June 12, 2025 • 42 mins
Colin identifies the major issue the Thunder are struggling with in the NBA Finals after a game 3 loss and dropping to 2-1 in their series against the Pacers
He gives the latest numbers from Shedeur Sanders at Browns mini camp & OTAs and why it appears he's on a path to winning the starting job
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Thursday. We are live.
It is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
May be listening.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thanks for making us with a Thursday part of your day.
The Pacers with thirteen steals, the Pacers with eleven blocks?
Who is the great defensive team in this finals? I
can't tell the difference. I have no idea this coot.
You got ourselves jmek. We got ourselves a little NBA
Finals drama.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I think somebody on this show gave out Taser's money
line yesterday. I don't remember, you know, but we loved Indiana.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
I think they're at control of the series the way
they locked up ASDA. Oh what it?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So we have found O KC's kryptonite. You send this
young team on the road and that defense isn't nearly
as dominant, and they make more mistakes nineteen turnovers, and
they don't get to the free throw line. The Thunder
or an average team four and four in the playoffs
(01:33):
when their star SGA has eight free throw attempts for fewer.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
They're five hundred. That's all they are.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And remember we told you that Celtics were a better
road team because they live on the three. You don't
need the whistle when you're shooting threes. The three travels well.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
OKC does not travel well. And they're young rotational players.
And we know this, We've told you this.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
You know this.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Young rotational players and bench players like Indiana's are always
better at home than they are on the road. And
they get a little tight, they don't get the home cooking.
They commit a few more turnovers. OKC is just okay.
Through the last three series, they're two and four on
the road. And because the Thunder didn't play a lot
(02:18):
of close games. Remember they won by an average of
twelve point nine points a game. The downside of that
is they didn't play a lot of close games. And
the best clutch team in the NBA is Indiana. They're
nine and one in the playoffs in clutch games. So
in close, tight games, the last six minutes of the
game last night, the Thunder had one field goal. They
(02:41):
weren't even good at the free throw line. So their
youth and their depth is a huge, huge edge. During
the regular season, right, they just have huge energy. And
the regular season it's not about preparation. Sometimes it's a
back to back. You're watching film in the locker room
as you put your uniform. It's about bodies. It is
(03:02):
about energy, and okay, sees the best in the league
at that. But the playoffs, everybody's equally arrested and you
face the same team over and over and over, and
Rick Carlisle is sitting there thinking, Okay, I'm starting to
figure this team out a little bit. I'm starting to
figure this team out. Late in the fourth quarter, it
(03:22):
was Oklahoma City that was gassed. Indiana was getting great looks,
getting great looks. They shot fifty two percent for the game.
So we have ourselves a series now. I mean, think
about the regular season. The only teams that have ever
won as many games is the Thunder in the regular
season are the Early Warriors with Stephan Clay, the best
team ever. Michael Jordan's Bulls and the Wilt Elgin Baylor,
(03:46):
Jerry West Lakers. To go, you gotta go way back.
Those are the only teams that were ever better. And
they are built perfectly for the regular season, and they're
a very good playoff team and they may win the
finals games and Okac, but today they are mortal. They
have a kryptonite that youth on the road allows one
(04:08):
hundred and seventeen points a game. That's not all time stuff.
Here's SGA after.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
They were aggressive.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
They were they were hiring the picker rolls. They really were,
just like courtes said, more aggressive, more forceful. Yeah, we
gotta starts with me, but we got to apply that
pressure back.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Especially if you want to.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Beat a team like that on the road, you gotta
be the more forceful team for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
All right, let's talk Pacers, and they are and we've
said this, they're a lot of fun to watch. I
thought they'd beat Milwaukee. I didn't think they'd beat Cleveland.
I didn't know about the Knicks, and I took Okac
and six. I gotta tell you, they have so many
different types of players. Forget the fact that seven different
(05:01):
pacers are averaging double figures in the finals. Forget that,
but I mean they have They can put crazy length
on the floor. Halliburton's the longest point guard in the league.
Put on the floor with Obi Toppin, Siakam and Miles Turner,
They're one of the longest teams. You can go small
and quick, TJ McConnell, Naysmith. They got small, quick guys.
They got long guys. They have ascending players. How about
(05:23):
Ben Mathern. How about that guy? How about that young guy?
Got a little Westbrook right with a little more refinement.
He was a hockey and football player in Canada. He
goes to Arizona one year in college dominates next year
he's gonna be one of the best players in the league.
You're going to talk about Cooper Flag and that kid's
gonna give you twenty two a night. He has wild
confidence and per minute, I think he may be the
(05:45):
Pacers leading score per minute. So they've got ascending players,
veteran players like Siakam, rim protectors. There are so many
levers for Rick Carlyle to pull that are unselfish. Don't
see ego. They have the requisite three point shooters. I
mean last night they had eleven blocks. They had like
(06:08):
double the steals. I was saying this on my podcast
after is that they stole about eight points last night
on like inbounds plays or offensive rebound or a steal
or a block. They were just stealing points throughout the game.
And remember, this is a really bad Here's here's something
that's really bad news for Oklahoma City. So Oklahoma City
(06:32):
played the fewest clutch time games in the league, right,
and all the pressures on Oklahoma City because they're the favorite,
and they're one of the youngest teams in the league,
and the Pacers are the best clutch time team probably
in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
That's a bad combo.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
A young team with more pressure that hasn't played a
lot of close games against the best close game point
guard and team in the league. And if you go
look at the by quarter scoring, Oklahoma City's best quarters
the first, the Pacers is the fourth.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Which one would you take as a head coach? Now?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Game sevens and OKC, But the pressure is all on
the Thunder. The best thing they got going for him.
They're at home and they're good at home. But last
night I thought Indiana got better looks, they played more efficiently,
they were less sloppy, they were more composed. They were
the much better team at the end of the first
(07:34):
half and at the end of the game. Remember the
Pacers got to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. We
forget this. We paid so much attention to the Celtics
and can Denver get back? And we're always talking Lakers
Kyrie Irving and Luca. This team got to the Eastern
Conference Finals last year, but they weren't very good defensively.
Now they're much better defensively with the same great pace
(07:57):
and all these ascending players like Halliburton's getting better. You
can see this, Nasmith. I mean, like the Sea Hawkins
has always been good, right, but this is a team
that's getting better and has more confidence not only year
to year, but series the series.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And here's their coach after.
Speaker 7 (08:16):
This is the kind of team that we are. You know,
we need we need everybody to be ready. It's not
always going to be exactly the same guys that are
stepping up with scoring and stuff like that. But you know,
this is this is how we got to do it,
and we got to do it as a team, and
and you know, we got to make it as hard
(08:36):
as possible on them.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It really matters that Rick Carlisle's a good coach, because
I don't care if it's football, basketball, hockey, or baseball.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
The better the manager, the better the coach.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
They're better at pulling the right levers, Eric Spolstra, Steve Kerr,
they just the more levers you can get them to
pull in a series. So, and I also think we're
overstating it's it's bad on me, but I think I
kind of felt like going into the series, you know, like,
OKC He's got a better roster.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I'm not so sure of it. I'm not so.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I think Indiana plays were to good defense, and I
think they have so many different types of players, small, quick, long, offensive,
I mean Halliburton, Obi Toppin, Miles Turner. This team at
eleven blocks last night. So I you know, we're all
(09:26):
talking about what the Knicks are gonna do and wait
till Tatum's back with the Celtics, and who are the
Lakers going to land?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I look at Carlisle an ascending roster, all sorts of shapes,
styles and sizes, and leverged a pull, got ourselves some
NBA drama, J mag.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
This was fun. Last night was fun.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And I'll tell you what if you start looking at
what Indiana does in the fourth quarter this.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Year, there was a video that was out.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It was I was introduced to it probably about three
weeks ago, and they showed Halliburton, who you were on
like two and a half years ago, but they showed
Halliburton every shot he took, like a minute or less
left in the basketball game to lead er tie.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Guy was like twelve of thirteen.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Like there's always been this feeling among the analytic mavens
that there's no such thing as clutch shooters, like it
all works out with a math.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's not true.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
But when you watch Indiana and Halliburton play, that guy
is so good and so confident in big clutch moments.
At some point we have to acknowledge Halliburton is now
one of the NBA's elite closers. It's not always scoring,
but from three point shooting to driving and dishing, he
(10:39):
is one of the league's best closers.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
He was tremendous. I'm surprised you did ten minutes and
we really did not.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Go after SGA, the MVP, the free throw merchant, who
somehow escaped criticism for a fourth quarter when he had
one turnover in one basket, Colin. They wore him down.
Seven different defenders on SGA. And if you notice when
the Pacers were running offense, they were attacking him the
same way that Pacers attack Brunson. Remember, Brunson was just
(11:06):
getting abused. They went at Sga. He had nothing left
in the tank.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Colin.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I don't know how they the thunder changed this.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I'm shocked that the line is OKC minus six for
Game four on the road. They haven't covered a road
game this postseason, and eight against the spread.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
How is OKAC favored here? I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, I mean, it's pretty clear if SGA doesn't get
to the line, they are an average playoff team on
the road, and overall they're four and four when he's
not getting to the line over eight times, so that's
sort of the key if he does not get the
home whistle.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And when you and I.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Talked about this yesterday on the show, we both liked
Indiana and our takeaway was, and you saw it last night.
Bench players and young players at home are unbelievable. Indiana's
bench last night, it's one of the great bench. The
second quarter was insane. They just they put starters on
the bench brought the bench guys in and they were
(12:00):
dominating Okac. Indiana's bench is not gonna look like that
in the road, and Okac's bench isn't his dynamic on
the road.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So this is something with stars.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Usually you get your points from your Halliburn's gonna be
good usually all the time. Yokitches Giannis is. But those
rotational and bench guys. Home is a different environment completely.
They get confidence, they get.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Energized, and the Pacers win this in six because if
they win, they got to win game four. I don't
think they're taking two of three from Okac on the road,
right they get They're not gonna win game seven and
Oka Sell they'll get run off the court.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I took okay See in six, I would adjust it
to Okac in seven. I think they're gonna be tough
to beat at home in a game seven.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
And PACER's got to win this in six. That's why
they got to win game four. Ben Matherin, by the way,
what a stud? So you call him Russell Westbrook last night?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
No? He does?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
He?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
But oh no?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So I went and I looked up his Wikipedia stuff.
He was a hockey guy and a football guy in
a basketball guy he goes to Arizona, is a dominant
college player, and you know he's a one and done guy,
but he's a guy that what he's on the floor
is just instant energy for them. I mean you can see, folks,
you can talk about all these players. We're gonna pay
attention to Cooper Flag next year and Wemby and the
(13:11):
young players. This kid is dynamic man. He is caught.
He was like that in colle I boughted him like
twice in college. Super confident player.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And he's confident defending SGA Game one, in Game three, he.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Did a great job. He's like a physical dude.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
You can't just push him off like SGA normally does.
I'm all about the series, Colin.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
It's fun.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You are now entering the No Bull Zone sponsored by
Credible Great Rape, None of the Bull storytime, Uncle Colin. So,
there were these two scientists back in like the sixties
for three M, the company three M, and they were
trying to create this super strong adhesive for the aerospace industry.
(14:03):
But even though they're scientists and smart guys, they ended
up creating a much weaker adhesive that was very removable,
and that became post it notes, which are probably more
important anyway. But the point being is they stumbled into
wild success. And I think that's what the Cleveland Browns
have done. The coach and the GM did not want to.
(14:25):
They didn't want to draft Shador Sanders, and they did
in the fifth round, two rounds after Dylan Gabriel, and
he's crushing it. He's their best quarterback in camp, calling
calling you, he's facing backups, he's throwing to him as well.
Sometimes it's stumbling to success. It's not a straight line.
It's not linear. Brady with the Patriots brought Purty to
(14:47):
the Niners, Kurt Warner to the Rams. It's not always
a straight line. So the staff because they picked and
the GM because they picked Dylan Gabriel third round and
Shaudu Her fifth, they're given Dylan Gabriel most of the
first team reps, but not all of them. Now, not
all of them. The coaching staff cannot deny what's happening.
(15:10):
And here's the difference. Let's Forget Flacco for a second.
He'll probably start, and Kenny Pickett's not the future. Let's
concentrate on the two kids. Shaduur Sanders is thirty four
of forty four, nine touchdowns, one pick, the most accurate
quarterback easily in camp seventy seven percent. Dylan Gabriel is
(15:32):
the least of the four accurate quarterbacks fifty four percent. Okay,
so I'm sorry. They're all thrown to the same guys,
same protection, same coaching staff, and that's why you got
to be careful about Dylan Gabriel. If you just talk
about Shadur Sanders and Dylan Gabriel, they did not have
similar college experiences. Kay Shaduur Sanders has Travis Hunter and
(15:55):
a bunch of non Sunday players. Dylan Gabriel went from
powerhouse Oklahoma to powerhouse Oregon and Oregon. Outside of Ohio, State,
Texas and Georgia, Oregon had the most guys drafted. They
had ten guys drafted. NFL receivers left tackles right, so
so Dylan Gabriel's playing with pros pros everywhere. Receiver rams
(16:18):
drafted their tight end, the receivers they're left tackle pros everywhere,
great staff, one of the highest paid staffs in the country.
Shadur Sanders had Travis Hunter who got doubled and tripled.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
So it's just like you and I.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You can't compare a Yale GPA to a community college GPA.
But if you give them a standardized test or they're
taking a bar to be an attorney, Okay, now it's fair.
So that's why I think I don't want to hear
about what Dylan Gabriel did in college. Shadur didn't have
that experience. The OTA in the mini camps. That's the
standardized test. That's same guys, same staff, same calls. One
(16:58):
guy's complete and almost eighty percent, one guy fifty four percent.
And and you know, again, I go back to what
the scouts say, like lancerline. If you go back and
look at the scouting report, you know they acknowledge that
Shador didn't have a great arm, but Dylan had size, arm, release, mobility,
as all sorts of questions. So I don't care that
(17:20):
he dominated it.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Oregon.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
You know, it's like it's like a lot of quarterbacks
crush at Oregon. They've got great been a powerhouse for
twenty plus years Schador Sanders on just you know, humbly
trying to work his way up the depth chart.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
You could view things as you're not getting reps in
a negative way, or you could view it as, Okay,
when's my time to get out there. Let's be proactive
and let's get warm, let's get going. So there's no
excuses because when you get out there, nobody cares on
they reps you got whenever you get in the game.
Nobody cares if you took a snap before you know that.
They care about Everybody cares about production. So that's the
(18:00):
main thing. When you get out there, you got to
be able to produce.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Sounds like a sounds like a franchise quarterback to me,
like what I'm hearing. But again, same plays, same receivers,
same tight ends, same protection. Put that graph up again,
the numbers of the numbers. Shadeur is crushing it thirty
(18:27):
four or forty four. His balls aren't hitting the ground.
Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
No, no turn on the news. This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I'm not taking the bay, buddy. Let's go to Justin.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Herbert Colin the last time we saw him play an
NFL game, he threw four interceptions against the Texans, the
worst game of his career.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Essentially, the Chargers enter.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
The season looking for their first playoff.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Win since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Oh my gosh, Herbert is trying to move on from
that poor performance.
Speaker 9 (19:00):
Just like every other loss, you know, you take a
look at what you did wrong, what you did you
know right, and you try and improve. And if I
spend any more time, you know, worrying or focusing on it,
you know, a loss like that, I think I'm doing
a disservice to my teammates. You know, obviously he didn't
know the way we wanted to. Like I said at
the end of the year, begin to move on, and
you have to take a look at what you did wrong,
be honest with yourself, be critical, but you can't let
(19:22):
it take up too or few times.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Eleven wins win the division Chiefs sort of the wild
card team, and Broncos a wild card team as well.
I feel pretty strongly about that take.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
I don't disagree.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
They were like a year ahead of schedule anyway, right,
Nobody expecting them to get to the playoffs in year
one with Harball, and they upgraded the receiving corps added
Trey Harris. Mike Williams is back. You know, the running
back room is formidable with Nazia Harris and the kid
out Hampton from North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I think Harrorball's Harbaugh's history is by year two, it
feels like a horrorball team. You're one at Michigan, You're
trying to catch up on roots from Brady Hope or
or you know year one in San Francisco. Year two
in Jim Harbaugh's career, usually the running back room is settled.
He's got his O line fixed, the culture has been built.
(20:12):
So I think I think year or two, I can
tell you in the building there's a feeling they're gonna
make a significant leap from last year.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I don't doubt that at all. And I just anybody
who's like, whoa was Herbert any good?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Just go look up Peyton mannings like first four playoff failures.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Okay, he started his career going to the playoffs and
they just flopped. He could not get a win. So
just relaxed. Herbert's gonna be fine. Next story Colin is
Saquon Barkley.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Last month, Saque talked about flirting with retirement. I don't
know if you remember that, But he has since backtrack,
saying he doesn't plan on retiring anytime soon. Instead, Saque
has his eyes on, said on becoming one of the
greatest running backs of all time.
Speaker 10 (20:49):
The thing that drives me is the same thing that
has been driven me since I was a little kid,
and I've said it since I've gone to the league.
And I don't meet it in the Hurrogan way. On
to be the best running backs of a play, or
at least one of the best running backs have a play.
I don't think there's actually a way you can prove
who's the best. But that's always been a motivation, you.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Know, to be the best running back of all time
or the best receiver, you have to have iconic moments.
And when Barkley jumped over that player backwards, like that's
never been done by a running back. I mean, that's
what Barry Sanders has. He has two or three of
these iconic moves, like Barry Sanders has two or three.
Walter Payton's got a few of those, Marcus Allen's got
(21:33):
a handful, Earl Campbell does, Bo Jackson does, Marshawn Lynch
that beast mode run against the Saints in the playoffs
in Seattle. Like to be an all time running back.
It is such a unique position, all shapes and sizes
and styles that you have to have iconic moments. I
think that when he leapt over the defender backwards, it
(21:58):
was like, oh, okay, that's never done by a running back.
I do think he has a chance to be two
or three more years in Philly, in a few more
of those. I think he's in a very, very rarefied air.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
I don't think it's been done by anyone. I mean,
they're putting it on the cover of a video game.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
It's a crazy I'm looking up lists of the best quarterback.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
The best running backs.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Ever.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
This isn't like an NBA discussion where you can stack
hey all, NBA MVP Finals, all that stuff. I don't
know a lot of them have Jim Brown number one.
Now I wasn't born. I don't even know if you.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Were it was, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
It's tough for me to put a guy from the
nineteen fifties early sixties on the list.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
But Barry Sanders is considered up there.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Walter Payton, Emmett Smith, Ledanian, Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Marshall Falk.
I certainly think say Kwaider could be a top ten all.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That The best running back I've ever seen, I've said
it multiple times was Walter Payton. You got the shiftiness.
I would say, pound for pounding. He may be one
of the strongest players in league history. Walter Payton was
insanely strong. I think Barry Sanders is second. And then
I think there's about twelve guys, which includes, by the way,
a healthy Christian McCaffrey. When Christian McCaffrey's healthy, he could
(23:05):
be a slot receiver in the league.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
I let me ask you, you remember this guy, Thurman
Thomas from the nineties Buffalo very good, did very good.
He was like receiving, rushing like Saquon better than him.
It's really tough to quantify these things. And Saquon said
that in his quote, like, I don't know how you
judge that. It's some of it is subjective, but I
think Saquon certainly can be a top ten all time,
maybe top five.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Adrian Peterson's although we had Peterson could fumble, it wasn't
great out of the backfield as like you know, catching
the ball, but in terms of raw speed and power.
I think Gadrian Peterson's probably one of the top five
I've ever seen play.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Helped Saquon's argument that he goes to the Eagles and
they win the Super Bowl and he rushes for two
thousand yards. Right, that matters, kind of like Terrell Davis
and John Elway. Final story, Colin, let's go to the
Pittsburgh Steelers. This is interesting. So Arthur Smith is the
OC and historically they've been a run first offense. But
when you get DK, me Cafe and Aaron Rodgers, do you.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Still run it?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Well, here's Arthur Smith talking about merging those offensive philosophies.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
You'd love to be more balanced.
Speaker 11 (24:08):
You'd like obvious kind of how you want to attack
this defense where you think there are stakes? Waitis ces
aar I mean that's the game has played every Sunday.
And obviously, as your roster evolves, I mean, obviously we
didn't bring Aaron in here and signed DK for all
that money to.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Go run the wishbone.
Speaker 11 (24:22):
So you know, you try to play in the strengths
of your team.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We'll see six years as a coach or a coordinator,
one top ten offense. I'm gonna try to be I'm
gonna be fair, fair minded, but I I'll stick with
my eight and nine, nine to eight. I think it's
gonna be turbulent and rocky.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Anybody who thinks Aaron Rodgers is going to Pittsburgh to
take his cues from Arthur.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Smith, Hey, we're doing this. You got another thing coming. Okay,
that's not how Aaron Rodgers operates. Yeah, that's that's gonna
be an interesting Breer.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Was the one who told us about the six months ago.
He's like, yeah, I don't know how much sense that makes, Like,
is that gonna work? Arthur Smith prickly guy. I'm not
going to talk about him off the field, but historically
has classed with coaches and quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
We'll see, Aaron, We'll see.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Now, Arthur is very strong willed. Arthur Smith is a
very strong willed coordinator.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I'll just leave it at that. Jmack with the News.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So we were talking about this this morning about the
New York Knicks and Charles Barkley kind of eviscerated the
Knicks for their lack of a Tom thibodeaut plan. They
fired Tibbs, who's a really good coach, a bit of
a grinder.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Not you know, he.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
You know, he's kind of got a Mike McCarthy feel
to him, like, you know, he's a competent coach, but
you know he's not the sexiest higher. And the Knicks,
you know, they fire him and don't have a replacement.
But it is interesting. John Calipari's name came up yesterday.
You know, James Dolan love stars. He's gone after Jason
Kidd and Hemaya Duka and Quinn Snyder and Billy and
(26:01):
now you're hearing Jay Wright. It's a lot of star coaches.
And we were talking about this New York sports teams.
There are more bad decisions between the Jets and the
Giants and the Knicks firing Thibodau with no plans, the
Brooklyn Nets, the deck silly Kyrie Harden kd mess, the
(26:22):
Mets in twenty twenty three had the biggest payroll, could
not make the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
And I think a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I've always wondered, why do New York GMS owners and
teams make such awful decisions? A lot of smart people
in New York, and my take is it's a very
impatient market because it's got a very loud, relentless, high
volume media and gms and owners listen to it. You know,
(26:49):
newspapers have died in this country, right, but not in
New York, where you've got The Times and the Daily
News and the New York Post. It's still a great newspaper.
Town sports talk, it is still wfan. It's a loud,
relentless opinionated media, and it becomes I think gms overreact,
(27:10):
and I think owners listen to it.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And I mean in like Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I mean, I can only think in the last seven
eight years one move that was a head scratcher, and
that was rab Polinka signing Westbrook. Now Westbrook worked for Denver,
it did not work for the Lakers, and they quickly
backed out of that. It did not work. But that's
an exception. It's almost shocking if New York doesn't screw
things up. And so when I look at what the
(27:37):
Knicks created when James Dolan was distracted building the sphere
in Vegas or managing it or you know, overseeing it,
they became very patient and very dedicated to their vision
and their plan, and then they just blew it up.
With no backup plan. It's like, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Hello?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I mean it was a very clear culture. Crash the boards,
play defense, Villanova pro style and get the ball to
Jalen Brunson, one great shot maker. Crash the boards, be physical.
It had a Villanova feel to it. Ones in Philly,
Ones in New York. That's what it felt like. And
(28:18):
they blow it up. Now it's just you might as
well be the two thousand and three Knicks, two thousand
and eight Knicks. It's just chaos. There's no vision, no plan.
Tibbs was the culture creator. And again that doesn't mean
Tibbs is the most creative coach. That's not I don't
think he's the most creative coach. But I didn't look
(28:41):
at their issues as a coaching issue. I looked them
as personnel. They've got a lot of guys who are
now increasingly expensive with holes. Brunson doesn't defend, either does
Cat Robinson, doesn't score Michale Bridges as hot and cold
as a shooter. So here's Charles Barkley from NBA TV
last night hammering the Knicks who fire a coat and
a culture creator and have no plan afterwards.
Speaker 12 (29:04):
The Knick's got to be the stupidest damn people in
the world who like you, don't find no good coach
like that and don't have a plan. I mean it's
Tip did a hell of a job. Obviously something's going
on now, but you don't have a plan now the
three coaches turn you down. You gotta have a plan, man,
(29:25):
And they don't have a plan now. I mean, I
don't know what the hell they're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
You know what it reminds me of Tibbs. Reminds me
a little bit of Dan Campbell. Dan Campbell. I mean
the Parcels guys, the Jimmy Johnson guys, got loyalists, and
there are guys all over the NBA that love Tibbs.
You don't have any championships, but they go to these
losing franchises with big brands. I mean, the Lions have
been planned on Thanksgiving forever. It's a big brand. One
(29:52):
of the first teams you go back to. You know,
Bobby Lane, I think that's who it was. You know,
the Stafford years. The Lion have had Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson.
There've been great, great players, right and same with the Knicks.
But you're always kind of thinking they underachieve as a franchise,
and then they bring in a culture creator. You know,
(30:14):
you don't have to love Dan Campbell, the guy that
team plays harder than any team in the league, and
Tims's team practice harder and played about as hard as
any team in the league. If you got rid of
Dan Campbell and didn't have a replacement, be like, Okay,
you don't have to love Dan. He may not be
the best schematic coach, and he's not, but if you
take Dan out, you change the culture. Tim's is not
(30:39):
the greatest schematic, offensive creative guy, but if you take
him out.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Your culture's gone. And that's what.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Made the Knick special, and it's actually what makes along
with their offensive line, it's what makes the Lions special.
I remember Jay McK and I talked about this about
three years ago. They weren't winning yet and they lost
the game. I think they lost at home. Detroit did
to Baltimore, a very good Ravens team Lamar Jackson, and
I remember thinking their defense was awful. Detroit's defense was
just awful, And I'm thinking, this team plays so hard
(31:08):
and they're so flawed. Jared Goff was finally getting a
little time to throw, they'd hit an offensive lineman and
you're like, man, they are running through a wall. For
Dan Campbell, it was a personnel issue. And I think
the Knicks is more of a personnel issue than anybody
wants to admit. They've got a lot of lobsided players. Runson,
you know, he's taking the air.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Out of the ball.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Can't really defend, but he's a great shot maker. And
Karl Anthony Towns wildly skilled. Can't get him on the
floor defensively against the pick and roll. And Robinson everybody
loves Robinsonbody's useless late in the game offensively. So you
have all these guys with you know, limitations and ceilings,
and we're blaming tips. It would be like blaming Dan
Campbell a few years ago. Like I you know, somebody
(31:52):
told me this not long ago. When you hire an
NFL coach, you occasionally will get a guy like Andy
r who's a CEO and is good with schemes.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
But that's rare.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
You're hiring CEOs, that's what an NFL coach is. Occasionally
you get Shanahan who's got his running theory and he's
a CEO. McVeigh, but you're really hiring CEOs. Big broad
guys aren't necessarily on the headset like Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy
Johnson's a CEO. He's a walk around coach. He's watching
(32:26):
the receiver coach and the offensively, he's a walk around coach.
That's really what you're hiring. Sometimes you get lucky and
you get both. But there's a lot of these culture guys.
Don't ask culture guy to always be brilliant scheme guy.
That's not what Vrabel is. That's not what Dan Campbell is.
It's not that Vrabel doesn't know schemes. But you know,
(32:47):
Jim Harbaugh is a great example. Hartball's maybe the best
culture guy in football in America in the last twenty years.
He's an unbelievable culture guy. You know, Belichick was great defensively,
didn't know about offense. Brady makes fun of his offensive
knowledge or lacked thereof. He's a culture guy. So I
just I don't I don't get it. But I do
(33:08):
think that the New York media is loud, it's present,
it's it's opinionated, it's relentless, and I think it changes opinions.
GMS and owners listen to it and make really bad decisions,
and this was a really bad decision. At least have
somebody in the office in the waiting if you're gonna
get rid of them. You gotta have a deal. Basically
(33:28):
an hour done email. Aduka is at the airport and
can come in for the press conference. You gotta have
some plan.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern, not a em Pacific.
Speaker 13 (33:39):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 13 (33:45):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get to.
Speaker 14 (33:48):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promised in things we ever
have time for. Yeah, you blubber Liam and me.
Speaker 13 (34:02):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 14 (34:06):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships and if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time. It will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 13 (34:20):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 14 (34:30):
There you go, over Promising. Remember you could see it
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen over Promised with
Covino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Rachel Nichols top of Next Hour. So ja this this
headline came down today DOBNBA television ratings down more than
fifty percent. We should probably do a study on that.
I'm not I'm not sure why that would be. Oh
oh wait, since Caitlin Clark's injury, okay, hopefully this is
(35:12):
good news that she's coming back. And it's a reminder,
ladies of the WNBA, she is the rising tide. This
is not fever games just down. This is league ratings
since she got hurt, down fifty five percent, so she
is essentially the sun at the beach. If she's not out,
(35:33):
nobody else is. And by the way, there are great
young players. Paige Becker's dropped like thirty five, she was
banged up. She's back Asia Wilson. It's not a lack
of talent. Popularity and production are hard to measure. Remember
how popular John Daly was on the tour smoking and
(35:54):
sixteen diet coke today. He was wildly more popular than
every golfer not named Tiger Woods. Alan Iverson got to
one finals. He was wildly popular. He had cultural significance.
I'm not here to tell you why. And Caitlin Clark,
like Iverson's a great player, but she equals ratings, revenue
and relevance and those three things. The WNBA is dying
(36:17):
for so pro sports. I mean, even our business is
an attention economy, and some people just get attention and
everybody's trying to grab their slice of.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Equity or space.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
So be nice WNBA players to the lady that currently
has her leg up, because she's giving the league a
leg up. Fifty five percent, you know what that is.
That's Jordan leaving the NBA. That's what it is. Jordan
left the NBA. They lost fifty percent of their numbers.
(36:52):
I mean, when Tiger left golf, the Masters in the
US Open were still popular.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
This is different.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
This is kind of unprecedented territory. And again, you don't
have to be the best player to be the most popular.
I've said this before. I got nothing against Taylor Swift.
Very pleasant, seems adorable, talented, I'm not disputing it, but
her music doesn't move me. But I mean, I'm watching
the guy that won the Oscar last year. I think
he won like his second Oscar in acting. He doesn't
(37:24):
move me right Like whoever whatever moves you. I can't explain. Generally,
there is production behind popularity to some degree, and Caitlin's great,
but like it's time to get over the angst. Like
she's changed the league. She doesn't show up. It's like
the sun going behind the cloud at the beach. It's
(37:44):
not the same environment. You just got to come to
terms with it. By the way, I saw this little
this little note talking about Saquon Barkley. Remember a couple
of years ago, people were freaking out, mostly the young media.
Nobody's running backs aren't getting paid. This is outrageous, and
we said time out. Running backs have value, always have,
(38:07):
always will especially for young quarterbacks. The great thing about
a running back, I'd actually rather have a great running
back than a great wide receiver, because, especially if you
have a quality quarterback and a quality team, you're going
to be at the end of games in the last
couple of drives trying to get first downs and eat
(38:29):
the clock. Also, running backs are not affected by weather.
A great Tyreek hill is wonderful, But do you have
a quarterback that can throw it deep? Who's really throwing
it deep in January and February if your plan outdoors
in windy weather. Running backs are all weather tires. Okay,
you get them, it doesn't matter. And they also are
great at preserving leads. Also, I don't have to have
(38:51):
my quarterback do anything but turn around and hand you
the ball. So running backs were never going anywhere. And
another example of that, Sakwan Barkley just unseated Patrick Mahomes
as the leader in merchandise sales officially licensed products sold.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
The leader in the NFL is a running back.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Now after him, it's a quarterback, a quarterback, a quarterback,
a quarterback, a quarterback, a pass rusher or receiver. Do
you notice do you notice America's team. How many Cowboy
players do you see in that top bus seven?
Speaker 10 (39:28):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Oh, they got one in the top fifteen. One.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
We've been on this now, J Mack for two years.
The Cowboys are not America's team, and a lot of
that is TV ratings and merchandise sales. They got one
guy in the top fifteen and their quarterback is nowhere
to be seen in the top twenty.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
Well, Eagles have two in the top three. Should they
be Americas? It's just kidding. Obviously that is interesting to
Detroit Lions in there.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah, that's not a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Wow, this is certainly interesting. Coward, where's my guy, brock Perdy?
He's not moving merch.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Whereas he? Uh oh, I think you have to be
six to two to be on this list. Sorry, I
what a cheap shot.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Cheap I was joking.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
No, blow, coward.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Oh no, no, he's probably somewhere. He's probably eighteen twenty
something like that. I notice this is what's great about
the NFL. Look at the market sizes. Got Cincinnati guy,
a Green Bay guy, a Kansas City guy, another Kansas
City guy, Buffalo guy, Detroit guys.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
That that is the name that's not on there.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Let me just double check before I sound like an idiot.
Lamar Jackson, where's he got here? On the show yesterday?
I say, And he's the best player in the league.
He's got what's going on.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
It's it's really funny. I that was my first person
I looked for was Lamar. He is not on it now.
I mean justin Herbert, who basically hides from the media.
He's in the LA market. He's not on an either, Lamar.
Lamar's had so much success, I don't I can't really
explain Lamarrow. I've said this before, Lamar. Like I like
(41:05):
watching the NFL. There are very few players in the NFL.
When their side of the ball is on the field,
I can't turn the game off. He's electrifying, come on,
a totally electrifying talent. He's not as good, but I
think he's more electric than Mahomes in terms of just
(41:26):
a television product.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
I don't keep any argument there, of course. I mean, listen,
let's be real.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
The Chiefs made the jump to light speed when Travis
Kelsey started daily dating Taylor Swift.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
They were not even close to America's You would.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Admit that, right, And then as soon as Taylor Swift
enters the chat boom. They're on like every channel, streaming TV, primetime, everything,
So you know, this Lamar thing's puzzling.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
It deserves further, now, further in depth probiming by you.
He's a quarterback, he wins a lot, and he's dynamic.
Why has he not in the top fifteen.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
That's weird.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I don't have an I don't have an idea. That's
that's really interesting. Hour two Rachel Nicholls h's to her
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go. It is a Thursday. We are live.
It is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
May be listening.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thanks for making us with a Thursday part of your day.
The Pacers with thirteen steals, the Pacers with eleven blocks?
Who is the great defensive team in this finals? I
can't tell the difference. I have no idea this coot.
You got ourselves jmek. We got ourselves a little NBA
Finals drama.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I think somebody on this show gave out Taser's money
line yesterday. I don't remember, you know, but we loved Indiana.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
I think they're at control of the series the way
they locked up ASDA. Oh what it?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So we have found O KC's kryptonite. You send this
young team on the road and that defense isn't nearly
as dominant, and they make more mistakes nineteen turnovers, and
they don't get to the free throw line. The Thunder
or an average team four and four in the playoffs
(01:33):
when their star SGA has eight free throw attempts for fewer.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
They're five hundred. That's all they are.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And remember we told you that Celtics were a better
road team because they live on the three. You don't
need the whistle when you're shooting threes. The three travels well.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
OKC does not travel well. And they're young rotational players.
And we know this, We've told you this.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
You know this.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Young rotational players and bench players like Indiana's are always
better at home than they are on the road. And
they get a little tight, they don't get the home cooking.
They commit a few more turnovers. OKC is just okay.
Through the last three series, they're two and four on
the road. And because the Thunder didn't play a lot
(02:18):
of close games. Remember they won by an average of
twelve point nine points a game. The downside of that
is they didn't play a lot of close games. And
the best clutch team in the NBA is Indiana. They're
nine and one in the playoffs in clutch games. So
in close, tight games, the last six minutes of the
game last night, the Thunder had one field goal. They
(02:41):
weren't even good at the free throw line. So their
youth and their depth is a huge, huge edge. During
the regular season, right, they just have huge energy. And
the regular season it's not about preparation. Sometimes it's a
back to back. You're watching film in the locker room
as you put your uniform. It's about bodies. It is
(03:02):
about energy, and okay, sees the best in the league
at that. But the playoffs, everybody's equally arrested and you
face the same team over and over and over, and
Rick Carlisle is sitting there thinking, Okay, I'm starting to
figure this team out a little bit. I'm starting to
figure this team out. Late in the fourth quarter, it
(03:22):
was Oklahoma City that was gassed. Indiana was getting great looks,
getting great looks. They shot fifty two percent for the game.
So we have ourselves a series now. I mean, think
about the regular season. The only teams that have ever
won as many games is the Thunder in the regular
season are the Early Warriors with Stephan Clay, the best
team ever. Michael Jordan's Bulls and the Wilt Elgin Baylor,
(03:46):
Jerry West Lakers. To go, you gotta go way back.
Those are the only teams that were ever better. And
they are built perfectly for the regular season, and they're
a very good playoff team and they may win the
finals games and Okac, but today they are mortal. They
have a kryptonite that youth on the road allows one
(04:08):
hundred and seventeen points a game. That's not all time stuff.
Here's SGA after.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
They were aggressive.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
They were they were hiring the picker rolls. They really were,
just like courtes said, more aggressive, more forceful. Yeah, we
gotta starts with me, but we got to apply that
pressure back.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Especially if you want to.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Beat a team like that on the road, you gotta
be the more forceful team for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
All right, let's talk Pacers, and they are and we've
said this, they're a lot of fun to watch. I
thought they'd beat Milwaukee. I didn't think they'd beat Cleveland.
I didn't know about the Knicks, and I took Okac
and six. I gotta tell you, they have so many
different types of players. Forget the fact that seven different
(05:01):
pacers are averaging double figures in the finals. Forget that,
but I mean they have They can put crazy length
on the floor. Halliburton's the longest point guard in the league.
Put on the floor with Obi Toppin, Siakam and Miles Turner,
They're one of the longest teams. You can go small
and quick, TJ McConnell, Naysmith. They got small, quick guys.
They got long guys. They have ascending players. How about
(05:23):
Ben Mathern. How about that guy? How about that young guy?
Got a little Westbrook right with a little more refinement.
He was a hockey and football player in Canada. He
goes to Arizona one year in college dominates next year
he's gonna be one of the best players in the league.
You're going to talk about Cooper Flag and that kid's
gonna give you twenty two a night. He has wild
confidence and per minute, I think he may be the
(05:45):
Pacers leading score per minute. So they've got ascending players,
veteran players like Siakam, rim protectors. There are so many
levers for Rick Carlyle to pull that are unselfish. Don't
see ego. They have the requisite three point shooters. I
mean last night they had eleven blocks. They had like
(06:08):
double the steals. I was saying this on my podcast
after is that they stole about eight points last night
on like inbounds plays or offensive rebound or a steal
or a block. They were just stealing points throughout the game.
And remember, this is a really bad Here's here's something
that's really bad news for Oklahoma City. So Oklahoma City
(06:32):
played the fewest clutch time games in the league, right,
and all the pressures on Oklahoma City because they're the favorite,
and they're one of the youngest teams in the league,
and the Pacers are the best clutch time team probably
in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
That's a bad combo.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
A young team with more pressure that hasn't played a
lot of close games against the best close game point
guard and team in the league. And if you go
look at the by quarter scoring, Oklahoma City's best quarters
the first, the Pacers is the fourth.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Which one would you take as a head coach? Now?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Game sevens and OKC, But the pressure is all on
the Thunder. The best thing they got going for him.
They're at home and they're good at home. But last
night I thought Indiana got better looks, they played more efficiently,
they were less sloppy, they were more composed. They were
the much better team at the end of the first
(07:34):
half and at the end of the game. Remember the
Pacers got to the Eastern Conference Finals last year. We
forget this. We paid so much attention to the Celtics
and can Denver get back? And we're always talking Lakers
Kyrie Irving and Luca. This team got to the Eastern
Conference Finals last year, but they weren't very good defensively.
Now they're much better defensively with the same great pace
(07:57):
and all these ascending players like Halliburton's getting better. You
can see this, Nasmith. I mean, like the Sea Hawkins
has always been good, right, but this is a team
that's getting better and has more confidence not only year
to year, but series the series.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And here's their coach after.
Speaker 7 (08:16):
This is the kind of team that we are. You know,
we need we need everybody to be ready. It's not
always going to be exactly the same guys that are
stepping up with scoring and stuff like that. But you know,
this is this is how we got to do it,
and we got to do it as a team, and
and you know, we got to make it as hard
(08:36):
as possible on them.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It really matters that Rick Carlisle's a good coach, because
I don't care if it's football, basketball, hockey, or baseball.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
The better the manager, the better the coach.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
They're better at pulling the right levers, Eric Spolstra, Steve Kerr,
they just the more levers you can get them to
pull in a series. So, and I also think we're
overstating it's it's bad on me, but I think I
kind of felt like going into the series, you know, like,
OKC He's got a better roster.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I'm not so sure of it. I'm not so.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I think Indiana plays were to good defense, and I
think they have so many different types of players, small, quick, long, offensive,
I mean Halliburton, Obi Toppin, Miles Turner. This team at
eleven blocks last night. So I you know, we're all
(09:26):
talking about what the Knicks are gonna do and wait
till Tatum's back with the Celtics, and who are the
Lakers going to land?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I look at Carlisle an ascending roster, all sorts of shapes,
styles and sizes, and leverged a pull, got ourselves some
NBA drama, J mag.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
This was fun. Last night was fun.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And I'll tell you what if you start looking at
what Indiana does in the fourth quarter this.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Year, there was a video that was out.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It was I was introduced to it probably about three
weeks ago, and they showed Halliburton, who you were on
like two and a half years ago, but they showed
Halliburton every shot he took, like a minute or less
left in the basketball game to lead er tie.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Guy was like twelve of thirteen.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Like there's always been this feeling among the analytic mavens
that there's no such thing as clutch shooters, like it
all works out with a math.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's not true.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
But when you watch Indiana and Halliburton play, that guy
is so good and so confident in big clutch moments.
At some point we have to acknowledge Halliburton is now
one of the NBA's elite closers. It's not always scoring,
but from three point shooting to driving and dishing, he
(10:39):
is one of the league's best closers.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
He was tremendous. I'm surprised you did ten minutes and
we really did not.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Go after SGA, the MVP, the free throw merchant, who
somehow escaped criticism for a fourth quarter when he had
one turnover in one basket, Colin. They wore him down.
Seven different defenders on SGA. And if you notice when
the Pacers were running offense, they were attacking him the
same way that Pacers attack Brunson. Remember, Brunson was just
(11:06):
getting abused. They went at Sga. He had nothing left
in the tank.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Colin.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I don't know how they the thunder changed this.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
I'm shocked that the line is OKC minus six for
Game four on the road. They haven't covered a road
game this postseason, and eight against the spread.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
How is OKAC favored here? I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, I mean, it's pretty clear if SGA doesn't get
to the line, they are an average playoff team on
the road, and overall they're four and four when he's
not getting to the line over eight times, so that's
sort of the key if he does not get the
home whistle.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And when you and I.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Talked about this yesterday on the show, we both liked
Indiana and our takeaway was, and you saw it last night.
Bench players and young players at home are unbelievable. Indiana's
bench last night, it's one of the great bench. The
second quarter was insane. They just they put starters on
the bench brought the bench guys in and they were
(12:00):
dominating Okac. Indiana's bench is not gonna look like that
in the road, and Okac's bench isn't his dynamic on
the road.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So this is something with stars.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Usually you get your points from your Halliburn's gonna be
good usually all the time. Yokitches Giannis is. But those
rotational and bench guys. Home is a different environment completely.
They get confidence, they get.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Energized, and the Pacers win this in six because if
they win, they got to win game four. I don't
think they're taking two of three from Okac on the road,
right they get They're not gonna win game seven and
Oka Sell they'll get run off the court.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I took okay See in six, I would adjust it
to Okac in seven. I think they're gonna be tough
to beat at home in a game seven.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
And PACER's got to win this in six. That's why
they got to win game four. Ben Matherin, by the way,
what a stud? So you call him Russell Westbrook last night?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
No? He does?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
He?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
But oh no?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So I went and I looked up his Wikipedia stuff.
He was a hockey guy and a football guy in
a basketball guy he goes to Arizona, is a dominant
college player, and you know he's a one and done guy,
but he's a guy that what he's on the floor
is just instant energy for them. I mean you can see, folks,
you can talk about all these players. We're gonna pay
attention to Cooper Flag next year and Wemby and the
(13:11):
young players. This kid is dynamic man. He is caught.
He was like that in colle I boughted him like
twice in college. Super confident player.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And he's confident defending SGA Game one, in Game three, he.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Did a great job. He's like a physical dude.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
You can't just push him off like SGA normally does.
I'm all about the series, Colin.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
It's fun.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You are now entering the No Bull Zone sponsored by
Credible Great Rape, None of the Bull storytime, Uncle Colin. So,
there were these two scientists back in like the sixties
for three M, the company three M, and they were
trying to create this super strong adhesive for the aerospace industry.
(14:03):
But even though they're scientists and smart guys, they ended
up creating a much weaker adhesive that was very removable,
and that became post it notes, which are probably more
important anyway. But the point being is they stumbled into
wild success. And I think that's what the Cleveland Browns
have done. The coach and the GM did not want to.
(14:25):
They didn't want to draft Shador Sanders, and they did
in the fifth round, two rounds after Dylan Gabriel, and
he's crushing it. He's their best quarterback in camp, calling
calling you, he's facing backups, he's throwing to him as well.
Sometimes it's stumbling to success. It's not a straight line.
It's not linear. Brady with the Patriots brought Purty to
(14:47):
the Niners, Kurt Warner to the Rams. It's not always
a straight line. So the staff because they picked and
the GM because they picked Dylan Gabriel third round and
Shaudu Her fifth, they're given Dylan Gabriel most of the
first team reps, but not all of them. Now, not
all of them. The coaching staff cannot deny what's happening.
(15:10):
And here's the difference. Let's Forget Flacco for a second.
He'll probably start, and Kenny Pickett's not the future. Let's
concentrate on the two kids. Shaduur Sanders is thirty four
of forty four, nine touchdowns, one pick, the most accurate
quarterback easily in camp seventy seven percent. Dylan Gabriel is
(15:32):
the least of the four accurate quarterbacks fifty four percent. Okay,
so I'm sorry. They're all thrown to the same guys,
same protection, same coaching staff, and that's why you got
to be careful about Dylan Gabriel. If you just talk
about Shadur Sanders and Dylan Gabriel, they did not have
similar college experiences. Kay Shaduur Sanders has Travis Hunter and
(15:55):
a bunch of non Sunday players. Dylan Gabriel went from
powerhouse Oklahoma to powerhouse Oregon and Oregon. Outside of Ohio, State,
Texas and Georgia, Oregon had the most guys drafted. They
had ten guys drafted. NFL receivers left tackles right, so
so Dylan Gabriel's playing with pros pros everywhere. Receiver rams
(16:18):
drafted their tight end, the receivers they're left tackle pros everywhere,
great staff, one of the highest paid staffs in the country.
Shadur Sanders had Travis Hunter who got doubled and tripled.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
So it's just like you and I.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You can't compare a Yale GPA to a community college GPA.
But if you give them a standardized test or they're
taking a bar to be an attorney, Okay, now it's fair.
So that's why I think I don't want to hear
about what Dylan Gabriel did in college. Shadur didn't have
that experience. The OTA in the mini camps. That's the
standardized test. That's same guys, same staff, same calls. One
(16:58):
guy's complete and almost eighty percent, one guy fifty four percent.
And and you know, again, I go back to what
the scouts say, like lancerline. If you go back and
look at the scouting report, you know they acknowledge that
Shador didn't have a great arm, but Dylan had size, arm, release, mobility,
as all sorts of questions. So I don't care that
(17:20):
he dominated it.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Oregon.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
You know, it's like it's like a lot of quarterbacks
crush at Oregon. They've got great been a powerhouse for
twenty plus years Schador Sanders on just you know, humbly
trying to work his way up the depth chart.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
You could view things as you're not getting reps in
a negative way, or you could view it as, Okay,
when's my time to get out there. Let's be proactive
and let's get warm, let's get going. So there's no
excuses because when you get out there, nobody cares on
they reps you got whenever you get in the game.
Nobody cares if you took a snap before you know that.
They care about Everybody cares about production. So that's the
(18:00):
main thing. When you get out there, you got to
be able to produce.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Sounds like a sounds like a franchise quarterback to me,
like what I'm hearing. But again, same plays, same receivers,
same tight ends, same protection. Put that graph up again,
the numbers of the numbers. Shadeur is crushing it thirty
(18:27):
four or forty four. His balls aren't hitting the ground.
Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
No, no turn on the news. This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I'm not taking the bay, buddy. Let's go to Justin.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Herbert Colin the last time we saw him play an
NFL game, he threw four interceptions against the Texans, the
worst game of his career.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Essentially, the Chargers enter.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
The season looking for their first playoff.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Win since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Oh my gosh, Herbert is trying to move on from
that poor performance.
Speaker 9 (19:00):
Just like every other loss, you know, you take a
look at what you did wrong, what you did you
know right, and you try and improve. And if I
spend any more time, you know, worrying or focusing on it,
you know, a loss like that, I think I'm doing
a disservice to my teammates. You know, obviously he didn't
know the way we wanted to. Like I said at
the end of the year, begin to move on, and
you have to take a look at what you did wrong,
be honest with yourself, be critical, but you can't let
(19:22):
it take up too or few times.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Eleven wins win the division Chiefs sort of the wild
card team, and Broncos a wild card team as well.
I feel pretty strongly about that take.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
I don't disagree.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
They were like a year ahead of schedule anyway, right,
Nobody expecting them to get to the playoffs in year
one with Harball, and they upgraded the receiving corps added
Trey Harris. Mike Williams is back. You know, the running
back room is formidable with Nazia Harris and the kid
out Hampton from North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I think Harrorball's Harbaugh's history is by year two, it
feels like a horrorball team. You're one at Michigan, You're
trying to catch up on roots from Brady Hope or
or you know year one in San Francisco. Year two
in Jim Harbaugh's career, usually the running back room is settled.
He's got his O line fixed, the culture has been built.
(20:12):
So I think I think year or two, I can
tell you in the building there's a feeling they're gonna
make a significant leap from last year.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I don't doubt that at all. And I just anybody
who's like, whoa was Herbert any good?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Just go look up Peyton mannings like first four playoff failures.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Okay, he started his career going to the playoffs and
they just flopped. He could not get a win. So
just relaxed. Herbert's gonna be fine. Next story Colin is
Saquon Barkley.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Last month, Saque talked about flirting with retirement. I don't
know if you remember that, But he has since backtrack,
saying he doesn't plan on retiring anytime soon. Instead, Saque
has his eyes on, said on becoming one of the
greatest running backs of all time.
Speaker 10 (20:49):
The thing that drives me is the same thing that
has been driven me since I was a little kid,
and I've said it since I've gone to the league.
And I don't meet it in the Hurrogan way. On
to be the best running backs of a play, or
at least one of the best running backs have a play.
I don't think there's actually a way you can prove
who's the best. But that's always been a motivation, you.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Know, to be the best running back of all time
or the best receiver, you have to have iconic moments.
And when Barkley jumped over that player backwards, like that's
never been done by a running back. I mean, that's
what Barry Sanders has. He has two or three of
these iconic moves, like Barry Sanders has two or three.
Walter Payton's got a few of those, Marcus Allen's got
(21:33):
a handful, Earl Campbell does, Bo Jackson does, Marshawn Lynch
that beast mode run against the Saints in the playoffs
in Seattle. Like to be an all time running back.
It is such a unique position, all shapes and sizes
and styles that you have to have iconic moments. I
think that when he leapt over the defender backwards, it
(21:58):
was like, oh, okay, that's never done by a running back.
I do think he has a chance to be two
or three more years in Philly, in a few more
of those. I think he's in a very, very rarefied air.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
I don't think it's been done by anyone. I mean,
they're putting it on the cover of a video game.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
It's a crazy I'm looking up lists of the best quarterback.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
The best running backs.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Ever.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
This isn't like an NBA discussion where you can stack
hey all, NBA MVP Finals, all that stuff. I don't
know a lot of them have Jim Brown number one.
Now I wasn't born. I don't even know if you.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Were it was, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
It's tough for me to put a guy from the
nineteen fifties early sixties on the list.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
But Barry Sanders is considered up there.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Walter Payton, Emmett Smith, Ledanian, Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Marshall Falk.
I certainly think say Kwaider could be a top ten all.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That The best running back I've ever seen, I've said
it multiple times was Walter Payton. You got the shiftiness.
I would say, pound for pounding. He may be one
of the strongest players in league history. Walter Payton was
insanely strong. I think Barry Sanders is second. And then
I think there's about twelve guys, which includes, by the way,
a healthy Christian McCaffrey. When Christian McCaffrey's healthy, he could
(23:05):
be a slot receiver in the league.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
I let me ask you, you remember this guy, Thurman
Thomas from the nineties Buffalo very good, did very good.
He was like receiving, rushing like Saquon better than him.
It's really tough to quantify these things. And Saquon said
that in his quote, like, I don't know how you
judge that. It's some of it is subjective, but I
think Saquon certainly can be a top ten all time,
maybe top five.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Adrian Peterson's although we had Peterson could fumble, it wasn't
great out of the backfield as like you know, catching
the ball, but in terms of raw speed and power.
I think Gadrian Peterson's probably one of the top five
I've ever seen play.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Helped Saquon's argument that he goes to the Eagles and
they win the Super Bowl and he rushes for two
thousand yards. Right, that matters, kind of like Terrell Davis
and John Elway. Final story, Colin, let's go to the
Pittsburgh Steelers. This is interesting. So Arthur Smith is the
OC and historically they've been a run first offense. But
when you get DK, me Cafe and Aaron Rodgers, do you.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Still run it?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Well, here's Arthur Smith talking about merging those offensive philosophies.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
You'd love to be more balanced.
Speaker 11 (24:08):
You'd like obvious kind of how you want to attack
this defense where you think there are stakes? Waitis ces
aar I mean that's the game has played every Sunday.
And obviously, as your roster evolves, I mean, obviously we
didn't bring Aaron in here and signed DK for all
that money to.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Go run the wishbone.
Speaker 11 (24:22):
So you know, you try to play in the strengths
of your team.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We'll see six years as a coach or a coordinator,
one top ten offense. I'm gonna try to be I'm
gonna be fair, fair minded, but I I'll stick with
my eight and nine, nine to eight. I think it's
gonna be turbulent and rocky.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Anybody who thinks Aaron Rodgers is going to Pittsburgh to
take his cues from Arthur.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Smith, Hey, we're doing this. You got another thing coming. Okay,
that's not how Aaron Rodgers operates. Yeah, that's that's gonna
be an interesting Breer.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Was the one who told us about the six months ago.
He's like, yeah, I don't know how much sense that makes, Like,
is that gonna work? Arthur Smith prickly guy. I'm not
going to talk about him off the field, but historically
has classed with coaches and quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
We'll see, Aaron, We'll see.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Now, Arthur is very strong willed. Arthur Smith is a
very strong willed coordinator.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I'll just leave it at that. Jmack with the News.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So we were talking about this this morning about the
New York Knicks and Charles Barkley kind of eviscerated the
Knicks for their lack of a Tom thibodeaut plan. They
fired Tibbs, who's a really good coach, a bit of
a grinder.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Not you know, he.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
You know, he's kind of got a Mike McCarthy feel
to him, like, you know, he's a competent coach, but
you know he's not the sexiest higher. And the Knicks,
you know, they fire him and don't have a replacement.
But it is interesting. John Calipari's name came up yesterday.
You know, James Dolan love stars. He's gone after Jason
Kidd and Hemaya Duka and Quinn Snyder and Billy and
(26:01):
now you're hearing Jay Wright. It's a lot of star coaches.
And we were talking about this New York sports teams.
There are more bad decisions between the Jets and the
Giants and the Knicks firing Thibodau with no plans, the
Brooklyn Nets, the deck silly Kyrie Harden kd mess, the
(26:22):
Mets in twenty twenty three had the biggest payroll, could
not make the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
And I think a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I've always wondered, why do New York GMS owners and
teams make such awful decisions? A lot of smart people
in New York, and my take is it's a very
impatient market because it's got a very loud, relentless, high
volume media and gms and owners listen to it. You know,
(26:49):
newspapers have died in this country, right, but not in
New York, where you've got The Times and the Daily
News and the New York Post. It's still a great newspaper.
Town sports talk, it is still wfan. It's a loud,
relentless opinionated media, and it becomes I think gms overreact,
(27:10):
and I think owners listen to it.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And I mean in like Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I mean, I can only think in the last seven
eight years one move that was a head scratcher, and
that was rab Polinka signing Westbrook. Now Westbrook worked for Denver,
it did not work for the Lakers, and they quickly
backed out of that. It did not work. But that's
an exception. It's almost shocking if New York doesn't screw
things up. And so when I look at what the
(27:37):
Knicks created when James Dolan was distracted building the sphere
in Vegas or managing it or you know, overseeing it,
they became very patient and very dedicated to their vision
and their plan, and then they just blew it up.
With no backup plan. It's like, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Hello?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I mean it was a very clear culture. Crash the boards,
play defense, Villanova pro style and get the ball to
Jalen Brunson, one great shot maker. Crash the boards, be physical.
It had a Villanova feel to it. Ones in Philly,
Ones in New York. That's what it felt like. And
(28:18):
they blow it up. Now it's just you might as
well be the two thousand and three Knicks, two thousand
and eight Knicks. It's just chaos. There's no vision, no plan.
Tibbs was the culture creator. And again that doesn't mean
Tibbs is the most creative coach. That's not I don't
think he's the most creative coach. But I didn't look
(28:41):
at their issues as a coaching issue. I looked them
as personnel. They've got a lot of guys who are
now increasingly expensive with holes. Brunson doesn't defend, either does
Cat Robinson, doesn't score Michale Bridges as hot and cold
as a shooter. So here's Charles Barkley from NBA TV
last night hammering the Knicks who fire a coat and
a culture creator and have no plan afterwards.
Speaker 12 (29:04):
The Knick's got to be the stupidest damn people in
the world who like you, don't find no good coach
like that and don't have a plan. I mean it's
Tip did a hell of a job. Obviously something's going
on now, but you don't have a plan now the
three coaches turn you down. You gotta have a plan, man,
(29:25):
And they don't have a plan now. I mean, I
don't know what the hell they're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
You know what it reminds me of Tibbs. Reminds me
a little bit of Dan Campbell. Dan Campbell. I mean
the Parcels guys, the Jimmy Johnson guys, got loyalists, and
there are guys all over the NBA that love Tibbs.
You don't have any championships, but they go to these
losing franchises with big brands. I mean, the Lions have
been planned on Thanksgiving forever. It's a big brand. One
(29:52):
of the first teams you go back to. You know,
Bobby Lane, I think that's who it was. You know,
the Stafford years. The Lion have had Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson.
There've been great, great players, right and same with the Knicks.
But you're always kind of thinking they underachieve as a franchise,
and then they bring in a culture creator. You know,
(30:14):
you don't have to love Dan Campbell, the guy that
team plays harder than any team in the league, and
Tims's team practice harder and played about as hard as
any team in the league. If you got rid of
Dan Campbell and didn't have a replacement, be like, Okay,
you don't have to love Dan. He may not be
the best schematic coach, and he's not, but if you
take Dan out, you change the culture. Tim's is not
(30:39):
the greatest schematic, offensive creative guy, but if you take
him out.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Your culture's gone. And that's what.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Made the Knick special, and it's actually what makes along
with their offensive line, it's what makes the Lions special.
I remember Jay McK and I talked about this about
three years ago. They weren't winning yet and they lost
the game. I think they lost at home. Detroit did
to Baltimore, a very good Ravens team Lamar Jackson, and
I remember thinking their defense was awful. Detroit's defense was
just awful, And I'm thinking, this team plays so hard
(31:08):
and they're so flawed. Jared Goff was finally getting a
little time to throw, they'd hit an offensive lineman and
you're like, man, they are running through a wall. For
Dan Campbell, it was a personnel issue. And I think
the Knicks is more of a personnel issue than anybody
wants to admit. They've got a lot of lobsided players. Runson,
you know, he's taking the air.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Out of the ball.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Can't really defend, but he's a great shot maker. And
Karl Anthony Towns wildly skilled. Can't get him on the
floor defensively against the pick and roll. And Robinson everybody
loves Robinsonbody's useless late in the game offensively. So you
have all these guys with you know, limitations and ceilings,
and we're blaming tips. It would be like blaming Dan
Campbell a few years ago. Like I you know, somebody
(31:52):
told me this not long ago. When you hire an
NFL coach, you occasionally will get a guy like Andy
r who's a CEO and is good with schemes.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
But that's rare.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
You're hiring CEOs, that's what an NFL coach is. Occasionally
you get Shanahan who's got his running theory and he's
a CEO. McVeigh, but you're really hiring CEOs. Big broad
guys aren't necessarily on the headset like Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy
Johnson's a CEO. He's a walk around coach. He's watching
(32:26):
the receiver coach and the offensively, he's a walk around coach.
That's really what you're hiring. Sometimes you get lucky and
you get both. But there's a lot of these culture guys.
Don't ask culture guy to always be brilliant scheme guy.
That's not what Vrabel is. That's not what Dan Campbell is.
It's not that Vrabel doesn't know schemes. But you know,
(32:47):
Jim Harbaugh is a great example. Hartball's maybe the best
culture guy in football in America in the last twenty years.
He's an unbelievable culture guy. You know, Belichick was great defensively,
didn't know about offense. Brady makes fun of his offensive
knowledge or lacked thereof. He's a culture guy. So I
just I don't I don't get it. But I do
(33:08):
think that the New York media is loud, it's present,
it's it's opinionated, it's relentless, and I think it changes opinions.
GMS and owners listen to it and make really bad decisions,
and this was a really bad decision. At least have
somebody in the office in the waiting if you're gonna
get rid of them. You gotta have a deal. Basically
(33:28):
an hour done email. Aduka is at the airport and
can come in for the press conference. You gotta have
some plan.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern, not a em Pacific.
Speaker 13 (33:39):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 13 (33:45):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get to.
Speaker 14 (33:48):
And that's why we have a brand new podcast called
over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in
our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promised in things we ever
have time for. Yeah, you blubber Liam and me.
Speaker 13 (34:02):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 14 (34:06):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships and if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time. It will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 13 (34:20):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 14 (34:30):
There you go, over Promising. Remember you could see it
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen over Promised with
Covino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Rachel Nichols top of Next Hour. So ja this this
headline came down today DOBNBA television ratings down more than
fifty percent. We should probably do a study on that.
I'm not I'm not sure why that would be. Oh
oh wait, since Caitlin Clark's injury, okay, hopefully this is
(35:12):
good news that she's coming back. And it's a reminder,
ladies of the WNBA, she is the rising tide. This
is not fever games just down. This is league ratings
since she got hurt, down fifty five percent, so she
is essentially the sun at the beach. If she's not out,
(35:33):
nobody else is. And by the way, there are great
young players. Paige Becker's dropped like thirty five, she was
banged up. She's back Asia Wilson. It's not a lack
of talent. Popularity and production are hard to measure. Remember
how popular John Daly was on the tour smoking and
(35:54):
sixteen diet coke today. He was wildly more popular than
every golfer not named Tiger Woods. Alan Iverson got to
one finals. He was wildly popular. He had cultural significance.
I'm not here to tell you why. And Caitlin Clark,
like Iverson's a great player, but she equals ratings, revenue
and relevance and those three things. The WNBA is dying
(36:17):
for so pro sports. I mean, even our business is
an attention economy, and some people just get attention and
everybody's trying to grab their slice of.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Equity or space.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
So be nice WNBA players to the lady that currently
has her leg up, because she's giving the league a
leg up. Fifty five percent, you know what that is.
That's Jordan leaving the NBA. That's what it is. Jordan
left the NBA. They lost fifty percent of their numbers.
(36:52):
I mean, when Tiger left golf, the Masters in the
US Open were still popular.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
This is different.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
This is kind of unprecedented territory. And again, you don't
have to be the best player to be the most popular.
I've said this before. I got nothing against Taylor Swift.
Very pleasant, seems adorable, talented, I'm not disputing it, but
her music doesn't move me. But I mean, I'm watching
the guy that won the Oscar last year. I think
he won like his second Oscar in acting. He doesn't
(37:24):
move me right Like whoever whatever moves you. I can't explain. Generally,
there is production behind popularity to some degree, and Caitlin's great,
but like it's time to get over the angst. Like
she's changed the league. She doesn't show up. It's like
the sun going behind the cloud at the beach. It's
(37:44):
not the same environment. You just got to come to
terms with it. By the way, I saw this little
this little note talking about Saquon Barkley. Remember a couple
of years ago, people were freaking out, mostly the young media.
Nobody's running backs aren't getting paid. This is outrageous, and
we said time out. Running backs have value, always have,
(38:07):
always will especially for young quarterbacks. The great thing about
a running back, I'd actually rather have a great running
back than a great wide receiver, because, especially if you
have a quality quarterback and a quality team, you're going
to be at the end of games in the last
couple of drives trying to get first downs and eat
(38:29):
the clock. Also, running backs are not affected by weather.
A great Tyreek hill is wonderful, But do you have
a quarterback that can throw it deep? Who's really throwing
it deep in January and February if your plan outdoors
in windy weather. Running backs are all weather tires. Okay,
you get them, it doesn't matter. And they also are
great at preserving leads. Also, I don't have to have
(38:51):
my quarterback do anything but turn around and hand you
the ball. So running backs were never going anywhere. And
another example of that, Sakwan Barkley just unseated Patrick Mahomes
as the leader in merchandise sales officially licensed products sold.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
The leader in the NFL is a running back.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Now after him, it's a quarterback, a quarterback, a quarterback,
a quarterback, a quarterback, a pass rusher or receiver. Do
you notice do you notice America's team. How many Cowboy
players do you see in that top bus seven?
Speaker 10 (39:28):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Oh, they got one in the top fifteen. One.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
We've been on this now, J Mack for two years.
The Cowboys are not America's team, and a lot of
that is TV ratings and merchandise sales. They got one
guy in the top fifteen and their quarterback is nowhere
to be seen in the top twenty.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
Well, Eagles have two in the top three. Should they
be Americas? It's just kidding. Obviously that is interesting to
Detroit Lions in there.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah, that's not a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Wow, this is certainly interesting. Coward, where's my guy, brock Perdy?
He's not moving merch.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Whereas he? Uh oh, I think you have to be
six to two to be on this list. Sorry, I
what a cheap shot.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Cheap I was joking.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
No, blow, coward.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Oh no, no, he's probably somewhere. He's probably eighteen twenty
something like that. I notice this is what's great about
the NFL. Look at the market sizes. Got Cincinnati guy,
a Green Bay guy, a Kansas City guy, another Kansas
City guy, Buffalo guy, Detroit guys.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
That that is the name that's not on there.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Let me just double check before I sound like an idiot.
Lamar Jackson, where's he got here? On the show yesterday?
I say, And he's the best player in the league.
He's got what's going on.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
It's it's really funny. I that was my first person
I looked for was Lamar. He is not on it now.
I mean justin Herbert, who basically hides from the media.
He's in the LA market. He's not on an either, Lamar.
Lamar's had so much success, I don't I can't really
explain Lamarrow. I've said this before, Lamar. Like I like
(41:05):
watching the NFL. There are very few players in the NFL.
When their side of the ball is on the field,
I can't turn the game off. He's electrifying, come on,
a totally electrifying talent. He's not as good, but I
think he's more electric than Mahomes in terms of just
(41:26):
a television product.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
I don't keep any argument there, of course. I mean, listen,
let's be real.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
The Chiefs made the jump to light speed when Travis
Kelsey started daily dating Taylor Swift.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
They were not even close to America's You would.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Admit that, right, And then as soon as Taylor Swift
enters the chat boom. They're on like every channel, streaming TV, primetime, everything,
So you know, this Lamar thing's puzzling.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
It deserves further, now, further in depth probiming by you.
He's a quarterback, he wins a lot, and he's dynamic.
Why has he not in the top fifteen.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
That's weird.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I don't have an I don't have an idea. That's
that's really interesting. Hour two Rachel Nicholls h's to her
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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