May 28, 2025 • 43 mins
Colin talks to Fox Sports NFL analyst Greg Olsen about the expectations for Bears quarterback Caleb Williams under new head coach Ben Johnson
He also talks to Rachel Nichols about the Pacers on the verge of going to the NBA Finals to most likely play against the Thunder
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Hour two.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Indiana Pacers have taken control of the series. Indiana's played
fourteen playoff kids. They're oz to three in game threes
when they lead to oh. When they've taken control of
the series, winning on the road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland,
at New York, they go into the other team's place,
(00:51):
steal both games. They come home foot on the gas.
Let's off a little, and they've lost one game in
each series. Game three, that's it. Otherwise they were eleven
and zero in the urgency games games one and two, four, five, six.
They're eleven and zer and Halliburton's statline last night maybe
(01:12):
the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life.
Thirty two, fifteen, ten and no turnovers. That is beyond
hyper efficiency. That is insane. That'd be like an NFL quit.
That's what Jayden Daniels did last year, but he would
go like thirty of thirty four with no turnovers. What
(01:32):
it's just, it's against the defensive coach and a defensive team.
And the other thing is and you saw this with
Magic Johnson. You see this with a truly great point guards.
You see this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul
was in LA, like Blake Griffin was like is he
a top three or four player in the league? And
DeAndre Jordan was nothing but buckets? And then Chris Paul
leaves those two players and they're not the same players.
(01:55):
You see all the holes in their game. I like
Pascal Siakam. He looks all NBA first team playing with
Aliburton thirty two, fifteen ten and no turnovers.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Here's Ali after.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I feel like we were making up stats at at
some point to make me look better. I was just
trying to be aggressive man, just trying to play my best,
you know. I feel like I let the team down
in Game three, felt like I could have been so
much better.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So I feel like I responded the right way today.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series
was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of
the third quarter in Game three and the start of
the fourth and they lost their rhythm. And this is
a rhythm team, and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton.
And then he came back in he got him back
on track, but it just it felt like they lost
their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench,
(02:46):
if Brunson goes to the bench, Kat can score more.
The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off
the floor. It's like it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay,
all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is
all time specish. I love watching him play, and I
think it's a great personality with that. Greg Olsen joining
us live fourteen years in the NFL, Fox Sports Analyst,
(03:08):
great great broadcaster. By the way, tight End University is
back it's fifth year in Nashville in June twenty three
to the twenty second.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I want to ask about that because part of what you.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Do, which I think is the most underdiscussed part of
your sport, is film study. And Caleb Williams was recently
quoted talking about the Bears, a team you played for,
and loved playing for. He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone,
and I don't you know, I'm not in those rooms.
When you hear that he watched film alone, what was
(03:42):
your interpretation of that.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
How's that land for you?
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just it's
hard for me to believe that that was the case.
And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been
in three different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple quarterbacks.
I've never heard of a guy not having the opportunity
to watch film with his position coach, let alone the quarterback,
(04:08):
not you know, between the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinator
someone there. It's hard for me to believe that the
organization would let their young rookie watch film by himself.
But with that being said, yeah, it is though an
element of the sport that there is a little bit
of a learning curve. I don't think most young guys
coming out of college unless you just happen to be
(04:29):
playing for, you know, the right coach, the right position, coach, coordinator,
whoever at the college level, to teach you the art
of film study. I think we just have a joke
like we're not in here watching movies. Right, There's a
lot of guys that put the game on play one
and they just go play one, play two, play three,
and they just go through the sequence of a game.
You know, yes, you're watching film, are you really getting
(04:52):
the tendencies and really know what you're looking at to study?
My experience is most guys have to learn that. Most
guys have to learn that over the career. How I
watched film in my fourteenth year was wildly different than
how I watched it my first and second year. And
I think it's up to the organization.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
It's up to the.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
Coach, especially at the quarterback position, where there is no
greater responsibility than understanding not only everything of what your
team's doing, but of course what the opposing team is
doing defensively. So I can't imagine Ben Johnson's gonna let
that go on at all. So I think for Caleb
Williams and his development, the right guy now is in
control in Chicago, both over the team and then obviously
(05:32):
offensively with what Ben Johnson can do. But yeah, when
I read that report, I kind of did a ooh,
like true not true, scales of truth whatever. There's always
probably two sides to every story, but just the fact
that that was even suggested is not a great is
not a great reflection of the organization for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But by the way, did you and Cam, for instance,
film study.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Would you sit.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Down with Cam and go, Dude, this guy, this guy.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
In the flaps we like? Is that a real thing?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Oh? Absolutely? So we had a great routine. So it
was actually kind of fun.
Speaker 6 (06:07):
So most of the meetings from when we got there
in the morning, we're all controlled by the coaches. It
was small group meetings, offensive install then we'd have practice,
then we'd have post practice review where we'd watch the
practice film. So there was opportunities to you know, hey, coach,
take a second, Cam, here's why I ran this flat.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Here's why.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
And you're watching practice film or you're watching and the
opportunity to go, But there's thirty five guys in the room,
it's not really the opportunity for the two of you
to have your own conversation. But then at the end
of the day when everything officially with the coaches ended,
the tight end and the quarterback room in Carolina.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
We're right next to each other.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
We literally shared a wall, so he'd be in his
room with some of the quarterbacks and I'd be doing
sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of
the day, just for my own prep and notes and whatnot,
and I knew he was right next door, so I
would pop over and be like, hey, I need you
to come take a look at this, and say, hey,
look at the way this safety's hips. Are you okay
if I take this a couple of yards deeper? Am
I going to throw off your timing? And most of
(07:03):
the time Cam was just like, get open, I'm good.
But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't hold it
that long, or it messes up with my timing of
my footwork, or I don't like the way your body
language looks on there because you kind of fooled me.
I wasn't sure when you were going to come out
of your break. I need less at the top. So
like that, dialogue in meetings on the field was NonStop.
(07:25):
And when you can play with one guy for as
long as we did over time, I knew his answer
before I even had to ask him, and vice versa,
because we had talked through so many scenarios over so
many days, you know, for those nine years together.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So Cam was a mover. Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward
is a mover like. I like Cam a lot, and
I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the
audience when you do have Caleb Williams and he can
add lib Now, I think the Bears online is better.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
He won't have to do it as much.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
But some of these guys, like Cam, cam Warden Caleb,
they're just naturally gifted. It's like if you have a
great voice in the shower, like that's just the reality
of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does
it make it harder for tight ends and does it
make it harder in film studies so much as that.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Libya, it's a great question. So I think what we're
seeing right now in the NFL is you can't play.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
I should say with uncertainty.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if
you don't have some level of improv right, some level
of playing off script, off platform. All the words, the
buzzwords that get thrown around, but the ability to buy time,
escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback
and not always just rely on being a runner, stay
(08:41):
active as a passer. I mean, now you also can't
only playoff script.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
You can't only play improv quarterback. At the NFL. There's
no timing, there's no rhythm.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
The tackles don't know your depth of your drop, The
guards don't know the depth of the pocket. Am I
blocking for you to be at five and a half yards?
Or are you're going to be outside the hash marks
running with your life? If I'm a quarterback, if I'm
a wide receiver or a tight end, I need to
know at the top of my break when I get
my head around, am I looking to find you behind
the center at seven yards? Or is there a chance
(09:10):
that you've already broken contained and you're outside the pocket
and now I need to get into scramble drilled. So
there is a balance to it all. You can't just
stand in one spot and be a statue in today's NFL.
And you also can't just play recess football running around.
It's not sustainable. So I think that the blend of
don't take what's special out of these guys, don't take
(09:32):
it out of their game. If you have the ability
to move and improvise, encourage them to do it, but
just give them boundaries, give them parameters of saying, Okay,
I need you to hit your fifth step of your
drop and it's a progression pass, or it's a half
field read or whatever the play calls for. After you've
exhausted all of that. If the opportunity there is to
extend and create plays outside the rhythm of the game,
(09:55):
we're never going to take you away. But it can't
be hit your back foot and run around because we
can't support you doing that every single play from a
protection and a route concept. So there is a little
give and take, and I think that's something that Ben
Johnson has proven. He's coached multiple different types of quarterbacks.
He had a guy in golf who really was stationary
(10:17):
in rhythm, in timing, get the ball out of his hand.
He will have a little bit of a different flavor
for a guy like Caleb where he does get that
rhythm progression passer in the offense because you need it,
but then also encourage him to use his athleticism because
it is very challenging for defenses to play off script
and defend that long.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Before I get to the tight end, you the tush push.
You know, as a guy that was a willing blocker,
My guess was you like it. Do you like the
tush push?
Speaker 5 (10:49):
I do.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
I think it would be an extremely unfair and wrong
to Philadelphia, who has really some teams have done it
here and there, no one has even come remotely close
to doing it as efficiently as often, and use it
as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy, from how
they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and
(11:10):
a half in their back pocket, how they call first
and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down
in their back pocket, goal to go situations like it
is a not just a play, it is really a
centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built
with that offense. In Jalen hurt So, I think to
remove that from a team who has found a play
that they're uniquely good at, just because the rest of
(11:33):
the league is tired of trying to find ways to
defend it, I don't agree with. My gut tells me
they are going to eventually ban it. I think it
came so close this year at the owners meeting. Typically
those things don't come back. They typically continue to move
forward and getting the other side to flip. I hope
I'm wrong, because I think Philly has earned the right
(11:53):
to use that in their offense.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I don't think the lineman loved doing it.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
I don't think they love being at the bottom of
the pile on you know, seven times a game, five
times a game.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
But when you're winning Super Bowls and you.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Tell me I got to mush a guy out of
there and get my back right, I'll do that.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
I'll do that to win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
So I'll be curious to see how it plays out.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple
of years ago about you know, running backs don't make
any money.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It's unfair.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And my take has been, well, tight ends have been
under paid my entire life. They have to block the
best athlete on defense, and they have to catch, they
have to do most of the dirty work, and then
they're one of the last positions. I guess this has
changed that you can really take a shot at as
a defensive player. So when you have your Nashville tight
(12:43):
end University and you have all these young guys in
what is something you preach to young tight ends?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
A high school tight end? It's not all.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Catching, Like, is there something that is do you deliver
a message a harsh message to all these young tight
ends that I wouldn't think about.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Yeah, and it's actually a very simple message. And you know,
we get into route running and we got Kelsey given,
you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to
use leverage and breaking and.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Finding space and a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
I kind of look and I laugh, and I'm like, Kelsey, like,
not everyone can do what you're talking about right now.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Because it's super advanced.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And him and Mahomes and then you got Kittle talking
run game and footwork and hand placement and fight and
you know, these guys are just so unique. But obviously
they have a lot of experience and a lot of
understanding of the position. But the message that we try
to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver
to all of our guys to your point, is the
best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at
(13:42):
a higher level, is to be able to be trusted
to be on the field on every snap. And that's
going to be your best case for production, catches, yards, opportunities,
how much you get paid, the impact on the offense,
all of it. If you could be the best pass
catching tight end in football, or the best run blocking
tight end in football. But if I can only use that,
(14:04):
I can only use you in package of the offense.
At times where those skill sets are warranted. You still
are going to play in the NFL. You are still
going to be able to find a roster spot because
those skills have value. But if you want to be
a legit guy, you want to catch eighty balls, you
want to have a thousand yards. The only reason I
ever caught a thousand yards Colin was because I knew.
(14:26):
I went into every game and there was like four
to six real routes downfield twenty plus yards that were
designed for me. But of that four to six, I
needed the right protection, the right play call, did the
play ever get called in the first place, against the
right coverage?
Speaker 5 (14:43):
And then did I catch it? Was the throw.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
There's so many factors of those four to six. If
I got two or three of those, that was a
great day. But now you got three catches for fifty
five yards. But now I caught a flat route, I
caught a first and second down checkdown because I'm on
the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short
yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you
(15:05):
know I'd finished with seven for ninety and it wasn't
the flashy play. So if I'm only on the field
for the flashy plays, I never catch the easy ones.
And if I'm only good enough to be on the
field in goal line and short yardage because I'm a blocker,
I don't catch a third and eight dig across the
middle for twenty five. So being on the field and
providing value to your team no matter that down and distance,
(15:28):
you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are
they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play,
even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability
to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production,
all of it go up.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
So that's our.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Message to them, be good enough at everything, and it's
a much easier road.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Great stuff, great broadcaster, Fox Sports. It's tight end you.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's in Nashville, the twenty third to the twenty six,
a great American city in Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Good seeing you, my man.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Good seeing you man. Have a great summer.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, see jmack.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
If you did more than just jack up threes, if
you could defend a little, if you could occasionally screen,
like Greg Olsen talked about you could be on the
floor in key spots, not just jacking up threes when
your team's down do.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
I know you like to take jabs at my hoops game,
but I'll just say I've signed up for the most
competitive hoops league I've ever joined. There's a large money
to the winner in this league this summer. My wife
doesn't even know about it. I'm just telling you right now.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, because money is a real issue for you. You're
not compensated.
Speaker 8 (16:31):
Well, listen, you know everybody can use a little raise
every now and then.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Mister Cowery, you're ridiculous, all right. I want to thank
Greg Olsen for stopping by. It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Tyrese Halibert, I know it's hard to say superstar in
this league if you're not jumping over people or you're
not thirty two a game, but he feels like an
emerging superstar to me.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Here's j Mack with the news.
Speaker 7 (17:17):
No, no turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
This is the Herd Line News.
Speaker 7 (17:22):
So you know I picked the Buffalo Bills, Colin to
get to the Super Bowl and win it. Well, some
bad news already, New edge rusher Joey Bosa is sidelined
to start OTAs and worse yet, James Cook is a
no show. He's been asking for a new contract entering
the final year of his rookie deal. This isn't great, Okay.
Bosa already hurt Chargers fans. That's familiar sounds to their ears,
(17:46):
as they've seen him always injured.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
He has a calf injury. Colin.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
They said Bosa is expected to miss offseason work until
the summer.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
What is that?
Speaker 7 (17:56):
July and Cook was a stud second most t these
in the league ty with Derrick Henry. Not a great
start to odas for the bubble of BIS.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I have no fears.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Running back needs the least practice of any position in football.
Offensive line usually needs the most practice along with quarterback,
and pass rusher is another position. If you're in shape,
you'll be able to rush the passer. It's not like
Joey Bosa is going to forget how to rush the passer.
I actually think it's one of the better pickups of
(18:26):
the year. Mosa, Yeah, I mean he can be banged up. Listen,
the Chargers didn't want to pay Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa.
They just they couldn't pay both because of what they're
paying Herbert and they're going to have to pay their
left tackle. So there were just there were limitations on
you know, they had to move off at one point
Mike Williams and Keenan Allen And so they're gonna pay
(18:47):
Khalil Mack, who's been more available. Joey Bosa is going
to go in there and have double digit sacks for
the Bills. Oh what Remember they also lead in fourteen
to fifteen of their games. They'll lead in the fourth quarter,
meaning the opponent's passing, so he's going to get This
is not a team that's gonna be Let's be honest,
(19:08):
this is not a team it's.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Gonna be trailing late.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
They're favored in every single game, including the Eagles game.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I learned this year's ago from Bill Pollian when they
drafted Peyton Manning. His takeaway was, we're gonna be leading
most of our games. Let's go draft pass rushers. And that's,
by the way, what Bill Belichick. We're gonna be leading
with Brady. They now they always didn't have sack leaders,
but they always led or were near the top and
hurried and rushes. So once you get the great quarterback.
(19:39):
By the way, what are the Chiefs pay on defense?
They let a lot of people go. They don't let
Chris Jones go because they're going to lead games. So
Joey Bosa is a must for this team. He's gonna
end up with eleven or twelve sacks.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Know what we're gonna need this summer.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
We need Ryan and Jay have a board next to
you with our bets, because that is insane. You think
both is I have double digit tech. I don't even
think he plays double digit games this season. Got This
guy is always a walking injury. Honestly, listen, he'll be
not I would just say put him in bubble wrap
and unleash him in January, just save him for the playoffs. Honestly,
(20:13):
Like that's crazy. I do want to just repeat. The
Bills are winning the Super Bow, all right. Next story,
Colin is my mix man.
Speaker 8 (20:20):
This is tough. It's just a difficult. It's a difficult
day for men. Brunson and Company could not get it done.
Josh Hart was freaking terrible. I don't know, I don't
know what to do.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
Let's just hear what Cat has to say after the
Pacers took.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
A three to one lead in the series.
Speaker 9 (20:36):
We've been a team that has kind of found a
way to do the impossible. It always seemed impossible. You know,
we just keep fighting. So it's gonna be a testament
to our whole playoff runt. You know, now we have
to be in one of the biggest fights of our lives.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well it's been listen, it's been fun.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But the Pacers are eleven to zero in playoff games
that aren't Game three. And like, by the way they
took a lead last night, I felt like last night
they controlled the game. They had a lead early, they
had a laid in the fourth quarter, I felt.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Like and a lot of it was the Knicks they
had and they had turnovers.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I mean, if you go look at the turnovers, they
almost had twice as many turnovers as Indiana, So a
lot of.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It was misfiring by the Knicks.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
But I felt last night when I watched that game,
I felt like Indiana was in control of it most
of it.
Speaker 7 (21:30):
No, they definitely were. I don't think the Knicks led
in the second half. I'm you know this pains me
to say even more. I want a competitive NBA Finals, right,
Who do you think matches up better with the OKAC thunder.
Speaker 8 (21:45):
It's not the Knicks, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, I don't think anybody matches up perfectly with Oka.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
See.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I think Indiana, because of Halliburton and their pace, they
can run with anybody. They're not as good defensively as OKC.
But generally when you get to the NBA Finals, remember
Oklahoma City would go in as a big favorite. The
pressure would be on Oklahoma City, so that is something.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And remember they're big as Chet Holmgren.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I get Miles Turner and Pascal Sayakham, I get two
veteran Biggs.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
They're big as young Chet Holmgren. So I feel like
I have a big advantage.
Speaker 7 (22:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
SGA is a better score than Halliburton, but Halliburton plays
with great much better pace, much better full court. And
so I mean I a lot of people don't think
it's a great matchup.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I think Indiana matches up.
Speaker 7 (22:40):
With everybody and matches up they can match up really well.
Nie Smith, you see embodying Brunson by the way the
other things. The Pacers are young, Colin. The oldest guys
on their roster TJ. McConnell at thirty three and Siakam
at thirty one.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
And if you look at.
Speaker 7 (22:54):
Oka see their oldest guy, Caruso thirty one.
Speaker 8 (22:58):
This is a young old Sudden. It's a young finals.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
And I know it's not like the sexiest matchup, but
I do think the Pacers can push them.
Speaker 8 (23:06):
I'm not seeing anything from the Knicks that legs me in.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
The Thunder's identity is they force a lot of turnovers
and the Pacers don't commit turnovers.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Haliburton so ready.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
Haliburton has six turnovers in four games against the Knicks.
Speaker 8 (23:20):
Six and four game. That's like playing forty minutes a night.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
That's crazy.
Speaker 8 (23:24):
Halliburton has been sensation. Final story.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
Colin is oh Aaron Rodgers. The rumors continue about him
in Pittsburgh. Well, let's let's talk about the current starter
right now, and that's Mason Rudolph. You know, this guy's
been around the league for a minute. Bounced over the
Titans last year, and he was asked about how it
felt to be back in the black and yellow.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
It's great.
Speaker 10 (23:46):
I I've been a part where you're getting you jump
on the living train late in the spring, and then
you're also here from the jumps.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
So I learned that adapt to both. But it's obviously
good to be one.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well, you know what he's there's there's a lot worse
jobs in the NFL than being mostly a career back
up with twenty starts in your career. He's had, he's
had a really nice and I remember when he played
at Oklahoma State. He's hung around. He's a good guy
in the room. I mean, what does it tell you
that Pittsburgh brought him back.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
He's a good guy. People.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
When you start bringing guys back, they're good in the room.
That's why Chase Daniel, that's why he lasted forever. Guys
want Josh mcnow with people want him, They want him
in the room.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
Yeah, is that is that why I'm still here? You
just want me to.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I wouldn't say that's your strength. We're keeping you around.
There's budget concerns, so we'll just keep you around for Oh.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Wow, okay, right back here.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
By J mcklannews.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd line.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I think this is interesting there's obviously there's a lot
of pushback on Caitlin Clark walking into.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
The w NBA and easily being their.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Most popular player. Popularity is hard to I've said this before.
Taylor Swift is brilliant and she's gifted, and she's amazing.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Do I think she has the best voice? No, No,
I don't, And I don't know music.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But you know, I've heard lots of singers who to
me there's some sort of visceral connection male and female.
But she's universally accepted as the musical artist star. There's
been a lot of action heroes. Is Tom Cruise the
best actor?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
He's the biggest star by a mile. Steph Curry's never
been the best player in the NBA. I think he's
more popular than Lebron Why, I don't know. So for
any of the WNBA players that want to make it
about anything other than it happens. John Daily was kind
(25:53):
of a mess personally, was wildly popular on the PGA tour.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
He was in Everyman.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Brett fall V, I would argue was more popular than
Tom Brady. Britty was a much more sus successful quarterback,
but people connected with Brett farv and sometimes maybe Tom
was austere and he was sort of the gold standard,
and you know he wasn't highly emotional and whatever. Who knows,
but I do think it's possible. Diana Tarassi knows her stuff.
(26:21):
She said that Dallas Wings rookie Page Becker's the Yukon
player who was drafted number one. She said, she'll become
the best player in the league for sure. So she's
been a phenom since she was in the sixth grade.
She's not the playmaker of Caitlin Clark, but she's a
better pure scorer eventually, better shooter, better well, just better
pure score.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
So it's very possible. And back to.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Back years, you're going to get the two most popular
WNBA players ever. Happened with Magic and Bird. In the NBA,
it just different players, big brands. It happened Listen Mahomes
got drafted in twenty seventeen, Josh Allen got drafted in
twenty eighteen, both in the AFC. I'd argue to most
(27:02):
popular players in the NFL. So Paige Becker was when
she was at Yukon, she was the women's college basketball
Player of the Year as a freshman. She was much
better than Caitlyn Clark, much earlier in life.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Much better.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Caitlyn Clark, however, played for a college program that we
didn't watch or care about until she arrived. Paige Becker
has Gino Oriema's brand, the Yukon women's basketball brand, the
greatest of all time. Gino's the best coach, that's the
biggest brand. It's like being a quarterback at Alabama with Saban.
The quarterback kind of gets lost behind Saban, the brand,
the defense, you know, just the factory that is Alabama.
(27:41):
And so Paige Beckers will probably never be quite as
popular because of her route and because Caitlan Clark also
has a unique game where she's shooting from thirty eight feet.
Caitlin Clark's more of a comet. But if you're talking
about who's the better player, there's an argument Page Beckers
will be the better player. And I'll say it again,
(28:01):
it is it's hard to explain popularity. Big guys like
Shaq and Yannis have never sold shoes. Jokic can't sell
shoes right like some guys can sell them.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I don't know, I mean, I look at it.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Nick Wright stopped by yesterday talking about Caitlin Clark and
her effect around the NBA.
Speaker 10 (28:22):
I would encourage people who are big time pre Caitlin
Clark WNBA fans or women's basketball fans to embrace this
rather than pushback against it. Do you know who the
biggest beneficiaries of Tiger Woods were other golfers. I think,
(28:42):
you know, one of the biggest winners from Caitlan Clark
is going to be Asia Wilson, who is still the
best player in the sport. I think Paige Becker's who
it could be a real rivalry with Caitlin.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Clark over the next decade. She's a winner from this.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, it's I mean, if you look at the history
of superstars and sports, they almost always have they're kind
of the same in age like Messi and Ronaldo, Peyton,
Manning and Brady Mahomes and Josh Allen, Magic and Bird.
I mean, you know, I don't know there are exact ages,
(29:18):
but I you know, I grew up in the you know,
the Aulian Fraser, Sugar, Ray Leonard and Hagler is you
generally need a conflict. It doesn't matter if one's a villain,
you just it didn't matter if Magic or Bird were
more popular, they were both popular and both had very
parochial tribal followings Lakers and Celtics. So if you look
through five WNBA games, Paige Beckers is very close to
(29:39):
Caitlin Clark. Now, Caitlin's scoring more, but again, she's been
in the league. And it's very hard at any level
to go from college to professional in your first five games.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I don't care who you are, but Paige Beckers is
in the sixth grade.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
There's a legendary picture of her in the sixth grade
where she was the best sixth grader in the country.
There's an argument she is the better basketball talent, and
I think it's very possible.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, there's the pen that's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I think it's very very possible that we've got a
Brady Manning thing here or a Michelson Tiger thing here.
In tennis, man men's tennis, you had three. You had Nadal,
Feedder and Djokovic, so that that was rare when you
had three greatest players probably of all time. Feeder I
think is a little older, but all playing, all rivals,
(30:25):
all kind of got along. But I think it and
let's not make it more than it is, like, well,
why are they the why are they the two most
popular players?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
They're new?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Who can explain popularity? It's it's impossible to explain. It's
like the Rock didn't go to Juilliard School of Acting.
He demands the biggest paycheck in Hollywood. He's a pro wrestler.
Arnold was the governor of California. I can't explain it.
(30:59):
You would have never guest Arnold Schwarzenegger as an action star.
You would have laughed if I suggested, yes, he will
be as a moderate to a conservative, the governor of California.
Sometimes it can be hard to understand. He's got a
lot of alpha. He smokes a lot of cigars. He
maybe the governor of California. Who can explain it. It's
(31:22):
like I tell my kids, like, don't wake up seeking happiness.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It's a rainbow.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You could be happy one minute, sad the next.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Wake up with a purpose.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
You'll find happiness or happiness will find you being popular.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I can't explain it. There are politicians I love.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
They can't win elections or don't or lose elections regularly.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I can't explain it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But I do think Paige Becker's and Caitlin Clark, I
think it's very possible. In two years, they're the two
most popular players in the WNBA and not necessarily the
two best. Asia Wilson is a better player right now
for the Las Vegas Eys.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 11 (32:03):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
of course the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world.
Speaker 11 (32:22):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 11 (32:36):
We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up, as they say.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio
maybe the most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 11 (32:45):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And if you miss any of the live show, just
search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course on social media that's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well. Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since nineteen
ninety three, and we are watching an Indiana team fly
through Milwaukee Cleveland, the Knicks, and Rachel's now joining us live.
Rachel I've said, I don't think this is an anti
Knicks series. I think what we're watching is an ascending
superstar who put up a line last night that only
(33:23):
Oscar Roberts and his rival. I think we're watching the
next great NBA player. And because he's not vertical or
doesn't drop forty two, we're not quite sure what to
do with it.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
But it's a lot of magic.
Speaker 12 (33:35):
Johnson to me, Yeah, Look, he has so much fun
to watch, right first of all, and he's the kind
of guy that if your team wasn't playing against him,
you'd want Tyrese Haliburton on your team, he.
Speaker 8 (33:44):
Plays the right way.
Speaker 12 (33:45):
Obviously, that stat line he put up last night to
be able to do thirty fifteen ten no turnovers, I mean,
it really is just absolutely crazy what he was able
to do. Plus he's got the bravado, right, he's got
the swag, He's got everything you want if you are
a fan of basketball, and you're right, he makes the
right plays, he does it the right way. He's not
dropping forty or fifty every night. But if you like
(34:07):
the game, you like the way Tyres Haliburton plays ball.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
You know, one of the things that the advantage to
losing a series is that you know your deficiencies.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Okay, we don't do this well.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And the Knicks front office has been really patient in
this rebuild, and I don't think they need a ton,
but it's pretty clear that Kat and Brunson, you know,
many of Kat's best moments and when Brunson's not on
the floor, because I think Brunson plays better with a
catch and shoot guy like Kevin Durant. So my take
(34:42):
is it's nothing wrong with Cat and Brunson, but we
do have a minus twenty four when they're on the
court together, and they're not great defensively, do you think
the KD thing, which it feels like he checks boxes.
I get length, I get experience, I get catch and shoot.
What do you make of the just a suggestion.
Speaker 12 (34:59):
Of that, I mean, look, I assume then you mean
you're swapping him out for Karl Anthony Towns, And I'm
not sure if the Knicks are going to want to
do that. Just a you're into the Cat experiment, I
think you hit it on the head when you talked
about the plus minus. The issue to me of Cat
and Brunson on the floor together is not so much offensively,
it's defensively. You've got two targets out there. I when
you get to this level of the playoffs, when you
(35:20):
get to the final four, this elite level of basketball
and shot making, you cannot have two targets out there
at the same time. And that is the biggest lesson.
I think the Knicks are going to learn from this
as they go into the off season. I would expect
them to pursue guys who maybe aren't his big fancy names,
but like a Walker Kessler from Utah, somebody who can
give them a little bit more of that presence without
(35:42):
having to tear up the team they have because they
like this team, and they should like this team. This
team got to the conference finals for the first time
in that city in twenty five years. I would not
make huge changes, but I would clean up around the edges,
and that is one of the biggest places to me
to clean up.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
So I listen in case he's gonna win this series.
I don't think there's any question. I said this yesterday.
We forget that Aunt is twenty three years old and
SGA is twenty six, and you can see it. It's
like seeing Mahomes as a rookie and Mahomes in year five.
He's way better pre snap he sees the field, I
don't think. I think sometimes Aunt can be a little collaborative.
(36:20):
I think he should be a bit more aggressive. But
what is your sort of take in what you're hearing
about this series where he feels like, you know, not
in SGA's league.
Speaker 12 (36:29):
Well, look, you nailed it. He's got two or three
more years before he is where SAJO goes Gilders Alexander,
I should just say SGA too, right, I'm going to
say that he's got two years before he's where SGA
is as well, and we see it, and I think
that he's going to learn this offseason and work on
things like moving without the ball right, more catch and shoot. Yes,
(36:49):
you do have to be more aggressive to your point,
even when the defense is smothering you and playing the
anyone but you game. I think we are seeing Anthony
Edwards develop, and the reason we are so about him
is that he has the talent, he has the drive,
he has all of the moves in his bag, and
he obviously has the personality to be a huge superstar
in this league. In our excitement about that, we can't
(37:12):
forget that he is not yet where we are projecting
him to be. The reason we're excited is because he's
not there yet, because we know he can do more
than this. So let's let him do it before we
declare a kid who's twenty three years old and has
been in the Western Conference finals now for two consecutive
seasons of failure in some way, which is what you're
starting to hear around the sort of blogosphere, And I
(37:32):
just don't get it. This kid has delivered everything you
could ask for, and I promise you he will get better.
I promise you he is going to continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
So I want to go.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I want to segue back to the Pacers and the Knicks,
because listen, the Pacers are eleven to zero in every
playoff game, not game three, meaning they go into Milwaukee
win two, lose game three, they go into Cleveland, win two,
lose game three.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Same with New York.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
So to me, game three, when you're up to all
you've stolen two road games, it's.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Foot off the gas.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Like this team to me, in the most important games,
starting a series and ending it, they're undefeated. It's insane
what they're doing. And I look at outside of Miles Turner,
their cap sheet very clean, and you know, is Indiana
a team? I mean, I gotta tell you when I
(38:24):
watch Haliburton, he doesn't even lead the Pacers in usage rate,
Like totally attractive. If I'm a shooter to play with Halliburton,
Will they be active?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You believe in a trader free agency.
Speaker 12 (38:38):
Look, they've done a great job building that team around him,
so I think, yeah, they will continue to try to
do that. But what we're seeing with all of these
final four teams now is really smart front offices that
have built teams the right way. We killed the Knicks
for years right about all their bad free office front
free agency, in front office mooth. Leon Rose comes in,
They've built a very smart team. Conley in Minnesota one
(39:01):
of the best team builders out there. Sam Presty Oklahoma
City one Executive of the Year multiple times. These are
well built teams and organizations.
Speaker 8 (39:09):
And for all of the chatter that you and I
are going.
Speaker 12 (39:11):
To talk this summer about trades and free agency and
all of that stuff and the big names and who
goes where, it's the organizations who know how to build
a complete squad, a squad that can go ten deep
the way the Pacers can legitimately, not like fake ten deep.
You'll see that in Oklahoma City too. If these are
the two teams that get to the finals, these are
teams man, and I think, especially in an age with
(39:32):
you know, multiple aprons and salary caps and cbas, you
need a full complete team because you can't just build
on stars in the same way anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Finally, Austin Reeves agent came out and said, you better
stop talking about trading him for second tier centers. Obviously
the game playing you know is starting for but it
does lead it does lead me to believe that as
agents talking about it so he's come to terms with
they are considering moving him.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, what are the chances? Would you know?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
These days, the free agency feels more dead. Everybody gets traded,
they sign the max, then you move them. If Austin Reeves,
do you believe he'll be a Laker after the trade
deadline next year?
Speaker 12 (40:11):
After the trade deadline next year? Now, look, I think
they are going to have to probably give up Austin
Reeves to get what they need, which is an interior
defense presence profitably, someone who can rim run right the
way Derek Wively did with Luca when they were in Dallas.
And they also need more three and D wings, so
to get all of that stuff, I don't think that
Austin Reeves can stay in your asset Coffers, But I
(40:31):
don't know if it's going to happen this summer. We'll
have to see what Rob Polenka can do. There was
a lot of criticism sort of the Lakers and the
Lakers construction and the way the team was after that
first round series and the way they lost that series.
I don't think that's fair because when you get the
chance to make the Luca Danta trade, you make the
Luca Dants trade and then you figure it all out later. Well,
the figuring it all out later comes this summer. It
(40:52):
didn't come a few weeks ago. It didn't come at
the trade deadline, that was just about getting Luca. But
this summer they have got to figure it out and
they have to put players round him around Luca that
fit better, that fit around in aging Lebron and Austin
Reeves unfortunately as well, like to see as that organization
and they love him there. I do think you will
probably end up having to give him up to get
(41:12):
the other pieces you need, and you need him. You
can't waste this. You got Luca Donchez dropped in your lap.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, and you can have Jannis in the West as well.
Rachel Nichols as always great seeing your h Thanks thanks, Yeah,
you know it's we've done this before where we watch
like I watched the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I was a total sucker. I'm like, they're gonna reel
off four.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Like there are certain teams like when the Warriors won
with Andrew Wiggins beat the Celtics, You're like, that's the
last one. They're not gonna win another one. Love Jimmy Butler,
but they're not built to win a championship. But I
watched the Celtics with Tatum and I'm like, oh, they
got a couple of them, and then they don't, and
then all of a sudden they have a new owner
and they're up against the Cap, and you're like, yeah,
that this thing may not end as well as we think.
(41:54):
I watched Denver. I fell for it. I don't look
at okay See and think they're going to win six
because I think eventually Jannis is going to go to
Houston or San Antonio and block that or Golden State.
But I look at Indy and I'm like, yeah, I
could see Halliburton putting up Oscar robertson numbers.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Everybody's looking at OKC. But Boston's not going to be
as good next year.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
New York isn't clearly as good. Cleveland isn't good, Milwaukee
isn't good. How do we know that Indy, from the
much easier East isn't the Dynasty team. I'm watching them, guys,
they're eleven to oh to Milwaukee two, and oh to
Cleveland too, and oh to New York two, and oh
that's unheard of. That's not the way it works, and
Halliburton's putting up Oscar robertson numbers. We all believe like
(42:46):
Oklahoma City's going to win seven. What if Wenby goes
to San Antonio or Houston or Golden State, well, then
Oklahoma City. It's just going to be really really good teams,
very good teams, each getting a shot at it. Like Denver,
very good Deep Minnesota. I can see him all winning
one in the East. I could see any ruling it
(43:08):
for a while. That's how good Halliburton is. Our three
Bruce Feldman stops By start
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Hour two.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Indiana Pacers have taken control of the series. Indiana's played
fourteen playoff kids. They're oz to three in game threes
when they lead to oh. When they've taken control of
the series, winning on the road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland,
at New York, they go into the other team's place,
(00:51):
steal both games. They come home foot on the gas.
Let's off a little, and they've lost one game in
each series. Game three, that's it. Otherwise they were eleven
and zero in the urgency games games one and two, four, five, six.
They're eleven and zer and Halliburton's statline last night maybe
(01:12):
the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life.
Thirty two, fifteen, ten and no turnovers. That is beyond
hyper efficiency. That is insane. That'd be like an NFL quit.
That's what Jayden Daniels did last year, but he would
go like thirty of thirty four with no turnovers. What
(01:32):
it's just, it's against the defensive coach and a defensive team.
And the other thing is and you saw this with
Magic Johnson. You see this with a truly great point guards.
You see this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul
was in LA, like Blake Griffin was like is he
a top three or four player in the league? And
DeAndre Jordan was nothing but buckets? And then Chris Paul
leaves those two players and they're not the same players.
(01:55):
You see all the holes in their game. I like
Pascal Siakam. He looks all NBA first team playing with
Aliburton thirty two, fifteen ten and no turnovers.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Here's Ali after.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I feel like we were making up stats at at
some point to make me look better. I was just
trying to be aggressive man, just trying to play my best,
you know. I feel like I let the team down
in Game three, felt like I could have been so
much better.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So I feel like I responded the right way today.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series
was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of
the third quarter in Game three and the start of
the fourth and they lost their rhythm. And this is
a rhythm team, and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton.
And then he came back in he got him back
on track, but it just it felt like they lost
their mojo. So like every time he goes to the bench,
(02:46):
if Brunson goes to the bench, Kat can score more.
The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off
the floor. It's like it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay,
all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is
all time specish. I love watching him play, and I
think it's a great personality with that. Greg Olsen joining
us live fourteen years in the NFL, Fox Sports Analyst,
(03:08):
great great broadcaster. By the way, tight End University is
back it's fifth year in Nashville in June twenty three
to the twenty second.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I want to ask about that because part of what you.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Do, which I think is the most underdiscussed part of
your sport, is film study. And Caleb Williams was recently
quoted talking about the Bears, a team you played for,
and loved playing for. He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone,
and I don't you know, I'm not in those rooms.
When you hear that he watched film alone, what was
(03:42):
your interpretation of that.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
How's that land for you?
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just it's
hard for me to believe that that was the case.
And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been
in three different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple quarterbacks.
I've never heard of a guy not having the opportunity
to watch film with his position coach, let alone the quarterback,
(04:08):
not you know, between the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinator
someone there. It's hard for me to believe that the
organization would let their young rookie watch film by himself.
But with that being said, yeah, it is though an
element of the sport that there is a little bit
of a learning curve. I don't think most young guys
coming out of college unless you just happen to be
(04:29):
playing for, you know, the right coach, the right position, coach, coordinator,
whoever at the college level, to teach you the art
of film study. I think we just have a joke
like we're not in here watching movies. Right, There's a
lot of guys that put the game on play one
and they just go play one, play two, play three,
and they just go through the sequence of a game.
You know, yes, you're watching film, are you really getting
(04:52):
the tendencies and really know what you're looking at to study?
My experience is most guys have to learn that. Most
guys have to learn that over the career. How I
watched film in my fourteenth year was wildly different than
how I watched it my first and second year. And
I think it's up to the organization.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
It's up to the.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
Coach, especially at the quarterback position, where there is no
greater responsibility than understanding not only everything of what your
team's doing, but of course what the opposing team is
doing defensively. So I can't imagine Ben Johnson's gonna let
that go on at all. So I think for Caleb
Williams and his development, the right guy now is in
control in Chicago, both over the team and then obviously
(05:32):
offensively with what Ben Johnson can do. But yeah, when
I read that report, I kind of did a ooh,
like true not true, scales of truth whatever. There's always
probably two sides to every story, but just the fact
that that was even suggested is not a great is
not a great reflection of the organization for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But by the way, did you and Cam, for instance,
film study.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Would you sit.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Down with Cam and go, Dude, this guy, this guy.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
In the flaps we like? Is that a real thing?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Oh? Absolutely? So we had a great routine. So it
was actually kind of fun.
Speaker 6 (06:07):
So most of the meetings from when we got there
in the morning, we're all controlled by the coaches. It
was small group meetings, offensive install then we'd have practice,
then we'd have post practice review where we'd watch the
practice film. So there was opportunities to you know, hey, coach,
take a second, Cam, here's why I ran this flat.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Here's why.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
And you're watching practice film or you're watching and the
opportunity to go, But there's thirty five guys in the room,
it's not really the opportunity for the two of you
to have your own conversation. But then at the end
of the day when everything officially with the coaches ended,
the tight end and the quarterback room in Carolina.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
We're right next to each other.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
We literally shared a wall, so he'd be in his
room with some of the quarterbacks and I'd be doing
sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of
the day, just for my own prep and notes and whatnot,
and I knew he was right next door, so I
would pop over and be like, hey, I need you
to come take a look at this, and say, hey,
look at the way this safety's hips. Are you okay
if I take this a couple of yards deeper? Am
I going to throw off your timing? And most of
(07:03):
the time Cam was just like, get open, I'm good.
But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't hold it
that long, or it messes up with my timing of
my footwork, or I don't like the way your body
language looks on there because you kind of fooled me.
I wasn't sure when you were going to come out
of your break. I need less at the top. So
like that, dialogue in meetings on the field was NonStop.
(07:25):
And when you can play with one guy for as
long as we did over time, I knew his answer
before I even had to ask him, and vice versa,
because we had talked through so many scenarios over so
many days, you know, for those nine years together.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So Cam was a mover. Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward
is a mover like. I like Cam a lot, and
I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the
audience when you do have Caleb Williams and he can
add lib Now, I think the Bears online is better.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
He won't have to do it as much.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
But some of these guys, like Cam, cam Warden Caleb,
they're just naturally gifted. It's like if you have a
great voice in the shower, like that's just the reality
of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does
it make it harder for tight ends and does it
make it harder in film studies so much as that.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Libya, it's a great question. So I think what we're
seeing right now in the NFL is you can't play.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
I should say with uncertainty.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
The vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if
you don't have some level of improv right, some level
of playing off script, off platform. All the words, the
buzzwords that get thrown around, but the ability to buy time,
escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback
and not always just rely on being a runner, stay
(08:41):
active as a passer. I mean, now you also can't
only playoff script.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
You can't only play improv quarterback. At the NFL. There's
no timing, there's no rhythm.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
The tackles don't know your depth of your drop, The
guards don't know the depth of the pocket. Am I
blocking for you to be at five and a half yards?
Or are you're going to be outside the hash marks
running with your life? If I'm a quarterback, if I'm
a wide receiver or a tight end, I need to
know at the top of my break when I get
my head around, am I looking to find you behind
the center at seven yards? Or is there a chance
(09:10):
that you've already broken contained and you're outside the pocket
and now I need to get into scramble drilled. So
there is a balance to it all. You can't just
stand in one spot and be a statue in today's NFL.
And you also can't just play recess football running around.
It's not sustainable. So I think that the blend of
don't take what's special out of these guys, don't take
(09:32):
it out of their game. If you have the ability
to move and improvise, encourage them to do it, but
just give them boundaries, give them parameters of saying, Okay,
I need you to hit your fifth step of your
drop and it's a progression pass, or it's a half
field read or whatever the play calls for. After you've
exhausted all of that. If the opportunity there is to
extend and create plays outside the rhythm of the game,
(09:55):
we're never going to take you away. But it can't
be hit your back foot and run around because we
can't support you doing that every single play from a
protection and a route concept. So there is a little
give and take, and I think that's something that Ben
Johnson has proven. He's coached multiple different types of quarterbacks.
He had a guy in golf who really was stationary
(10:17):
in rhythm, in timing, get the ball out of his hand.
He will have a little bit of a different flavor
for a guy like Caleb where he does get that
rhythm progression passer in the offense because you need it,
but then also encourage him to use his athleticism because
it is very challenging for defenses to play off script
and defend that long.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Before I get to the tight end, you the tush push.
You know, as a guy that was a willing blocker,
My guess was you like it. Do you like the
tush push?
Speaker 5 (10:49):
I do.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
I think it would be an extremely unfair and wrong
to Philadelphia, who has really some teams have done it
here and there, no one has even come remotely close
to doing it as efficiently as often, and use it
as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy, from how
they manage third downs knowing they got a yard and
(11:10):
a half in their back pocket, how they call first
and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down
in their back pocket, goal to go situations like it
is a not just a play, it is really a
centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built
with that offense. In Jalen hurt So, I think to
remove that from a team who has found a play
that they're uniquely good at, just because the rest of
(11:33):
the league is tired of trying to find ways to
defend it, I don't agree with. My gut tells me
they are going to eventually ban it. I think it
came so close this year at the owners meeting. Typically
those things don't come back. They typically continue to move
forward and getting the other side to flip. I hope
I'm wrong, because I think Philly has earned the right
(11:53):
to use that in their offense.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I don't think the lineman loved doing it.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
I don't think they love being at the bottom of
the pile on you know, seven times a game, five
times a game.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
But when you're winning Super Bowls and you.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Tell me I got to mush a guy out of
there and get my back right, I'll do that.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
I'll do that to win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
So I'll be curious to see how it plays out.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Finally, I think, you know, people were complaining a couple
of years ago about you know, running backs don't make
any money.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It's unfair.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And my take has been, well, tight ends have been
under paid my entire life. They have to block the
best athlete on defense, and they have to catch, they
have to do most of the dirty work, and then
they're one of the last positions. I guess this has
changed that you can really take a shot at as
a defensive player. So when you have your Nashville tight
(12:43):
end University and you have all these young guys in
what is something you preach to young tight ends?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
A high school tight end? It's not all.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Catching, Like, is there something that is do you deliver
a message a harsh message to all these young tight
ends that I wouldn't think about.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Yeah, and it's actually a very simple message. And you know,
we get into route running and we got Kelsey given,
you know, really high level coverage recognition and how to
use leverage and breaking and.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Finding space and a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
I kind of look and I laugh, and I'm like, Kelsey, like,
not everyone can do what you're talking about right now.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Because it's super advanced.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
And him and Mahomes and then you got Kittle talking
run game and footwork and hand placement and fight and
you know, these guys are just so unique. But obviously
they have a lot of experience and a lot of
understanding of the position. But the message that we try
to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver
to all of our guys to your point, is the
best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at
(13:42):
a higher level, is to be able to be trusted
to be on the field on every snap. And that's
going to be your best case for production, catches, yards, opportunities,
how much you get paid, the impact on the offense,
all of it. If you could be the best pass
catching tight end in football, or the best run blocking
tight end in football. But if I can only use that,
(14:04):
I can only use you in package of the offense.
At times where those skill sets are warranted. You still
are going to play in the NFL. You are still
going to be able to find a roster spot because
those skills have value. But if you want to be
a legit guy, you want to catch eighty balls, you
want to have a thousand yards. The only reason I
ever caught a thousand yards Colin was because I knew.
(14:26):
I went into every game and there was like four
to six real routes downfield twenty plus yards that were
designed for me. But of that four to six, I
needed the right protection, the right play call, did the
play ever get called in the first place, against the
right coverage?
Speaker 5 (14:43):
And then did I catch it? Was the throw.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
There's so many factors of those four to six. If
I got two or three of those, that was a
great day. But now you got three catches for fifty
five yards. But now I caught a flat route, I
caught a first and second down checkdown because I'm on
the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short
yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you
(15:05):
know I'd finished with seven for ninety and it wasn't
the flashy play. So if I'm only on the field
for the flashy plays, I never catch the easy ones.
And if I'm only good enough to be on the
field in goal line and short yardage because I'm a blocker,
I don't catch a third and eight dig across the
middle for twenty five. So being on the field and
providing value to your team no matter that down and distance,
(15:28):
you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are
they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play,
even if I'm not the best at anything, my ability
to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production,
all of it go up.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
So that's our.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Message to them, be good enough at everything, and it's
a much easier road.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Great stuff, great broadcaster, Fox Sports. It's tight end you.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's in Nashville, the twenty third to the twenty six,
a great American city in Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Good seeing you, my man.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Good seeing you man. Have a great summer.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, see jmack.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
If you did more than just jack up threes, if
you could defend a little, if you could occasionally screen,
like Greg Olsen talked about you could be on the
floor in key spots, not just jacking up threes when
your team's down do.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
I know you like to take jabs at my hoops game,
but I'll just say I've signed up for the most
competitive hoops league I've ever joined. There's a large money
to the winner in this league this summer. My wife
doesn't even know about it. I'm just telling you right now.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, because money is a real issue for you. You're
not compensated.
Speaker 8 (16:31):
Well, listen, you know everybody can use a little raise
every now and then.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Mister Cowery, you're ridiculous, all right. I want to thank
Greg Olsen for stopping by. It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Tyrese Halibert, I know it's hard to say superstar in
this league if you're not jumping over people or you're
not thirty two a game, but he feels like an
emerging superstar to me.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Here's j Mack with the news.
Speaker 7 (17:17):
No, no turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
This is the Herd Line News.
Speaker 7 (17:22):
So you know I picked the Buffalo Bills, Colin to
get to the Super Bowl and win it. Well, some
bad news already, New edge rusher Joey Bosa is sidelined
to start OTAs and worse yet, James Cook is a
no show. He's been asking for a new contract entering
the final year of his rookie deal. This isn't great, Okay.
Bosa already hurt Chargers fans. That's familiar sounds to their ears,
(17:46):
as they've seen him always injured.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
He has a calf injury. Colin.
Speaker 7 (17:50):
They said Bosa is expected to miss offseason work until
the summer.
Speaker 5 (17:55):
What is that?
Speaker 7 (17:56):
July and Cook was a stud second most t these
in the league ty with Derrick Henry. Not a great
start to odas for the bubble of BIS.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I have no fears.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Running back needs the least practice of any position in football.
Offensive line usually needs the most practice along with quarterback,
and pass rusher is another position. If you're in shape,
you'll be able to rush the passer. It's not like
Joey Bosa is going to forget how to rush the passer.
I actually think it's one of the better pickups of
(18:26):
the year. Mosa, Yeah, I mean he can be banged up. Listen,
the Chargers didn't want to pay Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa.
They just they couldn't pay both because of what they're
paying Herbert and they're going to have to pay their
left tackle. So there were just there were limitations on
you know, they had to move off at one point
Mike Williams and Keenan Allen And so they're gonna pay
(18:47):
Khalil Mack, who's been more available. Joey Bosa is going
to go in there and have double digit sacks for
the Bills. Oh what Remember they also lead in fourteen
to fifteen of their games. They'll lead in the fourth quarter,
meaning the opponent's passing, so he's going to get This
is not a team that's gonna be Let's be honest,
(19:08):
this is not a team it's.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Gonna be trailing late.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
They're favored in every single game, including the Eagles game.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I learned this year's ago from Bill Pollian when they
drafted Peyton Manning. His takeaway was, we're gonna be leading
most of our games. Let's go draft pass rushers. And that's,
by the way, what Bill Belichick. We're gonna be leading
with Brady. They now they always didn't have sack leaders,
but they always led or were near the top and
hurried and rushes. So once you get the great quarterback.
(19:39):
By the way, what are the Chiefs pay on defense?
They let a lot of people go. They don't let
Chris Jones go because they're going to lead games. So
Joey Bosa is a must for this team. He's gonna
end up with eleven or twelve sacks.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Know what we're gonna need this summer.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
We need Ryan and Jay have a board next to
you with our bets, because that is insane. You think
both is I have double digit tech. I don't even
think he plays double digit games this season. Got This
guy is always a walking injury. Honestly, listen, he'll be
not I would just say put him in bubble wrap
and unleash him in January, just save him for the playoffs. Honestly,
(20:13):
Like that's crazy. I do want to just repeat. The
Bills are winning the Super Bow, all right. Next story,
Colin is my mix man.
Speaker 8 (20:20):
This is tough. It's just a difficult. It's a difficult
day for men. Brunson and Company could not get it done.
Josh Hart was freaking terrible. I don't know, I don't
know what to do.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
Let's just hear what Cat has to say after the
Pacers took.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
A three to one lead in the series.
Speaker 9 (20:36):
We've been a team that has kind of found a
way to do the impossible. It always seemed impossible. You know,
we just keep fighting. So it's gonna be a testament
to our whole playoff runt. You know, now we have
to be in one of the biggest fights of our lives.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well it's been listen, it's been fun.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But the Pacers are eleven to zero in playoff games
that aren't Game three. And like, by the way they
took a lead last night, I felt like last night
they controlled the game. They had a lead early, they
had a laid in the fourth quarter, I felt.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Like and a lot of it was the Knicks they
had and they had turnovers.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I mean, if you go look at the turnovers, they
almost had twice as many turnovers as Indiana, So a
lot of.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
It was misfiring by the Knicks.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
But I felt last night when I watched that game,
I felt like Indiana was in control of it most
of it.
Speaker 7 (21:30):
No, they definitely were. I don't think the Knicks led
in the second half. I'm you know this pains me
to say even more. I want a competitive NBA Finals, right,
Who do you think matches up better with the OKAC thunder.
Speaker 8 (21:45):
It's not the Knicks, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, I don't think anybody matches up perfectly with Oka.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
See.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I think Indiana, because of Halliburton and their pace, they
can run with anybody. They're not as good defensively as OKC.
But generally when you get to the NBA Finals, remember
Oklahoma City would go in as a big favorite. The
pressure would be on Oklahoma City, so that is something.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And remember they're big as Chet Holmgren.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I get Miles Turner and Pascal Sayakham, I get two
veteran Biggs.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
They're big as young Chet Holmgren. So I feel like
I have a big advantage.
Speaker 7 (22:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
SGA is a better score than Halliburton, but Halliburton plays
with great much better pace, much better full court. And
so I mean I a lot of people don't think
it's a great matchup.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I think Indiana matches up.
Speaker 7 (22:40):
With everybody and matches up they can match up really well.
Nie Smith, you see embodying Brunson by the way the
other things. The Pacers are young, Colin. The oldest guys
on their roster TJ. McConnell at thirty three and Siakam
at thirty one.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
And if you look at.
Speaker 7 (22:54):
Oka see their oldest guy, Caruso thirty one.
Speaker 8 (22:58):
This is a young old Sudden. It's a young finals.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
And I know it's not like the sexiest matchup, but
I do think the Pacers can push them.
Speaker 8 (23:06):
I'm not seeing anything from the Knicks that legs me in.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
The Thunder's identity is they force a lot of turnovers
and the Pacers don't commit turnovers.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Haliburton so ready.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
Haliburton has six turnovers in four games against the Knicks.
Speaker 8 (23:20):
Six and four game. That's like playing forty minutes a night.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
That's crazy.
Speaker 8 (23:24):
Halliburton has been sensation. Final story.
Speaker 7 (23:26):
Colin is oh Aaron Rodgers. The rumors continue about him
in Pittsburgh. Well, let's let's talk about the current starter
right now, and that's Mason Rudolph. You know, this guy's
been around the league for a minute. Bounced over the
Titans last year, and he was asked about how it
felt to be back in the black and yellow.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
It's great.
Speaker 10 (23:46):
I I've been a part where you're getting you jump
on the living train late in the spring, and then
you're also here from the jumps.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
So I learned that adapt to both. But it's obviously
good to be one.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well, you know what he's there's there's a lot worse
jobs in the NFL than being mostly a career back
up with twenty starts in your career. He's had, he's
had a really nice and I remember when he played
at Oklahoma State. He's hung around. He's a good guy
in the room. I mean, what does it tell you
that Pittsburgh brought him back.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
He's a good guy. People.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
When you start bringing guys back, they're good in the room.
That's why Chase Daniel, that's why he lasted forever. Guys
want Josh mcnow with people want him, They want him
in the room.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
Yeah, is that is that why I'm still here? You
just want me to.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I wouldn't say that's your strength. We're keeping you around.
There's budget concerns, so we'll just keep you around for Oh.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Wow, okay, right back here.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
By J mcklannews.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd line.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I think this is interesting there's obviously there's a lot
of pushback on Caitlin Clark walking into.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
The w NBA and easily being their.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Most popular player. Popularity is hard to I've said this before.
Taylor Swift is brilliant and she's gifted, and she's amazing.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Do I think she has the best voice? No, No,
I don't, And I don't know music.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But you know, I've heard lots of singers who to
me there's some sort of visceral connection male and female.
But she's universally accepted as the musical artist star. There's
been a lot of action heroes. Is Tom Cruise the
best actor?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
He's the biggest star by a mile. Steph Curry's never
been the best player in the NBA. I think he's
more popular than Lebron Why, I don't know. So for
any of the WNBA players that want to make it
about anything other than it happens. John Daily was kind
(25:53):
of a mess personally, was wildly popular on the PGA tour.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
He was in Everyman.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Brett fall V, I would argue was more popular than
Tom Brady. Britty was a much more sus successful quarterback,
but people connected with Brett farv and sometimes maybe Tom
was austere and he was sort of the gold standard,
and you know he wasn't highly emotional and whatever. Who knows,
but I do think it's possible. Diana Tarassi knows her stuff.
(26:21):
She said that Dallas Wings rookie Page Becker's the Yukon
player who was drafted number one. She said, she'll become
the best player in the league for sure. So she's
been a phenom since she was in the sixth grade.
She's not the playmaker of Caitlin Clark, but she's a
better pure scorer eventually, better shooter, better well, just better
pure score.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
So it's very possible. And back to.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Back years, you're going to get the two most popular
WNBA players ever. Happened with Magic and Bird. In the NBA,
it just different players, big brands. It happened Listen Mahomes
got drafted in twenty seventeen, Josh Allen got drafted in
twenty eighteen, both in the AFC. I'd argue to most
(27:02):
popular players in the NFL. So Paige Becker was when
she was at Yukon, she was the women's college basketball
Player of the Year as a freshman. She was much
better than Caitlyn Clark, much earlier in life.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Much better.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Caitlyn Clark, however, played for a college program that we
didn't watch or care about until she arrived. Paige Becker
has Gino Oriema's brand, the Yukon women's basketball brand, the
greatest of all time. Gino's the best coach, that's the
biggest brand. It's like being a quarterback at Alabama with Saban.
The quarterback kind of gets lost behind Saban, the brand,
the defense, you know, just the factory that is Alabama.
(27:41):
And so Paige Beckers will probably never be quite as
popular because of her route and because Caitlan Clark also
has a unique game where she's shooting from thirty eight feet.
Caitlin Clark's more of a comet. But if you're talking
about who's the better player, there's an argument Page Beckers
will be the better player. And I'll say it again,
(28:01):
it is it's hard to explain popularity. Big guys like
Shaq and Yannis have never sold shoes. Jokic can't sell
shoes right like some guys can sell them.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I don't know, I mean, I look at it.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Nick Wright stopped by yesterday talking about Caitlin Clark and
her effect around the NBA.
Speaker 10 (28:22):
I would encourage people who are big time pre Caitlin
Clark WNBA fans or women's basketball fans to embrace this
rather than pushback against it. Do you know who the
biggest beneficiaries of Tiger Woods were other golfers. I think,
(28:42):
you know, one of the biggest winners from Caitlan Clark
is going to be Asia Wilson, who is still the
best player in the sport. I think Paige Becker's who
it could be a real rivalry with Caitlin.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Clark over the next decade. She's a winner from this.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, it's I mean, if you look at the history
of superstars and sports, they almost always have they're kind
of the same in age like Messi and Ronaldo, Peyton,
Manning and Brady Mahomes and Josh Allen, Magic and Bird.
I mean, you know, I don't know there are exact ages,
(29:18):
but I you know, I grew up in the you know,
the Aulian Fraser, Sugar, Ray Leonard and Hagler is you
generally need a conflict. It doesn't matter if one's a villain,
you just it didn't matter if Magic or Bird were
more popular, they were both popular and both had very
parochial tribal followings Lakers and Celtics. So if you look
through five WNBA games, Paige Beckers is very close to
(29:39):
Caitlin Clark. Now, Caitlin's scoring more, but again, she's been
in the league. And it's very hard at any level
to go from college to professional in your first five games.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I don't care who you are, but Paige Beckers is
in the sixth grade.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
There's a legendary picture of her in the sixth grade
where she was the best sixth grader in the country.
There's an argument she is the better basketball talent, and
I think it's very possible.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, there's the pen that's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I think it's very very possible that we've got a
Brady Manning thing here or a Michelson Tiger thing here.
In tennis, man men's tennis, you had three. You had Nadal,
Feedder and Djokovic, so that that was rare when you
had three greatest players probably of all time. Feeder I
think is a little older, but all playing, all rivals,
(30:25):
all kind of got along. But I think it and
let's not make it more than it is, like, well,
why are they the why are they the two most
popular players?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
They're new?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Who can explain popularity? It's it's impossible to explain. It's
like the Rock didn't go to Juilliard School of Acting.
He demands the biggest paycheck in Hollywood. He's a pro wrestler.
Arnold was the governor of California. I can't explain it.
(30:59):
You would have never guest Arnold Schwarzenegger as an action star.
You would have laughed if I suggested, yes, he will
be as a moderate to a conservative, the governor of California.
Sometimes it can be hard to understand. He's got a
lot of alpha. He smokes a lot of cigars. He
maybe the governor of California. Who can explain it. It's
(31:22):
like I tell my kids, like, don't wake up seeking happiness.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It's a rainbow.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You could be happy one minute, sad the next.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Wake up with a purpose.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
You'll find happiness or happiness will find you being popular.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I can't explain it. There are politicians I love.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
They can't win elections or don't or lose elections regularly.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I can't explain it.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But I do think Paige Becker's and Caitlin Clark, I
think it's very possible. In two years, they're the two
most popular players in the WNBA and not necessarily the
two best. Asia Wilson is a better player right now
for the Las Vegas Eys.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 11 (32:03):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
of course the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world.
Speaker 11 (32:22):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 11 (32:36):
We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up, as they say.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio
maybe the most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 11 (32:45):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
And if you miss any of the live show, just
search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and
of course on social media that's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well. Rachel Nichols has been covering the NBA since nineteen
ninety three, and we are watching an Indiana team fly
through Milwaukee Cleveland, the Knicks, and Rachel's now joining us live.
Rachel I've said, I don't think this is an anti
Knicks series. I think what we're watching is an ascending
superstar who put up a line last night that only
(33:23):
Oscar Roberts and his rival. I think we're watching the
next great NBA player. And because he's not vertical or
doesn't drop forty two, we're not quite sure what to
do with it.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
But it's a lot of magic.
Speaker 12 (33:35):
Johnson to me, Yeah, Look, he has so much fun
to watch, right first of all, and he's the kind
of guy that if your team wasn't playing against him,
you'd want Tyrese Haliburton on your team, he.
Speaker 8 (33:44):
Plays the right way.
Speaker 12 (33:45):
Obviously, that stat line he put up last night to
be able to do thirty fifteen ten no turnovers, I mean,
it really is just absolutely crazy what he was able
to do. Plus he's got the bravado, right, he's got
the swag, He's got everything you want if you are
a fan of basketball, and you're right, he makes the
right plays, he does it the right way. He's not
dropping forty or fifty every night. But if you like
(34:07):
the game, you like the way Tyres Haliburton plays ball.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
You know, one of the things that the advantage to
losing a series is that you know your deficiencies.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Okay, we don't do this well.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And the Knicks front office has been really patient in
this rebuild, and I don't think they need a ton,
but it's pretty clear that Kat and Brunson, you know,
many of Kat's best moments and when Brunson's not on
the floor, because I think Brunson plays better with a
catch and shoot guy like Kevin Durant. So my take
(34:42):
is it's nothing wrong with Cat and Brunson, but we
do have a minus twenty four when they're on the
court together, and they're not great defensively, do you think
the KD thing, which it feels like he checks boxes.
I get length, I get experience, I get catch and shoot.
What do you make of the just a suggestion.
Speaker 12 (34:59):
Of that, I mean, look, I assume then you mean
you're swapping him out for Karl Anthony Towns, And I'm
not sure if the Knicks are going to want to
do that. Just a you're into the Cat experiment, I
think you hit it on the head when you talked
about the plus minus. The issue to me of Cat
and Brunson on the floor together is not so much offensively,
it's defensively. You've got two targets out there. I when
you get to this level of the playoffs, when you
(35:20):
get to the final four, this elite level of basketball
and shot making, you cannot have two targets out there
at the same time. And that is the biggest lesson.
I think the Knicks are going to learn from this
as they go into the off season. I would expect
them to pursue guys who maybe aren't his big fancy names,
but like a Walker Kessler from Utah, somebody who can
give them a little bit more of that presence without
(35:42):
having to tear up the team they have because they
like this team, and they should like this team. This
team got to the conference finals for the first time
in that city in twenty five years. I would not
make huge changes, but I would clean up around the edges,
and that is one of the biggest places to me
to clean up.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
So I listen in case he's gonna win this series.
I don't think there's any question. I said this yesterday.
We forget that Aunt is twenty three years old and
SGA is twenty six, and you can see it. It's
like seeing Mahomes as a rookie and Mahomes in year five.
He's way better pre snap he sees the field, I
don't think. I think sometimes Aunt can be a little collaborative.
(36:20):
I think he should be a bit more aggressive. But
what is your sort of take in what you're hearing
about this series where he feels like, you know, not
in SGA's league.
Speaker 12 (36:29):
Well, look, you nailed it. He's got two or three
more years before he is where SAJO goes Gilders Alexander,
I should just say SGA too, right, I'm going to
say that he's got two years before he's where SGA
is as well, and we see it, and I think
that he's going to learn this offseason and work on
things like moving without the ball right, more catch and shoot. Yes,
(36:49):
you do have to be more aggressive to your point,
even when the defense is smothering you and playing the
anyone but you game. I think we are seeing Anthony
Edwards develop, and the reason we are so about him
is that he has the talent, he has the drive,
he has all of the moves in his bag, and
he obviously has the personality to be a huge superstar
in this league. In our excitement about that, we can't
(37:12):
forget that he is not yet where we are projecting
him to be. The reason we're excited is because he's
not there yet, because we know he can do more
than this. So let's let him do it before we
declare a kid who's twenty three years old and has
been in the Western Conference finals now for two consecutive
seasons of failure in some way, which is what you're
starting to hear around the sort of blogosphere, And I
(37:32):
just don't get it. This kid has delivered everything you
could ask for, and I promise you he will get better.
I promise you he is going to continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
So I want to go.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I want to segue back to the Pacers and the Knicks,
because listen, the Pacers are eleven to zero in every
playoff game, not game three, meaning they go into Milwaukee
win two, lose game three, they go into Cleveland, win two,
lose game three.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Same with New York.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
So to me, game three, when you're up to all
you've stolen two road games, it's.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Foot off the gas.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Like this team to me, in the most important games,
starting a series and ending it, they're undefeated. It's insane
what they're doing. And I look at outside of Miles Turner,
their cap sheet very clean, and you know, is Indiana
a team? I mean, I gotta tell you when I
(38:24):
watch Haliburton, he doesn't even lead the Pacers in usage rate,
Like totally attractive. If I'm a shooter to play with Halliburton,
Will they be active?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You believe in a trader free agency.
Speaker 12 (38:38):
Look, they've done a great job building that team around him,
so I think, yeah, they will continue to try to
do that. But what we're seeing with all of these
final four teams now is really smart front offices that
have built teams the right way. We killed the Knicks
for years right about all their bad free office front
free agency, in front office mooth. Leon Rose comes in,
They've built a very smart team. Conley in Minnesota one
(39:01):
of the best team builders out there. Sam Presty Oklahoma
City one Executive of the Year multiple times. These are
well built teams and organizations.
Speaker 8 (39:09):
And for all of the chatter that you and I
are going.
Speaker 12 (39:11):
To talk this summer about trades and free agency and
all of that stuff and the big names and who
goes where, it's the organizations who know how to build
a complete squad, a squad that can go ten deep
the way the Pacers can legitimately, not like fake ten deep.
You'll see that in Oklahoma City too. If these are
the two teams that get to the finals, these are
teams man, and I think, especially in an age with
(39:32):
you know, multiple aprons and salary caps and cbas, you
need a full complete team because you can't just build
on stars in the same way anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Finally, Austin Reeves agent came out and said, you better
stop talking about trading him for second tier centers. Obviously
the game playing you know is starting for but it
does lead it does lead me to believe that as
agents talking about it so he's come to terms with
they are considering moving him.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, what are the chances? Would you know?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
These days, the free agency feels more dead. Everybody gets traded,
they sign the max, then you move them. If Austin Reeves,
do you believe he'll be a Laker after the trade
deadline next year?
Speaker 12 (40:11):
After the trade deadline next year? Now, look, I think
they are going to have to probably give up Austin
Reeves to get what they need, which is an interior
defense presence profitably, someone who can rim run right the
way Derek Wively did with Luca when they were in Dallas.
And they also need more three and D wings, so
to get all of that stuff, I don't think that
Austin Reeves can stay in your asset Coffers, But I
(40:31):
don't know if it's going to happen this summer. We'll
have to see what Rob Polenka can do. There was
a lot of criticism sort of the Lakers and the
Lakers construction and the way the team was after that
first round series and the way they lost that series.
I don't think that's fair because when you get the
chance to make the Luca Danta trade, you make the
Luca Dants trade and then you figure it all out later. Well,
the figuring it all out later comes this summer. It
(40:52):
didn't come a few weeks ago. It didn't come at
the trade deadline, that was just about getting Luca. But
this summer they have got to figure it out and
they have to put players round him around Luca that
fit better, that fit around in aging Lebron and Austin
Reeves unfortunately as well, like to see as that organization
and they love him there. I do think you will
probably end up having to give him up to get
(41:12):
the other pieces you need, and you need him. You
can't waste this. You got Luca Donchez dropped in your lap.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, and you can have Jannis in the West as well.
Rachel Nichols as always great seeing your h Thanks thanks, Yeah,
you know it's we've done this before where we watch
like I watched the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I was a total sucker. I'm like, they're gonna reel
off four.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Like there are certain teams like when the Warriors won
with Andrew Wiggins beat the Celtics, You're like, that's the
last one. They're not gonna win another one. Love Jimmy Butler,
but they're not built to win a championship. But I
watched the Celtics with Tatum and I'm like, oh, they
got a couple of them, and then they don't, and
then all of a sudden they have a new owner
and they're up against the Cap, and you're like, yeah,
that this thing may not end as well as we think.
(41:54):
I watched Denver. I fell for it. I don't look
at okay See and think they're going to win six
because I think eventually Jannis is going to go to
Houston or San Antonio and block that or Golden State.
But I look at Indy and I'm like, yeah, I
could see Halliburton putting up Oscar robertson numbers.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Everybody's looking at OKC. But Boston's not going to be
as good next year.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
New York isn't clearly as good. Cleveland isn't good, Milwaukee
isn't good. How do we know that Indy, from the
much easier East isn't the Dynasty team. I'm watching them, guys,
they're eleven to oh to Milwaukee two, and oh to
Cleveland too, and oh to New York two, and oh
that's unheard of. That's not the way it works, and
Halliburton's putting up Oscar robertson numbers. We all believe like
(42:46):
Oklahoma City's going to win seven. What if Wenby goes
to San Antonio or Houston or Golden State, well, then
Oklahoma City. It's just going to be really really good teams,
very good teams, each getting a shot at it. Like Denver,
very good Deep Minnesota. I can see him all winning
one in the East. I could see any ruling it
(43:08):
for a while. That's how good Halliburton is. Our three
Bruce Feldman stops By start
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com