ten. They are just a They are just
(22:28):
a cumulative force of nature. On any given night, it's
somebody different doing something different. But they're just a remarkably
balanced basketball team. They as a team, forced a bunch
of turnovers, blocked a bunch of shots. They continue to
be one of my favorite playoff teams that I've ever watched.
I actually thought it was funny. I saw a comment
from you guys after last night's show where there are
(22:51):
a lot of Pacers fans that think that, like I
want the Thunder to win, that's not true. Like I
think the Thunder are going to win. I picked them
to win the series because you'd be foolish not to
given what we knew about the two teams coming in.
But like I find the Pacers to be a more
likable basketball team than the Thunder, I find the Pacers
(23:11):
to be a funner team to watch than the Thunder.
Me and my basketball pick is not the same as
what my basketball heart believes, so to speak, And I
will flatly say that the Pacers are one of my
favorite teams that I've ever watched, and I'll just freely
admit I have been rooting for them in this series.
(23:34):
It's just an authentic basketball feeling that I have when
I'm watching this team. I'm watching them and I want
them to win. So like that is that I believe
in the Thunder and I have so much respect for
the Thunder. And we're going to talk about the specific
reasons why I think they still deserve to be favored
in the series. But yeah, Like I'm sitting on the
(23:54):
couch and I find myself rooting for the Pacers because
they're just such an unbelievably likable basketball team that plays
such a beautiful brand of basketball. You've got a couple
of U of A guys on the roster that's obviously
gonna appeal to me in my sentimentality a certain amount, right, So,
like this is they They've just I think they've been
such such an excellent showcase for the next generation of
(24:17):
basketball fans to see what the best version of modern
basketball looks like. And I just really enjoyed watching them
in this playoff run on the Oklahoma City front. They
look to be in a really strong position for three quarters.
After Jadubb hit that little side step three at the
top of the key at the end of the third
quarter that put them up five, I thought they were
gonna pull that game out. It mostly came down to turnovers.
(24:37):
Their half court offensive rating wasn't good. I think it
was like a ninety three if I remember correctly, But
they were they were efficient in their specific actions. When
they didn't turn the ball over, they got good looks
and I'm sure that's what deag Naught will be talking
about when he watches the film and he talks to
his guys. He's gonna be like, look, when we don't
take when we don't turn the basketball over and we
get the ball through their defense, we get quality looks.
(24:59):
Oklahoma City shot the ball really well last night. Like
that's the other thing too, Like, if you're a Pacers fan,
you're looking for another upside, Like you won Game one
despite the insane amount of turnovers.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
You won Game three.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Despite the fact that Oklahoma City shot substantially better than
you did. There's a lot of upside there if you're
a Pacers fan looking for some optimism looking forward in
the series. But Oklahoma City did when they didn't turn
the ball over, they did get good looks. They were
very efficient in pick and roll. This is the in
this entire series, Oklahoma City has been extremely well, especially
in Game two and three. I should say Oklahoma City
(25:32):
has been very, very efficient attacking and pick and roll.
They have a lot of upside that they've been able
to identify through three games. They just can't turn the
ball over as much as they did. They they did
get away from their pet action like it's funny. Every
team has to have a pet action that they trust
in order to have success later in playoff series. And
I think the Shai Gilles Alexander ball screens where they're
(25:54):
attacking Miles Turner in space are really really good and
they're getting great stuff out of them. Even in the
fourth quarter, they got a wide open three for lou
Dort out of the left corner and out of that action,
and they should have got another wide open three for
lou Dort, but Chet missed a read off of a
short roll a catch. But like they consistently get four
(26:14):
on threes out of it because either the guy shows
too high and Shaye dumps it over the top and
that guy gets a four on three on the roll,
or Shay's just beating that that at the level show
from Turner because he's too slow to keep him in
front in space, or Shay's rejecting the screen and now
Turner is on the wrong side of the screen and
he's getting four on three. Anyway, they get a lot
(26:34):
of really good stuff out of that, but they didn't
spam it enough, like classic example, the one that Dort missed,
like Shaye runs the ball screen with chet top of
the key. They get a wide open three for lou
Dort out of it. So like textbook process and lou
Dort's been shooting the shit out of the basketball in
this series. Dort misses the three. So instead of being like,
we ran good process, got a great shot, let's go
(26:57):
back to it, they went right down the floor on
the next possession, shade it and see the ball they
went through. They went through Jadub and it's like, I
get it, Like Jadub was having success. He was attacking
knees Smith and having some success. But like, by far
the most reliable action for the Thunder in the series
has been Shaye attacking turner and ball screens at the
level they get great stuff out of it every single time.
And I didn't think they ran it nearly enough in
(27:19):
the fourth quarter. And that's the thing with young basketball players.
They struggle to identify what's working and replicate it, and
identify what's not working and get away from it. And
so I do think there was a little bit of
an execution misstep in that fourth quarter. Looking forward in
the series, again, as we talk about as series progress,
the low hanging fruit stuff becomes harder and harder to
come by, you know, unless you're playing the Knicks and
(27:40):
suddenly they play their worst transition defense and overall details
game in game six.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's kind of.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Unusual, but most for the most part, teams kind of
get a little better at identifying and staying in front
of that stuff as series progresses. As the series progresses,
and then actions get snuffed out right, and so all
of a sudden, it becomes what are your reliable, unguardable actions.
What are the things you can run that are guaranteed
to generate you a good shot in the half court
because they don't have a good option to defend it.
(28:07):
And I think Oklahoma City has a really reliable action
that they can go to to generate a good shot,
and it's that Shay high ballscreen with Miles Turner where
they're just consistently getting four on threes out of it.
I'm not sure Indy has established any one single action
that reliable. It's been kind of different stuff in every
different part of the game. It's very much like a
(28:28):
flow in a rhythm that Indiana gets that involves everybody.
So I still would make Oklahoma City a favorite to
win the series at this point, but to be clear,
we have officially entered into the Pacers have a great
chance to win this series territory. That's where we're at now.
You know, we always talk about like you got to
take it one game at a time, all the stuff
(28:48):
that you hear in press conferences when teams are just
saying all the meaningless platitudes that we hear.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
But it's true.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
It's one game at a time, Right, you play again
on Friday. If you beat the Thunder on Friday, you're
in an excellent position to win the series. It's two
days off between every game from that point forward. You'll
have two days off between Game five and Game six
back in Indiana, and that city will be on fire.
And you win one game in game six, suddenly you
win the championship. So everything centers around Friday. Win Friday.
(29:19):
The pathway is there for you to win the series.
All of a sudden. I think I'd make you a
favorite if you win on Friday. So it is incredibly achievable.
You did the job. You did the job to this point.
You stole home court advantage and you won one of
your home games. It's win two home games and the
trophy is yours. It is right there for the taking.
But as you know that expression that, like in baseball,
(29:43):
that momentum is only as strong as your next night
starting pitcher, the point being like, doesn't matter if you
won five games in a row or four games in
a row, doesn't matter, you know what positive momentum you've
built up. If the next dude who comes to town
has like a one hundred and two mile an hour
two seemer that he keeps down in the zone and
no one can hit, and he counters it with a
(30:03):
slider that everyone's swinging out of their shoes even though
it lands, you know, eighteen inches outside of the strike zone. Like,
if that is what's happening, and your dudes are all
swinging out of their shoes and they can't make contact,
no one cares about your momentum. No one cares about
what kind of like like vibe you've got going in
the dugout right. Similarly, in the NBA, momentum is only
as strong as, like, can you score against Oklahoma City's
(30:25):
defense when they really really tighten the screws, And as
we saw in the third quarter in particular, they can
tighten the screws on this Pacers team and cause problems
for him. I think they only had twenty points in
that quarter, and it was a lot of the same
stuff we saw in Game two, like super intense closeouts
that were kind of shaking Indiana spot up shooters.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
They went really cold.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
There is there's a level that Oklahoma City can get
too athletically, and I believe that they will reach that
point in Game four, understanding the desperation of the situation
for the majority of that game, and so I think
it's going to be a much much tougher game to win.
And in that setting, Oklahoma City has this really reliable
action they can go to at the top of the
key to get great shots. Not to mention just Shae
(31:06):
Iso is a relatively reliable action in this matchup, and
so it's gonna be tough. That's the challenge that Game
four is going to be the toughest game of the
series by far for the Pacers. I absolutely think they
can win it. I absolutely think they have a great
chance to win this series. But at this point, I
think Oklahoma City's defense at its ceiling has proven to
be a little bit better than Indiana's, and I think
(31:28):
they have a reliable action that they can go to
I think Oklahoma City is going to win Game four,
win Game five, and then win one of the next
two games. So I'm gonna stick with Oklahoma City in
six or seven. But the Pacers have done exactly what
we hoped they would do. They have put themselves in
a position to win this series coming into the series
despite it being one of the most substantial favorites in
(31:50):
recent NBA history. So shout out to the Pacers for
making this an entertaining series. One last note on that
action we talked about that high ball screen attacking turner
in space. I want to dive into this action just
a tiny bit further for just a couple minutes, and
then we'll be done. So why would you bring a big.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Up to the level.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
You bring a big up to the level to dissuade
a pull up shooter. So like, let's say you're playing Steph.
You don't want him coming off of screens and shooting
pull up three. So you need someone at the level
that can kind of like take away that shot right
or two to take away the runway right. So like
athletic guards that are really good dribble drive guys. A
lot of times you'll show at the level just so
that they can't curl the screen and get going. They
(32:30):
curl the screen and run into somebody before they can
get their momentum, and so it like stops them from
giving dribble penetration right or three to blitz get the
ball out of their hands.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
But the problem that the Pacers are having in this action,
and the reason why these shape ball screens with Chet
and Hartenstein that attack Turner in space have been so effective,
is that Turner's going up to the level and he's
not containing the ball and Shay's getting past him or
the role man's getting past him. The ball is getting
past Turner almost every time when he gets up to
(33:03):
the level, and so that literally defeats the purpose if
you're that defeats the purpose unless you're consistently getting the
ball out of Shay's hands. But Shae himself is dribbling
past Turner much of the time. Like there were a
couple plays in the second half where they were more
blitzy with Turner and he was super aggressive and he
forced Hey to get rid of the basketball. That's fine,
(33:24):
at the very least, you're forcing them to play four
on three without Shae in the action, but like, there's
way too many examples of Turner coming up to the
level and Shae's dribbling right around him, and so my
thing is keep pressure in him. But if Shay's gonna
get past him, if the ball's gonna get past him,
no matter what, you might as well have him at
the rim or closer to the rim. And so all
(33:46):
I'm advocating for is just running a deeper drop coverage
with Turner. Well, that have its issues, of course, Now
all of a sudden he's gonna have to deal with
someone coming downhill at him, but at least he's got
length to bother at the rim. Now you're gonna concede
a lot of pull up mid range jump shots in
drop coverage around the elbows, Okay, but I'd rather give
that up than some of the stuff they're getting out
(34:06):
of these four on threes, especially when Shay himself beats
the at the level coverage. And so my thing is like,
don't bring Turner up to the level unless he can
either contain the ball or force Shay to get rid
of it, and he hasn't been able to do that
in this series. So I would have him in more
of a deeper drop, or at least you're making his
length a factor at the rim, because again, like that
(34:27):
is the action they're gonna have to find a way
to guard. If they're gonna win this series, They're gonna
have to find a way to guard that SGA ballscreen
that attacks Miles Turner in space. All right, guys, It's
all I have for today is always to sincerely appreciate
you guys for supporting me and supporting the show. We
will be back tomorrow night after the final buzzer of
Game four of the NBA Finals. I'm incredibly excited. It'll
(34:48):
be just me that night, me and Jackson. We're breaking
it down. We'll have a mail bag. We'll also head
over to playback and take questions and watch some film.
Really looking forward to Game four. I will see you
guys then. But some guys, as always, im preciate you
for listening to and supporting Hoops tonight. They would actually
be really helpful for us if you guys would take
a second and leave a rating and a review.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I really appreciate it. The volume
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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