Jason reacts live after the Minnesota Timberwolves even the series against the Golden State Warriors. He discusses Anthony Edwards with another off shooting night, Julius Randle's impressive game, Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green playing without Steph Curry, and more.
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Speaker 3 (02:31):
All right, weldo to hoops tonight, you're at the volume.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Happy Thursday, everybody, Oh of allth you guys are having
a great week. Just a quick show tonight. We were
blessed with just one game and it was a game
that was somewhat predictably a blowout as the Minnesota Timberwolves
got a game back on the Golden State Warriors. We
are now one one heading into the Bay. So we're
gonna spend just a few minutes on that game. Then
we're gonna have our Player of the Week section with Microsoft.
(02:56):
Then at the tail end of the show, Jackson and
n word textan earlier today and I got this crazy
hair brained idea for a trade. So we're just gonna
purely for fun, purely in fantasy land of the NBA,
We're going to discuss an idea of a trade involving
the Boston Celtics for this summer as a little teasers.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
You guys owe the job before we get started.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels you don't miss
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Facebook where Jackson's doing some great work, and then keep
dropping mail back questions in those YouTube comments. Also, no
(03:37):
playback tonight. We're gonna take advantage of the earth. This
is our twentieth consecutive live show at night, so I'm
going to take advantage of this opportunity to spend a
little bit of extra time with my wife tonight. But
we do usually go on playback after these live shows.
Make sure you guys head over to playback dot tv
slash Hoops tonight for our playback after show tomorrow night.
(04:01):
But again, no after show tonight. We'll get back into
that tomorrow. So let's talk some basketball and nice bounce back.
When for the Minnesota Timberwolves. I just thought from the
start they were much sharper staying attentive to Golden State's
ball and player movement. The dead giveaways they played him into.
So many of these, like late clock ISOs where you know,
(04:22):
Jackson and I were joking earlier because Jimmy Butler just
seemed to he took a few of them early in
the game, but there were several examples where he was
kind of just passing out of those situations, and it
was you could tell Jimmy kind of was sensing the
moment that it was a game that might be out
of reach, and so it was almost like he was
kind of holding something in reserve. Stan Byan Gundy was
obviously a little bit critical of him about that, but
(04:43):
at the same time, you could feel it. You could
feel this game as being somewhat of a landslide for
Minnesota from the opening tip as they go up thirteen. Oh,
but the dead giveaway, so many of these light ISOs,
whether it's Moses Moody or it's Brandon Pajemski, or it's
Buddy Healed, or whoever it might be, with three seconds
on the shot clock with an elite defender in their
face having to just throw something up. We had shot
(05:06):
clock violations, we had shots that didn't even come close
to the rim. The Timberwolves forced a bunch of turnovers
and kept getting out in transition off of them for
easy ones. It was just a much better defensive performance
from Minnesota. We'll talk a little bit more about that
in a minute, because that's going to be an interesting
trend going through the rest of the series. And then
on offense, Ant is still struggling a bit with just
(05:27):
figuring out how to attack this defense. First of all,
glad to see him come back in the second half.
The way he was limping, I was seriously concerned that
that might have been some kind of like severe high
ankle spraying with the way that Trace Jackson Davis landed
on top of him. But to have him come back
in the second half obviously a good sign. You don't
want to see anybody get hurt, especially in a way
that could have an impact in their ability to even
(05:49):
be available to their team. But he's been sped up
a little bit by Golden State's ball pressure, and he's
definitely going to have to get that a little more
under control as the series progresses into Golden State. It's
a very different kind of series than the Lakers series,
where he was given more space, there wasn't pressure, and
he could kind of like be comfortable as he was
processing the defense. The idea the old game plan with
Golden State is if they can pressure Ant, he'll rush
(06:13):
into drives. And if he rushes into drives, he won't
process the floor quick enough to be able to make
the right reads when he gets downhill, and so it's
gonna be key for Ant to solve that problem over
the course of the series. But everyone else on Minnesota
took a good step forward tonight. A bunch of their
shooters started to get into rhythm. Nas Red Nazrie, Dante
(06:34):
de Vincenzo, Nikile, Alexander Walker, Mike Conley, and Anthony Edwards
all hit multiple threes in this game, which is obviously
a good sign, a good sign after the horrendous shooting
that they put forth in Game five against the Lakers.
In Game one of this series, we saw a little
bit of Jada McDaniels getting back to some of that
weak side scoring that he did in the first round.
Took a little bit of an audacious step back three
(06:56):
over Draymond Green in the left corner that I thought
was kind of funny.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
But other than that, a.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Bunch of these like good, you know, closeout attacks where
he's euroing through a help defender, spinning off of a
guy who's closing out on him, and just hitting those
little short floaters and jump shots that are shots that
we know that he can hit. And then I thought
Julius just had a really nice bounce back game. I
thought he was really bad in Game one and really
started to get his feel out of the post, just
(07:21):
taking simple kickout reads that are there as Golden State
was pinching down on him, doing some scoring in the
middle of the floor. Just a nice step forward for
the Wolves offense, which is gonna be the problem, like
we as we move forward in this series, the job
is all mental for Minnesota. We're heading to Golden State,
(07:42):
and Minnesota fans, if you haven't had a chance to
watch much of Golden State this year, they just have
this level they can get to at home, even without
step on the defensive end of the floor and getting
out in transition and feeding off of the energy of
that crowd. They're gonna be a tough out in the
same way that I kind of kind of like felt
like tonight was going to be a blowout. I think
(08:03):
both Game three and Game four are going to be
dog fights, and those the job from Minnesota on both
ends of the floor is going to be simple. On
the offensive end of the floor, like we talked about,
Anthony Edwards not getting rushed, but him and Julius together
having to process that defense when it's more engaged, when
it's flying around, feeding off the energy of that crowd,
(08:25):
not turning the ball over, not settling for bad threes.
Ants had an issue knifing through the defense and taking
high degree of difficulty layups in traffic that he's missing
at a high clip. But the mental processing piece is
going to be key for them on offense as they
go on the road and then on the defensive end again,
like we talked about, it was a good step forward
for them tonight, but that's same attentiveness to all the
(08:48):
ball in player movement. This is a team that if
you can play them into those lake clock ISOs, cause
again it's not like Golden States planning to take a
lake clock ISO. They're running their motion offense to try
to get you to make a mistake and if you
make a mistake leaving a cutter open or a shooter open,
they're going to take that opportunity, right, But if you
can take away those opportunities in the motion, all of
(09:10):
a sudden, it's like Jimmy Butler's really the only guy
other than maybe Jonathan Kmingo when he's in rhythm, which
we'll talk about. He did seem to build a little
bit of rhythm tonight, But Jimmy Butler's really the only
player that can create his own shot against an elite
defender in that sort of situation, and at this phase
in his career, he's not as good at it as
he used to be. Right, So, like, if you can
(09:32):
be attentive and shut down the motion, you can play
them into late clock. ISO's you got a great chance
to win Game three in Game four on the road,
But if you lose sight of that and you let
Golden State feed on the energy of their crowd and
a couple role players get confident, they will hit open shots.
As you guys know, I mean, that's what happened in
game one after Steph went down. Every time Minnesota made
(09:52):
a mistake, they knocked the shot down and it just
wasn't anything that they were able to regain control of.
You got to play these guys into those misses, and
so it's they have the physical tools necessary to do
the job, but they've got to have the mental focus
and discipline, attention to detail to get it done on
the road. And I do think they need to win
both of those games. I think if they end up
(10:12):
in a scenario where Golden State takes this thing to
two back to Minnesota in Game five, even if you win,
I think Steph Curry's going to come back in that
game on the eighteenth, And as we saw in Game one,
I think this is a tough matchup for Minnesota when
Steph is healthy. Now whether or not he'll be healthy
enough to even be a factor remains to be seen,
(10:33):
but I think Minnesota needs to be going to the
Bay with the goal of trying to win both of
those games. Now on the Golden State front, we talked
about this last night in playback. We talked about it
two nights ago after Game one, but we viewed this
game too as basically a game that Minnesota was going
to win and was going to win by a lot.
It's just the combination of a bunch of factors. We
(10:54):
talked about this last night with Oklahoma City versus Denver.
On the one hand, your road team is a veteran
team that already stole home court advantage, So there's such
a natural pullback in terms of effort, focus, and energy
because you know you're going home with home court advantage.
We just saw that with Denver last night with Oka See. Also,
just like Oka See, Minnesota is a damn good basketball team,
(11:17):
a damn good basketball team led by really good players,
so like they got the talent to have a bounce
back the game. It's also an absolute must win. Unlike
the Boston series, Boston is arguably more comfortable on the
road than they are at home. Unlike the Boston series,
Minnesota could not afford to go down Oh too. It
(11:38):
was like an absolute must win type of game for
a great team against a veteran team that had already
taken home court. There was a natural pullback that was
gonna happen. And so one of the things we talked
a lot about over the course of the last two
days was how can the Warriors get some sort of
positive progress out of this type of game that's going
to be so difficult to win, and the key was
(12:02):
a couple things we talked about giving Jonathan kaminga long leash.
Now we discussed it more within the context of him
being in the starting lineup. Wasn't in the starting lineup tonight,
but he did get twenty six minutes and got plenty
of opportunity to create his own offense, and he scored
eighteen points on eleven shots. We'll zoom in on that
in just a minute. But the second piece of it
was digging way deep in the rotation and giving a
(12:24):
ton of guys opportunity. Right, Steve Kerr ends up playing
let me count.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
This is.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen different players tonight. So Steve
Kerk gave everyone a chance just to see, Like, Steve's
got to rebuild a basketball team on the fly here, right,
Like what works with Steph is different than what's going
to work without Steph. And so Steve Kerr, in a
lot of ways, has to come up with a completely
different way to win basketball games from scratch here on
(12:52):
the fly. And so he used Game two as an
opportunity to test a lot of things out. A simple
thing after the thirteen to zero run Quentin Post gets
the hook goes to Tray Jackson Davis. Tray Jackson Davis
was impactful in this game. His athleticism pop fifteen points
and six rebounds was really providing some of that rim
pressure at a ball screen action, just rolling hard to
the rim and getting vertical. As much as Quinton Posts
(13:15):
is a very good player, we've joked on the show,
he can't jump over a a phone book. He's not
exactly the most athletic dude in the world, Tray Jackson
Davis brings some of that vertical pop. I thought that
that was a kind of like a useful little bit
of information that came out of this game. And then
the second piece of it was Jonathan Kaminga had a
little bit of success in face up situations and ISOs
(13:35):
got comfortable as a catch and shoot player. Hitting another
corner three. The one he missed in the fourth quarter
two I thought was pretty close. He looked like he
was in good rhythm there. Diggy hit his first eight
shots in this game. He just started to build some
of that rhythm. Why that matters is because in those
games in Golden State, I think in order to win
one of them or let's put it this way, you
(13:55):
give yourself a good chance to win one of them
if in one of those two games, Jonathan Kaminga had
as a twenty twenty two point night, and I think
that he was in such a funk coming into this
that tonight was the perfect opportunity to just give him
a long leash and just see what he can put
together in terms of rhythm building towards Game three and
Game four. Again, like I said, with Minnesota on the
(14:16):
Golden State front, the goal needs to be like obviously
the goals to win both games, but if you can
get one game in Golden State and you can send
it back to Minnesota too too, you guarantee that you're
playing on the eighteenth, And if you're playing on the eighteenth,
I think there's a decent chance that Steph Curry comes
back and plays and gives you a chance to win
the series. If you win both, obviously you're in fantastic position.
(14:39):
But if you can win one of those games, you
give Steph Curry the chance to return in twelve days.
All right, Welcome to course correction brought to you by Microsoft.
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(15:22):
we saw the best playoff performance that I've seen since
Steph Curry scored forty three points on the Boston Celtics
in the twenty twenty two Finals in Game one against
the Thunder, just two nights after he led his team
to a victory in Game seven against the Clippers on
the road against one of the best statistical performing defenses
(15:44):
in the history of the NBA, against the team that
had already won seventy two games in this season sixty
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sweep in the first round, he goes for forty two points,
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in the fourth quarter, he walked the thunder down, just
(16:05):
dominating in the middle of the flour. He had eighteen
points just in that fourth quarter, keeping the Nuggets in
striking distance so that they could have a chance to
win the game.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Late.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Hit several big shots late, a hook shot over Alex Crusoe,
a driving foul that got to the line, a huge
three that cut the lead to one over Isaiah Hartenstein
using like kind of a jab step sequence, ultimately ending
the game with an Aaron Gordon game winning three in
transition off the left wing to steal game one and
get home court advantage for the Denver Nuggets. One of
(16:35):
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(16:57):
you need a singular force of nature who can transcend
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for giving us another one of those. They're rare and
I always really appreciate them when they come around. That's
(17:19):
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dot com slash challengers to learn more. All right, so
(17:40):
here's the deal. I'm gonna bring Jackson on stage because
he's our resident Celtics fan as well in addition to
being very important to the process of this show. But
Jackson and I were texting earlier today and I want
to This is a disclaimer upfront. Okay, this trade's not
going to happen. It's unlikely for a variety of reasons,
(18:02):
but I want to talk about it because it's fun.
We have some time, and after a boring game like that,
it's nice to have a little just to get into
fantasy land a little bit.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
So here's the deal.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I pitched the idea to Jackson today. If your GM
of the Celtics, or excuse me, if you're a GM
of the Bucks. Actually no, we'll call it the Celtics.
Your GM of the Celtics. Bucks call you and they
offer Giannis for Jason Tatum. Do you say yes or no?
Now before I want to make the case. I'm going
to make the case again. Disclaimer, this is just for
(18:37):
fun and primarily meant as a thought exercise. Okay, here's
the case. It's being widely reported that the Celtics are
going to start finding ways to cut payroll as soon
as this summer. In this theoretical scenario, the Celtics have
just again this is important context here this. I'm only
pitching this in the event that the Celtics lose to
the Knicks. So they lose to the Knicks. The reason
(19:00):
why in this hypothetical scenario, Okay, so the Celtics have
just lost the series as a minus eight hundred favorite,
literally because their stars shit the bet. So the premise
would be that the Celtics roster would lose a decent
amount of talent as part of the cost cutting, and
they would suddenly drop to a second tier contender because
(19:21):
their stars aren't good enough to lift that roster, so
they wouldn't be really good enough to compete anymore. Another
way to reframe the situation is, this is a very
short window of contention for the Celtics. Maybe next year,
maybe the following year. Giannis is a much better basketball
player than Jason Tatum and has developed into an excellent
passer this phase in his career. You'd be surrounding him
(19:42):
with a roster that fits his skill set super well.
He's the kind of player who could capitalize on that
short window to get you a second championship. Presumably he
could still win even if they lost two of their
core five. So let's say they lose Drew Holliday and
krisops Porzingis. Those are the two guys that they look
to shed salary. You still have Giannis, Derek White, Jalen Brown,
(20:05):
Horford probably comes back on a minimum. You have Hawser Pritchard,
Luke Cornett. You still have like a solid rotation around him.
Then in two years, when Jannis is thirty two years old,
if he loses the juice and the roster isn't good enough,
you can still flip you honest to another team to
restock your asset trope. Case for Milwaukee really simple. Tatum
has literally four years and an option after this season,
(20:28):
and he just turned twenty seven. You can rebuild around him,
and you probably could get a couple draft picks out
of Boston in the deal that you can flip to
help improve your role player talent. So essentially, for Milwaukee,
it's a bet on Tatum's future, and for Boston it's
a bet on this current roster just needing better play
from the star. So Jackson, in this hypothetical scenario, you're
(20:49):
the GM of the Celtics, they offer Giannis for Tatum,
what are you saying?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
It's a really galaxy brain idea. And I am trying
to not forget about the connection to the city element
after we just saw what Niko Harrison did shipping off
Luka Doncic. However, I do think in this hypothetically, it
would be a little bit different because of how sour
it would feel to lose to the Knicks in this fashion.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Right coming off for the Mavericks.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Yeah, you lost in the finals, but you got to
the finals with Luka Doncich. It felt specifically kind of
buziz you're and they were under if you're losing in
four or five games to the Knicks in the series,
that you were heavy, heavy, heavy favorites. People are I
saw someone say on Twitter today, is this would be
the kind of thing that results in people getting fired
or people getting traded, right, And that's and I think
(21:39):
that's totally a valid take. What are people expecting Jason
Tatum to be traded?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
I don't think so. But if someone was like, we need.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
To fire Joe Mizzoula after this, I would not agree,
but I would be I would understand the thought behind it, right,
So I I do think if you lose this series,
especially if it's in four or five games. I don't
think it's before, but if it's in five games, it
makes sense to make a little bit of a shakeup.
It's hard to run that back after this way the
series has looked, at least through two games, trading Tatum
(22:06):
for Yannis though, that is a crazy idea, and I
don't I don't hate it. Of all the if you're
gonna offload one of your two stars, I don't want
to in the if they're gonna shake things up this summer,
which they're probably going to payroll. We're if they lose
to the Knicks in a weird way, you're probably making
some sort of significant trade. If if you're saying you're
(22:29):
gonna trade one of a major shakeup, if you're expecting
a major, major shakeup for the Celtics, like getting Giannis
is the best case scenario for a major shakeup. So
in that sense, I don't hate it, and I think
you're actually absolutely right that it's even with the departure
of whoever drew Howaday, Kristaps won or both of those
guys for salary purposes, it's still a close to perfectly
(22:52):
designed roster for around Yanni's much better than I would
even argue the championship level the Championshi Bucks roster, Like
he's never played with the player as good as Joan Brown.
He's never played with the player even as close as
good as Joe Brown, frankly.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Or defenders that could shoot as well as the defenders
can shoot right.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Exactly, And you're really surrounding him with.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
A lot of shooting talent, a lot of versatility if
you if you plug him into this roster.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
So it's not the I don't hate it, it would
it would be the kind of it would.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Be one of the few trades that could top the
shock waves created by the Luca Doctors trade, you know
what I mean, Like it's one. It would be one
of the craziest trades. It would be up there with
the the kd summer and the Kawhi summer.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Is maybe even bigger than both of those. Man, maybe
not bigger than Katie, but I think it's probably bigger
than Kawhi of the Clippers summer.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
If you're ranking you know, early July moves, as there
have been many, as there's been some some bombs over
the course of the last you know, ten years, it's it's.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Kind of breaking my brain a little bit.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
But of all the the ultimate ultimately my answer is
if of all all the major shakeups that would you know,
be pitched and be potentially required in a in a
summer after you lose an ugly ugly, Ugly ugly series
where Jayson Tatum is not good, it would be probably
the best case scenario.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I'm glad that you mentioned the the just the mood
that would be surrounding the team, because that's the important
part of this, like Tatum would in this hypothetical scenario
at age twenty six and age twenty seven, which is
typically the age where stars figure it out, would have
a playoff run where he was very important in them
(24:36):
winning the title, but two playoff runs where he operated well.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Below that of a top tier superstar.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And essentially, like when you have a payroll like what
they had, it's almost like championship or bust in a
lot of ways. And I almost look at it like
the there's like a certain amount of urgency to capitalize
on this window because like, let's take a look at
like what the scenario would look like if Tatum did
not get traded. So Tatum doesn't get traded, you you
(25:08):
drop a couple of bodies. Let's call it porzingis, And like,
let's call it porzingis in Holiday, just as an example,
even if they just get rid of porzingis, okay, they
just get rid of porzingis. Horford's a year older, Drew
Hollidays a year older, Derek White's a year older. Are
though Derek White, Tatum, and Brown are still firmly in
their prime. So in this scenario, like you are a
(25:31):
less talented version of this year's team that just got
eliminated in the second round in embarrassing fashion. So in
that scenario, like you look forward and it's like, actually,
they're completely hamstrung other than draft picks. They have draft picks,
but they don't have any like free agent flexibility at all.
You're in this situation where you have to ask yourself,
(25:52):
like Cleveland is going to get better as Evan Mobley
gets better, and as Darius Garland gets better, and as
Jared Allen gets better. You look at the East and
it's like all the sudd the Pistons are looking a
little bit frisky as a team that could be a
problem in the East. The Pacers right now are playing
at extremely high level. You have the thunder who are
going to keep getting better. You have Wemby and Darren
(26:12):
Fox and who knows what else they're going to do
this summer. Houston could make a trade for Kevin Durant.
Like the teams around you would be getting better while
your team would be getting worse and we would have
just seen them not be good enough. And so then
you ask yourself, like, Okay, now Tatum's twenty eight to
twenty nine years old, are you even close to good
enough to win the title with your roster that you had.
(26:35):
And that's where I think it gets fascinating. Essentially, what
you're saying is like this roster is destined to some
form of blow up anyway like Tatum as like like
in this hypothetical where he's, you know, had these two
kind of somewhat disappointing playoff runs, he.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Would literally be.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
A player that you would look at as not like
you would need to surround him with an enormous amount
of talent for him to win, right. And so with
that being the case, Giannis is the type of superstar
talent that can lift up a roster that's just another
great roster and make it into a championship worthy roster.
And so I think it just kind of like makes
some sense on that level. But again, I think I
(27:14):
think the part, the part you mentioned about the human
element is real, Like I just don't think Boston would
do that to Tatum. But yeah, if he throws a
couple of stinkers down.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
There, yeah, I mean, it could get real.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
The Discords is gonna get real ugly if they if
he has a even if they lose in if they
lose in five and he starts playing better, It's like, Okay, get.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
In the lab, you know, come back, come back better
next summer.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
That's but if if he has well, if he doesn't
have a great game the rest of the series, or
even if he just has three mediocre games and they
and they lose in five, if the discourse is gonna
get quite ugly.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
The discords is getting quite ugly.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
I I was briefly checking out the I was like, okay,
maybe there's a way to include Kristaps in a deal.
So you're shedding some salary in the same trade. What
can we you want obviously want to give up more
salary and you're getting back, but is there anyone useful
on the bucks you can get back? And guess what
the answer is, No, that roster sucks. Their roster sucks.
Most of their roster's on one year deals. It's like
I was like, oh, aj Green's okay, Okay, he's two
(28:12):
million dollars, Like maybe that's Aj Green to make a
great making great Like I don't really want Kyle Kuzma
brooks on on the last year of his deal. Bobby
portois Uh, I think he actually know he could be traded,
but like somebody portis is okay, I suppose you could
take back Bobby.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Ports, but it's pretty bleak in terms.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Of the buck situation, which we knew that obviously, that's
why they're going to blow it up this summer, but
it's I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Know, well in a poor zingistrait too. In a theoretical
cost cutting move, they would look to move him to
a team with cap space so they didn't have to
take salary back and uh so like but that's that's
my point though, is like, if Boston's gonna be in
a substantial cost cutting like position, you have to have
a serious conversation with yourself about whether or not Tatum
is going to be good enough.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
Yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
I think the counter for and the rationalization for me
as a Celtic span and the counter for most Healthics
fans is the point you're making about the age of
the two superstars. They are entering TAM's gonna be twenty
seven next year, Jalenn Brown's gonna be twenty eight next year.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
They are entering.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
The theoretical, theoretically the best part of their basketball career,
and like not, and they're not.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Thirty or thirty one. Like they got.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Theoretically, you're entering a four to five year prime window,
as these stars seem to be keeping up that highly
elite level at like thirty two thirty three these days,
So you're entering a four to five year elite elite
window where you got. Where the hope would be those
guys continue to get better, even if it's marginally better.
You're not expecting a giant leap at this point in
need of their careers. But if they're gonna get a
(29:45):
little bit better each of them over the summer, you're
hoping that can make up for any of the the
talent drop you're getting that you're gonna have to make
reportedly in a cost cutting move this summer.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
The thing that would scare me with that is, yes,
players do get better in that twenty seven to thirty
two range, but they tend to get better at the
expense of some athleticism. It's usually in that like twenty
five twenty six range that you're moving really well. I mean,
I already saw I saw video today of like young
(30:16):
Tatum like he was.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
He's a lot less explosive than he used to be
even back then.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And is Tatum a good enough shot maker to do
this at a lower level of athleticism, and that arguably
has been the thing that he's never been able to
figure out. And so like there's it happens a lot
in Like I keep thinking about the comment that Matthew
had on playback a couple like three four nights ago,
(30:42):
where he just was like he basically was just saying
Tatum streaky, and like he's like he's, yeah, yeah, he
can be hot from three, but he can just as
easily be cold. And so that's where it gets triggy.
But I I and the point you're making is fair
in the sense that, like if you just bet on
Tatum and Brown progressing year over year, but is it
enough to make up for a substantial and loss and
(31:03):
roster talent. The last thing I'll say about it is
Joannis is thirty, Like you can easily get three great
years out of him and then pivot, you know. But uh,
but yeah, it's a fascinating concept. And I, for the record,
I'm still in the like gun to my head. If
you asked me who's gonna win the Celtics Knicks series,
(31:24):
I think I'd still I think I would too.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I think I would too. It's this.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
We've seen a lot of ups and downs from this,
you know era of the Jason Tatum, Joon Brown playoff.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
Era, and more often than not, someone said this.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
On playback, maybe it was Mike uh that more often
than not, And it's true the regular season as well.
They are they play well when they're backs against the wall.
They respond when versus well. They do not respond to
success well. They when they're when it seems like there
might be a little bit overconfident, it crumbles quickly. But
they have yet to lose three times in a row
this season. They're gonna try to keep that streak alive.
(32:00):
Tomorrow Tomorrow, right, No, Saturday, actually Saturday, actually.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Actually, yeah, they gotta sit with that lost.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
So I do think that the series, like I was saying,
if they lose in four or five, I think it's
gonna go at least six. If I if I was betting,
I would I would.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
Say it's at least six. So in that sense, anything
can happen.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, I uh, I would be shocked if they didn't
win one in New York, and then I would be
shocked if they didn't win Game five. But like, yeah,
if New York wins it feels like they're gonna win
in six, but yeah, I I it still feels very
open ended for me. It's just the hardest thing is
like they're right there. They're right there, even with the
(32:43):
twenty point leads. It's like, you get a stop on
Jylen Brunson, you win game one, you're a game two.
Game Game one literally goes to overtime. So like, yeah,
it's still it's still right there. I just have been
I've been just fascinated with the concept. I've been fascinated
with the concept because we haven't really seen anything like
this in NBA history, not in a very long time,
and so it's like I was trying to think, like
(33:04):
I think this would probably be the worst playoff loss,
like factoring in Superstar play, like since Lebron in twenty eleven. Probably,
But it's it's a different it's a little bit of
a different vibe because Lebron Lebron. No one was gonna
bail on Lebron, because that one series kind of stands
(33:26):
out as like a blip among like mostly playoff greatness,
you know, but with Tatum, there are just so many
of these kinds of examples, and then to have two
in a row, right in the heart of his prime.
I think it would be it would be weird, but
we're gonna see what happens, and it is. It was
just kind of a little fun thought exercise with a
relatively boring night around the NBA. That's all we have
for tonight, guys. No playback again tonight, but we'll be
(33:49):
back on playback tomorrow night. No film session tomorrow morning either,
so we're gonna take a little break. We will be
live tomorrow night after the final buzzer of Game three
thunder Nuggets. Very excited for that game. We'll see you guys.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Then. What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
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Speaker 3 (02:31):
All right, weldo to hoops tonight, you're at the volume.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Happy Thursday, everybody, Oh of allth you guys are having
a great week. Just a quick show tonight. We were
blessed with just one game and it was a game
that was somewhat predictably a blowout as the Minnesota Timberwolves
got a game back on the Golden State Warriors. We
are now one one heading into the Bay. So we're
gonna spend just a few minutes on that game. Then
we're gonna have our Player of the Week section with Microsoft.
(02:56):
Then at the tail end of the show, Jackson and
n word textan earlier today and I got this crazy
hair brained idea for a trade. So we're just gonna
purely for fun, purely in fantasy land of the NBA,
We're going to discuss an idea of a trade involving
the Boston Celtics for this summer as a little teasers.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
You guys owe the job before we get started.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels you don't miss
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(03:37):
playback tonight. We're gonna take advantage of the earth. This
is our twentieth consecutive live show at night, so I'm
going to take advantage of this opportunity to spend a
little bit of extra time with my wife tonight. But
we do usually go on playback after these live shows.
Make sure you guys head over to playback dot tv
slash Hoops tonight for our playback after show tomorrow night.
(04:01):
But again, no after show tonight. We'll get back into
that tomorrow. So let's talk some basketball and nice bounce back.
When for the Minnesota Timberwolves. I just thought from the
start they were much sharper staying attentive to Golden State's
ball and player movement. The dead giveaways they played him into.
So many of these, like late clock ISOs where you know,
(04:22):
Jackson and I were joking earlier because Jimmy Butler just
seemed to he took a few of them early in
the game, but there were several examples where he was
kind of just passing out of those situations, and it
was you could tell Jimmy kind of was sensing the
moment that it was a game that might be out
of reach, and so it was almost like he was
kind of holding something in reserve. Stan Byan Gundy was
obviously a little bit critical of him about that, but
(04:43):
at the same time, you could feel it. You could
feel this game as being somewhat of a landslide for
Minnesota from the opening tip as they go up thirteen. Oh,
but the dead giveaway, so many of these light ISOs,
whether it's Moses Moody or it's Brandon Pajemski, or it's
Buddy Healed, or whoever it might be, with three seconds
on the shot clock with an elite defender in their
face having to just throw something up. We had shot
(05:06):
clock violations, we had shots that didn't even come close
to the rim. The Timberwolves forced a bunch of turnovers
and kept getting out in transition off of them for
easy ones. It was just a much better defensive performance
from Minnesota. We'll talk a little bit more about that
in a minute, because that's going to be an interesting
trend going through the rest of the series. And then
on offense, Ant is still struggling a bit with just
(05:27):
figuring out how to attack this defense. First of all,
glad to see him come back in the second half.
The way he was limping, I was seriously concerned that
that might have been some kind of like severe high
ankle spraying with the way that Trace Jackson Davis landed
on top of him. But to have him come back
in the second half obviously a good sign. You don't
want to see anybody get hurt, especially in a way
that could have an impact in their ability to even
(05:49):
be available to their team. But he's been sped up
a little bit by Golden State's ball pressure, and he's
definitely going to have to get that a little more
under control as the series progresses into Golden State. It's
a very different kind of series than the Lakers series,
where he was given more space, there wasn't pressure, and
he could kind of like be comfortable as he was
processing the defense. The idea the old game plan with
Golden State is if they can pressure Ant, he'll rush
(06:13):
into drives. And if he rushes into drives, he won't
process the floor quick enough to be able to make
the right reads when he gets downhill, and so it's
gonna be key for Ant to solve that problem over
the course of the series. But everyone else on Minnesota
took a good step forward tonight. A bunch of their
shooters started to get into rhythm. Nas Red Nazrie, Dante
(06:34):
de Vincenzo, Nikile, Alexander Walker, Mike Conley, and Anthony Edwards
all hit multiple threes in this game, which is obviously
a good sign, a good sign after the horrendous shooting
that they put forth in Game five against the Lakers.
In Game one of this series, we saw a little
bit of Jada McDaniels getting back to some of that
weak side scoring that he did in the first round.
Took a little bit of an audacious step back three
(06:56):
over Draymond Green in the left corner that I thought
was kind of funny.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
But other than that, a.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Bunch of these like good, you know, closeout attacks where
he's euroing through a help defender, spinning off of a
guy who's closing out on him, and just hitting those
little short floaters and jump shots that are shots that
we know that he can hit. And then I thought
Julius just had a really nice bounce back game. I
thought he was really bad in Game one and really
started to get his feel out of the post, just
(07:21):
taking simple kickout reads that are there as Golden State
was pinching down on him, doing some scoring in the
middle of the floor. Just a nice step forward for
the Wolves offense, which is gonna be the problem, like
we as we move forward in this series, the job
is all mental for Minnesota. We're heading to Golden State,
(07:42):
and Minnesota fans, if you haven't had a chance to
watch much of Golden State this year, they just have
this level they can get to at home, even without
step on the defensive end of the floor and getting
out in transition and feeding off of the energy of
that crowd. They're gonna be a tough out in the
same way that I kind of kind of like felt
like tonight was going to be a blowout. I think
(08:03):
both Game three and Game four are going to be
dog fights, and those the job from Minnesota on both
ends of the floor is going to be simple. On
the offensive end of the floor, like we talked about,
Anthony Edwards not getting rushed, but him and Julius together
having to process that defense when it's more engaged, when
it's flying around, feeding off the energy of that crowd,
(08:25):
not turning the ball over, not settling for bad threes.
Ants had an issue knifing through the defense and taking
high degree of difficulty layups in traffic that he's missing
at a high clip. But the mental processing piece is
going to be key for them on offense as they
go on the road and then on the defensive end again,
like we talked about, it was a good step forward
for them tonight, but that's same attentiveness to all the
(08:48):
ball in player movement. This is a team that if
you can play them into those lake clock ISOs, cause
again it's not like Golden States planning to take a
lake clock ISO. They're running their motion offense to try
to get you to make a mistake and if you
make a mistake leaving a cutter open or a shooter open,
they're going to take that opportunity, right, But if you
can take away those opportunities in the motion, all of
(09:10):
a sudden, it's like Jimmy Butler's really the only guy
other than maybe Jonathan Kmingo when he's in rhythm, which
we'll talk about. He did seem to build a little
bit of rhythm tonight, But Jimmy Butler's really the only
player that can create his own shot against an elite
defender in that sort of situation, and at this phase
in his career, he's not as good at it as
he used to be. Right, So, like, if you can
(09:32):
be attentive and shut down the motion, you can play
them into late clock. ISO's you got a great chance
to win Game three in Game four on the road,
But if you lose sight of that and you let
Golden State feed on the energy of their crowd and
a couple role players get confident, they will hit open shots.
As you guys know, I mean, that's what happened in
game one after Steph went down. Every time Minnesota made
(09:52):
a mistake, they knocked the shot down and it just
wasn't anything that they were able to regain control of.
You got to play these guys into those misses, and
so it's they have the physical tools necessary to do
the job, but they've got to have the mental focus
and discipline, attention to detail to get it done on
the road. And I do think they need to win
both of those games. I think if they end up
(10:12):
in a scenario where Golden State takes this thing to
two back to Minnesota in Game five, even if you win,
I think Steph Curry's going to come back in that
game on the eighteenth, And as we saw in Game one,
I think this is a tough matchup for Minnesota when
Steph is healthy. Now whether or not he'll be healthy
enough to even be a factor remains to be seen,
(10:33):
but I think Minnesota needs to be going to the
Bay with the goal of trying to win both of
those games. Now on the Golden State front, we talked
about this last night in playback. We talked about it
two nights ago after Game one, but we viewed this
game too as basically a game that Minnesota was going
to win and was going to win by a lot.
It's just the combination of a bunch of factors. We
(10:54):
talked about this last night with Oklahoma City versus Denver.
On the one hand, your road team is a veteran
team that already stole home court advantage, So there's such
a natural pullback in terms of effort, focus, and energy
because you know you're going home with home court advantage.
We just saw that with Denver last night with Oka See. Also,
just like Oka See, Minnesota is a damn good basketball team,
(11:17):
a damn good basketball team led by really good players,
so like they got the talent to have a bounce
back the game. It's also an absolute must win. Unlike
the Boston series, Boston is arguably more comfortable on the
road than they are at home. Unlike the Boston series,
Minnesota could not afford to go down Oh too. It
(11:38):
was like an absolute must win type of game for
a great team against a veteran team that had already
taken home court. There was a natural pullback that was
gonna happen. And so one of the things we talked
a lot about over the course of the last two
days was how can the Warriors get some sort of
positive progress out of this type of game that's going
to be so difficult to win, and the key was
(12:02):
a couple things we talked about giving Jonathan kaminga long leash.
Now we discussed it more within the context of him
being in the starting lineup. Wasn't in the starting lineup tonight,
but he did get twenty six minutes and got plenty
of opportunity to create his own offense, and he scored
eighteen points on eleven shots. We'll zoom in on that
in just a minute. But the second piece of it
was digging way deep in the rotation and giving a
(12:24):
ton of guys opportunity. Right, Steve Kerr ends up playing
let me count.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
This is.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen different players tonight. So Steve
Kerk gave everyone a chance just to see, Like, Steve's
got to rebuild a basketball team on the fly here, right,
Like what works with Steph is different than what's going
to work without Steph. And so Steve Kerr, in a
lot of ways, has to come up with a completely
different way to win basketball games from scratch here on
(12:52):
the fly. And so he used Game two as an
opportunity to test a lot of things out. A simple
thing after the thirteen to zero run Quentin Post gets
the hook goes to Tray Jackson Davis. Tray Jackson Davis
was impactful in this game. His athleticism pop fifteen points
and six rebounds was really providing some of that rim
pressure at a ball screen action, just rolling hard to
the rim and getting vertical. As much as Quinton Posts
(13:15):
is a very good player, we've joked on the show,
he can't jump over a a phone book. He's not
exactly the most athletic dude in the world, Tray Jackson
Davis brings some of that vertical pop. I thought that
that was a kind of like a useful little bit
of information that came out of this game. And then
the second piece of it was Jonathan Kaminga had a
little bit of success in face up situations and ISOs
(13:35):
got comfortable as a catch and shoot player. Hitting another
corner three. The one he missed in the fourth quarter
two I thought was pretty close. He looked like he
was in good rhythm there. Diggy hit his first eight
shots in this game. He just started to build some
of that rhythm. Why that matters is because in those
games in Golden State, I think in order to win
one of them or let's put it this way, you
(13:55):
give yourself a good chance to win one of them
if in one of those two games, Jonathan Kaminga had
as a twenty twenty two point night, and I think
that he was in such a funk coming into this
that tonight was the perfect opportunity to just give him
a long leash and just see what he can put
together in terms of rhythm building towards Game three and
Game four. Again, like I said, with Minnesota on the
(14:16):
Golden State front, the goal needs to be like obviously
the goals to win both games, but if you can
get one game in Golden State and you can send
it back to Minnesota too too, you guarantee that you're
playing on the eighteenth, And if you're playing on the eighteenth,
I think there's a decent chance that Steph Curry comes
back and plays and gives you a chance to win
the series. If you win both, obviously you're in fantastic position.
(14:39):
But if you can win one of those games, you
give Steph Curry the chance to return in twelve days.
All right, Welcome to course correction brought to you by Microsoft.
Just like star players and teams navigating performance hurtles, business
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They must rise to the occasion, turning challenges into opportunities.
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and data management and trustworthy responsible AI. And when you're
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Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise
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(15:22):
we saw the best playoff performance that I've seen since
Steph Curry scored forty three points on the Boston Celtics
in the twenty twenty two Finals in Game one against
the Thunder, just two nights after he led his team
to a victory in Game seven against the Clippers on
the road against one of the best statistical performing defenses
(15:44):
in the history of the NBA, against the team that
had already won seventy two games in this season sixty
eight in the regular season, in the four to zh
sweep in the first round, he goes for forty two points,
twenty two rebounds, six assists, a steal in two bl
in the fourth quarter, he walked the thunder down, just
(16:05):
dominating in the middle of the flour. He had eighteen
points just in that fourth quarter, keeping the Nuggets in
striking distance so that they could have a chance to
win the game.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Late.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Hit several big shots late, a hook shot over Alex Crusoe,
a driving foul that got to the line, a huge
three that cut the lead to one over Isaiah Hartenstein
using like kind of a jab step sequence, ultimately ending
the game with an Aaron Gordon game winning three in
transition off the left wing to steal game one and
get home court advantage for the Denver Nuggets. One of
(16:35):
my favorite things about basketball is the ability of a
star player to transcend surrounding circumstances. Yes, it's a team sport.
Basketball is beautiful when it's flowing, but in the most
intense moments, defenses, especially defenses as good as Okasee, can
reach a level where that flow is basically impossible, and
(16:57):
you need a singular force of nature who can transcend
that environment because he has a superpower. These are the
moments when you see a superstar, dig deep and reach
that special level that lead to some of my favorite
moments in NBA history. So shout out to NICOLEA. Jokis
for giving us another one of those. They're rare and
I always really appreciate them when they come around. That's
(17:19):
it for this week's course correction. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions
empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions,
sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. Microsoft
is your trusted partner. You can navigate your journey with confidence,
finding innovation, innovative solutions, and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft
dot com slash challengers to learn more. All right, so
(17:40):
here's the deal. I'm gonna bring Jackson on stage because
he's our resident Celtics fan as well in addition to
being very important to the process of this show. But
Jackson and I were texting earlier today and I want
to This is a disclaimer upfront. Okay, this trade's not
going to happen. It's unlikely for a variety of reasons,
(18:02):
but I want to talk about it because it's fun.
We have some time, and after a boring game like that,
it's nice to have a little just to get into
fantasy land a little bit.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
So here's the deal.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I pitched the idea to Jackson today. If your GM
of the Celtics, or excuse me, if you're a GM
of the Bucks. Actually no, we'll call it the Celtics.
Your GM of the Celtics. Bucks call you and they
offer Giannis for Jason Tatum. Do you say yes or no?
Now before I want to make the case. I'm going
to make the case again. Disclaimer, this is just for
(18:37):
fun and primarily meant as a thought exercise. Okay, here's
the case. It's being widely reported that the Celtics are
going to start finding ways to cut payroll as soon
as this summer. In this theoretical scenario, the Celtics have
just again this is important context here this. I'm only
pitching this in the event that the Celtics lose to
the Knicks. So they lose to the Knicks. The reason
(19:00):
why in this hypothetical scenario, Okay, so the Celtics have
just lost the series as a minus eight hundred favorite,
literally because their stars shit the bet. So the premise
would be that the Celtics roster would lose a decent
amount of talent as part of the cost cutting, and
they would suddenly drop to a second tier contender because
(19:21):
their stars aren't good enough to lift that roster, so
they wouldn't be really good enough to compete anymore. Another
way to reframe the situation is, this is a very
short window of contention for the Celtics. Maybe next year,
maybe the following year. Giannis is a much better basketball
player than Jason Tatum and has developed into an excellent
passer this phase in his career. You'd be surrounding him
(19:42):
with a roster that fits his skill set super well.
He's the kind of player who could capitalize on that
short window to get you a second championship. Presumably he
could still win even if they lost two of their
core five. So let's say they lose Drew Holliday and
krisops Porzingis. Those are the two guys that they look
to shed salary. You still have Giannis, Derek White, Jalen Brown,
(20:05):
Horford probably comes back on a minimum. You have Hawser Pritchard,
Luke Cornett. You still have like a solid rotation around him.
Then in two years, when Jannis is thirty two years old,
if he loses the juice and the roster isn't good enough,
you can still flip you honest to another team to
restock your asset trope. Case for Milwaukee really simple. Tatum
has literally four years and an option after this season,
(20:28):
and he just turned twenty seven. You can rebuild around him,
and you probably could get a couple draft picks out
of Boston in the deal that you can flip to
help improve your role player talent. So essentially, for Milwaukee,
it's a bet on Tatum's future, and for Boston it's
a bet on this current roster just needing better play
from the star. So Jackson, in this hypothetical scenario, you're
(20:49):
the GM of the Celtics, they offer Giannis for Tatum,
what are you saying?
Speaker 4 (20:55):
It's a really galaxy brain idea. And I am trying
to not forget about the connection to the city element
after we just saw what Niko Harrison did shipping off
Luka Doncic. However, I do think in this hypothetically, it
would be a little bit different because of how sour
it would feel to lose to the Knicks in this fashion.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Right coming off for the Mavericks.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Yeah, you lost in the finals, but you got to
the finals with Luka Doncich. It felt specifically kind of
buziz you're and they were under if you're losing in
four or five games to the Knicks in the series,
that you were heavy, heavy, heavy favorites. People are I
saw someone say on Twitter today, is this would be
the kind of thing that results in people getting fired
or people getting traded, right, And that's and I think
(21:39):
that's totally a valid take. What are people expecting Jason
Tatum to be traded?
Speaker 5 (21:43):
I don't think so. But if someone was like, we need.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
To fire Joe Mizzoula after this, I would not agree,
but I would be I would understand the thought behind it, right,
So I I do think if you lose this series,
especially if it's in four or five games. I don't
think it's before, but if it's in five games, it
makes sense to make a little bit of a shakeup.
It's hard to run that back after this way the
series has looked, at least through two games, trading Tatum
(22:06):
for Yannis though, that is a crazy idea, and I
don't I don't hate it. Of all the if you're
gonna offload one of your two stars, I don't want
to in the if they're gonna shake things up this summer,
which they're probably going to payroll. We're if they lose
to the Knicks in a weird way, you're probably making
some sort of significant trade. If if you're saying you're
(22:29):
gonna trade one of a major shakeup, if you're expecting
a major, major shakeup for the Celtics, like getting Giannis
is the best case scenario for a major shakeup. So
in that sense, I don't hate it, and I think
you're actually absolutely right that it's even with the departure
of whoever drew Howaday, Kristaps won or both of those
guys for salary purposes, it's still a close to perfectly
(22:52):
designed roster for around Yanni's much better than I would
even argue the championship level the Championshi Bucks roster, Like
he's never played with the player as good as Joan Brown.
He's never played with the player even as close as
good as Joe Brown, frankly.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Or defenders that could shoot as well as the defenders
can shoot right.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Exactly, And you're really surrounding him with.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
A lot of shooting talent, a lot of versatility if
you if you plug him into this roster.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
So it's not the I don't hate it, it would
it would be the kind of it would.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Be one of the few trades that could top the
shock waves created by the Luca Doctors trade, you know
what I mean, Like it's one. It would be one
of the craziest trades. It would be up there with
the the kd summer and the Kawhi summer.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Is maybe even bigger than both of those. Man, maybe
not bigger than Katie, but I think it's probably bigger
than Kawhi of the Clippers summer.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
If you're ranking you know, early July moves, as there
have been many, as there's been some some bombs over
the course of the last you know, ten years, it's it's.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Kind of breaking my brain a little bit.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
But of all the the ultimate ultimately my answer is
if of all all the major shakeups that would you know,
be pitched and be potentially required in a in a
summer after you lose an ugly ugly, Ugly ugly series
where Jayson Tatum is not good, it would be probably
the best case scenario.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I'm glad that you mentioned the the just the mood
that would be surrounding the team, because that's the important
part of this, like Tatum would in this hypothetical scenario
at age twenty six and age twenty seven, which is
typically the age where stars figure it out, would have
a playoff run where he was very important in them
(24:36):
winning the title, but two playoff runs where he operated well.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Below that of a top tier superstar.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And essentially, like when you have a payroll like what
they had, it's almost like championship or bust in a
lot of ways. And I almost look at it like
the there's like a certain amount of urgency to capitalize
on this window because like, let's take a look at
like what the scenario would look like if Tatum did
not get traded. So Tatum doesn't get traded, you you
(25:08):
drop a couple of bodies. Let's call it porzingis, And like,
let's call it porzingis in Holiday, just as an example,
even if they just get rid of porzingis, okay, they
just get rid of porzingis. Horford's a year older, Drew
Hollidays a year older, Derek White's a year older. Are
though Derek White, Tatum, and Brown are still firmly in
their prime. So in this scenario, like you are a
(25:31):
less talented version of this year's team that just got
eliminated in the second round in embarrassing fashion. So in
that scenario, like you look forward and it's like, actually,
they're completely hamstrung other than draft picks. They have draft picks,
but they don't have any like free agent flexibility at all.
You're in this situation where you have to ask yourself,
(25:52):
like Cleveland is going to get better as Evan Mobley
gets better, and as Darius Garland gets better, and as
Jared Allen gets better. You look at the East and
it's like all the sudd the Pistons are looking a
little bit frisky as a team that could be a
problem in the East. The Pacers right now are playing
at extremely high level. You have the thunder who are
going to keep getting better. You have Wemby and Darren
(26:12):
Fox and who knows what else they're going to do
this summer. Houston could make a trade for Kevin Durant.
Like the teams around you would be getting better while
your team would be getting worse and we would have
just seen them not be good enough. And so then
you ask yourself, like, Okay, now Tatum's twenty eight to
twenty nine years old, are you even close to good
enough to win the title with your roster that you had.
(26:35):
And that's where I think it gets fascinating. Essentially, what
you're saying is like this roster is destined to some
form of blow up anyway like Tatum as like like
in this hypothetical where he's, you know, had these two
kind of somewhat disappointing playoff runs, he.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Would literally be.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
A player that you would look at as not like
you would need to surround him with an enormous amount
of talent for him to win, right. And so with
that being the case, Giannis is the type of superstar
talent that can lift up a roster that's just another
great roster and make it into a championship worthy roster.
And so I think it just kind of like makes
some sense on that level. But again, I think I
(27:14):
think the part, the part you mentioned about the human
element is real, Like I just don't think Boston would
do that to Tatum. But yeah, if he throws a
couple of stinkers down.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
There, yeah, I mean, it could get real.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
The Discords is gonna get real ugly if they if
he has a even if they lose in if they
lose in five and he starts playing better, It's like, Okay, get.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
In the lab, you know, come back, come back better
next summer.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
That's but if if he has well, if he doesn't
have a great game the rest of the series, or
even if he just has three mediocre games and they
and they lose in five, if the discourse is gonna
get quite ugly.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
The discords is getting quite ugly.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
I I was briefly checking out the I was like, okay,
maybe there's a way to include Kristaps in a deal.
So you're shedding some salary in the same trade. What
can we you want obviously want to give up more
salary and you're getting back, but is there anyone useful
on the bucks you can get back? And guess what
the answer is, No, that roster sucks. Their roster sucks.
Most of their roster's on one year deals. It's like
I was like, oh, aj Green's okay, Okay, he's two
(28:12):
million dollars, Like maybe that's Aj Green to make a
great making great Like I don't really want Kyle Kuzma
brooks on on the last year of his deal. Bobby
portois Uh, I think he actually know he could be traded,
but like somebody portis is okay, I suppose you could
take back Bobby.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Ports, but it's pretty bleak in terms.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Of the buck situation, which we knew that obviously, that's
why they're going to blow it up this summer, but
it's I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Know, well in a poor zingistrait too. In a theoretical
cost cutting move, they would look to move him to
a team with cap space so they didn't have to
take salary back and uh so like but that's that's
my point though, is like, if Boston's gonna be in
a substantial cost cutting like position, you have to have
a serious conversation with yourself about whether or not Tatum
is going to be good enough.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
Yeah, I think that's fair.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
I think the counter for and the rationalization for me
as a Celtic span and the counter for most Healthics
fans is the point you're making about the age of
the two superstars. They are entering TAM's gonna be twenty
seven next year, Jalenn Brown's gonna be twenty eight next year.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
They are entering.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
The theoretical, theoretically the best part of their basketball career,
and like not, and they're not.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Thirty or thirty one. Like they got.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Theoretically, you're entering a four to five year prime window,
as these stars seem to be keeping up that highly
elite level at like thirty two thirty three these days,
So you're entering a four to five year elite elite
window where you got. Where the hope would be those
guys continue to get better, even if it's marginally better.
You're not expecting a giant leap at this point in
need of their careers. But if they're gonna get a
(29:45):
little bit better each of them over the summer, you're
hoping that can make up for any of the the
talent drop you're getting that you're gonna have to make
reportedly in a cost cutting move this summer.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
The thing that would scare me with that is, yes,
players do get better in that twenty seven to thirty
two range, but they tend to get better at the
expense of some athleticism. It's usually in that like twenty
five twenty six range that you're moving really well. I mean,
I already saw I saw video today of like young
(30:16):
Tatum like he was.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
He's a lot less explosive than he used to be
even back then.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And is Tatum a good enough shot maker to do
this at a lower level of athleticism, and that arguably
has been the thing that he's never been able to
figure out. And so like there's it happens a lot
in Like I keep thinking about the comment that Matthew
had on playback a couple like three four nights ago,
(30:42):
where he just was like he basically was just saying
Tatum streaky, and like he's like he's, yeah, yeah, he
can be hot from three, but he can just as
easily be cold. And so that's where it gets triggy.
But I I and the point you're making is fair
in the sense that, like if you just bet on
Tatum and Brown progressing year over year, but is it
enough to make up for a substantial and loss and
(31:03):
roster talent. The last thing I'll say about it is
Joannis is thirty, Like you can easily get three great
years out of him and then pivot, you know. But uh,
but yeah, it's a fascinating concept. And I, for the record,
I'm still in the like gun to my head. If
you asked me who's gonna win the Celtics Knicks series,
(31:24):
I think I'd still I think I would too.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I think I would too. It's this.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
We've seen a lot of ups and downs from this,
you know era of the Jason Tatum, Joon Brown playoff.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
Era, and more often than not, someone said this.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
On playback, maybe it was Mike uh that more often
than not, And it's true the regular season as well.
They are they play well when they're backs against the wall.
They respond when versus well. They do not respond to
success well. They when they're when it seems like there
might be a little bit overconfident, it crumbles quickly. But
they have yet to lose three times in a row
this season. They're gonna try to keep that streak alive.
(32:00):
Tomorrow Tomorrow, right, No, Saturday, actually Saturday, actually.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Actually, yeah, they gotta sit with that lost.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
So I do think that the series, like I was saying,
if they lose in four or five, I think it's
gonna go at least six. If I if I was betting,
I would I would.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
Say it's at least six. So in that sense, anything
can happen.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, I uh, I would be shocked if they didn't
win one in New York, and then I would be
shocked if they didn't win Game five. But like, yeah,
if New York wins it feels like they're gonna win
in six, but yeah, I I it still feels very
open ended for me. It's just the hardest thing is
like they're right there. They're right there, even with the
(32:43):
twenty point leads. It's like, you get a stop on
Jylen Brunson, you win game one, you're a game two.
Game Game one literally goes to overtime. So like, yeah,
it's still it's still right there. I just have been
I've been just fascinated with the concept. I've been fascinated
with the concept because we haven't really seen anything like
this in NBA history, not in a very long time,
and so it's like I was trying to think, like
(33:04):
I think this would probably be the worst playoff loss,
like factoring in Superstar play, like since Lebron in twenty eleven. Probably,
But it's it's a different it's a little bit of
a different vibe because Lebron Lebron. No one was gonna
bail on Lebron, because that one series kind of stands
(33:26):
out as like a blip among like mostly playoff greatness,
you know, but with Tatum, there are just so many
of these kinds of examples, and then to have two
in a row, right in the heart of his prime.
I think it would be it would be weird, but
we're gonna see what happens, and it is. It was
just kind of a little fun thought exercise with a
relatively boring night around the NBA. That's all we have
for tonight, guys. No playback again tonight, but we'll be
(33:49):
back on playback tomorrow night. No film session tomorrow morning either,
so we're gonna take a little break. We will be
live tomorrow night after the final buzzer of Game three
thunder Nuggets. Very excited for that game. We'll see you guys.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Then. What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
As always, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
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