May 26, 2025 • 47 mins
Colin Cowherd joins the show with Jason and they react live after the New York Knicks come back to win Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Finals over the Indiana Pacers. They discuss Jalen Brunson and Karl-Anthony Towns leading a big comeback over Tyrese Haliburton and if the Knicks have a chance in the rest of the series. They also discuss Caitlin Clark’s impact on the WNBA and how she’s lifting the league to new heights with the Indiana Fever.
#Volume #Herd
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could
be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA
Playoffs where heroes rise, legacies are built, and the action
never lets up. And with DraftKings Sports Book and official
sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just watch
the madness, you live it. Back your favorite team, ride
with your clutch, time killer, bet on the buzzer beaters,
(00:26):
the breakout performances, the game winning threes, from player props
to same game parlays. This is how you take your
fandom to the next level. The New York Knicks, after
beating the Celtics are up to plus three sixty, is
the second best odds to win the title. Surprisingly, the
Pacers back at plus six hundred because my initial thought
(00:46):
on that series is I want to pick the Pacers.
But some interesting championship oods right now. New to the game,
no sweat, Download the DraftKings Sportsbook, gap bet just five
dollars and if your bet wins, you'll score three hundred
dollars in bonus bets. It's that easy. I don't know
the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code hoops. That's code
hoops hoops for new customers to get three hundred dollars
(01:07):
in bonus bets if your bet wins. When you bet
just five bucks only on DraftKings, the Crown is yours.
Gambling problem called one hundred gambler In New York call
eight seven seven eight hope and why, or text hope
and why to four six seven three six y nine.
In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call eight
eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
CCPG dot org.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort
in Kansas twenty one plus. Age and eligibility varies by
jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward.
Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance.
For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKG dot
co slash audio. All right, welcome to hoops tonight here
(02:03):
at the volume heavy Sunday everybody. I hope all of
you guys are having a great weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Colin Coward was very kind to join us tonight with
this time and this time. Two days ago, we were
looking at a what looked like the Indiana Pacers on
their way to potentially a sweep to go to the finals.
We're talking about trading Karl Anthony Towns. Everyone's blowing a
bunch of smoke about the Thunder and how they're the
all time great team. And now we're sitting here on
Sunday evening and both series are two to one and
(02:30):
very very different.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Colin.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
My initial read was just simply that this is more
or less where the Eastern Conference Finals should be at
this point in that I thought the Knicks looked like
the better team in Game one and they blew it,
And I thought the Pacers looked like the better team
tonight that I thought they let their foot off the
gas in a lot of ways. The Knicks did find
some stuff, and we'll get into that, but Carl Anthony
town steals this game just like Aaron Nesmith stole Game one,
(02:54):
and it kind of feels like we're supposed to be
two to one Indy and here we are too one Indie.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, I mean, they're really different. At one point, the
Pacers had a sixteen to nothing fast break points advantage.
I mean, you can tell Indiana always wants to push
the pace, but tonight it was basically in the half
court Carl Anthony Towns with Jalen Brunson off the floor
for most of it. He had one of these Carl
Anthony Towns games. And I think I've told you this before.
(03:21):
It was a weird thing. I swear to god. I
went to about six NBA games. He played in five
of them. There was this stretch in LA. Every time
I went to a game he was playing, and he's
in all of them. He had a quarterway he was
the best player on the floor by long shot. And
he does this and you know, for a guy his size,
like his first step, for a guy his size, like
(03:44):
he is quick, and then he gets by you and
he's long and he's angular and he's a handful. He's
a handful for a big and I've just seen him
do stuff like this before. But I thought with Brunson
off the floor, you know sometimes when you're a really
gifted player and you play with a ball centric great player.
(04:05):
This was Brunson in Dallas, you know, like he would
be like it was Luca's show, and then you put
him in New York and this is one of those
were in a weird way. It was like Karl Anthony
two the team was just looking for him to lead,
and we both know that he can do this. He
doesn't sustain it, he gets in foul trouble. He can
be inefficient, he's flaky. But and then I think, to
(04:28):
your point, I think I think they just they had
a series of really the Pacers had a series of
really bad offensive possessions, and you look up and you're like,
nine seven, four to two lead. So this is what
happens in the NBA. This isn't college Like, there's just
things happened quickly in the NBA, and you looked up
(04:48):
and you're like, oh, New York has total control Emotionally,
they just felt like they were going to win the game.
With about four left, You're like, Indiana can't get out
of its own way here offensively.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, even when it was a two or three point
game with Indy still in the league, it kind of
just felt like New York was gonna win at that point.
Basketball is such a confidence and rhythm sport that, like,
when the momentum shifts as dramatically as it does, it
can be difficult to reassert control of the situation. I mean,
very similarly that happened to New York. All of a sudden,
their offense bogs down. In game one, other offense bogs down.
(05:21):
Suddenly Aaron Ee Smith's hitting every single three he takes.
It just kind of changes the psychology of the game.
I thought things really turned around in that late third quarter.
It was so funny because stan Van Gundy goes like,
I'm not sure I like this lineup. It's a bunch
of guys who can't score, and then he just scored
and he goes He's like, who's gonna be the guy
who brings the offense for the Knicks and ended up
being deuced McBride and they went on like a seven
(05:41):
to zero run and it cut it down to ten
going into the fourth quarter, and that's what they were
talking about. They're like, they just need to get it
down to ten. And then as soon as they got
into the fourth quarter in striking distance, Karl Anthony Towns
gets going. It's the three point shooting. It's the like
you mentioned, the first step. And then once he gets
that first step, the Bigs all try to catch up
to him, but he's just so good at powering through
(06:02):
with that battering ram of a left arm as he
goes to the rim and once he got going. This
is the most interesting part. You mentioned it, Colin, Indy's
offense got shook. This is the first time in a
long time I've seen Indy's offense get their foundation shaken
the way that the Knicks did. And what it really
came down to is that stretch with Brunson out. You know,
(06:24):
it's been so fascinating, Colin, because it's different than the
Celtics series. In the Celtic series, Cat and Brunson were
asked to defend one on one, very different kind of idea.
The Celtics succumbs to their switching and they just tried
to attack Brunson and Cat one on one and they
did a good job. But in this series, the job
for Brunson and Cat is much more sprinting in rotation,
(06:47):
getting back in transition defense. It's a lot of like
mental focus and energy related stuff, and those guys have
been rough in this series in that department. But in
that fourth quarter stretch with Brunson off the floor for
most of it, it's Deuce McBride out there, a substantially
better defensive player. Kat was giving the requisite effort in
rotation and one of the things with this Pacers team
(07:08):
Siakam and Halliburton can play one on one, but that's
not necessarily what they do at a superstar level, right,
And so if you rotate and you make them take
contested shots, they might just go cold and miss them all.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And that's what happened in this game.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
They don't have a Brunson, a guy who's just an
indomitable one on one force who can step in and
get great shots, and so like that, that really is
the key if there's any hope for New York in
this series. And I still feel pretty strongly that Indiana
is going to get it done. But like, if there's
any hope for New York in this series, it's they
gotta fly around and rotate and they got they gotta
(07:44):
match Indiana's speed and pace and energy as much as
they can in this series.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I mean it's it's one of the reasons Indiana
plays with pace is because Rick Carlisle knows that's when
they're at their best, because Turner can run, Siakam runs
the floor really well. But they got into us. Indiana
got Toto about it, and it wasn't like two minutes,
it was like six minutes. They got into a six
minute stretch where McConnell's getting He got one short look
and then he forced one and then you know again
(08:11):
they they have like knee Smith can get hot, but
he's not going to beat people off the ball, and
you're just watching it and you're like, oh, this is mud.
This doesn't work at all. It's and you know it's
I think the Pacers are a better team. I I
think there's certain things the Knicks need to do. I
(08:32):
think what happened to the Pacers tonight can happen to
the next more often where they feel a little stock
if Brunson's not hitting. And if I recall, I think
Halliburton was out for a little bit. He was out
of it when they got out of rhythm. Then he
came back in and he was sort of asked to hey,
kickstart the rhythm, and it's like and he did hit
a three, but it's weird when you when he is.
(08:54):
Whereas Brunson doesn't control the pace, he controls some scoring.
Halliburton can control scoring and the pace. So when you
take him out and then you insert him back and
it's like, okay, now, guys, I'm gonna change the pace
of this and he tried, and he does, but it
just didn't. It felt clunky and it felt like they
were playing uphill. Yeah, I just this is a hard
(09:18):
series to officiate.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Just give me a minute on this.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Siakam had a great block on McBride. They call it,
they call the foul in and I'm like, oh, good God,
that's ridiculous. The Bigs, I mean Turner and Cat and
h Siakam, especially Siakam and Cat. They're aggressive, offensive players
with a nice touch. There was so many calls going
(09:43):
against the Knicks in the second half, third quarter. I'm like, oh,
this is this is They're gonna blow a gasket here.
And then I thought a couple went against the Pacers late.
I think this is a hard series to officiate. New
York's good defensive team. Indiana is an underrated defensive team.
And the Bigs move and they collide and I don't know.
(10:06):
As I watched this game about and I'm not a
guy that bangs on officials, but I was like, man,
there were a lot of calls going against the Necks
for a stretch in this game.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I thought, no, absolutely, That's why I wasn't upset about
the Siaka one, Like siakon block Deuce McBride clean. That
was a great defensive play, should not have been a foul.
But there were like three or four calls against against
the Knicks in that fourth quarter where I was like,
to the to the point you're making, what makes this
series so hard to officiate is on the one hand,
you've got Brunson, who's one of the most gifted foul
(10:34):
grifters in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And then on the other.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Side, the Pacers just play so fast and there's so
much running that you kind of have to put your
body in the way you have to. If you don't,
they're just gonna cut you to pieces. And so there's
a lot of these like kind of bang bank contact
plays where a dude comes flying downhill or tries to
turn the corner on a drive and you try to
position yourself in front and take the contact, and they're
getting called for fouls in a lot of those situations,
(10:58):
and it is a very difficult series to officiate. But
what causes those fouls, to your point, is the speed
and the pace. And if there's one thing to credit
the Knicks for in this fourth quarter that like you said,
there was a six minute stretch there where you're like,
why is Aaron Nesmith trying to play bully ball against
Josh Hart and Ogananobi, Like O Janaobi's you know, four
(11:20):
inches taller than you and at least thirty pounds heavier,
Like You're not gonna go through his chest to get
to the rim. And there was a little bit too
much of like siakam Iso, a little too much of
like Tyrese Halliburton dribbling out of ball screens instead of
passing out of ball screens like he always does. I
thought Indiana kind of lost their identity for a minute
in that fourth quarter. By the way, like that's a
(11:41):
credit to Karl Anthony Towns. I'm a big believer in
this colin I'm I think basketball is more art than science.
I think there is a lot of like psychological dynamics
at play in any given moment. And like when Luca
rolls up into your building in the first quarter in
an elimination game and scores seventeen points and hits three
logo threes, it just SAPs you of all your energy.
(12:04):
Like even I thought Brunson and Kat both kind of
were succumbing to that over the course of this game.
Brunson was having a rough night. Kat was having a
rough night. What happened in that fourth quarter was Kat
threw one hell of a punch and he's dunking on
everybody and hitting step back threes, and you could tell
Indiana was just shaken at that point.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah. I mean, there was a point in the first
half when Indiana lib by twenty and they got under
this like six or eight transition run where it was
like three fast breaks, bang bang, and I'm like, all
the game's over. The series is over. I mean, and
I would have bet my four oh one kid at
that moment. I'm like, okay, the series is though it's done.
(12:44):
The body language Bruntson didn't seem engaged that. I'm like, okay,
this it's done. So I mean, you got to give
the next credit. I you know, it's just it's I
think to your point, it's probably the series now probably
closer to what it should be. So you go back
to Game one, the Knicks absolutely outplayed them, and going
(13:06):
even into this game, I was with friends tonight in
the in the first quarter, a little cookout at their house.
We were watching the game, and it was like it
was one of the people there was not a basketball fan,
and I said, oh, this series has just come down
to the last six minutes. I said, one team's great defensively,
ones very good offensively. There's about six really good players combined.
(13:27):
I said, it'll be close. It'll be a four point game.
I thought Indiana would win. But I also think one
of the things that was good for the NBA tonight
is that you're seeing a lot of road teams win
playoff games. They'd been a ton I mean Indiana obviously
my entire life, even as an NBA fan, I always
felt like the home team got the whistle, and I
(13:50):
just like seeing road teams win. I think it just
I think it's just better for basketball when the road
team wins. I mean, I think it's just funny now
that the Knicks can't win it home and the Pacers
now are winning everywhere but home, and I think it's
just good. It makes the series captivating. I'm interested to
watch the Pacers come out in Game four because my
(14:12):
take is they're gonna try to push the pace again
because they walked into that locker room and they're like,
we lost our way at home in a game that
could have cleansed the series. Like they just lost their
way credit the next defense, But that was as bad
as Indiana's looked offensively for a six to eight minute
stretch the entire series.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, you know, the most interesting thing looking back at
this is the Celtics series looks so weird in retrospect
now with the Knicks having won that series and then
looking bad for you know, the majority of this series.
Because I'm with you, like I think Indiana is. I
think Indiana is gonna come out in Game four and
throw their best punch, and I think it's going to
be a very difficult game for the Knicks to win.
(14:53):
That Like the game I pointed to is the Calves
Game four. Calves went into Indiana in Game three and
blew them out. And that's not That's a sixty four
win talent laden roster that went into Indy and suffered
one of the most humiliating blowouts that we've ever seen
in the NBA when they were trailing eighty to thirty
nine at the end of the first half. So Indiana
(15:15):
is gonna come out and they're going to throw their
best punch. What's fascinating to me is coming into this series.
I mentioned to you on your show that I thought
the Pacers were better on offense and better on defense
than the Knicks, and that was why I thought that
they would win the series. But interestingly enough, this is
a Knicks team that's kind of had mediocre results for
the majority of this season, and they beat the Celtics.
(15:38):
And what's fascinating to me now as I look back
on this all is there's kind of a range of
outcomes for all of these teams. And the Pacers are
a team that pretty consistently hits their ceiling. They're not
like what you saw tonight was very out of the
out of character for them. The Knicks, I've seen them
a half dozen times each in this postseason look like
a putrid defense and look like an awesome defense, like
(16:01):
at multiple different points in this postseason, they've kind of
oscillated back and forth between those two ideas.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
They just have a wide range of outcomes.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And so we've all known that the Knicks can have
defensive stretches like they had in that fourth quarter tonight.
They did it to Boston multiple times. They can fly
around in rotation and contest shots and do all of
that stuff. They just can't sustain it. And so Ultimately,
as you zoom out from the series, the Pacers are
up to one and they are more likely to sustain
their peak level of play moving forward, and it makes
(16:31):
some assaye for bet to win the series at this point.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
of programming that goes beyond the game, catch action pack,
live events, and exclusive sports documentaries and profiles only on
Vice TV. Okay Western Conference Game three pretty much unwatchable blowout,
(16:56):
and you know there's a there's a way Minnesota has
to play to beat Okay. See, and they played it.
They did a lot of it. What's funny is it's
hard to find anybody that likes watching OKAC play. You know,
they're kind of hovering defense where they kind of they
swarm on you. I think you said it's almost collegiate
(17:20):
looking the way they play defense, and then it's a
lot of you know, drawing fouls. Sjae. I don't think
they're a fun watch. I just think they're really athletic
and really deep. Do I am I supposed to take
anything beyond just a desperate, well coached team in Minnesota
ant crazy, and it was just a young team listen,
(17:44):
really feeling their oats and just got overwhelmed and just
packed it in. I mean it is anything more than that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think there was some more in the sense that
I think that Oklahoma City is a better team than Minnesota,
but I also don't think they were type of team
that should blow them out multiple times in a row
the way they did in Game one. In Game two,
Chris Finch was running what I thought was an extremely
foolish game plan through the first two games. The gist
of it is, if I asked you what shake Giales
(18:14):
Alexander's strongest traits are as a basketball player, You'd say
he's probably the best driver of the basketball in the league.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
And he's just.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Like the best isolation player in the league. He was like,
of all isolation players who attempted at leastree hundred shots,
he was.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Number one by a mile this year.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And so what Chris Finch was doing was picking up
Shay at half court and letting him play one on one,
staying glued home to shooters. And it was just like
gift wrapping Shae the perfect environment for him to thrive
on and it was hilarious juxtaposed with a Denver series
where we saw the exact opposite game plan with lesser
defensive personnel have a great deal of success. Now they
(18:52):
won by forty because yes, there was an urgency gap,
and they shot a lot better, and there were a
lot like Anthony Edwards was hitting shots over triple teams
in the second half, Like, yeah, there was. That was
what it caused it to manifest in a destructive blowout.
But right away to start that game. One of the
reasons why they were able to quickly assert control and
hold Oklahoma City. I think they held him to fifteen
(19:14):
points in the first quarter. The reason why was they
immediately dropped back to Denver's game plan. They had Jaden
meet Shay inside the three point line, because again, if
you ball pressure a player, it's the easiest time to
drive past them because you're being forward aggressive as a defender,
so of course she's gonna go right around you. He's
literally the best. He drove to the basket more than
(19:36):
two hundred times more than the second best driver in
the league this year, Colin. That's like almost four times
a game. He's far and away the best driver you
can't pick him up that far, He's gonna go right
around you. Jaden sat back, and then they started packing
the paint off of shooters, and so as a result,
it looked like the Denver game, and all of a
sudden it turned into Oklahoma City's role players needing to
(19:58):
knock down threes and having to make tougher decisions in
the lane about whether or not he wanted to shoot
over some double and triple teams where he can have
some shortcomings, because if I asked you what Shay's biggest
weaknesses are, it's probably his three point shooting and his
ability to process in traffic in the lane. Now, he's
(20:18):
still pretty good at those things, but they're not his strengths.
And in that end of the first half he was
one for four from three, he had four turnovers. He
finished the game, I think, four for fifteen from the field.
Colin only eight times all season did Shay shoot below
forty percent from the field. He is one of the
most consistently efficient scorers in basketball. They held him to
(20:38):
thirty one percent in that game, So there definitely was
a better game plan and so as a result, I
think Game four will be a closer, more tightly contested
game because they're running the right game plan for this well.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
And I think that one of the vulnerabilities of OKC
is young teams role players are generally not as good
on the road in the playoffs. And that's exactly what
you saw. Like we've talked to about this before. Role
players at home are just different players they play. They
need that confidence, they need the swagger of the crowd.
Steph Curry doesn't and doesn't. And I think when you
force Oklahoma City and you just say okay, okay, young guys,
(21:12):
hit your shots on the road, loud crowd, it's hard,
there's a history. It's like, really really hard. And I
also think and I also think when you're playing a
team like Okay See so much, I wonder about sometimes
Okay See is so good defensively and so swarming and
(21:32):
so frenetic. I do wonder if Minnesota players tend to
spend so much of their on court time thinking about that.
So much of playing OKAYC is deciphering their defense and
figuring out I mean, you have to really be you
have to be intentional when you play them defensively, because
(21:53):
they can trap you, they can make you look bad. Fast,
and so I think sometimes when you play Okay, see
they don't play like a lot of other teams. Nobody
quite plays like them, and I think they can get
into your headspace and it's why. And then you go
on the road and they and now they lead by
six and SGA is getting the whistle. I do feel something,
(22:16):
and I don't know what the numbers say, but I
do feel like OKAC is like Indiana. I get the
same team, the same team. I got enough veterans. I
feel with Oklahoma City they're a vulnerable road team. I've
got a shot. You know, Denver. They didn't look quite
the same at Denver. Now maybe it's altitude. Now, maybe
I'm wrong on this, and the splits don't say that,
(22:36):
but I do feel like it. OKAC is a vulnerable
team on the road that you can win your home
games against them.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
They're three and three Collins and their defense, their offense
falls all the way down to a one oh four
offensive rating that's brutally bad, and their defense slides all
the way up to one twelve, which is pretty bad
for them. So you're I mean, you're not what you're
onto is what's really been happening with them.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Okay, okay, A yeah, they're a different offense on the road.
They don't feel like the same team. And that doesn't
surprise us because they're young and they and they play
with huge energy at home. But when I watch them
on the road at Denver a couple of times, I'm like,
it just doesn't feel the same. It's a different I
honestly feel of all the teams left, I get the
(23:19):
exact same team with Indiana, except for six minutes tonight.
I feel like I get this exact same pacer squad
home and away. They want to run if they can't,
you know, I just, okay, see, of all the four
teams left, I feel like I get a different OKC
team home and away.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
To your point about adjusting to okac's defense too, Like
I thought Aunt and Julius did a poor job in
the first two games of attacking their defense, Like I
call in like because Oklahoma City's defense. I don't know
if you like, just just stare at any possession Shay's
ignoring whoever he's guardian, just sitting in the basket. They've
got three, four, sometimes five guys in the paint. On
like every single drive, They're daring Minnesota to take and
(24:00):
make corner threes in this series and in the like
when after Game one when Ant was like, I vowed
to be more aggressive, I'm like, that's not the answer.
They're like, you're gonna just drive into the teeth of
the defense and you're gonna take bad shots.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And by the way, in the first half.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Of game two, you took eighteen shots and had sixteen
points to show for it. What was kind of fascinating
about the flow of this series is to your point,
you start to get more comfortable as you adjust. Aunt
and Julius were awesome in game three, especially early at
making those corner kicks, and they were finally knocking down
those corner threes. They have had three games worth of
(24:37):
experience against Oklahoma City's base defensive scheme, and they're starting
to figure it out a little bit. Oklahoma City saw
that bad game plan for two games and then Finch
throws the appropriate game plan in game three, and they
looked like completely shell shocked by it. I mean, Colin,
I don't know if you saw in game one, Oklahoma
City only took like twenty threes. And the reason why
(24:59):
is because they were staying glued off the ball and
letting Shay play one on one. It's such a fundamentally
different defensive game plan that Minnesota is rocking from this
point forward.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
To be clear, in Game four, by the way, via DraftKings,
all of our odds are from raft DraftKings. Oklahoma City
is a three point favorite in Game four. That feels
right to me. I think it's gonna be a close game.
They're gonna bring an intense defensive effort right away out
the gates. That's gonna test Ant and Julius's decision making again.
And then you're gonna see Oklahoma City because they have
seen this defense before with Denver. You're gonna see them
(25:32):
kind of come into the game prepared for that game plan.
That said, and this is the one thing I'd say, like,
I think Minnesota has a much better chance of beating
Oklahoma City from this point forward than the Knicks do
with the Pacers, because what Minnesota can bring to the
table is Denver caused problems for OKC with some weak
defensive personnel. Minnesota's got a bunch of really good defenders
(25:56):
out there, and so if they properly execute this game plan,
they could potend actual they do some real damage and
as long as they ride that momentum going forward in
the series. There's also a little bit of like a
Aunt straight up can be unguardable sometimes with some of
the shots that he can make, and like he was
just better than Shay in Game three, and if he
can maintain that, that would be the other thing that
(26:16):
could swing things back towards Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You know. Funny a segue back to the Knicks Pacers.
And I was watching the Pacers when they took that
twenty point first half lead, and they were just transition
basketball at its best. Just I mean, they score fast,
and I was thinking, don't fall for it, Colin, don't
fall for it. Because a couple of years ago, Denver
won the title and I'm like, oh, they're going to
(26:40):
reel off like three and then Bruce Brown left and
then casep and they didn't. I mean, they didn't have
a great bench to begin with, and now it's a
bad bench and they become you know, Jamal Murray gets hurt.
And I've never been a huge Michael Porter fan. I've
always been I always think Aaron Gordon's underrated Porter to me,
just I think he's an odd fit and overpaid, and
(27:02):
then all of a sudden you look up and Denver
just looks good. And I watched Indiana, I said, and
I thought to myself, God, I love watching them play.
But as I watch all of these teams, even Oklahoma City,
and we've just stated it, they're the one team that
you get a different version on the road, they're not
nearly as good as they are at home. Is that.
(27:26):
I feel like whoever wins this year will not win
the following year. And I, first of all, there's gonna
be a y honest move. KD could go to the Knicks.
They could get another basket, you know, if they moved
off Karl Anthony towns at his flakiness and just said
we're gonna go get Durant. We'll let Carl go, We'll
keep Robinson. He is what he is, but we'll have
(27:46):
Durant in the game late so we can live with him.
I feel like the Pacers feel a little bit like
the Nuggets. I'm falling in love like I fell in
love with Jokic and Gordon, and I'm like, God, I
love this team. But it wasn't as sustainable. It was
very Jokic dominant, and Murray you know, He's just one
(28:06):
of those players that I like a lot, I don't love,
and I kind of feel like with Indiana, I'm falling
for it because and I'm doing this because it's like
confirmation bias. I love watching them play, and so I'm
talking myself into Indiana is great. But then I watched
them and I think to myself, no, they're not great.
What they have as a remarkable player in Halliburton, and
(28:30):
what Denver had is a remarkable player in Jokic, and
what Minnesota has as a remarkable player in Aunt and
Brunson's one of the great small closers in the game.
Is I think this is what the NBA is going
to be, is that everybody's going to have a great
player and a very good too. But the days of
having three guys that you can depend on, I just think, Jason,
(28:51):
I think it's over. I just don't think that multiple aprons.
I don't think they allow it. And so those teams
are just going to eventually get beat. They'll come in
as a favorite, they'll have it, they'll have an injury,
they'll lose a bench guy, and I it's just funny
watching Indiana tonight. I'm like, oh boy, this team, this team,
I thought, wait, put the brakes on Jesus. They can't
(29:12):
even get to the next tonight. What if I took
these four teams, all things considered, and I said, one
of them will win multiple titles? Are you set on Okac?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, okay, So he's the only team that could theoretically
keep this kind of talent accumulated for long enough, Like
Indiana is already going to face some tough questions coming up, Like, Okay,
Miles Turner is kind of very important to the way
we play offense. Are we going to pay because Miles,
guess what Colin starting sender money in the NBA now
is like thirty million a year. Like that's like the baseline,
Like we're starting the discussion at thirty million a year.
(29:46):
That's what Isaiah Hartenstein got. And if I'm Miles Hard
Miles Turner's agent, I'm going to him like thirty's the basement, Like,
so are you gonna you how are you gonna continue
to build around Nie Smith? Who, by the by the way,
Nie Smith is a dude who just stole you a
play game, who's averaging fifteen points a game in this
playoff run? Is your primary point of attack defender and
shooting forty five percent from three. That's a twenty five
(30:07):
million dollar player. Like Halliburton's a Supermax player. Nemhard you
could argue as a twenty million dollar player. Siakam is
a forty million dollar player.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Like.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It just gets really difficult to maintain the payrolls in
these In these situations, the thing with Oklahoma City is
they're going to run into that problem in a couple
of years. They can theoretically win this year, run it back,
win again, run it back, but it will be a
shorter window relative to previous entities like this because of
(30:36):
the fact that eventually they're gonna have to pay Ja Dubb.
Cason Wallace is looking a lot like a twenty five
million dollar player to me, right, Like Jeded Holmgren's a
forty million dollar player. Jadub's going to be a forty
million dollar player. Like They're all just so good that
inevitably you're gonna have to pay all these dudes, and
it's just going to become impossible to maintain the roster.
Now there's a second conversation to have as it pertains
(30:56):
to whether or not the league should pivot from this
structure because it penalizes smartly run NBA teams. But yeah,
on the other three teams Indiana, New York, Minnesota, there's
no chance to sustain success because of just how expensive
it is to have. Like you talk about a playoff rotation,
you want six guys you can definitely trust and probably
(31:21):
a seventh that you can kind of trust. And it's
like a playoff guy you can trust is a bare
minimum twenty million in the open market. So like, it's
just very difficult to find the means with which to
maintain this. And Oklahoma City will have draft picks. They
can supplement it with draft picks, but a draft pick
isn't going to be able to impact of winning at
a playoff level right away. And you can try trading them,
(31:42):
but it's just going to bring back expensive contracts. It's
just kind of the reality of the situation. I will
say with the Knicks, Colin, I think there's a lot
of interesting Kevin Durant potensial destinations. I think the Knicks
are one. I also kind of think the Pacers are one.
One of the reasons why I like the Pacers is
like I don't think the Pacers have much of a
chance at all to beat Oklahoma City. I think it's
(32:04):
a horrible matchup for them. Oklahoma City has six lightning
fast guards that can chase all their guards around and
they could switch everything, and they also have im protection,
and they have all the offensive talent to be able
to score on them. I worry about the Pacers' ability
to get a bucket against a team that can keep
them in front. And they're a team like if I
(32:24):
had if I just had a better version of Siakam,
I all of a sudden view them as a more
substantial title threat, and so like, they're a team that
I could see like, Okay, we're a little older, Miles
Turner's kind of older. We need to make some sort
of win now, move to capitalize on this before it
gets too expensive. I could see KD being that guy
for them as well. There's a bunch of teams where
KD could immediately raise their ceiling.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Okay, I want to I want to bring this up.
We can close on this. Because I saw this today,
it's fascinating. So a university professor in finance looked up
the value of Caitlin Clark for the WNBA. This is insane.
So this year. Last season in the WNBA, Caitlin Clark
(33:14):
was twenty six and a half percent of all economic
activity as a rookie on the worst team in the
league when she entered it. So now she has an
eight year, one hundred and twenty eight million dollar deal
with Nike, so you know she's she's gonna eat merchandise
(33:35):
in the league. Went up off a rookie from a
Midwest based school on the worst team in the league
two hundred and thirty four percent. But here was the
one that struck me so before she got there, the
Indiana Fever, the valuation of the franchise was ninety million.
Remember they play a short season, it's not like the
(33:56):
NBA or it lasts like six months playing what forty games.
The valuation of that team now is three hundred and
forty million dollars. She is almost that is, she has
quadrupled the value. And I was talking. I was with
(34:18):
a group of friends tonight at dinner and and people
that didn't know the WNBA were like asking, well, well, why,
like what does she do? And we said, well, she
makes passes and take shots that nobody else in the
sport does. So she's a bit of a. It's like
when Tiger Woods came on the tour, like he drove
it further, He's long, putting was better, he looked like
(34:40):
a football player in the red shirts, like he just
was different than every other golfer you grew up with,
and people like unique and different. Here, my question to
you is there's still no other Like somebody said at
the party, well, there'll be another Caitlin Clark, and I'm like, well,
there's not another Steph Curry. Like there's guys that can
(35:00):
shoot threes, don't I don't think it's a game you
duplicate and I listen, let's just be honest. There are
more great male athletes in the world than female athletes.
There is no second Steph Curry. There is no other
player in that plays like that. My take is she
could be a billion dollar athlete. Are you Are you
(35:24):
surprised by it? Like when I see these numbers, I'm like, oh,
this is Tiger and the Tour. This doesn't this isn't
even Jordan, this is totally different.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Well, I think when you look at basketball, there are
two real kind of like ultimate show type of athletes
that you see, meaning like must see television and it's
the supreme vertical athlete, which think like young Lebron or
kind of like Anthony.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Edwards Dominique for a while.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah yeah, look like the guy that does stuff in
the air that is unlike anything you see anyone or
Jay hmmm. And then the second piece of it is
just unbelievable shot making. Those are the two things. Those
are the two things that like really bring eyes to television.
To take it a step further, there are two types
(36:14):
of basketball players that I think are far and away
the most winning impact in the current game of basketball.
It's the big, strong playmaker think Lebron, Luka Jokic, And
it's the indomitable shooter, which there's really only been Steph.
I think those two types of players are the players
(36:36):
that give you the best chances to win basketball games
in the modern in the modern world. Now, what makes
it fascinating to me because that's what Caitlyn Clark is.
She's a different type of player, and she can do
a lot of different types of things, but she's essentially
bringing a Steph Curry like basketball impact to the WNBA.
It's really this simple. If you can shoot the way
that she shoots, so the way step shoots and you
(36:58):
can perpetually in motion running around. Inevitably there is an
overreaction to your shooting ability. And we see this all
the time with Kaitlyn, just like you're gonna see you're
gonna see Aliah Boston get NonStop easy buckets in the
mid range or rolling to the basket, because every time
she sets a screen for Caitlin, her defender is stepping
(37:20):
up to guard Caitlin because as she comes off of
that screen, if you're not there, she's gonna shoot it
and she's gonna make it. And so there's a reaction
that invert spacing in brings a four on three because
you bring multiple defenders away from the rim, there's a
four on three with a vacated paint and because of that,
(37:41):
there's a lot of easy opportunities to score there. Like
that's the thing with Steph Curry, Like Steph Curry is
not the same shot maker that he was four years
ago in twenty twenty one, but just the simple threat
of him running around gives the Warriors a chance to score.
And that's the thing. Like Caitlyn hasn't even really started
hitting shots yet this year, or the way that she's
capable of but everyone knows she can and they guard
(38:02):
her in that fashion. And so to me, it's kind
of like a proof of concept in that if you
can shoot and you can run around the way that
Steph does, and you can strike fear into a defense
in that way, the trickle down effects with the way
that defenses guard, you just make everything so much easier
for her. And like you could argue she's already the
best offensive engine in the WNBA and she's literally a
(38:24):
second year player, and like, and she still has so
much room to improve, Like, she still struggles with ball pressure,
she still turns the she turned the ball over too
much against the Liberty the other night. She still has
a little bit of an issue where she kind of
cross fires across her face, which makes it so she
can only shoot going left. She needs to build it
out so that she can shoot running to her right
as well. But like, judging by her psycho competitive attitude,
(38:47):
she's probably gonna figure that stuff out in the next
year or two and then she'll be the best player
in the league. And so like, to me, it's just
she fits the mold of one of the most impactful
types of basketball players you can be today, which is
the deadly movement shooter. If you're a deadly movement shooter,
it just opens up so many things for an offense.
And and honestly, I just think I think she's musty
(39:08):
television Colin. I've watched all four of her games, and
I'm in my busy season, Like you think i'd be
taking a break. My wife said to me the other day,
She's like, you're watching more basketball, and like it's Katelyn Clark,
We're watching more basketball. Come over here, let's watch this.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Like she's incredible and she's not getting she doesn't know
it's get the consistent great star whistle. She I mean,
there's I think they're still kind of figuring out how
to officiate her right, like like when you're when you know,
I've said this for years when I covered Shack and
Shack got foul more than anybody I've ever seen. I mean,
(39:40):
it was insane. You just people bounced off Shack. Yoki
feel Yokics complains constantly like people are bouncing off me.
She doesn't quite get as favorable a whistle as you think.
So I I think.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Neither's Steph too. That's the funny part.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Well, and I think I will give the w NBA credit.
They they just didn't understand the tsunami ever popularity, like
they didn't get the schedule, and you don't know what
you don't know. They've done a much better job to
I mean, all her games are on television. Every time
I turn on a WA every time I see a
promote promotion for the WNBA, it's Caitlin Clark, so they're there.
(40:19):
But I do think there's a process on. You know,
you're an official. You don't want to give her too
favorable a whistle because the players in the league will
resent her to some degree. She's getting all this attention
and I don't. And I will say this, I've defended
the w NBA with this. Baseball and a WNBA feel ignored.
The NFL and the NBA and college football they get
(40:42):
a lot of press, and baseball always feels like, hey,
we're America's pastime. So they're very insular, sometimes very provincial.
And the WNBA, similarly, you don't pay attention to us.
So there's part of it, like I get like they
sort of resent this one player. Nobody talks WNBA. They do,
and it's all her. You know, I remember when Tiger
(41:03):
was eighteen nineteen, twenty years old coming ont of the tour.
There were a lot of people in golf that were like,
could you guys show, could you talk in your sportscast
about anybody other than Tiger Woods? So she's not. Bryce
Harper came into baseball. He fought with an own teammate
in a dugout because it was like, Oh, everybody wants
to talk to So I do defend the WNBA. Is
that I get if nobody paid attention to you for
(41:25):
twenty six years and now they do, and they feign
interested in the rest of the league what we all
care about Caitlyn. So the animosity built up by players,
I give it a little bit of a pass.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I think that people are spending too much time on race.
You know, it is what it is. There's a million platforms,
a million opinions, but I don't know. My take is
there's still in the adjustment period with Caitlin. How to market,
how to promote, how to officiate, how to defend, And
it's just fluid. That's what it feels like to me.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I think that like when I see the complaining, like
I saw some players complain and some some members of
the media complain that she was on TV so much,
and let's just take us out, take fairness and just
put it to the side for a minute, like even
with Nike and giving Caitlin a shoot like set that
aside for a minute and just focus on her being
on television. Okay, her being on television brought my eyes
(42:23):
to it. I didn't watch the WNBA. I have grown
to really enjoy watching WNBA basketball even when she's not
on and they're like the Nafisa Collier became one of
my favorite basketball players watching her in the finals run
last year. And what brought me to the television was Caitlyn.
So like, let's say that the league came out there
like every Caitlyn Clark games on national television, like that's
(42:46):
just what we're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Deal with it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
That would be genius because the best way you can
market the other WNBA players is to have them play
against Caitlin Clark because we'll all be watching. Okay, well,
no one's covering the rest of the league. Okay, but
if you put Haitln on television and you get more
people to watch, it will create more WNBA fans, and
we live in the most colin I started making NBA
(43:09):
content out of my guest bedroom. Okay, you create a
bunch of WNBA fans, passionate members of the media will
originate from that mass and will cover the league better,
and overall the league will gain in popularity and gain
and impact, and it will become a momentous thing that
carries forward and actually does shine a big flashlight on
the rest of the WNBA. Haitlan Clark is the vehicle
(43:32):
with which to microwave that, to accelerate it, and to
move it into a fast track towards what could be
a bright future for the WNBA. It's great basketball. It's
genuinely great basketball. She's the best vehicle with which to
elevate the sport. I think anything they can do to
put her on TV and promote her is the best
(43:53):
thing they could do for the sport.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, it's Connor McGregor UFC. You know, you knew it existed.
You'd seen fights. You start buying pay per view cards
and sitting through two and a half hours to get
to his fight, and then all of a sudden, you
found yourself a year later hooked on two other fighters.
Because Dana White would put the second most popular fighter
in the undercards, So all of a sudden, it's John
Jones into Connor McGregor and then they So it's just
(44:17):
basic marketing. And I've said before, I do think the
WNBA women's basketball, and I'd said this years ago in
FS one, probably five years ago, the sport was getting better.
The women were, you know, several generations of women were
encouraged to play basketball and to be athletes, and nutritionists
came into the sport and better trainers. There was money
(44:39):
in the league, so they had better training and the
players were getting better. But it takes this, Listen, it
took Magic and Bird in the NBA to take a
league that there were some financial problems. So it's not
like a gender issue, it's a I mean, I think
Connor McGregor's erosion as a fighter has heard UFC. It
(45:00):
doesn't feel as urgent. And that's and that's already established.
And so and we all know that Michael Jordan left.
Once Magic Bird and Michael had driven the league up,
Michael left, the ratings dropped fifty percent. So this stuff
outside of the NFL, it's all cyclical, it's all market based,
it's all star based and it's just the WNBA, you know,
(45:24):
was waiting for its first Tiger, and golf's probably had
four in my life, you know, Jack Nicholson, Arnold Palmer, Tiger.
I think Rory's got a little bit of it, Phil Mickelson.
So the history of golf, you know, if you modern
history is felt like five guys that have done it.
So there's no reason to be defensive about it. It
(45:44):
just it's all these leagues. They all eventually, I mean,
look at boxing. Allie took it from whatever it was
to the next level. Then there were Sugar, Ray Leonard
and Hagler. But when Larry Holmes arrived, nobody wanted to
watch Larry Holmes. That took an old George Forman selling
a grill that you bake chicken on or cook chicken
(46:05):
on to I mean literally to get the casual back
into boxing. Was George Foreman's second tour. So this is
the way sports works outside of football.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
The cyclical thing is so fascinating because that's literally what
the NBA is about to go through. Lebron and Steph
won eight titles in eleven years and now there's not
really a big name yet. Now you could argue that
the parody might prevent the rise of a star, and
that's a separate conversation for another day, but it is
really fascinating. We're in one of those cycles right now
with the NBA. The old guard's going out and there's
a new guard coming up. But Colin, I sincerely appreciate
(46:38):
you give it us your time tonight. This has been
a super fun playoff runt. I'm sure we'll be talking
in about a week or so. Again, everyone, thank you
guys so much for supporting the show. No playback tonight,
just a heads up. We'll be back with that tomorrow night,
and then I'll be live on YouTube after the final
buzzer of Game four of what should be an incredible
Western Conference Finals game tomorrow night.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
I will see you guys then. What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. Actually be really helpful for us if you
guys would take a second and leave a rating and
a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us,
but if you could take a minute to do that,
I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could
be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA
Playoffs where heroes rise, legacies are built, and the action
never lets up. And with DraftKings Sports Book and official
sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just watch
the madness, you live it. Back your favorite team, ride
with your clutch, time killer, bet on the buzzer beaters,
(00:26):
the breakout performances, the game winning threes, from player props
to same game parlays. This is how you take your
fandom to the next level. The New York Knicks, after
beating the Celtics are up to plus three sixty, is
the second best odds to win the title. Surprisingly, the
Pacers back at plus six hundred because my initial thought
(00:46):
on that series is I want to pick the Pacers.
But some interesting championship oods right now. New to the game,
no sweat, Download the DraftKings Sportsbook, gap bet just five
dollars and if your bet wins, you'll score three hundred
dollars in bonus bets. It's that easy. I don't know
the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code hoops. That's code
hoops hoops for new customers to get three hundred dollars
(01:07):
in bonus bets if your bet wins. When you bet
just five bucks only on DraftKings, the Crown is yours.
Gambling problem called one hundred gambler In New York call
eight seven seven eight hope and why, or text hope
and why to four six seven three six y nine.
In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call eight
eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
CCPG dot org.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort
in Kansas twenty one plus. Age and eligibility varies by
jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward.
Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance.
For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKG dot
co slash audio. All right, welcome to hoops tonight here
(02:03):
at the volume heavy Sunday everybody. I hope all of
you guys are having a great weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Colin Coward was very kind to join us tonight with
this time and this time. Two days ago, we were
looking at a what looked like the Indiana Pacers on
their way to potentially a sweep to go to the finals.
We're talking about trading Karl Anthony Towns. Everyone's blowing a
bunch of smoke about the Thunder and how they're the
all time great team. And now we're sitting here on
Sunday evening and both series are two to one and
(02:30):
very very different.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Colin.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
My initial read was just simply that this is more
or less where the Eastern Conference Finals should be at
this point in that I thought the Knicks looked like
the better team in Game one and they blew it,
And I thought the Pacers looked like the better team
tonight that I thought they let their foot off the
gas in a lot of ways. The Knicks did find
some stuff, and we'll get into that, but Carl Anthony
town steals this game just like Aaron Nesmith stole Game one,
(02:54):
and it kind of feels like we're supposed to be
two to one Indy and here we are too one Indie.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, I mean, they're really different. At one point, the
Pacers had a sixteen to nothing fast break points advantage.
I mean, you can tell Indiana always wants to push
the pace, but tonight it was basically in the half
court Carl Anthony Towns with Jalen Brunson off the floor
for most of it. He had one of these Carl
Anthony Towns games. And I think I've told you this before.
(03:21):
It was a weird thing. I swear to god. I
went to about six NBA games. He played in five
of them. There was this stretch in LA. Every time
I went to a game he was playing, and he's
in all of them. He had a quarterway he was
the best player on the floor by long shot. And
he does this and you know, for a guy his size,
like his first step, for a guy his size, like
(03:44):
he is quick, and then he gets by you and
he's long and he's angular and he's a handful. He's
a handful for a big and I've just seen him
do stuff like this before. But I thought with Brunson
off the floor, you know sometimes when you're a really
gifted player and you play with a ball centric great player.
(04:05):
This was Brunson in Dallas, you know, like he would
be like it was Luca's show, and then you put
him in New York and this is one of those
were in a weird way. It was like Karl Anthony
two the team was just looking for him to lead,
and we both know that he can do this. He
doesn't sustain it, he gets in foul trouble. He can
be inefficient, he's flaky. But and then I think, to
(04:28):
your point, I think I think they just they had
a series of really the Pacers had a series of
really bad offensive possessions, and you look up and you're like,
nine seven, four to two lead. So this is what
happens in the NBA. This isn't college Like, there's just
things happened quickly in the NBA, and you looked up
(04:48):
and you're like, oh, New York has total control Emotionally,
they just felt like they were going to win the game.
With about four left, You're like, Indiana can't get out
of its own way here offensively.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, even when it was a two or three point
game with Indy still in the league, it kind of
just felt like New York was gonna win at that point.
Basketball is such a confidence and rhythm sport that, like,
when the momentum shifts as dramatically as it does, it
can be difficult to reassert control of the situation. I mean,
very similarly that happened to New York. All of a sudden,
their offense bogs down. In game one, other offense bogs down.
(05:21):
Suddenly Aaron Ee Smith's hitting every single three he takes.
It just kind of changes the psychology of the game.
I thought things really turned around in that late third quarter.
It was so funny because stan Van Gundy goes like,
I'm not sure I like this lineup. It's a bunch
of guys who can't score, and then he just scored
and he goes He's like, who's gonna be the guy
who brings the offense for the Knicks and ended up
being deuced McBride and they went on like a seven
(05:41):
to zero run and it cut it down to ten
going into the fourth quarter, and that's what they were
talking about. They're like, they just need to get it
down to ten. And then as soon as they got
into the fourth quarter in striking distance, Karl Anthony Towns
gets going. It's the three point shooting. It's the like
you mentioned, the first step. And then once he gets
that first step, the Bigs all try to catch up
to him, but he's just so good at powering through
(06:02):
with that battering ram of a left arm as he
goes to the rim and once he got going. This
is the most interesting part. You mentioned it, Colin, Indy's
offense got shook. This is the first time in a
long time I've seen Indy's offense get their foundation shaken
the way that the Knicks did. And what it really
came down to is that stretch with Brunson out. You know,
(06:24):
it's been so fascinating, Colin, because it's different than the
Celtics series. In the Celtic series, Cat and Brunson were
asked to defend one on one, very different kind of idea.
The Celtics succumbs to their switching and they just tried
to attack Brunson and Cat one on one and they
did a good job. But in this series, the job
for Brunson and Cat is much more sprinting in rotation,
(06:47):
getting back in transition defense. It's a lot of like
mental focus and energy related stuff, and those guys have
been rough in this series in that department. But in
that fourth quarter stretch with Brunson off the floor for
most of it, it's Deuce McBride out there, a substantially
better defensive player. Kat was giving the requisite effort in
rotation and one of the things with this Pacers team
(07:08):
Siakam and Halliburton can play one on one, but that's
not necessarily what they do at a superstar level, right,
And so if you rotate and you make them take
contested shots, they might just go cold and miss them all.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And that's what happened in this game.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
They don't have a Brunson, a guy who's just an
indomitable one on one force who can step in and
get great shots, and so like that, that really is
the key if there's any hope for New York in
this series. And I still feel pretty strongly that Indiana
is going to get it done. But like, if there's
any hope for New York in this series, it's they
gotta fly around and rotate and they got they gotta
(07:44):
match Indiana's speed and pace and energy as much as
they can in this series.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I mean it's it's one of the reasons Indiana
plays with pace is because Rick Carlisle knows that's when
they're at their best, because Turner can run, Siakam runs
the floor really well. But they got into us. Indiana
got Toto about it, and it wasn't like two minutes,
it was like six minutes. They got into a six
minute stretch where McConnell's getting He got one short look
and then he forced one and then you know again
(08:11):
they they have like knee Smith can get hot, but
he's not going to beat people off the ball, and
you're just watching it and you're like, oh, this is mud.
This doesn't work at all. It's and you know it's
I think the Pacers are a better team. I I
think there's certain things the Knicks need to do. I
(08:32):
think what happened to the Pacers tonight can happen to
the next more often where they feel a little stock
if Brunson's not hitting. And if I recall, I think
Halliburton was out for a little bit. He was out
of it when they got out of rhythm. Then he
came back in and he was sort of asked to hey,
kickstart the rhythm, and it's like and he did hit
a three, but it's weird when you when he is.
(08:54):
Whereas Brunson doesn't control the pace, he controls some scoring.
Halliburton can control scoring and the pace. So when you
take him out and then you insert him back and
it's like, okay, now, guys, I'm gonna change the pace
of this and he tried, and he does, but it
just didn't. It felt clunky and it felt like they
were playing uphill. Yeah, I just this is a hard
(09:18):
series to officiate.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Just give me a minute on this.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Siakam had a great block on McBride. They call it,
they call the foul in and I'm like, oh, good God,
that's ridiculous. The Bigs, I mean Turner and Cat and
h Siakam, especially Siakam and Cat. They're aggressive, offensive players
with a nice touch. There was so many calls going
(09:43):
against the Knicks in the second half, third quarter. I'm like, oh,
this is this is They're gonna blow a gasket here.
And then I thought a couple went against the Pacers late.
I think this is a hard series to officiate. New
York's good defensive team. Indiana is an underrated defensive team.
And the Bigs move and they collide and I don't know.
(10:06):
As I watched this game about and I'm not a
guy that bangs on officials, but I was like, man,
there were a lot of calls going against the Necks
for a stretch in this game.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I thought, no, absolutely, That's why I wasn't upset about
the Siaka one, Like siakon block Deuce McBride clean. That
was a great defensive play, should not have been a foul.
But there were like three or four calls against against
the Knicks in that fourth quarter where I was like,
to the to the point you're making, what makes this
series so hard to officiate is on the one hand,
you've got Brunson, who's one of the most gifted foul
(10:34):
grifters in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And then on the other.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Side, the Pacers just play so fast and there's so
much running that you kind of have to put your
body in the way you have to. If you don't,
they're just gonna cut you to pieces. And so there's
a lot of these like kind of bang bank contact
plays where a dude comes flying downhill or tries to
turn the corner on a drive and you try to
position yourself in front and take the contact, and they're
getting called for fouls in a lot of those situations,
(10:58):
and it is a very difficult series to officiate. But
what causes those fouls, to your point, is the speed
and the pace. And if there's one thing to credit
the Knicks for in this fourth quarter that like you said,
there was a six minute stretch there where you're like,
why is Aaron Nesmith trying to play bully ball against
Josh Hart and Ogananobi, Like O Janaobi's you know, four
(11:20):
inches taller than you and at least thirty pounds heavier,
Like You're not gonna go through his chest to get
to the rim. And there was a little bit too
much of like siakam Iso, a little too much of
like Tyrese Halliburton dribbling out of ball screens instead of
passing out of ball screens like he always does. I
thought Indiana kind of lost their identity for a minute
in that fourth quarter. By the way, like that's a
(11:41):
credit to Karl Anthony Towns. I'm a big believer in
this colin I'm I think basketball is more art than science.
I think there is a lot of like psychological dynamics
at play in any given moment. And like when Luca
rolls up into your building in the first quarter in
an elimination game and scores seventeen points and hits three
logo threes, it just SAPs you of all your energy.
(12:04):
Like even I thought Brunson and Kat both kind of
were succumbing to that over the course of this game.
Brunson was having a rough night. Kat was having a
rough night. What happened in that fourth quarter was Kat
threw one hell of a punch and he's dunking on
everybody and hitting step back threes, and you could tell
Indiana was just shaken at that point.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah. I mean, there was a point in the first
half when Indiana lib by twenty and they got under
this like six or eight transition run where it was
like three fast breaks, bang bang, and I'm like, all
the game's over. The series is over. I mean, and
I would have bet my four oh one kid at
that moment. I'm like, okay, the series is though it's done.
(12:44):
The body language Bruntson didn't seem engaged that. I'm like, okay,
this it's done. So I mean, you got to give
the next credit. I you know, it's just it's I
think to your point, it's probably the series now probably
closer to what it should be. So you go back
to Game one, the Knicks absolutely outplayed them, and going
(13:06):
even into this game, I was with friends tonight in
the in the first quarter, a little cookout at their house.
We were watching the game, and it was like it
was one of the people there was not a basketball fan,
and I said, oh, this series has just come down
to the last six minutes. I said, one team's great defensively,
ones very good offensively. There's about six really good players combined.
(13:27):
I said, it'll be close. It'll be a four point game.
I thought Indiana would win. But I also think one
of the things that was good for the NBA tonight
is that you're seeing a lot of road teams win
playoff games. They'd been a ton I mean Indiana obviously
my entire life, even as an NBA fan, I always
felt like the home team got the whistle, and I
(13:50):
just like seeing road teams win. I think it just
I think it's just better for basketball when the road
team wins. I mean, I think it's just funny now
that the Knicks can't win it home and the Pacers
now are winning everywhere but home, and I think it's
just good. It makes the series captivating. I'm interested to
watch the Pacers come out in Game four because my
(14:12):
take is they're gonna try to push the pace again
because they walked into that locker room and they're like,
we lost our way at home in a game that
could have cleansed the series. Like they just lost their
way credit the next defense, But that was as bad
as Indiana's looked offensively for a six to eight minute
stretch the entire series.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, you know, the most interesting thing looking back at
this is the Celtics series looks so weird in retrospect
now with the Knicks having won that series and then
looking bad for you know, the majority of this series.
Because I'm with you, like I think Indiana is. I
think Indiana is gonna come out in Game four and
throw their best punch, and I think it's going to
be a very difficult game for the Knicks to win.
(14:53):
That Like the game I pointed to is the Calves
Game four. Calves went into Indiana in Game three and
blew them out. And that's not That's a sixty four
win talent laden roster that went into Indy and suffered
one of the most humiliating blowouts that we've ever seen
in the NBA when they were trailing eighty to thirty
nine at the end of the first half. So Indiana
(15:15):
is gonna come out and they're going to throw their
best punch. What's fascinating to me is coming into this series.
I mentioned to you on your show that I thought
the Pacers were better on offense and better on defense
than the Knicks, and that was why I thought that
they would win the series. But interestingly enough, this is
a Knicks team that's kind of had mediocre results for
the majority of this season, and they beat the Celtics.
(15:38):
And what's fascinating to me now as I look back
on this all is there's kind of a range of
outcomes for all of these teams. And the Pacers are
a team that pretty consistently hits their ceiling. They're not
like what you saw tonight was very out of the
out of character for them. The Knicks, I've seen them
a half dozen times each in this postseason look like
a putrid defense and look like an awesome defense, like
(16:01):
at multiple different points in this postseason, they've kind of
oscillated back and forth between those two ideas.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
They just have a wide range of outcomes.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And so we've all known that the Knicks can have
defensive stretches like they had in that fourth quarter tonight.
They did it to Boston multiple times. They can fly
around in rotation and contest shots and do all of
that stuff. They just can't sustain it. And so Ultimately,
as you zoom out from the series, the Pacers are
up to one and they are more likely to sustain
their peak level of play moving forward, and it makes
(16:31):
some assaye for bet to win the series at this point.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
of programming that goes beyond the game, catch action pack,
live events, and exclusive sports documentaries and profiles only on
Vice TV. Okay Western Conference Game three pretty much unwatchable blowout,
(16:56):
and you know there's a there's a way Minnesota has
to play to beat Okay. See, and they played it.
They did a lot of it. What's funny is it's
hard to find anybody that likes watching OKAC play. You know,
they're kind of hovering defense where they kind of they
swarm on you. I think you said it's almost collegiate
(17:20):
looking the way they play defense, and then it's a
lot of you know, drawing fouls. Sjae. I don't think
they're a fun watch. I just think they're really athletic
and really deep. Do I am I supposed to take
anything beyond just a desperate, well coached team in Minnesota
ant crazy, and it was just a young team listen,
(17:44):
really feeling their oats and just got overwhelmed and just
packed it in. I mean it is anything more than that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think there was some more in the sense that
I think that Oklahoma City is a better team than Minnesota,
but I also don't think they were type of team
that should blow them out multiple times in a row
the way they did in Game one. In Game two,
Chris Finch was running what I thought was an extremely
foolish game plan through the first two games. The gist
of it is, if I asked you what shake Giales
(18:14):
Alexander's strongest traits are as a basketball player, You'd say
he's probably the best driver of the basketball in the league.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
And he's just.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Like the best isolation player in the league. He was like,
of all isolation players who attempted at leastree hundred shots,
he was.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Number one by a mile this year.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And so what Chris Finch was doing was picking up
Shay at half court and letting him play one on one,
staying glued home to shooters. And it was just like
gift wrapping Shae the perfect environment for him to thrive
on and it was hilarious juxtaposed with a Denver series
where we saw the exact opposite game plan with lesser
defensive personnel have a great deal of success. Now they
(18:52):
won by forty because yes, there was an urgency gap,
and they shot a lot better, and there were a
lot like Anthony Edwards was hitting shots over triple teams
in the second half, Like, yeah, there was. That was
what it caused it to manifest in a destructive blowout.
But right away to start that game. One of the
reasons why they were able to quickly assert control and
hold Oklahoma City. I think they held him to fifteen
(19:14):
points in the first quarter. The reason why was they
immediately dropped back to Denver's game plan. They had Jaden
meet Shay inside the three point line, because again, if
you ball pressure a player, it's the easiest time to
drive past them because you're being forward aggressive as a defender,
so of course she's gonna go right around you. He's
literally the best. He drove to the basket more than
(19:36):
two hundred times more than the second best driver in
the league this year, Colin. That's like almost four times
a game. He's far and away the best driver you
can't pick him up that far, He's gonna go right
around you. Jaden sat back, and then they started packing
the paint off of shooters, and so as a result,
it looked like the Denver game, and all of a
sudden it turned into Oklahoma City's role players needing to
(19:58):
knock down threes and having to make tougher decisions in
the lane about whether or not he wanted to shoot
over some double and triple teams where he can have
some shortcomings, because if I asked you what Shay's biggest
weaknesses are, it's probably his three point shooting and his
ability to process in traffic in the lane. Now, he's
(20:18):
still pretty good at those things, but they're not his strengths.
And in that end of the first half he was
one for four from three, he had four turnovers. He
finished the game, I think, four for fifteen from the field.
Colin only eight times all season did Shay shoot below
forty percent from the field. He is one of the
most consistently efficient scorers in basketball. They held him to
(20:38):
thirty one percent in that game, So there definitely was
a better game plan and so as a result, I
think Game four will be a closer, more tightly contested
game because they're running the right game plan for this well.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
And I think that one of the vulnerabilities of OKC
is young teams role players are generally not as good
on the road in the playoffs. And that's exactly what
you saw. Like we've talked to about this before. Role
players at home are just different players they play. They
need that confidence, they need the swagger of the crowd.
Steph Curry doesn't and doesn't. And I think when you
force Oklahoma City and you just say okay, okay, young guys,
(21:12):
hit your shots on the road, loud crowd, it's hard,
there's a history. It's like, really really hard. And I
also think and I also think when you're playing a
team like Okay See so much, I wonder about sometimes
Okay See is so good defensively and so swarming and
(21:32):
so frenetic. I do wonder if Minnesota players tend to
spend so much of their on court time thinking about that.
So much of playing OKAYC is deciphering their defense and
figuring out I mean, you have to really be you
have to be intentional when you play them defensively, because
(21:53):
they can trap you, they can make you look bad. Fast,
and so I think sometimes when you play Okay, see
they don't play like a lot of other teams. Nobody
quite plays like them, and I think they can get
into your headspace and it's why. And then you go
on the road and they and now they lead by
six and SGA is getting the whistle. I do feel something,
(22:16):
and I don't know what the numbers say, but I
do feel like OKAC is like Indiana. I get the
same team, the same team. I got enough veterans. I
feel with Oklahoma City they're a vulnerable road team. I've
got a shot. You know, Denver. They didn't look quite
the same at Denver. Now maybe it's altitude. Now, maybe
I'm wrong on this, and the splits don't say that,
(22:36):
but I do feel like it. OKAC is a vulnerable
team on the road that you can win your home
games against them.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
They're three and three Collins and their defense, their offense
falls all the way down to a one oh four
offensive rating that's brutally bad, and their defense slides all
the way up to one twelve, which is pretty bad
for them. So you're I mean, you're not what you're
onto is what's really been happening with them.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Okay, okay, A yeah, they're a different offense on the road.
They don't feel like the same team. And that doesn't
surprise us because they're young and they and they play
with huge energy at home. But when I watch them
on the road at Denver a couple of times, I'm like,
it just doesn't feel the same. It's a different I
honestly feel of all the teams left, I get the
(23:19):
exact same team with Indiana, except for six minutes tonight.
I feel like I get this exact same pacer squad
home and away. They want to run if they can't,
you know, I just, okay, see, of all the four
teams left, I feel like I get a different OKC
team home and away.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
To your point about adjusting to okac's defense too, Like
I thought Aunt and Julius did a poor job in
the first two games of attacking their defense, Like I
call in like because Oklahoma City's defense. I don't know
if you like, just just stare at any possession Shay's
ignoring whoever he's guardian, just sitting in the basket. They've
got three, four, sometimes five guys in the paint. On
like every single drive, They're daring Minnesota to take and
(24:00):
make corner threes in this series and in the like
when after Game one when Ant was like, I vowed
to be more aggressive, I'm like, that's not the answer.
They're like, you're gonna just drive into the teeth of
the defense and you're gonna take bad shots.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And by the way, in the first half.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Of game two, you took eighteen shots and had sixteen
points to show for it. What was kind of fascinating
about the flow of this series is to your point,
you start to get more comfortable as you adjust. Aunt
and Julius were awesome in game three, especially early at
making those corner kicks, and they were finally knocking down
those corner threes. They have had three games worth of
(24:37):
experience against Oklahoma City's base defensive scheme, and they're starting
to figure it out a little bit. Oklahoma City saw
that bad game plan for two games and then Finch
throws the appropriate game plan in game three, and they
looked like completely shell shocked by it. I mean, Colin,
I don't know if you saw in game one, Oklahoma
City only took like twenty threes. And the reason why
(24:59):
is because they were staying glued off the ball and
letting Shay play one on one. It's such a fundamentally
different defensive game plan that Minnesota is rocking from this
point forward.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Now.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
To be clear, in Game four, by the way, via DraftKings,
all of our odds are from raft DraftKings. Oklahoma City
is a three point favorite in Game four. That feels
right to me. I think it's gonna be a close game.
They're gonna bring an intense defensive effort right away out
the gates. That's gonna test Ant and Julius's decision making again.
And then you're gonna see Oklahoma City because they have
seen this defense before with Denver. You're gonna see them
(25:32):
kind of come into the game prepared for that game plan.
That said, and this is the one thing I'd say, like,
I think Minnesota has a much better chance of beating
Oklahoma City from this point forward than the Knicks do
with the Pacers, because what Minnesota can bring to the
table is Denver caused problems for OKC with some weak
defensive personnel. Minnesota's got a bunch of really good defenders
(25:56):
out there, and so if they properly execute this game plan,
they could potend actual they do some real damage and
as long as they ride that momentum going forward in
the series. There's also a little bit of like a
Aunt straight up can be unguardable sometimes with some of
the shots that he can make, and like he was
just better than Shay in Game three, and if he
can maintain that, that would be the other thing that
(26:16):
could swing things back towards Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You know. Funny a segue back to the Knicks Pacers.
And I was watching the Pacers when they took that
twenty point first half lead, and they were just transition
basketball at its best. Just I mean, they score fast,
and I was thinking, don't fall for it, Colin, don't
fall for it. Because a couple of years ago, Denver
won the title and I'm like, oh, they're going to
(26:40):
reel off like three and then Bruce Brown left and
then casep and they didn't. I mean, they didn't have
a great bench to begin with, and now it's a
bad bench and they become you know, Jamal Murray gets hurt.
And I've never been a huge Michael Porter fan. I've
always been I always think Aaron Gordon's underrated Porter to me,
just I think he's an odd fit and overpaid, and
(27:02):
then all of a sudden you look up and Denver
just looks good. And I watched Indiana, I said, and
I thought to myself, God, I love watching them play.
But as I watch all of these teams, even Oklahoma City,
and we've just stated it, they're the one team that
you get a different version on the road, they're not
nearly as good as they are at home. Is that.
(27:26):
I feel like whoever wins this year will not win
the following year. And I, first of all, there's gonna
be a y honest move. KD could go to the Knicks.
They could get another basket, you know, if they moved
off Karl Anthony towns at his flakiness and just said
we're gonna go get Durant. We'll let Carl go, We'll
keep Robinson. He is what he is, but we'll have
(27:46):
Durant in the game late so we can live with him.
I feel like the Pacers feel a little bit like
the Nuggets. I'm falling in love like I fell in
love with Jokic and Gordon, and I'm like, God, I
love this team. But it wasn't as sustainable. It was
very Jokic dominant, and Murray you know, He's just one
(28:06):
of those players that I like a lot, I don't love,
and I kind of feel like with Indiana, I'm falling
for it because and I'm doing this because it's like
confirmation bias. I love watching them play, and so I'm
talking myself into Indiana is great. But then I watched
them and I think to myself, no, they're not great.
What they have as a remarkable player in Halliburton, and
(28:30):
what Denver had is a remarkable player in Jokic, and
what Minnesota has as a remarkable player in Aunt and
Brunson's one of the great small closers in the game.
Is I think this is what the NBA is going
to be, is that everybody's going to have a great
player and a very good too. But the days of
having three guys that you can depend on, I just think, Jason,
(28:51):
I think it's over. I just don't think that multiple aprons.
I don't think they allow it. And so those teams
are just going to eventually get beat. They'll come in
as a favorite, they'll have it, they'll have an injury,
they'll lose a bench guy, and I it's just funny
watching Indiana tonight. I'm like, oh boy, this team, this team,
I thought, wait, put the brakes on Jesus. They can't
(29:12):
even get to the next tonight. What if I took
these four teams, all things considered, and I said, one
of them will win multiple titles? Are you set on Okac?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, okay, So he's the only team that could theoretically
keep this kind of talent accumulated for long enough, Like
Indiana is already going to face some tough questions coming up, Like, Okay,
Miles Turner is kind of very important to the way
we play offense. Are we going to pay because Miles,
guess what Colin starting sender money in the NBA now
is like thirty million a year. Like that's like the baseline,
Like we're starting the discussion at thirty million a year.
(29:46):
That's what Isaiah Hartenstein got. And if I'm Miles Hard
Miles Turner's agent, I'm going to him like thirty's the basement, Like,
so are you gonna you how are you gonna continue
to build around Nie Smith? Who, by the by the way,
Nie Smith is a dude who just stole you a
play game, who's averaging fifteen points a game in this
playoff run? Is your primary point of attack defender and
shooting forty five percent from three. That's a twenty five
(30:07):
million dollar player. Like Halliburton's a Supermax player. Nemhard you
could argue as a twenty million dollar player. Siakam is
a forty million dollar player.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Like.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It just gets really difficult to maintain the payrolls in
these In these situations, the thing with Oklahoma City is
they're going to run into that problem in a couple
of years. They can theoretically win this year, run it back,
win again, run it back, but it will be a
shorter window relative to previous entities like this because of
(30:36):
the fact that eventually they're gonna have to pay Ja Dubb.
Cason Wallace is looking a lot like a twenty five
million dollar player to me, right, Like Jeded Holmgren's a
forty million dollar player. Jadub's going to be a forty
million dollar player. Like They're all just so good that
inevitably you're gonna have to pay all these dudes, and
it's just going to become impossible to maintain the roster.
Now there's a second conversation to have as it pertains
(30:56):
to whether or not the league should pivot from this
structure because it penalizes smartly run NBA teams. But yeah,
on the other three teams Indiana, New York, Minnesota, there's
no chance to sustain success because of just how expensive
it is to have. Like you talk about a playoff rotation,
you want six guys you can definitely trust and probably
(31:21):
a seventh that you can kind of trust. And it's
like a playoff guy you can trust is a bare
minimum twenty million in the open market. So like, it's
just very difficult to find the means with which to
maintain this. And Oklahoma City will have draft picks. They
can supplement it with draft picks, but a draft pick
isn't going to be able to impact of winning at
a playoff level right away. And you can try trading them,
(31:42):
but it's just going to bring back expensive contracts. It's
just kind of the reality of the situation. I will
say with the Knicks, Colin, I think there's a lot
of interesting Kevin Durant potensial destinations. I think the Knicks
are one. I also kind of think the Pacers are one.
One of the reasons why I like the Pacers is
like I don't think the Pacers have much of a
chance at all to beat Oklahoma City. I think it's
(32:04):
a horrible matchup for them. Oklahoma City has six lightning
fast guards that can chase all their guards around and
they could switch everything, and they also have im protection,
and they have all the offensive talent to be able
to score on them. I worry about the Pacers' ability
to get a bucket against a team that can keep
them in front. And they're a team like if I
(32:24):
had if I just had a better version of Siakam,
I all of a sudden view them as a more
substantial title threat, and so like, they're a team that
I could see like, Okay, we're a little older, Miles
Turner's kind of older. We need to make some sort
of win now, move to capitalize on this before it
gets too expensive. I could see KD being that guy
for them as well. There's a bunch of teams where
KD could immediately raise their ceiling.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Okay, I want to I want to bring this up.
We can close on this. Because I saw this today,
it's fascinating. So a university professor in finance looked up
the value of Caitlin Clark for the WNBA. This is insane.
So this year. Last season in the WNBA, Caitlin Clark
(33:14):
was twenty six and a half percent of all economic
activity as a rookie on the worst team in the
league when she entered it. So now she has an
eight year, one hundred and twenty eight million dollar deal
with Nike, so you know she's she's gonna eat merchandise
(33:35):
in the league. Went up off a rookie from a
Midwest based school on the worst team in the league
two hundred and thirty four percent. But here was the
one that struck me so before she got there, the
Indiana Fever, the valuation of the franchise was ninety million.
Remember they play a short season, it's not like the
(33:56):
NBA or it lasts like six months playing what forty games.
The valuation of that team now is three hundred and
forty million dollars. She is almost that is, she has
quadrupled the value. And I was talking. I was with
(34:18):
a group of friends tonight at dinner and and people
that didn't know the WNBA were like asking, well, well, why,
like what does she do? And we said, well, she
makes passes and take shots that nobody else in the
sport does. So she's a bit of a. It's like
when Tiger Woods came on the tour, like he drove
it further, He's long, putting was better, he looked like
(34:40):
a football player in the red shirts, like he just
was different than every other golfer you grew up with,
and people like unique and different. Here, my question to
you is there's still no other Like somebody said at
the party, well, there'll be another Caitlin Clark, and I'm like, well,
there's not another Steph Curry. Like there's guys that can
(35:00):
shoot threes, don't I don't think it's a game you
duplicate and I listen, let's just be honest. There are
more great male athletes in the world than female athletes.
There is no second Steph Curry. There is no other
player in that plays like that. My take is she
could be a billion dollar athlete. Are you Are you
(35:24):
surprised by it? Like when I see these numbers, I'm like, oh,
this is Tiger and the Tour. This doesn't this isn't
even Jordan, this is totally different.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Well, I think when you look at basketball, there are
two real kind of like ultimate show type of athletes
that you see, meaning like must see television and it's
the supreme vertical athlete, which think like young Lebron or
kind of like Anthony.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Edwards Dominique for a while.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah yeah, look like the guy that does stuff in
the air that is unlike anything you see anyone or
Jay hmmm. And then the second piece of it is
just unbelievable shot making. Those are the two things. Those
are the two things that like really bring eyes to television.
To take it a step further, there are two types
(36:14):
of basketball players that I think are far and away
the most winning impact in the current game of basketball.
It's the big, strong playmaker think Lebron, Luka Jokic, And
it's the indomitable shooter, which there's really only been Steph.
I think those two types of players are the players
(36:36):
that give you the best chances to win basketball games
in the modern in the modern world. Now, what makes
it fascinating to me because that's what Caitlyn Clark is.
She's a different type of player, and she can do
a lot of different types of things, but she's essentially
bringing a Steph Curry like basketball impact to the WNBA.
It's really this simple. If you can shoot the way
that she shoots, so the way step shoots and you
(36:58):
can perpetually in motion running around. Inevitably there is an
overreaction to your shooting ability. And we see this all
the time with Kaitlyn, just like you're gonna see you're
gonna see Aliah Boston get NonStop easy buckets in the
mid range or rolling to the basket, because every time
she sets a screen for Caitlin, her defender is stepping
(37:20):
up to guard Caitlin because as she comes off of
that screen, if you're not there, she's gonna shoot it
and she's gonna make it. And so there's a reaction
that invert spacing in brings a four on three because
you bring multiple defenders away from the rim, there's a
four on three with a vacated paint and because of that,
(37:41):
there's a lot of easy opportunities to score there. Like
that's the thing with Steph Curry, Like Steph Curry is
not the same shot maker that he was four years
ago in twenty twenty one, but just the simple threat
of him running around gives the Warriors a chance to score.
And that's the thing. Like Caitlyn hasn't even really started
hitting shots yet this year, or the way that she's
capable of but everyone knows she can and they guard
(38:02):
her in that fashion. And so to me, it's kind
of like a proof of concept in that if you
can shoot and you can run around the way that
Steph does, and you can strike fear into a defense
in that way, the trickle down effects with the way
that defenses guard, you just make everything so much easier
for her. And like you could argue she's already the
best offensive engine in the WNBA and she's literally a
(38:24):
second year player, and like, and she still has so
much room to improve, Like, she still struggles with ball pressure,
she still turns the she turned the ball over too
much against the Liberty the other night. She still has
a little bit of an issue where she kind of
cross fires across her face, which makes it so she
can only shoot going left. She needs to build it
out so that she can shoot running to her right
as well. But like, judging by her psycho competitive attitude,
(38:47):
she's probably gonna figure that stuff out in the next
year or two and then she'll be the best player
in the league. And so like, to me, it's just
she fits the mold of one of the most impactful
types of basketball players you can be today, which is
the deadly movement shooter. If you're a deadly movement shooter,
it just opens up so many things for an offense.
And and honestly, I just think I think she's musty
(39:08):
television Colin. I've watched all four of her games, and
I'm in my busy season, Like you think i'd be
taking a break. My wife said to me the other day,
She's like, you're watching more basketball, and like it's Katelyn Clark,
We're watching more basketball. Come over here, let's watch this.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Like she's incredible and she's not getting she doesn't know
it's get the consistent great star whistle. She I mean,
there's I think they're still kind of figuring out how
to officiate her right, like like when you're when you know,
I've said this for years when I covered Shack and
Shack got foul more than anybody I've ever seen. I mean,
(39:40):
it was insane. You just people bounced off Shack. Yoki
feel Yokics complains constantly like people are bouncing off me.
She doesn't quite get as favorable a whistle as you think.
So I I think.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Neither's Steph too. That's the funny part.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Well, and I think I will give the w NBA credit.
They they just didn't understand the tsunami ever popularity, like
they didn't get the schedule, and you don't know what
you don't know. They've done a much better job to
I mean, all her games are on television. Every time
I turn on a WA every time I see a
promote promotion for the WNBA, it's Caitlin Clark, so they're there.
(40:19):
But I do think there's a process on. You know,
you're an official. You don't want to give her too
favorable a whistle because the players in the league will
resent her to some degree. She's getting all this attention
and I don't. And I will say this, I've defended
the w NBA with this. Baseball and a WNBA feel ignored.
The NFL and the NBA and college football they get
(40:42):
a lot of press, and baseball always feels like, hey,
we're America's pastime. So they're very insular, sometimes very provincial.
And the WNBA, similarly, you don't pay attention to us.
So there's part of it, like I get like they
sort of resent this one player. Nobody talks WNBA. They do,
and it's all her. You know, I remember when Tiger
(41:03):
was eighteen nineteen, twenty years old coming ont of the tour.
There were a lot of people in golf that were like,
could you guys show, could you talk in your sportscast
about anybody other than Tiger Woods? So she's not. Bryce
Harper came into baseball. He fought with an own teammate
in a dugout because it was like, Oh, everybody wants
to talk to So I do defend the WNBA. Is
that I get if nobody paid attention to you for
(41:25):
twenty six years and now they do, and they feign
interested in the rest of the league what we all
care about Caitlyn. So the animosity built up by players,
I give it a little bit of a pass.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I think that people are spending too much time on race.
You know, it is what it is. There's a million platforms,
a million opinions, but I don't know. My take is
there's still in the adjustment period with Caitlin. How to market,
how to promote, how to officiate, how to defend, And
it's just fluid. That's what it feels like to me.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I think that like when I see the complaining, like
I saw some players complain and some some members of
the media complain that she was on TV so much,
and let's just take us out, take fairness and just
put it to the side for a minute, like even
with Nike and giving Caitlin a shoot like set that
aside for a minute and just focus on her being
on television. Okay, her being on television brought my eyes
(42:23):
to it. I didn't watch the WNBA. I have grown
to really enjoy watching WNBA basketball even when she's not
on and they're like the Nafisa Collier became one of
my favorite basketball players watching her in the finals run
last year. And what brought me to the television was Caitlyn.
So like, let's say that the league came out there
like every Caitlyn Clark games on national television, like that's
(42:46):
just what we're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Deal with it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
That would be genius because the best way you can
market the other WNBA players is to have them play
against Caitlin Clark because we'll all be watching. Okay, well,
no one's covering the rest of the league. Okay, but
if you put Haitln on television and you get more
people to watch, it will create more WNBA fans, and
we live in the most colin I started making NBA
(43:09):
content out of my guest bedroom. Okay, you create a
bunch of WNBA fans, passionate members of the media will
originate from that mass and will cover the league better,
and overall the league will gain in popularity and gain
and impact, and it will become a momentous thing that
carries forward and actually does shine a big flashlight on
the rest of the WNBA. Haitlan Clark is the vehicle
(43:32):
with which to microwave that, to accelerate it, and to
move it into a fast track towards what could be
a bright future for the WNBA. It's great basketball. It's
genuinely great basketball. She's the best vehicle with which to
elevate the sport. I think anything they can do to
put her on TV and promote her is the best
(43:53):
thing they could do for the sport.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, it's Connor McGregor UFC. You know, you knew it existed.
You'd seen fights. You start buying pay per view cards
and sitting through two and a half hours to get
to his fight, and then all of a sudden, you
found yourself a year later hooked on two other fighters.
Because Dana White would put the second most popular fighter
in the undercards, So all of a sudden, it's John
Jones into Connor McGregor and then they So it's just
(44:17):
basic marketing. And I've said before, I do think the
WNBA women's basketball, and I'd said this years ago in
FS one, probably five years ago, the sport was getting better.
The women were, you know, several generations of women were
encouraged to play basketball and to be athletes, and nutritionists
came into the sport and better trainers. There was money
(44:39):
in the league, so they had better training and the
players were getting better. But it takes this, Listen, it
took Magic and Bird in the NBA to take a
league that there were some financial problems. So it's not
like a gender issue, it's a I mean, I think
Connor McGregor's erosion as a fighter has heard UFC. It
(45:00):
doesn't feel as urgent. And that's and that's already established.
And so and we all know that Michael Jordan left.
Once Magic Bird and Michael had driven the league up,
Michael left, the ratings dropped fifty percent. So this stuff
outside of the NFL, it's all cyclical, it's all market based,
it's all star based and it's just the WNBA, you know,
(45:24):
was waiting for its first Tiger, and golf's probably had
four in my life, you know, Jack Nicholson, Arnold Palmer, Tiger.
I think Rory's got a little bit of it, Phil Mickelson.
So the history of golf, you know, if you modern
history is felt like five guys that have done it.
So there's no reason to be defensive about it. It
(45:44):
just it's all these leagues. They all eventually, I mean,
look at boxing. Allie took it from whatever it was
to the next level. Then there were Sugar, Ray Leonard
and Hagler. But when Larry Holmes arrived, nobody wanted to
watch Larry Holmes. That took an old George Forman selling
a grill that you bake chicken on or cook chicken
(46:05):
on to I mean literally to get the casual back
into boxing. Was George Foreman's second tour. So this is
the way sports works outside of football.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
The cyclical thing is so fascinating because that's literally what
the NBA is about to go through. Lebron and Steph
won eight titles in eleven years and now there's not
really a big name yet. Now you could argue that
the parody might prevent the rise of a star, and
that's a separate conversation for another day, but it is
really fascinating. We're in one of those cycles right now
with the NBA. The old guard's going out and there's
a new guard coming up. But Colin, I sincerely appreciate
(46:38):
you give it us your time tonight. This has been
a super fun playoff runt. I'm sure we'll be talking
in about a week or so. Again, everyone, thank you
guys so much for supporting the show. No playback tonight,
just a heads up. We'll be back with that tomorrow night,
and then I'll be live on YouTube after the final
buzzer of Game four of what should be an incredible
Western Conference Finals game tomorrow night.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
I will see you guys then. What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. Actually be really helpful for us if you
guys would take a second and leave a rating and
a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us,
but if you could take a minute to do that,
I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
The volume
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com