Jason reacts to the Phoenix Suns beating LeBron James and the Los Angeles Lakers on Monday night and discusses Phoenix's impressive defensive start to the season behind Mark Williams, Dillon Brooks completely reshaping his NBA career, Luka Doncic and Austin Reaves struggling once again with big, physical defenders, and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, welcome to hoopson I here at
the volume. Happy Tuesday, everybody, hope if you guys are
having a great start to your week. A wild night
(00:21):
in the NBA last night, all sorts of weird games.
Houston loses on the road in Utah, a game where
they couldn't stop fouling down the stretches. They had this
bizarre stretch where they committed I think five fouls on
one single possession. The Dallas Mavericks when their second consecutive
game going on the road into Denver. Ryan Emhart has
(00:42):
a massive night, Cooper Flag playing two of his best
games as a young pro. Anthony Davis monster night. Lots
of weird stuff, but I'm going to be zooming in
on Suns Lakers from last night. We haven't done a
deep dive on the Suns in a while, and I
really want to dig into why they've been so much
better than we even expected. I thought the Suns would
(01:03):
be feisty this year, kind of looked at them as
a team that would be a pain in the ass
to play on any given night. But now they're looking
like a bona fide playoff team. And that is coming
down to a handful of pieces with internal improvement, the
development of Mark Williams into a foundational defensive center, Dylan
Brooks blowing up into like a legitimate score in this league,
(01:24):
Colin Gillespie flashing a little bit of that Austin Reeves
esque development trajectory as a role player guard into a
little bit more and a little bit more each time
we see him. I want to do a deep dive
into the suns. After that, I will talk about you know, again,
this happens, it's December. You lose a bad game, or
you lose a game like this where you look bad
(01:46):
if you're the Lakers. But I do think that there's
a disturbing trend with them getting punked by some of
these bigger, physical, athletic perimeter teams, and I want to
talk about what that specifically means for the Lakers and
their short term and long term goals as currently constructed.
You guys know the joke before we get started to
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(02:08):
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(02:28):
the last but not least, if you guys want to
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That helps me sort through them as I'm looking through.
And we will have our next mail bag coming up
on this Friday. All right, let's talk some basketball. So
you know, I want to take the game itself and
(02:50):
I want to focus more on some of the big
picture stuff for both of these teams. Obviously, the game itself,
it's combination of an incredibly impressive performance by the Phoenix
and an incredibly disappointing performance by the Los Angeles Lakers.
They led by as much as twenty five in this
game Phoenix did. And there's a tendency on nights like
last night, just to chalk things up to December basketball, right,
(03:14):
like that's Knights like last night. Happened a lot in
the NBA, where it's like Houston losing in Utah as
a classic example. Houston's been one of the most impressive
teams in the league to start this season, and they
could not stop making mistakes down the stretch against the Jazz,
Denver losing to Dallas. Denver has a few kind of
bizarre bad losses as of late. Am I about to
(03:35):
panic about the Lakers because they looked bad on a
Monday in December to drop to fifteen to five. No,
of course not. We're not gonna get melodramatic today. But
I do think there is plenty to learn from that game.
First of all, Phoenix is a really good basketball team,
and they have some very exciting developments in terms of
(03:56):
internal improvement that have made them even more dangerous than
I thought they would be before the season. And then
on the Lakers front, Phoenix presented some physical challenges and
a game plan that caused the Lakers to spiral in
a way that we've seen before against Oklahoma City back
(04:16):
in November, or against Minnesota back in the playoffs last
year in the first round. I think those are real
demons that the Lakers will have to conquer if they
want to reach their goals. We're gonna get to the
Lakers later, though. We haven't done a deep dive on
the Suns in a while, so I want to deep
dive in on Phoenix, and I want to start with
their defense. There are things with the Suns this season
(04:38):
that I expected, but there have also been some things
that I've been genuinely surprised by. I expected them to
be a good defense. It just made sense structurally. You
have a guy like Ryan Dunn heading into his second
year who's very dynamic and versatile on the perimeter as
the defender. He's got strength, he's got speed, he compete,
(05:00):
he's got a good motor. Lots of really exciting stuff there.
You go into a second season, you expect him to
experience a good amount of improvement on that end of
the floor, and then you turn Kevin Durant into Dylan Brooks.
That's obviously a talent downgrade, right, but Dylan Brooks is
legitimately one of the best perimeter defenders in the entire NBA,
and similar to Ryan Dunn, he can guard a pretty
(05:22):
wide range of players. So you add a second guy
in that Ryan Dunn ilk of this big, physical, awesome
perimeter defender when this team was lacking that type of
player last year. But then you look down the roster
and everyone else on the perimeter. As a plus, Devin
(05:42):
Booker was literally the primary point of attack guy on
many nights for Team USA a couple of summers ago.
Royce O'Neil is a solid perimeter defender. Jordan Goodwin is
a solid perimeter defender. Colin Gillespie and Grayson Allen, those
are guys who compete. They're physical, they're usually in the
right spot, they have good game plan discipline, and they
(06:03):
have some defensive talent at the center position, some guys
who can switch a little bit, plenty of foot speed,
and some real length in the form of guys like
Mark Williams and come on, malowatch right, that was what
I saw coming into the season, and I'm like, oh,
this is going to be a good defense. But then
I watched them come out and physically punch the Lakers
in the mouth in their first preseason game. You guys
(06:24):
remember that we covered that preseason game, and I was like, Okay,
not only do they have the pieces on paper, but
they also look clearly bought in. This is going to
be a pain in the ass to deal with on
any given night in the NBA. I specifically predicted before
the season that they'd be the type of team who
would beat the really good Western Conference teams on any
(06:47):
given night where they don't bring the appropriate effort and focus.
In other words, I thought they'd be the royal pain
in the ass type of team in the West playoff picture.
But I figured they'd be something like thirty seven and
forty five, some really fun wins against good teams, some
(07:07):
fun nights for the fans, but no real threat, like,
no real any sort of like consistent success. That's gonna
be something people have to account for in the playoff picture.
Forget all of that. They look like a legitimate playoff team,
Like at this point, they look pretty well entrenched as
(07:28):
a top eight seed in the West. It's still early.
Dudes could get hurt, Devin Booker growing injury last night,
things could fall apart. But to me, they look a
lot more like a forty five and thirty seventeen than
a thirty seven and forty five team. So the question is,
why why is it that the Suns on a year
(07:49):
where they lose Bradley Beal and they trade Kevin Durant
that they suddenly are looking like a team that could
very well be better than they were last year. And
there's two for that. One is the internal development on offense,
which we'll get too later on guys like Calling Gillespie,
guys like Dylan Brooks. We'll get to that later. The
(08:10):
second piece of it, though, is the internal development on defense,
specifically with Mark Williams as a drop coverage big. I
remember when the Lakers made that ill fated Dalton connect
for Mark Williams trade last year, shortly before the deadline.
I did a pretty extensive scout on Mark Williams, and
(08:32):
I thought he looked bad on defense. He obviously had
the tools, He's got good mobility, he's got a ridiculous
wingspan for the position. But his instincts were rough. He
made a ton of mistakes. He'd, you know, try to
block shots he had no business blocking and give up
offensive rebounds, or he'd aggressively show and help and give
an easy drop off for a donkey. Just looked like
(08:52):
a guy that really struggled with the basic decision making
process of rim protection of like when to go for
the shot versus when to stay home to some basic fundamentals.
He looked like he was a real mistake maker. So
I viewed him as a offensive weapon, a guy that
could help Luca on the role as a vertical spacer.
Guy was a good offensive rebounder of always like underrated
(09:14):
as a guy who could like grab offensive rebounds and
make kickout passes to three point shooters, a lot more
connective passing, short role passing ability than you'd think. I'm like, oh,
this will be a good offensive weapon for Luca, But
this guy can't guard and that's going to be an issue,
and there were the health concerns. Right, Phoenix has turned
him into a legitimate defensive anchor, which I did not
(09:37):
see coming. This is a credit to Brian Gregory. He
made a big bet on just how incompetent Charlotte was
in terms of the talent they had on the floor
and the way they were using him. And I think
that Brian Gregory just looked at that and was like,
Charlotte's at least partially responsible for Mark not being a
good defender. We can turn him around. And then second,
(10:01):
you have to credit Jordan not for creating an achievable
defensive role for him with the talent they had available.
We often refer to drop coverage on the show as
a bracket. Okay, why is it bracket Because there's two
sides to the coverage. There's the big who's keeping the
(10:23):
ball handler and the big in front in a deep
drop or at least keeping the ballhandler in front and
high drop right. And then there's the top part of
the bracket, which is the on ball defender getting over
the top of the screen, staying attached, back pressuring, getting
a rear view contest. And one of the things that's
(10:44):
kind of difficult with evaluating bigs and drop coverage, and
this is some of the one of the things I
underrated when I was scouting Mark Williams's film in Charlotte
is the job of the drop coverage big is substantially
harder when the point of attack defense isn't good. When
the top part of the bracket isn't good, and that
ball handler is easily getting over the top of the
(11:06):
screen and he has lots of separation from his defender
and he's super comfortable operating in the mid range, he
can manipulate the drop coverage Big easier because that drop
coverage Big also has a responsibility to offer contest on
those mid range shots. There's a little dance you do.
You're back pedaling, you're stunting and contesting at the guard
(11:29):
while making sure you keep that role man in front
of you, right, and if that guy's coming free and
clear off the screen, he's gonna engage you easier. It's
gonna look more like a traditional two on one where
like you jump to the guard and it's a lob dunk,
or you stay back and that dude's getting easy twos
(11:50):
or going right at you at the rim right. If
the guy on the top part of the bracket isn't
doing his job, it makes it really difficult. But when
you have Ryan Done, when you have Dylan Brooks, and
those dudes are getting up into the ball, making dudes
uncomfortable from the opening tip staying attached over the top
(12:13):
of screens, basically funneling you into the paint the ball handler,
making it so that dude doesn't have a lot of
comfort in the mid range but rather is just driving
into your length. It suddenly becomes a very tenable dynamic
for a talented drop coverage Big. That specific dynamic. The
(12:39):
ability of done In Brooks to pressure the ball and
stay attached from behind, while Mark Williams's giant wingspan is
swallowing everything up at the basket as they're getting funneled
in is literally what broke the Lakers offense last night.
And I want to give Jordan not some more credit
here because this did not go well early in the game.
(13:03):
His idea was, we're gonna run a traditional drop coverage
and we're going to guard that action two on two,
meaning Dunner Brooks is going to chase Mark Williams is
going to be there in the drop. The other three dudes,
they might stunt and recover a little bit of like
opportunistic playmaking, but for the most part, those dudes are
(13:23):
going to stay home. That leaves the coverage two on
two that is going to dictate the flow of the
game more towards Luka Doncic scoring the basketball. We talked
about this a lot over the course of the last
couple of games with the Lakers. I talked about it
yesterday in our Power Rankings show against the Pelicans. Luca
comes out and he's facing a lot of single coverage
(13:47):
and two on two in pick and roll, so he's
looking to score, and he scores, scores coorse coorse coorse
core score. And then suddenly by the middle of the
second quarter, it's we're anybody but Luca, please, We're blitzing
the hell out of this dude, give up the basketball
right Versus the Dallas game where Jason Kidd comes out
and he's doubling Luka Doncicch like from the opening tip,
and it's a little bit different dynamic. It's dictating Luca
(14:09):
more towards passing the basketball right. So Jordanott's game plan
last night, he wants to guard these pick and rolls
two on two. He's willing to live with Luca as
a score. And Luca's scores yet another twenty point first quarter,
something he's been doing a lot more often as of late. Now,
the overreaction would be, shit, Luca torched us, let's adjust,
(14:33):
let's start blitzing. Now all of a sudden, it's going
to be four on threes for Lebron and Austin off
the ball, and it's going to cause all sorts of
problems on the backside of your defense. There was no
overreaction from Jordan not he's stuck with the game plan,
and even though Luca was awesome in the first quarter,
he started to fall apart as the game went along
and really really started to turn the basketball over. They
(14:54):
turned Luca over nine times yesterday. How do those turnovers happen? Yes,
there were some un you know, kind of unforced ones
where you know, Luca's forcing ridiculous up the court passes
to cover Lebron or overthrowing Ruie running the running up
the lane line right Like. There were some unforced errors,
(15:15):
but most of those were a product of the fact
that when Lucas started to work against the two on two,
like he turned one over to Bouier in the right corner,
and it's like, do you staying home when those guys
are home? They're in the passing lanes. Lucas specifically mentioned
in the postgame presser that he was kind of confused
(15:37):
by the coverage. He got confused because of the fact
that he was getting defended two on two and it
felt like he was in a crowd because Mark Williams
is there and the dudes draped on his backside in
back pressure and they're kind of stunting and recovering, but
they're actually home. That's he was confused because it felt
(15:59):
like he was in a crowd when the action was
actually only getting guarded to on two. That's the dynamic
that you when you have the right kind of talent,
when you have the types of on ball players that
Phoenix has and the drop coverage big that Mark Williams
is in terms of his length around the basket, you
can make things feel congested when they actually aren't, and
(16:22):
that's what it can start turning into those turnovers. And
then JJ Reddick mentioned this after the game, but a
lot there were a couple of times where JJ or
where Luca got deep penetration and was like in around
the basket and there were swarms, but he had opportunities
to throw kickout passes, but he couldn't see them, and
he couldn't see them because Mark Williams' long ass arms
(16:43):
are going like this. And JJ mentioned that after the game,
Mark Williams and his length caused a problem for Luca
getting the ball through those coverages. And I just I
just think a big thing that we underrated, and myself
included that we underrated about this Phoenix Sun's defense is
they've turned Mark Williams into a legitimate defensive anchor drop
(17:07):
coverage big and they were able to successfully guard the
Lakers and pick and roll two on two most of
the night last night without giving up too much. And
by the way, the Suns this season are nine points
per one hundred possessions better on defense with Mark Williams
on the floor versus off, and I do think it's
(17:29):
worth mentioning beyond the two man games, So beyond the
dun and Williams or Brooks and Williams two man defensive
sequences against pick and roll, I thought the Suns as
a team were incredibly sharp with their help and recover
decisions and their rotations to shooters. A lot of sequences
where guys made opportunistic digs but then got back out,
or the Lakers did manage to not turn the basketball
(17:51):
over and kick out to somebody, but there was a
great close out that would chase it, Gabe Vincent off
the line, or chase him maxically ab off the liner,
Chase at Dalton connect off the line, a lot of
really good closeouts. I just thought they played a very
good defensive game last night Phoenix. That was the number
one half court offense in the entire NBA. In the
(18:11):
Lakers that the Suns faced last night. They held them
to a ninety nine offensive rating in the half court,
which is about seven points per one hundred possessions below
their season average. And that's obviously impressive in and of itself,
but the real damage was done on the margins. They
forced twenty two turnovers, and again some of them were unforced,
(18:31):
but many of them were like poke aways by their
on ball guys. You know, Ryan Done poking the ball
away from a Luca or Austin or like Mark Williams,
like we talked about forcing turnovers on kickouts with his
length around the rim. I think Phoenix deserves a ton
of credit for the job they did disrupting a great
Lakers offense. Those turnovers allowed them to get out and transition,
(18:53):
and they bludgeoned them in transition. The Suns scored thirty
two points off of Lakers turnovers in this game. They
outscored the Lakers twenty eight to two on the fast break.
That's basically the difference in the game. So, in other words,
the Suns defended so well that they played the Lakers
into a below average offensive game, and they forced a
(19:15):
ton of turnovers which fed their transition attack where they dominated,
and again I just want to credit every one of
the Suns, like Brian Gregory for the moves he made
this summer to balance out the roster, the bet he
made on Mark Williams, Jordanot for building a scheme that
matches the talent really well, and from day one of
the season getting a level of buy in from this
(19:36):
roster that they didn't have in years past. And the
guys in that locker room have been playing great defense.
They just deserve a lot of credit. Now it's moved
the offensive vent Dylan brooks Man. Today's show is brought
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But then he goes to Houston and Imai Uduka basically
(21:26):
gets him to stop taking those tougher shots, especially like
those pull up mid range twos, and suddenly his shot
diets skews way more heavily towards like that typical three
and d archetype. Now, he still did it every once
in a while, but for the most part, he trimmed
the fat out of his game and he literally became
one of the very best role players in the entire NBA.
(21:48):
And he was a big part of that turnaround in Houston.
His efficiency skyrocketed, basically became one of the best perimeter
defenders in the league. Just an awesome player who looked
at its very worth. The contract that he end up signing.
I think it was like four years, eighty million or
whatever it was at that point in time. It was
for that reason that I actually really liked this trade
(22:10):
for Phoenix. I thought turning Kevin Durant into Dylan Brooks
was obviously a talent downgrade, but it was the perfect
roster balancing trade, especially with an aging Kevin Durant. And
it's worth mentioning that we still haven't even seen Jalen
Green yet. I've two games before he reinjured the hamstring.
But we may end up seeing even more returns out
of that deal. However, I don't think any of us
(22:33):
could have seen this type of offensive explosion from Dylan,
especially after essentially trimming that from his game in Houston.
All of those good looking ISO moves from his time
in Memphis, the ones he was clanking left and right
now they're going in last night was not an outlier performance.
(22:54):
That was his ninth twenty plus point game of the season.
That was his sixth twenty five plus point game of
the season. It was his third thirty point game he's averaging.
Dylan Brooks averaging twenty five points per game over his
last ten games. He's shooting sixty one percent from two
(23:16):
point range. During that span. He's been deadly accurate on
pull ups thirty four for seventy one on pull up
twos this year, six for twelve on floaters. That's just
under fifty percent on pretty high volume. In the mid range.
He's sixty six percent at the rim. We didn't see
too much of this last night, but he's bullying dudes
like to the basket for layups on a lot of
(23:39):
his drives. Really, the only thing he's not shooting well
this year is the three, which is strange because he
shot it pretty well in Houston. So maybe it'll come
around as the season goes along. He certainly hit a
few last night, and it's making him into a legitimate
offensive weapon in this league. Dylan has run sixty nine
post ups in ISOs, so sixty nine to one on ones.
(24:00):
He generated seventy seven points including passes. That's one point
one to two points per possession. That's insanely good for
one on ones. I'm pretty good volume. He's also been
a good ball screen player. He's hit six of his
nine pull up threes in pick and roll. He's shooting
sixty three percent on twos in pick and roll, He's
run seventy eight of them. He's got one point two
(24:22):
to three points per possession including passes. That's incredible, And
the main thing I want to emphasize here is just
how much work Dylan has done behind the scenes to
continue to refine this part of his game. He has
actually some decent natural talent. As a score I always
talk about scoring as a three part skill. You have
(24:45):
to have this audacious personality, like you have to be
confident enough to think I don't need to score on
open shots or drive clothes outs, like I can get
a bucket on this dude one on one. There is
an odd dacious confidence piece to it. Then there's a
creativity piece to it. There's like a dance, a counter move,
(25:10):
like a move counter move dance to scoring. And there's
a natural instinct element to it that's like a creativity
and some dudes just don't have that. Some dudes are
just too robotic. They struggle with that natural dance of
move counter move. And then the third piece of it
is you have to have the touch to actually make shots.
(25:30):
Dylan always had those first two pieces. We all know,
damn well. Dylan has the audaciousness, he has the confidence.
That kind of stuff always came naturally to Dylan. Then
there's the creativity piece, like we talked about in Memphis.
He had the natural kind of like move counter move dance.
(25:53):
He would make these really nice one on one moves
and just miss the shot. The audacious in the creativity
those are natural talents for Dylan. What has happened is
he worked his ass off behind the scenes to turn
himself into a real shot maker, not just a shooter,
(26:14):
but a maker. And the thousands and thousands of reps
that must have taken behind the scenes, and in a
really fascinating way considering it seemed like he had basically
abandoned that to a certain extent in Houston. And now
he's a real matchup problem because he's got size. He's
basically that typical mismatch attacking forward. Now that it's like
(26:37):
you put a small on him, he's just going to
pick him apart. He picked apart the Lakers guards last night.
And so this development being the legitimate defensive perimeter weapon
that he is one of the very best perimeter defenders
in the league, a guy that knows how to play
advantage basketball like he learned in Houston on the offensive end.
(26:58):
But now you're adding this like bona fide mismatch attacking forward,
scoring piece. And he went into Los Angeles and outplayed
Luka Doncic for a night. That's the level that he's
capable of reaching right now. That's how much he's raised
his ceiling from where he was in recent years, and
it's just a truly remarkable development, an internal improvement for
(27:21):
Phoenix that is making them a better basketball team. And
then there's Colin Gillespie. In a lot of ways, his
rises kind of reminded me a little bit of Austin Reeves.
And I'm not trying to make the like, oh, small
white guard comparison there. It's more just the guy who
kind of finds a role on a imbalanced roster just
simply because he's a good, well rounded basketball player. Austin
(27:45):
kind of found his footing in the early part of
his career on a Lakers team that had shipped out
all their good role players in pursuit of Russell Westbrook,
and they were in desperate need of a dude who
just knew how to play, Like a guy who could
do all the little things like scrap for loose balls
and be in the right place in terms of defensive
(28:07):
discipline and attention to detailing the game plan, and like
a guy who could compete on the ball defensively and
at least scrap and guard, but like on the other
end that could like just make smart reads and knock
down an open catch and shoot three and drive a
close out and like, oh, it's the end of a
clock and you need him to run a quick ball screen.
He could run a quick ball screen. That's how Austin
(28:27):
found his initial role with the Lakers, and then he
blossomed over time into a more and more useful on
ball player. Colin Gillespie's track with Phoenix has actually been
very similar toward like last season, on a Suns team
that was woefully imbalanced, too much top end ball handling,
(28:50):
not enough well rounded good role player basketball players, Colin
finds the role we talked about this last year, just
like not getting back cut is offen or not missing
box out as box outs is offen as guys like
Bradley Beal would a guy that would just pay attention
to his role in the game plan do his job,
(29:11):
knock down an open catch and shoot three, run the
occasional ball screen. Oh you went way under or you
ran into the screen. I can hit a pull up three,
or I can get downhill and make a little floater,
make basic reads and driving kicks, convert spot ups at
a decent percentage. That's how Colin found his initial role
with the Suns last year, and then all he's done
(29:35):
is he's continued and taken that to the next level.
This season. He's shooting the absolute shit out of the
basketball off the catch. This is one of the big
differences between him and Austin. He's a little bit more
of like a natural catch and shoot player more as
whereas Austin's more of a natural, like put the ball
on the floor type of scoring guard. Right, but he shot.
He's shooting fifty one percent on catch and shoot threes
(29:57):
this season, shooting well with both contests and without contests.
He can drive a close out, he can hit a
shot in the mid range. He can get all the
way to the rim. He's converting spot ups at one
point three seven points per possession this year out of
one hundred and fifty nine players the log at least
fifty spot ups. That's tenth out of one hundred and
fifty nine. He's been one of the best spot up
players in the league this year. He's shown more and
(30:19):
more off the dribble pop He's hit fifteen threes off
the dribble in pick and roll this year. I can't
remember exactly off the top of my head, but I
think that's more than he hit all season last year
in pick and roll off the dribble, He's massively increased
his pick and roll volume this year. Not quite as
efficient as he was last year, but still just slightly
above average fifty first percent tile hit that game winner
(30:40):
versus Minnesota driving along the right lane line with that
little floater. He's up to thirteen points per game on
sixty one percent true shooting this year. So again, the
comp that I'm trying to draw there with Austin Reeves
is just simply the way that he managed to get
his initial opportunity with the Suns, just by being a
well rounded, disciplined, like fundamentally sound back basketball player in
(31:01):
every facet of the game, and then that blossoming and
to more opportunity this year and him capitalizing on it
through his own internal improvement. So insummation on the Suns,
I thought they'd be like this scrappy team that would
hover just below five hundred, fueled by a good defense
by Devin Booker, just being like a legit floor raising
(31:23):
offensive engine and overall just better buy in and better
vibes with the roster shakeup. But instead they look like
a legit middle tier playoff team in the Western Conference.
And it's because Jordan Not and those defensive wings have
helped Mark Williams become a legitimate defensive anchor, which I
didn't see coming. And because of the explosions offensively of
(31:47):
guys like Dylan Brooks and Colin Gillespie. I'm sure the
Suns fans are thrilled right now, and they should be.
Like I was rooting for the Lakers last night, and
even though I was annoyed by how they were playing,
I actually really enjoyed watching that game because the Sun's
played a really fun brand of basketball. I enjoyed watching
(32:07):
the Suns kick their ass because they were playing such
fun basketball and they're not going anywhere barring severe injuries.
That's a playoff team to me. They look like a
clear top eight in that Western Conference to me. On
(32:29):
the Lakers front, whenever this kind of stuff happens, there's
two different perspectives to take. Right There's the oh, this
is just what happens in the regular season, Like you know,
the Lakers, for instance, playing a really light stretch of
their schedule, building some bad habits, kind of operating at
a different speed. And then Phoenix just played Oakilham City
(32:51):
in Denver, right, So like they're they've been in the
trenches for about a week now. They're operating at like
a higher level of competitiveness and physicality than the Lakers are.
Some kind of stuff will just happen like this in
the regular season whatever, Like just move on, you're fifteen
and five. That's one attitude to have, right. But then
(33:13):
the other side of this is like there were some
real basketball dynamics at play in this game that we've
seen before from this version of this Lakers team against
similar types of opponents, which at least makes it worth
acknowledging as a potential vulnerability with this team. So what
do the Suns do that's different than most NBA teams.
(33:36):
They're big and physical and athletic on the perimeter. They
got guys that they can put on Lebron and on
Luca that make them uncomfortable, make things harder for them,
and on Austin as well. They get up into you
with ball pressure, they try to punk you, they try
to physically dominate you. And it's worth mentioning this is
(33:58):
not the first time that we've seen these Lakers succumb
to that type of pressure and physicality. We saw it
against the Thunder about you know, three weeks ago. We
saw it against the Timberwolves in the first round last year.
It is a legitimate vulnerability with this team. Now, to
(34:19):
be clear, the Lakers are absolutely capable of beating this
type of team. The Lakers have responded to their first
round lost to the Timberwolves by returning the favor at
regular season style. But they've dominated the Timberwolves to start
this season. They beat him with Luca and Austin. They
beat him with just Austin in Minnesota, the Lakers last
(34:41):
year had a couple of great games against the Thunder
before Luca fouled out. It looked or got himself ejected.
It looked like they were going to go to to
zero against the Thunder in the regular season last year,
the same Thunder, that's a transcendently great defense. They handled
the pressure, didn't turn the basketball over, moved the ball
through ocal Alma City's defense, got great shots, knocked them down.
(35:03):
They kicked their ass in one of those two games.
What's the difference. What's the difference between the two wins
against Minnesota this year, the one win against Oklahoma City
last year and the impressive performance against Oklahoma City before
Luca gets ejected. Versus the absolute thrashing they took from
the Thunder this year, the absolute thrashing they took from
(35:26):
the Suns this year, and the embarrassing performance in Round
one against the Timberwolves back in April. What's the difference
between those two outcomes. It's all about their ball handlers
and the way they manage the pressure. In the losses,
Austin and Luca have been bad. They've turned the ball over,
they've looked flustered, they've lost control of the game and transition,
(35:49):
and they've gotten run off the floor. In the wins,
they've methodically handled the pressure. They've made good reads, they've
scored the ball, and they've kept control of the pace
of the game, kept things in the half court and
they've looked great. So, to be clear, vulnerability is not
the same as a dessence. It's just about acknowledging a weakness,
(36:13):
being aware that it's the demon you have to conquer
if you want to reach your ultimate goals in a
seven game series. If you toast off a game or
two where you turn the ball over twenty five times
and give up thirty five points in transition, that can
be a lot to overcome. I just think this is
worth mentioning because when you talk about the conversation surrounding
the potential trade market for the Lakers this year, like
(36:37):
I too, like many others, believe that if the Lakers
can get a legit starting caliber small forward, someone like
a Herb Jones or an Andrew Wiggins, if they can
pull that off, I think they become one of the
legitimate contenders in the league. I think they're on the
same tier with Houston and Denver as a team that
is a legit upset threat against Okac. If we all
acknowledge that Okac is the clear number one, I think
(36:58):
they're a trade away from that. But that's just because
that sort of guy can help them on defense, and
help them athletically, and help anchor some of their best
lineups so that they have a clear five that they
can go to at the end of games. That does
nothing to alleviate this specific vulnerability against this specific type
(37:20):
of opponent. This is a demon that Austin and Luca
have to conquer for them to work together as a
duo moving forward and in the short term for Lebron
as well, for at least this year and maybe next
year as he's part of this system. Having a Herb
Jones on the floor isn't gonna matter if Austin and
(37:43):
Luca can't take care of the ball against big, physical,
athletic perimeter defenders. You know, we talk about this concept
a lot on this show, but like basketball, too often
is presented in absolutes like oh, this team can't do that,
or this player can't do this, or this team sucks
(38:03):
at defense, or this guy can't shoot, and the reality
is all that stuff is determined night tonight. Like nobody
cares if you think Lou Dort can't shoot if he's
making the big threes that save his team in a
big playoff game, like he did a couple times last year.
Nobody cares if you don't think the Denver Nuggets can
(38:24):
play defense if they suddenly defend like a champion in
twenty twenty three on their way to hoisting the trophy.
Nobody cares if you got punked by the Timberwolves in
the first round. Nobody cares like Austin Reeves for example,
Like right now he's viewed as a bad playoff player
because of what happened against Minnesota. After twenty twenty three
(38:45):
you're like, oh my god, eight twenty point playoff games.
This dude's a playoff riser. Like it's all night tonight,
It's all what have you done for me lately? The
narrative is just the narrative that's for guys like me
to talk about. That's not the same is what happens
when you throw the ball up at center court. So
if you're the Lakers, it doesn't matter if you got
(39:07):
punked by the Timberwolves in April, and you got punked
by the Thunder in November and you got punked by
the Suns in December, if you turn around in April
and you face one of those teams and you take
care of the basketball, and you handle the ball pressure
and you pass through their defense, and you score and
(39:29):
knock down shots off of the attention you draw, which
we know they can do because we've seen them do
it to Minnesota this season, we saw them do it
to Oklahoma City last season. They are capable, but they
are also capable of succumbing to it. That's going to
be the determining factor of this Lakers team and what
(39:51):
they can achieve this year. Can they conquer those demons
making that sort of trade for a Herb Jones or
and Andrew Wiggins. That will bolster your talent level, that
will define some of your best lineups, that will give
you better roster balance, that will make you better defensively,
that'll make you better on the glass, that'll make you
more athletic in transition. Those things will certainly help. But
(40:12):
whether or not they beat Oklahoma City, or whether or
not they can handle a first round matchup with a
Minnesota or a random regular season game against Phoenix, or hell,
if Phoenix jumps up to seven and the Lakers get
the two seed and you end up facing them in
the first round, if the Lakers are going to beat
that sort of team, that is going to come down
(40:32):
to their stars and them conquering the demon of being
able to handle that ball pressure and not turn the
basketball over. The beautiful thing about the game of basketball
is you almost always get another chance to prove yourself.
You live to fight another day. The Lakers will play
Phoenix again on December twenty third. Go into Phoenix, take
(40:54):
care of the basketball, play better on offense. Beat those dudes.
No one's gonna give a damn what happened on December first,
The Lakers will play some good teams on this road trip.
Toronto's a good basketball team, another big, physical, athletic team
that likes to run the floor. In transition, they're going
to present a challenge on Thursday Night. That'll be another opportunity. Right.
(41:15):
A couple of weeks from now, the Lakers might get
San Antonio and Oklahoma City in the nd season tournament.
San Antonio, big physical perimeter team. Oklahoma City is the
rematch of that destructive blowout they experience in November. So
they are going to get more chances throughout this season
to try to address this, and inevitably in the probably
(41:38):
in the first round at the very latest, by the
second or third round, they're going to face one of
these teams that's big and physical on the perimeter, that
can get up in them and make their guys uncomfortable.
And they're gonna have to conquer that demon that is
separate from any roster concern. That is the conquering that
this Lakers team needs to do in order to reach
their goals. All right, guys, it's all I have for
(42:00):
today is always I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
us and supporting the show. Again. I know I wanted
to do that deep dive into Phoenix today. I know
we spent like a half hour there. But like we
will get to plenty of more teams throughout the rest
of this week, we'll have more game reaction tomorrow. As always,
I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting
the show, and I will see you tomorrow morning.
The volume. All right, welcome to hoopson I here at
the volume. Happy Tuesday, everybody, hope if you guys are
having a great start to your week. A wild night
(00:21):
in the NBA last night, all sorts of weird games.
Houston loses on the road in Utah, a game where
they couldn't stop fouling down the stretches. They had this
bizarre stretch where they committed I think five fouls on
one single possession. The Dallas Mavericks when their second consecutive
game going on the road into Denver. Ryan Emhart has
(00:42):
a massive night, Cooper Flag playing two of his best
games as a young pro. Anthony Davis monster night. Lots
of weird stuff, but I'm going to be zooming in
on Suns Lakers from last night. We haven't done a
deep dive on the Suns in a while, and I
really want to dig into why they've been so much
better than we even expected. I thought the Suns would
(01:03):
be feisty this year, kind of looked at them as
a team that would be a pain in the ass
to play on any given night. But now they're looking
like a bona fide playoff team. And that is coming
down to a handful of pieces with internal improvement, the
development of Mark Williams into a foundational defensive center, Dylan
Brooks blowing up into like a legitimate score in this league,
(01:24):
Colin Gillespie flashing a little bit of that Austin Reeves
esque development trajectory as a role player guard into a
little bit more and a little bit more each time
we see him. I want to do a deep dive
into the suns. After that, I will talk about you know, again,
this happens, it's December. You lose a bad game, or
you lose a game like this where you look bad
(01:46):
if you're the Lakers. But I do think that there's
a disturbing trend with them getting punked by some of
these bigger, physical, athletic perimeter teams, and I want to
talk about what that specifically means for the Lakers and
their short term and long term goals as currently constructed.
You guys know the joke before we get started to
subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't
(02:08):
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Don't forget about our podcast feed where you get your
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(02:28):
the last but not least, if you guys want to
get mail bag questions into our mail bags, you can
drop them in our full episodes on YouTube in the
comments right mail bag with a colon writes your question.
That helps me sort through them as I'm looking through.
And we will have our next mail bag coming up
on this Friday. All right, let's talk some basketball. So
you know, I want to take the game itself and
(02:50):
I want to focus more on some of the big
picture stuff for both of these teams. Obviously, the game itself,
it's combination of an incredibly impressive performance by the Phoenix
and an incredibly disappointing performance by the Los Angeles Lakers.
They led by as much as twenty five in this
game Phoenix did. And there's a tendency on nights like
last night, just to chalk things up to December basketball, right,
(03:14):
like that's Knights like last night. Happened a lot in
the NBA, where it's like Houston losing in Utah as
a classic example. Houston's been one of the most impressive
teams in the league to start this season, and they
could not stop making mistakes down the stretch against the Jazz,
Denver losing to Dallas. Denver has a few kind of
bizarre bad losses as of late. Am I about to
(03:35):
panic about the Lakers because they looked bad on a
Monday in December to drop to fifteen to five. No,
of course not. We're not gonna get melodramatic today. But
I do think there is plenty to learn from that game.
First of all, Phoenix is a really good basketball team,
and they have some very exciting developments in terms of
(03:56):
internal improvement that have made them even more dangerous than
I thought they would be before the season. And then
on the Lakers front, Phoenix presented some physical challenges and
a game plan that caused the Lakers to spiral in
a way that we've seen before against Oklahoma City back
(04:16):
in November, or against Minnesota back in the playoffs last
year in the first round. I think those are real
demons that the Lakers will have to conquer if they
want to reach their goals. We're gonna get to the
Lakers later, though. We haven't done a deep dive on
the Suns in a while, so I want to deep
dive in on Phoenix, and I want to start with
their defense. There are things with the Suns this season
(04:38):
that I expected, but there have also been some things
that I've been genuinely surprised by. I expected them to
be a good defense. It just made sense structurally. You
have a guy like Ryan Dunn heading into his second
year who's very dynamic and versatile on the perimeter as
the defender. He's got strength, he's got speed, he compete,
(05:00):
he's got a good motor. Lots of really exciting stuff there.
You go into a second season, you expect him to
experience a good amount of improvement on that end of
the floor, and then you turn Kevin Durant into Dylan Brooks.
That's obviously a talent downgrade, right, but Dylan Brooks is
legitimately one of the best perimeter defenders in the entire NBA,
and similar to Ryan Dunn, he can guard a pretty
(05:22):
wide range of players. So you add a second guy
in that Ryan Dunn ilk of this big, physical, awesome
perimeter defender when this team was lacking that type of
player last year. But then you look down the roster
and everyone else on the perimeter. As a plus, Devin
(05:42):
Booker was literally the primary point of attack guy on
many nights for Team USA a couple of summers ago.
Royce O'Neil is a solid perimeter defender. Jordan Goodwin is
a solid perimeter defender. Colin Gillespie and Grayson Allen, those
are guys who compete. They're physical, they're usually in the
right spot, they have good game plan discipline, and they
(06:03):
have some defensive talent at the center position, some guys
who can switch a little bit, plenty of foot speed,
and some real length in the form of guys like
Mark Williams and come on, malowatch right, that was what
I saw coming into the season, and I'm like, oh,
this is going to be a good defense. But then
I watched them come out and physically punch the Lakers
in the mouth in their first preseason game. You guys
(06:24):
remember that we covered that preseason game, and I was like, Okay,
not only do they have the pieces on paper, but
they also look clearly bought in. This is going to
be a pain in the ass to deal with on
any given night in the NBA. I specifically predicted before
the season that they'd be the type of team who
would beat the really good Western Conference teams on any
(06:47):
given night where they don't bring the appropriate effort and focus.
In other words, I thought they'd be the royal pain
in the ass type of team in the West playoff picture.
But I figured they'd be something like thirty seven and
forty five, some really fun wins against good teams, some
(07:07):
fun nights for the fans, but no real threat, like,
no real any sort of like consistent success. That's gonna
be something people have to account for in the playoff picture.
Forget all of that. They look like a legitimate playoff team,
Like at this point, they look pretty well entrenched as
(07:28):
a top eight seed in the West. It's still early.
Dudes could get hurt, Devin Booker growing injury last night,
things could fall apart. But to me, they look a
lot more like a forty five and thirty seventeen than
a thirty seven and forty five team. So the question is,
why why is it that the Suns on a year
(07:49):
where they lose Bradley Beal and they trade Kevin Durant
that they suddenly are looking like a team that could
very well be better than they were last year. And
there's two for that. One is the internal development on offense,
which we'll get too later on guys like Calling Gillespie,
guys like Dylan Brooks. We'll get to that later. The
(08:10):
second piece of it, though, is the internal development on defense,
specifically with Mark Williams as a drop coverage big. I
remember when the Lakers made that ill fated Dalton connect
for Mark Williams trade last year, shortly before the deadline.
I did a pretty extensive scout on Mark Williams, and
(08:32):
I thought he looked bad on defense. He obviously had
the tools, He's got good mobility, he's got a ridiculous
wingspan for the position. But his instincts were rough. He
made a ton of mistakes. He'd, you know, try to
block shots he had no business blocking and give up
offensive rebounds, or he'd aggressively show and help and give
an easy drop off for a donkey. Just looked like
(08:52):
a guy that really struggled with the basic decision making
process of rim protection of like when to go for
the shot versus when to stay home to some basic fundamentals.
He looked like he was a real mistake maker. So
I viewed him as a offensive weapon, a guy that
could help Luca on the role as a vertical spacer.
Guy was a good offensive rebounder of always like underrated
(09:14):
as a guy who could like grab offensive rebounds and
make kickout passes to three point shooters, a lot more
connective passing, short role passing ability than you'd think. I'm like, oh,
this will be a good offensive weapon for Luca, But
this guy can't guard and that's going to be an issue,
and there were the health concerns. Right, Phoenix has turned
him into a legitimate defensive anchor, which I did not
(09:37):
see coming. This is a credit to Brian Gregory. He
made a big bet on just how incompetent Charlotte was
in terms of the talent they had on the floor
and the way they were using him. And I think
that Brian Gregory just looked at that and was like,
Charlotte's at least partially responsible for Mark not being a
good defender. We can turn him around. And then second,
(10:01):
you have to credit Jordan not for creating an achievable
defensive role for him with the talent they had available.
We often refer to drop coverage on the show as
a bracket. Okay, why is it bracket Because there's two
sides to the coverage. There's the big who's keeping the
(10:23):
ball handler and the big in front in a deep
drop or at least keeping the ballhandler in front and
high drop right. And then there's the top part of
the bracket, which is the on ball defender getting over
the top of the screen, staying attached, back pressuring, getting
a rear view contest. And one of the things that's
(10:44):
kind of difficult with evaluating bigs and drop coverage, and
this is some of the one of the things I
underrated when I was scouting Mark Williams's film in Charlotte
is the job of the drop coverage big is substantially
harder when the point of attack defense isn't good. When
the top part of the bracket isn't good, and that
ball handler is easily getting over the top of the
(11:06):
screen and he has lots of separation from his defender
and he's super comfortable operating in the mid range, he
can manipulate the drop coverage Big easier because that drop
coverage Big also has a responsibility to offer contest on
those mid range shots. There's a little dance you do.
You're back pedaling, you're stunting and contesting at the guard
(11:29):
while making sure you keep that role man in front
of you, right, and if that guy's coming free and
clear off the screen, he's gonna engage you easier. It's
gonna look more like a traditional two on one where
like you jump to the guard and it's a lob dunk,
or you stay back and that dude's getting easy twos
(11:50):
or going right at you at the rim right. If
the guy on the top part of the bracket isn't
doing his job, it makes it really difficult. But when
you have Ryan Done, when you have Dylan Brooks, and
those dudes are getting up into the ball, making dudes
uncomfortable from the opening tip staying attached over the top
(12:13):
of screens, basically funneling you into the paint the ball handler,
making it so that dude doesn't have a lot of
comfort in the mid range but rather is just driving
into your length. It suddenly becomes a very tenable dynamic
for a talented drop coverage Big. That specific dynamic. The
(12:39):
ability of done In Brooks to pressure the ball and
stay attached from behind, while Mark Williams's giant wingspan is
swallowing everything up at the basket as they're getting funneled
in is literally what broke the Lakers offense last night.
And I want to give Jordan not some more credit
here because this did not go well early in the game.
(13:03):
His idea was, we're gonna run a traditional drop coverage
and we're going to guard that action two on two,
meaning Dunner Brooks is going to chase Mark Williams is
going to be there in the drop. The other three dudes,
they might stunt and recover a little bit of like
opportunistic playmaking, but for the most part, those dudes are
(13:23):
going to stay home. That leaves the coverage two on
two that is going to dictate the flow of the
game more towards Luka Doncic scoring the basketball. We talked
about this a lot over the course of the last
couple of games with the Lakers. I talked about it
yesterday in our Power Rankings show against the Pelicans. Luca
comes out and he's facing a lot of single coverage
(13:47):
and two on two in pick and roll, so he's
looking to score, and he scores, scores coorse coorse coorse
core score. And then suddenly by the middle of the
second quarter, it's we're anybody but Luca, please, We're blitzing
the hell out of this dude, give up the basketball
right Versus the Dallas game where Jason Kidd comes out
and he's doubling Luka Doncicch like from the opening tip,
and it's a little bit different dynamic. It's dictating Luca
(14:09):
more towards passing the basketball right. So Jordanott's game plan
last night, he wants to guard these pick and rolls
two on two. He's willing to live with Luca as
a score. And Luca's scores yet another twenty point first quarter,
something he's been doing a lot more often as of late. Now,
the overreaction would be, shit, Luca torched us, let's adjust,
(14:33):
let's start blitzing. Now all of a sudden, it's going
to be four on threes for Lebron and Austin off
the ball, and it's going to cause all sorts of
problems on the backside of your defense. There was no
overreaction from Jordan not he's stuck with the game plan,
and even though Luca was awesome in the first quarter,
he started to fall apart as the game went along
and really really started to turn the basketball over. They
(14:54):
turned Luca over nine times yesterday. How do those turnovers happen? Yes,
there were some un you know, kind of unforced ones
where you know, Luca's forcing ridiculous up the court passes
to cover Lebron or overthrowing Ruie running the running up
the lane line right Like. There were some unforced errors,
(15:15):
but most of those were a product of the fact
that when Lucas started to work against the two on two,
like he turned one over to Bouier in the right corner,
and it's like, do you staying home when those guys
are home? They're in the passing lanes. Lucas specifically mentioned
in the postgame presser that he was kind of confused
(15:37):
by the coverage. He got confused because of the fact
that he was getting defended two on two and it
felt like he was in a crowd because Mark Williams
is there and the dudes draped on his backside in
back pressure and they're kind of stunting and recovering, but
they're actually home. That's he was confused because it felt
(15:59):
like he was in a crowd when the action was
actually only getting guarded to on two. That's the dynamic
that you when you have the right kind of talent,
when you have the types of on ball players that
Phoenix has and the drop coverage big that Mark Williams
is in terms of his length around the basket, you
can make things feel congested when they actually aren't, and
(16:22):
that's what it can start turning into those turnovers. And
then JJ Reddick mentioned this after the game, but a
lot there were a couple of times where JJ or
where Luca got deep penetration and was like in around
the basket and there were swarms, but he had opportunities
to throw kickout passes, but he couldn't see them, and
he couldn't see them because Mark Williams' long ass arms
(16:43):
are going like this. And JJ mentioned that after the game,
Mark Williams and his length caused a problem for Luca
getting the ball through those coverages. And I just I
just think a big thing that we underrated, and myself
included that we underrated about this Phoenix Sun's defense is
they've turned Mark Williams into a legitimate defensive anchor drop
(17:07):
coverage big and they were able to successfully guard the
Lakers and pick and roll two on two most of
the night last night without giving up too much. And
by the way, the Suns this season are nine points
per one hundred possessions better on defense with Mark Williams
on the floor versus off, and I do think it's
(17:29):
worth mentioning beyond the two man games, So beyond the
dun and Williams or Brooks and Williams two man defensive
sequences against pick and roll, I thought the Suns as
a team were incredibly sharp with their help and recover
decisions and their rotations to shooters. A lot of sequences
where guys made opportunistic digs but then got back out,
or the Lakers did manage to not turn the basketball
(17:51):
over and kick out to somebody, but there was a
great close out that would chase it, Gabe Vincent off
the line, or chase him maxically ab off the liner,
Chase at Dalton connect off the line, a lot of
really good closeouts. I just thought they played a very
good defensive game last night Phoenix. That was the number
one half court offense in the entire NBA. In the
(18:11):
Lakers that the Suns faced last night. They held them
to a ninety nine offensive rating in the half court,
which is about seven points per one hundred possessions below
their season average. And that's obviously impressive in and of itself,
but the real damage was done on the margins. They
forced twenty two turnovers, and again some of them were unforced,
(18:31):
but many of them were like poke aways by their
on ball guys. You know, Ryan Done poking the ball
away from a Luca or Austin or like Mark Williams,
like we talked about forcing turnovers on kickouts with his
length around the rim. I think Phoenix deserves a ton
of credit for the job they did disrupting a great
Lakers offense. Those turnovers allowed them to get out and transition,
(18:53):
and they bludgeoned them in transition. The Suns scored thirty
two points off of Lakers turnovers in this game. They
outscored the Lakers twenty eight to two on the fast break.
That's basically the difference in the game. So, in other words,
the Suns defended so well that they played the Lakers
into a below average offensive game, and they forced a
(19:15):
ton of turnovers which fed their transition attack where they dominated,
and again I just want to credit every one of
the Suns, like Brian Gregory for the moves he made
this summer to balance out the roster, the bet he
made on Mark Williams, Jordanot for building a scheme that
matches the talent really well, and from day one of
the season getting a level of buy in from this
(19:36):
roster that they didn't have in years past. And the
guys in that locker room have been playing great defense.
They just deserve a lot of credit. Now it's moved
the offensive vent Dylan brooks Man. Today's show is brought
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But then he goes to Houston and Imai Uduka basically
(21:26):
gets him to stop taking those tougher shots, especially like
those pull up mid range twos, and suddenly his shot
diets skews way more heavily towards like that typical three
and d archetype. Now, he still did it every once
in a while, but for the most part, he trimmed
the fat out of his game and he literally became
one of the very best role players in the entire NBA.
(21:48):
And he was a big part of that turnaround in Houston.
His efficiency skyrocketed, basically became one of the best perimeter
defenders in the league. Just an awesome player who looked
at its very worth. The contract that he end up signing.
I think it was like four years, eighty million or
whatever it was at that point in time. It was
for that reason that I actually really liked this trade
(22:10):
for Phoenix. I thought turning Kevin Durant into Dylan Brooks
was obviously a talent downgrade, but it was the perfect
roster balancing trade, especially with an aging Kevin Durant. And
it's worth mentioning that we still haven't even seen Jalen
Green yet. I've two games before he reinjured the hamstring.
But we may end up seeing even more returns out
of that deal. However, I don't think any of us
(22:33):
could have seen this type of offensive explosion from Dylan,
especially after essentially trimming that from his game in Houston.
All of those good looking ISO moves from his time
in Memphis, the ones he was clanking left and right
now they're going in last night was not an outlier performance.
(22:54):
That was his ninth twenty plus point game of the season.
That was his sixth twenty five plus point game of
the season. It was his third thirty point game he's averaging.
Dylan Brooks averaging twenty five points per game over his
last ten games. He's shooting sixty one percent from two
(23:16):
point range. During that span. He's been deadly accurate on
pull ups thirty four for seventy one on pull up
twos this year, six for twelve on floaters. That's just
under fifty percent on pretty high volume. In the mid range.
He's sixty six percent at the rim. We didn't see
too much of this last night, but he's bullying dudes
like to the basket for layups on a lot of
(23:39):
his drives. Really, the only thing he's not shooting well
this year is the three, which is strange because he
shot it pretty well in Houston. So maybe it'll come
around as the season goes along. He certainly hit a
few last night, and it's making him into a legitimate
offensive weapon in this league. Dylan has run sixty nine
post ups in ISOs, so sixty nine to one on ones.
(24:00):
He generated seventy seven points including passes. That's one point
one to two points per possession. That's insanely good for
one on ones. I'm pretty good volume. He's also been
a good ball screen player. He's hit six of his
nine pull up threes in pick and roll. He's shooting
sixty three percent on twos in pick and roll, He's
run seventy eight of them. He's got one point two
(24:22):
to three points per possession including passes. That's incredible, And
the main thing I want to emphasize here is just
how much work Dylan has done behind the scenes to
continue to refine this part of his game. He has
actually some decent natural talent. As a score I always
talk about scoring as a three part skill. You have
(24:45):
to have this audacious personality, like you have to be
confident enough to think I don't need to score on
open shots or drive clothes outs, like I can get
a bucket on this dude one on one. There is
an odd dacious confidence piece to it. Then there's a
creativity piece to it. There's like a dance, a counter move,
(25:10):
like a move counter move dance to scoring. And there's
a natural instinct element to it that's like a creativity
and some dudes just don't have that. Some dudes are
just too robotic. They struggle with that natural dance of
move counter move. And then the third piece of it
is you have to have the touch to actually make shots.
(25:30):
Dylan always had those first two pieces. We all know,
damn well. Dylan has the audaciousness, he has the confidence.
That kind of stuff always came naturally to Dylan. Then
there's the creativity piece, like we talked about in Memphis.
He had the natural kind of like move counter move dance.
(25:53):
He would make these really nice one on one moves
and just miss the shot. The audacious in the creativity
those are natural talents for Dylan. What has happened is
he worked his ass off behind the scenes to turn
himself into a real shot maker, not just a shooter,
(26:14):
but a maker. And the thousands and thousands of reps
that must have taken behind the scenes, and in a
really fascinating way considering it seemed like he had basically
abandoned that to a certain extent in Houston. And now
he's a real matchup problem because he's got size. He's
basically that typical mismatch attacking forward. Now that it's like
(26:37):
you put a small on him, he's just going to
pick him apart. He picked apart the Lakers guards last night.
And so this development being the legitimate defensive perimeter weapon
that he is one of the very best perimeter defenders
in the league, a guy that knows how to play
advantage basketball like he learned in Houston on the offensive end.
(26:58):
But now you're adding this like bona fide mismatch attacking forward,
scoring piece. And he went into Los Angeles and outplayed
Luka Doncic for a night. That's the level that he's
capable of reaching right now. That's how much he's raised
his ceiling from where he was in recent years, and
it's just a truly remarkable development, an internal improvement for
(27:21):
Phoenix that is making them a better basketball team. And
then there's Colin Gillespie. In a lot of ways, his
rises kind of reminded me a little bit of Austin Reeves.
And I'm not trying to make the like, oh, small
white guard comparison there. It's more just the guy who
kind of finds a role on a imbalanced roster just
simply because he's a good, well rounded basketball player. Austin
(27:45):
kind of found his footing in the early part of
his career on a Lakers team that had shipped out
all their good role players in pursuit of Russell Westbrook,
and they were in desperate need of a dude who
just knew how to play, Like a guy who could
do all the little things like scrap for loose balls
and be in the right place in terms of defensive
(28:07):
discipline and attention to detailing the game plan, and like
a guy who could compete on the ball defensively and
at least scrap and guard, but like on the other
end that could like just make smart reads and knock
down an open catch and shoot three and drive a
close out and like, oh, it's the end of a
clock and you need him to run a quick ball screen.
He could run a quick ball screen. That's how Austin
(28:27):
found his initial role with the Lakers, and then he
blossomed over time into a more and more useful on
ball player. Colin Gillespie's track with Phoenix has actually been
very similar toward like last season, on a Suns team
that was woefully imbalanced, too much top end ball handling,
(28:50):
not enough well rounded good role player basketball players, Colin
finds the role we talked about this last year, just
like not getting back cut is offen or not missing
box out as box outs is offen as guys like
Bradley Beal would a guy that would just pay attention
to his role in the game plan do his job,
(29:11):
knock down an open catch and shoot three, run the
occasional ball screen. Oh you went way under or you
ran into the screen. I can hit a pull up three,
or I can get downhill and make a little floater,
make basic reads and driving kicks, convert spot ups at
a decent percentage. That's how Colin found his initial role
with the Suns last year, and then all he's done
(29:35):
is he's continued and taken that to the next level.
This season. He's shooting the absolute shit out of the
basketball off the catch. This is one of the big
differences between him and Austin. He's a little bit more
of like a natural catch and shoot player more as
whereas Austin's more of a natural, like put the ball
on the floor type of scoring guard. Right, but he shot.
He's shooting fifty one percent on catch and shoot threes
(29:57):
this season, shooting well with both contests and without contests.
He can drive a close out, he can hit a
shot in the mid range. He can get all the
way to the rim. He's converting spot ups at one
point three seven points per possession this year out of
one hundred and fifty nine players the log at least
fifty spot ups. That's tenth out of one hundred and
fifty nine. He's been one of the best spot up
players in the league this year. He's shown more and
(30:19):
more off the dribble pop He's hit fifteen threes off
the dribble in pick and roll this year. I can't
remember exactly off the top of my head, but I
think that's more than he hit all season last year
in pick and roll off the dribble, He's massively increased
his pick and roll volume this year. Not quite as
efficient as he was last year, but still just slightly
above average fifty first percent tile hit that game winner
(30:40):
versus Minnesota driving along the right lane line with that
little floater. He's up to thirteen points per game on
sixty one percent true shooting this year. So again, the
comp that I'm trying to draw there with Austin Reeves
is just simply the way that he managed to get
his initial opportunity with the Suns, just by being a
well rounded, disciplined, like fundamentally sound back basketball player in
(31:01):
every facet of the game, and then that blossoming and
to more opportunity this year and him capitalizing on it
through his own internal improvement. So insummation on the Suns,
I thought they'd be like this scrappy team that would
hover just below five hundred, fueled by a good defense
by Devin Booker, just being like a legit floor raising
(31:23):
offensive engine and overall just better buy in and better
vibes with the roster shakeup. But instead they look like
a legit middle tier playoff team in the Western Conference.
And it's because Jordan Not and those defensive wings have
helped Mark Williams become a legitimate defensive anchor, which I
didn't see coming. And because of the explosions offensively of
(31:47):
guys like Dylan Brooks and Colin Gillespie. I'm sure the
Suns fans are thrilled right now, and they should be.
Like I was rooting for the Lakers last night, and
even though I was annoyed by how they were playing,
I actually really enjoyed watching that game because the Sun's
played a really fun brand of basketball. I enjoyed watching
(32:07):
the Suns kick their ass because they were playing such
fun basketball and they're not going anywhere barring severe injuries.
That's a playoff team to me. They look like a
clear top eight in that Western Conference to me. On
(32:29):
the Lakers front, whenever this kind of stuff happens, there's
two different perspectives to take. Right There's the oh, this
is just what happens in the regular season, Like you know,
the Lakers, for instance, playing a really light stretch of
their schedule, building some bad habits, kind of operating at
a different speed. And then Phoenix just played Oakilham City
(32:51):
in Denver, right, So like they're they've been in the
trenches for about a week now. They're operating at like
a higher level of competitiveness and physicality than the Lakers are.
Some kind of stuff will just happen like this in
the regular season whatever, Like just move on, you're fifteen
and five. That's one attitude to have, right. But then
(33:13):
the other side of this is like there were some
real basketball dynamics at play in this game that we've
seen before from this version of this Lakers team against
similar types of opponents, which at least makes it worth
acknowledging as a potential vulnerability with this team. So what
do the Suns do that's different than most NBA teams.
(33:36):
They're big and physical and athletic on the perimeter. They
got guys that they can put on Lebron and on
Luca that make them uncomfortable, make things harder for them,
and on Austin as well. They get up into you
with ball pressure, they try to punk you, they try
to physically dominate you. And it's worth mentioning this is
(33:58):
not the first time that we've seen these Lakers succumb
to that type of pressure and physicality. We saw it
against the Thunder about you know, three weeks ago. We
saw it against the Timberwolves in the first round last year.
It is a legitimate vulnerability with this team. Now, to
(34:19):
be clear, the Lakers are absolutely capable of beating this
type of team. The Lakers have responded to their first
round lost to the Timberwolves by returning the favor at
regular season style. But they've dominated the Timberwolves to start
this season. They beat him with Luca and Austin. They
beat him with just Austin in Minnesota, the Lakers last
(34:41):
year had a couple of great games against the Thunder
before Luca fouled out. It looked or got himself ejected.
It looked like they were going to go to to
zero against the Thunder in the regular season last year,
the same Thunder, that's a transcendently great defense. They handled
the pressure, didn't turn the basketball over, moved the ball
through ocal Alma City's defense, got great shots, knocked them down.
(35:03):
They kicked their ass in one of those two games.
What's the difference. What's the difference between the two wins
against Minnesota this year, the one win against Oklahoma City
last year and the impressive performance against Oklahoma City before
Luca gets ejected. Versus the absolute thrashing they took from
the Thunder this year, the absolute thrashing they took from
(35:26):
the Suns this year, and the embarrassing performance in Round
one against the Timberwolves back in April. What's the difference
between those two outcomes. It's all about their ball handlers
and the way they manage the pressure. In the losses,
Austin and Luca have been bad. They've turned the ball over,
they've looked flustered, they've lost control of the game and transition,
(35:49):
and they've gotten run off the floor. In the wins,
they've methodically handled the pressure. They've made good reads, they've
scored the ball, and they've kept control of the pace
of the game, kept things in the half court and
they've looked great. So, to be clear, vulnerability is not
the same as a dessence. It's just about acknowledging a weakness,
(36:13):
being aware that it's the demon you have to conquer
if you want to reach your ultimate goals in a
seven game series. If you toast off a game or
two where you turn the ball over twenty five times
and give up thirty five points in transition, that can
be a lot to overcome. I just think this is
worth mentioning because when you talk about the conversation surrounding
the potential trade market for the Lakers this year, like
(36:37):
I too, like many others, believe that if the Lakers
can get a legit starting caliber small forward, someone like
a Herb Jones or an Andrew Wiggins, if they can
pull that off, I think they become one of the
legitimate contenders in the league. I think they're on the
same tier with Houston and Denver as a team that
is a legit upset threat against Okac. If we all
acknowledge that Okac is the clear number one, I think
(36:58):
they're a trade away from that. But that's just because
that sort of guy can help them on defense, and
help them athletically, and help anchor some of their best
lineups so that they have a clear five that they
can go to at the end of games. That does
nothing to alleviate this specific vulnerability against this specific type
(37:20):
of opponent. This is a demon that Austin and Luca
have to conquer for them to work together as a
duo moving forward and in the short term for Lebron
as well, for at least this year and maybe next
year as he's part of this system. Having a Herb
Jones on the floor isn't gonna matter if Austin and
(37:43):
Luca can't take care of the ball against big, physical,
athletic perimeter defenders. You know, we talk about this concept
a lot on this show, but like basketball, too often
is presented in absolutes like oh, this team can't do that,
or this player can't do this, or this team sucks
(38:03):
at defense, or this guy can't shoot, and the reality
is all that stuff is determined night tonight. Like nobody
cares if you think Lou Dort can't shoot if he's
making the big threes that save his team in a
big playoff game, like he did a couple times last year.
Nobody cares if you don't think the Denver Nuggets can
(38:24):
play defense if they suddenly defend like a champion in
twenty twenty three on their way to hoisting the trophy.
Nobody cares if you got punked by the Timberwolves in
the first round. Nobody cares like Austin Reeves for example,
Like right now he's viewed as a bad playoff player
because of what happened against Minnesota. After twenty twenty three
(38:45):
you're like, oh my god, eight twenty point playoff games.
This dude's a playoff riser. Like it's all night tonight,
It's all what have you done for me lately? The
narrative is just the narrative that's for guys like me
to talk about. That's not the same is what happens
when you throw the ball up at center court. So
if you're the Lakers, it doesn't matter if you got
(39:07):
punked by the Timberwolves in April, and you got punked
by the Thunder in November and you got punked by
the Suns in December, if you turn around in April
and you face one of those teams and you take
care of the basketball, and you handle the ball pressure
and you pass through their defense, and you score and
(39:29):
knock down shots off of the attention you draw, which
we know they can do because we've seen them do
it to Minnesota this season, we saw them do it
to Oklahoma City last season. They are capable, but they
are also capable of succumbing to it. That's going to
be the determining factor of this Lakers team and what
(39:51):
they can achieve this year. Can they conquer those demons
making that sort of trade for a Herb Jones or
and Andrew Wiggins. That will bolster your talent level, that
will define some of your best lineups, that will give
you better roster balance, that will make you better defensively,
that'll make you better on the glass, that'll make you
more athletic in transition. Those things will certainly help. But
(40:12):
whether or not they beat Oklahoma City, or whether or
not they can handle a first round matchup with a
Minnesota or a random regular season game against Phoenix, or hell,
if Phoenix jumps up to seven and the Lakers get
the two seed and you end up facing them in
the first round, if the Lakers are going to beat
that sort of team, that is going to come down
(40:32):
to their stars and them conquering the demon of being
able to handle that ball pressure and not turn the
basketball over. The beautiful thing about the game of basketball
is you almost always get another chance to prove yourself.
You live to fight another day. The Lakers will play
Phoenix again on December twenty third. Go into Phoenix, take
(40:54):
care of the basketball, play better on offense. Beat those dudes.
No one's gonna give a damn what happened on December first,
The Lakers will play some good teams on this road trip.
Toronto's a good basketball team, another big, physical, athletic team
that likes to run the floor. In transition, they're going
to present a challenge on Thursday Night. That'll be another opportunity. Right.
(41:15):
A couple of weeks from now, the Lakers might get
San Antonio and Oklahoma City in the nd season tournament.
San Antonio, big physical perimeter team. Oklahoma City is the
rematch of that destructive blowout they experience in November. So
they are going to get more chances throughout this season
to try to address this, and inevitably in the probably
(41:38):
in the first round at the very latest, by the
second or third round, they're going to face one of
these teams that's big and physical on the perimeter, that
can get up in them and make their guys uncomfortable.
And they're gonna have to conquer that demon that is
separate from any roster concern. That is the conquering that
this Lakers team needs to do in order to reach
their goals. All right, guys, it's all I have for
(42:00):
today is always I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
us and supporting the show. Again. I know I wanted
to do that deep dive into Phoenix today. I know
we spent like a half hour there. But like we
will get to plenty of more teams throughout the rest
of this week, we'll have more game reaction tomorrow. As always,
I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting
the show, and I will see you tomorrow morning.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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