June 18, 2025 • 40 mins
Colin reacts to a wild night in the WNBA where Caitlin Clark was on the receiving end of hard fouls in the Fever’s win over the Sun
LeBron James' recent comments on his podcast have people thinking he's being a hypocrite to protect his legacy
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh, here we go, it is O Wednesday. It's a
Caitlin Clark Wednesday. How grateful are we? How lucky are
we in June? You know, this industry is football season
and waiting for football. That Caitlin Clark has become a
leading source of content. All we could talk about Aaron Rodgers.
(00:50):
I am for Caitlin Clark. Jmac texted me last night,
the gift that keeps on giving. I do think the media,
the media is prone to do this. You know, the
media tends to be very reactionary, and the fans generally
get it more than the media. So I want to
start with this, j Mac. The WNBA has arrived. Caitlin
(01:11):
Clark's gotten really good, really fast. It's like the end
of year one for Michael Jordan or year three for
Michael Jordan. She's gotten really good, really fast, and you
got to put a body on her, or you got
a double teamer, or she's gonna embarrass you. She's shooting
thirty three footers and what happened last night's a byproduct
of that. This is what happened to MJ. She's number
(01:32):
one and two in every offensive stat. She's hitting more
threes this season than Steph Curry did in his first
MVP season, and her game embarrasses you. So like men's basketball,
J C. Sheldon had the task of stopping stopping the
latest superstar in her basketball league. And this thing was chatty.
In the second quarter, it was chatty. They've got history.
(01:54):
It was trash talking. And then in the third quarter,
Sheldon poked her in the eye. Again, this is something
we see all the time. They were on each other,
they were talking. It was trashy, the superstar like MJ
unstoppable poker in the eye and that's a flagrant fowl
and it should have been a flagrant foul. And then
(02:15):
Marina Maybray this is inappropriate, came over, knocked her over.
Minnie dug she should have been thrown out of the game. Well,
she got it. She didn't get a technical it's a
little bad Boys Pistons with MJ. For the record, Caitlin
Clark got up, she wasn't hurt. She did more trash talking,
she hit more threes. She remained remarkable, just like all
(02:38):
the great You know, if you respect women, stop pandering.
She's tough, she's feisty, she likes to taunt and talk,
and nobody quite knows what the hell to do. I
mean when Candace Parker ten years ago, Candace Parker led
this sport WNBA and assists with six a game. Caitlin
Clark's not only the best guard, the best shoe hitting
(03:00):
thirty three footers. They're flashy and kind of embarrass you.
She's averaging nine assists the game. She's changed the entire
tempo of the sport. Forget the merchandise, that's another segment.
So they don't know what to do. Hack a shack
Mike Dunlavy coach and the Blazers, we can't stop him.
And we have our Vitas Sabonis Steph Curry's first couple
of years in the league. Thank God for Draymond Green.
(03:23):
And by the way, this league, they knew what they
were getting into right like, and I'll get to this
in a second. But they brought Sophie Cunningham over in
a trade for a reason. She's the youngest black belt
in the state of Missouri's history, six years old. They
brought her over to protect Caitlin Clark because they saw
this puppy coming. The league doesn't quite know what to do,
(03:45):
but the fever did. And so again, you got to
put a body on You got to get physical. If
you go look at the history of basketball, high school, college, WNBA, NBA.
If there's an offensive player and there's humiliating you steph shack, MJ. Caitlin,
what do you do. You can't trap her, She'll dribble
(04:05):
through it. You gotta put a body on her. You
got a double teamer. You try to get in her
head with trash talking. It's not working at all. It's
the ultimate compliment in my opinion. But take a deep breath.
Caitlin bounced up the eye. Couldn't have been gouge that
violently because she could see just fine draining jumpers after.
(04:28):
Do I think it crossed a line? Yeah, that's why
we had a flagrant foul and a technicol And do
I think the officials are trying to figure out how
quite the officiator. Yes, I was at the Blazers Lakers
series in Los Angeles. I know where I was sitting
behind the basket when Kobe hit Shack for the slam dunk,
and I looked over at Bob Whitsitt at the time,
(04:50):
the GM of the Blazers, and thought we had our
venus of bonus with the Blazers. We couldn't stop him.
They didn't know how to officiate him. This is what
happens when the superstar emerges and here is the coach
of the fever after.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
This is what happens, right, This is what happens. You've
got competitive women who are the best in the world
at what they do, right, and when you allow them
to play physical and you allow these things to happen,
they're gonna compete and they're gonna have their teammates backs.
It's exactly what you expect right out of out of
fierce competition. So I started talking to the officials in
the first quarter, and we knew this was gonna happen.
(05:28):
They got to get control of it. They got to
be better. They got to be better.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Can you specifically detail what you mean might get control
of the game, just to be, in your words, get.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Control of the game.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Is called the fouls that are actually.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Happening on the floor. Okay, so and again let's go
to the next level on this, so everybody's going to
be okay. There was a technical, there was a flagrant,
and the officials of the WA are kind of figuring out,
how do we how do we officiate this thing? Okay,
they've never out of Caitlin Clark. How do we officiate
this thing? How do we officiate Shack? How do we
(05:58):
officiate Curry when they're coming after him? How do we
efficient bad boys tackling? What's legal? Finally the NBA stepped
and said no hand checking, No, you know, forearm in
the back like this stuff is a work in progress.
And so the first year Caitlin Clark was in the WNBA,
they were Hazinger. They're not Hazinger anymore. They're just trying
to figure out how the whodle stopper. It's not hazing,
(06:21):
it's all right. Traps pressure. So the Fever saw it coming.
They went and got Sophie Cunningham, six year old black belt.
This is what the Bulls did with Charles Oakley to
protect Michael Jordan, and I said this last year several times.
The WNBA is not a vertical league. Their players can't
jump over each other to score like the NBA. It's
a horizontal, chippy league. And you didn't watch the NBA
(06:43):
for the last ten to twelve years. It is always
been physical and ohways been chippy. You get into a
lot of collisions because they don't There's no Jah Morant here,
there's no Aunt Edwards. They don't jump over. It's a
horizontal physical league. And in Caitlin Clark now is like
Kerosene to the physicality flame. So you have physicality in
this league. And now you get this slashy player and
(07:05):
they don't know how to officiate her, they don't know
how to defend her. But I would say when I
hear this, Colin, Colin, Colin, the NB the w NBA,
Colin has got to do something. Yes, they do understand.
This is the arc of a new superstar in your league.
It'll start with hazing, it'll go to physicality, it'll go
(07:26):
to flagrants, it may go to technicals. You'll eventually have
to get a Sophie Cunningham, er a Charles Oakley. I
mean Wayne Gretzky did this for years. They figured it
out in hockey. How do you stop Gretzky? Oh, we can't.
How do you stop MJ We can't. How do you
stop Caitlin Clark? You guys understand this is the worst
(07:47):
she'll ever be. She's getting better and they can't stop her.
And so, but I also want you to watch this
because I've always said this, the media may overreact to stuff.
The fans in American public usually doesn't watch the retaliation
later by Sophie Cunningham. And again, this is inappropriate right now,
It's what happens in basketball. But I want you to
(08:08):
watch as this scrum's going on. Watch the fans behind
Sophie Cunningham. Watch them. They're smiling, they're engaged, they're happy,
they're not horrified. The Indiana fans understand what they're seeing.
It's part of the process. They went those people in Indiana,
(08:31):
they've gone to the Nick games and Spike Lee and
Reggie Miller. They watched the heat. Look at the look
at the fans. They're grabbing their phones, they're taking pictures.
I'm thinking the whole night, did Nick Kahn take over
the WNBA? We got a little WWE going on here,
and the fans get it. The media, in my opinion,
(08:52):
the media does a disk service sports media, political media
by overreacting to everything. And the Indian fans are like,
this is fun, this is real. The WNBA, now you
go to those games. There are nights the Fever out
drew the Pacers. Facers are in the finals. So the
(09:14):
fans here are not freaking out, They're booing. Honest to god,
it feels like a little you know, sports isn't terrible
if it's got a little WWE in basketball, like international
soccer has always been personality in star driven and when
new stars emerge. I can remember Christian Poolisic his first
(09:36):
World Cup and some of the quote friendlies, they were
tackling him and an American can do that. He'd played
in Mexico, maybe Canada. What do you do when a
star emerges. You can't stop them. Their game is flashy.
It goes from hazing to physicality to flagrance to ejections.
(10:00):
It's part of it. The only good thing about getting old,
and I'm not that old, but I'm kind of old
is you've seen all this stuff before. I've seen this
like eight times. I saw it in Honckey with Gretzky.
So listen, if you watch Gordon Ramsay the greatest chef
in the world right or one of them, it gets
toxic in that kitchen, John Taffer and Bar Rescue, it
(10:23):
gets toxic change. People don't like change, but intensity and
heat creates steel. This will only make Caitlin Clark a
better player. It will only make the fever more championship ready,
and the Indiana fans, good for you. You're gonna have
the great watch of the next fifteen years because they're
never trading her. She's the Steph Curry. They're never trading her.
(10:46):
She starts here, college here or near here. And by
the way, that whole scrum and that retaliation and the
delays in the game that everybody's freaking out over, Caitlin
Clark's like, can we got back to playing?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Honestly, the review took too long for me. I wanted
to get playing basketball again. And that's exactly what I did.
At the rest of the third quarter, I made all
three free throws and then I you know, it was
a tough three. I was excited about a three, and
you know, honestly got to give our crowd a lot
of credit too. I thought they were tremendous. You know,
they're cheering for us, they had our back. And I'm
a passionate player. But at the end of the day,
(11:23):
like I'm here to play basketball and that's what it is,
and my game's going to talk and that's all all
that really matters. And I love this game and I'm
going to give it everything I have. So I think
that's what competitors do. You just step right back up
to the challenge.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
That's what competitors do. That's what they do. Let's not pander,
let's not protect. Let's understand the WNBA. I had been
to a couple WNBA games. The league wasn't nearly as
good or watchable. Fifteen years ago, people could lead the
(11:57):
league and assists with five or six. Now you've got
multiple players at nine to ten. People are shooting thirty
three footers. Watch a WNBA game, If go watch the
highlights on YouTube of this game, look at the passing,
look at the physicality, look at the shooting. This league
is growing in front of our eyes. Now. Caitlin Clark
(12:17):
is obviously the jet fuel. Half the audience goes when
she's not there, But that's Okay, it took Connor McGregor
to the UFC and John Jones. It sometimes in emerging
leagues it takes a superstar and now and now you know,
America is all into UFC, but it does take sometimes
these special athletes and it can be getting really, really bumpy.
(12:43):
But if you really respect all these amazing women's athletes,
then take a deep breath. Nobody got hurt Jmac. That
was so fun. By the way, if you do go
to the YouTube WNBA highlights, they edit out the fighting part.
Oh well, of course they do, so you have to
(13:04):
go get that separately. But the point is you're old
enough to know. I mean, those Knicks teams with pat Riley,
those were tackling exercises for years. There's videos of Kurt
Rambus being slammed to the floor.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
This stuff was and I think fans know this. You
know when that when when Sophie Cunningham comes down and
tackles the girl, it's like, hey, I'm protecting my star.
And my take was, this is the process we want
to make. We're gonna let you know at the end
of the game, you're not getting out of this arena
without us retaliating that is a message to every other
(13:37):
WNBA team. You're going for a driving layup. You treat
our player like that. This is how we're gonna treat yours.
That may get a technical, but that was a message
and that's okay.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
So the Lakers Kurt Rambus stuff. In the eighties, the
teams didn't like each other. They were rivals, right.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
This Colin is different.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
This is many players around the league not liking Caitlin
Clark or they're jealous of her. Sixth say, you know,
I know people tried to make this a racial thing. Well,
what happened last night was not racial. That's just hate
and just they just don't like Kaitlyn Clark. They don't
like the attention she's getting. I mean, the ipoke was
so blatant, and the announcer as soon as Kaitlin Clark
got knocked over, was like, oh, she's gonna get ejected.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
They didn't eject the girl.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Can you believe that?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I say this, I wouldn't have been bothered if she
was ejected. I'm not bothered that she wasn't. It's obviously
a cheap shot. Yeah, it's a cheap shot. Caitlin Clark,
by the way, got right back up. Still, yeah, I
just I think in the reality of this is yes,
obviously that's a cheap shot.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
But what do you think the league wants Colin Kayln
Clark splashing thirty foot three pointers or three scrums in
the in the sun Fever game.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
They didn't want this. This doesn't lie. I think. I
think everybody's figuring out this jigsaw puzzle and it's it
just takes a while. When Michael Jordan came in, I mean,
you're you're watching this stuff, and David's turn saying, oh
my god, this guy's making our league global. He's selling
more shoes than any player in the history of the world.
(15:08):
And David Stern's like, we have to protect him. But
yet the Pistons tackled him for years and David Stern,
the late David Sterns step back, let it play out,
didn't protect Michael knew. Eventually they changed some officiating. Michael,
by the way, in year two got hurt, broke his foot,
so we had year one in year three. So again,
(15:31):
we all wantia. The sports can be very similar to politics.
We all want answers today, and everything's a process. We
prepare for our show. It's a process. You. Ninety percent
of sports is practiced, not games, right, We only see
the games. You didn't see Michael Jordan punch Steve Kerr.
We did see Draymond punch pool because we have phones now.
(15:53):
But there's a lot of stuff that happens among teams.
Teams fight amongst themselves in camp. We don't see most
of that. So we're so shocked when we see that bump.
I got news for you. You can find scrums in
the WNBA ten years ago. They don't jump over each other.
That's not what this leg is. They bang into each other.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
By the way, everybody's going to see this. Kayla Clark's
Oh when's the next game? Guess where their game is
televised on Thursday? Amazon Prime, almost the Patrick Mahomes, Chiefs,
Travis Kelce, Taylor Swift Effect, Taylor Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
On Amazon Prime on Thursday. So exciting, We've got more,
plus Lebron being a bit of a hipocrite. It's the hurt.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
All right, welcome back, Mark Sanchez, by the way top
of the hour. So you may think I'm embellishing when
I say there's a lot of similarities between Michael Jordan
and Caitlin Clark, But think about this. So both were
very popular in college. Caitlyn got to national championship, didn't
win it, but was sensational. Michael won a title his
(17:09):
last two years in college. He didn't but was sensational.
Both had flashy games that were different. Before Michael got
to the Bulls, they were awful twenty seven to fifty five.
First year in. He improved him by eleven games. They
made the playoffs. They still weren't great, but he got
him into the playoffs. Pre Kaitlyn Clark fever awful after
her first year, got him into the playoffs. Still weren't
a great team. By the end of year one, though
(17:31):
for Michael, we were thinking, is this guy a top
three player in the league? By the end of last
year outside of Asia Wilson, We're thinking, is Kaitlyn a
top three player in the league by year three? Michael
got hurt in year two. Year three, Michael MVP year two.
For Caitlin, hopefully she doesn't get hurt, will she be
an MVP she's our second right now. In odds, these
are very similar players. Both sold a ton of merchandise.
(17:55):
We fell in love with him and knew him. Michael's
at North Carolina went in a title taking the shot
facing Georgetown. Everybody didn't even go number one, but everybody's like,
who is this guy? Bobby Knight at the time said,
most talented guy I've ever seen in the basketball court ever.
Caitlyn Clark merch popularity, bad team gets him into the
(18:16):
playoffs and by the second full year of playing, are
they the best player in the league. They are the
MVP of the league. I mean she is the MVP.
She may not win the award, she's the MVP of
the league. And in both instances, both staffs, coaching staffs
and organizations understood that they had to protect their players.
The Bulls went out and got Charles Oakley, the intimidator,
(18:39):
the enforcer, to protect Michael because they started seeing how
people were defending him and fouling him. Caitlyn Clark, they
go and get the fever. Sophie Cunningham, as I said earlier,
six years old, had a black belt, youngest black belt
to this day ever granted in the State of Missouri.
(18:59):
She's an intimidator. You saw it last night, the Fever
like like the Bulls. The Bulls knew what they had.
They had to protect their asset. And in both instances,
the early Bulls coaches complained about how their star Michael
Jordan was being treated, and the coach of the Fever,
Stephanie White, saying the same thing is hey, guys, catch
(19:22):
up to the players. The game has changed so much.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Players are faster, they're better, they're bigger, they're stronger. You know,
they're as good as they've ever been. There, as athletic
as they've ever been. The game is fast now, things
are happening quickly. Everybody's getting better except the officials. So
we got to find a way to remedy it.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Listen, Stan Albrook, Doug Collins, Phil Jackson were constantly lamenting
how Michael was officiated. And again I'm not defending the
Connecticut Sun. I when you can't stop somebody, traps don't work,
doubles don't work. Connecticut's like, all right, let's get the
physicality route. And by the way, nobody ever stops Shack
(20:11):
really or Michael or Bird or Magic or Kobe or
Duncan or Caitlin Clark or Kandas Parker or Serena will
the greats just endure the greats get theirs. But you
got to figure out a way to slow down. I mean,
the Pacers tried with SGA worked a little bit, and
now it doesn't because he's gonna get his So, uh,
(20:33):
what a night? How much fun? J Mack with the news.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
You know, I don't have any data to back this up,
but you've had this show for what twenty years? The
Herd There's no way you've ever opened with twenty minutes
of straight wnba.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Ever, that just shows the Kaitlin Clark effect.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
Man, unbelieve.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I don't have a research to back that up, but
I'm gonna go with your right.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
All right, Let's go back to a tried and drew
fella on the show, and that's Aaron Rodgers, Colin. I mean,
hey went in doubt Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Let's talk about him.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
Interestingly, a new report emerged that Pittsburgh came to the
conclusion that George Pickens and Aaron Rodgers would not get
along well. Obviously, Pickens, very immature, had issues in college,
and that's why they traded him before Aaron Rodgers even
came on board. Now, I'm not saying this is the
(21:26):
level of the Jets playcating Rogers. Hey, what would you
like offensive coordinator, wide receiver? Whatever you want, we'll give
it to you. But this is starting to show, Hey, Aaron,
we're gonna do what it takes to get you on board.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I don't love it, but let's see.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
If they draw the line at trading Pickens.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
One of the ways I've always defended Aaron Rodgers is
Tom Brady had no interest with immature wide receivers. Don't
get me Welker, who's in the league. Edelman took years
to develop. Get me Randy Moss, and Randy Moss, by
the way, was no trouble first couple of years in
New England, and he was like like rain Man knowing
(22:01):
offense right. Belichick and Brady will talk about that. I'm
going to defend Aaron Rodgers. Older quarterbacks don't want to
babysit wide receivers. Dak Prescott came in. I defended it,
I think privately said listen, Dez is a headache. He's
screaming at me on the sidelines, and Dez was a
touchdown maker. But Dak, I'm not a babysitter, Brady, I'm
(22:25):
not a babysitter. Aaron Rodgers, I'm going to back him
one hundred percent here. He didn't have time to schedule
a bad time, as Jerry Jones would say, he didn't
have time for George Pickens to mature. Let's go get
DK Metcalf, who, by the way, little maintenance. But he's
an adult, he's been in the league. So I support
(22:47):
the Steelers here. I support Aaron Rodgers here. Aaron's gonna
play one more year. You don't want to spend nine
games having to cool this guy off after he didn't
throw it to him on a post route.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Colin, you just bought up an interesting point.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
So Aaron Rodgers I don't have time. Do you think
Aaron Rodgers in his head thinks, hey man, I could
win a Super Bowl or I could compete for a
Super Bowl with Pittsburgh this year.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Do you think he believes that in his head.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I'm never going to try to get into Aaron's head.
I think all athletes have supreme confidence and generally have
higher regards for their Super Bowl chances than reality. I
think everybody in September the Atlanta Falcons during camp, coaching
staff's going to be telling him you guys can win
it all.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Oh no, that's different. I'm talking about Rogers specifically. He
could have walked away from football.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Nobody would have believed. I think Aaron Aaron looks at
it and thinks, this is easily the best defense I've
ever had, easily dk metcalfs are, You'll be the most
talented receiver I've had. We got a high end tight end,
We've drafted the offense. I mean, Fraser's one of the
top three centers in the league now from West Virginia.
So I think Aaron looks at it and goes, hey,
(23:57):
this is going to be like the Jets without the chaos.
And at the end of the year, the Jets were
pretty interesting when they didn't have as much chaos. So
I think Aaron's talked himself into we can be real
disruptors here, and it may be they could be.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
I think the word you're looking for is delulu delusional. Anyways,
let's move on to the Cleveland Browns. Colin because obviously
Shador Sanders, he's the other gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
This summer.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Apparently, there's a report out that Shador has been outstanding
in the building despite all those pre draft concerns. Further
reports indicate that the future Hall of Fame quarterback Shaduor
Sanders hasn't worked with any first team offense in practices
attended by the media, but that he has made the
most of his reps with the reserves and has elevated
(24:43):
players in his time under center. I'll let you take
this from Big felt.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, I think he'll be fine. I would say Chador's
a little sillier than I love his personality. It's a
little silly sometimes that's not my cup of tea. I
like serious people, serious quarterbacks. I like Jalen. I've told
you before, Jalen Hurts is the perfect personality to be
a quarterback. I swear to god, he's got a briefcase.
He's an accountant. You'd think he owns the team. I
(25:10):
like that stoicism for quarterback. I don't want highly emotional.
Sometimes I think is a little silly. Sometimes it shows
his age. But I think he's going to be fine.
I don't think he's disruptive. There's a big difference between
being disruptive. Johnny Manzel was disruptive. Sometimes Cam could be
a little over the top and just being a little silly.
(25:30):
I think I think he needs to grow up a
little bit. I thought the legendary draft room, It's like, bro,
have some self awareness. This is not a good look.
You come from wealth. Nobody wants to see this. But
I don't think he's a disruptive force. I don't think
it Colorado, I don't think anything.
Speaker 6 (25:45):
Yeah, this points ultimately the thinger more at Dion is
the reason he's that should do or dropped because Dion
kept saying stuff as opposed to anything should do or
did right. It's kind of unfair, but maybe I'll make
the most of it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Final story coms to.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
The NBA, where the Pacers are going to try to
force a Game seven by winning tomorrow night. It's so
weird that this series has extra days off all over
the place. We're still waiting on word from Tyrese Halliburton's
MRI on his calf strain. Rick Carlisle says he'll be
a game time decision. Miles Turner says the series is
(26:19):
far from over. He did he did say that. I'm
curious do you think it's far from over?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
No, I think once Halliburton got hurt, it's done. Yeah,
I think that's fine. What are they have? Six? What
is the line, by the way, six seven and a
half right now? Yeah, I think Oklahoma City's probably the
bet tonight at six and a half. I think it's
I think Indiana's going to give you a great home punch.
I think they're going to play their butt off. Carlisle's
a great coach, but there are limitations to what they
(26:52):
can do. I mean, you got to play McConnell a
ton in this game because he's our best ball handler arguably,
I mean Turner, and you can see Oklahoma City's defense
without Halliburton on the floor. Is it feels like it's
another level of disruptive. We kept saying in the first
part of the series, the first four games, Indiana's getting
their looks. Have you noticed at the end last game
(27:13):
and the end of the previous game, when Halliburton's not
one hundred percent, it's totally disrupted. If they don't have
If you didn't have Magic Johnson, nothing against Byron Scott,
Michael Cooper, if you were pressing the Lakers, Magic make
it a magic made it. Okay, Well, you couldn't press
the Lakers too much because of magic. He would burn you.
(27:35):
Halliburton burns you. You take him out, Okay, See coaches
more aggressively. It's like a quarterback that doesn't read the
blitz Brady, Brady. You can't blitz Mahomes. You can't blitz
rookie quarterbacks. You blitz more because they can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So you think it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Let's say Halliburton's out.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
You think the move is to start McConnell.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I think he is able to ensure a certain tempo.
I think there's a he will not turn the ball over.
He is probably as good as ball handler as they
have off Halliburton. Because just think what OKAC is thinking.
They're looking at that last game and they're liking and
they're thinking, we totally took the Pacers out of their
(28:21):
game when Halliburton wasn't on the floor. Well, Halliburton's not
gonna be on the floor. You're gonna go right back
to that. Okac is going to be hyper aggressive. Let's
seize the moment. It's like we're a boxer and all
of a sudden, there's a flurry and the guys on
the ropes. You get hyper aggressive to finish it. Oklahoma City,
(28:43):
he wants to finish this final in the first quarter.
They want to take the crowd out of it. They
want to take I mean because that crowd there is
something else, so that okac's game plan. Let's eight minutes
into the game. We want the crowd to be out
of it, a non factor.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
McConnell is like the fan favorite. He checks into the game,
he gets like a saving ovation. I would bring him
off the bench. I would start Ben Matherick Colin. I
know it's a little off the board. I think Nemhar
can handle point guard bringing the ball up duties. And
you need a scorer because without Haliburton scoring, they're falling
behind by twenty. I think matherin could start, give you
twenty and then you still get the McConnell pop off
(29:21):
the bench, and I would much prefer McConnell facing backups
and facing those starters like I don't want to see
Lou dort On TJ McConnell.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I like McConnell.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
That ain't gonna be pretty.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, I think it's a competitive game, though, I think
Indiana's too prideful, too well coached too many good levers
to pull. But I think no Halliburton against that defense
is trouble. That is trouble. J Mack with a.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
News, Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by
the Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I don't if you went back to every in my
entire career of talking about Lebron James and let's say
they're a been, I mean a thousand segments. I think
I've been positive on nine hundred, maybe nine to seventy five.
But he did something the other day and I think,
(30:13):
my job, your job, if you do this for a living.
We got to call people out, and I got to
call it Braun out for something, and I don't do
it very much. I called him out a lot his
first year in LA when he seemed to be more
fascinated with business lunches and business deals than basketball. That's
probably the hardest I ever was. But and he doesn't
(30:34):
car either way. But he did something recently and it's
like time out, time out, you're projecting time out. I'll
get to that in a second.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and noone Easter, not a Empacific.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
The Road to twenty twenty six continues with the Gold
Cup tomorrow as the Stars and Strikes face off against
Middle East powerhouse Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
No Easy Path, No Second.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Chances tomorrow, nine Eastern on FS one.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Good Good, Good night tomorrow. NBA Team USA, what you know,
what I know, it's June J Mack. We're getting good sports.
There's a lot to talk about. So I think I'm
overwhelmingly uh positive with Lebron. I think most of the
greats of all time very positive with But but there
are times where he kind of plays the victim. I
(31:25):
think he spends too much time on his phone sometimes.
But here's a prime example. So he has a podcast
called Mind the Game with Steve Nash. Now it used
to be with JJ Reddick and uh he said something
and it just it's just projecting, and so let's let's
go to the clip.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
I don't know why I was discussed so much in
our sport, and why is the all be all of everything, Like, Okay,
you weren't a great player, if you never won a championship.
It's like you sit here and you tell me. You know,
Alan Iverson and Charles Barkley and Steve Nash, you know,
you know, wasn't unbelievable, like, oh, they can't be talked
(32:08):
about or discussed with these guys. Is because this guy
won one ring or won two rings or one like
is this weird to me?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Okay? Nobody says Charles Barkley is not amazing. Nobody says
Alan Iverson's not amazing. Nobody says Dan Marino's not amazing.
But Barkley is an MJ. And Marino's not Brady, even
though he was more talented. And the reason is the trophies,
and Lebron knows that Lebron has no chance to win
(32:39):
a trophy with the current Laer roster, so now they
don't matter. He spent his entire career pursuing titles. You
think he went to Miami to land the beach. He
went there for Riley and Spolstra and a better owner
and a better roster. He didn't go west. He stayed
in the week East to keep getting the finals. Lebron
(33:01):
pursued finals and Michael six for six For years He's
talked about idolizing Michael. What's the stat? What stat do
we talk about with Michael? If I said to you
how many total points did Michael score. You don't know
how many division titles did Michael win. You don't know
how do you do in the finals? Six for six?
(33:21):
That's his number, right, that's his number and so and
he's been doing this for years, playing this angle. It's
projecting its straw man arguments. And I love Lebron, I
really do. I like the people around Lebron. But let's
go back to years ago. So Lebron's saying the rings
are overrated. No they're not. And nobody's saying you have
(33:42):
to have them to be great, to be the all
time great, you gotta have them. So here's Lebron with
another guy like Rich Paul on More Than an Athlete podcast.
This was after he had won that ring, the only
one in Cleveland.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
That one, right, that made me the greatest player of
all time. For some fels, I was super super ecstatic
the win one for Cleveland because of the fifty two
year drought. Like I was ecstatic, like obviously I saw that.
The first wave of emotion was when Syall everyone saw
me crying like that was all for fifty two years,
everything the sports have gone on in Cleveland. And then
after I stopped, I was like that one right there
(34:25):
made you the greatest player of all time?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Well wait, why would that be? I mean it was
just another game, right, it was just another win. I
mean why would that take you from great to the
greatest player of all time? Oh? The ring? So back
when he was he knew he had a chance to
win several more, the ring mattered. See he was still
(34:51):
back then, Hey can he surpass Michael and get the
six seven eight? Now he can't. Now rings don't matter.
Rings absolutely are the difference. D was bigger, stronger, and
more talented than Brady. Brady got the trophies. That's the difference.
Farv was more athletically talented than Brady. Brady got the trophies.
Aaron's probably more gifted. Josh Allen is Brady's got the trophies.
(35:15):
Nobody's saying that Marino or Josh Allen aren't talented. I
think Josh Allen's the most talented football player in the world.
But Mahomes has the trophies and we can contextualize it
why they matter. I'm not a huge brock Purty fan,
but if he had two trophies, I'd have to acknowledge
he's a different player. He's just better than I think.
So it does matter, And Michael and Lebron knows it matters.
(35:40):
He himself is saying, yeah, when I won that that final,
that took me from best player in the league, maybe
greatest of all time to greatest of all time. Just
that ring, so that let's not create straw man arguments.
We all know the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and
(36:01):
a couple of them have no Super Bowls or won,
right right, But you talk the all time greatest, it's Peyton,
and it's Brady, and it's Montana. Montana was a third
round pick, third or fourth. He wasn't the most talented guy.
Some of it was Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice. It
doesn't matter you get him. I mean, Eli Manning was
never a good regular season quarterback. He's gonna get into
(36:23):
the Hall of Fame because he beat Brady and Belichick
twice in Super Bowls and made two of the most
iconic throws. Otherwise, how many Pro Bowls, how many great
regular see the difference between Philip Rivers a really good
regular season quarterback, and Eli Manning not so hot. But
two rings is the trophies, so it obviously matters. I
(36:43):
got so many. I want to go back because I
got some Dodgers padres. That series is that series, that
Dodger podre series. It is not. So I'm going to
talk about the Top of the Hour. And also Lamar
Jackson wants to get more money, which which I'm not
bothered by. But j Mack's I want to talk about
I want to go back for a couple of minutes
(37:04):
to Caitlin Clark and so one of the things that
I think makes America really special. The Dodgers recently had
a national anthem singer decide, you know, during the ice raids,
I'm going to do my version of it, not not
(37:24):
are the American version of it? And it was dissent
on display. And whether you agree with that or not,
it's allowed. The next day she woke up and it's
fine and she's not being placed in a prison or worse.
What makes America great is the discomfort that is allowed
(37:45):
and the dissension and the protests. Saturday, my daughter and
I were in downtown Chicago. There was a Palestinian rally.
There was a No King rally. I mean, it was organized.
It was four hours, a little bit disruptive. The traffic
downtown not walk or workflow, but a little disruptive. But
the great thing about this country is dissent is not
(38:07):
only possible, it's often encouraged. And in sports, we don't
have that level of descent right the league's control stuff,
but we do see things in real time. And often
one of the truest observations of this, or illustrations of this,
is when you get a star into a league and
(38:28):
the employee slash. The athletes don't like how they're treated
and don't like how they're changing the direction of the league.
So Michael Jordan made the NBA Global and Gretzky won
eight straight MVPs, and what happens, by the way, Muhammad
al LEI, my dad didn't like him. He like Frasier.
(38:50):
I was only Caitlin Clark is essential. The Caitlin Clarks,
the Michael Jordan's, the Christian poolisic saying I'm not gonna
go and play. It is essential to American sports. These
disruptive figures who just don't always either told the company
line for the GM for the drives us crazy. To
(39:13):
scent drives us crazy. But Caitlin Clark is basically saying, yeah,
I'm gonna score, I'm going to change the tempo. I'm
going to do a little trash talking. I'm gonna have
my tongue out, and here come the rivals, here comes retaliation,
and this is essential for the growth in this league.
It's weird.
Speaker 6 (39:32):
I mean, I kind of agree with that, But Colin,
I don't think it's anything Caitlyn Clerk's doing that has
everybody jealous and angry about her in the league.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I think it's that.
Speaker 6 (39:41):
The league says, we've been playing basketball. This league's been
around for twenty years. We've been here forever. Why is
the media Why are you guys only now showing up
with microphones in our face because of Caitlin Clark. Well,
I think a lot of this is media driven, Like
players are angry seeing Kaitlin Clark highlights all over social media.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You know what, you never had a Moses Malone fan club? Why?
Because he scored on layups under the basket. Stylistically, Moses
Malone was a dominant player, but he wasn't a polarizing player.
He didn't create animosity. Do you remember? Because style? Stylistically,
Curry got attention, Michael got attention, Magic got attention. Caitlyn's
(40:22):
getting attention. The style does matter, not just point Karl
Malone boring, Moses Malone great, but boring. They didn't create
that kind of uproar. When your style is flashy and
can humiliate other players, that's when it gets personal. That's
(40:43):
when you send the bullies after him to send the message.
And I do think Caitlin's style is it rubs people,
sometimes the wrong way. I love it, You love it.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh, here we go, it is O Wednesday. It's a
Caitlin Clark Wednesday. How grateful are we? How lucky are
we in June? You know, this industry is football season
and waiting for football. That Caitlin Clark has become a
leading source of content. All we could talk about Aaron Rodgers.
(00:50):
I am for Caitlin Clark. Jmac texted me last night,
the gift that keeps on giving. I do think the media,
the media is prone to do this. You know, the
media tends to be very reactionary, and the fans generally
get it more than the media. So I want to
start with this, j Mac. The WNBA has arrived. Caitlin
(01:11):
Clark's gotten really good, really fast. It's like the end
of year one for Michael Jordan or year three for
Michael Jordan. She's gotten really good, really fast, and you
got to put a body on her, or you got
a double teamer, or she's gonna embarrass you. She's shooting
thirty three footers and what happened last night's a byproduct
of that. This is what happened to MJ. She's number
(01:32):
one and two in every offensive stat. She's hitting more
threes this season than Steph Curry did in his first
MVP season, and her game embarrasses you. So like men's basketball,
J C. Sheldon had the task of stopping stopping the
latest superstar in her basketball league. And this thing was chatty.
In the second quarter, it was chatty. They've got history.
(01:54):
It was trash talking. And then in the third quarter,
Sheldon poked her in the eye. Again, this is something
we see all the time. They were on each other,
they were talking. It was trashy, the superstar like MJ
unstoppable poker in the eye and that's a flagrant fowl
and it should have been a flagrant foul. And then
(02:15):
Marina Maybray this is inappropriate, came over, knocked her over.
Minnie dug she should have been thrown out of the game. Well,
she got it. She didn't get a technical it's a
little bad Boys Pistons with MJ. For the record, Caitlin
Clark got up, she wasn't hurt. She did more trash talking,
she hit more threes. She remained remarkable, just like all
(02:38):
the great You know, if you respect women, stop pandering.
She's tough, she's feisty, she likes to taunt and talk,
and nobody quite knows what the hell to do. I
mean when Candace Parker ten years ago, Candace Parker led
this sport WNBA and assists with six a game. Caitlin
Clark's not only the best guard, the best shoe hitting
(03:00):
thirty three footers. They're flashy and kind of embarrass you.
She's averaging nine assists the game. She's changed the entire
tempo of the sport. Forget the merchandise, that's another segment.
So they don't know what to do. Hack a shack
Mike Dunlavy coach and the Blazers, we can't stop him.
And we have our Vitas Sabonis Steph Curry's first couple
of years in the league. Thank God for Draymond Green.
(03:23):
And by the way, this league, they knew what they
were getting into right like, and I'll get to this
in a second. But they brought Sophie Cunningham over in
a trade for a reason. She's the youngest black belt
in the state of Missouri's history, six years old. They
brought her over to protect Caitlin Clark because they saw
this puppy coming. The league doesn't quite know what to do,
(03:45):
but the fever did. And so again, you got to
put a body on You got to get physical. If
you go look at the history of basketball, high school, college, WNBA, NBA.
If there's an offensive player and there's humiliating you steph shack, MJ. Caitlin,
what do you do. You can't trap her, She'll dribble
(04:05):
through it. You gotta put a body on her. You
got a double teamer. You try to get in her
head with trash talking. It's not working at all. It's
the ultimate compliment in my opinion. But take a deep breath.
Caitlin bounced up the eye. Couldn't have been gouge that
violently because she could see just fine draining jumpers after.
(04:28):
Do I think it crossed a line? Yeah, that's why
we had a flagrant foul and a technicol And do
I think the officials are trying to figure out how
quite the officiator. Yes, I was at the Blazers Lakers
series in Los Angeles. I know where I was sitting
behind the basket when Kobe hit Shack for the slam dunk,
and I looked over at Bob Whitsitt at the time,
(04:50):
the GM of the Blazers, and thought we had our
venus of bonus with the Blazers. We couldn't stop him.
They didn't know how to officiate him. This is what
happens when the superstar emerges and here is the coach
of the fever after.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
This is what happens, right, This is what happens. You've
got competitive women who are the best in the world
at what they do, right, and when you allow them
to play physical and you allow these things to happen,
they're gonna compete and they're gonna have their teammates backs.
It's exactly what you expect right out of out of
fierce competition. So I started talking to the officials in
the first quarter, and we knew this was gonna happen.
(05:28):
They got to get control of it. They got to
be better. They got to be better.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Can you specifically detail what you mean might get control
of the game, just to be, in your words, get.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Control of the game.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Is called the fouls that are actually.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Happening on the floor. Okay, so and again let's go
to the next level on this, so everybody's going to
be okay. There was a technical, there was a flagrant,
and the officials of the WA are kind of figuring out,
how do we how do we officiate this thing? Okay,
they've never out of Caitlin Clark. How do we officiate
this thing? How do we officiate Shack? How do we
(05:58):
officiate Curry when they're coming after him? How do we
efficient bad boys tackling? What's legal? Finally the NBA stepped
and said no hand checking, No, you know, forearm in
the back like this stuff is a work in progress.
And so the first year Caitlin Clark was in the WNBA,
they were Hazinger. They're not Hazinger anymore. They're just trying
to figure out how the whodle stopper. It's not hazing,
(06:21):
it's all right. Traps pressure. So the Fever saw it coming.
They went and got Sophie Cunningham, six year old black belt.
This is what the Bulls did with Charles Oakley to
protect Michael Jordan, and I said this last year several times.
The WNBA is not a vertical league. Their players can't
jump over each other to score like the NBA. It's
a horizontal, chippy league. And you didn't watch the NBA
(06:43):
for the last ten to twelve years. It is always
been physical and ohways been chippy. You get into a
lot of collisions because they don't There's no Jah Morant here,
there's no Aunt Edwards. They don't jump over. It's a
horizontal physical league. And in Caitlin Clark now is like
Kerosene to the physicality flame. So you have physicality in
this league. And now you get this slashy player and
(07:05):
they don't know how to officiate her, they don't know
how to defend her. But I would say when I
hear this, Colin, Colin, Colin, the NB the w NBA,
Colin has got to do something. Yes, they do understand.
This is the arc of a new superstar in your league.
It'll start with hazing, it'll go to physicality, it'll go
(07:26):
to flagrants, it may go to technicals. You'll eventually have
to get a Sophie Cunningham, er a Charles Oakley. I
mean Wayne Gretzky did this for years. They figured it
out in hockey. How do you stop Gretzky? Oh, we can't.
How do you stop MJ We can't. How do you
stop Caitlin Clark? You guys understand this is the worst
(07:47):
she'll ever be. She's getting better and they can't stop her.
And so, but I also want you to watch this
because I've always said this, the media may overreact to stuff.
The fans in American public usually doesn't watch the retaliation
later by Sophie Cunningham. And again, this is inappropriate right now,
It's what happens in basketball. But I want you to
(08:08):
watch as this scrum's going on. Watch the fans behind
Sophie Cunningham. Watch them. They're smiling, they're engaged, they're happy,
they're not horrified. The Indiana fans understand what they're seeing.
It's part of the process. They went those people in Indiana,
(08:31):
they've gone to the Nick games and Spike Lee and
Reggie Miller. They watched the heat. Look at the look
at the fans. They're grabbing their phones, they're taking pictures.
I'm thinking the whole night, did Nick Kahn take over
the WNBA? We got a little WWE going on here,
and the fans get it. The media, in my opinion,
(08:52):
the media does a disk service sports media, political media
by overreacting to everything. And the Indian fans are like,
this is fun, this is real. The WNBA, now you
go to those games. There are nights the Fever out
drew the Pacers. Facers are in the finals. So the
(09:14):
fans here are not freaking out, They're booing. Honest to god,
it feels like a little you know, sports isn't terrible
if it's got a little WWE in basketball, like international
soccer has always been personality in star driven and when
new stars emerge. I can remember Christian Poolisic his first
(09:36):
World Cup and some of the quote friendlies, they were
tackling him and an American can do that. He'd played
in Mexico, maybe Canada. What do you do when a
star emerges. You can't stop them. Their game is flashy.
It goes from hazing to physicality to flagrance to ejections.
(10:00):
It's part of it. The only good thing about getting old,
and I'm not that old, but I'm kind of old
is you've seen all this stuff before. I've seen this
like eight times. I saw it in Honckey with Gretzky.
So listen, if you watch Gordon Ramsay the greatest chef
in the world right or one of them, it gets
toxic in that kitchen, John Taffer and Bar Rescue, it
(10:23):
gets toxic change. People don't like change, but intensity and
heat creates steel. This will only make Caitlin Clark a
better player. It will only make the fever more championship ready,
and the Indiana fans, good for you. You're gonna have
the great watch of the next fifteen years because they're
never trading her. She's the Steph Curry. They're never trading her.
(10:46):
She starts here, college here or near here. And by
the way, that whole scrum and that retaliation and the
delays in the game that everybody's freaking out over, Caitlin
Clark's like, can we got back to playing?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Honestly, the review took too long for me. I wanted
to get playing basketball again. And that's exactly what I did.
At the rest of the third quarter, I made all
three free throws and then I you know, it was
a tough three. I was excited about a three, and
you know, honestly got to give our crowd a lot
of credit too. I thought they were tremendous. You know,
they're cheering for us, they had our back. And I'm
a passionate player. But at the end of the day,
(11:23):
like I'm here to play basketball and that's what it is,
and my game's going to talk and that's all all
that really matters. And I love this game and I'm
going to give it everything I have. So I think
that's what competitors do. You just step right back up
to the challenge.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
That's what competitors do. That's what they do. Let's not pander,
let's not protect. Let's understand the WNBA. I had been
to a couple WNBA games. The league wasn't nearly as
good or watchable. Fifteen years ago, people could lead the
(11:57):
league and assists with five or six. Now you've got
multiple players at nine to ten. People are shooting thirty
three footers. Watch a WNBA game, If go watch the
highlights on YouTube of this game, look at the passing,
look at the physicality, look at the shooting. This league
is growing in front of our eyes. Now. Caitlin Clark
(12:17):
is obviously the jet fuel. Half the audience goes when
she's not there, But that's Okay, it took Connor McGregor
to the UFC and John Jones. It sometimes in emerging
leagues it takes a superstar and now and now you know,
America is all into UFC, but it does take sometimes
these special athletes and it can be getting really, really bumpy.
(12:43):
But if you really respect all these amazing women's athletes,
then take a deep breath. Nobody got hurt Jmac. That
was so fun. By the way, if you do go
to the YouTube WNBA highlights, they edit out the fighting part.
Oh well, of course they do, so you have to
(13:04):
go get that separately. But the point is you're old
enough to know. I mean, those Knicks teams with pat Riley,
those were tackling exercises for years. There's videos of Kurt
Rambus being slammed to the floor.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
This stuff was and I think fans know this. You
know when that when when Sophie Cunningham comes down and
tackles the girl, it's like, hey, I'm protecting my star.
And my take was, this is the process we want
to make. We're gonna let you know at the end
of the game, you're not getting out of this arena
without us retaliating that is a message to every other
(13:37):
WNBA team. You're going for a driving layup. You treat
our player like that. This is how we're gonna treat yours.
That may get a technical, but that was a message
and that's okay.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
So the Lakers Kurt Rambus stuff. In the eighties, the
teams didn't like each other. They were rivals, right.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
This Colin is different.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
This is many players around the league not liking Caitlin
Clark or they're jealous of her. Sixth say, you know,
I know people tried to make this a racial thing. Well,
what happened last night was not racial. That's just hate
and just they just don't like Kaitlyn Clark. They don't
like the attention she's getting. I mean, the ipoke was
so blatant, and the announcer as soon as Kaitlin Clark
got knocked over, was like, oh, she's gonna get ejected.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
They didn't eject the girl.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Can you believe that?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I say this, I wouldn't have been bothered if she
was ejected. I'm not bothered that she wasn't. It's obviously
a cheap shot. Yeah, it's a cheap shot. Caitlin Clark,
by the way, got right back up. Still, yeah, I
just I think in the reality of this is yes,
obviously that's a cheap shot.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
But what do you think the league wants Colin Kayln
Clark splashing thirty foot three pointers or three scrums in
the in the sun Fever game.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
They didn't want this. This doesn't lie. I think. I
think everybody's figuring out this jigsaw puzzle and it's it
just takes a while. When Michael Jordan came in, I mean,
you're you're watching this stuff, and David's turn saying, oh
my god, this guy's making our league global. He's selling
more shoes than any player in the history of the world.
(15:08):
And David Stern's like, we have to protect him. But
yet the Pistons tackled him for years and David Stern,
the late David Sterns step back, let it play out,
didn't protect Michael knew. Eventually they changed some officiating. Michael,
by the way, in year two got hurt, broke his foot,
so we had year one in year three. So again,
(15:31):
we all wantia. The sports can be very similar to politics.
We all want answers today, and everything's a process. We
prepare for our show. It's a process. You. Ninety percent
of sports is practiced, not games, right, We only see
the games. You didn't see Michael Jordan punch Steve Kerr.
We did see Draymond punch pool because we have phones now.
(15:53):
But there's a lot of stuff that happens among teams.
Teams fight amongst themselves in camp. We don't see most
of that. So we're so shocked when we see that bump.
I got news for you. You can find scrums in
the WNBA ten years ago. They don't jump over each other.
That's not what this leg is. They bang into each other.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
By the way, everybody's going to see this. Kayla Clark's
Oh when's the next game? Guess where their game is
televised on Thursday? Amazon Prime, almost the Patrick Mahomes, Chiefs,
Travis Kelce, Taylor Swift Effect, Taylor Clark.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
On Amazon Prime on Thursday. So exciting, We've got more,
plus Lebron being a bit of a hipocrite. It's the hurt.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
All right, welcome back, Mark Sanchez, by the way top
of the hour. So you may think I'm embellishing when
I say there's a lot of similarities between Michael Jordan
and Caitlin Clark, But think about this. So both were
very popular in college. Caitlyn got to national championship, didn't
win it, but was sensational. Michael won a title his
(17:09):
last two years in college. He didn't but was sensational.
Both had flashy games that were different. Before Michael got
to the Bulls, they were awful twenty seven to fifty five.
First year in. He improved him by eleven games. They
made the playoffs. They still weren't great, but he got
him into the playoffs. Pre Kaitlyn Clark fever awful after
her first year, got him into the playoffs. Still weren't
a great team. By the end of year one, though
(17:31):
for Michael, we were thinking, is this guy a top
three player in the league? By the end of last
year outside of Asia Wilson, We're thinking, is Kaitlyn a
top three player in the league by year three? Michael
got hurt in year two. Year three, Michael MVP year two.
For Caitlin, hopefully she doesn't get hurt, will she be
an MVP she's our second right now. In odds, these
are very similar players. Both sold a ton of merchandise.
(17:55):
We fell in love with him and knew him. Michael's
at North Carolina went in a title taking the shot
facing Georgetown. Everybody didn't even go number one, but everybody's like,
who is this guy? Bobby Knight at the time said,
most talented guy I've ever seen in the basketball court ever.
Caitlyn Clark merch popularity, bad team gets him into the
(18:16):
playoffs and by the second full year of playing, are
they the best player in the league. They are the
MVP of the league. I mean she is the MVP.
She may not win the award, she's the MVP of
the league. And in both instances, both staffs, coaching staffs
and organizations understood that they had to protect their players.
The Bulls went out and got Charles Oakley, the intimidator,
(18:39):
the enforcer, to protect Michael because they started seeing how
people were defending him and fouling him. Caitlyn Clark, they
go and get the fever. Sophie Cunningham, as I said earlier,
six years old, had a black belt, youngest black belt
to this day ever granted in the State of Missouri.
(18:59):
She's an intimidator. You saw it last night, the Fever
like like the Bulls. The Bulls knew what they had.
They had to protect their asset. And in both instances,
the early Bulls coaches complained about how their star Michael
Jordan was being treated, and the coach of the Fever,
Stephanie White, saying the same thing is hey, guys, catch
(19:22):
up to the players. The game has changed so much.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Players are faster, they're better, they're bigger, they're stronger. You know,
they're as good as they've ever been. There, as athletic
as they've ever been. The game is fast now, things
are happening quickly. Everybody's getting better except the officials. So
we got to find a way to remedy it.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Listen, Stan Albrook, Doug Collins, Phil Jackson were constantly lamenting
how Michael was officiated. And again I'm not defending the
Connecticut Sun. I when you can't stop somebody, traps don't work,
doubles don't work. Connecticut's like, all right, let's get the
physicality route. And by the way, nobody ever stops Shack
(20:11):
really or Michael or Bird or Magic or Kobe or
Duncan or Caitlin Clark or Kandas Parker or Serena will
the greats just endure the greats get theirs. But you
got to figure out a way to slow down. I mean,
the Pacers tried with SGA worked a little bit, and
now it doesn't because he's gonna get his So, uh,
(20:33):
what a night? How much fun? J Mack with the news.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
You know, I don't have any data to back this up,
but you've had this show for what twenty years? The
Herd There's no way you've ever opened with twenty minutes
of straight wnba.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Ever, that just shows the Kaitlin Clark effect.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
Man, unbelieve.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I don't have a research to back that up, but
I'm gonna go with your right.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
All right, Let's go back to a tried and drew
fella on the show, and that's Aaron Rodgers, Colin. I mean,
hey went in doubt Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Let's talk about him.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
Interestingly, a new report emerged that Pittsburgh came to the
conclusion that George Pickens and Aaron Rodgers would not get
along well. Obviously, Pickens, very immature, had issues in college,
and that's why they traded him before Aaron Rodgers even
came on board. Now, I'm not saying this is the
(21:26):
level of the Jets playcating Rogers. Hey, what would you
like offensive coordinator, wide receiver? Whatever you want, we'll give
it to you. But this is starting to show, Hey, Aaron,
we're gonna do what it takes to get you on board.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I don't love it, but let's see.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
If they draw the line at trading Pickens.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
One of the ways I've always defended Aaron Rodgers is
Tom Brady had no interest with immature wide receivers. Don't
get me Welker, who's in the league. Edelman took years
to develop. Get me Randy Moss, and Randy Moss, by
the way, was no trouble first couple of years in
New England, and he was like like rain Man knowing
(22:01):
offense right. Belichick and Brady will talk about that. I'm
going to defend Aaron Rodgers. Older quarterbacks don't want to
babysit wide receivers. Dak Prescott came in. I defended it,
I think privately said listen, Dez is a headache. He's
screaming at me on the sidelines, and Dez was a
touchdown maker. But Dak, I'm not a babysitter, Brady, I'm
(22:25):
not a babysitter. Aaron Rodgers, I'm going to back him
one hundred percent here. He didn't have time to schedule
a bad time, as Jerry Jones would say, he didn't
have time for George Pickens to mature. Let's go get
DK Metcalf, who, by the way, little maintenance. But he's
an adult, he's been in the league. So I support
(22:47):
the Steelers here. I support Aaron Rodgers here. Aaron's gonna
play one more year. You don't want to spend nine
games having to cool this guy off after he didn't
throw it to him on a post route.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Colin, you just bought up an interesting point.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
So Aaron Rodgers I don't have time. Do you think
Aaron Rodgers in his head thinks, hey man, I could
win a Super Bowl or I could compete for a
Super Bowl with Pittsburgh this year.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Do you think he believes that in his head.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I'm never going to try to get into Aaron's head.
I think all athletes have supreme confidence and generally have
higher regards for their Super Bowl chances than reality. I
think everybody in September the Atlanta Falcons during camp, coaching
staff's going to be telling him you guys can win
it all.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Oh no, that's different. I'm talking about Rogers specifically. He
could have walked away from football.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Nobody would have believed. I think Aaron Aaron looks at
it and thinks, this is easily the best defense I've
ever had, easily dk metcalfs are, You'll be the most
talented receiver I've had. We got a high end tight end,
We've drafted the offense. I mean, Fraser's one of the
top three centers in the league now from West Virginia.
So I think Aaron looks at it and goes, hey,
(23:57):
this is going to be like the Jets without the chaos.
And at the end of the year, the Jets were
pretty interesting when they didn't have as much chaos. So
I think Aaron's talked himself into we can be real
disruptors here, and it may be they could be.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
I think the word you're looking for is delulu delusional. Anyways,
let's move on to the Cleveland Browns. Colin because obviously
Shador Sanders, he's the other gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
This summer.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Apparently, there's a report out that Shador has been outstanding
in the building despite all those pre draft concerns. Further
reports indicate that the future Hall of Fame quarterback Shaduor
Sanders hasn't worked with any first team offense in practices
attended by the media, but that he has made the
most of his reps with the reserves and has elevated
(24:43):
players in his time under center. I'll let you take
this from Big felt.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, I think he'll be fine. I would say Chador's
a little sillier than I love his personality. It's a
little silly sometimes that's not my cup of tea. I
like serious people, serious quarterbacks. I like Jalen. I've told
you before, Jalen Hurts is the perfect personality to be
a quarterback. I swear to god, he's got a briefcase.
He's an accountant. You'd think he owns the team. I
(25:10):
like that stoicism for quarterback. I don't want highly emotional.
Sometimes I think is a little silly. Sometimes it shows
his age. But I think he's going to be fine.
I don't think he's disruptive. There's a big difference between
being disruptive. Johnny Manzel was disruptive. Sometimes Cam could be
a little over the top and just being a little silly.
(25:30):
I think I think he needs to grow up a
little bit. I thought the legendary draft room, It's like, bro,
have some self awareness. This is not a good look.
You come from wealth. Nobody wants to see this. But
I don't think he's a disruptive force. I don't think
it Colorado, I don't think anything.
Speaker 6 (25:45):
Yeah, this points ultimately the thinger more at Dion is
the reason he's that should do or dropped because Dion
kept saying stuff as opposed to anything should do or
did right. It's kind of unfair, but maybe I'll make
the most of it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Final story coms to.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
The NBA, where the Pacers are going to try to
force a Game seven by winning tomorrow night. It's so
weird that this series has extra days off all over
the place. We're still waiting on word from Tyrese Halliburton's
MRI on his calf strain. Rick Carlisle says he'll be
a game time decision. Miles Turner says the series is
(26:19):
far from over. He did he did say that. I'm
curious do you think it's far from over?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
No, I think once Halliburton got hurt, it's done. Yeah,
I think that's fine. What are they have? Six? What
is the line, by the way, six seven and a
half right now? Yeah, I think Oklahoma City's probably the
bet tonight at six and a half. I think it's
I think Indiana's going to give you a great home punch.
I think they're going to play their butt off. Carlisle's
a great coach, but there are limitations to what they
(26:52):
can do. I mean, you got to play McConnell a
ton in this game because he's our best ball handler arguably,
I mean Turner, and you can see Oklahoma City's defense
without Halliburton on the floor. Is it feels like it's
another level of disruptive. We kept saying in the first
part of the series, the first four games, Indiana's getting
their looks. Have you noticed at the end last game
(27:13):
and the end of the previous game, when Halliburton's not
one hundred percent, it's totally disrupted. If they don't have
If you didn't have Magic Johnson, nothing against Byron Scott,
Michael Cooper, if you were pressing the Lakers, Magic make
it a magic made it. Okay, Well, you couldn't press
the Lakers too much because of magic. He would burn you.
(27:35):
Halliburton burns you. You take him out, Okay, See coaches
more aggressively. It's like a quarterback that doesn't read the
blitz Brady, Brady. You can't blitz Mahomes. You can't blitz
rookie quarterbacks. You blitz more because they can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So you think it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Let's say Halliburton's out.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
You think the move is to start McConnell.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I think he is able to ensure a certain tempo.
I think there's a he will not turn the ball over.
He is probably as good as ball handler as they
have off Halliburton. Because just think what OKAC is thinking.
They're looking at that last game and they're liking and
they're thinking, we totally took the Pacers out of their
(28:21):
game when Halliburton wasn't on the floor. Well, Halliburton's not
gonna be on the floor. You're gonna go right back
to that. Okac is going to be hyper aggressive. Let's
seize the moment. It's like we're a boxer and all
of a sudden, there's a flurry and the guys on
the ropes. You get hyper aggressive to finish it. Oklahoma City,
(28:43):
he wants to finish this final in the first quarter.
They want to take the crowd out of it. They
want to take I mean because that crowd there is
something else, so that okac's game plan. Let's eight minutes
into the game. We want the crowd to be out
of it, a non factor.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
McConnell is like the fan favorite. He checks into the game,
he gets like a saving ovation. I would bring him
off the bench. I would start Ben Matherick Colin. I
know it's a little off the board. I think Nemhar
can handle point guard bringing the ball up duties. And
you need a scorer because without Haliburton scoring, they're falling
behind by twenty. I think matherin could start, give you
twenty and then you still get the McConnell pop off
(29:21):
the bench, and I would much prefer McConnell facing backups
and facing those starters like I don't want to see
Lou dort On TJ McConnell.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I like McConnell.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
That ain't gonna be pretty.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, I think it's a competitive game, though, I think
Indiana's too prideful, too well coached too many good levers
to pull. But I think no Halliburton against that defense
is trouble. That is trouble. J Mack with a.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
News, Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by
the Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I don't if you went back to every in my
entire career of talking about Lebron James and let's say
they're a been, I mean a thousand segments. I think
I've been positive on nine hundred, maybe nine to seventy five.
But he did something the other day and I think,
(30:13):
my job, your job, if you do this for a living.
We got to call people out, and I got to
call it Braun out for something, and I don't do
it very much. I called him out a lot his
first year in LA when he seemed to be more
fascinated with business lunches and business deals than basketball. That's
probably the hardest I ever was. But and he doesn't
(30:34):
car either way. But he did something recently and it's
like time out, time out, you're projecting time out. I'll
get to that in a second.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and noone Easter, not a Empacific.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
The Road to twenty twenty six continues with the Gold
Cup tomorrow as the Stars and Strikes face off against
Middle East powerhouse Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
No Easy Path, No Second.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Chances tomorrow, nine Eastern on FS one.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Good Good, Good night tomorrow. NBA Team USA, what you know,
what I know, it's June J Mack. We're getting good sports.
There's a lot to talk about. So I think I'm
overwhelmingly uh positive with Lebron. I think most of the
greats of all time very positive with But but there
are times where he kind of plays the victim. I
(31:25):
think he spends too much time on his phone sometimes.
But here's a prime example. So he has a podcast
called Mind the Game with Steve Nash. Now it used
to be with JJ Reddick and uh he said something
and it just it's just projecting, and so let's let's
go to the clip.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
I don't know why I was discussed so much in
our sport, and why is the all be all of everything, Like, Okay,
you weren't a great player, if you never won a championship.
It's like you sit here and you tell me. You know,
Alan Iverson and Charles Barkley and Steve Nash, you know,
you know, wasn't unbelievable, like, oh, they can't be talked
(32:08):
about or discussed with these guys. Is because this guy
won one ring or won two rings or one like
is this weird to me?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Okay? Nobody says Charles Barkley is not amazing. Nobody says
Alan Iverson's not amazing. Nobody says Dan Marino's not amazing.
But Barkley is an MJ. And Marino's not Brady, even
though he was more talented. And the reason is the trophies,
and Lebron knows that Lebron has no chance to win
(32:39):
a trophy with the current Laer roster, so now they
don't matter. He spent his entire career pursuing titles. You
think he went to Miami to land the beach. He
went there for Riley and Spolstra and a better owner
and a better roster. He didn't go west. He stayed
in the week East to keep getting the finals. Lebron
(33:01):
pursued finals and Michael six for six For years He's
talked about idolizing Michael. What's the stat? What stat do
we talk about with Michael? If I said to you
how many total points did Michael score. You don't know
how many division titles did Michael win. You don't know
how do you do in the finals? Six for six?
(33:21):
That's his number, right, that's his number and so and
he's been doing this for years, playing this angle. It's
projecting its straw man arguments. And I love Lebron, I
really do. I like the people around Lebron. But let's
go back to years ago. So Lebron's saying the rings
are overrated. No they're not. And nobody's saying you have
(33:42):
to have them to be great, to be the all
time great, you gotta have them. So here's Lebron with
another guy like Rich Paul on More Than an Athlete podcast.
This was after he had won that ring, the only
one in Cleveland.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
That one, right, that made me the greatest player of
all time. For some fels, I was super super ecstatic
the win one for Cleveland because of the fifty two
year drought. Like I was ecstatic, like obviously I saw that.
The first wave of emotion was when Syall everyone saw
me crying like that was all for fifty two years,
everything the sports have gone on in Cleveland. And then
after I stopped, I was like that one right there
(34:25):
made you the greatest player of all time?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Well wait, why would that be? I mean it was
just another game, right, it was just another win. I
mean why would that take you from great to the
greatest player of all time? Oh? The ring? So back
when he was he knew he had a chance to
win several more, the ring mattered. See he was still
(34:51):
back then, Hey can he surpass Michael and get the
six seven eight? Now he can't. Now rings don't matter.
Rings absolutely are the difference. D was bigger, stronger, and
more talented than Brady. Brady got the trophies. That's the difference.
Farv was more athletically talented than Brady. Brady got the trophies.
Aaron's probably more gifted. Josh Allen is Brady's got the trophies.
(35:15):
Nobody's saying that Marino or Josh Allen aren't talented. I
think Josh Allen's the most talented football player in the world.
But Mahomes has the trophies and we can contextualize it
why they matter. I'm not a huge brock Purty fan,
but if he had two trophies, I'd have to acknowledge
he's a different player. He's just better than I think.
So it does matter, And Michael and Lebron knows it matters.
(35:40):
He himself is saying, yeah, when I won that that final,
that took me from best player in the league, maybe
greatest of all time to greatest of all time. Just
that ring, so that let's not create straw man arguments.
We all know the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and
(36:01):
a couple of them have no Super Bowls or won,
right right, But you talk the all time greatest, it's Peyton,
and it's Brady, and it's Montana. Montana was a third
round pick, third or fourth. He wasn't the most talented guy.
Some of it was Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice. It
doesn't matter you get him. I mean, Eli Manning was
never a good regular season quarterback. He's gonna get into
(36:23):
the Hall of Fame because he beat Brady and Belichick
twice in Super Bowls and made two of the most
iconic throws. Otherwise, how many Pro Bowls, how many great
regular see the difference between Philip Rivers a really good
regular season quarterback, and Eli Manning not so hot. But
two rings is the trophies, so it obviously matters. I
(36:43):
got so many. I want to go back because I
got some Dodgers padres. That series is that series, that
Dodger podre series. It is not. So I'm going to
talk about the Top of the Hour. And also Lamar
Jackson wants to get more money, which which I'm not
bothered by. But j Mack's I want to talk about
I want to go back for a couple of minutes
(37:04):
to Caitlin Clark and so one of the things that
I think makes America really special. The Dodgers recently had
a national anthem singer decide, you know, during the ice raids,
I'm going to do my version of it, not not
(37:24):
are the American version of it? And it was dissent
on display. And whether you agree with that or not,
it's allowed. The next day she woke up and it's
fine and she's not being placed in a prison or worse.
What makes America great is the discomfort that is allowed
(37:45):
and the dissension and the protests. Saturday, my daughter and
I were in downtown Chicago. There was a Palestinian rally.
There was a No King rally. I mean, it was organized.
It was four hours, a little bit disruptive. The traffic
downtown not walk or workflow, but a little disruptive. But
the great thing about this country is dissent is not
(38:07):
only possible, it's often encouraged. And in sports, we don't
have that level of descent right the league's control stuff,
but we do see things in real time. And often
one of the truest observations of this, or illustrations of this,
is when you get a star into a league and
(38:28):
the employee slash. The athletes don't like how they're treated
and don't like how they're changing the direction of the league.
So Michael Jordan made the NBA Global and Gretzky won
eight straight MVPs, and what happens, by the way, Muhammad
al LEI, my dad didn't like him. He like Frasier.
(38:50):
I was only Caitlin Clark is essential. The Caitlin Clarks,
the Michael Jordan's, the Christian poolisic saying I'm not gonna
go and play. It is essential to American sports. These
disruptive figures who just don't always either told the company
line for the GM for the drives us crazy. To
(39:13):
scent drives us crazy. But Caitlin Clark is basically saying, yeah,
I'm gonna score, I'm going to change the tempo. I'm
going to do a little trash talking. I'm gonna have
my tongue out, and here come the rivals, here comes retaliation,
and this is essential for the growth in this league.
It's weird.
Speaker 6 (39:32):
I mean, I kind of agree with that, But Colin,
I don't think it's anything Caitlyn Clerk's doing that has
everybody jealous and angry about her in the league.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I think it's that.
Speaker 6 (39:41):
The league says, we've been playing basketball. This league's been
around for twenty years. We've been here forever. Why is
the media Why are you guys only now showing up
with microphones in our face because of Caitlin Clark. Well,
I think a lot of this is media driven, Like
players are angry seeing Kaitlin Clark highlights all over social media.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You know what, you never had a Moses Malone fan club? Why?
Because he scored on layups under the basket. Stylistically, Moses
Malone was a dominant player, but he wasn't a polarizing player.
He didn't create animosity. Do you remember? Because style? Stylistically,
Curry got attention, Michael got attention, Magic got attention. Caitlyn's
(40:22):
getting attention. The style does matter, not just point Karl
Malone boring, Moses Malone great, but boring. They didn't create
that kind of uproar. When your style is flashy and
can humiliate other players, that's when it gets personal. That's
(40:43):
when you send the bullies after him to send the message.
And I do think Caitlin's style is it rubs people,
sometimes the wrong way. I love it, You love it.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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