June 4, 2025 • 41 mins
Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin reacting to the Knicks firing their head coach Tom Thibodeau despite New York having their best season in over 2 decades
He believes Kevin Durant is no longer a winning player in today's NBA as the offseason approaches and the Suns are looking to offload the 36-year-old former MVP
Jason also talks to NBA analyst Mitch Lawrence about what led to Thibodeau's dismissal
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, and welcome back to the Herd. It's me Jason
McIntyre here in La on a Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
And boy do we have a spicy showhead. I'm joined
as always by Alex Curry. Alex, I had several people
ask me about the ghost topic yesterday.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You run away.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
I never fired up.
Speaker 6 (00:47):
About ghost, No, okay, Jami.
Speaker 7 (00:50):
The way you see it is like you can like
white sheet scary.
Speaker 6 (00:54):
No, I'm talking about like energy, So you can feel energy.
Speaker 7 (00:57):
And it's funny to said, a lot of people bring
it up to me too, and it's all women who
can feel it.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
You see it. We can't see, no, but women have
like strong instlusitions. I mean, we're basically liked pretty much.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I don't see the paper towel being empty, it's the
toilet paper.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I don't even see that stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It's not like what cartoons and movies Scooby Doo ghost terrified.
All right, so listen, Obviously we got to start the
show with the big news in the NBA yesterday my
New York Knicks, who finally seemed to get their act
together right, greatest season this century.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And they fired their coach, Tom Thibodaux.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
He gets fired yesterday, and what like the middle of
the show, Alex and I were stunned. That was closer
to the end of the show. And one interesting nugget
trickled out overnight regarding how this happened. Because remember a
lot of folks, myself included, thought it maybe you.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Just bring Tiboteau back and you run it back.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
You know, you guys two games away from the NBA Finals,
took down the defending champion Celtics.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Why not run it back.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
But this nugget trickled out of the exit interviews. Apparently
when the Knicks were interviewing Josh Hart, Michel Bridges, Jalen Brunson,
one certain play person in the organization happened to sit
in on those exit interviews, and that.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Was James Dolan, who's largely been a ghost the last
five years. Do you like that play on words there?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Uh, Dolan has not been around the Knicks because he's
been running the sphere in Vegas and getting that off
the ground, and obviously that's a great win for mister Dolan.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
But sitting in on.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
The exit interviews and all of a sudden boom, the
head coach has gone, you have to wonder did he
hear something he didn't like?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, we know that that.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Just something did not come from Jalen Brunson, who staunchly
defended his coach. After the Knicks were eliminated by the Pacers.
We had a reporter say, well, what do you think
about TIBs? Is you got to make it back? And
Brunson was like, is that a real question? We know
Brunson liked Tips, He's known Tim since he was a
young guy. Rick Brunson, his father who's the Knicks staff,
(03:01):
played for the Knicks, and like, there's a lot of
internal stuff. Bruns into Thibodeaux were a copacetic. But what
we do know is that Josh Hart had beef at
points this season with Thibodeau and Mikale Bridges. As recently
as the middle of March piped up why aren't we
playing our bench?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Why are we playing so many minutes? What's going on here?
Speaker 5 (03:22):
I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And the numbers bear it out.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
The Knicks starters averaged more points per game than any
other starting unit in the last forty five years in
the NBA. Tibbs does not trust his bench, right, That's
very well known. Happened in Chicago. Unfortunately, after that, you
thought Derek Roseware down, you start Joe King Noah like
these guys' careers Luell Dang, your careers kind of ended
early because Tibbs ran him into the ground, and.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
The Knixt players clearly pushed back on that.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Bridges actually mentioned in March, Yeah we got Landry Shammitt.
Why is any planning more? Well, Tibbs, I guess saw
the light and started playing Landry Shammon in the Pacer series.
But fortunately it was a little bit too late. Landry
Shammack couldn't save the day. So now you have to wonder, like,
does this change the trajectory of say, Carl Anthony Towns.
(04:12):
Now we know he is a TIBs guy dating back
to Minnesota, Is he all of a sudden on the
trading block? Like what happens Mikhail Bridges, who has had
for five first round picks and is looking for a
big money extension.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Do you pay him?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Do you try to get three guys to create him
and the aggregate next year? Does this mess everything up?
But most importantly, where do the Knicks head for a
head coach? And I do want to quickly defend Tives.
Just give me a second. There was a nineteen year
stretch where the Knicks won one playoff series. Okay, Thibodeau
has won four in the last three seasons.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
He has been successful. Okay, this under Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Five seasons, four playoff appearances, and you see that winning
record there. I know this is gonna be surprising. He
has more wins with the Knicks than pat Riley. It's
just a mind blowing stat Like, Tom Thibodau's been great.
And we should also add before Tims came on board,
eighteen seasons, twelve different head coaches, so they finally get
(05:14):
their act together. And now we're back in the head
coaching cycle for the Knicks. Who's going to be the
next head coach? Well, you know, at the top of
next hour, I'm going to reveal my five top names
to replace Thibodeau, and then a really spicy name that
I haven't really seen bandied about. It doesn't seem realistic,
but I think there could be some potential there.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
What's going to happen next with the Knicks?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Now, I do want to pivot to a really explosive
report in The Athletic about Kevin Durant, and oh boy, folks,
it don't look good for Kevin Durant. Let me start
here by saying, Kevin Durant is one of the fifteen
greatest players in the history of basketball.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Full stop, we all agree.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
The guy won an MVP, carried OKAC to the finals,
goes to Golden State, wins two finals MVPs. His resume
speaks for itself. Kevin Durant has had an incredible career.
It's inarguable that. Being said, we know, sports are what
have you done for me lately? And in some ways,
(06:18):
you know, Kevin Durant is the guy who used to
be an A list actor and get all the first
look at scripts, and now he's not getting any looks.
I mean Nick Cage comes to mind. You know, won
an Academy Award for leaving Las Vegas.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
What has that guy done?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Lately.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Where's Nick Cage the last ten years? Can he open
a movie? No shot?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I mean Will Smith. Will Smith has an unbelievable movie resume.
I mean, I Am Legend is like probably one of
my top ten movies of all time. I love Will
Smith as an actor again, Like, is he getting any
good looks anymore? What are they starting filming Bad Boys for?
You know, like that's where Kevin Durant is in his career.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I don't know if anybody wants them.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And I know what the trade deadline, there were teams
in and talking to the Suns. You had reports. I'm
gonna put those in air quotes, reports that five teams
wanted Kevin Durant. Well, the latest report in the Athletic
is that the Phoenix Suns keep calling the Houston Rockets,
and the Suns keep lowering their asking price. Kevin Durant
(07:18):
is thirty six, and we know he's still a bucket. Okay,
that's that's obvious. Kevin Durant, he can give you twenty
five points a night.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
That's great. Yeah, so can Moe Wagner and Jalen Green.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
I mean, these guys are ten years younger and they
can score almost what Kevin Durant does. And Kevin Durant
is also kind of an ordery, prickly fellow who oh,
by the way, has not been great in the playoffs lately.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
The super team sons, yes, d Book Durant and Bradley
Beal qualifies as a super team. That's three all NBA
players joining forces. They didn't make the playoffs this year. Okay,
Kevin Durant has been swept in two of his last
three trips to the playoffs, and yes, both were with
super teams. Need I remind you the super team fiasco
(08:06):
in Brooklyn, which is really deserves its own thirty for
thirty it was a Hindenburg.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
They got swept in his last playoff appearance by Jason
Tatum and the Celtics. Kevin Durant in the postseason is
not what we he used to be. Again, you could
love KD and he's a bucket, but he's turning thirty
seven in September. Here's Rick Buker earlier this week talking
about the trickiness of how to move Kevin Durant.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
The tricky part is are you just getting him as
a one year rental or is he going to sign
an extension. Do you want to sign him to extension?
What does that extension look like? There's a lot of
tricky parts to that. To your point, because of Kd's age.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
I just don't know what the market is for Kevin Durant.
So I started looking at the standings and teams that
could be close and looking at Kevin Durant's fifty four
million dollar contract next year, and yeah, okay, he's going
to give you twenty five twenty seven points a game.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
He don't want to be a leader. So if you
expect Kevin Durant to go to a young team and
maybe be that leader, be.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
That agent of change who's gonna take them up the
next step, and I'll toss one out there. You know,
Kevin Durant went to the University of Texas. He loves Austin,
has a very big affinity for the city. Hey, the
San Antonio Spurs, could that work? Wem Ben Yama dieron
Fox Kevin Durant, Maybe that's something. And then you look
(09:30):
at what the Spurs are and you're like, okay, well,
we're not giving up Stefan Cassel for to rent Kevin
Durant for one year.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Is wem Ben Yama and KD? Is that doing anything
in the West?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And I look around the Houston Rockets, Folks, they would
rather chase Giannis than go after Kevin Durant. I mean,
I don't you know. A couple of years ago, Kevin Durant.
You know, he grew up in the DC area.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
It's a legend in Maryland growing up.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And I floated the idea, why wouldn't he go to
the Wizards, you know, and join forces with like John
Wall and Bradley Beal. This is way back, and it's
like Wizards are one of the worst teams in the
league right now. I mean, is that the kind of
thing where we're gonna see Kevin Durant end up on
a bad team? Somebody in our morning meeting floated, what
about the Atlanta Hawks, KD, Trey Young, Jalen Johnson coming back.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
From I don't know. And again, I'm a huge Kevin
Durant fan.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Yes, we've had our online beefs a few times over
the years, but I love him as a basketball player.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I don't love the I just want to hoop. I
don't want to be a leader thing. I mean, could we.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
See him in Detroit to help the Pistons get over
the top. But then you look at the Pistons salaries
and it's like, Okay, are we dumping any of our
good young players? Hey, we need on sar Thompson. You're
not getting him, not for Kevin Durant for one freaking year.
And the more we talk about KD and you read
stories about the Sun's lowering their asking price, you start
to wonder, like, she's other son's gonna have to attach
(10:54):
a draft pick, assuming they have any left to get
off Kevin Durant. Are we in a where Kevin Durant
is close to ending his career like Patrick Ewing did
with the Seattle Sonics.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You guys remember a Lajahwan wearing a Raptor's jersey.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
I mean, Karl Malone's sitting on the bench with the Lakers,
Like we're not this is like a year or two away.
Maybe for Kevin Durant, He's either gonna have to have
a big reality check and understand, dude, I'm not that
guy anymore. Or Kevin Durant's gonna have to change his
ways and say, you know what, I will be a
leader for a young team because if I need twenty
(11:31):
five points.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I'll go get Tyler Hero.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Sorry, I don't think Kevin Durant's defense is that superior
to what you're getting at fifty four million playing the
position he does. And I'll leave you with this, like, again,
I don't want to be seen as taking jabs at
Kevin Durant, but at this stage in the game.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like, what do you do with him?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Is there a world where nobody wants Kevin Durant? As
shocking as that sounds, I think we're getting close to
Kevin Durant not really getting the interest that he thought
he would, so he goes super Teams and now he
goes kind of out with a whimper.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
All right.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Coming up next here on the Herd, an NFL Star,
Yes Star is throwing around the R word retirement.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We'll tell you who that is next here on the Herd.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and neon Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Back here on the Herd, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd.
I don't know about you, guys, but I know a
lot of dudes who do this. You know, you're on
a vacation and you instantly think like, oh man, I
can't wait to retire, and you start bandying about retirement plans.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Where you'd go.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Obviously you got to be in a nice area, ideally
near an airport, because you want to travel a lot
in retirement. But everybody loves thinking about retirement, but not
quite like NFL players do U. Saquon Barkley, who is
just coming off like one of the greatest running back
seasons we've seen two thousand yards, goes to the Super Bowl,
(13:11):
wins the Super Bowl. He went on a podcast this
week with Chris Long, the green Light Podcast, and out
of Nowhere.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Saquon Barkley starts talking about retirement. Here we go.
Speaker 9 (13:22):
I'll probably want those guys that it'll be out of nowhere,
Like I'll probably just wake up one day, whether it's
next year or two years or four like, and it's
be like, yes, it's over. One of my favorite players
of all time is probably my favorite play all time
is Barry Sanders, So probably similar to that, maybe one day,
like it'll be out of nowhere, I'll probably ballin and
just be like, yeah, call it quits now.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I will say that sounds pretty amazing. Obviously, Saquon Barkley's
made generational wealth in you know, just a small run
here in the NFL over the last decade, and we've
seen other big time names retire early Barry Sanders obviously
a Saquon alude to Aaron Donald, Calvin Johnson, and you
(14:03):
never know how like a franchise is gonna shake out.
So I'm sure some Eagles fans heard this and we're like, oh,
we might lose, say quad, Oh no, it's gonna be okay, guys,
take a deep breath.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I did not realize this. I had to look it up.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So the Philadelphia Eagles from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty
four have the fifth most wins in the NFL in
that span. The only teams with more wins the Chiefs obviously,
the Baltimore Ravens, who uh, let me see here. No,
they haven't made a Super Bowl in that duration. The
Buffalo Bills, have they made a Super Bowl? No, they
(14:41):
have not, the Green Bay Packers, and the Phildelphia Eagles.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Eagles at five guys.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
In the last eight years, the Eagles have made the
Super Bowl three times, two.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
A Jailen Hurts and woman Nick Foles.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Nick Foles obviously filling in for the injured Carson Wentz.
I guess what I'm getting at here is I get it.
Saquon will be a huge loss. Like you know, you
saw Christian McCaffrey go down for the Niners last season.
They were kind of lost because McCaffrey does so much.
Saquon does a lot of that with the Eagles and
did it this past year as good as you can imagine.
(15:16):
But if he leaves, are the Eagles in like rough shape?
I like to say running backs matter. We've gone back
and forth on the show over the last couple of years,
like running backs are back.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
They matter. They're almost undervalued. I mean there's tight ends
in the league. And I'm not talking the elite guys.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I'm not going second tier guys who were making Saquon
Barkley money last year. Like, you know, something's up with
that tight ends again, like maybe eight targets a game,
maybe ten. Saqua touched with the ball twenty to thirty
times a game, and the idea of losing him probably
scares some Eagles fans, But I'm gonna remind you they
(15:53):
got to the Super Bowl with Nick Foles. You can't
even name the running backs that they got to the
Super Bowl with the first time with Jalen Hurts, and
so now they get Barkley, and yes they win the
super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Obviously, very very nice. But let's not act like it's
the end of the world.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
If Saquon Barkley wants to, I don't know, enjoy a
media career down the road. I'm sure he'll start a podcast.
Everybody does. But I think the Eagles are gonna be
just fine. And I got to give Howie Roseman some credit.
I will say one of the bigger whiffs I've had
in the last fifteen years was Chip Kelly ascends to
(16:29):
the Eagles and right out of the gate they're really good.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Remember Chip Kelly, Mike Vick. I still remember that.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
First game together, Mike vic throwing an unbelievable bomb. I
was like, Ah, this is gonna be the greatest show.
And then Chip Kelly had like that war in the
front office with Howie Roseman and Chip Kelly for a
minute won that battle, and I was like, team chip Kelly.
He's a football guy. The guy was a genius at Oregon.
I'm all in on Chip Kelly. It petered out pretty quickly.
(16:55):
Howie Roseman gets back in good graces and whatever he
learned during that time of being jettison by Chip Kelly.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Howie Roasman figure things out.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
I mean, this guy has clearly become one of the
sharpest minds in building a roster in the league. And
I looked at the Eagles roster. You could go pro
football focus wherever you want. They got young studs everywhere, cornerback,
defensive line, linebacker.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
This team is stacked. Remember when they lost their center,
there was some concern.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Oh you know, Kelsey, one of the best centers in
the league.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Didn't miss a beat.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
They just seem to find guys everywhere, and a lot
of that goes to Howie Roasman. So I know Saquan
would be a huge loss to the Eagles and obviously
the NFL.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
He's fun and exciting.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
He's on the cover of Madden had this seminal move
in the NFL last year, jumping backwards over a dude.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
But I think the Eagles are going to be just
fine because.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
They're built for the long haul. Let's go to Alex
Curry with the news.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Turn on the news. This is the hard line jama.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
I also don't have a problem with guys going out
at the top of their career health right, that's like,
that's that's legendary. Okay, Well, officially the Summer of Soccer
on Fox and US men's national team head coach Urisio
Pettina was on the podcast recently and made some bold
claims about American soccer star Christian Polistic, comparing him to
one of the best soccer players of all time.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
Take a listen.
Speaker 10 (18:24):
I think Christian in the last year, I think it
was showing a great quality and he's performing, you know,
in Europe and also he's performing here in the national team.
He is a very talented player that can't help us
to win.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Of course, I.
Speaker 11 (18:39):
Don't want to be respectful with Messi or with with Messi,
but I think in this country policy should be ours
because he's an iconic player and the kids on the street.
For sure, if you as one soccer player in this country,
is policy.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
So yeah, obviously, this is what the US has been
struggling with for decades. We don't have a superstar, and
we're not winning at the international level, at these international tournaments.
And if you want to be a popular team across
any sport in the United States.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
You want to win.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
That's what people follow.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
They follow winners, and I think that's that's what needs
to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
It sounds like.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
They got the right guy.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
I mean, Putchettino has coached like Bape, Messi Neymar Harry Kane,
Pie Palmer.
Speaker 6 (19:32):
Like he's coached some of the biggest names.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
They just hired him last September, and he's I mean,
he's done a lot of great things for other teams.
He led Tottenham the Champions League final in twenty nineteen,
Psg'd to League One title in twenty twenty one. So
like he has a track record of taking teams and
taking him to the top. But the one thing the
United States, the US men's national team has lacked is
(19:57):
the results in the t to compete with the rest
of the world. And that's what you need.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I'm always reluctant when guys are going to invoke like
the greatest of all time? Can't I mean, but then again,
it gets pick up when he says message.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
If he says, oh, he could be our Harry Kane, Yeah,
I don't. We're probably not doing the segment. However, you know.
I'm a soccer guy.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
I know.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
I made sure we got a Lexi Lawless on the show,
so he's coming in later. I'm not sure when this
podcast was recorded, because there's a lot of polistic stuff
right now that is not good, Like he's not gonna be.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Playing with us.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
But there's also like a lot of their key players
aren't playing with the team this summer. So it's not
just sick, it's there's a handful of guys, and I
think it was like, well, if they're all not going
to be there, like, yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
But why do I need to be.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
They're not the face of the team, They're not the
leader face of the Lallas is probably going to go in.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
Oh yeah, we're gonna doubt him to that.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I'm looking forward to that. But I want to give
this coach a chance. So I'm not a big deal
out of this. No, let's just win some fring games
about that.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
That's we need to see results.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
We need to see results at the internet action level
at these big tournaments.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
Yeah, that's what we need to see.
Speaker 7 (21:04):
And then and then let's have a conversation about it.
Like our US women's national team back to back World
Cup champs Olympic gold medal champions, Like, that's what you
need to do if you want to gain subtraction and
a fan base and a face, a face of the country.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
And superstar like a messy, that's what you need to do.
All right, let's transition to the NBA.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Adam Silver was on breakfast Ball this morning and the
addressed the conversation around small markets like okay See in
Indiana making the NBA finals.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
Here he is earlier today.
Speaker 12 (21:34):
It's been intentional from our standpoint to create a system,
a collective bargaining agreement that allows more teams to compete.
And just by way of background, you know, we're going
to have to go through a process of getting to
the point where people are accustomed to tuning into the
finals because the two teams that deserve to be there
and it's the best basketball. Similar to again with the
(21:56):
super Bowl. If I asked somebody if they were going
to watch the super Bowl, they.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Wouldn't say who's playing.
Speaker 12 (22:00):
It's a national holiday and now that's nirvana.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
But the super Bowl, every team has superstar players. These
small market teams in the NBA don't necessarily have that
star power that's gonna drive ratings and it's gonna drive
people to plan their days and plan their events around
these NBA Finals. Like I hang out with a lot
of casual sports fans, fifty to fifty sports fans, and
(22:25):
I've named off like a couple of the stars in
the finals, and I saw blank faces. I'm like, Okay,
this is gonna be a situation where if it's on,
if you're somewhere and it's on the background, you're gonna
turn around be like, oh cool, NBA Finals, not plan
your whole day around.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
Okay, let's get together, let's get here. Let's go here
and make sure we're that for this game.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So you've seen the movie The Karate Kid Up. It's
legendar movie.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Definitely top ten so after sorry for the spoiler alert
on a movie.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
From the nineteen eightens. But Daniel uses the crane kick
takes down Johnny.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, and then and.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
They show Pat Marita aka mister Biagi just kind of
nodding his approval.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
You know, that's like a mean yes.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
When I hear Adam Silver saying it's been intentional.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Uh huh, that's what I said. That's why all these
people yelled at me.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Oh, let's know, Yeah, I'm sure, the league, what's Indiana
and Okay, see Adam Silver is saying, yes, that's what
we want.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
That's why we have new rules. I was frigging right,
I'm sorry I had to do.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
Guys, now, you were because you think it's what you want,
and then when they see the ratings and the results,
you're gonna have to kind of rethink that.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
So we I've been workshopping something.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Major League Baseball, yeah, has not had a back to
back champion in like twenty or twenty something like that,
a long over two decades.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, back in the Yankees. Yeah, the Yankees were the
last early two thousands.
Speaker 8 (23:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Yet somehow in the last few years they seem to
be going back toward super teams.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Yeah, Yankees and Dodgers World Series.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
They're going towards super team. Yes.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
The NBA is saying we don't want super teams, Alex.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
It's gonna hurt you.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I'm just telling you. I said yesterday, Yeah, give me
super teams or give me death. And I'm just telling
you right now we need stack teams in the NBA
with stars merging to get the polarization going.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I know the diehard fans are could be like, oh, Jason,
this is gonna be great, basketball man. Nobody cares.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
You have to remember sports are entertainment.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
People want to be entertained, and the way you draw
in the casual fan is big names and superstars. You
see this in movies and TV shows. It's the same
thing with sports. When you have a recognizable name and
a big face of the league or face of the
franchise or a super team, it's going to draw people
(24:57):
to watch the game, to create their events around the game.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Like you're gonna get the rating, you're gonna.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Get the viewership, you're gonna get the jersey sales right there.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Okay, but I just thought of this. So the Pacers
are huge under him.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Right, yes, Mina, I think Indiana is. Sorry, Okay, he's
like minus seven hundred, eight hundred.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It would be great for the NBA.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Yeah, if the Indiana Pacers won the series. Yeah, and
then Okayse said we gotta go get Kevin Dood bring
him back.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
That's the kind of thing. Ye would be freaking amazing.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
It would be because the fans had and.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Now they need you. Well, if they lose to the Pacers,
they need something.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
You can't run it back. Losing to Indiana as heavy favorites. Okay,
I agress, no.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
Hot tape, very it's a hot spice ons he needs
a home and Mark Bridy wants going down. Okay, last
story here Austin and he has hired a new president
of basketball operations for the Utah Jazz and he comes
from Boston where he started his ending where in both cases,
Austin's dad, Danny, played a prominent role on the team.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
That hired Austin. So I don't I don't care what
you say. This is a NEPO baby situation.
Speaker 7 (26:14):
He was hired by his dad in Boston now in Utah.
But again, like it's not necessarily a bad thing, right.
He grew up around the game, he worked his way up,
but he got his foot in the door and got
an upper hand because of his dad. His dad played
a prominent role in both of his hirings. Similar situation
when everyone was getting mad at lebron James for Bronnie
(26:37):
getting drafted.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
So I want to see that same kind of.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
Energy, in that same kind of fire in this situation
because it is like you got into a certain situation because.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Your father was also involved in that situation.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
And again I don't think like nefyl baby is necessarily
a bad thing in all situations. Because you grew up
in that setting, you are probably more prepared and suited
for a lot of these situations like this, and you're
still putting in the work and you're still working your
way up.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
But yes, this is a neo baby situation on the
executive side.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
So, by the way, did you read that article in
the New York magazine like oh, three years ago about
NEPO babies.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
It's like a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Have actually done good things after given the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yes, shocker, how that works.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
You just get a foot in the door and then
you have to do the work.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You have to do the work.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
So like Bronnie had his chance up and down, whatever.
Speaker 6 (27:36):
He's a bad thing, you're now up in the situation.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Your article Monday was he's gonna be maybe a rotation. Yeah, okay,
you've got a chance for this for him. Yeah, I
will say this about age if he was so great
in Boston, Yeah, for I think I saw sixteen seventeen years.
Why did nobody else make a run on it? And
then his dad hires him? Utah, Again, I'm not saying
(28:01):
he's not worthy. No, And Danny Angel is a legend
you want.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
To BYU liked multiple sport athletes.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Like really one of the greatest athletes in the state's history.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
He's gonna be able to call these shots. So I'm
with you.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yeah, if you want to bash Nippo babies, you got
to go after Dana and they.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Did it yet.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
But Alex, I'm gonna go ahead and yes, yes that
nobody gives a flying You know what about the Utah Jazz.
You think every year and you know, for being real,
here the Jazz were the worst.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Team in the league.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
They tank, They wanted the number one pick, they ended
up at five. But you can't tank again, Well, like,
what's the point, So you're gonna have to actually do
some work.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I'm wishing this guy the best. Again, I'm not bashing it.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
He was out with championship team, like he's been around here.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
He was with the Celtics.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Yeah, so it's.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
He's been in the game for a while.
Speaker 6 (28:50):
He knows what he's doing. So you know, prove yourself.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Can he make a big move and say, hey, I
have a great relationship with Jalen Brown, Let's trade for
Jalen Brown.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I'm just spitfall. Obviously, they're not gonna be cheap.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
I'm not gonna say anything could happen this summer, but
it just feels like maybe something is afoot.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Utah is going to make a big splash.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah we should, Yeah, Alex scurry with the news.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Heard Line News.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Wow, how about this tease? Who was behind the ouster
of Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
In New York.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
We head to the Big Apple to find out next
what happened to Tom Dibbodeau.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern nan am Pacific.
Speaker 13 (29:33):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
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iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(29:55):
sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't
seem to have the time to discus and the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something, right, So
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Take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
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(30:15):
check out Cavino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio
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get your podcasts, and of course on social media that's
Covino and Rich.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Welcome back into the herd.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
We got to go to New York now to figure
out who put the knife and Tom Thibodeau's back sot
to Mitch Lawrence, who's covered the Knicks forever, NBA writer
host Sirius XM. He's got an amazing background there as
you can see. All right, Mitch, So we were talking
during the commercial break and you described the garden as
a pit full of vipers.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Can you kind of break down what happened?
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Because Thibodeau just led the Knicks to their best season
this century.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
And then he gets asked.
Speaker 14 (31:03):
Yeah, I mean he had the best playoff run since
nineteen ninety nine, and the fans were partying like it
was nineteen ninety nine, and all of a sudden, he's
the guy who's the scapegoat. It is Listen, the Garden
front office is full of vipers. These are guys who
have their own agendas, whatever they are, They leak stuff
to the media. They want certain people and certain people out,
(31:26):
and they had it in for Tom. It goes beyond basketball, Jason.
It goes beyond he didn't develop a bench. It goes
beyond guys didn't know their roles. It goes beyond, you know,
he didn't have an offensive imagination. This goes beyond all
that stuff. And now we're gonna see who Jim Dole
and the owner, you know, who gets his ear and
who he talks to, and who they settle on as
(31:47):
the next coach and say this is what I when
I was, you know, based in New York and at
the New York Daily News doing twenty one years of
NBA columns, This was familiar ground for anybody who dealt
with the Knicks and dealt with Jim Dole. It is
a it's a it's a treacherous place if you're a coach,
because you're the guy who's the face of the franchise.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
They don't let Leon Rose talk.
Speaker 14 (32:08):
Dolan doesn't talk, so Tom Thibodeau was the guy who
had a talk.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
They don't help.
Speaker 14 (32:13):
Nobody's held accountable in terms of Leon Rose or Jim Dolan,
and you know, stuff like this happens. It's a very
it's run differently than any other organization, and it's been
unsuccessful in a lot of ways. You know, it's the
anti Spurs, anti Miami, whatever you want to call it.
They do things their own way, and for the most part,
(32:34):
before Time came on board, they were irrelevant and a
dumpster fire and they I think Nick fans probably fear
now that's the road they're headed back on.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Yeah, especially if you don't make the right higher. So
who would you say has the biggest poll or the
most poll in making the higher? Is it Dolan who's
kind of been out of the mix. You know, he
was with the Sphere in Vegas building.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That is it?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Leon Rose? Do the players have us say here?
Speaker 4 (33:02):
We know it's the Players League I mean, Jalen Brunson
couldn't save TIBs.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
But how do you break that down?
Speaker 14 (33:08):
Well, Jalen Jalen Brunson liked TIBs, so he and they
didn't listen to him. So you also have to wonder
what that means for him, especially if they get rid
of his father who's on the bench. I think that
has to be a concern for Nick fans too.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Listen.
Speaker 14 (33:21):
I think it's going to probably be a few people.
It'll be Leon Rose, They'll run it by Dolan. Dolan,
will you know, do his checks. It's hard to tell.
It's it's because nobody really talks publicly. Like what they
should do is have Leon Rose out there today to say,
this is why we fired Tom tibbot All. I'm gonna
(33:42):
take questions and answers, and by the way, this is
what we're looking for in our next coach. Give people
an idea of what they're going for. But the Knicks
don't do things like that like other teams. They don't
make people. You know that pat Riley goes public after
his team gets wiped off the court against Cleveland and he's.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
On he owns up to stuff.
Speaker 14 (34:00):
The Nicks don't do that, so you never know their
game plan, so it's very hard to say exactly how
it's all gonna run, or who's gonna have the power,
who's gonna you know, who wants who out there. It's oh,
you're always dealing with a lot of mystery at the garden.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, and it feels like, I don't know if you
use the word accountability, but like Leon Rose, like, shouldn't
you step up and meet the media and talk about
this now?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I mean that seems like the way we should do it.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
No, everybody does it that way in the league.
Speaker 14 (34:30):
H I mentioned pat Riley Brad Stevens when thing went
south for Boston this year they're spending champs. He met
with the media, and then he had Darryl Morey and
Nick Nurse meet in Philadelphia. Nobody had a worst year
expectation wise than probably Philadelphia. Jim Dolan doesn't want his people,
like Leon Rose and other gms before him, to speak publicly.
(34:52):
He kind of has an ant you know, you hear
teams having a you know, a media policy. He has
an anti media policy. That's where as long aside you know,
for the longest time, and a lot of it dates
back to that sexual harassment case. And you know, post
that in twenty oh seven, that's already eighteen years where
Isaiah Thomas and the Knicks got in big trouble. It
costs doll in twelve million dollars. After that, the league
(35:14):
basically held sway David Stern over the Knicks. That's when
they hired Donnie Walsh. Jim Dolan listen to the NBA then,
but since then, he he does things his way. He's
not going to have Leon Rose at all talk to
the media. The next coach will be the face of
the franchise, just like Tom was. Tom Tibodeau, which adds to,
(35:35):
you know, the pressure of the job in New York.
Now you're the coach. Not only do you have the
coach the team prepared a team. Now you're also the
face and the voice of the franchise. Puts a lot
of pressure on that next coach. Besides the fact that
obviously the next coach has a very high bar. You
got to come in, You got to win eleven playoff
games because Tom just one y ten.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I'm gonna throw some names at you. You tell me
your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
But first, the Phoenix Suns have just announced that they
have hired Calvs assistant Jordan Ott. You know whoever that is.
I don't know that that is a move based on
what the Knicks are doing. But there is a guy,
Johnny Bryant, whose name has been bandied about as a
potential Knicks candidate. I don't think you go from Tom
Thibodeau to Johnny Bryant, do you.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Well?
Speaker 14 (36:22):
I don't think so either, but that doesn't mean it
can't happen. And he seems to be the front runner
right now. He was in New York. Now you mentioned
Jordan not getting the Phoenix job. Johnny Bryant was also
up for that job. So now he works in Cleveland
fair Kenny Atkinson, but he had been in New York.
He's familiar with the front office. People are familiar with him.
(36:43):
He's got people who will hope he gets his job.
He has people who, from my understanding, who hope he
doesn't get the job. Listen, if you think you're a
championship contender, and I don't think the Knicks are.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I think they're a decent cut.
Speaker 14 (36:56):
Below with that roster, with their two best players being
one way offense of pelayers and defensive liabilities, I'm talking
about Jalen Brunts and Karl Anthony Towns. You've built around
those those guys. I don't think you can bring in
a guy like a Johnny Bryant who's never been a
head coach certainly, you know, and all of a sudden
(37:16):
entrust him to actually exceed what Tom Thibodeau did. I
think that's an impossible spot for him. And I think
that's the thing that I think Nick fans have to
be worried about.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, Michael Malone was fired by Denver maybe two months ago. Yeah,
he feels like Thibodeaux two point zero doesn't like to
play young guys, rides his starters like that was an
issue for Tibbs.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I would cross Michael Malone off the list of your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Just based on that.
Speaker 14 (37:43):
Well, I will say this, if you go back to
his Denver team and now he had Jokic. I know
Sga is the MVP, but this is like back in
the Michael Jordan era, Well, Carl Malone won the MVP.
We all knew that Michael Jordan was the best player
in the world, just like now we know that Jokic
is the best player in the world. He only had
a bench of basically three guys, Jeff Green, Bruce Brown,
(38:05):
and Christian Brett.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
They won the title that way.
Speaker 14 (38:10):
So if you're hung up on this bench, nonsense that
he won't play your bench.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
I mean, think of it this way.
Speaker 14 (38:18):
To Tom Thibodeau, is he really the first coach in
the history of the NBA and maybe sports to get
fired because he didn't he didn't develop a bench.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
It's absurd. It's absur. Look who's on his bench.
Speaker 14 (38:29):
Mike Malone had a great bench with those three players
versus what Tom Thibodau had to work with. But anyway,
that's a whole different story. I would hire Mike Malone.
He knows New York. His father coached in New York.
I knew Brendan Malone when he was an assistant in
Syracuse when I started out in the newspaper racket in
nineteen eighties. I go back that far when Michael Malone
(38:49):
was running around and basically diapers. Yeah, I think it's
the hell of a coach. Now ten years in Denver,
long time, won a title. Maybe got a little full
of himself, that's what people say.
Speaker 9 (39:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
I havn't talked to Mike since then. But he's a
very good coach.
Speaker 14 (39:03):
And let's not forget where was he before he landed
in Denver and did a great job their first title ever.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
He was in Sacramento. He did a great job there
for a franchise that continues to you know.
Speaker 14 (39:16):
I mean, that's just like total dysfunction out there except
for a few moments, right, except for a very few moments.
And Mike Malone did a good job there. I think
Nick fans would actually say, you know what, if we
got Mike Malone, yeah, we can go places and not
worry about what he did with his bench in Denver.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
Just look at his accomplishments.
Speaker 14 (39:34):
The only thing, though, Jason, is is he going to
come in You're gonna say, well, he had you know,
let's see how he does without.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yoga, without the basket player. Yeah, that's not all right.
Let me throw one.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
He's currently coaching the Dallas Mavericks and his name is
Jesse Kidd.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
He played with the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Obviously, he was not brought in uh to talk about
the Luca deal. He looked shell shocked at the press
conference afterward. Or the Nixon upgrade from the Maps.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
I don't know. Jason Kid's an interesting name.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
It is an interesting name.
Speaker 14 (40:08):
You know, if you look at the Knicks in terms
of where they are in the East, you know, Indiana
is there now. Boston's not gonna have Tatum for probably
a year, but they're gonna be back. You've got Detroit
on the rise or Orlando. We'll see what happens in
Milwaukee with Giannis. The Knicks, uh, you know they're gonna
(40:28):
they're probably gonna take a step back with a new coach.
I don't know how Jason First of all, he has
a job in Dallas. Like you raised the point with
his roster, He's not gonna have Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
For a while. He'll have Anthony Davis.
Speaker 14 (40:39):
We know that Anthony Davis cannot stay on the court
at points, but he's gonna get Cooper Flag. Right. It
sounds like they're gonna keep that draft picking up pick
Cooper Flag. So it would have to be some sort
of a trade to get Jason Kidd. They're gonna have
to get some sort of compensation. And who knows what
Nico Harrison and Patrick Dumont, the owner are thinking these
(41:00):
days about Jason Kidd. I have no idea all I
know is that the Mavericks fans are still I raped
that Luka Doncis is a Laker that has not gone away.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Yeah, all right, Mitch Lawrence, NBA writers, serious, serious XM hosts.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Great stuff. I like the blue Knick's shirt turtleneck. Nice job, Mitch,
thanks a lot.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
Man, thanks for having me. Jason enjoyed it.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yeah, interesting stuff. He's bullish on Michael Malone.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
I was pushing Michael Malone's name a month ago when
the Knicks were struggling against Detroit and I was like,
I don't know, if they can't get by Detroit, just
get TIBs out of here, bringing Malone.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Then they beat the Celtics and I'm like, just keep TIBs.
So coming up next, I.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Will give you my top five mixed coaches wish list
and a special bonus.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
That's next year. I'm heard
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, and welcome back to the Herd. It's me Jason
McIntyre here in La on a Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
And boy do we have a spicy showhead. I'm joined
as always by Alex Curry. Alex, I had several people
ask me about the ghost topic yesterday.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You run away.
Speaker 5 (00:46):
I never fired up.
Speaker 6 (00:47):
About ghost, No, okay, Jami.
Speaker 7 (00:50):
The way you see it is like you can like
white sheet scary.
Speaker 6 (00:54):
No, I'm talking about like energy, So you can feel energy.
Speaker 7 (00:57):
And it's funny to said, a lot of people bring
it up to me too, and it's all women who
can feel it.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
You see it. We can't see, no, but women have
like strong instlusitions. I mean, we're basically liked pretty much.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I don't see the paper towel being empty, it's the
toilet paper.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I don't even see that stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It's not like what cartoons and movies Scooby Doo ghost terrified.
All right, so listen, Obviously we got to start the
show with the big news in the NBA yesterday my
New York Knicks, who finally seemed to get their act
together right, greatest season this century.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And they fired their coach, Tom Thibodaux.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
He gets fired yesterday, and what like the middle of
the show, Alex and I were stunned. That was closer
to the end of the show. And one interesting nugget
trickled out overnight regarding how this happened. Because remember a
lot of folks, myself included, thought it maybe you.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Just bring Tiboteau back and you run it back.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
You know, you guys two games away from the NBA Finals,
took down the defending champion Celtics.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Why not run it back.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
But this nugget trickled out of the exit interviews. Apparently
when the Knicks were interviewing Josh Hart, Michel Bridges, Jalen Brunson,
one certain play person in the organization happened to sit
in on those exit interviews, and that.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Was James Dolan, who's largely been a ghost the last
five years. Do you like that play on words there?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Uh, Dolan has not been around the Knicks because he's
been running the sphere in Vegas and getting that off
the ground, and obviously that's a great win for mister Dolan.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
But sitting in on.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
The exit interviews and all of a sudden boom, the
head coach has gone, you have to wonder did he
hear something he didn't like?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, we know that that.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Just something did not come from Jalen Brunson, who staunchly
defended his coach. After the Knicks were eliminated by the Pacers.
We had a reporter say, well, what do you think
about TIBs? Is you got to make it back? And
Brunson was like, is that a real question? We know
Brunson liked Tips, He's known Tim since he was a
young guy. Rick Brunson, his father who's the Knicks staff,
(03:01):
played for the Knicks, and like, there's a lot of
internal stuff. Bruns into Thibodeaux were a copacetic. But what
we do know is that Josh Hart had beef at
points this season with Thibodeau and Mikale Bridges. As recently
as the middle of March piped up why aren't we
playing our bench?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Why are we playing so many minutes? What's going on here?
Speaker 5 (03:22):
I mean?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And the numbers bear it out.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
The Knicks starters averaged more points per game than any
other starting unit in the last forty five years in
the NBA. Tibbs does not trust his bench, right, That's
very well known. Happened in Chicago. Unfortunately, after that, you
thought Derek Roseware down, you start Joe King Noah like
these guys' careers Luell Dang, your careers kind of ended
early because Tibbs ran him into the ground, and.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
The Knixt players clearly pushed back on that.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Bridges actually mentioned in March, Yeah we got Landry Shammitt.
Why is any planning more? Well, Tibbs, I guess saw
the light and started playing Landry Shammon in the Pacer series.
But fortunately it was a little bit too late. Landry
Shammack couldn't save the day. So now you have to wonder, like,
does this change the trajectory of say, Carl Anthony Towns.
(04:12):
Now we know he is a TIBs guy dating back
to Minnesota, Is he all of a sudden on the
trading block? Like what happens Mikhail Bridges, who has had
for five first round picks and is looking for a
big money extension.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Do you pay him?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Do you try to get three guys to create him
and the aggregate next year? Does this mess everything up?
But most importantly, where do the Knicks head for a
head coach? And I do want to quickly defend Tives.
Just give me a second. There was a nineteen year
stretch where the Knicks won one playoff series. Okay, Thibodeau
has won four in the last three seasons.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
He has been successful. Okay, this under Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Five seasons, four playoff appearances, and you see that winning
record there. I know this is gonna be surprising. He
has more wins with the Knicks than pat Riley. It's
just a mind blowing stat Like, Tom Thibodau's been great.
And we should also add before Tims came on board,
eighteen seasons, twelve different head coaches, so they finally get
(05:14):
their act together. And now we're back in the head
coaching cycle for the Knicks. Who's going to be the
next head coach? Well, you know, at the top of
next hour, I'm going to reveal my five top names
to replace Thibodeau, and then a really spicy name that
I haven't really seen bandied about. It doesn't seem realistic,
but I think there could be some potential there.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
What's going to happen next with the Knicks?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Now, I do want to pivot to a really explosive
report in The Athletic about Kevin Durant, and oh boy, folks,
it don't look good for Kevin Durant. Let me start
here by saying, Kevin Durant is one of the fifteen
greatest players in the history of basketball.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Full stop, we all agree.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
The guy won an MVP, carried OKAC to the finals,
goes to Golden State, wins two finals MVPs. His resume
speaks for itself. Kevin Durant has had an incredible career.
It's inarguable that. Being said, we know, sports are what
have you done for me lately? And in some ways,
(06:18):
you know, Kevin Durant is the guy who used to
be an A list actor and get all the first
look at scripts, and now he's not getting any looks.
I mean Nick Cage comes to mind. You know, won
an Academy Award for leaving Las Vegas.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
What has that guy done?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Lately.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Where's Nick Cage the last ten years? Can he open
a movie? No shot?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I mean Will Smith. Will Smith has an unbelievable movie resume.
I mean, I Am Legend is like probably one of
my top ten movies of all time. I love Will
Smith as an actor again, Like, is he getting any
good looks anymore? What are they starting filming Bad Boys for?
You know, like that's where Kevin Durant is in his career.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I don't know if anybody wants them.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And I know what the trade deadline, there were teams
in and talking to the Suns. You had reports. I'm
gonna put those in air quotes, reports that five teams
wanted Kevin Durant. Well, the latest report in the Athletic
is that the Phoenix Suns keep calling the Houston Rockets,
and the Suns keep lowering their asking price. Kevin Durant
(07:18):
is thirty six, and we know he's still a bucket. Okay,
that's that's obvious. Kevin Durant, he can give you twenty
five points a night.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
That's great. Yeah, so can Moe Wagner and Jalen Green.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
I mean, these guys are ten years younger and they
can score almost what Kevin Durant does. And Kevin Durant
is also kind of an ordery, prickly fellow who oh,
by the way, has not been great in the playoffs lately.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Guys.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
The super team sons, yes, d Book Durant and Bradley
Beal qualifies as a super team. That's three all NBA
players joining forces. They didn't make the playoffs this year. Okay,
Kevin Durant has been swept in two of his last
three trips to the playoffs, and yes, both were with
super teams. Need I remind you the super team fiasco
(08:06):
in Brooklyn, which is really deserves its own thirty for
thirty it was a Hindenburg.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
They got swept in his last playoff appearance by Jason
Tatum and the Celtics. Kevin Durant in the postseason is
not what we he used to be. Again, you could
love KD and he's a bucket, but he's turning thirty
seven in September. Here's Rick Buker earlier this week talking
about the trickiness of how to move Kevin Durant.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
The tricky part is are you just getting him as
a one year rental or is he going to sign
an extension. Do you want to sign him to extension?
What does that extension look like? There's a lot of
tricky parts to that. To your point, because of Kd's age.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
I just don't know what the market is for Kevin Durant.
So I started looking at the standings and teams that
could be close and looking at Kevin Durant's fifty four
million dollar contract next year, and yeah, okay, he's going
to give you twenty five twenty seven points a game.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
He don't want to be a leader. So if you
expect Kevin Durant to go to a young team and
maybe be that leader, be.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
That agent of change who's gonna take them up the
next step, and I'll toss one out there. You know,
Kevin Durant went to the University of Texas. He loves Austin,
has a very big affinity for the city. Hey, the
San Antonio Spurs, could that work? Wem Ben Yama dieron
Fox Kevin Durant, Maybe that's something. And then you look
(09:30):
at what the Spurs are and you're like, okay, well,
we're not giving up Stefan Cassel for to rent Kevin
Durant for one year.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Is wem Ben Yama and KD? Is that doing anything
in the West?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And I look around the Houston Rockets, Folks, they would
rather chase Giannis than go after Kevin Durant. I mean,
I don't you know. A couple of years ago, Kevin Durant.
You know, he grew up in the DC area.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
It's a legend in Maryland growing up.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And I floated the idea, why wouldn't he go to
the Wizards, you know, and join forces with like John
Wall and Bradley Beal. This is way back, and it's
like Wizards are one of the worst teams in the
league right now. I mean, is that the kind of
thing where we're gonna see Kevin Durant end up on
a bad team? Somebody in our morning meeting floated, what
about the Atlanta Hawks, KD, Trey Young, Jalen Johnson coming back.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
From I don't know. And again, I'm a huge Kevin
Durant fan.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Yes, we've had our online beefs a few times over
the years, but I love him as a basketball player.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I don't love the I just want to hoop. I
don't want to be a leader thing. I mean, could we.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
See him in Detroit to help the Pistons get over
the top. But then you look at the Pistons salaries
and it's like, Okay, are we dumping any of our
good young players? Hey, we need on sar Thompson. You're
not getting him, not for Kevin Durant for one freaking year.
And the more we talk about KD and you read
stories about the Sun's lowering their asking price, you start
to wonder, like, she's other son's gonna have to attach
(10:54):
a draft pick, assuming they have any left to get
off Kevin Durant. Are we in a where Kevin Durant
is close to ending his career like Patrick Ewing did
with the Seattle Sonics.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You guys remember a Lajahwan wearing a Raptor's jersey.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
I mean, Karl Malone's sitting on the bench with the Lakers,
Like we're not this is like a year or two away.
Maybe for Kevin Durant, He's either gonna have to have
a big reality check and understand, dude, I'm not that
guy anymore. Or Kevin Durant's gonna have to change his
ways and say, you know what, I will be a
leader for a young team because if I need twenty
(11:31):
five points.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I'll go get Tyler Hero.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Sorry, I don't think Kevin Durant's defense is that superior
to what you're getting at fifty four million playing the
position he does. And I'll leave you with this, like, again,
I don't want to be seen as taking jabs at
Kevin Durant, but at this stage in the game.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like, what do you do with him?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Is there a world where nobody wants Kevin Durant? As
shocking as that sounds, I think we're getting close to
Kevin Durant not really getting the interest that he thought
he would, so he goes super Teams and now he
goes kind of out with a whimper.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
All right.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Coming up next here on the Herd, an NFL Star,
Yes Star is throwing around the R word retirement.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
We'll tell you who that is next here on the Herd.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and neon Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Back here on the Herd, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd.
I don't know about you, guys, but I know a
lot of dudes who do this. You know, you're on
a vacation and you instantly think like, oh man, I
can't wait to retire, and you start bandying about retirement plans.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Where you'd go.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Obviously you got to be in a nice area, ideally
near an airport, because you want to travel a lot
in retirement. But everybody loves thinking about retirement, but not
quite like NFL players do U. Saquon Barkley, who is
just coming off like one of the greatest running back
seasons we've seen two thousand yards, goes to the Super Bowl,
(13:11):
wins the Super Bowl. He went on a podcast this
week with Chris Long, the green Light Podcast, and out
of Nowhere.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Saquon Barkley starts talking about retirement. Here we go.
Speaker 9 (13:22):
I'll probably want those guys that it'll be out of nowhere,
Like I'll probably just wake up one day, whether it's
next year or two years or four like, and it's
be like, yes, it's over. One of my favorite players
of all time is probably my favorite play all time
is Barry Sanders, So probably similar to that, maybe one day,
like it'll be out of nowhere, I'll probably ballin and
just be like, yeah, call it quits now.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I will say that sounds pretty amazing. Obviously, Saquon Barkley's
made generational wealth in you know, just a small run
here in the NFL over the last decade, and we've
seen other big time names retire early Barry Sanders obviously
a Saquon alude to Aaron Donald, Calvin Johnson, and you
(14:03):
never know how like a franchise is gonna shake out.
So I'm sure some Eagles fans heard this and we're like, oh,
we might lose, say quad, Oh no, it's gonna be okay, guys,
take a deep breath.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I did not realize this. I had to look it up.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So the Philadelphia Eagles from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty
four have the fifth most wins in the NFL in
that span. The only teams with more wins the Chiefs obviously,
the Baltimore Ravens, who uh, let me see here. No,
they haven't made a Super Bowl in that duration. The
Buffalo Bills, have they made a Super Bowl? No, they
(14:41):
have not, the Green Bay Packers, and the Phildelphia Eagles.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Eagles at five guys.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
In the last eight years, the Eagles have made the
Super Bowl three times, two.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
A Jailen Hurts and woman Nick Foles.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Nick Foles obviously filling in for the injured Carson Wentz.
I guess what I'm getting at here is I get it.
Saquon will be a huge loss. Like you know, you
saw Christian McCaffrey go down for the Niners last season.
They were kind of lost because McCaffrey does so much.
Saquon does a lot of that with the Eagles and
did it this past year as good as you can imagine.
(15:16):
But if he leaves, are the Eagles in like rough shape?
I like to say running backs matter. We've gone back
and forth on the show over the last couple of years,
like running backs are back.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
They matter. They're almost undervalued. I mean there's tight ends
in the league. And I'm not talking the elite guys.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I'm not going second tier guys who were making Saquon
Barkley money last year. Like, you know, something's up with
that tight ends again, like maybe eight targets a game,
maybe ten. Saqua touched with the ball twenty to thirty
times a game, and the idea of losing him probably
scares some Eagles fans, But I'm gonna remind you they
(15:53):
got to the Super Bowl with Nick Foles. You can't
even name the running backs that they got to the
Super Bowl with the first time with Jalen Hurts, and
so now they get Barkley, and yes they win the
super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Obviously, very very nice. But let's not act like it's
the end of the world.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
If Saquon Barkley wants to, I don't know, enjoy a
media career down the road. I'm sure he'll start a podcast.
Everybody does. But I think the Eagles are gonna be
just fine. And I got to give Howie Roseman some credit.
I will say one of the bigger whiffs I've had
in the last fifteen years was Chip Kelly ascends to
(16:29):
the Eagles and right out of the gate they're really good.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Remember Chip Kelly, Mike Vick. I still remember that.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
First game together, Mike vic throwing an unbelievable bomb. I
was like, Ah, this is gonna be the greatest show.
And then Chip Kelly had like that war in the
front office with Howie Roseman and Chip Kelly for a
minute won that battle, and I was like, team chip Kelly.
He's a football guy. The guy was a genius at Oregon.
I'm all in on Chip Kelly. It petered out pretty quickly.
(16:55):
Howie Roseman gets back in good graces and whatever he
learned during that time of being jettison by Chip Kelly.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Howie Roasman figure things out.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
I mean, this guy has clearly become one of the
sharpest minds in building a roster in the league. And
I looked at the Eagles roster. You could go pro
football focus wherever you want. They got young studs everywhere, cornerback,
defensive line, linebacker.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
This team is stacked. Remember when they lost their center,
there was some concern.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Oh you know, Kelsey, one of the best centers in
the league.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Didn't miss a beat.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
They just seem to find guys everywhere, and a lot
of that goes to Howie Roasman. So I know Saquan
would be a huge loss to the Eagles and obviously
the NFL.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
He's fun and exciting.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
He's on the cover of Madden had this seminal move
in the NFL last year, jumping backwards over a dude.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
But I think the Eagles are going to be just
fine because.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
They're built for the long haul. Let's go to Alex
Curry with the news.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Turn on the news. This is the hard line jama.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
I also don't have a problem with guys going out
at the top of their career health right, that's like,
that's that's legendary. Okay, Well, officially the Summer of Soccer
on Fox and US men's national team head coach Urisio
Pettina was on the podcast recently and made some bold
claims about American soccer star Christian Polistic, comparing him to
one of the best soccer players of all time.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
Take a listen.
Speaker 10 (18:24):
I think Christian in the last year, I think it
was showing a great quality and he's performing, you know,
in Europe and also he's performing here in the national team.
He is a very talented player that can't help us
to win.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Of course, I.
Speaker 11 (18:39):
Don't want to be respectful with Messi or with with Messi,
but I think in this country policy should be ours
because he's an iconic player and the kids on the street.
For sure, if you as one soccer player in this country,
is policy.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
So yeah, obviously, this is what the US has been
struggling with for decades. We don't have a superstar, and
we're not winning at the international level, at these international tournaments.
And if you want to be a popular team across
any sport in the United States.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
You want to win.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
That's what people follow.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
They follow winners, and I think that's that's what needs
to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
It sounds like.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
They got the right guy.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
I mean, Putchettino has coached like Bape, Messi Neymar Harry Kane,
Pie Palmer.
Speaker 6 (19:32):
Like he's coached some of the biggest names.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
They just hired him last September, and he's I mean,
he's done a lot of great things for other teams.
He led Tottenham the Champions League final in twenty nineteen,
Psg'd to League One title in twenty twenty one. So
like he has a track record of taking teams and
taking him to the top. But the one thing the
United States, the US men's national team has lacked is
(19:57):
the results in the t to compete with the rest
of the world. And that's what you need.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I'm always reluctant when guys are going to invoke like
the greatest of all time? Can't I mean, but then again,
it gets pick up when he says message.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
If he says, oh, he could be our Harry Kane, Yeah,
I don't. We're probably not doing the segment. However, you know.
I'm a soccer guy.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
I know.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
I made sure we got a Lexi Lawless on the show,
so he's coming in later. I'm not sure when this
podcast was recorded, because there's a lot of polistic stuff
right now that is not good, Like he's not gonna be.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Playing with us.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
But there's also like a lot of their key players
aren't playing with the team this summer. So it's not
just sick, it's there's a handful of guys, and I
think it was like, well, if they're all not going
to be there, like, yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
But why do I need to be.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
They're not the face of the team, They're not the
leader face of the Lallas is probably going to go in.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
Oh yeah, we're gonna doubt him to that.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I'm looking forward to that. But I want to give
this coach a chance. So I'm not a big deal
out of this. No, let's just win some fring games
about that.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
That's we need to see results.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
We need to see results at the internet action level
at these big tournaments.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
Yeah, that's what we need to see.
Speaker 7 (21:04):
And then and then let's have a conversation about it.
Like our US women's national team back to back World
Cup champs Olympic gold medal champions, Like, that's what you
need to do if you want to gain subtraction and
a fan base and a face, a face of the country.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
And superstar like a messy, that's what you need to do.
All right, let's transition to the NBA.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Adam Silver was on breakfast Ball this morning and the
addressed the conversation around small markets like okay See in
Indiana making the NBA finals.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
Here he is earlier today.
Speaker 12 (21:34):
It's been intentional from our standpoint to create a system,
a collective bargaining agreement that allows more teams to compete.
And just by way of background, you know, we're going
to have to go through a process of getting to
the point where people are accustomed to tuning into the
finals because the two teams that deserve to be there
and it's the best basketball. Similar to again with the
(21:56):
super Bowl. If I asked somebody if they were going
to watch the super Bowl, they.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Wouldn't say who's playing.
Speaker 12 (22:00):
It's a national holiday and now that's nirvana.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
But the super Bowl, every team has superstar players. These
small market teams in the NBA don't necessarily have that
star power that's gonna drive ratings and it's gonna drive
people to plan their days and plan their events around
these NBA Finals. Like I hang out with a lot
of casual sports fans, fifty to fifty sports fans, and
(22:25):
I've named off like a couple of the stars in
the finals, and I saw blank faces. I'm like, Okay,
this is gonna be a situation where if it's on,
if you're somewhere and it's on the background, you're gonna
turn around be like, oh cool, NBA Finals, not plan
your whole day around.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
Okay, let's get together, let's get here. Let's go here
and make sure we're that for this game.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So you've seen the movie The Karate Kid Up. It's
legendar movie.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Definitely top ten so after sorry for the spoiler alert
on a movie.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
From the nineteen eightens. But Daniel uses the crane kick
takes down Johnny.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, and then and.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
They show Pat Marita aka mister Biagi just kind of
nodding his approval.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
You know, that's like a mean yes.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
When I hear Adam Silver saying it's been intentional.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Uh huh, that's what I said. That's why all these
people yelled at me.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Oh, let's know, Yeah, I'm sure, the league, what's Indiana
and Okay, see Adam Silver is saying, yes, that's what
we want.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
That's why we have new rules. I was frigging right,
I'm sorry I had to do.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
Guys, now, you were because you think it's what you want,
and then when they see the ratings and the results,
you're gonna have to kind of rethink that.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
So we I've been workshopping something.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Major League Baseball, yeah, has not had a back to
back champion in like twenty or twenty something like that,
a long over two decades.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Yeah, back in the Yankees. Yeah, the Yankees were the
last early two thousands.
Speaker 8 (23:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Yet somehow in the last few years they seem to
be going back toward super teams.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Yeah, Yankees and Dodgers World Series.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
They're going towards super team. Yes.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
The NBA is saying we don't want super teams, Alex.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
It's gonna hurt you.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I'm just telling you. I said yesterday, Yeah, give me
super teams or give me death. And I'm just telling
you right now we need stack teams in the NBA
with stars merging to get the polarization going.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I know the diehard fans are could be like, oh, Jason,
this is gonna be great, basketball man. Nobody cares.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
You have to remember sports are entertainment.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
People want to be entertained, and the way you draw
in the casual fan is big names and superstars. You
see this in movies and TV shows. It's the same
thing with sports. When you have a recognizable name and
a big face of the league or face of the
franchise or a super team, it's going to draw people
(24:57):
to watch the game, to create their events around the game.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Like you're gonna get the rating, you're gonna.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Get the viewership, you're gonna get the jersey sales right there.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Okay, but I just thought of this. So the Pacers
are huge under him.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Right, yes, Mina, I think Indiana is. Sorry, Okay, he's
like minus seven hundred, eight hundred.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It would be great for the NBA.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Yeah, if the Indiana Pacers won the series. Yeah, and
then Okayse said we gotta go get Kevin Dood bring
him back.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
That's the kind of thing. Ye would be freaking amazing.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
It would be because the fans had and.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Now they need you. Well, if they lose to the Pacers,
they need something.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
You can't run it back. Losing to Indiana as heavy favorites. Okay,
I agress, no.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
Hot tape, very it's a hot spice ons he needs
a home and Mark Bridy wants going down. Okay, last
story here Austin and he has hired a new president
of basketball operations for the Utah Jazz and he comes
from Boston where he started his ending where in both cases,
Austin's dad, Danny, played a prominent role on the team.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
That hired Austin. So I don't I don't care what
you say. This is a NEPO baby situation.
Speaker 7 (26:14):
He was hired by his dad in Boston now in Utah.
But again, like it's not necessarily a bad thing, right.
He grew up around the game, he worked his way up,
but he got his foot in the door and got
an upper hand because of his dad. His dad played
a prominent role in both of his hirings. Similar situation
when everyone was getting mad at lebron James for Bronnie
(26:37):
getting drafted.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
So I want to see that same kind of.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
Energy, in that same kind of fire in this situation
because it is like you got into a certain situation because.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Your father was also involved in that situation.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
And again I don't think like nefyl baby is necessarily
a bad thing in all situations. Because you grew up
in that setting, you are probably more prepared and suited
for a lot of these situations like this, and you're
still putting in the work and you're still working your
way up.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
But yes, this is a neo baby situation on the
executive side.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
So, by the way, did you read that article in
the New York magazine like oh, three years ago about
NEPO babies.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
It's like a lot of them.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Have actually done good things after given the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yes, shocker, how that works.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
You just get a foot in the door and then
you have to do the work.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You have to do the work.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
So like Bronnie had his chance up and down, whatever.
Speaker 6 (27:36):
He's a bad thing, you're now up in the situation.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Your article Monday was he's gonna be maybe a rotation. Yeah, okay,
you've got a chance for this for him. Yeah, I
will say this about age if he was so great
in Boston, Yeah, for I think I saw sixteen seventeen years.
Why did nobody else make a run on it? And
then his dad hires him? Utah, Again, I'm not saying
(28:01):
he's not worthy. No, And Danny Angel is a legend
you want.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
To BYU liked multiple sport athletes.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Like really one of the greatest athletes in the state's history.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
He's gonna be able to call these shots. So I'm
with you.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yeah, if you want to bash Nippo babies, you got
to go after Dana and they.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Did it yet.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
But Alex, I'm gonna go ahead and yes, yes that
nobody gives a flying You know what about the Utah Jazz.
You think every year and you know, for being real,
here the Jazz were the worst.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Team in the league.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
They tank, They wanted the number one pick, they ended
up at five. But you can't tank again, Well, like,
what's the point, So you're gonna have to actually do
some work.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I'm wishing this guy the best. Again, I'm not bashing it.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
He was out with championship team, like he's been around here.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
He was with the Celtics.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Yeah, so it's.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
He's been in the game for a while.
Speaker 6 (28:50):
He knows what he's doing. So you know, prove yourself.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Can he make a big move and say, hey, I
have a great relationship with Jalen Brown, Let's trade for
Jalen Brown.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I'm just spitfall. Obviously, they're not gonna be cheap.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
I'm not gonna say anything could happen this summer, but
it just feels like maybe something is afoot.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Utah is going to make a big splash.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah we should, Yeah, Alex scurry with the news.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Heard Line News.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Wow, how about this tease? Who was behind the ouster
of Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
In New York.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
We head to the Big Apple to find out next
what happened to Tom Dibbodeau.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern nan am Pacific.
Speaker 13 (29:33):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
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We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
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(29:55):
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Take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
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Speaker 3 (30:32):
Welcome back into the herd.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
We got to go to New York now to figure
out who put the knife and Tom Thibodeau's back sot
to Mitch Lawrence, who's covered the Knicks forever, NBA writer
host Sirius XM. He's got an amazing background there as
you can see. All right, Mitch, So we were talking
during the commercial break and you described the garden as
a pit full of vipers.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Can you kind of break down what happened?
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Because Thibodeau just led the Knicks to their best season
this century.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
And then he gets asked.
Speaker 14 (31:03):
Yeah, I mean he had the best playoff run since
nineteen ninety nine, and the fans were partying like it
was nineteen ninety nine, and all of a sudden, he's
the guy who's the scapegoat. It is Listen, the Garden
front office is full of vipers. These are guys who
have their own agendas, whatever they are, They leak stuff
to the media. They want certain people and certain people out,
(31:26):
and they had it in for Tom. It goes beyond basketball, Jason.
It goes beyond he didn't develop a bench. It goes
beyond guys didn't know their roles. It goes beyond, you know,
he didn't have an offensive imagination. This goes beyond all
that stuff. And now we're gonna see who Jim Dole
and the owner, you know, who gets his ear and
who he talks to, and who they settle on as
(31:47):
the next coach and say this is what I when
I was, you know, based in New York and at
the New York Daily News doing twenty one years of
NBA columns, This was familiar ground for anybody who dealt
with the Knicks and dealt with Jim Dole. It is
a it's a it's a treacherous place if you're a coach,
because you're the guy who's the face of the franchise.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
They don't let Leon Rose talk.
Speaker 14 (32:08):
Dolan doesn't talk, so Tom Thibodeau was the guy who
had a talk.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
They don't help.
Speaker 14 (32:13):
Nobody's held accountable in terms of Leon Rose or Jim Dolan,
and you know, stuff like this happens. It's a very
it's run differently than any other organization, and it's been
unsuccessful in a lot of ways. You know, it's the
anti Spurs, anti Miami, whatever you want to call it.
They do things their own way, and for the most part,
(32:34):
before Time came on board, they were irrelevant and a
dumpster fire and they I think Nick fans probably fear
now that's the road they're headed back on.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Yeah, especially if you don't make the right higher. So
who would you say has the biggest poll or the
most poll in making the higher? Is it Dolan who's
kind of been out of the mix. You know, he
was with the Sphere in Vegas building.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That is it?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Leon Rose? Do the players have us say here?
Speaker 4 (33:02):
We know it's the Players League I mean, Jalen Brunson
couldn't save TIBs.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
But how do you break that down?
Speaker 14 (33:08):
Well, Jalen Jalen Brunson liked TIBs, so he and they
didn't listen to him. So you also have to wonder
what that means for him, especially if they get rid
of his father who's on the bench. I think that
has to be a concern for Nick fans too.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Listen.
Speaker 14 (33:21):
I think it's going to probably be a few people.
It'll be Leon Rose, They'll run it by Dolan. Dolan,
will you know, do his checks. It's hard to tell.
It's it's because nobody really talks publicly. Like what they
should do is have Leon Rose out there today to say,
this is why we fired Tom tibbot All. I'm gonna
(33:42):
take questions and answers, and by the way, this is
what we're looking for in our next coach. Give people
an idea of what they're going for. But the Knicks
don't do things like that like other teams. They don't
make people. You know that pat Riley goes public after
his team gets wiped off the court against Cleveland and he's.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
On he owns up to stuff.
Speaker 14 (34:00):
The Nicks don't do that, so you never know their
game plan, so it's very hard to say exactly how
it's all gonna run, or who's gonna have the power,
who's gonna you know, who wants who out there. It's oh,
you're always dealing with a lot of mystery at the garden.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, and it feels like, I don't know if you
use the word accountability, but like Leon Rose, like, shouldn't
you step up and meet the media and talk about
this now?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I mean that seems like the way we should do it.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
No, everybody does it that way in the league.
Speaker 14 (34:30):
H I mentioned pat Riley Brad Stevens when thing went
south for Boston this year they're spending champs. He met
with the media, and then he had Darryl Morey and
Nick Nurse meet in Philadelphia. Nobody had a worst year
expectation wise than probably Philadelphia. Jim Dolan doesn't want his people,
like Leon Rose and other gms before him, to speak publicly.
(34:52):
He kind of has an ant you know, you hear
teams having a you know, a media policy. He has
an anti media policy. That's where as long aside you know,
for the longest time, and a lot of it dates
back to that sexual harassment case. And you know, post
that in twenty oh seven, that's already eighteen years where
Isaiah Thomas and the Knicks got in big trouble. It
costs doll in twelve million dollars. After that, the league
(35:14):
basically held sway David Stern over the Knicks. That's when
they hired Donnie Walsh. Jim Dolan listen to the NBA then,
but since then, he he does things his way. He's
not going to have Leon Rose at all talk to
the media. The next coach will be the face of
the franchise, just like Tom was. Tom Tibodeau, which adds to,
(35:35):
you know, the pressure of the job in New York.
Now you're the coach. Not only do you have the
coach the team prepared a team. Now you're also the
face and the voice of the franchise. Puts a lot
of pressure on that next coach. Besides the fact that
obviously the next coach has a very high bar. You
got to come in, You got to win eleven playoff
games because Tom just one y ten.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I'm gonna throw some names at you. You tell me
your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
But first, the Phoenix Suns have just announced that they
have hired Calvs assistant Jordan Ott. You know whoever that is.
I don't know that that is a move based on
what the Knicks are doing. But there is a guy,
Johnny Bryant, whose name has been bandied about as a
potential Knicks candidate. I don't think you go from Tom
Thibodeau to Johnny Bryant, do you.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Well?
Speaker 14 (36:22):
I don't think so either, but that doesn't mean it
can't happen. And he seems to be the front runner
right now. He was in New York. Now you mentioned
Jordan not getting the Phoenix job. Johnny Bryant was also
up for that job. So now he works in Cleveland
fair Kenny Atkinson, but he had been in New York.
He's familiar with the front office. People are familiar with him.
(36:43):
He's got people who will hope he gets his job.
He has people who, from my understanding, who hope he
doesn't get the job. Listen, if you think you're a
championship contender, and I don't think the Knicks are.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I think they're a decent cut.
Speaker 14 (36:56):
Below with that roster, with their two best players being
one way offense of pelayers and defensive liabilities, I'm talking
about Jalen Brunts and Karl Anthony Towns. You've built around
those those guys. I don't think you can bring in
a guy like a Johnny Bryant who's never been a
head coach certainly, you know, and all of a sudden
(37:16):
entrust him to actually exceed what Tom Thibodeau did. I
think that's an impossible spot for him. And I think
that's the thing that I think Nick fans have to
be worried about.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, Michael Malone was fired by Denver maybe two months ago. Yeah,
he feels like Thibodeaux two point zero doesn't like to
play young guys, rides his starters like that was an
issue for Tibbs.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I would cross Michael Malone off the list of your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Just based on that.
Speaker 14 (37:43):
Well, I will say this, if you go back to
his Denver team and now he had Jokic. I know
Sga is the MVP, but this is like back in
the Michael Jordan era, Well, Carl Malone won the MVP.
We all knew that Michael Jordan was the best player
in the world, just like now we know that Jokic
is the best player in the world. He only had
a bench of basically three guys, Jeff Green, Bruce Brown,
(38:05):
and Christian Brett.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
They won the title that way.
Speaker 14 (38:10):
So if you're hung up on this bench, nonsense that
he won't play your bench.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
I mean, think of it this way.
Speaker 14 (38:18):
To Tom Thibodeau, is he really the first coach in
the history of the NBA and maybe sports to get
fired because he didn't he didn't develop a bench.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
It's absurd. It's absur. Look who's on his bench.
Speaker 14 (38:29):
Mike Malone had a great bench with those three players
versus what Tom Thibodau had to work with. But anyway,
that's a whole different story. I would hire Mike Malone.
He knows New York. His father coached in New York.
I knew Brendan Malone when he was an assistant in
Syracuse when I started out in the newspaper racket in
nineteen eighties. I go back that far when Michael Malone
(38:49):
was running around and basically diapers. Yeah, I think it's
the hell of a coach. Now ten years in Denver,
long time, won a title. Maybe got a little full
of himself, that's what people say.
Speaker 9 (39:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
I havn't talked to Mike since then. But he's a
very good coach.
Speaker 14 (39:03):
And let's not forget where was he before he landed
in Denver and did a great job their first title ever.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
He was in Sacramento. He did a great job there
for a franchise that continues to you know.
Speaker 14 (39:16):
I mean, that's just like total dysfunction out there except
for a few moments, right, except for a very few moments.
And Mike Malone did a good job there. I think
Nick fans would actually say, you know what, if we
got Mike Malone, yeah, we can go places and not
worry about what he did with his bench in Denver.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
Just look at his accomplishments.
Speaker 14 (39:34):
The only thing, though, Jason, is is he going to
come in You're gonna say, well, he had you know,
let's see how he does without.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yoga, without the basket player. Yeah, that's not all right.
Let me throw one.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
He's currently coaching the Dallas Mavericks and his name is
Jesse Kidd.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
He played with the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Obviously, he was not brought in uh to talk about
the Luca deal. He looked shell shocked at the press
conference afterward. Or the Nixon upgrade from the Maps.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
I don't know. Jason Kid's an interesting name.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
It is an interesting name.
Speaker 14 (40:08):
You know, if you look at the Knicks in terms
of where they are in the East, you know, Indiana
is there now. Boston's not gonna have Tatum for probably
a year, but they're gonna be back. You've got Detroit
on the rise or Orlando. We'll see what happens in
Milwaukee with Giannis. The Knicks, uh, you know they're gonna
(40:28):
they're probably gonna take a step back with a new coach.
I don't know how Jason First of all, he has
a job in Dallas. Like you raised the point with
his roster, He's not gonna have Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
For a while. He'll have Anthony Davis.
Speaker 14 (40:39):
We know that Anthony Davis cannot stay on the court
at points, but he's gonna get Cooper Flag. Right. It
sounds like they're gonna keep that draft picking up pick
Cooper Flag. So it would have to be some sort
of a trade to get Jason Kidd. They're gonna have
to get some sort of compensation. And who knows what
Nico Harrison and Patrick Dumont, the owner are thinking these
(41:00):
days about Jason Kidd. I have no idea all I
know is that the Mavericks fans are still I raped
that Luka Doncis is a Laker that has not gone away.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Yeah, all right, Mitch Lawrence, NBA writers, serious, serious XM hosts.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Great stuff. I like the blue Knick's shirt turtleneck. Nice job, Mitch,
thanks a lot.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
Man, thanks for having me. Jason enjoyed it.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yeah, interesting stuff. He's bullish on Michael Malone.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
I was pushing Michael Malone's name a month ago when
the Knicks were struggling against Detroit and I was like,
I don't know, if they can't get by Detroit, just
get TIBs out of here, bringing Malone.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Then they beat the Celtics and I'm like, just keep TIBs.
So coming up next, I.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Will give you my top five mixed coaches wish list
and a special bonus.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
That's next year. I'm heard
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