August 18, 2022 • 40 mins
In hour 2, Colin in explains why he thinks its in the best interest to not take any reps away from now starting QB, Jacoby Brisset. Greg Cosell joins to talk George Pickens possibly being the best WR in the rookie class and what that should mean for Kenny Pickett.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Are you sure
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(00:27):
the Herd, our Number two show, flying by wherever you
may be and however you may be listening I Heart Radio,
Fox Sports Radio and f S one. J mack is
joining me, Greg Kosell in five minutes, Nate Newton three
times Super Bowl champ for the Cowboys, Last Hour, and
Nate's funny guy. Um So J Mack. Here is the
(00:48):
very latest. Deshaun Watson suspension begins August thirty. So what
is it today? It's the eighteenth, nineteen. What is it
to an eighteenth? Yes, sir, all right? So you twelve
more days to practice, then out of the facility. He
can return to the facility October tenth, cannot practice, but
(01:10):
can return to the facility to work out. Then five
weeks after October tenth, November fourteenth, then he can start practicing.
Per a league source, he's eligible to play December fourth.
So basically the dilemma for Cleveland is the division's pretty good.
I mean, we know that Baltimore and Cincinnati are in
(01:34):
the Super Bowl bubble. Pittsburgh's got a ton of talent,
so does Cleveland. But do you give Deshaun Watson these
three weeks of practice to get timing because in the
end he can't practice again until November fourteenth, So August
to September to October three months he's out of basically
about three months out of practice. If you do that,
(01:58):
then you are undermining Jacob ob Brissette. And the most
winnable games for Cleveland are the first four games. Those
are the really winnable games. You're not facing elite quarterbacks.
You get some of those at home, you'll be favored
I think in all four of those. Are they right
now this morning? Four? So they're favored in all four
of those games with Jacobe Brissette should go four and
(02:18):
oh should go because Atlanta's tanking. If you look at
the first four, first of all, you may not have
to face Zach Wilson in week two. We don't know
what Pittsburgh's doing at quarterback. They may be going to
Kenny pick at a rookie. Atlanta's tanking. So your first
four weeks, those are winnable games. They're favored my guests.
As they go three and one, I don't know. If
they win at Carolina, they certainly have much better players.
(02:41):
So if they go four and oh, then it's Belichick
who eats a live average quarterbacks. It's justin Herbert Lamar
Burrow two and his weapons Josh Allen Brady, then you
can play. So can they win that game at Miami
out of the bye week, which is key? Right, you
get the bye week, you rest if they row. If
they do, they're not beating Joe Burrow. They're not one
(03:03):
more win right after the first four if they can
get five and six. By the way, you presume that
when Watson comes back after very little practice, remember he
can resume practice November fourteenth and play December fourth. First
of all, a lot of people think Davis Mills, who
will be playing at home, is gonna be their franchise quarterbacks.
Say what you want. He completes a lot of passes.
(03:25):
Deshaun Watson looked horrible this past Weekend hasn't played for
two years, so it's very hard in your prime to
take two years off. I mean, that's just not the
way it works. So my takeaway is they have set
this up to make it really difficult on him, and
I believe they did not. They fought like crazy because
(03:45):
the NFL and the NFLPA agreed to this, and I
think the NFL said, you are not going to be
on the TV against Josh Allen and Brady the ascending
superstar quarterback and the Goat. You're not going to be
on TV for these games. You can come back and
play in Houston. That's not a TV game. Nobody cares.
So the NFL has been very smart through the years.
(04:07):
More than any league. They really use their TV schedule.
These are events nobody I mean, be honest, I mean
it literally always. If you start looking at some of
these games. They put Russell Wilson in Seattle Week one.
Nobody thinks Denver Seattle's good game? What makes it fascinating?
Seattle is not going to be a good watch, But
(04:27):
you'll watch Week one against Russell Wilson, right, Like, this
is what the NFL does. Baseball has never been good
at this has only recently started embracing events like the game.
In Iowa football, every week's an event. They really work
their schedule, and I think Goodell looked at that schedule
and say there's no way, and I think Fox, I
don't think. You know, we probably didn't want to Shaun
(04:48):
Watson be in our game of the week. So Josh
Allen Brady, Nope, you basically send him down to Houston.
Nobody watches it, And by that point, I don't think
Cleveland and national story. You'll cover his debut game. It
won't make national team. You'll cover it. But if he's
not very good, they're out of the playoff picture. But
(05:08):
the following week, nobody's it's not going to be a story.
The NFL doesn't want him in the playoffs. They don't
want him against Brady. I don't think they want him
against Josh Allen. And they made him pay a five
million dollars fine, which in the history of the NFL,
I don't I don't remember ever a player being fined
five million. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't remember him. Check
those final four games, Colin all winnable right versus Baltimore.
They might split with the Ravens. New Orleans coming to
(05:31):
Cleveland in Christmas weekend. That's going to be a tough
one for New Orleans. Then at Washington and Carson Wentz.
We don't think much of Washington and Pittsburgh. Now, if
you look closely, none of those games are primetime games.
As you alluded to, league doesn't want him in primetime.
But if they can go four and no down the
stretch and they're at six or seven wins, Colin, this
could be a ten or eleven win team. Yeah, could No, Nope,
(05:51):
I would bet. I would bet a sizeable amount that
this season will be done by the at Buffalo game.
So Vegas still has it as of now and a
half as their win total lives, I'll pound the under
on that. Love the under on that. By the way,
Minnesota is nine and a half, Cleveland's nine and a half.
I'm gonna go with Minnesota. Big. Those are not the
(06:12):
same teams. One's got a lot of momentum, a new
offensive coach, star weapons. I said as about Cleveland, if
Amari Cooper got hurt at wide receiver, it's the worst
wide receiving corps in the league with Jacoby Brissette. So
if because Cleveland's got a lot of talent. They got
one elite receiver one in the room. By the way,
Dallas has the same issue, but Michael Gallut may come back.
(06:33):
So let's move on to Gregg CoA sell forty two
years NFL films as we start our Thursday journey. So
let's talk football. So George Pickens looks like the steal
of the draft now steals a relative term second round.
It wasn't fifth. But if I recall, you were on
our show back in April touting him, were you not.
(06:56):
I was based on film and that's all I do.
I don't get into the character and the other issues
which teams do get into, which is why he did drop.
By the way, but I thought he was the best
receiving prospect in this draft class based on tape. I
thought he fit the profile of an NFL boundary X receiver,
the receiver that lines up to the short side of
(07:17):
the field and can win one on one. His body
type is similar to an AJ Green. He's very explosive
off the ball column. He eats up space in a hurry.
He's physical, he's competitive. I thought the tape said that
George Pickens was the best receiving prospect in this draft class.
I want to talk about Kenny Pickett. I said this.
(07:37):
I think it was yesterday or the day before Greg.
He has multiple advantages most rookie quarterbacks don't have. He
played all of his college home games at the same stadium.
He's twenty four, he was a four year starter. It
looks like they landed Pickens. The Steelers have stability, Mike Tomlin.
They've got an excellent young running back, an excellent young
(07:58):
tight end. This is not the way it usually works
for a rookie quarterback that you don't have stability a
top coach real weapons. You're twenty four, you started four years,
You played your home games in college at the stadium.
My takeaway was this, and I'll just throw it at
you if I'm Pittsburgh. If he's not ready now with
(08:18):
this stability, you got the wrong guy. Good God. We
gave Joe Burrow the dysfunctional Bengals, and even though he
got hurt in year one, by week two we were
all going, whoa, Tyler Murray dysfunction. Week two we're all
going WHOA. I kind of feel like you got to
roll the dice with Pickens. He has built in advantages
(08:39):
most rookies don't. Yeah, and I think they in some ways.
They've told you that they're saying all the right things now,
of course, which all teams do. But don't forget they
signed Trubisky. It's a deal they can get out of
after one year. They know what Truebisky is. Everybody does Colin.
Yet they drafted Kenny Pickett with the twentieth pick in
the first round. That really told you all you needed
(09:02):
to know. And when you watch Pickett, obviously it's one
preseason game. And I'm a firm believer, and I say
this all the time. I'm never defining a player's career
on a preseason game. But Pickett just has the look
and feel of an NFL quarterback. Yeah, he's strong in
the pocket, he's decisive, he's precise with his ball location.
Does he leave the pocket too soon at times? Yes,
(09:23):
that may come with experience. He can move, he has
second reactionability. I think Kenny Pickett is their best quarterback
and should be the Week one starter. Speaking of young quarterbacks,
Jordan Love got a look. He threw three picks. He
didn't get blamed for a couple of them. But this
is My takeaway, you got an offensive coach, it's a
(09:45):
non chaotic situation. You got Aaron Rodgers, who's a brilliant
guy in front of you. Good backs. You know, I
look at this and I think, okay, I'm moving into
year three here. I gotta see some growth. I gotta
see something now. There's too many of these guys pop
in year one. Justin Herbert, Hey, you're starting. He plays
the Chiefs, and it looks like immediately you got a guy.
(10:06):
Are you seeing growth with Jordan love Well, what do
you make of it? Yeah? I watched his preseason game,
and of course I saw him through his college career.
I still think he's a little inconsistent in some areas,
and maybe at this point in time, that suggests he's
not a true starting quarterback. His ball placement is too inconsistent.
(10:27):
It needs to be more precise. He misses too many throws,
and don't forget ball placement can also be a factor
on completions, not just incompletions, because run after catch is
a function of the quarterback more than the receiver. I
think his reads are still a little off at times,
So you know, maybe this is who he is. He
(10:49):
can make some phenomenal throws. He's got a big arm,
he's mobile, he looks the part. But I think there's
just some inconsistency and an erratic nature to some things
that are horton at the position, particularly decision making in
ball location. Okay, the ringer had a story today. Kyle
Shanahan admitted Trey Lance accuracy day to day. You get
(11:12):
good and bad. There's another source in the story that said, listen,
he had a practice recently. Nine final throws, eight were incomplete.
I watched him the other night. He hasn't thrown the
ball much in the last three years. Here's my takeaway.
You know, the Kyle Shanahan offense, is it a demanding offense.
Not all offenses are the same. Bruce Arian likes to
(11:34):
throw all the ball way over the top. Josh McDaniels
and Brady it was an efficiency offense, get the ball
out quickly. When you look at Shanahan's offense and Trey
Lance's potential accuracy issues, can he elevate Trey Can it work?
Can you win eleven twelve games if you don't have
a Joe Burrow as a thrower of the football. It's
(11:56):
a great question, and I think it is a demanding
offense for the quarterback in terms of the kinds of
throws they ask him to make. Now, some of that
could change because Lance has a bigger arm. For instance,
with Jimmy Garoppolo, what did we mostly see, Colin, We
saw throws between the numbers. Yes, and you can say
what you want about Jimmy Garoppolo, but he threw those
balls with conviction and he was a very good thrower
(12:18):
between the numbers. Every once in a while he'd throw
a head scratcher and we'd all you say, oh, he stinks,
but he didn't stink. He was asked to make a
lot of difficult throws. Now, Garoppolo did not have a
big arm, did not throw outside the numbers much at all,
and did not throw the deep ball real well. Lance
does have a big arm. He can throw outside the
numbers and he can throw the deep ball. So the
(12:39):
question is does Kyle tweak his offense and tweak certain
things because Lance can do certain things better than Garoppolo,
but then he can't do things that Garoppolo can do.
But the accuracy always becomes an issue at times, and Lance,
to me still has a little extra hitching his Giddea
app and his delivery and fractions in this league matter,
(13:02):
as you well know. So I think Lance will be
a work in progress. You know, you were for years
and years you had a different opinion on Russell Wilson,
and over time you were probably right that he was
creating some of his own sacks that you had said
for years, five years ago, you're like, this stuff, this
(13:24):
isn't ad lib. It looked like it's planned ad lib.
You always found him a little bit of an enigma.
And of course last year he gets hurt and has
his worst year. So now he moves to a Denver
offense which has two really good backs, a veteran and
a young back, better roll line than he had in Seattle,
and some interesting weapons here. There's a lot of youth,
(13:46):
but there's some really nice weapons here. And I'm interested,
how do you think project how you think he fits
and he finally gets an offensive coach, how he fits
in Denver? Well, this to me is one of the
most intriguing sort of coach quarterback mixes of this season
because Russell Wilson, there's certain throws that he can't make,
(14:08):
not because he's not capable of making the throw because
he's just small. So if you're going to have the
quarterback be the foundation of your offense in the sense
that you want to throw the ball thirty five forty
times a game, keep in mind, Colin, there's a lot
of short throws. There's a lot of sustaining throws. You know,
(14:29):
you can look at it Tom Brady. How many times
does he throw a five yard ball and at second
and five then he might throw another five yardball and
he gets a first down. When you when the quarterback
is the foundation, there's a lot of short throws. And
I can tell you for a fact from talking to
coaches who've coached him, there's some throws he can't make
because he can't see ye. So the question becomes, can
(14:50):
he be that guy? We know he throws a great
deep ball, we know he can drive the football, he's
got a very good arm. We know about his second
reaction ability. But they've all so got two good backs,
one in Javanta Williams, who I think can be special,
and a pretty good old line. So what is their
offense going to look like? Is this going to be
a Russell Wilson offense or is this going to be
(15:12):
a balanced offense. So my favorite part of the show
when I pat myself on the back so years ago,
seven or eight years ago, I said, I know y'all
love Aaron Rodgers, but I see stuff I don't love.
I think on the sidelines he can be a finger pointer,
an eye roller. I think sometimes he now just throws
off the back foot. I think he plays better with
(15:33):
a lead than behind. I think sometimes he checks out
if he has a couple early picks, it's like he's
protecting his passer rating. He is reluctant. He can be
reluctant throwing to people unless he absolutely trusts them. We
saw that in the playoff game against San Francisco. So
years and so I'm seen as a Rogers hater, but
I've said before I prefer him over Farv, who was
(15:53):
too much gunslinger for me and harder to coach. I
like Aaron, but I do think there are things in
his past. He really takes a long time to build
trust with him, and we've seen this in his personal life.
So I look at this young receiving corps. I got
old Sammy Watkins, who can't stay healthy. I got Amari Rodgers,
who couldn't get on the Field. I got three rookies,
(16:14):
and I think to myself, Okay, and Alan Lazard, I
think this could get really turbulent, this could this could
be really interesting. What do you kind of what's your
guests on how this a lot of moving parts and
not a lot of experience with Aaron? What do you
think it looks like? It's a great question because you know,
(16:35):
over the last two years, I thought Rodgers really settled
beautifully into Matte la Flora's offense, but of course he
had Davante Adams. Now he does not. I thought over
the last two years he played from the pocket at
a really high level. And say what you want about Rodgers,
maybe nobody has ever thrown the ball as well as
Aaron Rodgers. So that's not the question. The question is trust.
(16:57):
Is he going to play within the timing and structure
of the pass game if he does not feel comfortable
with his receivers and he has shown as you said
that if that's the case, he often does not turn
it loose. Colin, I'm very curious. Now, I loved Romeo Dubbs.
He's another guy whose tape I really loved, and actually
I compared his college tape to Davante Adams coming out
(17:19):
of Fresno. Now, a lot of people say, oh, Davante
Adams the best receiver in the league. But as you
recall the first couple of years of Davante adams career
as a second round pick, by the way, he did
not put up big numbers. There was a question as
to what he would become. He's obviously become great for
many reasons. But I think Dubbs has a similar athletic
skill set. Now, whether he turns into that, only time
(17:42):
will tell. But I think your point about Rogers is
very fair. Will he become more of a movement improvisational
random player because he does not feel comfortable turning it
loose within structure by the way. Rokuan Smith, so I
had a big rant yesterday and people in Chicago mostly
agreed with it. I said, listen, name a great receiver
(18:03):
in Bears history. You can't because they don't value it.
It's always been a defense first, tough guy city. We're
gonna punch in the mouth. We love our Mike Ditka,
we love our Brian Erlecker. That was great for a
long time. The world's changing. I mean, I watched the
Super Bowl where the Rams and the Bengals had suboptimal
linebacking play that used to be the position, the Lawrence Taylor,
(18:25):
the Ray Lewis. The world's changing. So Roquan Smith has
been there for a couple of years. He's not winning
your games. To me, if he wants a new contract,
I said, you have to consider getting somebody beyond cole
Comment and Moody to throw the ball to. You Gotta
make Justin Fields work. This thing has to work, and
so I think I think by and large many agree,
(18:47):
but I'm not denying Roquan Smith is there, maybe their
best player. So now he's got a defensive coach Justin Fields.
I don't love if you keep Roquan Smith with Matt Eberflus,
the new defensive coach. Do they work together? Does his
system work with this kid? Yes, because keep in mind,
(19:08):
Matt Eberflus is a very interesting defensive coach in the NFL.
Obviously he's the head coach now. On first and second down,
Eberflus is pretty even nell in what he does on
third down, He's incredibly multiple and incredibly difficult to play against. Okay,
and that's what offensive coaches in the league will tell you,
and keep in mind who he's just coached and who
(19:28):
have become really good players. We know about Darius Leonard,
Bobby O'KARAKEI has become a really good linebacker in Matt
Eberflus's system in Indianapolis. Then not a lot of people
talk about, but his tape is really good and he's
a really good player. So you could make the argument
from a football standpoint. You were talking bigger picture, Colin
about the quarterback, which is always critical, obviously, but you
(19:51):
can make the argument that Roquan Smith as a linebacker
is in a great position with Matt Eberflus as his
defensive coach because ebu Flus knows how to use linebackers,
particularly when he's in his sub packages. So Smith is, hey, look,
we don't begrudge anybody making a lot of money, Collin,
we know that, but he's in a really good spot
if he stays in Chicago. So let's talk Justin Fields.
(20:15):
I said this yesterday. I think at the end of
this year, we're gonna look at these five first round quarterbacks.
We're gonna acknowledge that Trevor Lawrence is the most talented,
that Trey and Mack are gonna win a lot of
games based on where they landed, and that Zach Wilson
and Justin Fields are not special enough to overcome some
(20:35):
dysfunction in the organization. That is my guess. I think
Fields looks the part your thoughts going into year two
and a full time starter for Justin Well. I think
you could make the argument Colin that Justin Feels as
a talent is more talented than Trevor Lawrence. I think
he throws the ball better, He's a phenomenal athlete. He's
(21:00):
he's I mean to Lawrence is a good athlete, but
Fields is a better athlete. Fields. Where Fields needs a
lot of work is sort of the subtleties and nuances
of the position. He still has a tendency to break
down and leave the pocket too early. He tends to
play a little too fast mentally, and now he's got
another coach going into a second year, so he's starting
(21:20):
from scratch. He needs to continue to learn to play
with more poise and patience from the pocket. So I
don't know where it's going to go with Justin Fields.
But I think Justin Fields is a high level talent.
But you know, again, he's starting over that's really hard
for young quarterbacks to start over year after year. Fired
(21:41):
up for it. Speaking of Trevor Lawrence, I'm gonna give
them credit. So they went out and got Christian Kirk,
who's not a He's not gonna go over the top
and blow away, but he's productive as heck. They went
and got the kids Za Jones, They went and got
Evan Ingram tight end. They got him an offensive coach.
And it's a wonky division. My takeaway is by the
(22:02):
end of this season, Jacksonville is gonna surprise people. I
mean right, I watched the Colts in the preseason. They
are what they were last year. They need more receiving,
they just don't have it. Tennessee lost their top receiver.
It's not a wildly explosive offensive division. And my takeaway
is by the end of the year, Jacksonville is gonna
be the best offense in that division. Am I nuts?
(22:27):
I don't want to say you're nuts. We don't know,
but I would say Lawrence And he's in the same
situation as Fields. Lawrence is starting over with a different offense. Obviously,
it's Doug Peterson's offense. His background is the Andy Reid
offense the West Coast methodology. You know, Lawrence is a strider.
He needs to shorten his stride. He needs to get
the ball out quicker. Lawrence does not have a big,
(22:50):
big arm, Colin. He's not a big time velocity thrower.
He doesn't have a bad arm. But he does not
have a gun an accuracy in ballplace than and be
a problem at times when he has when he rushes himself. Yeah.
So I'm really curious to see how he performs in
Doug Peterson's offense. I think it will be very defined
for him. I actually think his best trait is his
(23:12):
movement ability, and I don't need running the way we
think of Russell Wilson. I think Lawrence actually throws the
ball really well on boot action, whether it's to right
or to his left. Yeah, no, we've seen that before. Okay,
this is great stuff. Greg Kosell Thursdays, this time so
much vun great seeing you. Thank you again for coming on.
Thanks Colin, I really appreciate it. You bet. The breaking news,
(23:33):
of course, to Shaun Watson, the NFLPA and the NFL
have reached a settlement. He will be fined five million dollars.
Believe that's the most ever fine for an NFL player.
He will miss eleven games. He will be eligible to
play at Houston week thirteen. So it's Jacobe Brussette my
(23:53):
guests in a pretty tough schedule Week five through week twelve,
pretty tough. A lot of losses there. So my guess
is it the season for Cleveland is kind of just
surviving it, getting through it. He cannot come to the
facility to Shaun Watson once the season starts. He can't
come to the facility until October tenth. He can't practice
(24:17):
until November fourteenth, so when he's coming back, this is
not going to be smooth sailing. If you'll watch the
Shawn Watson this past weekend and I only saw one series,
it was rough. He has just not played in two years. Well,
the market, what about the market? A lot of chaos,
a lot of uncertainty. If you want exclusive insight from
(24:39):
the biggest names in the sports game, what's good? This
is national champion and former pro bowler Chris Johnson. Let
me tell you a little bit about my new series
kJ Live. J Live is the only show featuring me
going one on one with the brightest basketball minds on
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I mean that real. I got legendary Hall of famers,
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(25:03):
a unique perspective on all things hoops culture that you
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Live wherever you get your podcast from, be sure to
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not a Empacifaic. Saturday, It's Baseball Night in America on Fox.
(25:28):
Jose Alcube leads the Astros against Akuna Junior and the
Braves or Pete Alonzo and the Mets, but defend off
the surging Phillies or Mariners Ace. It all goes down
Saturday at seven Eastern on Fox. Check for the game
in your area. It's top heavy sport, but I will
say this, the top is really good. At Land is good.
The Dodgers are on fire. The Mats, who I think
(25:53):
are better than everybody. Houston. San Diego has been a
bit of a disappointment with all that talent. That's team
story is brutal, brutal. J Mack with the news no turns.
This is the herd line news. All right, Colin to
Shaun Watson, obviously the big story in sports today. We
reported earlier eleven game suspension, five million dollars fine. The
(26:18):
Browns posted a written statement on behalf of Watson in response,
saying quote, I'm grateful that the disciplinary process has ended
an extremely appreciative of the tremendous support I have received
throughout my short time with the Browns organization. I apologize
once again for any pain this situation has caused. I
take accountability for the decisions I made. My focus going
(26:40):
forward is on working to become the best version of
myself on and off the field, and supporting my teammates
however possible while I'm away from the team. I'm excited
about what the future holds for me in Cleveland. But
then Watson took a bit of a different tone when
he took to the podium moments ago Good Innocence and
(27:00):
always said that I've never sauted anyone or to suspect
to anyone, and if continue it's down that's But at
the same time, I have to continue to push forward
in my life, in my career, and for us to
be able to move forward, you know, I have to
be able to take steps and pet pride to the side.
Want to continue to stand on my innocence and keep
pushing forward. And I've always you know, stood on to
suspecting or sessional assaulting anywa oh boy cont So yeah, well,
(27:26):
the season is structured. The NFL, I think, got what
they wanted. Push him to the end of the season.
Don't want him on TV against Brady, don't want him
in the playoffs, and I think if you look at
the schedule, they're not going to allow him back in
the facility once preseason ends till October tenth, he can't
(27:46):
practice until mid November, can't play until early December. So
in the end, the NFL wanted a season. He said
he'd take eight games. They meet at eleven. I said
when it was six, I double at the twelve because
of the lack of transparency on this whole thing. But
in a negotiation, eleven feels like both sides feel like
(28:08):
the entire season isn't over, and the NFL got him
off the meat of the schedule and got him off TV.
Looking to the Football Aspect column, the Boys in the Desert,
they had hung a nine and a half wind total
for the Brown Pound justust it down to eight and
a half. Okay, that's their new win total for Brissette
slash Watson eight and a half on that that's I
(28:31):
think they're If I look at their schedule now, they're
they're a seven or an eight win team. So they're
not a ten win team. Just know where they faced
too many teams. Remember about Cleveland for just a moment,
putting to Shawn Watson aside. So Jacoby Brissette has been
in this league a long time. He is what he is.
He's an eighty three pass a rating quarterback and completes
(28:51):
barely sixty percent. That's what he is with one elite
receiver on the roster, Amari Cooper. So if Amari Cooper doesn't,
it's probably the most anemic passing game in the league
by a long shot. That's their reality. They need a
Mauri Cooper to be healthy to have any semblance because
Brissette's not Burrow, to have any semblance of a reasonably
(29:15):
bile passing game, biable passing game. So this is a
seven win team, is a team that's gonna have to
run the football, get an early league and everybody in
the defense and everybody in the league knows it. And
the other problems. The offensive line has had some injuries
the season, which kind of cripples that plan. If you
can't get Chubb and Hunt loose and you're playing from
behind with Brissette, I think it's a rap and you're
looking at maybe like a five, five or six win team. Yea,
(29:37):
all right, let's move on to the next story. Michael
Thomas remember him, Yeah, former a Saints receiver. Start with
the Saints. Actually, he suffered a few injuries after some
all pro seasons. He's been twenty six games since twenty nineteen,
including all of last season with an ankle injury. Despite
them as time, new coach Dennis Allen believes Thomas will
return to being one of the league's most productive receivers
(29:58):
this season, saying, quote, when the ball kicks off for real,
Michael Thomas is gonna be ready to go, and I'm
excited for that. I think he looks great. I thought
he looked a little better today than Tuesday. When I
watch Michael Thomas out of practice, I see Michael Thomas
that I saw pre injury, A big, strong, physical receiver
that makes a ton of contested catches. I saw it
in these practices. I kind of see that guy looks
(30:21):
pretty good. Do they have a guy to get it
to him? That's Jameis Winston. Yeah, that's a seven that's
another seven win team. Well, the receiver room was significantly upgraded,
obviously through the draft and free agency, so Thomas is
not going to face as many double teams as he
used to. Kamara, the suspension still up in the air. Um,
you think you don't think there's a playoff team? Huh No,
(30:42):
I we have no idea. It's a coach quarterback league.
Where's their coach in the top fifteen? Don't have a
top fifteen coach and don't have a top fifteen quarterback.
That's that's seven win territories tough sledding, all right. Third story,
if you've watched Hard Knocks yet Colin this season? Are you?
I've been into that at all? I saw the first one,
(31:02):
but not really. Yeah, I'm kind of yeah, it is. Yeah,
it's basically, let's put a mic in a bad football
team's locker room, and I feel like I get the
same thing every year. Yeah. So, anyways, it's a Detroit Lions.
They're featured running backs. Coach do Staley has really ridden
DeAndre Swift, the promising running back out of Georgia, hoping
to get the most out of him this season. Swift
(31:23):
has high expectations, believing he can have a one thousand
yard receiving end rushing season. He's a great player. Adding,
I know that it's a rare feat. I know with
running backs coach do Staley, the way he coaches me
and what I bring to the team, that it can
be done. Listen, I like, I actually think they're offensive talent.
First of all, I don't know where Pro Football Focus
(31:44):
has them ranked, but I believe this is a really
good old line. Now I could be to ten for sure. Oh,
I think I thought it looked at the end of
the last year. It's a real old line. I'm amarn
Saint Brown, and they brought the kid over from Jacksonville
DJ Shark Shark. Those are two legit receivers. T J.
Hawkinson's an excellent young tight end. Swift as a star,
(32:04):
and Jared Goff is fine. He's Matt Ryan with a
better deep ball. He's fine. So I think they're gonna
score points. And now I think they're a seven win
team too. But like a really promising seven win team.
I think they're seven, could go up to eight if
they win a close game. But I think Detroit's gonna
be a fun watch. They figured out the offensive side
(32:25):
of the ball. They just their issue is they can
only win by shootout. Last year, that's the only way
they could win. Yeah, listen, I'm a nerd who looks
at these schedules for gambling. Jared Goff has notoriously been
awful in cold weather. He has two cold weather games
late in the season against my Jets and the Packers.
So if they're kind of the fringe contending for a
wildcard spot, I think it's going downhill because I just
(32:47):
don't trust Goff. Colin cold Weather. Oh remember that Chicago
game on Sunday Night football. Let's not worry about December
with the Lions and Jets. This is what we do.
The Jets may disband the franchise by November. Jets into
the show for the fourth straight day. That's a little
game I got going on here, Colin. That's it. Jason
with the news, Well that's the news, and thanks for
(33:10):
stopping by the herd. You do always figure out a
way to just wedge a Jets topic into the show.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Kevin Stefanski just announced
that they're shutting Deshaun Watson down for the rest of preseason.
(33:32):
So Jacoby Brissette, there's only two preseason games now, they've
cut it from four to three. We've already had one.
So Cleveland is saying this is Jacoby Brissette's team, and
I think it's the right decision. Is that I don't
think you can take snaps away from Deshaun Watts from
Jacoby Brissette. He's he's a kid, this is a this
is a team that's got some talent. He needs reps.
And the winnable games on this schedule for Cleveland are
(33:55):
the first four weeks where you've got Zach Wilson hurt
for the Jets. Atlanta looks like they're tanking. These are
really winnable games for the Jets. Baker Mayfield, you know,
first start as a Carolina Panther behind a shaky O line,
and you know, Pittsburgh, we just don't know, we don't.
My guess is Kenny Pickett starts week one or very quick,
(34:16):
so you could get a two second year quarterback, a
first year quarterback, and a tanking team you need. These
are winnable games for Cleveland, and they're favored in all
of these games because after that it is Pro Bowl
quarterbacks justin Herbert Lamar, Jackson, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Tom Brady,
and you know Mac Jones has Belichick who has throughout
(34:38):
his career beaten average or young quarterbacks about eighty five
percent of the times. Then you got to go to
Miami and say what you want. That offense is going
to score a lot of points with two of this year.
So my takeaway is Stefanski's like, listen to give us
a fighting chance Brissette from this point out. So think
about this last year to Shaun wats and not only
(35:00):
didn't play, he didn't practice. And so this year they're
shutting him down. He's not allowed even in the facility
in Cleveland until October tenth, but he can't practice. That's
just get your body in shape, then he can practice.
November fourteenth, So word about August what eighteenth? Today? November fourteenth, folks,
he's not going to come back and look like Joe Burrow.
(35:21):
This is not going to be refined and smooth. Last
weekend I watched him for one series. It was ugly.
So yeah, I mean to me, this is a this
is a seven win team, most of those wins coming
early and maybe a few late. But that's kind of
where we stand. The NFL and NFLPA have reached an agreement,
and the agreement is eleven games. Deshaun had said I'll
(35:46):
take eight, the NFL said twelve, and this is kind
of where you meet. So my takeaway is Vegas has
taken him from nine and a half to eight and
a half. I would still absolutely bet the under. I
think there are a seven win team. McIntyre said earlier
that they've lost some offensive I think the center center's done.
Center's done for the year. And they got one elite receiver,
(36:08):
Amari Cooper, So and you start looking around their division.
That division's got some really good corners, so you kind
of bracket Amari Cooper and Jakobe Bursett's about a sixty
percent completion guy. This is going to be a completely run,
dominant offense, easy games for a month. Then it gets brutal.
So what do you think Watson does in the interim?
(36:29):
Can he just get a couple of guys to a
high school every day and no, just practice. I don't
know what these guys. My guess is he goes down,
he hires a quarterback coach and he just throws. He
gets in shape and he throws. I think he could
probably do it on his own. You're allowed to do that.
But if you look at the situation here, this is
really very clear. The NFL got what they wanted him.
(36:50):
They're gonna get him off the big TV games and
they don't want him in the playoffs and the division.
This is not a weak division. This is This is
four teams with a lot of town allent two star
quarterbacks and eventually Deshaun Watson. But I will say this,
there's so many great, young, talented quarterbacks in just the AFC.
(37:13):
Is that when I listed my ten best quarterbacks a
couple of weeks ago, I don't think Watson's a top
ten quarterback. You can't in the prime of your career
not play and not practice. Herbert's too good, Burrow Lamar,
Josh Mahomes Car. It's just in the quarterbacks that aren't great,
like Hatua has such incredible weapons. Russell Wilson's now in
(37:34):
the AFC. I mean today this morning. If you give
me one start today, I would take Tannehill today based
on playing over to Shaun Watson. Sorry, you can't not
practice or play for two years in this sport. And
he was never a beautiful thrower of the football. Anyway
that Deshaun was a playmaker, there's never He was never
(37:57):
Joe Burrow the thrower. He's not Kyler Murray the thrower
of the well, that's not what he is. So there
you go. An agreement has been reached. By the way
green Bay speaking of quarterbacks. Interesting yesterday, I'll just read
to this story. I don't have a lot of time
for it. But Aaron Rodgers did not call for the meeting,
(38:18):
but he attended it and did a lot of talking.
The headline in green Bay rip him one day, meet
with him the next. Aaron Rodgers yesterday called out as
young receivers, too many drops, too many wrong routes, They're
not ready to play. And so Matt Lafleur talked yesterday
or today, he's very happy that Aaron was willing to
(38:41):
meet with the young receivers. I appreciate this about Aaron.
It's just the urgency to get some of this stuff corrected.
I mean, you can't make the same mistake twice. Not
in this league. We don't have time for it. That's
just enough time to get you beat. So certainly he's
the ultimate competitor. And you know, I think it's good
(39:03):
for these guys to feel that, because we got to
make sure that they continue to show progress each and
every day. I actually look at this is an encouraging
sign your wide receiver room today. Is this three rookies
Amari Rodgers who couldn't get on the field, two old
guys passed their prime in Alan Lazard. No reasonable person
(39:25):
thinks this is ever going to be an elite receiving room.
You are crossing your fingers. It is functional. It is
three rookies, Alan Lazard. Sammy Watkins has not played a
full season since his rookie year. Okay, So if Randall
Cobb very good pro, not anymore, not not an elite pro.
(39:46):
So you and Green Bay does not draft receivers in
the first round. They just don't. They haven't done that
in twenty years. So I think you're getting to a
point where Aaron's a very particular quarterback. He likes certain things,
so does Brady, and that certain thing is great veteran players,
Randy Moss, Mike Evans, Aaron likes Davante Adams, Jordy Nelson
and his prime, Greg Jennings and his prime. So listen.
(40:11):
What I think is going to be fascinating is to
watch Aaron because in week one they play Minnesota, Week
three Tampa with a ton of weapons, and if you
lose those games, it's just going to be interesting. You
start losing those games, how does Aaron react after the
game if you lose those games simply because you don't
have the weapons to win a shootout. Now, maybe Green
Bay's defense is good enough you don't get in shootouts.
(40:32):
But you start looking at this schedule and there are
some teams with a lot of offensive weapons. Aaron is
not going to have a great receiving corps. Is it functional?
We'll find out. But I liked him meeting. It was
encouraging our three Next
Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Are you sure
to catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
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Sports Radio. Here we go live ben Los Angeles. It's
(00:27):
the Herd, our Number two show, flying by wherever you
may be and however you may be listening I Heart Radio,
Fox Sports Radio and f S one. J mack is
joining me, Greg Kosell in five minutes, Nate Newton three
times Super Bowl champ for the Cowboys, Last Hour, and
Nate's funny guy. Um So J Mack. Here is the
(00:48):
very latest. Deshaun Watson suspension begins August thirty. So what
is it today? It's the eighteenth, nineteen. What is it
to an eighteenth? Yes, sir, all right? So you twelve
more days to practice, then out of the facility. He
can return to the facility October tenth, cannot practice, but
(01:10):
can return to the facility to work out. Then five
weeks after October tenth, November fourteenth, then he can start practicing.
Per a league source, he's eligible to play December fourth.
So basically the dilemma for Cleveland is the division's pretty good.
I mean, we know that Baltimore and Cincinnati are in
(01:34):
the Super Bowl bubble. Pittsburgh's got a ton of talent,
so does Cleveland. But do you give Deshaun Watson these
three weeks of practice to get timing because in the
end he can't practice again until November fourteenth, So August
to September to October three months he's out of basically
about three months out of practice. If you do that,
(01:58):
then you are undermining Jacob ob Brissette. And the most
winnable games for Cleveland are the first four games. Those
are the really winnable games. You're not facing elite quarterbacks.
You get some of those at home, you'll be favored
I think in all four of those. Are they right
now this morning? Four? So they're favored in all four
of those games with Jacobe Brissette should go four and
(02:18):
oh should go because Atlanta's tanking. If you look at
the first four, first of all, you may not have
to face Zach Wilson in week two. We don't know
what Pittsburgh's doing at quarterback. They may be going to
Kenny pick at a rookie. Atlanta's tanking. So your first
four weeks, those are winnable games. They're favored my guests.
As they go three and one, I don't know. If
they win at Carolina, they certainly have much better players.
(02:41):
So if they go four and oh, then it's Belichick
who eats a live average quarterbacks. It's justin Herbert Lamar
Burrow two and his weapons Josh Allen Brady, then you
can play. So can they win that game at Miami
out of the bye week, which is key? Right, you
get the bye week, you rest if they row. If
they do, they're not beating Joe Burrow. They're not one
(03:03):
more win right after the first four if they can
get five and six. By the way, you presume that
when Watson comes back after very little practice, remember he
can resume practice November fourteenth and play December fourth. First
of all, a lot of people think Davis Mills, who
will be playing at home, is gonna be their franchise quarterbacks.
Say what you want. He completes a lot of passes.
(03:25):
Deshaun Watson looked horrible this past Weekend hasn't played for
two years, so it's very hard in your prime to
take two years off. I mean, that's just not the
way it works. So my takeaway is they have set
this up to make it really difficult on him, and
I believe they did not. They fought like crazy because
(03:45):
the NFL and the NFLPA agreed to this, and I
think the NFL said, you are not going to be
on the TV against Josh Allen and Brady the ascending
superstar quarterback and the Goat. You're not going to be
on TV for these games. You can come back and
play in Houston. That's not a TV game. Nobody cares.
So the NFL has been very smart through the years.
(04:07):
More than any league. They really use their TV schedule.
These are events nobody I mean, be honest, I mean
it literally always. If you start looking at some of
these games. They put Russell Wilson in Seattle Week one.
Nobody thinks Denver Seattle's good game? What makes it fascinating?
Seattle is not going to be a good watch, But
(04:27):
you'll watch Week one against Russell Wilson, right, Like, this
is what the NFL does. Baseball has never been good
at this has only recently started embracing events like the game.
In Iowa football, every week's an event. They really work
their schedule, and I think Goodell looked at that schedule
and say there's no way, and I think Fox, I
don't think. You know, we probably didn't want to Shaun
(04:48):
Watson be in our game of the week. So Josh
Allen Brady, Nope, you basically send him down to Houston.
Nobody watches it, And by that point, I don't think
Cleveland and national story. You'll cover his debut game. It
won't make national team. You'll cover it. But if he's
not very good, they're out of the playoff picture. But
(05:08):
the following week, nobody's it's not going to be a story.
The NFL doesn't want him in the playoffs. They don't
want him against Brady. I don't think they want him
against Josh Allen. And they made him pay a five
million dollars fine, which in the history of the NFL,
I don't I don't remember ever a player being fined
five million. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't remember him. Check
those final four games, Colin all winnable right versus Baltimore.
They might split with the Ravens. New Orleans coming to
(05:31):
Cleveland in Christmas weekend. That's going to be a tough
one for New Orleans. Then at Washington and Carson Wentz.
We don't think much of Washington and Pittsburgh. Now, if
you look closely, none of those games are primetime games.
As you alluded to, league doesn't want him in primetime.
But if they can go four and no down the
stretch and they're at six or seven wins, Colin, this
could be a ten or eleven win team. Yeah, could No, Nope,
(05:51):
I would bet. I would bet a sizeable amount that
this season will be done by the at Buffalo game.
So Vegas still has it as of now and a
half as their win total lives, I'll pound the under
on that. Love the under on that. By the way,
Minnesota is nine and a half, Cleveland's nine and a half.
I'm gonna go with Minnesota. Big. Those are not the
(06:12):
same teams. One's got a lot of momentum, a new
offensive coach, star weapons. I said as about Cleveland, if
Amari Cooper got hurt at wide receiver, it's the worst
wide receiving corps in the league with Jacoby Brissette. So
if because Cleveland's got a lot of talent. They got
one elite receiver one in the room. By the way,
Dallas has the same issue, but Michael Gallut may come back.
(06:33):
So let's move on to Gregg CoA sell forty two
years NFL films as we start our Thursday journey. So
let's talk football. So George Pickens looks like the steal
of the draft now steals a relative term second round.
It wasn't fifth. But if I recall, you were on
our show back in April touting him, were you not.
(06:56):
I was based on film and that's all I do.
I don't get into the character and the other issues
which teams do get into, which is why he did drop.
By the way, but I thought he was the best
receiving prospect in this draft class based on tape. I
thought he fit the profile of an NFL boundary X receiver,
the receiver that lines up to the short side of
(07:17):
the field and can win one on one. His body
type is similar to an AJ Green. He's very explosive
off the ball column. He eats up space in a hurry.
He's physical, he's competitive. I thought the tape said that
George Pickens was the best receiving prospect in this draft class.
I want to talk about Kenny Pickett. I said this.
(07:37):
I think it was yesterday or the day before Greg.
He has multiple advantages most rookie quarterbacks don't have. He
played all of his college home games at the same stadium.
He's twenty four, he was a four year starter. It
looks like they landed Pickens. The Steelers have stability, Mike Tomlin.
They've got an excellent young running back, an excellent young
(07:58):
tight end. This is not the way it usually works
for a rookie quarterback that you don't have stability a
top coach real weapons. You're twenty four, you started four years,
You played your home games in college at the stadium.
My takeaway was this, and I'll just throw it at
you if I'm Pittsburgh. If he's not ready now with
(08:18):
this stability, you got the wrong guy. Good God. We
gave Joe Burrow the dysfunctional Bengals, and even though he
got hurt in year one, by week two we were
all going, whoa, Tyler Murray dysfunction. Week two we're all
going WHOA. I kind of feel like you got to
roll the dice with Pickens. He has built in advantages
(08:39):
most rookies don't. Yeah, and I think they in some ways.
They've told you that they're saying all the right things now,
of course, which all teams do. But don't forget they
signed Trubisky. It's a deal they can get out of
after one year. They know what Truebisky is. Everybody does Colin.
Yet they drafted Kenny Pickett with the twentieth pick in
the first round. That really told you all you needed
(09:02):
to know. And when you watch Pickett, obviously it's one
preseason game. And I'm a firm believer, and I say
this all the time. I'm never defining a player's career
on a preseason game. But Pickett just has the look
and feel of an NFL quarterback. Yeah, he's strong in
the pocket, he's decisive, he's precise with his ball location.
Does he leave the pocket too soon at times? Yes,
(09:23):
that may come with experience. He can move, he has
second reactionability. I think Kenny Pickett is their best quarterback
and should be the Week one starter. Speaking of young quarterbacks,
Jordan Love got a look. He threw three picks. He
didn't get blamed for a couple of them. But this
is My takeaway, you got an offensive coach, it's a
(09:45):
non chaotic situation. You got Aaron Rodgers, who's a brilliant
guy in front of you. Good backs. You know, I
look at this and I think, okay, I'm moving into
year three here. I gotta see some growth. I gotta
see something now. There's too many of these guys pop
in year one. Justin Herbert, Hey, you're starting. He plays
the Chiefs, and it looks like immediately you got a guy.
(10:06):
Are you seeing growth with Jordan love Well, what do
you make of it? Yeah? I watched his preseason game,
and of course I saw him through his college career.
I still think he's a little inconsistent in some areas,
and maybe at this point in time, that suggests he's
not a true starting quarterback. His ball placement is too inconsistent.
(10:27):
It needs to be more precise. He misses too many throws,
and don't forget ball placement can also be a factor
on completions, not just incompletions, because run after catch is
a function of the quarterback more than the receiver. I
think his reads are still a little off at times,
So you know, maybe this is who he is. He
(10:49):
can make some phenomenal throws. He's got a big arm,
he's mobile, he looks the part. But I think there's
just some inconsistency and an erratic nature to some things
that are horton at the position, particularly decision making in
ball location. Okay, the ringer had a story today. Kyle
Shanahan admitted Trey Lance accuracy day to day. You get
(11:12):
good and bad. There's another source in the story that said, listen,
he had a practice recently. Nine final throws, eight were incomplete.
I watched him the other night. He hasn't thrown the
ball much in the last three years. Here's my takeaway.
You know, the Kyle Shanahan offense, is it a demanding offense.
Not all offenses are the same. Bruce Arian likes to
(11:34):
throw all the ball way over the top. Josh McDaniels
and Brady it was an efficiency offense, get the ball
out quickly. When you look at Shanahan's offense and Trey
Lance's potential accuracy issues, can he elevate Trey Can it work?
Can you win eleven twelve games if you don't have
a Joe Burrow as a thrower of the football. It's
(11:56):
a great question, and I think it is a demanding
offense for the quarterback in terms of the kinds of
throws they ask him to make. Now, some of that
could change because Lance has a bigger arm. For instance,
with Jimmy Garoppolo, what did we mostly see, Colin, We
saw throws between the numbers. Yes, and you can say
what you want about Jimmy Garoppolo, but he threw those
balls with conviction and he was a very good thrower
(12:18):
between the numbers. Every once in a while he'd throw
a head scratcher and we'd all you say, oh, he stinks,
but he didn't stink. He was asked to make a
lot of difficult throws. Now, Garoppolo did not have a
big arm, did not throw outside the numbers much at all,
and did not throw the deep ball real well. Lance
does have a big arm. He can throw outside the
numbers and he can throw the deep ball. So the
(12:39):
question is does Kyle tweak his offense and tweak certain
things because Lance can do certain things better than Garoppolo,
but then he can't do things that Garoppolo can do.
But the accuracy always becomes an issue at times, and Lance,
to me still has a little extra hitching his Giddea
app and his delivery and fractions in this league matter,
(13:02):
as you well know. So I think Lance will be
a work in progress. You know, you were for years
and years you had a different opinion on Russell Wilson,
and over time you were probably right that he was
creating some of his own sacks that you had said
for years, five years ago, you're like, this stuff, this
(13:24):
isn't ad lib. It looked like it's planned ad lib.
You always found him a little bit of an enigma.
And of course last year he gets hurt and has
his worst year. So now he moves to a Denver
offense which has two really good backs, a veteran and
a young back, better roll line than he had in Seattle,
and some interesting weapons here. There's a lot of youth,
(13:46):
but there's some really nice weapons here. And I'm interested,
how do you think project how you think he fits
and he finally gets an offensive coach, how he fits
in Denver? Well, this to me is one of the
most intriguing sort of coach quarterback mixes of this season
because Russell Wilson, there's certain throws that he can't make,
(14:08):
not because he's not capable of making the throw because
he's just small. So if you're going to have the
quarterback be the foundation of your offense in the sense
that you want to throw the ball thirty five forty
times a game, keep in mind, Colin, there's a lot
of short throws. There's a lot of sustaining throws. You know,
(14:29):
you can look at it Tom Brady. How many times
does he throw a five yard ball and at second
and five then he might throw another five yardball and
he gets a first down. When you when the quarterback
is the foundation, there's a lot of short throws. And
I can tell you for a fact from talking to
coaches who've coached him, there's some throws he can't make
because he can't see ye. So the question becomes, can
(14:50):
he be that guy? We know he throws a great
deep ball, we know he can drive the football, he's
got a very good arm. We know about his second
reaction ability. But they've all so got two good backs,
one in Javanta Williams, who I think can be special,
and a pretty good old line. So what is their
offense going to look like? Is this going to be
a Russell Wilson offense or is this going to be
(15:12):
a balanced offense. So my favorite part of the show
when I pat myself on the back so years ago,
seven or eight years ago, I said, I know y'all
love Aaron Rodgers, but I see stuff I don't love.
I think on the sidelines he can be a finger pointer,
an eye roller. I think sometimes he now just throws
off the back foot. I think he plays better with
(15:33):
a lead than behind. I think sometimes he checks out
if he has a couple early picks, it's like he's
protecting his passer rating. He is reluctant. He can be
reluctant throwing to people unless he absolutely trusts them. We
saw that in the playoff game against San Francisco. So
years and so I'm seen as a Rogers hater, but
I've said before I prefer him over Farv, who was
(15:53):
too much gunslinger for me and harder to coach. I
like Aaron, but I do think there are things in
his past. He really takes a long time to build
trust with him, and we've seen this in his personal life.
So I look at this young receiving corps. I got
old Sammy Watkins, who can't stay healthy. I got Amari Rodgers,
who couldn't get on the Field. I got three rookies,
(16:14):
and I think to myself, Okay, and Alan Lazard, I
think this could get really turbulent, this could this could
be really interesting. What do you kind of what's your
guests on how this a lot of moving parts and
not a lot of experience with Aaron? What do you
think it looks like? It's a great question because you know,
(16:35):
over the last two years, I thought Rodgers really settled
beautifully into Matte la Flora's offense, but of course he
had Davante Adams. Now he does not. I thought over
the last two years he played from the pocket at
a really high level. And say what you want about Rodgers,
maybe nobody has ever thrown the ball as well as
Aaron Rodgers. So that's not the question. The question is trust.
(16:57):
Is he going to play within the timing and structure
of the pass game if he does not feel comfortable
with his receivers and he has shown as you said
that if that's the case, he often does not turn
it loose. Colin, I'm very curious. Now, I loved Romeo Dubbs.
He's another guy whose tape I really loved, and actually
I compared his college tape to Davante Adams coming out
(17:19):
of Fresno. Now, a lot of people say, oh, Davante
Adams the best receiver in the league. But as you
recall the first couple of years of Davante adams career
as a second round pick, by the way, he did
not put up big numbers. There was a question as
to what he would become. He's obviously become great for
many reasons. But I think Dubbs has a similar athletic
skill set. Now, whether he turns into that, only time
(17:42):
will tell. But I think your point about Rogers is
very fair. Will he become more of a movement improvisational
random player because he does not feel comfortable turning it
loose within structure by the way. Rokuan Smith, so I
had a big rant yesterday and people in Chicago mostly
agreed with it. I said, listen, name a great receiver
(18:03):
in Bears history. You can't because they don't value it.
It's always been a defense first, tough guy city. We're
gonna punch in the mouth. We love our Mike Ditka,
we love our Brian Erlecker. That was great for a
long time. The world's changing. I mean, I watched the
Super Bowl where the Rams and the Bengals had suboptimal
linebacking play that used to be the position, the Lawrence Taylor,
(18:25):
the Ray Lewis. The world's changing. So Roquan Smith has
been there for a couple of years. He's not winning
your games. To me, if he wants a new contract,
I said, you have to consider getting somebody beyond cole
Comment and Moody to throw the ball to. You Gotta
make Justin Fields work. This thing has to work, and
so I think I think by and large many agree,
(18:47):
but I'm not denying Roquan Smith is there, maybe their
best player. So now he's got a defensive coach Justin Fields.
I don't love if you keep Roquan Smith with Matt Eberflus,
the new defensive coach. Do they work together? Does his
system work with this kid? Yes, because keep in mind,
(19:08):
Matt Eberflus is a very interesting defensive coach in the NFL.
Obviously he's the head coach now. On first and second down,
Eberflus is pretty even nell in what he does on
third down, He's incredibly multiple and incredibly difficult to play against. Okay,
and that's what offensive coaches in the league will tell you,
and keep in mind who he's just coached and who
(19:28):
have become really good players. We know about Darius Leonard,
Bobby O'KARAKEI has become a really good linebacker in Matt
Eberflus's system in Indianapolis. Then not a lot of people
talk about, but his tape is really good and he's
a really good player. So you could make the argument
from a football standpoint. You were talking bigger picture, Colin
about the quarterback, which is always critical, obviously, but you
(19:51):
can make the argument that Roquan Smith as a linebacker
is in a great position with Matt Eberflus as his
defensive coach because ebu Flus knows how to use linebackers,
particularly when he's in his sub packages. So Smith is, hey, look,
we don't begrudge anybody making a lot of money, Collin,
we know that, but he's in a really good spot
if he stays in Chicago. So let's talk Justin Fields.
(20:15):
I said this yesterday. I think at the end of
this year, we're gonna look at these five first round quarterbacks.
We're gonna acknowledge that Trevor Lawrence is the most talented,
that Trey and Mack are gonna win a lot of
games based on where they landed, and that Zach Wilson
and Justin Fields are not special enough to overcome some
(20:35):
dysfunction in the organization. That is my guess. I think
Fields looks the part your thoughts going into year two
and a full time starter for Justin Well. I think
you could make the argument Colin that Justin Feels as
a talent is more talented than Trevor Lawrence. I think
he throws the ball better, He's a phenomenal athlete. He's
(21:00):
he's I mean to Lawrence is a good athlete, but
Fields is a better athlete. Fields. Where Fields needs a
lot of work is sort of the subtleties and nuances
of the position. He still has a tendency to break
down and leave the pocket too early. He tends to
play a little too fast mentally, and now he's got
another coach going into a second year, so he's starting
(21:20):
from scratch. He needs to continue to learn to play
with more poise and patience from the pocket. So I
don't know where it's going to go with Justin Fields.
But I think Justin Fields is a high level talent.
But you know, again, he's starting over that's really hard
for young quarterbacks to start over year after year. Fired
(21:41):
up for it. Speaking of Trevor Lawrence, I'm gonna give
them credit. So they went out and got Christian Kirk,
who's not a He's not gonna go over the top
and blow away, but he's productive as heck. They went
and got the kids Za Jones, They went and got
Evan Ingram tight end. They got him an offensive coach.
And it's a wonky division. My takeaway is by the
(22:02):
end of this season, Jacksonville is gonna surprise people. I
mean right, I watched the Colts in the preseason. They
are what they were last year. They need more receiving,
they just don't have it. Tennessee lost their top receiver.
It's not a wildly explosive offensive division. And my takeaway
is by the end of the year, Jacksonville is gonna
be the best offense in that division. Am I nuts?
(22:27):
I don't want to say you're nuts. We don't know,
but I would say Lawrence And he's in the same
situation as Fields. Lawrence is starting over with a different offense. Obviously,
it's Doug Peterson's offense. His background is the Andy Reid
offense the West Coast methodology. You know, Lawrence is a strider.
He needs to shorten his stride. He needs to get
the ball out quicker. Lawrence does not have a big,
(22:50):
big arm, Colin. He's not a big time velocity thrower.
He doesn't have a bad arm. But he does not
have a gun an accuracy in ballplace than and be
a problem at times when he has when he rushes himself. Yeah.
So I'm really curious to see how he performs in
Doug Peterson's offense. I think it will be very defined
for him. I actually think his best trait is his
(23:12):
movement ability, and I don't need running the way we
think of Russell Wilson. I think Lawrence actually throws the
ball really well on boot action, whether it's to right
or to his left. Yeah, no, we've seen that before. Okay,
this is great stuff. Greg Kosell Thursdays, this time so
much vun great seeing you. Thank you again for coming on.
Thanks Colin, I really appreciate it. You bet. The breaking news,
(23:33):
of course, to Shaun Watson, the NFLPA and the NFL
have reached a settlement. He will be fined five million dollars.
Believe that's the most ever fine for an NFL player.
He will miss eleven games. He will be eligible to
play at Houston week thirteen. So it's Jacobe Brussette my
(23:53):
guests in a pretty tough schedule Week five through week twelve,
pretty tough. A lot of losses there. So my guess
is it the season for Cleveland is kind of just
surviving it, getting through it. He cannot come to the
facility to Shaun Watson once the season starts. He can't
come to the facility until October tenth. He can't practice
(24:17):
until November fourteenth, so when he's coming back, this is
not going to be smooth sailing. If you'll watch the
Shawn Watson this past weekend and I only saw one series,
it was rough. He has just not played in two years. Well,
the market, what about the market? A lot of chaos,
a lot of uncertainty. If you want exclusive insight from
(24:39):
the biggest names in the sports game, what's good? This
is national champion and former pro bowler Chris Johnson. Let
me tell you a little bit about my new series
kJ Live. J Live is the only show featuring me
going one on one with the brightest basketball minds on
the planet to get the real and when I say real,
I mean that real. I got legendary Hall of famers,
elite coaches in the top. Basketball Inside is bringing you
(25:03):
a unique perspective on all things hoops culture that you
will not find anywhere. Helps to make your next move
your best move. And tap in with me on kJ
Live wherever you get your podcast from, be sure to
catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Easter
not a Empacifaic. Saturday, It's Baseball Night in America on Fox.
(25:28):
Jose Alcube leads the Astros against Akuna Junior and the
Braves or Pete Alonzo and the Mets, but defend off
the surging Phillies or Mariners Ace. It all goes down
Saturday at seven Eastern on Fox. Check for the game
in your area. It's top heavy sport, but I will
say this, the top is really good. At Land is good.
The Dodgers are on fire. The Mats, who I think
(25:53):
are better than everybody. Houston. San Diego has been a
bit of a disappointment with all that talent. That's team
story is brutal, brutal. J Mack with the news no turns.
This is the herd line news. All right, Colin to
Shaun Watson, obviously the big story in sports today. We
reported earlier eleven game suspension, five million dollars fine. The
(26:18):
Browns posted a written statement on behalf of Watson in response,
saying quote, I'm grateful that the disciplinary process has ended
an extremely appreciative of the tremendous support I have received
throughout my short time with the Browns organization. I apologize
once again for any pain this situation has caused. I
take accountability for the decisions I made. My focus going
(26:40):
forward is on working to become the best version of
myself on and off the field, and supporting my teammates
however possible while I'm away from the team. I'm excited
about what the future holds for me in Cleveland. But
then Watson took a bit of a different tone when
he took to the podium moments ago Good Innocence and
(27:00):
always said that I've never sauted anyone or to suspect
to anyone, and if continue it's down that's But at
the same time, I have to continue to push forward
in my life, in my career, and for us to
be able to move forward, you know, I have to
be able to take steps and pet pride to the side.
Want to continue to stand on my innocence and keep
pushing forward. And I've always you know, stood on to
suspecting or sessional assaulting anywa oh boy cont So yeah, well,
(27:26):
the season is structured. The NFL, I think, got what
they wanted. Push him to the end of the season.
Don't want him on TV against Brady, don't want him
in the playoffs, and I think if you look at
the schedule, they're not going to allow him back in
the facility once preseason ends till October tenth, he can't
(27:46):
practice until mid November, can't play until early December. So
in the end, the NFL wanted a season. He said
he'd take eight games. They meet at eleven. I said
when it was six, I double at the twelve because
of the lack of transparency on this whole thing. But
in a negotiation, eleven feels like both sides feel like
(28:08):
the entire season isn't over, and the NFL got him
off the meat of the schedule and got him off TV.
Looking to the Football Aspect column, the Boys in the Desert,
they had hung a nine and a half wind total
for the Brown Pound justust it down to eight and
a half. Okay, that's their new win total for Brissette
slash Watson eight and a half on that that's I
(28:31):
think they're If I look at their schedule now, they're
they're a seven or an eight win team. So they're
not a ten win team. Just know where they faced
too many teams. Remember about Cleveland for just a moment,
putting to Shawn Watson aside. So Jacoby Brissette has been
in this league a long time. He is what he is.
He's an eighty three pass a rating quarterback and completes
(28:51):
barely sixty percent. That's what he is with one elite
receiver on the roster, Amari Cooper. So if Amari Cooper doesn't,
it's probably the most anemic passing game in the league
by a long shot. That's their reality. They need a
Mauri Cooper to be healthy to have any semblance because
Brissette's not Burrow, to have any semblance of a reasonably
(29:15):
bile passing game, biable passing game. So this is a
seven win team, is a team that's gonna have to
run the football, get an early league and everybody in
the defense and everybody in the league knows it. And
the other problems. The offensive line has had some injuries
the season, which kind of cripples that plan. If you
can't get Chubb and Hunt loose and you're playing from
behind with Brissette, I think it's a rap and you're
looking at maybe like a five, five or six win team. Yea,
(29:37):
all right, let's move on to the next story. Michael
Thomas remember him, Yeah, former a Saints receiver. Start with
the Saints. Actually, he suffered a few injuries after some
all pro seasons. He's been twenty six games since twenty nineteen,
including all of last season with an ankle injury. Despite
them as time, new coach Dennis Allen believes Thomas will
return to being one of the league's most productive receivers
(29:58):
this season, saying, quote, when the ball kicks off for real,
Michael Thomas is gonna be ready to go, and I'm
excited for that. I think he looks great. I thought
he looked a little better today than Tuesday. When I
watch Michael Thomas out of practice, I see Michael Thomas
that I saw pre injury, A big, strong, physical receiver
that makes a ton of contested catches. I saw it
in these practices. I kind of see that guy looks
(30:21):
pretty good. Do they have a guy to get it
to him? That's Jameis Winston. Yeah, that's a seven that's
another seven win team. Well, the receiver room was significantly upgraded,
obviously through the draft and free agency, so Thomas is
not going to face as many double teams as he
used to. Kamara, the suspension still up in the air. Um,
you think you don't think there's a playoff team? Huh No,
(30:42):
I we have no idea. It's a coach quarterback league.
Where's their coach in the top fifteen? Don't have a
top fifteen coach and don't have a top fifteen quarterback.
That's that's seven win territories tough sledding, all right. Third story,
if you've watched Hard Knocks yet Colin this season? Are you?
I've been into that at all? I saw the first one,
(31:02):
but not really. Yeah, I'm kind of yeah, it is. Yeah,
it's basically, let's put a mic in a bad football
team's locker room, and I feel like I get the
same thing every year. Yeah. So, anyways, it's a Detroit Lions.
They're featured running backs. Coach do Staley has really ridden
DeAndre Swift, the promising running back out of Georgia, hoping
to get the most out of him this season. Swift
(31:23):
has high expectations, believing he can have a one thousand
yard receiving end rushing season. He's a great player. Adding,
I know that it's a rare feat. I know with
running backs coach do Staley, the way he coaches me
and what I bring to the team, that it can
be done. Listen, I like, I actually think they're offensive talent.
First of all, I don't know where Pro Football Focus
(31:44):
has them ranked, but I believe this is a really
good old line. Now I could be to ten for sure. Oh,
I think I thought it looked at the end of
the last year. It's a real old line. I'm amarn
Saint Brown, and they brought the kid over from Jacksonville
DJ Shark Shark. Those are two legit receivers. T J.
Hawkinson's an excellent young tight end. Swift as a star,
(32:04):
and Jared Goff is fine. He's Matt Ryan with a
better deep ball. He's fine. So I think they're gonna
score points. And now I think they're a seven win
team too. But like a really promising seven win team.
I think they're seven, could go up to eight if
they win a close game. But I think Detroit's gonna
be a fun watch. They figured out the offensive side
(32:25):
of the ball. They just their issue is they can
only win by shootout. Last year, that's the only way
they could win. Yeah, listen, I'm a nerd who looks
at these schedules for gambling. Jared Goff has notoriously been
awful in cold weather. He has two cold weather games
late in the season against my Jets and the Packers.
So if they're kind of the fringe contending for a
wildcard spot, I think it's going downhill because I just
(32:47):
don't trust Goff. Colin cold Weather. Oh remember that Chicago
game on Sunday Night football. Let's not worry about December
with the Lions and Jets. This is what we do.
The Jets may disband the franchise by November. Jets into
the show for the fourth straight day. That's a little
game I got going on here, Colin. That's it. Jason
with the news, Well that's the news, and thanks for
(33:10):
stopping by the herd. You do always figure out a
way to just wedge a Jets topic into the show.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app. Kevin Stefanski just announced
that they're shutting Deshaun Watson down for the rest of preseason.
(33:32):
So Jacoby Brissette, there's only two preseason games now, they've
cut it from four to three. We've already had one.
So Cleveland is saying this is Jacoby Brissette's team, and
I think it's the right decision. Is that I don't
think you can take snaps away from Deshaun Watts from
Jacoby Brissette. He's he's a kid, this is a this
is a team that's got some talent. He needs reps.
And the winnable games on this schedule for Cleveland are
(33:55):
the first four weeks where you've got Zach Wilson hurt
for the Jets. Atlanta looks like they're tanking. These are
really winnable games for the Jets. Baker Mayfield, you know,
first start as a Carolina Panther behind a shaky O line,
and you know, Pittsburgh, we just don't know, we don't.
My guess is Kenny Pickett starts week one or very quick,
(34:16):
so you could get a two second year quarterback, a
first year quarterback, and a tanking team you need. These
are winnable games for Cleveland, and they're favored in all
of these games because after that it is Pro Bowl
quarterbacks justin Herbert Lamar, Jackson, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Tom Brady,
and you know Mac Jones has Belichick who has throughout
(34:38):
his career beaten average or young quarterbacks about eighty five
percent of the times. Then you got to go to
Miami and say what you want. That offense is going
to score a lot of points with two of this year.
So my takeaway is Stefanski's like, listen to give us
a fighting chance Brissette from this point out. So think
about this last year to Shaun wats and not only
(35:00):
didn't play, he didn't practice. And so this year they're
shutting him down. He's not allowed even in the facility
in Cleveland until October tenth, but he can't practice. That's
just get your body in shape, then he can practice.
November fourteenth, So word about August what eighteenth? Today? November fourteenth, folks,
he's not going to come back and look like Joe Burrow.
(35:21):
This is not going to be refined and smooth. Last
weekend I watched him for one series. It was ugly.
So yeah, I mean to me, this is a this
is a seven win team, most of those wins coming
early and maybe a few late. But that's kind of
where we stand. The NFL and NFLPA have reached an agreement,
and the agreement is eleven games. Deshaun had said I'll
(35:46):
take eight, the NFL said twelve, and this is kind
of where you meet. So my takeaway is Vegas has
taken him from nine and a half to eight and
a half. I would still absolutely bet the under. I
think there are a seven win team. McIntyre said earlier
that they've lost some offensive I think the center center's done.
Center's done for the year. And they got one elite receiver,
(36:08):
Amari Cooper, So and you start looking around their division.
That division's got some really good corners, so you kind
of bracket Amari Cooper and Jakobe Bursett's about a sixty
percent completion guy. This is going to be a completely run,
dominant offense, easy games for a month. Then it gets brutal.
So what do you think Watson does in the interim?
(36:29):
Can he just get a couple of guys to a
high school every day and no, just practice. I don't
know what these guys. My guess is he goes down,
he hires a quarterback coach and he just throws. He
gets in shape and he throws. I think he could
probably do it on his own. You're allowed to do that.
But if you look at the situation here, this is
really very clear. The NFL got what they wanted him.
(36:50):
They're gonna get him off the big TV games and
they don't want him in the playoffs and the division.
This is not a weak division. This is This is
four teams with a lot of town allent two star
quarterbacks and eventually Deshaun Watson. But I will say this,
there's so many great, young, talented quarterbacks in just the AFC.
(37:13):
Is that when I listed my ten best quarterbacks a
couple of weeks ago, I don't think Watson's a top
ten quarterback. You can't in the prime of your career
not play and not practice. Herbert's too good, Burrow Lamar,
Josh Mahomes Car. It's just in the quarterbacks that aren't great,
like Hatua has such incredible weapons. Russell Wilson's now in
(37:34):
the AFC. I mean today this morning. If you give
me one start today, I would take Tannehill today based
on playing over to Shaun Watson. Sorry, you can't not
practice or play for two years in this sport. And
he was never a beautiful thrower of the football. Anyway
that Deshaun was a playmaker, there's never He was never
(37:57):
Joe Burrow the thrower. He's not Kyler Murray the thrower
of the well, that's not what he is. So there
you go. An agreement has been reached. By the way
green Bay speaking of quarterbacks. Interesting yesterday, I'll just read
to this story. I don't have a lot of time
for it. But Aaron Rodgers did not call for the meeting,
(38:18):
but he attended it and did a lot of talking.
The headline in green Bay rip him one day, meet
with him the next. Aaron Rodgers yesterday called out as
young receivers, too many drops, too many wrong routes, They're
not ready to play. And so Matt Lafleur talked yesterday
or today, he's very happy that Aaron was willing to
(38:41):
meet with the young receivers. I appreciate this about Aaron.
It's just the urgency to get some of this stuff corrected.
I mean, you can't make the same mistake twice. Not
in this league. We don't have time for it. That's
just enough time to get you beat. So certainly he's
the ultimate competitor. And you know, I think it's good
(39:03):
for these guys to feel that, because we got to
make sure that they continue to show progress each and
every day. I actually look at this is an encouraging
sign your wide receiver room today. Is this three rookies
Amari Rodgers who couldn't get on the field, two old
guys passed their prime in Alan Lazard. No reasonable person
(39:25):
thinks this is ever going to be an elite receiving room.
You are crossing your fingers. It is functional. It is
three rookies, Alan Lazard. Sammy Watkins has not played a
full season since his rookie year. Okay, So if Randall
Cobb very good pro, not anymore, not not an elite pro.
(39:46):
So you and Green Bay does not draft receivers in
the first round. They just don't. They haven't done that
in twenty years. So I think you're getting to a
point where Aaron's a very particular quarterback. He likes certain things,
so does Brady, and that certain thing is great veteran players,
Randy Moss, Mike Evans, Aaron likes Davante Adams, Jordy Nelson
and his prime, Greg Jennings and his prime. So listen.
(40:11):
What I think is going to be fascinating is to
watch Aaron because in week one they play Minnesota, Week
three Tampa with a ton of weapons, and if you
lose those games, it's just going to be interesting. You
start losing those games, how does Aaron react after the
game if you lose those games simply because you don't
have the weapons to win a shootout. Now, maybe Green
Bay's defense is good enough you don't get in shootouts.
(40:32):
But you start looking at this schedule and there are
some teams with a lot of offensive weapons. Aaron is
not going to have a great receiving corps. Is it functional?
We'll find out. But I liked him meeting. It was
encouraging our three Next
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