May 23, 2025 • 44 mins
Jason reacts live after the Oklahoma City Thunder take a 2-0 lead over the Minnesota Timberwolves with a big win in Game 2. He discusses Shai Gilgeous-Alexander living up to his MVP, Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren continuing their strong play, Anthony Edwards being more aggressive but ultimately falling short.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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co slash audio. All right, welcome to hoop tonight. You're
(02:03):
at the volume heavy Thursday. Everybody, hope all you guys
are having a great week.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Game two of the Western Conference Finals looked very similar
to Game one, except for we didn't get the rough
shooting performance from shake Yelgas Alexander in the first quarter.
We got a few different defensive looks from Minnesota, neither
of which I thought were the answer, and once again
down the stretch, Oklahoma City pulls away as Minnesota just
gets frustrated and kind of lets go of the rope,
(02:29):
and we are headed back to Minnesota with the Thunder
up two to zero. In this series, we're gonna be
breaking down this game from the perspective of both teams.
I'm gonna talk about some potential adjustments. We're gonna be
talking a lot about SGA today and some of the
specific ways that he's super effective as an on ball
score our Microsoft segment today, we're gonna be covering Shay's
MVP case, lots of Shaye talk today, and then at
(02:51):
the tail end of the show, we'll take ten to
fifteen minutes of mailbag questions from the chat. When we
finish up here tonight, we're gonna be heading over to
Playback for our usual after show. That's where we take
callers we watched film. We have a much more informal,
just have fun talking hoops type of experience. I've been
having a blast with those shows. I hope you guys
will come over and hang out with us again. That's
(03:12):
playback dot tv slash Hoops Tonight right after we get
done here. On YouTube, you guys know the jope before
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You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me
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Jackson is doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.
(03:36):
Make sure you guys follow us there, and then, like
we mentioned earlier, keep dropping those mail bag questions in
the YouTube comments so we can get to them at
the tail end of the show from the chat. All right,
let's talk some basketball. So I thought tonight it was
a classic example of how watching the box score is
not the answer to who is playing better in any
(03:56):
particular game. We had a question right after game where
someone asked me why I wasn't more critical of Anthony
Edwards scoring zero points in the fourth quarter. And one
of the things we've talked a lot about since that
is the reality in the massive difference between the way
these two teams are guarding each other, and it was
(04:17):
way more aggressive tonight. He had thirty two, nine and
six and he was a minus twenty two, and I
didn't think he played particularly well. The reality is is
these two teams are guarding each other in diametrically opposed fashion.
The Thunder are packing the paint, conceding corner kickouts, literally
(04:40):
begging frant and Julius to try to force it into
traffic so that they can be inefficient and turn the
basketball over on the other end of the floor. In
the other part of it, too, is they're just trying
to force Minnesota their role players to take mildly contested
corner threes in high pressure situations on the other end
(05:01):
of the floor, With exception of a few sequences of
zone which we'll talk about in a little bit, which
a thunderscored fine against, and then kind of a haphazard
aggressive double team approach against Shae in the fourth quarter,
a lot of just staying home on shooters and just
pressing up on Shae, playing one on one against him,
(05:22):
defending ball screens two on two. The job for Shae
in this series is to score the basketball. So what
I'm looking for from Shaye is scoring volume and efficiency.
The job for Aunt and Julius in this series is
to get the ball out to their shooters on time,
(05:44):
on target in the shooting pocket so that they can
either make the defense pay knocking down the shot or
drive a close out and get the defense into rotation
where they can attack from there. And Ant came out tonight,
took eighteen shots in the first half, and like, there
was some good looks in there, some good three point
shots off the catch that I liked, some that he made,
(06:05):
some that he missed, driving layup off of a Julius
Randall post up where he was one pass away where
he finished over the top of chet driving to close out.
There are shots in there that I liked. There are
some even some one There are even some on ball
one on one shots that I liked in there, But
they were like eight or nine of those shots that
I thought were bad shots early clock contested pull up
(06:26):
threes against a pick and roll coverage, or trying to
knife through six different bodies in the paint, including his
own teammates, to try to finish in traffic. I thought
he forced the issue tonight and Minnesota couldn't score. They
didn't score over twenty five points in a quarter until
the fourth quarter. On the other end of the floor,
(06:47):
Shay came out and consistently and efficiently worked out of
ISOs and ball screens to make the Wolves pay for
letting them play one on one and letting them play.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Two on too.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So the question is how is it that Shaye continues
to be so successful against the defense as good as Minnesota's,
And it goes deeper than the game plan. Part of
it is the game plan, but by the way, Shaye
has torched Minnesota all year long. The first half of
Game one was the exception. He has torched these guys.
Part of it is the game plan. Chris Finch historically
(07:24):
has trusted his one on one defenders and wanted to
stay home off the ball. That is very much a
Chris Finch ideology. It's like the exact opposite of what
you see from OKC or Memphis or some of these
younger Ford aggressive pack to paint types of types of teams.
But it goes deeper than that. Minnesota has elite one
(07:44):
on one defenders. Jaden McDaniels is theoretically the perfect type
of player to guard a guy like Shae, a guy
that he can't overpower, a guy that has. He's got
longer arms, is taller, who moves his feet well, great
at contesting pull up jump shots. We even saw him
block Shay pull up three tonight like He's theoretically the
(08:07):
perfect type of player to guard it, but shake. Gilles
Alexander was the best high volume ISO player in the
league this year for a reason. Out of the five
players to run at least three hundred ISOs to take
at least three hundred shot attempts out ISO's his one
point one zero points per possession rate number one in
the league, and it's a simple dynamic. He is the
(08:28):
best driver of the basketball in the world, and he's
one of the highest field goal percentage pull up shooters
in the world. That's the give and take with it.
He logged two hundred and sixty five more drives than
any other player in the NBA this year, In other words,
four more per game than anyone in the NBA this year,
(08:50):
and he's one of the highest field goal percentage pull
up shooters in the world. At Out of the thirteen
players to take at least five hundred pull up jump
shots this year. Only Demarta ros In shot a higher
field goal percentage than Shay, and Shay was more efficient
because he took more threes. Shay shot forty five percent
on mid on pull up jump shots one point zero
(09:10):
six points per shot. This puts every defender, even fantastic
defenders like Jad McDaniels and a bind. You have to
overreact to the drive, but at the same time you
have to overreact to the pull up because he's so
good at both. And this is where Shay's brilliance comes
into the equation, because he's remarkably gifted at selling one
(09:30):
or the other, changing pace, selling fakes. He has a
ridiculous ability to chain together counter moves. I've never seen
a player that can get into your body and cross
over and get into your body and behind the back
and get into your body and spin and just counter
counter counter until you eventually give up that angle. And
(09:50):
when he give up, when you give up that angle,
that's when he goes downhill on you and if you
concede space. He's one of the best over the top
shooters in the league. One of the things he was
doing tonight that I found really interesting whether it was
in ball screens or in ISO situations, he's snaking the
help defender. You guys ever see this in ball screens
where like a guy will come over the top of
(10:12):
the screen and then he'll cross back over to the
direction he originally came from, and the big man will
have no idea what to do is he kind of
works back towards the middle. Shay will do that on drives.
He'll hard drive, someone will hard step over and help,
and he'll just immediately cross back over into the middle.
And now all of a sudden, the help defenders got
his body, a'll shift it out of position and he's
(10:33):
right at the front of the rim again. It's one
of the biggest reasons why I think Minnesota absolutely must
change their game plan. This whole situation gets exacerbated by
Jada McDaniel's ball pressure. I talked about this in Game one.
You guys saw it again on the last driving layup
that he had down the right side of the lane tonight,
when Jaden.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Is picking him up twenty eight feet.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
From the basket, that's just food for Shay. He's going
right around him. Every single time we did see some
shift from Finch. We saw some zone that didn't work.
We'll talk about it in a minute. Again, they tried
doubling in the fourth quarter a little bit more. I
don't think those are the answers. I'll talk about it
(11:15):
in a minute when we start talking about Minnesota's adjustments.
But the weaknesses for OKC that have been on display
this postseason is sometimes Shay will force the issue through
multiple bodies. When the defense is trying to force him
to be a passer, he'll force it sometimes. And two,
(11:35):
their catch and shoot guys can go deadly cold sometimes
in this defensive scheme, which takes away catch and shoot threes,
Let's Shay work one on one and pressures the ball,
which allows him to drive to the basket. Is literally
playing directly into Oklahoma City's hands. Every playoff series is
(11:56):
a chess match, and that chess match starts with your
base line scheme, usually a defensive scheme geared towards the matchup.
For Chris Finch and the Wolves, it was geared towards
exactly what they did in the regular season. To everybody,
it's their kind of like stock scheme that they use
right and nothing is going to change for either team
(12:17):
until you show an ability to beat that base scheme.
You want to know why we saw zone out of
Minnesota tonight. You want to know why we saw doubling
because they're grasping at straws because Shay is killing them
one on one.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You want to know why.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Okac has more or less been doing the same thing
on defense through the entire series to this point, It's
because Ant keeps trying to force his way into traffic.
Julius Randall forced his way right out of the game tonight.
They are not showing the ability to dislodge Oklahoma City
from their base scheme. Part of that is Minnesota's walked
(12:53):
into the series with a certain amount of ego thinking,
we have the best individual defenders in the league. Look
what we do to Luca, Look what we did to Lebron,
Look what we did to Austin. And you know, obviously
the dregs of the Golden State roster after Steph got hurt.
But like they went in that series thinking they were
gonna be just fine. And again, like, what did I
(13:14):
complain about in the Lakers series? What did I say consistently?
Why did Minnesota win because Lebron couldn't score, because Luca
couldn't score because Austin couldn't score when they needed to
score in the pivotal moments of the game. Shay continually
has given these dudes buckets. They can't guard him one
on one. And so here we are through two games,
(13:37):
and as we head back to Minnesota, they've got to
they've got to shift their base scheme and we'll see
what happens next. I'm gonna talk some Minnesota adjust Minnesota
adjustments in a minute. Okome a city beating the zone.
I thought it really came down to two things. Their
offensive rebounding and again, this is a problem with zone
in general. You're not matched up with individual offensive players,
and so there's a tendency to give up cuts and
(13:58):
crashes because you're just not matched up with guys and
you can give up offensive rebounds in that way. And
then Alex Cruso on his ability to score in the
middle of the floor. One of the things he'll see
against his zone, especially when you've got a chet Holmegrin
or an Isaiah Hartenstein that can be a vertical spacer
underneath the basket, the big man will not want to
(14:18):
come out to the middle of the floor. He won't
want to come out to the middle because he'll give
up that lob or that dunk. So with the top
guys being concerned with the guys on the top tracking
the three point line, corner guys the same thing, a
lot of two three zones will concede a catch there
in the middle, and Crusoe over and over again just
(14:41):
kept catching the ball in the middle of the floor
and scoring there as he was left open, and so
the zone just didn't work for Minnesota to slow down
Oklahoma City in this game. I J Dub and Chet
were both fantastic. Jet's been really effective in this series
around the rim as a score since basically the second
half of Game one, and a big part of that
(15:03):
is that same dynamic we were talking about earlier. Everything's
like in ball screens they're being defended two on two.
In the one on ones when they're offering help, they're
not like swarming. They're bringing one guy over, usually the
big in which case when he steps over, Chet's finding
opportunities as an offensive rebounder. Both Chet and JDub were
(15:24):
deadly in transition in this game. I thought that was big.
But to get fifty or to excuse me, to get
forty eight points from those two guys. That's one of
the best supporting scoring games we've seen the Thunder get
in this postseason. And then overall just Oklahoma City's defense,
which has been fantastic in this entire playoff run. They
erased Julius Randall in this game. If you guys remember,
(15:47):
I talked before the series about the specific thing that
tilted me back towards Oklahoma City. Even though my initial
gut feeling was that Minnesota had advantage in this series,
the big thing that tilted me back towards Oklahoma City
was the specific die you saw tonight, the inability to
get the ball to Julius Randall in an advantageous scoring position.
Oklahoma City went back to the exact same approach that
(16:08):
they used against Denver, which was just fronting the post,
and we saw multiple steals on plays where Julius tried
to get the arm into the back and create that
over the top passing angle. Pass comes in over the top,
but there's ball pressure, so that passes like a looping pass,
and here comes lou Dort shooting in on the back
line to get that steal. I think it was Shay
(16:31):
that got the other one coming over and swiping away
against the post front as he brackets from behind. Their
defense has been fantastic in the series. The ball pressure,
the rim contests the Shay has been causing some problems
for Ant with like late contests at the rim he
forced to miss, he got a block on a late
one where Ant got bailed out by an iffy foul call.
(16:52):
There's a there is a layered effect to this Oklahoma
City defense that is having big time impact on Minnesota.
Minnesota notes couple things. The big thing is they need
to change their defensive approach. I don't think the answer
is zoned. I don't think the answer is ball pressure.
(17:13):
I don't think the answer is double teaming. I think
the answer is you play defense the way Denver did
you have Jaden McDaniels sit in a passive defensive stance
where he's meeting Shay closer to the elbows. We saw
that when Jaden kind of gives space, he can close
ground and get a great contest on a shade pull
(17:35):
up three. Instead of pressuring Shay, he needs to be
playing off, sitting back, making Shae drive into him where
he has more time to anticipate the driving angle and
to beat him to spots, and it's more likely to
bait Shae in to pull up jump shots. Then I
do think they need to be using the Denver approach
of gapping really hard, getting into the point where you've
(17:58):
got four bodies in the ain't consistently and dare Shae
and these guys to beat you in the half court
as passers. When you double team shay out at half court,
it creates a four on three in a massive area
of space. There's so much space to work with there.
You guys have seen the Golden State Warriors annihilate teams
(18:19):
for a decade using those four on threes with that
kind of space. When you double double team quote unquote
Shae in the form of more like three four bodies
in the paint consistently, that is a situation that creates
the advantage for Oklahoma City on the perimeter. Make Shae
(18:39):
relentlessly hunt kickout reads, make these dudes knock down contested
jump shots. Now, one of the things is I did
think it was defensible, even though I do think this game,
this series was inevitably careening towards a defensive shift towards
more what I'm talking about, I did think that it
was defensible to try it again tonight. It was defensible
(19:02):
because theoretically, you kept game one close and you just
missed a ton of kickout threes. So in theory, you
go into game two, you stick with your base defensive
game plan, guys shoot better, and you have a chance
to go back back home with a one to one series,
(19:24):
and maybe you can hold that card in your back pocket.
But now through two games, it's abundantly clear that these
guys aren't going to be able to knock down enough
of those kickouts in the corner against those contests, and
so now it's at the point where now it's at
the point where you have to consider changing your defensive approach.
(19:45):
You've got to get more stops than you've been getting.
Oklahoma City since the first half of Game one, has
consistently scored at high volume. Seventy points in the second
half of Game one, fifty eight points in the first
half of game two, sixty points in the second half
of game two. They are scoring on you consistently for
(20:08):
a game and a half.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Now you have to change that scheme.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I also think it's defensible in the sense that it's
hard to win on the road, and so throwing that
like Game three is a must win now you gotta
get that one. So I like the idea of going
into game three and shifting your scheme in that game.
Or you're also getting the benefit of role players being
more comfortable feeding off of the crowd, potentially Oklahoma City's
(20:35):
role players getting less comfortable. That's where I think that could,
you know, especially with the scheme change, that could tilt
things more heavily towards Minnesota. And so I think I
think in game three there needs to be way less
ball pressure, way more of a contain and compact the paint.
Force Shay to beat you with the pass, force Oklahoma
(20:55):
City to beat you from the perimeter instead of letting
them knifeet a pieces in the middle of the lane
like they have through the first two games. Another fifty
eight points in the paint tonight for Oklahoma City. A
couple other things I talked about in game one, how
I would potentially consider leaning into Rudy Gobert more. No
more of that. I thought Rudy was bad tonight. I
(21:17):
thought he was bad on defense, and I thought he
was nightmarishly bad on offense. He got thirty minutes tonight,
I didn't think he was effective at any point. So
I'm kind of over the Rudy Gobert experience in this series.
The complete inability to finish anything in the pocket and
then on defense like him not contesting Isaiah Hartenstein's floater
(21:38):
down low, even though we got clear at film from
the Denver series that that's how you bother him. The okay,
you're on a switch against Shay Gills Alexander, or handling
Shay in a drop coverage, and you're just fouling him
every time. He's not providing any real resistance. I don't
see the Rudy value in this series anymore. So we
talked about that as being a potential option to explore
(22:00):
in game one or after game one. You explored it
more tonight. No more need to explore that territory. I
don't think this is a series where Rudy can be
very effective. Julius rand last to change his approach. I
thought he tried to force his way through a slump today.
We talked a lot about this example in the last
few weeks in our playback sessions, but the idea of
(22:23):
like how do you get yourself out of a slump
when the shots aren't falling. There's option one, which is
take every shot you can get your eyes on. We
saw a lot of that with like Dante DiVincenzo in
Game one, for example, and in that sort of situation,
you're most likely just going to compound the problem because
you're probably going to be taking a bunch of iffy
(22:45):
shots that are low percentage under any circumstances, especially when
you're not in a good rhythm. The second method is
find ways to generate easy shots and derive confidence from
the dirty work. Defend your ass off, rebound your ass off,
control everything that's in your control, which will help boost
(23:08):
your confidence to where you feel better on the offensive end,
and then on the offensive end, fight for easy looks.
Transition pushes, offensive rebound crashes, anything with the real advantage,
whether it's a post mismatch or it's say, you know,
a semi transition opportunity where you can drop your shoulder.
There's a very brief stretch in the third quarter where
(23:29):
Julius like really started to force the issue physically. He
got like a deep transition seal for a bucket, another
like deep post up, and then a couple of like
semi transition pushes and I'm like, hey, like this is better.
But there was this huge stretch of the game where
he was already one for five, one for six, and
he's just taking every semi contested three he can get
his hands on, and like, that's just not gonna get
(23:51):
you out of that sort of slump. Again, there's this
is where I'll move to the last adjustment here and
Julius have to be looking to be aggressive with an advantage,
not at the beginning of the possession. At the beginning
of the possession, they're attacking a loaded up Oklahoma City
defense that is praying to God that they will do
something stupid like try to score through all of them
(24:13):
in the paint. The on ball guy, whether it's Julius
or its Aunt, or it's one of the role players,
needs to be looking in By the way, one of
the things they're doing with the other role players is
they're not overreacting as much on those pushes or anything
in the middle of the floor. But if Julius and Aunt,
whether it's through the post or it's through a pick
and roll or an ISO or whatever it is, get
the ball to the middle, get it sprayed out from there,
(24:37):
drive and kickspacing, get out of the middle of the
floor somewhere where you can get back in a position
to catch that guy will either catch and shoot and
make a wide open catch and shoot three or against
a close out will drive and now you have an
opportunity to attack when the defense is shifted and sprinting
at you. That is where Aunt and Julius can look
(24:58):
to be aggressive and score. This is not an on
ball scoring series for Ant and Julius. It is an
on ball playmaking and off ball scoring series for Aunt
and Julius. They have to make that adjustment or they
are never going to crack Okac out of their base scheme.
All right, before we get to our mail back questions,
let's do our course correction segment on Shay's MVP. Welcome
(25:20):
to course Correction, brought to you by Microsoft. Just like
star players and teams navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers
today are under immense pressure to get things right. They
must rise to the occasion, turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft
empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management,
and trustworthy responsible AI. And when you're in the NBA,
(25:41):
you have your own hurdles to face. In this segment,
we will highlight the player every week that has risen
to the occasion when his team needed him. Whatever challenge
you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say,
bring it on. This week's Player of the Week is
the twenty twenty five MVP of the NBA, Shay Gilders.
Alexander Shay had a remarkable statistical season thirty three points
(26:03):
per game, five rebounds, six assists, one point seven steals
in a block, sixty four percent true shooting. That's somehow
under selling how important he was to the Oklahoma City offense.
Per cleaning the glass. The Thunder offense was nine point
one points per one hundred possessions better when he was
on the floor versus off. The strength of the Thunder
(26:27):
is their defense. We all know that, and their defense
is elite down the roster, regardless of who was on
the floor, including Shay. But they could not score with
Shay off the floor this year. They had a one
to fourteen point eight offensive rating with him off. For perspective,
that's a lower offensive rating than the Houston Rockets log
this year in the regular season, but they had a
(26:48):
one twenty four offensive rating when Shay was on the floor,
which is three points better than the number one offense
in the league, the Cleveland Cavaliers. We were talking about
Nicole Yokich having the greatest offensive season of all time.
They had a won twenty six offensive rating with Yokic
on the floor. Shaye was producing with that Thunder offense
at nearly the same level. In other words, the Thunder
(27:12):
offense went from mediocre to elite top tier production when
Shae was on the floor. And this goes beyond the
metrics to the eye test. There were so many times
this year where Shaye's entire supporting cast lost their confidence
and he had no choice but to completely take control
of the game. He was also one of the most
reliably great scores in the league this year. Shay had
(27:36):
just nine games this season where he shot below forty
percent from the field. For comparison, a guy like Ant
twenty five such games. Oh well, Aunt takes a lot
of threes. Okay, how about Brunson. Brunson's a guy who
lives in the mid range. Twenty one times this year
Brunson shot below forty percent from the field. How is
(27:58):
it that Shay is so reliably good on the defensive
end of the four well for starters, two thirds of
his shot attempts come within seventeen feet, so there's very
little variants because there's very little long range jump shooting.
And then on those short range jumpers, which would be
the one thing in there that has a lot of variants,
(28:19):
he shot fifty four percent on jumpers inside of seventeen feet,
so he was deadly on the one thing in his
two thirds of his game that occurs within seventeen feet
of the rim that would theoretically come with some variants.
He also got to the rim an absurd amount. We
talked about his drives earlier, five hundred and fifty attempts
(28:39):
at the rim this season, according to Synergy. For Perspective, NICOLEA.
Jokic logged five hundred and fifty three attempts at the
rim this season, only three more than Shay did. I
thought he was very much deserving of the MVP. I'm
a big Jokic fan, and I do think Jokic is
a better basketball player than Shay is.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That's not the purpose of this award.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
It's a regular season award, and Shae was the best
regular season player in the league this year for by
far the best team in the league. They finished eighteen
games ahead of Denver. I also thought Jokics let go
the rope defensively in the second half of the season,
and that played directly into the problems they had down
the stretches. They slid down the standings and had to
(29:23):
fire their coach. I heard a lot of talk about
Jokic having the greatest offensive season ever and us looking
back this year and thinking that the MVP decision we
made was a mistake. I don't see it that way
at all. I think SGA's MVP case is beyond well deserved.
I don't think any player in the league had a
reasonable case to be over him. So congratulations to Shay.
(29:48):
Obviously you just won the MVP. But at this point
I would be stunned if the Thunder didn't win the title.
I think they match up extremely well with both Indiana
in New York, two teams that rely on guard play
and speed, and Oklahoma City has just got better speed
and better guard play while also being better defensively on
(30:08):
the back line than both of those teams. I think
they would dispatch if both the Knicks and the Pacers
in five games or less, and at this point you're
up two to zero in the Western Conference Finals in Minnesota.
Hasn't even come remotely close to dislodging you from your
base game plan? Or does that tell me? That tells
(30:28):
me this time a month from now, the Thunder are
going to be hoisting the trophy and Shay won't just
be an MVP, He'll be a finals MVP. And if
you start to look at the Thunder and the assets
they have at their disposal, and the age of their roster,
and the fact that they still have so much room
to improve, it might not even be the first one
(30:49):
he gets. That's it for this week's course correction. Remember
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(31:11):
Jackson's gonna come on stage and we're gonna take ten
to fifteen minutes of questions.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
First question, probably, and this person said, probably a little
bit early to ask.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
This kind of question.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
But now that they're continuing to dominate, is this Okac
defense one of the best ever? And if they win
the title, will they be one of the best teams ever?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
So you're never gonna hear me talk about a basketball
team being one of the best basketball teams ever until
they win multiple championships. I'm consistent about this stuff. Here's
a really simple way to put it. Boston had a
similar year last year where they ran through the entire league,
won sixty four games, kicked everyone's ass in the postseason,
never even felt remotely threatened like Oklahoma City showed some
(31:49):
flaws against Denver and looked like threatened at one point
in time. I I told Boston fans at the time,
I didn't see them as an all time great team
because you kind of have to earn that, right with
me and guys like, I'm pretty consistent about this stuff,
Like it was the same thing with Jokic back in
the day. Like I think that there's a conversation you
(32:10):
can have about who's the best at something, But I'm
usually the guy that like wants to see you accomplish
the ultimate goal first. I don't like theoretical success. I
like real life success. And so for me, like, I
think the Thunder have every possibility to be an all
time great team that wins multiple championships and when they do,
(32:30):
if they do, we will acknowledge them as as such.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
But I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I don't like to jump the gun there as far
as the defense goes, and again, we got to see
see it just survive like multiple seasons. So like say say,
for instance, you beat Denver again next year, different Denver team,
or you beat like a Spurs team that has Yannis
and Wemby and Dearren Fox. Like, the idea of winning
multiple championships involves two separate seasons where you beat four
(32:58):
different teams in four differ rounds that are very different
types of teams. And so the defense side of it,
I need to see that defense have that success through
multiple playoff runs. That said, I absolutely see that upside
and I thought it manifested in them that Denver offense
was unbelievable all year and for extended stretches. Not only
(33:20):
did they quote unquote dislodge or frustrate Denver's offense, they
played Jokic into probably the worst three game stretch I've
ever seen in play in game two three and four,
so or was it three four and five?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I can't even remember. I think it was two three
and four.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
But like, yeah, like the defense certainly has that capability,
The team overall certainly has that capability. I'm just not
the guy to start throwing around the all time great
phrase until you win multiple championships.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I think that's fair. They do.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Look, it feels it feels like they're at a different
level defensively than the rest of the league, which I
think is something that speaks volumes and is why these
conversations are at least it's fair to at least start them,
because even they haven't won even one title yet. They
certainly haven't won too, but they it feels obvious on
the eye test that they are a gap from the
second best event in the NBA, which feels like something
(34:12):
we didn't haven't talked about much either than like, you know,
four Pistons, you know, which is not to say that
they're as good as good as that team defensively, but
that gap is why I think these conversations are at least,
you know, reasonable at.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
This point, and to your point, like you want to
know why the Pistons are remembered that way. Not only
did they beat Shaq and the Shaq and Kobe Lakers,
but they made an additional run to the NBA finals
and what I can't remember exactly what it was, but
they were in the Eastern Conference finals something like five
or six years in a row. Like they were perennially
perennially playing.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
In May and June.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And so they they resonated with us because of that.
And that's the thing, like like, guys, like all you
have to do is make yourself irrefutable, like you, I
know it sounds simple to say, but like, like do
do it. And at a certain point, no one can
say anything. Like it's like the Steph Curry thing. Everyone's
all Stephan only one because of KD and injuries. Oh
(35:04):
Steph only one with KD and injuries. What happened?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Then?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
He won without KADI and without as much talent as
the team he was going against it. And now Steph is
stamped forever. If you look at Steph and you don't
see why he's good, I can't even talk basketball with
you because it's unassailable what he did. This is the
beginning of a potentially long journey that all they have
to do is keep knocking teams out, and they're gonna
have that reputation of being one of the all time
(35:28):
great teams on both ends of the floor for sure.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Another question about okay, see why do you think this
is okay?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
This is a super chat question, by the way, thank
you for the super chat.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Why do you think this OKC team is so disliked
when it feels like they're similar to sort of an
early two thousands era basketball team. Basketball fans have said
they wanted defense and driving the ball. They got it,
and yet somehow they're still disliked.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Thoughts a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I think that when a team is kicking everyone's ass,
they tend to become universally disliked. That Jackson, I'm sure
you could speak to that as a fan of the
Celtics over the years and as someone who uh you know,
worked with Draymond and covered the Warriors very closely. Like
no one likes getting their ass kicked. I think I
think everyone. I think everyone sees the writing on the
(36:12):
wall a little bit, which is like Oklahoma City will
probably go into next season, is like a pretty substantial favorite,
like probably somewhere in the like like if you had,
If I would, I would guess that okayse would enter
next season at like almost even odds to win the title.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I would too, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Like and so like they're they're the best team that
we've seen in terms of like overall UH two way
talent to the since the team that Kevin Durant and
Steph Curry were on in that Warriors uh stretch there
in the late twenty tens. But they don't have some
of the fragility that we saw with Boston, where it's like, well,
(36:54):
Chris tops porzingis can't stay healthy and Al Horford is
getting very old, and like Jada or excuse me, like
Jalen Willie or excuse me, Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum
are both kind of like rickety stars that have the
potential to like spiral in big moments, like Shay is
just Shay is just a more reliably great star at
(37:14):
the head of it. And they're younger and healthier and
more athletic, and so it's easier to see more sustained success.
And I think everyone is kind of experiencing a similar
feel to what the Warriors looked like when Kevin Durant
was on the team where it's like, how the hell
are we gonna beat these guys, you know? And then
I think the second part of it is like, like
(37:35):
you and I were complaining about this before the show,
Like Shay is so amazing, and so is Jalen Brunson.
The two of them are so unbelievably good, and like
I I like, for some reason, when I see Shay
go down in a pivotal third quarter run in unleash
the low gather on Nikil Alexander Walker and just drive
(37:57):
through his chest and then throw up a left handed
flow that like literally no basketball player would ever take
under any circumstances unless they were expressly looking for a foul,
and he banks it in and the crowd goes crazy,
and it's like this big moment, right Like it feels
like Shaye driving the nail in the coffin of Game two,
and it just kind of is like, oh, but it's
(38:18):
a non basketball play. That's gross, And so I think
there's a certain amount of that that's kind of eating
at people a little bit. But I would I would
even say that's hails in comparison to the simple fact
that everyone's just scared shitless that these guys are going
to be impossible to beat for the next couple of years.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah, I think that is so on point. And I
think the fact that it feels like there's no other
real contender, combined with the fact that they have perfectly
seemingly executed this like draft your stars and draft your
role players thing, they kind of have done it the
way that people want teams to do it, and yet
nobody likes it because they're so Unstoppable's next question, j
(38:58):
dev has looked a lot better this series and he
did last series. What do you think he has done differently?
Has he done something differently or is it sort of
just making more shots?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
It's the one. It's it's the defensive scheme. Both Shay
and Shaye and Jadubb looked bad in the second round
except for crunch time because of the fact that the
two of them kept trying to force it through Denver's
defense and take stupid ass shots Like Minnesota is letting
these dudes play one on one and both of them
look way more comfortable as a result, and like that
(39:28):
that really, to me is like exactly what makes Minnesota's
game plan so dumb? You're the entire purpose of a
defensive game plan in the postseason is to make your
opponent uncomfortable, and they have allowed Shae and JDub and
even Chet to get comfortable because they're playing in a
setting that kind of fits their skill set perfectly.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, we'll do a couple more questions then go over
to playback. Uh hey, Jason, Minnesota seem to spark a
comeback with Rudy and Julius off the floor in the
fourth quarter. Is that type of lineup specifically or just
in general small ball something you think they can be
successful with going.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Forward A couple things. I think that they need to
go without Gobert. Anyway, I think that was pretty clear
you don't bail on Julius for the series. I thought
it made sense to bail on him tonight because he
was just out of it. But Julius, they're not winning
this series unless Julius plays better. But like I also
thought there was like a classic example of like a
little bit of a relenting of the intensity from Oklahoma City.
I thought Aunt got like two or three kind of
(40:24):
questionable whistles on plays where he didn't really get foul,
but he was just driving through four bodies and it's
almost like a sympathy whistle.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
There was like just a level of.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Like kind of downhill desperation verve that Minnesota was playing
with that Oklahoma City wasn't matching, Like I thought, most
of what happened at the end of the game was
like kind of classic fake comeback stuff really quickly. Just
so you guys have some numbers. These zone possessions. Oklahoma
City fifteen possessions of zone one point one to three
points per possession. So they were successful against it all
(40:55):
night long. Minnesota's twenty one unguarded catch and shoots in
this game, and they only got zero point eighty six
points per shot, And like, really that's kind of the
main thing. And like if there's one defense to throw
at ant for him just trying to ram his head
through a brick wall tonight, it's that his teammates are
all shit in the bed because like there's a certain
(41:16):
amount of like none of them can score in these
advantages that Oklahoma City is gift wrapping for them. And
at a certain point, I think he's just looking at
the situation and going, I, well, never mind, I'll do
it myself, you know.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, Nikilo finally had hit some shots but when Julius
Randall and Nasried are combined too for a million, it's like,
what are you supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Exactly exactly? Uh?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Last question before playback, Hi, Jason, big fan of the show.
What do you think has caused so many stars getting
injured in this playoffs? And is there anything to do
to prevent it?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yes, there is something to do to prevent it. I
think that this has been pretty clear for a half
decade now, which is that the hunt for additional possessions
through higher paced play, the drive and spacing the four
out one in relocating spacing with like lots of super
hard closeouts and covering ground in transition. There's no doubt
(42:09):
that the style of play is infinitely harder on the
lower body than what the eighties and nineties look like
or even the two thousands, right, And so I think
that I think that the NBA has a problem that
they have to look to address, which is that in
multiple consecutive postseasons now we're not just seeing like a
(42:30):
couple stars get hurt, like it's happening to three, four,
five guys in every single postseason run torn achilles, torn acls,
foot injuries, like there's just a clear sign that the
modern NBA game is more taxing on the body than
it used to be. I think that there's a very
(42:52):
simple solution, which is to shorten the season. You cut
it down to sixty six games, play at most three
times a week. Every team has a guaranteed two day
off stretch every single week. You space out the games
in a way that one benefits you financially in the
(43:13):
form of stars participating more frequently in higher urgency. Because
if you shrink the season by twenty percent, you increase
the value of each regular season win by twenty percent.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Right, that's just a theoretical.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Just twenty percent increase in urgency every single night, and
then I think you give the body a chance to
recover from what is a grueling game. And then I
would do it in the postseason as well. Like there's
just so many games, it's so easy to protract it.
There's no reason at all why you can't play every
(43:46):
third night in the postseason. Especially if you shorten the season.
You could start playing in October, play sixty six games,
never have a back to back, have those that bit
of time off, and then you could be in a
situation the postseason where guys aren't being forced to play
every other night and traveling from city to city. I
(44:06):
think the NBA has got to have a real honest
conversation with themselves about whether or not the money is
worth the wear and tearor of putting on these guys' bodies,
because I think the modern game is just too much
for them. All right, guys, that is all we have
for tonight has always been sincerely appreciate you guys for
supporting us and supporting the show. Playback dot tv, slash
Hoops Tonight is where we're going for the after show.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I'll see you guys there. What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (44:27):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
Oops tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
The volume
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(02:03):
at the volume heavy Thursday. Everybody, hope all you guys
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Speaker 1 (02:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Game two of the Western Conference Finals looked very similar
to Game one, except for we didn't get the rough
shooting performance from shake Yelgas Alexander in the first quarter.
We got a few different defensive looks from Minnesota, neither
of which I thought were the answer, and once again
down the stretch, Oklahoma City pulls away as Minnesota just
gets frustrated and kind of lets go of the rope,
(02:29):
and we are headed back to Minnesota with the Thunder
up two to zero. In this series, we're gonna be
breaking down this game from the perspective of both teams.
I'm gonna talk about some potential adjustments. We're gonna be
talking a lot about SGA today and some of the
specific ways that he's super effective as an on ball
score our Microsoft segment today, we're gonna be covering Shay's
MVP case, lots of Shaye talk today, and then at
(02:51):
the tail end of the show, we'll take ten to
fifteen minutes of mailbag questions from the chat. When we
finish up here tonight, we're gonna be heading over to
Playback for our usual after show. That's where we take
callers we watched film. We have a much more informal,
just have fun talking hoops type of experience. I've been
having a blast with those shows. I hope you guys
will come over and hang out with us again. That's
(03:12):
playback dot tv slash Hoops Tonight right after we get
done here. On YouTube, you guys know the jope before
we get started. Subscribe to with Hoops and Ight YouTube channels.
You don't miss any more of our videos. Follow me
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Jackson is doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.
(03:36):
Make sure you guys follow us there, and then, like
we mentioned earlier, keep dropping those mail bag questions in
the YouTube comments so we can get to them at
the tail end of the show from the chat. All right,
let's talk some basketball. So I thought tonight it was
a classic example of how watching the box score is
not the answer to who is playing better in any
(03:56):
particular game. We had a question right after game where
someone asked me why I wasn't more critical of Anthony
Edwards scoring zero points in the fourth quarter. And one
of the things we've talked a lot about since that
is the reality in the massive difference between the way
these two teams are guarding each other, and it was
(04:17):
way more aggressive tonight. He had thirty two, nine and
six and he was a minus twenty two, and I
didn't think he played particularly well. The reality is is
these two teams are guarding each other in diametrically opposed fashion.
The Thunder are packing the paint, conceding corner kickouts, literally
(04:40):
begging frant and Julius to try to force it into
traffic so that they can be inefficient and turn the
basketball over on the other end of the floor. In
the other part of it, too, is they're just trying
to force Minnesota their role players to take mildly contested
corner threes in high pressure situations on the other end
(05:01):
of the floor, With exception of a few sequences of
zone which we'll talk about in a little bit, which
a thunderscored fine against, and then kind of a haphazard
aggressive double team approach against Shae in the fourth quarter,
a lot of just staying home on shooters and just
pressing up on Shae, playing one on one against him,
(05:22):
defending ball screens two on two. The job for Shae
in this series is to score the basketball. So what
I'm looking for from Shaye is scoring volume and efficiency.
The job for Aunt and Julius in this series is
to get the ball out to their shooters on time,
(05:44):
on target in the shooting pocket so that they can
either make the defense pay knocking down the shot or
drive a close out and get the defense into rotation
where they can attack from there. And Ant came out tonight,
took eighteen shots in the first half, and like, there
was some good looks in there, some good three point
shots off the catch that I liked, some that he made,
(06:05):
some that he missed, driving layup off of a Julius
Randall post up where he was one pass away where
he finished over the top of chet driving to close out.
There are shots in there that I liked. There are
some even some one There are even some on ball
one on one shots that I liked in there, But
they were like eight or nine of those shots that
I thought were bad shots early clock contested pull up
(06:26):
threes against a pick and roll coverage, or trying to
knife through six different bodies in the paint, including his
own teammates, to try to finish in traffic. I thought
he forced the issue tonight and Minnesota couldn't score. They
didn't score over twenty five points in a quarter until
the fourth quarter. On the other end of the floor,
(06:47):
Shay came out and consistently and efficiently worked out of
ISOs and ball screens to make the Wolves pay for
letting them play one on one and letting them play.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Two on too.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So the question is how is it that Shaye continues
to be so successful against the defense as good as Minnesota's,
And it goes deeper than the game plan. Part of
it is the game plan, but by the way, Shaye
has torched Minnesota all year long. The first half of
Game one was the exception. He has torched these guys.
Part of it is the game plan. Chris Finch historically
(07:24):
has trusted his one on one defenders and wanted to
stay home off the ball. That is very much a
Chris Finch ideology. It's like the exact opposite of what
you see from OKC or Memphis or some of these
younger Ford aggressive pack to paint types of types of teams.
But it goes deeper than that. Minnesota has elite one
(07:44):
on one defenders. Jaden McDaniels is theoretically the perfect type
of player to guard a guy like Shae, a guy
that he can't overpower, a guy that has. He's got
longer arms, is taller, who moves his feet well, great
at contesting pull up jump shots. We even saw him
block Shay pull up three tonight like He's theoretically the
(08:07):
perfect type of player to guard it, but shake. Gilles
Alexander was the best high volume ISO player in the
league this year for a reason. Out of the five
players to run at least three hundred ISOs to take
at least three hundred shot attempts out ISO's his one
point one zero points per possession rate number one in
the league, and it's a simple dynamic. He is the
(08:28):
best driver of the basketball in the world, and he's
one of the highest field goal percentage pull up shooters
in the world. That's the give and take with it.
He logged two hundred and sixty five more drives than
any other player in the NBA this year, In other words,
four more per game than anyone in the NBA this year,
(08:50):
and he's one of the highest field goal percentage pull
up shooters in the world. At Out of the thirteen
players to take at least five hundred pull up jump
shots this year. Only Demarta ros In shot a higher
field goal percentage than Shay, and Shay was more efficient
because he took more threes. Shay shot forty five percent
on mid on pull up jump shots one point zero
(09:10):
six points per shot. This puts every defender, even fantastic
defenders like Jad McDaniels and a bind. You have to
overreact to the drive, but at the same time you
have to overreact to the pull up because he's so
good at both. And this is where Shay's brilliance comes
into the equation, because he's remarkably gifted at selling one
(09:30):
or the other, changing pace, selling fakes. He has a
ridiculous ability to chain together counter moves. I've never seen
a player that can get into your body and cross
over and get into your body and behind the back
and get into your body and spin and just counter
counter counter until you eventually give up that angle. And
(09:50):
when he give up, when you give up that angle,
that's when he goes downhill on you and if you
concede space. He's one of the best over the top
shooters in the league. One of the things he was
doing tonight that I found really interesting whether it was
in ball screens or in ISO situations, he's snaking the
help defender. You guys ever see this in ball screens
where like a guy will come over the top of
(10:12):
the screen and then he'll cross back over to the
direction he originally came from, and the big man will
have no idea what to do is he kind of
works back towards the middle. Shay will do that on drives.
He'll hard drive, someone will hard step over and help,
and he'll just immediately cross back over into the middle.
And now all of a sudden, the help defenders got
his body, a'll shift it out of position and he's
(10:33):
right at the front of the rim again. It's one
of the biggest reasons why I think Minnesota absolutely must
change their game plan. This whole situation gets exacerbated by
Jada McDaniel's ball pressure. I talked about this in Game one.
You guys saw it again on the last driving layup
that he had down the right side of the lane tonight,
when Jaden.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Is picking him up twenty eight feet.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
From the basket, that's just food for Shay. He's going
right around him. Every single time we did see some
shift from Finch. We saw some zone that didn't work.
We'll talk about it in a minute. Again, they tried
doubling in the fourth quarter a little bit more. I
don't think those are the answers. I'll talk about it
(11:15):
in a minute when we start talking about Minnesota's adjustments.
But the weaknesses for OKC that have been on display
this postseason is sometimes Shay will force the issue through
multiple bodies. When the defense is trying to force him
to be a passer, he'll force it sometimes. And two,
(11:35):
their catch and shoot guys can go deadly cold sometimes
in this defensive scheme, which takes away catch and shoot threes,
Let's Shay work one on one and pressures the ball,
which allows him to drive to the basket. Is literally
playing directly into Oklahoma City's hands. Every playoff series is
(11:56):
a chess match, and that chess match starts with your
base line scheme, usually a defensive scheme geared towards the matchup.
For Chris Finch and the Wolves, it was geared towards
exactly what they did in the regular season. To everybody,
it's their kind of like stock scheme that they use
right and nothing is going to change for either team
(12:17):
until you show an ability to beat that base scheme.
You want to know why we saw zone out of
Minnesota tonight. You want to know why we saw doubling
because they're grasping at straws because Shay is killing them
one on one.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You want to know why.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Okac has more or less been doing the same thing
on defense through the entire series to this point, It's
because Ant keeps trying to force his way into traffic.
Julius Randall forced his way right out of the game tonight.
They are not showing the ability to dislodge Oklahoma City
from their base scheme. Part of that is Minnesota's walked
(12:53):
into the series with a certain amount of ego thinking,
we have the best individual defenders in the league. Look
what we do to Luca, Look what we did to Lebron,
Look what we did to Austin. And you know, obviously
the dregs of the Golden State roster after Steph got hurt.
But like they went in that series thinking they were
gonna be just fine. And again, like, what did I
(13:14):
complain about in the Lakers series? What did I say consistently?
Why did Minnesota win because Lebron couldn't score, because Luca
couldn't score because Austin couldn't score when they needed to
score in the pivotal moments of the game. Shay continually
has given these dudes buckets. They can't guard him one
on one. And so here we are through two games,
(13:37):
and as we head back to Minnesota, they've got to
they've got to shift their base scheme and we'll see
what happens next. I'm gonna talk some Minnesota adjust Minnesota
adjustments in a minute. Okome a city beating the zone.
I thought it really came down to two things. Their
offensive rebounding and again, this is a problem with zone
in general. You're not matched up with individual offensive players,
and so there's a tendency to give up cuts and
(13:58):
crashes because you're just not matched up with guys and
you can give up offensive rebounds in that way. And
then Alex Cruso on his ability to score in the
middle of the floor. One of the things he'll see
against his zone, especially when you've got a chet Holmegrin
or an Isaiah Hartenstein that can be a vertical spacer
underneath the basket, the big man will not want to
(14:18):
come out to the middle of the floor. He won't
want to come out to the middle because he'll give
up that lob or that dunk. So with the top
guys being concerned with the guys on the top tracking
the three point line, corner guys the same thing, a
lot of two three zones will concede a catch there
in the middle, and Crusoe over and over again just
(14:41):
kept catching the ball in the middle of the floor
and scoring there as he was left open, and so
the zone just didn't work for Minnesota to slow down
Oklahoma City in this game. I J Dub and Chet
were both fantastic. Jet's been really effective in this series
around the rim as a score since basically the second
half of Game one, and a big part of that
(15:03):
is that same dynamic we were talking about earlier. Everything's
like in ball screens they're being defended two on two.
In the one on ones when they're offering help, they're
not like swarming. They're bringing one guy over, usually the
big in which case when he steps over, Chet's finding
opportunities as an offensive rebounder. Both Chet and JDub were
(15:24):
deadly in transition in this game. I thought that was big.
But to get fifty or to excuse me, to get
forty eight points from those two guys. That's one of
the best supporting scoring games we've seen the Thunder get
in this postseason. And then overall just Oklahoma City's defense,
which has been fantastic in this entire playoff run. They
erased Julius Randall in this game. If you guys remember,
(15:47):
I talked before the series about the specific thing that
tilted me back towards Oklahoma City. Even though my initial
gut feeling was that Minnesota had advantage in this series,
the big thing that tilted me back towards Oklahoma City
was the specific die you saw tonight, the inability to
get the ball to Julius Randall in an advantageous scoring position.
Oklahoma City went back to the exact same approach that
(16:08):
they used against Denver, which was just fronting the post,
and we saw multiple steals on plays where Julius tried
to get the arm into the back and create that
over the top passing angle. Pass comes in over the top,
but there's ball pressure, so that passes like a looping pass,
and here comes lou Dort shooting in on the back
line to get that steal. I think it was Shay
(16:31):
that got the other one coming over and swiping away
against the post front as he brackets from behind. Their
defense has been fantastic in the series. The ball pressure,
the rim contests the Shay has been causing some problems
for Ant with like late contests at the rim he
forced to miss, he got a block on a late
one where Ant got bailed out by an iffy foul call.
(16:52):
There's a there is a layered effect to this Oklahoma
City defense that is having big time impact on Minnesota.
Minnesota notes couple things. The big thing is they need
to change their defensive approach. I don't think the answer
is zoned. I don't think the answer is ball pressure.
(17:13):
I don't think the answer is double teaming. I think
the answer is you play defense the way Denver did
you have Jaden McDaniels sit in a passive defensive stance
where he's meeting Shay closer to the elbows. We saw
that when Jaden kind of gives space, he can close
ground and get a great contest on a shade pull
(17:35):
up three. Instead of pressuring Shay, he needs to be
playing off, sitting back, making Shae drive into him where
he has more time to anticipate the driving angle and
to beat him to spots, and it's more likely to
bait Shae in to pull up jump shots. Then I
do think they need to be using the Denver approach
of gapping really hard, getting into the point where you've
(17:58):
got four bodies in the ain't consistently and dare Shae
and these guys to beat you in the half court
as passers. When you double team shay out at half court,
it creates a four on three in a massive area
of space. There's so much space to work with there.
You guys have seen the Golden State Warriors annihilate teams
(18:19):
for a decade using those four on threes with that
kind of space. When you double double team quote unquote
Shae in the form of more like three four bodies
in the paint consistently, that is a situation that creates
the advantage for Oklahoma City on the perimeter. Make Shae
(18:39):
relentlessly hunt kickout reads, make these dudes knock down contested
jump shots. Now, one of the things is I did
think it was defensible, even though I do think this game,
this series was inevitably careening towards a defensive shift towards
more what I'm talking about, I did think that it
was defensible to try it again tonight. It was defensible
(19:02):
because theoretically, you kept game one close and you just
missed a ton of kickout threes. So in theory, you
go into game two, you stick with your base defensive
game plan, guys shoot better, and you have a chance
to go back back home with a one to one series,
(19:24):
and maybe you can hold that card in your back pocket.
But now through two games, it's abundantly clear that these
guys aren't going to be able to knock down enough
of those kickouts in the corner against those contests, and
so now it's at the point where now it's at
the point where you have to consider changing your defensive approach.
(19:45):
You've got to get more stops than you've been getting.
Oklahoma City since the first half of Game one, has
consistently scored at high volume. Seventy points in the second
half of Game one, fifty eight points in the first
half of game two, sixty points in the second half
of game two. They are scoring on you consistently for
(20:08):
a game and a half.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Now you have to change that scheme.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I also think it's defensible in the sense that it's
hard to win on the road, and so throwing that
like Game three is a must win now you gotta
get that one. So I like the idea of going
into game three and shifting your scheme in that game.
Or you're also getting the benefit of role players being
more comfortable feeding off of the crowd, potentially Oklahoma City's
(20:35):
role players getting less comfortable. That's where I think that could,
you know, especially with the scheme change, that could tilt
things more heavily towards Minnesota. And so I think I
think in game three there needs to be way less
ball pressure, way more of a contain and compact the paint.
Force Shay to beat you with the pass, force Oklahoma
(20:55):
City to beat you from the perimeter instead of letting
them knifeet a pieces in the middle of the lane
like they have through the first two games. Another fifty
eight points in the paint tonight for Oklahoma City. A
couple other things I talked about in game one, how
I would potentially consider leaning into Rudy Gobert more. No
more of that. I thought Rudy was bad tonight. I
(21:17):
thought he was bad on defense, and I thought he
was nightmarishly bad on offense. He got thirty minutes tonight,
I didn't think he was effective at any point. So
I'm kind of over the Rudy Gobert experience in this series.
The complete inability to finish anything in the pocket and
then on defense like him not contesting Isaiah Hartenstein's floater
(21:38):
down low, even though we got clear at film from
the Denver series that that's how you bother him. The okay,
you're on a switch against Shay Gills Alexander, or handling
Shay in a drop coverage, and you're just fouling him
every time. He's not providing any real resistance. I don't
see the Rudy value in this series anymore. So we
talked about that as being a potential option to explore
(22:00):
in game one or after game one. You explored it
more tonight. No more need to explore that territory. I
don't think this is a series where Rudy can be
very effective. Julius rand last to change his approach. I
thought he tried to force his way through a slump today.
We talked a lot about this example in the last
few weeks in our playback sessions, but the idea of
(22:23):
like how do you get yourself out of a slump
when the shots aren't falling. There's option one, which is
take every shot you can get your eyes on. We
saw a lot of that with like Dante DiVincenzo in
Game one, for example, and in that sort of situation,
you're most likely just going to compound the problem because
you're probably going to be taking a bunch of iffy
(22:45):
shots that are low percentage under any circumstances, especially when
you're not in a good rhythm. The second method is
find ways to generate easy shots and derive confidence from
the dirty work. Defend your ass off, rebound your ass off,
control everything that's in your control, which will help boost
(23:08):
your confidence to where you feel better on the offensive end,
and then on the offensive end, fight for easy looks.
Transition pushes, offensive rebound crashes, anything with the real advantage,
whether it's a post mismatch or it's say, you know,
a semi transition opportunity where you can drop your shoulder.
There's a very brief stretch in the third quarter where
(23:29):
Julius like really started to force the issue physically. He
got like a deep transition seal for a bucket, another
like deep post up, and then a couple of like
semi transition pushes and I'm like, hey, like this is better.
But there was this huge stretch of the game where
he was already one for five, one for six, and
he's just taking every semi contested three he can get
his hands on, and like, that's just not gonna get
(23:51):
you out of that sort of slump. Again, there's this
is where I'll move to the last adjustment here and
Julius have to be looking to be aggressive with an advantage,
not at the beginning of the possession. At the beginning
of the possession, they're attacking a loaded up Oklahoma City
defense that is praying to God that they will do
something stupid like try to score through all of them
(24:13):
in the paint. The on ball guy, whether it's Julius
or its Aunt, or it's one of the role players,
needs to be looking in By the way, one of
the things they're doing with the other role players is
they're not overreacting as much on those pushes or anything
in the middle of the floor. But if Julius and Aunt,
whether it's through the post or it's through a pick
and roll or an ISO or whatever it is, get
the ball to the middle, get it sprayed out from there,
(24:37):
drive and kickspacing, get out of the middle of the
floor somewhere where you can get back in a position
to catch that guy will either catch and shoot and
make a wide open catch and shoot three or against
a close out will drive and now you have an
opportunity to attack when the defense is shifted and sprinting
at you. That is where Aunt and Julius can look
(24:58):
to be aggressive and score. This is not an on
ball scoring series for Ant and Julius. It is an
on ball playmaking and off ball scoring series for Aunt
and Julius. They have to make that adjustment or they
are never going to crack Okac out of their base scheme.
All right, before we get to our mail back questions,
let's do our course correction segment on Shay's MVP. Welcome
(25:20):
to course Correction, brought to you by Microsoft. Just like
star players and teams navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers
today are under immense pressure to get things right. They
must rise to the occasion, turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft
empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management,
and trustworthy responsible AI. And when you're in the NBA,
(25:41):
you have your own hurdles to face. In this segment,
we will highlight the player every week that has risen
to the occasion when his team needed him. Whatever challenge
you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say,
bring it on. This week's Player of the Week is
the twenty twenty five MVP of the NBA, Shay Gilders.
Alexander Shay had a remarkable statistical season thirty three points
(26:03):
per game, five rebounds, six assists, one point seven steals
in a block, sixty four percent true shooting. That's somehow
under selling how important he was to the Oklahoma City offense.
Per cleaning the glass. The Thunder offense was nine point
one points per one hundred possessions better when he was
on the floor versus off. The strength of the Thunder
(26:27):
is their defense. We all know that, and their defense
is elite down the roster, regardless of who was on
the floor, including Shay. But they could not score with
Shay off the floor this year. They had a one
to fourteen point eight offensive rating with him off. For perspective,
that's a lower offensive rating than the Houston Rockets log
this year in the regular season, but they had a
(26:48):
one twenty four offensive rating when Shay was on the floor,
which is three points better than the number one offense
in the league, the Cleveland Cavaliers. We were talking about
Nicole Yokich having the greatest offensive season of all time.
They had a won twenty six offensive rating with Yokic
on the floor. Shaye was producing with that Thunder offense
at nearly the same level. In other words, the Thunder
(27:12):
offense went from mediocre to elite top tier production when
Shae was on the floor. And this goes beyond the
metrics to the eye test. There were so many times
this year where Shaye's entire supporting cast lost their confidence
and he had no choice but to completely take control
of the game. He was also one of the most
reliably great scores in the league this year. Shay had
(27:36):
just nine games this season where he shot below forty
percent from the field. For comparison, a guy like Ant
twenty five such games. Oh well, Aunt takes a lot
of threes. Okay, how about Brunson. Brunson's a guy who
lives in the mid range. Twenty one times this year
Brunson shot below forty percent from the field. How is
(27:58):
it that Shay is so reliably good on the defensive
end of the four well for starters, two thirds of
his shot attempts come within seventeen feet, so there's very
little variants because there's very little long range jump shooting.
And then on those short range jumpers, which would be
the one thing in there that has a lot of variants,
(28:19):
he shot fifty four percent on jumpers inside of seventeen feet,
so he was deadly on the one thing in his
two thirds of his game that occurs within seventeen feet
of the rim that would theoretically come with some variants.
He also got to the rim an absurd amount. We
talked about his drives earlier, five hundred and fifty attempts
(28:39):
at the rim this season, according to Synergy. For Perspective, NICOLEA.
Jokic logged five hundred and fifty three attempts at the
rim this season, only three more than Shay did. I
thought he was very much deserving of the MVP. I'm
a big Jokic fan, and I do think Jokic is
a better basketball player than Shay is.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That's not the purpose of this award.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
It's a regular season award, and Shae was the best
regular season player in the league this year for by
far the best team in the league. They finished eighteen
games ahead of Denver. I also thought Jokics let go
the rope defensively in the second half of the season,
and that played directly into the problems they had down
the stretches. They slid down the standings and had to
(29:23):
fire their coach. I heard a lot of talk about
Jokic having the greatest offensive season ever and us looking
back this year and thinking that the MVP decision we
made was a mistake. I don't see it that way
at all. I think SGA's MVP case is beyond well deserved.
I don't think any player in the league had a
reasonable case to be over him. So congratulations to Shay.
(29:48):
Obviously you just won the MVP. But at this point
I would be stunned if the Thunder didn't win the title.
I think they match up extremely well with both Indiana
in New York, two teams that rely on guard play
and speed, and Oklahoma City has just got better speed
and better guard play while also being better defensively on
(30:08):
the back line than both of those teams. I think
they would dispatch if both the Knicks and the Pacers
in five games or less, and at this point you're
up two to zero in the Western Conference Finals in Minnesota.
Hasn't even come remotely close to dislodging you from your
base game plan? Or does that tell me? That tells
(30:28):
me this time a month from now, the Thunder are
going to be hoisting the trophy and Shay won't just
be an MVP, He'll be a finals MVP. And if
you start to look at the Thunder and the assets
they have at their disposal, and the age of their roster,
and the fact that they still have so much room
to improve, it might not even be the first one
(30:49):
he gets. That's it for this week's course correction. Remember
Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps, making
form decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward.
Microsoft is your trusted partner. You can navigate your journey
with confidence, finding innovative solutions, and reaching new possibilities. Visit
microsoft dot com slash challengers to learn more. All right,
(31:11):
Jackson's gonna come on stage and we're gonna take ten
to fifteen minutes of questions.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
First question, probably, and this person said, probably a little
bit early to ask.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
This kind of question.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
But now that they're continuing to dominate, is this Okac
defense one of the best ever? And if they win
the title, will they be one of the best teams ever?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
So you're never gonna hear me talk about a basketball
team being one of the best basketball teams ever until
they win multiple championships. I'm consistent about this stuff. Here's
a really simple way to put it. Boston had a
similar year last year where they ran through the entire league,
won sixty four games, kicked everyone's ass in the postseason,
never even felt remotely threatened like Oklahoma City showed some
(31:49):
flaws against Denver and looked like threatened at one point
in time. I I told Boston fans at the time,
I didn't see them as an all time great team
because you kind of have to earn that, right with
me and guys like, I'm pretty consistent about this stuff,
Like it was the same thing with Jokic back in
the day. Like I think that there's a conversation you
(32:10):
can have about who's the best at something, But I'm
usually the guy that like wants to see you accomplish
the ultimate goal first. I don't like theoretical success. I
like real life success. And so for me, like, I
think the Thunder have every possibility to be an all
time great team that wins multiple championships and when they do,
(32:30):
if they do, we will acknowledge them as as such.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
But I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I don't like to jump the gun there as far
as the defense goes, and again, we got to see
see it just survive like multiple seasons. So like say say,
for instance, you beat Denver again next year, different Denver team,
or you beat like a Spurs team that has Yannis
and Wemby and Dearren Fox. Like, the idea of winning
multiple championships involves two separate seasons where you beat four
(32:58):
different teams in four differ rounds that are very different
types of teams. And so the defense side of it,
I need to see that defense have that success through
multiple playoff runs. That said, I absolutely see that upside
and I thought it manifested in them that Denver offense
was unbelievable all year and for extended stretches. Not only
(33:20):
did they quote unquote dislodge or frustrate Denver's offense, they
played Jokic into probably the worst three game stretch I've
ever seen in play in game two three and four,
so or was it three four and five?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I can't even remember. I think it was two three
and four.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
But like, yeah, like the defense certainly has that capability,
The team overall certainly has that capability. I'm just not
the guy to start throwing around the all time great
phrase until you win multiple championships.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I think that's fair. They do.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Look, it feels it feels like they're at a different
level defensively than the rest of the league, which I
think is something that speaks volumes and is why these
conversations are at least it's fair to at least start them,
because even they haven't won even one title yet. They
certainly haven't won too, but they it feels obvious on
the eye test that they are a gap from the
second best event in the NBA, which feels like something
(34:12):
we didn't haven't talked about much either than like, you know,
four Pistons, you know, which is not to say that
they're as good as good as that team defensively, but
that gap is why I think these conversations are at least,
you know, reasonable at.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
This point, and to your point, like you want to
know why the Pistons are remembered that way. Not only
did they beat Shaq and the Shaq and Kobe Lakers,
but they made an additional run to the NBA finals
and what I can't remember exactly what it was, but
they were in the Eastern Conference finals something like five
or six years in a row. Like they were perennially
perennially playing.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
In May and June.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And so they they resonated with us because of that.
And that's the thing, like like, guys, like all you
have to do is make yourself irrefutable, like you, I
know it sounds simple to say, but like, like do
do it. And at a certain point, no one can
say anything. Like it's like the Steph Curry thing. Everyone's
all Stephan only one because of KD and injuries. Oh
(35:04):
Steph only one with KD and injuries. What happened?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Then?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
He won without KADI and without as much talent as
the team he was going against it. And now Steph is
stamped forever. If you look at Steph and you don't
see why he's good, I can't even talk basketball with
you because it's unassailable what he did. This is the
beginning of a potentially long journey that all they have
to do is keep knocking teams out, and they're gonna
have that reputation of being one of the all time
(35:28):
great teams on both ends of the floor for sure.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Another question about okay, see why do you think this
is okay?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
This is a super chat question, by the way, thank
you for the super chat.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Why do you think this OKC team is so disliked
when it feels like they're similar to sort of an
early two thousands era basketball team. Basketball fans have said
they wanted defense and driving the ball. They got it,
and yet somehow they're still disliked.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Thoughts a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I think that when a team is kicking everyone's ass,
they tend to become universally disliked. That Jackson, I'm sure
you could speak to that as a fan of the
Celtics over the years and as someone who uh you know,
worked with Draymond and covered the Warriors very closely. Like
no one likes getting their ass kicked. I think I
think everyone. I think everyone sees the writing on the
(36:12):
wall a little bit, which is like Oklahoma City will
probably go into next season, is like a pretty substantial favorite,
like probably somewhere in the like like if you had,
If I would, I would guess that okayse would enter
next season at like almost even odds to win the title.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I would too, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Like and so like they're they're the best team that
we've seen in terms of like overall UH two way
talent to the since the team that Kevin Durant and
Steph Curry were on in that Warriors uh stretch there
in the late twenty tens. But they don't have some
of the fragility that we saw with Boston, where it's like, well,
(36:54):
Chris tops porzingis can't stay healthy and Al Horford is
getting very old, and like Jada or excuse me, like
Jalen Willie or excuse me, Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum
are both kind of like rickety stars that have the
potential to like spiral in big moments, like Shay is
just Shay is just a more reliably great star at
(37:14):
the head of it. And they're younger and healthier and
more athletic, and so it's easier to see more sustained success.
And I think everyone is kind of experiencing a similar
feel to what the Warriors looked like when Kevin Durant
was on the team where it's like, how the hell
are we gonna beat these guys, you know? And then
I think the second part of it is like, like
(37:35):
you and I were complaining about this before the show,
Like Shay is so amazing, and so is Jalen Brunson.
The two of them are so unbelievably good, and like
I I like, for some reason, when I see Shay
go down in a pivotal third quarter run in unleash
the low gather on Nikil Alexander Walker and just drive
(37:57):
through his chest and then throw up a left handed
flow that like literally no basketball player would ever take
under any circumstances unless they were expressly looking for a foul,
and he banks it in and the crowd goes crazy,
and it's like this big moment, right Like it feels
like Shaye driving the nail in the coffin of Game two,
and it just kind of is like, oh, but it's
(38:18):
a non basketball play. That's gross, And so I think
there's a certain amount of that that's kind of eating
at people a little bit. But I would I would
even say that's hails in comparison to the simple fact
that everyone's just scared shitless that these guys are going
to be impossible to beat for the next couple of years.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah, I think that is so on point. And I
think the fact that it feels like there's no other
real contender, combined with the fact that they have perfectly
seemingly executed this like draft your stars and draft your
role players thing, they kind of have done it the
way that people want teams to do it, and yet
nobody likes it because they're so Unstoppable's next question, j
(38:58):
dev has looked a lot better this series and he
did last series. What do you think he has done differently?
Has he done something differently or is it sort of
just making more shots?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
It's the one. It's it's the defensive scheme. Both Shay
and Shaye and Jadubb looked bad in the second round
except for crunch time because of the fact that the
two of them kept trying to force it through Denver's
defense and take stupid ass shots Like Minnesota is letting
these dudes play one on one and both of them
look way more comfortable as a result, and like that
(39:28):
that really, to me is like exactly what makes Minnesota's
game plan so dumb? You're the entire purpose of a
defensive game plan in the postseason is to make your
opponent uncomfortable, and they have allowed Shae and JDub and
even Chet to get comfortable because they're playing in a
setting that kind of fits their skill set perfectly.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, we'll do a couple more questions then go over
to playback. Uh hey, Jason, Minnesota seem to spark a
comeback with Rudy and Julius off the floor in the
fourth quarter. Is that type of lineup specifically or just
in general small ball something you think they can be
successful with going.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Forward A couple things. I think that they need to
go without Gobert. Anyway, I think that was pretty clear
you don't bail on Julius for the series. I thought
it made sense to bail on him tonight because he
was just out of it. But Julius, they're not winning
this series unless Julius plays better. But like I also
thought there was like a classic example of like a
little bit of a relenting of the intensity from Oklahoma City.
I thought Aunt got like two or three kind of
(40:24):
questionable whistles on plays where he didn't really get foul,
but he was just driving through four bodies and it's
almost like a sympathy whistle.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
There was like just a level of.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Like kind of downhill desperation verve that Minnesota was playing
with that Oklahoma City wasn't matching, Like I thought, most
of what happened at the end of the game was
like kind of classic fake comeback stuff really quickly. Just
so you guys have some numbers. These zone possessions. Oklahoma
City fifteen possessions of zone one point one to three
points per possession. So they were successful against it all
(40:55):
night long. Minnesota's twenty one unguarded catch and shoots in
this game, and they only got zero point eighty six
points per shot, And like, really that's kind of the
main thing. And like if there's one defense to throw
at ant for him just trying to ram his head
through a brick wall tonight, it's that his teammates are
all shit in the bed because like there's a certain
(41:16):
amount of like none of them can score in these
advantages that Oklahoma City is gift wrapping for them. And
at a certain point, I think he's just looking at
the situation and going, I, well, never mind, I'll do
it myself, you know.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, Nikilo finally had hit some shots but when Julius
Randall and Nasried are combined too for a million, it's like,
what are you supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Exactly exactly? Uh?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Last question before playback, Hi, Jason, big fan of the show.
What do you think has caused so many stars getting
injured in this playoffs? And is there anything to do
to prevent it?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yes, there is something to do to prevent it. I
think that this has been pretty clear for a half
decade now, which is that the hunt for additional possessions
through higher paced play, the drive and spacing the four
out one in relocating spacing with like lots of super
hard closeouts and covering ground in transition. There's no doubt
(42:09):
that the style of play is infinitely harder on the
lower body than what the eighties and nineties look like
or even the two thousands, right, And so I think
that I think that the NBA has a problem that
they have to look to address, which is that in
multiple consecutive postseasons now we're not just seeing like a
(42:30):
couple stars get hurt, like it's happening to three, four,
five guys in every single postseason run torn achilles, torn acls,
foot injuries, like there's just a clear sign that the
modern NBA game is more taxing on the body than
it used to be. I think that there's a very
(42:52):
simple solution, which is to shorten the season. You cut
it down to sixty six games, play at most three
times a week. Every team has a guaranteed two day
off stretch every single week. You space out the games
in a way that one benefits you financially in the
(43:13):
form of stars participating more frequently in higher urgency. Because
if you shrink the season by twenty percent, you increase
the value of each regular season win by twenty percent.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Right, that's just a theoretical.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Just twenty percent increase in urgency every single night, and
then I think you give the body a chance to
recover from what is a grueling game. And then I
would do it in the postseason as well. Like there's
just so many games, it's so easy to protract it.
There's no reason at all why you can't play every
(43:46):
third night in the postseason. Especially if you shorten the season.
You could start playing in October, play sixty six games,
never have a back to back, have those that bit
of time off, and then you could be in a
situation the postseason where guys aren't being forced to play
every other night and traveling from city to city. I
(44:06):
think the NBA has got to have a real honest
conversation with themselves about whether or not the money is
worth the wear and tearor of putting on these guys' bodies,
because I think the modern game is just too much
for them. All right, guys, that is all we have
for tonight has always been sincerely appreciate you guys for
supporting us and supporting the show. Playback dot tv, slash
Hoops Tonight is where we're going for the after show.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I'll see you guys there. What's up guys?
Speaker 2 (44:27):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
Oops tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
The volume
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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