May 22, 2025 • 38 mins
Jason reacts live after the Indiana Pacers make a wild comeback to win Game 1 of the Eastern Conference Finals over the New York Knicks. He discusses Tyrese Haliburton, Pascal Siam, and Myles Turner contributing big minutes to come back against Jalen Brunson and Karl-Anthony Towns.
Follow the show on Playback for future “Aftershow” content: https://www.playback.tv/hoopstonight
#Volume #Herd
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. The NBA Finals are almost here and every
play could be the one that changes everything. This is
the NBA Playoffs where heroes rise, legacies are built, and
the action never lets up. And with DraftKings Sportsbook and
official sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just
watch the madness, you live it. Back your favorite team,
(00:23):
ride with your clutch, time killer, bet on the buzzer beaters,
the breakout performances, the game winning threes, from player props
to same game parlays. This is how you take your
fandom to the next level. The New York Knicks, after
beating the Celtics are up to plus three sixty, is
the second best odds to win the title. Surprisingly, the
Pacers back at plus six hundred because my initial thought
(00:46):
on that series is I want to pick the Pacers.
But some interesting championship oods right now. New to the game,
no sweat, Download the DraftKings Sportsbook, gap bet just five
dollars and if your bet wins, you'll score three hundred
dollars in bonus bets. It's that easy. I don't know
the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code hoops. That's code
hoops hoops for new customers to get three hundred dollars
(01:07):
in bonus bets if your bet wins. When you bet
just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.
Gambling problem called one hundred gambler In New York call
eight seven seven eight hope and why, or text hope
and why to four six seven three six y nine.
In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call eight
eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or
(01:28):
visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of
Boothill Casino and Resort. In Kansas twenty one plus age
in eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bet must
win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire one hundred and
sixty eight hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible
gaming resources, see DKG dot co. Slash audio. All right,
(02:02):
welcome to hoop tonight. You're at the vall you hav
me Wednesday? Everybody, oh of all, you guys are having
a great start to your week. Just the absolutely batshit
crazy game in Madison Square Garden. I cannot believe what
I just saw. I don't know what kind of voodoo
the Indiana Pacers have been engaging in but apparently you've
got to beat him five times in two weeks to
(02:24):
send him home. Because for the third consecutive series, trailing
by at least seven in the final minute, Tonight, trailing
by eight in the final minute, the Pacers have won
a game out of the jaws of defeat. I just cannot.
I looked over at my wife as the last free
throws were being shot by the Knicks, and I looked
(02:45):
at her and I said, there's no way they do
this again. There's absolutely no way they do this again.
And they did it again, and in just comical fashion,
as Tyrese Haliburton is dancing in the middle of the
floor and then just deciding to cover fifteen feet backwards
towards the top of the key, the shot off the
heel that goes way up in the air, and the
(03:06):
entire basketball world just freezes and all of us we're
thinking the same thing. We're like, that kind of went
straight up in the air, that's got a chance to
come down, and it came down, and the Pacers are
up one oh in the Eastern Conference Finals. On a
night I was talking with Shane, Shane's works on our show.
He's a Knicks fan. There is so much to be
(03:27):
confident and excited about. If you were a Knicks fan
coming out of that game and you lost, you're down
one zero in the series. I can't believe it. So
many interesting things to get into. You guys, owe the
drill before we get started. Subscribed to the Hoops Toight
YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos.
Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LTC. You guys,
don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about a podcast feed
(03:48):
wherever you get your podcast on our Hoops Tonight. It's
also super helpful if you leave a rating and a
review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our
social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure
you guys follow us there for content throughout the year,
and then keep dropping mail bag questions in the YouTube comments.
We're going to take about ten to fifteen minutes of
questions at the tail end of the show tonight. That's
where you guys can decide which direction you guys want
(04:09):
to go in terms of digging into some of the
deeper details of the series. And then when we wrap
up here tonight, we're going to be migrating over to
playback playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight where we have
our after show. It's a lot more informal. We take callers,
we take questions from the chat, we watch film, we
hang out, we talk shit. It's just a fun basketball talking,
(04:30):
you know, kind of hangout hour that we have after
the show. So come hang out with us on playback
when we finish up later tonight. What a bizarre game,
I feel, like, you know, it's so funny. I joke
with the people that, you know, the in my friends
and family that asked me what my job is, like,
I was telling them, like, the craziest thing is these
live reaction shows, because like you're trying to piece together
(04:52):
all these things that happen in the game. And so
obviously I prep a lot for my job. So I
put together extensive prep for how I'm going to tell
the story of the basketball game. And then the Indiana
Pacers three times in this postseason have made me just
rip that up and throw it away as they turn
what looks like a very different game into a PACER's win.
(05:15):
It's absolutely unbelievable, and everyone knows everyone who's been following
this Pacers team in this postseason run knows they literally
never stop playing. You are not done with the Pacers
until the final buzzer sounds. There is no relenting, there's
no letting go of the rope. Every single time you
make a basket or miss a basket, they're picking you
(05:37):
up full court. Every single time you go get a basket,
they're taking even if you make it, they're taking it
out and they're trying to push the ball ahead, first
available kick, ahead pass, first available advantage. They're hunting it,
they're looking to attack quickly, feeling as though their ball
pressure will wear you down, feeling as though they will
(05:58):
be able to win the large sample battle. And for
the record, like even though there was a lot of
really encouraging stuff on the Knicks front, we'll get into it,
I thought Jalen Brunson looked exhausted in overtime. They had
a couple he had a couple of buckets, but they
had a couple of grifts that he got rewarded with
four foul shots in overtime that you could tell, especially
on the last step back three, the one before the
(06:20):
offensive rebound. He did not get a lot of lyft
on that shot, and he left it way short. And
that's the game that the Pacers play. It's a wear
and tear game. It's a leaning on depth kind of game.
Like even with the overtime period tonight, only two Pacers
actually went over forty minutes. They will wear you down.
They never stop again. Ask Cavs fans. They had him
(06:44):
dead to rights. Max Drus gets a huge three point shot,
They're up seven, doesn't matter, Game's not over. The Bucks
Gary Trent Junior three after three, after three, it doesn't matter.
Games not over. They play with such a furious pace
and they're so capable of getting insanely hot. Aaron Nei Smith,
(07:05):
that is one of the greatest heat checks you'll ever
see in an NBA playoff game. Six threes in the
final five minutes. Every single one of them was tough
on the move. One of the things I've been talking
a lot about with respect to Anthony Edwards is a
trend that I expect to see really take over in
(07:25):
the new NBA, in the future of the NBA, which
is seeing supreme athletes become great shooters. It didn't used
to be that way back in the day. It used
to be the supreme athletes didn't work very much on that.
It was even denigrated in the lower levels of basketball.
Is settling. If you were a good athlete and you
took a three, you were wasting an opportunity to use
your athleticism going towards the basket. We are seeing guys
(07:48):
like Ant rise and fire and hit tough shots because
they have ridiculous athleticism. When you combine the shot making
with the ability to get lift in separation, it's deadly.
And it didn't matter what the Knicks did with Aaron E.
Smith down the stretch, he just rows up, got his
lift and then right at the top, just that flip
of the wrist. That's where his muscle memory comes in.
(08:10):
I and Aaron E. Smith is one of several Pacers
players that has just made these minuscule improvements year over
year each of the last few years, and they're all
just better basketball players now than they used to be.
And then Tyre's Halliburton. We talked about it going into
this playoff series. As great as Jalen Brunson has been
and he's been the best clutch player in the NBA
(08:32):
this postseason, Tyre's Halliburton has been right there behind him,
and he has a tendency to It's been much lower
volume than Brunson butt like just unbelievably high efficiency. He
just keeps making every single big shot at the end
of games that needs to be made. He seems to
be very comfortable operating there in the middle of the floor.
(08:54):
Oh my god, I just can't believe it, guys, I
just can't believe it. All a very interesting flow. Obviously,
the Pacers come out red hot, hitting every single shot
they take. I think they start the game eight for eight.
Then Mitchell Robinson checks into the game and is just
a human wrecking ball, grabbing a ton of offensive rebounds,
(09:15):
providing some vertical spacing and ball screens. Is good, great
work on defense, throwing guys around. With this physicality, the
Knicks kind of regain control of the situation and they
kind of stiff arm the Pacers in that you know,
three to seven point range for a good chunk of
time going into that early fourth quarter stretch we did
see as both offenses were very comfortable in the first half,
(09:38):
we saw both defenses shift to a lot more switching
in the third quarter, which got rid of some of
the natural openings that were existing for both teams, and
both teams started to struggle to score the basketball, and
all of a sudden, TJ McConnell drives on Jalen Brunson
along the baseline, Pump fakes, catches a swiped down on
(10:00):
his right arm and picks up Brunson's fifth foul, and
it's ninety four to ninety two with about ten minutes left,
and the Knicks just completely took over the game from there.
Ognanobe giving buckets to Ben matherin a step back three,
an aggressive move in the lane, Carl Anthony Towns draws
a foul, and a transition cross match from aaron Ne
(10:20):
Smith as he's trailing to play in transition. Duce McBride
a smart cut to the top of the key draws
a foul. Carl Anthony Town's another left shoulder hook over Siakam.
He kicked Siakam's ass during that stretch. All of a sudden,
we look up and the Knicks are up by sixteen points.
It's one eighteen to one oh two. Pacers don't really
have anybody in rhythm. You know, the game's not over
(10:42):
at that point, but at the same time, the Pacers were,
or the Knicks were able to kind of stiff farm
him until that five minute mark, and it looked like
they were going to get out of there with the wind,
and then all of a sudden, Aaron Nee Smith just
every single time down the floor. The crazy thing is
is the Knicks were getting buckets during that stretch. Brunson
beating Ben Shepherd straight iso at the top of the key,
(11:04):
Karl Anthony Towns anice little semi transition attack off the
left wing, gets a layup. They were scoring and it
didn't matter because the Pacers were scoring every single time
down the floor. I did think in overtime that the
Pacers started getting better shots. Now the Knicks looked very
much shell shocked. They legitimately looked shell shocked. I don't
(11:26):
blame them. I was shell shocked and I wasn't even
playing in the game. But like the Pacers did in
overtime get quality looks in their offense, the Knicks kind
of degraded down to Jalen Brunson iso ball. I thought
the play that Andrew Nemhard made on that kind of
decoy action. The Knicks come out of a time out,
they run like a decoy action on the right side
(11:48):
of the floor for McHale bridges, and they have Brunson
kind of fly all the way through to the opposite
side and Andrew Nempar jumps it and just gets in
the passing lane into the ball. It ends up going
off of Brunson's fingers out of bounds. You guys, saw
just how relentless Indiana's ball pressure is. There were two
(12:08):
plays towards the end of regulation where they nearly turned
the ball over. That play where Josh Hart kind of
tripped and fell and he somehow managed to recover to
the ball. Jalen Brunson gets trapped on that first inbounds
right by the baseline and while he's falling out of bounce,
has to rifle a bounce into the back into play
to try to give his team a chance. And thankfully
(12:31):
og In and Obi had to be there. But the
Knicks kind of lost their composure against Indiana's ballpressure. And
here's the thing, guys, It goes back to that point
that I was making earlier, as it pertains to the
Pacers just never stopping from the very first possession of
this game. The Pacers weren't just full court pressuring Jalen Brunson.
They were denying him on the inbound. They were trying
(12:52):
to get in front and prevent him from getting the
ball at all. Whatsoever. It is not like they started
doing anything unique or different down the stretch in terms
of their pressure. It's the same shit they were doing
all game. A few more traps obviously in the back
court when they got especially desperate, but most of it
is just ball pressure, ball pressure, physicality, jumping passing lanes,
(13:15):
trying to turn you over and again, it is a
forty eight minute job. This is not the first time
they've done this. Even if you pull away from the
specifics of the last minute comeback, they have multiple large
deficit comebacks in this postseason run. They Game five in Cleveland,
(13:37):
they were down what forty eight to twenty four or
something like that in the first half, and they ended
up losing that game. Like they just never stopped coming
at you. It is a team wide dynamic that manifests
almost as though it goes beyond what you see on paper.
With the talent with this team. I just was completely
(14:01):
blown away tonight. I think the dynamic that this series
is going to swing on is the ability to contain
the basketball. This is where I want to get into
some of the stuff that there is some encouraging stuff.
If you're a Knicks fan, you now have to beat
the Pacers five times. That's going to be a pain
in the ass, but you do have the tools with
(14:22):
which to do so. I thought that with exception of
really overtime, I didn't think the Pacers had any sort
of extended stretch of defensive success against the Knicks. And
again overtime, the Knicks were shook in the first half
a lot of traditional coverages. You guys want to know
why Miles Turner sat out the majority of the second
(14:43):
half of this game and then played all of what
ninety seconds in overtime before Carlisle pulled him again. The
Pacers were running a lot of traditional coverages, especially to
start the game, and Miles Turner was doing a god
awful job defending the screener and the ball. There was
a play where do Bride got an early layup in
this game where he was like hugged up to Mitchell
(15:04):
Robinson up at the top of the key. In general,
the Pacers were trying to account for Cat and his
catch and shoot threes by staying off of that that
ball handler and ball screens, and you were just seeing
Brunson get downhill over and over and over again. Mckaal
Bridges was getting into the paint whenever he wanted to.
Brunson you could tell feels immensely comfortable against Nemhart and
(15:27):
Nie Smith relative to Drew Holliday. I think one of
my big thoughts coming out of this game was some
contender needs to be reading the tea leaves here and
identify that Drew Holliday is one of the most impactful
defensive players in the postseason and jump on that guy
because he could come in and instantly raise the ceiling
of your defense because Brunson and Nemhart and Nie Smith
(15:50):
are too very good on ball defenders and Jalen Brunson
is just too big and too strong for them. The
big thing I noticed was in those ball screen actions
when brun and someone was going over the top, that
automatically put the on ball defender into the sidecar or
into the back position right trailing or in that like
kind of jail and on the hip sort of position.
(16:11):
And Brunson was just very easily able to kind of
bump guys off in that position and get all the
way to the rim. Then in the second half when
they started going into more switching and that there were
still some traditional schemes that both teams were still like
trying not to switch if they could, but if anybody
got hit by the screen, they were willing to switch.
In that second half, and in that second half, same
sort of thing. It didn't matter who it was. Brunson
(16:33):
was able to get to his spots against his primary defender.
And so there's some encouraging stuff on the Knicks front
where I do feel like they're going to be able
to score the ball effectively and consistently in this series.
On the flip side, I thought that they had some
extended stretch of successful defense against the Pacers. So for instance,
in that big run that the Knicks had while Jalen
(16:56):
Brunson was off the floor, they had success in switching
and in their traditional schemes. You guys remember that play
where duce McBride blocked Pascal Siakam on the dunk, traditional coverage,
Siakam slips pocket pass, Siakam takes off and there's a
rotation from duce McBride off the baseline, a huge blocked shot.
A couple possessions later, they run like a little you know,
(17:20):
wedge screen to try to get Siakam a little separation
before he sets the ball screen for Halliburton. Halliburton gets
down into the lane, Josh Hart nail help off of
Nie Smith, nice kickout, and Josh Hart just throws a
crazy close out at eron Nie Smith and nearly blocks
the shot and gets a stop. A few possessions later,
they straight up switch a ball screen hat ends up
(17:42):
on Halliburton, he gets a stop. They had some extended
stretches where they were able to get stops against the
Pacers in both their switching scheme and in their traditional
scheme using just chaotic rotations. So again, when the Knicks
hang onto the rope and they're very where he invested
mentally and physically, they can be really physically overwhelming for
(18:06):
this Pacers team and rotation, especially on the glass. A
lot of interior matchup hunting. It wasn't just cat going
at Siakam or Cat going at Turner. There was a
stretch there with og Andnobi went at Ben matherin a
couple times in a row, was just able to power
right through him and get to where he wanted to go.
And I mean a lot of this comes back to
(18:27):
what I said before the series about the Knicks, which
is like, there was a reason why most Knicks fans
I talked to after the Pistons series didn't really like
the team. Most Knicks fans I talked to throughout the
season were like, this isn't the same kind of like
character team that we saw last year when it was
you know, Isaiah Hartenstein. It was a different team right
(18:50):
at that point in time. And the reason why was
there was frustration with the Knicks and their ability to
consistently execute on both ends the floor, their ability to
hang onto the rope mentally and physically, and in this game,
it's these brief stretches where they're just not leveraging their
(19:10):
gifts to the ability that they're capable of, and the
Pacers will quite literally never let go of the rope.
And so there's just so many different things there. There
are so many different things there to learn from this
game if you're the Knicks, which is that like you
cannot let up even for a second in this matchup.
Let's get into some other notes around the series. So
(19:32):
a couple things the Knicks rebounding. I think you could
see a real perimeter size mismatch in this particular series.
So for instance, ogn Andob McHale bridges, even when you
get down to Josh Hart and Douce McBride, there is
like a size athleticism advantage in terms of just like
vertical ability on the perimeter for the Knicks. There's no
(19:56):
doubt that the Pacers have speed, and that that speed
can be a problem in different ways, mainly just the
pace that they're able to play with just furiously throughout
the entire game. But when it comes to some of
those battles in the vertical plane, the Knicks can win
a lot of those battles, and I thought that that
was pretty clearly evident in Game one. I did think
(20:18):
that Brunson was more capable to more capable of compromising
the defense and getting into the paint over the Lion's
share of the game than Haliburton was, even though we
can acknowledge that Halliburton was better in the overtime period.
I thought I thought a classic Caliburton sequence and that
overtime was that drop off pass to Nemhard cutting off
(20:38):
of the slot. Just a reminder with Halliburton that he's
going to score, but he will quite literally never miss
a read if the red is there. It's just like
programmed into his brain to play a certain way, and
he's going to hunt that read every single time he
gets that opportunity. But I did think that there was
a dribble penetration advantage for the Knicks. Mitchell Robinson, we
(21:00):
did not see any sort of I mean, obviously they
would grab him anytime he got right underneath the basket
or anything like that, but we did not see a
hack of Robinson at any point in the game. Mitch
Robinson in twenty one minutes was even and was pretty
successful as just a physical monster, offensive, rebounding, defending that
(21:21):
vertical spacing like we saw in that lob off of
the Jalen Brunson two man game. A lot of stuff
for Rick Carlisle to look at, by the way, just
in general with their ball screen coverages in the job
that Thomas Bryant and Miles Turner did. Those guys were
getting absolutely fried everywhere on the floor tonight, and there
are some real problems there that they're going to have
to look at. Thomas Bryant was minus eleven Miles Turner
(21:41):
was minus three and you end up winning this game
in the small ball groups, though, I did think that
Knicks had some success with that overall size, especially with
kat who was really given the business to Pascal Siakam
in those sequences. On the pacers front, I thought that
Siakam didn't do a good enough job punishing miss matches
throughout the game Normles Turner. That is a credit to
(22:03):
the Knicks. They battled really well in those situations. But
remember that was a huge part of this series last
year was Siakam attacking specifically Josh Hart, and he did
hit a little fade away and he drew a double
team on Josh Hart that led to a layup for
Andrew Nemhard. But there was not enough of that punishing
from Siakam from Turner against switches in the LA Turner
(22:24):
got multiple deep catches on mismatches that he wasn't able
to pay off, and so I think there's some opportunity there.
Nemhard was better in the second half, but I didn't
think he did much to impact the game offensively. Early,
Tyrese Haliburton kind of looked like he was off to
another one of those funky starts in this game, and
then right around halfway through the second quarter, he really
(22:45):
hit the Jets with his aggression and you could tell
he's gonna get looks because of the drop coverage that
they're running with Karl Anthony Towns, and when he gets
switches against Carl Anthony Towns, he's gonna be able to
get to his three point shot. He's just gonna have
to be able to knock it down consistently. But really
really fascinating Game one. This is going to be a
really entertaining series. Every game, I feel like is gonna
come down to the wire, just with the relentless, never
(23:08):
ending pressure of the Pacers and with how gifted of
a crunch time scorer that Jalen Brunson is just an
instant classic here in Game one of the Eastern Conference Finals.
I'm really excited to get further into it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
of programming that goes beyond the game, from action pack
live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard
hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.
Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that
(23:42):
makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive
sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vicetv dot
com to find your cable channel.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
All right, we're gonna bring Jackson on. We're gonna take
about five to ten minutes of questions and then we'll
head over to playback. We'll do ten fifteen minutes of questions.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Let's do it. First question was was this more of
a Knicks choke job or a PACER's comebacks theft, theft
steel whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So me, Jackson and Shane, we're debating this on the
UH on the zoom call before we went live, and
as is always the case, it's both. It's never as
simple as just one or the other. I'm really hesitant
to just call it a Knicks choke when we have
three completely different teams that have had this problem. Like,
at a certain point, I want to give the majority
(24:32):
of the credit to the Pacers just for their relentless,
never ending pressure. However, I thought that they this has
been a Knicks problem all year. Excuse me. They blew
the game open by keeping the ball moving around and
by playing through dues, through Kat through og Ananoby, and
they've had a tendency in crunch time to lean entirely
(24:54):
into Brunson, and Brunson has been amazing. Brunson's volume in
the clutch has been a made his efficiency has been
fine too, and he's won them a lot of games.
So I don't want to sit here and pretend like
it's it's like Brunson's doing something wrong necessarily, but there
are some realities to the fact that when you play
through one guy for extended stretches like that, the fatigue
(25:16):
can play a role. And I thought Brunson looked tired
in ot and I thought, especially over the final minutes
ot it affected his ability to get separation, And so
I think that's part of it. The miss free throws
are part of it. I feel like there's a certain
verve that Indiana plays with in transition during those late
game sequences that the Knicks probably do some damage to
(25:37):
by trying to stop the ball a little bit earlier
and prevent them from just knifing through them like hot
like a hot knife through butter like they do in
those sequences. But I want to give most of the
credits to Indiana. Man, Like they did it to a
sixty four win team in the last round, they did
it to Giannis and Tenna Koumpo in the round before that.
Like they just they are. They are unlike any team
(25:58):
I've ever seen. Jackson, I don't know. I don't know
any other way to put it.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I think that's a good transition to a different question
we got, which was, let me find it if the
Pacers don't win the title, do you think we will
look back on this playoff run, on these comebacks as
fluky comebacks or more of a sign of who the
Pacers are as sort of an identity.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I think fluky is disrespectful to the fact that they
won both series in five games. So I think that
I think that it's more complicated than just saying, you know,
they they're you know, voodooing their way to the to
the finish line.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Here.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Jackson and I were talking before, like kind of in
the first you know, it was either in the first
quarter or the second quarter. But I don't think the
Pacers can beat Oklahoma City. I think Oklahoma City matches
up extremely well with both of these teams because they're
both teams that rely heavily on guard shot creation, and
(26:55):
the Thunder just have a never ending line of elite
defensive guards that can make life hell for guys like that. So,
I mean, here's the thing, Like, if let me reapproach
the question like this, if if the Pacers beat the Thunder,
it won't be fluky, It'll be because they beat him
at basketball. So like, I'm not gonna try to undercut
(27:16):
anything they accomplished at this point they beat. I thought
that Cavs team was so good. I thought they had
a legitimate chance to beat Boston towards the end of
the season with how they were shooting the ball against Miami.
So like, I think this is I'm a big believer
in this Pacers team. I picked them to win this series.
I think that they're just better than they were last year.
I think Caliburton's one of the more underrated stars in
the league. I like that even goes beyond the disrespect
(27:39):
from his peers. I think even just in the media,
people don't quite appreciate his advantage creation and the job
that he does to grease the wheels of an elite offense.
I think the Pacers are really good man.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I agree. Next question seeing how both Julius Randall and
Karl Anthony Towns are playing in the conference finals, were
only one game into the Conference finals. The still looking
back on the trade, how do you sort of feel
about it from both teams standpoint?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Oh Man, this is an interesting question. I think it's
a little bit more of a mixed results kind of
conversation on the Knicks front, because Karl Anthony Towns has
had very high highs in this playoff run, but he's
also had very low lows. I thought, for the most
part tonight he was pretty good, So I don't want
(28:26):
to I don't want to like disparage him specifically tonight.
I think overall, the totality of the offseason worked out
well in the sense that, like, if you make those
sorts of moves, the McHale Bridges move and the Cat move,
you gotta make the conference finals. You've got to beat
a Boston in order to make that sort of trade
(28:50):
worth it. And I think the McHale Bridges deal in
particular was very uneven in the sense that he was
not very good in the regular season compared to what
he was capable of. But I think he's been great
defensively in the postseason, and I think overall the Josh Hart, McHale,
Bridges og and an Obi trio between Brunson and Cat
has made up for a lot of their defensive deficiencies,
(29:10):
and I think Kat brings a lot of positives. I
also think there are some realities to the fit with
Julius Randall, and like how that would have been clunky
to have Julius on this particular team. So, I mean,
you could argue that not having a Dante DiVincenzo is
a depth piece is probably the most painful part of
that deal because Cat has brought I would argue, let
(29:32):
me spit this back to you Jackson before we talk
a little bit about the Minnesota side of it. Do
you think that Cat on the Knicks, forget about the trade.
Do you think that Cat on the Knicks is a
better fit than Julius Randall on these Knicks.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
I do.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I think so too.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And I think Julius Randall is a better fit on
the Timberwolves just in a vacuum than Karl Anthony Towns is.
So in that sense, I think both teams made a
move that was you know, at least well in ten.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, to your point, I think the Timberwolf side of
this deal was a slam dunk home run, and like
I talked about this before the season, I said, if
Randall goes with Randall going to Minnesota, I didn't like
the deal, but I said there was an obvious upside.
The obvious upside is Julius Randall is a better high post,
(30:23):
low post shot creator than Karl Anthony Towns. He flat
out is, and he's also a better defensive player. But
that I think has been more of a revelation. Didn't
I didn't think Julius had that reputation before this year.
But Julius is flat out a better high post, low
post shot creator, and specifically within what Minnesota has needed
in this postseason run, that has been immensely valuable to them.
(30:46):
So like that's been a home run, Dante in the
depth has been a home run. There was a range
of outcomes for the Julius Randall deal on the Minnesota front,
and it has skewed heavily towards the high range of
those outcomes. So it's like a slam dunk for Minnesota.
I think it's a little more complicated on the Knicks front,
But as we mentioned earlier, I think Pad is just
(31:06):
a natural fit that Julius isn't in this system, So
it might just be a rare example of a trade
that kind of worked for both teams. Yeah, I think
I agree. I agree with all that there's really quickly.
There's one other thing that's kind of interesting. I see
these stretches kind of like this stretch when Mitchell Robinson
was dominating in that late first quarter. I do think
(31:28):
there's a version of this team that has a more
defensive center, like an athlete center instead of cat that
that could potentially reach higher highs than this team. And
I think that's the question they're gonna have to ask
themselves this summer, depending on what happens in the next
four weeks.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, that's a good point. Next question, Jason, do you
think that the Knicks can last playing at this pace
with the Pacers over the course of the series, especially
considering the minute totals that those guys play do the Pacers?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Guys, here's the thing, they can last, but they can't
afford to lose games like this. I mean, like tonight,
like you play well enough to be because here's the thing, guys,
like the Pacers didn't play as well as they were
capable of during the majority of this game. Siakam was
pretty bad. Nemhard was pretty bad. There was Uh. Turner
was good to start the game on offense, but was
(32:23):
brutal in a bunch of other ways. Uh, they didn't
get a ton of scoring pop off their bench the
way they usually do. Like Ben Mathern has been their
highest scoring player per minute in this postseason run. He
had nine points and twenty one minutes. Like, there were
a lot of things that didn't go their way. You
gotta win that game, and that's where it gets discouraging.
(32:44):
That said, the difference in the pace is like obvious
just looking at the scoreboard. So they scored one hundred
and thirty five points tonight. They scored one nineteen in
Game five six against Boston, one oh two in Game five,
one twenty one in Game four, uh ninety three in
Game three, ninety one in Game two, one oh eight
(33:06):
in Game one. Like their score. They haven't scored over
one hundred and twenty one points in any playoff game
except for Game one against the Pistons. So this is
now we're all the way up at one thirty eight.
So there's like a clear like just sheer number of
possessions type of dynamic at play. As a matter of fact,
I'm gonna try to pull up the specific number of possessions.
(33:27):
So the Knicks had one hundred and twenty seven possessions tonight,
trim off the fourteen in overtime, that's one fourteen. And
if we just pull like a random I'm just gonna
pull like one of the Celtics wins, like Game four
against Boston. That game they had one hundred and four possessions,
(33:48):
so it's ten additional possessions. So it's like it's more,
but it's not dramatically so much more that it should
cause that much of a problem. The main thing to
me is just you can't afford like to me, in
playoff series, there's so much weirdness anyway, Like you're gonna
go on the road to Indiana. You could have a
game where Obi Tappen has twenty points. You could go
and Ben Mathern could have twenty five points. Like there
(34:11):
are already these kind of weird variables in a playoff series.
You can't afford to lose the game where you looked
like the better team for the majority of the game.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
As a Celtics fan, I know that last question before
we go over to playback. If it's thunder Pacers in
the finals, do you think teams will start putting depth
and specifically speed depth as a priority for roster.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Absolutely, I think that, you know, I feel like that's
been the story of this entire season, dating back to
those of you guys who've been listening to the show
for a while. You think back to the conversations we
were having in October November. What was the number one buzzword?
I was thrown around perimeter speed, perimeter speed, talked about
it with Golden State. I was like, Golden State is
one secondary shot creator away from being good because they're
(34:59):
loaded up with simitter speed. Houston loaded up to perimeter speed,
Oklahoma City perimeter speed. Like it just because of the
game being more in transition, because of the game being
played more in rotation, because of the long rebounds that
are coming off of these threes. Everything is a foot race,
and it's just turning into a situation where I think
(35:20):
you've got to have a certain amount of speed and
a certain amount of depth just to be able to
handle the grueling realities of the NBA Playoffs. I mean,
even if we dig into it further, like there's a
more of attrition aspect to all of this. Indiana has
outlasted teams that have dealt with injuries now multiple playoff
runs in a row, between the you know, Darius Garland
(35:41):
injury last in the last round, Evan Mobley missed a
game in the last round last year, the Donovan Mitchell injury,
the Yannis injury, the Dame injury. This year, Oklahoma City
even just withstanding a Job Moran injury, was standing a
Aaron Gordon injury, that the Michael Porter junior injury, like
(36:02):
the thunder and the Pacers look healthier than everybody. And
it's because they're super deep. As I mentioned before the series.
There before tonight, and I'm not sure if tonight's numbers
threw it off at all, there wasn't a single Pacer
averaging over thirty five minutes per game like they're just
they're able to dig deep into their bench and get
(36:22):
production and keep everyone's minutes. Now, I think that's a
I think that's a huge part of their ability to
survive these deep playffrons and pulling up the minutes per
game stats in the postseason real quick for the Thunder.
So for the Thunder, Shay is the only player playing
over thirty five minutes per game, thirty six point eight minutes.
Ja Dub's at thirty five. Every other Thunder player aside
(36:45):
from Shay and Jay Dubb, is playing less than thirty
minutes per game in this postseason, less than thirty. They're
all playing about half the game. Chet twenty nine point eight,
Lou Dort twenty six point eight, Isaiah Hartenstein twenty five
point three. This is all half the game. They're playing
half a playoff game. Meanwhile, everyone else is like, like
JJ Redicks, Like we're playing everybody all twenty four minutes
(37:05):
in the second half. Tom Thibodeau is playing his guys
nassive minutes. I think there are some realities to the
way that that depth is allowing them to survive the
war of attrition in the postseason. All right, guys, that's
all we have for tonight on YouTube. At least, we're
about to head over to playback so again that's playback
dot tv slash oops tonight, head over there right now.
We'll hang out for another forty five minutes or so,
(37:26):
just you know, taking callers talking about the game, getting
into some of the footage. Again, As always, as sincerely
appreciate you guys for supporting the show. We will be
having a film session tomorrow morning, so come back to
YouTube tomorrow early, like right around noon ish, and we
will have a film breakdown from Game one of the
Eastern Conference Finals. I'll see you guys in playback. Otherwise
I'll see you guys tomorrow morning. What's up guys. As always,
(37:48):
I appreciate you for listening to and supporting OOPS tonight.
They would actually be really helpful for us if you
guys would take a second and leave a rating and
a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us,
but if you could take a minute to do that,
I really appreciate it. The volume
Speaker 2 (38:06):
M
The volume. The NBA Finals are almost here and every
play could be the one that changes everything. This is
the NBA Playoffs where heroes rise, legacies are built, and
the action never lets up. And with DraftKings Sportsbook and
official sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just
watch the madness, you live it. Back your favorite team,
(00:23):
ride with your clutch, time killer, bet on the buzzer beaters,
the breakout performances, the game winning threes, from player props
to same game parlays. This is how you take your
fandom to the next level. The New York Knicks, after
beating the Celtics are up to plus three sixty, is
the second best odds to win the title. Surprisingly, the
Pacers back at plus six hundred because my initial thought
(00:46):
on that series is I want to pick the Pacers.
But some interesting championship oods right now. New to the game,
no sweat, Download the DraftKings Sportsbook, gap bet just five
dollars and if your bet wins, you'll score three hundred
dollars in bonus bets. It's that easy. I don't know
the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code hoops. That's code
hoops hoops for new customers to get three hundred dollars
(01:07):
in bonus bets if your bet wins. When you bet
just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.
Gambling problem called one hundred gambler In New York call
eight seven seven eight hope and why, or text hope
and why to four six seven three six y nine.
In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call eight
eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or
(01:28):
visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of
Boothill Casino and Resort. In Kansas twenty one plus age
in eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bet must
win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire one hundred and
sixty eight hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible
gaming resources, see DKG dot co. Slash audio. All right,
(02:02):
welcome to hoop tonight. You're at the vall you hav
me Wednesday? Everybody, oh of all, you guys are having
a great start to your week. Just the absolutely batshit
crazy game in Madison Square Garden. I cannot believe what
I just saw. I don't know what kind of voodoo
the Indiana Pacers have been engaging in but apparently you've
got to beat him five times in two weeks to
(02:24):
send him home. Because for the third consecutive series, trailing
by at least seven in the final minute, Tonight, trailing
by eight in the final minute, the Pacers have won
a game out of the jaws of defeat. I just cannot.
I looked over at my wife as the last free
throws were being shot by the Knicks, and I looked
(02:45):
at her and I said, there's no way they do
this again. There's absolutely no way they do this again.
And they did it again, and in just comical fashion,
as Tyrese Haliburton is dancing in the middle of the
floor and then just deciding to cover fifteen feet backwards
towards the top of the key, the shot off the
heel that goes way up in the air, and the
(03:06):
entire basketball world just freezes and all of us we're
thinking the same thing. We're like, that kind of went
straight up in the air, that's got a chance to
come down, and it came down, and the Pacers are
up one oh in the Eastern Conference Finals. On a
night I was talking with Shane, Shane's works on our show.
He's a Knicks fan. There is so much to be
(03:27):
confident and excited about. If you were a Knicks fan
coming out of that game and you lost, you're down
one zero in the series. I can't believe it. So
many interesting things to get into. You guys, owe the
drill before we get started. Subscribed to the Hoops Toight
YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos.
Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason LTC. You guys,
don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about a podcast feed
(03:48):
wherever you get your podcast on our Hoops Tonight. It's
also super helpful if you leave a rating and a
review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our
social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure
you guys follow us there for content throughout the year,
and then keep dropping mail bag questions in the YouTube comments.
We're going to take about ten to fifteen minutes of
questions at the tail end of the show tonight. That's
where you guys can decide which direction you guys want
(04:09):
to go in terms of digging into some of the
deeper details of the series. And then when we wrap
up here tonight, we're going to be migrating over to
playback playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight where we have
our after show. It's a lot more informal. We take callers,
we take questions from the chat, we watch film, we
hang out, we talk shit. It's just a fun basketball talking,
(04:30):
you know, kind of hangout hour that we have after
the show. So come hang out with us on playback
when we finish up later tonight. What a bizarre game,
I feel, like, you know, it's so funny. I joke
with the people that, you know, the in my friends
and family that asked me what my job is, like,
I was telling them, like, the craziest thing is these
live reaction shows, because like you're trying to piece together
(04:52):
all these things that happen in the game. And so
obviously I prep a lot for my job. So I
put together extensive prep for how I'm going to tell
the story of the basketball game. And then the Indiana
Pacers three times in this postseason have made me just
rip that up and throw it away as they turn
what looks like a very different game into a PACER's win.
(05:15):
It's absolutely unbelievable, and everyone knows everyone who's been following
this Pacers team in this postseason run knows they literally
never stop playing. You are not done with the Pacers
until the final buzzer sounds. There is no relenting, there's
no letting go of the rope. Every single time you
make a basket or miss a basket, they're picking you
(05:37):
up full court. Every single time you go get a basket,
they're taking even if you make it, they're taking it
out and they're trying to push the ball ahead, first
available kick, ahead pass, first available advantage. They're hunting it,
they're looking to attack quickly, feeling as though their ball
pressure will wear you down, feeling as though they will
(05:58):
be able to win the large sample battle. And for
the record, like even though there was a lot of
really encouraging stuff on the Knicks front, we'll get into it,
I thought Jalen Brunson looked exhausted in overtime. They had
a couple he had a couple of buckets, but they
had a couple of grifts that he got rewarded with
four foul shots in overtime that you could tell, especially
on the last step back three, the one before the
(06:20):
offensive rebound. He did not get a lot of lyft
on that shot, and he left it way short. And
that's the game that the Pacers play. It's a wear
and tear game. It's a leaning on depth kind of game.
Like even with the overtime period tonight, only two Pacers
actually went over forty minutes. They will wear you down.
They never stop again. Ask Cavs fans. They had him
(06:44):
dead to rights. Max Drus gets a huge three point shot,
They're up seven, doesn't matter, Game's not over. The Bucks
Gary Trent Junior three after three, after three, it doesn't matter.
Games not over. They play with such a furious pace
and they're so capable of getting insanely hot. Aaron Nei Smith,
(07:05):
that is one of the greatest heat checks you'll ever
see in an NBA playoff game. Six threes in the
final five minutes. Every single one of them was tough
on the move. One of the things I've been talking
a lot about with respect to Anthony Edwards is a
trend that I expect to see really take over in
(07:25):
the new NBA, in the future of the NBA, which
is seeing supreme athletes become great shooters. It didn't used
to be that way back in the day. It used
to be the supreme athletes didn't work very much on that.
It was even denigrated in the lower levels of basketball.
Is settling. If you were a good athlete and you
took a three, you were wasting an opportunity to use
your athleticism going towards the basket. We are seeing guys
(07:48):
like Ant rise and fire and hit tough shots because
they have ridiculous athleticism. When you combine the shot making
with the ability to get lift in separation, it's deadly.
And it didn't matter what the Knicks did with Aaron E.
Smith down the stretch, he just rows up, got his
lift and then right at the top, just that flip
of the wrist. That's where his muscle memory comes in.
(08:10):
I and Aaron E. Smith is one of several Pacers
players that has just made these minuscule improvements year over
year each of the last few years, and they're all
just better basketball players now than they used to be.
And then Tyre's Halliburton. We talked about it going into
this playoff series. As great as Jalen Brunson has been
and he's been the best clutch player in the NBA
(08:32):
this postseason, Tyre's Halliburton has been right there behind him,
and he has a tendency to It's been much lower
volume than Brunson butt like just unbelievably high efficiency. He
just keeps making every single big shot at the end
of games that needs to be made. He seems to
be very comfortable operating there in the middle of the floor.
(08:54):
Oh my god, I just can't believe it, guys, I
just can't believe it. All a very interesting flow. Obviously,
the Pacers come out red hot, hitting every single shot
they take. I think they start the game eight for eight.
Then Mitchell Robinson checks into the game and is just
a human wrecking ball, grabbing a ton of offensive rebounds,
(09:15):
providing some vertical spacing and ball screens. Is good, great
work on defense, throwing guys around. With this physicality, the
Knicks kind of regain control of the situation and they
kind of stiff arm the Pacers in that you know,
three to seven point range for a good chunk of
time going into that early fourth quarter stretch we did
see as both offenses were very comfortable in the first half,
(09:38):
we saw both defenses shift to a lot more switching
in the third quarter, which got rid of some of
the natural openings that were existing for both teams, and
both teams started to struggle to score the basketball, and
all of a sudden, TJ McConnell drives on Jalen Brunson
along the baseline, Pump fakes, catches a swiped down on
(10:00):
his right arm and picks up Brunson's fifth foul, and
it's ninety four to ninety two with about ten minutes left,
and the Knicks just completely took over the game from there.
Ognanobe giving buckets to Ben matherin a step back three,
an aggressive move in the lane, Carl Anthony Towns draws
a foul, and a transition cross match from aaron Ne
(10:20):
Smith as he's trailing to play in transition. Duce McBride
a smart cut to the top of the key draws
a foul. Carl Anthony Town's another left shoulder hook over Siakam.
He kicked Siakam's ass during that stretch. All of a sudden,
we look up and the Knicks are up by sixteen points.
It's one eighteen to one oh two. Pacers don't really
have anybody in rhythm. You know, the game's not over
(10:42):
at that point, but at the same time, the Pacers were,
or the Knicks were able to kind of stiff farm
him until that five minute mark, and it looked like
they were going to get out of there with the wind,
and then all of a sudden, Aaron Nee Smith just
every single time down the floor. The crazy thing is
is the Knicks were getting buckets during that stretch. Brunson
beating Ben Shepherd straight iso at the top of the key,
(11:04):
Karl Anthony Towns anice little semi transition attack off the
left wing, gets a layup. They were scoring and it
didn't matter because the Pacers were scoring every single time
down the floor. I did think in overtime that the
Pacers started getting better shots. Now the Knicks looked very
much shell shocked. They legitimately looked shell shocked. I don't
(11:26):
blame them. I was shell shocked and I wasn't even
playing in the game. But like the Pacers did in
overtime get quality looks in their offense, the Knicks kind
of degraded down to Jalen Brunson iso ball. I thought
the play that Andrew Nemhard made on that kind of
decoy action. The Knicks come out of a time out,
they run like a decoy action on the right side
(11:48):
of the floor for McHale bridges, and they have Brunson
kind of fly all the way through to the opposite
side and Andrew Nempar jumps it and just gets in
the passing lane into the ball. It ends up going
off of Brunson's fingers out of bounds. You guys, saw
just how relentless Indiana's ball pressure is. There were two
(12:08):
plays towards the end of regulation where they nearly turned
the ball over. That play where Josh Hart kind of
tripped and fell and he somehow managed to recover to
the ball. Jalen Brunson gets trapped on that first inbounds
right by the baseline and while he's falling out of bounce,
has to rifle a bounce into the back into play
to try to give his team a chance. And thankfully
(12:31):
og In and Obi had to be there. But the
Knicks kind of lost their composure against Indiana's ballpressure. And
here's the thing, guys, It goes back to that point
that I was making earlier, as it pertains to the
Pacers just never stopping from the very first possession of
this game. The Pacers weren't just full court pressuring Jalen Brunson.
They were denying him on the inbound. They were trying
(12:52):
to get in front and prevent him from getting the
ball at all. Whatsoever. It is not like they started
doing anything unique or different down the stretch in terms
of their pressure. It's the same shit they were doing
all game. A few more traps obviously in the back
court when they got especially desperate, but most of it
is just ball pressure, ball pressure, physicality, jumping passing lanes,
(13:15):
trying to turn you over and again, it is a
forty eight minute job. This is not the first time
they've done this. Even if you pull away from the
specifics of the last minute comeback, they have multiple large
deficit comebacks in this postseason run. They Game five in Cleveland,
(13:37):
they were down what forty eight to twenty four or
something like that in the first half, and they ended
up losing that game. Like they just never stopped coming
at you. It is a team wide dynamic that manifests
almost as though it goes beyond what you see on paper.
With the talent with this team. I just was completely
(14:01):
blown away tonight. I think the dynamic that this series
is going to swing on is the ability to contain
the basketball. This is where I want to get into
some of the stuff that there is some encouraging stuff.
If you're a Knicks fan, you now have to beat
the Pacers five times. That's going to be a pain
in the ass, but you do have the tools with
(14:22):
which to do so. I thought that with exception of
really overtime, I didn't think the Pacers had any sort
of extended stretch of defensive success against the Knicks. And
again overtime, the Knicks were shook in the first half
a lot of traditional coverages. You guys want to know
why Miles Turner sat out the majority of the second
(14:43):
half of this game and then played all of what
ninety seconds in overtime before Carlisle pulled him again. The
Pacers were running a lot of traditional coverages, especially to
start the game, and Miles Turner was doing a god
awful job defending the screener and the ball. There was
a play where do Bride got an early layup in
this game where he was like hugged up to Mitchell
(15:04):
Robinson up at the top of the key. In general,
the Pacers were trying to account for Cat and his
catch and shoot threes by staying off of that that
ball handler and ball screens, and you were just seeing
Brunson get downhill over and over and over again. Mckaal
Bridges was getting into the paint whenever he wanted to.
Brunson you could tell feels immensely comfortable against Nemhart and
(15:27):
Nie Smith relative to Drew Holliday. I think one of
my big thoughts coming out of this game was some
contender needs to be reading the tea leaves here and
identify that Drew Holliday is one of the most impactful
defensive players in the postseason and jump on that guy
because he could come in and instantly raise the ceiling
of your defense because Brunson and Nemhart and Nie Smith
(15:50):
are too very good on ball defenders and Jalen Brunson
is just too big and too strong for them. The
big thing I noticed was in those ball screen actions
when brun and someone was going over the top, that
automatically put the on ball defender into the sidecar or
into the back position right trailing or in that like
kind of jail and on the hip sort of position.
(16:11):
And Brunson was just very easily able to kind of
bump guys off in that position and get all the
way to the rim. Then in the second half when
they started going into more switching and that there were
still some traditional schemes that both teams were still like
trying not to switch if they could, but if anybody
got hit by the screen, they were willing to switch.
In that second half, and in that second half, same
sort of thing. It didn't matter who it was. Brunson
(16:33):
was able to get to his spots against his primary defender.
And so there's some encouraging stuff on the Knicks front
where I do feel like they're going to be able
to score the ball effectively and consistently in this series.
On the flip side, I thought that they had some
extended stretch of successful defense against the Pacers. So for instance,
in that big run that the Knicks had while Jalen
(16:56):
Brunson was off the floor, they had success in switching
and in their traditional schemes. You guys remember that play
where duce McBride blocked Pascal Siakam on the dunk, traditional coverage,
Siakam slips pocket pass, Siakam takes off and there's a
rotation from duce McBride off the baseline, a huge blocked shot.
A couple possessions later, they run like a little you know,
(17:20):
wedge screen to try to get Siakam a little separation
before he sets the ball screen for Halliburton. Halliburton gets
down into the lane, Josh Hart nail help off of
Nie Smith, nice kickout, and Josh Hart just throws a
crazy close out at eron Nie Smith and nearly blocks
the shot and gets a stop. A few possessions later,
they straight up switch a ball screen hat ends up
(17:42):
on Halliburton, he gets a stop. They had some extended
stretches where they were able to get stops against the
Pacers in both their switching scheme and in their traditional
scheme using just chaotic rotations. So again, when the Knicks
hang onto the rope and they're very where he invested
mentally and physically, they can be really physically overwhelming for
(18:06):
this Pacers team and rotation, especially on the glass. A
lot of interior matchup hunting. It wasn't just cat going
at Siakam or Cat going at Turner. There was a
stretch there with og Andnobi went at Ben matherin a
couple times in a row, was just able to power
right through him and get to where he wanted to go.
And I mean a lot of this comes back to
(18:27):
what I said before the series about the Knicks, which
is like, there was a reason why most Knicks fans
I talked to after the Pistons series didn't really like
the team. Most Knicks fans I talked to throughout the
season were like, this isn't the same kind of like
character team that we saw last year when it was
you know, Isaiah Hartenstein. It was a different team right
(18:50):
at that point in time. And the reason why was
there was frustration with the Knicks and their ability to
consistently execute on both ends the floor, their ability to
hang onto the rope mentally and physically, and in this game,
it's these brief stretches where they're just not leveraging their
(19:10):
gifts to the ability that they're capable of, and the
Pacers will quite literally never let go of the rope.
And so there's just so many different things there. There
are so many different things there to learn from this
game if you're the Knicks, which is that like you
cannot let up even for a second in this matchup.
Let's get into some other notes around the series. So
(19:32):
a couple things the Knicks rebounding. I think you could
see a real perimeter size mismatch in this particular series.
So for instance, ogn Andob McHale bridges, even when you
get down to Josh Hart and Douce McBride, there is
like a size athleticism advantage in terms of just like
vertical ability on the perimeter for the Knicks. There's no
(19:56):
doubt that the Pacers have speed, and that that speed
can be a problem in different ways, mainly just the
pace that they're able to play with just furiously throughout
the entire game. But when it comes to some of
those battles in the vertical plane, the Knicks can win
a lot of those battles, and I thought that that
was pretty clearly evident in Game one. I did think
(20:18):
that Brunson was more capable to more capable of compromising
the defense and getting into the paint over the Lion's
share of the game than Haliburton was, even though we
can acknowledge that Halliburton was better in the overtime period.
I thought I thought a classic Caliburton sequence and that
overtime was that drop off pass to Nemhard cutting off
(20:38):
of the slot. Just a reminder with Halliburton that he's
going to score, but he will quite literally never miss
a read if the red is there. It's just like
programmed into his brain to play a certain way, and
he's going to hunt that read every single time he
gets that opportunity. But I did think that there was
a dribble penetration advantage for the Knicks. Mitchell Robinson, we
(21:00):
did not see any sort of I mean, obviously they
would grab him anytime he got right underneath the basket
or anything like that, but we did not see a
hack of Robinson at any point in the game. Mitch
Robinson in twenty one minutes was even and was pretty
successful as just a physical monster, offensive, rebounding, defending that
(21:21):
vertical spacing like we saw in that lob off of
the Jalen Brunson two man game. A lot of stuff
for Rick Carlisle to look at, by the way, just
in general with their ball screen coverages in the job
that Thomas Bryant and Miles Turner did. Those guys were
getting absolutely fried everywhere on the floor tonight, and there
are some real problems there that they're going to have
to look at. Thomas Bryant was minus eleven Miles Turner
(21:41):
was minus three and you end up winning this game
in the small ball groups, though, I did think that
Knicks had some success with that overall size, especially with
kat who was really given the business to Pascal Siakam
in those sequences. On the pacers front, I thought that
Siakam didn't do a good enough job punishing miss matches
throughout the game Normles Turner. That is a credit to
(22:03):
the Knicks. They battled really well in those situations. But
remember that was a huge part of this series last
year was Siakam attacking specifically Josh Hart, and he did
hit a little fade away and he drew a double
team on Josh Hart that led to a layup for
Andrew Nemhard. But there was not enough of that punishing
from Siakam from Turner against switches in the LA Turner
(22:24):
got multiple deep catches on mismatches that he wasn't able
to pay off, and so I think there's some opportunity there.
Nemhard was better in the second half, but I didn't
think he did much to impact the game offensively. Early,
Tyrese Haliburton kind of looked like he was off to
another one of those funky starts in this game, and
then right around halfway through the second quarter, he really
(22:45):
hit the Jets with his aggression and you could tell
he's gonna get looks because of the drop coverage that
they're running with Karl Anthony Towns, and when he gets
switches against Carl Anthony Towns, he's gonna be able to
get to his three point shot. He's just gonna have
to be able to knock it down consistently. But really
really fascinating Game one. This is going to be a
really entertaining series. Every game, I feel like is gonna
come down to the wire, just with the relentless, never
(23:08):
ending pressure of the Pacers and with how gifted of
a crunch time scorer that Jalen Brunson is just an
instant classic here in Game one of the Eastern Conference Finals.
I'm really excited to get further into it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
of programming that goes beyond the game, from action pack
live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard
hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.
Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that
(23:42):
makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive
sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vicetv dot
com to find your cable channel.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
All right, we're gonna bring Jackson on. We're gonna take
about five to ten minutes of questions and then we'll
head over to playback. We'll do ten fifteen minutes of questions.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Let's do it. First question was was this more of
a Knicks choke job or a PACER's comebacks theft, theft
steel whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So me, Jackson and Shane, we're debating this on the
UH on the zoom call before we went live, and
as is always the case, it's both. It's never as
simple as just one or the other. I'm really hesitant
to just call it a Knicks choke when we have
three completely different teams that have had this problem. Like,
at a certain point, I want to give the majority
(24:32):
of the credit to the Pacers just for their relentless,
never ending pressure. However, I thought that they this has
been a Knicks problem all year. Excuse me. They blew
the game open by keeping the ball moving around and
by playing through dues, through Kat through og Ananoby, and
they've had a tendency in crunch time to lean entirely
(24:54):
into Brunson, and Brunson has been amazing. Brunson's volume in
the clutch has been a made his efficiency has been
fine too, and he's won them a lot of games.
So I don't want to sit here and pretend like
it's it's like Brunson's doing something wrong necessarily, but there
are some realities to the fact that when you play
through one guy for extended stretches like that, the fatigue
(25:16):
can play a role. And I thought Brunson looked tired
in ot and I thought, especially over the final minutes
ot it affected his ability to get separation, And so
I think that's part of it. The miss free throws
are part of it. I feel like there's a certain
verve that Indiana plays with in transition during those late
game sequences that the Knicks probably do some damage to
(25:37):
by trying to stop the ball a little bit earlier
and prevent them from just knifing through them like hot
like a hot knife through butter like they do in
those sequences. But I want to give most of the
credits to Indiana. Man, Like they did it to a
sixty four win team in the last round, they did
it to Giannis and Tenna Koumpo in the round before that.
Like they just they are. They are unlike any team
(25:58):
I've ever seen. Jackson, I don't know. I don't know
any other way to put it.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I think that's a good transition to a different question
we got, which was, let me find it if the
Pacers don't win the title, do you think we will
look back on this playoff run, on these comebacks as
fluky comebacks or more of a sign of who the
Pacers are as sort of an identity.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I think fluky is disrespectful to the fact that they
won both series in five games. So I think that
I think that it's more complicated than just saying, you know,
they they're you know, voodooing their way to the to
the finish line.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Here.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Jackson and I were talking before, like kind of in
the first you know, it was either in the first
quarter or the second quarter. But I don't think the
Pacers can beat Oklahoma City. I think Oklahoma City matches
up extremely well with both of these teams because they're
both teams that rely heavily on guard shot creation, and
(26:55):
the Thunder just have a never ending line of elite
defensive guards that can make life hell for guys like that. So,
I mean, here's the thing, Like, if let me reapproach
the question like this, if if the Pacers beat the Thunder,
it won't be fluky, It'll be because they beat him
at basketball. So like, I'm not gonna try to undercut
(27:16):
anything they accomplished at this point they beat. I thought
that Cavs team was so good. I thought they had
a legitimate chance to beat Boston towards the end of
the season with how they were shooting the ball against Miami.
So like, I think this is I'm a big believer
in this Pacers team. I picked them to win this series.
I think that they're just better than they were last year.
I think Caliburton's one of the more underrated stars in
the league. I like that even goes beyond the disrespect
(27:39):
from his peers. I think even just in the media,
people don't quite appreciate his advantage creation and the job
that he does to grease the wheels of an elite offense.
I think the Pacers are really good man.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I agree. Next question seeing how both Julius Randall and
Karl Anthony Towns are playing in the conference finals, were
only one game into the Conference finals. The still looking
back on the trade, how do you sort of feel
about it from both teams standpoint?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Oh Man, this is an interesting question. I think it's
a little bit more of a mixed results kind of
conversation on the Knicks front, because Karl Anthony Towns has
had very high highs in this playoff run, but he's
also had very low lows. I thought, for the most
part tonight he was pretty good, So I don't want
(28:26):
to I don't want to like disparage him specifically tonight.
I think overall, the totality of the offseason worked out
well in the sense that, like, if you make those
sorts of moves, the McHale Bridges move and the Cat move,
you gotta make the conference finals. You've got to beat
a Boston in order to make that sort of trade
(28:50):
worth it. And I think the McHale Bridges deal in
particular was very uneven in the sense that he was
not very good in the regular season compared to what
he was capable of. But I think he's been great
defensively in the postseason, and I think overall the Josh Hart, McHale,
Bridges og and an Obi trio between Brunson and Cat
has made up for a lot of their defensive deficiencies,
(29:10):
and I think Kat brings a lot of positives. I
also think there are some realities to the fit with
Julius Randall, and like how that would have been clunky
to have Julius on this particular team. So, I mean,
you could argue that not having a Dante DiVincenzo is
a depth piece is probably the most painful part of
that deal because Cat has brought I would argue, let
(29:32):
me spit this back to you Jackson before we talk
a little bit about the Minnesota side of it. Do
you think that Cat on the Knicks, forget about the trade.
Do you think that Cat on the Knicks is a
better fit than Julius Randall on these Knicks.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
I do.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I think so too.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And I think Julius Randall is a better fit on
the Timberwolves just in a vacuum than Karl Anthony Towns is.
So in that sense, I think both teams made a
move that was you know, at least well in ten.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, to your point, I think the Timberwolf side of
this deal was a slam dunk home run, and like
I talked about this before the season, I said, if
Randall goes with Randall going to Minnesota, I didn't like
the deal, but I said there was an obvious upside.
The obvious upside is Julius Randall is a better high post,
(30:23):
low post shot creator than Karl Anthony Towns. He flat
out is, and he's also a better defensive player. But
that I think has been more of a revelation. Didn't
I didn't think Julius had that reputation before this year.
But Julius is flat out a better high post, low
post shot creator, and specifically within what Minnesota has needed
in this postseason run, that has been immensely valuable to them.
(30:46):
So like that's been a home run, Dante in the
depth has been a home run. There was a range
of outcomes for the Julius Randall deal on the Minnesota front,
and it has skewed heavily towards the high range of
those outcomes. So it's like a slam dunk for Minnesota.
I think it's a little more complicated on the Knicks front,
But as we mentioned earlier, I think Pad is just
(31:06):
a natural fit that Julius isn't in this system, So
it might just be a rare example of a trade
that kind of worked for both teams. Yeah, I think
I agree. I agree with all that there's really quickly.
There's one other thing that's kind of interesting. I see
these stretches kind of like this stretch when Mitchell Robinson
was dominating in that late first quarter. I do think
(31:28):
there's a version of this team that has a more
defensive center, like an athlete center instead of cat that
that could potentially reach higher highs than this team. And
I think that's the question they're gonna have to ask
themselves this summer, depending on what happens in the next
four weeks.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah, that's a good point. Next question, Jason, do you
think that the Knicks can last playing at this pace
with the Pacers over the course of the series, especially
considering the minute totals that those guys play do the Pacers?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Guys, here's the thing, they can last, but they can't
afford to lose games like this. I mean, like tonight,
like you play well enough to be because here's the thing, guys,
like the Pacers didn't play as well as they were
capable of during the majority of this game. Siakam was
pretty bad. Nemhard was pretty bad. There was Uh. Turner
was good to start the game on offense, but was
(32:23):
brutal in a bunch of other ways. Uh, they didn't
get a ton of scoring pop off their bench the
way they usually do. Like Ben Mathern has been their
highest scoring player per minute in this postseason run. He
had nine points and twenty one minutes. Like, there were
a lot of things that didn't go their way. You
gotta win that game, and that's where it gets discouraging.
(32:44):
That said, the difference in the pace is like obvious
just looking at the scoreboard. So they scored one hundred
and thirty five points tonight. They scored one nineteen in
Game five six against Boston, one oh two in Game five,
one twenty one in Game four, uh ninety three in
Game three, ninety one in Game two, one oh eight
(33:06):
in Game one. Like their score. They haven't scored over
one hundred and twenty one points in any playoff game
except for Game one against the Pistons. So this is
now we're all the way up at one thirty eight.
So there's like a clear like just sheer number of
possessions type of dynamic at play. As a matter of fact,
I'm gonna try to pull up the specific number of possessions.
(33:27):
So the Knicks had one hundred and twenty seven possessions tonight,
trim off the fourteen in overtime, that's one fourteen. And
if we just pull like a random I'm just gonna
pull like one of the Celtics wins, like Game four
against Boston. That game they had one hundred and four possessions,
(33:48):
so it's ten additional possessions. So it's like it's more,
but it's not dramatically so much more that it should
cause that much of a problem. The main thing to
me is just you can't afford like to me, in
playoff series, there's so much weirdness anyway, Like you're gonna
go on the road to Indiana. You could have a
game where Obi Tappen has twenty points. You could go
and Ben Mathern could have twenty five points. Like there
(34:11):
are already these kind of weird variables in a playoff series.
You can't afford to lose the game where you looked
like the better team for the majority of the game.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
As a Celtics fan, I know that last question before
we go over to playback. If it's thunder Pacers in
the finals, do you think teams will start putting depth
and specifically speed depth as a priority for roster.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Absolutely, I think that, you know, I feel like that's
been the story of this entire season, dating back to
those of you guys who've been listening to the show
for a while. You think back to the conversations we
were having in October November. What was the number one buzzword?
I was thrown around perimeter speed, perimeter speed, talked about
it with Golden State. I was like, Golden State is
one secondary shot creator away from being good because they're
(34:59):
loaded up with simitter speed. Houston loaded up to perimeter speed,
Oklahoma City perimeter speed. Like it just because of the
game being more in transition, because of the game being
played more in rotation, because of the long rebounds that
are coming off of these threes. Everything is a foot race,
and it's just turning into a situation where I think
(35:20):
you've got to have a certain amount of speed and
a certain amount of depth just to be able to
handle the grueling realities of the NBA Playoffs. I mean,
even if we dig into it further, like there's a
more of attrition aspect to all of this. Indiana has
outlasted teams that have dealt with injuries now multiple playoff
runs in a row, between the you know, Darius Garland
(35:41):
injury last in the last round, Evan Mobley missed a
game in the last round last year, the Donovan Mitchell injury,
the Yannis injury, the Dame injury. This year, Oklahoma City
even just withstanding a Job Moran injury, was standing a
Aaron Gordon injury, that the Michael Porter junior injury, like
(36:02):
the thunder and the Pacers look healthier than everybody. And
it's because they're super deep. As I mentioned before the series.
There before tonight, and I'm not sure if tonight's numbers
threw it off at all, there wasn't a single Pacer
averaging over thirty five minutes per game like they're just
they're able to dig deep into their bench and get
(36:22):
production and keep everyone's minutes. Now, I think that's a
I think that's a huge part of their ability to
survive these deep playffrons and pulling up the minutes per
game stats in the postseason real quick for the Thunder.
So for the Thunder, Shay is the only player playing
over thirty five minutes per game, thirty six point eight minutes.
Ja Dub's at thirty five. Every other Thunder player aside
(36:45):
from Shay and Jay Dubb, is playing less than thirty
minutes per game in this postseason, less than thirty. They're
all playing about half the game. Chet twenty nine point eight,
Lou Dort twenty six point eight, Isaiah Hartenstein twenty five
point three. This is all half the game. They're playing
half a playoff game. Meanwhile, everyone else is like, like
JJ Redicks, Like we're playing everybody all twenty four minutes
(37:05):
in the second half. Tom Thibodeau is playing his guys
nassive minutes. I think there are some realities to the
way that that depth is allowing them to survive the
war of attrition in the postseason. All right, guys, that's
all we have for tonight on YouTube. At least, we're
about to head over to playback so again that's playback
dot tv slash oops tonight, head over there right now.
We'll hang out for another forty five minutes or so,
(37:26):
just you know, taking callers talking about the game, getting
into some of the footage. Again, As always, as sincerely
appreciate you guys for supporting the show. We will be
having a film session tomorrow morning, so come back to
YouTube tomorrow early, like right around noon ish, and we
will have a film breakdown from Game one of the
Eastern Conference Finals. I'll see you guys in playback. Otherwise
I'll see you guys tomorrow morning. What's up guys. As always,
(37:48):
I appreciate you for listening to and supporting OOPS tonight.
They would actually be really helpful for us if you
guys would take a second and leave a rating and
a review. As always, I appreciate you guys supporting us,
but if you could take a minute to do that,
I really appreciate it. The volume
Speaker 2 (38:06):
M
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Come hang with Amy Poehler. Each week on her podcast, she'll welcome celebrities and fun people to her studio. They'll share stories about their careers, mutual friends, shared enthusiasms, and most importantly, what's been making them laugh. This podcast is not about trying to make you better or giving advice. Amy just wants to have a good time.