September 8, 2025 • 28 mins
Jason explains why he has Giannis Antetokounmpo as the number four player in the NBA, at the bottom of the top tier of superstars, and how he compares to the other elites in the game. Then he discusses why the Milwaukee Bucks trading Giannis to the Atlanta Hawks to pair with Trae Young could be a great move for both sides.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Volume. All right, welcome to him tonight here at
the Volume Heavy Monday, everybody. Hope all you guys had
a great weekend. We are continuing our player rankings today
(00:21):
with number four Jannis on Tennekompa. Then at the tail
end of the show, I was driving home from the
gym this morning. I'm back to playing regular basketball, which
feels fucking amazing. I'm not even gonna try to sugarcoat it.
I was listening to Zach Low on a beautiful day
in Colorado, looking at the Rockies, just a wonderful morning,
(00:42):
and then Zach pitched an idea that I can't get
out of my head now, And that's what if Giannis
ended up getting traded to the Atlanta Hawks. And obviously
Jannis is a buck for now and probably a buck
for this entire season. But it's more just a basketball
concept that I want to die into regarding the fit
between Trey Young and Yannis and some of the groundwork
(01:06):
that the Hawks have laid in recent years that I
think actually makes them a prime candidate to benefit from
a trade like that. So we'll talk about that at
the tail end of the show. You guys did the
Joe before we get started. Subscribe to Hoops to Night
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(01:27):
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and we'll get to them on our fridays throughout the
remainder of the summer. All right, let's talk some basketball.
We have officially made it to our top tier Superstar Tier,
(01:48):
and once again, just like has been the case through
each of the previous two tiers, you could literally list
these in any order, even more so than the last tier.
I'd say two through four are you could literally jumble
them in any case like I'd argue the case to
have Anthony Edwards over a guy like Donovan Mitchell, So
from top to bottom of that tier is much stronger
(02:12):
than the case to have like a Luca or an
Sga over Jannis. I think those three guys are very
much on the same level. So if you have Yannis
at two, or Luca at two or Shay at two,
if you have any of those guys at four, I
would understand. But I have Giannis at four. So let's
start with his last season in review. He played sixty
(02:33):
seven games, thirty points, twelve rebounds, and seven assists per game,
with two point one stocks, sixty percent from the field,
twenty two percent from three, sixty two percent from the line.
That's a sixty one percent effective field goal percentage waited
for threes and a sixty three percent true shooting percentage
when you add free throws into the mix. Another award
heavy season for Jannis, seventh consecutive top five MVP finish,
(02:57):
seventh consecutive First Team All NBA selection, ninth consecutive All
Star selection, and his seventh consecutive year finishing in the
top ten and Defensive Player of the Year voting. Now,
before we get into like where Jannis is at as
a basketball player right now, I want to start with
why I have Giannis ranked fourth, And again we're splitting
hairs here. I do not perceive much of a gap
(03:18):
between him and Luca and SGA. But my case for
putting Yannis at fourth centers around the idea that Shay
and Luca are both better offensive players than Jannis. And
as you guys know, even though I do factor in
the defensive end of the floor, to me, it's not
like a fifty to fifty weight. I think it is
much easier to build an elite defense around an elite
(03:41):
offensive player than it is to build an elite offense
around an elite defensive player. I should I should say
it's easier to to fabricate a defense that works around
an elite offensive player than it is to take an
elite defense and get them a bunch of great shots.
And so with that being the case, obviously Janis is
a great offensive player too. We're going to discuss that
(04:02):
in detail. But for me, the case for Giannis when
he was considered the best player in the world in
twenty twenty one, it centered around like an overwhelming physical dominance.
Right his case, he was a defensive Player of the
Year candidate, you finished second one year and first the
following year. He obviously is a dominant rebounder, just his overall,
(04:23):
you know, like like energizer bunny athleticism, right. But Jannis,
while he's made some slight improvements on offense, which we're
going to discuss, he's actually regressed quite a bit as
a physical force in the league relative to where he
was at his absolute peak. And here's a couple of
statistical examples. First, his durability. Last year, for the fifth
(04:46):
time in the last six years, Giannis failed to play
seventy games, and that's after he successfully played seventy games
in each of his first six seasons. He's also missed
playoff games due to injury eight of Milwaukee's last sixteen
playoff games. Giannis was a DNP over the last three seasons.
(05:06):
To his credit, when he's been available, he's consistently produced
at that top tier superstar level. But that's including this
year's playoff run where he was incredible. But the dependability
in the overall, just like two way dominance, is just
not quite what it once was. It's also showing up
(05:27):
in some basic statistical areas. He's cutting corners on defense
more than he used to. He used to be a
two and a half to three stocks per game kind
of guy. Now he's like a two stocks per game
kind of guy. Not too shocking. He's in his thirties now,
He's got to conserve his energy from time to time.
I still very much few Giannis as a game breaking
(05:47):
defensive talent when he needs to be in big spots.
But you aren't getting like the eighty two game monster
on the defensive end that you got five years ago,
and that is a factor. So when I look at
the fact that Shay and Luca are better offensive players,
the case for Yannis would have to center around that
overwhelming eighty two game defensive dominance, and I just don't
(06:11):
see that as as prominent as it used to be.
But again we're splitting hairs. To be clear, I'm not
arguing here that Jannis has substantially declined or that he
doesn't belong in this tier. He very clearly does. I
think he has a legit case for the number two spot.
There are just some factors that I've considered when deciding
to put Luca and Shae over him for this coming season.
(06:33):
His case used to be overwhelming two way physical dominance.
He's just experienced some slight declines in that department that
are giving those other guys the edge for now. Now,
let's talk about where Yannis is is a basketball player.
Starting with the offensive end of the floor. Jannis had
an extremely productive shot creation season last year, fueled by
improvements as a playmaker and as a shot maker for starters.
(06:56):
He shot thirty nine percent on jump shots last year.
He was nine percent better than the previous year and
far and away the best percentage of his career. His
previous high was actually just below thirty four percent, so
more than a five percent improvement on his previous career
high and overall jump shot percentage that was fueled by
cutting down on his three point volume and a substantial
(07:19):
improvement in the mid range. Yiannis has never been able
to establish that little left shoulder hook that I've been
begging him to establish over the course of his career,
but he has added the ability to knock down that
little mid range jump shot, primarily out of that left handed,
high hesitation dribble that he can rise up and knock down.
He made one hundred and fifteen of them last year
on forty three point four percent. Again, nothing that's going
(07:42):
to be the super reliable mid range short range shot
making that you see from the best scorers. In the league.
But certainly another element to his game that he's built out.
The playmaking piece has been fueled by Giannis's improved ball
handling and some chemistry with Brook, Lopez and Portis's cutters,
and embracing one of the big strengths of that Bucks roster.
(08:04):
That Bucks roster had a lot of laws, but they
were excellent jump shooting. The Bucks were actually the very
best catch and shoot team in the entire NBA last year,
getting one point two points per attempt on all of
their catch and shoot looks. So through continuity and just
that overall chemistry that he's built with his bigs, and
obviously Brooke is a very different player overall than Miles,
(08:24):
but they have some similarities as picking pop bigs, and
it'll take some time from the new workout there timing,
but I think that that'll be a similar type of
offensive fit that he should be able to capitalize on.
And then obviously Bobby reupt but through continuity and just
chemistry with those two guys and embracing the strength of
that roster and jump shooting, and honestly just him getting
(08:46):
really good at making the reads after lots and lots
of repetition. He's made substantial improvements as a playmaker over
the course of the last couple of years, and all
of us had mounted to some really impressive shot creation stats.
He was low volume and picked roll like he only
ran three hundred and seventy five in the regular season
last year, but he got one point one to three
points per possession. That's awesome. That's like a really good number.
(09:08):
Great variety here too, picking pops with Portis and Lopez.
He even had great chemistry with Lopez as a roller.
I was watching a bunch of Giannis pick and roll
tape this morning, and he just had so many examples
where he would like put the defender in jail and
like trap him on his backside and slowly work his
way down the lane waiting for Brook to rumble and
(09:29):
for his screen defender to kind of just step up
a touch too far and kind of hit Brook in
that gap before the low man stepped over. And he
just had a lot of really good reps with Brook
Lopez as a roller as well. Ghost screens with shooters,
just a shit ton of these. Whether it was Tori
and Prince or it was Gary Trent. The just sheer
(09:49):
number of reps that he got with shooters just running
up aj Green, just running up and slipping out to
the three point line. He got downhill a ton out
of those, a lot of like simple kickbacks. That was
like an advantage creation thing that kind of started the
engine of Milwaukee's offense. It was a super productive play type.
Giannis and pick and roll. Like I mentioned earlier, I
(10:11):
think it should continue to function well with Miles Turner.
I actually want to see his volume double at least
there this season. I think Giannis should run at least
seven hundred and fifty pick and rolls this year. I
think that's gonna be one of the markers that I'm
tracking with him. I just think, I just think it's
really easy offense. It's like, lean into point Giannis, your
light on ball handling. Lean into point Giannis. Let him
(10:32):
function more as an advantage creator. Those ghost screens. Just
slip pitch it back, let that dude drive the close out.
It's an easy way for Giannis to start an advantage
without really having to use too much energy. It was
also where he shot the best from three. Just having
the ball in his hand for a long time allowed
him to build rhythm and feel comfortable with the ball
in his hands. He was eight for sixteen on pull
(10:52):
up three's out of pick and roll last year. It
was one of the few places where he shot the
ball really well from the three point line. Super high
volume on ISO he was okay there. One point per possession.
It's above average, nothing exceptional, but one point per possession
including passes on four hundred and fifty two reps that
ranked tenth out of the twenty three players to log
at least two hundred and fifty ISOs last year. Super
(11:13):
high volume on post ups and he was really good there,
one point one to two points per possession on four
hundred and fifty reps that ranked fifth out of the
twelve players to log at least two hundred and fifty
post ups last year. The overall offensive development for Giannis
as a ball handler and as a shooter and as
a playmaker have allowed him to, I actually think improve
(11:34):
overall offensively, despite him not quite being the wrecking ball
of an athlete that he was in his younger years.
The Giannis of his back to back MVP seasons was
about sheer athletic force of will. This guy the twenty
twenty five to twenty twenty six version. He's not quite
the whirling dervish that he used to be, but he's
(11:56):
added enough polish and change of pace and overall just
unders standing of the game that I actually think he's
a better offensive player than he used to be by
a small margin. And the crazy thing is he's still
getting to the rim as much and as efficiently as
ever without needing to expend as much energy as he
used to. And a big part of that is he's
(12:16):
just way smarter about how he goes about it. I
was talking about passing yourself open, right Like past first players,
they need to score the ball enough to keep the
defense honest. That's an issue you're going to run into
with the Nikolay Jokicic's of the world. Like Lebron James
would have games like that in his prime sometimes where
he would just be like, yo, dude, I understand you're
making the right read, but the defense isn't reacting to
(12:39):
you enough because you're not punishing them enough as a
score right, Like, that's what pass first players need to
deal with. These downhill you know, I don't care if
it's a downhill guy or and over the top guy.
These score first players they need to pass the ball
enough to keep the defense honest and to keep the
floor spaced out. You add in a little change of pace,
(12:59):
added some improved ball handling moves, like little things like
Giannis has just gotten way better at, like getting his
defender to commit to jumping over the top of a
screen and then crossing back over, and like getting guys
caught in the in the blender there and all of
a sudden finding himself a runway, like different angles on
his drives and the timing on his drives, Like he's
just added all of those little details that's actually allowed
(13:22):
him to get to the rim again. Like he's still
over seventy percent on like crazy volume, and that's a
credit to him and just his overall development as an
offensive player. Now, there are two things that prevent Giannis
from reaching the level as an offensive player that the
players above him are. One is the gap in playmaking talent,
(13:43):
specifically with guys like Yokich and Luca, Like even with
Yannis's improvements, he's just not close to being next to
either of those guys as overall playmakers. And then the
second part of it, and this brings Sga into the
equation where he's above him as well, but also with
Luca and Jokic reliable short range shot making. When Giannis
(14:04):
is going against good to elite defenses in the half court,
especially in like big playoff spots where they start to scout,
really be prepared for everything, and they can successfully block
the rim off from him, and they have the athletes
to really close out to their shooters and spook them
and kind of force Giannis to hit shots over the top.
He still doesn't have a reliable hook shot and forty
(14:26):
three percent on pull up Midi's is good, but it's
not gonna cut it. That's zero point eighty six points
per possession, right. This is the recurring issue that Giannis
has had over the years and slow court, slowed down
half court environments, especially at the end of big playoff games,
and it's the reason why the other stars at the
at the top of the league have managed to slightly
pass him at this point in his career. In his
(14:48):
career and then on the defensive end, the criticisms I
have solely exist in the regular season context. His effort
and focus on that end isn't quite the same as
it once was when he won the Defensive Player of
the Year award, and that can prevent him from having
as much impact as he's capable of at times over
the eighty two. But in like Playoff Dead series, we're
(15:09):
in a big game and we need a bunch of stops,
like right now type of sequences. I still view Yannis
firmly in the top tier of defenders in this league,
and that's his leg up on Luca or Shay or
the folks, like the folks out there that want to
make the case that Yiannis is two. That's the case.
Jannis can reach a level defensively that can like really
(15:32):
change games, and that makes up for some of his
situational offensive limitations. Again the large sample, Jannis is as
efficient as shot creators you'll find in the league, but
in just these situational type of spots it can become
an issue. But Yannis's ability to break the game defensively
keeps him neck and neck with the guys who are
(15:54):
better than him in those very specific situational type of spots.
Bottom line with Giannis. Giannis may not have made the
skill improvements necessary to like really put the league in
a stranglehold, but he's improved enough to age gracefully as
one of the top tier superstars in this league, and
it gives me confidence that even as he gets into
his mid thirties, he's still going to be one of
(16:16):
those guys that's at the very least in that top
six or seven players in the league, because he just
has made the necessary improvements in a couple of key
areas to counteract his declining athleticism as he ages. The
only reasons he's slipped to the bottom of this tier
for me center around overall reliability with all the mileage
(16:37):
on his body as he enters into his thirties, in
his inconsistent defensive effort relative to his apex five years ago.
But to be very clear, Giannis is still very much
on that very short list of guys in this league
that are indomitable forces of nature, and he has a
very good case to be as high as number two
on this list. Him being at number four is as
(16:59):
much a testament to the depth of superstar talent that
we have in this league as anything else. Now, again,
for our second segment today, I wanted to discuss the
theoretical Yannis trade. We are extremely excited to announce our
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and Virginia. So again, Zechlo. I was listening to him
(18:47):
this morning and he was just kind of talking going
through a bunch of off season news, and he brought
up the Yiannis piece and he was talking about how
like for now, he's like looking around, but there's nothing
super tangible. We know all these teams are going to
probe the time comes. But he brought up Atlanta and
he brought up the fair point to bring up there,
which is, well, if it didn't work with Dames super well,
(19:09):
why would it work super well with Trey? And he
was just bringing that up as a talking point. He
didn't really dive into it. I don't think he is
revealing his take there. I would imagine if Zach expounded
up on that, he would probably agree with me that
Trey is a better fit. But that's what I kept
thinking when Zach brought that up. I thought, like, I
(19:30):
think Trey's a very different basketball player than they, and
I actually think flat out that is a substantially better
basketball fit with a substantially higher ceiling. Now, to be clear, again,
as we mentioned off the top, we know that Giannis
is most likely going to start the season with the Bucks.
(19:50):
I know that they're trying to make that work. I've
had this conversation with Bucks fans on the show before,
like it's just about acknowledging reality you probably can't win,
and if you probably can't win, and you're not close
to figuring out a way for him to win, and
he's entering into this like early mid thirties phase of
(20:11):
his career where you're gonna expect to see just a
tiny bit of a decline. It's kind of in the
best interest for everybody for him to get traded, so
and the best interest for Giannis because he's too damn
good to be on too limited of a roster like
the East is super weak and wide open, and it
feels like the Bucks can't win it, and like at
(20:33):
least they're in that firmly in that second tier of
contenders in the Eastern Conference where it feels like a
bunch of stuff would have to go right. And that
just feels like a shame for a player who is,
like we've talked about, firmly in the race for the
two spot in the NBA among players, and still firmly
in his prime there in his early thirties. And for
(20:55):
the Bucks right now, they have no future, and a
Yanis trade could be the vehicle with which to propel
your franchise into the next era of Bucks basketball. So again,
like I get it. I understand Bucks fans. You're probably like,
I don't even want to fucking talk about this right now,
and I understand that, but like I just I just
(21:18):
keep coming back to I think this is probably what's
for the best for both parties. So as we start
to look around the league, I have literally not been
able to stop thinking about Atlanta as a Yannis fit.
I think it's by far my favorite Yannis trade destination.
I like it because Atlanta's kind of a young, fun team,
that I have been super high on over the course
(21:41):
of this summer. I think Yannis would immediately propel them
into top tier championship contention. I think that the fit
on the roster is fantastic. Is fantastic, which we're going
to dive deeper into, and I think Atlanta can put
together a pretty nice package for it. I think the
package is something along the lines of Jalen Johnson and
(22:02):
yekakong Wu. The Hawks have a bunch of available first
round draft compensations, so they can load it up with picks.
All of a sudden. If you're Milwaukee, you get this
super exciting young player in Jalen Johnson who's athletic, and
we'll put it together highlight reels and will be a
really fun guy for the fan base to root for.
You have a legitimate first round draft compensation coming back
(22:25):
to restock your troves in that department. I think it
just makes a lot of sense. Now, let's dig into
the basketball, and I want to start with the Tray fit.
In theory, the Dame Giannis fit should have been better
than it was. And even though they experienced highs and
the Bucks had stretches where their offense looked amazing. It
(22:46):
just kind of felt like Dame and Yann has never
quite got to the level as a pick and roll
duo that they could have gotten to. I think part
of this is Dame in his age, Like if it's
thirty one year old Dame, it's probably a very different story.
I think part of it is just the play styles.
Dame has never been great at like change of pace
(23:11):
in ball screens, and I think he struggled with that
with Giannis as a role partner. In terms of actually
setting Yannis up with quality roleman opportunities, Dame had this
tendency to like just drive into the teeth of the
defense instead of kind of more methodically work and pick
and roll until the defense reacted to him so that
he could set Janus up with opportunities. I thought it
(23:33):
was even jarring how like Kevin Porter Junior seemed to
have like some immediate natural ability to get the ball
to Jannis in the pocket just because he played with
more pace in the screens, and like it just it
just never quite materialized the way it was supposed to.
I even thought there was like way too much Dame
Brook Lopez pick and pop and pick and roll because
(23:56):
of the fact that those two just seemed like more
of a natural fit as a partnership. I think Trey
would figure out how to be awesome with Giannis right away.
I think within weeks the two of them would be
cutting teams up. Trey is one of those guys that
has a couple of very glaring flaws that cause him
(24:18):
to slip down in player rankings conversations, and like, I've
had him outside of the top twenty five often. He
only broke in this year because of substantial injuries above
him on the list that I think. I can't remember
exactly where I had him, but I had him like
twenty four or twenty five in that range. And like like,
I obviously view Trey as a player that comes with
(24:38):
his downsides, and those downsides are obvious, clear defensive limitations
and competitiveness limitations on the defensive end of the floor,
and then on the offensive end, he's extremely susceptible to switching.
But outside of that, Tray's awesome. I view him as
a legitimate offensive engine and entirely different tier of overall
(25:02):
offensive weapon than Dame was at the point of his
career when he went to Milwaukee. I view him view
him as one of the top tier playmakers and passers
in this league. I view him as a guy that
would immediately figure out how to turn that partnership into
tons of awesome shots for both Yannis and for the
(25:24):
other role players within Atlanta. I think that Yannis we
talked about Porzingis as like a fit to kind of
help Trey with the susceptibility to switching. I think Jannis
is a super charged version of that. We went over
Giannis as one on one numbers earlier. He's one of
the better post up players in the league at volume.
Like I, I just think that fit makes a ton
(25:46):
of sense. To put it very simply, I think Trey
and Yannis would be a substantially better duo than Damon
Janis were, and then from there they have a really
well built roster for a Janis group. The Chris Tops
Porzingis fit. We've seen that Jannis had chemistry with pick
and pop bigs. We like the idea of having pick
(26:10):
and roll flexibility with Yannis and Christops on the floor together,
the ability to generate space with Christops as an above
the break three point shooter, a better version of what
Brook Lopez was in his time there. They've got that
depth of perimeter talent. So you can give up a
Jalen Johnson in that deal. And thankfully, Jalen makes thirty
million now, so he can take up a big chunk
(26:31):
of the salary that you need to send out. But
you can keep Zachary res Lache, and you can keep
Dyson Daniels, and you can keep Nikhil Alexander Walker, and
you can have like a depth of two way role
player talent surrounding the tray and Jannis duo. It even
fix the fixes one of the specific deficits on that
(26:51):
Atlanta Hawks roster. As much as I like that Atlanta
Hawks roster right now, they've got a deficit of ball handling.
It gets pretty dark once you get past Trey Jannis
has is gonna deal with a similar issue in Milwaukee
this year. It's a big part of why I've talked
about him increasing his pick and roll volume. Giannis would
come in and immediately fix their ball handling deficit because
(27:13):
of his ability to run action. With all the improvements
he's made it as a ball handler and as an
advantage creator in the league, I just think it's the
most fun Jannis going to some awesome team like Houston
or Oklahoma City or you know him, you know, getting
traded in New York to play for the Knicks. Like
any of those sorts of situations, they kind of feel
(27:36):
too obvious and too like they don't they lack some
of that intrigue. And Atlanta I just think would be
a super fun team for Giannis to go to. It
immediately reinvigorates Trey as one of the more influential players
in the league. It takes a fun young team and
propels them from a lower tier to an upper tier.
(28:00):
It makes the Eastern Conference. It maintains the strength of
the Eastern Conference. We don't want Giannis to go to
the West. He's the only top tier star in the
conference right now, and so, like I, if Yannis were
to get traded right now, I'm looking at Atlanta as
easily my favorite spot for him to go. I just
think it makes a ton of basketball sense. I've been
thinking about it all day. All right, guys, It's all
(28:22):
I have for today is always a sincerely appreciate you
guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We'll be
back on Wednesday with number three, and then we're tweaking
our format a bit this week. Instead of a mailbag
on Friday, we're gonna do number two and number one,
so we're gonna finish the list this week. I will
see you guys on a Wednesday.
The Volume. All right, welcome to him tonight here at
the Volume Heavy Monday, everybody. Hope all you guys had
a great weekend. We are continuing our player rankings today
(00:21):
with number four Jannis on Tennekompa. Then at the tail
end of the show, I was driving home from the
gym this morning. I'm back to playing regular basketball, which
feels fucking amazing. I'm not even gonna try to sugarcoat it.
I was listening to Zach Low on a beautiful day
in Colorado, looking at the Rockies, just a wonderful morning,
(00:42):
and then Zach pitched an idea that I can't get
out of my head now, And that's what if Giannis
ended up getting traded to the Atlanta Hawks. And obviously
Jannis is a buck for now and probably a buck
for this entire season. But it's more just a basketball
concept that I want to die into regarding the fit
between Trey Young and Yannis and some of the groundwork
(01:06):
that the Hawks have laid in recent years that I
think actually makes them a prime candidate to benefit from
a trade like that. So we'll talk about that at
the tail end of the show. You guys did the
Joe before we get started. Subscribe to Hoops to Night
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(01:27):
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you guys follow us over there. In the last but
not least, keep dropping mailbag questions in the YouTube comments
and we'll get to them on our fridays throughout the
remainder of the summer. All right, let's talk some basketball.
We have officially made it to our top tier Superstar Tier,
(01:48):
and once again, just like has been the case through
each of the previous two tiers, you could literally list
these in any order, even more so than the last tier.
I'd say two through four are you could literally jumble
them in any case like I'd argue the case to
have Anthony Edwards over a guy like Donovan Mitchell, So
from top to bottom of that tier is much stronger
(02:12):
than the case to have like a Luca or an
Sga over Jannis. I think those three guys are very
much on the same level. So if you have Yannis
at two, or Luca at two or Shay at two,
if you have any of those guys at four, I
would understand. But I have Giannis at four. So let's
start with his last season in review. He played sixty
(02:33):
seven games, thirty points, twelve rebounds, and seven assists per game,
with two point one stocks, sixty percent from the field,
twenty two percent from three, sixty two percent from the line.
That's a sixty one percent effective field goal percentage waited
for threes and a sixty three percent true shooting percentage
when you add free throws into the mix. Another award
heavy season for Jannis, seventh consecutive top five MVP finish,
(02:57):
seventh consecutive First Team All NBA selection, ninth consecutive All
Star selection, and his seventh consecutive year finishing in the
top ten and Defensive Player of the Year voting. Now,
before we get into like where Jannis is at as
a basketball player right now, I want to start with
why I have Giannis ranked fourth, And again we're splitting
hairs here. I do not perceive much of a gap
(03:18):
between him and Luca and SGA. But my case for
putting Yannis at fourth centers around the idea that Shay
and Luca are both better offensive players than Jannis. And
as you guys know, even though I do factor in
the defensive end of the floor, to me, it's not
like a fifty to fifty weight. I think it is
much easier to build an elite defense around an elite
(03:41):
offensive player than it is to build an elite offense
around an elite defensive player. I should I should say
it's easier to to fabricate a defense that works around
an elite offensive player than it is to take an
elite defense and get them a bunch of great shots.
And so with that being the case, obviously Janis is
a great offensive player too. We're going to discuss that
(04:02):
in detail. But for me, the case for Giannis when
he was considered the best player in the world in
twenty twenty one, it centered around like an overwhelming physical dominance.
Right his case, he was a defensive Player of the
Year candidate, you finished second one year and first the
following year. He obviously is a dominant rebounder, just his overall,
(04:23):
you know, like like energizer bunny athleticism, right. But Jannis,
while he's made some slight improvements on offense, which we're
going to discuss, he's actually regressed quite a bit as
a physical force in the league relative to where he
was at his absolute peak. And here's a couple of
statistical examples. First, his durability. Last year, for the fifth
(04:46):
time in the last six years, Giannis failed to play
seventy games, and that's after he successfully played seventy games
in each of his first six seasons. He's also missed
playoff games due to injury eight of Milwaukee's last sixteen
playoff games. Giannis was a DNP over the last three seasons.
(05:06):
To his credit, when he's been available, he's consistently produced
at that top tier superstar level. But that's including this
year's playoff run where he was incredible. But the dependability
in the overall, just like two way dominance, is just
not quite what it once was. It's also showing up
(05:27):
in some basic statistical areas. He's cutting corners on defense
more than he used to. He used to be a
two and a half to three stocks per game kind
of guy. Now he's like a two stocks per game
kind of guy. Not too shocking. He's in his thirties now,
He's got to conserve his energy from time to time.
I still very much few Giannis as a game breaking
(05:47):
defensive talent when he needs to be in big spots.
But you aren't getting like the eighty two game monster
on the defensive end that you got five years ago,
and that is a factor. So when I look at
the fact that Shay and Luca are better offensive players,
the case for Yannis would have to center around that
overwhelming eighty two game defensive dominance, and I just don't
(06:11):
see that as as prominent as it used to be.
But again we're splitting hairs. To be clear, I'm not
arguing here that Jannis has substantially declined or that he
doesn't belong in this tier. He very clearly does. I
think he has a legit case for the number two spot.
There are just some factors that I've considered when deciding
to put Luca and Shae over him for this coming season.
(06:33):
His case used to be overwhelming two way physical dominance.
He's just experienced some slight declines in that department that
are giving those other guys the edge for now. Now,
let's talk about where Yannis is is a basketball player.
Starting with the offensive end of the floor. Jannis had
an extremely productive shot creation season last year, fueled by
improvements as a playmaker and as a shot maker for starters.
(06:56):
He shot thirty nine percent on jump shots last year.
He was nine percent better than the previous year and
far and away the best percentage of his career. His
previous high was actually just below thirty four percent, so
more than a five percent improvement on his previous career
high and overall jump shot percentage that was fueled by
cutting down on his three point volume and a substantial
(07:19):
improvement in the mid range. Yiannis has never been able
to establish that little left shoulder hook that I've been
begging him to establish over the course of his career,
but he has added the ability to knock down that
little mid range jump shot, primarily out of that left handed,
high hesitation dribble that he can rise up and knock down.
He made one hundred and fifteen of them last year
on forty three point four percent. Again, nothing that's going
(07:42):
to be the super reliable mid range short range shot
making that you see from the best scorers. In the league.
But certainly another element to his game that he's built out.
The playmaking piece has been fueled by Giannis's improved ball
handling and some chemistry with Brook, Lopez and Portis's cutters,
and embracing one of the big strengths of that Bucks roster.
(08:04):
That Bucks roster had a lot of laws, but they
were excellent jump shooting. The Bucks were actually the very
best catch and shoot team in the entire NBA last year,
getting one point two points per attempt on all of
their catch and shoot looks. So through continuity and just
that overall chemistry that he's built with his bigs, and
obviously Brooke is a very different player overall than Miles,
(08:24):
but they have some similarities as picking pop bigs, and
it'll take some time from the new workout there timing,
but I think that that'll be a similar type of
offensive fit that he should be able to capitalize on.
And then obviously Bobby reupt but through continuity and just
chemistry with those two guys and embracing the strength of
that roster and jump shooting, and honestly just him getting
(08:46):
really good at making the reads after lots and lots
of repetition. He's made substantial improvements as a playmaker over
the course of the last couple of years, and all
of us had mounted to some really impressive shot creation stats.
He was low volume and picked roll like he only
ran three hundred and seventy five in the regular season
last year, but he got one point one to three
points per possession. That's awesome. That's like a really good number.
(09:08):
Great variety here too, picking pops with Portis and Lopez.
He even had great chemistry with Lopez as a roller.
I was watching a bunch of Giannis pick and roll
tape this morning, and he just had so many examples
where he would like put the defender in jail and
like trap him on his backside and slowly work his
way down the lane waiting for Brook to rumble and
(09:29):
for his screen defender to kind of just step up
a touch too far and kind of hit Brook in
that gap before the low man stepped over. And he
just had a lot of really good reps with Brook
Lopez as a roller as well. Ghost screens with shooters,
just a shit ton of these. Whether it was Tori
and Prince or it was Gary Trent. The just sheer
(09:49):
number of reps that he got with shooters just running
up aj Green, just running up and slipping out to
the three point line. He got downhill a ton out
of those, a lot of like simple kickbacks. That was
like an advantage creation thing that kind of started the
engine of Milwaukee's offense. It was a super productive play type.
Giannis and pick and roll. Like I mentioned earlier, I
(10:11):
think it should continue to function well with Miles Turner.
I actually want to see his volume double at least
there this season. I think Giannis should run at least
seven hundred and fifty pick and rolls this year. I
think that's gonna be one of the markers that I'm
tracking with him. I just think, I just think it's
really easy offense. It's like, lean into point Giannis, your
light on ball handling. Lean into point Giannis. Let him
(10:32):
function more as an advantage creator. Those ghost screens. Just
slip pitch it back, let that dude drive the close out.
It's an easy way for Giannis to start an advantage
without really having to use too much energy. It was
also where he shot the best from three. Just having
the ball in his hand for a long time allowed
him to build rhythm and feel comfortable with the ball
in his hands. He was eight for sixteen on pull
(10:52):
up three's out of pick and roll last year. It
was one of the few places where he shot the
ball really well from the three point line. Super high
volume on ISO he was okay there. One point per possession.
It's above average, nothing exceptional, but one point per possession
including passes on four hundred and fifty two reps that
ranked tenth out of the twenty three players to log
at least two hundred and fifty ISOs last year. Super
(11:13):
high volume on post ups and he was really good there,
one point one to two points per possession on four
hundred and fifty reps that ranked fifth out of the
twelve players to log at least two hundred and fifty
post ups last year. The overall offensive development for Giannis
as a ball handler and as a shooter and as
a playmaker have allowed him to, I actually think improve
(11:34):
overall offensively, despite him not quite being the wrecking ball
of an athlete that he was in his younger years.
The Giannis of his back to back MVP seasons was
about sheer athletic force of will. This guy the twenty
twenty five to twenty twenty six version. He's not quite
the whirling dervish that he used to be, but he's
(11:56):
added enough polish and change of pace and overall just
unders standing of the game that I actually think he's
a better offensive player than he used to be by
a small margin. And the crazy thing is he's still
getting to the rim as much and as efficiently as
ever without needing to expend as much energy as he
used to. And a big part of that is he's
(12:16):
just way smarter about how he goes about it. I
was talking about passing yourself open, right Like past first players,
they need to score the ball enough to keep the
defense honest. That's an issue you're going to run into
with the Nikolay Jokicic's of the world. Like Lebron James
would have games like that in his prime sometimes where
he would just be like, yo, dude, I understand you're
making the right read, but the defense isn't reacting to
(12:39):
you enough because you're not punishing them enough as a
score right, Like, that's what pass first players need to
deal with. These downhill you know, I don't care if
it's a downhill guy or and over the top guy.
These score first players they need to pass the ball
enough to keep the defense honest and to keep the
floor spaced out. You add in a little change of pace,
(12:59):
added some improved ball handling moves, like little things like
Giannis has just gotten way better at, like getting his
defender to commit to jumping over the top of a
screen and then crossing back over, and like getting guys
caught in the in the blender there and all of
a sudden finding himself a runway, like different angles on
his drives and the timing on his drives, Like he's
just added all of those little details that's actually allowed
(13:22):
him to get to the rim again. Like he's still
over seventy percent on like crazy volume, and that's a
credit to him and just his overall development as an
offensive player. Now, there are two things that prevent Giannis
from reaching the level as an offensive player that the
players above him are. One is the gap in playmaking talent,
(13:43):
specifically with guys like Yokich and Luca, Like even with
Yannis's improvements, he's just not close to being next to
either of those guys as overall playmakers. And then the
second part of it, and this brings Sga into the
equation where he's above him as well, but also with
Luca and Jokic reliable short range shot making. When Giannis
(14:04):
is going against good to elite defenses in the half court,
especially in like big playoff spots where they start to scout,
really be prepared for everything, and they can successfully block
the rim off from him, and they have the athletes
to really close out to their shooters and spook them
and kind of force Giannis to hit shots over the top.
He still doesn't have a reliable hook shot and forty
(14:26):
three percent on pull up Midi's is good, but it's
not gonna cut it. That's zero point eighty six points
per possession, right. This is the recurring issue that Giannis
has had over the years and slow court, slowed down
half court environments, especially at the end of big playoff games,
and it's the reason why the other stars at the
at the top of the league have managed to slightly
pass him at this point in his career. In his
(14:48):
career and then on the defensive end, the criticisms I
have solely exist in the regular season context. His effort
and focus on that end isn't quite the same as
it once was when he won the Defensive Player of
the Year award, and that can prevent him from having
as much impact as he's capable of at times over
the eighty two. But in like Playoff Dead series, we're
(15:09):
in a big game and we need a bunch of stops,
like right now type of sequences. I still view Yannis
firmly in the top tier of defenders in this league,
and that's his leg up on Luca or Shay or
the folks, like the folks out there that want to
make the case that Yiannis is two. That's the case.
Jannis can reach a level defensively that can like really
(15:32):
change games, and that makes up for some of his
situational offensive limitations. Again the large sample, Jannis is as
efficient as shot creators you'll find in the league, but
in just these situational type of spots it can become
an issue. But Yannis's ability to break the game defensively
keeps him neck and neck with the guys who are
(15:54):
better than him in those very specific situational type of spots.
Bottom line with Giannis. Giannis may not have made the
skill improvements necessary to like really put the league in
a stranglehold, but he's improved enough to age gracefully as
one of the top tier superstars in this league, and
it gives me confidence that even as he gets into
his mid thirties, he's still going to be one of
(16:16):
those guys that's at the very least in that top
six or seven players in the league, because he just
has made the necessary improvements in a couple of key
areas to counteract his declining athleticism as he ages. The
only reasons he's slipped to the bottom of this tier
for me center around overall reliability with all the mileage
(16:37):
on his body as he enters into his thirties, in
his inconsistent defensive effort relative to his apex five years ago.
But to be very clear, Giannis is still very much
on that very short list of guys in this league
that are indomitable forces of nature, and he has a
very good case to be as high as number two
on this list. Him being at number four is as
(16:59):
much a testament to the depth of superstar talent that
we have in this league as anything else. Now, again,
for our second segment today, I wanted to discuss the
theoretical Yannis trade. We are extremely excited to announce our
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and Virginia. So again, Zechlo. I was listening to him
(18:47):
this morning and he was just kind of talking going
through a bunch of off season news, and he brought
up the Yiannis piece and he was talking about how
like for now, he's like looking around, but there's nothing
super tangible. We know all these teams are going to
probe the time comes. But he brought up Atlanta and
he brought up the fair point to bring up there,
which is, well, if it didn't work with Dames super well,
(19:09):
why would it work super well with Trey? And he
was just bringing that up as a talking point. He
didn't really dive into it. I don't think he is
revealing his take there. I would imagine if Zach expounded
up on that, he would probably agree with me that
Trey is a better fit. But that's what I kept
thinking when Zach brought that up. I thought, like, I
(19:30):
think Trey's a very different basketball player than they, and
I actually think flat out that is a substantially better
basketball fit with a substantially higher ceiling. Now, to be clear, again,
as we mentioned off the top, we know that Giannis
is most likely going to start the season with the Bucks.
(19:50):
I know that they're trying to make that work. I've
had this conversation with Bucks fans on the show before,
like it's just about acknowledging reality you probably can't win,
and if you probably can't win, and you're not close
to figuring out a way for him to win, and
he's entering into this like early mid thirties phase of
(20:11):
his career where you're gonna expect to see just a
tiny bit of a decline. It's kind of in the
best interest for everybody for him to get traded, so
and the best interest for Giannis because he's too damn
good to be on too limited of a roster like
the East is super weak and wide open, and it
feels like the Bucks can't win it, and like at
(20:33):
least they're in that firmly in that second tier of
contenders in the Eastern Conference where it feels like a
bunch of stuff would have to go right. And that
just feels like a shame for a player who is,
like we've talked about, firmly in the race for the
two spot in the NBA among players, and still firmly
in his prime there in his early thirties. And for
(20:55):
the Bucks right now, they have no future, and a
Yanis trade could be the vehicle with which to propel
your franchise into the next era of Bucks basketball. So again,
like I get it. I understand Bucks fans. You're probably like,
I don't even want to fucking talk about this right now,
and I understand that, but like I just I just
(21:18):
keep coming back to I think this is probably what's
for the best for both parties. So as we start
to look around the league, I have literally not been
able to stop thinking about Atlanta as a Yannis fit.
I think it's by far my favorite Yannis trade destination.
I like it because Atlanta's kind of a young, fun team,
that I have been super high on over the course
(21:41):
of this summer. I think Yannis would immediately propel them
into top tier championship contention. I think that the fit
on the roster is fantastic. Is fantastic, which we're going
to dive deeper into, and I think Atlanta can put
together a pretty nice package for it. I think the
package is something along the lines of Jalen Johnson and
(22:02):
yekakong Wu. The Hawks have a bunch of available first
round draft compensations, so they can load it up with picks.
All of a sudden. If you're Milwaukee, you get this
super exciting young player in Jalen Johnson who's athletic, and
we'll put it together highlight reels and will be a
really fun guy for the fan base to root for.
You have a legitimate first round draft compensation coming back
(22:25):
to restock your troves in that department. I think it
just makes a lot of sense. Now, let's dig into
the basketball, and I want to start with the Tray fit.
In theory, the Dame Giannis fit should have been better
than it was. And even though they experienced highs and
the Bucks had stretches where their offense looked amazing. It
(22:46):
just kind of felt like Dame and Yann has never
quite got to the level as a pick and roll
duo that they could have gotten to. I think part
of this is Dame in his age, Like if it's
thirty one year old Dame, it's probably a very different story.
I think part of it is just the play styles.
Dame has never been great at like change of pace
(23:11):
in ball screens, and I think he struggled with that
with Giannis as a role partner. In terms of actually
setting Yannis up with quality roleman opportunities, Dame had this
tendency to like just drive into the teeth of the
defense instead of kind of more methodically work and pick
and roll until the defense reacted to him so that
he could set Janus up with opportunities. I thought it
(23:33):
was even jarring how like Kevin Porter Junior seemed to
have like some immediate natural ability to get the ball
to Jannis in the pocket just because he played with
more pace in the screens, and like it just it
just never quite materialized the way it was supposed to.
I even thought there was like way too much Dame
Brook Lopez pick and pop and pick and roll because
(23:56):
of the fact that those two just seemed like more
of a natural fit as a partnership. I think Trey
would figure out how to be awesome with Giannis right away.
I think within weeks the two of them would be
cutting teams up. Trey is one of those guys that
has a couple of very glaring flaws that cause him
(24:18):
to slip down in player rankings conversations, and like, I've
had him outside of the top twenty five often. He
only broke in this year because of substantial injuries above
him on the list that I think. I can't remember
exactly where I had him, but I had him like
twenty four or twenty five in that range. And like like,
I obviously view Trey as a player that comes with
(24:38):
his downsides, and those downsides are obvious, clear defensive limitations
and competitiveness limitations on the defensive end of the floor,
and then on the offensive end, he's extremely susceptible to switching.
But outside of that, Tray's awesome. I view him as
a legitimate offensive engine and entirely different tier of overall
(25:02):
offensive weapon than Dame was at the point of his
career when he went to Milwaukee. I view him view
him as one of the top tier playmakers and passers
in this league. I view him as a guy that
would immediately figure out how to turn that partnership into
tons of awesome shots for both Yannis and for the
(25:24):
other role players within Atlanta. I think that Yannis we
talked about Porzingis as like a fit to kind of
help Trey with the susceptibility to switching. I think Jannis
is a super charged version of that. We went over
Giannis as one on one numbers earlier. He's one of
the better post up players in the league at volume.
Like I, I just think that fit makes a ton
(25:46):
of sense. To put it very simply, I think Trey
and Yannis would be a substantially better duo than Damon
Janis were, and then from there they have a really
well built roster for a Janis group. The Chris Tops
Porzingis fit. We've seen that Jannis had chemistry with pick
and pop bigs. We like the idea of having pick
(26:10):
and roll flexibility with Yannis and Christops on the floor together,
the ability to generate space with Christops as an above
the break three point shooter, a better version of what
Brook Lopez was in his time there. They've got that
depth of perimeter talent. So you can give up a
Jalen Johnson in that deal. And thankfully, Jalen makes thirty
million now, so he can take up a big chunk
(26:31):
of the salary that you need to send out. But
you can keep Zachary res Lache, and you can keep
Dyson Daniels, and you can keep Nikhil Alexander Walker, and
you can have like a depth of two way role
player talent surrounding the tray and Jannis duo. It even
fix the fixes one of the specific deficits on that
(26:51):
Atlanta Hawks roster. As much as I like that Atlanta
Hawks roster right now, they've got a deficit of ball handling.
It gets pretty dark once you get past Trey Jannis
has is gonna deal with a similar issue in Milwaukee
this year. It's a big part of why I've talked
about him increasing his pick and roll volume. Giannis would
come in and immediately fix their ball handling deficit because
(27:13):
of his ability to run action. With all the improvements
he's made it as a ball handler and as an
advantage creator in the league, I just think it's the
most fun Jannis going to some awesome team like Houston
or Oklahoma City or you know him, you know, getting
traded in New York to play for the Knicks. Like
any of those sorts of situations, they kind of feel
(27:36):
too obvious and too like they don't they lack some
of that intrigue. And Atlanta I just think would be
a super fun team for Giannis to go to. It
immediately reinvigorates Trey as one of the more influential players
in the league. It takes a fun young team and
propels them from a lower tier to an upper tier.
(28:00):
It makes the Eastern Conference. It maintains the strength of
the Eastern Conference. We don't want Giannis to go to
the West. He's the only top tier star in the
conference right now, and so, like I, if Yannis were
to get traded right now, I'm looking at Atlanta as
easily my favorite spot for him to go. I just
think it makes a ton of basketball sense. I've been
thinking about it all day. All right, guys, It's all
(28:22):
I have for today is always a sincerely appreciate you
guys for supporting us and supporting the show. We'll be
back on Wednesday with number three, and then we're tweaking
our format a bit this week. Instead of a mailbag
on Friday, we're gonna do number two and number one,
so we're gonna finish the list this week. I will
see you guys on a Wednesday.
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Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.