June 13, 2025 • 41 mins
Colin shares his top “Head Coach – Quarterback Combos” in the NFL right now and argues Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin not making the list is the reason why they aren’t a serious playoff team this season
He defends former Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau after getting fired and why this was clearly a mistake after New York had their best season in over 2 decades
More on Shedeur Sanders at Browns camp
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh, here we go. It is a Friday. It is
great to have you in. Jmck and I ready.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
To roll on a Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Jmac tonight, of course Game four, pivotal game for the
NBA Finals. I am falling in love with this Indiana
Pacer team. Uh. We'll have Brick Buker on Next Star
to talk some of that, you know, J mack, it is.
It is the summer of love in the NFL. Because
we had the combine and then we had the draft
(00:58):
and nobody has a bad draft. Everybody gets an Arab, right,
nobody's got a bad draft, and then we got OTAs.
Oh who these guys are amazing and I want to
talk about that.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's the summer of love. I saw this story this morning.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Aaron Rodgers, Blairs the headline and Mike Tomlin form a
unique super Bowl partnership. Oki doky, I saw another story.
Uh Bo Nix is playing fast. Here's another one. One
of his teammates in Minnesota, says j. J. McCarthy, who
(01:32):
has never played an official NFL regular season game, reminds
him of another quarterback.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
He understands that we have to build a family here
and that you know, he can't have unique results without
unique relationships that we believe in. And then man, he's
got some confidence and he reminds me of like Josh
Allen when I was with him in Buffalo, coming into
his own and understanding the power that he has to
lead this organization.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And he's doing a fantastic job doing that.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
JJ McCarthy reminds him of Josh Allen. Okay, that's a
little hot for me. Here's what's really gonna happen this
regular season, and all of us know it is that
this league is now, because of rule changes, a seventy
thirty quarterback coach league. As great as Andy Reid is,
(02:20):
he only started hoisting trophies when he got Patrick Mahomes.
Now it may be a sixty five thirty five league
quarterback coach. It may be a seventy five twenty five,
but it's about a seventy to thirty swing. So if
you have a star quarterback and he has at least
a B coach, he's gonna make the playoffs. If you
(02:42):
have a really good quarterback with an A coach, he's
probably gonna make the playoffs. So these are not my
playoff predictions, but this is what I believe makes the
playoffs generally. Either a star quarterback with a B co
you're better, or an a coach with a really really
(03:03):
good quarterback that is often young and getting better. The
first group, and my opinion the five best quarterbacks in
the NFL are Patrick Mahomes, Matt Stafford, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
And Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I know you don't love Zach Taylor, but he got
to a super Bowl. He's had a lot of big
wins for a young coach. I think he's bright. I
don't always love his clock management, but I didn't like
Andy Reid's before he had a great quarterback. I'm going
to go they'll make the playoffs. The next group Jaden Daniels,
(03:34):
Justin Herbert, C. J. Stroud, Hertz and Golf. I know,
I know Nick Seriani don't love him, but if you
win a Super Bowl, I gotta make you a be coach.
The team buys into him. And then the third group,
and it's mostly a group where I love the coach.
Jordan Love and Matt Lafleur, bo Nix and Sean Payton,
brock Perty and Kyle Shanahan and Drake Mayon Vrabel. This group,
(03:58):
I generally liked the quarter I like the coach more.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Than the quarterback, but the quarterback is good enough.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
These are not my playoff predictions, but mine are pretty
darn close to this.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And my gett.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Now I don't have Donald or Baker or Gino and
they're really close or Caleb. Those guys were next in line.
You know who's not Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin because
Aaron's not close to his prime and Mike doesn't make
quarterbacks better. And as much as we talk about the
revelation of JJ McCarthy or the special relationship in Pittsburgh,
(04:36):
this is an incredibly predictable league, and in the AFC
with the higher end quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's even easier.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Last couple of years, it's been a really easy conference
to predict division winners. Again, I had Donald Close, and
I actually have Donald in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Geno's close. I think he is Donald. I got Caleb
Close love his coach.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
By and large, all this summer of love, we all
kind of know what it's going to look like by
the first week of February. All right, So maybe the
biggest story of the week has been the Knicks firing Tibbs.
That was a couple of weeks ago, but it's interesting yesterday.
(05:21):
I'm here in some of the next players like Jalen
Brunson saying, hey, this guy deserves love.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Well, of course he does.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But when you fire somebody. My wife used to work
in HR and I remember when I first met her
twenty years ago and she said something. She had worked
in the hiring business. She said, overwhelmingly people fire themselves
they know it's coming. Well, I don't think Tibbs knew
it was coming, and I don't think he fired himself.
(05:47):
And here's why I keep hearing this. You know, the
Knicks weren't creative enough offensively the Knicks. The Knicks made
some moves and didn't get better. So last year, at
this time, one calendar year from today, they had Dante
deven Tenjo. They not only had him, he was their
number one three point shooter, they had Julius Randall, who
(06:09):
was their number two playmaker behind Brunson number two and
scoring number two and assists. They also had Isaiah Hartenstein
their starting center, big time energy guy. So any team
that loses their best three point shooter in a three
point shooting league, their number two playmaker and a high
energy starting center, you would think, who.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Boy, that's going to be rough.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The Knicks for actually better in the regular season, went
further in the playoffs, and were actually slightly better offensively
in net ratings seven to five. It's like the Knicks
fired their trainer because they only lost twelve pounds and
they wanted to lose fifteen. Yeah, maybe your diet's not
good enough. That's why the TIBs thing has always been
(06:54):
about personnel. I like McHale Bridges, but he's not consistent offensively.
I like Kat he's bad defensively, certainly not as good
as Hartenstein. So my take on this whole thing is generally,
and I think my wife was right, people do fire themselves.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
They're inconsistent, they're not reliable, they're toxic, they're just not
very good. But Tim's actually one more games regular season,
one more games in the playoffs, and was slightly better
offensively losing his number two playmaker is best three point shooter,
and I would argue Hartenstein is a more complete center
(07:33):
than Robinson News all defense or cat who's all offense.
And Paul Pierce talked about this yesterday.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
When you look at the likes of Indiana, when you
look at Boston and teams of that nature in the
Eastern Conference, these guys had depth, and that's something that
the Knicks were front heavy. So I think he maxed
out the rosters. So I don't think a coach coming in.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
The roster is what the roster is. It's not the coach.
Speaker 6 (08:01):
You're gonna have to get more pieces for this team
to get over the hump. I don't care who you
bring in. You can bring in Red all Back, you
can bring in Phil Jackson. This team max stout.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And what's interesting is of all the teams that Kevin
Durant is rumored to be going to, there's four that
are getting mentioned. The Knicks are one of those teams.
Meaning even New York Nick fans, New York Knick media,
and NBA insiders believe they could really use another catch
(08:33):
and shoot guy. So you're acknowledging the personnel isn't quite right.
And beyond all of this is the fact that you
and I are watching the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They've got more good players.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Miles Turner is a better rim defender than Robinson and
a better center, better offensively Pascal Sayakam to me, I
would rather have him on the floor than Kat Halliburton,
to me, is a more complete guard than Jalen Brunson.
And they've got a couple of other players who shoot
(09:08):
threes more consistently. It feels like to me than Mikhale Bridges.
Indiana's got better players. You could say, well, they got
a better coach. Well, he's been fired twice too. So
when I look at Indiana and I look at the Knicks,
and the Knicks gave, I mean, the Knicks gave the
Pacers more troubled than Cleveland did, more trouble than Milwaukee did,
(09:30):
and about the same level of trouble Oklahoma City is.
So if you start watching, I mean, remember that ball
that bounced high into the air and went in for
the Pacers. Some felt that was the difference in the
series for a while So the tips thing is, it's
not just that the Knicks didn't have the next coach
in waiting, is you're acknowledging it to personnel issue.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That's why you want KD.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
They got better in the regular season, better in the playoffs,
and a slightly better net rating.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
That feels like a job promotion, not a pink slip.
All right, j MC, We've got a lot of things
going on today. You know tonight's game. What's the number?
In fact, I think it's okase. He's a big favorite tonight, right.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
Okay, see minus six Now it's dipped to five and
a half in some spots. Obviously, I'm shocked that the
market didn't move yesterday when I said I'm on the
Pacers in Game four. But you know whatever, I'm surprised
you haven't picked the game yet.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I don't feel I'm not going to bet against Indiana here.
We both loved Indiana in Game three. Just think about
what could happen to night in in American sports.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Everybody, you know, the.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
People that cover this league in the locker rooms day
and day out. If you would have pulled the coaches
and the GMS, nobody would have picked Indiana to win
the championship. They were not favored against first round of Milwaukee. Now,
I think we both loved them over Milwaukee. We thought
it was a great matchup for them. I didn't like
him over Cleveland. You did New York Indiana. I kind
of liked Indiana, but it was slight, and I liked
(11:02):
Oklahoma City. Think about all the knowledge in the NBA,
the media, the coaches, the GMS. If you'd have polled
all of them, including the players. Remember Halliburton was voted
most overheted player, nobody would have picked the Pacers to
win the championship. And if they win tonight, they won't
be up three to one. And I think that the
numbers are something like eighty eight percent ninety two percent
(11:23):
winning if they win that game, which by the way,
they have been the much better fourth quarter team. Oklahoma
City is clearly younger and not as good on the road,
and Halliburton right now is once again looking against Milwaukee,
Cleveland and New York controlling the pace of the series.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
Okay, see, by the way, to eight against the spread
on the road. Have not covered one road game in
the postseason. Yet for some reason, everybody's obsessed with their
season long net rating. Everybody's got okay, see today, Colin,
I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Give me the Pacers once again. Teams are thirty seven
to one in the finals when leading three to one.
If Indiana wednesdaight, folks, what a revelation that nobody in
the league, no GM, I mean outside of Indiana's group,
nobody would have picked them, which I guess this is
the NBA Adam Silver wanted.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I know the ratings aren't great. I find it interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
All right, you guys know him into the Shador Sanders story,
OTA's mini camps. So Mary kay Cabot's a really good,
award winning reporter in Cleveland through the years, probably last
ten fifteen years. If she says something or has insights,
I tend to kind.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Of lean on that.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
It's a very loud media market, so there's a lot
of talk radio is big there in sports radio. But
I trust Mary kay Cabot, not that I don't trust others,
but I know her. So she made an observation yesterday
on the quarterback tool that the coaching staff Kevin Stefanski
again a guy I really respect.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I think he's super bright.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Like him, that he is giving Dylan Gabriel and Kenny
Pickett more of the offense. That's why their completion percentage
is down, and that Shadeur Sanders is getting more layups.
They're not putting in quite the install with him. In
her belief, it's an observation, which is, you know, it's
(13:22):
an opinion with information. Is that basically the staff thinks
Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett are closer to starting in
terms of readiness, Shadeur Sanders is number four. Now what
it was kind of fascinating to me, not since Tim
Tebow and Johnny Manziel have we had a rookie quarterback
that people were this divided on. Now. I didn't like Tebau.
(13:45):
I didn't think he had the release of the arm.
I think I was right. I didn't like Manziella. I
didn't think he had the maturity. I was absolutely right.
I think in both instances, Chador is mature enough. He's
not disruptive, and I think his arm and his release
are fine. But it is interesting to watch, you know,
to watch the opinions on this. People are absolutely taking sides.
(14:06):
So now if you're not a shador fan, there are
two things that help your argument. Number One, Brian Dabol
had an interview with Shaduur, and I think Brian's really sharp.
I don't blame the giant problems on Brian Dable. He
may not be able to fix the issues, but I
don't think he's the leader of the issues or the
(14:26):
primary reason they went up to the whiteboard and Shaduur
did not handle it well.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
That would concern me.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
The second thing is Mary kay Cabot report is the
coaches are giving him the easiest route because he's fourth
in readiness. Well, he had a lot of college starts.
What are you waiting for? So I think that's fair.
But there's always been this. You hear this all the
time from business leaders that say trust your got My
dad was an optometrist. I trust my eyes, and my
(14:56):
eyes tell me that Kenny Pickett's not a starting quarterback
in the NFL well, and Dylan Gabriel's too small and
doesn't have the arm to be a starting quarterback. My
eyes tell me that Joe Flacckele right now is the
best quarterback in Shador Sanders is number two. And so
that's what my eyes tell me. And I watched Dylan
Gabriel in college and I thought that's a hell of
(15:17):
a college quarterback at Oklahoma and Oregon. I never thought
of him as a franchise quarterback in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I didn't think he could. I thought he was too small.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So my eyes tell me Shador is bigger, at least
has as good an arm, has es capability, and it's
just a more natural athlete. Here's Kevin Stefanski on Schadeur's
progress so far.
Speaker 8 (15:36):
I said, right behind him, Joe is to my left,
to Shador's left, and to see those two bounced ideas
off of each other is hilarious. You know, Joe will
say a few things and I'll be like, Joe, Chadur
wasn't born. He wasn't born then. So it's just he's
got great energy, great kid, working his tail off, and
(15:58):
he's playing really well too.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
All right, there you go.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So I'm just telling you what I saw. And I've
said this about Jackson Dart when I watch a guy
in college, and I've done this forever sometimes I turn
the sound down. I just want to watch him, just
a visual watch. That's it, just visual. I don't want
to hear announcers. I don't want any bias. Let me
watch a guy. Did they look and feel like a
(16:21):
starting quarterback in the NFL? Shader Sanders did to me.
Daniel Jones did not to me. Zach Wilson did not
to me.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You know, I.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Marcus Mariota was a very very good college quarterback. I
never quite thought that was gonna work. But with Shadur,
I just my eyes tell me it's gonna work.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Jmack with the news, No, no, no, turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
All right, coll let's bust right into it. Game four
is tonight, Okase at Indiana. The focus right now is
on Sga. He did finish for twenty four points in
Game three, but only for assists, had six turnovers, and
Colin I've got some late game numbers I'm gonna give
you on a second that are horrible for him. But
here's what SGA said talking to the media yesterday.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
You gotta suck it up. You have to. There's maximum
four games left in this season, and it's what you
worked the whole season for. It's what you work all
summer for. So to me, the way I see it is,
you gotta suck you gotta suck it up, get it done,
and try to get a win.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
You know, actually about this after Game three, about how
tired he was because they were picking him up full
court and putting him in action when he was on defense.
Colin is, are these m VP numbers on the screen
for a fourth quarter for SGA? Now, one game was
a blowout, but games one and three were close, and
he's done nothing less than an assist in the fourth
quarter in.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
The NBA Finals? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I was thinking about this about SGA, they or not
when I was watching the game. So let's just I'm
older than you obviously. But if you think about the
dynasties in the NBA, Bill Russell, Kareem, Magic Bird, Shaq,
Kobe Lebron Steph, do I believe SGA historically is as
(18:16):
good as any of those players?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Well, I'm asking you know way Okay?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
That was my point, And so SGA, like the seventies NBA,
is in this space where there's a lot of really
exceptional players. Jason Tatum, SGA but do they look at
the history of dynasties in the NBA. These are like
there's like seven to eight Russell Kareem Michael, Magic Bird,
(18:49):
Steph Lebron. You see what I'm saying here to be
in a dynasty, a multiple championship dynasty, they all have.
And I think Tim Duncan many things. Tim Duncan would
start on the all time starting five at your power forward,
they're all top ten players. Ever, so as I like SGA,
maybe we're just overstating the fact right now is that
(19:12):
the talent in the NBA is so widespread that everybody's
got you know, the top teams all have several good players.
Now I think Jokic is an All timer. Now, so
that could splinter my argument because I do think Jokic
is an All timer, but SGA maybe the leading score,
but we don't put him in the Lebron MJ Bird class.
So as he is struggling here and gets to his
(19:35):
first finals, maybe we just need to pump the brakes
and realize he is an exceptional player.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
He's not an All timer.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
And that's one of the issues I have when people
are like SCA's getting in the mid range, like Kobe. Whoa, whoa,
we're taking a few leaps here.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Somebody clipped off.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
Some ESPN reporter on a podcast saying, if SCA wins
Scoring Title, MVP, Championship and Finals MVP, he's got to
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And I saw it on social media.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
I was like, are you kidding? People are talking about
SGA in the Hall of Fame? Colin. That's and this
is a larger issue with the NBA. That's how desperate
they are to hype up this this series.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Let me ask you, give me a break.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Go to the or even the early days of Kareem
and Russell and Magic and Bird and Lebron and MJ
and Staff and Duncan.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Would you even consider trading them?
Speaker 5 (20:30):
No?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
But SGA was a clipper and ended up in OKC.
Now you could say, well he was a slow guy
to develop, but if you look at the dynasties in
league history, nobody was thinking of trading people and SGA
was a clipper. That doesn't mean I don't think he's great,
that doesn't mean he's an adult. He's a profound, profound
(20:51):
offensive player. We all like him, but it is interesting
we've kind of moved him into an arena because of
stats James Hardens offensive stats through the room.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Let's just I think those numbers that you point out
in the fourth quarter is that is a little alarming
because of what the Pacers have shown. If you throw
a lot of bodies at him, he wears down.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, that's the strategy.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
And by the way, they started to double him because listen,
as a basketball player, if you don't get the ball
for a little bit and then you finally get it,
you're looking to score. And the Pacers knew that, and
they would send Obi Toppin on the double and SGA
kept making bad, poor decisions. Colin and I do have
some bad news for the Pacers fans. They just announced
that Scott Foster is going to be the referee tonight.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You're familiar with this work.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
I see the groan, I see the grimace. Cowhard is
not happy. So some Pacers fans are already pulling the
numbers with Scott Foster Indiana six and thirteen, allegedly that's
their record.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I don't like this at all.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
We know Scott Foster's history.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
What is his history?
Speaker 7 (21:55):
He extends series, that's his joke. He's the extender he
comes in. Hey, Scotty, we got some problems here. We
need you to extend the series. Let me let me
see the fifteen free throws tonight watch.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Let let me defense gouff. Oh please try so he's
the series extender. Yeah, could I not argue? They put
him on the biggest series and when you have a
great series with two great teams, it's not a sweep.
They don't, you don't. They don't put him on a
crappy series. They put him in the best series with
the best matchups of the best teams because he's competent.
(22:26):
And those series, I mean, Michael Jordan, how many final
sweeps did he have?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
None?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So the truth is Foster gets on better series and
they're there. Those series always goes five or six or
seven games.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
Scott Foster's like when the Chiefs don't get called for
a holding penalty for like three Super Bowls. That's why
it's like Scott Foster stuff. I don't like this at all,
but I'm optimistic. All right, let's go to the second story. Colin,
this is a big meatball for you. Jalen hurts your guy,
one of your favorite quarterbacks. That's not six four, Hey,
he's coming off a Super Bowl MVP destroying the she Efs.
(23:01):
Did you know this, Colin? Jalen Hurts is working with
his sixth offensive coordinator in as many seasons. In the
media asked him about it, I have him, will be here.
Speaker 9 (23:11):
There'll be your sixth play caller, going back to Doug
your rookie year.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
Six.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Right, I don't count.
Speaker 10 (23:19):
There's a dynamic of adaptability that you have to be
able to have and find success regardless of what the
leadership looks like, what the voice is, who's in a
quarterback room coaching me, or who's out there calling plays.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, yeah, no big deal.
Speaker 7 (23:35):
Six offensive coordinators in six years. Meanwhile, Patrick Mahomes just
gifted Andy Andy Reid. Yeah, Colin, we had some more
stats for you. In the Jalen Hurts argument. So since
he entered the league in twenty twenty, right, he is
third and wins, third and total touchdowns, and third in
total yards only behind Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes. He's
(23:58):
ahead of Joe Burrow. He's at a Lamar Jackson because
he stays healthy. Jalen Hurts wins and scores touchdowns, and
he's had six offensive coordinators in six years.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
First of all, don't marginalize me that I don't like him.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I do like him.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I think he's like the ninth tenth best quarterback in
the league, maybe eight. So first of all, but if
you were GM tomorrow, your GM, Burrow and Hurts are
on the board, who do you take?
Speaker 7 (24:24):
Well, Okay, I guess I would lean Joe Burrow, but
there's only four guys I would take over Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 11 (24:31):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
That's it.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
I mean, I don't know how you have CJ. Stroud
over Jalen Hurts off one good season and the next
season was in.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Shutting Philadelphia. Philadelphia surrounds Jalen with pretty good players. Offensive
coordinator is my hot take of the day.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
Can you imagine if your radio show had six different
producers in six years and you'd be so frustrated? Final story, Colin, Oh,
here we go Cowboys. Bryan Schottenheimer, Boy, he is very
fired up about this season. He doesn't care about the
seven and ten mark last year. Schottenheimer believes they're gonna
be so good that teams are going to come and
poach their coaching staff.
Speaker 11 (25:07):
In the off season, we look for opportunities for the
younger coaches to get up in front of position groups
and lead meetings and do things, and we give them
projects all the time because we're gonna win. And when
we win, our coaching staff is going to get raided
and people are gonna come after our coaches.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Because we're gonna win.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, I'm going to push back on that. I don't
think that's gonna happen.
Speaker 7 (25:34):
So you know what the joke is going to be
all season. Brian Schottenheimer's initials are bs, and it sounds
like everything coming out of his mouth is pretty much that.
I mean Colin their offensive coordinators a gentleman named Clayton Adams.
He was an offensive line coach in Arizona last year.
Now they're DC. You're probably familiar with a fellow by
the name of eber Fluse who was a good DC
(25:55):
and Indy and.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Then he was a head.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Coach in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And how did that work out?
Speaker 7 (25:59):
I'm spacing.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
No, it's.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I think this is and I think let's go back
to why the Cowboys are in the dilemma they're in.
Mike McCarthy chose to leave the franchise.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
That should not be lost on anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Mike McCarthy left the Cowboys, and he left them in
somewhat of a lurch, which I'm sure Jerry Jones is
bitter about. But just why would Mike McCarthy leave this franchise?
And I don't know what Mike made, but probably seven
eight million a year somewhere about that in a state
would know income tax. Why would he leave? He would
(26:39):
leave because he didn't like what he saw. He knew
Jaden Daniels was going to be a problem, so we
would have a quarterback deficit. And he knows Philadelphia's roster.
He's got about four guys that can start on it. Yeah,
this whole cowboy situation goes back to ask yourself this,
how many fifty plus year old had coach is making
(27:00):
seven eight million dollars a year with a huge brand,
opt to leave? That doesn't happen. That does not happen
in the NFL. This, this situation is much more dire
than anybody wants to acknowledge. In Dallas, Mike McCarthy chose
to leave. Does it work that way? When's the last
(27:21):
time that happened. It's gonna get ugly, dude, It's going
to get ugly in Dallas Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Heard Line News.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
You know, Jmack, I'm surprised you have not inquired about
my dinner last night.
Speaker 7 (27:42):
I didn't want to put you on the spot, big guy.
I will never do it during the commercial break, but uh,
you want to talk to the audience about hanging out
with some big wigs, and she.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Got it's not hanging out with big wigs I had.
I had been trying for the last month to meet
the president of the Chicago Bears, Kevin Warren, and I
did last night. We had a great dinner and had
a lot of people that we really liked or admired
in common, really good friends, people that I really like
and rely on and trust, and he was really good
(28:12):
friends with a lot of them. So it was a really,
really fun dinner. He also brought maybe the best wine
I've ever had in my life. But beyond that, there
was a lot of information garnered last night, and there
was also an interesting discussion. He asked me my opinion
on Caleb Williams and what it's going to take, and
I'll share that with you. Having been in Los Angeles,
(28:35):
he knew I was around the program. We talked about that,
and I'll talk about that next.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern not a em Pacific.
Speaker 12 (28:44):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 8 (28:49):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 12 (28:50):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 13 (28:52):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show, ever get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, you blubber list lame me.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 13 (29:11):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 12 (29:25):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out Over Promise and also Uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 13 (29:35):
There you go, over Promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
Tomorrow is Baseball Night in America on Talks, and a
historic rival is at it again as Aaron Judge and
the Yankees take on Rafiel Devers and the Red Sox
or the Padres battle Die in Backs. Check local listings
for the game in your area Tomorrow, seven Eastern on Fox.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Those are Yankee Red Sox games. Last weekend, I think
Fox had ratings on a three year high. So baseball
the renaissance, all the changes Rob Manfred has made, they
are working. So if you've ever been I don't think
I've ever been in this situation. But if you're a
young person, you could be eight years old at twenty
(30:27):
three and you're in survival mode. Maybe you're in an
abusive relationship, you have chaos in your life. It could
be from parents, it could be from siblings. You're in
survival mode. There's not a lot of growth, right, Like
it's hard to grow in chaos. You're just trying to
go day to day, meal to meal, week to week
(30:47):
and survive. And I'll start with that because I had
dinner last night with the president of the Bears, Kevin Warren,
and we were talking a lot about this. He knows
I've been in Los Angeles. He knows I was close
to the program, and you know us is now the
Big ten and Heat now which he used to be
the president of. And we were talking a lot about
Kayleb Williams, and I said, first of all, I said,
(31:08):
he was better than you give him credit for. If
you go last year, remember they fired their head coach,
they fired their offensive coordinator, and their passing game coordinator
became their interim head coach against Dan Campbell, Matt Lafleur,
and Kevin O'Connell. Not great, and yet he set a
Bears rookie quarterback record for passing yards and touchdowns and
(31:30):
didn't have many turnovers.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
But Jaden Daniels was so good.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
There's a comp people comparing, and he didn't look nearly
as good. But what I said last night is here's
what I witnessed. So the first year at USC, Caleb
Williams was absolutely magical. I mean people were saying he
would have been the first guy picked if he had
come out after that year. So we saw a little
bit in Oklahoma. Magical, first year at USC, magical. Well,
(31:57):
the first six games of his second year at USC,
he had twenty one touchdowns in one pick, six and zero.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
He was magical.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So if you go to his first sixteen, seventeen, eighteen
games at USC, I mean this kid was unbelievable. And
then the last six games it was a disaster what happened.
And that's what we talked about, I said, USC, where
Kevin Warren went in college, USC sacked him six times.
They had been doing smoking mirrors on the offensive line
(32:28):
in pass pro pass protection, and it all unraveled against
a really good coach and a really good Notre Dame defense.
And that point forward, Lincoln Riley knew he had the
number one draft pick and didn't want him to get hurt,
so he went into protection mode with Caleb shrinks. The
playbook just doesn't allow him to run certain stuff, and Caleb,
(32:51):
knowing he's going to be the number one pick, thought
I'm in survival mode.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I can get hurt out here.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
And I agreed with him in the quarterback didn't trust
the protection, they shrinked the playbook, and he's just trying to.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Get through the season.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
He then goes to Chicago, ends up with a passing
game coordinator as a head coach. The staff in Chicago
is in survival mode. Caleb Williams is in survival mode,
and there's no growth in survival mode, and so Ben
Johnson's job in Chicago is extreme quarterback makeover. The talent's
(33:26):
all there, but they've got to renovate the house because
Caleb is last six games at USC and last season
along with the Bear staff.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Last season, it's just surviving.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
It's just getting play to play, and he developed some
really bad habits. I did not see those habits first
year at USC. I did not see those habits at
the start of last year. I saw them the last
six games at USC, during and after the Notre Dame game, and.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I saw them all last year.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So a lot of the criticism is ask yourself if
you ever had a bad job, rually abused, bad situation
in life or at work, and you're just trying to
make sure you get to your next paycheck.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Is there a lot of growth? Not really?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And so to me, the first thing Ben Johnson does smartly,
what does he do? He fixes the O line because
he can see on film that Caleb didn't trust his
USC on line or a Chicago O line or a staff.
So Ben Johnson's all about trust and erasing some really
bad habits that I didn't see in the first like
(34:33):
twenty games at USC And here's Ben Johnson on what
he's seeing.
Speaker 9 (34:38):
Sometimes you get wrapped up when you're in the multiple
play call game, being in a perfect play all the
time for the perfect coverage, that look of the defense.
And really with him, it's it doesn't matter so much
what the play call is. If it's the perfect play
versus firstly, then it's great it's there. And if it's not,
then he's able to find a way to make it work.
(35:00):
Think he's going to play on time when the receivers
present themselves that way, and if they're not there, if
number one or number two is not there, I think
he's got the ability to make it right for us.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
All Right, I want to talk about the Lakers here,
Magic john You know people, Jmack, You've probably taken some
liberties and made fun of Magic Johnson's Twitter accounts. It's
not the most creative, but whatever, But he didn't say
something about Luca Donjic Yesterday on Twitter, he said, Luca,
it's great what you did in Dallas, but there's a
difference in Los Angeles, and we expect our superstars to
lead us to championships. Lebron already did that. Luca, that's
(35:35):
what you have to do.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And he's right.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And if you look at to me, the I would say,
don't take Luke off this before Luca. The eight greatest
Lakers of all time, you and I can go back
on this. They all have kind of one thing in common.
They played real defense. Kareem Abdul Jabbar made five all
NBA teams with the Lakers. Did Magic Johnson, Well, first
(36:01):
of all, they'll had championships. Kareem had five, Magic five,
Kobe five, Shack three Gasol to Jerry West, Wilt, Lebron won.
Those are the eight greatest Lakers to me. But the
other thing is they almost all Now, Magic was not
a great defensive player, but Jerry West was, Kobe was,
Kareem was, Lebron was, and Shaq I think made All
(36:23):
NBA Defense three times. So the eight greatest Lakers pre
Luca all have titles most multiple and they almost all
played defense. And that's the rub here with Luca is
that because he is such I've always said he's a
much better version of Carmelo Anthony. He'll never be in
great shape and never be a great defender, and people go, God,
(36:45):
it's ridiculous. He is so gifted offensively though, that the
media they give him a pass on this. They see
him doing a leg lift. Look, look, look at that
workout regimens.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Pro athlete. They all do that.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And I think with Luca, he's never going to be
a finely tuned and sculpted Adonnas. He'll never be d Wade,
He'll never be Lebron James. It's not who he is.
And he'll also never be Kobe Bryant. As a defensive player,
he's a combination of Steph Curry and Carmelo.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Not his style, but.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
The fact that he's never going to be like Carmelo.
He's gifted offensively, he's never going to be finely tuned.
He's never going to be a great defensive player. It's
not his mindset because offense comes so easy. But what
the Warriors did to get titles with Steph is they
acknowledged what he wasn't, not just the obvious stuff of
(37:50):
what he was. The Warriors were totally honest about Steph.
So they went and got Andre Iguodala, Draymond Green, Play Thompson,
elite defenders. Even Kevin Durant is a willing defender. Can
the Lakers be honest and acknowledge He's never going to
be a great defensive player. He's never gonna be Kobe,
He's never gonna be Lebron. He's never gonna be Jerry
(38:11):
West's defender. Nope, never going to be He's never going
to be d Wade as a defender, not ever. Just
acknowledge it and build around it. That's the question for
the Lakers, because I think what happens is you don't
really see because when a players on your team, you
(38:32):
watch him every night. And Laker fans are like, man,
we stole him. But there's a reason. There's a reason
Dallas moved him. Now, they didn't get enough of a
haul in return, but they were noticing that he wasn't
in great shape, and players that aren't in great shape
like Anthony Davis early in his career. What happens to them?
(38:54):
They get hurt a lot. You ever noticed Lebron and
Brady never got hurt because they're finely tuned. And so
as Luca's injuries increased, miss back to back camps, wasn't
even healthy when they.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Made the trade.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
They were worried that, like he was going to age
really really fast. And you and I know this. You
know Big Ben didn't take care of himself like Brady.
He aged much faster. Aaron Rodgers not obsessed as Brady
has aged much faster. Carmelo Anthony doesn't take care of
himself like Lebron, aged much faster. So Dallas was saying,
(39:30):
he's starting to get hurt and miss camp a lot. Now,
do I think he'll get in better shape? Yes, there's
a microscope on him and the Lakers. It's a bigger
city and a bigger brand. And do I think he'll
be a better defensive player? Yes, But what the Warriors did?
(39:50):
They acknowledged, okay, and the Knicks never did this with Carmelo.
The Warriors acknowledged, we're gonna have to surround this guy
and protect the rim. We're gonna I have to put
great defensive players around him because not all players, you know,
not all players give you both ends. Most great players do.
(40:11):
And almost all the Lakers greats have not only won championships,
they've been elite defenders. Shaq, Kobe West, Kareem was unbelievable,
almost all. I think Kasoul was a pretty good defender.
He was super long. So just something to think about.
It's I thought the tweet by Magic Johnson, often criticized,
(40:33):
was accurate. It is different to be a Laker. It
is if you're a quarterback. You'll be judged differently with
Andy Reid. Why because we know Andy's great. So if
you stink nobody wants to hear about clock management of
the coach, that you've got.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
To be better with Andy Reid. So Jay Max just
just thoughts.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
I mean, I mean, the Laker fans are making big
deals out of workout video for Luca, the workout.
Speaker 7 (40:58):
Video massively over. But sometimes you do this thing where
you put me in a position where I'm gonna say
stuff that people are gonna hate even though it's reality.
So you know, the saying no man is an island.
Nobody can do it themselves, Okay, Kobe won with Shaq
said get him out of here, tried to do it
himself and they couldn't get out of the first round
of the playoffs. Then he gets Scotsolden wins. Kevin Durant
(41:19):
is an awesome player. Awesome player, He's not a leader.
He needed to play with leaders in Golden State to
win titles. So yeah, Luca needs rim protectors, he needs defenders.
Got him Lively and Gafford.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
They were awesome.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
They go to the finals.
Speaker 7 (41:34):
No, nobody does it themselves. Patrick Mahomes wins with Andy Reid.
Andy Reid retires tomorrow. Let's see Mahomes wins another super Bowl. Right,
It's tough, like you can't do it by yourself. And
I just don't like the Luca bashing. You know, that's
my
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Guy bashing at HEA's just contextualization, is how I see it.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh, here we go. It is a Friday. It is
great to have you in. Jmck and I ready.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
To roll on a Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Jmac tonight, of course Game four, pivotal game for the
NBA Finals. I am falling in love with this Indiana
Pacer team. Uh. We'll have Brick Buker on Next Star
to talk some of that, you know, J mack, it is.
It is the summer of love in the NFL. Because
we had the combine and then we had the draft
(00:58):
and nobody has a bad draft. Everybody gets an Arab, right,
nobody's got a bad draft, and then we got OTAs.
Oh who these guys are amazing and I want to
talk about that.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's the summer of love. I saw this story this morning.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Aaron Rodgers, Blairs the headline and Mike Tomlin form a
unique super Bowl partnership. Oki doky, I saw another story.
Uh Bo Nix is playing fast. Here's another one. One
of his teammates in Minnesota, says j. J. McCarthy, who
(01:32):
has never played an official NFL regular season game, reminds
him of another quarterback.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
He understands that we have to build a family here
and that you know, he can't have unique results without
unique relationships that we believe in. And then man, he's
got some confidence and he reminds me of like Josh
Allen when I was with him in Buffalo, coming into
his own and understanding the power that he has to
lead this organization.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And he's doing a fantastic job doing that.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
JJ McCarthy reminds him of Josh Allen. Okay, that's a
little hot for me. Here's what's really gonna happen this
regular season, and all of us know it is that
this league is now, because of rule changes, a seventy
thirty quarterback coach league. As great as Andy Reid is,
(02:20):
he only started hoisting trophies when he got Patrick Mahomes.
Now it may be a sixty five thirty five league
quarterback coach. It may be a seventy five twenty five,
but it's about a seventy to thirty swing. So if
you have a star quarterback and he has at least
a B coach, he's gonna make the playoffs. If you
(02:42):
have a really good quarterback with an A coach, he's
probably gonna make the playoffs. So these are not my
playoff predictions, but this is what I believe makes the
playoffs generally. Either a star quarterback with a B co
you're better, or an a coach with a really really
(03:03):
good quarterback that is often young and getting better. The
first group, and my opinion the five best quarterbacks in
the NFL are Patrick Mahomes, Matt Stafford, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
And Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I know you don't love Zach Taylor, but he got
to a super Bowl. He's had a lot of big
wins for a young coach. I think he's bright. I
don't always love his clock management, but I didn't like
Andy Reid's before he had a great quarterback. I'm going
to go they'll make the playoffs. The next group Jaden Daniels,
(03:34):
Justin Herbert, C. J. Stroud, Hertz and Golf. I know,
I know Nick Seriani don't love him, but if you
win a Super Bowl, I gotta make you a be coach.
The team buys into him. And then the third group,
and it's mostly a group where I love the coach.
Jordan Love and Matt Lafleur, bo Nix and Sean Payton,
brock Perty and Kyle Shanahan and Drake Mayon Vrabel. This group,
(03:58):
I generally liked the quarter I like the coach more.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Than the quarterback, but the quarterback is good enough.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
These are not my playoff predictions, but mine are pretty
darn close to this.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And my gett.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Now I don't have Donald or Baker or Gino and
they're really close or Caleb. Those guys were next in line.
You know who's not Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin because
Aaron's not close to his prime and Mike doesn't make
quarterbacks better. And as much as we talk about the
revelation of JJ McCarthy or the special relationship in Pittsburgh,
(04:36):
this is an incredibly predictable league, and in the AFC
with the higher end quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's even easier.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Last couple of years, it's been a really easy conference
to predict division winners. Again, I had Donald Close, and
I actually have Donald in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Geno's close. I think he is Donald. I got Caleb
Close love his coach.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
By and large, all this summer of love, we all
kind of know what it's going to look like by
the first week of February. All right, So maybe the
biggest story of the week has been the Knicks firing Tibbs.
That was a couple of weeks ago, but it's interesting yesterday.
(05:21):
I'm here in some of the next players like Jalen
Brunson saying, hey, this guy deserves love.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Well, of course he does.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But when you fire somebody. My wife used to work
in HR and I remember when I first met her
twenty years ago and she said something. She had worked
in the hiring business. She said, overwhelmingly people fire themselves
they know it's coming. Well, I don't think Tibbs knew
it was coming, and I don't think he fired himself.
(05:47):
And here's why I keep hearing this. You know, the
Knicks weren't creative enough offensively the Knicks. The Knicks made
some moves and didn't get better. So last year, at
this time, one calendar year from today, they had Dante
deven Tenjo. They not only had him, he was their
number one three point shooter, they had Julius Randall, who
(06:09):
was their number two playmaker behind Brunson number two and
scoring number two and assists. They also had Isaiah Hartenstein
their starting center, big time energy guy. So any team
that loses their best three point shooter in a three
point shooting league, their number two playmaker and a high
energy starting center, you would think, who.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Boy, that's going to be rough.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The Knicks for actually better in the regular season, went
further in the playoffs, and were actually slightly better offensively
in net ratings seven to five. It's like the Knicks
fired their trainer because they only lost twelve pounds and
they wanted to lose fifteen. Yeah, maybe your diet's not
good enough. That's why the TIBs thing has always been
(06:54):
about personnel. I like McHale Bridges, but he's not consistent offensively.
I like Kat he's bad defensively, certainly not as good
as Hartenstein. So my take on this whole thing is generally,
and I think my wife was right, people do fire themselves.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
They're inconsistent, they're not reliable, they're toxic, they're just not
very good. But Tim's actually one more games regular season,
one more games in the playoffs, and was slightly better
offensively losing his number two playmaker is best three point shooter,
and I would argue Hartenstein is a more complete center
(07:33):
than Robinson News all defense or cat who's all offense.
And Paul Pierce talked about this yesterday.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
When you look at the likes of Indiana, when you
look at Boston and teams of that nature in the
Eastern Conference, these guys had depth, and that's something that
the Knicks were front heavy. So I think he maxed
out the rosters. So I don't think a coach coming in.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
The roster is what the roster is. It's not the coach.
Speaker 6 (08:01):
You're gonna have to get more pieces for this team
to get over the hump. I don't care who you
bring in. You can bring in Red all Back, you
can bring in Phil Jackson. This team max stout.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And what's interesting is of all the teams that Kevin
Durant is rumored to be going to, there's four that
are getting mentioned. The Knicks are one of those teams.
Meaning even New York Nick fans, New York Knick media,
and NBA insiders believe they could really use another catch
(08:33):
and shoot guy. So you're acknowledging the personnel isn't quite right.
And beyond all of this is the fact that you
and I are watching the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They've got more good players.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Miles Turner is a better rim defender than Robinson and
a better center, better offensively Pascal Sayakam to me, I
would rather have him on the floor than Kat Halliburton,
to me, is a more complete guard than Jalen Brunson.
And they've got a couple of other players who shoot
(09:08):
threes more consistently. It feels like to me than Mikhale Bridges.
Indiana's got better players. You could say, well, they got
a better coach. Well, he's been fired twice too. So
when I look at Indiana and I look at the Knicks,
and the Knicks gave, I mean, the Knicks gave the
Pacers more troubled than Cleveland did, more trouble than Milwaukee did,
(09:30):
and about the same level of trouble Oklahoma City is.
So if you start watching, I mean, remember that ball
that bounced high into the air and went in for
the Pacers. Some felt that was the difference in the
series for a while So the tips thing is, it's
not just that the Knicks didn't have the next coach
in waiting, is you're acknowledging it to personnel issue.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That's why you want KD.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
They got better in the regular season, better in the playoffs,
and a slightly better net rating.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
That feels like a job promotion, not a pink slip.
All right, j MC, We've got a lot of things
going on today. You know tonight's game. What's the number?
In fact, I think it's okase. He's a big favorite tonight, right.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
Okay, see minus six Now it's dipped to five and
a half in some spots. Obviously, I'm shocked that the
market didn't move yesterday when I said I'm on the
Pacers in Game four. But you know whatever, I'm surprised
you haven't picked the game yet.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
I don't feel I'm not going to bet against Indiana here.
We both loved Indiana in Game three. Just think about
what could happen to night in in American sports.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Everybody, you know, the.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
People that cover this league in the locker rooms day
and day out. If you would have pulled the coaches
and the GMS, nobody would have picked Indiana to win
the championship. They were not favored against first round of Milwaukee. Now,
I think we both loved them over Milwaukee. We thought
it was a great matchup for them. I didn't like
him over Cleveland. You did New York Indiana. I kind
of liked Indiana, but it was slight, and I liked
(11:02):
Oklahoma City. Think about all the knowledge in the NBA,
the media, the coaches, the GMS. If you'd have polled
all of them, including the players. Remember Halliburton was voted
most overheted player, nobody would have picked the Pacers to
win the championship. And if they win tonight, they won't
be up three to one. And I think that the
numbers are something like eighty eight percent ninety two percent
(11:23):
winning if they win that game, which by the way,
they have been the much better fourth quarter team. Oklahoma
City is clearly younger and not as good on the road,
and Halliburton right now is once again looking against Milwaukee,
Cleveland and New York controlling the pace of the series.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
Okay, see, by the way, to eight against the spread
on the road. Have not covered one road game in
the postseason. Yet for some reason, everybody's obsessed with their
season long net rating. Everybody's got okay, see today, Colin,
I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Give me the Pacers once again. Teams are thirty seven
to one in the finals when leading three to one.
If Indiana wednesdaight, folks, what a revelation that nobody in
the league, no GM, I mean outside of Indiana's group,
nobody would have picked them, which I guess this is
the NBA Adam Silver wanted.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I know the ratings aren't great. I find it interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
All right, you guys know him into the Shador Sanders story,
OTA's mini camps. So Mary kay Cabot's a really good,
award winning reporter in Cleveland through the years, probably last
ten fifteen years. If she says something or has insights,
I tend to kind.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Of lean on that.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
It's a very loud media market, so there's a lot
of talk radio is big there in sports radio. But
I trust Mary kay Cabot, not that I don't trust others,
but I know her. So she made an observation yesterday
on the quarterback tool that the coaching staff Kevin Stefanski
again a guy I really respect.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I think he's super bright.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Like him, that he is giving Dylan Gabriel and Kenny
Pickett more of the offense. That's why their completion percentage
is down, and that Shadeur Sanders is getting more layups.
They're not putting in quite the install with him. In
her belief, it's an observation, which is, you know, it's
(13:22):
an opinion with information. Is that basically the staff thinks
Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett are closer to starting in
terms of readiness, Shadeur Sanders is number four. Now what
it was kind of fascinating to me, not since Tim
Tebow and Johnny Manziel have we had a rookie quarterback
that people were this divided on. Now. I didn't like Tebau.
(13:45):
I didn't think he had the release of the arm.
I think I was right. I didn't like Manziella. I
didn't think he had the maturity. I was absolutely right.
I think in both instances, Chador is mature enough. He's
not disruptive, and I think his arm and his release
are fine. But it is interesting to watch, you know,
to watch the opinions on this. People are absolutely taking sides.
(14:06):
So now if you're not a shador fan, there are
two things that help your argument. Number One, Brian Dabol
had an interview with Shaduur, and I think Brian's really sharp.
I don't blame the giant problems on Brian Dable. He
may not be able to fix the issues, but I
don't think he's the leader of the issues or the
(14:26):
primary reason they went up to the whiteboard and Shaduur
did not handle it well.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
That would concern me.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
The second thing is Mary kay Cabot report is the
coaches are giving him the easiest route because he's fourth
in readiness. Well, he had a lot of college starts.
What are you waiting for? So I think that's fair.
But there's always been this. You hear this all the
time from business leaders that say trust your got My
dad was an optometrist. I trust my eyes, and my
(14:56):
eyes tell me that Kenny Pickett's not a starting quarterback
in the NFL well, and Dylan Gabriel's too small and
doesn't have the arm to be a starting quarterback. My
eyes tell me that Joe Flacckele right now is the
best quarterback in Shador Sanders is number two. And so
that's what my eyes tell me. And I watched Dylan
Gabriel in college and I thought that's a hell of
(15:17):
a college quarterback at Oklahoma and Oregon. I never thought
of him as a franchise quarterback in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I didn't think he could. I thought he was too small.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So my eyes tell me Shador is bigger, at least
has as good an arm, has es capability, and it's
just a more natural athlete. Here's Kevin Stefanski on Schadeur's
progress so far.
Speaker 8 (15:36):
I said, right behind him, Joe is to my left,
to Shador's left, and to see those two bounced ideas
off of each other is hilarious. You know, Joe will
say a few things and I'll be like, Joe, Chadur
wasn't born. He wasn't born then. So it's just he's
got great energy, great kid, working his tail off, and
(15:58):
he's playing really well too.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
All right, there you go.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
So I'm just telling you what I saw. And I've
said this about Jackson Dart when I watch a guy
in college, and I've done this forever sometimes I turn
the sound down. I just want to watch him, just
a visual watch. That's it, just visual. I don't want
to hear announcers. I don't want any bias. Let me
watch a guy. Did they look and feel like a
(16:21):
starting quarterback in the NFL? Shader Sanders did to me.
Daniel Jones did not to me. Zach Wilson did not
to me.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You know, I.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Marcus Mariota was a very very good college quarterback. I
never quite thought that was gonna work. But with Shadur,
I just my eyes tell me it's gonna work.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Jmack with the news, No, no, no, turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 7 (16:49):
All right, coll let's bust right into it. Game four
is tonight, Okase at Indiana. The focus right now is
on Sga. He did finish for twenty four points in
Game three, but only for assists, had six turnovers, and
Colin I've got some late game numbers I'm gonna give
you on a second that are horrible for him. But
here's what SGA said talking to the media yesterday.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
You gotta suck it up. You have to. There's maximum
four games left in this season, and it's what you
worked the whole season for. It's what you work all
summer for. So to me, the way I see it is,
you gotta suck you gotta suck it up, get it done,
and try to get a win.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
You know, actually about this after Game three, about how
tired he was because they were picking him up full
court and putting him in action when he was on defense.
Colin is, are these m VP numbers on the screen
for a fourth quarter for SGA? Now, one game was
a blowout, but games one and three were close, and
he's done nothing less than an assist in the fourth
quarter in.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
The NBA Finals? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
I was thinking about this about SGA, they or not
when I was watching the game. So let's just I'm
older than you obviously. But if you think about the
dynasties in the NBA, Bill Russell, Kareem, Magic Bird, Shaq,
Kobe Lebron Steph, do I believe SGA historically is as
(18:16):
good as any of those players?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Well, I'm asking you know way Okay?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
That was my point, And so SGA, like the seventies NBA,
is in this space where there's a lot of really
exceptional players. Jason Tatum, SGA but do they look at
the history of dynasties in the NBA. These are like
there's like seven to eight Russell Kareem Michael, Magic Bird,
(18:49):
Steph Lebron. You see what I'm saying here to be
in a dynasty, a multiple championship dynasty, they all have.
And I think Tim Duncan many things. Tim Duncan would
start on the all time starting five at your power forward,
they're all top ten players. Ever, so as I like SGA,
maybe we're just overstating the fact right now is that
(19:12):
the talent in the NBA is so widespread that everybody's
got you know, the top teams all have several good players.
Now I think Jokic is an All timer. Now, so
that could splinter my argument because I do think Jokic
is an All timer, but SGA maybe the leading score,
but we don't put him in the Lebron MJ Bird class.
So as he is struggling here and gets to his
(19:35):
first finals, maybe we just need to pump the brakes
and realize he is an exceptional player.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
He's not an All timer.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
And that's one of the issues I have when people
are like SCA's getting in the mid range, like Kobe. Whoa, whoa,
we're taking a few leaps here.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Somebody clipped off.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
Some ESPN reporter on a podcast saying, if SCA wins
Scoring Title, MVP, Championship and Finals MVP, he's got to
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And I saw it on social media.
Speaker 7 (20:02):
I was like, are you kidding? People are talking about
SGA in the Hall of Fame? Colin. That's and this
is a larger issue with the NBA. That's how desperate
they are to hype up this this series.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Let me ask you, give me a break.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Go to the or even the early days of Kareem
and Russell and Magic and Bird and Lebron and MJ
and Staff and Duncan.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Would you even consider trading them?
Speaker 5 (20:30):
No?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
But SGA was a clipper and ended up in OKC.
Now you could say, well he was a slow guy
to develop, but if you look at the dynasties in
league history, nobody was thinking of trading people and SGA
was a clipper. That doesn't mean I don't think he's great,
that doesn't mean he's an adult. He's a profound, profound
(20:51):
offensive player. We all like him, but it is interesting
we've kind of moved him into an arena because of
stats James Hardens offensive stats through the room.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Let's just I think those numbers that you point out
in the fourth quarter is that is a little alarming
because of what the Pacers have shown. If you throw
a lot of bodies at him, he wears down.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, that's the strategy.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
And by the way, they started to double him because listen,
as a basketball player, if you don't get the ball
for a little bit and then you finally get it,
you're looking to score. And the Pacers knew that, and
they would send Obi Toppin on the double and SGA
kept making bad, poor decisions. Colin and I do have
some bad news for the Pacers fans. They just announced
that Scott Foster is going to be the referee tonight.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You're familiar with this work.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
I see the groan, I see the grimace. Cowhard is
not happy. So some Pacers fans are already pulling the
numbers with Scott Foster Indiana six and thirteen, allegedly that's
their record.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I don't like this at all.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
We know Scott Foster's history.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
What is his history?
Speaker 7 (21:55):
He extends series, that's his joke. He's the extender he
comes in. Hey, Scotty, we got some problems here. We
need you to extend the series. Let me let me
see the fifteen free throws tonight watch.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Let let me defense gouff. Oh please try so he's
the series extender. Yeah, could I not argue? They put
him on the biggest series and when you have a
great series with two great teams, it's not a sweep.
They don't, you don't. They don't put him on a
crappy series. They put him in the best series with
the best matchups of the best teams because he's competent.
(22:26):
And those series, I mean, Michael Jordan, how many final
sweeps did he have?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
None?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So the truth is Foster gets on better series and
they're there. Those series always goes five or six or
seven games.
Speaker 7 (22:39):
Scott Foster's like when the Chiefs don't get called for
a holding penalty for like three Super Bowls. That's why
it's like Scott Foster stuff. I don't like this at all,
but I'm optimistic. All right, let's go to the second story. Colin,
this is a big meatball for you. Jalen hurts your guy,
one of your favorite quarterbacks. That's not six four, Hey,
he's coming off a Super Bowl MVP destroying the she Efs.
(23:01):
Did you know this, Colin? Jalen Hurts is working with
his sixth offensive coordinator in as many seasons. In the
media asked him about it, I have him, will be here.
Speaker 9 (23:11):
There'll be your sixth play caller, going back to Doug
your rookie year.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
Six.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Right, I don't count.
Speaker 10 (23:19):
There's a dynamic of adaptability that you have to be
able to have and find success regardless of what the
leadership looks like, what the voice is, who's in a
quarterback room coaching me, or who's out there calling plays.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, yeah, no big deal.
Speaker 7 (23:35):
Six offensive coordinators in six years. Meanwhile, Patrick Mahomes just
gifted Andy Andy Reid. Yeah, Colin, we had some more
stats for you. In the Jalen Hurts argument. So since
he entered the league in twenty twenty, right, he is
third and wins, third and total touchdowns, and third in
total yards only behind Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes. He's
(23:58):
ahead of Joe Burrow. He's at a Lamar Jackson because
he stays healthy. Jalen Hurts wins and scores touchdowns, and
he's had six offensive coordinators in six years.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
First of all, don't marginalize me that I don't like him.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I do like him.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I think he's like the ninth tenth best quarterback in
the league, maybe eight. So first of all, but if
you were GM tomorrow, your GM, Burrow and Hurts are
on the board, who do you take?
Speaker 7 (24:24):
Well, Okay, I guess I would lean Joe Burrow, but
there's only four guys I would take over Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 11 (24:31):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
That's it.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
I mean, I don't know how you have CJ. Stroud
over Jalen Hurts off one good season and the next
season was in.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Shutting Philadelphia. Philadelphia surrounds Jalen with pretty good players. Offensive
coordinator is my hot take of the day.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
Can you imagine if your radio show had six different
producers in six years and you'd be so frustrated? Final story, Colin, Oh,
here we go Cowboys. Bryan Schottenheimer, Boy, he is very
fired up about this season. He doesn't care about the
seven and ten mark last year. Schottenheimer believes they're gonna
be so good that teams are going to come and
poach their coaching staff.
Speaker 11 (25:07):
In the off season, we look for opportunities for the
younger coaches to get up in front of position groups
and lead meetings and do things, and we give them
projects all the time because we're gonna win. And when
we win, our coaching staff is going to get raided
and people are gonna come after our coaches.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Because we're gonna win.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, I'm going to push back on that. I don't
think that's gonna happen.
Speaker 7 (25:34):
So you know what the joke is going to be
all season. Brian Schottenheimer's initials are bs, and it sounds
like everything coming out of his mouth is pretty much that.
I mean Colin their offensive coordinators a gentleman named Clayton Adams.
He was an offensive line coach in Arizona last year.
Now they're DC. You're probably familiar with a fellow by
the name of eber Fluse who was a good DC
(25:55):
and Indy and.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Then he was a head.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Coach in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And how did that work out?
Speaker 7 (25:59):
I'm spacing.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
No, it's.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I think this is and I think let's go back
to why the Cowboys are in the dilemma they're in.
Mike McCarthy chose to leave the franchise.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
That should not be lost on anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Mike McCarthy left the Cowboys, and he left them in
somewhat of a lurch, which I'm sure Jerry Jones is
bitter about. But just why would Mike McCarthy leave this franchise?
And I don't know what Mike made, but probably seven
eight million a year somewhere about that in a state
would know income tax. Why would he leave? He would
(26:39):
leave because he didn't like what he saw. He knew
Jaden Daniels was going to be a problem, so we
would have a quarterback deficit. And he knows Philadelphia's roster.
He's got about four guys that can start on it. Yeah,
this whole cowboy situation goes back to ask yourself this,
how many fifty plus year old had coach is making
(27:00):
seven eight million dollars a year with a huge brand,
opt to leave? That doesn't happen. That does not happen
in the NFL. This, this situation is much more dire
than anybody wants to acknowledge. In Dallas, Mike McCarthy chose
to leave. Does it work that way? When's the last
(27:21):
time that happened. It's gonna get ugly, dude, It's going
to get ugly in Dallas Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Heard Line News.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
You know, Jmack, I'm surprised you have not inquired about
my dinner last night.
Speaker 7 (27:42):
I didn't want to put you on the spot, big guy.
I will never do it during the commercial break, but uh,
you want to talk to the audience about hanging out
with some big wigs, and she.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Got it's not hanging out with big wigs I had.
I had been trying for the last month to meet
the president of the Chicago Bears, Kevin Warren, and I
did last night. We had a great dinner and had
a lot of people that we really liked or admired
in common, really good friends, people that I really like
and rely on and trust, and he was really good
(28:12):
friends with a lot of them. So it was a really,
really fun dinner. He also brought maybe the best wine
I've ever had in my life. But beyond that, there
was a lot of information garnered last night, and there
was also an interesting discussion. He asked me my opinion
on Caleb Williams and what it's going to take, and
I'll share that with you. Having been in Los Angeles,
(28:35):
he knew I was around the program. We talked about that,
and I'll talk about that next.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern not a em Pacific.
Speaker 12 (28:44):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 8 (28:49):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 12 (28:50):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 13 (28:52):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show, ever get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, you blubber list lame me.
Speaker 12 (29:07):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 13 (29:11):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 12 (29:25):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out Over Promise and also Uncensored by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 13 (29:35):
There you go, over Promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
Tomorrow is Baseball Night in America on Talks, and a
historic rival is at it again as Aaron Judge and
the Yankees take on Rafiel Devers and the Red Sox
or the Padres battle Die in Backs. Check local listings
for the game in your area Tomorrow, seven Eastern on Fox.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Those are Yankee Red Sox games. Last weekend, I think
Fox had ratings on a three year high. So baseball
the renaissance, all the changes Rob Manfred has made, they
are working. So if you've ever been I don't think
I've ever been in this situation. But if you're a
young person, you could be eight years old at twenty
(30:27):
three and you're in survival mode. Maybe you're in an
abusive relationship, you have chaos in your life. It could
be from parents, it could be from siblings. You're in
survival mode. There's not a lot of growth, right, Like
it's hard to grow in chaos. You're just trying to
go day to day, meal to meal, week to week
(30:47):
and survive. And I'll start with that because I had
dinner last night with the president of the Bears, Kevin Warren,
and we were talking a lot about this. He knows
I've been in Los Angeles. He knows I was close
to the program, and you know us is now the
Big ten and Heat now which he used to be
the president of. And we were talking a lot about
Kayleb Williams, and I said, first of all, I said,
(31:08):
he was better than you give him credit for. If
you go last year, remember they fired their head coach,
they fired their offensive coordinator, and their passing game coordinator
became their interim head coach against Dan Campbell, Matt Lafleur,
and Kevin O'Connell. Not great, and yet he set a
Bears rookie quarterback record for passing yards and touchdowns and
(31:30):
didn't have many turnovers.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
But Jaden Daniels was so good.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
There's a comp people comparing, and he didn't look nearly
as good. But what I said last night is here's
what I witnessed. So the first year at USC, Caleb
Williams was absolutely magical. I mean people were saying he
would have been the first guy picked if he had
come out after that year. So we saw a little
bit in Oklahoma. Magical, first year at USC, magical. Well,
(31:57):
the first six games of his second year at USC,
he had twenty one touchdowns in one pick, six and zero.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
He was magical.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So if you go to his first sixteen, seventeen, eighteen
games at USC, I mean this kid was unbelievable. And
then the last six games it was a disaster what happened.
And that's what we talked about, I said, USC, where
Kevin Warren went in college, USC sacked him six times.
They had been doing smoking mirrors on the offensive line
(32:28):
in pass pro pass protection, and it all unraveled against
a really good coach and a really good Notre Dame defense.
And that point forward, Lincoln Riley knew he had the
number one draft pick and didn't want him to get hurt,
so he went into protection mode with Caleb shrinks. The
playbook just doesn't allow him to run certain stuff, and Caleb,
(32:51):
knowing he's going to be the number one pick, thought
I'm in survival mode.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I can get hurt out here.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
And I agreed with him in the quarterback didn't trust
the protection, they shrinked the playbook, and he's just trying to.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Get through the season.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
He then goes to Chicago, ends up with a passing
game coordinator as a head coach. The staff in Chicago
is in survival mode. Caleb Williams is in survival mode,
and there's no growth in survival mode, and so Ben
Johnson's job in Chicago is extreme quarterback makeover. The talent's
(33:26):
all there, but they've got to renovate the house because
Caleb is last six games at USC and last season
along with the Bear staff.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Last season, it's just surviving.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
It's just getting play to play, and he developed some
really bad habits. I did not see those habits first
year at USC. I did not see those habits at
the start of last year. I saw them the last
six games at USC, during and after the Notre Dame game, and.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I saw them all last year.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So a lot of the criticism is ask yourself if
you ever had a bad job, rually abused, bad situation
in life or at work, and you're just trying to
make sure you get to your next paycheck.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Is there a lot of growth? Not really?
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And so to me, the first thing Ben Johnson does smartly,
what does he do? He fixes the O line because
he can see on film that Caleb didn't trust his
USC on line or a Chicago O line or a staff.
So Ben Johnson's all about trust and erasing some really
bad habits that I didn't see in the first like
(34:33):
twenty games at USC And here's Ben Johnson on what
he's seeing.
Speaker 9 (34:38):
Sometimes you get wrapped up when you're in the multiple
play call game, being in a perfect play all the
time for the perfect coverage, that look of the defense.
And really with him, it's it doesn't matter so much
what the play call is. If it's the perfect play
versus firstly, then it's great it's there. And if it's not,
then he's able to find a way to make it work.
(35:00):
Think he's going to play on time when the receivers
present themselves that way, and if they're not there, if
number one or number two is not there, I think
he's got the ability to make it right for us.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
All Right, I want to talk about the Lakers here,
Magic john You know people, Jmack, You've probably taken some
liberties and made fun of Magic Johnson's Twitter accounts. It's
not the most creative, but whatever, But he didn't say
something about Luca Donjic Yesterday on Twitter, he said, Luca,
it's great what you did in Dallas, but there's a
difference in Los Angeles, and we expect our superstars to
lead us to championships. Lebron already did that. Luca, that's
(35:35):
what you have to do.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And he's right.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And if you look at to me, the I would say,
don't take Luke off this before Luca. The eight greatest
Lakers of all time, you and I can go back
on this. They all have kind of one thing in common.
They played real defense. Kareem Abdul Jabbar made five all
NBA teams with the Lakers. Did Magic Johnson, Well, first
(36:01):
of all, they'll had championships. Kareem had five, Magic five,
Kobe five, Shack three Gasol to Jerry West, Wilt, Lebron won.
Those are the eight greatest Lakers to me. But the
other thing is they almost all Now, Magic was not
a great defensive player, but Jerry West was, Kobe was,
Kareem was, Lebron was, and Shaq I think made All
(36:23):
NBA Defense three times. So the eight greatest Lakers pre
Luca all have titles most multiple and they almost all
played defense. And that's the rub here with Luca is
that because he is such I've always said he's a
much better version of Carmelo Anthony. He'll never be in
great shape and never be a great defender, and people go, God,
(36:45):
it's ridiculous. He is so gifted offensively though, that the
media they give him a pass on this. They see
him doing a leg lift. Look, look, look at that
workout regimens.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Pro athlete. They all do that.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And I think with Luca, he's never going to be
a finely tuned and sculpted Adonnas. He'll never be d Wade,
He'll never be Lebron James. It's not who he is.
And he'll also never be Kobe Bryant. As a defensive player,
he's a combination of Steph Curry and Carmelo.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Not his style, but.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
The fact that he's never going to be like Carmelo.
He's gifted offensively, he's never going to be finely tuned.
He's never going to be a great defensive player. It's
not his mindset because offense comes so easy. But what
the Warriors did to get titles with Steph is they
acknowledged what he wasn't, not just the obvious stuff of
(37:50):
what he was. The Warriors were totally honest about Steph.
So they went and got Andre Iguodala, Draymond Green, Play Thompson,
elite defenders. Even Kevin Durant is a willing defender. Can
the Lakers be honest and acknowledge He's never going to
be a great defensive player. He's never gonna be Kobe,
He's never gonna be Lebron. He's never gonna be Jerry
(38:11):
West's defender. Nope, never going to be He's never going
to be d Wade as a defender, not ever. Just
acknowledge it and build around it. That's the question for
the Lakers, because I think what happens is you don't
really see because when a players on your team, you
(38:32):
watch him every night. And Laker fans are like, man,
we stole him. But there's a reason. There's a reason
Dallas moved him. Now, they didn't get enough of a
haul in return, but they were noticing that he wasn't
in great shape, and players that aren't in great shape
like Anthony Davis early in his career. What happens to them?
(38:54):
They get hurt a lot. You ever noticed Lebron and
Brady never got hurt because they're finely tuned. And so
as Luca's injuries increased, miss back to back camps, wasn't
even healthy when they.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Made the trade.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
They were worried that, like he was going to age
really really fast. And you and I know this. You
know Big Ben didn't take care of himself like Brady.
He aged much faster. Aaron Rodgers not obsessed as Brady
has aged much faster. Carmelo Anthony doesn't take care of
himself like Lebron, aged much faster. So Dallas was saying,
(39:30):
he's starting to get hurt and miss camp a lot. Now,
do I think he'll get in better shape? Yes, there's
a microscope on him and the Lakers. It's a bigger
city and a bigger brand. And do I think he'll
be a better defensive player? Yes, But what the Warriors did?
(39:50):
They acknowledged, okay, and the Knicks never did this with Carmelo.
The Warriors acknowledged, we're gonna have to surround this guy
and protect the rim. We're gonna I have to put
great defensive players around him because not all players, you know,
not all players give you both ends. Most great players do.
(40:11):
And almost all the Lakers greats have not only won championships,
they've been elite defenders. Shaq, Kobe West, Kareem was unbelievable,
almost all. I think Kasoul was a pretty good defender.
He was super long. So just something to think about.
It's I thought the tweet by Magic Johnson, often criticized,
(40:33):
was accurate. It is different to be a Laker. It
is if you're a quarterback. You'll be judged differently with
Andy Reid. Why because we know Andy's great. So if
you stink nobody wants to hear about clock management of
the coach, that you've got.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
To be better with Andy Reid. So Jay Max just
just thoughts.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
I mean, I mean, the Laker fans are making big
deals out of workout video for Luca, the workout.
Speaker 7 (40:58):
Video massively over. But sometimes you do this thing where
you put me in a position where I'm gonna say
stuff that people are gonna hate even though it's reality.
So you know, the saying no man is an island.
Nobody can do it themselves, Okay, Kobe won with Shaq
said get him out of here, tried to do it
himself and they couldn't get out of the first round
of the playoffs. Then he gets Scotsolden wins. Kevin Durant
(41:19):
is an awesome player. Awesome player, He's not a leader.
He needed to play with leaders in Golden State to
win titles. So yeah, Luca needs rim protectors, he needs defenders.
Got him Lively and Gafford.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
They were awesome.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
They go to the finals.
Speaker 7 (41:34):
No, nobody does it themselves. Patrick Mahomes wins with Andy Reid.
Andy Reid retires tomorrow. Let's see Mahomes wins another super Bowl. Right,
It's tough, like you can't do it by yourself. And
I just don't like the Luca bashing. You know, that's
my
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Guy bashing at HEA's just contextualization, is how I see it.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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