Jason reacts live after the Oklahoma City Thunder come up with a clutch win over the Denver Nuggets in Game 4 to tie the series at 2-2. He discusses She Gilgeous-Alexander and Jalen Williams having a strong second half to outlast Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. Follow the show on Playback for future “Aftershow” content: https://www.playback.tv/hoopstonight
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see dkang dot co slash audio. All right, welcome to
(02:32):
hips tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Sunday, everybody. Hope
all you guys are having a great weekend. Schedule is
a little weird today because I'm going with calling Coward
later tonight, so we are not covering pacers Calves in
today's show. We're gonna be covering that tomorrow mornings. Keep
an eye on the feed for that. In today's show,
we're just hitting Denver versus OKC. I viewed this game
(02:52):
and the game later this evening as games where whoever
wins is most likely going to win the series. The
Thunder could either tie it, take it back to OKC
for a best of three with all the momentum, especially
after having basically choked away two of the games, and
be in a commanding position to win. Or Denver could
go up three to one and put themselves in a
position where it's extremely difficult to lose three games in
(03:14):
a row, and same thing goes for Calves Pacers. Calves
get a win tonight, it's two to two, going back
to Cleveland, totally different series. Pacers get a win Tonight's
three to one, feels like they're in control. And round
one of these two big games today goes to the
Oklahoma City thunder down eight in the early fourth quarter
off of a Peyton Watson hook shot and they just
(03:35):
methodically walk down the Denver Nuggets to get a huge
win to save their season and send them back to
oklahom City. You guys are the Joe before we get started.
Subscribe to the Hoops and I YouTube channels. You don't
miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter
at underscore JSNLTS. You guys don't miss sho announcements. Don't
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on or Hoops Tonight. It's also super helpful if we
leave a rating and a review on that front. Jackson's
(03:56):
doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
make sure you guys follow us there more content throughout
the season, and then keep dropping mailbag questions into the
YouTube comments. Since we only have one game today, we'll
probably do a solid fifteen minutes or so of questions
from the chat at the tail end of the show,
So make sure you guys get your questions in there.
And then when we finish up here today, we will
be going over to watch playback for our typical after show.
(04:19):
It's more informal. We take callers, we watch some film,
we'll have some fun over there. Probably a little shorter
because I gotta be ready for Collins. We'll probably only
go for about a half hour today, but head over
to Playback's playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight when we
are done. You can also find that link in the
description of this video. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So this was a weird game in the sense that
(04:39):
with Denver playing as much zone as they did, both
Shay and j Dubb had really rough games, taking bad
shots against the zone, forcing things early. The two of
them I thought were pretty awful on offense throughout this game.
Both of them made defensive plays at various points in
the game, but I thought both of them really struggled
against the zone. And so what I want to talk
(05:00):
about here for a few minutes is specifically how Oklahoma
City broke the zone, because that was basically how they
won this game. In the late third quarter, they started
to hit some of their catch and shoot threes against
the zone. You could see that rhythm build and then
suddenly they were a runaway freight train. In that fourth quarter,
ended up scoring twenty nine points, their most productive offensive
(05:21):
quarter of this particular game. And really, what a two
three zone is designed to do is to break your rhythm.
We talked about this concept after the Calves Pacers game,
if you guys remember, because the Calves utilized a three
two zone in that series, and three to two zone
does a very good job of guarding the three point line.
Has some vulnerabilities on the back line simply because there
(05:43):
are two players that are responsible for both the paint
and the corners and in many cases also coming up
a little bit to the elbows. And so with that
being the case, there's just not as much manpower accommodating
the back line with the two three zone fundamentally different.
You've got a guy who's just pretty much sitting back
there in Nikola Jokic, and the four guys around them
(06:03):
are you know, syncing in and jutting back out, but
they're they're in a position where four guys are covering
all that space on the three point line, and so
there are open threes that are available against the zone.
But one of the things that can be a problem
against the zone is when you just start taking the
first decent looking three that you get your eyes on,
and what happens there is it will disrupt the rhythm
(06:25):
of your offense, and all of a sudden, your possessions
are quick and they don't really have any flow to them,
and a missed three can be kind of disheartening as
you head back down the other way. And I thought
Ja Billis did an awesome job kind of breaking this
down on the broadcast. But one of the things that
the Thunder started to do a much better job of
in the late third quarter was just getting some natural
(06:46):
rhythm within their two three zone attack, so essentially getting
the ball from side to side. They would like screen
the top, swing screen the top, drive into the gap,
swing to the wing, then like backscreen for somebody, swing
swing back to the opposite side of the floor. The
ball was popping around and they were able to generate
some natural rhythm from a zone possession that is typically
(07:09):
not there the way you would see it in a
man possession, and a man possession, you run the same
actions you've been running all season. It's the same reads
that you've been seeing all season. There are only three
or four different types of coverages that you're gonna see,
and you kind of know what to expect in all
those situations. Against a zone, it's very different. You have
to find a way to be comfortable. And this is
where I have to shout out Oklahoma City's bench guys,
because they desperately needed somebody to start knocking down shots
(07:33):
there in that second half, and Aaron Wiggins in Kason
Wallace in that late third quarter got the lid off
of the rim, and that ended up being enough for
the entire team to just kind of relax a little
bit and start making some plays. Between Kason, Aaron Wiggins,
and Alex Crusoe, those guys hit eight threes in fourteen attempts,
and every single one of them was vitally important for
(07:56):
this Thunder team. And then you know, as bad as
Jade and Shae were for the majority of this game,
they each made some big plays in that fourth quarter stretch.
J Dub had a nice ball screen against the zone
where he got into the middle of the paint and
threw a lob to Hartenstein. That was the play where
Payton Watson tried to block him and he got the
(08:17):
and one. J Dubb had a nice driving layup off
the left wing. Late Shay had a driving layup. There
was a fun sequence where the lead was at three
off of a thunder bucket. Mark Dagenal calls a time out.
Comes out of the time out with a ton of
backcourt ball pressure forces a five second out of bounds call.
(08:37):
Ball goes back to OKC. They inbound to Shae, and
Shae just goes right to his right shoulder, fade away
and finally gets one to go over his right shoulder.
That pushes the lead to five. And at that point,
like the entire psychology, the game shifted so heavily towards OKC,
it felt like it was beyond Denver's grasp. So for
as bad as those guys were offensively, they did make
(08:59):
a couple of big late in the game, and they
needed every single one of them. But I want to
highlight the defense because obviously, if you hold a team
to eight points in the opening quarter, as we had
the lowest scoring first quarter in NBA, playoff history, or
at least tied for it, but then also holding them
to eighteen in the fourth quarter after giving up that
thirty three point third quarter. And there's several different elements
(09:21):
that I want to zoom in on. First of all,
Keason Wallace, I thought did an amazing job on Jamal
Murray in the first half. In particular, he didn't get
as much of an opportunity to work on him in
the third quarter run when Denver's offense started to get going.
But in that first half, he was downright disruptive to Jamal,
especially in that first quarter as Oklahoma City built their
(09:43):
initial lead, and then all like every opportunity that he had,
he just did a little bit better job navigating screens.
I thought Jamal was able to get a little bit
more separation from Lou on some of those screening actions
than he was from Kaison. Keison's just so good at
navigating those screen situations. And then this is where I
want to turn to Isaiah Hartens, because you know, there
are many reasons why the Thunder went after Isaiah Hartenstein.
(10:04):
He kind of landed into a specific gap in their
payroll where their younger players weren't going to have to
get paid for a few years, so they could afford
to throw a bunch of money at a starting caliber
NBA center that was going to cost a lot, but
not have to worry about it handcuffing their ability to
build a roster around their stars in the future. And
the actual utility of Hartenstein was the ability to play
(10:25):
a two big look with chet Holmgren at the four.
But I bet you if you got into the year
of that front office, they would tell you it was
mostly about the Jokich matchup. And here's the thing. We're
going to talk about yokicch in a bigger picture context
because I think Jokic is kind of fumbling the bag
here a little bit. But Isaiah Hartenstein's doing a really
good job. There's a couple of key things. Did you
guys notice on some of those jab step sequences that
(10:47):
Jokich is putting on him, he's not going for the
jab step and he's sitting on that right shoulder, so
basically he's opening up his stance and conceding the drive
because he knows he has all sorts of help on
the back line, and he's just getting his left foot
almost like up where Jokic's right foot is to the
point where he's just sitting on that right shoulder, so
(11:08):
Jokic can't get the separation on his jab step to
try to get a clean look from three. He's just
driving to the left right into the teeth of the defense.
And the other thing too, is like Jokic will go
to his left hand with his short range shot making,
but as Isaiah's riding that right shoulder all the way
into the lane, it's having a substantial effect disrupting Yokic's
(11:28):
short range shot making. He's having to power through Hartenstein
with that right shoulder just to get to that little
floater that hook shot somewhere in the lane and a
hard and Stein's just doing a great jobs. It's again,
part of it is Nikola Jokic and him just going
through one of the most bizarre shooting slumps I've seen
from him in a very long time. He's not even
(11:48):
making free throws right now. But at the very least,
Isaiah's doing the job of making life more difficult on
Nikola Jokic and then all of the guys around that
making plays. Alex Kruz I think is has been particularly
important for them on the defensive rebounding. This was another
thing that j Billis called out in the broadcast that
I thought was really smart. Jay's doing a great job,
by the way, coming over from college basketball, completely agenda
(12:11):
free and just doing some high quality NBA analysis. But
he was talking about Alex Cruso's tap out rebounds, and
you know, when you get into these offensive rebounding situations,
Jokic is like leaning on a person, and the upside
of him leaning on a person is he can, you know,
shove that person down and create a rebounding angle. But
it makes it so that Jokic can't really jump, and
(12:33):
so in those situations they call it crackdown rebound. It's
super important for the guys on the outside to come
flying in and to tap at the ball to prevent
it from falling into the offensive rebounder's hands when he's
got great position like that. I thought Alex Cruso had
several of those sequences where he came flying in and
knocked the ball away. He had like all these like
just little tiny plays that made a huge difference, Like oh,
(12:55):
big transition sequence, the Nuggets are on a run, Jamal
Murray goes for behind the back drib just reaches in
there and pokes it out or like did a similar
thing to Russell Westbrook forcing a turnover earlier in the game.
There's just a lot of like activity down the roster
as they just kind of play Denver into a lot
of their mistakes. Like the whole thing with Oklahoma City
is like you guys see it. There was a possession
(13:17):
where Aaron Gordon was dribbling up the right wing and
he ended up drawing a foul. But like you could see,
like whenever there's a big guy for Denver dribbling up
the floor, you literally just see all the OKAC guards
just swarm them because their whole style is predicated on
just forcing you to make mistakes by rushing you and
getting you to not be disciplined with your decision making
(13:39):
and like you're protecting the ball and finding passing angles
when you're just trying to get into your offense, Like, oh,
you're sloppy here, we're gonna take the ball away. You're
sloppy there, We're gonna cause a problem. Michael Porter Junior
wide open on a baseline cut late and gets set
up right in front of the basket. But he's just
rushing because of how Oklahoma City's defense can speed you up.
And I think like in a lot of ways, like
(14:01):
we can talk all we want about Oklahoma City's offense,
and I think most of the criticism of Oklahoma City's
offense that you've seen throughout the year has been kind
of proven correct in a lot of ways in this series.
But their defense is one of the greats. And you know,
I was talking with Jackson before we got on on
the live here, there was there was like a dynamic
(14:25):
at play in Game one where it felt like Denver
was physically dominating them. I've shared some clips in the
film session of Jokics just like literally like a man
amongst boys on the back line, just getting every single
rebound that he wanted. And they did twenty one offensive
rebounds in Game one to just thirteen for Oklahoma City.
But as we go down the line after that Game two,
(14:47):
Oklahoma City held up better. They held Denver to just
thirteen offensive rebounds, and then in Game three and in
Game four they actually out rebounded Denver on the offensive
glass eighteen to five, and offensive rebounds in Game three
and then once again today out rebounding Denver fifty five
to forty nine overall, fifteen to twelve on the offensive glass.
And I think there's several dynamics there because it's not
(15:10):
it's ball pursuit. Because again we talked about those crackdown rebounds.
There's a lot of opportunities where the ball's coming long
off the rim and Okay, see's just faster to the ball,
and then also just Okay sees pressure and they're athleticism.
It wears you down. And for all to talk about
Denver's home court advantage and the way it can wear
people down like Oklahoma City's athleticism wears you down, and
(15:31):
you can literally see Denver losing some of the physical
battles that they typically win because they're just overwhelmed by
the intensity and the physicality that Oklahoma City brings to
the table on the Denver front. I want to kind
of focus on Nikole Jokicic for a minute, because you know,
we can nitpick certain things like Russell Westbrook had a
really rough night tonight. He was minus twenty and twenty
(15:53):
seven minutes. That's brutal. Two for nine from three, two
for twelve overall, missed a airball a wide open three
in the left corner that could have given them a
lead late in the game. Just didn't bring that offensive
pop that he brought earlier in the series. You could
talk about, you know, Jamal Murray not being as reliable
as a shot maker as you need. You can talk
about Michael Porter Junior going one for seven Ohver five
(16:16):
from three. I thought he missed a couple of key
rebounds where he just was sloppy with the ball in
case On Wallace would just come in and knocked the
ball away from it. We talked about him smoking that
wide open layup opportunity and transition. Here's the thing, though,
when I look at those guys, they're not an advantageous
situation against Oklahoma City. When we talk about Oklahoma City
(16:36):
and their roster, they're flat out better than Denver. They're like,
flat out better in terms of just talent than Denver.
They are way more athletic. I don't like Jamal Murray's
getting hounded by Alex Crusoe and Lou Dort the entire series.
Like Russell Westbrook is not dealing with the same athletic
advantages he has in other matchups. Michael Porter Junior in
(16:58):
general has struggled against peak level athletes like I don't
view those guys as capable of solving this problem. But
I think Nikole Jokic is the best basketball player in
the world, and I hold him to an extremely high
standard as a result of that, and he does have
favorable matchups. I think Isaiah Hardenstein's a good defender, and
(17:19):
I think he's done a good job on Jokich. But
he's still getting to all the same types of little
bits of short range and long range shot making that
he's had access to over the course of his entire
prime here, and he's just missing everything. He's missing all
of his threes, he's missing all of his mid range
shot making. That little jab step mid range face up
(17:40):
jump shot that Hartenstein's been given him all series. He
just literally can't make it. He's not making any of
his like somber shuffle shots or any of his turnarounds
over either shoulder out of the post. He's even if
he on floaters when he gets into that range here,
he's missing layups right at the front of the rim.
His shot making has been absolutely brutal. Seven for twenty
(18:00):
two today he goes in Game three. In Game three's
eight for twenty five and then I think he was
six for sixteen in Game two, if I remember correctly,
I'm pulling it up real quick. And then he goes
six for sixteen in Game two. This is three games
in a row where Yokic's shot making is just not there.
(18:21):
I was talking with Jackson before we went live. It
actually reminds me this series, and the series isn't over, obviously,
but it reminds me a lot of the Cleveland Golden
State Series in twenty fifteen, where now it's different because
for Cleveland it was because of injuries. For Oklahoma City,
it's because they're just, you know, one of the more
talented rosters in the league. But there's a clear talent gap,
(18:41):
right But Lebron at that phase in his career. You know,
I know Steph fans are inclined to disagree, but I
thought Lebron was clearly the best player in the series.
I think Jokich is clearly the best player in this series.
And I thought it was gettible. When I go back
and I think about twenty fifteen, I thought it was gettable.
But the thing is is that that one season, that
(19:02):
twenty fifteen season, was the one time in that stretch
from like twenty twelve to twenty twenty when Lebron was
the best player in the world, where he just couldn't shoot.
That was the year Lebron couldn't shoot. And I feel like,
if you literally just take twenty sixteen Lebron and put
him in that series, they win the championship. But it
was like kind of just a missed opportunity. Lebron is
(19:23):
still the best player, and he's still you know, because
Steph was struggling his ass off in that series too,
But he's still the best player, and he's still making
all these plays, and he's still doing all these good things,
but just that little bit of shot making wasn't there,
and it was just the difference between them closing that
deal in them not closing that deal. And that's literally
how I feel about Nicole Jokic in this series. Oklahoma
(19:45):
City's better, They're substantially favored, they should be favored because
of the talent advantage, but here we are, Oklahoma City's
struggling a little bit under the pressure and intensity of
the moment, just like Golden State did in that final series,
and Nikole Jokic has the ability to snatch this series.
It's sitting there right in front of him and he
can't make a shot, and it's just weird. It's just
(20:06):
weird to be in this kind of situation again where
it just feels like you've got the best player in
the world just kind of missing such a vitally important
part of his game, and it kind of feels like
the difference, Like I don't know about you, guys, I
feel like the difference between Denver being up, not just
up three to one, but having won easily in game
three and Game four is just Jokic making shots and
(20:27):
he can't make shots, and that's it. Like I've heard
people talking about Shaye and Jadub and Shane jdab are
bad today. Here's the thing, guys, I've I've never used
the phrase shade shakeyos Alexander's best player in the world, don't.
I don't think Shae's that level of player. I think
Jokic is better than him. I hold him to a
different standard. I view Jokic as a guy who's rapidly
(20:47):
ascending the all time great players in NBA history list.
I'm holding him to a different standard. And I feel
like this was a series Denver could have won and
Jokic's inability to make anything outside of the paint, or
really anything outside of three feet in front of the
basket has been such a huge difference in their ability
to contend in these games. And now it feels really tough, like,
(21:07):
I don't know, the athleticism is really starting to wear
on Denver, and I just don't feel confident in their
ability to go win a game again in Oklahoma City,
especially when you really zoom out from this series, and
it's felt, it's felt like Oklahoma City has been in
control for the most part outside of these clutch situations.
And here we were in another clutch situation tonight and
(21:29):
Yokic couldn't make a shot, and Shay and j Dubb
made shots, and of role players made shots, and here
Oklahoma City is tying the series. So I think Oklahoma
City should be a substantial favorite. Now, while we're taking questions,
we'll look at DraftKings and see how the ads the
odds have moved. But I would assume Oklahoma City is
like minus five hundred to win the series or somewhere
(21:49):
in that department. Now, let's do a good fifteen to
twenty minutes of questions and then we'll head over to playback.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
First, question about Jokic has often to struck Yokitch's zero
touch right now? Are you seeing anything that could explain that?
Is he hurt? How does he just lose his touch,
especially from such close arrange something you've talked about him
and almost being up until this point sort of slump
proof because of how many shots he gets so close.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
To By the way, Oklahoma City's minus five point fifty
to win the series now and they're crazy according to DraftKings.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Jeez.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So you know, Jackson, I'm sure you'll agree with me
on this. But like any of you guys out there
that play a good amount of basketball, know that, like
shooting is a fickle thing in general, you can pretty
much even the greatest shooters of all time, you can
go into their game logs and you can find three
four game long stretches where they can't make a shot.
And the reason why is because it's like the best
(22:42):
shooters in the world miss more than half of their shots.
So if you're gonna miss more than half your shots,
it's like you can do everything right and it's probably
not gonna go in. And so that ends up leading
to like kind of a mental dynamic. The big one
I'm seeing is Yokich is long on everything, Like everything's
all off the heel of the rim, and so his
touch is just off right now. I think he's in
(23:04):
his head about it. It gets to the point where,
like when I saw him missing those free throws and
like literally missing like his easy little like touch shots
right three four, five feet in front of the rim.
To me, I just think he's got like I think
it's like in Yip's territory, Like he just has lost
confidence in his ability to knock down shots and it's
become a huge problem.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, it's it's really bizarre to watch. I can't. I
mean the free throws, it's everything. He really cannot all
three levels. He is struggling to make shots, and I
have not I cannot remember seeing the time that he's
struggled so consistently. It's very bizarre to watch.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, I'm gonna try to I'm gonna try to slash
Synergy's updated to shot making numbers, and I'll let you
guys know once I see him.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
All right. Next question, do you feel like Sga and
Jokic are dropping their best in the world status. I
feel like, considering how they're both struggling to score so
much right now, that Yiannis has a real argument at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Janna hasn't won a playoff series since twenty twenty two,
so I don't think anyone's gonna be moving honest up
up the list. Here's the thing. I still think Jokic
has been very good in this series in every way
other than shot making, He's He's been a little bit
sloppy with the basketball. He's had some turnovers, but he
wasn't as bad today as he was in Game three.
In Game two, But like Jokic actually has played phenomenally
(24:19):
well defensively in this series. I want to give him
some credit for that. I to me, there isn't a
There isn't a player out there who's clearly playing at
a level higher than what I've seen Jokic be at
in the past. It's just Jokic right now is underachieving
to his relative ceiling. But I think I don't know
about you, Jackson. I still think he's the best player
in the world, don't you.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I do too. And I also think that maybe I'm
giving too much leeway to the superstar, but there's a
lot of supersiars. Yeah, that's a good point because the
physical the physicality in the playoffs is I think pretty
inarguably a level up from the past years of the playoffs,
obviously from the regular season, and I think even definitely
compared to the last couple of years of the playoffs.
Which isn't an excuse to let say all they can
(25:00):
just play bad, but it's it's fair to point out
that Tatum is shooting poorly, Sga is shooting poorly, yok
is shooting poorly. Steph has had some good games, he's
also had some really bad shooting performances. A lot of
stars are shooting the ball poorly.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Well, And the thing that's specifically frustrating about it with
Yokich is, like we've talked about this specific concept before.
Like I one of the reasons why I've gravitated towards bigger,
stronger power players in the postseason over the years is
because of the fact that they have a certain resilience
in rock fights. But the problem is is, like Yokich's superpower,
(25:35):
which is the ability to like oh, I can battle
to close to the rim, where variance isn't an issue.
He's shooting it, like he's literally not making anything right
at the front of the rim. So like it's it's
I don't necessarily it's it's really hard for me to
process this because it's just so unusual compared to the
(25:56):
rest of his career. But like this is supposed to
be the one type of basketball that Jokic is impervious to,
unlike the other stars in the league. And so that's
where it's discouraging. Like even Giannis over the years has
struggled as like a half court surgeon in rock fight environments,
but like Jokic hasn't, and like this is just the
first substantial stretch where he has. And so I want
(26:18):
to again, I want to give Okay seek credit. They're
doing a great job swarming him. Hartenstein's doing a good job.
But I think a good chunk of this is just
jokicch is just playing well below his capability.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, speaking of playing below's capability, another question SGA with
another bad shooting game in the playoffs, can we hold
him to the same standard that we hold players like
Jason Tatum to.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I here's the thing with with Shay, Like, once again,
like I you know, I have my feelings about who
Shay is and what he's capable of. But Shay to
me is kind of still in this like phase of
player ranking where I don't it's all theoretically because it
hasn't come to fruition in the playoff stage. But like
the this is absolutely fair, and we've I mean we've
(27:02):
been I don't know about you. Like Jackson, we've been
criticizing him through this entire series. I feel like he's
pretty consistently at the end of these games kind of
resulted to high ISOs. I thought he made some better
plays against the zone in the final fifteen minutes or
so of this game. The big thing that he's running
into is like there'll be these sequences where like Denver
will get going and they'll hit a couple shots in
a row, and he'll just come down and take a
contested fifteen footer and it'll brick, and then it'll be
(27:25):
like it'll just feel like a punch to the gut
for Okayse's offense. And then in that late third quarter stretch,
like he straight up like for like seven straight minutes
of game clocks just like wouldn't shoot, Like he just
he just was dribbling the ball at the floor and
just throwing swing passes. And so it's like, Okay, the
no one's saying that you shouldn't shoot at all against
the zone. We're just saying that you need to function
as like the thing that gets the zone moving. And
(27:46):
so once once him and Jay Dubb started actually looking
to get the ball into the middle of the floor
to pass instead of get the ball into the middle
of the floor to shoot, they started to have the
ball pop around some more and have some of those
better sequences. But the other thing, too, is like, you
want to let the series play out, like there's a
you know, they still got to win two more games
and we'll see how Shaye looks at that point, and
(28:08):
there's more series in the future for them. But this
is the first playoff run in Shaye's entire career where
they are legitimately the championship favorites and all the pressure
is on them, and so far through the seven games
or eight games, he hasn't been very good. But there's
still plenty of basketball left for him to figure it out.
(28:28):
And here they are there two two, they still have
a very good chance to win the series. And so similarly,
with Jason Tatum, like he deserves criticism for the way
that he played during the two games as they drop
down oh two, but the opportunity is still in front
of him to cl out of this, and all we're
gonna do is just cover it game to game. Shay's
been pretty bad. I thought he was pretty bad again tonight.
I thought he made a couple of huge plays late
(28:50):
in this game, which we're gonna credit when it happens,
and if he breaks out and starts playing amazing, we'll
then start discussing it in that context. But we're all
just taking this game to game or we're writing this
story as goes.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, it's sort of the nature. The challenging nature of
the playoffs is how easy it is to overreact from
game to game. Basis like, you're so right that this
series feels like one that is going to go seven.
It certainly, I mean it's guaranteed to go six. It
feels like it's going to go seven, which means we
are barely over half half of the games played. So
one of these two stars who's been struggling, Yoka your Sgay,
maybe we end up with, you know, four consecutive rock
(29:24):
fights to end the series. It's possible, but I would
assume that one of the two superstars is going to
elevate their play and start making some shots, and we'll
be we'll have to rewrite the way where whichever guy
it ends up being, we're gonna have to rewrite the
story in real time.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Absolutely, Like it's the My whole thing is, like just
be consistent with it. Like I think where we go
go into some dangerous territories when you criticize a guy
when he sucks and then don't bring it up at
all when he plays well or vice versa, and like
that's the thing, Like I I have routinely come on
the show and said that I personally have never watched
an offensive basketball player that generates offense easier than Nicoliokich,
(29:59):
Like I I think he's the best offensive player I've
ever watched. He's stunk it up the last three games
and it's been a problem. Like Denver scored eighty seven
points today, Like that's not good enough for a guy
that I considered to be the best offensive player that
I've ever seen. And so like that, that's really my
whole thing that I'll try to do is just try
to be as consistent as possible and try very hard
(30:19):
to not let you know my personal biases get in
the way, even though they naturally will to a certain extent.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Next question, we'll take a couple more. How does Jalen
Williams get out of his slump? It feels like when
he's playing his best, nobody in the West can compete
with the Thunder. I don't even know if he's on
that big of a slump. He had a pretty decent
game last ye Yeah he was.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
He was amazing in Game three outside of overtime, really,
and I don't even blame him for going off the
rails and regulation because Shay just kind of looked him
off and co opted those final couple possessions. But like
as far as as far as today goes like it
was like a steady die at a zone, let me
actually pull up the numbers. I bet you, I bet you.
They ran zone fifty possessions today. But it just zone
(30:59):
is It is such a different responsibility to zone shifts,
the responsibility almost entirely to catch and shoot playing a
players and not they ran forty five possessions of zone today,
forty five possessions and Denver got or Oklahoma City got
just zero point seven to eight points per possession. But
it really just comes down to, like those those guys
(31:21):
at the point of attack, just getting the ball moving,
whereas in man demand situations it's very much about like
setting people up for like play finishing situations and looking
to score. But like, if you try to score on
the ball against the zone, you're gonna have problems. But okay, see,
to their credit ten possessions of zone in the fourth quarter,
they did get one point per possession in the fourth quarter,
so they did slowly start to figure it out over
(31:43):
the course of the game.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Let's do one more one more question and then we'll
go play back. Prenthese is not just about okay, see,
what is the best scheme throughout the NBA that you
have seen at guarding Jokic in his career? And if
and if you had to make a plan for a
single their game, a game seven against Nikola Jokic, how
would you try?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
And so I think Okohama City has shown a really
strong example of how a too big look can work.
And if Denver were to have won this series, which
I don't think they will anymore, I think Minnesota would
have similar capability to do this, and they've shown it
over the years. But the problem is is when you
put a smaller forward, So like let's talk like with
(32:27):
the Lakers series, it was always Ruby Hachimura someone like that, Right,
If you put a Ruby Hachimura on Nikola Jokic and
you have Anthony Davis behind him, you have the rim
protection piece. But it's just so easy for Jokic to
get to his short range shot making against Ruey because
he's so much bigger than Ruey, and so what he
can do is he can just kind of bump Ruy
(32:51):
and get to like little short seven foot shots over
both shoulders and he's gonna make them sixty five percent
of the time. The uniqueness of the Chet Hartenstein partnership
is Chet provides the vertical length that you get from
a center on the back line, but Isaiah Hartenstein provides
the trunky like strength that you get from a center,
(33:15):
And so it's basically like a literal two center. Look
where instead of it being Ruy that's funneling you into
Anthony Davis, it's Isaiah Hartenstein playing Jokic's right hand, so
basically forcing him to drive. So Jokic can't even get
to higher quality short range looks, and they're funneling him
into Chet who's got the length on the back line.
And so I think they just kind of uniquely have
(33:37):
the personnel to put a big, strong player on Jokic
that is not you know, six' nine but is rather seven,
feet but then also having real length behind, him and
then they're swarming and closing out really. Well BUT i
still Think jokic should be able to solve This hartenstein
problem and he needs to just do a better, job
and most of it just comes down to his jump
shots not going in at. All, NOW i do think
(33:59):
that's like the that is specifically different is Just hartenstein
being so big but also having a center behind. Him all, right,
guys that's all we have for today on the YouTube.
Live as, always as sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
me and supporting the. Show we're gonna go over to
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see you guys there. Again that's playback DOT tv Slash hoops.
Tonight what's up. Guys as, ALWAYS i appreciate you for
(34:21):
listening to and Supporting oops. Tonight it would actually be
really helpful for us if you guys would take a
second and leave a rating and a. Review as, ALWAYS
i appreciate you guys supporting, us but if you could
take a minute to do, THAT i really appreciate.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
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(02:32):
hips tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Sunday, everybody. Hope
all you guys are having a great weekend. Schedule is
a little weird today because I'm going with calling Coward
later tonight, so we are not covering pacers Calves in
today's show. We're gonna be covering that tomorrow mornings. Keep
an eye on the feed for that. In today's show,
we're just hitting Denver versus OKC. I viewed this game
(02:52):
and the game later this evening as games where whoever
wins is most likely going to win the series. The
Thunder could either tie it, take it back to OKC
for a best of three with all the momentum, especially
after having basically choked away two of the games, and
be in a commanding position to win. Or Denver could
go up three to one and put themselves in a
position where it's extremely difficult to lose three games in
(03:14):
a row, and same thing goes for Calves Pacers. Calves
get a win tonight, it's two to two, going back
to Cleveland, totally different series. Pacers get a win Tonight's
three to one, feels like they're in control. And round
one of these two big games today goes to the
Oklahoma City thunder down eight in the early fourth quarter
off of a Peyton Watson hook shot and they just
(03:35):
methodically walk down the Denver Nuggets to get a huge
win to save their season and send them back to
oklahom City. You guys are the Joe before we get started.
Subscribe to the Hoops and I YouTube channels. You don't
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(03:56):
doing great work on our social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
make sure you guys follow us there more content throughout
the season, and then keep dropping mailbag questions into the
YouTube comments. Since we only have one game today, we'll
probably do a solid fifteen minutes or so of questions
from the chat at the tail end of the show,
So make sure you guys get your questions in there.
And then when we finish up here today, we will
be going over to watch playback for our typical after show.
(04:19):
It's more informal. We take callers, we watch some film,
we'll have some fun over there. Probably a little shorter
because I gotta be ready for Collins. We'll probably only
go for about a half hour today, but head over
to Playback's playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight when we
are done. You can also find that link in the
description of this video. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So this was a weird game in the sense that
(04:39):
with Denver playing as much zone as they did, both
Shay and j Dubb had really rough games, taking bad
shots against the zone, forcing things early. The two of
them I thought were pretty awful on offense throughout this game.
Both of them made defensive plays at various points in
the game, but I thought both of them really struggled
against the zone. And so what I want to talk
(05:00):
about here for a few minutes is specifically how Oklahoma
City broke the zone, because that was basically how they
won this game. In the late third quarter, they started
to hit some of their catch and shoot threes against
the zone. You could see that rhythm build and then
suddenly they were a runaway freight train. In that fourth quarter,
ended up scoring twenty nine points, their most productive offensive
(05:21):
quarter of this particular game. And really, what a two
three zone is designed to do is to break your rhythm.
We talked about this concept after the Calves Pacers game,
if you guys remember, because the Calves utilized a three
two zone in that series, and three to two zone
does a very good job of guarding the three point line.
Has some vulnerabilities on the back line simply because there
(05:43):
are two players that are responsible for both the paint
and the corners and in many cases also coming up
a little bit to the elbows. And so with that
being the case, there's just not as much manpower accommodating
the back line with the two three zone fundamentally different.
You've got a guy who's just pretty much sitting back
there in Nikola Jokic, and the four guys around them
(06:03):
are you know, syncing in and jutting back out, but
they're they're in a position where four guys are covering
all that space on the three point line, and so
there are open threes that are available against the zone.
But one of the things that can be a problem
against the zone is when you just start taking the
first decent looking three that you get your eyes on,
and what happens there is it will disrupt the rhythm
(06:25):
of your offense, and all of a sudden, your possessions
are quick and they don't really have any flow to them,
and a missed three can be kind of disheartening as
you head back down the other way. And I thought
Ja Billis did an awesome job kind of breaking this
down on the broadcast. But one of the things that
the Thunder started to do a much better job of
in the late third quarter was just getting some natural
(06:46):
rhythm within their two three zone attack, so essentially getting
the ball from side to side. They would like screen
the top, swing screen the top, drive into the gap,
swing to the wing, then like backscreen for somebody, swing
swing back to the opposite side of the floor. The
ball was popping around and they were able to generate
some natural rhythm from a zone possession that is typically
(07:09):
not there the way you would see it in a
man possession, and a man possession, you run the same
actions you've been running all season. It's the same reads
that you've been seeing all season. There are only three
or four different types of coverages that you're gonna see,
and you kind of know what to expect in all
those situations. Against a zone, it's very different. You have
to find a way to be comfortable. And this is
where I have to shout out Oklahoma City's bench guys,
because they desperately needed somebody to start knocking down shots
(07:33):
there in that second half, and Aaron Wiggins in Kason
Wallace in that late third quarter got the lid off
of the rim, and that ended up being enough for
the entire team to just kind of relax a little
bit and start making some plays. Between Kason, Aaron Wiggins,
and Alex Crusoe, those guys hit eight threes in fourteen attempts,
and every single one of them was vitally important for
(07:56):
this Thunder team. And then you know, as bad as
Jade and Shae were for the majority of this game,
they each made some big plays in that fourth quarter stretch.
J Dub had a nice ball screen against the zone
where he got into the middle of the paint and
threw a lob to Hartenstein. That was the play where
Payton Watson tried to block him and he got the
(08:17):
and one. J Dubb had a nice driving layup off
the left wing. Late Shay had a driving layup. There
was a fun sequence where the lead was at three
off of a thunder bucket. Mark Dagenal calls a time out.
Comes out of the time out with a ton of
backcourt ball pressure forces a five second out of bounds call.
(08:37):
Ball goes back to OKC. They inbound to Shae, and
Shae just goes right to his right shoulder, fade away
and finally gets one to go over his right shoulder.
That pushes the lead to five. And at that point,
like the entire psychology, the game shifted so heavily towards OKC,
it felt like it was beyond Denver's grasp. So for
as bad as those guys were offensively, they did make
(08:59):
a couple of big late in the game, and they
needed every single one of them. But I want to
highlight the defense because obviously, if you hold a team
to eight points in the opening quarter, as we had
the lowest scoring first quarter in NBA, playoff history, or
at least tied for it, but then also holding them
to eighteen in the fourth quarter after giving up that
thirty three point third quarter. And there's several different elements
(09:21):
that I want to zoom in on. First of all,
Keason Wallace, I thought did an amazing job on Jamal
Murray in the first half. In particular, he didn't get
as much of an opportunity to work on him in
the third quarter run when Denver's offense started to get going.
But in that first half, he was downright disruptive to Jamal,
especially in that first quarter as Oklahoma City built their
(09:43):
initial lead, and then all like every opportunity that he had,
he just did a little bit better job navigating screens.
I thought Jamal was able to get a little bit
more separation from Lou on some of those screening actions
than he was from Kaison. Keison's just so good at
navigating those screen situations. And then this is where I
want to turn to Isaiah Hartens, because you know, there
are many reasons why the Thunder went after Isaiah Hartenstein.
(10:04):
He kind of landed into a specific gap in their
payroll where their younger players weren't going to have to
get paid for a few years, so they could afford
to throw a bunch of money at a starting caliber
NBA center that was going to cost a lot, but
not have to worry about it handcuffing their ability to
build a roster around their stars in the future. And
the actual utility of Hartenstein was the ability to play
(10:25):
a two big look with chet Holmgren at the four.
But I bet you if you got into the year
of that front office, they would tell you it was
mostly about the Jokich matchup. And here's the thing. We're
going to talk about yokicch in a bigger picture context
because I think Jokic is kind of fumbling the bag
here a little bit. But Isaiah Hartenstein's doing a really
good job. There's a couple of key things. Did you
guys notice on some of those jab step sequences that
(10:47):
Jokich is putting on him, he's not going for the
jab step and he's sitting on that right shoulder, so
basically he's opening up his stance and conceding the drive
because he knows he has all sorts of help on
the back line, and he's just getting his left foot
almost like up where Jokic's right foot is to the
point where he's just sitting on that right shoulder, so
(11:08):
Jokic can't get the separation on his jab step to
try to get a clean look from three. He's just
driving to the left right into the teeth of the defense.
And the other thing too, is like Jokic will go
to his left hand with his short range shot making,
but as Isaiah's riding that right shoulder all the way
into the lane, it's having a substantial effect disrupting Yokic's
(11:28):
short range shot making. He's having to power through Hartenstein
with that right shoulder just to get to that little
floater that hook shot somewhere in the lane and a
hard and Stein's just doing a great jobs. It's again,
part of it is Nikola Jokic and him just going
through one of the most bizarre shooting slumps I've seen
from him in a very long time. He's not even
(11:48):
making free throws right now. But at the very least,
Isaiah's doing the job of making life more difficult on
Nikola Jokic and then all of the guys around that
making plays. Alex Kruz I think is has been particularly
important for them on the defensive rebounding. This was another
thing that j Billis called out in the broadcast that
I thought was really smart. Jay's doing a great job,
by the way, coming over from college basketball, completely agenda
(12:11):
free and just doing some high quality NBA analysis. But
he was talking about Alex Cruso's tap out rebounds, and
you know, when you get into these offensive rebounding situations,
Jokic is like leaning on a person, and the upside
of him leaning on a person is he can, you know,
shove that person down and create a rebounding angle. But
it makes it so that Jokic can't really jump, and
(12:33):
so in those situations they call it crackdown rebound. It's
super important for the guys on the outside to come
flying in and to tap at the ball to prevent
it from falling into the offensive rebounder's hands when he's
got great position like that. I thought Alex Cruso had
several of those sequences where he came flying in and
knocked the ball away. He had like all these like
just little tiny plays that made a huge difference, Like oh,
(12:55):
big transition sequence, the Nuggets are on a run, Jamal
Murray goes for behind the back drib just reaches in
there and pokes it out or like did a similar
thing to Russell Westbrook forcing a turnover earlier in the game.
There's just a lot of like activity down the roster
as they just kind of play Denver into a lot
of their mistakes. Like the whole thing with Oklahoma City
is like you guys see it. There was a possession
(13:17):
where Aaron Gordon was dribbling up the right wing and
he ended up drawing a foul. But like you could see,
like whenever there's a big guy for Denver dribbling up
the floor, you literally just see all the OKAC guards
just swarm them because their whole style is predicated on
just forcing you to make mistakes by rushing you and
getting you to not be disciplined with your decision making
(13:39):
and like you're protecting the ball and finding passing angles
when you're just trying to get into your offense, Like, oh,
you're sloppy here, we're gonna take the ball away. You're
sloppy there, We're gonna cause a problem. Michael Porter Junior
wide open on a baseline cut late and gets set
up right in front of the basket. But he's just
rushing because of how Oklahoma City's defense can speed you up.
And I think like in a lot of ways, like
(14:01):
we can talk all we want about Oklahoma City's offense,
and I think most of the criticism of Oklahoma City's
offense that you've seen throughout the year has been kind
of proven correct in a lot of ways in this series.
But their defense is one of the greats. And you know,
I was talking with Jackson before we got on on
the live here, there was there was like a dynamic
(14:25):
at play in Game one where it felt like Denver
was physically dominating them. I've shared some clips in the
film session of Jokics just like literally like a man
amongst boys on the back line, just getting every single
rebound that he wanted. And they did twenty one offensive
rebounds in Game one to just thirteen for Oklahoma City.
But as we go down the line after that Game two,
(14:47):
Oklahoma City held up better. They held Denver to just
thirteen offensive rebounds, and then in Game three and in
Game four they actually out rebounded Denver on the offensive
glass eighteen to five, and offensive rebounds in Game three
and then once again today out rebounding Denver fifty five
to forty nine overall, fifteen to twelve on the offensive glass.
And I think there's several dynamics there because it's not
(15:10):
it's ball pursuit. Because again we talked about those crackdown rebounds.
There's a lot of opportunities where the ball's coming long
off the rim and Okay, see's just faster to the ball,
and then also just Okay sees pressure and they're athleticism.
It wears you down. And for all to talk about
Denver's home court advantage and the way it can wear
people down like Oklahoma City's athleticism wears you down, and
(15:31):
you can literally see Denver losing some of the physical
battles that they typically win because they're just overwhelmed by
the intensity and the physicality that Oklahoma City brings to
the table on the Denver front. I want to kind
of focus on Nikole Jokicic for a minute, because you know,
we can nitpick certain things like Russell Westbrook had a
really rough night tonight. He was minus twenty and twenty
(15:53):
seven minutes. That's brutal. Two for nine from three, two
for twelve overall, missed a airball a wide open three
in the left corner that could have given them a
lead late in the game. Just didn't bring that offensive
pop that he brought earlier in the series. You could
talk about, you know, Jamal Murray not being as reliable
as a shot maker as you need. You can talk
about Michael Porter Junior going one for seven Ohver five
(16:16):
from three. I thought he missed a couple of key
rebounds where he just was sloppy with the ball in
case On Wallace would just come in and knocked the
ball away from it. We talked about him smoking that
wide open layup opportunity and transition. Here's the thing, though,
when I look at those guys, they're not an advantageous
situation against Oklahoma City. When we talk about Oklahoma City
(16:36):
and their roster, they're flat out better than Denver. They're like,
flat out better in terms of just talent than Denver.
They are way more athletic. I don't like Jamal Murray's
getting hounded by Alex Crusoe and Lou Dort the entire series.
Like Russell Westbrook is not dealing with the same athletic
advantages he has in other matchups. Michael Porter Junior in
(16:58):
general has struggled against peak level athletes like I don't
view those guys as capable of solving this problem. But
I think Nikole Jokic is the best basketball player in
the world, and I hold him to an extremely high
standard as a result of that, and he does have
favorable matchups. I think Isaiah Hardenstein's a good defender, and
(17:19):
I think he's done a good job on Jokich. But
he's still getting to all the same types of little
bits of short range and long range shot making that
he's had access to over the course of his entire
prime here, and he's just missing everything. He's missing all
of his threes, he's missing all of his mid range
shot making. That little jab step mid range face up
(17:40):
jump shot that Hartenstein's been given him all series. He
just literally can't make it. He's not making any of
his like somber shuffle shots or any of his turnarounds
over either shoulder out of the post. He's even if
he on floaters when he gets into that range here,
he's missing layups right at the front of the rim.
His shot making has been absolutely brutal. Seven for twenty
(18:00):
two today he goes in Game three. In Game three's
eight for twenty five and then I think he was
six for sixteen in Game two, if I remember correctly,
I'm pulling it up real quick. And then he goes
six for sixteen in Game two. This is three games
in a row where Yokic's shot making is just not there.
(18:21):
I was talking with Jackson before we went live. It
actually reminds me this series, and the series isn't over, obviously,
but it reminds me a lot of the Cleveland Golden
State Series in twenty fifteen, where now it's different because
for Cleveland it was because of injuries. For Oklahoma City,
it's because they're just, you know, one of the more
talented rosters in the league. But there's a clear talent gap,
(18:41):
right But Lebron at that phase in his career. You know,
I know Steph fans are inclined to disagree, but I
thought Lebron was clearly the best player in the series.
I think Jokich is clearly the best player in this series.
And I thought it was gettible. When I go back
and I think about twenty fifteen, I thought it was gettable.
But the thing is is that that one season, that
(19:02):
twenty fifteen season, was the one time in that stretch
from like twenty twelve to twenty twenty when Lebron was
the best player in the world, where he just couldn't shoot.
That was the year Lebron couldn't shoot. And I feel like,
if you literally just take twenty sixteen Lebron and put
him in that series, they win the championship. But it
was like kind of just a missed opportunity. Lebron is
(19:23):
still the best player, and he's still you know, because
Steph was struggling his ass off in that series too,
But he's still the best player, and he's still making
all these plays, and he's still doing all these good things,
but just that little bit of shot making wasn't there,
and it was just the difference between them closing that
deal in them not closing that deal. And that's literally
how I feel about Nicole Jokic in this series. Oklahoma
(19:45):
City's better, They're substantially favored, they should be favored because
of the talent advantage, but here we are, Oklahoma City's
struggling a little bit under the pressure and intensity of
the moment, just like Golden State did in that final series,
and Nikole Jokic has the ability to snatch this series.
It's sitting there right in front of him and he
can't make a shot, and it's just weird. It's just
(20:06):
weird to be in this kind of situation again where
it just feels like you've got the best player in
the world just kind of missing such a vitally important
part of his game, and it kind of feels like
the difference, Like I don't know about you, guys, I
feel like the difference between Denver being up, not just
up three to one, but having won easily in game
three and Game four is just Jokic making shots and
(20:27):
he can't make shots, and that's it. Like I've heard
people talking about Shaye and Jadub and Shane jdab are
bad today. Here's the thing, guys, I've I've never used
the phrase shade shakeyos Alexander's best player in the world, don't.
I don't think Shae's that level of player. I think
Jokic is better than him. I hold him to a
different standard. I view Jokic as a guy who's rapidly
(20:47):
ascending the all time great players in NBA history list.
I'm holding him to a different standard. And I feel
like this was a series Denver could have won and
Jokic's inability to make anything outside of the paint, or
really anything outside of three feet in front of the
basket has been such a huge difference in their ability
to contend in these games. And now it feels really tough, like,
(21:07):
I don't know, the athleticism is really starting to wear
on Denver, and I just don't feel confident in their
ability to go win a game again in Oklahoma City,
especially when you really zoom out from this series, and
it's felt, it's felt like Oklahoma City has been in
control for the most part outside of these clutch situations.
And here we were in another clutch situation tonight and
(21:29):
Yokic couldn't make a shot, and Shay and j Dubb
made shots, and of role players made shots, and here
Oklahoma City is tying the series. So I think Oklahoma
City should be a substantial favorite. Now, while we're taking questions,
we'll look at DraftKings and see how the ads the
odds have moved. But I would assume Oklahoma City is
like minus five hundred to win the series or somewhere
(21:49):
in that department. Now, let's do a good fifteen to
twenty minutes of questions and then we'll head over to playback.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
First, question about Jokic has often to struck Yokitch's zero
touch right now? Are you seeing anything that could explain that?
Is he hurt? How does he just lose his touch,
especially from such close arrange something you've talked about him
and almost being up until this point sort of slump
proof because of how many shots he gets so close.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
To By the way, Oklahoma City's minus five point fifty
to win the series now and they're crazy according to DraftKings.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Jeez.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So you know, Jackson, I'm sure you'll agree with me
on this. But like any of you guys out there
that play a good amount of basketball, know that, like
shooting is a fickle thing in general, you can pretty
much even the greatest shooters of all time, you can
go into their game logs and you can find three
four game long stretches where they can't make a shot.
And the reason why is because it's like the best
(22:42):
shooters in the world miss more than half of their shots.
So if you're gonna miss more than half your shots,
it's like you can do everything right and it's probably
not gonna go in. And so that ends up leading
to like kind of a mental dynamic. The big one
I'm seeing is Yokich is long on everything, Like everything's
all off the heel of the rim, and so his
touch is just off right now. I think he's in
(23:04):
his head about it. It gets to the point where,
like when I saw him missing those free throws and
like literally missing like his easy little like touch shots
right three four, five feet in front of the rim.
To me, I just think he's got like I think
it's like in Yip's territory, Like he just has lost
confidence in his ability to knock down shots and it's
become a huge problem.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, it's it's really bizarre to watch. I can't. I
mean the free throws, it's everything. He really cannot all
three levels. He is struggling to make shots, and I
have not I cannot remember seeing the time that he's
struggled so consistently. It's very bizarre to watch.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, I'm gonna try to I'm gonna try to slash
Synergy's updated to shot making numbers, and I'll let you
guys know once I see him.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
All right. Next question, do you feel like Sga and
Jokic are dropping their best in the world status. I
feel like, considering how they're both struggling to score so
much right now, that Yiannis has a real argument at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Janna hasn't won a playoff series since twenty twenty two,
so I don't think anyone's gonna be moving honest up
up the list. Here's the thing. I still think Jokic
has been very good in this series in every way
other than shot making, He's He's been a little bit
sloppy with the basketball. He's had some turnovers, but he
wasn't as bad today as he was in Game three.
In Game two, But like Jokic actually has played phenomenally
(24:19):
well defensively in this series. I want to give him
some credit for that. I to me, there isn't a
There isn't a player out there who's clearly playing at
a level higher than what I've seen Jokic be at
in the past. It's just Jokic right now is underachieving
to his relative ceiling. But I think I don't know
about you, Jackson. I still think he's the best player
in the world, don't you.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I do too. And I also think that maybe I'm
giving too much leeway to the superstar, but there's a
lot of supersiars. Yeah, that's a good point because the
physical the physicality in the playoffs is I think pretty
inarguably a level up from the past years of the playoffs,
obviously from the regular season, and I think even definitely
compared to the last couple of years of the playoffs.
Which isn't an excuse to let say all they can
(25:00):
just play bad, but it's it's fair to point out
that Tatum is shooting poorly, Sga is shooting poorly, yok
is shooting poorly. Steph has had some good games, he's
also had some really bad shooting performances. A lot of
stars are shooting the ball poorly.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Well, And the thing that's specifically frustrating about it with
Yokich is, like we've talked about this specific concept before.
Like I one of the reasons why I've gravitated towards bigger,
stronger power players in the postseason over the years is
because of the fact that they have a certain resilience
in rock fights. But the problem is is, like Yokich's superpower,
(25:35):
which is the ability to like oh, I can battle
to close to the rim, where variance isn't an issue.
He's shooting it, like he's literally not making anything right
at the front of the rim. So like it's it's
I don't necessarily it's it's really hard for me to
process this because it's just so unusual compared to the
(25:56):
rest of his career. But like this is supposed to
be the one type of basketball that Jokic is impervious to,
unlike the other stars in the league. And so that's
where it's discouraging. Like even Giannis over the years has
struggled as like a half court surgeon in rock fight environments,
but like Jokic hasn't, and like this is just the
first substantial stretch where he has. And so I want
(26:18):
to again, I want to give Okay seek credit. They're
doing a great job swarming him. Hartenstein's doing a good job.
But I think a good chunk of this is just
jokicch is just playing well below his capability.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, speaking of playing below's capability, another question SGA with
another bad shooting game in the playoffs, can we hold
him to the same standard that we hold players like
Jason Tatum to.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I here's the thing with with Shay, Like, once again,
like I you know, I have my feelings about who
Shay is and what he's capable of. But Shay to
me is kind of still in this like phase of
player ranking where I don't it's all theoretically because it
hasn't come to fruition in the playoff stage. But like
the this is absolutely fair, and we've I mean we've
(27:02):
been I don't know about you. Like Jackson, we've been
criticizing him through this entire series. I feel like he's
pretty consistently at the end of these games kind of
resulted to high ISOs. I thought he made some better
plays against the zone in the final fifteen minutes or
so of this game. The big thing that he's running
into is like there'll be these sequences where like Denver
will get going and they'll hit a couple shots in
a row, and he'll just come down and take a
contested fifteen footer and it'll brick, and then it'll be
(27:25):
like it'll just feel like a punch to the gut
for Okayse's offense. And then in that late third quarter stretch,
like he straight up like for like seven straight minutes
of game clocks just like wouldn't shoot, Like he just
he just was dribbling the ball at the floor and
just throwing swing passes. And so it's like, Okay, the
no one's saying that you shouldn't shoot at all against
the zone. We're just saying that you need to function
as like the thing that gets the zone moving. And
(27:46):
so once once him and Jay Dubb started actually looking
to get the ball into the middle of the floor
to pass instead of get the ball into the middle
of the floor to shoot, they started to have the
ball pop around some more and have some of those
better sequences. But the other thing, too, is like, you
want to let the series play out, like there's a
you know, they still got to win two more games
and we'll see how Shaye looks at that point, and
(28:08):
there's more series in the future for them. But this
is the first playoff run in Shaye's entire career where
they are legitimately the championship favorites and all the pressure
is on them, and so far through the seven games
or eight games, he hasn't been very good. But there's
still plenty of basketball left for him to figure it out.
(28:28):
And here they are there two two, they still have
a very good chance to win the series. And so similarly,
with Jason Tatum, like he deserves criticism for the way
that he played during the two games as they drop
down oh two, but the opportunity is still in front
of him to cl out of this, and all we're
gonna do is just cover it game to game. Shay's
been pretty bad. I thought he was pretty bad again tonight.
I thought he made a couple of huge plays late
(28:50):
in this game, which we're gonna credit when it happens,
and if he breaks out and starts playing amazing, we'll
then start discussing it in that context. But we're all
just taking this game to game or we're writing this
story as goes.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, it's sort of the nature. The challenging nature of
the playoffs is how easy it is to overreact from
game to game. Basis like, you're so right that this
series feels like one that is going to go seven.
It certainly, I mean it's guaranteed to go six. It
feels like it's going to go seven, which means we
are barely over half half of the games played. So
one of these two stars who's been struggling, Yoka your Sgay,
maybe we end up with, you know, four consecutive rock
(29:24):
fights to end the series. It's possible, but I would
assume that one of the two superstars is going to
elevate their play and start making some shots, and we'll
be we'll have to rewrite the way where whichever guy
it ends up being, we're gonna have to rewrite the
story in real time.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Absolutely, Like it's the My whole thing is, like just
be consistent with it. Like I think where we go
go into some dangerous territories when you criticize a guy
when he sucks and then don't bring it up at
all when he plays well or vice versa, and like
that's the thing, Like I I have routinely come on
the show and said that I personally have never watched
an offensive basketball player that generates offense easier than Nicoliokich,
(29:59):
Like I I think he's the best offensive player I've
ever watched. He's stunk it up the last three games
and it's been a problem. Like Denver scored eighty seven
points today, Like that's not good enough for a guy
that I considered to be the best offensive player that
I've ever seen. And so like that, that's really my
whole thing that I'll try to do is just try
to be as consistent as possible and try very hard
(30:19):
to not let you know my personal biases get in
the way, even though they naturally will to a certain extent.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Next question, we'll take a couple more. How does Jalen
Williams get out of his slump? It feels like when
he's playing his best, nobody in the West can compete
with the Thunder. I don't even know if he's on
that big of a slump. He had a pretty decent
game last ye Yeah he was.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
He was amazing in Game three outside of overtime, really,
and I don't even blame him for going off the
rails and regulation because Shay just kind of looked him
off and co opted those final couple possessions. But like
as far as as far as today goes like it
was like a steady die at a zone, let me
actually pull up the numbers. I bet you, I bet you.
They ran zone fifty possessions today. But it just zone
(30:59):
is It is such a different responsibility to zone shifts,
the responsibility almost entirely to catch and shoot playing a
players and not they ran forty five possessions of zone today,
forty five possessions and Denver got or Oklahoma City got
just zero point seven to eight points per possession. But
it really just comes down to, like those those guys
(31:21):
at the point of attack, just getting the ball moving,
whereas in man demand situations it's very much about like
setting people up for like play finishing situations and looking
to score. But like, if you try to score on
the ball against the zone, you're gonna have problems. But okay, see,
to their credit ten possessions of zone in the fourth quarter,
they did get one point per possession in the fourth quarter,
so they did slowly start to figure it out over
(31:43):
the course of the game.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Let's do one more one more question and then we'll
go play back. Prenthese is not just about okay, see,
what is the best scheme throughout the NBA that you
have seen at guarding Jokic in his career? And if
and if you had to make a plan for a
single their game, a game seven against Nikola Jokic, how
would you try?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
And so I think Okohama City has shown a really
strong example of how a too big look can work.
And if Denver were to have won this series, which
I don't think they will anymore, I think Minnesota would
have similar capability to do this, and they've shown it
over the years. But the problem is is when you
put a smaller forward, So like let's talk like with
(32:27):
the Lakers series, it was always Ruby Hachimura someone like that, Right,
If you put a Ruby Hachimura on Nikola Jokic and
you have Anthony Davis behind him, you have the rim
protection piece. But it's just so easy for Jokic to
get to his short range shot making against Ruey because
he's so much bigger than Ruey, and so what he
can do is he can just kind of bump Ruy
(32:51):
and get to like little short seven foot shots over
both shoulders and he's gonna make them sixty five percent
of the time. The uniqueness of the Chet Hartenstein partnership
is Chet provides the vertical length that you get from
a center on the back line, but Isaiah Hartenstein provides
the trunky like strength that you get from a center,
(33:15):
And so it's basically like a literal two center. Look
where instead of it being Ruy that's funneling you into
Anthony Davis, it's Isaiah Hartenstein playing Jokic's right hand, so
basically forcing him to drive. So Jokic can't even get
to higher quality short range looks, and they're funneling him
into Chet who's got the length on the back line.
And so I think they just kind of uniquely have
(33:37):
the personnel to put a big, strong player on Jokic
that is not you know, six' nine but is rather seven,
feet but then also having real length behind, him and
then they're swarming and closing out really. Well BUT i
still Think jokic should be able to solve This hartenstein
problem and he needs to just do a better, job
and most of it just comes down to his jump
shots not going in at. All, NOW i do think
(33:59):
that's like the that is specifically different is Just hartenstein
being so big but also having a center behind. Him all, right,
guys that's all we have for today on the YouTube.
Live as, always as sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
me and supporting the. Show we're gonna go over to
playback and hang out for a little. BIT i will
see you guys there. Again that's playback DOT tv Slash hoops.
Tonight what's up. Guys as, ALWAYS i appreciate you for
(34:21):
listening to and Supporting oops. Tonight it would actually be
really helpful for us if you guys would take a
second and leave a rating and a. Review as, ALWAYS
i appreciate you guys supporting, us but if you could
take a minute to do, THAT i really appreciate.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
It the volume
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