June 2, 2025 • 41 mins
Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin to defend his Knicks and send a message of patience after their loss to the Pacers in the Eastern Conference Finals
He believes Deion Sanders made a big mistake with comments about his son
Apparently Carmelo Anthony is not a huge fan of Cooper Flagg
Guest: Frank Isola
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
What is up, everybody?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
It's me Jason MacIntyre in for Colin Cowherd on a
beautiful Monday morning out here on das Colin vacationing. Yes,
this week, nobody takes more vacations from the big Guy.
I'm joined today by Alex Hurry alec Oh.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We have a break show.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
It's the staff. We got find some great stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
We're gonna have a great week con and keep going
on vacations. We're hold down the floor.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
We're gonna have a great time.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We're doing our best. Hot was the weekend with a
phenomenal or excellent and.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Just the you joke.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
You know, I try to make the best day ever.
It's kind of my mindset in life. So yeah, we
did good, we did good to Oh yeahs I'm on the.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
June kids are finishing up school, you got the weather
warming up, I know you're gonna be going to the
beach a lot grateful for.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Well, yeah, we live at the beach, so it's like
that's you know, yeah, we're very We're spoiled. I don't
like bragging about it too much live on National TV
because we live and I mean I'm biased because I'm
born and raised here like one of the most beautiful
places in the country. But yeah, no, we're lucky.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah we are.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And you guys are lucky because we got a phenomenal
show today. Great guess I do have to start with
some bad news.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
And it involves my New York Knicks. I'm ride or
die for this team.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
My first game I ever went to as an NBA
fan was the Knicks, way back when I was a kid,
and their season came to a difficult end Saturday night
in Indy. Nicks kind of fell apart in the second half,
got a little frustrated Jalen Brunson delivering a head butt.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It did not end well, but it was a great season.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Knicks
had their best season this century. And of course there's
hand ringing from Knicks fans, what do we do?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Do we fire Dibbodeaux? Do we trade Karl Anthony Towns? Hey?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
J Mack, I got an idea we could move off
mckail bridges and get two role players.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
What do you think? What are the moves?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
And you know, listen, guys, I am reactionary. Sometimes I
try to be level headed. Saturday night, when the game ended,
I need to take a few deep breaths, and then
Sunday I get my thoughts cleared. And you know Colin
likes to call himself America's honesty broker. Well, I'm here
to tell you, as the commander in truth, that the
(02:40):
New York Knicks need to stand pat and not be reactionary.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Not overreact.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Let's not pander to blow hard New York radio hosts
or back pages screaming about change. Sometimes the move is
to do nothing. Obviously, you could take around the edges.
The Knicks bench have a bunch of guys whose contracts
are up, and we can make some moves. I'll talk
about him shortly, but overall, big picture, we don't need
(03:06):
to make any big moves.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And I will point to the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Okay, last year, the Indiana Pacers went up against the Knicks,
beat them in seven, go to the conference finals, and
they get swept by Boston. Of course, Indiana in the Midwest,
they're a little more chill. Hey, what moves can we make?
The Pacers did nothing, not one move among their top seven.
Kept the head coach Carlisle. They're in the NBA Finals.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Sometimes the move is to not make any big moves.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
So Jalen Brunson was asked after Game six, Hey, Jabdah
had a rough series. Is it time to move on?
Here's Jalen Brunson talking about his head coach.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
That's so like nobody takes more criticism than Tom and
this team obviously has turned around during his tenure. So
you kind of feel that going forward, he's the same
guy to fift you guys, the rest of the wise
at next level this is.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Is there a real question right now?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
The center?
Speaker 5 (04:01):
He just asked me if I believe that if he's
ever the right guy?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yes, thanks, guys, that's Fadny.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Brunston handled it well.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
You could say he handled that question better than he
handled the Indiana pressure in the series.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Brunson was good.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Obviously, I think he's leading the NBA in playoff scoring.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
He's had a great postseason.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I do think we need a little less Brunson next year,
maybe Leonard or Bensmore. I saw stat that the Knicks
starters this season average like ninety seven points per game,
which was the highest in the NBA in like forty
eight years. News flash, Tibadeau, you gotta make some more changes.
And I've been yelling from the rooftops, TIBs, you got
to put up or shut up. He beat Boston guys,
(04:43):
they took down the defending champs. But let's gloss over
that fact. I know Tatum got hurt, but the Knicks
we're in control of that series anyway at that point.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
So I'm actually here as the.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Commander in truth to tell you Nix, we're not going
after Giannis Nicks. We don't need Kevin Durant. I think
the pieces are in place for the Knicks to get
back to the conference finals.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And extend to the NBA Finals next year.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Let me remind you, Giannis is gonna be shipped from Milwaukee,
and there's a good chance he goes West, although there
is a team in the East we're gonna talk about
that's making a move on him currently.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
But like the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Do they scare you? Do the Pacers really terrify you?
They had a great series. But the Celtics the best
team in the East by far. They're gonna be without
Jason Tatum next year, do the Achilles? The East is
wide open. And oh, by the way, Knicks fans, I
know we're upset. Quick reminder, we were favored in the
series against the Pacers. And oh, by the way, Game one,
(05:41):
if the Knicks don't blow a fourteen point lead in
the final three minutes, what happens in that series? Do
things go in a different direction? Like the Knicks are close,
They're right there, And sometimes New York fans the best
move is to do nothing. So Commander and Troup, says
Knicks Stan pat noyon No, KD, We're good.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
All right.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Let's move to the NFL and a much disier topic
that is not very rosy, and that's the Cleveland Browns.
And I'm sure there's a segment of the NFL population
already sick of the Shadoor Sanders talk. I know for
a fact Kevin Stefanski is, because he's gonna be facing.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Questions about it.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
All week at OTA's folks, Dion Sanders is an unbelievable
football talent, and he looks like he's a pretty damn
good head coach too. As a kid growing up, I
remember Deon Sanders. He was unbelievable, okay, with the Falcons,
with the Niners, like just.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
A great career. The one thing I liked, which is
not serving him well now, is that he loved to
run his mouth.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I love trash talking. Yes, I play in men's basketball leagues.
Sometimes I run my mouth too much. I've dowbed it
back in my advanced age. Dion, you need to do
the same, my guy. So, Deon Sanders was on a
podcast this week, the Say What Needs to Be Said Podcast. Meanwhile,
we haven't heard from Dion about his song about the
Browns since the draft. Take a deep breath, folks, because
(07:08):
Dion's talking again.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 8 (07:11):
When you sit up there and say something like he
went in a meeting, I'm prepared, like dude, Shador Sanders,
who's had six different coordinators, Stop lying like you gotta understand.
My kids are built for everything. They want to create
these narratives and create these stories and then attach them
(07:32):
to a kid that ain't never done nothing wrong. You're
gonna tell me he had on headphone? Chadores, anybody know
my son? I understand he's a professional, Like he's gonna
go on to meet with headphones on, like yo, come home.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
It did hurt.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Not good, not good at all.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
This, my friends, is why Shador Sanders fell in the draft.
I thought it was probably fifty percent Dion fifty percent Shador.
I'm now thinking NFL teams front offices were just like
no thank you on Shador Standers precisely because of this.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Folks.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
It's the beginning of June and Dion is already complaining
about his son and what went down at the draft.
And you know there are teams that passed on Dion
this morning. That's why we didn't want him. Joe Shane
and Brian Dabole looking at their owner.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I told you we don't need this crap.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
And again, I'm not gonna challenge what Dion said. It
doesn't really matter. Did he wear headphones to a meeting
with a team.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
That seems like something weird to make up for a team.
But Dion's pushback is, oh, what do you wear?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Headphones to a meeting. Well, he either did or didn't.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
And oh, by the way, this whole uh he had
six offensive coordinators. That's not denying what went down at
the meeting, him being unprepared. And again, Shador has an
uphill climb in Cleveland. And I think a lot of
it has to do with exactly what.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Dion's saying on this podcast.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
So, Kevin Stefanski's gonna show up at OTA's this week
and he's not gonna get asked about. Hey, how's Miles
Garrett looking in the defense? What's up with Nick Chubb?
Have you made a decision? How about the wide receiver room?
You know, a lot of change there, Eddie quarterback update,
It's not gonna be any of that. It's gonna be
so Dion Sanders said this, and now you're getting questions
(09:19):
about your fourth string quarterback in June.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
And folks, it ain't gonna end here. This is gonna.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Continue anytime Dion steps in front of a microphone. Nobody
cares about the collar bottle or buffaloes. Right now, Travis
Hunter's in the NFL setor's gone. You know what they're
gonna ask Deon? Hey, you know Kenny Pickett through three
picks in a preseason gave Dion your thoughts, and Dion, who
has a history of talking, that's I mean, that's what
made him famous as wife prime Time. You think he's
(09:47):
gonna be able to stand down and pull back folks.
I thought of an analogy this morning.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And I'm like, wait a sec.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So Arch Manning at Texas was beat out in back
to back years by Quinn yours.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
And you could argue, hey, he was a young guy.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Okay, fine, but you know in Texas fans there are
a lot of them ready for Arch Manning and arch
Manning's parents and Peyton and Eli, all the Mannings.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
They've done a.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Ton of interviews, they're on red carpets all the time.
They could have easily said he should have been the
guy over Quinn. Well, you know, Quinn, you were struggling
against Georgia. Why didn't Artch get the start easily? Anybody
in the man in Klan could have popped up and
said something nothing. They stayed out of it. They powered
down and they let their kid figure it out. Hey,
Dion Shadere's now twenty three years old. I'm not telling
(10:35):
a grown man what to do, but it wouldn't be
the worst thing in the world. Dion if next time
you were asked about he Hey, man.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
I wish my son the best. I will be rooting
for him hard. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. Go Browns.
On to the next question. Just stop.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
All you're doing is hurting Shadur And oh, by the way,
do you remember Shadoor Sanders talked about this exact thing recently.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Here's a video.
Speaker 9 (11:00):
Ninety nine percent of hatred is you know, toys Pops
And I'm just you know, I'm just his son. So
it really just come from from that. And I told
him that, dude, just the older generation that do it
to me rather than the younger people, because when I
was come in person, I don't there's no negativity I see,
but it's all over online.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
You know. I got to kids and we're trying this
new thing.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
This woman, mel Robbins is a pretty smart lady with
some really good insights, and her phrase is let them
with your kids, Just let them. They're gonna have to
figure it out on their own. And it's very difficult,
you know. I got to a twelve or fourteen year
old and I'm trying to get them to bed like, Hey,
we got to set good habits and get to bed
(11:46):
early and wake up and do this.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And my wife said, hey, let them. They're gonna have
to figure it out on their own. Hey stayed up
till ten thirty.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Not a great idea when you got, you know, a
bunch of tests the next day and a lot of
homework and I shouldn't be on my iPad.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I should be doing that, and you gotta let them.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I think Dion Sanders needs to just stand down and
let shedure figure it out. It's gonna be difficult, but
he's twenty three, he's out of the house. I know
this is the first time in forever that you haven't
coached him, right, I think believe it's he's been coaching
him since, like youth leads and high school.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
He was a coordinator. Dion, you've got to stand back.
I mean, this is a prime example of why prime
is a problem.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I'm wishing him luck, and you know who I'm also
wishing luck to is Kevin Stefanski, who has a mighty
big hill to climb this week. All right, coming up
next year on the Herd. A former NBA star, he
did play for my Knicks is he taking a shot
at Cooper Flag. I couldn't tell based on the quote
(12:49):
whether or not he's taking a shot. I think it's
a bit out of bound. But we'll talk about that
next year on The Herd.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noonon Eastern Pacific.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Back here on the Herd.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I got frank is Sola coming up to talk about
my MIxS take and maybe he wants Thibodeau gunn.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
We'll see before we get to that, folks.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I got. I just I like Cooper Flag a lot.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Okay, I've been on this show championing Cooper Flag for
a while. I think several months ago when I hosted,
I said Cooper Flag would have over under one and
a half MVPs and Rick Buker was sitting in the
chair and he looked at me like I had four heads.
He's like, what, I'm irrationally high on Cooper Flag. Now
(13:41):
I was high on Wemban Yama.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
He looked great. No playoff appearances yet, it's early. Let's
take a deep breath.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
But the Cooper Flag one's interesting because there's a different
element to Wembin Yama.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yannis Joker, Luca Sga.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Cooper Flag's American and as we've just seen, companies in
America are betting on Cooper Flag. I saw a report
that he made twenty eight million dollars in nil money.
Now it's a little not fugazi. But he got a
deal with New Balance for like fifteen million, and another
deal with Fanatics for like fifteen or about those numbers.
(14:17):
But he signed them when he was a duke, right,
so he didn't get twenty eight million. He started to
make that kind of money in contracts while at duke.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Companies are betting on him.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Now obviously that's not the Nike bet on Lebron when
he went from high school.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
To the pros.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
But people believe in Cooper Flag. He will undoubtedly be
the number one pick in the draft. He's gonna go
to the Mavericks and we'll see how that pans out.
That being said, I believe Cooper Flag has Superstar written
all over him. Someone who doesn't quite believe that is
Carmelo Anthony. Now I don't want to get this wrong,
(14:52):
because Melo says a lot of nice things about Cooper Flag.
Kill him with the kindness, then hit him with that
Carmelo Anthony on Cooper Flag's prospects in the NBA.
Speaker 10 (15:05):
Cooper's nice. Cooper is a real deal Chiam l. We
haven't seen.
Speaker 11 (15:11):
In a while.
Speaker 10 (15:14):
Somebody dominate, like dominate every stop he went to. I'm
really high on his game. I'm very high on to me,
he doesn't do anything great like, he just do a
lot of very good. Now I'm a fan of him.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
I do.
Speaker 10 (15:31):
Now we all talk to him like as a pro
now yeah right, So yeah, that's college and everything else.
But now you step in intwo where this is every
single night. It's eighty two games every single night. You
gotta get a skill set. You can't be in the
pros and don't have a skill set. You have to
have something that you go to right now, he don't
have a go.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
To spoken like a true one dimensional player. Listen, I
loved Carlo Anthony. Guys, I'm gonna do what he just
did to Cooper Fly. So growing up as a young
guy in the Northeast, I would watch a lot of
Big East basketball and I became enamored with Syracuse.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
They had point guards. I fashioned myself as a point guard.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Carmelo Anthony goes to Syracuse takes them to the National Championship.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
It was great.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Carmelo goes to the NBA and he did one thing
great score. He didn't do anything else even very good.
He was not a very good passer, he was not
a very good rebounder. He was a average to mid
to below average defender. Like whatever Luca is as a defender,
that's like what Carmelo Anthony was. I made the mistake
(16:37):
once on another show with this network of Telling the Truth,
Commander in Truth about Carmelo Anthony, and I didn't realize it,
but another guy on the set was Kenyan Martin. Kenyan
Martin was teammates with Carmelo and they were boys, and
I kind of unloaded on Carmelo and saying this, he
can't do this, blah blah blah, and Kenya Martin had
like steam coming out of his ears, and I was like, oh,
(16:58):
I didn't really need to have your guy. But again,
I like Carmelo Anthony. I wanted the Knicks to trade
for him. He did one thing great and where'd that
get him? The Hall of Fame? Yeah, he got to
the Hall of Fame. And I mean, like, what did
he do? Did he win a chip, did he guid
his team anywhere? Did he make anyone else around him better?
Cooper Flag does all of those things. I don't like
(17:22):
when you hit somebody with the jack of all trades
but master of none.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
That's like kind of a negative.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
And there was some discussion in the morning meeting, was
this really Carmelo being negative or not? And to me,
it proceeds as a negative because everyone else thinks Cooper
Flag is freaking incredible. He's a lock number one pick.
Nobody even came close all season. Vegan, You've got new
balance and fanatics betting big on this guy being a star.
(17:49):
Do I need to remind you of the USA basketball
last summer when he was ill? Let me check my
notes seventeen and he went toe to toe with Anthony
Davis and Drew Holiday and all of them. And I
know they had just gotten off the beach. They weren't
one hundred percent locked in whatever he was seventeen. Cooper
Flag's eighteen. Now, guys, I mean I could read you
(18:10):
with his numbers. Forty oh sorry, fifty one percent on
two pointers, thirty eight percent on threes, eighty four percent
on free throws. I don't know, man, that's kind of
better than good at everything. He is a plus defender.
I do believe he's gonna be a championship foundational piece
in the league.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean, we saw.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Kevin Durant be a really one dimensional guy, unbelievable score,
good passer, good rebounder, but like he wasn't an amazing defender.
He had length and he could defend. And when he
was on the Warriors trying to buy Draymond and company, Yeah, awesome.
Cooper Flag is gonna go to Dallas and be the
perfect fit. I'll just go ahead and toss this out
(18:51):
there right now. Drew Holliday will be on the Mavericks
next season. That's my prediction. I think they'll move off
Gafford or Lively one one of the two likely Gaffes.
But Cooper Flyg is gonna get a lot of playing time.
Jason Kid's not gonna bury him on the bench. Is
he gonna have a Lebron type impact? Probably not, But
can he put up Webbin.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yama like numbers as a rookie.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, I mean he's probably not gonna block five shots
a game. But in Duke at Duke, we saw Cooper
Flag defend point guards Wings bigs. We saw Cooper Flag
bringing the ball up against pressure. He can do everything,
and he's really really good at everything. Is he gonna
average thirty a game? Probably not, but it does he
(19:33):
need to, can't you? We have a great career at
you know, Kevin Garnett was like a what.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Twenty four twelve?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
That was.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
That's the guy who I think is Cooper Fly is
gonna be in the NBA. He's gonna be Kevin Garnett,
a outstanding defender, a killer offensive player, makes his teammates
better and really can do everything. I want a jack
of all trades. I don't want a one dimensional guy.
So Cooper Flag, I'm a believer.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Carmelo. Hey, welcome to the media.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yeah, we'll see you all full on NBC in the NBA.
Let's go to Alex Curry with the news.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Turn on the news. This is the herd Line News.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
So jmck I'm with you with Cooper Flag. I had
a chance to sit down with him and interview him
after he won the wood An Award. And what you
don't see because you see how grid of a player
he is on the court, right, but he is a
great kid. He is focused all he wants to do
is play basketball. He's in love with the game. He
told me that his family and his agent had to
force him to take time off and rest after the
(20:32):
college season because all he wanted to do was keep
training and getting better. So I think whatever anyone thinks
the transition is going to be like to the NBA,
he's going to give it everything. He has to be
the best player that he can be. So he's going
to be exciting to watch. But let's start in the
NFL J mix. There has been less buzz around number
one overall pick cam Ward. Tennessee's a quarterback has been
(20:55):
flying under the radar, but his head coach, Brian Callahan
says he's been fitting in well.
Speaker 11 (21:01):
Cam understands those guys well, he understands how to interact
with him. He's played enough quarterback to understand how important
those guys are and what those relationships mean. And I
think he's done a good job so far.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
I mean, I'm not surprised he's not getting a lot
of buzz. Like, yes, he was the best quarterback in
the draft, but he wasn't the biggest story and he
wasn't the biggest brand. He's also going to a team
that has a lot of work to do. They were
the number one overall pick for a reason. They had
three wins laft season. They're over under said at five
and a half wins this season. So, I mean, it's
(21:36):
not an exciting sexy topic or brand talking about it.
So I just what are your expectations for Okay?
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Well, I think it's great that there's no massive pressure,
there's no media rush. That's tennessee him more. Yeah, like
he's going to be able to work kind.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Of quietly, get no expectations and then blow everybody away
with if you can. You never know. You never know
what a rookie quarterback is going to be.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Does he have a saying like what be legendary?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Does he?
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Do?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You have a Hall of famers just talking about him
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Sorry, should Oh that's what you're going to I was like,
what are you alluding to here?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Just it just feels like.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
He's set up more for success there without pressure, no
less pressure and expectations. So like if he doesn't do great,
he's not going to get torn apart for it. But
if he does well, it'll be like oh look, yeah, No,
that was the number one overall pick for a reason.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
He's not even in a battle like no, I know,
Callaghan said, like, well leves no loves, he's getting a
bunch of reps.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
No, absolutely not, like you had to pick this guy
to save your franchise and you have to start like
the whole the whole city's counting on him. So that'll
be interesting. But let's let's switch to the NBA. Bronnie
James made a ton of noise when he got drafted
and had a decent rookie year, bouncing up and down
from the G League and NBA. Report says that the
Lakers want Bronnie James to be a regular part of
(22:59):
the rotation in twenty twenty five, as Lebron enters his
twenty third year. So the Lakers have a lot of
work to do this offseason. I don't think adding Bronnie
James as a regular to the rotation is going to
fix a lot of the problems that they have, but
good for him if that ends up happening. The Lakers
(23:19):
need a big man, the Lakers need youth, The Lakers
need shooting, the Lakers need size. They're probably going to
have to part ways with Austin Reeves that they're going
to trade for someone they need Dalton Connect to start
playing like an NBA player. Again, I think that whole
trade situation kind of messed with him mentally a little,
which like that's not surprising for a young rookie player.
(23:43):
So they just is this a good move for the Lakers?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I like to like understand why this is coming out.
I mean, it is June. Why are we talking about
Ronnie in the rotation? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I wonder if the Lakers are already getting their ducks
set up. Hey, Gabe Vincent, thank you for your services.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
He ain't coming back though.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
What let me ask you this. You guys just watch
a piecers have a guy come off the bench. Yeah, scrappy,
not a great shooter, picked up full court, was like.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
An energy guy. TJ.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
McConnell, Yes, he's a veteran. Bronnie's only twenty. Can Bronnie
be along the lines of TJ McConnell for twelve minutes
a night for the Lake? Not?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Is that it's hard because Bronnie's situations when he was
playing with the Lakers were blowout games. They either up
a bunch or they were down a bunch, so he's
not playing. He hasn't gotten that experience in close on
the line games, and you can't really have that level
of play until you've been in that experience.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
I mean, if you give him, like, you know, five
minutes bridging the first and second quarters and then five
minutes in the I.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Mean, anything's keep guys. His dad's Lebron James. He's training
with the greatest player in our game right now, So
there's definitely potential there.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, nobody had him to shoot ten times a game.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
No, there's there's potential. And when you have Lebron your
dad and that's who you're working with and training with
every single day, anything is possible. We also have to remember,
like he's still like not that far removed from having
his cardiac problem, like, so he's still building back up
to his full potential. Like good for him, Like I
(25:16):
hope he makes it into the regular rotation because I
want young players to succeed, and he has had the
world against him again like a share situation, having your
dad being Lebron James, Like it's you've come into this
in a lose lose situation no matter what. So yeah,
I mean, good for him. I hope he gets playing time,
but I don't think that's going to solve the Lakers'
(25:37):
needs and issues for what they need next season.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
One of the things their bench was just non existent,
well at all that Dallas series.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So I'm sorry Minnesota series.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
So is there a world where watching the Thunder play
eleven guys, yeah, and watching the Pacers play ten eleven guys.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah, say hey, we're gonna have to play more dudes.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
We can't have they.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Have to move the logging thirty eight minutes ago. It's
just not sustainable.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It's not.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
But I think are going to, like you learn, like
this was jd Reddick's first full season as a head coach,
this was his first playoff experience as a head coach.
Like that's kind of what he got ripped for was
the playing time that he had his stars.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
On the court.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
He's gonna be the first guy off the bench, but
maybe if he's your fourth guy off the bench, and
you know what, we're playing guys to keep.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Luka and lebronst for the player.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Yeah, and he's he's gonna give it all his all,
and you know he will, And like I said, he's
training with the best his dad. Okay, on side to
the East Jannis sweepstakes is starting to heat up. According
to Toronto Star writer Doug Smith. Giannis reportedly has let
it be known that he wants to stay in the
East and Toronto would be an acceptable destination, adding the
wild card is the cost. But I also think the
(26:43):
Raptors are uniquely placed to make an attractive offer that
won't ruin their franchise or roster. But Jaymack, at this point,
it's all speculation, right, He's definitely going to be the
off season watch. But Jannis will go where the Bucks
get the best package for him. Now, I don't think
they're going to do him dirt. I think they're gonna
make sure that he's in a good spot, but they're
(27:03):
also gonna get as much in return that they can
for you honest, And he's obviously gonna be the first
domino effect that falls, because wherever he ends up going,
then you'll have kd Land somewhere, and then the other
big name free agents and trades happened later on in
the off season.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Where do you think he's show?
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Like, Okay, so I'm looking at the Raptors. Holy hell,
this is a terrible roster and they're paying a lot
of guys a lot of money. Yeah, But for some reason, Alex,
the NBA loves Scottie Barnes. He's one of these guys
who can master of jack of all trades, master of Nune. Yeah,
he just signed after his rookie deals, next deal, but
the NBA loves him. Would Milwaukee want him in a
(27:42):
package as a centerpiece? Scotty Barnes, who's like a the
young guy. He's like a poor man's Cooper Flag. Sorry
Scotty Barnes Troopers. But like Brandon Ingram.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Now, I don't think he's gonna end up in Toronto.
I think they're gonna they'll ultimately get out bid. Maybe
someone else's gonna.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Got Kawhi Leonard and they got that championship over the
Warriors in twenty nineteen, So I.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Wouldn't put it past him to make a big swing.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
I mean, the Raptors have been totally irrelevant since they
lost that uh or should they won the championship.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
It's just I see him going to a bigger market.
I see Yannis going to a figure.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I'll give Toronto props. That's a yeah city. Yeah, I'm
sure you've been there.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
It's actually the one city in Canada that I was
never on that road trip because I covered hockey, so
I've been to almost all the big cities, but that's
one once. I didn't go to Anna.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I Love the Angels. Did might go to play Toronto.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
To the Kings O King Yeah, when I was doing
the King.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
It's a nice city, very cultural. Yeah, it's fun. It
does get cold, but I don't know if Jannis cares
Milwaukee is cold as well.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
I just don't think he's gonna end up there. So
we'll be in there, will be in the conversation like
up until the very end, and probably be a finalist.
But ultimately I think they get up.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, like if you trade away Scuddy Barnes, who are
you going there to play with? Yaka Pertle and Manual
quickly No no, Yeah, interesting name for sure, And I
think we'll see a lot of these pop up Orlando's in.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
The next you know.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah, but will he end up watch officially on his
watch Alex Burr, Well.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's the news and thanks for stopping by. The herd
Line news.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
All right, Coming on next Frank Isola drops by.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
He's gonna talk Nix and the future of Thibodeau, the
future of cat all that with the Knicks coming up next.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern nan am Pacific.
Speaker 7 (29:41):
Hey Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We are a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(30:02):
sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something, right. So
check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
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(30:23):
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Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Welcome back, great guests coming up right now. He's covered
the Knicks for a long time, a fixture in New
York media. Frank Issola currently with Sirius XM NBA Radio. Frank,
thanks a lot for taking the time this morning. I
know you're a busy man. Everybody wants to talk NX.
I'm curious your macro thoughts watching that series as they
(31:00):
blow game one and then ultimately lose the series and six.
Speaker 12 (31:03):
Well, I think you said it. Blowing game one was
the big difference there, because if you look at what
the Knicks did to Boston winning game one and two,
Boston should have won Game two. They lose that, they're
chasing the series. Cleveland should have won Game two at
home against Indiana. They're chasing the series. The Knicks losing
game one, and it wasn't just being up fourteen with
two fifty eight to go, or you're up nine points
(31:23):
with fifty eight seconds ago, and the Nicks scored four
more points. So that had to be a thirteen to
four run by Indiana just to tie the game up.
Look at that Haliburton shot, so a little bit of
luck factors in so a game that the Knicks should
have won. To me, that set the tone for the
entire series. The Knicks were chasing the series, they never
caught up to Indiana, and that that was the killer
game right there, That's the one they never recovered from.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
So just to be clear, you know, this is the
greatest season they've had this century, right, long playoff run.
But Knicks fans were expecting, Hey, we're favored in the series.
How are we not in the finals? And now it's
let's do the autopsy. Do we fire Thibodeau, do we
trade ca? What do we do with Bridges and his
new deal?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Lots on the table. It's gonna be a busy summer
in New York. Frank, Let's start with this.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
If you're giving advice to Dolan in company, what do
you say about Gianni's Do you try to make a
move and get in the mix or stand.
Speaker 12 (32:14):
Pat Oh, one hundred percent, I'm trying to make that move.
I think the Knicks window is right now. Over the
next two to three years, and you haven't won a
title since seventy three. If a player like that is available,
you certainly go for it. I don't know if the
Knicks can get it done. If I'm Milwaukee and I'm
making that big step to trade a guy like Janis
and Tetekunpo, I'm thinking about rebuilding. I'm looking to get
(32:34):
a lot of picks back, maybe a young player. I
still think that Houston is the ideal team for Milwaukee.
I think it would be the ideal team for Jannis
as well, But certainly the Knicks should go for it.
Hope that maybe Jannis could Findeglo's way there. Jason, you
know this the story of Queen's got the huge Greek population.
Jannis knows that as well, so there is a bit
of a tie there. But I don't know. I think
(32:55):
that'll be hard to pull off. But I'm certainly exploring
that if I'm the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Yeah, I can't imagine the Bucks to build around Karl
Anthony towns. By the way, let's talk for a few
moments about Cat A bit of a space Cadet defensively
commits some really goofy fouls. Seems to get the ball.
You remember how Julius Randall was a black hole. This
is like a different version of it because he can
actually shoot threes with some reliability.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I don't really know what to make a cat.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
He has flashes of that's the NBA player I know,
and then it's like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
He makes some really poor decisions.
Speaker 12 (33:27):
He certainly does. Is the reason why he was available
for the Knicks to acquire him. And it's not breaking
news that he struggles defensively. Everyone knew that before the
Knicks acquired him. I do think the fallout from them
losing this series, losing Game six, I think there's been
far too much criticism on Carl It was the only
starter that was a plus. Like the plus minus, he
was a plus. He was a plus all throughout the playoffs.
So yeah, defensively he struggles. But he also had a
(33:49):
Game three with the nixt season on the line where
he scored twenty points in the fourth quarter. He had
a couple of really big moments against Detroit. He had
some big moments against Boston in Games one and two
where he kind of bailed them out. I think the
big issue for the Knicks and I think Carl. You
know my morning radio partner, Brian Scalabrity talks about all
the time, and he played for Tom Tibodau in Chicago.
(34:11):
He feels like when guys are under Tom that second year,
he thinks it will help Bridges. He thinks it'll help Towns,
much like it helped Ojiannanobi, like it helped out Randall,
like it helped Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson was an MVP
candidate a few years into coming to the Knicks and
playing for Tom Thibodau. But the biggest issue, Jason, and
you know this, can you win when your two best
(34:32):
players are not great two way players? And that's gonna
be the biggest issue. Jalen Bruns and Karl Anthony Towns
both terrific offensively, struggled defensively, and that's an issue.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Do you think there's a role where the Knicks are
a bench or two player away, you know, they go
out and get like Nikhil Alexander Walker, Maybe start him
for Josh Hart, you go try to plot probably Al Horford,
like a veteran who can actually make shots like Mitchell
Robinson at times is unplayable because of the free throws.
But like Al Horford can play defense and make threes
and you're not asking heavy minutes. Are they just a
(35:04):
couple pieces away? Because remember not Tatum next year in Boston.
Speaker 12 (35:08):
Yeah, you know, one hundred percent right, And if you know,
going into the season, a lot of as Southern ow
I did that Boston was a clear favorite. They'll repeat
as Eastern Conference champions, probably repeat as NBA champions. Now
you look at the East, it's completely wide open, and
I think you're right. I think there is something to
be said. You know, Indiana got eliminated in four games
in the Eastern Conference finals. They kept that court together,
(35:30):
as you all saying goes, you know, you let the
kate bake a little bit. You know, why not try
to run it back if you're the Knicks, And maybe,
like you said, I think you're you're right with your thinking.
Trying to add a guy that can shoot coming off
the bench, you know they're shooting isn't great and adding
that kind of player will really open up the offense.
But again, they're going to have to address issues on
the defensive end and hope that they could figure something out,
(35:52):
because for me, that was the biggest issue they had
against Indiana going up and down the court, and the
Knicks really couldn't play for long stretches. Jalen Brunson and
Carling Anton the Towns. It's an issue when you can't
play your two best players a lot because both struggle
so much defensively.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
So let me ask you about this, Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Several months back, Becky Hammond made a statement, you can't
win with Jalen Brunson as your number one player. I
thought it was ludicrous. I said some stuff that was
kind of harsh. Listen, Jalen Brunson's an unbelievable player, man.
I think he's fourth in the league in playoffs.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Scoring this year.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
The Knicks are not anywhere near the Eastern Conference finals
without him. But like you said, the defensive question, Now,
listen that stuff dog Steph Curry early in his career too,
and they had to go out and get Igo Dala
and then Kevin Durant kind of a cheat code. But
is that the one argument for moving off Towns? Hey,
we need another defender. Og and Bridges are good, but
you kind of need another defender to help out Brunson, right.
Speaker 12 (36:48):
Hey, And that's the thing if you look at Carl
he's an unbelievable offensive player, but defensively struggles. And I
understand what Becky Hammond was trying to say, but you know,
Isaiah Thomas was an undersize, yeah guard, he won a
championship as what is he like? Six foot two? Now
that's an all time great player. But Brunson has been
outstanding the last couple of years with the Knicks, and
you know it from watching it. You see him on
(37:10):
the court in the fourth quarter as all the confidence
in the world that he's going to make the right play.
I think if you go back to Game one, I
thought he gave up the ball a little early with
what fourteen seconds left in regulation. The Carl's Jalen's got
to hold onto the ball, get fouled and he needs
to go to the free throw line and knock down
those two free throws. But again to your point, it's
something that the Knicks have to figure out if they want,
(37:31):
you know, let's you know, they finished four with a
six win shy of winning a title. Right they had
ten wins, they still needed to win six. It's hard
to win sixteen playoff games. And right now it was
proven that this team simply wasn't good enough. I still
think there were moves that they could make. I still
think Jalen Brunson could be that player. Look everywhere he's been,
every level, high school, college, in the NBA, He's won big.
(37:53):
He hasn't won the Ultimate Prize yet in the NBA,
but he took the Knicks to a place that hadn't
been in twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
So Vin Durant has been a fascination of the Knicks
for probably at least a decade. Let's just say I
don't think it could happen, But let's say, Karl Anthony
Town straight up for Durant, do you do that deal?
Speaker 12 (38:11):
You know what, I would think long and hard about it,
just because I know I can trust Durant in the playoffs,
especially offensively, even defensively. He's going to give you something.
And again, I'm looking at that window for the next
I really do think it's about a two to three
year window with a lot of these guys, and when
you haven't won a championship seventy three, hadn't been to
(38:32):
the vinal since nine. And that's why I mean, I
thought they gave up too much to get Bridges. But
I understood swinging for the fences because it's been that
long since you've done anything. And I think with Kevin
Durant out there, and I think Kevin Durant will be rejuvenated.
When a guy like of that status hasn't appeared in
a postseason game this season, He's going to be hungry
to get back there. And I think Kevin Durant would
(38:53):
come in with the right attitude. I think he would
like the series of the Knicks program, you know, Tom Thibodeau,
Jalen Brunson. I think he fit perfectly. Is it a
gamble one hundred percent because of his age and the
injury factors, but it's something that I certainly would consider.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, the age is a question. You mentioned window.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
So Durant turns thirty seven in September, and if you
look at his last few seasons, he's been injured a lot.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Do you think that he would shrink the next window
to maybe just one season's.
Speaker 12 (39:20):
That's certainly a possibility. But you know this, Jason, You
know this about Kevin Durant. He loves to play basketball.
I take away the Twitter stuff that he does. He
loves to play basketball. He loves to compete, so you
know that he's going to do everything that he can
to get himself ready to play the basketball part. I
had heard at the Olympics a lot of these coaches
that weren't around him that much, they were blown away
(39:43):
by how much he puts into it every single day.
So you know, you're getting the guy with the right
kind of mindset. And I think if he came, I
think he'd be able to handle the pressure. I know
he gets sensitive to it at times, but I would
think after what happened in Phoenix this year, with that
team not making the playoffs, I think he would be
June to come to the.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Next interesting All right, onto the finals real quick.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Actually, first of all Eastern Conference Finals MVP voting. You know,
we didn't do the subject yet, but we might. Siakam
won five to four over Haliburton. First of all, do
you think this award is dumb because it's just the series,
not all of the playoffs, and they shouldn't have been Haliburton.
Speaker 12 (40:22):
Well, I don't have a problem with them giving out awards.
Everyone gets awards, you know, that's like our new thing now.
Speaker 7 (40:28):
But I agree with you.
Speaker 12 (40:30):
If I had a vote, and that takes nothing away
from Pascal Siakam, but to me, everything is different. Like
Haliburton shot in game one is not just one shot
that wins one game. That was a massive shot that
tied it up and they go on to win that game.
So when the biggest moment he delivered. Then in game four,
after they had blown the twenty point lead in game
(40:51):
three and he didn't play well, he put up historic numbers.
The numbers that he put up in that game with
no turnovers was something that no player had ever done
in any NBA game. Well, those two games right there,
and the fact that he played well in the second
half of Again, no problem with Siakam. I didn't have
a vote because I wasn't there in Indiana. I know
some of our brethren in the media, people that you know,
and I've already given them a hard time about it.
(41:12):
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I would have voted for
tybris Alibert.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
All right, fifteen seconds, who you got in the finals,
OKAC or Indiana and how many games?
Speaker 12 (41:21):
You know what, It's hard to pick against OKAC. There's
such a good team defensively. I look at Indiana. It'd
be great for that city and for that franchise been
in the NBA a long time, a performer ABA team
to get the banner. But I don't know. Oklahoma City
winning that game for Jason in Denver, they were down
to one in the series, they were down entering the
fourth quarter. Them winning that game for I think that's
(41:42):
the game they're going to look back on and say
that's the game that changing.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Loue George Special. All right, Frank guy Sola serious except
great stuff. Man, Thanks a lot. We'll follow you all offseason.
Back here next hour.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
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dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
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What is up, everybody?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
It's me Jason MacIntyre in for Colin Cowherd on a
beautiful Monday morning out here on das Colin vacationing. Yes,
this week, nobody takes more vacations from the big Guy.
I'm joined today by Alex Hurry alec Oh.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We have a break show.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
It's the staff. We got find some great stuff.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
We're gonna have a great week con and keep going
on vacations. We're hold down the floor.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
We're gonna have a great time.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We're doing our best. Hot was the weekend with a
phenomenal or excellent and.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Just the you joke.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
You know, I try to make the best day ever.
It's kind of my mindset in life. So yeah, we
did good, we did good to Oh yeahs I'm on the.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
June kids are finishing up school, you got the weather
warming up, I know you're gonna be going to the
beach a lot grateful for.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
Well, yeah, we live at the beach, so it's like
that's you know, yeah, we're very We're spoiled. I don't
like bragging about it too much live on National TV
because we live and I mean I'm biased because I'm
born and raised here like one of the most beautiful
places in the country. But yeah, no, we're lucky.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah we are.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And you guys are lucky because we got a phenomenal
show today. Great guess I do have to start with
some bad news.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
And it involves my New York Knicks. I'm ride or
die for this team.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
My first game I ever went to as an NBA
fan was the Knicks, way back when I was a kid,
and their season came to a difficult end Saturday night
in Indy. Nicks kind of fell apart in the second half,
got a little frustrated Jalen Brunson delivering a head butt.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It did not end well, but it was a great season.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Knicks
had their best season this century. And of course there's
hand ringing from Knicks fans, what do we do?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Do we fire Dibbodeaux? Do we trade Karl Anthony Towns? Hey?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
J Mack, I got an idea we could move off
mckail bridges and get two role players.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
What do you think? What are the moves?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
And you know, listen, guys, I am reactionary. Sometimes I
try to be level headed. Saturday night, when the game ended,
I need to take a few deep breaths, and then
Sunday I get my thoughts cleared. And you know Colin
likes to call himself America's honesty broker. Well, I'm here
to tell you, as the commander in truth, that the
(02:40):
New York Knicks need to stand pat and not be reactionary.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Not overreact.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Let's not pander to blow hard New York radio hosts
or back pages screaming about change. Sometimes the move is
to do nothing. Obviously, you could take around the edges.
The Knicks bench have a bunch of guys whose contracts
are up, and we can make some moves. I'll talk
about him shortly, but overall, big picture, we don't need
(03:06):
to make any big moves.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And I will point to the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Okay, last year, the Indiana Pacers went up against the Knicks,
beat them in seven, go to the conference finals, and
they get swept by Boston. Of course, Indiana in the Midwest,
they're a little more chill. Hey, what moves can we make?
The Pacers did nothing, not one move among their top seven.
Kept the head coach Carlisle. They're in the NBA Finals.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Sometimes the move is to not make any big moves.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
So Jalen Brunson was asked after Game six, Hey, Jabdah
had a rough series. Is it time to move on?
Here's Jalen Brunson talking about his head coach.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
That's so like nobody takes more criticism than Tom and
this team obviously has turned around during his tenure. So
you kind of feel that going forward, he's the same
guy to fift you guys, the rest of the wise
at next level this is.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Is there a real question right now?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
The center?
Speaker 5 (04:01):
He just asked me if I believe that if he's
ever the right guy?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yes, thanks, guys, that's Fadny.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Brunston handled it well.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
You could say he handled that question better than he
handled the Indiana pressure in the series.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Brunson was good.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Obviously, I think he's leading the NBA in playoff scoring.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
He's had a great postseason.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I do think we need a little less Brunson next year,
maybe Leonard or Bensmore. I saw stat that the Knicks
starters this season average like ninety seven points per game,
which was the highest in the NBA in like forty
eight years. News flash, Tibadeau, you gotta make some more changes.
And I've been yelling from the rooftops, TIBs, you got
to put up or shut up. He beat Boston guys,
(04:43):
they took down the defending champs. But let's gloss over
that fact. I know Tatum got hurt, but the Knicks
we're in control of that series anyway at that point.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
So I'm actually here as the.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Commander in truth to tell you Nix, we're not going
after Giannis Nicks. We don't need Kevin Durant. I think
the pieces are in place for the Knicks to get
back to the conference finals.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And extend to the NBA Finals next year.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Let me remind you, Giannis is gonna be shipped from Milwaukee,
and there's a good chance he goes West, although there
is a team in the East we're gonna talk about
that's making a move on him currently.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
But like the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Do they scare you? Do the Pacers really terrify you?
They had a great series. But the Celtics the best
team in the East by far. They're gonna be without
Jason Tatum next year, do the Achilles? The East is
wide open. And oh, by the way, Knicks fans, I
know we're upset. Quick reminder, we were favored in the
series against the Pacers. And oh, by the way, Game one,
(05:41):
if the Knicks don't blow a fourteen point lead in
the final three minutes, what happens in that series? Do
things go in a different direction? Like the Knicks are close,
They're right there, And sometimes New York fans the best
move is to do nothing. So Commander and Troup, says
Knicks Stan pat noyon No, KD, We're good.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
All right.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Let's move to the NFL and a much disier topic
that is not very rosy, and that's the Cleveland Browns.
And I'm sure there's a segment of the NFL population
already sick of the Shadoor Sanders talk. I know for
a fact Kevin Stefanski is, because he's gonna be facing.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Questions about it.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
All week at OTA's folks, Dion Sanders is an unbelievable
football talent, and he looks like he's a pretty damn
good head coach too. As a kid growing up, I
remember Deon Sanders. He was unbelievable, okay, with the Falcons,
with the Niners, like just.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
A great career. The one thing I liked, which is
not serving him well now, is that he loved to
run his mouth.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
I love trash talking. Yes, I play in men's basketball leagues.
Sometimes I run my mouth too much. I've dowbed it
back in my advanced age. Dion, you need to do
the same, my guy. So, Deon Sanders was on a
podcast this week, the Say What Needs to Be Said Podcast. Meanwhile,
we haven't heard from Dion about his song about the
Browns since the draft. Take a deep breath, folks, because
(07:08):
Dion's talking again.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 8 (07:11):
When you sit up there and say something like he
went in a meeting, I'm prepared, like dude, Shador Sanders,
who's had six different coordinators, Stop lying like you gotta understand.
My kids are built for everything. They want to create
these narratives and create these stories and then attach them
(07:32):
to a kid that ain't never done nothing wrong. You're
gonna tell me he had on headphone? Chadores, anybody know
my son? I understand he's a professional, Like he's gonna
go on to meet with headphones on, like yo, come home.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
It did hurt.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Not good, not good at all.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
This, my friends, is why Shador Sanders fell in the draft.
I thought it was probably fifty percent Dion fifty percent Shador.
I'm now thinking NFL teams front offices were just like
no thank you on Shador Standers precisely because of this.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Folks.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
It's the beginning of June and Dion is already complaining
about his son and what went down at the draft.
And you know there are teams that passed on Dion
this morning. That's why we didn't want him. Joe Shane
and Brian Dabole looking at their owner.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I told you we don't need this crap.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
And again, I'm not gonna challenge what Dion said. It
doesn't really matter. Did he wear headphones to a meeting
with a team.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
That seems like something weird to make up for a team.
But Dion's pushback is, oh, what do you wear?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Headphones to a meeting. Well, he either did or didn't.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
And oh, by the way, this whole uh he had
six offensive coordinators. That's not denying what went down at
the meeting, him being unprepared. And again, Shador has an
uphill climb in Cleveland. And I think a lot of
it has to do with exactly what.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Dion's saying on this podcast.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
So, Kevin Stefanski's gonna show up at OTA's this week
and he's not gonna get asked about. Hey, how's Miles
Garrett looking in the defense? What's up with Nick Chubb?
Have you made a decision? How about the wide receiver room?
You know, a lot of change there, Eddie quarterback update,
It's not gonna be any of that. It's gonna be
so Dion Sanders said this, and now you're getting questions
(09:19):
about your fourth string quarterback in June.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
And folks, it ain't gonna end here. This is gonna.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Continue anytime Dion steps in front of a microphone. Nobody
cares about the collar bottle or buffaloes. Right now, Travis
Hunter's in the NFL setor's gone. You know what they're
gonna ask Deon? Hey, you know Kenny Pickett through three
picks in a preseason gave Dion your thoughts, and Dion, who
has a history of talking, that's I mean, that's what
made him famous as wife prime Time. You think he's
(09:47):
gonna be able to stand down and pull back folks.
I thought of an analogy this morning.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And I'm like, wait a sec.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So Arch Manning at Texas was beat out in back
to back years by Quinn yours.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
And you could argue, hey, he was a young guy.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Okay, fine, but you know in Texas fans there are
a lot of them ready for Arch Manning and arch
Manning's parents and Peyton and Eli, all the Mannings.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
They've done a.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Ton of interviews, they're on red carpets all the time.
They could have easily said he should have been the
guy over Quinn. Well, you know, Quinn, you were struggling
against Georgia. Why didn't Artch get the start easily? Anybody
in the man in Klan could have popped up and
said something nothing. They stayed out of it. They powered
down and they let their kid figure it out. Hey,
Dion Shadere's now twenty three years old. I'm not telling
(10:35):
a grown man what to do, but it wouldn't be
the worst thing in the world. Dion if next time
you were asked about he Hey, man.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
I wish my son the best. I will be rooting
for him hard. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. Go Browns.
On to the next question. Just stop.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
All you're doing is hurting Shadur And oh, by the way,
do you remember Shadoor Sanders talked about this exact thing recently.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Here's a video.
Speaker 9 (11:00):
Ninety nine percent of hatred is you know, toys Pops
And I'm just you know, I'm just his son. So
it really just come from from that. And I told
him that, dude, just the older generation that do it
to me rather than the younger people, because when I
was come in person, I don't there's no negativity I see,
but it's all over online.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
You know. I got to kids and we're trying this
new thing.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
This woman, mel Robbins is a pretty smart lady with
some really good insights, and her phrase is let them
with your kids, Just let them. They're gonna have to
figure it out on their own. And it's very difficult,
you know. I got to a twelve or fourteen year
old and I'm trying to get them to bed like, Hey,
we got to set good habits and get to bed
(11:46):
early and wake up and do this.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And my wife said, hey, let them. They're gonna have
to figure it out on their own. Hey stayed up
till ten thirty.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Not a great idea when you got, you know, a
bunch of tests the next day and a lot of
homework and I shouldn't be on my iPad.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I should be doing that, and you gotta let them.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I think Dion Sanders needs to just stand down and
let shedure figure it out. It's gonna be difficult, but
he's twenty three, he's out of the house. I know
this is the first time in forever that you haven't
coached him, right, I think believe it's he's been coaching
him since, like youth leads and high school.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
He was a coordinator. Dion, you've got to stand back.
I mean, this is a prime example of why prime
is a problem.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I'm wishing him luck, and you know who I'm also
wishing luck to is Kevin Stefanski, who has a mighty
big hill to climb this week. All right, coming up
next year on the Herd. A former NBA star, he
did play for my Knicks is he taking a shot
at Cooper Flag. I couldn't tell based on the quote
(12:49):
whether or not he's taking a shot. I think it's
a bit out of bound. But we'll talk about that
next year on The Herd.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noonon Eastern Pacific.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Back here on the Herd.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I got frank is Sola coming up to talk about
my MIxS take and maybe he wants Thibodeau gunn.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
We'll see before we get to that, folks.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I got. I just I like Cooper Flag a lot.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Okay, I've been on this show championing Cooper Flag for
a while. I think several months ago when I hosted,
I said Cooper Flag would have over under one and
a half MVPs and Rick Buker was sitting in the
chair and he looked at me like I had four heads.
He's like, what, I'm irrationally high on Cooper Flag. Now
(13:41):
I was high on Wemban Yama.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
He looked great. No playoff appearances yet, it's early. Let's
take a deep breath.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
But the Cooper Flag one's interesting because there's a different
element to Wembin Yama.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yannis Joker, Luca Sga.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Cooper Flag's American and as we've just seen, companies in
America are betting on Cooper Flag. I saw a report
that he made twenty eight million dollars in nil money.
Now it's a little not fugazi. But he got a
deal with New Balance for like fifteen million, and another
deal with Fanatics for like fifteen or about those numbers.
(14:17):
But he signed them when he was a duke, right,
so he didn't get twenty eight million. He started to
make that kind of money in contracts while at duke.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Companies are betting on him.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Now obviously that's not the Nike bet on Lebron when
he went from high school.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
To the pros.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
But people believe in Cooper Flag. He will undoubtedly be
the number one pick in the draft. He's gonna go
to the Mavericks and we'll see how that pans out.
That being said, I believe Cooper Flag has Superstar written
all over him. Someone who doesn't quite believe that is
Carmelo Anthony. Now I don't want to get this wrong,
(14:52):
because Melo says a lot of nice things about Cooper Flag.
Kill him with the kindness, then hit him with that
Carmelo Anthony on Cooper Flag's prospects in the NBA.
Speaker 10 (15:05):
Cooper's nice. Cooper is a real deal Chiam l. We
haven't seen.
Speaker 11 (15:11):
In a while.
Speaker 10 (15:14):
Somebody dominate, like dominate every stop he went to. I'm
really high on his game. I'm very high on to me,
he doesn't do anything great like, he just do a
lot of very good. Now I'm a fan of him.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
I do.
Speaker 10 (15:31):
Now we all talk to him like as a pro
now yeah right, So yeah, that's college and everything else.
But now you step in intwo where this is every
single night. It's eighty two games every single night. You
gotta get a skill set. You can't be in the
pros and don't have a skill set. You have to
have something that you go to right now, he don't
have a go.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
To spoken like a true one dimensional player. Listen, I
loved Carlo Anthony. Guys, I'm gonna do what he just
did to Cooper Fly. So growing up as a young
guy in the Northeast, I would watch a lot of
Big East basketball and I became enamored with Syracuse.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
They had point guards. I fashioned myself as a point guard.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Carmelo Anthony goes to Syracuse takes them to the National Championship.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
It was great.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Carmelo goes to the NBA and he did one thing
great score. He didn't do anything else even very good.
He was not a very good passer, he was not
a very good rebounder. He was a average to mid
to below average defender. Like whatever Luca is as a defender,
that's like what Carmelo Anthony was. I made the mistake
(16:37):
once on another show with this network of Telling the Truth,
Commander in Truth about Carmelo Anthony, and I didn't realize it,
but another guy on the set was Kenyan Martin. Kenyan
Martin was teammates with Carmelo and they were boys, and
I kind of unloaded on Carmelo and saying this, he
can't do this, blah blah blah, and Kenya Martin had
like steam coming out of his ears, and I was like, oh,
(16:58):
I didn't really need to have your guy. But again,
I like Carmelo Anthony. I wanted the Knicks to trade
for him. He did one thing great and where'd that
get him? The Hall of Fame? Yeah, he got to
the Hall of Fame. And I mean, like, what did
he do? Did he win a chip, did he guid
his team anywhere? Did he make anyone else around him better?
Cooper Flag does all of those things. I don't like
(17:22):
when you hit somebody with the jack of all trades
but master of none.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
That's like kind of a negative.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
And there was some discussion in the morning meeting, was
this really Carmelo being negative or not? And to me,
it proceeds as a negative because everyone else thinks Cooper
Flag is freaking incredible. He's a lock number one pick.
Nobody even came close all season. Vegan, You've got new
balance and fanatics betting big on this guy being a star.
(17:49):
Do I need to remind you of the USA basketball
last summer when he was ill? Let me check my
notes seventeen and he went toe to toe with Anthony
Davis and Drew Holiday and all of them. And I
know they had just gotten off the beach. They weren't
one hundred percent locked in whatever he was seventeen. Cooper
Flag's eighteen. Now, guys, I mean I could read you
(18:10):
with his numbers. Forty oh sorry, fifty one percent on
two pointers, thirty eight percent on threes, eighty four percent
on free throws. I don't know, man, that's kind of
better than good at everything. He is a plus defender.
I do believe he's gonna be a championship foundational piece
in the league.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean, we saw.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Kevin Durant be a really one dimensional guy, unbelievable score,
good passer, good rebounder, but like he wasn't an amazing defender.
He had length and he could defend. And when he
was on the Warriors trying to buy Draymond and company, Yeah, awesome.
Cooper Flag is gonna go to Dallas and be the
perfect fit. I'll just go ahead and toss this out
(18:51):
there right now. Drew Holliday will be on the Mavericks
next season. That's my prediction. I think they'll move off
Gafford or Lively one one of the two likely Gaffes.
But Cooper Flyg is gonna get a lot of playing time.
Jason Kid's not gonna bury him on the bench. Is
he gonna have a Lebron type impact? Probably not, But
can he put up Webbin.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yama like numbers as a rookie.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, I mean he's probably not gonna block five shots
a game. But in Duke at Duke, we saw Cooper
Flag defend point guards Wings bigs. We saw Cooper Flag
bringing the ball up against pressure. He can do everything,
and he's really really good at everything. Is he gonna
average thirty a game? Probably not, but it does he
(19:33):
need to, can't you? We have a great career at
you know, Kevin Garnett was like a what.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Twenty four twelve?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
That was.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
That's the guy who I think is Cooper Fly is
gonna be in the NBA. He's gonna be Kevin Garnett,
a outstanding defender, a killer offensive player, makes his teammates
better and really can do everything. I want a jack
of all trades. I don't want a one dimensional guy.
So Cooper Flag, I'm a believer.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Carmelo. Hey, welcome to the media.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yeah, we'll see you all full on NBC in the NBA.
Let's go to Alex Curry with the news.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Turn on the news. This is the herd Line News.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
So jmck I'm with you with Cooper Flag. I had
a chance to sit down with him and interview him
after he won the wood An Award. And what you
don't see because you see how grid of a player
he is on the court, right, but he is a
great kid. He is focused all he wants to do
is play basketball. He's in love with the game. He
told me that his family and his agent had to
force him to take time off and rest after the
(20:32):
college season because all he wanted to do was keep
training and getting better. So I think whatever anyone thinks
the transition is going to be like to the NBA,
he's going to give it everything. He has to be
the best player that he can be. So he's going
to be exciting to watch. But let's start in the
NFL J mix. There has been less buzz around number
one overall pick cam Ward. Tennessee's a quarterback has been
(20:55):
flying under the radar, but his head coach, Brian Callahan
says he's been fitting in well.
Speaker 11 (21:01):
Cam understands those guys well, he understands how to interact
with him. He's played enough quarterback to understand how important
those guys are and what those relationships mean. And I
think he's done a good job so far.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
I mean, I'm not surprised he's not getting a lot
of buzz. Like, yes, he was the best quarterback in
the draft, but he wasn't the biggest story and he
wasn't the biggest brand. He's also going to a team
that has a lot of work to do. They were
the number one overall pick for a reason. They had
three wins laft season. They're over under said at five
and a half wins this season. So, I mean, it's
(21:36):
not an exciting sexy topic or brand talking about it.
So I just what are your expectations for Okay?
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Well, I think it's great that there's no massive pressure,
there's no media rush. That's tennessee him more. Yeah, like
he's going to be able to work kind.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Of quietly, get no expectations and then blow everybody away
with if you can. You never know. You never know
what a rookie quarterback is going to be.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Does he have a saying like what be legendary?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Does he?
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Do?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You have a Hall of famers just talking about him
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Sorry, should Oh that's what you're going to I was like,
what are you alluding to here?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Just it just feels like.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
He's set up more for success there without pressure, no
less pressure and expectations. So like if he doesn't do great,
he's not going to get torn apart for it. But
if he does well, it'll be like oh look, yeah, No,
that was the number one overall pick for a reason.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
He's not even in a battle like no, I know,
Callaghan said, like, well leves no loves, he's getting a
bunch of reps.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
No, absolutely not, like you had to pick this guy
to save your franchise and you have to start like
the whole the whole city's counting on him. So that'll
be interesting. But let's let's switch to the NBA. Bronnie
James made a ton of noise when he got drafted
and had a decent rookie year, bouncing up and down
from the G League and NBA. Report says that the
Lakers want Bronnie James to be a regular part of
(22:59):
the rotation in twenty twenty five, as Lebron enters his
twenty third year. So the Lakers have a lot of
work to do this offseason. I don't think adding Bronnie
James as a regular to the rotation is going to
fix a lot of the problems that they have, but
good for him if that ends up happening. The Lakers
(23:19):
need a big man, the Lakers need youth, The Lakers
need shooting, the Lakers need size. They're probably going to
have to part ways with Austin Reeves that they're going
to trade for someone they need Dalton Connect to start
playing like an NBA player. Again, I think that whole
trade situation kind of messed with him mentally a little,
which like that's not surprising for a young rookie player.
(23:43):
So they just is this a good move for the Lakers?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I like to like understand why this is coming out.
I mean, it is June. Why are we talking about
Ronnie in the rotation? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I wonder if the Lakers are already getting their ducks
set up. Hey, Gabe Vincent, thank you for your services.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
He ain't coming back though.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
What let me ask you this. You guys just watch
a piecers have a guy come off the bench. Yeah, scrappy,
not a great shooter, picked up full court, was like.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
An energy guy. TJ.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
McConnell, Yes, he's a veteran. Bronnie's only twenty. Can Bronnie
be along the lines of TJ McConnell for twelve minutes
a night for the Lake? Not?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Is that it's hard because Bronnie's situations when he was
playing with the Lakers were blowout games. They either up
a bunch or they were down a bunch, so he's
not playing. He hasn't gotten that experience in close on
the line games, and you can't really have that level
of play until you've been in that experience.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
I mean, if you give him, like, you know, five
minutes bridging the first and second quarters and then five
minutes in the I.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Mean, anything's keep guys. His dad's Lebron James. He's training
with the greatest player in our game right now, So
there's definitely potential there.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, nobody had him to shoot ten times a game.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
No, there's there's potential. And when you have Lebron your
dad and that's who you're working with and training with
every single day, anything is possible. We also have to remember,
like he's still like not that far removed from having
his cardiac problem, like, so he's still building back up
to his full potential. Like good for him, Like I
(25:16):
hope he makes it into the regular rotation because I
want young players to succeed, and he has had the
world against him again like a share situation, having your
dad being Lebron James, Like it's you've come into this
in a lose lose situation no matter what. So yeah,
I mean, good for him. I hope he gets playing time,
but I don't think that's going to solve the Lakers'
(25:37):
needs and issues for what they need next season.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
One of the things their bench was just non existent,
well at all that Dallas series.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So I'm sorry Minnesota series.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
So is there a world where watching the Thunder play
eleven guys, yeah, and watching the Pacers play ten eleven guys.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah, say hey, we're gonna have to play more dudes.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
We can't have they.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Have to move the logging thirty eight minutes ago. It's
just not sustainable.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It's not.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
But I think are going to, like you learn, like
this was jd Reddick's first full season as a head coach,
this was his first playoff experience as a head coach.
Like that's kind of what he got ripped for was
the playing time that he had his stars.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
On the court.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
He's gonna be the first guy off the bench, but
maybe if he's your fourth guy off the bench, and
you know what, we're playing guys to keep.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Luka and lebronst for the player.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Yeah, and he's he's gonna give it all his all,
and you know he will, And like I said, he's
training with the best his dad. Okay, on side to
the East Jannis sweepstakes is starting to heat up. According
to Toronto Star writer Doug Smith. Giannis reportedly has let
it be known that he wants to stay in the
East and Toronto would be an acceptable destination, adding the
wild card is the cost. But I also think the
(26:43):
Raptors are uniquely placed to make an attractive offer that
won't ruin their franchise or roster. But Jaymack, at this point,
it's all speculation, right, He's definitely going to be the
off season watch. But Jannis will go where the Bucks
get the best package for him. Now, I don't think
they're going to do him dirt. I think they're gonna
make sure that he's in a good spot, but they're
(27:03):
also gonna get as much in return that they can
for you honest, And he's obviously gonna be the first
domino effect that falls, because wherever he ends up going,
then you'll have kd Land somewhere, and then the other
big name free agents and trades happened later on in
the off season.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Where do you think he's show?
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Like, Okay, so I'm looking at the Raptors. Holy hell,
this is a terrible roster and they're paying a lot
of guys a lot of money. Yeah, But for some reason, Alex,
the NBA loves Scottie Barnes. He's one of these guys
who can master of jack of all trades, master of Nune. Yeah,
he just signed after his rookie deals, next deal, but
the NBA loves him. Would Milwaukee want him in a
(27:42):
package as a centerpiece? Scotty Barnes, who's like a the
young guy. He's like a poor man's Cooper Flag. Sorry
Scotty Barnes Troopers. But like Brandon Ingram.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Now, I don't think he's gonna end up in Toronto.
I think they're gonna they'll ultimately get out bid. Maybe
someone else's gonna.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Got Kawhi Leonard and they got that championship over the
Warriors in twenty nineteen, So I.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Wouldn't put it past him to make a big swing.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
I mean, the Raptors have been totally irrelevant since they
lost that uh or should they won the championship.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
It's just I see him going to a bigger market.
I see Yannis going to a figure.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I'll give Toronto props. That's a yeah city. Yeah, I'm
sure you've been there.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
It's actually the one city in Canada that I was
never on that road trip because I covered hockey, so
I've been to almost all the big cities, but that's
one once. I didn't go to Anna.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
I Love the Angels. Did might go to play Toronto.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
To the Kings O King Yeah, when I was doing
the King.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
It's a nice city, very cultural. Yeah, it's fun. It
does get cold, but I don't know if Jannis cares
Milwaukee is cold as well.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
I just don't think he's gonna end up there. So
we'll be in there, will be in the conversation like
up until the very end, and probably be a finalist.
But ultimately I think they get up.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, like if you trade away Scuddy Barnes, who are
you going there to play with? Yaka Pertle and Manual
quickly No no, Yeah, interesting name for sure, And I
think we'll see a lot of these pop up Orlando's in.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
The next you know.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah, but will he end up watch officially on his
watch Alex Burr, Well.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's the news and thanks for stopping by. The herd
Line news.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
All right, Coming on next Frank Isola drops by.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
He's gonna talk Nix and the future of Thibodeau, the
future of cat all that with the Knicks coming up next.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern nan am Pacific.
Speaker 7 (29:41):
Hey Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We are a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(30:02):
sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't
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that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
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check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
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Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Welcome back, great guests coming up right now. He's covered
the Knicks for a long time, a fixture in New
York media. Frank Issola currently with Sirius XM NBA Radio. Frank,
thanks a lot for taking the time this morning. I
know you're a busy man. Everybody wants to talk NX.
I'm curious your macro thoughts watching that series as they
(31:00):
blow game one and then ultimately lose the series and six.
Speaker 12 (31:03):
Well, I think you said it. Blowing game one was
the big difference there, because if you look at what
the Knicks did to Boston winning game one and two,
Boston should have won Game two. They lose that, they're
chasing the series. Cleveland should have won Game two at
home against Indiana. They're chasing the series. The Knicks losing
game one, and it wasn't just being up fourteen with
two fifty eight to go, or you're up nine points
(31:23):
with fifty eight seconds ago, and the Nicks scored four
more points. So that had to be a thirteen to
four run by Indiana just to tie the game up.
Look at that Haliburton shot, so a little bit of
luck factors in so a game that the Knicks should
have won. To me, that set the tone for the
entire series. The Knicks were chasing the series, they never
caught up to Indiana, and that that was the killer
game right there, That's the one they never recovered from.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
So just to be clear, you know, this is the
greatest season they've had this century, right, long playoff run.
But Knicks fans were expecting, Hey, we're favored in the series.
How are we not in the finals? And now it's
let's do the autopsy. Do we fire Thibodeau, do we
trade ca? What do we do with Bridges and his
new deal?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Lots on the table. It's gonna be a busy summer
in New York. Frank, Let's start with this.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
If you're giving advice to Dolan in company, what do
you say about Gianni's Do you try to make a
move and get in the mix or stand.
Speaker 12 (32:14):
Pat Oh, one hundred percent, I'm trying to make that move.
I think the Knicks window is right now. Over the
next two to three years, and you haven't won a
title since seventy three. If a player like that is available,
you certainly go for it. I don't know if the
Knicks can get it done. If I'm Milwaukee and I'm
making that big step to trade a guy like Janis
and Tetekunpo, I'm thinking about rebuilding. I'm looking to get
(32:34):
a lot of picks back, maybe a young player. I
still think that Houston is the ideal team for Milwaukee.
I think it would be the ideal team for Jannis
as well, But certainly the Knicks should go for it.
Hope that maybe Jannis could Findeglo's way there. Jason, you
know this the story of Queen's got the huge Greek population.
Jannis knows that as well, so there is a bit
of a tie there. But I don't know. I think
(32:55):
that'll be hard to pull off. But I'm certainly exploring
that if I'm the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Yeah, I can't imagine the Bucks to build around Karl
Anthony towns. By the way, let's talk for a few
moments about Cat A bit of a space Cadet defensively
commits some really goofy fouls. Seems to get the ball.
You remember how Julius Randall was a black hole. This
is like a different version of it because he can
actually shoot threes with some reliability.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I don't really know what to make a cat.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
He has flashes of that's the NBA player I know,
and then it's like, I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
He makes some really poor decisions.
Speaker 12 (33:27):
He certainly does. Is the reason why he was available
for the Knicks to acquire him. And it's not breaking
news that he struggles defensively. Everyone knew that before the
Knicks acquired him. I do think the fallout from them
losing this series, losing Game six, I think there's been
far too much criticism on Carl It was the only
starter that was a plus. Like the plus minus, he
was a plus. He was a plus all throughout the playoffs.
So yeah, defensively he struggles. But he also had a
(33:49):
Game three with the nixt season on the line where
he scored twenty points in the fourth quarter. He had
a couple of really big moments against Detroit. He had
some big moments against Boston in Games one and two
where he kind of bailed them out. I think the
big issue for the Knicks and I think Carl. You
know my morning radio partner, Brian Scalabrity talks about all
the time, and he played for Tom Tibodau in Chicago.
(34:11):
He feels like when guys are under Tom that second year,
he thinks it will help Bridges. He thinks it'll help Towns,
much like it helped Ojiannanobi, like it helped out Randall,
like it helped Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson was an MVP
candidate a few years into coming to the Knicks and
playing for Tom Thibodau. But the biggest issue, Jason, and
you know this, can you win when your two best
(34:32):
players are not great two way players? And that's gonna
be the biggest issue. Jalen Bruns and Karl Anthony Towns
both terrific offensively, struggled defensively, and that's an issue.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Do you think there's a role where the Knicks are
a bench or two player away, you know, they go
out and get like Nikhil Alexander Walker, Maybe start him
for Josh Hart, you go try to plot probably Al Horford,
like a veteran who can actually make shots like Mitchell
Robinson at times is unplayable because of the free throws.
But like Al Horford can play defense and make threes
and you're not asking heavy minutes. Are they just a
(35:04):
couple pieces away? Because remember not Tatum next year in Boston.
Speaker 12 (35:08):
Yeah, you know, one hundred percent right, And if you know,
going into the season, a lot of as Southern ow
I did that Boston was a clear favorite. They'll repeat
as Eastern Conference champions, probably repeat as NBA champions. Now
you look at the East, it's completely wide open, and
I think you're right. I think there is something to
be said. You know, Indiana got eliminated in four games
in the Eastern Conference finals. They kept that court together,
(35:30):
as you all saying goes, you know, you let the
kate bake a little bit. You know, why not try
to run it back if you're the Knicks, And maybe,
like you said, I think you're you're right with your thinking.
Trying to add a guy that can shoot coming off
the bench, you know they're shooting isn't great and adding
that kind of player will really open up the offense.
But again, they're going to have to address issues on
the defensive end and hope that they could figure something out,
(35:52):
because for me, that was the biggest issue they had
against Indiana going up and down the court, and the
Knicks really couldn't play for long stretches. Jalen Brunson and
Carling Anton the Towns. It's an issue when you can't
play your two best players a lot because both struggle
so much defensively.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
So let me ask you about this, Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Several months back, Becky Hammond made a statement, you can't
win with Jalen Brunson as your number one player. I
thought it was ludicrous. I said some stuff that was
kind of harsh. Listen, Jalen Brunson's an unbelievable player, man.
I think he's fourth in the league in playoffs.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Scoring this year.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
The Knicks are not anywhere near the Eastern Conference finals
without him. But like you said, the defensive question, Now,
listen that stuff dog Steph Curry early in his career too,
and they had to go out and get Igo Dala
and then Kevin Durant kind of a cheat code. But
is that the one argument for moving off Towns? Hey,
we need another defender. Og and Bridges are good, but
you kind of need another defender to help out Brunson, right.
Speaker 12 (36:48):
Hey, And that's the thing if you look at Carl
he's an unbelievable offensive player, but defensively struggles. And I
understand what Becky Hammond was trying to say, but you know,
Isaiah Thomas was an undersize, yeah guard, he won a
championship as what is he like? Six foot two? Now
that's an all time great player. But Brunson has been
outstanding the last couple of years with the Knicks, and
you know it from watching it. You see him on
(37:10):
the court in the fourth quarter as all the confidence
in the world that he's going to make the right play.
I think if you go back to Game one, I
thought he gave up the ball a little early with
what fourteen seconds left in regulation. The Carl's Jalen's got
to hold onto the ball, get fouled and he needs
to go to the free throw line and knock down
those two free throws. But again to your point, it's
something that the Knicks have to figure out if they want,
(37:31):
you know, let's you know, they finished four with a
six win shy of winning a title. Right they had
ten wins, they still needed to win six. It's hard
to win sixteen playoff games. And right now it was
proven that this team simply wasn't good enough. I still
think there were moves that they could make. I still
think Jalen Brunson could be that player. Look everywhere he's been,
every level, high school, college, in the NBA, He's won big.
(37:53):
He hasn't won the Ultimate Prize yet in the NBA,
but he took the Knicks to a place that hadn't
been in twenty five years.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
So Vin Durant has been a fascination of the Knicks
for probably at least a decade. Let's just say I
don't think it could happen, But let's say, Karl Anthony
Town straight up for Durant, do you do that deal?
Speaker 12 (38:11):
You know what, I would think long and hard about it,
just because I know I can trust Durant in the playoffs,
especially offensively, even defensively. He's going to give you something.
And again, I'm looking at that window for the next
I really do think it's about a two to three
year window with a lot of these guys, and when
you haven't won a championship seventy three, hadn't been to
(38:32):
the vinal since nine. And that's why I mean, I
thought they gave up too much to get Bridges. But
I understood swinging for the fences because it's been that
long since you've done anything. And I think with Kevin
Durant out there, and I think Kevin Durant will be rejuvenated.
When a guy like of that status hasn't appeared in
a postseason game this season, He's going to be hungry
to get back there. And I think Kevin Durant would
(38:53):
come in with the right attitude. I think he would
like the series of the Knicks program, you know, Tom Thibodeau,
Jalen Brunson. I think he fit perfectly. Is it a
gamble one hundred percent because of his age and the
injury factors, but it's something that I certainly would consider.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, the age is a question. You mentioned window.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
So Durant turns thirty seven in September, and if you
look at his last few seasons, he's been injured a lot.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Do you think that he would shrink the next window
to maybe just one season's.
Speaker 12 (39:20):
That's certainly a possibility. But you know this, Jason, You
know this about Kevin Durant. He loves to play basketball.
I take away the Twitter stuff that he does. He
loves to play basketball. He loves to compete, so you
know that he's going to do everything that he can
to get himself ready to play the basketball part. I
had heard at the Olympics a lot of these coaches
that weren't around him that much, they were blown away
(39:43):
by how much he puts into it every single day.
So you know, you're getting the guy with the right
kind of mindset. And I think if he came, I
think he'd be able to handle the pressure. I know
he gets sensitive to it at times, but I would
think after what happened in Phoenix this year, with that
team not making the playoffs, I think he would be
June to come to the.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Next interesting All right, onto the finals real quick.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Actually, first of all Eastern Conference Finals MVP voting. You know,
we didn't do the subject yet, but we might. Siakam
won five to four over Haliburton. First of all, do
you think this award is dumb because it's just the series,
not all of the playoffs, and they shouldn't have been Haliburton.
Speaker 12 (40:22):
Well, I don't have a problem with them giving out awards.
Everyone gets awards, you know, that's like our new thing now.
Speaker 7 (40:28):
But I agree with you.
Speaker 12 (40:30):
If I had a vote, and that takes nothing away
from Pascal Siakam, but to me, everything is different. Like
Haliburton shot in game one is not just one shot
that wins one game. That was a massive shot that
tied it up and they go on to win that game.
So when the biggest moment he delivered. Then in game four,
after they had blown the twenty point lead in game
(40:51):
three and he didn't play well, he put up historic numbers.
The numbers that he put up in that game with
no turnovers was something that no player had ever done
in any NBA game. Well, those two games right there,
and the fact that he played well in the second
half of Again, no problem with Siakam. I didn't have
a vote because I wasn't there in Indiana. I know
some of our brethren in the media, people that you know,
and I've already given them a hard time about it.
(41:12):
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I would have voted for
tybris Alibert.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
All right, fifteen seconds, who you got in the finals,
OKAC or Indiana and how many games?
Speaker 12 (41:21):
You know what, It's hard to pick against OKAC. There's
such a good team defensively. I look at Indiana. It'd
be great for that city and for that franchise been
in the NBA a long time, a performer ABA team
to get the banner. But I don't know. Oklahoma City
winning that game for Jason in Denver, they were down
to one in the series, they were down entering the
fourth quarter. Them winning that game for I think that's
(41:42):
the game they're going to look back on and say
that's the game that changing.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Loue George Special. All right, Frank guy Sola serious except
great stuff. Man, Thanks a lot. We'll follow you all offseason.
Back here next hour.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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