July 9, 2025 • 42 mins
Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin
Angel Reese on NBA2K cover over Caitlin Clark and why this was the wrong choice
NBA reporter Anthony Slater about the hype surrounding Cooper Flagg’s debut at the Summer League when he faces off against Bronny James
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What Up. Welcome in this ergs the Herd, wherever you
may be and however you may be making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I've done gottlieb in
for Colin Cowherd and for the next couple of hours,
I want to talk sports with you from Powway to
Escodnito to oh Time Mesa. Welcome in, Good to be
(00:53):
back on in La on AM five seventy the home Peeps,
and all throughout the country on the iHeart family of
networks as well as the iHeartRadio Welcome Bookman. So in
the I was today years old that I learned, right,
You learn lots of things. It's weird as you get older.
(01:14):
Right now, I coach college kids' head coach of Wisconsin
Green Bay and it again, I have a really good
group of young men that want to learn want to
get better at basketball. We try and teach them about
life a little bit. And you know, college is just
in a weird sort of phase where so many schools
(01:37):
because of COVID went online, and then you factor in chat,
GPT and everything else. How much are kids actually learning?
But the biggest difference between a kid in an adult
I think there's two or three things. Right, Like, you
know you're an adult when you never turn down a
(01:58):
n app. It never turned out a nap. I mean,
ask tuy and and even Ryan who doesn't have kids.
If you go like, hey, man, two o'clock, what if
I if I give you like an hour to shut
off your phone and take a nap, there isn't an
adult life that'll be like, yeh, down for that. A kid,
(02:19):
you say, hey, take a nap. You know, after you
get to like two years old, you're done with naps. Adults, well, adults,
they will order vegetables or order salads or actually ask
for them for dinner. Most kids like, what why you
have to make them eat vegetables, make them eat legomes,
(02:43):
make them eat eat fruits. Right, that's the difference in adults.
And the other thing about adults as opposed to kids
is I don't know if you're like this when you
do the whole You know, you help your kid with
their homework, But man, you get to a certain age
and you're like, man, I kind of like learning. Maybe
it was how we were taught, Maybe it was the teachers,
(03:04):
maybe it was our desire to do other things. But
I remember being in school and I just could not
wait for every day to be over, as opposed to now. Damn,
I love learning things. I just do. Sunday I learned
that a handball in soccer was not just simply the
(03:24):
ball touching a non goalkeeper's hand. I literally Monday, I
walked in and I was like, man, I didn't know
that the ball could graze your hand, and if it
was in the natural motion of whatever you were doing
as an athlete in soccer, it didn't mean it was
(03:45):
a handball. I don't know, did anybody know that. I mean,
I'm sure like soccer guys like, yeah, you're dope. Hey,
I played soccer growing up. I don't remember any of
that stuff. I just remember the tunnel, I remember Capri's son,
I remember scoring goals. I you know, I don't remember
any of that. So I love learning, and I'll tell
(04:09):
you something I learned today. Okay, there was a playwright
in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds, mostly seventeen hundreds. His
name was William Congreeve. You're like, why are you telling
me about a playwright, because he's the one who authored
up the phrase, hell hath no fury like a woman scorn,
(04:33):
hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn. Have you
ever heard that? If you haven't heard that, when I bet?
He also said you must not kiss and tell, so
kiss and tell, and hell hath no worries, hell hath
no wrath like a scorned woman. That's that we changed
the words, that changed the order of it, right we
(04:56):
hell hath no furry like a woman scorn. That was w.
Wiam Congreve, who is a famous playwright in the sixteen
and seventeen hundreds, born in sixteen seventy died in seventeen
twenty nine, And like, why are you starting out with that? Saying, well,
I'll tell you. I also learned that apparently there's not
(05:19):
a true standalone version of it, but a video game
within a video game for EA Sports. So EA Sports
has two k or is it EA sports has two K.
You're familiar with two K, okay, so apparently there's also
a WNBA version of two K, And I get it right,
(05:42):
Like what is two K? If you take away all
the dunks and the made layups and three points and
the high percentage of made three point shots, and you
have WNBA. But there is no denying the WNBA's sudden
rise in popularity. And for the those of us who
are honest with ourselves, it's because of Kaitlyn Clark. And
(06:06):
you know, we can get into the reasons why I
love the people that fall on the race aspect of it.
When then you point out, like, hey, Sabrina in Escu
and Kelsey Plumb were great women's college basketball players who
came to the league had have been great WNBA players,
and they have not received any amount of the acclaim
(06:27):
of a Caitlin Clark. There's a bunch of different factors,
mostly likely the logo threes, the hey we love Steph Curry.
And here's the closest version of it. Who happened to
play the same school for four years, happened to take
her to a team to two straight final fours, happened
looks like everybody else's little sister, right, all of those
(06:50):
things she kind of nails. But upon my quest to
learn something every day, I found that there's an NBA
two K version focusing on the WNBA. But here's the kicker.
The cover choice was Angel Rees was Angel Rees. And
(07:15):
it just continues this pattern of the WNBA doing everything
in their power to I don't know if it's diminished
Caitlin Clark or to promote everybody other than Kaitlin Clark,
but whatever it is, we try and search for reasons,
(07:37):
and I keep falling back on hell. Hath no wrath,
like a woman scorned William Cornelius in the late sixteen hundreds,
and like, wait a second, why are they scored? Caitlin
Clark said nothing negative towards any of these women. She
doesn't have to. The only logical conclusion as to why
(07:59):
so many of these women have done everything in their
power to marginalize, horise to fame and what it's done
for the entire sport of women's basketball is that you
have women that feel like they've been scorned by media,
by mainstream fans for their entire lives, and it it
(08:24):
comes out as anger and resentment towards Caitlin Clark. Does
that make sense. There's something called the Have you ever
heard the anger Iceberg? If you go through therapy, people
tell you it's you learn the anger Iceberg that people
are angry and they get snappy with one of the
other in like relationships, and it's not about that one thing.
(08:48):
It's about all this other thing, all the insecurities, all
the mistrust, all the times of other relationships that have
gone bad, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, And it
comes out as snappiness towards one another. And any relationship
you have, even in business, you pocket resentment towards somebody
(09:09):
else getting in promotion, somebody else getting shine, You not
feeling like you're heard in a meeting, you having a
bad interaction with somebody at a Christmas party or whatever.
For these women, okay, remember I see it as most
of us see it. I'm Doug Gottliebin for Collin. This
(09:30):
is the herd twenty five years of the WNBA. I'm
not as negative about their overall talent and skill as
others are. It's a different sport. Our expectations are different.
We don't have the one hundred years of history in
the NBA. We just don't if you take away the
NBA with the dunks and the proficiency from three point line,
(09:54):
you know. And the other part about NBA players is
they look like superheroes, whereas many of those women though
for women, crazy athletic, crazy talented, there just is no comparison.
When you watch one game together, it's like watching one
in slow motion and one that plays below the rim,
and below the rim causes more mislay ups, and it's
(10:17):
again just a different, much less athletic game. And for
twenty five years, we didn't pay attention to it in
sports media, and I've been a part of sports media
for twenty five years. We didn't pay attention to it
because nobody did the science to this is not that
(10:38):
hard to figure out, Gollen. This is me doing the
Colin thing. Gollen. You only want to talk about Tom
Brady and Pat Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers and Lebron James. Yeah,
because we're no different than top forty radio man play
the hits. Our job is to talk about what most
(10:59):
people care about, and we have twenty five years of
data that tells you most people don't care about the WNBA.
And the only reason we're talking about it now is
because Caitlin Clark has brought attention and people are in
fact talking about the WNBA now, So now we're going
to be attractive talking more about it. But when you're
(11:20):
raised as a women's basketball player, you're raised to believe
everybody's out to get you. Everybody's out to get you. Okay, Look,
I don't know if you recall, but if you go
back to the COVID year NCAA tournament, they had women
(11:44):
who were in San Antonio and they had a little
makeshift weight room and it was like, you know, two
dumbells and you know, and a balance ball. And then
they showed the men's weight room in Indianapolis and it
looked like it we're a weight room. And what happens is,
(12:06):
you know, the the NCAA like apologize for it. It
acts like this was this was discrediting all of women's basketball.
When reality is one, it comes down to the planning committee.
That's what they have to do. Two, the men's teams,
I believe all of them were there for like a month,
so they had to prep for it, and they had
the Big Ten tournament there, so they had all this
(12:29):
had all been kind of planned out, whereas for San Antonio,
it was just a one stop shop and they threw
it together. And anybody who's ever traveled knows that, like,
it doesn't matter the hotel chain. You can be a
Hyatt guy, right or a Bonvoy guy, and and some
hotels have a rinking, dank weight room and some hotels don't.
It doesn't have anything to do with anything other than
(12:50):
that particular hotel, that particular general manager and what they
think they want to focus their resources on. But the
point is that that case is no different than anything else.
Why do women have home sites during the NCAA tournament
instead of the regional sites that the men have. Well, again,
anyone who's realistic in business knows that the reason they
(13:12):
went back to home sites is that's their only ability
to draw people and to sell tickets. They've played in
the big arenas. It hasn't worked, by and large. Trust me,
if the NCAAFL like they can make more money doing it,
they would do it because it's the only way in
which they make money is the men's and women's NCAA
basketball tournaments. But again, how you and I view it
(13:36):
from a business perspective, which is very much in the
neutral kind of corner is, hey, they're doing it because
it makes the most sense financially. How women view it is, oh,
we're a secondary tournament. We have to play in home sites. Right,
So it doesn't matter necessarily what the reality of women's
(13:58):
basketball was over the last one five years, right, that
you started from nothing and built it into something that
was fairly sustainable. Again, those of us who lived it
in real time, as I have, like my media career,
has mirrored essentially the length of the WNBA. You went
from being completely subsidized by the NBA playing in these
gargantuan arenas to hey, let's dial this back, play in
(14:21):
smaller venues, be smarter, Okay, save more money, fly commercial
space out the games, et cetera, et cetera. But how
it's received is we've been treated like crap for years
and now you're trying to push this star who she
might be another Jeremy Lynn linsanity, and we're not buying it.
(14:46):
So when I saw that quote today, I just and
then I saw that the two K version of NBA
two K had Angel Rees Caitlyn Clark on the cover. Right,
Because again, whether or not you're buying or I'm buying
(15:07):
a WNBA two K game. Doesn't matter right, Everything would
be boosted up if you put Caitlin Clark on. It
probably cost you know, the gaming company more to put
her on the cover. But the WNBA forcing us to
take on Angel Reese as some sort of rival to
(15:30):
Caitlin Clark, forcing it, forcing it, forcing it makes it
feel icky, whereas it's super easy here. Just put Caitlin
Clark on everything. It'll sell more. It'll be the rising
tide that lifts all ships. But from the Olympic team
last year to the players only voting where they voted
her the ninth best guard, to put an Angel Reese
(15:55):
on NBA two K, to all the bitterness and push
back and the treatment of Caitlyn Clark where they're clearly
trying to punk her and bully her and her teammates,
and to making and look bad. All of that stuff
leads most of us to go, why would you do that?
Why wouldn't you embrace the fact that people are paying
(16:18):
attention to your sport, covering it like it's one of
the big three sports. Probably got more coverage in the
NHL Stanley Cup playoffs, and the only logical conclusion I
can come to is hell hath no wrath like as
a woman scored all the years of being made to
feel like you're a secondary or tertiary product, and probably
(16:42):
even tertiary's not as strong as they were. Leads women
to push back against anything seen as mainstream media and fans.
Oh now you like us, but only for her Well
put to you two. Now give me your thoughts Twitter,
Instagram at Gottlieb Show. In the meantime, okay, we do
(17:04):
have some NBA news chet Holmegrin, reups for the Max,
reups for the Max. What does that mean for the
Thunder and their ability to maintain the best record in
the regular season and a postseason championship. Let's discuss it next.
(17:26):
I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Hurd.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Hey, what's up everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Harrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game? What is up on Game?
You asked, along with my fellow pro Bowler, TJ. Huschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris,
you can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
(18:00):
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with me lebar Arrington, TJ. Houchman, Zada,
and Plexico Birds on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
From Doug otliebit Per Collinis, the Hurt Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio app. Welcome in. Uh so the big news in
the NBA today as we get ready for real NBA
(18:39):
Summer League, which is Las Vegas. Yes again, and I'm
it may sound disrespectful for the I forget where the
California Golden State games are. Is the one everyone hyper
focuses on is in Las Vegas. Uh And we'll we'll
get to that upcoming in the show because the Lakers
play yesterday. The Lakers are the signature nightcap in the
(19:04):
Summer League opening night against the Dallas Mavericks. And of
course the Dallas Mavericks have the number one overall pick
and the Lakers have Brownie James and it's a it's
it'll be something. But let's let's dig in with Anthony Slater,
of course covers the league for the Athletic. He joins
us now in the herd. Anthony, let me let me
(19:25):
ask you about Chet holmbern So announce today that Chet
Holmgren agrees to terms on a max contract, on a
max contract to remain in Oklahoma City. And he's really
only played like a season and a half. If you're
an Oklahoma City fan or you're hopeful of a dynasty
there does what does this do for you?
Speaker 5 (19:47):
I mean, I think it's just checked the box that
you knew was coming. And the other the one that's
coming soon is gonna be Jalen Williams, who has the
same agent, Bill Duffy, which I'm sure you know helps
and leveraging negotiations. But you know, Jalen Williams gonna get
his max, and his max if he's makes all NBA again,
would actually be even higher than chests. And you know
we're talking about rookie max is. I know sometimes we
(20:09):
just everybody just says max. They're different, you know, percentages
of the cap and this is you know, the fresher one.
But you know, you're you're getting the next six years
of Chet Holmers early prime into his prime. Sure he's
not your you know, prototype number two certainly as a score,
I think he's got higher upside there. But I mean
he's a rim protecting three point shooter at seven feet tall.
(20:31):
To me, like you know, that is a very valuable
piece for a team that wants to win with defense first.
And you saw it in the play you know, we can,
we can kind of at times. I certainly did you
know their first playoff run together when they lost in
the second round, and though they're the one seed, I
kind of wondered if Jayley Williams and Chet Hoolmer could
be a legitimate number two, number three on a title team.
(20:52):
Well that question kind of was answered a month ago.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think the question for for Chet
is twofold one. Can he stay healthy? Yeah, right, that's
the big thing case a healthy and then at some
point Kenny regained confidence in his shooting.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Yeah, fairly. I mean, yeah, it's a it's a it's
a good question. But I think even the version of
Chet you saw really impacts winning. You know, it's he's
going to protect the rim at a high level. There
was times even in those finals. You know, I can
remember in a couple of the losses, certainly you know,
his his shooting, you know, I think he went too
(21:26):
and nine in the game one loss and was really
hard on himself. And I remember late in one of
the games in Indiana, Miles Turner kind of you know,
wiped away a couple of his shots, and and those
flaws seem to you know, percolate a little bit. But
also I can remember.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Him, like, you know, walling off the rim.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
In important stretches of those finals. But yes, if he
like he has the next level to get to, that
I think I would agree with you that his health
will determine because he spent all last summer really kind
of like grinding and getting his offense, I think to
a higher level. I think I went to their opening
night game in Denver and he like outplayed you kids.
I think he had like twenty five fourteen and five blocks.
(22:03):
And then about two weeks later, I'm at a game
in Oklahoma City and Andrew Wiggins just plows through him
and he breaks his hip and then he's bedridden for
six weeks. He's out for you know, fifty games whatever,
he ended up missing last season. I think that really
stunted his offensive growth. But yeah, I would agree that
long term for him to like probably be worth that contract.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
When we're in the middle years.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And you know, you're talking fifty million or whatever it's
going to be, you'd want him, you know, eighteen nineteen
per game, maybe like a thirty eight percent at least
three point shooter and more of a supplementary score. Because
the other part of this is they're about to get
really expensive and some of that depth that's been around
them is going to kind of melt away.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Right, Yeah, it will. But to kind of you mentioned
Jaylem Williams, what do you make of the fact he
just shared that he received about thirty injections during the
playoffs just to be able to get that that that
right wrist functional to play through the finals.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
To me, it's a I mean, it's impressive, right, and
then it didn't come out, and you know, he still
played well. He had a fourty point game in the finals. Like,
I don't think his shooting was to his standard the
whole playoffs, but he had a really good playoffs and generally,
and you know, knowing what he went through with the
ritch that that makes it more impressive to me. But
I also think it's more of another example of like
a lot of times we don't know what most of
(23:22):
these guys are going through physically. I'd say, you know,
eighty percent of the league by you know, middle of
the playoffs has sometime a bumper bruise that sounded like
a more extreme version of one, right, a torn wrist.
But you know, like the Warriors, for example, had two
like Moses Moody had to get risk surgery after the year,
Pajemski had to get you know, oblique surgery and you know,
(23:43):
something for his thumb, like you know, and that's that's
that's common across the league. It feels like two players
per team have to get some type of like postseason surgery.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
They announced Anthony Davis yesterday had to get like retina surgery.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yeah, detach Like who knew? Like, yeah, the only guy
that lets us know is Lebron, who came in with
that risk leave one time after losing in the finals. Right. Oh,
by the way, I'm hurt. I'm hurt the whole speaking
of Lebron. Okay, how does the league and all of
(24:16):
your sources feel about Rich Paul's statement, Hey, Lebron wants
to win championships, when you just picked up your own
option to remain with l A and you essentially said
we can't win a championship in LA, no matter how
(24:37):
they might backtrack in the future. How does the league
felt about what Rich Paul said?
Speaker 5 (24:43):
It definitely like perked some ears up, you know, because
that's typically, you know, kind of the more subtle passive
aggressive statements is often what has been hinted by you know,
Rich and Lebron over the years. You but there's it's
it's really I mean, you're seeing it now. It's really
(25:03):
difficult to like move big contracts in the current NBA
and find you know, teams that can you know, absorb
that type of deal under all these like weird new
Apron rules and all that. So I think it makes
you And it's definitely when you talk to us in
the league, there's there's more of questioning of if he
will finish his career with the Lakers. But unless he
(25:25):
really kind of tries to agitate his way out of
town to a suitor that I'm not sure you know,
we can come up with it with one right now
that like can kind of fit him in and has
the motivation. Then I think he's just coming down on
the Lakers next year and they're gonna be pretty good.
I mean, I would probably agree that I wouldn't consider them,
you know, an Inner Circle top five type title contender,
but they were the three seed last year. You know,
(25:46):
maybe the eight fit works. Maybe Luca's in shape, Like
I could see them being somewhat of a you know,
fringe threat next year. So he's probably gonna have to
kind of at least somewhat happily. He tried to play
that out.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
One would think, but it's it's just odd, right, like
if you wanted to to me. One part it says
is he doesn't think they don't think he's a top
fifteen player anymore. Because if you if we all think
that Luca is and then people think Lebron is, well
that's you're starting from a pretty good spot. You know.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Yeah, it's like, you know, maybe edging towards All Star.
I don't know what you think about the hayten fit,
but it's it's at least more theoretical capabilities at the
center spot.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Here here's what I think of the eight and fit. Okay,
this would be the just kind of the basketball element
to it. I don't know personality wise what works and
what doesn't work. I don't profess to know the reason
that Lakers can't win is because if those are your
three best players, they're all minuses at the defensive end. Right.
Lebron at this age doesn't move anymore. Reeves has never
(26:50):
been a particularly a defender, though he does fight, and
Luca is a non defender. And maybe he gets in
shape and fights a little bit more, you know, and
in the NBA you can maybe one guy, but outside
of that can't hide two. And then you know he
wanted rim protection like Deandreten is not a rim protector.
He's also not a lob threat, right, He's a roller
to score, to catch and finish, you know. So does
(27:14):
it fit with Luca because he's a pick and roll option,
I guess. But a guy who's never played well in
the playoffs isn't a rim protector, and once the ball
on rolls is an offensive minded score Like Again, I
understand that you're asking something of Polinka, Like it's not
like he had a blank slake and could pick anybody.
(27:34):
I just don't know how all that group works together
to be anything special in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, I mean lucas you know, has worked best in
the past with like the Derek livelys of the world
of Daniel Gaffers, and I would agree. I mean, Aighton's
free throw rate is like ridiculously low for a guy
you know.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
At his size.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
I will say, like he was a starting center and
a productive center on a finals team like not that
long ago. Yeah, I mean, obviously that was kind of
Chris Paul operating in the pick and roll where he
doesn't necessarily as much need the lab threat. But you know,
he liked it. And I bet if you know, you
go look at the numbers like ate and finish a
lot more lobs than the Phoenix than he did in Portland. Now,
(28:14):
you know, to your point, I think you generally throw
it to him and he wants to, like, you know,
get the eight footer and do the touch stuff. And
he's not super physical. But as you mentioned, they didn't
have you know, they thirty nine year old Al Horford
wouldn't have been a lob threat, you know, some of
the other options out there on the free agent market.
So I think part of what's going on right now
is the Lakers are taking a somewhat patient approach. They're
(28:35):
not you know, using all their assets for a Mark Williams.
It seems like they've pulled back from that a little bit.
And that's what I think, you know, going back to
your original question, I think that's what you're feeling with
the Lebron statement, that he's feeling a level of organizational
philosophical shift to a patient, longer term Luka Doncic related approach,
(28:55):
because Luca's twenty six and he's sitting there going like,
I don't really have a long term approach. He's using
whatever tool he believes he has to maybe try to,
you know, leverage a little pressure of like, hey, you know,
let's try to win next season, because next season might
be the final season for him to win.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, I don't. I agree with you. I don't think
next he'll it's not gonna be his final season unless
he gets a farewell tour.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Maybe in LA.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Again, I agree with you, maybe in La, but I don't.
I don't think he's gonna do the final season thing
without a farewell tour. I just I just.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Don't announce preseason Kobe style. Yeah, celebrated in every arena yes,
you're right, You're probably right.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And and look, I understand to people who don't like Lebron,
they be like, dude, yay, and he's a little bit much,
but he's also the all time leading scorer in NBA history,
who's won four titles and four MVPs and is in
any discussion of.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Mount Rushmore, right, Right, So it's.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Like, yeah, I mean, if there's ever a guy who
kind of deserves it, like yeah, that's that's not that all.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Step one of the people that might kind of scoff
a little bit of Lebron would love Kobe, right, And
you remember it, like what was that a twenty win
Laker team that he was just going around to every arena.
They would do a pregame celebration. They would present him
with presents and do tribute videos for him, and then
the home team would beat the Lakers by twenty five points.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yes, yes, yes, and and and Kobe and and and
the other part was like, look, I know Kobe God rest,
his soul is is now he's been thrust up to
the Mount Rushmore. But there's a lot of things in
his career he wasn't beloved for. There was there was
a lot of nonsense early in his career, and by
the end, you know, Kobe was a different guy, and
(30:39):
he evolved into somebody who was worthy of all of that,
all of all of the praise, not just for the play,
but also he become kind of this philosopher and been
really thoughtful and showing his true love for the sport.
But like, let's not let's not kid ourselves, Like there
was a lot there with Kobe with I want to
be traded, the break up with Shaq and all that
other stuff. So it was like he's he knows sat right.
(31:03):
So it's just interesting on how we look back with
colored glasses because of Kobe's passing, but also because Lebron
is so different from Kobe and playing essentially for Kobe's franchise.
Really if that's probably what's hurting him the most has
been the franchise hopping. Speaking of franchise hopping, what about Giannis?
Does he want to stay in Milwaukee or does he
(31:23):
want to play somewhere else?
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Seems like at this temporary moment he has been, you know,
a message to the Bucks and certainly to the league
that his feet are where they are Milwaukee. I'm not
sure there's any type of guarantee how long that's gonna be.
But if you're the Bucks and you make the type
of very win now move and mortgage the future type
move that was the Damian Lillard wave and stretch to
(31:48):
fit Miles Turner in like that, you're doing that under
the understanding it would seem that Giannis is at least
in on the start of next season and you're trying
to maximize next season because if suddenly, you know, Jannis
in August September ask out prior to this season, like
what a disaster move that you know, Lillard thing would
look like because you got twenty two million on the
(32:10):
books for the next five years dead caps, So you know,
for now it seems be honest, will be in Milwaukee,
you know, But that does seem like it's a you know,
temporary thing that that could become more permanent depending on
how they look and how they play and how their
future looks.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Tomorrow night in Vegas, Cooper Flag and the Dallas Mavericks
take on Brownie James. Brownie struggled last night. But very
few people pay attention to the Cali games. You've been
around this thing for a while, right, you have the
Zion hype, the Wembley hype. Right, there's there's Wemby was
was pretty big. Where does this one rank in terms
of the Vegas Thomas and Mack Summer League for Opening
(32:50):
night hype?
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Well, I heard it's like the most expensive ticket ever.
There was a twenty five hundred court side or something
like that. It's it's not even just like obviously you know,
Flag is a big name and Broni is, but just
the event itself has just exploded there. You know, you'll
go to you know, Day three, you know, Pelicans Knicks
with maybe one lottery pick on the floor and it's
(33:13):
like pretty pretty packed. So it's just I think it's
just become such an impressive event for the league in general.
And typically you do on that that first second night
get you know, the first overall pick, oftentimes going against
the second overall pick. I think just because of the
the Lakers territory, which is you know, Vegas in a
sense in Bronnie's name, they matched up Cooper, Flag and Bronni,
(33:34):
so it'll be it'll be cool. But at the same time,
like I remember Wemby walking into the arena and the
buzz of it. I remember the Zion game for the
earthquake and in Vegas and then the that was the
night Paul George and Kawhi Leonard like that bomb got
dropped on the league and that they were going to
the Clippers together. But I actually don't really remember much
from Zion's game or Wemby's actual game.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Uh. Andrew enjoyed the game. Let's talk again soon. Can't read,
can't wait to read your work on Summer League and
all all this other stuff going on. Andrews later pick
up his stuff, read his stuff in the Athletic. He's outstanding.
Thanks for joining us in the Herd. Anthony said, I'm sorry, Anthony,
I'm I'm here. I'm one armed paper hanging it. Thanks
so much, Anthony, yep.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
It's Doug Gottliebin for Colin. It's the Herd on Fox
Sports Radio. Okay, coming up, coming up next, we'll get
to Herd line news. Wait to hear what happened to
the Dodgers last night. That's next. This is the Herd.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Doug Gottlieb it for Colin. It's the Herd Fox Sports Radio,
iHeart Radio app. Welcome in. Uh her Cousins is selling something?
Tell you what I'm not buying. That's at the top
of the hour. Before we get to that, though, let's
get to Ryan Music with the news.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, no, no, this is the Heard Line News.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Hello, Ryan, Hello Doug.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
Let's get things started with a little Major League Baseball man.
Dodgers are going through it right now. Down Bad lost
their fifth game in a row, falling to the Brewers
three to one. Injuries mounting for the boys in Blue
on both sides, and they've been outscored forty one to
(35:28):
eight during this current losing streak. On the other side, however,
for the Brewers, their young star pitcher Jacob Mizerowski gave
up a leadoff homer to sho Heo Tawny, but was
lights out after that, racking up twelve strikeouts and six innings.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yeah, ninety one pitches, sixty eight strikes. And if you
know anything about Missowski's what's impressive is it's the we'll
talk about old quotes. It's not how many ten Nace Nelson, Mandela.
Don't judge me by how many times they get knocked down,
About how many times they get up, he hadn't given
up a run, and then they should have gotten out
(36:05):
of an inning with the Mets. In his last outing,
gives up a grand Slam, then a back to back
chack five runs and then starts this game and you're
with the Dodgers. He gets to count, hangs a curveball
and showhy deposits it like four hundred and thirty feet.
So you know, like, look, lots of young guys, they
just they they lose their confidence, lose their mind. He
(36:25):
did not, and he was special. As for the Dodgers,
I do think that, look, the injuries are mounting, they're starting,
they're gonna get healthy and their pitching staff and this
is you know, this is playoffs versus regular season, right
because the regular season got plenty of time to right
the ship. And it's one hundred and sixty two games.
But make no mistake about it, like right now the
Dodgers are not playing good ball after getting swept by
(36:48):
the by the Astros. Uh now they're in danger of
our day game getting swept by the Brewers. You know,
but again, like it's all your your snap shot. I know,
White Sox, stink, Royals and Rockies aren't great, but they
were like nine to one the last ten heading into
and they were it won like thirteen out of sixteen
(37:09):
before they hit the skids with the Astros. Granted, these
are two playoff teams, and two teams are gonna have
to go through to win a World Series, but I
think it's more that's baseball. Ultimately, they'll be find.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Yeah, I mean, look to your point when you try
to take these things into a bigger picture, larger context
of the entire baseball season. They're on a five game
losing streak and they remain five games up in the division,
so everything's gonna be okay.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
And la la Joeywatani has more home runs before the
break than any Dodger hitter. Ever.
Speaker 6 (37:44):
Yeah, ever crazy as you and I painfully know the
greatness of Otani for our beloved Angels and to see
him go up the road, were not surprised at the
level of success that he's had. But you know it hurts.
It hurts, Yes, all right, let's turn our attention to
(38:05):
the National Football League. Is the price for Micah Parsons
going up for the Cowboys? Well, you'd be the judge.
As ESPN has released its rankings for top edge rushers
in the league, according to league executives, coaches, and scouts.
Here's how the top five rankings came in. Number one
Miles Garrett, number two TJ. Watt, number three, Micah Parsons,
(38:28):
number four Max Crosby, and fifth was Nick Bosa. Obviously,
Micah Parsons awaiting his massive contract extension that he expects
to receive from the Dallas Cowboys, but no news just
yet on that front. Just that league execs, coaches, and
scouts see Micah as the third best edge rusher in
(38:48):
the league.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
And look, I understand that that everybody operates under this line. Well,
Jerry's gonna sign him too late or whatever, like believe
it or not, Jerry Jones. Actually they're fine because the
layman sits there and goes like, hey, this is year five,
five year deal. He's a free agent. No he's not.
You franchise tag him. He'll say, I don't want to
(39:11):
be franchise tagger. I'm not gonna play, and then ultimately
you work out a deal or he plays under the
franchise tag. So I think MARKT. Parsons is terrific. Obviously,
last year's defense when you moved to Zimmer wasn't nearly
as good. I do think that he's one of those
guys that, like, I don't know if the podcast is
a great idea because sometimes in voice's opinions about things
(39:33):
that it doesn't need out there. Again here here I
am a head college coach having my own radio show,
a podcasts as well. I'm not trying to be hypocritical,
but I.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Call attention.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Do you at least have awareness to know like, oh, yeah,
we're not going there today, we're not talking about that.
That's that's not we're not not doing that, but this
is it's not you know, let's he's gonna be a cowboy. Sure,
there's gonna be a cowboy. Okay. So what we need
to do to be smarter sports fans is don't act
(40:06):
like he's gonna go somewhere else because he wants to.
Right Because the way NFL contract work, they can franchise
him next year, franchise you're after that, they can franchise
you after that in the other franchise tag and play
m a gargantu and some money. So he's not a
free agent now it'll hurt them against the cab he's
gonna be a Cowboy. It's a matter of when, not if,
(40:27):
and I don't. I think we waste a lot of
mental energy thinking otherwise totally.
Speaker 6 (40:32):
I think when you zoom out though and look at
the Cowboys, the biggest issue that, whether it's Cowboy fans
or just outsiders who look at the organization as a whole,
is that you just paid Dak Prescott another record some
amount of money you paid CD Lamb, which again I think,
(40:52):
out of all of these players, CD may be the
highest end player or the most impactful overall. So I
don't necessarily think there's an issue with paying Micah because
he is also a very good player. But each of
these guys are going to be paid quote unquote top
of market, and you have no real postseason success to
(41:15):
show for it. So it's not that paying these guys
is bad in practice, it's just that you keep doubling
and tripling down on paying top of market money for
a collection core of players that hasn't actually produced a
lot in January or February, as opposed to perhaps trying
(41:35):
to take a more creative approach and trading one of
these guys early to see if you can get two
very good players in place of one great player that's
now going to take up a large portion of your
salary cap.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Well, this it does look last year the Dallas Cowboys.
If you have the football database and the overall defensive ratings, okay,
they had the fifth worst defense in the NFL. That's
just one ratings in terms of yards per game, you know,
points the game. There's some other stuff as well, okay,
and there's some advanced analytics. They were not very good
defensively last year. So there is a Remember when Mac
(42:09):
was traded from Chicago to the Raiders, right, it was
two first round draft picks. Forget that, but from the
Raiders to the Bears, my bad. Okay, And the point
is that could he be traded? Sure? Will he? I
don't think so? All right? Coming up next in the Herd,
that's Ry Music with the news Kirk Cousins is buying.
(42:31):
I'm not selling. I'm not buying. That's text
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What Up. Welcome in this ergs the Herd, wherever you
may be and however you may be making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I've done gottlieb in
for Colin Cowherd and for the next couple of hours,
I want to talk sports with you from Powway to
Escodnito to oh Time Mesa. Welcome in, Good to be
(00:53):
back on in La on AM five seventy the home Peeps,
and all throughout the country on the iHeart family of
networks as well as the iHeartRadio Welcome Bookman. So in
the I was today years old that I learned, right,
You learn lots of things. It's weird as you get older.
(01:14):
Right now, I coach college kids' head coach of Wisconsin
Green Bay and it again, I have a really good
group of young men that want to learn want to
get better at basketball. We try and teach them about
life a little bit. And you know, college is just
in a weird sort of phase where so many schools
(01:37):
because of COVID went online, and then you factor in chat,
GPT and everything else. How much are kids actually learning?
But the biggest difference between a kid in an adult
I think there's two or three things. Right, Like, you
know you're an adult when you never turn down a
(01:58):
n app. It never turned out a nap. I mean,
ask tuy and and even Ryan who doesn't have kids.
If you go like, hey, man, two o'clock, what if
I if I give you like an hour to shut
off your phone and take a nap, there isn't an
adult life that'll be like, yeh, down for that. A kid,
(02:19):
you say, hey, take a nap. You know, after you
get to like two years old, you're done with naps. Adults, well, adults,
they will order vegetables or order salads or actually ask
for them for dinner. Most kids like, what why you
have to make them eat vegetables, make them eat legomes,
(02:43):
make them eat eat fruits. Right, that's the difference in adults.
And the other thing about adults as opposed to kids
is I don't know if you're like this when you
do the whole You know, you help your kid with
their homework, But man, you get to a certain age
and you're like, man, I kind of like learning. Maybe
it was how we were taught, Maybe it was the teachers,
(03:04):
maybe it was our desire to do other things. But
I remember being in school and I just could not
wait for every day to be over, as opposed to now. Damn,
I love learning things. I just do. Sunday I learned
that a handball in soccer was not just simply the
(03:24):
ball touching a non goalkeeper's hand. I literally Monday, I
walked in and I was like, man, I didn't know
that the ball could graze your hand, and if it
was in the natural motion of whatever you were doing
as an athlete in soccer, it didn't mean it was
(03:45):
a handball. I don't know, did anybody know that. I mean,
I'm sure like soccer guys like, yeah, you're dope. Hey,
I played soccer growing up. I don't remember any of
that stuff. I just remember the tunnel, I remember Capri's son,
I remember scoring goals. I you know, I don't remember
any of that. So I love learning, and I'll tell
(04:09):
you something I learned today. Okay, there was a playwright
in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds, mostly seventeen hundreds. His
name was William Congreeve. You're like, why are you telling
me about a playwright, because he's the one who authored
up the phrase, hell hath no fury like a woman scorn,
(04:33):
hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn. Have you
ever heard that? If you haven't heard that, when I bet?
He also said you must not kiss and tell, so
kiss and tell, and hell hath no worries, hell hath
no wrath like a scorned woman. That's that we changed
the words, that changed the order of it, right we
(04:56):
hell hath no furry like a woman scorn. That was w.
Wiam Congreve, who is a famous playwright in the sixteen
and seventeen hundreds, born in sixteen seventy died in seventeen
twenty nine, And like, why are you starting out with that? Saying, well,
I'll tell you. I also learned that apparently there's not
(05:19):
a true standalone version of it, but a video game
within a video game for EA Sports. So EA Sports
has two k or is it EA sports has two K.
You're familiar with two K, okay, so apparently there's also
a WNBA version of two K, And I get it right,
(05:42):
Like what is two K? If you take away all
the dunks and the made layups and three points and
the high percentage of made three point shots, and you
have WNBA. But there is no denying the WNBA's sudden
rise in popularity. And for the those of us who
are honest with ourselves, it's because of Kaitlyn Clark. And
(06:06):
you know, we can get into the reasons why I
love the people that fall on the race aspect of it.
When then you point out, like, hey, Sabrina in Escu
and Kelsey Plumb were great women's college basketball players who
came to the league had have been great WNBA players,
and they have not received any amount of the acclaim
(06:27):
of a Caitlin Clark. There's a bunch of different factors,
mostly likely the logo threes, the hey we love Steph Curry.
And here's the closest version of it. Who happened to
play the same school for four years, happened to take
her to a team to two straight final fours, happened
looks like everybody else's little sister, right, all of those
(06:50):
things she kind of nails. But upon my quest to
learn something every day, I found that there's an NBA
two K version focusing on the WNBA. But here's the kicker.
The cover choice was Angel Rees was Angel Rees. And
(07:15):
it just continues this pattern of the WNBA doing everything
in their power to I don't know if it's diminished
Caitlin Clark or to promote everybody other than Kaitlin Clark,
but whatever it is, we try and search for reasons,
(07:37):
and I keep falling back on hell. Hath no wrath,
like a woman scorned William Cornelius in the late sixteen hundreds,
and like, wait a second, why are they scored? Caitlin
Clark said nothing negative towards any of these women. She
doesn't have to. The only logical conclusion as to why
(07:59):
so many of these women have done everything in their
power to marginalize, horise to fame and what it's done
for the entire sport of women's basketball is that you
have women that feel like they've been scorned by media,
by mainstream fans for their entire lives, and it it
(08:24):
comes out as anger and resentment towards Caitlin Clark. Does
that make sense. There's something called the Have you ever
heard the anger Iceberg? If you go through therapy, people
tell you it's you learn the anger Iceberg that people
are angry and they get snappy with one of the
other in like relationships, and it's not about that one thing.
(08:48):
It's about all this other thing, all the insecurities, all
the mistrust, all the times of other relationships that have
gone bad, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, And it
comes out as snappiness towards one another. And any relationship
you have, even in business, you pocket resentment towards somebody
(09:09):
else getting in promotion, somebody else getting shine, You not
feeling like you're heard in a meeting, you having a
bad interaction with somebody at a Christmas party or whatever.
For these women, okay, remember I see it as most
of us see it. I'm Doug Gottliebin for Collin. This
(09:30):
is the herd twenty five years of the WNBA. I'm
not as negative about their overall talent and skill as
others are. It's a different sport. Our expectations are different.
We don't have the one hundred years of history in
the NBA. We just don't if you take away the
NBA with the dunks and the proficiency from three point line,
(09:54):
you know. And the other part about NBA players is
they look like superheroes, whereas many of those women though
for women, crazy athletic, crazy talented, there just is no comparison.
When you watch one game together, it's like watching one
in slow motion and one that plays below the rim,
and below the rim causes more mislay ups, and it's
(10:17):
again just a different, much less athletic game. And for
twenty five years, we didn't pay attention to it in
sports media, and I've been a part of sports media
for twenty five years. We didn't pay attention to it
because nobody did the science to this is not that
(10:38):
hard to figure out, Gollen. This is me doing the
Colin thing. Gollen. You only want to talk about Tom
Brady and Pat Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers and Lebron James. Yeah,
because we're no different than top forty radio man play
the hits. Our job is to talk about what most
(10:59):
people care about, and we have twenty five years of
data that tells you most people don't care about the WNBA.
And the only reason we're talking about it now is
because Caitlin Clark has brought attention and people are in
fact talking about the WNBA now, So now we're going
to be attractive talking more about it. But when you're
(11:20):
raised as a women's basketball player, you're raised to believe
everybody's out to get you. Everybody's out to get you. Okay, Look,
I don't know if you recall, but if you go
back to the COVID year NCAA tournament, they had women
(11:44):
who were in San Antonio and they had a little
makeshift weight room and it was like, you know, two
dumbells and you know, and a balance ball. And then
they showed the men's weight room in Indianapolis and it
looked like it we're a weight room. And what happens is,
(12:06):
you know, the the NCAA like apologize for it. It
acts like this was this was discrediting all of women's basketball.
When reality is one, it comes down to the planning committee.
That's what they have to do. Two, the men's teams,
I believe all of them were there for like a month,
so they had to prep for it, and they had
the Big Ten tournament there, so they had all this
(12:29):
had all been kind of planned out, whereas for San Antonio,
it was just a one stop shop and they threw
it together. And anybody who's ever traveled knows that, like,
it doesn't matter the hotel chain. You can be a
Hyatt guy, right or a Bonvoy guy, and and some
hotels have a rinking, dank weight room and some hotels don't.
It doesn't have anything to do with anything other than
(12:50):
that particular hotel, that particular general manager and what they
think they want to focus their resources on. But the
point is that that case is no different than anything else.
Why do women have home sites during the NCAA tournament
instead of the regional sites that the men have. Well, again,
anyone who's realistic in business knows that the reason they
(13:12):
went back to home sites is that's their only ability
to draw people and to sell tickets. They've played in
the big arenas. It hasn't worked, by and large. Trust me,
if the NCAAFL like they can make more money doing it,
they would do it because it's the only way in
which they make money is the men's and women's NCAA
basketball tournaments. But again, how you and I view it
(13:36):
from a business perspective, which is very much in the
neutral kind of corner is, hey, they're doing it because
it makes the most sense financially. How women view it is, oh,
we're a secondary tournament. We have to play in home sites. Right,
So it doesn't matter necessarily what the reality of women's
(13:58):
basketball was over the last one five years, right, that
you started from nothing and built it into something that
was fairly sustainable. Again, those of us who lived it
in real time, as I have, like my media career,
has mirrored essentially the length of the WNBA. You went
from being completely subsidized by the NBA playing in these
gargantuan arenas to hey, let's dial this back, play in
(14:21):
smaller venues, be smarter, Okay, save more money, fly commercial
space out the games, et cetera, et cetera. But how
it's received is we've been treated like crap for years
and now you're trying to push this star who she
might be another Jeremy Lynn linsanity, and we're not buying it.
(14:46):
So when I saw that quote today, I just and
then I saw that the two K version of NBA
two K had Angel Rees Caitlyn Clark on the cover. Right,
Because again, whether or not you're buying or I'm buying
(15:07):
a WNBA two K game. Doesn't matter right, Everything would
be boosted up if you put Caitlin Clark on. It
probably cost you know, the gaming company more to put
her on the cover. But the WNBA forcing us to
take on Angel Reese as some sort of rival to
(15:30):
Caitlin Clark, forcing it, forcing it, forcing it makes it
feel icky, whereas it's super easy here. Just put Caitlin
Clark on everything. It'll sell more. It'll be the rising
tide that lifts all ships. But from the Olympic team
last year to the players only voting where they voted
her the ninth best guard, to put an Angel Reese
(15:55):
on NBA two K, to all the bitterness and push
back and the treatment of Caitlyn Clark where they're clearly
trying to punk her and bully her and her teammates,
and to making and look bad. All of that stuff
leads most of us to go, why would you do that?
Why wouldn't you embrace the fact that people are paying
(16:18):
attention to your sport, covering it like it's one of
the big three sports. Probably got more coverage in the
NHL Stanley Cup playoffs, and the only logical conclusion I
can come to is hell hath no wrath like as
a woman scored all the years of being made to
feel like you're a secondary or tertiary product, and probably
(16:42):
even tertiary's not as strong as they were. Leads women
to push back against anything seen as mainstream media and fans.
Oh now you like us, but only for her Well
put to you two. Now give me your thoughts Twitter,
Instagram at Gottlieb Show. In the meantime, okay, we do
(17:04):
have some NBA news chet Holmegrin, reups for the Max,
reups for the Max. What does that mean for the
Thunder and their ability to maintain the best record in
the regular season and a postseason championship. Let's discuss it next.
(17:26):
I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Hurd.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Hey, what's up everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Harrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game? What is up on Game?
You asked, along with my fellow pro Bowler, TJ. Huschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris,
you can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
(18:00):
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with me lebar Arrington, TJ. Houchman, Zada,
and Plexico Birds on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
From Doug otliebit Per Collinis, the Hurt Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio app. Welcome in. Uh so the big news in
the NBA today as we get ready for real NBA
(18:39):
Summer League, which is Las Vegas. Yes again, and I'm
it may sound disrespectful for the I forget where the
California Golden State games are. Is the one everyone hyper
focuses on is in Las Vegas. Uh And we'll we'll
get to that upcoming in the show because the Lakers
play yesterday. The Lakers are the signature nightcap in the
(19:04):
Summer League opening night against the Dallas Mavericks. And of
course the Dallas Mavericks have the number one overall pick
and the Lakers have Brownie James and it's a it's
it'll be something. But let's let's dig in with Anthony Slater,
of course covers the league for the Athletic. He joins
us now in the herd. Anthony, let me let me
(19:25):
ask you about Chet holmbern So announce today that Chet
Holmgren agrees to terms on a max contract, on a
max contract to remain in Oklahoma City. And he's really
only played like a season and a half. If you're
an Oklahoma City fan or you're hopeful of a dynasty
there does what does this do for you?
Speaker 5 (19:47):
I mean, I think it's just checked the box that
you knew was coming. And the other the one that's
coming soon is gonna be Jalen Williams, who has the
same agent, Bill Duffy, which I'm sure you know helps
and leveraging negotiations. But you know, Jalen Williams gonna get
his max, and his max if he's makes all NBA again,
would actually be even higher than chests. And you know
we're talking about rookie max is. I know sometimes we
(20:09):
just everybody just says max. They're different, you know, percentages
of the cap and this is you know, the fresher one.
But you know, you're you're getting the next six years
of Chet Holmers early prime into his prime. Sure he's
not your you know, prototype number two certainly as a score,
I think he's got higher upside there. But I mean
he's a rim protecting three point shooter at seven feet tall.
(20:31):
To me, like you know, that is a very valuable
piece for a team that wants to win with defense first.
And you saw it in the play you know, we can,
we can kind of at times. I certainly did you
know their first playoff run together when they lost in
the second round, and though they're the one seed, I
kind of wondered if Jayley Williams and Chet Hoolmer could
be a legitimate number two, number three on a title team.
(20:52):
Well that question kind of was answered a month ago.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think the question for for Chet
is twofold one. Can he stay healthy? Yeah, right, that's
the big thing case a healthy and then at some
point Kenny regained confidence in his shooting.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Yeah, fairly. I mean, yeah, it's a it's a it's
a good question. But I think even the version of
Chet you saw really impacts winning. You know, it's he's
going to protect the rim at a high level. There
was times even in those finals. You know, I can
remember in a couple of the losses, certainly you know,
his his shooting, you know, I think he went too
(21:26):
and nine in the game one loss and was really
hard on himself. And I remember late in one of
the games in Indiana, Miles Turner kind of you know,
wiped away a couple of his shots, and and those
flaws seem to you know, percolate a little bit. But
also I can remember.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Him, like, you know, walling off the rim.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
In important stretches of those finals. But yes, if he
like he has the next level to get to, that
I think I would agree with you that his health
will determine because he spent all last summer really kind
of like grinding and getting his offense, I think to
a higher level. I think I went to their opening
night game in Denver and he like outplayed you kids.
I think he had like twenty five fourteen and five blocks.
(22:03):
And then about two weeks later, I'm at a game
in Oklahoma City and Andrew Wiggins just plows through him
and he breaks his hip and then he's bedridden for
six weeks. He's out for you know, fifty games whatever,
he ended up missing last season. I think that really
stunted his offensive growth. But yeah, I would agree that
long term for him to like probably be worth that contract.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
When we're in the middle years.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And you know, you're talking fifty million or whatever it's
going to be, you'd want him, you know, eighteen nineteen
per game, maybe like a thirty eight percent at least
three point shooter and more of a supplementary score. Because
the other part of this is they're about to get
really expensive and some of that depth that's been around
them is going to kind of melt away.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Right, Yeah, it will. But to kind of you mentioned
Jaylem Williams, what do you make of the fact he
just shared that he received about thirty injections during the
playoffs just to be able to get that that that
right wrist functional to play through the finals.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
To me, it's a I mean, it's impressive, right, and
then it didn't come out, and you know, he still
played well. He had a fourty point game in the finals. Like,
I don't think his shooting was to his standard the
whole playoffs, but he had a really good playoffs and generally,
and you know, knowing what he went through with the
ritch that that makes it more impressive to me. But
I also think it's more of another example of like
a lot of times we don't know what most of
(23:22):
these guys are going through physically. I'd say, you know,
eighty percent of the league by you know, middle of
the playoffs has sometime a bumper bruise that sounded like
a more extreme version of one, right, a torn wrist.
But you know, like the Warriors, for example, had two
like Moses Moody had to get risk surgery after the year,
Pajemski had to get you know, oblique surgery and you know,
(23:43):
something for his thumb, like you know, and that's that's
that's common across the league. It feels like two players
per team have to get some type of like postseason surgery.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
They announced Anthony Davis yesterday had to get like retina surgery.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yeah, detach Like who knew? Like, yeah, the only guy
that lets us know is Lebron, who came in with
that risk leave one time after losing in the finals. Right. Oh,
by the way, I'm hurt. I'm hurt the whole speaking
of Lebron. Okay, how does the league and all of
(24:16):
your sources feel about Rich Paul's statement, Hey, Lebron wants
to win championships, when you just picked up your own
option to remain with l A and you essentially said
we can't win a championship in LA, no matter how
(24:37):
they might backtrack in the future. How does the league
felt about what Rich Paul said?
Speaker 5 (24:43):
It definitely like perked some ears up, you know, because
that's typically, you know, kind of the more subtle passive
aggressive statements is often what has been hinted by you know,
Rich and Lebron over the years. You but there's it's
it's really I mean, you're seeing it now. It's really
(25:03):
difficult to like move big contracts in the current NBA
and find you know, teams that can you know, absorb
that type of deal under all these like weird new
Apron rules and all that. So I think it makes
you And it's definitely when you talk to us in
the league, there's there's more of questioning of if he
will finish his career with the Lakers. But unless he
(25:25):
really kind of tries to agitate his way out of
town to a suitor that I'm not sure you know,
we can come up with it with one right now
that like can kind of fit him in and has
the motivation. Then I think he's just coming down on
the Lakers next year and they're gonna be pretty good.
I mean, I would probably agree that I wouldn't consider them,
you know, an Inner Circle top five type title contender,
but they were the three seed last year. You know,
(25:46):
maybe the eight fit works. Maybe Luca's in shape, Like
I could see them being somewhat of a you know,
fringe threat next year. So he's probably gonna have to
kind of at least somewhat happily. He tried to play
that out.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
One would think, but it's it's just odd, right, like
if you wanted to to me. One part it says
is he doesn't think they don't think he's a top
fifteen player anymore. Because if you if we all think
that Luca is and then people think Lebron is, well
that's you're starting from a pretty good spot. You know.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Yeah, it's like, you know, maybe edging towards All Star.
I don't know what you think about the hayten fit,
but it's it's at least more theoretical capabilities at the
center spot.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Here here's what I think of the eight and fit. Okay,
this would be the just kind of the basketball element
to it. I don't know personality wise what works and
what doesn't work. I don't profess to know the reason
that Lakers can't win is because if those are your
three best players, they're all minuses at the defensive end. Right.
Lebron at this age doesn't move anymore. Reeves has never
(26:50):
been a particularly a defender, though he does fight, and
Luca is a non defender. And maybe he gets in
shape and fights a little bit more, you know, and
in the NBA you can maybe one guy, but outside
of that can't hide two. And then you know he
wanted rim protection like Deandreten is not a rim protector.
He's also not a lob threat, right, He's a roller
to score, to catch and finish, you know. So does
(27:14):
it fit with Luca because he's a pick and roll option,
I guess. But a guy who's never played well in
the playoffs isn't a rim protector, and once the ball
on rolls is an offensive minded score Like Again, I
understand that you're asking something of Polinka, Like it's not
like he had a blank slake and could pick anybody.
(27:34):
I just don't know how all that group works together
to be anything special in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, I mean lucas you know, has worked best in
the past with like the Derek livelys of the world
of Daniel Gaffers, and I would agree. I mean, Aighton's
free throw rate is like ridiculously low for a guy
you know.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
At his size.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
I will say, like he was a starting center and
a productive center on a finals team like not that
long ago. Yeah, I mean, obviously that was kind of
Chris Paul operating in the pick and roll where he
doesn't necessarily as much need the lab threat. But you know,
he liked it. And I bet if you know, you
go look at the numbers like ate and finish a
lot more lobs than the Phoenix than he did in Portland. Now,
(28:14):
you know, to your point, I think you generally throw
it to him and he wants to, like, you know,
get the eight footer and do the touch stuff. And
he's not super physical. But as you mentioned, they didn't
have you know, they thirty nine year old Al Horford
wouldn't have been a lob threat, you know, some of
the other options out there on the free agent market.
So I think part of what's going on right now
is the Lakers are taking a somewhat patient approach. They're
(28:35):
not you know, using all their assets for a Mark Williams.
It seems like they've pulled back from that a little bit.
And that's what I think, you know, going back to
your original question, I think that's what you're feeling with
the Lebron statement, that he's feeling a level of organizational
philosophical shift to a patient, longer term Luka Doncic related approach,
(28:55):
because Luca's twenty six and he's sitting there going like,
I don't really have a long term approach. He's using
whatever tool he believes he has to maybe try to,
you know, leverage a little pressure of like, hey, you know,
let's try to win next season, because next season might
be the final season for him to win.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, I don't. I agree with you. I don't think
next he'll it's not gonna be his final season unless
he gets a farewell tour.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Maybe in LA.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Again, I agree with you, maybe in La, but I don't.
I don't think he's gonna do the final season thing
without a farewell tour. I just I just.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Don't announce preseason Kobe style. Yeah, celebrated in every arena yes,
you're right, You're probably right.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And and look, I understand to people who don't like Lebron,
they be like, dude, yay, and he's a little bit much,
but he's also the all time leading scorer in NBA history,
who's won four titles and four MVPs and is in
any discussion of.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Mount Rushmore, right, Right, So it's.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Like, yeah, I mean, if there's ever a guy who
kind of deserves it, like yeah, that's that's not that all.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Step one of the people that might kind of scoff
a little bit of Lebron would love Kobe, right, And
you remember it, like what was that a twenty win
Laker team that he was just going around to every arena.
They would do a pregame celebration. They would present him
with presents and do tribute videos for him, and then
the home team would beat the Lakers by twenty five points.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yes, yes, yes, and and and Kobe and and and
the other part was like, look, I know Kobe God rest,
his soul is is now he's been thrust up to
the Mount Rushmore. But there's a lot of things in
his career he wasn't beloved for. There was there was
a lot of nonsense early in his career, and by
the end, you know, Kobe was a different guy, and
(30:39):
he evolved into somebody who was worthy of all of that,
all of all of the praise, not just for the play,
but also he become kind of this philosopher and been
really thoughtful and showing his true love for the sport.
But like, let's not let's not kid ourselves, Like there
was a lot there with Kobe with I want to
be traded, the break up with Shaq and all that
other stuff. So it was like he's he knows sat right.
(31:03):
So it's just interesting on how we look back with
colored glasses because of Kobe's passing, but also because Lebron
is so different from Kobe and playing essentially for Kobe's franchise.
Really if that's probably what's hurting him the most has
been the franchise hopping. Speaking of franchise hopping, what about Giannis?
Does he want to stay in Milwaukee or does he
(31:23):
want to play somewhere else?
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Seems like at this temporary moment he has been, you know,
a message to the Bucks and certainly to the league
that his feet are where they are Milwaukee. I'm not
sure there's any type of guarantee how long that's gonna be.
But if you're the Bucks and you make the type
of very win now move and mortgage the future type
move that was the Damian Lillard wave and stretch to
(31:48):
fit Miles Turner in like that, you're doing that under
the understanding it would seem that Giannis is at least
in on the start of next season and you're trying
to maximize next season because if suddenly, you know, Jannis
in August September ask out prior to this season, like
what a disaster move that you know, Lillard thing would
look like because you got twenty two million on the
(32:10):
books for the next five years dead caps, So you know,
for now it seems be honest, will be in Milwaukee,
you know, But that does seem like it's a you know,
temporary thing that that could become more permanent depending on
how they look and how they play and how their
future looks.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Tomorrow night in Vegas, Cooper Flag and the Dallas Mavericks
take on Brownie James. Brownie struggled last night. But very
few people pay attention to the Cali games. You've been
around this thing for a while, right, you have the
Zion hype, the Wembley hype. Right, there's there's Wemby was
was pretty big. Where does this one rank in terms
of the Vegas Thomas and Mack Summer League for Opening
(32:50):
night hype?
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Well, I heard it's like the most expensive ticket ever.
There was a twenty five hundred court side or something
like that. It's it's not even just like obviously you know,
Flag is a big name and Broni is, but just
the event itself has just exploded there. You know, you'll
go to you know, Day three, you know, Pelicans Knicks
with maybe one lottery pick on the floor and it's
(33:13):
like pretty pretty packed. So it's just I think it's
just become such an impressive event for the league in general.
And typically you do on that that first second night
get you know, the first overall pick, oftentimes going against
the second overall pick. I think just because of the
the Lakers territory, which is you know, Vegas in a
sense in Bronnie's name, they matched up Cooper, Flag and Bronni,
(33:34):
so it'll be it'll be cool. But at the same time,
like I remember Wemby walking into the arena and the
buzz of it. I remember the Zion game for the
earthquake and in Vegas and then the that was the
night Paul George and Kawhi Leonard like that bomb got
dropped on the league and that they were going to
the Clippers together. But I actually don't really remember much
from Zion's game or Wemby's actual game.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Uh. Andrew enjoyed the game. Let's talk again soon. Can't read,
can't wait to read your work on Summer League and
all all this other stuff going on. Andrews later pick
up his stuff, read his stuff in the Athletic. He's outstanding.
Thanks for joining us in the Herd. Anthony said, I'm sorry, Anthony,
I'm I'm here. I'm one armed paper hanging it. Thanks
so much, Anthony, yep.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
It's Doug Gottliebin for Colin. It's the Herd on Fox
Sports Radio. Okay, coming up, coming up next, we'll get
to Herd line news. Wait to hear what happened to
the Dodgers last night. That's next. This is the Herd.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Doug Gottlieb it for Colin. It's the Herd Fox Sports Radio,
iHeart Radio app. Welcome in. Uh her Cousins is selling something?
Tell you what I'm not buying. That's at the top
of the hour. Before we get to that, though, let's
get to Ryan Music with the news.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, no, no, this is the Heard Line News.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Hello, Ryan, Hello Doug.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
Let's get things started with a little Major League Baseball man.
Dodgers are going through it right now. Down Bad lost
their fifth game in a row, falling to the Brewers
three to one. Injuries mounting for the boys in Blue
on both sides, and they've been outscored forty one to
(35:28):
eight during this current losing streak. On the other side, however,
for the Brewers, their young star pitcher Jacob Mizerowski gave
up a leadoff homer to sho Heo Tawny, but was
lights out after that, racking up twelve strikeouts and six innings.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yeah, ninety one pitches, sixty eight strikes. And if you
know anything about Missowski's what's impressive is it's the we'll
talk about old quotes. It's not how many ten Nace Nelson, Mandela.
Don't judge me by how many times they get knocked down,
About how many times they get up, he hadn't given
up a run, and then they should have gotten out
(36:05):
of an inning with the Mets. In his last outing,
gives up a grand Slam, then a back to back
chack five runs and then starts this game and you're
with the Dodgers. He gets to count, hangs a curveball
and showhy deposits it like four hundred and thirty feet.
So you know, like, look, lots of young guys, they
just they they lose their confidence, lose their mind. He
(36:25):
did not, and he was special. As for the Dodgers,
I do think that, look, the injuries are mounting, they're starting,
they're gonna get healthy and their pitching staff and this
is you know, this is playoffs versus regular season, right
because the regular season got plenty of time to right
the ship. And it's one hundred and sixty two games.
But make no mistake about it, like right now the
Dodgers are not playing good ball after getting swept by
(36:48):
the by the Astros. Uh now they're in danger of
our day game getting swept by the Brewers. You know,
but again, like it's all your your snap shot. I know,
White Sox, stink, Royals and Rockies aren't great, but they
were like nine to one the last ten heading into
and they were it won like thirteen out of sixteen
(37:09):
before they hit the skids with the Astros. Granted, these
are two playoff teams, and two teams are gonna have
to go through to win a World Series, but I
think it's more that's baseball. Ultimately, they'll be find.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Yeah, I mean, look to your point when you try
to take these things into a bigger picture, larger context
of the entire baseball season. They're on a five game
losing streak and they remain five games up in the division,
so everything's gonna be okay.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
And la la Joeywatani has more home runs before the
break than any Dodger hitter. Ever.
Speaker 6 (37:44):
Yeah, ever crazy as you and I painfully know the
greatness of Otani for our beloved Angels and to see
him go up the road, were not surprised at the
level of success that he's had. But you know it hurts.
It hurts, Yes, all right, let's turn our attention to
(38:05):
the National Football League. Is the price for Micah Parsons
going up for the Cowboys? Well, you'd be the judge.
As ESPN has released its rankings for top edge rushers
in the league, according to league executives, coaches, and scouts.
Here's how the top five rankings came in. Number one
Miles Garrett, number two TJ. Watt, number three, Micah Parsons,
(38:28):
number four Max Crosby, and fifth was Nick Bosa. Obviously,
Micah Parsons awaiting his massive contract extension that he expects
to receive from the Dallas Cowboys, but no news just
yet on that front. Just that league execs, coaches, and
scouts see Micah as the third best edge rusher in
(38:48):
the league.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
And look, I understand that that everybody operates under this line. Well,
Jerry's gonna sign him too late or whatever, like believe
it or not, Jerry Jones. Actually they're fine because the
layman sits there and goes like, hey, this is year five,
five year deal. He's a free agent. No he's not.
You franchise tag him. He'll say, I don't want to
(39:11):
be franchise tagger. I'm not gonna play, and then ultimately
you work out a deal or he plays under the
franchise tag. So I think MARKT. Parsons is terrific. Obviously,
last year's defense when you moved to Zimmer wasn't nearly
as good. I do think that he's one of those
guys that, like, I don't know if the podcast is
a great idea because sometimes in voice's opinions about things
(39:33):
that it doesn't need out there. Again here here I
am a head college coach having my own radio show,
a podcasts as well. I'm not trying to be hypocritical,
but I.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Call attention.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Do you at least have awareness to know like, oh, yeah,
we're not going there today, we're not talking about that.
That's that's not we're not not doing that, but this
is it's not you know, let's he's gonna be a cowboy. Sure,
there's gonna be a cowboy. Okay. So what we need
to do to be smarter sports fans is don't act
(40:06):
like he's gonna go somewhere else because he wants to.
Right Because the way NFL contract work, they can franchise
him next year, franchise you're after that, they can franchise
you after that in the other franchise tag and play
m a gargantu and some money. So he's not a
free agent now it'll hurt them against the cab he's
gonna be a Cowboy. It's a matter of when, not if,
(40:27):
and I don't. I think we waste a lot of
mental energy thinking otherwise totally.
Speaker 6 (40:32):
I think when you zoom out though and look at
the Cowboys, the biggest issue that, whether it's Cowboy fans
or just outsiders who look at the organization as a whole,
is that you just paid Dak Prescott another record some
amount of money you paid CD Lamb, which again I think,
(40:52):
out of all of these players, CD may be the
highest end player or the most impactful overall. So I
don't necessarily think there's an issue with paying Micah because
he is also a very good player. But each of
these guys are going to be paid quote unquote top
of market, and you have no real postseason success to
(41:15):
show for it. So it's not that paying these guys
is bad in practice, it's just that you keep doubling
and tripling down on paying top of market money for
a collection core of players that hasn't actually produced a
lot in January or February, as opposed to perhaps trying
(41:35):
to take a more creative approach and trading one of
these guys early to see if you can get two
very good players in place of one great player that's
now going to take up a large portion of your
salary cap.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Well, this it does look last year the Dallas Cowboys.
If you have the football database and the overall defensive ratings, okay,
they had the fifth worst defense in the NFL. That's
just one ratings in terms of yards per game, you know,
points the game. There's some other stuff as well, okay,
and there's some advanced analytics. They were not very good
defensively last year. So there is a Remember when Mac
(42:09):
was traded from Chicago to the Raiders, right, it was
two first round draft picks. Forget that, but from the
Raiders to the Bears, my bad. Okay, And the point
is that could he be traded? Sure? Will he? I
don't think so? All right? Coming up next in the Herd,
that's Ry Music with the news Kirk Cousins is buying.
(42:31):
I'm not selling. I'm not buying. That's text
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Colin Cowherd
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